Research Dungeon

[copper nexus]

1307 was supposed to be 1287

novel works as intended

isabel bug is interesting though

I wonder what is the mechanic behind it

[still drift]

IF Tencent feeling good : Allow Novel and Isabele to work as intended
IF Tencent feeling bad : Make Novel and Isabele "bugged"

Its gonna be fixed in 2~ days, I wouldn't fuss over it

[fringe junco]

on second thought never mind... huh that's a weird demonstration

the demonstration has to be with the old 5s timer because it's not even half way done after her first shot into the second one

I've compared it to the current noise's buff and the speed is the same

this is how much current noise depletes her buff before she refreshes the buff again currently

this is the frame in the gif before she rebuffs herself

it's a little emptier but definitely not more than half

there's also movement in the demonstration that could have led to a delayed shot

found a faster one in the gif

the demonstration is still with the 5s (old) buff I'd say

certainly not the new 1.8s

[meager elbow]

I had this conversation above

[fringe junco]

yep I saw that

I did some timing of noise's shots done by AI. This was done on a big target where no aim correcting time was lost.

shot 2 to 3: 1.326 seconds
shot 3 to 4: 1.334 seconds

we'd have to manually interfere a little to get the AI to shoot every 1.8s

we need a charge shot delayed cube for auto play lol

something like increase time between shots by 50% and increase dmg of shots by 50%

[willow pecan]

might just mean she won't heal at all in pvp for now

[fringe junco]

she'll just heal on shot 1 and after reload or a stun that lasts for 2s or longer

but no longer that OP heal after every shot immortality bs

[molten robin]

After a stun that lasts for 0.8s you mean

[fringe junco]

ye however the timing works out

[molten robin]

But yea, she's dead in pvp now

[fringe junco]

nah far from dead

her burst still makes sure your team survives nicely

50% maxHP team wide is still broken

[dull zenith]

I don’t see how she’s dead in PvP. She heals herself every reload and she heals your team on burst.

[willow pecan]

my attack teams burst before first reload on anyone happens

it's a privaty burst

noise didn't give a shit in the past because she'd be 100% health when that burst hits and she'd go back to 100% health in one hit after the stun ends, usually I can't kill her from 100-0% in 3 seconds

now she dies after my burst

she's still usable if your opponent is dumb as fuck but at that point anything is usable.

[dull zenith]

I feel like saying that Noise not healing her self with every shot makes her un-usable also invalidates every other character in PvP

[molten robin]

Not every other shot, she will only heal after she reloads

Or is stunned

So 1 in 6 shots instead of every shot

[dull zenith]

Right, I'm saying that healing once per reload and healing on burst makes her a normal character in PvP

Others are saying she is unusuable

[molten robin]

Which is what I'm saying too yes

She just doesn't do anything that's strong enough or unfair enough

Healing every shot was unfair, healing every 6 shots not so much

[dull zenith]

We should wait for actual testing, but I believe if she is beefy enough to survive to burst, she has the best team heal in the game. A combination of Max HP +40-smth% + continuous healing for 10s.

[high kindle]

She is RL so automatically at least usable in pvp

[dull zenith]

And I believe she can easily survive until burst. I mean, Liter can as well.

[molten robin]

I mean, RL is decent, but not that special

Unless she's hitting 3 targets, which she usually won't be

[willow pecan]

Noise is meta for one reason only. She's unkillable. Once she loses that she goes to bottom of the barrel

Other good chars are shotguns/RL with good damage and burst gen that noise does not provide, and burst 3 carries which will win you the match if they get to burst. Noise burst might not be too bad as a teamwide heal but it's not as decisive as scarlet oneshotting three members and breaking their burst chain before it happens. There's also the healers/raisers, like Rapunzel and fanne, latter double dips as strong af attack buffer.

That's 90% of the PvP meta in Nikke right there. Last 10% is random things that might work here and there.

[fringe junco]

noise was never unkillable

her burst is still insane and that's what will retain her place in pvp

[willow pecan]

My 160 noise can't be killed by my whale rank 1 at synchro 185

Maybe if he reaches 200 he'll finally kill her.

[fringe junco]

lol is he using f tier characters or something lvl 185 full team should ez deal with noise at 160

your experience is very far from the norm

[willow pecan]

Scarlet privaty

But I burst first

So I win

Maybe the norm needs to learn to first strike with burst while letting noise tank

[fringe junco]

clearly he's playing the game wrong outside of w/e noise does

[willow pecan]

But like it's too late

Noise era is over soon

He's got a decent comp of 2 burst 3 powerhouses and the rest are burst generators.

But my noise is stronger.

Unless you are also fighting whales at high level differences (and winning) I don't know what I'm seeing here.

[cyan sedge]

so about this, i tested in shooting range with Centi just shooting the sky, it still gives me the extra round

[molten robin]

Maybe rockets are special?

I tested with an AR

[cyan sedge]

well visually its not actually adding a round to my mag but simply not consuming that round

[molten robin]

I know the behavior

It replaced itself

But what I observed when shooting terrain with an AR was not the same behavior

[cyan sedge]

ill try other weapons like shotguns

[molten robin]

ARs need a target to fire right?

They won't fire at the sky?

[cyan sedge]

oh yeah they do

[molten robin]

Maybe that's the difference, weapons that need a target vs don't

If you need a target, it only counts if it hits an enemy and not terrain/the sky

We can verify by testing other weapons

[cyan sedge]

so if thas the case itll be pretty good for mg since they dont need a target to shoot

[molten robin]

Right

[cyan sedge]

alright, so tested with drake. shotgun cant shoot the sky so i shot terrain instead, bastion still gave me the extra round

[cyan sedge]

i think it just might be hard to tell with ARs due to their high fire rate

[cyan sedge]

ok so i can confirm it definitely works on AR. tested with Julia. I shoot terrain until mag is 50/60. i quickly swipe my crosshair on terrain then move it back out. I hear the bullet being shot, i see the visual hit effect, but the ammo count remains at 50/60

[molten robin]

remains at 50? it should remain at 51

51-42-33 etc

[cyan sedge]

idk thats what i observed in the others aswell.
i shoot 10 rounds, and then the 11th round does not consume ammo

[molten robin]

that's odd because I definitely observed the 10th round not consuming ammo

terrain weirdness aside, I tested it too much to have gotten that part wrong

[cyan sedge]

is there any way to record video on phone? im not too familiar with it

[molten robin]

there should be

I play on pc though

hold on I have video from my testing

let me upload it

no you're right, I misstated my own conclusion at the time, my videos clearly show you shoot 10 then get the refund on the 11th

so most likely what I did with the terrain testing was saw the drop from 51 to 50 and concluded it wasnt working

not looking at 50-49

https://streamable.com/o4thd6

not sure how I got that mixed up but I have several videos showing the refund is on 50

[cyan sedge]

ok, so luckily android has a built in screen recorder. Testing Bastion Cube AR against terrain

[copper nexus]

has anyone been able to confirm how cover level works in sp intercept

is it based on synchro level or unit level

[tender summit]

So the news for skill remade for Noise is a typo (again), seems like her max hp up for 5s got reduced to 1.8s, there is no cooldown

[tender summit]

Fixed at lvl 200

Cover stats has their own seperated HP and Def and it's universal for all char

[copper nexus]

I've seen proof it can go above 200 though

[still drift]

@copper nexus 287

[frosty shore]

If you are above lv200 and do sp intercept do you get scaled down to 200 or no

[ornate solar]

you get scaled down is what i assume

since its explicitly said that levels are fixed to lvl 200

[copper nexus]

You get scaled down

[dull zenith]

Sim room buffs now stack

[molten robin]

Same rarity stacks now?

[dull zenith]

According to patch notes yes

[molten robin]

Nice

[dull zenith]

"Fixed an issue where identical buffs in Simulation room do not stack"

[molten robin]

Anyone been able to test guilty on test server to see if her attack buff uses base attack or buffed attack?

