Research Dungeon

[dull zenith]

Why is it funny? The way the skill is worded, that's exactly what I hoped and expected

[vapid geode]

that's only because the cube buff appears in the buff list

so it clears the condition

[dull zenith]

Perfectttt

Pulling on Modernia also gave me Scarlet, Harran, and Isabel

Now which two to use...

Probably Scarlet and Modernia

[dim wolf]

I would use Scarlet Harran Modernia

[dull zenith]

Sure in 1-1-3 setups, but I mostly use 2-1-2 or 1-2-2

But maybe now is the time to use 1-1-3 more cuz my luck

[dim wolf]

ye

if you dont die, 1-1-3 is the best

[atomic gyro]

@dim wolf Shhhhhhhhhh

Copy pasting is hard

[dim wolf]

[dull zenith]

Modernia's FB hits two targets at most at once, right?

[dim wolf]

?

no

there's no limit

[willow mulch]

@cyan raft man city with a draw against Everton...in their own stadium

Arsenal fans having a field day currently with the gap between them widen

[cyan raft]

First wrong chat lol, second emptihad momnet

[willow mulch]

Ayo wtf

[willow mulch]

I thought I was in #general-chat

Moving there

[sweet ocean]

apparently mord's the shooting range queen

beating out scarlet very easily

[vernal coral]

agreed

but since she loses damage in full burst most of the time, better to let Scarlet be primary B3

[vapid geode]

Modernia so far:

• in normal stages - in on par with Harran, but often deals more damage than her
• in bosses that have normal mobs - is also really good, Scarlet level
• in bosses that are solo - here she is okayish at best, because if she Bursts, her single target damage falls down. But you can use her in 1-1-3 formation as last spot, so she doesn't Burst at all and that way her damage is good on single bosses too.

Also, always use Hit Rate cube on her - you can abuse it and always activate her ATK self-buff on S2 as the cube buff is listed in her buff list.

Those are initial observations after the few hours

[spare pine]

i know laplace's laser has pierce, but damn

[vernal coral]

Not sure how she fares in Arena burst

[molten robin]

And Laplace ignores defense

[sweet ocean]

I heard on burst she only hits 2 in arena@vernal coral

[spare pine]

is someone going to test moder vs chatterbox later

personally i dont think she can outdmg laplace tho

laplace is just too good against him

[dull zenith]

Laplace is single target, Modernia is multitarget

Both suck at the other

[molten robin]

Except Laplace does amazing damage against multiple parts lol

Not truly ST

And modernia doesn't suck at ST, she actually has very competitive ST

[vapid geode]

yeah, it's not bad

it's just good at best

[dull zenith]

Do you think spending tix+gems trying to mlb Modernia is worth it? Or should one save for future units (incl. future pilgrims?)

I can't math and #1049651485086060584 is full of different opinions

[atomic gyro]

Just one is enough

You're trying to MLB a 1% chance pull

Lkekl

[dim wolf]

definitely not worth it

[dull zenith]

True, but she'll go down to either 0.08333% or 0.07142857%

[dim wolf]

unless you're a whale and have shitton of spare mileage

[atomic gyro]

Consider how difficult it is to MLB a regular SSR

[dull zenith]

Okay thanks guys. This is the coolheaded advice I needed

[atomic gyro]

Now imagine it's significantly harder

[dull zenith]

I'll save gems+tix for future units

I wonder if they'll keep Pilgrims at 0.08333% or keep the Pilgrim category at 0.5% (meaning each unit will be 0.0714% after Modernia goes into the regular pool)

[atomic gyro]

Prob at 0.5%

[dull zenith]

It's probably going to be the latter given how they need to preserve the 4%

Yeah, same... sadge

[atomic gyro]

Gotta dilute the pool so people spend more

[dull zenith]

Yep yep...

[molten robin]

At one copy, she is strong enough at her best niche (clearing tight mobs) that you shouldn't need a bit of extra power to be worth using

And I don't see her being used much for special intercept bosses, no clue about union bosses

[willow pecan]

I hope she's at least usable for people without scarlet as a third burst

[slow pulsar]

I thought she's just useful for auto attack

Her burst damage so low....

[molten robin]

She can hit a huge amount of enemies though if they're dense

Depends on the stage

And her burst damage isn't THAT low

At higher skill investment, it's close to guillotine's damage on every target she hits

[dull zenith]

Yeah her burst is very worth using to clear mobs

She seems to be better than any other unit when it comes to clearing mobs

Gonna be MVP for all those defense and king of the hill stages

And certain bosses like the Ch 16 boss fight

[cyan sedge]

During her burst she seems to be able to destroy the enviroment enemies use as cover. Have to make sure and check with gravedigger after reset but i suspect that she is actually doing the 7.71% during burst, but its simply the dmg numbers are not showing up.

Also another thing is that her crosshair hud during burst shows a target count of 1 even with no enemies inside the circle.

With 1 enemy inside the circle the counter says 2

[dull zenith]

Keep up the good work

[cyan sedge]

Oh and also with no enemies inside the circle, you can hear the machine gun still firing. As if its like the normal machine gun.

[cyan sedge]

@vapid geode ok so i tested modernia on gravedigger. Set all my allies to cover during her burst and only had her shooting she is able to destroy the red circles if i directly put my crosshairs on them however no dmg numbers will pop up from that spot. Im very certain at this point that her 7.71% normal atk dmg is in fact being applied during burst, but the dmg numbers are simply hidden.

[vapid geode]

huh

that's really really interesting

will test it

thanks!

[cyan sedge]

And also she seems to be able to destroy the enviroment that enemies use as cover during her burst.

If u aim the crosshair directly at it

[molten robin]

I think there's a hit at the cross hairs, but I don't think it's the base attack

[cyan sedge]

Its hard to tell since no dmg numbers. But definetely something is doing dmg there and not showing up on screen

[molten robin]

For example from austerity: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054516878556545226/1058833463282774016/XRecorder_Edited_31122022_144507.mp4

The crosshair damage is showing up on a boss part when aimed there, but it's less than the damage going out to other targets

[static apex]

[cyan sedge]

I believe what we are seeing here on the far left is the skill 1 dmg only
725 / 1.5 = 483
483 × (1 + 0.5 +0.5) = 966
On the right side the lower group of numbers seem to also be from s1

Something must be triggering the skill 1 since it requires normal attacks to proc

[molten robin]

I think you're right, but why would the s1 damage be different?

[cyan sedge]

That i do not know

[molten robin]

That being said, based on how much damage the part is taking given its hp bar, you might be right that it's the base attack still

That seems like a fair amount of damage going out

[vapid geode]

They either hid the numbers

to not clutter the screen

or it's some bug

[molten robin]

If the numbers aren't popping up, are they even being added to the damage screen?

[vapid geode]

that's impossible to test

honestly

[molten robin]

No it's not

You just need to find a scenario where you can hit one target while aiming to its side, then again while aiming directly at it

And observe the damage difference

[cyan sedge]

Here is another oddity with Modernia's dmg number display during her burst skill.
Other nikkes will only show their dmg numbers if you are actively controlling them. Modernia is the same until you use her burst skill. Afterwards her dmg numbers are popping on screen despite me not controlling her

[willow pecan]

for what it's worth, modernia does worse against chatterbox when bursting

more than fine when not bursting

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1039039582924181534/1058847707868958800/Screenshot_2023-01-01-04-37-52-390_com.proximabeta.nikke.jpg

this is when she's not bursting

at 40s remaining when she was bursting she only did 8m damage

[vapid geode]

Yeah - it seems she is good on bosses, but you need to run her as last slot in 1-1-3

so she never Bursts

[whole fox]

Didnt we tested it?

