#Rend Resistance Shouldn't Exist

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

quaint narwhal
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I know a lot of people are going to disagree with this but rend resistance is something that doesn't need to exist, even on cunnings, much less fierces and resilients for several reasons. Also before I even start I will address thylos, all it needs is to have dual rending assault replaced with rending takedown or rending attack or maybe reduce the rend on each hit to 25% or 30% and it's no longer going to be super broken because of rend.

  1. Rend is NOT a negative effect

Unlike any other effect, including bleed, rend is just straight up damage dealt to an opponent with no extra effects added on outside of a few moves like defensive rending attack. You'll notice that if you tap on another creature you won't find "rend by x% for 1 turn" like you would for literally any other negative or positive effect, if you use lethal wound against a bleed immune creature you still do damage because it's a strike with an effect added on but if you use rending takedown on a rend immune creature you will do nothing because it's a basic damaging move, almost like using rampage on a damage immune creature. Rend clearly takes the place of damage in any move it's used, in defensive rending attack you don't deal damage alongside rend as if it were like bleed, you rend and shield instead so rend is just an alternative form of damage

  1. There's other ways to kill resilients

This is one of the worst arguments for giving something not even remotely cunning rend immunity because it's basically saying every rend specialized creature essentially deserves to be forgotten about and made worthless for no real reason. I also have to say in that case, there's other ways to reduce damage so let's have 75% distraction resistant thylos, distraction immune aeno, rexy with 67% distraction resistance because who cares about cunnings that don't dodge? Or why not give dracovenator, CG, and dilorach vulnerable immunity since resilients can just use shields and dodge removal to kill them?

calm siren
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I think now that they've added rend resistance it could stick around in a few Dino's (no more than 10) just because it's already a thing. However, nothing should get any higher than 50% because things like rend immunity are just terrible

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And as you said before it's just specialised damage resistance which, unless they add damage resistance as a type of armour, does not make sense

glad cliff
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Rend immunity is a thing that should not exist but there is no problem with the rend resistance.

When a Mortem use his first move wich deals 60% of max damage with buff and critical hit, that's an ouch especially if your creature can't defend itself

quaint narwhal
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It has to be under half health though and especially for mortem that usually means it will die first

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Mortem could definitely use 40% instead of 60% for the strike

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I'd say I'd tolerate at most 50% resistance on some cunnings with no more than 33% on hybrids of those rend resistant cunnings if they're mixed class

raw wind
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As a pure fierce, isn’t it Mortems job to tear through health? There isn’t anything wrong with rend, only the way they deal out Rend resistance

quaint narwhal
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Besides 75% rend resistance is essentially immunity since rend at that point does so little anything that can will choose to use other means

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I would say spinocera might need instant rend removed because it would be able to draw with rexy and kill thylaconyx

lament oriole
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Their entire resistance ideology is what I’d rework instead of overhauling Rend resistance, which if they did reworked it raids and cunnings would be excusable.

quaint narwhal
lament oriole
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Have classes stick to their immunities/resistances that counter their respective classes, we shouldn’t have stuff like Rend immune tanks, because that means only Alberto’s in rare only (not including any other omegas because it gets very complicated) are the only things capable of stopping them. This is exactly a similar problem just like the dot immune epic turtle was back in 1.0 era, and that’s what I would see as “limiting”.

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And I bet if they do make a distraction immune fierce, only Dodge will save you in that predicament and nothing else

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Which will just bring back the problematic memories of distraction immune 1.0 era Mammolania

quaint narwhal
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I thought you meant a total rework of the concept, it's definitely a good idea to not give creatures resistance to what's supposed to counter them

lament oriole
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And putting Rend immunity on a tank

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Or dot immunity

quaint narwhal
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Here's how I would do it
Fierce
Deceleration
Vulnerable
Some bleed and swap prevention
Cunning
Distraction
Crit reduction
Swap prevention
Some bleed
Resilient
Deceleration
Vulnerable
Distraction
Some armor reduction

Stun is class neutral

lament oriole
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E yes

glad cliff
quaint narwhal
glad cliff
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Dealing a great damage into a creature with high hp is not negative for the opponent?

quaint narwhal
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Ok so normal damage is a negative effect too

glad cliff
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Yes, kill the opponent creature is negative for it

quaint narwhal
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That's true but by negative effects I mean status effects that are bad for your opponent like reducing their attack or speed, or causing them to take extra damage, be unable to swap, or reduce their armor

glad cliff
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I get it, but rend is not a regular move

quaint narwhal
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How so?

