I kinda wish the shooting range would let you apply point penalties now, this would make it super easy to test stuff like this
#Research Dungeon
cyan coral
molten robin
around the 28% reduction mark
whole fox
but dam a 4.15% def and she lost 1 mil dmg 
molten robin
observed reduction is around ~33%, expected is ~28%
tepid swift
I kinda wish the shooting range would let you apply point penalties now, this wo...
if you check there's a setting for it on union shooting range, it's just not showing anything when you click it.
molten robin
there's going to be some rng obviously, but at first glance it looks like her burst has been reduced
cyan coral
if you check there's a setting for it on union shooting range, it's just not sho...
Oh I see that now that you mention it
still drift
Yeah, ingame files are misleading so you have to do some conversion into percentage.
Don't reccomend looking at the numbers.
whole fox
observed reduction is around ~33%, expected is ~28%
so if we take 3,330,016 as 100%
(Minus 28% from stat pen means they should be at 72%) In theory it supposed to be 2,397,611.52)
However she did 2,227,574 so which is lower then theorical number doe
molten robin
it wont be a perfect fit because of rng and slightly different comp
but being worse than expected is not a good sign of her ignoring the cp
whole fox
yea true but its within the defict too
tepid swift
However she did 2,227,574 so which is lower then theorical number doe
auto AI behavior also makes this way more difficult but the fact that the number is really close
it's already telling that True DMG is not an actual mechanic on this game.
molten robin
and her burst is an outsized % of her damage, so it should be very noticeable if it were ignoring the cp
like, not a few %
molten robin
it's already telling that True DMG is not an actual mechanic on this game.
well, it IS a mechanic because the ability states as such, it just doesnt do in this game what you were expecting it to
cyan coral
Hard stage that's 46k req while I'm at 40044
Shooting range same team
no auto firing I only shot when lap got burst
cyan coral
I had to pick a stage that had a durable enemy so I could test the full burst
molten robin
I saw that lol
whole fox
did rayels
still drift
whole fox
got sended into the shadow realm?
molten robin
as long as he wasnt piercing, it shouldnt be that different thanks to ignoring defense
molten robin
assuming it does, yknow
still drift
True
cyan coral
as long as he wasnt piercing, it shouldnt be that different thanks to ignoring d...
afaik there weren't any enemies around either target
molten robin
I think it's clear it is supposed to ignore defense, because what else would it? but for all we know it's bugged and not doing so lol
tepid swift
that's my second thought, bugged.
molten robin
but given the numbers being put up, I assume defense shred is working as intended
whole fox
i think if we wanna do a more "controled" Stage i think lost sector is the best place we do it since we can "reset" it anytime we want too
molten robin
i think if we wanna do a more "controled" Stage i think lost sector is the best ...
most of us cant go above power at-will anywhere other than lost sector, too
im always under power in campaign and tower
cyan coral
I can try and test it again once I'm at the appropriate CP for the level since it's a hard stage I'm not really in a rush to complete it
whole fox
but at least lost sector is still more "controlled"
whole fox
as u can reset n go back in too
cyan coral
hm
whole fox
i will try mine at 55K+
cyan coral
<@144772972685557760> since you have the same CP as me (40K AVG)
wait 5 is like 26k
tepid swift
wait 5 is like 26k
the one that I tested says sector 5
you might enter the wrong lost sector
cyan coral
nah I entered 5 lol
cyan coral
oh also they never fixed burst skill scaling right?
whole fox
oh also they never fixed burst skill scaling right?
yup
so how i tested mine was a 2 burst cycle
Means auto skill auto aim, it will be Liter -> Centi -> Laplace
then Liter -> Centi -> Drake
once the burst meter ends i will pause and take the damage results
i may have to retest this doe so yea
need to go to bed 9am class
cyan coral
Ok I'm confused
I'm at the last fight of lost sector 5
it is nowhere near what you guys have for point req
am I missing something here
wait in reeds ss
it says sector 6
it just says 5 on the party screen
whole fox
tepid swift
wait in reeds ss
sry 
unborn glacier
May I suggest a different test mode for you guys for Laplace?
Only the burst supposed to have true damage right?
Just do a run with Laplace only doing 1 burst attack
For penalties is it a gradual drop or not there are tiers of penalty? My original understanding is it's tiers based on old graph data
still drift
They haven't nerfed it yet. Its due in December.
trail falcon
Just do a run with Laplace only doing 1 burst attack
this is a good point, you can turn off auto and then manual laplace, have her hide in cover and only use her burst
still drift
For penalties is it a gradual drop or not there are tiers of penalty? My origina...
Also, the graph I show is using ingame data.
unborn glacier
this is a good point, you can turn off auto and then manual laplace, have her hi...
yep
unborn glacier
Also, the graph I show is using ingame data.
TLDR me the the current penatly behaviour
its tiered or not
and if tiered at which points
cause if its tiered, we can test around the tiered points
still drift
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cbMB9KQeAvL_PDT8t29ipRWB5UnfkKguVElad_DUB4s/edit#gid=666111488
TLDR : Every .09%, You incur a penalty of 0.10%
Starting from 0.01% at a 20% flat penalty.
@unborn glacier
Until you hit 49.91% at which you then spike to a 90% penalty.
unborn glacier
@still drift
so its gradual tiering
then it should be "easy"to test
let me find some chill stage to test it
still drift
unborn glacier
give me 10-15 mins to login to nikke
then another 5 mins to setup a team to test
😂
still drift
plush gazelle
oh yeah
what’s the verdict on laplace
i need to know if i’m supposed to mald or be happy
molten robin
nothing I'd call a verdict, but there's no evidence yet to support her ignoring the stat penalty
still drift
CN thinks she's good.