And thats not true

[molten robin]

What? I don't recall any testing that contradicted it

[whole fox]

I recall we did

[molten robin]

We determined she doesn't ignore the combat penalty is all I recall

[whole fox]

Yea but i belive @wintry ravine did more testing aye?

Does she ignore defence idk i dont recall

[wintry ravine]

we don't really have a good feel for any targets def, so kinda hard to ignore if it ignores def

[molten robin]

We have a known defense value of 100 in the firing range though

It should be very simple to determine

[wintry ravine]

it's kinda w/e tbh anyways

[molten robin]

I can calculate it myself tonight

[wintry ravine]

its less an added damage mechanic and more a way of ensuring the damage isn't punished because it is split (so it doesn't get double punished by def)

[molten robin]

Damage isn't punished by being split though

If I'm doing 10% damage in one attack or two 5% attacks, I do the same damage

[wintry ravine]

I thought the formula was a straight atk - def in this game

[molten robin]

No

Defense IS subtracted from base attack, but weapon and skill modifiers are applied afterwards

The consequence is lower and more frequent sources of damage are not punished more by defense than higher slower sources

[wintry ravine]

oh well, good good

[copper nexus]

Is this what you meant

[molten robin]

Not quite, what I'm looking for is hitting a target you can hit without having to aim directly at them - such as a boss core or a firing range enemy - then check damage after a full burst of that

Then repeat aiming directly at them

[copper nexus]

it seems the same damage numbers

[molten robin]

Hmm I'll arrange a test when I get home DW lol

[cyan sedge]

@copper nexus context here. Hes asking to burst for the full 15s 1st with the outer circle only and then pause and check the dmg stat. After redo the test again and burst for the full 15s but this time with the crosshair directly on enemy.

[copper nexus]

100k difference

[dim wolf]

That's quite useless

You can't be sure it's just a crit difference

Or FPS difference etc

[copper nexus]

seems pretty obvious

[cyan sedge]

U can see in 1st vid the red circle is getting destroyed

[copper nexus]

yeah so there is 1 auto aim per enemy, and another instance of dmg in the middle of the aim reticle

the aim dmg can hit red circles and boss parts

I’m guessing “attack point” is 2 because of the aim dmg + 1 enemy auto aim?

[cyan sedge]

Yea that what im thinking

Even with no enemy at all it says 1 while aiming

[copper nexus]

that confirms that then

[cyan sedge]

It only becomes 0 when she takes cover

[copper nexus]

the aim dmg seems to be the same as the auto aim dmg

just that auto aim is more likely to core hit

[dull zenith]

Auto aim damage without the extra 2+% atk buff right?

[sweet ocean]

does anyone know if special interception sets your skill/burst lvl to 10 just like coop?

[ashen fulcrum]

prob not

[pearl parcel]

Yes it does

As far as I read from a CN forum

Google translate sucks

[ashen fulcrum]

so the only thing that affects special is limitbreaks/bond/gear/cube/recycle?

[pearl parcel]

Yeah

That's why you can't do straight up a jump to last stage of damage

But I might be wrong on the skills too

[molten robin]

I can tell you tonight if it's adjusting skill level

It'll be trivial to verify with ludmilla

But I don't think it does

[dull zenith]

What is the recommended team for Interception-S Chatterbox? Liter, Centi, Laplace, Helm, Modernia?

[sweet ocean]

centi's not bringing damage, it's a race for chatterbox. You can't exactly outlast him

[dull zenith]

Doesn't her shield fully block his normal slam?

[sweet ocean]

yah, assuming it's up

[sweet ocean]

but tbh I don't even know if it also blocks the insta-kill debuff

[molten robin]

The debuff just reduces defense, so a shield will block it all the same

[sweet ocean]

I thought at certain stacks it would just make your nikke die on a single hit no matter what?

[static apex]

whats modernia's skill priority? 2 > B > 1

[molten robin]

1 should be the best

Then either B or 2 depending on how you're using her

[static apex]

i see thanks

[dull zenith]

I've been using Modernia today with Scarlet

She is a fucking beast

In tower and hard mode maps, she is so MVP

She punches up like she's punching down

[molten robin]

@pearl parcel SI does not set skills to 10 - visually buffs are their correct value, but I verified with ludmilla damage taken - she took 46% less damage from his laser, corresponding with my current level of skill investment

I messed up and lost an attempt testing this lol

[sweet ocean]

@copper nexus add this to your guides if you haven't already

[copper nexus]

sure

rip fiery’s attempt

[sweet ocean]

man I'm thirsty af for a good single target unit
I literally have all the required units to clear campaign+ dominate the arena

but my SI attempts are lacking, even though I can hit 4-5 consistently

[copper nexus]

you can get by with just a good shotgun team

[vernal coral]

Just another confirmation Modernia is better than Harran in mobbing and in single target, better for pushing up as well, and is particularly good at defend the point segments

I'm used to manual sniper spam and playing optimally in shooting range with Harran, I couldn't beat my Modernia runs

she also seems to do really well with the "reload 1 bullet every 10 hits" cube

her hit rate is already good enough to not need the hit rate cube, and up to 30 extra rounds per reload is quite good (though she never hits that without some clip expansion to counter the debuff component)

[static apex]

I heard with the hit rate cube you can make her skill 2 always active or something

[sweet ocean]

the hit rate cube isn't there for the hit rate itself, it's to keep s2 active all the time

[vernal coral]

Ah, it counts as being "under hit rate boost"

that makes sense

[still drift]

Laplace is almost required for Chatterbox Break9

Shotgunners are just there to supplement dps and break red circles.

[molten robin]

https://arca.live/b/nikketgv/66301274

[static apex]

Hopefully modernia functions well against modernia tomorrow

[vernal coral]

will go do another run and see which cube yields more

[molten robin]

snow white hit for 32m, immediate train phase 2 lol

[still drift]

Thats only a free break7

The rest of the run is doomed

[molten robin]

is anyone maxing train anyways?

[still drift]

Some, but extreme minmax required

[molten robin]

this seems pretty straightforwardly higher than most people could get trying it legit

[still drift]

Deep investment onto SW to get shitty rates on break7

Hard pass for me

[sweet ocean]

did she hit all 3 parts, meaning she got x3 damage?

[molten robin]

I think so

maybe even X4, hit the train itself + all 3 parts

[sweet ocean]

that's some fancy cheese

will try tomorrow, I have all components

[copper nexus]

I’ve heard you can get stage 5 on train with a level 4 snow burst

[sweet ocean]

it's worth it imo, seeing that train is one of the harder SIs

[copper nexus]

snow can also cheese modernia and other stages

[trail falcon]

wow, he actually hit 3 parts, there were only rumors that 3 parts was doable most of the time you hit 2 parts.

Usually the strat is you burst down two parts at the right side with sw

[sweet ocean]

it's manual aim, doable

[trail falcon]

his sw is 27k, mine is barely 20k I think

so he has really good equipment/SL

[still drift]

Anything below 7 is a bust tho

At any rate, I'd rather be investing in the rest of the SIs than hyperfocusing on a subpar Alteisen result.

[trail falcon]

you don't really need much investment for the other SIs though

SL4s are sufficient to get you clears

[still drift]

Precisely

Modernia and GD reqs are abit higher

[trail falcon]

GDs requirement is more of equipment I think. Just slowly build your equipment up, and with the right shotgun comp you'll get there even at SL4. Modernia is also doable with SW so its not like building SW is detrimental to clearing the other SIs

[still drift]

Is there a vidya of a Modernia SW clear?

