Research Dungeon

[half grove]

so scarlet burst doesn't get boosted by Full burst, Range, Weakspot
( once you press the burst. it basically snapshots all the buffs )

yeah i did

the non-buffed area is what i calc and tested

[sweet ocean]

check again?
That's pretty huge if this gets out

like, can legit knock her off a tier

[half grove]

i'm not sure if others work the same

[wintry ravine]

hmm I feel like you are over complicating your math

[half grove]

[sweet ocean]

we did work earlier and lap's burst is affected by full burst bonus

[wintry ravine]

try without all the other characters

just use scarlet and 2 R's with no buffs

[half grove]

yeah i did that test

the none buffed

one

[wintry ravine]

I did I quick test earlier and seemed like her burst was effected by burst 1.5x to me, guess I could test again

oh god

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-let-me-out-gif-18252480

[half grove]

lemme send a clip

this is what i did

and from my calcs, range full burst and weakspot don't count

[wintry ravine]

I'm gonna test without attacking with her and no buffs at all, simplifies it all

[half grove]

oh yeah if you crit, just add crit modifier to it

[sweet ocean]

damn, so like
if instant-cast b3s aren't affected by FBB

that's gonna break the current meta a bit

[half grove]

i feel like i remember checking on harran and she also doesn't get FB bonus, weakspot and range as well on Burst

i was doing calc on the pierce

and also the Charge bug

[sweet ocean]

I'm pretty sure only a few people know about instant-cast b3s not being affected by FBB atm

[half grove]

well i know it doesn't get affected by some unit

[atomic gyro]

Would that affect the other bursts too? Like Burst I and Burst IIs not being applied their respective buffs?

[sweet ocean]

another batch of findings to the note

[half grove]

that needs to be tested

[atomic gyro]

So internal logic would be Burst Logic -> Buff

Instead of Buff -> Burst Logic

[half grove]

iirc once you press the burst, it basically snapshots the buffs, is what i coming up rn

[wintry ravine]

huh you are correct, her burst doesn't get the 1.5x burst time bonus

[half grove]

hmm, then again it might only be a scarlet thing, so prolly need to test on other units as well

[wintry ravine]

my test btw

12893 atk * 5.3071 = 68424

68424 x 1.5

expected
102636

reality

[half grove]

yeah only crit modifier gets added

[wintry ravine]

yup

that is pretty big honestly

[sweet ocean]

gigantic

[half grove]

basically also proves that burst skills can also snapshot?

[sweet ocean]

this flies over casual's head but it's about the biggest discovery since the game's release imo

[willow pecan]

It's totally over my head rn

you're basically saying we can yulha buff scarlet/laplace burst for 90% more damage?

[wintry ravine]

laplace stocks rising

[half grove]

if you time it

not for laplace

i think

laplace is based on duration

[willow pecan]

Interesting

[half grove]

actually no. i did test it before

when i was doing pre-analysis

[willow pecan]

gonna wait for the geniuses here to make a TLDR/PSA so I can benefit

[sweet ocean]

@willow pecando you know about full burst's damage bonus?

[wintry ravine]

damage during burst time is multipled by 1.5x, except bursts that do instant damage don't recieve that 50% extra buff

[half grove]

it is based on duration of buffs

[willow pecan]

I think I get the concept

[half grove]

50%

[willow pecan]

just not the implications

yes to @sweet ocean and @wintry ravine but thank you still.

[sweet ocean]

This affects Harran and Scarlet@willow pecan since their bursts are both instant

[half grove]

then there is also this one as well

[willow pecan]

non-instant burst = privaty/yulha?

since it takes time for the missiles to drop

[wintry ravine]

yeah privaty should gain the 1.5x as it's damage over time I think

[half grove]

Risk sharing is Dolla's S2 where you get atk buff

[willow pecan]

hard to know how to use this information tbh

[wintry ravine]

would have to test but the visuals and how it feels to me suggest it is damamge over time

[sweet ocean]

I actually don't think so, will need to test priv. Luckily she's free

[willow pecan]

privaty burst is still <<<<<<<<< scarlet burst damage atm

so IF she is benefiting from 50% and still inferior to scarlet

well, that's fucking sad

[wintry ravine]

probably not nearly as much as we previously thought

as when bursts start leveling privaty will gain a lot

[willow pecan]

in practice I can see her fail to oneshot things my friends' scarlets are having no issue overkilling

[trail falcon]

privaty sends two barrages on burst right ?

[willow pecan]

oh, yeah. burst fix might come in play too

3 barrages I think

[sweet ocean]

the bulk of priv's damage isn't in her burst lmao
it's in her s2. And that is affected by FBB, core hit and crit

[willow pecan]

all I'm saying is that even with this discovery factored in, current live testing says scarlet/harran >>>> all

which is why I'm curious about why this is such a big deal, application wise

[half grove]

Dolla's S2 says "after burst from her she will give atk boost" but apparently she doesn't, its after i used my Scarlet burst

well imma go check if i need to delay the Scarlet burst for scarlet to get the Dolla S2 buff

[wintry ravine]

scaling on bursts will change alot and tbh I already believe live laplace is better than scarlet

[willow pecan]

in her niches, maybe

scaling on burst is maybe the only thing that can change things around, given this information

[wintry ravine]

she doesn't really have niches, that's much overblown

she does good aoe and good single target

[sweet ocean]

the only weak thing is that she doesn't have an instant screenwipe imo

[half grove]

i feel like i'm getting scammed

Dolla's S2 is apparently Going in FB mode

this one

welp

we got another translation error

again

[willow pecan]

activation delay maybe?

[half grove]

its full burst

[wintry ravine]

what diff does it matter when dolla skills activates

[half grove]

not burst skill

[willow pecan]

as in they parse burst 3 > full burst before activating that skill

[half grove]

the diff is well, you get atk boost before burst 3

[willow pecan]

maybe they can't parallel parse both 🤣

[half grove]

but instead you get atk boost after burst 3

[wintry ravine]

oh I see so scarlet doesn't get dolla boost

[half grove]

which makes you not getting atk buff, crit buffs ( in later burst cycles )

yeah

[wintry ravine]

[half grove]

translation error

it isn't burst skill

but full burst

[wintry ravine]

laplace stocks rising

wait what about liter buff?

[half grove]

liter works fine

[wintry ravine]

hmm weird

[half grove]

again, also this same video

[sweet ocean]

We are already doing so much work and the general research area isn't even public yet

[half grove]

its after scarlet deals dmg then Dolla S2 proc'd

[sweet ocean]

I knew inviting you here was the right choice

[half grove]

i'm busy tho

[wintry ravine]

I guess dolla skill is linked to full burst and full burst doesn't start until you do the 3rd burst, makes sense tbh

[half grove]

like i have different theory crafting session to attend in different gacha

[wintry ravine]

liters skill 1 buffs liekly work the same way

only her burst will work for scarlet

[sweet ocean]

So another one to the board
Instant-cast bursts aren't affected by FBB or "Cast when entering Full Burst" buffs.