S- Tier~
Prywden based their tiering off pre-release, then changed from C to B I think, but I personally don't value their Tier List's opinion too high.
unborn glacier
i took the beam damage at early, mid and end.
still drift
Doubtful.
unborn glacier
i removed all gear from privaty and centi
same early, mid and late beam damage
conclusion: i feel like i wasted 20 mins of life dis-proving some stupid laplace myth
side note: there is some inconsitency with the ending beam damage
the lower power dealt a little more
but aside from that
over all though, higher power seems to be doing more damage, as it should be
still drift
unborn glacier
😭
still drift
So I think the conclusion is : Penalty is applied at the VERY end of damage calculation, even after "True Damage"
willow pecan
Imagine lv200 Laplace clearing ch18 cause unaffected by penalty
It sounds plausible enough cause this Dev can bug anything, good thing you disproved it.
unborn glacier
So I think the conclusion is : Penalty is applied at the VERY end of damage calc...
i think more accurate is that the penalty is a stat penalty
not a damage penalty
still drift
Ah true
still drift
unborn glacier
i should have just said stat penalty.. drop mic 😂
cyan coral
that's what I was saying before lol
still drift
Some randoms in General iirc
whole fox
conclusion: i feel like i wasted 20 mins of life dis-proving some stupid laplace...
Sorry 
still drift
trail falcon
I still don't know what true damage is
cyan coral
damage that doesn't scale from external factors, only the character's attack
whole fox
Well hey at least we figured out something right
That true damage is affected by stat pen
Plus we still have no 'clue' what does true damage does anyway too
Soo hey at least we did try something give it a test
unborn glacier
Soo hey at least we did try something give it a test
who is this "CAP" spreading bullshit
trail falcon
I actually want laplace because I don't have bossing units 
willow pecan
only reason I tried to roll for her
that and I was hoping for sneaky mlb
worked well enough but eh, still need actual bossers like scarlet
and drake
unborn glacier
you could ask
not my responsibility to correct him
@whole fox should take responsibility 😂
sweet ocean
Just to let you guys know, once we have a general chat for researches
expect some extremely spicy hot takes
speaking from experience 
willow pecan
didn't you know if you peek at diesel's panties from the left side while rapi is doing a cartwheel the hidden boss will appear from behind gravedigger and instakill him for 19m damage?
plush gazelle
didn't you know if you peek at diesel's panties from the left side while rapi is...
isn’t this common knowledge?
unborn glacier
it looks very very sarcastic
not when this topic started.. but ohll.. letting go
plush gazelle
no i mean the screenshot
cap looks like he’s being really sarcastic
no context tho so hard to say
unborn glacier
ohh well, we can move on then to new research and ill take mental note to not bother with his statements
wintry ravine
yeah I don't know why you guys tested that, we already knew the penalty reduced our nikke's stats xD
still I guess we don't know if the enemy gets bonus stats too? Or does anyone know that?
regardless if damage value is a straight attack value - defence value then laplace burst with true damage should do relatively better than other characters with no true damage
when getting penalized that is
actually if laplace burst is split into 2 damage instances one being true and one being regular damage that may not be the case
do we even know for sure how the true damage vs regular damage of laplace burst even works? The tooltip is pretty bad
rugged bolt
Hard to test
unborn glacier
sigh
i noticed as mistake in m y preivous testing.. but then not sure if it matters
but let me test this true damage shit in awhile
need a few minutes to think for test setup
rugged bolt
Technically you can go to shooting range and then let the other four fill the burst bar for Laplace, so the damage shown is for her burst. Then use the power of arithmetic to derive if the total dmg is combined or split of normal and true
wintry ravine
first test with laplace should probably be figuring out the true damage component yeah. So need some bursts with her passive stacked vs not stacked
and yeah the plan to not use laplace until burst won't work when testing her true damage as she needs to attack for her passive before she does true damage 
rugged bolt
True, I forgot about that
wintry ravine
she really is a pain to test lol
fuck it not doing anything else let me join the fray, I'll boot up the game now and see if I can figure out her burst
unborn glacier
no vision buff (no true damage)
mid damage (highest tick of damage dealt)
with vision (also high point of tick damage).
Note: vision wore off before beam ended, and dealt with vision buff up and gone during that split second almost same also
wintry ravine
so it appears as a seperate damage instance on the bottom 1131 mostly looks like?
unborn glacier
the skills does list the "true" damage part as possiblty a seperate tick?
my might be old so i cant see that extra tick
unborn glacier
so it appears as a seperate damage instance on the bottom 1131 mostly looks like...
its more likely damage from my liter
there are some possbile point of "error" in my test though
wintry ravine
nah I'm testing atm too and the numbers on the bottom is the true damage I think
they only appear when you have stacks
unborn glacier
since triggering the buff requires me doing the burst a few seconds behind the non-burff version
wintry ravine
let me try a few more times
unborn glacier
so there might be some buffs floating out there, i might have missed ( though there shouldnt be any)
wintry ravine
I'm using two R units as burst 1 and burst 2 so no dmage related skills at all
unborn glacier
let me try a few more times
great, i can eat dinner, while you test 😂
willow pecan
no food until it's solved
wintry ravine
👍
willow pecan
where's the whipcrack emote
wintry ravine
yeah the true damage 100% are those white damage instances in the bottom of your pic, they always appear on the bottom with stacks of passive and never without passive
so at least we know it def works as a seperate damage instance
no wonder her ult does so much damage then lol
the max damage value is very deceptive
here is what I have so far
17403 my attack
expected
11.22% of 17403 = 1953 regular damage
9.19% of 17403 = 1599 true damage
results
core hit = 3711
true damage = 1835
actual
3711 / 2 = 1855 atk damage instance
1131 true damage instance
the regular damage seems to match up if you assume the target has 100 def (a likely value) and it is atk value - def value
the true damage on the other hand.. shrug
unborn glacier
@wintry ravine test the white damage with different power levels 😂
i didnt check it on my test lol
i checked the non-true damage 🤣
wintry ravine
hmm
ohh I think I might have it
2 secs
can someone tell me what laplace burst 1 at level 1 states her true damage % is? Is it 6.5%?
