Research Dungeon

[cyan coral]

aye

[whole fox]

so..

dont get mad if she is undervalue

really

enjoy it while no 1 know

and when too many people know

dev nerf gun come running and u be like

[cyan coral]

I just def wouldn't use gold tickets for her

just pull solely

[wintry ravine]

you def want laplace hitting the blobs as it's the best way to generate burst

[unborn glacier]

thats horrid

her burst charging is shit

[wintry ravine]

rockets generate way more burst than anything else

[unborn glacier]

like shit for a rocket

[whole fox]

anyways i really need to go to bed now

[unborn glacier]

no

grenade laucnhers generate more that anything else

[cyan coral]

I'm sure lap will be insane for the next co-op event for sure lmao

[unborn glacier]

good night

[cyan coral]

as long as you get your burst

[whole fox]

just dont cause trouble or pick a fight again in nikke chat for me will ya @wintry ravine

[cyan coral]

sleep well nyx!

[whole fox]

[wintry ravine]

yeah I use noah for burst generation personally, I did notice laplace seemed less good

[unborn glacier]

noah is slightly less shit

[wintry ravine]

noah is anything but shit 🤔

[unborn glacier]

i think

i dont have her data, (i just noticed)

[wintry ravine]

you can sometimes get a whole burst bar in like 3 quick shots with noah

[unborn glacier]

always is good

sometimes is "average"

i dont have her data

so im gonna, preface saying

if you can send me the data

then great

[whole fox]

@wintry ravine if u want to really discuss laplace stuff here is more n happy to listen n do real test n data just saying

But please dont re-direct people here cuz idw too many people here n here become a shitstorm really please

Let those people say all they want and let hoopla be hoopla

I belive u have something that worth looking and worth giving test to get real data and research like what @unborn glacier did so its fair a keep discussion healthy and debate a healthy and fruitful too

[wintry ravine]

yeah np, I wont direct anyone here

[whole fox]

I know nikkechat is a huge shitstorm thats why i redirected you here cuz so wr can do real testing get real numbers

When i say we i mean people in this thread whor willing to help out to do test n stuff

[plush gazelle]

@whole fox oi nyx go to sleep isn't it 3am for u now

[eager ermine]

We should get ant in here or something

[whole fox]

It is but

Its a huge shit stoem

[eager ermine]

We have some data

And maybe lap isn’t actually shit

[rugged bolt]

Anybody knows the answer to this?

[wintry ravine]

I'm just going to stay out of future laplace testing cause people think I have some bias, but I will look upon your future testing with great interest

[plush gazelle]

if someone is willing to sponsor me enough gems to get laplace i will test for u

[wintry ravine]

I will send you my best wishes

[eager ermine]

Same

Gibe money

[rugged bolt]

Same

[unborn glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/crypto-gemology-gem-bae-salt-bae-crypto-gemology-gems-gems-gif-24455447

[wintry ravine]

oh one thing I will say in regards to testing laplace xD

ideally you want a liter > poli team and using poli with laplace burst

maybe you could use novel on boss stages and rupee might be good too if you pair it with another burst 3 sup, but generally poli is probably best and easiest to slot in

I think laplace ult benefits much more generally with atk buffs than the likes of scarlet / harran as their screen wipe bursts don't really gain as much from the atk buff as they clear mobs even without buffs

[unborn glacier]

im already done with laplace testing, at least until some real new meta/build needs to be tested

[trail falcon]

Apparently shotgun units like drake are very good against chatterbox because they're able to snipe the missiles as they're being hurled towards you, meaning very good for special intercept

Not sure if other shotgun units will perform as well because she has that hit rate boost

[willow pecan]

Oh, so chatterbox is third interception

[trail falcon]

https://youtu.be/US-MW43rkeU?t=56
if you take a look at t=56s to t=60s you will see that drake snipes every single missile launched

He mentions in the video that this one the first time he cleared special intercept and it was only possible because of the shotguns in his team

man, drake is actually just insane against every tyrant class rapture it seems

[tall fern]

man

wonder what's the meta team for chatterbox gonna be when peeps unlock him

[willow pecan]

drake laplace/scarlet harran/full shotgun team

liter dolla/rupee

uhhhhhhhhhh

random bullshit go for 5th slot

I suspect the meta is fixed for now until they introduce busted new powercreepers

[lone stream]

Didn’t time mention that laplace is close to A/B ? https://youtu.be/9vBe4K_KGlg

The site also says lap is B not C

[pearl parcel]

tbh idk what Japan smokes when they do tierlist at least when the game launched too

[lone stream]

Agree. Just play who u want l

To play*

Also hi alex!

[willow pecan]

laplace shines against multiple parts

chatterbox has multiple parts afaik

and any shit RL can do scarlet tier damage or more against that 5 part boss in simulation

parts don't even break before he dies if you just spam RL shots at him for 5x damage

it's nutty

[lone stream]

Agree

[pearl parcel]

At this point everybody should play at their peace and use whatever the f they want

I recommend prydwen cuz we are partnered with them and ik how hard they work in testing

[pearl parcel]

Hi

[lone stream]

:D Alex said hi back!

Am happy now; and 100% agree with ya Alex

Use whoever ya damn want

[willow pecan]

brb using soline but only when I see you guys in coop

[pearl parcel]

YES PLS

[still drift]

I might be paranoid or something

But something is giving me the impression that they might have changed outpost generation numbers.

Some new numbers are coming in and theyre not making much sense to me.

[molten robin]

Are you verifying their academy upgrades?

[still drift]

Yeah, I am

Ill just revalidate the moment I get home

[whole fox]

Which outpost number?!

(is it mine?!)

[still drift]

No its my sisters who i told explicitly to not upgrade tactics academy

Maybe she lost her brain or smth

[whole fox]

Handicapping ur sister aye..

[still drift]

She turned out to have a level 1 24hr core box on a rerolling account

But now its probably going to be tossed

[sweet ocean]

I literally look at my usb gen every day. It's still the same

[whole fox]

[vestal elk]

so, if i change crosshair movement to the max value and turned off swap nikke when automatically during auto mode, the damage is bigger
Anyone else can test this and see if the results are consistent for others?

[atomic gyro]

On a purely theoretical level, it makes sense since it minimizes the amount of time you're not firing at something

[vestal elk]

I guess, haven't heard much from union members about their numbers so i was in doubt

[atomic gyro]

A simple way to test would just be in the union firing range, set the crosshair movement to minimum and compare with maximum, although since they don't jump around, I'm not sure it'd be an effective test

I just switched to 175 on Simulation and I can't believe I've been playing on 100 all this time

[molten robin]

even manual, I play on 175 movement with 100 for the snap

find it's a very efficient way to quickly move from core to core

[wintry ravine]

Some of my clears yesterday with laplace

vs chatterbox on chapter 13

laplace vs the chapter 13 EX stage this time (my laplace 6 bond only)

13-18 clear, a stage where you have to defend the pylon in the middle

13-19 clear, full auto scarlet died

Just showing that laplace really isn't niche and only good vs certain bosses idk how this is getting proliferated

[atomic gyro]

Sounds really good though

[wintry ravine]

imo most hard stages are either boss fights where laplace is good to best depending on clustering of boss parts or stages with tons of enemies where laplace also excels

[sweet ocean]

prydwen 😂

[atomic gyro]

How are you feeling with her burst?

