MoP Druid

[pallid sorrel]

What are the timings in there right now

[cinder horizon]

The weak aura looks at the time left on Rip and roar and calculates when you should refresh roar so you have enough time to build 5 cp to re apply rip

[pallid sorrel]

No I know what it is hahaha I’m asking what’s the offset currently

[cinder horizon]

I think its somewhere around 12 seconds

[pallid sorrel]

Since it’s timed aroound the sim and the sim as far as I remember doesn’t much care about offsetting anymore

Are u online?

[cinder horizon]

Negative at work

[pallid sorrel]

👍

I’ll bug Bison about it 🙂

[cinder horizon]

He made it lol

[pallid sorrel]

Hence why he’s the man I’ll bug hahaha

[deft jolt]

when testing im getting told to spam rake instead of mangle on the Feral ST one is this supposed to be right?

[pallid sorrel]

If u have procs up and rnt gonna overwrite a stronger rake then ya

It scales rly hard off AP where mangle doesn’t so very quickly becomes more dmg even on the initial hit than mangle, basically with a single proc

[deft jolt]

ah okay i just did a 1 min test and even when no cds or anything up was making me use rake so was just wondering

[pallid sorrel]

Should be based on agi procs not CDs (since like TF is a flat 15% so affects them equally)

And then obvs if u can snap Rake for a higher dot

[fading spear]

Not sure what changed in this weeks update for NAG, but the rotation for balance is much different. And I dont think it is nearly as good.
Missing many casts of starsurge. Probably 50% usage now compared to last week.
Still suggesting "Incarnation: Chosen of Elune" when its on CD.
Now suggesting Celestial Alignment when it isnt synced up with Incarn.
The opener has changed and doesnt provide a snapshot of DoTs.
I havent seen any mention of balance druid changes, so maybe its just the overall NAG addon logic changes?

[kindred girder]

what version were you previously on do you recall?

[fading spear]

I swapped to the Wago updater and updated the 1st version from that. since then its been this weird rotation

[fading spear]

Previously i was using the curseforge 5.5.5 version, non beta

[kindred girder]

hrm, interesting. was a ton of changes. but not sure got many balnace ppl had tested it. don't think they got any snapshot stuff.. so i have to try to figure out whats diff there i guess

[fading spear]

the biggest downside i see right now is starsurge is ONLY being recommended during the instant cast now. The opener stuff maybe thats new with 4 piece? not sure

[manic drift]

Alataria is working on the APL mate

[fading spear]

Yeah Im aware theyve been working on it. Havent seen any mention of a balance druid update on the nag-updates channel which made me confused why the rotation is so different this week. I saw that on Sept 10 there was an update with v5.5.5. Up until this week, the rotation has been working great, but its acting so different in priority and such

[buoyant grotto]

It’s weird bc afaik there shouldn’t have been any change to it yet

But I’ll try to have the new APL done this weekend 🙂

[manic drift]

exactly, there havent been any change

[kindred girder]

yes, but if @fading spear went from the old curse release to the .6 releases... this would be indicative that there is something that changed w/o y'all changing the rotation 🙂 so a core issue as they mentioned?

[buoyant grotto]

could be yeah, you did changes to how it tracks eclipse energy right? although i cant remember if that was something i custom built and added into my wip apl or if it was in the user apl too

[kindred girder]

ya, true i changed that. but i also removed ALLLLLL the hardcoded values in all the handlers and totally replaced the old FindAura with a new one with cache and other stuff... so def could be 'something wrong' lol

so is possible specific funcs might need to be tweaked with the overrides in the common location now. Hoping once i can get back into the db2 data files again i can figure out how some of those relationships are formed and then those will be dynamically generated not have to be added to the table etc

[fading spear]

Figured I'd throw this info in as well in case its just a simple, wrong rotation got imported into the new Wago client.
Not sure if it was like this on the curseforge version as well, but the rotation that Wago has for balance is from "Jiw" and shows last modified as "2025-07-03"

[kindred girder]

It should have been. Those dates/fields are generated by the bot. So; f person updating doesn't manually adjust... I take a look though and see if same tx for notice

[fading spear]

I’m raiding in my balance Druid again tomorrow, I’ll see if the issues are still there after a week

[midnight coyote]

is there a way to toggle it so it doesnt recommend Healing touch when you arent using DoC?

[manic drift]

Guys take note the current status of boomie NAG is not really usable so there are lot of inconsistencies. Mr @buoyant grotto is taking care of the boomie APL.

[modern fog]

Is there any update or messaging about feral (kitty) not working? Newest update seems to have broken it. Sorry if I missed it, just logged into to do some dailies and it’s not working at all.

[restive sparrow]

Then I won't update 🙂 can you install a precius version?

[unique lichen]

@manic drift i think this one was stable for ferals. while rak fixes the beta versions

@modern fog @restive sparrow the one im reffering above should be stable and with all the updated snapshots

[restive sparrow]

Im making a backup 😉

[manic drift]

cool. Is it possible to get the rotation to import?

I know there were lot of fixes on later releases

[unique lichen]

this version's default should have the most updated rotation itself, the updates were fixes to the snapshotting logic on this one, which should automatically fix the rotation in place

we are in the process of reviewing it all but nothing solid atm

[manic drift]

perfect ty!