[molten robin]

during all that laplace testing, was it tested if the true damage scales down with power penalty?

I saw the conclusion that FB bonus affects it, so the % math aligns

[sweet ocean]

@molten robinhave you seen this thread? https://discord.com/channels/968096627002851379/1046549179918458890/threads/1046687420537651230

[wintry ravine]

it would as power penalty affects atk and the true damage is based off attack

[molten robin]

I'm not a maid, so no

[sweet ocean]

oh fuck sorry lmao

[molten robin]

the whole point of testing it originally was to verify this lol

[wintry ravine]

it was tested though actually

and it follows my logic

[sweet ocean]

@molten robin here, tests and results #1042458757843656774 message

[molten robin]

maybe I missed that, it was 500+ messages I skimmed

[molten robin]

that's from when he forgot to test true damage

allen tested the non-true damage there

[sweet ocean]

@molten robin from Rayel

Conclusion :
Power Level Penalty applies to stats, and not final damage calculation. But yes, it is apparent that it affects the damage output, regardless of the damage being classified as "True Damage".

[molten robin]

since he forgot he had to stack the buff

[wintry ravine]

allen did a test while being underpowered and I did some math just after let me find it...

[half grove]

Cp penalty i think is at the end of the modifiers tho i am not 100% certain

or maybe i'm tripping

[wintry ravine]

#1042458757843656774 message

[molten robin]

got it, thanks

[wintry ravine]

but her burst will still perform well when under powered if the damage formula is atk - def (idk if it is)

[molten robin]

it is

def subtracts from atk in the formula

[half grove]

yeah it is

[wintry ravine]

her burst suffers a bit less than others then

[half grove]

i use that formula for my calcs

[molten robin]

so laplace very good against high defense

[wintry ravine]

yes

though I don't think we have enemy stats 😛

[molten robin]

which works against attack reduction since you're making your attack:defense ratio worse, yea

[half grove]

i only know shooting range has 100 base def

[wintry ravine]

by tests earlier suggest it doesn't have def value

laplace true damage matched the core damage / 2

[molten robin]

True danage ignores defense lol

[wintry ravine]

myabe I am getting mixed up it's been a long day, there was a point when I thought the union had 100 def

[molten robin]

Can't test enemy defense if you're ignoring it

[wintry ravine]

yes but laplace damage displays two instances

one regular and one true

[molten robin]

Yea

[trail falcon]

do you guys level your nikkes evenly because I've had sources that recommend leveling your main dps 20 levels higher would be better allocation of resources

[wintry ravine]

evenly is better

[sweet ocean]

@trail falconwhat are your sources?

[wintry ravine]

I guess actually resource cost doesn't go up until over 20 levels

[trail falcon]

the TW whale recommends leveling your main dps 20 levels higher and there are some other whales that recommend it as well

[wintry ravine]

hmm yeah might make sense

[molten robin]

I think specifically they suggest going to the next core dust breakpoint

[atomic gyro]

That only works if you have max lb SSRs no?

[wintry ravine]

yeah it only makes sense if resource cost isn't increased

[molten robin]

Because the dust breakpoints give more power per battle data than normal

[trail falcon]

yea it only works if you have limit broken SSRs

[atomic gyro]

Full whale tactic only, else we're reliant on synchro

[molten robin]

Well not quite, you only need one limit broken to do this

You don't need 5

[half grove]

do you guys have burst 1 laplace multipliers?

[sweet ocean]

@half grove 8.58/7.03 iirc

[half grove]

ok thanks

[wintry ravine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NikkeMobile/comments/z6zy81/laplace_burst_math/

[whole fox]

I would

[half grove]

bruh

don't tell me her burst doesn't get range mod

[whole fox]

But hey at least it got u guys testing right? 😄

[half grove]

don't do this

ffs time to make another whole file on specific ranges with laplace

[atomic gyro]

NyX, get into the factory and start working

Need more sets of eyes on it

[wintry ravine]

rockets users don't get range mod

[sweet ocean]

so the guy who did https://rentry.org/nikg_tryhard came up with another chart

[half grove]

oh yeah

[sweet ocean]

He's planning to add damage improving abilities too next revision.

[half grove]

i thought her burst is a MG kek

[whole fox]

Im in class yo

[pearl parcel]

that guys is insane

[atomic gyro]

yo always in class yo

time to touch some research floors

[whole fox]

I did

[atomic gyro]

[whole fox]

I started the does laplace true damage ignore stat pen

[wintry ravine]

we weren't specifying any rnage during our testing pretty sure this descrepincy would have shown up between the 3 of us if it were the case

[sweet ocean]

According to this guy, Eunhwa has the best DPS in B2 if discounting damage improving skills

[half grove]

yeah, makes sense for RL

[sweet ocean]

Interesting

[wintry ravine]

I'll note that all this testing just confirms what I already knew, Laplace is SS tier 😎

https://tenor.com/view/toocool-cool-too-sunglasses-breakfastclub-gif-5951183

[atomic gyro]

Laplace has been out DPSing my Alice, Drake, and Rupee ever since I switched

[wintry ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/segundo-sol-novela-remy-vladimir-brichta-chocado-gif-12304506

[whole fox]

well i would just say i would take repsonsiblity of that

but hey at least it did also get more other results too right

[wintry ravine]

yeah we discovered a lot of interesting stuff

[vapid geode]

that's some impressive shit

both in the img and the link

[whole fox]

dont just slam me hey maybe thats something worth looking but it didnt work but the result did give something

[wintry ravine]

xD

[sweet ocean]

I almost want to invite him to this place, but folks over there do not want anything to do with Discord.

Eh he's doing fine by himself anyway

[atomic gyro]

Maybe invite him after we publicize our research dungeon center

[whole fox]

sometimes dont people dont want extra distraction

[atomic gyro]

just invite, we won't force

but once he gets here we should roll in the red carpet and lock the doors

[whole fox]

well he will be at the other research duneon Factory

[half grove]

ok yeah. its confirmed ( double checking to be sure )
Laplace's True dmg is actually True dmg, also gets affected by Full burst ( can't get Crit Mod nor has a Weakspot Mod )

[sweet ocean]

It can't crit ?

It can core hit at least?

[half grove]

yeah

[whole fox]

i belive it can hit core

[half grove]

True dmg can't crit

also doesn't get weakspot mod

but the 8.58% can get the Weakspot + Crit + Full burst

[whole fox]

hey at least my topic from "does true damage ignore stat pen" slowly trinkle into another topic like "Can Laplace crit with burst?"

dats a W

[half grove]

well as we all know, true dmg can't get away from the mighty cp penalty

[whole fox]

yea since it's tested we can say it does get affected by stat pen

[half grove]

as expected

[sweet ocean]

So
Laplace's burst's first part can benefit from Core Hit + Crit + Full Burst.
True dmg part can't crit or Core Hit, but benefits from Full Burst.

that correct?

Right, another one to the board.