[wintry ravine]

I like her burst a lot, I just leave it to full auto control as it moves around far faster and more accurately than a human could

[atomic gyro]

Do you manually trigger her burst to take advantage of the stacks though?

[wintry ravine]

nah I just generally leave it full auto, sometimes I will move laplace into 2nd burst position (but always pair with poli)

[sweet ocean]

I think in most situations she'll have full stacks every time before her burst goes off cd

[wintry ravine]

yeah it stacks very fast

[wintry ravine]

what I suspect will happen is they'll wait until the burst bug fixes which should likely benefit laplace and then move her up some tiers

[sweet ocean]

Casuals will call this cope but I rate her higher than Harran, even Scarlet once burst lvl is fixed.

Largely because you can LB her pretty easily.

[wintry ravine]

on the other hand I've read there is some weird scaling between pierce and AD buffs which may be a bug, so maybe that will end up nerfing laplace burst if that gets fixed

[wintry ravine]

she is def more F2P friendly than scarlet or harran, in reality most players should def be pulling 1 copy of her now but it's a lost cause convincing people at this point

[atomic gyro]

It's not, I'm considering grabbing one now

But I'm going to have to do some team building

[sweet ocean]

another fault stemmed from prydwen
it took less than half a day for rando CN whales and a youtuber to find out that she soundly beats Scarlet in her niche

[wintry ravine]

I don't really fault prydwen for getting her wrong cause the testing changes sound like a nightmare but they should have corrected her already, they are too defensive about it

[still drift]

Some of their articles are actually nonsensical, like their "Spenders Guide" until I told them to rework it.

[atomic gyro]

The question is, does our #pve-team-building know that she's good

[still drift]

But all they did in the end was just link to my sheet

[atomic gyro]

[sweet ocean]

Can't take the L. Should have done so earlier

[atomic gyro]

Oooooooh you're purplish Rayel, what's that role 👀

[unborn glacier]

from what limited chats i see

[still drift]

Just a normal role.

[atomic gyro]

Oh it's a lore role

[unborn glacier]

i dont see people say she is bad

just a difference on how good is good

[wintry ravine]

👀

you certainly do see some pretty limited chats

[atomic gyro]

I'll just pull what I currently have for her I guess, then be a big fat whale for modernia

[unborn glacier]

wouldnt that make you kraken already instead? 😂

[atomic gyro]

@still drift @unborn glacier, we're going to make a new proper research channel / forum soon

[unborn glacier]

noted

[sweet ocean]

Thank friggin god.

[still drift]

That'd help alot

[atomic gyro]

when we make it, will ask for some help on research guidelines and baselines and general strategies going forward

[sweet ocean]

Finally. We need to coax more people to crunch this kusoge's numbers apart

[unborn glacier]

and i wish people contribute to my research

[atomic gyro]

Oh no

It'll be private for now

[unborn glacier]

so i can finish it already

[atomic gyro]

Before we can set it up properly

And know what in the actual fuck we're doing

[still drift]

[atomic gyro]

Alex said he'd make it, but I'm counting the number of days before he does

[unborn glacier]

in the context of alex.
id wish he can make the faq bot 1st instead 😂

[atomic gyro]

Need some input on how we handle standards / thread creation / resolution / evidence / baseline testing etc.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dgO8TEuD3zX7gXx37z74igXFgEUoLytYkXRWaNBFRg8/edit

[unborn glacier]

im kinda extra spoiled
since GFL NC and another pc i play has it

[atomic gyro]

i can help bug alex for u

[unborn glacier]

yehey!

[atomic gyro]

I think Custard is the one doing it because bot stuff

But I will relentlessly poke him for u

[sweet ocean]

@atomic gyro
How about a ticket system to open up private researches?
And a special role to see all of the available tickets? To reduce clutter.

Name of research thread/ticket.

[atomic gyro]

Is this for visibility between old / new tickets?

[sweet ocean]

They'll be all public of default.

[atomic gyro]

Can you write it onto the google doc I linked earlier?

[unborn glacier]

for the research. ill summarize my comment:

1. forums sound good cause of tagging as discussed

2. can forum threads have sub threads?

3. research baseline, I have concerns.. but to TLDR my concerns... research should start with hyphothesis/goal
   then a test methodology is created.
   some of the baseline requirements suggested seems crippling or not practical.

4. as for submitiing results.. i have minor issue with video
   i dont have nitro and so discord hate it when i show video proof. and its get annoying if i have to upload to you tube every small video test

[atomic gyro]

1. yeah
2. no
3. A general guideline, doesn't need to be fixed
4. I wanted ss, but there were concerns about validity and the sheer number of ss required

But then again it was just me and nyx brainstorming for like 3 minutes

Go in there and put your 50 cents in the doc

That way we don't have to scour this thread again

[unborn glacier]

okay

[still drift]

Standardizing DPS might be a pain.

Top players have noticed that Native devices run better/stable than LDplayer9

Even I've noticed it when doing shooting ranges.

[atomic gyro]

Maybe that could be one of the factors we put into consideration for our research as well

[unborn glacier]

same comment from me

testing on same device should be okay, but salt needs to be taken when comparing to others.
thats why in my research i decided to use a estimated min-max range

since numbers were getting a bit wild

[pearl parcel]

I will do the channel soon. Lemme fix some irl stuffs

[atomic gyro]

fuck

I was gonna poke u

D:

[pearl parcel]

Its 5 AM for me

[atomic gyro]

Can I have edit perms on the forums to test shit out

that sounds

like a personal problem

wait what kinda weird timezone is that

EU?

[pearl parcel]

Ofc I will give u perms for that. But Ill have to teach ya to not mess with them so u wont break giselle perms

[unborn glacier]

poking also for faq bot XD

[pearl parcel]

Yes dummy

[atomic gyro]

also, gonna throw you in here to give your 50 cents

[pearl parcel]

Need to talk with Custard indepth about that.

[atomic gyro]

research dungeon toll

[unborn glacier]

great 🙂

[atomic gyro]

haiya, i only have TH/SG timezone in my head by default

[pearl parcel]

I nees to take everything 1:1 cuz I might get fucked by too many promises

[atomic gyro]

ye

[pearl parcel]

If I didnt have things irl it would have been good

[atomic gyro]

no rush

@calm osprey Seems like a visual bug, but we still get equipment. One attack, two quicks. You can see the last two has the same rewards but different result in inventory

[calm osprey]

yeah, that is what I am seeing when I test it too

[molten robin]

anyone seen a whale hit 200 on synchro device yet?

some cn leviathan perhaps?

[still drift]

No, even if they did, they're completely stingy with information.
Like we saw an "Overload" gear so early on, but it took a week and half for the full info regarding it to actually trickle down to me.

NA Leviathans are still approximately at 181 Synchro.