as that's exactly what % of my attack the true damage is doing, so maybe that portion of her burst is bugged xD
ohhh wait a minute
all her burst is bugged like every other one lmao
that's why the actual damage value is 100 lower than expected, not some def on the test target, it's just the bugged bursts
ok I def need a laplace burst tooltip at level 1 so I can confirm
sweet ocean
kek prydwen doesn't even have the lvl 1 values for laplace after a week
wintry ravine
yeah I checked there too
comparing the level 5 value of burst I have and the level 10 value it looks like 6.5% true damage is the likely level 1 value
which makes my results make sense
eager ermine
When did prydwen raise laplace ranking to B tier
wintry ravine
so yeah her burst basically does two sets on instances one the regular damage and the other the true damage at the advertised values
what doesn't make sense is this max damage they mention
sweet ocean
When did prydwen raise laplace ranking to B tier
they raised her tier like 3 times in 2 days lmao
eager ermine
They finally realized her potential
wintry ravine
I did see some people say this was a mistranslation and in other languages its says something like upfront damaage, an additional initial tick
hard to see with all the damage instances her burst creates
let me see if I can see a big number at the start of her burst
unborn glacier
what doesn't make sense is this max damage they mention
in theory it should be the total damage if all ticks hit
wintry ravine
yeah but that maths doesn't add up if the ammo indicator isn't just for effect on her burst
you fire like 95 bullets or so
unborn glacier
I did see some people say this was a mistranslation and in other languages its s...
i can check my video recording for the test awhile ago hold on
wintry ravine
👍
sweet ocean
let me see if I can see a big number at the start of her burst
I don't think her burst has an initial hit (it had one in one of her cbt revisions however)
wintry ravine
could be the max damage info is just an old remnant they didn't clean up then 🤔
unborn glacier
I don't think her burst has an initial hit (it had one in one of her cbt revisio...
from what i see on the vdieo recordings, there is no big up front damage that i can see tick up
wintry ravine
7.03% huh..
unborn glacier
530.4 / 8.58 = 61.81 ticks
wintry ravine
I should expect 1223 damage in my results then but I see 1132
this fucking burst man
unborn glacier
I should expect 1223 damage in my results then but I see 1132
power penalty?
or its union test?
wintry ravine
well I'm just in test range
it's possible there is some penalty even in test range or has this been tested?
unborn glacier
it's possible there is some penalty even in test range or has this been tested?
nope i havent tested
but in theory, there are some "bug" in test range
like some chance stuff happens 100%
as per patch note plan/timeline
wintry ravine
if the regular damage portion of her burst is also at level 1 then my results again are weird let me retype them to show
unborn glacier
let me "estimate" actual ticks per second
vapid geode
they raised her tier like 3 times in 2 days lmao
Once. I honestly don't know if you're just blinded by hate and that's why you spout so much bullshit, or just stupid.
sweet ocean
Mhhm, consider me corrected now.
vapid geode
I don't mind people saying what they say about us, as long as they don't start simply saying lies that are so easy to check.
It's free market out there.
You can think what you want.
But spreading lies?
unborn glacier
@still drift actual ticks per second is close to 10, i think.
plush gazelle
i actually noticed that the tier list hasn’t updated the character description which is a little weird sometimes
unborn glacier
I might be of by 1 or 2 ticks
vapid geode
i actually noticed that the tier list hasn’t updated the character description w...
Because we won't change the reviews based on bugs that will be fixed soon.
Also, the whole tier list will be remade from scratch once the 'early december' fixes are applied since we will be splitting the ratings per mode like we announced weeks ago. And reviews also will be rewritten.
wintry ravine
17403 my attack
expected
11.22% (burst 5) of 17403 = 1953 regular damage
9.19% (burst5) of 17403 = 1599 true damage
or
8.58% (burst 1) of 17403 = 1493 regular damage
7.03% (burst 1) of 17403 = 1223 true damage
results
core hit = 3711
true damage = 1835
actual
3711 / 2 = 1855 atk damage instance
1131 true damage instance 6.5%
unborn glacier
hold on my tick count might be wrong
sweet ocean
Also, the whole tier list will be remade from scratch once the 'early december' ...
Thanks for the heads-up. You guys should consult peeps in here sometimes once we set up the research section.
I genuinely want Prydwen to be better, believe it or not.
plush gazelle
think that the specifics would be epinel, who is touted as a weak DPS while she is put in A tier.
plush gazelle
Also, the whole tier list will be remade from scratch once the 'early december' ...
cool beans. then i’ll just wait
don’t want y’all to waste time writing 2 reviews
wintry ravine
my results vs what I would expect to see make no sense if burst values are at level 1
vapid geode
Thanks for the heads-up. You guys should consult peeps in here sometimes once we...
I actually visit this place often to check what you guys are talking about.
plush gazelle
my results vs what I would expect to see make no sense if burst values are at le...
maybe they fixed it just for laplace kek. if you have enough materials to level her burst u could find out easily.
i’d help u but i don’t
wintry ravine
I have her burst at 5, that's why I listed those expected values
unborn glacier
@wintry ravine a full burst of laplace on auto is about 80 ammo/ticks
wintry ravine
<@1039794698564415508> a full burst of laplace on auto is about 80 ammo/ticks
could you be a little off and the burst ammo counter be correct? I think it generally fires 95ish ammo would have to check
unborn glacier
80 x 8.58 = 686.4
so.. i dont know what that max damage is lol, probably your theory about it wrong translation or legacy nerf data
wintry ravine
oh maybe it did fire 95 but 15 missed
unborn glacier
could you be a little off and the burst ammo counter be correct? I think it gene...
in my video ammo stops at 80 or near it, off by at most 3 bullets
vapid geode
I genuinely want Prydwen to be better, believe it or not.
Honestly, at this point all the tier lists are mostly the same and only some characters vary in ratings between them.
But yeah, the one generic rating is bad and it doesn't work anymore.