[trail falcon]

there probably is but I'd wait for modernia next rotation for more vids to surface

[sweet ocean]

this guy has a ton of SI clear refs https://www.youtube.com/@Violet_002/videos

Noise is a REALLY good crutch

her taunt works against single bosses like these

[copper nexus]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1i44y1o7vn/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0

[still drift]

I don't wanna be nitpicky nor is this his fault, but :

[molten robin]

I mean, liter core hardly makes a difference here

[still drift]

I suppose so

[sweet ocean]

unless SI takes CP into account too

[trail falcon]

even for the train you don't need to do what that KR person did by going all in support on SW. You can run a more normal comp with liter and get to node 7 with the regular strat of clearing the right side first

do we know if modernia hits all the parts for alteisen ?

[willow pecan]

Do we know if Modernia hits all the parts on chatterbox?

All I know is her DPS got shafted when I let her burst today

She was doing about 30% better not bursting

[static apex]

she doesnt hit multiple parts..

i personally just use her burst so i can get rid of both of the missiles he launches at the same time to save hp/shield for his jump smash

[willow pecan]

I see

[static apex]

its probably not optimal but that just how i wanna use her

[willow pecan]

Nah I've been thinking about that too myself

Not sure how to make it work yet, I was 12m away from full clear

But also had 0 t9

[static apex]

damn

[molten robin]

pretty sure this was previously verified, but:

17845 X 0.0865 X 1.5 (full burst bonus) = 2315, the observed true damage

if the damage was not ignoring defense, we would see 17745 X 0.0865 X 1.5 = 2302

after subtracting 100 defense

[molten robin]

true damage ignores defense @wintry ravine

[ashen fulcrum]

i feel in most games true damage

means ignore defense

[pearl parcel]

I understand. Thanks for the info.

[static apex]

dumb question...does modernia benifit with charge dmg? like bcz of the bar below the crosshair..like the windup time = charging

i doubt it would but making sure just incase some sorcery is happening

[slow pulsar]

Has anyone notice that Modernia has lower DPS at 30 FPS?

[dull zenith]

No

[static apex]

i see thx

[cyan sedge]

Lol so apparently Modernia cannot use cover during her burst skill.

At 00:35

[willow pecan]

seems the same as laplace then

[static apex]

basically screwed if your timing is off

[molten robin]

Well known, this especially affects fast-attackjng units

Lap burst has the same issue

[cyan sedge]

Idk about laplace, but i found a workaround for modernia by turning off auto fire setting and taking control of her, she will take cover properly and stop shooting

[static apex]

oh thats handy

[vernal coral]

So cube comparison with skill levels 7/5/6

(Note - Team (Liter/Yuni/Scarlet/Modernia/Rapunzel) has not that good burst generation, which should tilt things in favor of Assault - only 3~4 full bursts over the run. The better your burst generation, the less Assault contributes since you'd have the attack buff up more often. I wanted to see how it'd go without using Centi first.)

Assault:
11,242,630
12,335,928
12,571,585
12,654,956
13,367,198

Bastion:
14,722,962
13,955,084
12,161,473
12,156,739
14,354,280

to me Bastion looks better even when burst isn't up that frequently and she doesn't get to chain bursts to keep the hit rate bonus in effect

[vernal coral]

wrote it up properly in the megathread but figured I'd dump here as well

[sweet ocean]

now that's a find

[molten robin]

Shouldn't bursting less favor bastion? Since bastion only has an effect when not using burst

[vernal coral]

It works when she isn't bursting

Also redid with her as a support burst and they became nearly interchangable

Redoing with:

Team: Liter/Harran/Scarlet/Modernia/Yuni

Bastion:
12,617,111
12,628,338
12,110,445

Assault:
12,891,028
11,931,981
12,367,273

Bastion Average: 12,451,964.7
Assault Average: 12,396,760.7

significantly closer, practically interchangable

[molten robin]

Right, that's fair, the assault cube has diminished impact when others burst too

[cyan sedge]

I feel like bastion will get better with upgrades whereas assaults only purpose really is to trigger the atk buff which doesnt care about lvls

[vernal coral]

Exactly this

As bastion finally gets upgradable that gap will widen

Her hit rate is already so high assault doesn't actually do anything aside from maintaining Leap

[molten robin]

I wouldn't consider the impact of the hitrate to be zero, MG is accurate but it's not 100% core hits especially during burst, but yea I think it's clear bastion upgrades will be better

[vernal coral]

it's not zero, true, but I mean in comparison at higher levels it isn't going to change much, is my point

compared to what'll happen with Bastion

[molten robin]

Not when even one more upgrade of bastion will double it's effect, no

Their upgrades aren't very comparable

[dull zenith]

Why does Assault diminish if others burst? Without Assault and Modernia bursting, Modernia will never get attack buff

Nvm her hit rate comes from full burst not just her burst

[cyan sedge]

The cube from last sector actually seems even better. Since it will directly counter the negative from her s1

I think bastion is only good on nikke that already have a +mag buff like drake

[vernal coral]

Bastion is good on huge clip sizes too, which is one of the main factors for MGs

[vernal coral]

but in terms of effect with this specific situation:

Her clip size is 300 by default. Her clip size debuff is 5.04 and stacks up to 5 times, giving -25.2% at max stacks. Without the max ammo cube, this degrades her capacity to 224.4 rounds.

Cube would work off her base, giving her
300 * .1484 = 44.52 extra rounds

344.52 - 25.2% - 257.7 rounds.

With Bastion, assuming she lands all shots, that's an extra 22 rounds at lv. 2, so 246.4 rounds.
Bastion Lv.3 would give 44 rounds, for 268.4 rounds.

The cube you linked is better, but it's also waaay later in the game compared to Bastion and it would also depend long term on how much extra you get per level. Say it goes from 14.84 to around 22 - that'd be 66 extra rounds, then 366 - 25.2% = 273.8 rounds. The gap is smaller, so Bastion may eventually win out but I don't have the ammo cube so I didn't know about it and I don't know what it's Lv. 3 is

Bastion is obtained in Sector 7, whereas the final cube is Sector 11 and requires clearing 4-9 hard, something most players aren't going to be capable of for quite a long time. It's also not upgradable to lv. 2 at the moment, so you're taking some stat loss for the extra 10 rounds

[copper nexus]

shouldn't resilience be better?

from my calculations, it should be wingsman > resilience > bastion

[molten robin]

Not sure how you handled the math, but it's not the simplest comparison, because both wingsman and bastion are extending the time you spend "hot"

Whereas unchanged magazine and faster reload means your ratio of time spent hot vs building up is unchanged

[molten robin]

Also I haven't used bastion much, but the bullets it adds are the same as any other right? If so your math is slightly off, because if it adds 22 bullets, those 22 bullets will count for a further 2.2 bullets

[copper nexus]

I'm just using the average rof I calculated when at the full max 300 ammo but applying it to 224+cube changes

[molten robin]

Unless the game mechanically excludes the added bullets

[copper nexus]

so it could be slightly off yeah

[molten robin]

Yea so the nuance here is the added bullets/magazine size are added at the END, so your dps then is higher than at the start

You can compare the difference in ratios

[molten robin]

Assuming this is true, bastion upgrades are worth more than at first glance because of the compounding effect

If max upgrade is 5 bullets added per 10 shots for example, for a 300 magazine you'd first add 150, then add 75, then add 37, then add 19, etc

So instead of a 50% increase to effective magazine size, it'll be around 100%

[copper nexus]

Yeah but I'm too dumb and lazy to calc this for each stack of her skill 1 so I'm just calcing for max stack which leaves her at 224 ammo

Bastion is apparently 5.5 additional ammo at max rank not sure how that works

I'll see if I can test it later today

[static apex]

so..
if burst modernia use assault..
if supp modernia use bastion?

[sweet ocean]

do we know the rotation for SIs?

[static apex]

Chatterbox
Mordernia
Train
Grave digger
Blacksmith

[sweet ocean]

nice ty

[vernal coral]

looks more like you can just leave bastion on in both cases unless you want someone else to use bastion and it is a conflict

[static apex]

i see

[dull zenith]

What makes SI Train so hard?

