Nerf Blue-Shell's Sidebumps to Normal Knockback Instead of Groundpound/Removal (ONLY)

[silk gazelle]

I can play 2.0 mobile version you down?

Half joking

[upbeat nacelle]

i cant rn though

[worthy robin]

hai bandana :'3

how much didjya backread? ^v^'

[spark raptor]

nice
-# can normal people be granted the permission to use polls? If it becomes an occasional problem you could just have a “poll-banned” role just like lfg-ban, suggestion-ban, etc…

[stray portal]

to CREATE polls?

heeell pls no

[spark raptor]

why is that such a bad idea

[upbeat nacelle]

nobody here is normal

[pearl blaze]

we used to be able to make polls but they made for useless stuff

like brainrot

[worthy robin]

pushes up more important topics with something like "what should i have for dinner today?"

[calm pagoda]

i think they mean in normal chats

not like

the polls channel

[stray portal]

and then everyone will start taking them less serious- ohh i see

[worthy robin]

oooh icic :3

yeah thats fine :3

[stray portal]

sure fine ok

[pearl blaze]

Wasnt that still a problem

[restive carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/choro-crying-purple-alan-becker-stick-figure-gif-17977771132756412562

[pearl blaze]

I have clear memory of a staff revoking poll rights because people used to make useless polls that pinged people

like mr. yoshi ex-member did sometimes

[worthy robin]

that pinged people?

[worthy robin]

? :'3
you oki? :'3

[pearl blaze]

Yeah

[worthy robin]

why not just time em out for pinging people :'3

[pearl blaze]

I dont remember if you could make the poll not ping

[upbeat nacelle]

new poll: wall jump or wall kick?

i know the answer btw

[stray portal]

oh it's bc of the "poll ended with [...] winning!" isn't it

hrm...

[silk gazelle]

Wall jump. Untill you do a no jumping challenge, then you switch to wall kick.

[upbeat nacelle]

wait is there a differnce?

[silk gazelle]

No I mean the way you say it

[upbeat nacelle]

oh

[calm pagoda]

ah yea this

[restive carbon]

Yesn't. 😭 🙏 Sorry for getting so triggered if I did. I honestly swear I blacked out for half the conversation. Genuinely don't know why I'm so dedicated to this.

[calm pagoda]

back when they introduced it

it did a force ping on everyone in the server when polls ended

idk if they removed that tho

[stray portal]

that's amazing that they made them do that

[upbeat nacelle]

emotinal attatchmeant

[spark raptor]

They did

[restive carbon]

tbf, MVLO has been my favorite game for around a year now

[silk gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/murderdrones-n-chocy-milk-gif-10651783133533381937

[restive carbon]

I love this game so freaking much.

[silk gazelle]

Glass of choccy milk always help

[upbeat nacelle]

thanks

[spark raptor]

Dont know how polls were before but this is what they are now

[worthy robin]

i mean youre just passionate it seems :3

[spark raptor]

Doesnt ping the participants either, just says “poll ended, (Option) won”

[restive carbon]

This and 1.7 ground pounds it seems are my biggest "passions" I guess. 😭 🙏

then again, this convo just dragged a lot
1.7 ground pounding is something I'm actually way more passionate about
thankfully if got reverted to how it was before

[upbeat nacelle]

good to have hobbies

[pearl blaze]

what does 1.7 groundpounds mean

[restive carbon]

2.0 changed ground pounds to where you can't ground pound right about anything. I HATED this. 😭
This made getting up spots like that wall jump spot in Sky incredibly difficult and frustrating.
The recent 2.1 update changed it back.

[pearl blaze]

a

b

c

d

[restive carbon]

e

[silk gazelle]

https://discord.com/channels/956396409731551263/1429601473800568952

I think it's this? Idek

[restive carbon]

yeah

there were other ground pound 1.7 stuff

but the not being able to ground pound right above a surface was the biggest annoyance for me personally

The other thing I hated about 2.0 was the new comboes. I'm still mixed on it but I've mostly adapted.

[silk gazelle]

That annoyed me too dw your not alone on that one.

[restive carbon]

1K+ 💀

[spark raptor]

Vin’s mountain map has 2.2k which i think is the record

this one is probably 2nd to 4th place

[upbeat nacelle]

wow

[stray portal]

insane message to star ratio

[upbeat nacelle]

and its the same like, 10 people

for the messagees

[worthy robin]

eheh!, yeah maybe with 1k more messages itll have 60 stars! ;3

[pearl blaze]

propeller buff suggestion

[upbeat nacelle]

or none

[upbeat nacelle]

thanks for the heads up

[pearl blaze]

bbbruhhhh

[stray portal]

watch out

[worthy robin]

@grizzled loom

[silk gazelle]

Props to Boba for carrying the argument, big commitment
Props to hams for carrying the other side of the argument, big commitment

Congratulations guys

[pearl blaze]

props to me for renaming the thread to cause confusion

[silk gazelle]

The exact opposite of props for windows because he is good at doing anything but staying on task

[pearl blaze]

the fact its the guy who made the suggestion is funny

[silk gazelle]

Props to lite for being my friend, that really cool of him

[silk gazelle]

Late game your brain got lobotomized or something

[pearl blaze]

Props to pluh for pointing out props

[spark raptor]

Props to pluh for being High Quality

[silk gazelle]

Ah you got me again lite hahahahahhahahaha

[upbeat nacelle]

props to me because i am cool

[spark raptor]

i cant tell if you’re being sarcastic

[worthy robin]

props to pluh for callling out where the props were, team hunters would have never won otherwise :3

[upbeat nacelle]

team hunters?

[silk gazelle]

No I'm not I promise lol that made my day

[worthy robin]

-# making a prophunt reference!

[upbeat nacelle]

ah

[silk gazelle]

Oh wait that was clever hams

Props to hams again, clever jokes

[restive carbon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvlpfoJFDE

LOL This thread (and I) is in this video.

It also shows (in the later half) how cheesy it is. Idk if Snayp likes the update or not. But either way, the video is of course a banger (as his videos always are 🔥 💪).

wait nvm he said his opinion... and uh... yeah... ofc I agree lol

-# How did I just now realize that Snayp has already talked in this thread?

[gaunt pagoda]

The most annoying part is that it hits from below as well

(but it's a bug right?)

[pearl blaze]

thats the finest one imo lol

A shell crushed you giving GP knockback... kinda fair

[storm plume]

https://tenor.com/view/cow-hit-moo-moomoo-moo-moo-gif-9612186007195770192

[restive carbon]

I don't mind the below hit as much as the broken side hit.

It's so bad in FFA. 😭 🙏

[restive carbon]

What in the Moo Moo Mario Kart Wii?

[silk gazelle]

He says "great update overall" around the 1:19 mark

[restive carbon]

yes... overall 😭 🙏
he said at the end he thinks the side hits are broken

[restive carbon]

once again, everyone I ask in game still agrees with me

[restive carbon]

#BlueShellBusted

I got a double kill in Grassland with the blue shell side bump too but the replay system is bugging or something cuz it won't load. :[

[pearl blaze]

It seems like its a problem in ffa

because it hits so many players unintentionally, so thats what makes it annoying

[restive carbon]

That's exactly it! It's broken in FFA. 1v1s sure, they are fine. Vin proved that to me. lol But I feel like the majority play FFA. NOT saying something should be changed just because of one way how people play. But it's not like reverting it back or nerfing it would hurt 1v1s whatsoever.

[worthy robin]

every time you post about that im gonna get 3 clips for the contrary ;3

lemme dig thru our games and get clips from those first,,,

[pearl blaze]

bro

1100 MESSAGES??

[frank anvil]

#Blueshellgaming

[restive carbon]

We gained another star! I'm totally not coping rn.

[restive carbon]

wild

[restive carbon]

It genuinely just seems like you are trying to do this to tick me off and keep an overpowered change in the game. Idc if it's not great in 1v1s. It's a problem in FFA and even casuals are commenting on how broken it is.
And if your clips are just "lol I ground pounded blue shell" then that literally doesn't prove anything. You can do that in any version of the game. The point is showing how OP the side bumping is. That's what my clips are for.
You are making this thread miserable because you will NOT listen to anything I say nor others that dislike the change. Your main argument is that the blue shell has a weak point. I do not care. That doesn't make the side bump any less OP.