[fading spear]

With the new NAG addon update the balance druid rotation has reverted back to the previous version. Where starsurge is suggested to cast much more often and not exclusively on the insta cast proc.
It also is prio'ing starsurge over refreshing or applying Moonfire/Sunfire -- Even without a insta cast proc of it
No longer snapshots DoT's before Incarn/Celestial Alignments fall off

[midnight coyote]

so are we suppose to be using the "feral" or "feral st optimized" cause the first one thinks im using dream of cenarius when i have hotw and the 2nd is telling me to spam rake

[pallid sorrel]

Spamming rake is situationally correct. If you have any agi proc and rnt gonna overwrite a larger dot (happens more often with HotW since ur not snapping DoC) rake actually does more dmg than mangle for the same energy cost. It just scales much harder with AP than mangle does

[manic drift]

Not usable anything for Druids at the moment mate

[unreal creek]

on current beta build i notice in certain fights with mass amount of add spawns that aoe takes over the primary rotation on screen is there a simple way to modify it to only show single target in feral?

[manic drift]

Create a macro with /nagaoe

[fading spear]

Any more info for balance Druid rotation updates? I know roughly a month ago Alataria said they were. I just know it’s changed twice within the last month, and the most recent change was a revert to the previous rotation

[tidal compass]

how is feral dps and guardian doing?

[crystal wedge]

also curious on this...

[buoyant grotto]

Got busy with the Helper app then IRL, did give some pointers to @unique lichen though

[fading spear]

I saw this week, there was an addition of some prepull display. But it doesnt make much sense, and took away from my usual opener. So I’d suggest ignoring whatever prepull is displayed

[unique lichen]

you can customize it, just right click and select to edit

what spec, tho?

we can always review them

[crystal wedge]

Balance

[unique lichen]

Yes, its wrong. Balance needs a full review.
I will work on it tomorrow where alataria left off

The prepull tech wont be timed for balance

It will all be in the NAG itself, the main square

[verbal adder]

@unique lichen can you post when the update for blaance is complete

[unique lichen]

ofc ofc

i will tag all druids

[unique lichen]

remade moonkin

• prepull bar
• rotation updated
• out of combat support including prepull tech
• better CD management, more CDs added, more talent options added.
• snapshotting dots logic added

alataria will be testing and providing his polishments tomorrow, then we ready to release and tag all druids

[unique lichen]

second day of polishing boomkings

im exausted, cant look at my fat ass chiken no more

should be ready soon. Will send another beta with it tomorrow.

Alataria running final tests

[buoyant grotto]

Make the most of the Balance Druid NAG
Here's a few points and macros to get the most out of your Balance Druid in combination with the NAG. If you're interested about learning more about Balance Druid, as it is a pretty complex spec to play well, I highly recommend the Druid Classic Discord and the #mop-balance and #mop-balance-compendium channels.

General
The rotation has been built around using Incarnation together with either Dream of Cenarius or Nature's Vigil.
The reason for only building with Nature's Vigil in mind is due to the other talents in the row being significantly worse and I don't recommend you run either Soul of the Forest or Force of Nature due to this.
So why no Heart of the Wild?
Basically the same answer. It's behind both Dream of Cenarius and Nature's Vigil, and doesn't really provide more raid utility than Nature's Vigil other than one big Tranq. The rotation is the same as NV though so it should theoretically work, if someone runs it and tries it just hit me or Fonsas up if something's wonky.
The difference between NV and DoC is smaller, but DoC is the more powerful talent choice. So if you wanna max out your damage, it's recommended to run DoC.

Engineering
If you run engineering, which I recommend due to it being significantly stronger than other professions, I recomend having to seperate Starfall buttons. One for your opener (first and second Starfall casts of the fight, as you want to use your Synapse Springs with Celestial Alignment here) which is just a plain Starfall, then one with a macro of Synapse Springs + Starfall. If you're good at remembering to using your Synapse Springs, you can of course skip this.

Dream of Cenarius
If running DoC, I'd suggest having one button for Healing Touch, one for Nature's Swiftness and a macro for Nature's Swiftness + Healing Touch. The reason for having both NS + HT macro and a regular Healing Touch on your bars is due to multi-spell macros sometimes bugging out when one is on cooldown. The reason for having Nature's Swiftness plain on your bars is you'll press after a Healing Touch in the opener in order to get a free instant Healing Touch before using Celestial Alignment.

Nature's Vigil
When running Nature's Vigil, I recommend macroing it together with Incarnation. You will get another use in the fight where the NAG will recommend you to use it.

