Research Dungeon

[warped mural]

manual/auto doesn't matter as long as he did the same for all tests

but the dmg seeams pretty similar

[whole fox]

Give or take... It still lower average

But its better than losing 1mil dmg

[lean shadow]

It's lower, since we could have +ATK from Yulha on higher levels

I think she scales more than Privaty buffs

[whole fox]

Well the 1 thing i alway say is that priv will alway be handicapping Scarlet so.. That still true to some extent

[warped mural]

I do agree with that

[whole fox]

But at least there is a way to compensate it soo

[lean shadow]

buuuut, Privaty has more jiggle than Yulha

[summer coyote]

yeah if we tested yulha with max burst and privaty with max burst

the difference would probably be very distinct

its why cn loves yulha so much

[whole fox]

Oh hey

[summer coyote]

hey

[unborn glacier]

I just got centi today.

her shield doesnt seem to be working (same bug as poli, doesnt share with others)
not sure why people say her shield is good

and why she is green up arrow only in bugs

[leaden wren]

shield bug for poli and centi isnt a bug

they shield health are shared

so its only on centi/poli

she is good in suicide bomber missions

because shield ignores dmg past threshold

[unborn glacier]

i dont undertand what you mean here?

[unborn glacier]

and this one also

[leaden wren]

it doesnt matter if centi or 4 other units takes the dmg

the shield on centi's health will godown

because the dmg is shared between all units

Shields in this game provides a last chance mechanics. If you have 100 shield and took 10000000000 dmg. it will still count as 100 dmg and not go through to your health

there are exceptions

[unborn glacier]

isnt it a bug or the skill istelf not listing the effect?

[unborn glacier]

okay this part i understnad now

[leaden wren]

its definitely not a bug

if you wont take it from me, Antillar explained it before

juts bad translation as always

[unborn glacier]

its not listed in skills though, the damage sharing

[unborn glacier]

that could be possible

[leaden wren]

ye but thats how it works

same way poli's shield work

[unborn glacier]

poli has damage sharing skill

she is supposed to work that way

[leaden wren]

no her burst dmg sharing skill works even without s2

[unborn glacier]

yes

[leaden wren]

and her burst works the same way as dmg sharing

again if you wont take my word take Antillar's

search it up he once explained it

[unborn glacier]

i serached discord

he only mentioned centi once in this entirer server

[leaden wren]

#questioning-centre message

read from here

#questioning-centre message

[warped mural]

that's for poli right?

[leaden wren]

ye but centi's shield works the same way

[unborn glacier]

thats for poli though

[warped mural]

centi doesn't have dmg sharing capabilitiess I thought

[unborn glacier]

antillar didnt say centi has the same mechanics/testing

[leaden wren]

poli's burst description also doesn't have dmg sharing on its description

[warped mural]

or is the translation just bad

[unborn glacier]

anyways

save time

[leaden wren]

it proves the point

[warped mural]

uh

no?

[unborn glacier]

@vapid geode ei

[warped mural]

poli's dmg sharing is her s2

[leaden wren]

fine do your own testing

[warped mural]

not her burst

[leaden wren]

exactly

so why does her burst share dmg?

you can wait out her dmg sharing passive

and do the testing

[unborn glacier]

does centi have the same shield damage sharing as poli from your testing?

[leaden wren]

and her shield would still share dmg

[warped mural]

if taht's the case, I don't know

but centi's definitely doesn't say dmg sharing

[leaden wren]

it literally dont even say dmg sharing on her burst

so why does it share the dmg?

[warped mural]

so if "Affects all allies" = dmg sharing ???

if her burst shares dmg even when her s2 is on cd then idk

[leaden wren]

?

cent also affects all allies

[warped mural]

this

[leaden wren]

no because the shield works the same way

[warped mural]

if you say so

[leaden wren]

i dont know what to say to prove it

but just test it yourself

[warped mural]

just confirming

that when you say poli's shield shares dmg, that's when her s2 isn't active

cos her s2 is meant to share dmg

[leaden wren]

yes it shares dmg even if S2 isnt active

[warped mural]

then ye idk

dodgy translation

[leaden wren]

because thats how her shield is supposed to work

[warped mural]

then centi's also probably works the same way cos "affects all allies"

[leaden wren]

exactly

which is why I brought up poli

because they have the same mech

affect all allies, shields

[warped mural]

you do need to clarify that her s2 is not active

[leaden wren]

has health only on the buffer IE Centi/poli

[warped mural]

because centi doesn't have a similar skill in that aspect

[leaden wren]

here

guess I worded it wrong

[warped mural]

also, the dmg sharing may be bugged

we'll have to see whether that's how shiftup intended it to work

does it work the same way in cn?

[leaden wren]

its suppose to work like how peira works in e7

only the person who casted the shield gets the shield

but they take dmg for other units

[warped mural]

ye, nah I get that

[leaden wren]

if anything its just shitty translation

the usual

[warped mural]

just wondering whether it's a bug or intentional

either way those 2 char are really strong rn

but centi>poli cos poli 40s imo

[leaden wren]

yes, centi trivilizes suicide bomber

I cleared 15-12 a suicide bomber mission with over 14k power deficit

[warped mural]

ye, centi abuse is real

[leaden wren]

you dont even need to upgrade the shield

since the point is just to take the 1 hit for threshold

[warped mural]

yup

it's not that big of a difference anyways in all honesty at that lvl

the hit is always going to overkill the shield

[whole fox]

the centi shield if the hp is 50hp and the suicide bomber is suppose to do 1million dmg

it just kill the 50hp shield and it doesnt bleedover

[warped mural]

yep

[leaden wren]

yes

[warped mural]

it can be 1hp shield and it won't bleedover

[unborn glacier]

its so hard to test centi

[leaden wren]

75 @still drift

[unborn glacier]

eithether the damage is too low

or damage too high

to see if shield is absorbing on everyone

but, my testing slighly indicates it does "share" for some reason

[leaden wren]

^

[eternal heath]

to clarify with an example, does that mean if 2 suicide bombers jump at the team, the first one can hit anyone, and centi shield will prevent them from dying, shield broke, but the second suicide bomber will do damage? @leaden wren

[leaden wren]

if at the same time weirdly they dont for some reason assuming its an outter shield

[eternal heath]

[leaden wren]

but I've had cases where

projectiles dont even deal dmg also

[eternal heath]

what a jank game

[vapid geode]

What's up?

Okay, read the discussion. Yeah, testing Centi shield is pain in the ass because it lasts so short and has low value.

But she doesn't have damage sharing in either ENG or JPN translations, so if it does damage share it's another damn bug.

[leaden wren]

So centi's is bugged?