[trail falcon]

Overloading T9 manufacturer bonus gear removes the manufacturer bonus, idk if that's a bug or not

[molten violet]

Also one thing I learned while malding Tower lvl90 is that the rockets (and I'm pretty sure it work the same way as the suicide bombers ad) is that they target your Nikke current state when they used their attack. Since there are 2 states for Nikke which would be Covering and Shooting. If your Nikke was shooting while Chatterbox shooting missiles at your Nikke it will target Nikke's Shooting state, so if Nikke went into cover right before the missile hit then the damage would be 0 to the cover's HP and Nikke's Hp. Will try to get some video for it.

[trail falcon]

this mechanic is not exclusive to the missiles, its consistent with the alteisen turrets and some other laser projectiles as well

[whole fox]

video not werking

[molten violet]

one sec

I'm using LDPlayer Recording thing but it doesn't seem like it working

Gonna try to get my Gefore Experience to work rq

[eager ermine]

You need OBS lessons?

[molten violet]

I'm about to download an OBS since the Streamlab OBS one doesn't work for recording

[eager ermine]

Yes, you can take advantage of your NIKKE’s hitbox to dodge things like:
Grave Digger Drill Missile
even Suicide Bombers

[eager ermine]

I won’t say they’re stingy with info or have to wait for info to “trickle down”
The first reports on OVERLOAD gear was datamined/leaked so most took it with a grain of salt
Until recently Taiwanese Content Creator LanMao reached Interception EX and finally obtained OVERLOAD gear and released info instantly (he’s a CC so you don’t really hide info)

So yeah, it’s just even the whales haven’t reach that milestone yet

[still drift]

LanMao was most certainly not the first player to do so, there were already multiple screenshots of players reaching 16-28 circulating on NGA already, and about a week prior to LanMao getting the blue crystal on stream.

There was also more than 1 "overload gear" screenshot circulating around.

Not the original one found that was displayed on Reddit.

[eager ermine]

I’ll look into it since I lurk NGA frequently and will try to report accordingly

[still drift]

Like everyone is aware of the Overloaded Attacker's Helm, it was widely disseminated on Reddit and all fronts.

But here is a lesser known Defender's Helm.

[eager ermine]

Yeah I’ve seen this one

I understand the uneven distribution of info you were saying now

Btw can you read Chinese?

For some reason I feel like you can

[still drift]

Yes, I can read it slightly.

Canto by nature.

[eager ermine]

Aight, nice to know

Those overload buffs looks nuts ngl

[molten robin]

@unborn glacier this redditor appears to have identified the quality causing increased burst generation on some sg/rl units

maybe you're already aware

https://www.reddit.com/r/NikkeMobile/comments/z4yjzi/sg_and_rl_nikkes_with_multiclip_reload_generate/

[molten violet]

Okay I think its working now. Anyway just pay attention to the Cover's HP.

Finally

it work

@whole fox ^

So yeah anything that's projectile and not hit-scan will work the same way I think.

[whole fox]

[trail falcon]

towers from chapter 12 boss works the same way

I think you can also dodge something from that chapter 7 boss I think ? the one that looks like a turtle fortress

[unborn glacier]

Just has ammo.. now sure what other new info it has

Hmm

[molten robin]

not info, just a correlation - those that reload in multiple clips instead of 1 appear to have an extra modifier to their burst meter

[unborn glacier]

Well, possible true, but the other correlation is that anis and centi use grenade launchers

Hence why the different weapon behaviours and not just clip size

[molten robin]

it appears to hold true for shotguns too

[unborn glacier]

I don't have my sheet open now, but maiden is a multi clip reload and has higher charge speed

So that part is true, I'll check later tonight, if it applies to the others

[eager ermine]

Can confirm for maiden

It’s not because I like maiden though i swear

[unborn glacier]

@molten robin does this floating theory of mutli-clip apply to full reload?

All ammo restored when reloading

[molten robin]

those seem unrelated to me

[unborn glacier]

So it applies only on to reloads that restore more than one, but not the whole ammo clip right?

[molten robin]

my interpretation is instead that the characters themselves, because they have this form of reload, have been given a bonus to burst generation

and I dont expect their burst generation to alter when granted a full reload

[unborn glacier]

My clarification is what counts as this "form" of relaod

[molten robin]

that's why I said unrelated - it's intrinsic to the character

burst generation per bullet/pellet/shot should be a modifier being granted to the character like any other stat, just hidden

being granted a full reload due to a buff/debuff expiring shouldnt change that value

[unborn glacier]

Then that means multi clip reload just has some correlation, but not indicator of faster charge then right?

[molten robin]

you can just consider it a correlation, but it looks to me like a 100% correlation

[unborn glacier]

But your answer gave me a different meaning.. I'm confused 😂

[molten robin]

you're conflating two things

1. how a character is designed to reload
2. how a character reloads during a stage

the correlation appears to be how a character is designed to reload - aka, regardless of how reloads are performed, any character with this reload mechanic has a bonus to burst generation

[unborn glacier]

My question again is what counts as "this" reload mechanic

[molten robin]

?

[unborn glacier]

Okay let's go back to the original

Hold on

[unborn glacier]

Those that reload in multiple clips.. what this means

Clips meaning bullet clips/bullets
Or
Ammo clips, meaning a clip is x amount of bullets

[molten robin]

like how drake goes 3, 6, 9

each with its own reload bar

[unborn glacier]

So its ammo clips

[molten robin]

yes

[unborn glacier]

Meaning the reload that fill more than 1 bullet

[molten robin]

they are reloading multiple clips, not just one

[unborn glacier]

But not the whole ammo

Which is what I originally asked

Anyways, we on the same page now

[molten robin]

yea

[unborn glacier]

Reloads that does full ammo refresh are not counted. I'll add it to my sheet

Later tonight

So we can take that into account

@molten robin also thanks for the heads up btw 🙂

[molten robin]

Np

[plush gazelle]

you really think so? hardest stages to me are those with the fucking suicide bombers that come at you incessantly, especially when u r below power req

[wintry ravine]

yeah several of those are bad, I imagine laplace is better than scarlet vs those stages just cause generally the spiders are clumped and the ones that are behind shield foes can sometimes be hit by a rockets aoe. Though obv we just got laplace and I cleared those stages beforehand. Shields are really the mvp for those stages

[plush gazelle]

no shields here

imo scarlet is great cos she does the screen wipe and is strong enough to dps down the spiders

[willow pecan]

no centi = second class citizens in suicide wave maps

[plush gazelle]

but in situations where spiders hide behind enemies, which happens sometimes, laplace probably better

[plush gazelle]

fk u

[willow pecan]

I'm a fellow second class citizen

[wintry ravine]

noah is good for those stages too

[plush gazelle]

no noah can’t relate

[willow pecan]

same

imagine actually having useful units

can't be me

[sweet ocean]

lmao as if Pepper isn't already enough of a god

This is why we need to establish a public library, archiving findings like this

[willow pecan]

Inb4 devs read the library to learn about the own game they created

And then nerf all the good things

[pearl parcel]

Oki guys as all of you requested I will try as best as possible in the next few days to make the channel for researches

Do you have a model? Are you interested in the forum option?

cuz I've received and pinned Deli msg, but it's best if I receive a model for inspiration

[atomic gyro]

@sweet ocean @unborn glacier @still drift @wintry ravine

You can also cross check with the google doc @pearl parcel

[sweet ocean]

Go ahead. Let's see to the foundations first.