Macros
Incarnation Potion/NV with spellqueue clear
#showtooltip Incarnation
/use [group:raid] Potion of the Jade Serpent
/cast Incarnation
/cast [talent:6/3] Nature's Vigil
/cqs

CA/Racial (you might have to push this twice to have the Moonfire Apply, I just spam it until I see it's applied)
#showtooltip Celestial Alignment
/cast Celestial Alignment
/use Berserking
/use 10
/cast Moonfire
/cqs

Natures Swiftness + Healing Touch
#showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Healing Touch
/cqs

New Balance rotation is now on Beta
Please give it a try and contact me or @unique lichen if anything seems off. I recommend giving the message above this a read as well in order to get the most out of the NAG. Happy booming!
<@&1375693360588787782>

[obtuse hull]

is there a way to disable the AoE suggestion for feral ? from what I can see ive turned off the 'Auto rotation switching' and even tried the /nagaoe command but it still seems to want to force it 🙂

[unique lichen]

/nagaoe should be enough, worst case, disable nameplates with "V" and it cant count mobs while i work on a fix

will test tomorrow

[deft jolt]

i found i have to disable the nameplates with the feral everytime i do the /nagaoe doesnt seem to work on feral

[unique lichen]

i will test it today!

DRUID was treated as ranged for all specs

found the bug

will send a patch

[pine isle]

Fonsas forgetting feral exists just like Blizzard usually does 😂 love it, just joking fonsas. 🙏

[unique lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-homer-simpson-gif-13518564799186478937

[unique lichen]

wait, you guys are trolling me, newest beta has it fixed

already

maybe something clicked into its place withou tme touching

@pine isle @obtuse hull @deft jolt /nagaoe is working on the latest beta
you can confirm via /dump NAG:NumberTargets()

[pine isle]

Anyone tried feral recently, how does it hold up?

[wary swift]

Also curious for some feedback on feral. Interested in leveling a druid but I am 100% sure I will not perform good in raids without NAG rotation 🙂

[unique lichen]

should be pretty damn decent! Last i worked on it we added snapshots and all possible shenanigans @pine isle @wary swift

#1347561867106717769 message
that was milkshare before all the updates, using feral nag

its in a better state now, so

[lament hatch]

its kind of clunky tbh. there are times where nothing shows up for 10 seconds plus. aoe is totally broken, just spazzes out often times showing 1 swipe and then nothing. doesnt suggest thrash (on cc or otherwise) most of the time. i think FF is broken because it shows up far too often

[unique lichen]

Assuming youre using the most updated beta after a "/nag reset class" just to be sure youre in the most updated rotation,
then thats a @pallid sorrel @balmy orchid request to take a look what broke and where.

also please check /nag > class > rotation manager and check alternative rotations, we do have more than 1 avaialble if i recall correctly

[unique lichen]

asked diurdude to take another deep dive into ferals, will poke you here once we get more updates ❤️

[unique lichen]

this legit seem like a buggy version you used, I spammed the rotation for 4 min, nothing blank for more than 1 sec sporadically.
FF you can indeed spam to push for the reset proc, i just polished to make it have less prio when FF already in place
I havent tried AOE, lets wait for diurdude updates/verdict

[calm oar]

While things are being looked into, it would be cool if it recognized if you had the Heart of the Wild talent 🙂 I think it sims better on a few fights over DoC

[lament hatch]

it works fine on a dummy

its in the raid that i find issues

ill try a /nag reset class

[pallid sorrel]

Hey guys I will be getting on this but it’s going to take time, hopefully can get it set up before ToT drops though

[spare bane]

Ima attempt to dive in and see what’s what with it

[spare bane]

This will be a work in progress. For now just gonna make sure we get DoC/Bearweaving set up correctly

[lament hatch]

just tried it today, was worse than before the ff fix

just spams ff on cd , trees dont show, ended up just doing it raw because it was pretty close to being unusable for me

(this was 5.6.2 b3)

[unique lichen]

might be something else triggerign it. i will take a look. did you try on Dummy or raid?

[lament hatch]

raid

[spare bane]

Apologies for the delay on the update I’ve been hella busy irl will send off my notes/video soon to get an updated apl done

[unique lichen]

thanks! much appreciated ❤️

[halcyon silo]

@buoyant grotto hey, Fonsas recommended you, i would like to ask few question about balance, could you take a moment and help me?

[unique lichen]

Feel free to ask already! he will reply when he is home (if someone else doesnt reply earlier)

[lament hatch]

any update on feral?

[unique lichen]

@spare bane said he will have time in the next days/week. With ToT race and christmas week he has been away from reviewing duties
lets keep poking him

[spare bane]

I am slowly getting around to it ToT race into xmas at work has been a long few weeks haha

[tidal compass]

I dont know if that is the intent but I noticed that the nag tells you to refresh dream of cenarius when you have the proc to instant cast Healing Touch even if you already have one stack left of Dream of Cenarius... Take it with a grain of salt but I think it should tell you to spend that Dream of Cenarius and cast Healing Touch after to refresh the buff

[unique lichen]

feral of boomkin?

[tidal compass]

Feral

[hoary belfry]

hey guys , can anyone help me with this

[thin gyro]

normal for feral rotation to say use rake a whole lot? other times i get full combo points/energy with like 8+ sec on rake/rip dots and it just shows to do nothing? this normal behavior? and does the casting healing touch constantly just due to hte proc and it wanting you to use it?

[unique lichen]

plz try a "/nag reset class"

[unique lichen]

feral is currently being revised entirely, its just been rough with the holiday season, should be updated soon.
but in short, keep in mind that we have shapshot logic in place and it may not be wrong.. it may be just reapplying buffs with a higher snapshot

but we will make sure we revisit that when we get to it

[thin gyro]

thanks for the info!