Especially with characters like Laplace.
unborn glacier
ohh when i mean stop at 80
i mean 80 consumed
so actual ammo left is 920
unborn glacier
bottomline, that max damage value no idea lol
let me check ticks past a certain point
wintry ravine
ohh wait a min..
wintry ravine
ok so bugged to burst level 1 makes sense
unborn glacier
for burst 3 skills?
plush gazelle
burst levels don’t seem to affect her damage
sweet ocean
burst level does nothing atm, makes sense
plush gazelle
are we talkinag about the bug?
nah misuzu said his math suggests burst levels work with laplace
so i just tested it
correct me if i misunderstood @wintry ravine
i tested against the training range btw
too late to do other testing
wintry ravine
nah misuzu said his math suggests burst levels work with laplace
nah I didn't say that I said the results at burst level 1 maths and burst level 5 maths (my actual level) don't match my actual results either way
plush gazelle
ah gotchu
wintry ravine
I'm trying to figure out what's up
the true damage ticks I have are 6.5%
can you guys do the maths on your true damage ticks
unborn glacier
let me do a buffed union run and record
sweet ocean
if nothing else, can chart that up as a potential bug
Prydwen's somewhat partnered with the devs right? Can send the results to them
They do fix false tooltips (like with forehead sniper girl)
wintry ravine
well it might be something else weird going on
plush gazelle
how do u calculate true damage
unborn glacier
im doing 1189 damage from the true damage tick
wintry ravine
look at your chracters damage on their screen and then the white ticks
plush gazelle
i think im doing 1178
plush gazelle
look at your chracters damage on their screen and then the white ticks
no i mean how u calculate theoretical
unborn glacier
my laplace attack 11277
wintry ravine
take your attack and multiple by .065 for 6.5%
plush gazelle
yeah not consistent
wintry ravine
then try multiply by .0703
sweet ocean
unless true damage is subjected to def too?
wintry ravine
that's what they state as burst 1 true
plush gazelle
its 10.5%
wintry ravine
in your screen shot bubba you only have regular damage btw, did you let laplace attack and charge up her passive. True damage ticks are white and appear below the reticule
not bubba sorry das
unborn glacier
its also 10.44% for me
plush gazelle
yeah i know
i realised like 2 seconds ago LULW
but its too late
i forgot u need to charge her hero vision
unborn glacier
so me and das have very simmilair white ticks/true damage %
unborn glacier
your true damage tiks are 10.44%??
of my attack
plush gazelle
but if the base damage dont affect im certain they dont affect true damage either
mine's 10.545%
wintry ravine
this makes no fucking sense
unborn glacier
1189 / 11277 = 10.54%
plush gazelle
same
sweet ocean
We do have access to dataminers right?
I wonder why we can't just look at the formula itself and cross-ref
wintry ravine
We do have access to dataminers right?
I wonder why we can't just look at the f...
we need a dataminer in here yeah lol, would simplify things
unborn glacier
nope, no other buff active
vapid geode
We do have access to dataminers right?
I wonder why we can't just look at the f...
The CN formula was posted on the CN forum, but it was a generic one
Overall, the files are spaghetti
it's hard to find stuff from the mechanics point of view
translations and images are super easy
unborn glacier
The CN formula was posted on the CN forum, but it was a generic one
there are 2 formula
sweet ocean
Well, that's one of the jobs of dataminers. Making sense of a plate of pasta
unborn glacier
1 is a TW formula
2nd is an ugly cn formula
there might be 3rd or 4th one floating by now
vapid geode
there are 2 formula
Yeap. One was mined, the other was researched.
I can't confirm the mined one myself, since spaghetti.
unborn glacier
I can't confirm the mined one myself, since spaghetti.
i didnt study it too hard but it looked very simillair to the researched one
wintry ravine
ohh here's something we can test
plush gazelle
what is the element chart again?
vapid geode
Also, I guess you already know this, but the Laplace immortality/attacking from the death bug is confirmed and it's funny lol
wintry ravine
strip your laplace of all equipment maybe the true damage ignores attack from items, maybe it's just base damage it looks at
plush gazelle
Also, I guess you already know this, but the Laplace immortality/attacking from ...
fits lore wise
willow pecan
Least horny researchers
plush gazelle
10200
wintry ravine
laplace must be naked for test
unborn glacier
strip your laplace of all equipment maybe the true damage ignores attack from i...
nude research im game
plush gazelle
11.5%
u r right
well....
almost
let me taker her cube too
1178/9750 = 12.08%
plush gazelle
let me go test her without her gear
unborn glacier
no gear
1087/ 10306 = 10.54% still for me
plush gazelle
because i havent done that
wintry ravine
oh that was with gear ok lol
plush gazelle
yeah yeha
1178 is with geae
9750 and 10200 is without gear + cube and without gear respectively
sweet ocean
so total atk then
unborn glacier
1076/10200 = 10.54%
so we have same percentages
plush gazelle
1028/9750 = 10.54%
wintry ravine
yup with no equipment but with cube I am getting 10.54 too
plush gazelle
yup with no equipment but with cube I am getting 10.54 too
its very consistent at 10.54
question is
FUCKING WHY
AHAHAHAHAHA
sweet ocean
Compile these and do a research post I guess
unborn glacier
i tried swapping my sr with r guys, no difference in damage.. so defintly 10.54% ish
sweet ocean
..we might have to test all skills and bursts in the game at this rate
to make sure that tooltips are consistent
plush gazelle
i think they might have forgotten to change the values in the code
plush gazelle
maybe thats why laplace is so strong compared to prydwen's initial assessment
they fucked the numbers
wintry ravine
wait what is the % when we remove cube?
unborn glacier
..we might have to test all skills and bursts in the game at this rate
to make s...
its harder cause they arent "true" damage lol
plush gazelle
10.54
unborn glacier
whatever that means
plush gazelle
as well
wintry ravine
ok
plush gazelle
@vapid geode it is possible that you may have been right all along
if laplace numbers are truly like what is reflected in in game values she might actually be fucking C tier KEK
let’s hope they don’t fix this
wintry ravine
how'd you come to that conclusion from what we are testing lol
plush gazelle
how'd you come to that conclusion from what we are testing lol
it feels like the diff between 10.54 and 6.5 is a lot
willow pecan
Inb4 they nerfed the description but forgot to nerf the character
unborn glacier
it feels like the diff between 10.54 and 6.5 is a lot
you got 6.5%?