[dull zenith]

You can now start Simulation from B instead of A

from C as well

[molten robin]

@still drift the patch notes mention the stacking of identical options for modified equipment

Can you check if that allows multiples of the same buff to stack?

[still drift]

Later for sure.

Zooming through story atm

[dull zenith]

All bug fixes: https://nikke-en.com/newsdetail.html?content_id=3b336819ae2bfa4a2ea8fcea6a1e0cf79b17&sid=&from=index&col_name=

[dull zenith]

UI elements in landscape mode are hella blurry

[willow pecan]

anyone can confirm that stun bullshit on sin

[fringe junco]

reload bug is back

liter / privaty / yuni, etc

tested yuni

she reloads self only from my testing not team wide like before

example for yuni getting her ammo back but it's not team shared

example video for liter / privaty who do team share their reload bug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIAdNn4qb3Q

after checking the video looks like the reload bug is self only for everyone who had it

privaty instantly reloads her ammo (fourth slot) but her team does not

[cyan sedge]

Rapunzel heals seem to be bugged after this update. Her skill 1 and burst skill no longer seems to be affected by her skill 2 heal potency.

And her skill 1 healing now scales off of her own hp despite the desc saying it scales off the targets.

[fringe junco]

is that good or bad?

[cyan sedge]

first one is ofc bad, heal potency no longer is buffing her heals

2nd one it depends now that scales from her health, she heals attackers better but defenders worse

and i guess her gear, and limit breaks now matter for heals

[fringe junco]

interesting stuff on the second part but a big shame her HP potency isn't working

[cyan sedge]

ill check other healers

[native bane]

so equipment substats stack now?

[fringe junco]

that's big

[native bane]

I liked the idea of having a perfect equipment to reach

but now theres gonna be builds for every character

[fringe junco]

liter just gave me team wide clip reload

she still does it

[dull zenith]

I just did SI Modernia and my Scarlet experienced the reload bug repeatedly. I don't think her kit has a mag refresh skill, so it probably came from Liter

[fringe junco]

funny thing is

I've had both a instant clip reload

but also an instant clip deload

where my scarlet needed to reload twice fully

[dull zenith]

I think I might have experienced somethin glike that, not sure

I just know for a fact that every other reload or so my Scarlet did something wonky

[fringe junco]

yep same

[wintry ravine]

anyone care to join me in testing jackal?

I'm having jack shit luck with her burst damage component

it's a buff for your teammates rather than a debuff to an enemy so it would suggest you can target w/e you like

but I'm not seeing any change in damage

even using characters that only do a single damage instance like dolla and helm

[sweet ocean]

fucking hell guilty's spare bodies need union coins

ig that means union raids are coming soon

yikes though

[frosty shore]

FPS bug was not fixed right?

With midernia

[sweet ocean]

@frosty shoreI have anonymous confirmations that FPS damage nerfs are fixed this patch, don't quote me though

[frosty shore]

The only thing i noticed in regards to fps is that my game is locked to 60 now on emulator

Prepatch i was able to go above 60 in main lobby etc

not sure if its just me tho

using ldplayer

[final pebble]

can confirm, using LDplayer right now in lobby locked to 60

[fringe junco]

so that's what's happening an fps lock?

I have it in game and that's a bit of an issue cuz dps loss

[molten robin]

What your testing methods so far?

I can help when I'm home soon and pull for her

[frosty shore]

im not even getting 60 fps

55.8 fps

according to ldplayer

[wintry ravine]

I just went into shooting range and recorded a few videos of laplace, scarlet, dolla, helm bursts etc with random garbage R nikkes so no other buffs. Then I did the same with but now with jackal on the team

I looked at the damage numbers and couldn't see any differences

[molten robin]

Ok I'll take a look too

[wintry ravine]

either she's bugged or the tooltip is just completely bogus

[sweet ocean]

for single target situations it would be better to go for boss stages/SIs no?

[wintry ravine]

yeah I guess I could record on mordernia

honestly it's 1:46am my time and I'm a bit tired

kinda just want to clear mordernia for my rng gear fix

the thing is though the damage component of her burst applies as a buff to your allies

it would suggest any target they choose to hit should take the increased damage

so it shouldn't matter if you fight vs a single target

[molten robin]

Right

[wintry ravine]

wait a minute looked over my videos

the single target bursts do seem to get multiplied by her burst

though it's not consistant unless I'm just too tired

[sweet ocean]

damn that's a fat atk% buff, and ridiculous uptime too

[wintry ravine]

base

Helm burst damage 239066
Dolla 128889
(might be the other way around idk how they geared )

with jackal

Helm instance 271181
Dolla crit 245997

128889* 1.5 (crit) *1.27 (jackal) = 245k

but idk how the helm figure comes about

with jackal

no jackal

so doesn't seem to do anything at all for scarlet

seems to boost dolla burst, unsure on helm

[sweet ocean]

expected

[wintry ravine]

I wouldn't call this expected from the tooltip

most people assumed it would target one random enemy with a debuff

in that case you would expect aoe bursts to do increased damage to that target

as it appears to work it only works with single target bursts

which is worse than most thought it was, me included

much more limiting in your team building

it probably doesn't work with snow white either

as she can hit multiple targets with her burst

it's not a simple single target burst

[fringe junco]

does the burst need to be single target to work with jackal?

[wintry ravine]

seems like it but more testing needed

only person I've got it to work with is dolla

[fringe junco]

shit I thought it would debuff 1 target and any burst dmg dealt to the target would be increased

no matter if aoe or w/e as long as it was burst dmg dealt to that 1 target

[wintry ravine]

yeah that's what most thought lol

another poorly worded tooltip

[fringe junco]

well I can't say anything on it cuz it doesn't work as advertised

[wintry ravine]

it's not the worst thing in the universe I guess

[fringe junco]

do you have modernia? does it work with her?

[wintry ravine]

I do have mordernia, I'll give her a quick try

I tried laplace though and it was no dice

[fringe junco]

15seconds of 40% more dmg should be amazing

if it works with modernia

[molten robin]

if it does affect modernia it prob only boosts the actual burst damage and not her s1

[molten robin]

for scarlet, is it possible it checks how many targets there are? if she uses her burst against a single target on screeen, could it work?

[wintry ravine]

possible I guess, more probable it simply only works with single target bursts

but I guess it could work in the way you suggest

[molten robin]

definitely more probable it's hard coded to work with specific abilities

[fringe junco]

would be funny if it somehow still allowed a SW nuke

[molten robin]

it would not surprise me if it affects SW

[cyan sedge]

ok so i figured out the issue with rapunzels bug with heal potency. heal potency after the patch is now only buffing the heals if the healer has the buff, not the target

[fringe junco]

that would make sense to me

except

that she gives it out

[molten robin]

nothing odd about that, it lets her buff other healers

[fringe junco]

if they have the highest atk lool

[cyan sedge]

well not really, because her heal potency only affects the 2 highest atk

it was not wokring liek this b4 the patch

b4 patch only the 2 highest atk recieved increased healing

[fringe junco]

all they had to do was change 20s into 15s but somehow they fucked the whole skill up

[cyan sedge]

then they also screwed with her s1 somehow too

[wintry ravine]

core hit with jackal + snow white.. now to test with no jackal

[fringe junco]

does it work or no? I can't tell from 1 shot lol

[wintry ravine]

.. "now to test with no jackal"

[molten robin]

same sentence lol

[fringe junco]

oooh

[wintry ravine]

[fringe junco]

lol

[wintry ravine]

nope jackal plus snow white doesn't work

[fringe junco]

fuck

[wintry ravine]

pretty sure her damage boost is only going to work with purely single target bursts

[fringe junco]

yep I think you're right now

[wintry ravine]

on the plus side most jackal teams would probably use dolla which works

and you'd either want pepper which should work or rapunzel who's burst is just a heal anyways

[fringe junco]

but at least she can buff for b2 and b3 I assume

like the debuff does not get eaten up

[molten robin]

pepper is a b1

so you can't jackal and pepper burst

[wintry ravine]

you can because the buff lasts 15 seconds

[fringe junco]

the buff is 15s and you can b3 twice

if fast

[molten robin]

oh does it last that long? didnt even notice lol

[wintry ravine]

so if you use isabel or vesti it's quite easy

[sweet ocean]

jackal/guilty would be beastly

[fringe junco]

mmmh idk if either works

the -5s effect is good but vesti has aoe I think

[molten robin]

so does isabel

[wintry ravine]

yeah sigh

[molten robin]

but I dont think you need either

you can burst again in less than 5s

esp with jackal

[wintry ravine]

you can but with dolla it's very tight

[fringe junco]

ye jackal herself will do the burst regen

but you might need to run 2-1-2?

