[Tove] New Unit Megathread

[tired cradle]

I did the math

Ure the one spreading fake news

You know she needs to maintain 3 stacks for atk spd too right?

[marsh basin]

🤦‍♂️

[cobalt arch]

Should be ez if shes iron...

[tired cradle]

Austin doesnt understand maths

[marsh basin]

🤦

[tired cradle]

Whats ur fucking defense

[marsh basin]

so does the mirror thing make it so 3 stacks get refresh to 3 stacks for 10 seconds?

[tired cradle]

No

Likely not

[marsh basin]

lemme test with mast

[tired cradle]

Go try

[marsh basin]

[tired cradle]

Any last words?

[signal torrent]

even with 340% ammo + bastion, uptime of atk speed buff is only 84% (79% with bastion and 0 ammo OL)

[tired cradle]

[signal torrent]

usable

[marsh basin]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

kisenix is right

im wrong

we need to remake this

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1115188349754429455/1169278150509858877/ripbozo_rh.gif

but with 5% chance

[tired cradle]

It isnt half bad

[marsh basin]

@tired cradle wat did the other jp/kr server say

how mast mirror thing was worded

[signal torrent]

Assuming s1 lv10, bastion lv7, 15s full burst cycle

[tired cradle]

is this avg or simulated

if this is avg, it's wrong

Or maybe its not

[signal torrent]

[tired cradle]

Its hard to math this

And Resilience is better for consistency

Bastion is better for ups and downs

[signal torrent]

Im all for practical test

[tired cradle]

U can also use xrupee

To help maintain stacks

Because she gives reload speed

Because reloads drop rng from 4.6% to around ±7.5%

Faster reload helps attenutate the issue

[signal torrent]

simulated average

idk about other numbers but im quite sure proc count is correct

[deft blade]

Bruh you're going to awaken shift up powercreep phase and then you will make the same meme but with your wallet picture on it

[marsh basin]

[obsidian harness]

Bro gon have to take a week off for this run

[south obsidian]

[obsidian harness]

Just play on higher FPS bros

Ez activation with tove if that happens

120 FPS should help

[hearty silo]

Everybody malding over Tove before even getting to mald over gacha pulling Tove or malding over boss RNGs

[obsidian harness]

LOL WHAT

Wait wait watch this

[hearty silo]

Why is your blue icon fancier than mine

[obsidian harness]

Because I have the seraphim role

[hearty silo]

Oh

It’s a slightly different shade of teal

[obsidian harness]

It's basically for Maids+Mods

Anyways

[unique garden]

God she's so cute

I'm a bitch for characters like these

[south obsidian]

"you can put your trust in me"
Ass start shaking

[obsidian harness]

0:34, max stacks
0:39, loses stacks even when constantly shooting

This shit is actually BAD

[hearty silo]

Honestly

I don’t understand their design philosophy with buff stacks

Why must it toe the line of falling off? So short?

[unique garden]

It feels like ShiftUp themselves don't know how the current meta works tbh

[hearty silo]

It should just be 10 seconds and be every 12 shots it procs a stack

[unique garden]

Or they just ask ChatGPT to make some random kit and slap it on to a character

[south obsidian]

they're making units not powercreeping hard
i dont see anything wrong with it

[obsidian harness]

Should give us 2-3 seconds more

The 5s is too harsh with a reload inbetween

Or
Just get lucky bros

[unique garden]

Ah true this is understandable

Genshin is kinda on the same phase atm with 4 stars

[obsidian harness]

You thought critfishing was bad?

Time for stack fishing

[south obsidian]

not every new units has to be insanely strong or flawless

does Tove stack fall off randomly? yes
how randomly? 7% chance every 5 seconds at base ammo

its a low chance

[obsidian harness]

If every shots hits..?

[south obsidian]

yes

[obsidian harness]

Or do u just have to shoot

[south obsidian]

you likely have to shoot

i mean unit doesnt shoot if you point them at thin air anyways

[obsidian harness]

The chance happened in the showcase

[south obsidian]

yes

[obsidian harness]

It seems to me the chance is high enough to happen often

[south obsidian]

probability wise it's 7%

just trust the math

listen

i pulled RH from the free pull today

[obsidian harness]

Fuck probabilities

It either doesn't trigger or it does

50/50 in my books

[obsidian harness]

Oh
I have my final 10pull today

Imma do it now

[hearty silo]

I MCB’d RH day 1 with gold tickets, then realized maybe I kinda should’ve waited for free pulls

23 or so days later, I didn’t get RH from free pulls

RIP

[south obsidian]

just get core its fine

[obsidian harness]

No half of SSR mold for you

[hearty silo]

I’m happy and offended at the same time. Come on my RNG luck should be good..

[south obsidian]

just cope your pull like me

the lower your gem amount after pulling is, the higher the chance of getting

[unique garden]

My luck went downhill ever since I got most of the Nikkes

[obsidian harness]

Should I save a 10pull for tove

[unique garden]

When I was just starting out I kept getting SSRs per 10s lmao

[obsidian harness]

Or should I spend another 10pull on Rh
Got jackshit

[unique garden]

You get 10 pulls on Event anyways

[obsidian harness]

[unique garden]

Probably

[obsidian harness]

Fck it we ball

The monthly will gimme money

[hearty silo]

You have received the Blessing of the Whale buff

[obsidian harness]

I got jackshit again

[south obsidian]

[hearty silo]

https://tenor.com/view/ocean-whale-wow-sea-beach-gif-16098118

[obsidian harness]

Fuck rh banner on fucking god

230 pulls, 1 rh

[hearty silo]

I quit at 100 pulls 0 RH

I feel wise

[tired cradle]

Why the fuck are there 2 alice rabbity

[south obsidian]

[cobalt arch]

tove will be useless if boss jump alot?

[open sphinx]

she will be uselsess if we don't get a sg b2 with heal and cdr and a better b3 sg dps

[drowsy scroll]

b3 cdr

gonna unlock so many potential b1 and b2 who don't have cdr

[open sphinx]

20sec b3

imagine

[wild sorrel]

I think she will be useless

because SG sucks

[cobalt arch]

1 2 2 isnt that bad, we dont has enough good b3 for 5 team 1 1 3 yet right?