[wintry ravine]

hmm actually

I think we did see some variation in the true damage numbers didn't we

like some being higher

I think

It's been a long day

[half grove]

from the testing i did, i don't see any variation of numbers

[whole fox]

take a rest dont hurt or break your back over a stupid random theory/comment like me thinking hey lets give this theory a shot

[half grove]

unless you buffed laplace's attack

[unborn glacier]

he should join us

[half grove]

wait a sec

oh

[wintry ravine]

#1042458757843656774 message

[half grove]

true dmg does get crit

[wintry ravine]

see the 1759's

[unborn glacier]

what do you guys mean by variation of numbers in the 1st place?

[wintry ravine]

did we ever figure out those 1759's @unborn glacier

[unborn glacier]

and yes that screenshot seems to indicate true damage can possibly crit

[half grove]

yeah it can crit

[unborn glacier]

we ignored it, but it looks like crit

[wintry ravine]

[half grove]

[unborn glacier]

im not surprised it can crit

[wintry ravine]

hm I guess it could have went either way

[unborn glacier]

but then, no one said it couldnt.. unless someone did

[half grove]

[wintry ravine]

laplace ult with some good crit buffers is gonna be nutso

[whole fox]

let not point fingers over a comment arite

[wintry ravine]

when they fix crit

[unborn glacier]

when they fix burst skills

the damage will go multi nutso

[wintry ravine]

I guess in fairness liter burst already very good for laplace

[unborn glacier]

just verifying something

[wintry ravine]

if they release a good crit buffer in burst 2 spot it would be good

[unborn glacier]

are attack buff additive or multiplicative to each other?

[wintry ravine]

additive surely

[unborn glacier]

is that an assumption?

you know the devs have poor reputation with math sometimes

[wintry ravine]

_>

[sweet ocean]

might be additive from the same unit but multi from others
need testings either way

[unborn glacier]

yes

its not too hard to test, but im tired and its 1:30 am here

[whole fox]

u should go and take a rest

you can always do it tommrow

always i need to continute on visual effects node editing so remeber to log dem in #1046549179918458890 arite

[unborn glacier]

for unity?

[whole fox]

not yet but in Maya then soon Houdini

then i need to learn how to port Houdini effects to unreal or Unity

[unborn glacier]

fire, nice

[whole fox]

im still learning the grips of visual effectstoo

cuz if i cant a grip of this then im gonna struggle hard in houdini

[unborn glacier]

work related? or for fun?

[whole fox]

work related

cuz im studying a vfx for film and games

cuz my lecturer who is teaching us in visual effects r aprt of the team who did most of the visual effects of marvel like avengers and siderman and dr strange stuff and the latest avatar stuff too

[unborn glacier]

ahh for school

[molten robin]

I just realized this, but the power penalty must not be reducing base attack

It can only be reduce attack after defense is subtracted, or is a modifier

Otherwise different people with different setups would be seeing a different % reduction from the power penalty, because defense would have an increasing impact the lower your attack is

[pearl parcel]

I will probably move research-factory later to a new made category

actually lemme do that rn...

[molten robin]

To take a step back though and not rush to a conclusion too hastily, have we actually compared the power penalty reduction among varying attack levels, or was it just one person primarily responsible for testing/compiling the data?

I'd assume that test has been done by various people.and the results all match, but I haven't checked that

[pearl parcel]

I hope you guys can see the channel and new category

maid for you rank now create additional channels for the new category btw

[whole fox]

Ah yes

[molten robin]

@still drift I assume would be the most familiar with how power penalty was tested

[atomic gyro]

am not maid so I can't

[pearl parcel]

You are

[atomic gyro]

wait since when

Then why can't I make this shit

[pearl parcel]

Try now

[atomic gyro]

Same error

Time to make me purple

[pearl parcel]

now?

[atomic gyro]

Nice

It works

Now to remember to lock it to maid only writes when we go public

[pearl parcel]

it's like that

it's private

[atomic gyro]

Yeah I saw when syncing the permissions to the category

[still drift]

I'm only familiar with the numbers as I've retrieved them from ingame penalty files. Testing was not necessary for my data/number collection, Allen is more about ingame testing and mechanics.

[molten robin]

@unborn glacier maybe you can share insight into this then: we have the %modifiers for cp from rayel, but has it been established whether the final observed damage reduction varies by target or person to person?

[atomic gyro]

We have two tags left for #1046549179918458890, final ideas?

I'm going to be cleaning up and going over one more time and closing all the issues for prep before the publicity

[sweet ocean]

kek might want to take this joke tag off to make room for one more

[atomic gyro]

It'll stay there unless there's a need for more tags

(It will go after we set it to public)

[pearl parcel]

[atomic gyro]

Oh shit

[pearl parcel]

I am everywhere my friend

you can't escape me

[atomic gyro]

sorry alex

[pearl parcel]

I am in your walls rn

[atomic gyro]

i did you wrong

I fixed it for you

[pearl parcel]

I will look into the ticket bot when I have time

[sweet ocean]

My only concern is we can't have 2 pins up at the same time
So we can't have the current megathread for new units up with the how-to thread

[atomic gyro]

I will edit the pinned message whenever a new unit come sout

and then pin the new thread accordingly

[pearl parcel]

Probably that

[atomic gyro]

I guess

[sweet ocean]

gravy, then that's taken care of

[atomic gyro]

Considering the pinned post and the guideline are basically duplicates anyway

Just done for visibility's sake

[pearl parcel]

Yeah cuz people don't read rules anyway

even if they be would be sticked right in front of their face

[atomic gyro]

Since I have both guideline and pinned thread, I will indiscriminately ban people from the research lab

[pearl parcel]

or you can leave the guildelines only

and do that thing with announcing new units idk

[atomic gyro]

I believe it shows when you make the thread

Can you check Alex?

Try making a new thread

[pearl parcel]

but sucks f-ing Discord made only a book up there

[atomic gyro]

See if the guideline shows up

[pearl parcel]

only the book

idk wtf they did

[atomic gyro]

As in, type something in then press create

it'll expand

[pearl parcel]

it used to show in the right side when the forum feature launched

aaa you mean this

[atomic gyro]

OH IT SHOWS UP FOR YOU?

It doesn't for me, so I wasn't sure

Since I wrote up the guidelines

So do we want to take down the guideline thread in favour for new unit thread?

[sweet ocean]

Yes, when the next unit launches
Perfect time to go public

[atomic gyro]

we go public in two weeks?

[tall fern]

new character already announced ?

[sweet ocean]

Anyway, the only thing left is to finalize the templates imo

[atomic gyro]

ye, so we don't really have to wait that long

I can take down the thread guideline and create a new unit thread

@pearl parcel do we want a special role for those who contributed research for the good of ?

[sweet ocean]

I vote for.

We need to know who's the big dick big brein around 'ere

[pearl parcel]

I will probably make Maid for you the big brain role

[atomic gyro]

I can't megathread someone help with wording for megathread laplace pl0x #1046965893801988106

Also, if nobody's stopping me, I'm going to remove the pinned guidelines and rely entirely on the discord guideline to pin the new unit megathread capiche?