[sweet aspen]

According to a post above, Rake also scales better with AP than Mangle. So at a certain breakpoint (trinket procs, etc.) Rake becomes better in terms of damage per energy.

[lament hatch]

tested new updates. seems a little better. still doesnt recommend thrash curing CC procs when its not up.

aoe still mesed up. nag frame just disappears and doesn't call for anything for big chunks of time (10+ seconds) until roar is gonna fall off

[lament hatch]

ran in raid. thrash does came up occasionally, had to disable aoe because it just breaks. fearie fire still comes up on cd. some funky logic when roar and rip are both ~10sec and you have 5 cp. just sits not recommending anything. better than it was but still needs work.

[marble river]

@unique lichen any ideas on how blance works here

[unique lichen]

Yoo. Whats the question?

[unique lichen]

Ty! Did you stream by any chance?

[marble river]

Dose balance work well or is not optimal yet

[unique lichen]

it does work well. it was polished by alataria when he was top 5 in the world ❤️
no complaints from balances after alataria polished it

check pins for his guide

[tidal compass]

I am going to give my feedback on the Feral NAG but by no means think I am an expert on Feral... I am only giving these comments based on what I have read from the Feral Guide in wowhead and on logic.

1. Predatory Swiftness allows us to cast healing Touch for free and instantly which gives us Dream of Cenarious for an additional 30% damage on the next 2 melee abilities but I have seen a few problems with this. The NAG recommends casting Healing Touch even when you already have 1 or even 2 Dream of Cenarius. In my opinion, the nag should recommend spending those stacks of dream of cenarius and cast healing touch again to proc it again.
2. The NAG recommends refreshing Faerie Fire still too much and I think it is doing it when you are "Waiting" for energy when I think it should recommend you to either bear weave or cast wrath. I understand it is important to have Faerie Fire up at all times but since there are a other classes in raid that can do this, I think you should apply a logic that it should be recommended when it has less than 20 seconds left or something like that. I am now reading that Faerie Fire also deals damage and has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle when casted from Bear Form, so, should we cast it on bear form?
3. AOE is still broken like Beef said.
4. I have yet to see any Bearweaving recommendations.
5. I have yet to see any Wrath recommendations.

[lean ocean]

ill have alook

[lean ocean]

1. True, ill have a look 2. it does to proc CC afaik, 3. ill have a look 4. ill check that 5. i dont think there is no reason to cast wrath only if u are not in melle range or u playing Heart of the Wild talent but i think nobody is doing that

[lean ocean]

or IMPORT string

Soul of the forest and Dream of the cenarius talents

no AOE just ST atm

NAG:AutocastOtherCooldowns()
or ((not NAG:AuraIsActive(5487)) and (not NAG:AuraIsActive(768)) and (not NAG:AuraIsActive(108292))) and NAG:Cast(768) -- Cat Form
or (NAG:CurrentTime() == 0 or NAG:DotRemainingTime(770) <= 3.0 ) and NAG:Cast(770) -- Faerie Fire
or NAG:AuraRemainingTime(127538) < 3 and NAG:Cast(127538) -- Savage Roar
or NAG:AuraIsActive(5217) and NAG:Cast(106737) -- Force of Nature
or NAG:CurrentEnergy() < 35 and NAG:AuraIsActive(768) and NAG:Cast(5217) -- Tigers Furry
or NAG:AuraIsActive(5217) and NAG:Cast(106951) -- Berserk
or (not NAG:AuraIsActive(132158)) and NAG:Cast(132158) -- Nature swift
or ((NAG:AuraIsActive(16974) and NAG:CurrentComboPoints() > 3 ) or (NAG:AuraIsActive(16974) and NAG:AuraRemainingTime(16974) <= 2)) and (not NAG:AuraIsActive(145152)) and NAG:Cast(5185) -- healing touch
or NAG:AuraIsActive(135700) and NAG:DotRemainingTime(106830) <= 3.0 and NAG:DotIsActive(106830) and NAG:Cast(106830) -- Trash while CC
or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) <= 2.0 and NAG:Cast(1079) -- Rip
or ((NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) > 3.0 ) or (NAG:IsExecutePhase(25) and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) >= 0.0)) and NAG:Cast(22568) -- Ferocious Bite
or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() < 5 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1822) <= 3.0 and NAG:Cast(1822) -- Rake
or NAG:DotRemainingTime(106830) <= 3.0 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) >= 3.0 and NAG:Cast(106830) -- Trash
or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() < 5 and (NAG:AuraIsActive(106951) or NAG:AuraIsActive(135700)) and NAG:Cast(5221) -- Shred
or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() < 5 and NAG:Cast(33876) -- Mangle

[lean ocean]

IF any feral want to try

[unique lichen]

@tidal compass @lament hatch @sweet aspen @thin gyro
plz try the above. /nag > Class > rotation manager > edit rotation and add the above there

@lean ocean can you also send the import string plz?

[unique lichen]

horalius is making it from scratch for us, folks!

