Whitetail and Turkey taxonomy issue!

[cobalt oyster]

Alright I have a complaint about the game, just small complaints that can easily be fixed So i like how the game really shows subspecies and is very specific in taxonomy, but, for the Northwestern Whitetail Deer They have the wrong scientific name, they have Odocoileus virginianus borealis, which is the Northern woodland whitetail deer (Northeastern/eastcoast whitetail) Odocoileus virginianus ochrourus is the correct Scientific name for the Northwestern Whitetail, another thing, in areas west of north america, where moose, whitetail, elk, wolf, mule deer, and dall sheep interlap, its unrealistic to have the Eastern wild turkey (Meleagris gallopavo silvestris) as the main turkey species, and it would be more appropriate for the Merriams wild turkey (M. g. merriami) its a simple fix I believe, all thats needed is a slight reskin for the merriams distinct fan, and a rename.

Oh and even then, Turkeys are still considered too south to be introduced there, because Wood bison and dall sheep habitat is much north of the merriams range

[humble ridge]

They already had a model for the Meriams from WOTH 1, so it’s interesting they didn’t just go with them. I’ve done some basic research into the range of the Meriams and eastern, and couldn’t find anything about the eastern being found in BC. I’m not going to outright say they don’t exist there, but they don’t seem to be too prevalent.

[cobalt oyster]

The eastern was has been introduced to California oregon washington state and idaho, but new laurentia’s wildlife contains Dall sheep and wood bison which make the eastern wild turkey even more unrealistic to add,

[cobalt oyster]

Yep they arent in BC and BC has merriams

[mighty flume]

Sort of like the Lesser Kudu of East Africa being on a map set in Southern Africa with animals like Springbok and Gemsbok over on the Hunter COTW

Its one thing to make the location ambiguous or cover a broad area, its another to have animals that don’t live together at all

A more realistic combination of animals in the case of a map set in the Canadian Rockies would be Bighorn Sheep, Mountain Caribou, Plains Bison (A herd of 130 exist in Banff National Park) and Merriam’s Turkey

[cobalt oyster]

Yes exactly

Stuff like this js pmo in hunting games

They have all the skills to make such high quality animals and graphics and ballistics and all the things in the game but the realism of the species they put in the game, they js fail to show it

Like its literally just placing animals down

I understand the argument “its just a game” but its a game that even brands itself being the most realistic hunting game out tbere

So prove it, don’t make little mistakes like the eastern wild turkey or the whitetail taxonomy failure

[cobalt oyster]

Dall sheep and turkeys cud be removed cuz then it would have animals that’d live w eachother irl

And then js fix the northwestern whitetail’s scientific name to be accurate

[mighty flume]

“Its just a game” was never valid justification to me

I remember a while back I suggested that Stone’s Sheep would have been a better fit over Dall’s Sheep on account of them having a more southern distribution

And yes the correct White-tailed deer subspecies would be cool

[desert halo]

I hope the hell they have diff beards and spurs for the turkeys like longer beards and spurs on the five stars and has anyone seen if the toms strut ?

[cobalt oyster]

It pmo that some ppl have said that to me

They js wont get it

[cobalt oyster]

Guess this @ebon gorge likes his hunting games more arcadey, with species thrown into maps just to shoot, despite real world problems with geography/habitat, some ppl are js here for the game, while im here critiquing ecology and taxonomy.

[lusty latch]

They do have turkeys in BC.

[cobalt oyster]

I just said

[cobalt oyster]

Merriams turkey in BC

Not Eastern Wild Turkeys

[cobalt oyster]

WOTH shud know their subspecies well enough to not make taxonomical mistakes like this

[lusty latch]

It is a game no

[cobalt oyster]

That excuse is honestly stupid

U can say that for any mistake in the game

If its a game focusing on realistic hunting, the least they can do is get the animals right

Ofc it wont ever be realistic

But it shouldnt be that hard to do some name changes

[cobalt oyster]

Like with that logic, why not add Cape Buffalo to the map💀

Thats how i view eastern wild turkeys in a map around western canada

Shouldnt be there

[lusty latch]

Realistic hunting is an illusion in a game

[cobalt oyster]

Ik

But if they want to pull it off

Literally don’t get ur animals wrong

Its simple

Change the name

Its also misleading

Another problem i have

Misleading ppl of what subspecies live where

[lusty latch]

They have a long way to go to make realistic

[cobalt oyster]

A short way to change the name💀

[lusty latch]

I play for the fun

[cobalt oyster]

Well i’m sure you’ve gained some knowledge of wildlife from playing hunting games

Learning species and stuff

[lusty latch]

I've been hunt in real life for 65 years

[cobalt oyster]

I see

Then you’ve got more experience than me

I wanna do some ecological work and conservation in the future which is why im so focused on specifics in seperating species with subspecies and containing genetic purity

For example in the game, they have the northwestern whitetail

But they use the scientific name for the Northeastern whitetail instead

Odocoileus virginianus borealis

It shud be O. v. ochrourus

[lusty latch]

I see your point that is what you are looking for in a game . That OK with me.