[restive carbon]

DOWN WITH THE BLUE SHELL SIDE BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

If I get more clips of even more outrageous kills, I'll make a part 2... but I think you get the picture. In FFA, it's broken... and I'm not going to be talked into otherwise.

[gaunt pagoda]

I couldn't agree more

[storm plume]

Why do I find that so satisfying 😭

[earnest sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-duck-cry-sad-sad-duck-crying-duck-hq-gif-15112898992734870208

[silk gazelle]

Dang, looks like we're not really getting through to you. Here's a friendly reminder:
If something has a weak point, it is not op. If you do not care about that, then you are being very stubborn. The new update gave you less opportunities to punish/approach blueshell, while also giving it more opportunities to punish/approach you. It made it an actual threat. But in the opportunities where you can approach it, the reward is usually very good (3 stars or more). Just because you can't approach it in every circumstance, doesn't mean it's op, have patience when fighting blueshell.
In FFA, I admit, it's harder to find those opportunities since there are more threats around. Blueshell has always been a menace to FFA iirc. It still possible to hit it tho, for example: on grass, if you are in a FFA match and you see a blueshell running around, wait for it at the stairs or platforms, and gp it when it gets close. You have to be actually looking out for it.
For the video: the clips where blueshell hits from above is actual bs. Yes, that is going to change, it's a bug.
-# also waow I'm in there, hi me
For all of the other clips though, it's just people not approaching blueshell well, and getting punished for it. Most of the people are just running straight into the shell blindly lol. What did you expect? This is like someone approaching fire in a bad place and getting combo'ed for it.

The sentence in bold is important btw, keep that in mind

Like, look back at the video and have in mind that they are not approaching blueshell correctly and it shines a whole new light on it.

[potent gull]

Hm
I mostly agree but like
It's really annoying to not being able to just push the crouching blueshell, you have to get stomped for it, so it's just too risky to do anything about them

But again with the fix it might changes how that works. We could probably just stop debating until the fix and then see if it's still a problem.

Also I could argue that for less experienced players it's quite unclear what you are supposed to do about a crouching blueshell, and how to approach it.

[silk gazelle]

Hmm, good idea

[silk gazelle]

It's been so long I don't even remember how I figured that out

[gaunt pagoda]

If people really want to keep the sidebump, I guess you can make the blueshell max height jump 1 or 2 tiles less than regular players. This way the counter is easier.
This would def be a controversial change though. Especially because it would remove an OG feature (less height), in response to an OG feature (sidebump).

[potent gull]

Not so og
#mvl-discussion message

[gaunt pagoda]

Ok it may be a bug, but it's still part of the original game

[potent gull]

Only for Mario.. ?

[silk gazelle]

A nerf I thought would be good is to make only 3/4 of the blueshell do the kb and the other 1/4 be like if you jumped on it so that it feels less cheesy. but maybe that's just me

[gaunt pagoda]

That's actually hilarious

So Mario had 2 advantages in the OG, interesting

[gaunt pagoda]

Hmm this + the hit from below fix, and it may be playable

I'd rather have it fully gone, but if we're looking for a compromise, why not

[fickle yew]

yeah!

for example..
the hammer suit before 2.1 was over powered (even though most of you didn't say anything about that) because there was no clear weakness and it wasn't really that fun to fight against
the blueshell clearly has a weakness, but a lot of people are used to its weakness being way more easy to use because of mvlo's new and improved additions to make the blue shell not that good before
now its a little too strong now cause of the small new mvlo additions rather than the accuracy additions but I think generally it's pretty manageable like the fire flower mostly if you know what you're doing.

also @restive carbon we are not trying to ragebait you, mess with you, play tricks on you, nothing like that..
we're literally just explaining our points!
and you're just really dedicated on forcing this out of the game

[fickle yew]

yeah but they would definitely be able to learn a bit easily what to do next time after getting bumped
as long as the bugs are fixed too of course
-# though you say that yet how do you even expect a less experienced player to handle the blueshell starman most of you all love????

even I still struggle with actually controlling the blueshell starman
it's way too much and not good for a game like this where going fast isn't a big priority usually

[potent gull]

... what would you learn? Not to approach it?

Also I am one of the first to call out about the starman blueshell being too fast

[worthy robin]

-# tysm pluh,,,

[worthy robin]

what do you learn about fire in most situations?

to not approach it :'3

actually shell makes approaching fire much more viable if you do it right!

[potent gull]

It's not that simple. Also i'm genuinely asking. Dealing with a crouching blueshell is not easy, and even if you manage something, it happens quite often that you touch them before your gp starts, which throws them away lol

[fickle yew]

to approach it differently next time
you can probably figure out easily enough that the top of the blueshell is a weak spot you can use to throw them off or stomp them. once you understand it the blueshell isn't that hard to deal with (I'm not Super good at mvlo like you are apparently so I doubt it's something only really good players can learn) aside from the minor bugs and the hyper speed and slope speed making it way too difficult to tell whether it's crouched or not because it's going at normal or a faster speed..

I never knew that you were the first, I always thought it was too fast from the moment it was added into the game but since EVERYBODY agreed it was super good and I just didn't care enough about mvlo at this point to try and argue about it with them

it's probably just a bit hard to combat the blue shell crouch since mvlo has had the blueshell be changed from the original mvl to be kinda bad in mvlo this whole time and it suddenly being actually good like the fire flower now is something people weren't ready for after like years of it being mid or bad

[gaunt pagoda]

You (many people in this thread) should stop saying to "approach it differently". It's almost never worth it to do so anyway. The better option is to avoid it at all cost in its current state.

That's why we're trying to discuss a solution for the next update

There's clearly an issue atm, that needs to be fixed.

[silk gazelle]

I still think this is a good compromise

[fickle yew]

what do you mean almost never worth it?

[gaunt pagoda]

Isn't it obvious? Not worth it to attack... because 90% of the time you will end up in knockback (and probably comboed and lose your powerup, and lose at least 2 stars in the process).
Don't tell me to be more cautious, because this has the same meaning as "Approach it differently".
On some maps it is easier to "approach differently", and have some kind of highground. Less easy on other maps.

I would argue the blueshell is somewhat fine. However there's not a day passing without somebody saying "blueshell op". Something IS wrong atm

[fickle yew]

it's not really obvious as I've never seen it as that bad of a punishment compared to something like the ice flower on like two maps where you just die.
most times I get attacked and I lose a star and that's it, maybe in big lobbies it can get a bit worse but it's usually nothing that bad and it's really common in big lobbies to get hit and then hit by another random person, the one unfair thing about it is the bug where you get side bumped when you're on top of the shell which does indeed suck

you can make the same point with the fireflower since you can steal like 5-3 stars with a perfect combo and also say it's not worth it to approach because of that
even though both scenarios only really happen 20% of the time where you lose like, everything which is what you describe to be what happens almost EVERYTIME when that's pretty rare unless you're on dangerous maps that will indeed kill you a lot for mistakes

I just don't get what you mean..

[restive carbon]

"The new update gave you less opportunities to punish/approach blueshell, while also giving it more opportunities to punish/approach you."

Listen, I understand that. But my whole point is that their (the blue shell's) opportunaty and punish is too OP.
You don't need to be jumping in place. You can mix up your approach. I mean heck, you can walk over and immediately crouch jump into someone that's landing to get a cheap kill. I still think it's buff.

[spark raptor]

-# aren’t we jst restating points
-# didnt ipod want to make a poll channel over this

[restive carbon]

I'm gonna use this Little Mac example but actually give it a fair comparison.

Let's say that current Little Mac is like how the blue shell was in the previous update. Everyone being fine with him.
But let's say that literally today, Nintendo updates Smash Ultimate and buffs Little Mac's side special. Now it has stronger kb and can easily kill others at like 30%-40%!
Now let's assume that because of this update, many fans in the community dislike it. They see it as too OP and cheap.
But now pretend that one fan (you or Pluh!) says something like "Erm actually, Little Mac still has weaknesses still and you just need to change up ur style and dodge attacks. lol"
Like I DON'T CARE! It doesn't matter if he has weaknesses. The Side B buff is just unnessacary and can get stupid kills. Even if you can avoid it and time things up, the attack is still broken.