[solid relic]

Missile Launcher missiles cannot be destroyed and tear through cover and your units

turrets tear through cover and your units

[still drift]

You're on a extreme time crunch to kill 3 different parts.
All 3 parts have the potential to kill units in one volley.

[dull zenith]

I see

[still drift]

Even Scarlet Maxed out with 10/10/10s Overload Gear have difficulty to break all 3 parts before they start shooting.

[dull zenith]

Hmm

So is Train just broken?

[still drift]

So Poli and Noah are considered as options to tank the heat.

[static apex]

Welp imma expect only hitting node 1

[dull zenith]

How does Poli tank? Poli would probably just die

[still drift]

In a sense, yes, Alteisen seems extremely more difficult than the 4 other SI's.

Her Burst delays enough time for you to kill.

Its just a cope

The real tank is Noah but shes also on a 40s Burst

[dull zenith]

I'm gonna have to watch some videos

[still drift]

https://youtu.be/YE-ZozaTBA4?t=1315

This is the main vid that you need to watch

TLDR :
We've tried pumping DPS, and it still wasn't enough. So therefore we cope with tanking some shots

[dull zenith]

Thanks

[solid relic]

Ha ha ha, that last Snow White team is great

[still drift]

Overload gears do not stack buffs.
Lets just say you roll a 10% atk on your helm.
and you roll 5% ATK+ up buffs on your Arm, Boots, and Chest.
They do not stack.
Only the highest% gets applied. (10% on Helm)

[static apex]

tf

[still drift]

Throw all your knowledge about gear farming equip games

out the window

[static apex]

thats gotta be a glitch right?

no shot thats intended

[still drift]

Doubtful

Pretty sure this is just a classic

Korean to EN failure of a translation

that means

"Overload gear buffs dont stack"

[static apex]

or it means you cant get the same buff in one gear..like having 2 attack buffs in 1 gear

[still drift]

I've tested it with different values, I don't feel like sending in a support ticket either.

Maybe it is unintended, but thats how it works for now.

[static apex]

[dull zenith]

I see all these folks in nikke showoff mlb-ing Modernia

Should I also try?

I feel left out

Someone tell me no

What is the % benefit of mlb anyway

[molten robin]

well the % benefit changes based on level gear etc

mlb/bond is all flat stats

[still drift]

Please don't fall into the bait

of MLB'ing outside of breaking the 160

or "Its needed for Special Intercept"

Also MLBing Modernia for 160 barrier is exceptionally bad.

1%

[dull zenith]

Okay

I'm already past the 160 barrier

I just figure that this is the time to mlb Modernia if I ever wanted to

cuz 1% > 0.071%

But yeah 1% will likely bankrupt me

[ornate solar]

thanks for this

words of wisdom

[still drift]

To show an example : Modernia has an Ammo Cap of 300.
For example, I luck out and roll a Max Cap of 85.37%+ on my Armpiece.
This yields 556.11 Ammo Cap.
300*(185.37%)=556.11 Ammo.

Simple enough.

Lets pretend I also decide to Overload my armor.
Wow! I rolled an 44.28% on the same modifier, Ammo Cap Up.

Normal MMO players would expect :
Because I have the modifiers on 2 different pieces of gear, they would stack like so :
85.37+44.28= 129.65%+ increase in ammo cap
Which would equal to 688.95 Ammo. (300Ammo*(100%+129.65%)) = 688.95

However, this is not the case.
This is me in the shooting range with both pieces of gear.

@static apex

[frosty shore]

anyone ever thought of removing fullburst mode yellow tint + damage numbers showing? I feel like they impact your dps/fps and clutters the screen

[static apex]

yikes

why wouldnt they let us have nice things

[still drift]

They don't want to make too much sense.

[willow pecan]

it's called tencent

not many cents

only ten cents allowed, no more than that

[dim wolf]

So buffs don't stack huh

[meager elbow]

This is worst than genshin artifact

[static apex]

someone said this regarding the pryden modernia post

[dim wolf]

still lower dmg if she didnt burst at all

[willow pecan]

Yeah that's pretty much confirmed

Discount scarlet in terms of lower damage, extreme clunkiness but vastly superior waveclear

Scarlet still pretty much better in every way except waveclear

[vapid geode]

Yeah, honestly the mechanics are wonky

and after 2 days we can see that we were scared for wrong reason

she is still really really good

on bosses

not just locked to AOE situation

[willow pecan]

I'd say she's locked out if you need 1-2-2 on a boss though

Unless you're massively overgeared she's not going to cut it dps wise for a full clear while bursting on ST in special intercept

Unbuilt scarlet does twice as much

While providing free high burst screenclear

Maybe I'm mistaken

[willow pecan]

Apparently I'm mistaken about scarlet doing twice as much, mb.

[static apex]

also whats the main reason why modernia sux in pvp?

[vapid geode]

Ult targets only 2 people and you want skills that do damage instantly there

not wait 15 seconds for the max dmg output

[static apex]

but cant you still trigger the skills during the 15 sec duration?

[vapid geode]

Modernia starts ulting -> Privaty one shots her

instant skills are needed in Arena

[static apex]

i see

what about her not using cover is that a problem also?

since the aggro gathers on her bcz she doesnt reload

[copper nexus]

This was already debunked in my modernia analysis

[static apex]

i see, i didnt see that before

[vernal coral]

She's really not that far off from Scarlet single target btw

[wintry ravine]

has anyone actually tested whether plus charge damage increases the time it takes to do a full charge attack?

[cyan sedge]

seems like liter's cover heal was changed recently. it now chooses based on the hp of the cover rather than their health

[dull zenith]

This was part of the early Dec bug fix if I recall recorrectly

@still drift Thanks for your advice the other day about not going for mlb Modernia. I'm gonna beat a dead horse: it's looking like the next 2 or 3 banners will be mid. Should I dump everything to try to mlb Modernia?

[dull zenith]

She is quite a bit far from Scarlet in ST in my experience

No one is close to Scarlet

[molten robin]

She doesn't restore broken cover though

Not sure if a bug or intentional

[still drift]

If you looked at the roadmap, I would still save for the next 2 Pilgrims.

[dull zenith]

Thanks

I will do that

[still drift]

But honestly, if you're a creditcard swiper

Throw all my advice into the garbage can

[dull zenith]

I am, but I'm not a big one

[still drift]

Its useless

[slow pulsar]

Wait when will next pilgrim drop again? I only see the roadmap till doggos nikke

Oh wait nvm

[sweet ocean]

If Mord's waveclear focus then Nihilister must be the single target choice

please shitup I need a good single target dps nikke

[vernal coral]

In my experience she's closer than everyone else I've tried when I look at my damage breakdowns, but not as good on bossing for sure

but there's also an imbalance on limit breaks in my case

scarlet is lb1 whereas my modernia is lb3

[dull zenith]

That shouldn't make that big of a diff

Unless they're max bonded

[copper nexus]

has anyone done research into hit rate yet? something like a DPS test between hit rate cube and the other cubes, how much hit rate is "lost" per range, or how hit rate buff compares with other buffs in general?

[copper nexus]

if no one has I'll test that tomorrow, interested to know as well

[vernal coral]

20 bond vs 30 bond

[molten robin]

@copper nexus I can confirm the mechanic of how bastion cube works - the bullets it adds also counts toward adding new bullets

so instead of bastion cube adding 10% to effective magazine size, it adds 11.11%, and gets significantly better with each upgrade

[copper nexus]

I see ty

[molten robin]

easily observable in single fire, take an AR - at 51 bullets left, you fire and it still reads 51 - then at 42 it sill shoot and still read 42, then 33 24 15 6 etc

if it did not count the bullet added, you'd see 51 41 31 21 11 1

also incidental discovery, bastion ignores bullets fired at terrain

so it only counts bullets that hit enemies?

while at rank 1/2 it's a modest 11% more effective than it seems at first due to this, to demonstrate how it ramps up: at max upgrade, 5.5 bullets added per 10 fired, instead of increasing the magazine size by an effective 55%, it is instead a 122% increase

[high kindle]

Did you test it with all stats or only with max ammo?