[unborn glacier]

anyone need the manufacturer mold pull data/results?

before i pull mine

[eager ermine]

https://youtu.be/2M-Vf1cgLjQ

really weird grave digger glitch trigger

[willow pecan]

I've seen some shit, where I just autoburst normally, accidentally break a red circle

and he just bugs out

like why?

wasn't even trying to proc the bug and somehow I get phase 2 bugged seamlessly

[wintry ravine]

anyone know the maths behind hit% and how valuable it is?

[atomic gyro]

The maths, no. We know the mechanics though

[wintry ravine]

Think I know the mechanic.. hit% decreases the damage penalty weapon types take outside their ideal range right?

[atomic gyro]

No

Hit Rate is bullet spread

You know your crosshairs? There should be a grey circle as well, and that's the bullet spread

Hit Rate reduces the grey circle, representing less bullet spread

[wintry ravine]

oh I see, so that's all it does huh

[trail falcon]

hit rate cube is still better than charge damage cube

[atomic gyro]

all it does, one of the most important things for guns

[wintry ravine]

well depends on the gun surely? I mean launchers don't have a spread do they?

[atomic gyro]

RL aren't guns, they're launchers, every gun has spread

[trail falcon]

all guns have spread

[atomic gyro]

RL has projectile speed instead

[wintry ravine]

what about snipers they don't have spread do they?

[atomic gyro]

They do

[trail falcon]

snipers are guns

[wintry ravine]

thought they just hit where the crosshair was

[trail falcon]

there is some margin of error

[atomic gyro]

Check the aim carefully

There's quite a big margin of error for SR

[trail falcon]

which is dictated by the bullet spread which is dependent on hit rate

[wintry ravine]

interesting

[trail falcon]

pretty much never use the charge damage cube if you can basically

if you do just plop it on a defender or support

[wintry ravine]

idk I think charge damage would still be good for rocket users

[trail falcon]

its really bad, you would be better off with reload speed

[atomic gyro]

Haven't tested it out, but I believe it reduces rate of fire since more time is spent charging

[wintry ravine]

huh that I will have to check for sure

[trail falcon]

I didn't test if it would increase time spent charging

all I know is the dps with charge dmg cube is the lowest for every weapon I tested, didn't test RL though

[wintry ravine]

tbh I've been pretty w/e about my cube allocation

guess I'll spend some time in firing range messing with them now

how would you say 1% hit rate measures up vs 1% atk or does it depend on weapon type in your opinion?

[trail falcon]

atk is always going to be better

[wintry ravine]

interesting stuff

[trail falcon]

idk if anyone finds an application for smg, because I haven't found one

[unborn glacier]

you didnt check the guide?

[wintry ravine]

which guide? the google doc?

[unborn glacier]

hmm... I think i mentioned it in my damage formula post

[unborn glacier]

what kind of applicaiton?

[wintry ravine]

smg just seems to be kinda bad I agree

[trail falcon]

Application in the sense of context where it excels, outclasses other weapons

I guess smg is there to balance characters with good skills; give them a shit weapon

[wintry ravine]

should have given liter a single handgun xD

[trail falcon]

Epinel would've been way better if they gave her a different weapon

[unborn glacier]

"theoretically" higher reload speed is its advantage

in theory, great for hitting lots of spread out small stuff

in theory of course, in real gameplay

not much impact

[trail falcon]

in practice, AR does the job better I think

the low multiplier from SMG really hurts, I think AR just clears the small mobs more efficiently

[unborn glacier]

yeah

[unborn glacier]

i might be hazy, but i think smg has some kind of burst fire/selective fire mechanic behaviour

which translates to more efficient bullet usage

but in reality

yeah AR is better, because of flexibility

[trail falcon]

I don't have epinel, but her kit does actually seem strong

[unborn glacier]

epinel, harran, privaty and scarlet

are your screen/aoe burst clears

you ideally want 2 out of the 4 for story pushing

that isnt boss

[trail falcon]

yea, too bad I don't see many people talking about/using her

[unborn glacier]

we semi, talk about her in the PH server

but, people are too obessed with scarlet

[wintry ravine]

straight up I think screenwipe prtty overrated in a funny way

often wastes your burst strength

like you could use say helm and heal up your team while your burst damage bonus clears the enemies on screen

[unborn glacier]

no you cant

cause you die

unless you like really high power or something

helm not gonna work

[trail falcon]

certain stages you really need the aoe and you can't use helm burst

[wintry ravine]

I get what you are saying but there are other aproaches then screen wipe. I just think it's early in games life cycle and it's the most obvious strat

[unborn glacier]

1. its not most obvious, its st just lots of people complain about chatper 12-13

and so gets lots of noise there

[trail falcon]

3 rows of spiders at different distances with a lot of mobs in between

[unborn glacier]

2. when mobs are behind a shield and have 3 rows, your approaches are limited

[wintry ravine]

pretty sure laplace or just any stacked rocket user with like an alice would be better in most stages when you want to clear mobs than screen wipe characters (not including harran cause she OP xD)

[unborn glacier]

wont get thru the shield and then kill all the spiders

unless your at higher power

[wintry ravine]

alice and laplace ult both pierce shield and rockets aoe can clip through shield too

so it's not a big problem

I think having to wait on burst CD actually worse

[trail falcon]

alice is very strong, but there are certain stages in chapter 12-13 where an aoe burst char would make your life a lot easier

[unborn glacier]

wait on what?

what kind of dumb build needs to wait?

[wintry ravine]

the spider stages throw so many spiders at you that screen wipe is pretty hard to rely on is what I mean

better to have more consistant aoe from auto attacks

[unborn glacier]

i breezed thru the spider stages mostly

im having trouble with bosses

just cause i neglectd my anti boss girls

[unborn glacier]

no my point is to have constant AOE

not auto aoe

not burst only aoe

but constant AOE for story stages with mobs

the girls with burst AOE, handle roughly 70% lage mobs
and the normal aoe handles the remaining 30% or so

[wintry ravine]

yeah can't go wrong with a mix

[unborn glacier]

in theory, there is only a narrow few second window where a non-elite mob

[unborn glacier]

i dont what mix your talking about

but, my team has 1 RL and 2 aoe burst 3

and its not cause its "mix"

but cause that how you build aoe clear

[trail falcon]

I don't really have many good options for bosses either, failed to pull sg units

[unborn glacier]

yeah,

i feel like shit here

everyone got passed 13-15 already

im still stuck here at it

[trail falcon]

yea I was stuck there for 5 days actually insane

I do like alteisen as a boss because he actually has mechanics

[wintry ravine]

I was stuck at that until I got laplace xD

[unborn glacier]

i tested her

[wintry ravine]

oh wait sorry that's train stage

[unborn glacier]

did poorer than some builds

did better than others

[wintry ravine]

I thought you meant chatter box

[trail falcon]

gd is just bad design imo, nothing interesting about that boss's mechanics

[unborn glacier]

nope

[unborn glacier]

the problems is the red circles/have more hp in the later phases

[trail falcon]

I managed to first try chatterbox in 13-18 after beating alteisen, chatterbox is mainly just avoid hitting the core until the very end

[unborn glacier]

so, its becomes a dps check

is chatter box the big out door spider?