[wintry ravine]

dolla is -6.6 when stacked if I recall

so leaves you 1.4 secs to get burst

[molten robin]

presumably you will run 2-1-2 to run liter anyways

[wintry ravine]

you could use liter with her yeah

but leaves you healing problem

you could use helm

[fringe junco]

helm works too

[molten robin]

but then do you even want to use jackal burst over liter? seems doubtful

[fringe junco]

well at this point

sounds like all the good characters don't even work with jackal

[sweet ocean]

helm should work since her burst is also purely single target

[wintry ravine]

helm didn't seem to work in my tests

[fringe junco]

oh what

[wintry ravine]

but I'm tired so could be wrong

[fringe junco]

who does work?

from your tests

[wintry ravine]

the videos are up there

[molten robin]

I think jackal is either waiting for a more busted single target burst, or is used for the very strong burst gen in slot 1, with a damage taken/attack debuff

[wintry ravine]

her S1 must boost team damage quite a bit as I tried a pepper team with her vs mordernia and it went pretty well

I got like 8 and a half bars

[fringe junco]

why does jackal's burst even last 15s

[wintry ravine]

yeah it's kinda odd

[sweet ocean]

future units will like that ig

I reckon she'll be a good b1 for bossing in the future

[molten robin]

well the obvious answer is it lasts 15s so you can do as we were discussing, run 2-1-2 and use the other b1 every other cycle

when run with liter you prob just use liter's burst instead, but if paired with strong enough single target bursts, in theory it's a possibility

or if paired with pepper, you get to use pepper every other cycle

I doubt the answer is anything more complicated than that

[fringe junco]

sounds like I will be using neither

[sweet ocean]

eh, not rec in my opinion
pepper's strength lies in the fact that she can use her ridiculous 1k+ nuke on every burst rot

[fringe junco]

just gonna run 1-2-2 or something simple with a healer for actual survivability

[molten robin]

it would need to be paired with other single target bursts, yea

realistically her burst just isnt good

and needs a broken st nuke to pair with it

maybe a future pilgrim

[fringe junco]

we want a b3 that also does burst cd reduction on top of good single target dps

then you chain it all together

[molten robin]

well that isnt strictly necessary

only if you want to use another b1

[fringe junco]

true

that scenario is unlikely anyway

I can't imagine running both liter + jackal is somehow a dps increase

better off running a real dps by replacing 1 of them

[wintry ravine]

just needs a BII with CD reduction and healing

tbh that type of unit is not all that unlikely

[molten robin]

I dont know her buff symbol, but did helm have dolla's attack buff in one of these, but not the other?

[wintry ravine]

oh that is possible

would probably explain the number difference

in that case though jackal isn't doing anything for helm

which is pretty odd

[molten robin]

well only if the latter has the buff and not the former

if the first had it, it could explain why the difference wasnt as big as expected

[wintry ravine]

is there a new table going about with jackals burst gen anyways? How come some people seem to know it?

[sweet ocean]

We have undercover dataminers working overtime

But don't tell the cpp agents

[molten robin]

Well also, she's the same class as anis so it's a reasonable guess

[wintry ravine]

so what is her burst gen figure compared to centi

[molten robin]

Clip reload same reload speed

[molten robin]

Slightly higher (355 per shot instead of 345)

[wintry ravine]

wow so higher than centi

I guess she is really just a centi alternate in the B1 slot

[molten robin]

jackal does not buff modernia

[dull zenith]

rip

[frosty shore]

i did some basic testing

theres still fps damage nerfs

i forgot to add the team in there but i used this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535567112110866462/1062915589921853585/image.png

[sweet ocean]

holy smokes, they decensored K

yes this is related to researching

appreciate the vast amount of fanged gals in this game

[molten robin]

jackal def buffs helm

didnt take screenshots but I went from 218k running lud-centi-helm to 265k running jackal-centi-helm

around 21%, and jackal was lvl 1 which is 21.4% buff

@wintry ravine most likely, you had dolla buff up in your first test, which caused the increase from jackal to be less than the expected %

[wintry ravine]

🤔

interesting, I will test helm again tomorrow

would make sense if she worked

[molten robin]

im sure it works, there's no buffs in my comp

[wintry ravine]

I guess that's some good news

[molten robin]

what's your dolla s1 skill level?

[wintry ravine]

5

12.12%

[molten robin]

yea easy enough to math out, 239066/1.1212 is 213223, and 271181/213223 is ~1.27

so mathematically can see your test compared jackal buffed non-dolla buffed vs dolla buff non jackal

and that jackal buff did apply

[wintry ravine]

hmm I will have to consider investing in helm perhaps

[molten robin]

she's a natural pairing since jackal needs some healing anyways

[sweet ocean]

I wish I could choose like you

this account's elysion seeded

[wintry ravine]

[sweet ocean]

hard f2p too

[wintry ravine]

I always got put off helm cause I figured she wouldn't really heal sup / defenders much at all

but I see people use her in SI teams with no other healing so I guess it works out better than I thought

[molten robin]

it's viable yea

will especially be viable with jackal since that's 3 targets sharing damage

[sweet ocean]

she's actually contributing quite a decent amount of team damage

for a swiss-knife healer

[wintry ravine]

do you use her in SI's?

[sweet ocean]

I do
I don't have enough damage to just speedrun things. Liter's a perma stay in b1 so I can't use Pepper much

[wintry ravine]

well I'm off to bed but tomorrow I'm gonna have to give team comps a good deal of thought. Jury is still out on Jackal for me. She'll get better with future nikke most likely but kinda hard to slot her in atm.. I think

[vernal coral]

Have people already done the math on Quency's buffs vs Guilty? not really sure how to properly factor defense reduction. Thinking Guilty would do more damage herself but given that I tend to run two really strong attackers supported by the other three, Quency seems like she might actually not be a bad option

[molten robin]

quency buffs are pretty meh

decent uptime on the attack buff, but crit damage is a meme

also she's an smg user, so her personal damage and burst generation will be mediocre

[vernal coral]

Yeah, I was thinking those were her downsides as well

the atk is nice but then again, Dolla's pretty similar already

[molten robin]

she does heal every burst for a considerable amount, though restricted to two targets

that seems useful for healing scarlet, but that's it

[vernal coral]

I tend to run 2-1-2 though so I already have a healer there

though Rapunzel's recently been screwed up pretty badly somehow through incompetence

[still drift]

Observed effect is "Taunt".

Sin's skill Description is wrong.

Sin is a Mediocre Pseudotank

[cyan sedge]

guess guilty is last hope

[molten robin]

when her buff is fully stacked, she's actually a good tank, right?

[cyan sedge]

i think this fix somehow affected rapun's s1. idk how they screwed up the hp potency tho

[molten robin]

baseline, she increases max hp by 15% every time she empties her clip, which heals her for the same amount, and has 15.3% vamp - then gains 50% hp potency and 43% defense when she bursts a 2nd and third time

well, she only gets those buffs for 5s when she bursts though

so yea

they need to last longer than 5s for her to be viable so nvm

[molten robin]

can you test guilty attack buffing whether it copies base or buffed attack?

[still drift]

Edit that phrase out, and ye

Guilty Baseline:
600 ATK
Shotgun damage : 231.4% ATK of damage
Expected damage : 1388.4 Damage

wait wtf how do we test shotguns

Inconsistent pellets per range

[molten robin]

their per pellet damage should just be /10

so 138.8

[still drift]

Yeah, but the range damage varies so hard

ah nvm it got buffed

one sec

[molten robin]

the only range modifier should be in range or not, so just hit the same target?