[still drift]

iDollSun
14.71% ATK per hit.
19984 ATK.
Both Overload Gears no offensive mods :
Expected Damage : 2939.64
1 shot on Union Range Rapture : 2924 no crit, bodyshot.

4.77 on Helmet
6.18 on Jacket

3106 damage on bodyshot rapture no crit

baseline shot = 2924

Expected value of 1.0618 (highest value) = 3104.7032
Expected value of 1.1095 (combined) = 3244.178

@high kindle As expected, ATK does the same thing.

I think I'll just make a blanket statement : All mods work the same.

[high kindle]

Should be easier to build then

You have 12 slots and 9 possible mods

Of which only 6-7 are useful

[cyan sedge]

If thats true, then mg loses out a bit since they still shoot when moving between targets

[molten robin]

Against a non-boss yea

[dull zenith]

Not sure if there's been any investigation into this, but looking at https://nikke.gg/advise/#Attacker Bond 40 (mlb pilgrim) provides an attacker with a flat increase in 2,340 attack. At level 165 with t9 gear (level 1) and 4/4/4, my Scarlet has 23,700 attack. I imagine by level 200 with t9m gear or overloaded gear that's leveled up, that would increase.

So at 'end game' bond 40 provides <10% bonus compared to bond 0. Maybe around 5%?

The flat stats buff of bond & dupes become more insignificant the more you progress your characters

[static apex]

interesting, i always thought it was the other way around

[dull zenith]

I am assuming that dupes give you a flat increase in stats. Someone told me that in this channel a couple of days ago.

Bond definitely gives a flat increase in stats, and max bond is tied to lb

[vernal coral]

5% would still be better than two core breaks though

I wouldn't consider that insignificant

[dull zenith]

I'm not saying it's insignificant

I'm saying that it doesn't scale

[molten robin]

I mean...I think that says more about how little cores are worth than how good bond is

[dull zenith]

I'm trying to quantify the value of additional pulles on rate up banners to mlb

[vernal coral]

Ah, I see

That makes sense. I needed the stats from bond to keep pushing at the under-power thresholds I do, so it was worth a lot to me in practice, but that's a very niche case

[molten robin]

on that topic though, does the 2% bonus from a core apply to all stats? so leveling + gear + bond?

[dull zenith]

I'm doing this by focusing on the higher bond level cap that mlb provides, rather than the stat buff that dupes give you directly

@copper nexus In these charts you have, are the stat benefits per bond level cumulative? or are they marginal?

https://nikke.gg/advise/#Attacker

I'm 99% sure they're cumulative, but I wanna double check lol

[molten robin]

they're cumulative

[dull zenith]

So this entire exercise is to convince myself to save my tix and gems and not try to mlb my 1 copy of Modernia lol

[static apex]

[still drift]

Core % only applies on base level stats.

Even LB stats are ignored.

[molten robin]

Yea so that's really not that big a deal

[cyan sedge]

Lb is flat stat?

[still drift]

Yes.

[molten robin]

Yea

[high kindle]

Doesn't it scale with lvl?

[still drift]

no.

Cores scale with Level.
Limit Breaks do not.

[cyan sedge]

are you sure? my friend and i got different increases from max limit break

[still drift]

Sorry maybe this is slightly misleading to call it "Flat".
Yes. They scale slightly ontop of their flat stat improvement.

Left to right lv1-3

top to bottom LB1-3

Their LB is also wonky, +-1

(Open original, the image is massive)

[still drift]

Level 1 LB0 Modernia :
13500 HP
600 ATK
75 DEF

Level 1 LB3 Modernia :
23310 HP
695 ATK
379 DEF

Level 200 LB0 Modernia :
474573 HP
21091 ATK
2646 DEF

Level 200 LB3 Modernia :
512047 HP
22416 ATK
3104 DEF

Level 200 Scale check :

512047-474573 = 37474 HP from LB
Subtract flat LB improvements : 37474-(3270*3) = 27664 scaling.
= 9221 HP Scaling per LB

27664/199 Level improvement = 139.015 HP per level

139.015/3 = 46.33 HP/Level Per LB

Discord sometimes messes with math so :

Wtf we're dumb as a brick

LBs actually do have a scaling of 2% AS WELL

WHY CORE

[molten robin]

they're additive, right? I suspected it might be % and additive when I saw it drop to 31 in your ss

[still drift]

Yep

[molten robin]

hmmm, but even if that's true, it's still odd, isn't it? shouldn't it be the same amount for all 3 lb?

[still drift]

I'd suspect some bullshit rounding behavior

AGAIN

[molten robin]

because theoretically they're all the same, 2% of the same base

[still drift]

Nikke math is cringe sometimes, I'll just chalk it up to odd behavior

[molten robin]

so it's flat scaling + % increase?

[still drift]

mhm

[molten robin]

so strictly better than cores

[still drift]

I mean its just a flat bonus, it loses relevancy later i guess

I mean just from looking at HP, a bulk of the stats came from levels

[cyan sedge]

and does core levels actually take into account bonds?

[molten robin]

but 18707 is 66 higher than 18641?

not 66 * 1.02

[cyan sedge]

1st pic is b4 i upgraded bond level 2nd pic is after bond lvl upgrade, i dont have any core levels at all yet

its just that the core update screen shows the increases from bond

[molten robin]

I see what you mean

I mean it is easy to prove or falsify

we just need that same comparison, but before and after

[dull zenith]

Does all of the above mean I shouldn't be spending tix and gems to try to mlb Modernia?

[still drift]

My firm stance is still : mlbs and Cores are luxuries f2ps cannot afford for what they actually provide.

You can mlb or core if you feel the need for it.

I personally do not see it required for Special Intercept.

F2P's MLBing Modernia is already a 2x price compared to a regular unit.

[fickle gazelle]

but still easier to MLB compared to other pilgrims since you have a higher chance of getting it because of banner

and pilgrims generally can't be gotten from mileage shop

[still drift]

Not that any person was planning on MLBing a Pilgrim except for whales.

[molten robin]

2% rateup banners are excellent ways to break the 160 wall, but tbh the value of power has gone down with the campaign power adjustment, and the fact that outpost is capped at 100

and 1% is obviously a lot worse than 2%

[still drift]

^^

tbh, the value of power rides on Ch19-20 release.

[molten robin]

and will yknow, 5-15% (15% prob generous) extra stats make or break any current or future content? seems unlikely

[still drift]

Only matters for when you're Level Capped.

[molten robin]

it might be one thing if she was like, scarlet on steroids

[still drift]

Ex SI

[molten robin]

something apparent we will use in all content and it will be dominant

[fickle gazelle]

what's the power difference between a pilgrim vs a regular SSR?

[molten robin]

well, nothing, aside from the extra bond cap, right? I don't think their stat scaling is special

could be wrong though

[still drift]

Their Power Scaling is the same, Bond Cap is nice, the quality of the units are exceptionally better.

[molten robin]

so if you mean power in the sense that I did, combat power, then there's almost no difference

[sweet ocean]

spare bodies giveaway when shitup

[sweet ocean]

oh outpost's maxed out at lvl 100

[copper nexus]

have we found the calculation for combat power yet?

