Research Dungeon

[vernal coral]

might have to try that

[dull zenith]

It's looking like consensus thus far about XRupee is pretty aligned with my pre-launch impressions #1049651485086060584 message

DEF buffs suck, she has poor DPS and thus her damage-oriented self heals suck, and the only good things in her kit are reload speed buff and 7.9% lower burst cooldown

[copper nexus]

she increases energy gain not lower cd

but yeah

[vernal coral]

Yeah, I have her 2* and can't help but feel base Rapunzel was basically equivalent if not better

[dull zenith]

I don't have Scarlet so I guess I'm hoarding my gems/pulls even longer for Anne/Modernia

Although I really like how lewd XRupee is and I heard her level 10 bond story ||lets you dick her||

[vernal coral]

kinda want to finish her 3* but also kind of don't want to use more material pursuing her...

[dim wolf]

did some tests just for fun
TLDR:

1. Sugar Burst > Drake Burst
2. Reload Speed reliant teams sucks
3. Harran still good
4. Rupee still good

[copper nexus]

have you tried xrupee+privaty or admi+privaty though

[dim wolf]

yes

not that great

[copper nexus]

liter, admi, scarlet, alice, privaty?

[dim wolf]

no Liter to test

[copper nexus]

ah rip

[dim wolf]

the problem is all speed reload buff units have terrible self dmg

so it becomes kinda wasted in the end

and you need 1 RL unit in team

otherwise burst generation is giga terrible

better 2

[copper nexus]

hmm harran does decent with reload speed and has good burst gen

[molten robin]

With Alice burst fixed she should have the highest damage burst in the game when built around

And she's dependent on reload speed, so that's worth exploring more

[dull zenith]

My favorite thing about this patch is that they didn't fix Soline, so I can continue making fun of her and her simps

[molten robin]

Replacing yuni with admi and privaty with Maxwell is prob better

Well, depending on whether you need the aoe stun

[molten robin]

In your tests with xrupee + privaty, did you have reload cube on scarlet?

[willow pecan]

I agree, yeah. For Alice DPS alone Maxwell setup probably better.

[molten robin]

Then again, for pure dps privaty in place of xrupee would be better

[dim wolf]

ofc

[willow pecan]

Especially for screenwipe

[molten robin]

my main complaint is the delay between xrupee burst and burst 1

I wonder why that's there

it probably eats away any buff she provides to burst charge though

[vernal coral]

Actually surprised it was this close. I was manualling Harran, made a couple of mistakes

[vernal coral]

Fully agreed, it is very jarring

[molten robin]

that's the kind of thing I can see being complained about/fixed

copium

[dim wolf]

do you have OG Rupee/Dolla?

Also Yuni is giga copium now

[molten robin]

she's still good for alice, but otherwise yea

either way I'm always going to suggest to anyone picking up a copy of xrupee, because she does various interesting things that can become more desired later, even if it isnt now

[dim wolf]

well, yeah I guess

doesnt worth MLB

but copy is okay

[molten robin]

mlb isnt really "worth it" for anyone in terms of stat gains

[wintry ravine]

people finally starting to see the fact that scarlet kills herself is more than a minor issue

I did suspect the Xruppe + privaty + scarlet combo would end up a bit jank because there isn't a particular good way to slot in heals

I think people are conflating the performance of that particular team comp with that of XRupee herself though, I still think she is very, very good

[dim wolf]

?

never was an issue for me

XRupee just deal crap dmg and dies instantly

[wintry ravine]

taunters are pretty much always the first to die, you kinda want that tbh

[dim wolf]

https://streamable.com/fzvbnn

https://streamable.com/biu04n

for comparison

[wintry ravine]

hmm, the only taunter I've any exp with is noah and I guess she gets the 3 seconds of invuln to soften the blow but she still taunts for an additional 7 seconds after that, as well as pulling aggro with her basic attacks. She lives pretty well for me up to 14-24 atm

I think taunters probably just aren't particularly good when you are pushing much higher CP

[dim wolf]

It's Chapter 15

[dim wolf]

yeah but what the point then

if you met CP requirements you can clear even with dogshit party

[wintry ravine]

well they can shine in stages where you struggle to push until you are near the requirement perhaps

[molten robin]

there's a lot of the game that doesnt have a penalty

but yea, there's also anti-synergy between taunters and centi

aoe shields means you want damage spread out

[wintry ravine]

on paper I think XRupee should end up being tankier than Noah and like I said I've found Noah very useful so shrug

[molten robin]

noah increases her defense by a lot for 10s when she bursts, too

she's tankier than xrupee

[wintry ravine]

tankier but no self healing and noah taunts a lot more too

would have to really test a lot between them

[molten robin]

what happens when 2 taunts are active?

do enemies just randomly attack both?

[dim wolf]

I think CN tierlist correctly accessed XRupee value

[wintry ravine]

I imagine the 2nd taunt probably overwrites the first but who knows

[dull zenith]

Taunts def override each other. I learned this the hard way when I died in Gravedigger-S a couple weeks back because Maiden's taunt overrode Noah's

[wintry ravine]

[dull zenith]

So... if you want to have someone taunt, don't have someone else taunt

[dim wolf]

the only thing that can save XRupee is 100% reload speed, instead of 66%

[wintry ravine]

@dim wolf I guess Noah is just plain the most functional taunter for random stages. When you think about the interaction.. Noah will taunt just like XRupee and take all those shots but no damage for 3 secs. In those 3 secs though your burst 3's will wipe the screen so the remaining aggro for the next 7 seconds isn't nearly as bad

[dim wolf]

tbh she would be way better without taunt

[wintry ravine]

in fact I wonder how taunt even works

like say new mobs that come on screen

are they taunted or do they have to be on screen when the aoe taunt triggers

[molten robin]

I'd assume only ones on the screen

should be an easy test though

[wintry ravine]

probably works that way..

I guess all this explains why I don't have too much trouble keeping noah alive

[dim wolf]

After preliminary testing, it seems Winter Rupee has an unavoidable 1 full second delay between her burst and the second burst 1, which lowers her value significantly. Please wait to pull until testing is complete if you are uncertain.

Totally agree

[wintry ravine]

I don't find the delay all that bad lol

[molten robin]

it's definitely an issue

it effectively wipes away her burst charge bonus

[wintry ravine]

how's it wipe her bonus?

[molten robin]

it adda an extra 1s to every cycle

the faster you go from burst 1 to full burst, the sooner you start charging again

[dim wolf]

ye, you effectively lose last Burst if you use Volume/Litter

[keen timber]

The burst charge bonus was pretty minor already since you are more gated by cooldowns generally

But the delay should be changed

[molten robin]

laughs in dolla

[wintry ravine]

I mean it's a negative but it's pretty minor thing I think

more concerning is her just taunting to death in higher difficulty

[copper nexus]

I think the delay cancels out her “free extra burst” value altogether :/

[molten robin]

well those arent directly correlated

it does wipe out her burst generation bonus though

[vernal coral]

I got Dolla just today, but do not havr OG Rupee.