[wild sorrel]

I mean the first 3 teams are fixed somehow, so she competes for 4th or 5th team. Mostly 5th if you consider Snow Yulha is a thing

what do we have for the 5th?

2B, A2

not sure if Tove can put SG to be even on par, or better than 2B A2

[fresh hamlet]

Too much math in the morning

[drowsy scroll]

pull for that latex jiggle with AR

[hearty silo]

Easy fix. Expand UR to 10 teams.

(And add 4 times as many levels to clear)

I’m only half-joking

[obsidian harness]

If she needs to "hit"
Yes

If she needs to just shoot, no

[open sphinx]

agreed, expand ur and sr teams to 6

but before that add 4 more cdr units

[tired cradle]

Bro thot shes MG

[random rose]

Isabel Sakura Dolla gaming soon

[tired cradle]

No

U didnt include deadtime

[obsidian harness]

Is sakura just sitting there

[tired cradle]

SUMMARY OF TOVE RNG

• At base ammo, Tove has a 8.5% chance of not gaining a stack within any 5s. This assumes you use Resilience LV 7+ and performs 1 reload (length: 1s) every 4s window (in reality, it's 5, but 5 will only give one bonus window of 4.6%, the rest are still 8.5%).

• At unlimited ammo, Tove has a 4.6% chance of not gaining a stack within any 5s.

• To maximize Tove's buffs' uptime, you have to make your probability percent closer to its optimal 4.6% by giving her Max Ammo or Reload Speed buffs.

• Resilience distributes probability percentage almost equally (4.6% for no reloads; and up to 8.5% when Tove reloads). Meanwhile, Bastion may allow you to enjoy 4.6% longer than Resilience can until Tove reloads, dropping it to ±10% for that 5s window.

• In other words, Bastion reaches Optimal Chance more often than Resilience, but it has a steeper MIN (Minimum). Resilience hits MIN more often but is less severe.

• Resilience is almost always better than Bastion at base ammo because you will be hitting Bastion's steep MIN a lot.

• The graph with 1s reload + 4s uptime per 5s hypothetical average: #1176712613556658196 message, where x denotes number of triggers in a row and y is the probability.

• The graph for unlimited ammo: #1176712613556658196 message

• Tove has a stacking-up speed of 20/12 = 1.667s per stack on average. This value is independent of the "chance" above. Whenever stacks reset, Tove takes about ±5s to reach max stacks, but your mileage may vary due to binomial distribution. It is more likely to converge on 1.667s per stack, but it may not trigger for more than 5s, thus the debated RNG above.

• Tove's stacks need to be level 3, so 2 of those ramping triggers are excluded. They need to be refreshed after reaching stack 3. When reset happens, she goes through "ramping" phase again.

TOVE'S RNG CALCULATION v2

• At base ammo and without any cubes, Tove's uptime at Stack 3 is around 77%. The uptime at other stacks is 7% each. This means the average length of Stack 3 in each streak is 11 trigger duration (18.33s) out of 14 trigger duration (23.33s).
• At infinite ammo, Tove's uptime at Stack 3 is around 85%. The uptime at other stacks is 5% each. This means the average length of Stack 3 in each streak is 17 trigger durations (28.33s) out of 20 trigger durations (33.33s).
• If you notice, the base ammo variant doesn't have that bad of an uptime, but it does dip nearly twice as often as the infinite ammo one.
• This means RNG is stronger at lower base ammo but should be manageable without Max Ammo lines.

[south obsidian]

fair

[open sphinx]

the real gacha char, either you get 3 stacks or none

if she had cdr she would be much better ngl

[cobalt arch]

rerun to get max stack before every burst...

[opaque palm]

the cancer of this trailer...
Shift up: ok so she buffs SG
Advertisement team: so... we should p-
Shift upL YEPPERS, WE GON SLAP NO FUCKING SHOTGUN UNITS IN THE TEAM
Ad Team:

[obsidian harness]

Dat ass tho

[opaque palm]

at best, if they wanted to make proper advertisement for both Tove and her Squad & winter themed units... use Neve & XAnne instead of random signal and centi

cuz Neve is also SG to make it somewhat revelant...

[tired cradle]

Just get max ammo line

[slate ravine]

just be lucky

win the rng in each shot

[tired cradle]

You cant.

Its less than 0.1%.

You will almost be guaranteed to reset the stack.

[woeful solar]

12 ammo per second at 60fps. 60 ammo in 5s.
10 ammo per second at 30fps. 50 ammo in 5s

AR have a 720 bullets/frame attack speed. The game is capped to execute at 60fps I believe. I forgot the math for it but it ends up being 5 frames per bullet at 60fps, 3 frames per bullet at 30fps

with the way Unity does per-frame calculations

[tired cradle]

This is ofc assumed to be 60fps

Because with resil 7

It will be 5 times of 8.5 and 1 time of 4.6

But for the sake of simplicity

And the fact that people are bad at maths

Im rounding it DOWN to 8.5

[woeful solar]

Oh you're including reload time, taking into consideration average over time

My brain is wired to only think about PvP. I only think about the first 5s of a fight leading up to the burst and forget about reloading

[pallid ridge]

Skill priority? S2>burst>S1??

[obsidian harness]

Mf she ain't even out yet 😭

Pls wait

[exotic pulsar]

no

[tired cradle]

Burst > S2 > S1

[pallid ridge]

[obsidian harness]

Bro just knows the scaling

[tired cradle]

You dk if I have test server

Because if I do

Ill be bound by NDA

[sick torrent]

I'd like to sim Tove's S1 but I have two questions. Is the max buff stack 3 or 4? And does the buff stack reset to 0 if the 5 sec buff durations expires?