Guess use her for suicide asap before they fix if it is

[unborn glacier]

ill reiterate

[leaden wren]

Kinda weird though since poli and cent has exactly the same text

[unborn glacier]

i couldnt get it to share "obviously"

so it might not actually share

though i do see my team taking less damage

but it may or may not be related to the shield

[willow pecan]

tfw high iq testing taking place in here and I'm just bug abusing to scrape by T7 gear threshold

[vapid geode]

Yeah, it could be just visual stuff

It's hard to test it

but I can add it to the list

[unborn glacier]

im not confident it really works like poli

it you want to add stuff

add the other stuff we found in research findings

[leaden wren]

In my opinion it's the exact same but hey that's my opinion

[vapid geode]

Oh, I meant to the list of stuff I will test

[leaden wren]

Since poli shield also works against suicide

[vapid geode]

not bug list

[unborn glacier]

then yes, please test

also

i need another big big more indepth help in testing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cZT2PR7nNSh_lAlVJHVCGlrGLmiBREcYnvK-RHROM2Q/edit#gid=0

[eternal heath]

if this game gave me more units id contribute more to it

[ocean radish]

oh yeah @unborn glacier what do i need to test vesti burst charge?

[unborn glacier]

test either what i dont have or retest the old ones without number ranges

[eternal heath]

granted, this is on the maincord, so take it with the entire ocean's worth of salt

[leaden wren]

zero% I would say

its not detectable in that sense

[unborn glacier]

same

[plush gazelle]

main cord is so fucking braindead

i can't believe this game has white knights

like actually how low are your standards

[eternal heath]

they probably just want to game to survive long enough until their waifus come out

[plush gazelle]

i hope they r getting paid

if they aren't paid theyre actually pathetic

[willow pecan]

that is strange as fuck. I double glitched S for at least 4 days of rewards in a row now, no bans.

[trail falcon]

I help my friends do the glitch, and I know friends who do the same and none of us got banned

[willow pecan]

likely the guy wasn't owning up to some other shit he may have been doing

[vocal vale]

hmm using gull. didnt get me easier to bug
nor phase 3 of GD either

I am using burst to help out as well maybe thats y

[whole fox]

maybe hs bug is um...

max damage hit

LOL

[rare shell]

hi guys! I've made simple guide to team comp building based on their archetypes, it's still a WIP and something that I compiled just browsing the wiki. I'll send my thoughts (and even yours as I don't have all the characters and resources to try all them out) after awhile, its getting late here sadly

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J1JPGG-zzRJ2N5w35nmPUeVtnbDOxhGqfOR5IxIh_Ak/edit?usp=sharing

it's not the prettiest guide so please bear with me 😅

[atomic gyro]

Yoooo might want to drag the regulars in #pve-team-building to help contribute

They'd love this

[pearl parcel]

Let's let him finish the guide or we can help him with it

and post it there later

[atomic gyro]

Yeah

[pearl parcel]

every guide and infos is welcomed

[atomic gyro]

so they don't have to make teams for people any more, but have them point to the pins like we do

[rare shell]

you guys can send me DMs with your thoughts and i can probably compile them for later

in general I think I have a basic idea of what to run during certain types of scenarios

the swapping is just the hard part lol

[atomic gyro]

Might want to add unit rarity as well? Since I see you're adding N, and SR in there too

[rare shell]

I'm thinking of how to add rarities without blinding people or adding more texts

[atomic gyro]

Just create another fixed sized column to the left, then conditional formatting?

[rare shell]

sure sure let me fix it up tomorrow!

[atomic gyro]

Also might want to include some kind of tier list for each respective column as well, since people are just going to come back instantly and ask I see the comp, but who's the best in this comp

[rare shell]

at some point yeah but that takes some min maxing

[atomic gyro]

We have #1042458757843656774 for a reason

[rare shell]

thank god

[hollow vector]

oh my god thank you for this

this might be a little more work, but you can transfer all this info into a sheets, since most of the writing here is already in tables

[rare shell]

is sheets good for multiple paragraphs? :0

[trail falcon]

you can reference this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987833259129995284/1042858050224144505/unknown.png

[rare shell]

might still add some findings

[hollow vector]

it can, theres a way to increase the size of a specific cell and include multiple pages so you can have one sheet dedicated to paragraphs and another for data all in one document

[atomic gyro]

@still drift

[hollow vector]

a good example is this guide https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BAFade9trKMuuDptdQmX8YmhL-1eJi3HHYYhQZ4epRA/edit#gid=0

[rare shell]

i saw this but i feel like it's still gonna get updated so i made one based on just the archetypes regardless of tiers + the tierlist has bugs for its criteria

[rare shell]

oh damn thank you, will definitely need helpers for this one

[hollow vector]

i can help format, i'd just need some time cause low key running on 4 hours of sleep and awake for nearly 20 hours rn LUL

[trail falcon]

I wouldn't recommend categorizing shield/def in the same category personally, because def increase isn't significant while the reason why shields are strong in this game it is because similar to cover; as long as there is 1 HP remaining on the shield it can tank infinite dmg once

[hollow vector]

and school in an hour

[rare shell]

yeah sure just send me your email!

same goes for everyone who wants to contribute 😄

[rare shell]

noted!

[still drift]

Can you just confirm with me your Tactics Academy progression?

[atomic gyro]

Maxed

I'll post just the wipeout / 24h / outpost level / academy good?

[still drift]

Nah, its good, just needed to confirm it because I probably did a typo

[atomic gyro]

Gimme 5 minutes, just got to outpost 53

[still drift]

I'm at 53 myself, all good.

[atomic gyro]

Ah alright

[still drift]

@atomic gyro

[atomic gyro]

sup

[still drift]

I didnt record 53

[atomic gyro]

LMAO

[still drift]

[rare shell]

updated:
-DEF and Shields split + Cover

• attack-based changed into Attack Archetypes
• added Offensive Buffs section
• defense section changed to Damage Mitigation

[plush gazelle]

do u still need the growth ranking increase from limit breaking? @still drift

[lone stream]

Rayel do you need lv 52 and 53?

[still drift]

Not for limit breaking anymore, but for Skill Level 6+ and Burst Lvl 6+.

[plush gazelle]

👍

then i’ll just do my thing

[still drift]

Nope, 52 and 53 is done on the sheets.
Although if there exists 51, it would be pretty nice, since I forgot to record it myself

[lone stream]

Well this help?

or do you need the actual outpost listing?

[plush gazelle]

51?

let me check

i just got to 52 like 1 hour ago

[still drift]

OMG just discovered something that may have seemed obvious

You can scroll away from your characters in the map.

AND YOU CAN LONG PRESS AN ENEMY TO SEE THE STAGE DATA

So once I get to a new chapter, I can just do all the Data Entry in one go instead of by each stage

[whole fox]

well.. thats how i send u the entire chapter 13 data doe

u didnt ask me how tf i got it lmao i though u knew

[still drift]

I only noticed it while I was doing Data Entry for it today

I was like wtf the characters arent on screen

I would've been super motivated to do the earlier chapters and not miss one

[warped mural]

[willow pecan]

I did the third phase bug today, got to 17m with 0 shotguns. The timing is the exact same as first and second phase.