[still drift]

115 no range bonus no buff

Liter : 500 atk
1/1/1

S1 not a variable, we're not bursting 3 times in our testing.

Only Burst.

Burst is 36.3%atk for 5 seconds.

[molten robin]

5/6 * 138.8 is 115.66, so close to expected

a little surprised it didnt round to 116 instead of 115 but close enough

[sweet ocean]

so it's base atk instead of buffed?

[molten robin]

he hasnt presented any numbers on that yet

[still drift]

Guilty's skill copies 4.4% of Ally Attack:

Duplicating BUFFED Attack : 500x(1+0.363+0.044) = 540
Duplicating BASE attack : 500x(1+0.044) = 522

Still calcing

accounting for defense/real shots

115/138 = 0.83 defense

k, time to test

[cyan sedge]

the cdr is from entering Full burst mode. the atk buff is from just using the burst skill

[still drift]

NO

THE RETICLE BLUE

Fuck

redo

[molten robin]

he knows, liter is being used BECAUSE she buffs attack, he's just saying the s1 doesnt matter

because he isnt gonna burst 3 times

[cyan sedge]

oh aight

[still drift]

5 stacks of 4.4 is 22%

Real damage with buff is 199

[molten robin]

she has the liter buff too, right?

[still drift]

oh wait we have to account for guilty's buffed base

yeah

[molten robin]

what's that attack % increase?

[still drift]

36.3 on Liter

wait

time to play

bruh

Might gotta do redo

FUCK

GUILTY'S S2

RIGHT

ah im mald

alright gonna wipe the testing and start over

bricked numbers

[cyan sedge]

would it be easier to just have scarlet and compare dmg with 0 stacks vs 5 stack?

[still drift]

We're trying to isolate guilty's S1

To see if it duplicates Buffed attack or base attack

Liter already the best option for a controlled attack buff

Should be liter ulti and 1 stack on both

Time to play and her S1

Lets just work with those

172 final damage

[molten robin]

1 stack of attack copy?

[still drift]

Yep

Have to subtract 2% tho

Kinda hard

Have to land 6 attacks but dont land 12

You do the math on this one @molten robin

[molten robin]

working on it

not quite adding up

so at this point in time, they both have liter's buff right?

[still drift]

Yeah

Yellow puddle, 3 icons on Guilty, 1 of each buff for sure

Ugh maybe I'll just record it with OBS or something

[molten robin]

unbuffed attack copy I'm getting around 169.6, unbuffed copy around 167

not sure if there's rounding in the game at intervals leading to higher observed result or I'm missing something

but I cant get to 172

[still drift]

DM'ed you the run

[molten robin]

im doing the math wrong anyways, sec

[still drift]

I could consider leveling up the NIkke

it would let us see margins of error better

[molten robin]

ok there's definitely rounding causing an issue

I cant even arrive at the 166 she does before she copies attack, instead mathing slightly higher

[still drift]

FUCKING NIKKE ROUNDING ISSUES

[molten robin]

im assuming it's rounding because of the pellets

but not sure

but yea, if the atack values involved in the test were higher, that'd be better

even with slight rounding we could likely determine which is correct

[still drift]

kk, I'll level her abit and record

Guilty 80 at 4355 Attack

Liter at 3629

[molten robin]

can you rank up guilty's skill too?

the s1

[still drift]

mmk

5.87%

[molten robin]

ok

[still drift]

DM'd

[molten robin]

ok got it

rounding errors went away at these larger values

so two conclusions, one bad one good

[dull zenith]

You guys already have Guilty?

[cyan sedge]

ok that makes sense then

[sweet ocean]

what
that's needlessly complicated

[molten robin]

wait let me double check

[sweet ocean]

I expected base atk only

[molten robin]

math still slightly off

it matches before she copies this time

[still drift]

[molten robin]

hmmm this is so weird

[copper nexus]

guilty skill 1 only copies base attack

doesn't work with buffs

just confirmed it

[molten robin]

the math dosnt match for that either

none of the 3 scenarios seem to match

observed is 1409, expected is 1399.7 if that were true

but if it copied buffed attack it'd be 1417

[barren nexus]

were all the stacks gained after liter buff, or before? or some before and after?

[still drift]

I'll just take Auster's word for it tbh

[still drift]

Stacks gained after popped Liter buff.

Dang, Guilty's value is dimished if its just Base Atk

[molten robin]

yes I've seen auster's videos and scarlet makes it clear it only uses base attack, though the math in the liter video still doesnt add up

maybe shotgun math is just fucked

[barren nexus]

how many stacks is she at?

[molten robin]

1

the liter math lines up if I do 2.3 as her weapon modifier instead of 2.314

[still drift]

Just chalk it up to Rounding issue and delete the problem from your mind

[molten robin]

suspicion: the game only counts to 2 decimal places, and when it does 2.314/10, it sees .23 instead of .2314

[still drift]

Nah, they definitely count to maybe 4/5? decimal places depending on the application

[dull zenith]

That's got to be some super custom and expensive to operate on float value

[still drift]

There was penalty decimal issue

and it was inconsistent too.

Not sure if I have the image anymore

[molten robin]

yea I'll stop malding about it lol

either way we have the point, which is it only copies base

of that I agree with auster

the scarlet test was clearer because it didnt depend on math

still, copying attack is better than increasing her own attack, pound for pound

[violet siren]

guilty being a worse rupee with a garbage burst is a hard pill to swallow

should’ve let her s1 take into account buffed atk stats otherwise what’s the point of getting her except for maybe shotgun cheese on solo boss stages

[molten robin]

it's not clear to me her self attack buff is worse than rupee's

it would be interesting to see real scenario breakdowns

[dull zenith]

Guilty is a shotgun ssr that stacks +atk on herself 5 times. That by itself is already great.

[molten robin]

also does the attack she gains benefit from attack buffs like liter's? since the math we were doing earlier was unclear I cant say

[violet siren]

i mean her being shotgun is def a plus, but even if it’s just base atk, even w her s2 and taking the base atk of a pilgrim like scarlet with the extra 10 bond levels etc. it would not get on par percentage wise with rupee

still going for her tho 💀 also doesn’t help that wind ally’s with stackable buffs is basically pepper and that’s it. epinel is useless in boss/st fights and that’s the only time guiltys burst is good

[molten robin]

well with equal investment sure, but dont think she's something you'd invest in like a scarlet

and if it adds to base attack, it's better than normal because it's increased by attack buffs

[frosty shore]

Anyone have a mod to remove damage numbers showing up ?

[copper nexus]

Rupee definitely seems better in general stages but guilty is looking good for boss/close range. Which is nothing surprising lol

[molten robin]

do we know any SI boss defenses?

[copper nexus]

Uhh

[quick vector]

all 13121 def

[still drift]

Quency at 220p.

Switched to Sin.

[fringe junco]

the quest resets?

you had a different quest before

[still drift]

Oh

You're right.

Lemme check if I can just keep swapping for rerolling

Swapped to Guilty and back to Quency :

Missions change.

[fringe junco]

very nice

[still drift]

Once you hit a milestone, just game for a full 90 points

[fringe junco]

we can use this at times at the start of milestones

[still drift]

Yep.

[native bane]

so do equipment attributes really stack now?

[still drift]

I'm going to bed

But I'd take Shiftups word for it tbh

They fixed like 90% of the bugs

[fringe junco]

there´s max ammo 50%

stack it up to 4x?

sounds OP

scarlet 80 ammo lol

[still drift]

Okay one more research...

Gimme a few

Expected : 40

Ight

bed time

[fringe junco]

so it works

[final pebble]

ma man delay bed for ammo

[fringe junco]

it's time to wake up

yes wow

scarlet gets 88 ammo with the 85.34% on 4 pieces

at that point you probably don't care about ammo or reload

to me this seems like something they could nerf

doesn't seem intended to stack that much ammo from gear

[native bane]

I like how it worked before tbh

[fringe junco]

elemental advantage buff

stacking that 4x

29.16 x 4 = 116% more dmg

that sounds ludicrous considering it's a multiplier in the dmg formula

in the most literal sense doubles your damage

[sweet ocean]

are normal shots non-elemental?