@copper nexus it isn't a full cancel, you still get much faster reloading during full burst

[copper nexus]

she delays your burst timings

and does not get ally burst buffs for a full second during her burst buffs

[molten robin]

the point of being a "free" burst isnt speed, it's being able to use the burst of another character

[dim wolf]

Try to use Dolla instead XRupee

[vernal coral]

they're seperate burst tiers, though? Not sure what you're getting at

[keen timber]

Is there a reason why people value her reburst mechanic over other flex slots that still give their buffs without needing their burst?

[copper nexus]

yes and I would rather have a lower cooldown with 3 bursts than longer cooldown 4 burst

[dim wolf]

I'm think XRupee does negative dmg in your case

[copper nexus]

this

[dim wolf]

So if you replace her with Dolla it will be an improvement

[molten robin]

well the direct comparison, admi, requires her burst

so it isn't quite the same

[wintry ravine]

the most direct comparisons to Xrupee are in fact Privaty and Noah if you think about how they work and team comps.

Xrupee functions just like a Privaty when privaty is 5th slot in a 1-1-3 comp

[vernal coral]

Ah, I see, I was actually replacing Rapunzel with XRupee so I was trying a couple other things at the same time. Dolla's burst cd isn't needed in the team at the moment but she probably would give more overall if I got her to a similar state due to the atk related buffs. Loss of power though, so a bit harder to push

[wintry ravine]

and she functions very similar to Noah in a 1-2-2 comp

the most meta comp is liter - centi - scarlet - harran - drake (but this could as well be privaty)

[keen timber]

The direct comparison would be Privaty tbh, who gives a 23% attack and 51% reload speed buff

[wintry ravine]

so if you replace drake / privaty in that comp with Xrupee and think about how they work she is on paper pretty good, it's just you lose dps for some safety in theory.. but looks like her taunt kills her too much

[molten robin]

not in a 100% reload speed comp

[keen timber]

You still need admi or privaty to cap reload speed in Xrupee team atm

She can't do it herself

[molten robin]

yes, my point is in that comp, you're comparing xrupee to admi more than privaty

[keen timber]

100% reload comp privaty would be better if you value the damage over defensive buffs

Privaty caps out as well

[molten robin]

^

privaty also offers her buff without needing a burst...which is good!

[keen timber]

But if you are running xrupee over admi with privaty you are using privaty burst lol

[molten robin]

yes, that's true

[keen timber]

Was thinking more along the lines of Privaty and Xrupee being considered as that filler slot that doesn't normally want to burst

[dim wolf]

Like what role XRupee fill?

[wintry ravine]

I kinda want to test is pepper is a better pairing in Xrupee comps

[dim wolf]

If you want more dmg you use additional Burst3 support unit

If you want sustain you use Rapunzel

Or other healer

[vernal coral]

To me, she was a Rapunzel alternate

[dim wolf]

Giga cope replacement

[keen timber]

I don't think xrupee burst gimmick is bad, just not super functionally different from someone like Privaty if the defensive buffs don't hold much value. If xrupee's kit was way more crazy I might have changed my view on it

[vernal coral]

I mean, I have rapunzel, I was testing to see how she would work instead

[dim wolf]

Same

[dim wolf]

Fair

I also have her. Just my impression

[wintry ravine]

Xrupee pepper probably works well in stages where DPS isn't too much of an issue

[dim wolf]

[vernal coral]

Ah

I feel someone like Emma or Mary would likely add more overall value/sustain at this point, too

I don't have Mary but do have Emma

[wintry ravine]

yeah Emma pepper is very good that is true

[vernal coral]

Pepper kinda goes without saying now that her bug is fixed

[dim wolf]

Emma kinda underwhelming tbh

Rapunzel just better

[wintry ravine]

emma is great in simulation

[keen timber]

She's a good Scarlet multiplier since capping reload with Privaty early on is hard to remove the mag size debuff downside, but yeah

[dim wolf]

And don't even need to use her burst

[dim wolf]

She's not sadly

Barely any increase in DPS

Way effective to add another Burst3 unit

[vernal coral]

I'm probably going to switch back to 2-1-2 with Rapunzel

and then drop Helm for Scarlet and try that as a pushing setup

[wintry ravine]

to be fair she will probably have future team comps

[molten robin]

she has a present comp in alice

[keen timber]

Wym? Going from a 4.3 second mag rotation to 3.3 seconds or w/e is almost a 50% damage increase for 10 seconds

[molten robin]

people hard sleeping on alice now that bursts are fixed

[vernal coral]

Alice has somewhat of a Laplace issue but not as bad

but she does a lot in her burst

[molten robin]

im still waiting to see a test of no reload no charge alice in practice

I have all the characters but lack the skill levels lol

[dim wolf]

In theory yes, in reality no

[vernal coral]

I tried a slightly lower variant of it on intercept s, lost a few thousand power dropping to that team but dps was about the same as what I'd tried without building around her

she absolutely murdered circles during burst though

[dim wolf]

I have XRupee, I tested all available for me speed reload comps, very underwhelming result

[molten robin]

what was your charge speed reduction in that variant?

and what was your team?

[keen timber]

If you are referring to delayed enemy spawns, you also have to consider potential reloads between them that you otherwise wouldn't finish.

[dim wolf]

Nah bro, I just literally tested it in union shooting range

[keen timber]

Oh yeah I forgot we use shooting range and damage screens to test things

[dim wolf]

Dmg difference still present

And its still the most consistent way to test things

[wintry ravine]

there is someone else who is pretty good along with Xrupee / Privaty who no one talks about

[dim wolf]

If you want to see how fast XRupee dies when she taunts you can scroll above

[keen timber]

Not really, there can be massively different outcomes every single run.

[dim wolf]

?

Not really. And yes I tried several times

[keen timber]

Idk how you expect to get accurate data when ranges can be so drastic

[dim wolf]

Bro they literally aren't

[keen timber]

And shooting range doesn't behave like other content regardless

[wintry ravine]

Laplace gains a lot from no reload speed and has a last bullet passive privaty halfing clips actually benefits her as opposed to making scarlet kill herslef faster. We already know laplace is very good in many places

[dim wolf]

Yeah Laplace good against bosses

[wintry ravine]

laplace is good evrywhere bro

[dim wolf]

Kinda sadge you can't control her anymore

[dim wolf]

Bro thats too cope

[wintry ravine]

I've seen rapunzel out dps scarlet just cause she is aoe rocket launcher

[dim wolf]

I would never take Laplace over Scarlet or Harran on mob stage

[wintry ravine]

you should probably try laplace over scarlet, you'll be surprised

[dim wolf]

Interesting results, would be nice to see screenshots

[dim wolf]

I tried. Scarlet too broken sadly

[vernal coral]

iirc it was XRupee/Liter/Yuni/Alice/Priv?

For charge speed:
63.28% from Alice burst
8.48% from Alice Skill 1
5.38% from Yuni skill 1

Reload:
39.6% rupee
32.3% priv

like I said, lesser variant but it was very good output still during the burst.
I realized afterward I hadn't moved reload speed cube back onto Alice when I moved it off earlier for running some EX stages, but I was out of runs so couldn't try again. Intended to try again with the cube afterwards, but I don't want to skill those particular things up right now due to my team being mid-reorg

[dim wolf]

Btw if you reach 100% charge speed you will deal way less dmg

[molten robin]

you've seen it in practice?