[obsidian harness]

3

Yes, it resets to 0

[lucid warren]

pull no pull mlb c7 angle?

https://tenor.com/view/pull-gacha-mobile-game-kermit-gif-8751144

[frail ridge]

But you need lvl 9 s1 for 5% activation chance

[cobalt arch]

it not 5% at all lvl?

[obsidian harness]

Fr?

Aww hell nah
.gg datamines are out

See
This is why we wait for scaling

[frail ridge]

Nope

Lvl 6 for 4%

[obsidian harness]

S1 > B > S2
I guess

[frail ridge]

Lvl 9 for 5%

[obsidian harness]

2% at base

[frail ridge]

[obsidian harness]

3% at lvl3

They're fckn trolling with this one

[cobalt arch]

skip, aint got mats for her

[tired cradle]

S1 (9) > B (10) > S2 (5/7/10)

[obsidian harness]

Why 5/7/10

[tired cradle]

Idk

Need Gatrix to check

[tired cradle]

Wtf WHERE IS ATK SPD FORMULA

[open sphinx]

[exotic pulsar]

Do it and tell us how it felt

[random rose]

what 10/10/10 RH do to a mf

[tired cradle]

FRAME CALCULATION OF TOVE

• Frames taken per shot:

Lv 2: 32 frames
Lv 3: 32 frames
Lv 4: 31 frames
5: 31 frames 
6: 30 frames
7: 30 frames 
8: 29 frames
9: 29 frames
10: 29 frames```
- The formula is: 
```(1÷((124.96%+1.92%×[LEVEL-1])×1.5))×60÷100```
- Gains are _mathematically_ present in Levels 2, 4, 6, and 8.

@obsidian harness see

I dont need MATHS my brain is MATHS

[obsidian harness]

Bruh got the luckiest guess ever

But yeah, good info

[tired cradle]

If you dk what this means

Lv 10 and lv 5 is 7.1% damage difference

[obsidian harness]

Add this as a

• point
  In the pinned message

And above the
Lvl1.. Lvl2..

Write "frames taken per shot"

Aite, thanks

[pallid ridge]

This is talking about her s2 right? Like it can be 5 or 7 or 10 up to us?

[opal flicker]

tove tc is cooking

[tired cradle]

Yes

Attack speed is also diluted

With Sugar, it may be different

I advise leaving it at 5.

But that means 7.1% of DPS loss.

[opal flicker]

so are they really pushing for full ol tove?

for max ammo

[lucid warren]

Wdym she is mlb angle 📐

[tired cradle]

TOVE SKILL PRIORITY

Skill 1: 9 (minimum)
Skill 2: 4/6/8
Burst: 10 (recommended)

[dark widget]

attack speed also has diminishing returns with itself as we stack more with sugar/tove

since theyre additive increases

i think?

[tired cradle]

Im sure they're additive

Thats why I said diminishing return

Level 5 sugar is most optimal for lowest investment, but it may not work well with level 5 Tove. Level 6 Tove might increase her damage by 2% for instance so

It's atk spd being wonky

Oops

@obsidian harness

[unreal hedge]

[opal flicker]

she is hungry for books

[tired cradle]

Nvm

Its right

I bamboozled myself again

2x

@obsidian harness I made a mistake

Rixed

[dark widget]

do u trust tove atkspeed to be up consistently tho

[tired cradle]

No

[dark widget]

she drops it twice in the demo vid

[tired cradle]

My first pin explains it

The chance is pretty high for base ammo

In one streak, she only has a 50% chance of exceeding 7-8 triggers in a row.

[open sphinx]

they should release the simulation 2.0 before adding more book hungry units

[tired cradle]

Each trigger is roughly 1.667s.

[open sphinx]

[tired cradle]

More or less.

[unreal hedge]

Too bad

You shall wither away in sim room 5

[tired cradle]

But Kosmiu, you see, if you have unlimited ammo, that 50% chance is only after she exceeds 15 triggers.

50% chance at 7-8 triggers

Vs 50% chance at 15 triggers

is a huge difference

Thats literally DOUBLE buff uptime

Medium Priority in fact

Not Low

If you get 3 max ammo

Of lets say

150%

It's already 150 base ammo

From 5 mins + 1 opt -> 4 opt + 2 min

5 + 2 vs 10

7 vs 10

Literally around 60% uptime boost (40% higher trigger chance)

This moves the trigger 50% chance from 7-8 to 10-11!

And the uptime is therefore 8-9 vs 5-7 trigger duration

And 8/5*100% is 60%

[cobalt arch]

inc extra ammo from this?

[tired cradle]

People who hate maths:

[tired cradle]

No

[dark widget]

i mean ur chance to drop it per 5 second goes from minimum 8.53%(48 shots 5% each assuming reload immediately after proc) to 4.61% from base to infinite ammo with a spread that's closer to 7.69% to 4.61% if we average uptime formula the reload time 5/6*60=50 bullets uptime average no?

[cobalt arch]

so that extra ammo doesnt matter?

[dark widget]

ammo would help build up the stacks every time u drop tho

[tired cradle]

I intentionally rounded down the base ammo one.

Because she will always reload in at least 5 windows.

So technically it's 48 ammo Tove.

Not 60.

[obsidian harness]

Whats the "*60"

[tired cradle]

But I didnt count S1 recover

[dark widget]

60shots in 5s

[tired cradle]

If I count

It will be higher

Slightly

[dark widget]

converting back from uptime to shots

[tired cradle]

But I wont overcomplicate things

[tired cradle]

You can't use average with Tove.

You need to use optimal vs minimum windows.

Optimal as in no reload, minimum as in WITH reload.

Minimum with Bastion is ±10%.

Minimum with Resilience is ±8.5%.

Optimal for both is ±4.6%.

Bastion has more Optimal but a steeper Minimum.

Resilience has less Optimal but a less severe Minimum.

[whole jackal]

So do I overload her with max ammo?

[tired cradle]

Yes?

[dark widget]

if u decide to overload her yes

[tired cradle]

i mean what else

Crit rate?

[cobalt arch]

https://tenor.com/view/ganondeaf-gaming-math-thinking-gif-21369495

[unreal hedge]

Crit Tove meta coming in

[lucid warren]

At most she get is 4 rocks 🪨

[tired cradle]

Here's the thing.

A well-OLed Tove has nearly double uptime than non-OL Tove.

Giving her just 4 rocks means you fuck yourself.