[lean ocean]

not yet complete but i think im getting somewhere

[tidal compass]

I tested it briefly and it seems to be better but after I relogged and/or died, the nag dissapeared

I just realized the rotation turned off by itself after I died

Weird but I am sure it has nothing to di with the rotation… I’ll do some dungeons to test it out more extensively throughout the day

[lean ocean]

please install latest beta, there was bug with rake from treants

treated like rake from druid

[tidal compass]

will do

[tidal compass]

and update to this rotation after, right?

[lean ocean]

yes please

it doesnt containts opener or bearweaing or owlweaing atm

i think we can skip owlweaving does it somebody using it?

[tidal compass]

true

[lament hatch]

will test in raid when i can. 1 thing i notice from dummy is it recommends savage roar with 1 or 0 cp far too early. (previous versions had this too). sometimes there is plenty of time/energy to gain cp for more than 1 pt roar and it still recommends it.

faerie fire seems much better.

[unique lichen]

@lean ocean !

[lean ocean]

will post update about SR later this day

[lean ocean]

found some hehes inside

should be better now

[tidal compass]

@unique lichen please check if the rotation gets disabled when you reload when you make the changes. I think is doing it on my end because I manually input the latest rotation.

[unique lichen]

let me send a beta with it native

[unique lichen]

can you send the latest NAG code?

[lean ocean]

posted in dudu channel

[lean ocean]

@unique lichen you borrow the NAG:DotPercentIncrease from fojji WA? 😄

[unique lichen]

fojii + merfin + SIMs

https://tenor.com/view/aunty-donna-broden-broden-kelly-hands-up-manbeast-gif-21629059

[lean ocean]

can u send me the logic behind it?

probably every proc has fixed % increase like trinket 20% buff 30%

[mystic oxide]

Possible issues found:

1. After finishing the feral burst, when 'Savage Roar' is about to expire, the action isn’t being prioritized over the others.
2. 'Berserk' should be treated as a secondary action, not a primary one, so you can choose when to use it. The base rotation should still be shown to avoid blocking other actions.
3. Also, add 'Faerie Fire' as an optional/complementary action to apply 'Weakened Armor'.

[lean ocean]

thanks mate, 1. yes i know that will be fixed today, 2. we will change spell position for berserk to right 3. will add check if there is Weakeand armor already on the target or put the spell position to the bottom

[lean ocean]

import string if anybody want to test

can add check to override big dick rip if is like 50% increase and 6second on rip left

i think its good atm ill add bearweaing and AOE

[mystic oxide]

1. 'Berserk' is still showing as a main/prio ability, it should be an optional action instead. ❌
2. 'Faerie Fire' is already being requested correctly. ✅
3. 'Savage Roar' is only suggested when you have 5 combo points, but it should be refreshed even with 0 CP as long as you have 'Glyph of Savagery'. ❌
4. You can add a 'Bear Weaving' action when 'Rake' and 'Rip' are active on the target, and for AoE situations when there are more than 4 targets.

Check these points and once it’s done, send me a version to test. GJ!! 🤝

[mystic oxide]

@lean ocean
Another thing more,

I’m not sure about the logic behind the 'Thrash' action, because, i think it should only be suggested if 'Savage Roar' still has enough time left before expiring, 'Rake' and 'Rip' are active on the target, and you have 5 combo points.

Because if 'Rip' is about to expire and you don’t have enough combo points to refresh it, it doesn’t really make sense to suggest casting 'Thrash'.

What do you think?

[lean ocean]

yeah savage roar chcek is missing

will work of those things when i get back from gym

[mystic oxide]

Chill dont worry

[unique lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/gym-gym-time-gym-workout-gym-fail-workout-gif-1885953623805001741

[lean ocean]

@mystic oxide can u please test latest beta?

and please chcek your spell position for berserk

added bearweaing when <30 energy

not rip check according to wowsims soo only rake and SR

[unique lichen]

it doesnt have the latest you sent yet

the one with different positions, we need to confirm which goes where

[lean ocean]

if he will probably reading this it will be latest 😄

[mystic oxide]

ok i will try it this evening ty

[lament hatch]

berserk still seen as "main" instead of optional on the latest beta from the updates channel

too aggressive with ferocious bite. (suggests anywhere from 8s to 2s left on rip)
needs to suggest to refresh rip at 2s or less. waits for it to fall

agreed about thrash, over suggesting.

[lean ocean]

find the issiue 3 ids for berserk, one is cast and two other are bear version and one cat version

[lean ocean]

did some changes fonsas will post update with it

[modern fog]

Looking at logs for top ferals, it seems that Rake is still our go damage dealer, yet with the new updates, Mangle is being prio'd...does casting Mangle overtake Rake with gear, or where does that change come from?

[modern fog]

Also, sorry for the spam, but calling for bearweaving way more than I remember.

[unique lichen]

its been redone from scratch. last version was not all that polished. are any of these calls wrong tho?