[willow pecan]

no, the monkey

[trail falcon]

chatterbox is the monkey with missile launcher

[wintry ravine]

chatterbox is the rapture that speaks

[willow pecan]

with chunky shoulders

laplace carried me through him 2nd try

[unborn glacier]

okay, i dont remember him, or 1st time meet him at 13-18?

[willow pecan]

2nd time 13-18

he was c6 boss or something

[trail falcon]

you meet him somewhere earlier on and sw saves you I think

[unborn glacier]

okay i cant remeber him lol

[willow pecan]

tribal 90 too

and intercept 3? Idk

[wintry ravine]

if you look at interception now his pic is the 3rd one we haven't unlocked

[trail falcon]

yea I didn't use any bossing units and I beat chatterbox

sw if you consider her a bossing unit

[wintry ravine]

do you have shotguns?

[trail falcon]

0 shotguns

[wintry ravine]

I was pretty hard stuck at chatter box for a few days

[willow pecan]

i couldn't do him without laplace, privaty and helm got outdpsed by rapunzel and signal. Did get close, like 7 bars health.

[unborn glacier]

ohh, im near tribe 90

[trail falcon]

Did you avoid hitting the core ?

[willow pecan]

liter obviously does no damage, just brings a lot of contribution

[unborn glacier]

let me see if i get to practice

[willow pecan]

apparently breaking parts help a lot

[wintry ravine]

I destroyed the helm once during battle the aoe would wipe my scarlet everytime

[willow pecan]

like they chunk him super hard

helm has to go last

[trail falcon]

yea you have to avoid hitting the core as much as possible because that delays his enraged form

[willow pecan]

I broke shoulders like 4x, then accidentally broke his helm

and he just died

[trail falcon]

he didn't fire fist me a single time because I didn't break his core until the very end

[willow pecan]

similar experience basically

but laplace carried with 6.4m damage

everyone else <2m

[trail falcon]

I think core breaking is 9 lines and shoulders are 7 lines of health ?

somewhere in that range

[willow pecan]

unsure about core, should be correct for shoulders

[wintry ravine]

testing the hit% cubes and I see the difference in the grey box like you said

[willow pecan]

what's hit% cube priority like

[wintry ravine]

sooo small though lol, can't see that making any diff for snipers surely

[willow pecan]

shotgun > AR > SMG > others, but never RL?

[wintry ravine]

I would just stick it on shotguns or AR

[unborn glacier]

SG > SMG > AR > Sniper > RL

just that SMG kinda waste

since they dont do dps

[wintry ravine]

yup makes sense

[willow pecan]

my signal lb3 is crying in a corner but can't disagree

[trail falcon]

There are a few tricks I used to beat alteisen. At the start I would immediately aim the right missile launcher first with my main dps. I would then save my chain burst until I was approaching the right missile launcher and try to snipe it down ASAP, if you don't have enough dps he will fire a few green missiles at you and you can cover dodge them. Next, I would aim the turrets ASAP. You can actually take 0 dmg from the turret projectiles by cover dodging at the right time. Clear the left side and then clear the middle red circle; red circle only starts taking damage when the big cannons start facing you, about 75% of time remaining from the red circle expiring. After clearing red circle, alteisen will fire a barrage of salvos at you, you can chip/clear the right side turrets and missile launcher with your burst but prioritize clearing the salvos. After 2 barrages of salvos, you will go to the right side. Same strategy as the start. After clearing the right side, red circle will come up, you need to clear everything on the left side before he regenerates his parts. After clearing red circle, clear left side again and you should move into the final phase. Prioritizing clearing salvos and red circles. If you have aoe units with burst skill they are pretty useful here.

Although I had no bossing units, the boss was still pretty fun I think

[unborn glacier]

thats long

[trail falcon]

Yea I think alteisen is one of the well designed bosses with cool mechanics

[willow pecan]

yeah I didn't need to put bossing units in for alteisen

but I was very close to cp rec thanks to being walled at 13-12

[wintry ravine]

so I just tested charge damage cubes and what they do is indeed add 3% visually when charging on the charge bar (2.54% bonus on cube). I guess you could compare a 350% charge character to a 250% charge character to see if a greater charge % means longer charge time or not

[willow pecan]

chatterbox might have been killable if I got another shoulder break off, I was kinda close. So idk if laplace was really needed.

[unborn glacier]

the only real pain for alteisen are the green shits

need burst the launcher down

thats about it

[trail falcon]

I had snow white so I pre charged her when I was approaching the missile launcher

You NEED to save chain burst for the missile launcher

[unborn glacier]

on my current team

guiltine is slightly more consitent

since she has enoughb bullets to attack all the green shit launchers

asuming your damage/power isnt that high

[trail falcon]

yea you need to clear the missile launcher fast enough so that you only let through 2-4 green projectiles

If you let through more than that, your dps probably isn't there

[unborn glacier]

yep yep

[wintry ravine]

yeah 350% charge rocket users fire slower than 250% charge rocket users

soo... these charge cubes very likely add a fraction of time to fire off your shot

[trail falcon]

Do we know if we face the tortoise boss again later ?

[wintry ravine]

that charge bonus is pretty fucking terrible then lol

it probably is still a net positive but superrr minor

[unborn glacier]

unless your after the charged burst feature

[wintry ravine]

you mean the bug? lol

[trail falcon]

charge dmg cube still not worth on sw or harran I think

[unborn glacier]

bug today, feature or mistranslation tom.

[wintry ravine]

sw?

[trail falcon]

snow white

[wintry ravine]

ah gotcha, I suppose it just depends on what characters you are using

reload is obv the best and most versatile of the three

I guess stick the reloads on your main dps, the hit rates on your shotgun or AR and then the charge on whoever is left 😛

reload probably better than hit rate even on shotgun I would imagine

so like if shotgun is you main dps I would be putting reload on em

[unborn glacier]

alteisen finally dead in 13-15.. have to beat it at recommened power T_T

okay back to my normal team

[wintry ravine]

hmm yeah I had charge cube on laplace that was honestly a pretty big mistake

[atomic gyro]

Time to switch some cubes

[wintry ravine]

yeah cause I'm looking at it

If charge cube adds ~2% to the charge firing time which it probably does from what I can see

than the 2.54% extra damage it adds is even more minor. Some slight benefits but it's even worse for laplace cause she has the extra damage on last bullet

so that 1% extra fire time is slowing your cycle albeit such a small amount it's unlikely to matter

but reload will speed up your cycle for sure

surely not gonna make a massive difference but must be something

[wintry ravine]

testing this theorycraft in firing range as we speak lol

[unborn glacier]

cube- wise you only have 3 choices
hit rate does nothing

reload vs charge damage.. reload probably is more universally prefered, question who in your team need the reload more though

[wintry ravine]

I'm comparing all 3 on laplace with hit rate acting as the base as I know it does nothing for rocket users

It's pretty hard comparing rockets as they do aoe but reload def seems the best by a fair margin

charge % vs hit%(aka nothing) on laplace is either a wash or an actual damage loss lol

I'd probably need to run like a hundred tests and average it out to really tell

[still drift]

LDPlayer automation time

[atomic gyro]

Automation? Doesn't the game ban you for automation?