[whole jackal]

Do I overload sugar now?

[unreal hedge]

XRupee + Tove

[dark widget]

maybe u just god roll 3x black line atk ele ammo 1 rock per piece

[tired cradle]

Because after every reset,

[cobalt arch]

ammo lines with low lvl s1 work or she must has s1 lvl9?

[tired cradle]

the first 2 triggers do NOT count.

This makes it heavily biased to long streaks.

Which is only possible with more optimals.

[whole jackal]

Here's the real question, who does she replace as a B1?

[dark widget]

team 5

[tired cradle]

We know that there is a 50% chance that a base Tove will not exceed 7th or 8th trigger in a row.

[whole jackal]

U use liter Dorothy and like volume

[cobalt arch]

team 5 for sure

[whole jackal]

What happens when this game gets 5 solid teams of nikkes

All new nikkes will not have a spot

[dark widget]

maybe they will release 7 team content

[cobalt arch]

nah, switch to ele era

[dark widget]

or more restrictions like ele only

or they could just be better nikkes

[whole jackal]

They should do a game mode where u can use like 20 nikkes at once

Like a mega battle

[lucid warren]

She lucky to even get 4 rocks considering her meta comp not defined yet

[obsidian harness]

It's pretty much defined

What do you have to think about fucking SG comps

Tove dolla/Shelm sg sg flex

[cobalt arch]

need more than sugar...

[obsidian harness]

Make one of those SG sugar

[dark widget]

i have to think about if theyre buffing isabelle

[obsidian harness]

Anyways
I don't have to think about this, she's alrdy OL for me

Funny thing is, I just reset my sugar from 7/7/7

[cobalt arch]

my alt still sugarless...

[obsidian harness]

[dark widget]

isabel loves me

pulled her 4 times already

[lucid warren]

Im looking for another nikke to fill in

At current stage im not going to pump resource to that sg

[whole jackal]

What if they buff Isabel

With higher damage and pierce

[obsidian harness]

Isabel is goated bruh

Look at her skillset

[dark widget]

u can say that about any nikke tbh

[obsidian harness]

Only problem is, she needs 2cdrs

[whole jackal]

Give her cdr too

Why are there no b3 cdr units

[obsidian harness]

Isabel carried me in initial Boss stages

My first SI clears were with her

[dark widget]

mine were with modernia

[whole jackal]

Are they gonna give free rainbow tickets with Tove?

I need more

[sick torrent]

Made simulation for Tove S1, accounts for reloading, the refill and +max ammo. No cube equipped. Slowed the sim down on the video so stop at any time to see 1 sim. It's 3 min encounter

[pallid ridge]

[lucid warren]

Prydwen

[pallid ridge]

What will happen if they make it 10 sec and delete the burst time reduction?

Pls Don't mind the ads

[tired cradle]

Same, no sw, no noah, no harran

[dark widget]

i have the rest just got alot of isabel

[pallid ridge]

I got core 1 Isabel

Was really like her and give her a lot of skill book at the start

[tired cradle]

This actually

Confirms my maths

Since I was calculating around 70-80% uptime with 48 ammo resilience tove, but I didnt expect that to be this good

[pallid ridge]

Realizing a few months later that she's sh*t without the right team built around her

[tired cradle]

Though the uptime

Of infinite ammo Tove

Is like

85-87% ish

Because my independent uptime calc is

correct

But the ratio calc is wrong

[sick torrent]

77 without cube seems to be the base, currently running 100k sims, will report back if CPU isn't ded

[tired cradle]

Ah

Cus it's probability

I should use the quadratic statistical formula

Meh

Nope

[tired cradle]

Apparently, it's 11 triggers per streak on avg

For base ammo.

Maybe it's 50% with that parameter.

Its kinda hard to translate from probabilistic to actual thing

Like a probabilistic graph into a number

Iirc it fucking uses quadratics

I remember it has squares

It should be 83-84% for infinite ammo?

Surely

Idk i dont think so

Its def higher

Like 86-87%

Im fairly certain

[tired cradle]

Count for infinite ammo too

Is it 86-87%?

Literally theres an easy way to calculate this

IT USES FUCKING SUBTRACTION LMAO

And I do all this shit

[sick torrent]

After few thousand sims it always goes to 77% and around 5.9s to first max stack. No cube in this

[vestal jacinth]

So pilgrim duo now?
At this rate only Elysion and Abnormal are missing one

[ripe bridge]

Also just to add in, Im pretty sure ShiftUp secretly nerfed hit rate improvements. Few months back, 100+% hit rate had almost 100% core hits, now, 100+% hit rate is like maybd ~60% core hit

[tired cradle]

Base ammo of 48 + resilience has an average chance of 7.4%. multiply that by 3 (0stack,1stack,2stacks), now you get 77%.

I give up

[sick torrent]

Ye I can see what happens with inf ammo

[tired cradle]

It was as simple as that

Actually, its not like that

But

Its simplest

In reality, it's (1 * 92.6)^3.

[vestal jacinth]

The problems is
Are shotguns really that good to benefit from that attack rate

[tired cradle]

Thats the uptime.

[obsidian harness]

Sugar is

[tired cradle]

For my calc

The uptime at inf ammo

[vestal jacinth]

And who else? Drake?

[tired cradle]

The uptime at inf ammo is therefore 1 * (95.4%) ^ 3

[obsidian harness]

Drake is a good combo, yea

[tired cradle]

[obsidian harness]

Extra 10% Atk buff, 1000%+ burst

[tired cradle]

87%

[vestal jacinth]

Accounting for b2 cdr, last one is Isabel or Maiden?

I think Maiden had the slight edge here

[tired cradle]

The uptime at base ammo is around 79% with Resilience, discounting S1 buffs