[lean ocean]

yes i was thinking about hard refresh rake when better snapshot

[lean ocean]

if u look at the sims trash from bearform has like 65% uptime

and yes its still work in progress

[lean ocean]

@modern fog@mystic oxide plz try latest beta did som changes

will need some finetuning for bearweaing but rake rip will snapshot better

[verbal adder]

I’m following the rotation for nag Druid boomy I feel like my rotation isn’t based of my current stats as I’m taking for ever to get into eclipse states with my cast wow simsmop keeps reforming me to 18% even tho my bp is 24% haste any ideas

[spare bane]

you'd only ever cast rake inside trinket procs aslong as it wont override a bigger buffed rake, otherwise mangle is your filler

[unique lichen]

i was thinking.. what if we make snapshots override suggestions be to the right side with the % increase on them?
i mean.. if it shows its bcs you are already considering it a valid choice.. but showing alternative for players to choose their path and adapt may end the discussion

[lean ocean]

i set it up if its rake 15% better snapshot ill suggest to override it

[lean ocean]

if u can make function for it

i can do it

[unique lichen]

alright i found a few things that may be able to improve the snapshot perception

i added a few checks for remaining time before suggesting a snapshot, so that we knoe the mob is going to live longer than the duration of what we are trying to snapshot

added the same for all healing touch cases too, when it comes prio to a snapshot

[unique lichen]

we can cast with overlay, just making sure that all snapshot are their own entries

let me send a proposal for ya

i mean, let me send you one with just the time to die elements

and the snapshot percent increase

if thats still feeling weird, we make them show to the side later

[spare bane]

I don't think this is entirely necessary, the only time you wouldn't override a rip for a better one is if the boss is at like 5% or so

if the rip is > then your current you should replace

[unique lichen]

please try checking the guide we have in the pins. Alataria was top 3 boomy when he made the nag for boomies and he was pretty happy with it. it might be intended? I got no clue.. just check if theres anything w can do to improve please

[spare bane]

then ideally under 25% hp you wont rerip coz you'll hopefully have your biggest snap for execute

[unique lichen]

even if the new rip only lasts a few ticks?

[spare bane]

Im talking more for bosses only time I wouldn't replace a rip with a stronger if the boss is like below 10%

[unique lichen]

my idea was to gate them behind (NAG:RemainingTime() >= (NAG:DotBaseDuration(1822) + 1.5))

[unique lichen]

if the boss wont survive the duration of the buff he should be damn close or bellow 10
that gate would make snapshotting feel better overall

i mean

i suppose

@lean ocean can you plz check if this one breaks anything

they have the snapshot % text in them

[lean ocean]

if u use same logic for snapshot it shouldnt

[unique lichen]

its same same but different

[lean ocean]

but it will be better if i do it

[unique lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/same-gif-8650053

[unique lichen]

i sent a beta with it!

[lean ocean]

😄

aaaaaa

let me try it in game

[unique lichen]

its inc, give it 1 min

you should see the snapshot percent when a snapshot is taking place

and they are gated over the time left for the mob to die

might require fine tuning, but

its something

https://discord.com/channels/963490632851132456/1257963268169797663

[lean ocean]

if u want to do this way u have to change the logic for the first healing touch and rake

and ideally u dont want to show rake and hd snapsshot at the same time right

[unique lichen]

i chenged the healing touches too

added extra time onthem

at least i think i covered all

[spare bane]

whens it trying to send first HT?

[lean ocean]

nevermind

[spare bane]

np

[unique lichen]

its just that the apl has several checks if the user needs/can/should HT, including before applying snapshots.. what he said is that if we know that HT will lead to a snapshot being applied it should also be able to track that the snapshot will be called right after, similar fight duration gates

[spare bane]

Ah okay understandable

[lean ocean]

ill test it and post updat after i go back for shopping

[lament hatch]

havent tested newer builds but issue with bearweaving too much is if you have roro, youre going to completely fuck your proc when you get it in bear

get a bear proc and youre fucking cooked

[lean ocean]

can u please explain what is roro? 😄

a Rune of Reogination

@unique lichen do we have function to track trinket proc per minute?

or how exactly works NAG:TrinketProcsMinRemainingTime

[unique lichen]

of the 2 trinkets, what the remaing time of their active buffs.. if both are active, will return the lowest time. if only one will return that on

[verbal adder]

s
/nag

[lean ocean]

boys if u have any feedback for lastest version ill be happy

[mystic oxide]

i’ve tested the rotation with the latest snapshotting changes it looks quite solid. i say almost because sometimes, when casting 'rip' would snapshot a better dot, it still suggests 'ferocious bite' instead. also, for bear weaving, instead of suggesting multiples abilities, i’d probably set it up as a small ability sequence, with the last step being swapping back to 'cat form'. other than that, everything looks good. thx for the work 😄

Good job! @lean ocean

[lean ocean]

will tune it up according to your feedback ❤️

[lament hatch]

did some dummy earlier, albeit it for a pretty short period of time. didnt bearweave, not sure how you implemented it but generally if you get a CC should tell you to cat right away. seemed ok, will raid with it this week, see how it is

[spice perch]

I test NAG feral mop this morning, it seems taht NAG preferer ferocious bite instead of refresh rip.

Target is dummy at 100%, rip remaining time time is under 3sec and nag call to use ferosious bite, which seems a bit strange ?