[pearl parcel]

next Nikke arrives

Also mark this with an *

and bold it

[atomic gyro]

[sweet ocean]

Oh

We're still missing a general chat area for researchers

[atomic gyro]

already is though

[sweet ocean]

This is important btw

[pearl parcel]

we can make one

[atomic gyro]

already done

[pearl parcel]

you guys have access to edit the category

[atomic gyro]

[pearl parcel]

how much you want

[sweet ocean]

because I'm not the shotcaller here

[atomic gyro]

why does it not let me sync permissions to category

bubba

we're all equal here

[pearl parcel]

done

[atomic gyro]

nice

[pearl parcel]

space before ** *

try that

if not

you need to use Italic on every single raw above and just bold to that phrase after

[atomic gyro]

oh fuck

wtf * ** turns it into a bullet point?

[unborn glacier]

I'm not 100% sure I understand your question?

[pearl parcel]

It's messing with the Bold

[atomic gyro]

yeah

gimme a sec

[sweet ocean]

I'm in favor of keeping the Megathread minimal in casual discussion and focused on findings only, to make things easier to sort out later

like what I suggested

[atomic gyro]

Ah mb

Will change it

Now just gotta wait for the template

Gonna go fix that weird bold italics thing now

Fuck yeah

Markup is dumb

[sweet ocean]

Maybe we should have a picture of the nikke's kit instead of linking to Prydwen. It's more "accurate"
Just a suggestion

They do post this kinda thing every time before a new unit's released aye?

[atomic gyro]

Yes

Gimme that img

yoink

Fuck can you not add the image back in?

There we go

[copper nexus]

hello friends

[tall fern]

[copper nexus]

Not sure if you guys have seen it but I have a bug list that might be helpful to keep track of fixed, and non fixed/confirmed bugs

[sweet ocean]

invited him in

[tall fern]

[atomic gyro]

[sweet ocean]

Drop the payload m8

[pearl parcel]

It's seems we have another fellow researcher

[copper nexus]

https://nikke.gg/bug-guide/

I keep it updated

[atomic gyro]

Time to pin that shit in #questioning-centre

[copper nexus]

I can be the bug catcher guy

[atomic gyro]

Now I can just point people to the damned pins again

[tall fern]

oh wait you're the dude who made the speadsheet tierlist ?

[copper nexus]

Yes I am

[tall fern]

[sweet ocean]

oh my fucking god
score

[copper nexus]

Trying to move from spreadsheet to nikke.gg now because sheets is struggling with the traffic

[sweet ocean]

give this guy and chills Maid for You imo

[copper nexus]

What is that lol

[sweet ocean]

ze big brein role

[whole fox]

Thats the researcher role

[atomic gyro]

OH FUCK

I HAVE THE POWER

TO MAKE YOU A MAID

[copper nexus]

I'm a maid?

[atomic gyro]

A DRAGON MAID

https://tenor.com/view/tohru-dragonmaid-surprised-gif-11932540

[whole fox]

Welcome

[copper nexus]

Lmao

Thank you

[sweet ocean]

remember to give regular joes permission to post in #1046549179918458890 too once we go public

[atomic gyro]

ofc

[sweet ocean]

and #break-room is free game too of course

[atomic gyro]

what if

i made a maid only break room

[copper nexus]

Very cool stuff you guys have here

[sweet ocean]

they actually have those in the places that I got my inspirations from

[atomic gyro]

We have #janitor-closet for the maids now

wait

@pearl parcel why does image prisoners have access to view the research dep?

[pearl parcel]

Dw they can't see shit

[atomic gyro]

wat

[pearl parcel]

Just don't break stuffs

[atomic gyro]

interesting

do we have to coordinate with you

[pearl parcel]

Everyone permissions > Prisoner

[atomic gyro]

to go public

or do i have the power

[pearl parcel]

Yes

[atomic gyro]

to have the research department

[pearl parcel]

without me you won't go public

[atomic gyro]

randomly flash people

[sweet ocean]

ok AFTER the templates are finalized I have another proposal

A read-me channel to teach people wtf the section is actually about

kinda like this

rules can be pasted there

[copper nexus]

Is this gonna be the keqingmains of nikke lol

[sweet ocean]

and what the roles actually represent

and what the channels are about

[sweet ocean]

If we can turn this into the KQM of Nikke that'd be great

anyway what I posted was just an example, we don't need to go balls-to-the-walls like these guys did

[tall fern]

ngl i think alex and the gang have given up on that idea or have just not had that idea cross their mind because

uhhh

the average nikke chatter aint too bright

people can't even read take off topic chats into #general-chat or take nsfw chats into #cummander-zone

[pearl parcel]

that problem is that some people are not into this

[tall fern]

and that

[pearl parcel]

ofc I can make embeds for this

like explaining every channel

ofc as long as you guys do the text before

[copper nexus]

Yeah better to keep things short and simple for smol brains

[pearl parcel]

I already had to deal with a lot of "things" in the past few months and weeks

[whole fox]

[copper nexus]

Btw should I add an invite link to this discord to my communities list?

[sweet ocean]

well, we can always need more people

[pearl parcel]

We don't mind as long as it can bring more brain power here

[copper nexus]

what invite link should I use

[sweet ocean]

https://discord.com/invite/nikke
A server can have multiple invite links?

[copper nexus]

yeah different links have different limits

some expire after time or too many uses

how’s this

[atomic gyro]

[pearl parcel]

Good

[molten robin]

Basically, what I want to determine is the form the CP is taking - if it reduces base attack, we will observe variance in the amount of damage reduction seen at the same power deficit across different levels of attack or enemy defense

[pearl parcel]

anyway going to sleep bb guys

take care

[copper nexus]

goodnight

[molten robin]

if instead we observe no variance, we know it is acting on attack AFTER defense is subtracted

[atomic gyro]

wait

Alex

why are you sleeping so late

isn't it like, almost morning there

[pearl parcel]

[plush gazelle]

alex

who is this

is it really sugar?

[atomic gyro]

it's kubaba

[plush gazelle]

something something football

idk

[atomic gyro]

dc kubaba

[unborn glacier]

i need some guidance on how "reducing base attack would lead to variance in amount of damage reduction"
my brain cant wrap around this 😂

[pearl parcel]

I think it's from Destiny Child

[plush gazelle]

my friend has been staying up to watch football

until like 5am our time

[plush gazelle]

gotchu

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/destiny-child-for-kakao/images/2/20/High_Speed_Kubaba.png/revision/latest?cb=20200712031436

why is there an old kubaba

[atomic gyro]

Because ass

[unborn glacier]

ahh okay so the proper way to clarify this is if stat reduction is constant or something done during damage impact, and if done during damage impact, how its applied in formula

[copper nexus]

didn’t realize this was a horny chat

[atomic gyro]

It's research

[molten robin]

since defense is subtracted directly from attack, a consequence is that reducing attack before it is subtracted is more punitive
math example: assume 1k attack and 500 defense
reduce attack by 20%, pre-subtraction you get: 1k * 0.8 - 500 = 300 final attack vs
post-subtraction 1k - 500 = 500 *0.8 = 400 final attack

[unborn glacier]

yes i got it, when you mentioned attack - def 😂

[molten robin]

lol

it's mostly important for laplace, since if cp reduces base attack, ignoring defense is better than if it reduces post-defense

she would get better the higher your cp is

as opposed to post-defense reduction where it will always have the same % effect

it shouldnt be too hard to test, you just need to choose a big target in a lost sector floor and try to have two players with the same combat power

and the same unit but with different attack stat

[copper nexus]

wouldn’t it be easier to test same attack stat with different cp

it only takes 1 person/account that way

[molten robin]

or rather the same person can test it, and change their unit's attack while keeping cp the same via adjusting gear on others

[copper nexus]

Btw don't mean to change the topic but is anyone still working on burst bar generation?