[dim wolf]

Charge bonus doesn't get applied

Another bug

[keen timber]

Was it even possible to see in practice with bugged skills

[molten robin]

no

[dim wolf]

You will just spam normal hits

[molten robin]

only after burst was fixed

interesting bug, but that should be fixed eventually too

in the meantime you can aim for just under 100%

[dim wolf]

Just make sure you have 99% instead

But not 100

[molten robin]

so there's a LOT of damage that can be gained here, prob something like 4x

[keen timber]

Do you have a source for this bug? If anything I'd like to look at the frames when pushing 100% charge speed

[dim wolf]

From my whale friend on JP server

[keen timber]

Oh no video sadly?

[dim wolf]

ye

well, you can can upgrade Alice skill and record video yourself if you want

it's more like a warning

[keen timber]

Not saying he is lying, I just really want to see the frames per Alice shot since I was looking into her scaling

Would be nice to confirm if my theoretical max bullets during burst was correct or pretty much off by 1 or 2 shots

Nice warning to have though

[molten robin]

I think miranda might be much better than liter for alice comp

in fact, almost certainly is

[vernal coral]

Ah, I used to use Miranda often when Helm was my main dps before I got Liter.

I can slot her in after refresh

[wintry ravine]

gave XRupee a quick try in tribe tower, she died on first taunt to a suicide spider.. tried it with my noah comp, cleared the stage first time

[molten robin]

depends on the cdr

[vernal coral]

Would probably need to drop Yuni for Dolla, perhaps?

[molten robin]

purely in terms of buffs though, miranda is pretty crazy

[molten robin]

depends on how quickly the team charges burst

[keen timber]

Miranda certainly makes Alice get the most out of her burst. Her crit damage values are solid too since Alice can "get lucky" since she shoots less overall shots.

The rest of the team does lose attack buffs though

[wintry ravine]

best thing about pulling Xrupee might be I now realize how valuable my Noah is

[molten robin]

they all gain 33% crit damage though, so not a total loss

[vernal coral]

I had to use noah when I had a 20% deficit against suicide bots

three waves of them

first wave harran wipe, second wave noah taunt, third wave harran wipe again

[wintry ravine]

yeah I use Noah loads, I actually said once she's the best pilgrim to pull 😛

[keen timber]

Probably more fun to see 300-400k Alice core hits anyways haha

[molten robin]

liter buffs are just really short for alice

[keen timber]

And the mag size increase won't do anything in that team, yeah

[molten robin]

she doesnt even get the full 5s of the main attack buff because there's a delay between burst 1 and full burst

[keen timber]

Yup

Seeing burst skill level fix was a nice surprise, instantly started raising my Alice skills after I read the notice.

[dull zenith]

So what's a good Alice comp?

I like to manually control her normal fire to quick fire, and auto her burst

Liter, Poli, Dolla, Alice and... Privaty?

[molten robin]

poli and liter prob get dropped

[dull zenith]

Doesn't Liter allow Alice to use burst more often

I know her atk buff is too short

[molten robin]

why would alice burst more often?

[dull zenith]

Cuz Liter reduces cooldowns

[molten robin]

not enough to run a single b3 though

which means you're still alternating B3s

[dull zenith]

Right

But you're running through b3's more quickly

[molten robin]

only if you're cooldown capped

which I wouldnt expect you to be

[dull zenith]

Hmm will need testing

Poli is in there for burst gen

[wintry ravine]

speaking of which I think I realized something about our upcoming Anne

I don't think you are actually locked to a burst II 20 sec CD ally

you could run her with a 40 sec CD ally pretty sure if you use liter

have the 40 sec go first, then anne

first 3 rotations obv fine and I think you should be able to do anne on the 4th too with liter stacked CD, you might just need to wait a bit

if I'm right her value goes up a lot in my mind

[vernal coral]

I've run comps like that before, you do end up having to hold a bit before you go through the full burst set, especially if you have fast burst building, but it's possible. The waiting is the problem.

[wintry ravine]

if it doesn't quite work now it would def work with mordernia too

Anne stonks

[vernal coral]

relatively average burst build I think wouldn't have the same issue

[wintry ravine]

means you could use Noah or Poli along with Anne

very nice

Volume / Poli / Anne would give you a big crit + attack boost for your core 3's

I know liter's attack is more valuable than Volumes crit in isolation.. but most burst 3's give themselves attack boosts and this team has two massive attack boosts in the middle slots too so maybe Volume works better

get the maths wizards on it

or is the crit formula still complete ass

[dim wolf]

it's less ass

but Liter still better

[wintry ravine]

I guess sugar is a gigachad now with her attack speed

the other thing to bear in mind with volume vs liter for that comp is that Anne only gives her attack buff to Attackers so it doesn't benefit Liter but it would Volume

if Volume isn't better than Liter even in that comp after the changes then she is forever truly trash

[vapid geode]

[dim wolf]

so what your opinion on XRupee atm Antillar?

I got giga disappointed

good thing I decided to check first before going for MLB

[vapid geode]

She's too niche and even at the niche, she isn't anything exciting

too many restrictions and beside the re-enter, she has 0 things to help the team

Yeah, Reload speed nice bla bla, but only for Scarlet

and you can get just Admi + Privaty and they will do more than XRupee

still, funny that the re-enter actually fucks you a lot with the 1 second internal cooldown

She's maybe B tier, and that's being generous

[dim wolf]

yee

the thing is, I think reload speed just too weak anyway

only unit with reload speed who worth to use is Privaty

using Admi is just pure DPS loss

same sadly goes for XRupee

[vapid geode]

if you don't have any better Burst II, Admi works well

[dim wolf]

well, thankfully I have Centi/Rupee

[vapid geode]

yeah

[dim wolf]

I wish to have Dolla tho

also looks like devs know about lags, so praying it will be fixed tomorrow

[molten robin]

what does the reload speed cube max out at for reload speed?

I assume that's been datamined

[dim wolf]

well, usually all upgrade are linear

so you can just check lvl 1 -> lvl 2 upgrade and extrapolate to max lvl

[molten robin]

we can already see that isnt true so

[dim wolf]

Either way it gonna take a big while to max it out

[molten robin]

not very helpful I'm afraid

[dim wolf]

where?

[molten robin]

you dont have a level 2 cube?

[dim wolf]

I only have lvl 2 cubes

[molten robin]

1-2 was like, a 3.x% increase, and 2-3 increases the rank of the reload skill too, and it jumps to 22.27%

so I can't extrapolate anything from that

[dim wolf]

I see

well that info should be somewhere I bet

[molten robin]

I dont even know the max rank of the cube for that matter

[dim wolf]

lvl 10 I assume?

[molten robin]

xrupee will be a lot better in the future if her + cube reaches 100%

since the magnitude of her buff is higher than privaty's or admi's, though that advantage is wasted if you have to run 2 of them and go over 100% anyways

cube has to reach 37%, which may not be unreasonable if level 3 is 22%

[molten robin]

@copper nexus you seen anything on max cube upgrades?

[copper nexus]

no :(

[molten robin]

@unborn glacier can you check the doc for cube upgrades?

@wintry ravine fun note about taunt I just noticed, is suicide bots at least keep jumping to the spot where xrupee was after she dies due to a taunt

[wintry ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/smirk-just-as-planned-plans-merlin-stare-gif-11049870

[keen timber]

Is overkill damage ever accounted for in the context of screen wipes

[molten robin]

it is

if you mean the damage report

overkill counts for it

[keen timber]

Say there is 10 enemies on the screen, eight have 50k hp and two have 500k hp and Scarlet hits every one for 200k hp.