[copper nexus]

lmao huge

[still drift]

A long time ago, yes. A calculator has already been made.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12f3vjcVS7ty_HjIb3mb_XfH_iGLzoKEfrAgOk-UHoAE/edit#gid=0

[copper nexus]

ah right, ty

[dull zenith]

@still drift I couldn't resist. I'm sorry. But it worked out. #show-off message

[still drift]

[copper nexus]

@still drift do you happen to know how it works with buffs? because sim buffs increase your CP right, does it also apply with cube buffs?

[still drift]

Nope, havent bothered with Sim interactions

@copper nexus

[copper nexus]

rip alright

thanks anyways

[dull zenith]

Does the +charge dmg cube buff Snow White's burst?

[dull zenith]

Massive tier list update @copper nexus nice work

[dull zenith]

Auster, for your new recommended cube information, can you add a lookup from the other direction? Select cube -> see all recommended Nikkes for that cube

[copper nexus]

I'm working on a comprehensive cube guide!

[still drift]

Assault Cube is useless once you get Hitrate Overload.

[copper nexus]

yeah the only question is comparing hit rate overload + other cube vs hit rate cube + other overload

other cube probably better but we can try to calc the diff

[still drift]

Theres 12 slots, and 9 buffs. You can have them all with some luck.

Only the highest buff applies.

[copper nexus]

oh they don't stack?

[still drift]

Nope.

[copper nexus]

rip

[still drift]

Throw all your MMO and Geargrinding game knowledge out the window

[copper nexus]

bruh moment

hit rate cube looking kinda dogwater

[still drift]

Extreme cope for Modernia enjoyers

[dull zenith]

Cubes give stats

So it's good to have one equipped anyway

[still drift]

Yes. that is factually correct.

[dull zenith]

The best kind of correct

[still drift]

||We're not trying to answer if having one is better than none, we're trying to figure out which one is better out of all of them.||

[dull zenith]

||Why are we whispering||

[still drift]

I'll put it bluntly. You simply said nothing of value.

I would literally ban you from this channel if I could. You end up derailing any discussion by contributing nothing of value, and convert it into a personal #questioning-centre or #1042929307414184028 .

[dull zenith]

😦 Okay I'll leave

[cyan sedge]

I feel like its a bug if they dont stack if theres 12 slots but only 9 buffs

[still drift]

Not sure, it could swing either way.

Could be to reduce malding over attempting to go for Maxrolls.

[meager elbow]

stacking 4 attack buffs and 4 max ammu buffs for example is too strong.

The % to receive SP arena point and ranking didn't get reset

so you could store it or the next?

[static apex]

it seems like thats the case, its pretty dumb tbh

one way to screw whales over, if you are in the top 5 and you save up to 24hrs worth of points then use it at reset, thats gonna be hard to catch up on

[still drift]

I didn't really get to see someone actually do the carryover for the generation.

[static apex]

in #pvp-arena-discussion they were talking about it

[still drift]

I'm always extremely wary of bullshit claims for now.
I remember when people were claiming "You can just save up all your generation and hit rank 1 and then just claim all hours at rank 1"

[molten robin]

I just claimed my points and I got all of them

[still drift]

Above 4%?

[molten robin]

I was at 83%

[still drift]

Jesus

[static apex]

idk what the devs were thinking

[still drift]

I SHOULVE SAVED POINTS HOLY

WHAT AN OVERSIGHT

[fickle gazelle]

yea

[static apex]

or they just didnt consider this happening

[fickle gazelle]

all those people that forgot special arena reset today will be saved and rewarded : (

[static apex]

i claimed all mine out of concern someone might take my place..

[fickle gazelle]

same, i wanted gems but now i am the fucking donkey

[still drift]

Please someone buy this

and send it to Shiftup

Need to put that shit on ASAP

[static apex]

[cyan sedge]

How do these brackets work? Do u literally have to be in top 10 to get the 1200 gems? But then rank 10 is supposed to get 1500 gems

[still drift]

I guess they expected server sizes to be alot larger

[whole fox]

They didnt expect the game to be so ded u know

Hhhahahaha

Ite just keep getting worst n worst soo..

Sadly momey talks so, the faster their revenues drops, the more radical their action get

[copper nexus]

[whole fox]

Wow julia bug

Man this game consistency have issue man

[dim wolf]

JULIA WHAT

[vernal coral]

someone did that to me too

rank 5 or something is now rank 1 with like...4k point lead. They didn't max save at least but that big of a lead is going to be hard to catch

[dim wolf]

how about 88k point lead

[vernal coral]

oh, that's impossible roflmao

actually so screwed up

[copper nexus]

anyone here interested in writing guides for nikke or other games? dm me

[slow pulsar]

Huh better be top 100 rn and get top 1 next season

Time to accumulate now ||and sad because it's somehow getting patched next season||

[still drift]

I'm expecting a bugfix in less than 14 days

Also compensation according to placement.

Its hurting players who are playing honestly.

[static apex]

the top 1 in my server is at diamond 4 with 16k points..and me and my fellow challengers are at 3k-6k points..this game bro

[sweet ocean]

but the game's topping in rev in jp

[still drift]

Whales love their

[vernal coral]

I am. I wrote a huge one for base pso2 at one point

[sweet ocean]

rip pso2, sega's a different kind of incompentence

[static apex]

they took action fast

[sweet ocean]

glad they're taking actions this fast compared to other problems
can't get our whels be offended

[willow pecan]

thank you whales

[still drift]

Honest players

[spare pine]

at least i got my 3k from this season

[stable kindle]

why you thanking them?
now no more gem source till who knows when.

[still drift]

Compensation

[stable kindle]

300 gems... or arena tickets... or promising later date compensation & just pretend to forget it later (like the massive bugs compensation).

[spare pine]

20k arena shop tickets

[static apex]

i bet on 12-24hr boxes

[still drift]

Im not even sure if the people who got falsebanned got compensation yet

Never saw a screenshot of it

[stable kindle]

Those falsely banned for Lost Sector 9-10-EX02 did get 24h materials as compensation.

Maybe you meant another case?

[willow pecan]

cause I would have been 10k behind 2 nerds otherwise

I can fight the whales in my server for now, probably rank 2-3

but if you add 2 randos and who knows who else on top

my gem income = gg

[stable kindle]

But even 900 gems/week are much better than no gems at all.

[willow pecan]

they'll fix it in a few days and we go back to getting free gems, dw

[still drift]

Ah thats the one

Dang not even any extra goodies

Lose a day of Dispatch and gems

Simroom rewards

They need to factor all that in.

Also mightve killed some players who were fighting for Tribe/Manufacturers tower

[willow pecan]

Alright what's with the PvP rewards? So far we know everyone gets 10h of rewards based on rank when arena went down

But one guy has claimed another time after that initial claim and got 0 red coins

[ashen fulcrum]

wait for overload gear you cant stack all attack?

[willow pecan]

What's going on lads

[willow pecan]

Currently only highest % works

They don't stack at all

[ashen fulcrum]

so theres only 9 effects

but 12 slots

i wonder if intentional

[tiny current]

Limit breaking shows +31 atk and 32 atk respectively but after limit breaking the stats are way more than 31+32, any idea how this is calculated?

[still drift]

I think the core and lbs also use affection level for their scaling

Extreme jank moment

@tiny current

I kept my testing to affection1 for my initial lb calc

@tender summit

[tiny current]

Hmm thats a possibility

I will check back again soon with more data

[still drift]

O wtf its Riza from Gaijins

[tiny current]

Wtf why m I famous in every server

[still drift]

[tiny current]

I just throw abit of money to help the community

[vernal coral]

I played only on Japanese

I wrote the book on base game Katana Braver

also, interesting output from Modernia in my latest run, without her ever being allowed to use her own burst.