[molten robin]

technically you dont even need to change variables

if you do a single test and your observation is different from rayel's table, that alone would do it I'd think

[sweet ocean]

burst bar gen for each weapon archetypes?

[copper nexus]

Per character

[sweet ocean]

@copper nexus https://rentry.org/nikg_tryhard

same guy made this

and no he isn't in this server

[copper nexus]

I did some scuffed testing with someone from maincord before and it seemed pilgrims have different burst gen rates which kinda make sense

Our working theory was that burst gen is dependant on reload type

Not damage

[still drift]

@copper nexus Night mode for Nikke.gg when

[sweet ocean]

a reddit post supports this
somehow multiclip reload users are generating more burst gauge

[copper nexus]

Yeah

[sweet ocean]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NikkeMobile/comments/z4yjzi/sg_and_rl_nikkes_with_multiclip_reload_generate/

[copper nexus]

Then the guy up and left the server LOL

Dude disappeared on me rip

[whole fox]

night mode for your excel when?

[still drift]

Use an extension, google sheets in charge

[copper nexus]

Oh we can do that

[whole fox]

im always blinded by your exel everytime update the campaign missions

[copper nexus]

I wanted to check reload time vs burst gen for other weapon types as well though

[whole fox]

yea chapter 4 hard is updated

100k power recommened at chapter 4 hard

[sweet ocean]

do we even have alternate reload styles for other weps
aside from sg/rl

[copper nexus]

No alternate styles

But there are different reload times

[whole fox]

i think in terms of reload animation

crow has a unique 1

where she just throw her gun away

[copper nexus]

Not sure about animations

My theory is that base reload time effects burst gen

[unborn glacier]

@molten robin got busy with work

let me do my test now

while

this means stats are reduced upon entering the stage

and not reduced upon damage impact/damage formula

[atomic gyro]

Shouldn't the second one have a larger amount of health? 🤔

[unborn glacier]

wrong ss

wait lol

i cant edit and post image, but here is the correct one

[molten robin]

aka base attack is reduced

is that a safe assumption though?

[unborn glacier]

base attack is reduced at start of battle

[molten robin]

I'm not sure it is

[unborn glacier]

the datamine says stats are reduced (the code)

[molten robin]

well yea, but I'm not sure it has to be implemented on base attack

[unborn glacier]

would make no sense programatically to do it on damage calculation

your assuming(logic) the penalty is damage penalty (where doing the attack reduction seperately,might make sense)

and not stat penalty

[molten robin]

did my own test and I agree, I observed a 27.69% reduction in damage for a stage where rayel's table predicts a 25.4% penalty for the deficit I had

so some takeaways: 1. attack buffing is stronger the higher your penalty is, one of the reasons we see scarlet pushing so well deep into penalty
2. you can't say a 25% penalty means a 25% damage reduction, they aren't directly correlated
3. laplace gets betters the higher your penalty relative to non-true damage dealers, as shredding defense is more impactful the lower your attack:defense ratio

does that all seem reasonable?

[unborn glacier]

1. though correct, im not sure how its different from the current belief that attack is more valuable in the damage formula as it is XD

2. yes, they arent cause its a 25% stat penalty.. people just got used to calling it damage penalty (me included) until i saw rayel's file

3. correct, for true damage component, which theoretically account for 25-40ish%(guestimate) of her damage output in a battle..

the larger chunk of her damage though still, behaves like normal nikke's

[molten robin]

right

[molten robin]

for 1. the point is attack is so valuable relative to crit because it's a pure scalar, aka its own multi category, but understanding that it's base attack being reduced helps us understand how pronounced it can become - as an extreme example, if you have 1k attack vs 500 defense as in my prior example, buffing attack by 50% is a 100% damage increase

I've never seen anyone discuss the ramifications of attack:defense ratio on just how good attack buffs are

it is still true without cp ofc, but it's much more pronounced under cp

[unborn glacier]

i agree its less emphasized, a factor is cause defense numbers is something we dont have.. and cant play with 😭

[molten robin]

as cp is worsening the attack:defense ratio

[unborn glacier]

@molten robin by ay chance have you tested/check if attack buffs are additive or multiplicative already?

to each other

[molten robin]

no, but that's a simple test

[unborn glacier]

could you test for me.. pretty please 😅

[molten robin]

yea

do we KNOW shooting range defense is 100, or is that just speculated?

[sweet ocean]

That can be tested easily too I think. Just need a Def debuffer

[unborn glacier]

im not sure if speculated or real, but ive seen the value float around

[half grove]

well for my calcs in shooting range 100 defence on enemy seems very true because i'm getting my numbers right most of the time

[vocal vale]

guys
more bug/ fucked up mechanics
Gravedigger missiles damage
80lv 143949，120lv 148023，124lvl 137410

[unborn glacier]

need more contenxt?

[vocal vale]

so someone used Noah to test up damage received during GD I-S missiles damage

[unborn glacier]

the level is noahs?

i-s, stands for.. interception?

[sweet ocean]

interception S

[vocal vale]

yes

[molten robin]

@unborn glacier definitely additive

[sweet ocean]

additive with the same source or with all sources?

[molten robin]

I can't quite match my observed damage via the damage formula, but it's only 70 off so could be rounding, or defense isn't exactly 100

[molten robin]

3 diff sources

2 diff characters

[sweet ocean]

👌

[molten robin]

used liter + rupee

and generic burst 3 with no buffs

[unborn glacier]

if additive, then stacking attack buffs will have some diminishing returns,

[molten robin]

rupee has stacking selfbuff, all allies on burst, and liter full burst

instead of 70 off, I'd be many hundreds off

if it was multi

[unborn glacier]

not sure, whats special if its noahs level? she will get more def she levels right? so take less damage?
or this is data so we can refer to how def works? 🙂

[wintry ravine]

yo guys, I/m just awake but I had an epiphany about laplace burst.. we've been thinking about it entirely wrong lol

[vocal vale]

at lv 120 Noah takes more damage than lv80

[unborn glacier]

ahh i read 124

[vocal vale]

people are hinting of fluctuating difficulty

[molten robin]

seems likely

[whole fox]

it feels that way doe

[molten robin]

it would be trivial to scale the boss a bit based on average nikke level

[whole fox]

some reason today grave digger seems easier

[vocal vale]

delusional

[unborn glacier]

good thing right?