If you take the damage report literally, you'd say "hey my scarlet did 2mil damage", but in reality 1.2mil of that damage was overkilling the trash mobs

Wouldn't that be something to take into consideration when evaluating buffs?

For example if you buffed your Scarlet up to 300k per enemy, the damage screen would say 3mil but you actually only got an extra 100k damage off the two 500k hp enemies

So it'd be a 25% damage increase rather than a 50% increase

[molten robin]

so you're saying you believe that damage buffs are, at least to some extent, overrated by damage reports

and indeed, scarlet's own damage by extension is overrated

by some fractional %

[keen timber]

I think people should at least try to consider some variables that can inflate the realistic benefits

Instead of taking the end result too literally

When it's reasonable to do so, of course

I think this helps for situations like this going forward;

Unit A does 500k damage map clear and has no extra benefits

Unit B does 300k damage map clear but also buffs the entire team

Unit A will have an inflated damage result due to overkill damage, but the potential buffs from Unit B might have made the elite enemies die much faster in practice

[dull zenith]

Wait, the game counts damage overhang as damage output?

[keen timber]

Yes

[dull zenith]

Lol

[copper nexus]

how was this confirmed?

[keen timber]

If an enemy has 1hp and you smack it for 1mil, the damage screen will say 1mil instead of 1

[molten robin]

yea I tested myself

I hit a low level enemy with a sniper

[dull zenith]

Game dev is hard

[molten robin]

compared to killing the same enemy with an smg

[copper nexus]

[copper nexus]

well that’s annoying

[molten robin]

exact same enemy in a low lost sector

[solid relic]

Probably worth a bug report

[keen timber]

Felt it important to bring up since a lot of people take the damage screen too literally without accounting for such bias

[copper nexus]

I’ll add it to the bug list

[keen timber]

Nothing is surprising at this point with Nikke

[copper nexus]

added

[keen timber]

Ty auster

[dull zenith]

I mean, it's probably by design and not a bug for it to show the damage as 1mil as you're doing the attack

but for damage reports to show it doesn't feel right

Due to the player use cases for damage reports

[keen timber]

I doubt it's a bug as well, but yeah it leads to people misinterpreting the end results to an extent

[dull zenith]

Right

[keen timber]

Someone like Harran hitting everything for 500k is going to look godlike on the end screen but in reality the total damage dealt is quite a bit lower

[dull zenith]

Yeah when I was a heals officer for a progression raid group in an MMO, I'd penalize healers who overhealed because that's just poor mana management

Trying to get on top of the heals charts

[keen timber]

Are you gunna punish pepper too in Nikke?

Her regen is counting for a huge amount now since it still ticks at full haha

[dull zenith]

Define punish

I feel sorry for all good Burst I characters because Liter exists

[keen timber]

I think the 5 second buff timer can eventually be used against Liter, but yeah she makes other slots hard to justify even in optimal scenarios for them

Her kit is just stacked with relevant buffs

[dull zenith]

Yeah 5s doesn't pair well with bursts that take time to effect, like Laplace, Alice, Modernia, etc.

It pairs well with all "Inflict nnn% of atk to all/single enemy"

[keen timber]

Laplace still gets good value out of it tbh

[dull zenith]

That's good

[keen timber]

But Alice is a good current example

[dull zenith]

Modernia will struggle because her burst is 15s

[keen timber]

She also doesn't benefit from the mag size increase

[dull zenith]

True

[keen timber]

I do think Modernia looks spicy for staggered trash clear for the reasons I brought up above

15 seconds of deleting mobs is pretty valuable vs wiping a single wave with overkill damage

[dull zenith]

Yeah Modernia has potential. I don't really have a strong opinion yet

Been thinking too much about xrupee

[copper nexus]

btw I remember seeing one bug where someone dealt overkill damage on gravedigger, but it seems to have a low trigger rate

[keen timber]

We'll have to test her of course

[copper nexus]

so the overkill doesn’t always trigger maybe, at least on interception bosses

[copper nexus]

I agree, good potential

[still drift]

5 Xrupees looping B1 in Coop

Never fullbursting

[dull zenith]

Is single pull better than multi-pull? 🙂

[dull zenith]

HMMMMM

[keen timber]

You can only get 1 xmas rupee in single pull, but you can get 10 xmas rupee in multi pull

[dull zenith]

Did you test this

I have 108 regular pull tickets

I haven't gotten an SSR in 130 pulls, so I stopped using them

I'm now thinking of using them

But I have PTSD.

[keen timber]

I have an unnamed source that we should totally trust

[dull zenith]

So I'm wondering if 1-pull will break my bad luck

Figured Research Dungeon was the place with the answers here

[keen timber]

Jokes aside, hope your pulls do go well

[molten robin]

No answers to rng

Good luck

[dull zenith]

I'm serious. Is there any rumor that single pulls are better?

[molten robin]

If there are rumors there's no evidence to support them

[dull zenith]

Fack

[sweet ocean]

ngl when her kit first leaked I thought she'd be a good meta stayer

I mean it's a free burst without competing with Liter. Turns out opportunity costs exist

mildly related, 8th of Dec sales

[keen timber]

Yup, her being locked to 2-1-2 comps was a big red flag for me

[stray solar]

How's vesti now with bugs fixed

Heard she's pretty good now

[keen timber]

Actually not bad, I like her 15 second delayed DoT that helps kill low hp enemies

[dull zenith]

That's not quite apples to apples because who knows what day the other titles drop their xmas event/big spend stuff

Probably closer to the latter half of Dec if I were to take a guess

[sweet ocean]

so there are 100% performance issues in this update, not just for emulator users
but also phones too

[solid relic]

Yeah, my Pixel 5a has about the same amount of stuttering as LDplayer9 does

[dull zenith]

There is a noticeable periodic microstutter on iPhone

in LDPlayer those microstutters last like 0.5s

[atomic gyro]

They pretty much fixed the bugs at the cost of performance

[molten robin]

And they added the full burst aim bug

Which is crippling tbh

[keen timber]

Coulda swore the burst aim bug was in the game before the patch, maybe to an lesser extent

I've had GD runs where my Lap would target the center of the boss instead of following my cursor

[molten robin]

I had never seen it at least, but it could have been certainly

But now it's basically every FB

[keen timber]

I just never complained since it was a boost to my damage output since it got core multiplier lol

[molten robin]

Laplace doesn't get core I didn't think?

[keen timber]

She does on burst

[molten robin]

Allen said before it can't core hit

The laser

[keen timber]

Isn't this core hit though

[sweet ocean]

what I found when I was lurking through the channel
Laplace's burst's first part can benefit from Core Hit + Crit + Full Burst.
True DMG part can't Core Hit, but can crit and benefits from Full Burst.