[spare bane]

yeah should only ever wanna bite to refresh only at 25% and under

[mystic oxide]

@lean ocean i think that this section about your code is wrong

or ((NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) >= 6.0 ) or (NAG:DotIsActive(1079) and NAG:IsExecutePhase(25) and ((NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) <= 1.5) or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5)) and NAG:AuraRemainingTime(127538) >= 6 ) and NAG:Cast(22568)

The first section seems correctly, but i'll add NAG:AuraRemainingTime(127538) >= 6

or ((NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5 and NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) >= 6.0 and NAG:AuraRemainingTime(127538) >= 6 ) or

The second part i've dude,

(NAG:DotIsActive(1079) and NAG:IsExecutePhase(25) and ((NAG:DotRemainingTime(1079) <= 1.5) or NAG:CurrentComboPoints() == 5)) and NAG:AuraRemainingTime(127538) >= 6 ) and NAG:Cast(22568)

[lean ocean]

let me have a look today

thanks for all feedback

yeah something must be wrong with the FB part

[lean ocean]

yes i have one wrongly placed ) parenthesis

[lean ocean]

still didnt have time to fix it will do it after raid today

[lean ocean]

posted some updates

little but tuned up bearweaing and savage roar check for fericous bite

[mystic oxide]

Are the changes in release?

[lean ocean]

should be

[pine isle]

How has feral come along, lots of work done recently, how does it feel?

[unique lichen]

def in a MUCH better state

Horalius is tuning AOE calls now. Snapshots and bearweaving have been worked on the most

[pine isle]

Glad to hear it, if single target work really well thats all that matters to me 💪

[lean ocean]

Let us know please the snapshot treshold for both bleeds are 15% thinking about lovering it to 10% for rip

[pine isle]

Will raid test it Sunday

[spare bane]

you mean for when its worth to snapshot a new rip over an old one?

[lean ocean]

exactly

[spare bane]

you always wanna resnapshot

even if its 1% better

[lean ocean]

for both rip and rake?

[spare bane]

Yeah

[pine isle]

Sounds crazy to resnap rip for 1%, no?

Or am i crazy

[lean ocean]

i think the same that was why i put 15% treshold for increase

[pine isle]

Im happy to be educated but resnapping a combo spender for a 1% tick increase sounds wild 😅

If anything i think it should be time dependant

If theres 4 second left on tip youd resnap for a smaller gain than if theres 14 seconds left

In Theory it should probably be a gradual scale as for where the threshold lies imo

[lean ocean]

wowsims calculate it if the snapshot worths energy or something like tat

but i cannot find any logic for that

[pine isle]

Yeah i can imagine you can math it out in many ways but making it a simple rule for nag is a different thing 😅

[spare bane]

sounds crazy but it is almost always worth resnapping for a better rip

[lean ocean]

will lover it to 5% rip and 10% rake

[pine isle]

Thats more along the lines of what id expect as a baseline, not sure if its feasible to add thresholds based on duration left?

[lean ocean]

thants not the problem 😄 problem is the tresholds

[pine isle]

Ie. 12+ sec left on rip refresh at +10%

5-12 sec left refresh at +5%

Etc

The exact values i dont know tho

But applying a new rip right after applying one for a 1% gain sounds like a big waste of cp 😅

[spare bane]

what else you use your cp on?

feral dmg all comes from bleeds

[spare bane]

Rake is worth lowering even more, rake with agi procs hits harder than mangle does

[lean ocean]

ducky!

i trust u

ill change that with your feedback

[pine isle]

I mean if youd overwrite a 20 Sec rip for a 16 sec with 1% more dps im sure a literal bite would be more damage despite it being bit of a meme

Or even just using the global on a shred 😅

[spare bane]

but why would the rip go from 20 sec to 16 if its a full 5cp rip?

[pine isle]

Point is there has to be some cutoff where its not ideal to resnap a rip for a little gain

[spare bane]

that cut off is when its 0% increase or a negative ngl

[pine isle]

And if we could find that cut offs based on other circumstances thatd be better than a blanket statement

If the cutoff truly is that low then by all means im happy to be wrong

[spare bane]

the cutoff is very low

[pine isle]

Its very low yes no doubt about it

@lean ocean ill send a feral raid tommorow with it

[lean ocean]

will be nice any feedback will be welcomed

[spare bane]

to put it in retrospective on my rank 1 Duru this week my avg bite was 285k dmg where as my avg rip cast was 2.93 mil

its tough because feral is that niche spec where its hard to follow a "set" rotation

to make it safe/friendly for users I would say maybe lower rip to like 3-5% and rake to same

[pine isle]

Yeah thats my point more or less, feral isnt rigid enough that a blanket x% -> resnap is perfect and if we strive for Perfection theres other things to factor in

Also kinda depends on hos good your previous snap is and how likely a good one comes up soon etc, its hard to put blanket rules on feral tbh

[pine isle]

@lean ocean was the thresholds updated in the new beta? 💪

[lean ocean]

Not yet

[lean ocean]

Will update it tommorow today i drove 1300km to germany

[pine isle]

Take ur time champ, no rush

[lean ocean]

its done

when @unique lichen post it with next beta

[kindred girder]

.

[pine isle]

If i am not wrong, the feral nag, if rake runs out shortly before rip and 2 stacks are ready, combo points ready, it will wait for rip before rake despite easily being able to fit in rake before rip and still having a stack ready for rip after

I dont have footage or anything to show it but hope my explanation is good enough

Feels like it said to sit around for upwards of 4 seconds just waiting to rip - is that intended?