THAT... IMO... is a fair comparison. I swear you are going to pull up to this chat and say that it's not. 🥀

[calm pagoda]

can yall stop blabbering about fuckign smash bros lol

blue shell is good when you dont respect it

the powerup based around physically attacking can do physical attacks? omg shocker

[worthy robin]

when 2.0 came out you guys complained for a month :'3

[gaunt pagoda]

About what? Be more precise :'3

[worthy robin]

everything!
apparently the kard kb and combos "killed 1v1s" and everyone maintained that opinion for like a month,,,

[gaunt pagoda]

Also if you don't have concrete proof of me complaining, this topic isn't relevant

[worthy robin]

doesnt matter if you were the one complaining!

your point is that everyone is!

[gaunt pagoda]

It did make 1v1s more campy

It required some adaptation, and 1v1s were more fun in 1.7, even with a bad netcode

[worthy robin]

I would argue the blueshell is somewhat fine. However there's not a day passing without somebody saying "blueshell op". Something IS wrong atm

[worthy robin]

-# oh so you still maintain that 1.7 combat is more fun?

[gaunt pagoda]

Do you want a screenshot of every instance in which somebody said blueshell is OP? I could make a book out of it

[worthy robin]

i never said that what you said wasnt true!!! : ' 3

[gaunt pagoda]

In the perfect conditions (no ping, no tp, no nothing), yes kinda

[restive carbon]

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!
I hate the stupid Little Mac example.
I just tried to do it once to finally shut it down because vin keeps bringing it up.

[restive carbon]

That's also how I'm feeling. I say something and then later someone says something like I DIDN'T BRING UP THAT POINT 5 MINUTES AGO!

[restive carbon]

thanks btw I like editing :D

[worthy robin]

because its a good example ;3

[spark raptor]

is it really worth it then
we very rarely convince anybody in these suggestion threads

[restive carbon]

mine is way closer to the situation

[silk gazelle]

Btw boba we were supposedly agree to disagree on this

So it's all chill

[spark raptor]

but like what if we all just played smash brothers
-#

[worthy robin]

if little macs side-b got buffed and did insane amounts of damage like that nothing would change!
he'd still be bad, barely anybody would get hit by it, and he'd still suck in 1v1s :'3
even without this buff little mac is still overpowered in ffa that wouldnt change anything :'3

[silk gazelle]

Jahdnsekxksks fodaemxolsnjzkexjf rifnff rmnbhjnlsjm

[restive carbon]

yeah but I'm still unsatisfied because if feels like you guys have convinced a few people and now ipod thinks it's very mixed
I honestly think the people who like the change ARE the loud minority
it's frustrating as someone who likes FFA because if it doesn't get changed, I'm gonna have to deal with bullcrud kills.

[silk gazelle]

I wish we could fkjn close this thread for like 3 weeks!!!!!!!!

[pearl blaze]

Neutral ending

[silk gazelle]

Turn it off I don't wanna exist anymore!!!!!!!

[restive carbon]

Also this.
It really did feel like most people agreed with me.

This is what I meant by the Twilight Zone. lol

[pearl blaze]

Wait what happened to my message

DID I DELETE IT?? 😭 😭

[restive carbon]

?

[gaunt pagoda]

No you have bad internet

[restive carbon]

Then don't comment here.

[silk gazelle]

Is there any way to shut down a thread temporarily

[worthy robin]

ik pluh,,,
even with that huge explanation somehow nobody in the post changed their minds somehow,,,
:'3

[worthy robin]

ipod can do that ye :3

[spark raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/fact-check-kellanrockssoccer-gif-2569170256995872124

[silk gazelle]

PLEASE

[restive carbon]

I don't understand why you guys are so invested in keeping something that ruins FFA but barely affects 1v1s. (It does for 1v1s but only a little I guess.)

[gaunt pagoda]

Why, what if we wanna argue

[restive carbon]

^

[worthy robin]

"if you arent willing to argue with the brick wall then let the brick wall keep convincing people of something you disagree with" :'3

[restive carbon]

You are the brick wall in my view.
At least I actually slightly changed my view when you destroyed me in 1v1s.

[silk gazelle]

How do I even respond to thiiiiiuss 😭

[spark raptor]

oo bricks are delicious

[silk gazelle]

Ipod please I beg turn it off

[gaunt pagoda]

Two brick walls will not affect each other 🗿

[restive carbon]

You haven't changed your view at all with anything I say. You ignore it and bring up a point I made later like I didn't answer it already. YOU are more of a brick wall than me.

[pearl blaze]

What about we wait until the next patch to see if fixing the collisions will make it better

[spark raptor]

Windows is always right

[restive carbon]

I hate that you are right.
I want to argue. 😭 🙏

[silk gazelle]

Yes, yes yes yes ye ssyes yes please

[gaunt pagoda]

Agreed, the very annoying part is the bugs, let's see if it's still OP afterwards

[restive carbon]

mainly because I feel like I'm losing my mind

I want to get to the bottom of this.

[silk gazelle]

Sorry guys I've lost it

[restive carbon]

But maybe there is no bottom.

[worthy robin]

i changed my mind before about this too!!!
i used to hate the blushell change and i changed my mind because i fought ame with it and i saw it from a different lens!

but now that i know its not a problem i can say with confidence you are wrong :3

[worthy robin]

also yes :'3

[restive carbon]

Dang. I'm spreading my craziness to others. 😭 🙏

[spark raptor]

what did you lose?

[restive carbon]

okay but please please please play a bunch of FFA

[worthy robin]

i did :3
never saw it as an issue :'3

[restive carbon]

you play 1v1s, I play FFA.
it barely affects 1v1s, but it makes FFA really frustrating

[spark raptor]

Maybe possibly true

[worthy robin]

i played ffa a lot!

[restive carbon]

okay then you should watch my montage I made because I do have moments that are annoying and I DO see it as an issue

[worthy robin]

never saw it as an issue :3

[silk gazelle]

Suddenly I'm back.
7/10 joke

[restive carbon]

The montage in question.

[worthy robin]

okay what do you want me to say other than stop autopiloting and improve ;3

[gaunt pagoda]

I feel like nothing is ever an issue to you, have you ever criticised a change? I'm just curious, not trying to discredit you or anything

[restive carbon]

Again, that's just disrespectful to say because many were trying in these clips. They just got caught with something that obviously is cheesy and OP.

[worthy robin]

yes!!!

i find many things as issues, and ill usually come to a conclusion on whether or not theyre better or worse!

[restive carbon]

You haven't even replied to my Little Mac example... which I think is very good.

[worthy robin]

i started off hating blueshell but i learned it has weaknesses even in ffa and so its not a problem :3

[worthy robin]

i did :3

[restive carbon]

O_O

[worthy robin]

:'3

[restive carbon]

I don't see a reply.

[gaunt pagoda]

0:27 Hey that's me! 😂

[restive carbon]

You just did to ipod.

[worthy robin]

,,,

[restive carbon]

Like imagine if I said that to you after getting cheesed by Little Mac's new side B. 😭 🙏

[spark raptor]

but like what if we nerfed blue shell’s side bumps 🤤

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-water-bottle-bottle-head-gif-27083229

[silk gazelle]

Wait y'know what? Good call

[worthy robin]

i would try to work around it instead of making a forum post and complaining for 300 messages :'3

[gaunt pagoda]

Is that ragebait

[restive carbon]

Okay? But it's still annoying when he lands a hit? It's needlessly OP. Ur just avoiding the buff! You keep sdaying nothing would change but that's just wrong!!! I get what you mean by it but it's still avoiding the FACT that the side B is too OP now.

[gaunt pagoda]

Sir, this is a Wendy's

[restive carbon]

I'm talking because I've gotten hit in ways I feel is unfair. I'm complaining about it because I feel like it ruins FFA.

I could say the same about you. Why are you chatting here? 😭 🙏

[spark raptor]

how about a blue shell toggle 🤤

[restive carbon]

ipod don't lock chat. this is fun but also frustrating at the exact same time

[spark raptor]

no im just messing around

[calm pagoda]

because it's a completely bad-faith argument
what if mvlo was a completely different game and genre and hypothetically they buffed one character's move, lets also completely disregard the existing stats around the character is balanced around and lets also assume everyone in this hypothetical agrees with me that it's bad

[worthy robin]

its annoying when little mac lands any hit : ' 3
super armour side smashes are hard to deal with imo, deal insane shield damage and hard to punish,,,

wouldnt you agree that little mac forward smash:

• kills early,
• barely any endlag,
• destroys shields,
• safe on shield
  is an OP move?