[keen timber]

Ya maybe they meant the true damage part

[sweet ocean]

the true DMG is the damage lines at the bottom

[keen timber]

Main laser gets all the massive multipliers though

[molten robin]

Ah it was prob the true damage part I saw mentioned

I did get Laplace myself rolling for xrupee but haven't taken her for much of a spin

[keen timber]

She's worth raising for Special Interception

But no rush obviously

I use her for Sim room 5 too

Good for melting the boss rooms

[unborn glacier]

LapLace true Damage cant core hit (thats the white damage you see in this screenshot)

[keen timber]

Yeah I was aware of that, they just thought you meant she couldn't core hit at all

[unborn glacier]

ahh

[keen timber]

Just a misunderstanding

It'd be pretty silly if the true damage part also got core multiplier haha

[solid relic]

Can confirm that it was present before the patch. Happened all the time to me.

[unborn glacier]

i an also confirm that the full burst aim bug, was present before at a much lesser extent

[sweet ocean]

ngl the daily gems from rupee's gifts is a big help

I won't have trouble pitying mord now

[sweet ocean]

what the hell

is Coop up?

[keen timber]

Yup it's up now

[sweet ocean]

ok I'm bringing my goddess Pepper
and maybe Drake to fill b3s

[molten robin]

tbh im prob starting to go crazy, but my opinion of liter is starting to fall just a bit

she's amazing but honeymoon phase is over

[sweet ocean]

her critical weakness is
all of her shit last only 5s

[molten robin]

right

[sweet ocean]

and having like near zero dmg ig

[molten robin]

modernia is kind of a perfect foil to liter

youll get like 4s of her buff over the 15s burst lol

but isabel comps? liter is a god

[dull zenith]

Wait co-op is up?

[molten robin]

yea

[dull zenith]

Anyone here interested in an NA party?

[keen timber]

She isn't immune from future unit creep for sure. I think she'll hold up a lot better than most current characters though.

[molten robin]

oh yea definitely

[keen timber]

Getting both a strong attack buff and cooldown reduction in a single unit won't be common I'd imagine.

[molten robin]

and a...unique? form of sustain via cover healing

[keen timber]

Some 15 second burst comps might lean away from that though

[molten robin]

at least I dont think anyone else does that rn

[keen timber]

Yeah she's just stacked with buffs and no dead stats really outside the crit damage lol

Even then, still free damage

[molten robin]

on a different topic, I'm hoping my KR brothers are outraged by the 1s delay on xrupee burst lol

I need that fixed copium

[keen timber]

Kr bros only ones that can save her

[molten robin]

I had never paid attention to it before, but you can see it happen on regular bursts too, the counter clockwise gcd-like animation

it just appears to have no function until now

I suspect that was a dropped or changed mechanic

[sweet ocean]

this game has gcds between burst phases too

2-3s to reach full burst?

if that's the case then litter's fat atk% buff is shorter than 3-4s

[molten robin]

not that long p sure

also xrupee delay looks like 1.5s to me, not 1s

not sure where 1s came from but I just did some time tests

[sweet ocean]

that's gigantic

[molten robin]

im timing more like 1.6-1.7s, but in reality I'm starting from press of input to end of gcd so there will be some input delay/animation going on there

and slight user error

1.5 seems the likely number

but yea that's a lot

That's definitely more than the time you save from her burst generation buff, and that doesn't kick in until she stacks her buff

So she's slowing cycles down even with her generation buff

It's just so jarring I don't see the purpose

The delay exacerbates her squishiness because she'll sometimes die before I can even pepper burst lol

Without the delay you could more reliably heal and/or map wipe before she dies

And then you saved some damage on others

[still drift]

I think Wrupee is going to be an A

An extremely generous rating imo

Beat out by Noise by stronger regen and taunt.
Only slight redeeming factor is her Reload Spd and minor def buffs.

[molten robin]

@still drift you havent seen max cube buff values, have you?

[still drift]

I could look for them if that's what you're asking for?

But no. I haven't.

[molten robin]

well that would be the followup question, yea

[still drift]

👍 I'll take a look.

[molten robin]

I speculated earlier that if reload cube can reach 37%, then xrupee can provide solo 100% reload speed, since the magnitude of her buff is a good bit higher than privaty or admi

it just isnt taken advantage of if you have to run 2 reload buffers anyways

level 3 is 22%, but no idea if it stops scaling like that or even what the max lvl of cube is

[still drift]

@molten robin Skill Level 10 tops off the Reload Speed at 32.5

But I don't think that you're getting this skill anytime soon.

Unless Union Raid really gives you loads of currency.

[molten robin]

that's short of the 37 needed anyways

[still drift]

20/22.5/25/27.5/30/32.5

[molten robin]

not that reload speed needs to be 100% exactly

[still drift]

Does 100% actually cut the animation off? I wasnt paying attention during Co-op

[molten robin]

looks like no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IssDW7FioGM

assuming this is still the current function

this was from the 27th

I did see a clip floating around earlier of units not having their ammo reduced though, so idk if the function of 100% reload changed or if there's a new bug

[keen timber]

Funny enough it cuts off full reload for RL and Snipers though

Since they are forced into reload position after shots anyways

They just insta reload between each shots

[keen timber]

This is what happens with RL and Snipers, they instareload the bullet they last shot

[molten robin]

ah makes sense

[willow pecan]

so maybe xruppe benefits alice more than scarlet? 🤔

alice and harran being the only snipers I know of with good dps

[still drift]

Some math would need to be done

[dull zenith]

It's hard for XRupee to benefit anyone if she's dead

[ornate solar]

do we have xrupee verdict now?

do i regret LB3'ing her

[dull zenith]

She's mid

[molten robin]

well you shouldnt regret it because it doesnt really matter who you lb3

[dull zenith]

If you LB3'd her for her superier lewd design and bond 10 seggs, then you shouldn't regret it

[ornate solar]

yea i like her face

[dull zenith]

I like her coochie and tits

[molten robin]

the stat gain from lb3 is tiny

[ornate solar]

also i felt obligated to LB3 since i got early dupes

hmmmm i see

btw i wanna ask this

i delete it on the other thread since i notice we have this here

this is on range full auto

[molten robin]

squints no still cant see those numbers

[ornate solar]

hol on

[dull zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-ben-chang-cant-see-small-gif-5154350

[molten robin]

but xrupee + admi is a valid way to get 100% reload speed, sure

[ornate solar]

mu bad

HAHAHA

yea but the damage is comparable with dolla

[dull zenith]

Admi will probably be slightly better for shorter fights, and Dolla will be better for longer fights

[molten robin]

100% reload on scarlet has prob been overrated because it's not a "true" elimination of reload

[dull zenith]

Dolla's value add is the number of full bursts you can get in

[ornate solar]

yea kinda true

[molten robin]

there's still an observable delay when you reload

[ornate solar]

but isnt that moot when xrupee have 1sec delay after burst

[molten robin]

1.5s even

[ornate solar]

Admi is bond 5 there and Dolla is Bond20

[keen timber]

It could be a bit underrated in circumstances since a lot of Scarlet's endscreen damage could be overkill damage from burst. I think 100% reload shines the most on bosses.

If you go from 20 shots to 40 shots every 4 seconds that's pretty good.

[molten robin]

what I really mean is, if you have, say, 80% reload speed, how much longer do you spend reloading compared to the brief animation that still plays at 100% reload?

[keen timber]

You just have to weigh her normals against her burst, and other opportunity cost.

[keen timber]

Ah you mean fully capping on Scarlet might be a waste

[molten robin]

right

[keen timber]

My bad then

[molten robin]

is there a point where the time spent reloading is equal to the length of the forced animation?