As small X shadow spawns, have "full burst" on screen.

[unborn glacier]

Cap for level 40

[still drift]

I can't seem to wrap my head around how the Manufacturer's Points are getting calculated.
I'm only limited to seeing what is available to me on my accounts.
Every SSR + SSR LB = +300
Every SR + SR LB = +50

Skill + Burst Lv needs to be summed up using their according values:
Lv2 : 5
Lv3 : 5
Lv4 : 5
Lv5 : 15
Unconfirmed :
Recycling Level = +1?
Every R Unit = +1?

Levels = Base Lv + Synchro Level Boosts

But my general guess is :
There is some Recycling level for Attackers/Defenders/Supporters or Manufacturers that provides more than +1 manufacturers level.

Please let me know if you can figure out a better/accurate formula.

Also, points for up to Skill/Burst Lv5 are provided, but further than that needs to be noted.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxz0qN5fYjxcn7g4SsKXqT6XOnTv-HqvyYX3Cx1I3lo/edit#gid=0

If you have some spare time to look over this, please do.

[willow pecan]

@eager ermine I'm using manual method, so I yeet out burst 1 and 2 early, wait for circle to turn to small X then burst 3.

1/1 success rate 🤔

[eager ermine]

Yeah I’ll try that out

I tried the mouse drawing circles method but can’t replicate it

I will update if it works

[eager ermine]

Ok I gave up trying for today

[eternal heath]

also might be worth noting in your guide for later is burst charge times, you can reference allen's findings (within the pins here)

a full team of slow charging burst might lose out on few instances of burst which is plenty of damage

[rare shell]

noted thanks

[pearl parcel]

Hey guys in a few days I will rework the FAQ again with new questions and answers and I also want to post your guides that will help people a lot

If someone can please make a list with the possible questions that were common in the questioning centre

I would be very happy

[pearl parcel]

Man glad to be ignored

[atomic gyro]

bro I'm still at work

Also the research dungeon is a smaller subset of our chat

[pearl parcel]

not now mf smh.... I was waiting for a confirmation at least

[hollow vector]

can confirm that i won't list common questions

[eager ermine]

I might write up a guide on resource management and tips on clearing daily content.

(emphasis on the word "might".)

[tall fern]

[willow pecan]

number of projectiles really seem to matter quite a bit for GD bug. I swapped volume to neon today, couldn't get the bug consistent through phase 2 after 20 tries.

[eager ermine]

There's so many variables and what matters is getting one or two Key animation frames to bug out so it's never consistent

I am using the pressing Esc on emulator method, I don't even need to limit it to 10 fps anymore

God I did stage 9 finally

[unborn glacier]

Overhaul faq or just more faq questions to be answered?

[eager ermine]

https://youtu.be/FqwcKsLDrVY

this is the run, dunno it has any value though

[willow pecan]

ok wtf that looks a lot easier than what I have to do

gonna try it on mobile version I guess thanks Sabi

[eager ermine]

I did it on emulator though

by pressing ESC and holding it, it rapidly pauses and unpauses until it has like 4fps

[willow pecan]

I'll see if pause button can work on mobile, that's about the only thing I can try

aside from that it's back to practising 1 frame timing

[eager ermine]

Mobile glitching is like dark souls mode

[vocal vale]

its awful for me to do it tho..

doing the GD bug now

[vocal vale]

so just... use Esc?

[eager ermine]

That’s what I did in the video

Again, there’s no consistent methods, so you have to try

[vocal vale]

notice the timining as well

care to explain?

[eager ermine]

Ngl I tried a lot of different timings but still no consistent one

That stage 9 clear took me an hour

A theory is do it BEFORE the second circle shows up

[vocal vale]

1 hour...

so my stage 9 that time prob was luck as well

[eager ermine]

I’d say if you don’t have much free time just try an hour for a day

[vocal vale]

my mental cant

[eager ermine]

If you don’t get it just take the stage 7 award and leave

[vocal vale]

lets go

[eager ermine]

We should be using our time on something else anyway, right

[vocal vale]

stage 2 1 2 (wtf burst+fps still didnt work) 2 1

bloody hell

stage 2 is just fucked

sometiems the esc is just so fast that it may seems like it didnt stutter fps too much should I be worry

I just cant get through phase 2 most of the time

does hitting red circle affect success rate

[eager ermine]

No

But if you stop the boss from doing the attack you gotta glitch the following attack

[willow pecan]

if you can reliably stop his red circles you don't need the glitch

[vocal vale]

kinda think it does
BUT FUCK
I BUGGED PHASE 2 BUT LITER DIED
the game hates me man

[eager ermine]

Yeah just play normally LOL

[vocal vale]

no

why play normally when the game is a bug itself

[eager ermine]

Because we can’t replicate the bug sometimes?

jk lol

[vocal vale]

they not only fail the game
they also fail a bug
lol

[eager ermine]

||But you’re the one failed the bugging /s||

[vocal vale]

[pearl parcel]

more faq questions
I might make a google doc

[eternal heath]

"do we get full refund on materials for nikke level reset" yes

[pearl parcel]

Yes

[unborn glacier]

Okay, I'll try to draft something once I'm not swamped with work

[pearl parcel]

👌

[eternal heath]

welcome back we thought you went to neural cloud

[unborn glacier]

im still at neural cloud XD

just that im stuck at 13-12

so not much to do

ohh GD bug will be fixed next month

[willow pecan]

last few weeks to get full t7 gear without shotguns

[unborn glacier]

getting t7 now with shotguns

[willow pecan]

I'm at 43k cp, still can't break red circles. 0 shotgun ssr

[unborn glacier]

ouch

[tall fern]

grave digger w/ no shotgun team

[leaden wren]

see

centi's shield works exactly like polis

[warped mural]

Wording got fixed

It's very clear rn

[pearl parcel]

Hey guys I had a talk with someone about making a channel for you

if you are interested in like experimenting on min-maxing

DMG calculation

creating guides

What do you guys say?