wintry ravine
yes but her ult is taking 10.54% of her stats before items with items it will do more lmao
plush gazelle
6.5 is supposed level 1 values
unborn glacier
no its not
wintry ravine
7.03 is level 1
plush gazelle
misuzu ask me x6.5 so i assumed
unborn glacier
level 1 is 7.03
wintry ravine
but the point is her burst isn't looking at items and is instead using base atk and 10.54%
plush gazelle
i’m not sure how much of her damage is true damage
wintry ravine
you can easily more than double your attack with items from base
sweet ocean
but the point is her burst isn't looking at items and is instead using base atk ...
this is bad btw if true
plush gazelle
but the point is her burst isn't looking at items and is instead using base atk ...
no no it uses items attack as well
wintry ravine
no it doesn't lmao
wintry ravine
that's why our 10.54% only matches when naked
plush gazelle
but no matter what it’s 10.54%
plush gazelle
that's why our 10.54% only matches when naked
no mine is always consistent
unborn glacier
10.54 % vs 7.03 is practically 50% difference
wintry ravine
it's not 10.54% with items on
plush gazelle
it's not 10.54% with items on
it is
unborn glacier
there might be a 50% buff/mistranslation/something there shifting it
wintry ravine
not for me lol it was 6.5% with items on for me
plush gazelle
wait ah
wintry ravine
the only time we are all reporting 10.54 is naked.. brb door
plush gazelle
TD/attack
1178/11171 items +cube
1076/10200 cube only
1028/9750 no items no cube
^ these are my results
unborn glacier
the only time we are all reporting 10.54 is naked.. brb door
your results is the different one
plush gazelle
if it matters, i’m on SEA server
unborn glacier
im sea server also
sweet ocean
@vapid geodecan you confirm some of these? Shouldn't be too hard to test, I don't have Laplace
unborn glacier
might pop back in every few minutes
study well
unborn glacier
lol
sweet ocean
@unborn glacier@plush gazelle@unborn glacier
When you guys are done, these should be compiled into a single post in #1046549179918458890, will make a great example to link to as a completed research
plush gazelle
someone else can compile
sweet ocean
When a definitive conclusion's met anyhow
plush gazelle
TD/attack
1178/11171 items +cube
1076/10200 cube only
1028/9750 no items no c...
my numbers are here
unborn glacier
<@180946494998839298><@369370608577937410><@180946494998839298>
When you guys ar...
wow i got double mentioned, will do once we have conclusion
sweet ocean
🤦♂️
plush gazelle
have a triple mention
unborn glacier
😂
wintry ravine
TD/attack
1178/11171 items +cube
1076/10200 cube only
1028/9750 no items no c...
wtf
maybe some items are bugged
unborn glacier
whats your latest test results?
wintry ravine
I get the same 10.54 naked, let me rest with equipped again
unborn glacier
I doubt server matters tbh
they might be using american imperialist units on global
plush gazelle
i suggest u run a test again
maybe u were tired when u tested
and saw wrong perhaps
wintry ravine
I suspect it might be my T9 item
plush gazelle
unborn glacier
I get the same 10.54 naked, let me rest with equipped again
this sounds normal
unborn glacier
i wonder if they will make a jav video on it
unborn glacier
lol
wintry ravine
my laplace with items, next I will screen shot true dmage
wintry ravine
ok fuck me idk what happened it's 10.54 too
I even wrote it above actually
like initially I said true dmage hit 1835
sweet ocean
Confirmed then, from 3 different peeps
wintry ravine
then below I write 1131 true dmage out of no where
unborn glacier
since we are doing damage results im testing other chars
unborn glacier
my helm
19003 full charge white damage
attack stat : 10,109
250% full charge
base normal attack damage 69.04%
okay math doesnt add up, rapture base def might be there
wintry ravine
where did I pull this 1131 number from...
sweet ocean
random brainfart of the day 
wintry ravine
1131 is what my true damage would be at 6.5%.. hmm
why did I calculate that and write it down
plush gazelle
why did I calculate that and write it down
because
you
were
disctracted
by
ass
sweet ocean
some chad will do a jiggle tier list some day
I think Volume's jiggle length is like 3s
unborn glacier
who is this?
plush gazelle
idk which sticker u r referring to kek
unborn glacier
the last one
wintry ravine
what regular % are you guys getting then?
wintry ravine
17403 my attack
expected
11.22% (burst 5) of 17403 = 1953 regular damage
9.19% (burst 5) of 17403 = 1599 true damage
or
8.58% (burst 1) of 17403 = 1493 regular damage
7.03% (burst 1) of 17403 = 1223 true damage
results
core hit = 3711 = 1855 atk damage instance = 10.65%
true damage = 1835 = 10.54%
plush gazelle
unborn glacier
thats my 1st thought, but she wear leather jeans
plush gazelle
thats my 1st thought, but she wear leather jeans
true…..
sweet ocean
Seems consistent for now
willow pecan
Yeah some sauce hero can help?
willow pecan
Looks like some DC char
plush gazelle
you already know how it is
it’s time to ping server owner
wait the fuck
DISCORD
NO
unborn glacier
17403 my attack
expected
11.22% (burst 5) of 17403 = 1953 regular damage
9.19% ...
that result make sno sense?
plush gazelle
that result make sno sense?
it’s correct
the first half is expected values
which did not happen
wintry ravine
well the regular damage instances I'm getting are effectively matching the true damage values which would make sense if the test targets have no def value
unborn glacier
no what i meant
the core hit is working at 10.65% "efficiency"
the true damage is at 10.54%
wintry ravine
yeah it's a little off but that could be rounding issues
unborn glacier
well the regular damage instances I'm getting are effectively matching the true ...
if no def value
possible yes
but if rapture in union have no def value
my helm normal attack test, doesnt make sense
plush gazelle
yeah it's a little off but that could be rounding issues
hmm?? you can hit core with true damage?
i was focusing my laser beam on core but the number never changed between on core and off core
maybe game just bugged again…..
wintry ravine
we know the white values on bottom is the true damage because they only show when you have stacks
they don't appear to crit or care whether they are hitting a core or not
it's just a set amount of your attack
in our tests 10.54%
sweet ocean
is it based on total atk% or total damage from the original hit itself?
unborn glacier
ill check an ex stage
wintry ravine
your total attack
sweet ocean
your total attack
it doesn't bulge when the OG hit is a crit/core hit?
unborn glacier
ex stages are fixed levels
still drift
<@439603834319536131> actual ticks per second is close to 10, i think.