[stray portal]

"fact" my brother in christ vin is literally sharing their opinion
(my unnecessary comment is not helping out anyone)

[calm pagoda]

i will delete any mentions of smash bros from now on

fucking shut up about it

[restive carbon]

I know the comparison doesn't line up exactly but I'm talking to vin about it. He only compares it to Little Mac for some reason so I'm trying to give him his own medicine.
I personally would NOT be making the Little Mac comparison at all.

[spark raptor]

welcome to the unnecessary comment club, how unnecessary comment are ya

[worthy robin]

oh dear :'3

[restive carbon]

That's what I've been saying. 😭

[spark raptor]

😭

[restive carbon]

I said fact in my example. Not his.

[worthy robin]

well,,,

[spark raptor]

reminds me

[restive carbon]

Thanks vin for making ipod yell at me because you wouldn't stop bringing up that stupid character forcing me to respond. 🥀

sorry I'm heated

[worthy robin]

ipod didnt yell at you he yelled at both of us : ' 3

[restive carbon]

eh true

[worthy robin]

it was a good comparison, but you not realising the point made me realise,,,

[restive carbon]

I-

bruh

[worthy robin]

you wont get any example is it doesn't fit your narrative :'3

[pearl blaze]

Power-Up toggles, yes, please. We need it

[worthy robin]

so its not worth it to talk here!!!

[spark raptor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1448406213262835804/1489425215929974784/IMG_3955.gif

[worthy robin]

byby :3

[restive carbon]

I think comparisons shouldn't be made honestly.

And we should just directly talk about it.

[spark raptor]

oh lets not add gasoline to the fire

-# add gasoline please

[restive carbon]

But if ur leaving, then bye. It was... nice?... chatting with you? 😭 🙏 Agree to disagree on this I guess.

[spark raptor]

this was such a nice and productive conversation

[restive carbon]

😭 🙏

If we can take anything away from this... I think we all agree that the top doing that weird bug hit should be removed.

[pearl blaze]

LITE! ARE YOU /J OR /S??

[restive carbon]

As for me and many others in MvLO, I stand by removing or at least nerfing the blue shell side bump because it's way too OP and cheesy in FFA.

[restive carbon]

He's being sarcastic.

[spark raptor]

twas a reference boba

[restive carbon]

oh ur referencing

😔 🙏

[pearl blaze]

Anyways how about we take a break from this and check out other suggestions!

[spark raptor]

this was very entertaining

[pearl blaze]

1302th message btw

[spark raptor]

getting close to vin’s mountain stage

[restive carbon]

I would say that I could keep going... but I'm burnt out.

Well not really. LOL 💀

If anyone wants to bring up an argument about the blue shell's side bump being ✨ perfectly balanced ✨ then let me know so I can argue my case. Or don't, Idc.

[pearl blaze]

sure

[restive carbon]

I swear I'm not usually this agressive. This thread is just making me go crazy.

[pearl blaze]

i think its perfectly balanced rn

[restive carbon]

😭

It's funny how you made this thread.

[worthy robin]

if you said yourself that you arent gonna change your mind,,, thats not arguing thats preaching :'3

[restive carbon]

My arguing would be for the other person to change their mind.
Changing my mind is very unlikely but I wouldn't say it's at 0%.

[worthy robin]

ofc ofc ;3

[calm pagoda]

How about y'all do something constructive

Make up a set of polls

[restive carbon]

Like talk about Smash?

JOKES

JOKES

ipod is cracking his knuckles

[spark raptor]

-# polls are still not allowed

[restive carbon]

I'm scared guys

[calm pagoda]

For me to post

[restive carbon]

he's at my door

[calm pagoda]

I'm thinking like

[restive carbon]

oh

[calm pagoda]

"How balanced 1-5 way too weak / balanced way too strong"

[restive carbon]

This thread can become a dumping ground for cheesy clips from the blue shell side bump.

[worthy robin]

how would that be constructive,,,? ^v^'
itd just make the the side that wins say "haha i proved you wrong in one aspect" and no matter which way the poll goes its not like thats making anybody actually change their mind : ' 3

[restive carbon]

oooo

[spark raptor]

the poll will be the final verdict (probably), not for convincing anyone

thats how its constructive, it envokes change

[calm pagoda]

"How should it be nerfed if too strong; weaker knockback , min speed requirement, no change needed, etc"

[spark raptor]

compromise

[restive carbon]

I give it a 3.5? It's annoying but doesn't ruin the game... but in FFA... I mean... it kind of does.

[calm pagoda]

I'm saying y'all decide on questions to ask and I'll post them with a ping

Don't actually answer here

[worthy robin]

letting everyone who isnt a gamedev be a gamedev isnt a good idea,,,

remember when 2.0 came out?

imagine back when it came out, we had a poll to revert it back to exactly how 1.7 was but with the better netcode :'3

we'd be in hell rn,,,

[restive carbon]

I personally say revert it (aka remove it) but I don't think that's happening so I'd say weaker knockback.
I just don't think touching the side from a slow or non-moving shell warrents the player getting flung like they got groundpounded. Make them get hit like a player jumped on their head type of bump. That's my opinion at least.

[calm pagoda]

.

[restive carbon]

oh

[calm pagoda]

.

[worthy robin]

,,,

[calm pagoda]

It's not binding

Just getting a general feel

[worthy robin]

, , ,

[restive carbon]

Should the blue shell side bump do nothing, act as a bump, or stay as a groundpound fling?

[pearl blaze]

It's not deciding its just gathering feedback from everyone

[restive carbon]

I honestly kind of lean toward the bump now. 👀

sorry no answers here

[pearl blaze]

How often do you experience blue shell's sidebumps/How strong do you think blue shell currently is?
(Like the host bans poll)

[restive carbon]

don't react with a crying. 😭 I meant like NOT the ground pound, just a small bump like someone got hit on the head
Edit: sorry

[stray portal]

keep in mind the polls are targeted towards the people who play the game. which are the most important group of people for the questions the polls are trying to resolve. you shouldn't be left out from having an opinion on the game that you play just bc you haven't made a game yourself before

think of it as doing "let's see what people want -> push an update" instead of the current "push an update -> let's see what people like -> revert the update"

[restive carbon]

I feel like the polls are gonna want to keep the ground pound side bump affect... which to me makes no sense. Everyone I talk to in the actual game dislikes it. O_O

[stray portal]

then if everyone dislikes it, the poll will reflect that

[worthy robin]

ofc!!!
but lets again consider what would happen if everyone gave their feedback on if 2.0 had a better combat system than 1.7 :'3

of course majority of the people who play who are going against the strong players capable of abusing these systems will say the new fireflower too overpowered!!!

[calm pagoda]

That's why I'm doing it weeks after the release instead of immediately

[restive carbon]

it feels like people in this server have joined a bandwagon of sorts to keep the horribly OP change. Idk... I think I'm going crazy

[calm pagoda]

Or people just disagree with you

[worthy robin]

snayp did maintain that 2.0 was worse even after like a month,,,

[calm pagoda]

It isn't some grand conspiracy

[restive carbon]

Maybe. 😭 🏳️

[pearl blaze]

@potent gull Is this true

[stray portal]

why does the reaction bar in threads only appear sometimes

[spark raptor]

1. On a scale from 1-5, how strong is the current blue shell (1 being too weak, 3 being balanced, 5 being too strong)

2. If the knockback of shell sidebumps were reduced, how would the current balance change?
   A. It’d become perfectly balanced.
   B. It’d still be too strong.
   C. It’d become too weak.
   D. It wouldnt affect how strong it is enough.

3. How do you feel about the state of balance between all power-ups? (Non-invincibility, no mini mushroom)
   A. 1 or 2 are much stronger than the rest
   B. Relatively balanced between all power-ups.
   C. 1 or 2 are much weaker than the rest.

There’s my 3 polls @calm pagoda

[worthy robin]

oh awesome everyone removed their stars :3
finally we can put an end to this!

[stray portal]

how odd this needs to be studied

[restive carbon]

Again... the fact that we had THIS makes me feel like I woke up in a different timeline where now many people suddenly like the change.
Like it was HATED and I agreed then boom, I woke up and the polls show people thinking it's fine? But I guess the MvLO game itself is still in the other timeline because everyone I ask dislikes the change. I'm going insane.

[stray portal]

oh maybe it's bc the first message (the one that actually has the reactions) is too far up and unloaded?

anyway

[spark raptor]

Nah it just got deleted by the creator i think

Well i’ve done all i can do

[stray portal]

ohh the msg is gone TRUE... thx...