[still drift]

Doubtful since we don't farm.

[atomic gyro]

Ah fair enough

Wait, but there's no farming

[still drift]

Yeah, its only useful for doing redundant tasks, like perhaps running a script that does Union Range for 3 mins, then taking a screenshot, then repeating.

[atomic gyro]

Ahhhh for science

[still drift]

[wintry ravine]

I'm running each cube 10 times and writing down results

[wintry ravine]

results of my garbo totally non scientific testing xD

reload
2,200,xxx
2,360,xxx
2,393,xxx
2,379,xxx
2,558,xxx
2,580,xxx
2,398,xxx
2,314,xxx
2,260,xxx
2,219,xxx
average
2366

hit
2,176,xxx
2,065,xxx
2,125,xxx
2,388,xxx
2,428,xxx
2,171,xxx
2,103,xxx
2,528,xxx
2,233,xxx
2,233,xxx
average
2245

charge
2,145,xxx
1,860,xxx
1,814,xxx
2,711,xxx
2,052,xxx
2,295,xxx
2,577,xxx
1,972,xxx
2,038,xxx
2,501,xxx
average
2197

[atomic gyro]

very interesting

[wintry ravine]

I wouldn't draw too much from this but I think it's safe to say reload is just best (which was pretty obvious anyways). Looks although as I predicted charge is either worse or a complete wash with hit which literally does nothing for laplace but you'd really need a much bigger data set to really get an answer to that

[atomic gyro]

How much % is the charge cube again?

let's see if it's roughly within x% of the hit

[wintry ravine]

2.54%

[atomic gyro]

That looks about right actually

It's roughly around that much lower than hit

[wintry ravine]

but it seems to take time to add that damage so I wouldn't expect it to result in 2.54% gains

[atomic gyro]

The thing is

Technically the increased damage should compensate

So why is it even lower instead? Maybe because of more time charging, we get less shots in the firing range? Since we have a limited amount of time?

[wintry ravine]

it could be that yes or just rng

[atomic gyro]

Counting on you to run it another 300 times

[wintry ravine]

lol nah I'm just gonna run reload on my core DPS and the the other two cubes are shit

Use 2 reload on DPS, use 2 hit on next two most important and then give the unlucky son of a bitch the charge

ugh

I just had a thought.. I guess reload usefulness varies a lot from character to character, I'd prob need to test hit vs reload on each AR character I use

https://tenor.com/view/fred-daphne-scooby-doo-depression-existence-is-suffering-gif-15482546

fuck it at least AR users are far less rng, I'll do some privaty testing

[atomic gyro]

[wintry ravine]

did a smaller sample with privaty

reload
2,644
2,615
2,734
2,556
2,612
average
2632

hit
2,601
2,756
2,567
2,637
2,685
average
2649

virtually the same

and she has 1 second reload time, super low

AR users are the second best use case for the hit cube (best being shotgun) and it's still a tie here

I wouldn't actually be surprised if reload was just better on shotgunners than hit as well since shot gunners will spend a lot more time reloading than privaty

so yeah previous advice stands
Highest two DPS > reload cube
Next 2 > hit cube
lowest DPS > charge cube

charge might actually be better than hit on snipers I guess

anyways seems like it's all pretty marginal

although that said privaty is my 2nd best dps in my current team and I'm leaving her with hit after this test

[still drift]

Wait, we actually do get Power Level penalty in Tribe Tower

Not just Campaign

[sweet ocean]

only place that doesn't is simu

[whole fox]

Well i feel like u take power level penalties anywhere n everywhere

Soo

[pearl parcel]

I want a straight up list with those that are interested in researching

I made the channel private and I want to add you guys in the list of being able to see it

forum feature + I think I will also make a normal channel if you guys are interested in that

[still drift]

Should we tie it to a role or something?

[pearl parcel]

Hmmmm....

I think we should do that

I think I can give you guys the Maid for help role

and tied it to that channel until you make what you wish for

[still drift]

Yeah I was about to ask regarding that role, because I'm pretty sure 90% of the list has already made a writeup/guide/analysis equivalent already, and those who show that type of dedication should be able to access Research Channels for sure.

[pearl parcel]

@still drift @whole fox @atomic gyro

[whole fox]

Sup

[atomic gyro]

#1046549179918458890

Nice

[pearl parcel]

Right now you have the maid for help role

AND YOU

have the right to edit that channel

however you want

even editing the description

[still drift]

[atomic gyro]

Time to create an Alex shitpost thread

[still drift]

[tall fern]

[pearl parcel]

[whole fox]

"maid for you"

[pearl parcel]

I am on the verge of wanting to commit crimes against humanity... pls

Please do tell me if you need a normal channel too

and I can arrange that

[sweet ocean]

I'll be right here if you guys want to ask about structuring and such
nice to see that we're getting somewhere

[whole fox]

Well there could also be others who cab help chime in on data like allen bubba misuzu n stuff

[pearl parcel]

Welcome too

[still drift]

^

[sweet ocean]

Once the whole project's unveiled to the public, we definitely need a general chat channel

[pearl parcel]

I forgot to add you too Bubba

[whole fox]

Allen and misuzu too btw

[pearl parcel]

@unborn glacier

@wintry ravine

Done

[whole fox]

Noice

[pearl parcel]

Also before starting to develop the channel

Please ping me when you do changes or you guys are stuck

and PLEASE do make some rules first and pin them there

thank you very much and I am glad I've met such dedicated people

[still drift]

Just reviewing what people suggested on the Google Doc for now.

[whole fox]

Yes im enslaved to do the Campaign mission at rayel doc

[still drift]

Just wait for me to find the Range Data

Its buried somewhere

[whole fox]

Its a race now aye

Me to reach chapter 16 vs u finding the range data

[atomic gyro]

There are guidelines and I wrote something basic for it

We probably should have a single thread for all the research results

[pearl parcel]

Oh yeah write in the guide lines, but also make a post and pin it, but structure the rules and make it look appealing to read, not that many would read it though...

[still drift]

It feels pretty cluttered and everything moves up that way, so I feel mixed.
Research topics should be specific, narrow, and focused.
Findings should be concise and one liners though.

[atomic gyro]

I believe the guidelines will be shown every time you make a thread

Going to test that out now

[whole fox]

If u want we can spilt into like

[atomic gyro]

There's no other way of organisation in discord currently though

[whole fox]

Anyway class

Brb

[pearl parcel]

You guys can make a thread for every single thing

not everything need to be piled up

in a single thread

[still drift]

mhm

[atomic gyro]

My idea was, a single researched thread that is locked, that simply says the topic, and a link to the thread summary

Because 100% people don't know how to search properly

[still drift]

Ah true.