I cannot confirm any individual mechanics, I was only provided a file which contains most numbers, but like Antilar said, it's pretty spaghetti.
unborn glacier
so no penalty
wintry ravine
_>
unborn glacier
I cannot confirm any individual mechanics, I was only provided a file which cont...
we know 80 ammo is consumved
plush gazelle
plush gazelle
is the 1424 just the regular damage? that doesn’t do core hit?
plush gazelle
i saw it but didnt realize
hm?
oh that duration is the full burst duration
not laplace’s burst skill
plush gazelle
yes
unborn glacier
false alarm
wintry ravine
what I see in that screenshot is the 1759's..
plush gazelle
but yeah i not sure if 1424 is the non true damage part of the damage or if true damage does more if u don’t hit core
plush gazelle
what I see in that screenshot is the 1759's..
that too
wintry ravine
let me go back to testing ground
stray solar
1759 prob is the crit and 1424 i think is the true dmg
plush gazelle
1759 prob is the crit and 1424 i think is the true dmg
i think 1424 is the non true damage part of the burst
but 1759 might be the true damage criting
stray solar
Can we know the crit dmg multiplier of the lap?
sweet ocean
I wonder if the true damage instance has a separated crit roll or it just needs the OG hit to crit in order to crit.
stray solar
Because i thonk the pierce might be the same as alice dmg
plush gazelle
how does one check crit damage
sweet ocean
crit damage has a base of 150%?
plush gazelle
i got extra 23% buff to CD
wintry ravine
it's default x1.5
stray solar
2127 is the pierce dmg that crit
plush gazelle
1178x1.5 is 1767
plush gazelle
but 1178 x 1.7399 is 2049
wintry ravine
ok I am seeing these higher numbers along with my true damage too but again not 1.5x
plush gazelle
ok I am seeing these higher numbers along with my true damage too but again not ...
yeah it’s slightly less than 1.5
THE FUCK IS GOING ON
stray solar
wintry ravine
1835 true
2447 (the "crit")
sweet ocean
crit damage is bugged atm, isn't that like yesterday's news
plush gazelle
crit damage is bugged atm, isn't that like yesterday's news
isn’t it like not bugged but just retarded
wintry ravine
appears although mines is 133.3333%
stray solar
The crit dmg bug i think was when your stat got reduced by the power penalty
The crit dmg gets reduced as well
To the point that the crit dmg is less than 100% of your dmg
wintry ravine
in ex i cant check my own attack stat
you could maybe estimate based on the helath % cut and see if maths add up
like if you are losing 10% hp you are prob losing 10% attack
unborn glacier
194, 763 hp level 120
core hit 1398 burst 3
true damage 839
actual hp 254658
actual attack 10426
hp running at 76.48% Efficiency
so attack at this efficiency is 7974
expected true damage 840.46
wintry ravine
god testing this is suffering
sweet ocean
god testing this is suffering
but we're actually getting somewhere with this work 
unborn glacier
sooo... true damage is higher..
wintry ravine
840 expected true dmage if 10.54%
unborn glacier
ohh wait.. i have new theory
sweet ocean
840 expected true dmage if 10.54%
off by one, 10,54% still holds
wintry ravine
yeah it's just rounding
unborn glacier
wintry ravine
so this is good we can def confirm that her burst true % is actually currently doing 10.54%
unborn glacier
maybe since burst 3 is bugged... maybe there is a level 8 or 9 there that fits 10.54% ?
plush gazelle
maybe since burst 3 is bugged... maybe there is a level 8 or 9 there that fits 1...
i’m telling you what probably happened is that they decided to nerf her, and then intern kun fucking forgot to change the code
stray solar
wintry ravine
it is doing 7.03% burst level 1!!! 7.03 *1.5% = 10.54%
plush gazelle
maybe it’s not even the intern but the head dev
plush gazelle
it is doing 7.03% burst level 1!!! 7.03 *1.5% = 10.54%
LMAO
that might be it
so it just crits automatically?
stray solar
Crit dmg huh
plush gazelle
it can’t be tho?
wintry ravine
pierce must be x1.5
unborn glacier
I FIGURE IT OUT
i odnt get
plush gazelle
my miranda was giving whole party crit buff but it’s also10.54%
stray solar
I think alice has the same pierce? Maybe you can check her as well for additional confirmation
sweet ocean
1.5
wintry ravine
expected burst level true dmage is 7.03% but it's doing 50% more which is probably the pierce multiplier
sweet ocean
Pierce maybe rumoured to be bugged atm, but I'm confident that this one is coming from Full Burst bonus
wintry ravine
you prob right
huzzah! It's actually working
how the fuck it take us all that time to realize this
sweet ocean
Great job lads
wintry ravine
smh
stray solar
unborn glacier
expected burst level true dmage is 7.03% but it's doing 50% more which is probab...
pierce does bonus damage?