[worthy robin]

yes people hated it at first but got used to it :'3
thats possible yunno :3
its what i did!!!

[spark raptor]

vic can you watch my little nate for a couple of hours

[restive carbon]

What the frick.

[stray portal]

it's more common for people to send clips of something they don't like than of something that works just fine for them

yadda yadda vocal minority blah blah

[restive carbon]

Removing the stars was just unnecessary. 🥀

[stray portal]

i think polls can help smooth this "noise" out bc ppl can only vote once

[worthy robin]

[game suggestion]
i like this feature i just wanted to let you know that ^v^

[spark raptor]

vic i sent my 3 polls already

[worthy robin]

so they can vote while they arent used to it and cant take it back when they change their minds?

[restive carbon]

that's completely fair
but my hopes in the clips was to showcase how problematic it is. it wasn't about minority vs majority in that case

[spark raptor]

how do you like em #1490191464549060628 message

[restive carbon]

I need to start a movement.
#BlueShellBusted

[worthy robin]

-# not another maskskot,,,

[pearl blaze]

What's up with 3? it says for all power-ups, when the main focus is blue shell

[stray portal]

ah, let's imagine i said that about future polls for features yet to be implemented rather than retroactive ones like this situation here

[restive carbon]

WAIT, is that because he likes 1.7 more?

[worthy robin]

icic :3

[stray portal]

walking on a treadmill ass movement

[spark raptor]

2 for blue shell, a 3rd that isnt irrelevant

[stray portal]

sorry

[worthy robin]

no he just preached to everyone about his ideal version of the game and refused to change his mind :'3

[stray portal]

they're ok

[spark raptor]

what can i improve

[stray portal]

i'm not the right person to answer that sorry

[restive carbon]

ah I see. kind of like me 😭 🙏
at least I only do it with like 2 or 3 things I guess. Idk. I've never been this dedicated to a thread. prob just because I really disliked ur arguments and kept going and got more and more frustrated which made me more and more devoted

[worthy robin]

mmk mmk :3

[spark raptor]

Vin should become a lawyer

[restive carbon]

The only other thing I hated was the ground pound not working over a surface... and 2.0 comboes... but I have since leant to live with 2.0 comboes. as for the ground pound thing, I still hate it, but it was changed. 💪

[worthy robin]

the problem is that a lawyer cant change his mind :'3
i have changed my mind on blueshell, i used to hate it and now i dont because i realise its fine!!!

[restive carbon]

Zooble-

bruh

[worthy robin]

i couldnt imagine defending something i know to be false :'3

[restive carbon]

Zomble was talking for a while and vanished

dang

[spark raptor]

You can choose your own cases unless you’re a public defender

[pearl blaze]

Let's hope this lawyer isn't too good else the game might become 2 players max again 🥀

[worthy robin]

hes still here i think give em time :3

[restive carbon]

I thought Zomble was a girl. 😭 🙏

[pearl blaze]

zomble is a zombie

[restive carbon]

Who told me that information? 💀

[worthy robin]

right! but its not always about first impressions, i could start a case and then find out theyre a nutjob :'3

[spark raptor]

i thought vin, rosyrose, and enki were girls too at first

rosy is either i think idk

[restive carbon]

ROSY ISN'T?

oh

[pearl blaze]

bruh

[spark raptor]

plot twist: windows is a woman

[pearl blaze]

No females play mvl gng

[worthy robin]

notoss!

[pearl blaze]

u

[spark raptor]

“Females” 🥀

[pearl blaze]

doesnt count

hehehehehehe

[worthy robin]

hai zomble :3

^v^

[restive carbon]

Didn't someone say we should talk about other threads?
I have an idea. 😏 https://discord.com/channels/956396409731551263/1471302232308715755

[pearl blaze]

tomato

[restive carbon]

eh yeah it's better as an add-on

[real vector]

what has this thread come to

[pearl blaze]

add boomerang flower

[real vector]

😭

[spark raptor]

Everyone’s first mistake was taking this thread seriously past message 900

[fickle yew]

big text jumpscare incoming

[restive carbon]

send help

oh gosh

[spark raptor]

big text jumpscare

[stray portal]

...glup

[restive carbon]

👀💦

[spark raptor]

Windows and Enki jumpscare incoming

[restive carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-scared-bro-mark-philips-rdcworld1-i'm-afraid-i-don't-like-this-gif-17546107237132067615

[spark raptor]

RDC world

[worthy robin]

no youre not!
just restate your points after zomble sends his message ;3

[fickle yew]

okay
why and I mean WHY does this place suck at actually making decisions on even the smallest of things for the game, this kind of situation has happened far too many times I just can't help but say something at this point!! it's actually messing with me how something that could be good can easily be turned down by a loud enough majority just because it isn't what THEY think is good
or something as minor as this can go on for a whole week of back and forth while the game can't even decide what it wants to do at this point!!!
why does this happen with almost ANYTHING new that gets added that's just, different..
why can't people think about what made mvl work but instead of just considering it a buggy old mess that mvlo is superior to!?!?
I just don't like this place when it comes to stuff like this where big arguments happen over literally ANYTHING that doesn't align with a loud enough majority's idea of what mvlo should be??

I don't know why I felt like letting this out here out of all places I'm just sick of stuff like this happening because of the lack of an actual direction or goal with mvlo really because like five different ideas and visions of what mvlo should be worked on this and none of it meshes well together and I can FEEL it in the game itself...
don't respond to this message it'll move the topic of the thread too much, this is just for reading and moving on from only.
hi vin

okay @restive carbon keep talking about whatever you were gonna say

[pearl blaze]

boom :D

[spark raptor]

https://truthnuke.com/zomble

[pearl blaze]

i completely forgot abt this

[spark raptor]

had it archived

[restive carbon]

in all seriousness, and I want to be clear, I love MvLO, it's... quite literally... my favorite game... and it's been that way for over a year
I only get this devoted (and I rarely do) when there's something I find to be really annoying or OP. I understand ur frustration tho. I agree, this thread has gone on for too long

[pearl blaze]

still better than arguing about ball hands for hammer

[fickle yew]

this frustration comes from a lot more stuff about this game and the community not just this thread.

[spark raptor]

i think its cause we like mario 🤤

[restive carbon]

because of negativity like this, I've made sure that I've posted positive stuff here and there too. I don't want to be known as the guy who complains (even if it's just like 3-ish stuff, I get devoted lol)
so I've said stuff like Beach and Ghost House being awesome, loving the new 2.0 laglessness, etc.

[potent gull]

No
At least not generalized like this

I didnt like the gpc changes, iframe duration, some stuff like that

But all of 2.0? With the rollback netcode? All the bug fixes? No way

[worthy robin]

i moreso meant the fact that you thought it killed 1v1s,,,

[restive carbon]

Same here! 2.0 is pretty much objectively better than 1.7.
Just a few changes I disliked but yeah.

[worthy robin]

that you maintained for like a month :'3

[potent gull]

I slightly remember that
What was my point?

[restive carbon]

dang people really like 1v1s

makes sense ngl since the OG game is literally just that. Idk what I'm saying

[worthy robin]

that they were too campy :3
like, combos made approaching impossible n stuff,,,
but we just needed to get used to it thats all!

[potent gull]

Well it's true lol

[worthy robin]

well,,, would you say 1.7 1v1s were better or 2.0? :'3

[potent gull]

I like the combo system too much to not be biased

And the rollback netcode

[worthy robin]

right,,,
so polls on opinions 1 week after something is released might not be the way to go about it,,,

[potent gull]

Never said the contrary

[worthy robin]

ikik!

[potent gull]

It also means that I can at least change my opinion

[worthy robin]

im just saying thats why i brought up the whole "snayp maintained this thing" :3

never said you disagreed i just wanted to use that as a way to communicate that we need a lot of time to form opinions!

[potent gull]

Well to this day im still not wrong that it's campier

You get punished really badly for little mistakes

[calm pagoda]

knockback used to be a lot longer making comboing way too easy, it was reduced pretty majorly in 2.0.1/2 iirc.