Only major difference is lb and 10 bond levels and one skill level

[still drift]

Okay, theres some serious bullshit going on

Limit Breaks = Flat Stat + (Level Stats*1.02)

[tiny current]

That's core 7?

[tiny current]

I knew it 😁

[still drift]

Core = (Level Stats + AFFECTION LEVEL)*1.02

I FEEL

SICK

I SERIOUSLY FEEL

SUPER SICK

[tiny current]

I told yall that shit don't add up

Limit break stats are like more than 50% of the total extra stats

The stats you gain from core uncaps are 🤌

[still drift]

[tiny current]

Yes

Hmm I would need to spend more gems to calculate a lb 0 to 3 difference

[still drift]

Ah I can do that

[tiny current]

And then a lb 0 to 3 to core 1 to 7 difference

[still drift]

Affection 0? or 30

[tiny current]

0

Keep the stat controlled for now

[tender summit]

Man, another thing that annoying to calc is manu and bond

[tiny current]

Lol I just realised 2% stat increase but it's only + 15

[tender summit]

That's easy, stats * (1 + .02*lb) + flat bonus * lb

[tiny current]

Uncle xi bin cheating the values

[tiny current]

Is .02 that magic number that popped outta nowhere

[tender summit]

Core is idk stats after lb 3 * pow(1.02 , core lvl) ?

[still drift]

Or maybe its a visual error that accidentally factors in the the Affection?

[tender summit]

It shows 2% on grade_ratio

[tiny current]

Oh

[tender summit]

Grade_hp, atk, def are flat values

[tiny current]

I thought y'all worked backwards to get that number

I guess datamined sheets works too

[tender summit]

Flat value increase for ssr is 3k hp, 20 atk, 100 def

[tiny current]

I love maths

[tender summit]

I forgot that manu facturer plays a role 🤦

[tiny current]

I was right

Limit break stats are worth so much more than core stats

[still drift]

We technically knew about this a few days ago when I decided to do the math finally

[tender summit]

Like what, 3k hp?

[tiny current]

Nice bait uncle xi

[still drift]

We always knew about the flat stat

[tiny current]

The last 7 cores are like 35% of the total stat at best

[still drift]

but it also had 2% scaling

[tiny current]

Oh dam u had a c7 maiden ready to go?

[still drift]

#1042458757843656774 message

[tiny current]

Or is that the CBT server

[still drift]

||Testing||

[tiny current]

Yee CBT server

Unless u dropped cash

[still drift]

Actually lemme confirm if its a visual glitch

[tender summit]

Bruh, full formula: (base stats *(1 + .02 * lb) + flat * lb) * ( 1 + .02 * core)

[still drift]

Sickening

[tender summit]

Man, 2% is fucking scams

[tiny current]

Yee

That last 7 cores is scams

Cuz no affection multipler

[vernal coral]

no, c0 lb3

[dull zenith]

Just so I understand, is this summary accurate?

Limit breaks offer a flat increase of X in stats, while core upgrades offer a flat increase of Y in stats, where X > Y. Limit break and core upgrades also provide an additional 2% increase in stats.

[vernal coral]

and the one skill level.mentioned

[dull zenith]

So core upgrades do not impart any flat stat buffs?

[tiny current]

Uncle xi bait

U pay an extra thousand or 2 for the remaining 30-35% stat increase

[tiny current]

And the first 4 copies are worth basically 70% of the total stat

[still drift]

But the Affection is multiplied

[tiny current]

Did u take into account faction values + type values

[still drift]

Always standardized to 0

[tiny current]

Ok

[still drift]

I dont touch Recycling room on testing

[tender summit]

Yup

[tender summit]

20%

[still drift]

There are ALOT of people

who told me

"Laplace Cores are worth it"

[vernal coral]

mmmhmhmh

[still drift]

So real formula : (base stats (1 + .02 lb) + flat x lb) x ( (1 + AFFECTION VALUE)x.02 * core)

[still drift]

Since this message clearly shows the WHOLE thing got multiplied at affection10

[high kindle]

Affection got multiplied from cores but not from lbs?

[still drift]

^ precisely that

[tiny current]

14% of affection

Uncle xi

[molten robin]

(base stats (1 + .02 lb) + flat x lb + AFFECTION VALUE) x ( (1 + (.02 * core) )

is that not correct?

[tiny current]

Why u do this

[molten robin]

as you wrote it, you're multiplying affection value by the large value of the first portion of your formula

[still drift]

Ah, ^

[high kindle]

What about recycling stats

[molten robin]

easy to test, but probably another added category in the first parenthetical

[high kindle]

Does it also multiplied or not

[tiny current]

Actually won't it be good to just leave chars at lb3 core 1 @still drift

Assuming affection 30

Bang for buck

[still drift]

I supposed if you really wanted to take advantage of Affection Scaling

[tiny current]

Core 1 would be just enuf

To abuse affection scaling

[still drift]

I'm honestly not going to bother with that,
||I dont see an obvious way to reset my Recycling room ||

[molten robin]

not sure what you mean admi, core 1 is 2% better than no core, and core 2 is 1.96% better than core 1

so in the sense that each core is marginally worse, I guess so

[high kindle]

Stats from equipment not affected right?

[still drift]

They should be seperate for sure

[tiny current]

U said it

But yes

It's diminishing returns/core uncap

[molten robin]

very marginal, but yes

[tiny current]

I mean lb 3 c7 isn't even realistic for many people

Even lb 3 isn't even realistic for many people now

[cyan sedge]

Shouldnt core also be multiplying base stats too? Here it seems to only multiply the affection value

[molten robin]

not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, but I assume you're misreading the formula

core is multiplying everything

[cyan sedge]

Oh wait nvm i see the brackets

[dull zenith]

[ BASE_STATS * ( 1 + .02 * lb ) + flat * lb + BOND_STATS ] * ( 1 + .02 * core )

I don't know how to make it more readable

[tender summit]

Manu is calculated after done calculating lb

Idk about core cuz I'm poor

@high kindle

[high kindle]

Can I have a link for the sheet you use? @tender summit

[tender summit]

I asked the owner, they don't want to share

I can teach you how to link those file json file

[tender summit]

[ BASE_STATS * ( 1 + .02 * lb ) + flat * lb + BOND_STATS + Recycle + Cube + Equipment]

Idk what is the interaction of recycle, equipment, cube to core

@still drift

[tender summit]

Core is finalized stat?

Like everything * (1 + 0.02 * core) ?

[molten robin]

recycle and cube were untested

but it was everything else at least

cube presumably acts as gear

recycle might count though

[still drift]

Gear definitely has no interaction with Cores/LB.

The stat it listed it provides is the stat it provides.

Unsure about Recycle tho. But the stat it provides is so meager that I'll hold off on it for now when I'm more free.

An easier way to see if there is any interaction with it :
Simply just upgrade your Recycling room and see if it actually gave the stat it listed.

[tender summit]

[ Base Stats * (1 + .02 * lb) + Flat * lb + GroupA ] * (1 + .02 * core) + GroupB

• Flat:
  + SSR: 3000 HP, 20 ATK, 100 DEF
  + SR : 2300 HP, 18 ATK, 90 DEF
• GroupA: Bond, Recycle
• GroupB: Gear, Cube

[tender summit]

Too poor

[still drift]

[tender summit]

@still drift How about overload substats?

[still drift]

What about them?

@tender summit

[tender summit]

How does substats interact with stats formula

[still drift]

They're not substats.

They're buffs.

[tender summit]

Oh, buffs only trigger when stage start?

[tender summit]

So this one is complete then

Unless I missing something else

[tender summit]

@still drift @molten robin

[molten robin]

as expected yea

[spare pine]

meth

[tender summit]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PW3DuNWf04-vmHdQn-qZ1HEgRoCBGCGNoJPi4LQ_3kU/edit#gid=1000064435

I gonna throw my sanity

Do not share this sheet to official server because it is considered datamine

[copper nexus]

simulation room buffs add to CP before battle start, not sure about cubes or OL

[severe silo]

Anyone ever did the math for the dps increase in upgrading scarlet’s skill from lv 4 to 7?