The uptime at max ammo is around 87%

[vestal jacinth]

Dumb idea: use infinite ammo Diesel

[tired cradle]

Note that the uptime isnt a good measurement

[obsidian harness]

I want healer

Personally

So it's flex spot for now

[tired cradle]

If u reload ure fucked up

Thats it

[vestal jacinth]

So summer Mary or Rapunzel, or gasp pepper?

[obsidian harness]

Pepper is possible ngl

Like, really possible

Sugar and drake do cuck her but

[tired cradle]

Imagine ditching Marciana

🙂

[obsidian harness]

I wonder if she can keep stacks

[obsidian harness]

Pepper is dps

[tired cradle]

Pepper is dps in what world

Pepper's dps is in her burst

[vestal jacinth]

S2 hits like a wet noodle lol

Every 15 seconds

[sick torrent]

Here's inf ammo / no reload. 85% uptime and first max stack @ 5.2s on avg

[vestal jacinth]

@tired cradle so tldr, wishlist Tove and for Christmas and double Pilgrims?

[tired cradle]

No?

Get Tove

[exotic pulsar]

[tired cradle]

What the fuck

[lucid warren]

https://tenor.com/view/pull-gacha-mobile-game-kermit-gif-8751144

[vestal jacinth]

What if you added diesel or Noir in?

[tired cradle]

Hmmm

It averages at 85% I see

[vestal jacinth]

I'm trying to smuggle 200 pulls to Christmas

[tired cradle]

Which means it dies at 17 triggers

I wish I could convert my probabilistic function into an integer function

[lucid warren]

according to mold % math it dies when i need it the most

[vestal jacinth]

Hmm what if you added in Diesel, or Noir?

[sick torrent]

What do they do for infinite ammo?

[obsidian harness]

Burst is 1000% every 20s

[vestal jacinth]

Diesel: shoot 1000 mg rounds to refill ammo
Noir: on full burst, increase max ammo and refill ammo

[obsidian harness]

Bro

[tired cradle]

WHAT DO THEY DO FOR INFINITE AMMO

[obsidian harness]

It's infinite ammo

[tired cradle]

[obsidian harness]

Infinite = unlimited

Non stop shooting

No reload, just pew pew

[vestal jacinth]

Hmm infinite ammo means fodder for jackal in arena

[tired cradle]

???????

[vestal jacinth]

Tove bad for pvp?

[potent socket]

i believe so

[random rose]

realistically atp you start swapping based on elements

[obsidian harness]

If you can get max stacks in 3 bullets

[random rose]

naturally the same fixed 5 teams aren't always gonna be the most ideal for every boss, even across the SRs we've had now there's been a lot of swapping

[obsidian harness]

She can be meta maybe

But still not by much

She's overall just bad

Maiden AoE buffer

That's it

But even then she's just..
Nah

[sick torrent]

If she becomes SR meta it will be horrible to fish those S1 procs, maybe worse than SW fishing? Here's example how much you can deviate from avg if you keep fishing.

[obsidian harness]

Kira Gon fish for 99% uptime

[random rose]

more 3 hour runs

[sick torrent]

💀

[random rose]

trust we gonna get a Nikke that increases the chance for Skills to proc

[obsidian harness]

Nothing screams made for SR more than another rng dependant nikke

[random rose]

I'm surprised no such thing exists yet

[random rose]

separates top 200 to top 1%

[obsidian harness]

Well, we have crit rate buffers

Idk about fucking skill rate buffers

[random rose]

2 in one year

[random rose]

it's common in gachas, just Nikke isn't your typical Gacha just going off the damage formula

[obsidian harness]

Me when Def down gives us exactly +5 more damage on an already existing 7 digit damage output

[vestal jacinth]

literally a 1/8000 chance, plus additional rng to keep the stacks

[obsidian harness]

Hey bro
It's 50/50 in my books

It either happens or it doesn't

[vestal jacinth]

but even then if you're shooting into jackal/scarlet, it's still terrible

[obsidian harness]

Ok but
Mf you can say that to any team

Apart from rh/Alice
All major carries feed into scarlet

Even
Scarlet

Feeds into scarlet

In a Mirror matchup where both scars are equal

Whichever scar procs more S2 wins

[signal torrent]

atm my games tend to be decided by rockets whiffs

[obsidian harness]

If they don't patch them out of this stupid game

Before I'm gone

I'll write 50 emails of just fuckyou to shiftup

There's still no major PvP bug report given yet
I'll make it soon

[marsh basin]

Pull tove guys

[random rose]

after skipping Marci man

never skipping units again

trust SG meta soon

but not Isabel

[cobalt arch]

3h rerun for almost 3 stack full time?

[marsh basin]

someone jsut make a meme for the 5%

and then we spam

till shiftup makes it 10%

[obsidian harness]

70% avrg uptime

It's not bad

Just Reroll for 6 hours and get a good run
That simple

6 hours for tove run
12 hours for SW run
2 hours for the rest of them
The remaining 4 hours of the day are for sleeping/eating

[dark widget]

if i had to reroll for 6 hours i would just not play

[marsh basin]

u guys sure its that bad?

@dark widget have u reviewed their math

[dark widget]

no i went to go play another game

after a quick look

[dark widget]

like right when u enter full burst?

[vestal jacinth]

are you sure

because my shotguns (specifically sugar) aren't built up enough

[lucid warren]

Only the simps and UR1 tryhard have those sugar isabel built

[indigo terrace]

Imagine lose your whole DMG in full burst

💀

[lucid warren]

nah farm we about to get a b3 shotgun support buffing hit rate, cdr, and damage vamp

Nayuta

[woeful solar]

Replace A with E

https://tenor.com/view/anime-cute-crazy-head-shake-mikakuninde-shinkoukei-gif-12208068

[vestal jacinth]

can you comment on the 1/8000 chance for tove to make the shotguns go crazy in arena

[opal flicker]