[atomic gyro]

My thread is growing up

[pearl parcel]

I am not joking this is legit

[warped mural]

Would love to have one

[pearl parcel]

Like I need confirmation and if you guys really want this and can handle numbers

[atomic gyro]

I would do a here ping, but not sure if it'll ping entire server or just thread

[pearl parcel]

it will ping the entire server

[warped mural]

[whole fox]

well it would be nice

[atomic gyro]

Thought so

[whole fox]

but i think we dont want it to be a acutal channel cuz

people come in and ruin it then rip

ask this ask that ask this ask that

[warped mural]

Lollll

[pearl parcel]

You guys are mods

[warped mural]

That is true

[atomic gyro]

question-center-2

[pearl parcel]

damn I need to think about how to not happen

[whole fox]

as much as we are mods, we cant really control hoopla people

[pearl parcel]

ping me and I delete them from existence

[whole fox]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-hoopla-excited-excitement-gif-5059277

[warped mural]

Some ppl are special 👀

[whole fox]

expect throwing a brick at their face to shut up

[pearl parcel]

I can throw the entire Universe at them and igaf tbh

[whole fox]

alex following the roots of thanos

[pearl parcel]

I am Thanos

[atomic gyro]

Alex u have more patience than me

[whole fox]

hmm

its ur choice deliagwath

u made this channel

if u think we can convert this thread to a proper channel is good

[atomic gyro]

i did not participate as much as like allen and rayel tho

[whole fox]

im just assisting rayel as much as i can

[atomic gyro]

I manage, but I did not participate

[pearl parcel]

[atomic gyro]

The question is

Even if we turn it into a channel

How can we make it more organized

[whole fox]

majority of this is filled up by me and redd soo

[pearl parcel]

actually lemme add the person here and talk what he had in mind

[whole fox]

custard?

[pearl parcel]

No

[whole fox]

Unless u make a main channel then thread per discussion

but i think thats too much of a hasle

i think now it's fine doe

since we just dump data here

and rayels key it in

hahahaha

[atomic gyro]

Either that or a forum and have posts for each type of research

so it's much more organized

[whole fox]

i prefer just throw it all at 1 place and ping rayel hey yo here have fun

[atomic gyro]

LOL

[whole fox]

like what we have now

[atomic gyro]

Problem is if rayel leaves then we gg

[whole fox]

yea

[pearl parcel]

@sweet ocean

Can you explain to this fellow researchers

[atomic gyro]

Which is why we'd need some more organization so that it works in the long term

[sweet ocean]

Hey

[whole fox]

welcome

[atomic gyro]

Sup

[whole fox]

tire

aka ferrari peek stragery

[atomic gyro]

wat

[pearl parcel]

Hey guys this cool guy basically came to me with a great idea

[atomic gyro]

we put a 5m slow mode?

[pearl parcel]

and I want you guys to talk with him about what he has in mind too

[whole fox]

firstly what he has in mind?

[sweet ocean]

Ok so first things first, GET this section out to a place that's more visible lmao
no one's going to a thread that's hidden by default

[whole fox]

[pearl parcel]

just listen to him and I want to see if you guys like it or not

[atomic gyro]

You say that, I can't make a channel

[pearl parcel]

nobody is forcing anything on you, not him either

[whole fox]

yea so..

lets hear the man out

[atomic gyro]

ye

lay it on us

B R I N G I T O N

[whole fox]

no harm saying we can take it

[atomic gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-shia-la-beouf-flame-gif-4445204

[whole fox]

expect deliagwath

he shatter easily

[atomic gyro]

;-;

i will

mute u

in a trigger happy fashion more than alex

[sweet ocean]

Alright so, I think that we should have a dedicated theorycrafting channel/section.
If a gacha exists there is bound to be a group of min-maxxers in it.
I'm gonna show you an example of what can be achieved.

[whole fox]

sure

[atomic gyro]

[sweet ocean]

I see that you guys already have some sheets done, so this will be easier to swallow.

This very crude pic shows numbers and estimations based on personal researches from the guy that I found this from.
Sadly I never got his concrete maths or how he did it.

A good TC section should be able to produce things like these in a much presentable form and in a much quicker timeframe.
What we NEED right now for example is concrete base normal attack DPS of all archetypes.
IE: With assumptions (no skills involved and no reloads, only 1 clip)
Attacker MG does 32k Normal Attack DPS
Supporter SMG does 22k Normal Attack DPS
Imagine if we have something like this but in a more presentable form and with more standard assumptions instead (no skills BUT reloads are accounted for, 3 clips). WITH footages and frame counting plus math sheets to back it up.

Another thing.

These are example TC channels of one of the servers I mentioned.
Basically every time new units get teased they open up a dedicated TC section for them.
By the time they're officially released, whoever follows it extensively will very much know what he's getting into.
assuming the devs don't make any last-minute changes.
I don't need you guys to do this, it's just a throwaway suggestion because maintaining them is like a dozen of headaches. But maybe a random can spot something that the testers miss.

Basically: open up a theorycrafting section/channel, appoint some mods that actually know their ways around numbers.
Maybe get some of the Prydwen guys to back you up and very importantly, verify the findings, call it an investment.

[whole fox]

i mean theorycrafting is a very good idea and would surely help

[atomic gyro]

Do we still have prydwen backup after the rage over laplace though?

[sweet ocean]

And another thing?
This will give a big edge over the official server itself.

Because it doesn't have a dedicated TC section, only general help.

[whole fox]

we do

its call Antillar and Koj

[atomic gyro]

[whole fox]

if we can support them with theory crafting

it give them a reason to keep trying something brand new

[sweet ocean]

YES

[whole fox]

rather than test the same shit over n over n over n over n over again

[atomic gyro]

How does your server handle locking the channels though, how do you manage access

[sweet ocean]

But we can't do it alone, that's why we need to coax out wild min-maxxers

[atomic gyro]

I see they're locked

[whole fox]

Well i can see it as a layer system : Start of at Teambuilding then slowly to teambuilding crafting and Teambuilding results

[sweet ocean]

If you're asking about that, they lock it after a while (2-3 weeks after official release, about 1-2 weeks more before locking/purging)

[atomic gyro]

Oh so it's public access?

[sweet ocean]

Any findings, good or bad, will be published in a public library channel.

[whole fox]

however Bubba we kinda have issue with this theorycrafting with test server

its call NDA

[sweet ocean]

Damn.

[atomic gyro]

gg

[whole fox]

as much as i tried to ask koj on testing stuff

all my result i got back is NDA

if we test it in Live server sure that will work

but testing in test server will be the NDA issue

[sweet ocean]

Yep, everything in the live server will be gravy.

[pearl parcel]

Oh yeah I forgot to tell Bubba about that....

NDA

[sweet ocean]

Testing in the test server is more sketch, I understand that.

[atomic gyro]

oh shit alex break NDA

time to fuck him up

[sweet ocean]

But live server testing is still on the table, so we still have a drive here.

[whole fox]

yes however live server result isnt that constant rather an average cuz of many varible factors on skill level not able to reset etc etc and recycling center stuff

[sweet ocean]

We can establish a "standard".