wintry ravine
nah it's the burst time multipler, I was wrong thinking about pierce
unborn glacier
ahh burst time multiplier makes sense then
wintry ravine
any damage done during burst time is x1.5
includes her true damage which is super strong
stray solar
You can prob check if pierce actually does more with alice
wintry ravine
well it doesn't in laplace case anyways not with her true damage the maths works perfectly
sweet ocean
Well fuck
I don't know how to publish this. Because it's working as intended 😂
stray solar
wintry ravine
unborn glacier
so summary, laplace burst 1 is working normally? 😂
i think not point publishing if working as intended
wintry ravine
well to be fair we do now know the damage is two instances
unborn glacier
the original topic was the max damage
stray solar
When we were surprised something is working as intended
unborn glacier
we got side tracked to the true damage
stray solar
unborn glacier
in our excitement
wintry ravine
we still don't know what the max damage means
unborn glacier
yes
sweet ocean
I think I got it
Laplace's True Damage is another separated instance, is based on Total ATK and affected by Full Burst Bonus
Should be good for a thread.
stray solar
Wouldn't it be the total dmg dealt on the 5 second duration not including the true dmg?
unborn glacier
Wouldn't it be the total dmg dealt on the 5 second duration not including the tr...
basing on the skill description
the max damage is roughly 60ish ammo consumed
but fulll burst eats up 80
stray solar
Hmm wouldn't that means that the B3 of other nikke would also do 50% more dmg that what's written on the description
From the full burst bonus
unborn glacier
From the full burst bonus
yes, its a full burst mechanic, so applies to all
sweet ocean
shouldn't be that hard to test
unborn glacier
shouldn't be that hard to test
i tried counting the ticks.. its not easy
easier is check ammo.. which is 80 consumed
stray solar
Prob because of the frame rates affecting bullets?
wintry ravine
more like 95 bullets like I thought before
_>
check your laplace ammo counter plz guys
maybe it is fps related
stray solar
Mine stopped at 916
sweet ocean
i tried counting the ticks.. its not easy
you tried an external tool like http://www.watchframebyframe.com/ ? Just need to upload to Youtube and then use these settings
wintry ravine
Mine stopped at 916
84 for you then
sweet ocean
each click is one frame
wintry ravine
does ldplayer have built in record?
stray solar
Tried again, stopped at 914
unborn glacier
each click is one frame
there is also issue of overlapping numbers that look identical
wintry ravine
mines goes to 904
stray solar
Hmm
wintry ravine
so 96 bullets wtf
unborn glacier
let me do my gd run 1st brb
stray solar
My lap burst is running at 20 fps
wintry ravine
everytime I do it I def shoot over 90 bullets
stray solar
How many fps you got
plush gazelle
FPS DIFF
wintry ravine
let me put on fps counter
wintry ravine
nah laplace burst tanks my fps
sweet ocean
It tanks everyone's FPS
wintry ravine
it goes to 6 for like 1 sec then to 20ish
stray solar
At 12-16 fps it stops at 918-923
wintry ravine
oh ldplayer does have built in record
ok I record and show you guys
when I record I shoot less I think
let me do some more testing
sweet ocean
So let me confirm this again, is the true damage based on Total ATK or the original hit damage?
wintry ravine
it's your laplace total attack
plush gazelle
total attack makes more sense anyways
stray solar
Also sometimes lap's basic attack does core dmg<:SuiseiRaisedEyebrow:10129420402...
On shooting range
sweet ocean
they can, once in a blue moon
wintry ravine
I'm trying to snap a screenshot of laplace shooting more for you guys
hard timing it lol
GOT IT
I do like 94 ish shots by my eye
but when I record once so far I did less shots
sweet ocean
Ok, so if it's based on total ATK
then why is it being inflated by Full Burst Bonus? It should still be close to 7%
I'm having a brainfart here, might be
wintry ravine
probably fps issue
wintry ravine
Ok, so if it's based on total ATK
then why is it being inflated by Full Burst Bo...
you are brainfart xD
it's 7.03% of you total attack per tick but then it is multiplied by 1.5x due to taking place during full burst, so it is now at relatively 10.54% of your total attack per tick
sweet ocean
got it
stray solar
Yea
sweet ocean
she's not even at her full potential 
wintry ravine
I wonder if you had some beast rig with constant 60fps if she fires like 120 shots or something
we not some more testing of this before we conclude
so when you guys just judge it by eye it appears that you shoot 80 shots? But video record is the same?
stray solar
I think the lower fps resulting into lower dmg is included on the dev note
sweet ocean
it is
stray solar
Lap's dmg might go bit higher with that patch
wintry ravine
yeah it's a relatively known issue but I thought it had to do with hit boxes rather than bullets fired
stray solar
Lap will be great again
stray solar
wintry ravine
nah it's nothing
stray solar
sweet ocean
I want to say max amount of non-true-damage % you can output, but that's only ~61 bullets and peeps are already firing way more than that
wintry ravine
maybe some of the damage is simply ignored somehow
or it's a bad tooltip and that is old info that was never removed
wintry ravine
did you see my screenshot allen?
unborn glacier
https://tenor.com/view/jeremiah-johnson-robert-redford-nod-of-approval-yes-you-g...
this one?
unborn glacier
i will test with 3 man team and 5 man team
atomic gyro
I believe the dps is affected by the game physics which is tied to the frame rate
unborn glacier
on my phone 906 left (estimate)
atomic gyro
Something about each bullet being an entity and having too much might have them scrubbed depending on fps
wintry ravine
on my phone 906 left (estimate)
this is what I get too
I think 94 is the max you can shoot perhaps
or very close to it
sweet ocean
You guys should mind the crosshair speed too
unborn glacier
906 again with 5 people in team
sweet ocean
Time spend moving the crosshair = less time for shooting
unborn glacier
i go lower quality settings
wintry ravine
if you leave it on auto it shoots just dead on the target so no wasted movement (well in an actual match you gonna miss and travel a lot unless you shooting something tanky
wintry ravine
hopefully 94 again
burst 1
8.58 * 94 = 806.5% regular damage
7.03 * 94 = 660.8% true damage
burst 10
14.52 * 94 = 1364.9% regular damage
11.9 * 94 = 1118.6% true damage
unborn glacier
lol 916
wintry ravine
_>
unborn glacier
i saw it lag/choke mid beam
wintry ravine
ah so def the shots are related to fps
unborn glacier
yep 916
sweet ocean
burst 1
8.58 * 94 = 806.5% regular damage
7.03 * 94 = 660.8% true damage
burst ...