[pearl blaze]

yup

[calm pagoda]

and I frames used to be shorter too

[potent gull]

It's still really campy, just play grassland 1v1
But I know it's just how the game is
To me it's flawed but changing that would mean changing a lot of things and having to rethink the combo system and etc
And i don't have a solution for it anyway

[restive carbon]

@worthy robin Not to beat a dead horse but I have one more comparison WITHIN MVLO that I'm genuinely curious to hear your opinions on.
Let's say that ipod updated the game and the propeller was reverted back to the 1.7 propeller... being super OP. Would you not find that annoying?
Sure it still has its weaknesses (like hammer suit) and you can still change up ur playstyle to avoid it, but it feels like an unnecesary buff and is frustrating especially in FFA.
This is how I view the blue shell side bump. Maybe you don't see it this way but I'm just wondering.

[pearl blaze]

thats a bad comparison

[restive carbon]

Dang.

Idk what is a good comparison anymore.

[storm plume]

i still wonder how the hell was propeller op? Isn't propeller considered worse than ALL other power-ups rn?

[silk gazelle]

We're still going. :')

[restive carbon]

1.7 propeller

[restive carbon]

just a question I just thought of

[storm plume]

yes, how was it op. explain please, im actually curious XD

[restive carbon]

oh it basically had no lag
you could go up and down super fast and the vertical movement was also faster

[silk gazelle]

We

[pearl blaze]

0.5 seconds cooldown before drilling
instant drill switch
faster fly

[storm plume]

ok, i can see why people hated it now

[restive carbon]

the propeller comparison isn't perfect since 1.7 propeller had more advantages then one simple blue shell side bump but that's the best comparison I could think of within MvLO

[worthy robin]

ive already said how i feel about something like this earlier in here :3
the reason why i think blueshell is fine right now is because it has extreme weaknesses but in exchange has a very strong attack, even with this strong attack, blueshell is locked into place and cant move freely, youre trading mobility for more protection and a better attack!!!

1.7 propellor and 2.0 hammer didnt really have glaring weaknesses,,,
this is exacerbated by the fact that 1.7s awful netcode made it impossible to hit propeller even when they landed-
propellor was spamable and you couldnt really hit people when they land because they were grounded for 0.001 seconds,,, it didnt really have a clear weakness,,,

[restive carbon]

alright 👍
maybe it wasn't the best comparison but that's what I thought of

(not alright as in I changed my mind 💀 😭 🙏 but I see ur side)

[worthy robin]

okioki :3

[upbeat nacelle]

wow all have been buisy while i was away

[restive carbon]

Okay so you can do the buff blue shell side bump with HYPERSPEED NOW?

Also the fact that the side bump when slowly moving overrides a fast moving blue shell and still hits them and flings them is insane to me.

Vin be like: "You should've reacted faster."

[calm pagoda]

can you get a video

that doesnt seem to be the case in the code order.

[restive carbon]

Kaboom!

[upbeat nacelle]

um... it doesnt?

if a running blue shell hits a non running one (even if it is moving at running speed), the non-running one gets their blue shell taken away

[gaunt pagoda]

Have a look at this

Explain now

The "running" blueshell just gets hit by the crouching one

[calm pagoda]

its impossible to tell

king boba fett has to send the replay

or record going frame by frame

[proud frigate]

Lugi exits blue shell

[upbeat nacelle]

I saw that too

@restive carbon Can you send the replay so I can see it?

like, not a recording, the actual replay file

[gaunt pagoda]

hmmm yeah that could make sense.

[proud frigate]

blue shell side bump interaction code comes after blue shell damage code

[upbeat nacelle]

I guess we wait for a replay for a difinitive answer

[restive carbon]

KABOOM!!!

And I'll ping @upbeat nacelle because why not.

[proud frigate]

yUP, Enki exited the shell.. for some reason

if he didn't he would've dealt damage

[restive carbon]

oh...

you didn't think I'd give up that easy... did you?

[proud frigate]

you were above the other player spinning in blue shell

[restive carbon]

dang

I thought it still counted.

But I guess it makes sense?

[pearl blaze]

this is yet again ti blame buggy collisions for

[proud frigate]

not really

it's just basic blue shell spinning behavior

if someone is spinning in blue shell and you're above them you stomp them out of it

[pearl blaze]

I cant tell if they were spinning or crouching

[restive carbon]

me? I'm crouch jumping

[restive carbon]

it just feels like a slow moving blue shell has more "power" than a fast moving blue shell
the only time I'd really want to use a fast moving blue shell now is if I want to damage someone
it's like moving slower is more powerful and useful now. I hate that. It's unintuative and weird.

[proud frigate]

even if you weren't tho

a spinning blue shell, aka attacking blue shell

if you're above them then you stomp them

they don't ignore the stomp like when crouching

you're above them in the clip you sent

[restive carbon]

yeah but I wasn't "stomping" them
if I wasn't in a blue shell and I hit the top of them, I would've just like bounced off of them
I feel like that should've happened because that makes sense

[proud frigate]

no you wouldn't

[restive carbon]

wait what

[proud frigate]

if you weren't in blue shell you would've stomped them, and they wouldn't bounce since they're in attack mode

yeah

if you're in attack mode while in blue shell you can get stomped on like normal, no hip drop needed

[restive carbon]

I thought jumping on top of a spinning blue shell just makes you bounce off them. Was that changed too?

I'm mixing everything up now. 😭 🙏

1,500+ messages is wild. I'm totally not to blame for that. 👀💦

[proud frigate]

what actually happens if two blue shells touch owo

is they both GO flying

[calm pagoda]

It should probably stomp instead, no?

[proud frigate]

?

[calm pagoda]

Like landing on someone's head while crouched in shell

Why does it do a hard thing and not a bounce

[restive carbon]

I personally don't like how much a slow moving blue shells seems to be able to fling someone... whether a side bump, that situation in the video above, etc.
I agree btw. 👀

[calm pagoda]

I also think it shouldn't be able to do it below like walking speed

[proud frigate]

it's a heavy ass shell landing on someone's head

[restive carbon]

So?

If you get hit by an anvil in Minecraft, are you gonna be mad it doesn't fling you 15 blocks? 😭 🙏

[proud frigate]

getting hit by a heavy anvil should do something different than a regular player

[restive carbon]

it does... when you are "initiating" it... by going fast

[proud frigate]

no, just be gravity

it has more mass thus more energy

[restive carbon]

I mean I'm not entirely against keeping the fling from getting hit by the shell below while it's slow moving.
I'm not a fan of it but it's better than the mere side of it doing it.

but it doing it to a fast moving blue shell user feels... wrong?

[calm pagoda]

Stomped on by shell Mario : light knockback
Stomped on by crouching shell Mario: hardest knockback possible

[upbeat nacelle]

maybe fast-moving is not specific enough

[proud frigate]

both players GO flying if they touch each other

[upbeat nacelle]

you can do the bump thing ans still move at running speed

[restive carbon]

I'm trying to look at it within the context of MvLO and how everything else works... and looking at how this situation would work. And... it feels unintuative. Blue shell slow moving side bump as a whole that is.
Idk. It's not super broken and OP as I once though, but it does feel weird and is annoyingly strong especially in FFA.

[proud frigate]

in FFA it's not strong tho

[wheat harness]

i'd be mad it's a broken anvil :clueless:

[proud frigate]

I don't know why people think FFA is like all players are clumped UP

maps are big enough that there isn't much clumping

[calm pagoda]

How is it not strong

[upbeat nacelle]

how is it strong

[silk gazelle]

Oh ,yeah, it definitely is stronger

Bigger crowd, unpredictability, more targets, lots of reasons

[calm pagoda]

Projectile immunity is so much more important with more enemies

[proud frigate]

I have yet to win a FFA match while only using Blue Shell, the lack of speed, combos and projectile doesn't really help you win

[upbeat nacelle]

I mean, Ive won matches without using power-ups at all

and only walking

so

[silk gazelle]

You can't win a 1v1 with only blueshell either lol

Well, at least, both are not likely to happen

[upbeat nacelle]

Actually i got banned from a lobby because I won without running

[wheat harness]

that doesn't mean it's not strong does it?

[silk gazelle]

Basically, it's more likely to hit your opponent if there are more opponents. That's one of many reasons

Your opponent might not even be focused on you because there are so many things to focus on in ffa

[upbeat nacelle]

I think thats it the more players there are, the more likely they are to be unskilled

but i see your point

[proud frigate]

it's more of a glass cannon imo, you get both strong and weak

[calm pagoda]

weak to what??