[whole fox]

i mean it can be done

just there is a going to be alot of varible

[atomic gyro]

Just that every data report has to be backed up with all the information for each player

to normalize results

[whole fox]

not a concreet number but more of an avergae point

[atomic gyro]

Just like how rayel asks academy progression for the table

[sweet ocean]

For example: one server I have use a set of standards for artifacts (the main set of rngs grinding here, and the biggest factor of RNG), and almost all findings and sheets over there obey said standards

For example, 5/5/5 and tier 9 artifacts

for this game

We can actually kickstart a grassroot numbercrunching community and Prydwen gets an actual third-party(ish) source of outside help, leading to overall higher quality findings.

For other variables? Like core hits percentage and crits? Easy enough to figure out the average

We have the tools

Now we just need to make some templates

and base numbers to use from.

[whole fox]

i mean we could

2nd would be people's commitment

[sweet ocean]

Yep.

[whole fox]

as much as i want to help im still suffering and drowning in assignment

[sweet ocean]

Again, we just need to promote and leave this section in an actual public place that people can see.

[whole fox]

but its definally possibe to work

[warped mural]

I personally would love to have such channel, since I am mainly most active in team building and it's easier to give ppl advice with solid numbers

[whole fox]

yup

[sweet ocean]

I assure you, if you guys can make this work this server will blow up

Seens it with my eyes 2-3 times.

[whole fox]

arite alex

time for u to do more work

[atomic gyro]

let's draw up a doc

to structure and how the research should proceed

[whole fox]

yup

[atomic gyro]

channels, threads, rules

[whole fox]

anways i really need to back to work

[atomic gyro]

then research, standards, publishing

[sweet ocean]

[atomic gyro]

screw work

[sweet ocean]

I'll support ya guys with how the numbercrunchers on my side mostly do work on their end

[atomic gyro]

LMAO

[sweet ocean]

just DM whenever stuffs come up

actually don't dm, just @ me

[whole fox]

yes

acutal work

and i have an overdue work i still havent finish

[atomic gyro]

kek

[whole fox]

cuz i run into simulation error n i need to refix

and also a game design i create a board game and play test that shit

so its rather busy for me

i wanna surely help out but i have assignment to clear first

[atomic gyro]

we no rush

finish your assignment

[whole fox]

after that is done i can help to crunch and do acutal testing and give u results

[atomic gyro]

I'll make a google doc for what we should do forwards from now on

[whole fox]

i will surely open up my acc for ya to do theory crafting n test

then i will give result and stuff

so ur can compare

like LB0 Scarlet vs LB2 Scarlet dmg diff etc etc

[atomic gyro]

am talking infrastructure rn, infrastructure first then research shit after

[whole fox]

well

sadly i cannot help to help on infrastructure atm

i need to work

bye

[atomic gyro]

ye

[whole fox]

[atomic gyro]

dw

i will drag u

tmr

[whole fox]

its thanksgiving tm

thats how u thanks give me?!

[atomic gyro]

yes

i give u more work

since u wanna work so much

[whole fox]

i work cuz i need good grade bro

[pearl parcel]

damn it was actually a good idea to bring Bubba here

Man I am so glad he appeared in the nikke chat

[sweet ocean]

Oh yeah, something else important.
If you guys are going to establish a "standard", make it so that it's achievable by F2ps.
That's why I suggested 5/5/5, lvl 9 artifacts with no manufacturer bonus. Because it has minimal to no RNGs involved and it doesn't require much to be set up. It will be the "floor".

Once the floor is done, we can work higher. Like 7/7/7 with overload equipments and no substats accounted for.

[pearl parcel]

If people will work on the structure for the channel and some rules I can do additional rules too

I will try to make it as appealing as possible

[atomic gyro]

Shit I made my doc in my work account

[unborn glacier]

@pearl parcel
any possiblility we can upgrade the faq to an ask bot?

[pearl parcel]

I need to talk with Custard on that

if it's possible

like it's more work for him as I can't handle embeds too well tbh

[unborn glacier]

okay, cause i think a wall of text faq, might be less effective in getting it people to read

[pearl parcel]

I've been thinking about that in the long run for 2 months

[unborn glacier]

especially as it grows bigger.. plus it should help cutdown on repeating question better in question center

[pearl parcel]

Also if you guys know a good bot for implementing questions

[median geode]

Thanks!

[pearl parcel]

I am all ears

[atomic gyro]

LOL

[pearl parcel]

NOT NOW GISELLE

[unborn glacier]

im not very good with bots..
but google search.. i found this that doesnt look crippled

https://top.gg/bot/1022778476949942312

or require you to login to some 3 party site

[pearl parcel]

I will see what I can do

[unborn glacier]

laplace burst charge speed

if anyonne has time to test and verify my results

i estimate it at 45-60 seconds

[rare shell]

gonna update the Team Building document by the end of the week because I'm busy handling post-graduation stuff but I'll be explaining attack archetype mechanics and what the characters do for their team in the comp

[fair wedge]

So when using Rupee's burst I have noticed that when having a nikke with a charge weapon (sniper,rpg) her burst messes up and snaps to herself dealing damage to herself.
I have had this happen to me on wifi,mobile data,mobile, and emulated. My mobile phone is a samsung galaxy note 9. I am on global. This has happened before and after the laplace patch. I have video in #questioning-centre . I cannot submit a form since i do not have access to my pc for a bit. If anyone else with rupee could try to replicate this that would be appreciated.

Mb i forgot to mention it has occured on auto and manual. Less so on auto due to how auto tends to switch to rupee when it uses the burst.

[fair wedge]

This bug may also apply to other burst of the like such as anis.

[willow pecan]

that might explain why sometimes my helm just randomly dies in simulation

🤔

out of nowhere, should be an easy finish, she bursts and then by end screen she's dead

??

[rare shell]

nikkes can k word themselves???

[eternal heath]

i cant tell if you meant to ask this on #lore-archive / #nikke-spoiler-chat

or you're asking about the bug

[rare shell]

the bug lol

[unborn glacier]

union test iron team
all dps (rupee + laplace + maxwell)
are level 1 skill and no gear

observation:
a. maxwell is noted to have some extra variables (she cast burst less often than laplace), has bonus due having lots of enemies (skill related) and she is also a buffer, instead of pure dps
b. rupee mildly inflated cause cause she gets to cast her burst every time
c. laplace self buff not even fully taken advantage off in shooting range

conclusion:
rupee is not a role (burst 2) fair comparison to laplace, but its clear laplace does good solo damage, like rupee
maxwell, loses out raw dps to laplace, but seems "balanced" as maxwell shines better in story/multiple on screen enemies and should be paired with another dps
vs
laplace who is boss oriented

@eternal heath i could use some snow white data/observation once you have time

[eternal heath]

im still limit testing with interception S

i wasted 1 run cause i forgot to pause

[unborn glacier]

lol

[eternal heath]

here

here is what im limit testing with

i think its possible to clear

i just need to git gud

have made it to p3 and can break circles

[unborn glacier]

nice

ill do a control run with my sg now

[willow pecan]

how are you breaking circles

piloting laplace?

privaty?

surely you don't have burst for every set of circles

how does that work?