[still drift]

Iirc they're just a linear increase every level.

Assuming you're talking about s1

Not worth our time to really do any research into it. Simple multiplication.

[still drift]

Double check buff stacking in Sim Room, ensure that multiple buffs of the same name that target a Nikke multiple is working correctly.

Ill do some testing when I wake up or get off work

[still drift]

#questioning-centre message

Same SSR buffs did not stack.

Buffs across different rarities stack, but not similar rarities.

[fringe junco]

if I got this correct then a lvl 10 skill works at 100% of its ability but at level 1 it works at 50%

each level increases its effectiveness by 5% so 4 to 7 = 3 more levels = 15% better

just noticed some nikke follow this pattern but haven't checked them all to see if it is consistent

also sometimes parts of a skill aren't affected by a level up at all as they are maxed out from the start... utility mechanics such as cooldowns timer can be a part of this

[native bane]

not sure if this is the right channel/already known but
Leveling up a unit and then putting it in the sync device will give more « Growth Ranking Points » than putting in the unit in the sync device at level 1

[molten robin]

This is not a safe assumption, not all skills double in effectiveness

See: Alice burst

There's others too

[fringe junco]

ye plenty that behaves differently

[sweet ocean]

Gonna try Neve on GD tomorrow. I heard that she has great results

[dull zenith]

Neve is insane

[ashen fulcrum]

i dont remember but is sg team just best in general for Gd

[copper nexus]

Does anyone have the link to OP post (nga?) on how to dodge train green missiles

[sweet ocean]

I can do it pretty consistently

Cover at around 2:51-50~

[still drift]

Just take cover, that's it

Alteisen runs are just praying that 0 damage slips through at the beginning.

[copper nexus]

I mean the cover and uncover strat

the green missiles not the turrets

[still drift]

Ahhh

[copper nexus]

i-framing all missiles

apparently the OP for the strat was a chinese post so I'm assuming it was on nga but idk how to find it

seems harder to do than shinonono's strat but I still wanna include it and credit the OP

all I have is repost source

[still drift]

How much does MLB actually matter with Bond? (At 200).

At level 200, Modernia's base stats are as follows, LB0 :
HP: 474573
ATK: 21091
DEF: 2646

At Bond 10, (Max Bond for LB0)
They become :
483635
21494
2706

At Level200 LB3 Bond 40 :
564697
24756
3455

This means :
1.1676
1.1517
1.2767

16.7%+ HP
15.1%+ ATK
27.6%+ DEF

This may vary between Nikke Archetypes, so keep that in mind.

I forgot to do it for Bond30.
I'll do it tomorrow.

[sweet ocean]

Oh shit nice, landscape mode coming

Don't think it would be available that fast

[dim wolf]

why it wasnt available from release

[still drift]

They needed time to fix their shitty Alteisen cutscene

[cyan sedge]

This part seems confusing, did Noise even have a cd for her s2? The only 5s i can think of is the duration on her max hp buff

[sweet ocean]

what? They posted the balance notes already?

[cyan sedge]

Ye #ark-news

[high kindle]

Mistranslated, its duration

[copper nexus]

2. Fixed an issue where Current HP is affected by other buffs and increases substantially when Max HP buff is applied.
what is this talking about??? I thought we confirmed that current hp increase from max hp is NOT affected by hp potency

[molten robin]

not sure what it's talking about

but it wasn't affected by hp potency, at least

[copper nexus]

the only thing I can think of then is stacking Max HP buffs

was there abnormal behaviour there

could somebody confirm this please

[tender summit]

I already showed the formula before, at best 140% increase if core 7

[dull zenith]

Fixed an issue where Novel’s and Isabel’s damage increase Debuff does not cause actual damage increase effect.

Novel might be really good now, if her insane damage taken debuff has not been working this entire time

[molten robin]

it's been working in general

that may be specific scenarios

[native bane]

+40% or +140%?

40% im assuming

[tender summit]

140

Wait, only 14%, my bad

[still drift]

You're only accounting for the 2% scaling, not the bond stats.

People wanted the bond stats included.

[sweet ocean]

Someone want to keep an eye out for Guilty's ATK copy.
See if it's applied pre-buffs(raw base ATK) or post-buffs(including personal ATK% buffs)

because frankly 40%+ atk copy that's up all the time is pretty disgusting

[willow pecan]

especially if it updates, as in after the next stack is added/refreshed

so you can have 120% atk buffed scarlet being copied on a shotgun

[dull zenith]

Like me. It was apparent to me that bond level cap increase is meant to be the true benefit of limit breaking

[sweet ocean]

12. Fixed an issue where Novel’s and Isabel’s damage increase Debuff does not cause actual damage increase effect.
    wew isabel's getting bumped

[still drift]

Isabel definitely kinda weird in GD

First time I tried her and her damage just didnt seem to provide that much when I looked at her numbers

[sweet ocean]

neve did more in my runs

that gal ain't right

[willow pecan]

I'm very interested in the performance of a liter novel dolla isabel helm comp

5s burst steroids

onto eternity

[native bane]

this sheet says the rate for 3rd line is 10%

but nikke.gg says 30%

[vernal coral]

oh, that reminds me, anyone else run into Rapunzel's revive bug more frequently lately? Wondering if there's any correlation between gear/skill level for that

[dull zenith]

Honestly I've yet to see Rapunzel's revive actually revive a character with any real amount of HP, for either my team or the opponents

[vernal coral]

Up until quite recently for me it worked as advertised every time and is part of how I was able to push so far under power

[native bane]

@tender summit since I believe you made this chart

do you know which is the right value?

[severe silo]

With the skill adjustment, how does it affect rapunzel?

[cloud elk]

Doesnt seem to heavily fix rapunzel since they also tweaked something basically no changes

With the new fix now: from what I understamd, you only heal if you get the maxHP buff.

Rapunzel has 20/15 duration/cd but they "nerf" duration to 15s

Which means she can still heal as the skill runs out 1st

[sweet ocean]

I don't know if Novel's worth it in SIs now

I mean that's a giant multi right there, and she has def down too

[still drift]

Waiting for the patch to hit

[copper nexus]

I'm testing novel and it seems like her burst is working

[meager elbow]

I timed the second Noise GIF in the patch note. And found that her buff is still has 5 s duration. Hopefully it's just a graphic mistake.

[copper nexus]

may have found some possible bugs for novel and isabel

[copper nexus]

yeah I can't tell if that gif is supposed to be just with max hp fix or also with the noise 5s -> 1.8s adjustment

very confusing

is damage increase % not supposed to be affected by enemy defence?

[dull zenith]

That gif is a comparison for Max HP refreshes no longer increasing HP. It’s obviously still the 5s duration so it can be easily compared to the gif literally right above it, which conveys the current mechanic

[sweet ocean]

how? The patch isn't in until 12th.

[copper nexus]

because she was always working LOL

[sweet ocean]

then what are they fixin her for

[copper nexus]

who knows

[molten robin]

According to the formula, defense doesn't matter no

[copper nexus]

that's what it looks like from the formula but novel burst seems affected by it

unless I'm being stupid

and not understanding something

[molten robin]

Wdym?

[copper nexus]

might have to redo the tests just in case I accidentally mixed some things up with range bonus

[still drift]

Would have to be a big jump.
Range bonus would be 10%
Novel's Level 1 burst would be 30%

I think Novel's burst not working only occurs in certain scenarios or doesn't work only sometimes ™️

[copper nexus]

I found my issue lol