[upbeat nacelle]

stomp

other blue shell

blue shell > blue shell

[calm pagoda]

wow, stomps, the action everyone can get hit by

[upbeat nacelle]

but also other blue shell

[calm pagoda]

But blue shell is apparently bad and predictable so

[proud frigate]

preditability, hip drops, pits

[calm pagoda]

Pits????

[silk gazelle]

I see you point, but I do wanna mention that it is more likely you get stomped in blue shell since the only way you do dmg is by contact

[proud frigate]

yeah pits, you can't just adjust your speed to GO around it

if you do you have to leave your shell

[upbeat nacelle]

then your are more likey to hit one if they are so predictable

[calm pagoda]

Sorry but your argument sucks

[upbeat nacelle]

if both are predictable, then are they really?

[proud frigate]

does it? People often die due to Blue Shell's controls

[upbeat nacelle]

if you both predict the other correctly you change your actions acording to what you think the other will do, this being wrong

[silk gazelle]

I don't follow, can you explain further?

[proud frigate]

unliek Fire Flower where you can GO "WOOHOO, WATCH ME WALLKICK AND DO THIS AND DO THAT" Blue Shell you can't do that

[calm pagoda]

???

[upbeat nacelle]

WOOHOO I JUST SIT HERE AND JUMP

[calm pagoda]

You can literally just uncrouch for a millisecond

[proud frigate]

and then what?

[calm pagoda]

Walljump?

[silk gazelle]

True, but then what? The opponent will just back up and try again

[calm pagoda]

Then immediately crouch again?

[proud frigate]

you cannot crouch again after kicking tho

you have to land

[silk gazelle]

Oh sorry I didn't see notoss commant

[restive carbon]

It's stronger in FFA?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[proud frigate]

not really

[restive carbon]

trying to get someone in a 1v1 is harder what do you mean?

[proud frigate]

again, people think FFA is like "OH EVERYONE IS CLUMPED up IN ONE SPOT" when it isn't

[calm pagoda]

Honestly I don't get your argument notoss

Just because you can't be invincible for 100% of the match that means it's not op?

[wheat harness]

i see blueshell as a great powerup that gets worse the longer you use it
i've found it best as a threat, or a way to ignore typical defensive plays from others

[restive carbon]

I still don't know what hip drop means.

[calm pagoda]

Because sometimes you have to exit the shell to walljump?

[wheat harness]

they mean groundpound !!

[restive carbon]

oh lol

[proud frigate]

Blue Shell has drawbacks that other powerUPs don't have, you're nerfing your movement, sacrificing a projectile for defensive

[restive carbon]

So?

Doesn't make side bump ANY less powerful.

It's like you are dodging the whole point.

[proud frigate]

your opponent has to be dumb to run into you to get side bump

[restive carbon]

sometimes you can catch them off guard

[proud frigate]

it's not like a projectile where it's hard to react to it

[restive carbon]

stop saying the other person always sucks

that's a dumb argument

[proud frigate]

what are they doing running into you mindlessly?

You don't do that when your opponent has a fire or hammer

[restive carbon]

sometimes they aren't! sometimes you can catch them off guard

[calm pagoda]

Did you see the video tho?

Like the ffa on jungle clip?

Literally just walks in and hits like 4 people in rapid succession

[restive carbon]

sometimes it's very hard to avoid a blue shell
you can't claim the other person is always stupid

[restive carbon]

You talking to me or not_ss13? 🤔

[calm pagoda]

notoss

[restive carbon]

ah

[proud frigate]

that's cool

[upbeat nacelle]

??

[calm pagoda]

Please read the convo echo

[upbeat nacelle]

i did

[calm pagoda]

Then you should've seen the video that was posted 3 times

[upbeat nacelle]

where

[restive carbon]

Also, you guys say that I've been mindlessly arguing and don't change my mind on anything... and while I haven't changed my mind on the core of it all... I HAVE actually read your arguments and they have indeed changed how I think!
-Like Vin 1v1ing me showed me that blue shell side bump isn't as powerful as I thought in 1v1s. I still think it's annoying in FFA.
-Zomble actually convinced me to no longer call it OP. I now call it strong and annoyingly buff. Not OP.
-There was something else I don't remember. 💀 (I guess this convo about the clip above?)

But I feel like you guys are the wall I talk to sometimes. 😭 🙏 Don't call me a wall when I AM indeed listening. I can be stubborn I guess but I'm not being mindless.
Idk if this message fully relates to this current convo but I just wanted to point it about because people have kept calling me a wall and I'm a bit annoyed by it. I'm like... only like... a half wall. 💀

[proud frigate]

you can counter it easily tho if you know what you're doing

[restive carbon]

My guys... you can nitpick ANY clip ever.

[calm pagoda]

people using it bad doesn't make it not TOO GOOD for some players

[worthy robin]

just because you argue a lot doesnt entitle anybody to agree with you :'3
it is very likely youre just extremely unconvincing :'3

[proud frigate]

NudeGunray is not a bad player tho

he won that match we played

[restive carbon]

You can always take a clip and say, erm, the other player could've done this this and this.

[calm pagoda]

I didn't say that

I said they used it bad lol

If you use it good you're near unkillable

We nerfed propeller for WAY less

[proud frigate]

no you're not

[restive carbon]

sure sure and that's completely fair but I feel like some people are being hypocritical when they call me a mindless wall or whatever

[upbeat nacelle]

I hear your points, and yes, when It is used well, it can be difficult to deal with

I just feel that there are also ways to counter it

[calm pagoda]

There's one

Positioning

[restive carbon]

by the time someone lines up a ground pound, if they aren't quick enough, you can literally jump back up and fling them before their ground pound animation is done
it's a bit more tight than you all let on

[calm pagoda]

Which is also the counter to EVERY OTHER powerup

[upbeat nacelle]

exept other blue shells

[proud frigate]

that's a bug

[restive carbon]

that's fair
all I'm saying is that, even with its weakness, the blue shell side bump still feels powerful

[upbeat nacelle]

thats because it is powerful

but not op

[restive carbon]

like 1.7 propeller still has weaknesses, and you can point to any clip of someone using it and say the other person should've done this this and this, but it was still OP

the change was welcome. while I thought the nerf was too much at first, I'm fine with propeller how it is now 👍 much better than before

[upbeat nacelle]

I wouldent know

[restive carbon]

yeah 👆

[proud frigate]

everything's annoying in free for all, especially propeller

[upbeat nacelle]

and hammer

[restive carbon]

okay but the side bump feels especially annoying? Idk how to respond to that sentence exactly

[proud frigate]

by that logic we better remove Fireballs

fireballs are annoying af

[restive carbon]

I guess a better response is that you could say that everything is annoying, therefore, keep 1.7 propeller. Like no... that was especially annoying and powerful.

[proud frigate]

Blue Shell is powerful, but still nowhere near as powerful as fireballs

[restive carbon]

okay but now we go back to what feels correct and intuative in the context of this game
a fireball hitting you and slightly knocking you back makes sense
a blue shell merely touching you with its side flinging you 15 feet doesn't make sense

it feels wrong and is also annoying on top of that

[proud frigate]

just don't run into the blue shell

[calm pagoda]

look. it's been about 2.5 weeks since the change was added and there's still a lot more people who dislike it than like it. clearly there's a problem SOMEWHERE.

[restive carbon]

🥀

[calm pagoda]

saying "only bad players get hit by it" is disingenuous and a bad faith argument.

[restive carbon]

that's what I've been saying 😭 🙏

[proud frigate]

not everyone is GOing to agree to an idea

[calm pagoda]

people used to complain nonstop about the ice flower and since it's got nerfed it's quieted down to like a few per month at best

same with the hammer suit

[restive carbon]

I definitely wouldn't have put THIS much thought into this if it wasn't for Vin initially disagreeing with me and then us going back and forth. lol

[calm pagoda]

but now since they're your blue shell changes, everyone else is wrong?

like come on

[proud frigate]

so we make blue shell be a powerUP no one wants to pick UP?

[calm pagoda]

yes, blue shell is supposed to be the "physical attacking" based powerup but when the floor to entry is just "touch someone while crouched" to get a guaranteed star (due to the strength of the knockback)?

[restive carbon]

I've picked it up many times before this update.

[restive carbon]

Not just that, but a guaranteed kill many times if lined up correctly.

[proud frigate]

really?

I'd say people just accepted that the Ice Flower is annoying sometimes

it's been like that all through v1.7, through v2.0 until v2.0.4.1

[restive carbon]

I mean I do understand that the blue shell isn't the most powerful thing out there.
I understand wanting to keep this buff because it gives it more use.
The problem IMO is said buff/use because it feels weirdly powerful for an action that is... well... barely an action at all!