85%? 95%?

[keen timber]

I think if we can get close/100% cap reload with 1 unit + cube it's really good value

But once you start throwing Admi and such into the mix

It muddies the water

[keen timber]

I haven't looked into it for Scarlet, but 100% reload does benefit Alice

[molten robin]

rayel says reload cube caps at 32.5%, so that's technically 95.6% achievable reload speed with one unit

[keen timber]

Oh nice, 32.5% isn't bad

[molten robin]

that might be more than enough to cap the benefit to scarlet

obviously we wont get 10 cube that soon though

[keen timber]

Union raid forever delayed.

[molten robin]

testing scarlet at different high levels of reload speed to see where the benefit caps, if anywhere, would be interesting though

I dont think people have really explored that

[dull zenith]

The programming is too hard

[keen timber]

Right now max reload is just specifically strong in Sim room because of the buff

We don't have crazy good options to max it without opportunity cost outside of sim room right now

[keen timber]

It's worth looking into

Because there is definitely a delay between Scarlet reloads, iirc it was somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds

[molten robin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IssDW7FioGM

[keen timber]

I just don't know if lower reload speed still caps it

Yeah that's the video I saw awhile back

You can count the frames using the purple glow behind her

It disappears when she reloads

And reappears when she starts attacking again

Here's another example

I think framerate matters

Your video has Scarlet actually turn around

[molten robin]

prob yea

[keen timber]

Still funny to me that framerate trashes your dps so much in this game lol

[molten robin]

I noticed when using auto on alice too, between every shot I got a fraction of a reload bar to pop up/fill

like 5-8% maybe

prob my framerate

[keen timber]

https://streamable.com/bvwroq

My Alice at 100% again

No reload bar with 60 fps

Yeah I think you're right

She just stays at max bullets like you mentioned earlier

[molten robin]

well I mean without max reload speed this happens to me

so I tossed my youtube link into a video editor and I'm seeing ~0.15s reload animation

[keen timber]

I think that's about the same as the Scarlet video I linked

[molten robin]

so if my theory is correct, ~93.5% reload speed would achieve a similar effect, but the variable is whether 100% alters the animation compared to 99%, or framerate potentially shortening that window

[keen timber]

There is definitely still a very small delay that you can see with the purple swings going away

If we can confirm you don't need the full reload speed capped that'd be good though

[molten robin]

but it means xrupee + lvl 10 cube can potentially cap benefit to scarlet

while privaty or admi would fall 10% short or so

[keen timber]

Yup

[molten robin]

now I just need a scarlet-haver with reload units to try to assemble a test lol

[keen timber]

Would love to delve into it if I had a Scarlet haha.

Hopefully someone else here is willing

[solid relic]

what kind of test do you need?

[molten robin]

we need a scarlet with varying levels of high reload speed, around ~94% in particular

[solid relic]

I'll probably roll a Christmas Rupee in a bit, but I do have Scarlet, Privaty, Admi

[molten robin]

just a video of her firing

[solid relic]

hmm, hopefully LDPlayer9 plays nice with OBS

[molten robin]

the more different reload %s you could provide video for, the better

[solid relic]

hmm, reload speed is additive right? I'll need to level up some skills to get close to ~94%

[molten robin]

additive yes

if you have 3 buffers though with xrupee it shouldnt be hard

you have reload cube too

[solid relic]

brb rolling Christmas Rupee real quick

[molten robin]

our hero

[solid relic]

hmm I feel like the stutters on LDPlayer9 have gotten worse than they were earlier with the release of co-op...

d'oh, over 100%

if I level up skills and remove cube I can get 92.96

oh wait, I also have Christmas Rupee skills to level. What range of speeds do you want? Should I aim for 94% and go up to 100%?

I can do separate recordings between level ups of the skills

[molten robin]

Anything over 85%

Start around there and do every skill up would be great

[cloud elk]

Anyone knows if we'll get a general charge speed buffer?

[molten robin]

well, we technically have one in xrupee

presumably others will get a similar buff later

[cloud elk]

I was trying to look out on Laplace. Was trying out her burst damage with and without full stack: any recommendation on burst 1/2 so I can have more controled?

I meant charge speed - for RL/sniper.

[molten robin]

oh not burst, right

yuni and maxwell both boost charge speed

but not by a lot

[cloud elk]

Hmm, from my playing with Laplace, Im kinda favoring on having her quick flick than charging if you are havinf her on manual

[molten robin]

well, each shot gives the same burst generation, so I think it's well established that manualing a sniper or RL for quick shots means faster bursts

[cloud elk]

But testing it (gonna try again later) = without the true damage, around 1.375m - 750k

With the true damage = 1.834m - 890k

And better DPS in general, specially if you have faster reload

[molten robin]

@solid relic im heading to bed, but you can drop the videos here and ping me, and if no one else has by tomorrow night ill look at them

[cloud elk]

Around 625k vs 944k (gonna do kore later since liter might screw it up)

For now: you get better non burst dps and burst generation if you manual flick Laplace but to get MORE damage out of her burst, you need 5 staco

This kinda conflicts

The only solution I can theorycraft - have a very high charge speed reduction

So you reduce the time on charging as compared to manual quick flick

And manual flick also benefits IF you have faster reload (privaty, liter, xmas rupee)

I just hopege we'll get a charge speed buffer

[willow pecan]

Rupee used to help Laplace keep her dumb buff stacks

Now idk anymore, I rarely get to use them together

[dim wolf]

why not kekw, still works

[willow pecan]

They said adding stacks no longer initialize duration

[dim wolf]

the only part they fixed is refresh for non stackable buffs

[willow pecan]

But their patch note description always shit

So I guess it still works, I just shouldn't have taken it literally

[molten robin]

rupee has always added stacks for stacking buffs

that's what it says she does

[willow pecan]

I meant the patch note wording specifically

Adding stacks no longer initialize duration

Which means you can go from 3 to 4 stacks then lose the buff immediately cause remaining duration ticks from 1 to 0

But I don't think that's what is happening, it's just dogshit patch notes wording again.

[cloud elk]

Hmm, gonna test out timer

[sweet ocean]

So I can confirm that Lud's working properly

Very durable, can be competitive if invested

if only we have another good 20s healer to pair

[cloud elk]

By invested, 4/4/4?

[sweet ocean]

honestly she doesn't need that much work to get going, since you only need her to not die

heals help a ton though

[cloud elk]

Hmm, Im stuck at 13-15, problem is on turret, could try her there

[vapid geode]

[vapid geode]

Okay, so I think Noise isn't bugged.

Somehow, the devs changed the way max HP stat works on release. It doesn't just increase Max HP, but also heals for the same amount. So with Noise each Full Charge increasing her max HP, also heals her.

Just tested Folkwang too as she has max HP stat increase too and it heals her too.

[dim wolf]

well

makes sense, otherwise Max HP buff just giga useless tbh

now I see how Rapunzel heals so much

[vapid geode]

yeah, it makes sense now

but in test Max HP wasn't healing

another thing that changed on release

and wasn't retested by anyone

[dim wolf]

healer on Burst2 is not bad

[sweet ocean]

high-end phones are having problems too concerning performance

[cloud elk]

Ludimilla...