[sweet ocean]

@molten robinthat aligns with a test that I remember a week or so ago
someone in maincord did some quick tests and Helm was giving more team dps than Maxwell
Helm has the only multiplicative atk% buff in the game

[molten robin]

yea I noticed that about helm

[unborn glacier]

@whole fox maybe interception is also affected by a hidden recommended power rating ?

[whole fox]

i mean yea? but still it feel weird cuz usually i would miss 1 set of circles but idk why seems like im abit to hit all of the circles this time

[unborn glacier]

i noticed my girls tanking a bit better than usual lately

[whole fox]

maybe its just luck?

im not sure

[vocal vale]

[unborn glacier]

when i only raised them by 1 level

[whole fox]

however there is 1 thing is constant doe
U can only miss 1 full set of circles

U cannot miss more than 1 if not u will die without healers

[wintry ravine]

our line of thinking has been "oh it has true damage, it's good vs high armor targets!"

this is not true.

It's only been given true damage for 2 reasons,

1. to avoid double dipping vs def so it's not underpowered

2. It actually does damage over 94ish instances. The regular damage portion will suffer massively vs high armor targets. The burst was given a true damage component to ensure it doesn't do lik zero damage vs high armor targets. The true damage is like a lowest possible damage safety net.

The only times when the true damage would end up making her do more damage than is in super niche examples where the devs code an enemy with like 1million def instead of 100% immune for some odd reason. At least her burst would still damage through that but you'dlikely not want to burst then anyways.

[unborn glacier]

you mean you can only soak 1 boss attack?

[vocal vale]

is this not the place for tldr

[whole fox]

yup

[molten robin]

but it DOES perform better vs higher armor targets (or when your attack is lowered)

[whole fox]

even im at 120 or even 150 im still only able to soak 1 boss attack

[wintry ravine]

relative to what?

[unborn glacier]

there is a difference for me though

[molten robin]

relative to not having true damage, obviously

[unborn glacier]

at 120 im done to like 2% hp

now at 130
my remaining hp is like 50 with cover gone

[molten robin]

I understand what you're trying to say, which is that higher defense still reduces the bulk of her damage

[unborn glacier]

( i always hide behind cover when boss attacks)

[molten robin]

but that's more true for characters without true damage components

[whole fox]

yea i always hide behind cover too

but i miss 1 set in Wave 2 and 1 set in wave 3 and im ded

[molten robin]

or without self-stacking attack buffs

[unborn glacier]

same as me XD

[wintry ravine]

no because her burst does many low damage instances

all other burst are single high instances

they will add true damage for every machine gun like burst

they will have to

[molten robin]

the % modifier from your weapon doesnt care about defense

you're misreading the damage equation

[sweet ocean]

part of that is because of how def works?

[molten robin]

the defense is subtracted from base attack + attack multipliers, and the weapon modifier is applied AFTER defense is subtracted

that means weapons with higher rates of fire and lower weapon mods dont suffer more vs high defense targets than the reverse

[wintry ravine]

🤔

[molten robin]

let me make an example

[sweet ocean]

interesting, I thought it would be the reverse

[molten robin]

say we have 1k attack and 500 defense, with a weapon that does 10% damage with 10 shots per second, and a weapon that does 50% for 2 shots per second:we have a 500 final attack 1k - 500, so we'll then take 500 * 0.1 * 10 = 500,
and 500 * 0.5 * 2 = 500

that's the impact of the weapon mod being after defense, and not before

as you can see it's after the parenthetical statement

[wintry ravine]

that seems so weird to me

[molten robin]

if the weapon mod were instead being applied before defense, as if it were a part of the attack power buff sum variable, we'd have:
1k * 0.1 -500 * 10 = -4k damage

[molten robin]

it must be the case as a result of subtracting defense, as seen in my example above easily pushing damage negative

[molten robin]

most games handle defense as a % modifier, so being subtracted instead leads to interesting consequences

[molten robin]

perfect, thanks for the verification

[wintry ravine]

working out the final damage of the weapon and then subtracting def before considering the weapon mod is like.... super odd no? Do many games do this?

[half grove]

finished the calcs

[molten robin]

subtracting defense period is the odd thing

that's very unusual

[wintry ravine]

it's like it ignores the actual instances though

[half grove]

^

yeah

[wintry ravine]

the method of damage delivery is basically window dressing

unless I'm still missing something

[molten robin]

wdym?

[wintry ravine]

well it doesn't matter if you do 10 instances of 100 or two instances of 500 vs a 500 defence target, the total attack (1000) is tallied up and put vs the 500 def for the calculation

[molten robin]

there's differences in raw dps, range values, ability to clear smaller targets or charge up before a prio target, etc

there's many differences, just how they interact with defense isnt one of those differences

I mean it's normal for defense to not matter for high vs low attack speed

defense is normally a % modifier that affects both equally in most games

[wintry ravine]

there is no diff in raw dps between 10x100 and 2x500 if they both interact with def the same

[molten robin]

they just replicated that here without a % def modifier with how they arranged the formula

[molten robin]

I mean that's normal in games lol

[wintry ravine]

in every game I've played where def acts as a flat reduction as opposed to a % reduction it usually cucks small instances, they way they've set it up is really weird imo

[sweet ocean]

If this is intentional then that's one of the smart things they did

[molten robin]

WoW is a classic example of where defense is a % modifier, and doesnt care about the speed or magnitude of inputs

[wintry ravine]

yeah most games nowadays use % and it's fine

[molten robin]

wouldnt it be weirder to see those examples and not change it?

you state yourself why that system is bad lol

[wintry ravine]

not when you are talking about flat reduction. That would be expected when it comes to flat reduction. I agree its the problem with a flat reduction model, that's why most games use % now. But their solution...

[molten robin]

their solution seems...perfectly reasonable?!

idk I must be missing something lol

[wintry ravine]

nah I wouldn't agree

[molten robin]

the only weird thing in this convo is why you seem like you WANT faster weapons to be cucked lol

[wintry ravine]

I will need to think on it more but it just makes firerate basically a for show element

it doesn't make any mathmatical diff

[unborn glacier]

my research request/thread might answer that

[sweet ocean]

that's perfectly fine imo

[unborn glacier]

@molten robin mind helping me test another topic?