[high kindle]

Against 1 element so not that op

[fringe junco]

this is what would open the doors to countering elements

and yes it is that OP

[mild dirge]

im getting censored harder than tencent censored xrupee in here

[still drift]

Shoo, back to your own section

[sharp herald]

how does duplicate hp works? Does it work the same way as noise where it acts like a pseudo heal?

[sweet ocean]

@sharp heraldaus confirmed that Guilty's atk dupe works with base unbuffed atk, so I'm gonna assume HP duping works with base HP too

[sharp herald]

wording is still quite ambiguous for the hp% to me. Does it copy max hp or the current hp. Like for example if the highest hp ally has 10k base, but they are at 5k in battle, would a 10% hp duplicate heal for 1k or 500?

[sweet ocean]

is the wording different compared to guilty's atk dupe wording in any way?

[sharp herald]

i don't think so, but i haven't seen a test of duplicate atk when facing atk down debuff

[dull zenith]

zHow?

[mild dirge]

rayel censored me

for posting t11 equipment

[wintry ravine]

there is t11 equipment?

[still drift]

Why must you guys do this in a research channel

[still drift]

They're memeing around.

[wintry ravine]

ah

[still drift]

Why must I keep wiping the thread always derailing from research

[mild dirge]

oh ok sorry - yeah theres no t11 i was just trolling

[molten robin]

Guilty ignores attack buffs, so why would she not ignore attack debuffs?

Power penalty being a possible exception

[wintry ravine]

so I got bored and was messing around with liter and decided to test her a bit

am I wrong or is the max ammo part of her skill one kinda shit?

from what I can tell it only actually does anything for your ammo if you happen to reload within that 5 second timeframe?

[molten robin]

well yea

it doesnt do much

[wintry ravine]

[molten robin]

and when it expires, if you have more ammo than your unbuffed max you lose the extra

but it's free when it happens to line up

[wintry ravine]

dear god that is shit

I wonder what the average time between reloads is accross all nikkes

probably something like 8-10 seconds I would guess

[molten robin]

less for shotguns I know

not sure about others

shotguns are 6s to empty

[wintry ravine]

I guess you could do rough averages for how often liters ammo buff actually affects each weapon type

if shotguns are 6 seconds her ammo buff will at least give them a few extra shots before a reload most of the time

for other weapon types it probably only works like 50%ish of the time I guess

[molten robin]

@wintry ravine was it you who was doing the 100% reload speed/charge speed alice testing in the past?

[wintry ravine]

nope

[molten robin]

need to check who that was

since she got changed to do 350% charge damage instead of 100% at full charge speed reduction now

@keen timber have you redone your alice testing recently?

[vernal coral]

Liter's extra ammo works well for machine gunners at least

the clip size relative to reload period is much smaller so overlap is often

it also seems to be slightly bugged with Modernia, I need to test it a bit more but she had ammo bug with it again even though the earlier tests said it only works on Liter herself when I was doing SI

[keen timber]

Not recently, no. Put my Alice investment on hold so I can focus on putting a team together for Alteisen phase 9.

I do want to look into it again though since we can stack max ammo on OL gear now

[frosty shore]

modernia triggers the ammo bug by herself if you let her stacks drop

[vernal coral]

So it seems that if the unit may have the capability to do it themselves then they're susceptible to it from other sources perhaps?

still haven't had a chance to test but curious if it's something already known

[still drift]

From the way it seems like, definitely seems like a global Max Ammo issue

[barren nexus]

yeah there's a really annoying situation where modernia gets her reload reset by liter buff falling off, and then gets it reset again by her own buff falling off

which can happen if there's no enemy to hit for a while following a full burst, such as when you kill some mobs and have to wait for the stage boss to spawn in

[dull zenith]

@copper nexus

If you place Emma in P1, Scarlet in P2, and Jackal in P5, every single hit on the three units will trigger: a 5% chance for a team-wide heal, a 30% chance for high damage attack + 45 energy, and a count towards 10 hits taken for 355 energy (essentially 35.5 energy per hit).
Isn't this only true if Emma and Scarlet have the highest attack on your team?

For Scarlet, that is easy, but Emma?

Nvm you clarified later that is the case. The way you worded that sounds like her s2 was bugged in arena such that as long as you place units in those positions, that's where her dmg share goes to.

[cyan sedge]

About those on hit skills like emma s1 and scarlet s2, does each shotgun pellet have a chance to trigger them? So like each shot is 10 pellets so 10 chances to trigger per shot?

[copper nexus]

Thanks for bringing this up. Confirmed that yes, each pellet counts as a separate hit so jackal will always out-speed shotguns

[copper nexus]

I'll fix the wording so it is more clear

[dull zenith]

Uhm.... SI Gravedigger is impossible because of circle bug where one circle cannot be destroyed

Every other circle phase, starting with the first one, one circle is immortal

[sharp herald]

so it is a bug then

[slow pulsar]

It's normal for me..

[barren nexus]

There were indeed invincible circles in my runs but they seemed random when they occurred

[cyan sedge]

It seems to happen to the first set of red circles and then every other set after

[barren nexus]

It definitely didn't always happen to the first set of circles to me, although it did happen sometimes

so there may be some factor that causes variance.

[sweet ocean]

Confirmed. I'm getting an unbreakable circle myself too

No wonder it's harder than usual even with Isabel's debuff fix

precisely 3rd set from the start one of the circles will be unkillable

[still drift]

Confirming a rumor :

Complete, now turning in.

Now swapping to another target and back.

Send 2 Gift(s) is already complete. Not turning in, and swapping once more.

As expected, 3/6.

[final pebble]

[still drift]

Bad info, myth disproven ||also wasted my time gg||

[willow pecan]

It's a Rayel shame

[pearl parcel]

Damn pun

[fringe junco]

that dude didn't realize it himself but he was 5/6

if you swap out and back in again beyond 3/6 so at 4/6 or 5/6 then your only get 2 or 1 remaining missions and you just wasted the previous that got completed

my dumbass did that one time lol

[vernal coral]

Modernia burst can break them btw

only hers though

[dull zenith]

[dim wolf]

Lmao, I should have tried

[copper nexus]

Has anyone done any research on hit rate?

[dull zenith]

What are you trying to find out?

[gilded plover]

Does anyone know if a core up provides a larger Stat boost compared to a limit break? I'm currently deciding if I should core up a current 3 star or limit break another nikke on my main team.

[copper nexus]

1. Exact affects of N% hit rate on each weapon
2. Differences of hit rate by range
3. DPS gain of N% hit rate on each weapon for each range

[dull zenith]

^ @molten robin I summon thee

[vernal coral]

Hmm. I could post the sequence for modernia but I think I have too many variables for it to be of use - level/bond changed in between for most steps

but I believe last discussion on this it was said lb > core

core is 2% to base stats which includes bond bonuses. I'm.m not dure if it includes previous core bonus stats in those though

[copper nexus]

Core bonus does not count as part of base stats

[tender summit]

I think I have formula for stats, but I’m lazy af

Also, no, base stats is base stats

Core is just some addtional multiplier

[barren nexus]

@gilded plover some pics for science

I took these a while ago because I was interested in the same question

i have 3 more charas I took these ss's for if you're interested

[copper nexus]

Anyone here playing on one of the newer IOS devices?

[native bane]

iPhone 12 pro max

recent enough?

[copper nexus]

Ah no worries, I got help from someone else :) Thanks though

[native bane]

Is it possible to get the same substat twice on a single gear piece?

and btw are "technical/end game" questions even allowed here

[still drift]

General questions can be answered in #questioning-centre
This is mainly reserved for people doing in-depth testing, math, and theory.

[still drift]

Also, no.