[woeful solar]

Won't matter cause she's an AR so your SG team is still only gonna be 3RL. Plus SGs are too easy to counter with Scarlet, Makima or Biscuit

If they had instead made her an SG or removed the ammo reload part, she would have been hard meta in PvP

Now she's just an attack pick for brute forcing through slow defence comps that don't use invuln

Probably counters my Quiry stall team

[mental veldt]

We still mathing in here?

[rustic hearth]

this is considering no OL gear right?

[sharp igloo]

Do u know how Tove's e2 works? I want to know if she still buffs crit and attack speed even when s1's stacks are expired

[tired cradle]

No

My uptime calc is wrong

But the others are right

So 77% uptime at base

85% uptime at infinite

With lots of variance

Infinite ammo has slightly better variance

Check graph

On pin

But 85% is like the hard cap

U gotta pray for rng

[drowsy scroll]

malding sw crits
malding tove stacks

[tired cradle]

TOVE'S RNG CALCULATION v2

• At base ammo and without any cubes, Tove's uptime at Stack 3 is around 77%. The uptime at other stacks is 7% each. This means the average length of Stack 3 in each streak is 11 trigger duration (18.33s) out of 14 trigger duration (23.33s).
• At infinite ammo, Tove's uptime at Stack 3 is around 85%. The uptime at other stacks is 5% each. This means the average length of Stack 3 in each streak is 17 trigger durations (28.33s) out of 20 trigger durations (33.33s).
• If you notice, the base ammo variant doesn't have that bad of an uptime, but it does dip nearly twice as often as the infinite ammo one.
• This means RNG is stronger at lower base ammo but should be manageable without Max Ammo lines.

Still a copy

Dont skip

[vestal jacinth]

But what about Christmas

[tired cradle]

Also dont skip?

Its better to skip Marciana than Tove

Lmao

Wishlist Marciana is ok but not Tove

[lucid warren]

@stable grove PULLL

https://tenor.com/view/pull-gacha-mobile-game-kermit-gif-8751144

[tired cradle]

Problem with tove is only atk spd uptime

[vestal jacinth]

I hope I can lucksack again lol

[tired cradle]

4 6 8 on s2 btw

[cobalt arch]

skill mats too

[vestal jacinth]

So actually just skip?

[tired cradle]

No

Shes pretty forgiving

9/6/10 is ok

9/4/10 is also ok

[vestal jacinth]

Oh come on, I still have to work on schoolgirls

[cobalt arch]

Burst lvl10 isnt ok...

[tired cradle]

Novel is probably more below meta than Tove unless on jumping boss or boss with sp QTE

Novel is alr shafted

I alr suggested resetting her last raid

As well as Guillo

[cobalt arch]

My mw burst still 7...

[tired cradle]

But Guillo is for ely tower

[tired cradle]

Tell me ur nikke list

[cobalt arch]

Invested?

[tired cradle]

Yes

Dont fucking say scar burst 10

[lucid warren]

@marsh basin Good to reset novel ?

[tired cradle]

No

I said suggested

Shes still on the brink

Situational

[lucid warren]

[cobalt arch]

10 10 10 cuz pvp...

[tired cradle]

Then dont complain to me

In 2+ raid

Guillo will be obsolete

But u need her for tower

2B is threatened

Rn

If 1 is unthreatened and 10 is extinct

Shes at 6

[cobalt arch]

Liter 10 7 10
Scar 10 10 10
Priv 10 4 6
Mw 10 1 7
Tia 10 4 4
Naga 10 7 7
Redhood 10 10 10
Blanc 1 4 10
Noir 10 10 4
Alice 10 4 10
Xanne, novel burst 7
Sw 4 4 10
Guli 1 7 1
Drake 7 4 4
Sanis 10 10 9
i dont think i wasted skill mats somewhere except scar

[tired cradle]

Xanne....

Scarlet ..

Wheres Mod

[cobalt arch]

10 10 7,forgot about her

[tired cradle]

Whats ur story

Hard

And sync

[cobalt arch]

16-13

[marsh basin]

id sit on her but shes really hard to fit in a top 4 team lol

[cobalt arch]

Sync 311

[tired cradle]

Ok

Your upgrading burst is justified

But xanne...

[cobalt arch]

She work in pvp

[tired cradle]

Scar S2 is fucking useless

Xaanne burst

[tired cradle]

OK TELL ME HOW MUCH U GET FOR UPGRADING THEM

HOW MUCH MORE GEMS

[cobalt arch]

300

[vestal jacinth]

Do you think Xanne rerun won't happen

[tired cradle]

Bro its just u wont get any return

Ok ure spending around 10 days of burst manuals (XAnne) and nearly 1 month of skill manuals for Scarlet

Just to get 300 more gems per 2 weeks

[vestal jacinth]

4 limited banners sounds terrible

[tired cradle]

When u can get 300 more gems in raid too

I reset 2B

2B helped me get 300 more gems in arena

But Idfc

She was 7/10/7

Too costly

And I alr knew Tove could somehow replace her

[tired cradle]

Shouldnt have built Guillo or Drake

[cobalt arch]

Tbf lvl7 is ez cuz event shop give alot manual 1 & 2, but 8-10 is painful

[tired cradle]

Level 7 u get half baked unit

You should start from most important units downward

Like Guillo lv 7 is...

I never advise to up Guillo unless u can make her 10

[tired cradle]

She will be in mileage store

[marsh basin]

[tired cradle]

[tired cradle]

#raid-planning message

[woeful solar]

Mentioning PvP but not even Burst 10 Noise

[cobalt arch]

Right... Forgot about doro, 10 7 10 btw

[woeful solar]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-waiting-for-text-waiting-for-your-reply-gif-14108959

[tired cradle]

The why

[cobalt arch]

Not sure why i upgrade her s2...

[tired cradle]

Mark my words

Sugar Guilty

Or Sugar Drake Marciana

[sharp igloo]

Why would I have Noise burst 10 if my team get melted before I can burst

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1103932925562605619.png?v=1

[marsh basin]

build better comp that noise bursts b4 scarlet bursts

[sharp igloo]

I get killed by normal attack

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1064134661762199572.png?v=1