[molten robin]

hit me

[unborn glacier]

damage overflow

kill a mob using smg or AR

check data result (the damage report)

then kill same weak mob with full charge sniper or RL

[molten robin]

I dont think I have a shielder

[unborn glacier]

check damage result

[molten robin]

oh you mean overkill

not shield overflow

[unborn glacier]

my theory is the game damage report is RAW

meaning damage overflow is counted

[wintry ravine]

It's not hard to not cuck faster fire rate weapons in a more regular flat def damage formula, you just give them special mods like penetration or don't thus giving you options. Putting your solution directly in the damage formula limits what can be done going forward

[unborn glacier]

impact is smg/AR/MG will damage will look weaker cause they generate less damage overflow

[unborn glacier]

yep

[molten robin]

oh yea that's super trivial to test

brb

[unborn glacier]

thanks

[wintry ravine]

ugh yeah that damage formula leaves a bad taste in my mouth lol

[half grove]

its a bad formula fr

[unborn glacier]

math is math

[sweet ocean]

now that's interesting

[unborn glacier]

its related to a reddit post i had a chat comment with

someone said he needed 9+m damage to clear a stage

but i only did that same stage with 6m damage done

[wintry ravine]

wait a min.. how can that damage formula even consider multiple instances before they hit

[molten robin]

confirmed @unborn glacier

first fight lost sector 1, same mob killed both times

[unborn glacier]

did it kill the mob though? 😂

ohh then yeah

confirmed

[molten robin]

the mob died in both screenshots yes

it was a 5k power fight lol

[wintry ravine]

are all machine guns hit scan?

[molten robin]

that's why I said it was trivial to test

lost sector op

[unborn glacier]

so using damage result to say hey look my x damage is doing much better.. isnt 100% accurate.

[molten robin]

right

I have a question myself

two actually

[unborn glacier]

so applying to the other topic

[wintry ravine]

so the screen wipe bursts are inflating scarlets numbers then

[unborn glacier]

faster fire weapons/low damage per bullet have more "efficient" use of their damage

[molten robin]

1. dealing damage to a boss part deals damage to the boss itself I assume?
2. more important, when a boss part is destroyed, who gets credited with the damage the boss takes?

[sweet ocean]

another one to the board

[unborn glacier]

1. yes
2. I assume the last hit

[molten robin]

if we look at interception, someone must get the credit since the boss has a set hp

[unborn glacier]

ill update my board post later after i take my lunch

[molten robin]

my point I'm leading up to being that laplace damage numbers are overinflated on boss part fights

she's taking up a larger % of boss part last hits than normal

[sweet ocean]

I'm adding completed researches to my trusty notepads so I can ping peeps

[unborn glacier]

that might be true

can test by not last hitting the part

[molten robin]

not only because she's hitting all boss parts every shot, hence just being more likely to land a last hit, but her focused damage + high rate of fire during burst mans she's super likely to also score the last hits during it

[half grove]

so the dmg shown isn't accurate because of overflow dmg you deal when you kill

[wintry ravine]

she will be allocated the damage the same % of times as damage she does to the part

if she is doing 90% of the damage she will be allocated the damage 90% of the time

the other 10% the other person will score the last hit by chance

so it's a fair system

[molten robin]

I'm not sure I quite agree with that analysis

in principle you'd be right

[wintry ravine]

you just need to average it out with many runs

[unborn glacier]

is that a hoping how it works or your saying it is how it works?

[molten robin]

but I think the way she is played, and being a high-radius RL user, means she's going to score more last hits than the % damage she's dealing

[wintry ravine]

you could say the nature of burst means it's more likely to score a last hit too, I think your logic sounds good but isn't accurate

if scarlet hit her burst anywhere near the say 20% mark it will score the kill even if it does 2% damage

[unborn glacier]

usually this is relevant on story maps. for bosses, the accuracy would be higher, since less chance for overkill/overflow

[sweet ocean]

this is easy enough to test. Simulation always has a boss with parts at the end

[wintry ravine]

also laplace shots outside her burst actually have a low firerate

so are unlikely to pick up last hits

[molten robin]

well I definitely disagree there

[wintry ravine]

idk I think in an actual match there are too many variables to make any statement on it

[molten robin]

faster hits should only be marginally more likely to last hit when factoring overkill damage

but the RL is never gonna miss

esp on say chatterbox, other units will be missing a lot when he jumps back

but it could also be said that controlling a unit inflates your damage on boss part-bosses to begin with

you're far more likely to score the last hit yourself than other units

[wintry ravine]

hmm oh I know

if you wanted more accurate data just don't test vs bosses

[molten robin]

idk how ai targeting works but they definitely arent shooting boss parts all the time lol

[wintry ravine]

the boss missions will be a bit misleading unless you have a large sample size and even then due to burst timings etc they may always be misleading

so probably boss battles are simply not a great metric for comparison

[unborn glacier]

what are we comparing here again?

[molten robin]

I mean they MUST be a metric for comparison

being good against bosses is a worthy niche for a character

[unborn glacier]

i lost track of what the main point of current topic is

[wintry ravine]

well due to damage being allocated on last hit of parts the actual damage a character does vs bosses is misleading

[molten robin]

I was just pointing out I thought laplace numbers on bosses, like the 33m on chatterbox, are inflated

[unborn glacier]

okay that part, we agree?

or we disagreeing how it can be tested?

[wintry ravine]

yeah but the problem goes beyond laplace, whatever you main dps is will have inflated damage

[unborn glacier]

but the theory sounds correct?

[sweet ocean]

we just need to confirm that the nikke that does the last hit gets the part break damage contributed to her

[wintry ravine]

basically main dps damage is inflated on boss stages

[unborn glacier]

fixing my question:
the theory everyone agrees, but proving it will be hard?

[molten robin]

I agree it basically boils down to, controlling a character on a boss fight biases the damage more than normal

I think is the takeaway

[wintry ravine]

proving the theory shouldn't be too hard tbh

[trail falcon]

hitting the missile projectiles from chatterbox contributes to your dps right

[molten robin]

if in that screenshot of 33m laplace vs 11m scarlet on interception, if he controlled laplace all the way, scarlet likely wasnt hitting boss parts the whole fight

[unborn glacier]

manual control liter

[molten robin]

funny enough we saw the results of this on coop

[unborn glacier]

should "minimize" it

[molten robin]

people were surprised at the damage liter was dealing when she was actually hitting boss parts and not being played by shit ai

[sweet ocean]

it should

[molten robin]

those screenshots of liter topping dps, they prob destroyed more parts

[wintry ravine]

I would just avoid boss fights when doing baseline damage comparisons tbh

[unborn glacier]

yes, and the overkill/overflow damage, inflates it even more

[trail falcon]

Certain weapon types like sniper rifle struggles to hit the projectiles from chatter box, whereas weapon types like RL, shotgun excel at clearing those. That inflates the dps a lot.

[unborn glacier]

well it depends on the testing goal

if you testing how good a nikke is vs a boss, then it relevant

if your just testing numbers, then its another test enviroment

[molten robin]

that's why I said boss damage must be a metric

it's just important to keep in mind the biasing effect

[wintry ravine]

yeah but then you are testing who is good vs the boss not a dps test at all

[unborn glacier]

unless its ai controleed.. though lol

[molten robin]

or even rng, if you have a fight where laplace destroyed all boss parts, her damage will look insane

[unborn glacier]

semantics

[wintry ravine]

not really semantics, it's testing entirely different things

[unborn glacier]

there is
DPS test
then there is
DPS on Bosses
DPS on mobs
DPS on Elites

etc

[trail falcon]

you mean to say that the unit that takes the last hit on body parts takes the 7-health bar worth of dmg or whatever it is ?