[still drift]

Just leaving this here to prove that : Yes, RNG can play a huge factor in how PvP battles can play out, due to targeting, burst gen, crit, and stuns can heavily influence a win.
It's never set in stone whether a comp can win.
Even a bad comp can sometimes win.
Good comps can in rare circumstances lose.

Didnt look at stats for my first fight.

[fringe junco]

good info thanks

[barren nexus]

Here are some Snow White findings:

Q: Does Snow White's Burst benefit from an Assault Rifle's effective range bonus?
A: YES, see Image 1 below for data and methodology.
Implications: Snow White's burst will deal more damage when targeting enemies within an Assault Rifle's effective range.

Q: Under what conditions will Snow White's gain the effect of her S2 critical strike rate buff?
A: When Snow White's S2 is off-cooldown, it will activate and attempt to deal damage. If, at the moment of activation, Snow White is currently in Full Burst, then she will gain the 10s critical strike rate buff.
Implications: The description of Snow White's S2 is highly misleading, gaining her S2 critical strike is not affected by her normal attacks in any way, shape or form. It is only dependent on whether or not the damage portion of her S2, Seven Dwarves: V & VI, activates during Full Burst Mode or not. This means that if Full Burst Mode is entered within 5 seconds after Seven Dwarves: V & VI has activated, then Snow White will not gain the effect of her S2 at all. Similarly, this means that if Snow White wants her Burst to benefit from the effect of her S2, you want to burst within 5 seconds before Seven Dwarves: V & VI activates.
Example: The encounter timer of the shooting range is 1:30. Then Snow White's first activation of Seven Dwarves: V & VI will be at 1:14. If you enter full burst at 1:19, Snow White will not gain the critical strike rate buff of Seven Dwarves: V & VI, regardless of whether or not she is shooting or charging her burst. Then at 1:14, if Snow White is still in Full Burst Mode, she will gain the effect of Seven Dwarves: V & VI for 10 seconds onwards, regardless of whether or not she is shooting or charging her burst. Similarly, if you enter full burst at 1:13, then Snow White will not gain the effect of Seven Dwarves: V & VI throughout 1:13-1:00. Then at 0:59, Seven Dwarves: V & VI will attempt to activate, and if Snow White is still under the effect of Full Burst Mode (due to Modernia or similar effect), then she will gain the critical strike rate buff for 10 seconds onwards.

Q: Do the effects of Neon's S2 or Helm's S1 increase the critical strike strike of Snow White's Burst?
A: YES, see Image 2 below for data.
Implications: It is highly probable that when a character with a burst which changes their weapon (Snow White, Maxwell) attacks with their burst weapon, said attack is considered a Normal Attack and will benefit from any effects that modify normal attacks. Similarly, it is possible (but not confirmed) that said attack itself is not considered Burst Damage. Further testing would be required to verify these conclusions.

Q: What is the base critical strike chance of Snow White?
A: A Chinese website reported 15% as the base critical strike rate for all Nikkes, but testing in 3 separate experiments with 50 samples each showed a bias of +2.33%, +2.63%, and +3.94% critical strike rate respectively. This suggests that during testing (which were all Core-Hits at Effective Range during Full Burst Mode in the shooting range), there is a strong possibility that the base critical strike of a Snow White (no overload gear) was biased upwards, which indicates that it is possible either the base critical strike is higher than reported by said website, or there is a confounding variable which increases critical strike rate.
Implications: Does anyone know what base critical strike chance is? This one stumped me and I didn't want to record a video of Snow White constantly normal attacking to test it...

Also if you're having trouble viewing image 1 or 2, try opening them in browser, I think discord on mobile can fuck up their resolution

[vernal coral]

35 to 36: 820
36 to 37: 840
37 to 38: 870
38 to 39: 900
39 to 40: 920

I have a lot of 20s as well, let me go check that

14 to 15: 440
15 to 16: 450
16 to 17: 470
17 to 18: 480
18 to 19: 500
19 to 20: 510
20 to 21: 530
21 to 22: 540
22 to 23: 560
23 to 24: 580
24 to 25: 590
25 to 26: 610
26 to 27: 630
27 to 28: 650
28 to 29: 670
29 to 30: 690

@native bane

You're welcome~

I can grab up to 20 while at it actually

editing together

I may as well fill in the other slots I can as well

2 to 3: 310
3 to 4: 320
4 to 5: 330
5 to 6: 340
6 to 7: 350
7 to 8: 360
8 to 9: 370
9 to 10: 380

@native bane

that should give you everything except 30~35

You're welcome~ I might have a scree ny of one of those missing, give me w sec..

31 to 32: 730

[barren nexus]

isn't this chart already on Nikke.gg?

nikke.gg/advise

[vernal coral]

no idea, didn't look lol

[native bane]

yes and I feel dumb now

guess ill delete my messages then sorry @vernal coral and thanks

[tender summit]

[edgy wedge]

RoF test on LDPlayer
can you view this video? I think I can if downloaded

on iPhone12Pro

[copper nexus]

Yes I can download them thanks

I'll go over them tmrw

[dull zenith]

I think you can see ROF difference in the rate subtitles are displayed on iPhone vs. emulator

The subtitles letters appear at a faster rate on the former

[edgy wedge]

I just installed millisecond extension for VLC

25159(the time last bullet hits and reload text popped up) - 18888(the time it snapped to the enemy) = 6271ms
17574-11433=6141ms
so around 6.2 second for LDPlayer

iPhone12Pro
25428-19303=6125ms
32767-26779=5988ms

btw the second number is the frame of the video and third is video length by second

seems like they will try to fix anyway
but hard to fix cuz it's the core of damage calculation(per frame(should currently be this one) or deltaTime(which should make all device same DPS)) but it's one of their goal to fix
These issues include: different device models having different damage output, Grave Digger's attack cannot be intercepted in the Interception, the infinite loading during PVP under certain circumstances, and the resurrection skills of Rapunzel and Anne: Miracle Fairy at 1 HP etc. We are investigating the current cause(s) of these issues and will resolve these as soon as possible.

[frosty shore]

well im glad they acknowledged that the device fps problem exists

Its another thing if they fix it properly

[still drift]

Red tokens appear to be working as expected for 0 battles fought so far.

Account still may be ineligible for rewards according to dev notice if this account doesn't initiate a VS.

Hasn't moved from Rank 1, 12 hours in.

[barren nexus]

I can confirm I received 3k gems today and I was Rank 1 the entire season, no attacks since I couldn't attack anyone

[stable kindle]

@still drift I've seen new notification from Dev.
Where the requirement is updated to "... at least claim the Red Coins once during the season."

[clear vector]

Yeah

The "or claim" line

[still drift]

Do we just chalk this up as another "KR translation" moment?

OLD MESSAGE FOR REFERENCE

[fringe junco]

yep

[clear vector]

Seems like that. Even the Japanese translation is full

[molten robin]

@vapid geode you claim in your viper review that she targets a random nikke with vamp, but she appears to only target herself with it

7 retries in firing range, and she hit herself 7 times

the "excludes 1 ally unit" description appears to be using that language because it's a description of what vamp does, but she applies it to herself

[still drift]

@molten robin Can you nab me a screenshot of Viper and her ally with effects active for reference?

[molten robin]

so you want 5 screenshots, one of each nikke's list of buffs?

[still drift]

Huh, so her S2 is dead in the water as well?

The wording on her skillset is extremely misleading.