[eternal heath]

once i can clear

ill let you know

[unborn glacier]

@eternal heath not sure if you hav ethe same problem, but the cross hair move abnormaly when i use manually after a burst

[eternal heath]

not sure

ok fuck it

im calling it quits for now

i am filing that team under

"possible but im not good enough"

shotgun team is still a lot easier and b etter

there's my answer to you @unborn glacier

[eternal heath]

mostly, it is laplace

but on occasion for some reason i can do plenty of damage to circles and break (still in full burst just not laplace s3)

its probably just rng procs from rapi/laplace rocket hitting just nice

im not sure

wow my arm hurts

pita

[willow pecan]

thanks Psi

hmmmm

that means I should be able to do the same

imma try tomorrow

time to bench helm

[unborn glacier]

so far from not very deep testing, laplace does good very good upfront damage (which is what you need for red circles)

[eternal heath]

i felt that it was super inconsistent

regularly at p2 i would pop the skill

and it just felt rng whether i could break all 3 circles or not

with laplace

it wasnt consistent at all

i hads to retry a lot

unlike shotguns

right

test snow white

[unborn glacier]

that part i agree

since i have a skill issue

i dont pop the red circle often 😂

[eternal heath]

ill run this then swap sw out for laplace

[unborn glacier]

i noticed that im able to reduce a larger chunk of the bosses phase 2 life before he does his 1st phase 2 attack

[eternal heath]

her normal rockets does a decent amount of damage if anything

[eternal heath]

do you think

her laser weapon has an effective range

we cant tell cause of the crosshair turn yellow on full burst

[unborn glacier]

i will try this

[unborn glacier]

not sure, but by default rl no effective range lol

so would be good to have

[eternal heath]

did two runs with sw but i forgot to screenshot the first one like an idiot
10.7m

12m

there's no point manualling because i took novel out

[unborn glacier]

looks good

[eternal heath]

both are gearless and cubeless

only diff is sw has 10bond and laplace is only 3bond

[unborn glacier]

i think dolla swap out with rupee or some other attack buffer will much better

[eternal heath]

I uh, dont have rupee

[unborn glacier]

ohh okay XD

[eternal heath]

for what its worth i recorded a 2nd snow white run
11.3m

gonna do a second lap run too

i estimate laplace variance is gonna be very small

but snow white is big

cause if she crits her burst thats a big dmg difference

so laplace is a consistent dps bosser

[unborn glacier]

which team was easier to red circle?

[eternal heath]

snow white is roll of the dice

this is union dmg tests

there's no red circle

[unborn glacier]

ahh lol

[eternal heath]

but even without doing it i can tell you laplace would be easier to red circle

because snow white only can s3 one thing

laplace at least can swap to another part during

(still shit though)

wew, lap doing 12.6m

higher than snow white

guess ill have to give her props she's actually stronger than sw

[unborn glacier]

so that puts her above snow white?
who roughly her direct role equivalent, minus the aoe?

[eternal heath]

yeah...

thank god redd quit

[willow pecan]

Laplace above snow white

Let's keep it to ourselves, redd doesn't have to see this

[unborn glacier]

give some data or info, or go to a different thread

@eternal heath ive noticed on emulator, laplace beam cause some heavy load, and can make it hard to target due to occasional lag

[eternal heath]

oh does it not lag on phone?

[unborn glacier]

i havent tried phone yet XD

[unborn glacier]

@eternal heath SG slighly better than laplace at melting parts

that 5 second burst is too short

[eternal heath]

yeah id say laplace is good for breaking parts but the duration is a bummer

so it actually "isnt" that good

instead of using her burst for circle breaking id just see it as pure dps

feel like she kind of needs rupee to keep uptime on the s1

its kind of shit to have to recharge it every time

[leaden wren]

yall say this until burst is fixed

and snow white becomes the best unit in the game

not that I would care at that point

[eternal heath]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-worried-scared-pet-gif-17394665

he saw it

[unborn glacier]

we care and you care 🙂

[eager ermine]

we care and you care 🙂

[warped mural]

we care and you care 🙂

[atomic gyro]

Before and after @calm osprey

Although I didn't get the visual bug, maybe it's because I only quick battled only once?

[calm osprey]

hmm, yeah my quick battles showed my first run both times

first run^

was taken 3rd time

But I did get 1 purple so I’m guessing it was just a visual bug. I’m gonna check again tomorrow and see what I get @atomic gyro

[molten robin]

my third run yesterday showed identical to my 2nd, but I got a new manufacturer T7 I def didnt get before so it was visual

but a union member of mine reports having instances of not just visual but actually getting nothing

[eager ermine]

Your first run and second run will display properly, the third run will show results from the second run

It’s a visual bug so you still receive the rewards regardless

[molten robin]

? did you not read what I posted at all?

lol

[eager ermine]

Yeah i didnt fuck

Sorry

[molten robin]

np

[eager ermine]

If we really want to make sure we have to write down the numbers of current equipment every run then

[molten robin]

he says he's screenshotted his inv before and after and seen instances of no changes

[eager ermine]

Did he restart the game?

[molten robin]

unsure

[wintry ravine]

each managed one burst with the same sups before team was wiped in a hard mode regular stage

[whole fox]

okay imma stop u here real quick

1 gear is not the same so it's not a fair compairsion

[wintry ravine]

they have like the same atk

and cp

[whole fox]

no its still different

[wintry ravine]

cp of both teams is identical

[whole fox]

Look carefully

if u want the best fair result really

no gear no cube

[wintry ravine]

dude that's like what % of diff

[whole fox]

thats a the most fair result u can do

[wintry ravine]

lmao

do you work for prydwen or something lol

[whole fox]

plus i need to take an account of laplace is LB1 too so yea

i dont work for prydwen and i been bashing on prydwen tier list for awhile now sir

but i do fair testing

[wintry ravine]

you really think if the atk was like what 50 different it would change result

[whole fox]

yes i do cuz stats scales sir

[wintry ravine]

bruh I don't know what to say

[whole fox]

cuz ur comparing someone who have a t7 gear vs a t6 gear

[plush gazelle]

scarlet gives herself attack buffs. attack stat on scarlet is more valuable than attack stat on laplace.