[meager elbow]

wait shouldn't Frima be at least A or S tier then, she will heal the whole team every full charge shot. Also heal burst

[willow pecan]

I could test her

[meager elbow]

please do

[willow pecan]

on it

gonna smash my face into a wall stage

and bring only frima, no other heal sources

see if the heal is nice

[sweet ocean]

doesn't just heal, makes everyone more tanky too

[willow pecan]

oof she's my last synchro slot

hmmm, I can't see any heals coming from her

4C might not be hitting me hard enough, plus I unfortunately saved a lifesteal buff earlier today

wall stages are oneshotting me

when she uses her burst people seem to visually lose hp, as in their max hp increases but current does not

will confirm with screenshots

[vapid geode]

potentially - I'm still working on the new tier list

[willow pecan]

I'm looking at her shoot

and nobody's getting healed

[vapid geode]

because you don't see it

you have to pause

and check stats

[willow pecan]

nothing there either

[vapid geode]

Hp, not stats, but you get what I mean

basically do SS before the skill is used

and after

and observe the current and max hp

example with Folk

1 ss before
2 ss with buff
3 ss after buff

[willow pecan]

this skill works on every full charged attack from Frima right?

[vapid geode]

it should - I'm still testing all the max HP characters

if they work the same

Folk and Noise work that way

[willow pecan]

I can see a constant 1 stack of Frima's s2 on my characters

but since the buff doesn't drop off they don't get healed after the first application I guess

gonna try covering to let it fall off

[vapid geode]

yeah, that's why it's fishy with Noise as she gets the HP even if the buff is up

[willow pecan]

1. after Frima burst
2. before Frima burst

her burst doesn't give hp, it just raises the max hp

if I'm doing/interpreting it right

her charged attack definitely doesn't heal any significant amounts, but I can't really get any good screenshots on that.

better screenshots

1. before Frima burst
2. after frima burst
3. statuses after burst

[vapid geode]

only the last screenshots shows the HP numbers

you won't see the healing from Max HP

on the results screen

you gotta compare the HP numbers on each char

before and after shot

I don't have Frima, so can't do myself

but do it like I did with Folk

so check the HP numbers

before and after Charge shot

[dim wolf]

I'm gonna check it as well

have Frima

[vapid geode]

[willow pecan]

123

[dim wolf]

1. No buff
2. Skill buff
3. Skill buff + Burst

[willow pecan]

same results I guess

[dim wolf]

Looks like Frima dont heal up from Max HP up

[vapid geode]

yeap

[willow pecan]

she doesn't do it

[vapid geode]

so so far Folk and Noise

heal

Frima doesn;t

[dim wolf]

useless shit

it either Frima bugged

or Folk & Noise

[vapid geode]

Rapunzel also should work with the heal

because she heals a ton

[dim wolf]

ye, let me test it

ye Rapunzel works the same

well, so far only Frima odd one

[vapid geode]

seems Frima bugged then

[willow pecan]

hidden S tier unit, frima bugged

[vapid geode]

if 4 other characters

[willow pecan]

[vapid geode]

heal with the max HP

[sweet ocean]

can't have pepper the god be challenged as the reliable b1 20s healer

[dull zenith]

These bugs that this group finds, are any of you reporting them to 10cent via the bug report form?

[dim wolf]

no?

[dull zenith]

Someone should probably do that, as adding it to a community sheet doesn't actually do anything

[dim wolf]

someone will do it eventually

[dull zenith]

-___-

You guys already have screenshots and steps to reproduce and everything

https://bit.ly/3UM9y1D

[copper nexus]

If the official reddit CM is to be trusted, they’re taking my bug list to the devs

[dull zenith]

Sounds

[vapid geode]

You can update the Noise bug too.

The max HP stat is a bit wonky and that's the issue. It not only increases max HP, but also current HP, so it translates into 'healing'.

And the max HP stat works the same on Folkwang and Rapunzel, but not on Frima

Frima Max HP just affects max hp

so either everyone is bugged and Frima works or Frima is bugged and Max HP should work like that

[dim wolf]

Well it usually works that way in other games. Otherwise this buff is completely useless

[molten robin]

Well no, increasing max hp allows you to be healed up to a higher health value, and increases the magnitude of effects based on max hp such as pepper healing

It is definitely not how it works in all other games, though certainly many

[dim wolf]

Well no, increasing max hp allows you to be healed up to a higher health value
Just a lie, after buff expires you will have initial max HP.
increases the magnitude of effects based on max hp such as pepper healing
True but giga niche effect

[molten robin]

how is that a lie? after you lose the max hp you lose the ability to have health above your current hp, I think that's obvious and not counter to what I just said

[dim wolf]

but need a healer who can keep you HP at that "temporary" higher value HP, basically making it useless

[molten robin]

I just pointed out what it does, it serves a purpose even if that purpose is judged as not good

[dim wolf]

so implementation of this effect for Noise/Rapunzel make more sense and make it more useful

[copper nexus]

Those are the only max hp increase buffs?

frima, folkwang, rapunzel?

[dim wolf]

noise

[vapid geode]

and noise

will have to double check

but seems those 4

[dim wolf]

also Delta

gonna check

[vapid geode]

oh, yeah check if she's like Frima

or others

if you can

[dim wolf]

ye

[copper nexus]

I’ll test too

ah solider FA also

[dim wolf]

nope

Delta - just Max HP

Soldier FA - heals with Max HP

[copper nexus]

soldier FA heals

[dim wolf]

[copper nexus]

[dim wolf]

ok, lets see if there's more units like that

[vapid geode]

So yeah, it's bugged one way or another

now we have to report it

[dim wolf]

ye, inconsistent

[vapid geode]

and they will decide the fate of Noise

either she will be best tank

[copper nexus]

LOL

[vapid geode]

or dead

[dim wolf]

[copper nexus]

rapunzel would be nerfed hard too actually

her heal on burst is nice

[sweet ocean]

Gonna be more pessimistic here and say that max HP% will still stay bad

[dim wolf]

ye, it will be giga nerf for Rapunzel

Pepper is on par with Rapunzel now

if it will be changed, Pepper will become best healer

yep, that was all. No more units with Max HP skill

[molten robin]

The heal on max hp is almost certainly what's bugged I'm afraid

It's so superior to other healing effects

[dim wolf]

?

I wouldnt say that unless it's a big value

just a nice gimmick

[copper nexus]

The values seem higher than most healing :/

[sweet ocean]

it's way waaaay better than traditional heals by far

[molten robin]

They do because max hp is so high

[sweet ocean]

since it also makes your team tankier

[molten robin]

Yea the first stack at least doesn't require you to even be damaged

[dim wolf]

is it? Emma heals quite a lot on burst

[dull zenith]

It happened guys https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1008354692188876861/1050816256590217216/image0.jpg

Infinite burst 1

[dim wolf]

dmg absolute garbage tho

[sweet ocean]

grave digger going supernova from being too horny

[molten robin]

While we're at it, has it been tested whether max hp buffs are additive or multi?

Very simple test

[meager elbow]

Did their buffs stack?

[stray solar]

What nerfs on rapunzel we talking about

What happened to max hp

[molten robin]

Her healing may not be intended to be healing lol

[stray solar]

Was it the target's max hp vs caster max hp?