[molten robin]

by itself...it does nothing, yes

presumably we can have interesting synergies in the future with more units that have vamp or can provide it

for example, what happens when 5 units have vamp? nothing they wrote on it seems to exclude the possibility

or 4 with vamp can create a pseudo-taunt on a unit that has high defense/healing but lacks taunt

[barren nexus]

Does anyone know the valkkin who wrote this guide: https://nikke.gg/detailed-guide-for-snow-white/

because this first sentence on her S2 sounds very misleading:

This skill activates when you have dealt an instance of damage during full burst. It may have good synergy with her burst however, as said, the skills passve does not activate unless a single instance of damage have been dealt after full burst activation.
EDIT: it is clarified later down the explanation, although it is still subtly wrong

reread it, it's just the first sentence that threw me off at "the skills passve does not activate unless a single instance of damage have been dealt after full burst activation" which was non-specific
EDIT: after re-reading AGAIN, author seems to be under the wrong impression of how this skill activates ("passive" is also typo'd)

I was also going to mention adding this stuff I found: #1042458757843656774 message

[molten robin]

I dont know who valkinn is, but you can ping @copper nexus for stuff like this if you dont know the person

[barren nexus]

Namely the one about her burst having effective range bonus vs parts in AR bonus range, and that Helm's S1 does in fact work on her burst

oh wait the S2 is actually still wrong

Therefore technically fulfilling the requirements of dealing an instance of damage to activate the critical buff.

Okay so the author of the guide is clearly under the impression that the skill can activate under normal attacks of Snow White- it can't. That's the part that's wrong

The correct description is that the ONLY way to activate the skill's buff is via doing damage with the active portion.

@copper nexus In the Snow White guide here https://nikke.gg/detailed-guide-for-snow-white/, the author seems to think Snow White's S2 crit buff can activate on normal attacking during a full burst- it cannot. The only way it can activate is as they described here:

This renders this skills passive useless unless activate full burst at around 0:15 marks (0:15, 0:30, 0:45), and after the active part of the skill “[Target] Deals 144.73% of ATK as damage.” has landed on a target.

I think this description can also use some work because assuming full uptime. the skill actually activates at T-15*N-1, where T is the total encounter time in seconds and N is a natural number. If T is not divisible by 15, then 0 isn't an appropriate reference point. It also assumes that the skill does not drift due to being off cooldown while the screen is cleared of enemies (I haven't tested if that is possible however, but admittedly that is a niche situation).

They have two misleading sentences that suggest their misconception:

This skill activates when you have dealt an instance of damage during full burst. It may have good synergy with her burst however, as said, the skills passve does not activate unless a single instance of damage have been dealt after full burst activation.
Too vague because single instance of damage is non-specific. In reality, this single instance of damage can only be the active damage portion of Skill 2: Seven Dwarves: V & VI, it does not include Snow White's normal attacks and cannot proc via them. This means the buff is never gained outside of the precise scenario the author described, whereas their explanation suggests they believe otherwise.
Therefore technically fulfilling the requirements of dealing an instance of damage to activate the critical buff.
Suggests that the non-specificness of the previous sentence was intentional.

Also additions I'd like to suggest from my findings above:

• Helm's S1 does in fact buff Snow White's Burst
• Snow White's Burst benefits from an AR's effective range bonus
• ^ this specifically has applications in alteisien, because the train's left side turrets and the train itself are in AR effective range, but the missile launcher is not

[still drift]

Yeah, no clue who he is. Auster's problem now.

[meager elbow]

tldr SW S2's CR buff activate when she uses S2 during FB

[vapid geode]

Yeah, but imo it works like that - she applies the buff to herself and as long as she has it, one random ally can't be targeted. Then once she is hit, the buff vanishes.

Still, no random ally gets any buff related to that so we don't know who is being protected.

This could be another bug.

But yeah, another possibility is that the skill is just translated by pepegas and she is doing a reverse taunt, but that would be kinds stupid - if it's reverse taunt, then she won't ever get hit and the buff won't ever be removed (unless aoe)

[barren nexus]

I mean I can test ir right now

I'll just go into shooting range w/ viper and see if there is any scenario where she gets hit during vamp

prob will take several attempts but I have the time

[pearl parcel]

@jaunty socket

This thread

[jaunty socket]

ooh this one

[vapid geode]

Shooting Range isn't really best way to test stuff, but if you have the time, you can do it.

[pearl parcel]

We have the best researchers here

[vapid geode]

Overall it's important that the skill description mentions

That it affects her

Not other allies

As in the buff should only appear on her

[barren nexus]

idk shooting range seems like a p acceptable way to collect data points for this mechanic tho?

[barren nexus]

not sure what way would be better

[vapid geode]

So buff always appears on her -> and if she has it one random ally (we don't known who) won't be able to be targeted.

[still drift]

I'm almost certain if it did have an effect on another ally, it would show up as a buff on the ally.

[barren nexus]

That's one interpretation of the wording, but it could easily mean it only affects the person who has the vamp buff

Interpretation of wording is never a strong indication of a mechanic, e.g. Snow White's S2

Jackal's burst recently also comes to mind

[vapid geode]

Yeah, but the trigger of the skill mentions - affects self.

So it won't ever appear on anyone else.

[barren nexus]

yes but that doesn't imply the effect affects someone else

or rather, it's not strong evidence

[vapid geode]

Triggers are usually working as they should. The skill itself usually is what is broken in the game.

So now the skill is doing what the description says.

She gets a buff

But what happens after, we have no fucking idea

As the ally mentioned in the description isn't marked in any way.

[meager elbow]

If shooting range doesn't contain raptures with aoe skill. During vamp we can see who is getting attacked.

[vapid geode]

Yeah, but there are too many variables:

• we don't know which ally gets the buff,
• mobs ai are doing random stuff

You could try testing it with just Viper and 1 other ally

[barren nexus]

The issue that ppl are having is the assumption that 1 other ally doesn't just mean herself, the point of the testing is to confirm whether or not this is the case, not a presupposition that it works that way

[meager elbow]

i want to help but i don't have her

[barren nexus]

in any case I'm testing it in shooting range

[vapid geode]

The skill would be pointless if it meant herself. Because it means the she gets 10 second reverse taunt that can be broken by aoe attacks, so it's even more useless than it is now.

Still it's a possibility

I will check kr and jpn description once I get on pc

[still drift]

I swear if this is another translation issue...

[vapid geode]

Overall - in both cases the skill is useless lol

[barren nexus]

right but I wouldn't put it past them to design a skill that's useless, I think it being random is arguebly even more useless since u can't even control it at that point

at least if it targets herself, there's potential to save some HP and let other attacker units lifesteal off helm for example

but if it's totally random then it's extra useless because it's not even predictable

at least in my pov

in any case here's the test I'm setting up:

• Liter
• Viper
• Privaty

I enter full burst with Privaty so that enemies are stunned on full burst

then for 7s I can observe who gets attacked

I'll do this multiple times

bc there is clearly an issue where raptures who already have an attack targetted at viper when entering burst STILL ATTACK HER and remove the vamp effect

Clearly this skill seems extra useless if it targets an ally bc she instantly takes damage from another attack and loses the vamp buff

done 2 trials so far, now on 3rd, both times viper was not attacked after enemies were unstunned

while privaty and liter were, which happened again in the 3rd trial

I'm gonna do this like 25 times or so

[vapid geode]

Fucking reverse Taunt

So now it looks like the more useless version of the skill

Is correct

[vapid geode]

[barren nexus]

Here's the methodolgy: Liter, Viper, Privaty on full auto burst, in that order. Landscape mode. On encounter start, I swap to viper in the middle to have full view of liter and privaty. Then when privaty activates her burst, I manual cover all units. then I see whose cover flashes red. In trials 1-8, it is always liter and privaty, never viper, if Viper has the buff.

however in trial 9, viper took damage in the middle of an attack while entering full burst, which lasted past the invincibiliy window. Causing her to instantly lose the buff!

[vapid geode]

You know they need to hire someone else to write the skill description

[barren nexus]

she was not targeted for attacks in that trial but in any case I could confirm the buff was dispelled according to pause screen and the visual effect

[vapid geode]

Because this is just fucking stupid

I will update the review once I'm back on my pc and thanks for the testing!

[barren nexus]

np

um I would say this skill is kinda extra useless because without privaty, I noticed that attacks that are ALREADY TARGETTED ON VIPER still attack her (I think)

[still drift]

Almost guarenteed some intern is doing the translation
"Helletic" is used as Heretic a significant portion of the story.

[barren nexus]

so like, you'll enter vamp, and then the attack that was channeling towards her goes off and just knocks her out of vamp 2 seconds later...

same goes for if projectiles are already in the air

[vapid geode]

Yeah, this was mentioned in the post they did about how the skill works. That any attack already started will break the effect.