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I guess it's most similar to instant bleed

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Rather than doing it at the end of the turn you do it right away

glad cliff
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Almost every class can have rend, if it has no armor piercing and shield breaking

quaint narwhal
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Rend is definitively fierce though

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Berserk doesn't count since it's self rend

glad cliff
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Okay, it's a fierce, but cunnings and resilients has their own weird move, like devastation or stronger distracting attacks

quaint narwhal
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That doesn't have anything to do with rend though

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Devastation is also not inherently resilient, it's just that the turtles are the main users of it

glad cliff
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And not every creature has rend too

quaint narwhal
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I know

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That doesn't really change anything

earnest patrol
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Rend immunity is like giving something 100% armour

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Rend resistance feels like it is haphazardly thrown onto new creatures just to pad out the resistances

raw wind
glad cliff
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But rend resistance is like armor or shield or even dodge. You can defend yourself with shield, armor, dodge or even rend resistance

quaint narwhal
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The problem is rend resistance isn't a defense like those

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They can be bypassed or removed while rend resistance is an inherent defense

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Imagine if refrenantem had passive dodge that could never be removed, of geminideus would always be shielded even against fierces, nothing would be able to kill it

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(I know affliction exists but that basically only effects vexus into thylaconyx combos)

glad cliff
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Armor is always there, just fierce can bypass them, cunnings and resilients are not likely

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And there is a rend attack wich cannot bypass armor or shield, like dracoceratops' swap-in attack

quaint narwhal
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You forget rend can be reduced by any form of protection aside from shields and armor for most

lament oriole
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Distraction and dodge

quaint narwhal
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Dracovenator has no need of rend resistance with constant distraction and dodge available to it

lament oriole
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That can reduce it pretty low, have Rend resistance and the Rend is only tickling. Have Rend immunity and that Rend is a feather

quaint narwhal
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That's what it's like for rend users

glad cliff
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Armor buff is more annoying, than rend resistance. Geminideus can have 100% armor, and can have 50% and 100% shield in the same time. It's more annoying, than rend resistance

raw wind
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That doesn’t take away from rend resistance being unnecessary. Just because there is something you think is worse doesn’t push rend down the list

glad cliff
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I don't use thylos but I use Andrewtops, most of the time I have more damage with his rampage than his rend, even if the enemy creature has no rend resistance. You can use other options to kill a creature that has rend resist, it's not that bad

quaint narwhal
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You're still just repeating "screw rend, who cares" as I said before there's other ways to block damage so give rexy distraction immunity

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Or if you really want to go crazy let's add damage resistance

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The whole point of this thread is how rend resistance makes rend worthless which your experience with andrew shows, also it's a 40% rend compared to a rampage on a pretty high damage creature so not even something like apato take more rend damage than a 3200 rampage

quaint narwhal
glad cliff
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Yes, but there is the thylos and the mortem. Restistance can save your creature. Dot and stun immunity is annoying too, but it is what it is

quaint narwhal
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Thylos and mortem are products of the resistance

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Thylos would never have gotten 80% on turn 1 if everything wasn't resistant to rend and to be honest by the time mortem got rend it was already pretty useless, you're really overestimating its strike

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Another essential point to my argument is that dot and stun immunity should exist(not on everything though) because they are negative effects while rend is not a negative effect and therefore no resistance to it should exist

lament oriole
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I’d say that stun immunity/resistance would be purposeful on something to make a specific action work to an extent

lament oriole
lament oriole
glad cliff
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Used to be there was no resistance, only just immunity or immune to something (stun or distraction) I never complained because something was immune to rend, I figured something out then. Many creatures are useless in the game, but you have choose that are more useful. If you don't like rend, then don't use it

lament oriole
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Wut

glad cliff
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Yes, used to be if a creature was immune, it was immune to everything, there were no exceptions. Indominus-rex was immune (stun, Dot, decrease, distraction, rend and no escape was nowhere in that time)

lament oriole
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No, immunes were still affected by Rend back then

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Everything else they were immune to

glad cliff
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Tryostronix was Immune and rend couldn't do a thing against him. Since the raid and resistance system rend got literally buffed

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Imagine if raid bosses would have no rend resistance, how easily you could kill them

lament oriole
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Not really

quaint narwhal
quaint narwhal
lament oriole
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You could still Rend a Tryo during 1.7 to 1.14

quaint narwhal
glad cliff
quaint narwhal
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It was added in 1.7 I believe

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Not sure when resistances got changed

lament oriole
quaint narwhal
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I know it was around then since indo gen 2 came out in 1.9 and by that point immunity to only 1 effect already existed so it wasn't all or nothing

lament oriole
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Yoshi, Magna, and Erlidom could also be affected by Rend, but because of their damaging debuffing effects, Rend did little damage to those immune bois

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This is coming from 1.0 era

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Not 2.0/3.0 era

quaint narwhal
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I know some people do but I personally don't like the idea of intentionally leaving some creatures as useless garbage because why have them at that point?

lament oriole
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Heck Geminititan from 1.9 to 1.14 only had one good counter and it was the Rending Grypolyth

quaint narwhal
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By now lythronax, purussaurus gen 2, purrolyth, and grypolyth could be deleted with 1 million coin compensation and boosts refunded and no one would care

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And there doesn't have to be some creatures on the bottom to uphold some kind of power structure, every rarity could have relative equality with really no drawbacks

glad cliff
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Or by now old creatures need a rework because of omegas and the new powerful attacks that does 2 or 3 thing in one time

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Like when raid came in

lament oriole
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Not with the resistances stuck on

glad cliff
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100% rend immunity is really powerful, I admit it, but really need a rework on the OGs

quaint narwhal
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There's really only 3 options here

  1. All rend resistance is removed outside of raid bosses
  2. Rend automatically comes with affliction
  3. Rend and all its users who aren't thylos are doomed to sit in the powercreep dumpster until the servers die
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And thylos will join them at some point, just not for a few more months

lament oriole
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It probably will, and it all takes a cunning to make that happen