[whole fox]

if u had both on the same gear u will get a fair result

[wintry ravine]

the point I'm showing is they do very similar damage even on regular stages which is simply true

[whole fox]

rather than getting a varible in gear diff, i rather u make it a constant rather than make varible

[plush gazelle]

i think same attack is more fair. it’s not possible to have fair result when laplace is alr LB1

[whole fox]

we can averge down like 100k dmg at least

[wintry ravine]

bro wtf

[whole fox]

im just pointing things out but still its something im gonna give it a test too myself too

[wintry ravine]

laplace has 3% more attack from stats and you telling me you'd take 100k off the laplace damage results

[whole fox]

having the same atk stat and stuff

[wintry ravine]

it's a 3% difference it's within rng bounds, it makes no significant diff in the results

[plush gazelle]

the game’s damage formula is broken. nothing makes sense.

crit doesn’t work as it should, and attack is way too valuable

[wintry ravine]

the two teams cp is exactly the same

it's just laplace using burst first vs scarlet using burst first in a scenario where I only get one burst off

results nigh identical

[whole fox]

[wintry ravine]

I also did tests vs bosses and laplace is better vs many bosses, her burst is crazy strong

also consider laplace doesn't kill herself and generates burst better than scarlet

[plush gazelle]

i’m not sure i understand why you are so resistant to the idea of making the attack value exactly the same. if you’re so confident that it doesn’t matter, why don’t you just do it and prove NyX wrong?

[whole fox]

wdym im always wrong wtf?

[plush gazelle]

and don’t give me any nonsense about not wanting to waste time. this whole argument is a waste of time.

[plush gazelle]

i didn’t say that

[wintry ravine]

I literally cannot be bothered when the test would clearly result in miniscule differences

[plush gazelle]

then don’t waste your time arguing here

[whole fox]

im always wrong and im always open to learn how different people doing their test and i would rather real data do the talk rather than questioning and word

[plush gazelle]

like literally why are you wasting your time arguing in fucking discord

[wintry ravine]

it's a 3% diff in attack and you acting liek it changes results by 20%

[plush gazelle]

in the 5 mins you’ve spent resisting and challenging this idea, you could’ve tested it 4 times already

[whole fox]

u know what... i gonna make it in the shoot range tes tnow

[wintry ravine]

don't do shotting range test with laplace

[plush gazelle]

if you can make the test as fair as possible, why not just do it.

[whole fox]

then what test u want to do try on?

[wintry ravine]

you need to test in actual stages or bosses

[plush gazelle]

^ this is actually true.

[wintry ravine]

shooting range enimies are spread out doesn't work for rocket users

[plush gazelle]

it’s better to do in real stages

[whole fox]

u mean stages like this?

[plush gazelle]

don’t choose a stage that is beneficial to rocket launcher tho. just choose any stage

[wintry ravine]

choose random stages any you like

test a bunch

[plush gazelle]

this game sucks so we can’t do that

[whole fox]

pick 1 stage

[wintry ravine]

you'll find that scarlet and laplace trade back and forth, some favor laplace some favor scarlet

[whole fox]

both is majorly underpower so

[plush gazelle]

shouldn’t matter i think

just pick one

[whole fox]

and yes im clearing stages within a 10k range power with my team

[plush gazelle]

gib liter

[whole fox]

imma try 15-12

as much as my test is imma just say scarlet will be at a huge bias cuz LB2 vs no LB and Skill 5 vs Skill 1 so just please take that into account

im expecting a 1:3 damage scale so if scarlet cannot Do 1:3 Scale dmg with no cube no gear then.. we r acutally into something soo

no cube no gear scarlet

would u say this is fair?

since ur comparing the Atk Stat right?

i got them as close as i can get

@wintry ravine

or u do want to compare base on power stat?

[wintry ravine]

honestly dude I'm watching a video you can test however you like, you kinda lost me when you claimed a 3% atk diff would make a 100k diff in my results

[eager ermine]

Power stat differ from Nikke to Nikke and there are Nikkes that just have higher CP

So yeah don’t base your tests on that one

[still drift]

https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=34412910&_fp=11
An analysis of the Dice game by the CN folks.

[whole fox]

arite i got it as close as i can

[eager ermine]

TLDR: If you’re unlucky you can fail to get all the rewards

[still drift]

It would be exceptionally unlucky though.

The average is 6280 (rounded up to 157), the 90th percentile is 6760 , the 99th percentile is 7200 , and the maximum is 8360.
Given 7000 Dice, you'd have to be extremely unlucky to reach even the 99th percentile

I do feel bad for the 1% tho.

[eager ermine]

1% to get cucked from the event is still sad

[plush gazelle]

even 1% is too much

it should be impossible for anybody to be cucked by event

[still drift]

We're all gatcha gamers here. I'll take my chances

[eager ermine]

Yes

[whole fox]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1042929307414184028/1045645407889403916/image.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1042929307414184028/1045645654774534225/image.png

[plush gazelle]

scarlet died?

sounds about right

[whole fox]

well no scarlet gear vs geared laplace anyway so

[plush gazelle]

why is N102 on the team tho

[whole fox]

im testing flat atk dmg

and use centi n102 to get burst faster

so at least i wont insta die without getting a chance to burst

and 11k pen too

so i wanted to get the burst fast enough so everyone dont fking die instantly

[plush gazelle]

imo not a fair test unless they both die tgt

i also strongly believe that laplace is generally better the bigger the power gap is

[whole fox]

it's pause at the same time when 1 or die

laplace do have her place i agree doe

[unborn glacier]

i thought my previous testing before already said, laplace was just "okay" for story?

[whole fox]

but we have a man here malding saying laplace > Scarlet

[plush gazelle]

at any rate, the reason why scarlet is so good is not necessarily only because she do a lot of damage

[whole fox]

so thats why i brough him here to do some test

[plush gazelle]

it’s also because her ult is an AOE nuke

[whole fox]

but he got angry at me saying lets average down 100k dmg as a cut off and see or something and he lost his mind so

[plush gazelle]

that prevents u from dying when you’re in a tough spot with multiple enemies

[whole fox]

[unborn glacier]

they are 2 different roles

scarlet is map wide aoe

[plush gazelle]

100k average down is way too abitrary

[unborn glacier]

lapalace is well a beam..

[plush gazelle]

i’m sorry but i have to agree with him that that isn’t a very good test

[whole fox]

i mean its just a test so i could be wrong but idk why if he thinks im wrong he should just say it

[plush gazelle]

yeah exactly

[whole fox]

rather than blow me off and say im stupid go fuck urself and leave when im like yo

what test u want to run n shit

lmao

[plush gazelle]

i will 100% believe that laplace is a boss killing god

[whole fox]

like i said nothing i said is correct nor whatever i theory is correct i rather have real data as proof and stuff

but he just mald over a sentence and fucked off so

[plush gazelle]

but i still take scarlet anyday

her burst is too valuable when you’re in a tight spot

which is very often

stupid game with the 10,000 enemies

[whole fox]

hehe

[unborn glacier]

she has the damage, but for stuff like grade digger and interception s.. she is just decent.. in my humble opinion

[whole fox]

well i can give laplace a try to see how things work out

[plush gazelle]

grave digger no good? i thought she would be fantastic

[whole fox]

grave digger move too much so

[plush gazelle]

depends on how fast the laser tracks i guess

[whole fox]

i dont think laplace can shine there

[unborn glacier]

5 second beam..