[vapid geode]

[barren nexus]

At that point it doesn't even matter how the effect works, it literally gets dispelled instantly the vast majority of the time?

anyway skill is useless no matter how I look at it

Screenshot of what the test looked like

tbh I could take a vod but I'd have to move to my emulator, I was doing all of this on phone

[meager elbow]

That why it has 1s protection but just 1s

[barren nexus]

anyway imo always doubt the interpretation of skills until tested, just as a general rule, esp in this game where a lot of skills are misleading like SW's S2 and Jackal's burst

I used to do this kind of unit testing in genshin so I'm p familiar with trying to uncover jank mechanics

[barren nexus]

Yeah also Cecil is referred to using male pronouns the entire time, despite JP voicelines p clearly using 彼女 ("kanojo" = "she/her") when dorothy/harran are speaking

the props I will give them is using "Chatterbox" over "Talkative"

but then they used "Vapaus" instead of "Unchained" which leaves me kinda jarred

[still drift]

This one is more easily explained tbh.
There are alot of indications that the VAs and TL's don't actually see anything besides the lines they're given, and Cecil is an androgynous name. Could slip through QA.

Its a KR game, so it would be a KR to EN TL. Maybe a sign of machine translation, since its stripping pronouns regardless, I know its common in JP to EN TL.

[barren nexus]

Usually the reason JP to EN TL results in incorrect pronouns is bc JP doesn't use pronouns very often, instead just leaving them implied or just saying the person's name, so then MTL (at least Google Translate) just inserts in 'He' as an inferred subject inside of a complex sentence.

but at least in this case it's kinda funny to me that the actual, explicit usage of "She" was not translated properly.

[still drift]

Took Tencent money, still don't have budget for a good TL team

[barren nexus]

I think they are trying to localize to some extent tho, I noticed in Ch20 there were a lot of times where the translators put their interpretation of Dorothy's lines in the text instead of actually what she literally says.

The other jarring thing about EN TL vs JP dub is that a single complex line from a character that's separated into two or more text boxes will often be displayed in the reverse order in english, so the audio and text don't match.

[willow pecan]

is novel burst fixed yet or? I recall there was some research going on about that but don't remember the conclusion

[clear vector]

I still remember their twitter calls HP as blood volume...

[molten robin]

It worked, I know they mentioned a fix but I hadn't seen scenarios where it didn't work

It was probably niche

[dull zenith]

Did you guys test Guilty's attack copy? I recall seeing testing done somewhere that suggested it didn't copy Scarlet's attack stacks, only base attack

[still drift]

Yeah, Auster and someone else did.

[molten robin]

It also does not itself benefit from buffs

At least, from the one example I saw excluding the liter test

I never did get the liter math to work

[molten robin]

I'd assume it does, but has anyone verified if the charge speed increase from overload gear acts the same as charge speed increases from Alice, Maxwell etc and stack additively?

[barren nexus]

I would

https://tenor.com/view/if-i-had-one-angry-yelling-fairly-odd-parents-mr-turner-gif-16322274

[molten robin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjy8laZOZmg

either A. she can still be chosen as the target and if her s2 is up it just skips, or probably more likely B. he targets a certain amount of time before launching the barrage, and if the s2 goes up between her being targeted and the start of the barrage, it just skips

it isnt clear which is the case from this video

[molten robin]

that doesn't provide any additional clarification, right?

[still drift]

Nope 😄

I could ask

[molten robin]

unless he has more footage of other attempts

[still drift]

I already ran through my attempts, and I'm doubtful he does anymore either.

[molten robin]

it's hard to prove A, but it can be disproven if we see a skip where she had her s2 up earlier

err reverse that

hard to disprove, but easily proven

if for example the s2 goes up more like 4-6s before the barrage would happen

and we see a skip

I think it'd be safe to assume it's A instead of B

[still drift]

but honestly; this is just some cope for the non-Centi havers who can't take care of missiles.
I'm not going to invest time onto Viper.

Also Auster is MIA so it's not going to be news for many players.

[molten robin]

oh yea I mean you dont even need centi, there's plenty of ways to deal with missiles

I think the underlying mechanic is interesting though

would be interesting to see if it applies to other bosses like blacksmith, train etc

[tender summit]

Centi is just a way to deal with groundpound attack

[still drift]

You could deal with it by having healers and such, but I value consistency over anything for SI.
I don't want to be malding for 30+ mins getting a clear when I can do it 1 shot with Centi and Laplace.

This is why I always look into "auto" clears with minimal skill and intervention from the player.

[molten robin]

you dont even need a healer or centi to deal with pounds tbh, just rng

but yea like you said, it can be a mald

[tender summit]

Yeah, I prefer sacrifice t9 run to bring out centi

[still drift]

I mean this only applies if you're lacking DPS.
Ill advised to be pulling Viper to solve this.

[molten robin]

but it'll be interesting to see the entirety of what vamp can do when it comes to avoiding mechanics

esp as we get more

this doesn't look like it'll be a one-off mechanic

[meager elbow]

It’d be funny if viper in middle position could burst before the first jump

Also when the test sever is on i’d like someone to test if Soda keeps healing with her S1

[tender summit]

Test server nuked

[molten robin]

what should happen, is she will heal each time she gains a stack, up to 10 times, and once fully stacked it will have to fall off

they just standardized the mechanic so I doubt she will be different

[cyan sedge]

decided to test other non burst skills that dont deal dmg. iDoll Flower's s2 will generate burst gauge despite not dealing dmg like Jackal s1

so i guess as long as it targets an enemy, a skill will generate energy. it could be a dmg dealing or debuff skill

[molten robin]

Good to know it isn't isolated to jackal

Though it's primarily relevant for SR or RL units since they generate the most per shot

[clear vector]

About arena, I dont think the attack order is random. Though I cannot guess how the AI works

[static apex]

isnt it from left to right? (or right to left when you attack your enemy)

unless there are taunts affecting the targeting

[molten robin]

https://nikke.gg/arena-mechanics/ includes a section on targeting, this definitely is not all there is, but it explains a majority of scenarios

[clear vector]

Nah. My right nikke got attacked first

It can be left to right or right to left

The article says at random

[still drift]

Between left to right OR right to left, at random.

[clear vector]

But I think there is sometimes to determine it

I know Rayel. Just lazy to typo the whole

[still drift]

data connection slow

[clear vector]

When I play rookie

My team 100% gets targeted from left to right

It is because I fight to the same person and the same team

It can be slightly diff tho

[static apex]

yeah

but its mostly left on my experience

[molten robin]

something doesnt have to be 50/50 in order to be random

randomness represents what we dont know

and afaik, we have no clue what causes left vs right targeting, or exactly how often either happens

[static apex]

yeah that make sense

[clear vector]

Ik. But there should be at least an odd

Like I just said

[clear vector]

.

Someone told me shotgun team targeted from right to left

Ig it is enough for me

[molten robin]

how ae you gonna state odds you dont know?

[clear vector]

I didn't mean that

As long as it was not 100%

The case is not "unknown odd"

[molten robin]

sure it is

you cant say "oh yea well for ME, I always get targeted left to right when fighting the same 2-3 people so the odds are 100%" because that's not how things work

obviously people see and experience right to left targeting

which means it is not 100%

[clear vector]

...

Actually we dont use the same reference system here

[willow pecan]

I for one have fought the exact same people, exact same comp, and gotten both left to right and right to left at an unknown frequency

[clear vector]

Now that is interesting

[molten robin]

even it that werent the case, say it never varied same comp vs same comp, and 70% of comps target left to right, and 30% of comps target right to left

that would still be random targeting

random does not imply the odds are 50/50, nor does it imply there is variance against the same target

[clear vector]

Im not 5 yo
I know it can be not 50/50.

I would agree without doubt if my odd wasn't 100%

[molten robin]

it is not my intention to accuse you of being 5, I'm simply explaining why it is being described as random, and no odds have been given