brid does like, almost double of that
I wonder why she's overlooked
wintry ravine
but low mode not better due to optimization?
sweet ocean
healers aren't that rare
wintry ravine
brid doesn't do double that lol
brid does like 2500ish but no true damage element
and it's single target
sweet ocean
yeah
unborn glacier
but low mode not better due to optimization? <:KEKL:1008348072637636648>
i saw mild lags in low mode in some frames lol
@wintry ravine i have 2 theories
theory number 1: nearer enemies conume ammo faster (seems like an extra or 2 ammo on my phone)
theory number 2: graphic settings -> effect quality
there is basic and high
i consume less ammo on basic and more on high
see if you have same result?
wintry ravine
yeah sure I can try the diff graphics modes
I've just put everything to lowest settings and rebooted, I had everything at high before
at high I was getting like 94ish shots fired like you
huh I have a 17mb download now
unborn glacier
huh I have a 17mb download now
yes need download
unborn glacier
also is that ld9 or phone?
unborn glacier
yeah no problem
on my phone it has effect
i guess on emulator no impact
but my emulator shoots less ammo
soo.. i dont whats the cause except its not consitent
probably why on my eumulator
i dont feel laplace hitting as crazy as others
wintry ravine
could be 80 > 94 is a pretty bif difference
hm one thing I do now notice as I change my settings back
I thought I had everything maxed before but I had fog at 1 instead of 6
I will do a test with fog at 6
unborn glacier
okay, on my phone for didnt have impact
wintry ravine
not sure when or why I changed that
nah just looks like the same exact bullets fired for me regardless of graphics settings
around 94ish
might have actually fired 98 that last time
94 again
either a fluke or I'm going insane
wintry ravine
yeah weird, probably fps related but weird low graphics doesn't help at all
I did a quick writeup of all findings
burst 1
8.58 * ~94 = 806.5% regular damage
7.03 * ~94 = 660.8% true damage
burst 10
14.52 * ~94 = 1364.9% regular damage
11.9 * ~94 = 1118.6% true damage
Damage occurs in an amount of damage instances that appears to match the amount of bullets fired. If her passive is stacked a seperate instance of true damage occurs along with the regular instance; it appears as white damage below the reticule. Amount of bullets seems to vary somewhat from device to device probably depending on FPS. On any particular device though amount fired remains pretty constant. We have seen it vary from a low of around 80 to a max of apparently 94. We can find no basis for the max amount of damaage listed at this time.
unborn glacier
agree
maybe add in about why laplace might perform slightly poorer for some people
like me 😂
wintry ravine
maybe I should mention that this is all multiplied by 1.5x due to occurring due full burst although that isn't part of her kit per se
maybe we should test if say scarlets burst also gets the 1.5x multiplier
unborn glacier
maybe I should mention that this is all multiplied by 1.5x due to occurring due ...
yeah, tht one is just us being dumb
i dont have a scarlet
wintry ravine
maybe instant bursts happen before the burst time starts
let me test scarlet
should only take 2 secs
12893 damage on scarlet
I don't have a burst 1 tooltip for her though
unborn glacier
meaning the buff?
wintry ravine
no just the damage her burst does
at level 1
I want to see if the screen wipe damage occurs before or after the 1.5x burst time kicks in
unborn glacier
i cant help on that T_T
wintry ravine
where did you find the laplace screenshots for level 1 skill?
unborn glacier
where did you find the laplace screenshots for level 1 skill?
my laplace
wintry ravine
oh
unborn glacier
remember she isnt workign that well for me
wintry ravine
yeah true
wintry ravine
literally cannot find scarlets burst 1 damage anywhere xD
checked like every wiki and many youtube videos lol
wintry ravine
huh.......
so I decided to test what I could with scarlet burst
1st thing is it easily occurs duration burst time so it will get the 1.5x multiplier
but weird thing is the math doesn't add up
I have 12893 attack
I see the damage is 136318 on a non crit
sweet ocean
did you have her on defend to prevent her from gaining stacks
wintry ravine
ah her attack stacks that's probably what I'm not factoring in
ah ok all makes sense now
enough testing for me today
think I should post that laplace writeup to reddit or nah?
half grove
wintry ravine
I'm not really fussed either way
half grove
wait do you get full burst dmg bonus when you use scarlet burst?
sweet ocean
@half groveoh hello
This guy has theorycrafting experience btw, I invited him here
half grove
half grove
half grove
wait do you get full burst dmg bonus when you use scarlet burst?
if i remember correctly from this she doesn't
wintry ravine
wait do you get full burst dmg bonus when you use scarlet burst?
yes you do
wintry ravine
bear in mind all bursts are bugged and actually work with burst 1 damage values
half grove
oh yeah
wintry ravine
I can't find scarlets burst 1 damage data anywhere
I posted the laplace data, https://www.reddit.com/r/NikkeMobile/comments/z6zy81/laplace_burst_math/
figured it might be interesting to see if anyone knows anything about the max number listed
sweet ocean
incidents like this remind me why we should always remember to document units' burst/skill lvling scaling
since we can't just extract the value out of the game right now
at least not yet
Seems like we're getting another wave of controversy. Be wary folks.
And look out for apologems.
atomic gyro
The paid pulls thing?
sweet ocean
aye, confirmed
wintry ravine
Seems like we're getting another wave of controversy. Be wary folks.
what's this?
atomic gyro
You can get pilgrims in the paid 10 pulls
willow pecan
sweet ocean
what's this?
don't like linking to this sub but eh this explains that basically https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/z6zk2l/nikke_developers_have_been_scamming_players_with/
half grove
hmmmm
scarlet burst doesn't get affected by range, full burst
but weird the buffs are kinda wrong abit lemme recheck
wait 1 buff isn't working here? 
sweet ocean
try loading your b1b2 with no atk% buffers and calc again?
half grove
dolla's risk sharing is after b3 burst then you get the buff