[plush gazelle]

lulplace

[whole fox]

in terms of bossing like train or chatterbox yea i think she can shine well there

[unborn glacier]

at best you manual and with leet skills take out 1 bunch of red circles

[whole fox]

but boss like grave or mordernia boss i dont think she can do well on those

[unborn glacier]

her 5 seconds feels, not enough

i test sg team on train also
and with 1 less SG with her in it

she cant beat sg, cause of the 5 seconds

[whole fox]

ehh thats true i wish she can have a longer ult but still

[plush gazelle]

does the game count terrain damage as damage?

[whole fox]

the dev dont want to let a normal unit beat a pilgirm unit so...

handicapped by the dev maybe

[unborn glacier]

thats my conspiracy theory (devs nerfing, non-pilgrims)

[wintry ravine]

hey I'm sorry for malding, I've been arguing with people that have been saying laplace is trash due to prydwens C rating and writeup for way too long over these couple of days

I've already posted those posts I put here and several other tests in #nikke-spice-chat so I feel like I'm retreading the same ground over and over

[whole fox]

like i said i told u nothing i type say or type out is 100% i only trust real data

[wintry ravine]

you'll soon see what I say is true, they trade back and forth from stage to stage dps wise

[whole fox]

i think laplace surely has her place as a main dps but still allen did more testing too then me

[wintry ravine]

but laplace is better on most bosses and she doesn't kill herslef and is better burst generation

[unborn glacier]

2 different roles

[whole fox]

as much as the tier list etc etc, i really think u shouldnt care too much cuz really

the lower she is on the tier list the better it is

cuz means dev wont nerf her

[unborn glacier]

im not even sure why scarlet is being compared

[wintry ravine]

scarlet is considered the best general DPS, I don't know why you say diff roles when people just use scarlet for everything

[whole fox]

why i say that?

cuz Cbt1 Snow white people say OP
Cbt2 snow white got nerf and people now say drake is OP
TT drake got semi nerf and people saying Gully OP

Launch day Gully got nerf like mad

[unborn glacier]

i dont

well i dont have scarlet

[whole fox]

so u really should just take those tier list as a grain of salt really

[unborn glacier]

but i play my units based on the situation

[whole fox]

u should be happy she is placed low on the tier list cuz really she may get buffed

[unborn glacier]

like i have a harran

and i only use her for specific stages only

[wintry ravine]

yeah maybe I should but it just wriles me up when people say incorrect stuff, can't help myself

[whole fox]

like i said here we only accept real data and proper numbers as judgement

if can craft theory and we go set up to out and see what we can do to make it as accurate as we can

[wintry ravine]

like sure maybe I am wrong and scarlet is marginally better (I don't believe this honestly) but there is no universe in which laplace is trash or anywhere near C tier where they had her ranked

[whole fox]

i mean in a more general use yea scarlet is somewhat betterish? but laplace can do more too but sometimes abit effy

the 1 thing i like about the balacing about this game is that everyone on the roster has a catch so yea

[wintry ravine]

if you continue testing I think you'll find laplace is honestly just better than scarlet, but I will leave that to you

[whole fox]

so its okay to really test and build things out cuz there isnt really a meta in this game cuz of how much catch almost everything

[wintry ravine]

scarlet killing herself is no minor thing in tough stages

[whole fox]

i mean

this is good enough for me to be like

[unborn glacier]

1. laplace definetly isnt c tier
2. she is probably tier 1 on the burst 3 tiering (where tier 0 is best)
3. in my limited testing she does great in numbers (high dps), but actual usefulness is slightly lower than what the number tells

[whole fox]

and remeber

scarlet is LB2 and Skill 5 while laplace is only LB0 and Skill 1

and all she need is 1 burst and can do 800k dmg is

cuz within 1 cycle burst scarlet is no where near the 800k dmg soo

[wintry ravine]

If I'm being realistic I think she should just be on whatever tier scarlet is as they fairly closely match each other often enough

[whole fox]

i dont think u want her to be there really

if she is upthere means she will get the chopping block of nerf

trust me on it

[wintry ravine]

most gacha devs don't nerf unless there is hardcore pvp and even then sometimes not

I don't think we will ever see nerfs really

unless something is GIGA broken

[whole fox]

as much it is i rather u dont be too worried about this tier list thingy

[unborn glacier]

1. i dont have scarlet so im not qualified to compare her to scarlet
2. i have poor reflexes, so her burst for me isnt as good/useful.. she just have huge damage numbers.

[whole fox]

the lessor notice and tracksion she get the lessor chance she will get hit by the nerf

[wintry ravine]

just leave her burst to auto for sure

[cyan coral]

Scarlet will always be better in terms of dps because she doesn't have to burst to get her biggest tool for damage going, she just does damage.
Lap excells on bosses because of all the extra damage she does, but scarlet just consistently keeps doing damage regardless of the unit

[wintry ravine]

anyways apologies for being a bit rude, you didn't deserve it. It's nice to see this channel, I wasn't aware it existed

[whole fox]

its rather here only accept real data stuff rather than just bias left right center *well abit so *

i mean in a 1 cycle base and laplace can do so much damage is pretty intresting in my opion

[wintry ravine]

sometimes burst is prefrable to more straight DPS though, like hitting bosses in windows or even tanky enemies on stages where you have to hold the point (you need to burst them asap)

[whole fox]

she surely can do huge burst dmg in short time but i do agree cuz once her burst is over her average dps number fall off quite hard

[unborn glacier]

very hard drop

[whole fox]

thats where scarlet is different cuz scarlet is more of a stable dpser

[cyan coral]

yeah I get that but there are going to inevitably be times when you can't burst, and in those times scarlet will always excel, that's the biggest downside to lap, her damage isn't bad though I've been using her in place of a sniper and it's been working out pretty well

[wintry ravine]

this is not true, her attacks are aoe so often can out dps scarlet outside of burst too

many stages have huge balls of enemies, each additional is basically a multiplier for laplace

[whole fox]

hmm that could be something worth looking into as well acutally

[unborn glacier]

im well 50/50 on that bit

[cyan coral]

the biggest strength to lap rn tho is probably she's easier to get ahold of than say, scarlet or harran, just because she's featured atm

[unborn glacier]

like are you gonna field laplace and make her shine shooting blobs of enemies

[whole fox]

• i do like people are undervaluing her*

cuz means lessor people will know and lessor chance of nerf

[unborn glacier]

or field an actual proper team to handle the blobs

[wintry ravine]

if you play around with both you'll find that it's just stage dependant, sometimes laplace performs better, sometimes scarlet