[pearl parcel]

Oh yeah

like presenting the specific research

and after that link it to another thread

[whole fox]

Yup n stay on that topic yup

[atomic gyro]

Exactly

[whole fox]

Me agree

[atomic gyro]

So you just search on that thread

[pearl parcel]

like there are many possibilities

[still drift]

Just to make sure, Research Factory would still allow for normal members to view, correct?

[atomic gyro]

Yes

It's private for now for testing

[pearl parcel]

you guys are free to do whatever you want with that channel

[whole fox]

Also how can we bring in others to chine in to help if they r interested?

[pearl parcel]

it's private for you guys rn and will be public later

just ping me for every modification you do or if you get stuck at smth

[atomic gyro]

Right now it's just us to deal with the infrastructure

[whole fox]

Bring dem here to research dungeon to proof their worthy?

[atomic gyro]

We'll turn it public later

[pearl parcel]

also don't hesitate to ping me if you want me to add more ppl

[whole fox]

Before brining in maid to you?

[pearl parcel]

yes

I want to know the people better before handling them an entire channel

[whole fox]

Arite

[pearl parcel]

rn I trust you guys the most

and you guys proved to be 300 iq in research

[atomic gyro]

inb4 10 shitposts

NSFW Research

[whole fox]

Alex will nuke u

[atomic gyro]

Research the undoubted line between legal and illegal NSFW

[whole fox]

Its not call nsfw its call body reference

[atomic gyro]

Gotta research those Spare bodies

[pearl parcel]

I will either take a break or leave permanently the server soon

but I want to make some final touches for you guys

[whole fox]

[atomic gyro]

Alex no

[whole fox]

Alexless

[atomic gyro]

Alexless server is like

Nikkeless Nikke

[whole fox]

Take a break yea but dun leave

Nu

[pearl parcel]

I am the type that doesn't take to heart what people say, but today was too much for me too

[atomic gyro]

What happened D:

dw questioning center is a safe space

On topic stuff, we probably would need a role to deny write access to the research factory to prevent / block certain trolls

[whole fox]

Better nike chat AHHHA

[pearl parcel]

I've added the embed

[atomic gyro]

[pearl parcel]

when you want to add a channel to the rules and it's not working just <#IDchannel>

👌

[atomic gyro]

Noice

[atomic gyro]

Also, you can always DM me if you want someone to talk to

[pearl parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-bros-bro-code-dude-bro-hug-gif-15039924

[atomic gyro]

Now let's see mass pings coming to me now that my name's on the guidelines

[pearl parcel]

also don't forget to bold and arrange things

it's

https://tenor.com/view/ramsay-raw-gif-13771788

[sweet ocean]

I'll post an example of a channel linking to all completed researches/theories/mechanics.

[atomic gyro]

shhhhhhhhhhhh

it's still cooking

of course it's raw

[pearl parcel]

aaaa I see

[atomic gyro]

Need to make tags though

[pearl parcel]

it's a normal channel

[atomic gyro]

What kinda tags do we want

[pearl parcel]

and it's linking them to every research

[pearl parcel]

don't bother with tags, at least not now

[atomic gyro]

Yes, precisely

[sweet ocean]

each of the links can go to a doc or an external site

For example this one compiles all messages inside the channel itself.
We obviously need someone to reformat all findings into a single presentable source.

[pearl parcel]

My God they have a bot for that

[sweet ocean]

An example of a verified, proven finding inside the channel

[atomic gyro]

I'm more for editing the executive summary with the results, that include external links

[sweet ocean]

The theorycrafting community for this game is waay too big (and dedicated) 😂

[whole fox]

Indeed they r

[pearl parcel]

I need to find a bot that do that

idk I think we should start

like step by step

[whole fox]

Or ask custards to allow giselle to help us

[pearl parcel]

cuz that it's too much work tbh

and I already had problems with embeds today

well ping Cussy here and let him know about the project

[whole fox]

Anyway im in class dying so i shluld. Go back dying

[pearl parcel]

Good luck dying bro

[atomic gyro]

Yeah baby steps

[pearl parcel]

[atomic gyro]

We just got the forum up

Time to setup the rules

And guidelines

[whole fox]

Even my software has. Protecc and attaccc

[atomic gyro]

Fuck we can only pin one post?

Damn it

[pearl parcel]

sadly yes

that's the limitation of forum feature

because

DISCORD

[still drift]

[atomic gyro]

Is all good

Anyway going to go start making dinner, if any of ya'll have any ideas, you can just make a new thread

Might as well take advantage of it while we organise this shit

[pearl parcel]

well we can always make a normal channel too

but forum feature is too damn good to pass on when it comes to posting individual research

[sweet ocean]

For anyone in here who's wanting to start some researches, here's a rentry of a lot of "tryhard" info, including things related to reload speed, ammo, attack speed, etc..
https://rentry.org/nikg_tryhard

This may or may not have came from the author of the giant datamine rentry.

[still drift]

Comprehensive DPS calculator with ALL the variables

Would be geniunely fearsome when someone releases a Viktorlab for Nikke

[atomic gyro]

You have the role, you can start it yourself in the #1046549179918458890

We need more examples

[sweet ocean]

I'm handling that out so people can have "marks" to start with

these look correct, but I have no way of contacting the author himself to verify his methods

so the only thing left to do is to reverse enginner

[sweet ocean]

More example of a research thread.

[pearl parcel]

WAIT POG THEY ARE USING CARL AS A BOT

I wonder who TiBot is

It might be custom made

[atomic gyro]

Is it time Alex?

That we make our own?

[pearl parcel]

Well I don't have experience in coding bots

I worked in editing plugins for Minecraft servers and making servers though

God damn Java

configs

[atomic gyro]

I made bots in three different languages, Go, Javascript, C (I don't know what came over me)

C was absolute fucking hell

[pearl parcel]

I used to do sites too when I was young, but f that.

[atomic gyro]

ew front end shit is disgusting D:

[pearl parcel]

F-ing HTML and CSS

messed a {

opsie your front page is fked

[atomic gyro]

hmu if we even want to make a custom bot

[pearl parcel]

Time to learn a new dev language

[sweet ocean]

Posted an example thread, lemme know what you think.

[pearl parcel]

It's actually very good

especially to be followed as a model

[atomic gyro]

I would say to use python, since I'm working in python right now, but no strict typing makes me very sad

[sweet ocean]

@pearl parcelAsked one of the honchos, he said it's a fork of this.
https://tickettool.xyz/

TiBot that is.

[pearl parcel]

No way

I will look with Custard into this

and will add it and properly test it

[plush gazelle]

do y’all still need laplace testing?

[whole fox]

I belive allen and miz are pretty deep in laplace test alrwady

[plush gazelle]

ogey

[sweet ocean]

another example thread done

[unborn glacier]

Let me know is my thread is correct or what needs improving

[plush gazelle]

what thread

[atomic gyro]

@sweet ocean @unborn glacier I made some tags, and tagged some randomly, what do you think and what tags do you think we're missing

@whole fox get in there too

I'll just make a new thread for feedback on tags

[unborn glacier]

Game mechanics, damage overflow related . It's the only one made be me so far 😂

It's a real research thread btw, not just sample

[atomic gyro]

Yes

I think Damage Overflow as a tag might be too specific though

Damage Mechanics?