[cobalt oyster]

Yeah

Its just misleading

And it pisses me off alot

They can create all this stuff in the game

Like beautiful graphics

And terrain

Yet u still screw up with the names

Theyre better than that

Its a minor mistake

[lusty latch]

That the easy parts of the game

[cobalt oyster]

That has been overlooked

[cobalt oyster]

Really?

Building terrain and graphics?

And then gun physics

Ballistics in game, and then animal AI?

[lusty latch]

They have a long way to go on Ballistic in the game for sure

Animal AI is getting better

[cobalt oyster]

Yeah

I don’t know if Wild turkeys were realistic to add anyways but its understandable why they added them

So i can excuse that

The Merriams subspecies would be the closest and realistic to add

[lusty latch]

😉

[cobalt oyster]

Even though their habitat don’t really live amongst dall shesp

Sheep

And are like hundreds of miles away😭

Merriams turkey range in the dark brown

Dall sheep map

Ykw maybe even a thousand miles away

Theres no way this could be the same hunting map

Stretching provinces away

[lusty latch]

They have in some central BC

The primary wild turkey subspecies living in British Columbia is the Merriam's wild turkey (Meleagris gallopavo merriami), which inhabits the southern interior, specifically the Kootenays and Okanagan regions. These birds were introduced from the U.S. in the 1960s and thrive in open deciduous forests, ponderosa pine forests, and grassland edges.
B.C. Wildlife Federation
B.C. Wildlife Federation
+2
Key details about turkeys in BC:
Location: Most common in the East and West Kootenays (Region 4) and the Okanagan/Boundary region (Region 8).
Appearance: Merriam's are known for having lighter, beige-tipped tail feathers and rump feathers.
Vancouver Island/Gulf Islands: Wild turkeys exist on southern Vancouver Island (e.g., Shawnigan Lake) and some Gulf Islands, but they are considered non-native, escaped farm birds rather than a established wild population, according to 1.
Hunting: There is a spring and fall season for wild turkeys in BC, primarily focused on the Merriam's population.
Behavior: They are known to travel in flocks, foraging on the ground for nuts, berries, and insects, and they roost in trees at night.

[cobalt oyster]

Yeag i thought so

Geographically where would new laurentia be in canada?

[cobalt oyster]

And is the only native turkey subspecies in BC

Well native isnt the correct term

But theyre the original introduced in the 1900s

And would be the best choice to introduce due to similar habitats in the US with Merriams turkeys

[humble ridge]

I would like to add that even in Alberta the Meriam’s subspecies seems to be the only ones present in the region, according to the current sources I’ve read. The Canadian Encyclopedia being one

[fleet jackal]

Some mod told me that "they could introduce anything anywhere as this is private land" live with it.

Aside from sarcasm i also dont like generalised animal selection that is impossible to meet irl.

[mighty flume]

Oh sure they could introduce anything anywhere but at that point you can’t really say the game is realistic

[fleet jackal]

They wont remove neither dall sheep nor turkey from map so no point in this discussion imo. I am pessimistic about that

[humble ridge]

The best I think they could do is at least remodel and rename them. But even that’s a stretch, so I simply have this to say for any devs who read this.

In the future when designing new maps, do more thorough research in the native species of a certain region before adding in species. Folks like me are less likely to complain that way.

[zealous cloud]

It is not supposed to be any one specific region. See statement here: #woth-2-chat message

[mighty flume]

New Laurentia is very Western Canada coded

[cobalt oyster]

Its obviously in western canada

Likelt BC

And even if they dont say it

Thats like saying, a reserve with lions and cape buffalo isnt specific to an african region map

[cobalt oyster]

There are habitat/region limiting species this game has added

Dall sheep western moose and wood bison are main species that would limit the range the reserve would be based on

All are common in BC/western canada

But because these animals exist in new laurentia, it makes eastern wild turkeys an outlier

Also i feel like Dall sheep should be the stone sheep subspecies

[mighty flume]

Cape Buffalo and Lion coexist across Southern and Eastern Africa

But there are animals that do not coexist naturally in Africa like Springbok and Lesser Kudu, with springbok being found in Southwestern Africa and lesser kudu being exclusive to Northeastern Africa (Tanzania to Ethiopia)

[cobalt oyster]

Yeah the 2nd paragraph is a problem w certain animals

The limiting habitat animals as i like to call them

Again, key limiting animals, wood bison

But they cud be excused and thought of as private managed bison bought and introduced to the land which is common in many places

Western moose (western canada moose shown here)

Canis lupus Occidentalis Northwestern wolf range

Heres a real limiter, Dall sheep

Northwestern whitetail dark blue

Also the south central plains whitetail are more commonly called Texas whitetail deer

Eastern wild turkey range in blue, although ill try finding one fir canada

[mighty flume]

So there is a reddit post showing something from part of the map that can be found in large numbers in British Columbia ||(Totem Poles)|| if that helps with justifying the recommendations to correct the turkey & white-tailed deer subspecies

[humble ridge]

Well there you go

[cobalt oyster]

Idk how this relates but idc thats cool

[cobalt oyster]

Exactly

They js pulling excuses

[cobalt oyster]

Same

[cobalt oyster]

Exactly

Thats all they gotta do