[civic plank]

Does shotgun also have their firing rate tied to fps?

[marsh basin]

credit card gap

[sharp igloo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1015016162679070850.png?v=1

[obsidian harness]

No

Well, technically if you're at 1fps, yes

But no diff bw 30 and 60 fps

[marsh basin]

unless

sugar gets 31 bps

🤔

[sharp igloo]

Based on my calculation, he will get a credit wall when he reaches lv400. Then I can slowly catch up

[lucid warren]

bro think he reaches 400sync and not buying credit pack everyday while brushing teeth in the morning

[civic plank]

So technically they are tied to the fps, just doesnt have a significant difference…

In this case wont any atk speed buff can only go as much as the upper limit/cap then?

[obsidian harness]

There's no difference within the 30-60fps scale that 98% of the players are on

[tired cradle]

98?

More like 99

[civic plank]

More like everyone, i guess

[tired cradle]

5+5 is 10

Which is interesting

[obsidian harness]

It doesn't matter how up it goes, SG speed is 1.5 shots/s base.

Even a 400% increase makes it 9 shots/s, which is slower than machine guns, so it'll work

Cap doesn't matter here

What matters is how little it's boosting up atk speed.

#1176712613556658196 message

[obsidian harness]

33 = 18 shots during burst
32 = 18 shots during burst
31 = 19 shots during burst
30 = 20 shots during burst
29 = 20 shots during burst
28 = 21 shots during burst

[civic plank]

So its more like ammo counts too little, that any fps based cap just doesnt matter

[obsidian harness]

If I'm doing this correctly

[civic plank]

I see

[obsidian harness]

So atk speed is doing minimal increases in general over 10s of burst

[tired cradle]

Its permanent

....

[obsidian harness]

Ok thats too much maths for my brain

I was just doing burst cuz that's where we do big pp damage

[tired cradle]

SG is dependent on ammo htw

With Tove

Most SG is 15 ammo

Which is gone in 7 secs

[civic plank]

My concern is just more on if atk speed increase will be useless because of that supposed fps tying to firing rate

[tired cradle]

The 0.5s secs isnt counted

Because it overlaps with reload

[obsidian harness]

Just

#research-results message

Peek this

[marsh basin]

i got 4x 68.93% max ammo on my naga

i hope i get the same on tove

[tired cradle]

I might run

[marsh basin]

first try

[tired cradle]

Drake Maiden

Sugar Maiden

Maiden Guilty

[marsh basin]

[tired cradle]

But I must bring Maiden

[marsh basin]

maiden cope

[tired cradle]

[marsh basin]

sugar is by far the best beneficiary of tove so far

[obsidian harness]

Sugar drake guilty is what I have in mind, but heals are necessary

[marsh basin]

unfortunately idk if marci wud work

she wud be a char strictly there for

her s2

[obsidian harness]

She has heals on burst..

[marsh basin]

and her autos

yea

[obsidian harness]

Maybe someday she hits last bullet proc

[marsh basin]

with sugar max ammo and tove max ammo

will take years

[obsidian harness]

But also
If you put Marci here
You're forced to run no healer in Doro SAnis scar

[marsh basin]

yea

so my current cook

assuming tove is 80% att

[tired cradle]

Maiden Guilty

[marsh basin]

is tove s.helm sugar drake rapunzel

[tired cradle]

[marsh basin]

and a situational team 5

[obsidian harness]

I'd put in Mary just for the sake of spam

[marsh basin]

mary is a last bullet too

[tired cradle]

Picking Rapu over Helm?

[marsh basin]

helm is on team 4

[obsidian harness]

I meant smary

[tired cradle]

TF U WANNA SPAM SMARY IN SG TEAM

[obsidian harness]

Spam = DPS
Rapunzel is anti spam

Small pp DPS but dps

[tired cradle]

Rapunzel is spammable

Wdym

She just doesnt heal when u spam

Maiden Guilty Sugar it is

[obsidian harness]

Unless if you have like
Ele rolls on Rapunzel
I don't see her being used over mary

[tired cradle]

My Maiden is core 3 man

She has highest atk stats to copy

By Guilty

Unless i build my Drake

Which is core 2

[marsh basin]

regardless

think tove is a must pull if its 80%

1 copy

[tired cradle]

I ALR SAID THAT

MFFFFFFFFFF

[marsh basin]

yea but u flip flop

half ur shit

[lucid warren]

said the guy who called smary is gay strat

[tired cradle]

WHAT DO U MEAN FLIP FLOP HALF OF MY SHIT

Bro SAYS FLIP FLOP CUS MY DRAKE S1 IS 6

[marsh basin]

u go from im right to im wrong to wait am i right to wait am i wrong to im right

[obsidian harness]

I hate using pure healers

[tired cradle]

Oh

I never said im wrong with burst after 2x bamboozle

Austin, I still theorycraft better than people

[marsh basin]

see i wonder if because this tove comping is so ugly

if u can do some stupid shit like

tove s.helm sugar guil noise

🤔

[tired cradle]

Skill issue

Use Tove as offburst

Give 6 anmo to Alice

Now she can fire 44 uninterrupted

Ok lets do maths

Noir is 5,

Tove is 6

Bastion is +42%

44 / 142%

[obsidian harness]

I think overall..

This gets outDPSed by what Kira ran last raid anyways

Novel guillo 2b scar

[tired cradle]

31

• 11

[obsidian harness]

How do you plan to beat 2 heavy hitter's and a tanker who is a novel buffed burst

[tired cradle]

= 20

If ur Alice has 20 ammo

She can shoot 44 uninterrupted

[marsh basin]

in my comp scarlet is in team 3

i just think

everyones underestimating sugar

[obsidian harness]

Well then we still have
B1 Mast 2B guillo shelm

Also keep in mind
A2 is backup, boss parts = she's in

[obsidian harness]

They used her last raid

Ele makes anyone good

Talk about water weak boss raids as ideal cuz that makes everyone equal