Well I have Damage Calculations already

[unborn glacier]

Category tag or specific tag for this topic?

[atomic gyro]

I labelled it as Damage Calculations

[unborn glacier]

Sure

[atomic gyro]

We're fucked, we're only allowed a maximum of 20 tags

[whole fox]

hehe

ya decide

i need to do work

[atomic gyro]

this is work

get back here

[sweet ocean]

If we can somehow have two pins up at the same time that'd be great.

What you linked in the rule pin is a template for a megathread. You might want to link to my other example thread also for a single thread template. Lest people get confused.

@atomic gyro gonna off for a bit, lemme know what ya need later

[atomic gyro]

I'm about to sleep, will sort those out tomorrow morning

[sweet ocean]

Gonna reformat my example threads later.

[eager ermine]

special interception damage chart?

[still drift]

"Laplace C Tier"

[whole fox]

Lets not spark another laplace drama here

Lets just appreciated that she is undervalued

btw does true damage ignore stat pen?

[still drift]

Would have to ask Allen, not too clear on the Damage Formula specifics with Laplace.

[whole fox]

@tepid swift

can u try it out?

[unborn glacier]

Should ignore def.. but ignore I enalty would be interesting

[tepid swift]

awoga

hold on

[whole fox]

laplace true damage does it ignore penalty?

[tepid swift]

wait what does that even mean

does that mean it ignores the under cp req debuff?

[molten robin]

That's the question being asked

[still drift]

You'd have to test it out in Tower/Campaign which might be a pain.

[cyan coral]

why wouldn't it ignore penalty? it's true damage, that means it does the number it states it does no matter any factor

[molten robin]

That isn't necessarily implied by true damage

[tepid swift]

I could test it with battle statistics but idk where I should test it.

give me suggestion.

[whole fox]

i belive true damage meaning would be her burst so yea

[cyan coral]

only her burst yes

[whole fox]

@rugged sorrel

[tepid swift]

if it works like DOTA2 true dmg then yea it should ignore the penalty ig?

[cyan coral]

I would assume it works like regular old true damage so yes

[still drift]

All this speculation talk but no testing

[rugged sorrel]

Didnt know this exists

[molten robin]

true damage is just a term 😅 it doesnt translate to mechanics

[rugged sorrel]

Lmao

[cyan coral]

true damage is a term to describe a mechanic

[tepid swift]

well it's a mechanic in other games.

[cyan coral]

it's been around for like

a decade

or more

[tepid swift]

yea true.

[still drift]

Yeah, and Crit is generally also Multiplicative in most games but here we are

[tepid swift]

crit broke

[molten robin]

what it means elsewhere means literally nothing

just results

[cyan coral]

this is the only game I've ever seen do crit the way it does

[still drift]

Precisely.

[whole fox]

yea but if we follow this graph i think rayel got from data mining or smt

[tepid swift]

where do you want me to test it @whole fox

[still drift]

Campaign or Tower, your choice. against Sim or Lost Sector

[cyan coral]

does the point gap effect stats or just damage itself

[whole fox]

yea ur choice

[molten robin]

you can test it in lost sector

[whole fox]

lost sector could be a more easier controlled enivorment too

[tepid swift]

will do.

I'll do 2 tests, under the req and same with the req

brb

[still drift]

By the way its written in the JSON file, it seems to imply stats.

[tepid swift]

if both deal the same dmg then True Damage exists as a mechanic in this gaem

[whole fox]

@deep socket

[molten robin]

well true damage exists as a mechanic in this game whether it ignore the power penalty or not

[whole fox]

it could be a reason why laplace can do like

33 mil dmg doe

if it's true that true damage ignore the cp pen

[molten robin]

that's intercept though, no power penalty

[whole fox]

yea thats true too

[cyan coral]

the only way it would be effected would be if attack itself was lowered as a value

[deep socket]

A lab of information.

[cyan coral]

like the base attack stat I mean

[whole fox]

wait..

[still drift]

Which is the case right?

[whole fox]

@still drift does cp stat pen affects Lost Sector?

[still drift]

lemme check.

[molten robin]

it does

I've checked before

[still drift]

Yes.

[molten robin]

I told antillar over a week ago and he never added it

[still drift]

Stat Increase GID is 40000, (Penalty applied)

[molten robin]

we know it does, because otherwise the observed damage reduction would vary with buffs

and afaik it doesnt

[whole fox]

then prob worth checking out on True damage does it ignore the CP Pen

anways @tepid swift u want me to make an fourm for u at the research Factory?

so we can log it too

anyways i made a fourm post over there u can log there too as well

[molten robin]

but even if it doesnt ignore the penalty, since defense is a flat reduction from attack in this game, true damage which ignores defense is insane if the enemy defense is super high compared to your attack

[whole fox]

i mean its a possiblity and a theory atm

[molten robin]

if I have 20k attack and enemy defense is 15k, ignoring defense is literally a 400% damage increase

[whole fox]

heck soon we can rename this channel to the mythbusters

[molten robin]

afaik that's not just a possibility, she ignores defense right?

though it's speculation on how high the defense of that intercept boss is

[whole fox]

i think the term "true damage" is rather vage

vauge

[molten robin]

vague

[whole fox]

since we dunno does it ignore defense or not

[molten robin]

that's fair if not known yet

[cyan coral]

what would it do if not that

[molten robin]

well, yea

[still drift]

Ignore defense, but not ignore penalty.

[molten robin]

I think it's obvious it ignores defense but it should be verified if it hasnt been lol

[whole fox]

yea but i belive we are on the topic on ignoring the stat penalty

[molten robin]

I'm not sure there's anything else to ignore

[molten robin]

I was just providing a followup on the question of how laplace could do 33m on that boss

and if its defense is high, that would go a long way

[whole fox]

yea i know but still that could also be a possbility too

[cyan coral]

what's the largest gap the penalty effects, or does it just keep penalizing the bigger the gap

[whole fox]

@still drift has it all down here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cbMB9KQeAvL_PDT8t29ipRWB5UnfkKguVElad_DUB4s/edit#gid=666111488

here is the link

[still drift]

The numbers are fairly unfriendly to human eyes, I'd just look at the graph.

[tepid swift]

nah I don't think I'll go too in-depth to this Laplace Theorycrafting since i'm still in the middle of work.

also I tested Laplace

[whole fox]

i mean it's arite cuz as long we got it logged or something

[tepid swift]

Sector 5 above req by a little full auto.

[whole fox]

others can help to take over as well

[tepid swift]

Sector 5 2K-3K CP under req (survives longer)

wait hold on, does Maiden ATK buff apply to everyone?

[molten robin]

her damage appears to be reduced by the same proportion that drake's is

[molten robin]

no

[tepid swift]

basically everyone's dmg

[whole fox]

its almost 1mil doe

let see

under 2k power so u should be around the 50% pen

[molten robin]

err, it's a % deficit

not absolute

[whole fox]

oh

wosp

give or take its 10%?

or 20%?

[molten robin]

a 4.15% deficit