[wintry ravine]

if you have a solid baseline dps test you can extrapolate their damage on bosses with knowledge of the boss

[trail falcon]

or do you mean that it takes the overkill damage

[molten robin]

that's what we think yes

unverified, afaik

[unborn glacier]

cause DPS test is broad
fierywind said DPS test on boss is a metric, which is a valid specific type of dps test

[wintry ravine]

but if the boss parts theory is true the data you get in boss fights is going to be very inaccurate.. I just don't see value of collecting data there. It's pretty easy to just boot up a scarlet and boot up a laplace and see who performs better if that's what you wanted to do

[molten robin]

I think the real moral here is screenshots of damage done is a poor metric

[unborn glacier]

i think we all agree it inaccurate then 🙂

[molten robin]

my only point was boss damage is even more inaccurate than normal lol

[unborn glacier]

how to test it better, lets worry about it when we actually want to test something for actual conclusion

[wintry ravine]

yeah I agree to this

[still drift]

Due to some top players getting exceptionally close to Lv200 Character Synchro; I have updated my sheet with the respective values to Level 400.

And yes, 10k core dust per level past lv200

Cores have a purpose past 181.

[molten robin]

10k per level? jesus

[unborn glacier]

they always do in idle games

[wintry ravine]

whalebait is their purpose

[still drift]

Actually maybe I should just hide Lv300+ for now

Its kinda long road there

[unborn glacier]

dont underestimate the power of 💳,

[molten robin]

that means core dust is the main wall after 200, right?

surely 10k dust takes longer to get than 21m battle data

[unborn glacier]

it always has been
not including credits for outpost

[sweet ocean]

that's what they want you to think
all 3 resources are walls

[still drift]

My only purpose is to add Data and visualizers to them, deep analysis and calculators I leave to others.

[molten robin]

ah though at 252 battle data and credits double while dust remains the same

[still drift]

Unhid the rows so you can check 300+

[sweet ocean]

@half grove yo btw
Dolla's S2 is actually working as intended. austerity tested

2nd part only works when you use her burst, but it's a little delayed

[half grove]

yeah

i've also talked with aus before about it

prolly S2 has delay

if i just auto burst, my scar can't keep getting the dolla S2 atk buff

[wintry ravine]

a method to test the boss parts theory.. basically enter any battle with a boss part that damages the boss health (like chatterbox). Use a burst 3 nikke with a single target burst. Have the burst 1 and 2 nikkes be something which won't interfere like healer / tank. Manual control the burst 3 nikke from match start and do 0 damage (hold their reticule somewhere low offscreen). Only activate the burst when your burst 3 nikke will kill one of the parts, target it an kill the part; pause and note damage.

[sweet ocean]

sounds like a job for a snow white enjoyer

[wintry ravine]

she'd work well since she is easy to target with her burst

you could do it with like guillotine if you could target the ult well enough

even if you fire a few rounds her dps is low with machine gun won't throw off the test

I would do it but I cannot be bothered I just woke up and have a hair cut appointment coming up

[vocal vale]

bugs that causes u to lose potential gems
dispatch range is 2*- 6*
but 1star mission can come out

[molten robin]

are those x1 1h crates?

[vocal vale]

correct

[whole fox]

Wow even outpost dispatch is bug LMAO

[still drift]

Bruh

[unborn glacier]

FYI
thanks to @solid relic , burst bar build up now has noah!

conclusion: her charge speed is above average for rocket launcher

doing 35 - 45 seconds, which is roughly half-ish the speed of anis/centi, which is still sorta fast

as most nikke charge at 45 - 60 seconds

[solid relic]

Not sure if this qualifies as a bug but the "Reinforce a Nikke's Core +X for the first time" mission is better worded as something like "Reinforce any Nikke's Core X amount of times" since it's cumulative across all Nikke. ie: I completed the +4 mission even though I only have Liter +1, Drake +1, and Sugar +2 .

[meager elbow]

Can anyone test if Full Burst has damage multiplier?

[plush gazelle]

it does

x1.5 iirc

[willow pecan]

50% yea

[meager elbow]

ok, then that effect on Laplas true damage?

[plush gazelle]

yes

it does

we spent a lot of time yesterday figuring that out

[meager elbow]

but not core hit?..hmm

[plush gazelle]

nope

because the damage is calculated before

but core hit is calculated “on hit”

laser probably doesn’t take into account crit hits either

in other words….. it’s not as powerful as we would want it to be

think her damage overall still pretty solid against bosses tho

[unborn glacier]

minor correction

the laser can crit

[plush gazelle]

can it? i did not see that

[unborn glacier]

but the laser cant core hit

[unborn glacier]

her crit rate is low, so it rarely pops up

[sweet ocean]

I think I saved it somewhere

Laplace's burst's first part can benefit from Core Hit + Crit + Full Burst.
True DMG part can't Core Hit, but can crit and benefits from Full Burst.
True DMG part is actually true DMG.

[plush gazelle]

aahhhhhh

[unborn glacier]

but some did an ss showing it can happen

[plush gazelle]

let me try using crit rate meme team

i see if it happens

[meager elbow]

her normal attack alone is already powercrept vesti

[plush gazelle]

power creep?

vesti was garbage alr

not really power creep kekw

[sweet ocean]

vesti literally needs like a buff refresher to function

[meager elbow]

their attack and multiplier on normal is almost the same

[sweet ocean]

aka only pepper atm

[plush gazelle]

i think i see it

she does from 1195 -> 16 sth

used volume to buff

[unborn glacier]

yep

[sweet ocean]

coincidentally volume's buff is also 5s

[unborn glacier]

now, if it only was higher and lasted longer

[meager elbow]

About laplace, gear and cube doesn’t effect true damage?

[sweet ocean]

they do, true damage's based on total atk

[meager elbow]

thanks

[rare shell]

does anyone want to help with the Team Building document?

[rare shell]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J1JPGG-zzRJ2N5w35nmPUeVtnbDOxhGqfOR5IxIh_Ak/edit#

updated the document with explaining BiS per roles

[still drift]

Im growing balder by the day looking at how these devs round their numbers.
Seriously getting out of hand how they handle it.
Never a damn lick of consistency

[sweet ocean]

@rare shellfor a first draft that looks decently comprehensible for someone experienced

[still drift]

Like what kind of rounding system is :
If there are decimals, just simply move them to the "Mid Range"

[sweet ocean]

I feel like people are really forgoing healers for more damage in the B1 slot

Prob because they don't use or don't have Pepper, she's really highly rated in CN/JP

[still drift]

As most of the top players say : Why bother for healing when you've got Suicide Spiders to kill, and DPS checks?

If you're healing while pushing powerlevels, you're seriously risking a TIME OUT.

[sweet ocean]

meh you do 0 dps if you die anyway