[marsh basin]

ignoring element

i think just the attack speed from tove

makes sugar hit harder than scarlet

[tired cradle]

Gatrix says otherwise

[obsidian harness]

^

He said it with maths

[tired cradle]

But I dont trust Gatrix

This time

Because

Guilty was already outdpsing solo Scarlet

In the past

[obsidian harness]

I trust him
Think he's correct

At best sugar = scarlet

Base scarlet

[tired cradle]

When Guilty is released

Guilty outdps Scarlet

Answer it urself

Now Tove brings more than what Guilty brings

Higher atk

Also atk spd and ammo

I told u against no core and with dmg distance

Scarlet will lose

terribly

And SG has all elements

[marsh basin]

Sugar: 1.5 BPS * (1 + .4224 + .66) * 231.6% = 723.42576
Scarlet: 12 BPS * 27.08% * (1 + .2315*5) = 701.1012

napkin math

b4 tove att buff

also ignores sugar's s2 max ammo buff

[cobalt arch]

Against boss without core?

[tired cradle]

Against boss without core

[marsh basin]

i think they are both equally str/weakness to core/nocore

sugar shud get 80%+ hit rate reliably

assuming u are OL aiming for it

[tired cradle]

But at the end

Your goal is to bring 2 SG

[obsidian harness]

If you're putting sugar with a buffer
Pair scar with her buffer

[tired cradle]

One with dmg one with elemental advantage

Electric = Maiden, Isabel

Fire = Drake

[marsh basin]

i didnt put in tove's attack buff here

[tired cradle]

Water = Poli, Viper

[marsh basin]

this is just attack speed

if u compare apples to apples

team 5 scarlet and team 5 sugar

team 5 scarlet has pepper

[cobalt arch]

core dmg still sg weakness

[marsh basin]

team 5 sugar has tove

[obsidian harness]

Tove, yeah
But no heals

[tired cradle]

Helm

Marciana

[obsidian harness]

Helm is snowwhite team

[tired cradle]

Poli

[tired cradle]

No shit thats Yulha

Oh wait

Nvm

[marsh basin]

i think only way marci works is

u need high cores and OL marci so that her s2 can sole heal

if not the heal is too low

cuz she doesnt have a s1 with tove/sugar

[obsidian harness]

If we're simply going for the no heal, yeah sugar drake/scarlet guilty should be superior overall than using scarlet t5 teams

Pepper can be ditched

[marsh basin]

anyways

my team 3 has scarlet rn

so im realistcally comparing sugar to

[obsidian harness]

But if you include heals, might be a bit rougher

[tired cradle]

How tf is Pepper Scar > Tove SG

[marsh basin]

2b, a2, and guillo

[tired cradle]

Listen here u piece of shit

[marsh basin]

i think its basically the mix of 2b, a2, guillo versus sugar drake mix

[tired cradle]

All DPS SG ARE SCATTERED ACROSS 5 DIFF ELEMENTS

THERE ARE NO 5 SCARD

[marsh basin]

who is kisenix talking to

[tired cradle]

Snake

[marsh basin]

is he arguing with the wall

[tired cradle]

No, im arguing with Snake

[marsh basin]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

[tired cradle]

Wow toxic

Ok austin

So does that mean

Snake is a wall?

[marsh basin]

[tired cradle]

[mental veldt]

I know, right?

[tired cradle]

If u know me well

U know Im not toxic

With that

Its just the way I talk

These people know

So hush

[mental veldt]

No

[tired cradle]

[marsh basin]

[obsidian harness]

She's equal to 2B with tove, ~10% lower than scar+SAnis output

A2 is boss part hoarder

Guillo is waiting for mast or novel or cores to buff her damage output, and also if 2B can handle the damage from the boss alone

[tired cradle]

Ok if u dont wanna leave

[mental veldt]

Like the position of privilage that Kisenix has here. Just great.

[tired cradle]

Then Imma ramble

[tired cradle]

Ask anyone

I curse/swear a lot

And its normal for me

[mental veldt]

Yes, that's the issue

[tired cradle]

Ok so what

Im active here

[obsidian harness]

You can't be using sugar alone

[tired cradle]

If I do have privilege

Then what r u gonna do?

[mental veldt]

Wait for the mods to ban me.

[tired cradle]

You think everyone in this world is equal?

No its not

[obsidian harness]

Pepper scar already means you need survival for your nikkes
Since you ditched scar from SAnis team

[marsh basin]

i actually think tove + sugar is better than mast/novel + 2b but we'll see kira math

[mental veldt]

That's a spicy one to screenshot

[tired cradle]

Feel free

No ones gonna do shit

Its just the way I talk

[mental veldt]

Again, that's the issue

[marsh basin]

also need to consider tove + sugar also comes with drake

[obsidian harness]

Kira previously stated that 2B ~10% below or above scarlet

[tired cradle]

Yeah so what

[marsh basin]

and drake is getting considerable buffs from tove /sugar

[obsidian harness]

She revolves around her

[tired cradle]

No one hates me cus I curse/swear

Youre being finicky

[obsidian harness]

So in that case

Sugar is 10% of scarlet as well, (scar+SAnis)

[marsh basin]

yea and he said that with 26% att buff tove is team 5

[mental veldt]

No one said the issue was you cursing or swearing, btw.

[marsh basin]

so now that its 80%

what happens

[tired cradle]

So whats the issue

[obsidian harness]

26%????
You gave me 76% last time

[tired cradle]

Its 76% * 83.33%

[marsh basin]

huh

[tired cradle]

Lmao

U forgot that shes support

[marsh basin]

ALL IM SAYING

IS PULL

[tired cradle]

Multiply by 0.8333

First

[marsh basin]

well

actually dont pull

test if its 80% first

then pull

[obsidian harness]

Ok I just read it wrong

[tired cradle]

76% * 0.8333

[mental veldt]

You refered to someone in a degrading manner.

[tired cradle]

Here ez math 63.3%

[obsidian harness]

We have shooting range now

[tired cradle]