[lean ocean]

i probably understand what u mean ill have a look

u mean it doesnt overcap CP when rake expire and rip its about to expire

[pine isle]

Yeah i figure using rake and wasting 1cp should be better than doing Nothing and losing 3-4 secs of rip uptime

[lean ocean]

u mean rake uptime

[lean ocean]

@unique lichen

[unique lichen]

youre a legend, brother

[lean ocean]

plz test if u can

[pine isle]

yes sorry

[pine isle]

will do tommorow

[lunar veldt]

Quick question, I’ve been using the merfin snapshot weakaura that’s been the standard for awhile I’ve recently updated and noticed nag also has a snap shot. For the most part they are similar but at specific moments I notice that they don’t match up. I think it’s while under the effects of tigers fury

I’m not sure which one is more reliable

[unique lichen]

WAs by nature take some time to update. This might be the case?
They should match eventually, do they?

[lunar veldt]

They match most of the time but there’s occurrences when they don’t and nag is showing a substantial bleed increase but the kuron/merfin shows a bleed decrease. The feral discord recommends the merfin/kuron snapshot weakaura so just curious if the weakaura could be wrong

[lean ocean]

can u make video if its possible?

so we can deep dive in?

[solid vigil]

Good morning or good evening, everyone! I’m reaching out to all the Feral Druid experts in this MoP group. I’m using the NAG guide, and I’ve noticed that for Feral Druids, it suggests incorporating bearweaving into the rotation. However, in every forum I’ve read, everyone says that this only results in a loss of DPS. Could someone please clarify this for me and tell me if it’s correct or not? Because if that’s not the case, I don’t know why the NAG suggests Bearweaving as part of the rotation.

thanks in advance!

[unique lichen]

its a gain if done properly. NAG tracks all the variables so you dont hurt yourself while doing it.

@lean ocean could maybe confirm/explain better

[lean ocean]

Hi it should be gain if done properly, but i think we can add toggle to turn it off

[solid vigil]

Thanks to both @unique lichen @lean ocean for your response! In my personal experience using NAG with that suggested sequence, I find it useful when the druid runs out of energy—shifting to bear form to maintain rotation continuity and then back to cat form— however, all the forums (Reddit, Blizzard, and even when consulting the AI) are agree that turning into bear form is a DPS loss since it takes longer to regenerate energy than in cat form

But my priincipal reference is WarcraftLogs. When checking some top DPS players in 25-man raids who play Feral Druid, I notice that they don’t shift into Bear form during their rotation, and that’s what makes me, as an inexperienced player and apprentice, question whether it’s appropriate or not.

thanks soo much for your feedback!! im really apreciate it, im just wanna try to have the better experience

[lean ocean]

@unique lichen can u disable togle to turn of bearweaving same as on TBC?

turn off/on bearform

[unique lichen]

btw, if you look for 2x Thrash you can better track whos bearweaving and whos not.
i found like 6 in the top 10 ferals in horridon properly brear weaving

but i will make it be assignable!

so you toggle it off

quick fix would be to to blacklist bear form

under /nag > class

while i dont send a beta

[solid vigil]

Thanks soo much! As for whether or not to remove the suggestion in NAG, I’d personally like to hear from you experienced players whether it’s the right thing to do. I really enjoy bearweaving because it keeps me from getting “stuck” in a rut with my rotation, but since there are conflicting opinions out there, I just want to know if it’s the right approach or not.

[unique lichen]

in the end it depends on the fight i would say. if you get the opportunity to weave you weave, but if theres a lot of movement and lots of tab/cleave, you dont have room for it. I'd keep rolling with it

[solid vigil]

Thanks for the recommendation—I’ll do that and keep following the suggested NAG sequence (I’m really happy with the rotation suggestions it offers).

[deft jolt]

i have noticed on the feral druid one there are 2 options ferak abd ferak ST - Optimized and when i select the ST on its blank is it supposed to be?

[lean ocean]

Its probably leftover and not working

[unique lichen]

@deft jolt
The MoP Feral rotation puts Berserk before Rip on purpose. If you Berserk at 5 CP while Rip still has a few seconds and isn’t in the refresh window, nothing in the list wants Shred (needs <5 CP), Bite (needs Rip ≥6s), or Rip (needs pandemic or +4% snapshot). The only filler left is emergency Mangle at high energy. Workaround: get Rip up before Berserk, or only Berserk when Rip is about to fall off / is worth refreshing.

I COULD relax Rip during berserk

so i double check its not a bug, can you confirm:

• what you see is Cat Mangle (33876) or Bear Mangle (33878)? You can alt while hoeving the icon to see — this rules out bearweave.
• 5 CP when it happens?
• Rip still on target and roughly how much time left?
• Dream of Cenarius talented?

i COULD do the following regardless of your answerts

• Don’t suggest Mangle at 5 CP during Berserk — remove or gate the energy >= 95 emergency Mangle when AuraIsActive(106951) and CP == 5.
• Relax Rip during Berserk — e.g. lower DotPercentIncrease threshold or force Rip in opener window when Berserk is up and Rip isn’t active.
• Move Berserk below Rip on opener — only when CurrentTime() < 15 and no Rip on target.