Oh bruh the max hp buff itself is the bugged one

Like on noise?

[molten robin]

Noise and rapunzel and solider FA it heals, the others it doesn't

So one of the two sets is bugged

[wintry ravine]

I'd actually prefer it if those whom it doesn't heal on get it changed to heal. The burst 1 position could use the competition

[molten robin]

I don't particularly mind either way, I would just be surprised if they don't make it worse when made aware of it lol

Forget that though, they need to rethink defense in this game

As a stat on players it's so ass lol

[keen timber]

Do we have known examples of attack values on enemies?

I know we can test the difference between buffed/non-buffed hits but it would be nice to know the general scaling of enemies

[molten robin]

Not offhand that I know of, but there should be some lost sector enemies we can determine that for

[keen timber]

Def is just a stat that gets stronger the closer you are to enemy attack values, so it'd be nice to know if stacking defense could have some impact

[molten robin]

As long as the damage formula we know of holds true for enemies too, though that may be a false assumption

[keen timber]

Hard to say. I know Grave Digger in co-op basically does zero damage to you if you have T7 gear on, but if there is a huge gap between player defense and enemy attack it could be a dead stat.

If you have 3k def and the boss has 10k attack, a 20% def buff is only reducing damage taken by ~9% for example.

[molten robin]

Yea

Technically the more buffs you can stack the better it gets, like Noah gives...99%?

Though only during burst

[keen timber]

Yeah that's why I'm curious to see if it's possible to reach the point where your defense values start becoming super strong

[molten robin]

But yea, xrupee could slot into a defense stacking team in the future...but I'm not sure that would even be better than a shield team

[keen timber]

The closer your def is to enemy attack the higher damage mitigation further defense buffs will give, assuming the formula is static

[molten robin]

Yea

[keen timber]

Definitely on the to-do list of things to look into haha

[molten robin]

A def stacking team would be better than a shield team against a lot of small damage I suppose

[keen timber]

It's nice that shields in this game are at least nichely strong against big nukes

In most gachas I've played they don't properly give shields inherent value over raw heals or damage avoidance

I think Centi is balanced pretty nicely in that regard

[sweet ocean]

gee, 14's like a breeze compared to pre-nerf 13

chapter 13 is really the great filter wall

[molten robin]

I can't beat modernia rn with this full burst bug lol

[sweet ocean]

I can still target her parts fine

you can skip the desperation attack btw

[molten robin]

I know

[cloud elk]

the hard thing with full burst bug is you have to conserve ammo now lmao

[molten robin]

@copper nexus couple corrections - rupee's delay appears to be 1.5s by my own counting, not 1s, and according to datamine skill 10 rupee + max reload cube falls short of 100%, going up to ~95% or so, though the analysis you have present in the article for that may still be largely correct as I have a current theory that the benefit scarlet gets from reload speed actually caps in the low 90s%, which would mean xrupee still maximizes the benefit to scarlet as a solo unit in that case

currently awaiting testing someone is doing for me of scarlet reloading at various reload speeds between 85 and 100%

though alice definitely benefits from specifically 100%, so she cant solo provide the reload speed for alice

and if you havent please add the delay to the bug list to be checked

getting rid of that alone would skyrocket her viability imo

[copper nexus]

thanks, will add the corrections

[molten robin]

1.5s is so fucking bad

hand timing I was getting more like 1.6, but pretty sure the extra bit is input lag/error etc

[copper nexus]

oh, you’re right

damn almost 2 seconds between her and full burst mode

[molten robin]

I saw 1s floating around too, idk where it came from

I took it for granted too until I decided to stopwatch it lol

I see the start of a gcd-like cooldown animation that plays between bursts even between normal bursts, the same animation that plays after xrupee, but normally that animation appears to serve no purpose

I strongly suspect it was intended to be present between all bursts and that mechanic was dropped with the animation staying

and maybe an oversight for xrupee? idk I'm inhaling mad copium

but with these devs you never know

[copper nexus]

true

I’ll add to bug list as well

[sweet ocean]

save for canon wife

[copper nexus]

also it seems like the delay between her and burst 3/fbm is more like 2.5 seconds

[molten robin]

there's always some delay normally yea

[keen timber]

I already wasn't impressed with her kit reveal but I didn't think she'd be worse than I originally thought lol

Hopefully they at least fix the delay thing

[keen timber]

I knew it was weighted but damn

[still drift]

Let me get this into percentages.

[keen timber]

Seeing those weights hurts my soul haha.

Haven't seen a single 100 gem roll yet

[still drift]

Whole thing out of 10000.
So 1% for Crystals 100 LOL

[keen timber]

[sweet ocean]

makes sense

[still drift]

Hey I got lucky

[keen timber]

Stingey af

[sweet ocean]

I'm still getting fat gems per day from them

[still drift]

But my unionmates kinda got shafted so I wanted to check

Ye

[keen timber]

Ty for the weightings though

[molten robin]

1% but you get 25/day

[still drift]

Just get lucky

[keen timber]

Still a higher chance than pulling pilgrams

[molten robin]

so you get an average of 2 gems per chest, so an average of 50/day

for 20 days, so 1k average over the course of the event?

roughly

[copper nexus]

not too bad actually

we’re getting other rewards too

[sweet ocean]

as I said, f2ps are eating good

[atomic gyro]

Alright, with a little setback with Alex disappearing like how Scarlet disappeared on him, we're going to get back on track for releasing the #1046549179918458890

[dull zenith]

Alex went out to buy some cigarettes

[atomic gyro]

Going to make the new unit megathreads for Winter Rupee and Reve and have someone look through it

[dull zenith]

What will be the difference between research-lab and dungeon?

[atomic gyro]

A more organised dungeon

[sweet ocean]

and with more peeps

since you'll most likely do a @ everyone when it goes public yes? It will give it a big initial push

or is that a no

[dull zenith]

I think the appeal of the dungeon right now is that it is not gen-chat

Only the people who care are here

It's worth considering optimizing for signal-to-noise

[sweet ocean]

yeah, I've seen some examples of general theorycrafting chats

if you open your doors up hot takes will spill out like dozens

[dull zenith]

If dungeon becomes too broad, it'll just be another question-centre and meme chat, with a tonof folks that have theories but no data or evidence

and are unwilling to test

[sweet ocean]

this
is exactly what happened to my examples

take note @atomic gyro

but we still need an initial push, I leave the call to you

[atomic gyro]

Oh don't worry

I will be bonking the shit out of people

in there

I will have zero chill

For those who are illiterate in the lab

[sweet ocean]

Hot takes and hard statements without actual numbers and evidences to back them up
are fair games, basically

[atomic gyro]

I will be purging new threads that don't conform to the rules and consequently remove write access if they fuck shit up basically

[still drift]

As long as a person isnt spouting off nonsense or false info with bad intent, it is how it is.

[dull zenith]

Yeah, I sometimes meme here cuz these folks are too serious

Don't ban me

[still drift]

This is why I like to look into data, not some subjective opinions.

[atomic gyro]

I mean

I won't close the original research dungeon

[sweet ocean]

nah, as long as you don't act like an actual clown

[atomic gyro]

We also will have the break room too

as a "general chat" for the research department

[copper nexus]

so everyone has access to research dep?

do I just dump my rupee analysis link in the rupee thread or no