[calm pagoda]

ice was annoying because it was super easy to confirm a star grab / kill for doing something relatively simple

yes, you could just dodge the ice projectile because it was slow and predictable

but that didnt make it fun for when you did get hit

super easy to confirm a star grab / kill for doing something relatively simple
could just dodge [...] but that didnt make it fun
sound familiar?

[restive carbon]

Um... I might be dumb 💀 but once again, are you talking to me or notoss? 😭 🙏

[calm pagoda]

notoss

[restive carbon]

ah okay 🙏

[proud frigate]

and it's not still like this?

[calm pagoda]

except jungle, you cant confirm a kill without suiciding, no?

[proud frigate]

you don't have to suicide to kill

even in FFA I can do the near-suicide kill

Windows has done it to me in FFA multiple times

[calm pagoda]

i wouldnt consider that "super easy" for the average player

[proud frigate]

I dunno I dunno about FFA matches... I even tho I land a few side bumps here and there I still GOt pounded

[restive carbon]

Idk what to say about this clip. I'm not saying it's super OP (not saying that anymore). Just annoyingly strong for a small tap.

[proud frigate]

that's OK, other powerUPs have annoying aspects

[restive carbon]

It's not "OK" to me though.
That's the whole point of this suggestion thread.

[pearl blaze]

Yes, you lose a life/have risk of losing if you do it incorretly, so its a risk reward tech

[restive carbon]

That helps are argument though. lol
Blue shell side bump has no risk.

[calm pagoda]

Just annoyingly strong for a small tap.
exactly

[restive carbon]

Well with the exception of a ground pound from above. But that is for the blue shell always... and... pretty much anyone at any point in time besides starman, mega, and small stuff like that.

[proud frigate]

yes it does, blue shell side bump you have the risk of being hip dropped

fuck

I thought we were getting somewhere

but no

we've GOne FULL FUCKING CIRCLE

[pearl blaze]

Fire flower takes up to 6 stars gang

[restive carbon]

You have.

[proud frigate]

someone blocked me and told me to die over the fire flower

[restive carbon]

okay sorry I have too I guess 😭 🙏

ipod is bringing up some valid points tho

[proud frigate]

where is that for blue SHell

[silk gazelle]

this right here

[pearl blaze]

EVERYONE is running CIRCLES
Lets firstly wait for the patch and see if it feels better

[restive carbon]

Pluh... are you back on my side? 😭 🙏

[silk gazelle]

This is the main problem people have

[proud frigate]

hmm

if that's the issue

then I have an idea

we add UP the speed of the player running into the blue shell, and the blue shell player

[restive carbon]

Yes. Granted, we did get a bit further I think today. Like I said, ipod made some good points. We also started the convo today about something a bit different and new.

[proud frigate]

if the speed total is not above walking speed then the player who ran into the blue shell will recieve no knockback

[restive carbon]

I feel like that's just making it overcomplicated.

[proud frigate]

I mean nothing is simple

[calm pagoda]

thats how normal ground bumps work

[proud frigate]

exactly

[restive carbon]

wait really? nvm then

[proud frigate]

so we do the same for Blue Shell

[restive carbon]

or the side bump tho?

[proud frigate]

yeah for the side bump

[restive carbon]

it still feels................................................ weird

and most people are running at it fast already

[proud frigate]

you wont get bumped unless the blue sheller is GOing high speed into you, or you're running very fast into the Blue Sheller

but just lightly tapping it while GOing slower is no bump

[calm pagoda]

FP averageWalkSpeed = (marioAPhysicsInfo.WalkMaxVelocity[marioAPhysicsInfo.WalkSpeedStage] + marioBPhysicsInfo.WalkMaxVelocity[marioBPhysicsInfo.WalkSpeedStage]) / 2;
FP velocityDifference = FPMath.Abs(marioAPhysics->Velocity.X - marioBPhysics->Velocity.X);

if (velocityDifference > averageWalkSpeed) {
    // Bump

[restive carbon]

Still feels odd.

eh maybe actually not in that clip bad example

but most people are running fast into a slow moving blue shell

the side bump still feels strong for a mere tap
ground pound actually has power behind it. you wind it up. you go down fast.

[proud frigate]

if blue shell worked like this idea it'd work exactly like regular airbumping except the playre running into blue shell GOes flying back

[restive carbon]

they don't go in free fall

they also don't lose a star

[proud frigate]

no they still lose a star, but just tapping the blue shell wouldn't make them lose a star

[restive carbon]

it also makes sense

?

it does tho

with this new update

I'm going insane. Send help.

[calm pagoda]

they mean with this change, tapping a slow moving one will not lose a star

[proud frigate]

A runs into Blue Shell at "air bump speed" takes knockback, woohoo

B is blue sheller

[restive carbon]

so the blue shell side bump ONLY works if the other player is doing fast enough?
I mean... that feels like a half bandaid to the issue. Most people run into a blue shell fast and get flung. It still feels weird.
Honesty... you can make an argument that it SHOULD be like how it is in that video above! The other player just flies back but not knocked back into a free fall while losing a star.

[proud frigate]

I think it'd be weird if they DIDN'T get flung

[restive carbon]

or just... have it knock the player back a little

[proud frigate]

all other cases the player running into other player gets flung back with a lot of speed

[restive carbon]

So you think the game was weird up until this update?

I mean that aspect of the game?

[proud frigate]

why are they not getting flung back running into a blue shell

[silk gazelle]

People really aren't respecting blueshell at all. It's actually dangerous now, you can't just run into it like before. The clip around 20 second mark is kinda an example of that. They should have treated it like there was a fire flower up there. Don't approach.
I think people still haven't adjusted to the blueshell yet.

[calm pagoda]

you dont understand what notoss is saying lol

[proud frigate]

I dunno I dunno, I mean, ipod is REALLY REALLY happy, more than happy to nerf the Blue Shell

[restive carbon]

I guess not. 😭 🙏

[calm pagoda]

speed difference < walk speed = normal air bump
speed difference > walk speed = knockback

[restive carbon]

you mean revert it to how it was?

[proud frigate]

no

[restive carbon]

for the non-blue shell user going fast right?

[proud frigate]

I'm GOing outside

[restive carbon]

I think this convo has fried my brain.

[restive carbon]

good luck

I've heard rumors about this grass stuff.

I'm joking. Idk. 😭 🙏

[calm pagoda]

if the speed total is not above walking speed then the player who ran into the blue shell will recieve no knockback

[restive carbon]

So basically... remove shell side bump for slow moving blue shell user? 🤔

https://tenor.com/view/burning-office-spongebob-on-fire-gif-13729593

[restive carbon]

I think this goes back to the conversation that it still can be used well.
It still feels weirdly powerful for a simple tap. This is the most broken record I've ever been.

[calm pagoda]

if they're moving fast, how is that a "simple tap"?

[restive carbon]

oh I mean if they are moving slow

yeah, my brain is definitely fried

I must've missed something

WAIT you talking about the non-blue shell user?

[calm pagoda]

if the speed total is not above walking speed then the player who ran into the blue shell will recieve no knockback

combined speed difference

so two players both running left wouldnt bump

because the difference is zero

[proud frigate]

if blue shell has to be nerfed I'd perfer it to be done like that. I'd rather it be like this tho. Fire Flower has a "simple tap" thing where if you walk UP to a fire plaeyr and do nothing you lose 4 stars but if so many people really complain about just touching the blue shell then this'd be my perfered nerf

[restive carbon]

ah I see I see

[silk gazelle]

Here is how I would rate blueshell compared to fire flower, since it comes up in conversation often.

Fire flower is a great tool, if you have it, you can get juicy combos that give 4+ stars, but it's hard to learn these combos.
Blueshell cannot combo in the same sense as fire flower. It gets slightly worse results, but it is easier to use. At the same time, while it gives slightly worse results, it also is easier to counter than a projectile powerup.
This really explains why there is a lotta arguing on this topic.

I didn't talk that much about fire flower l, since this is about blue shell

[proud frigate]

I kinda wonder why people don't lose their heads over Fire Flower combo

[restive carbon]

I don't like comparing it to the fire flower. It feels... like it's almost avoiding the issue I (and others) see in the blue shell side bump.

[proud frigate]

fire flower is a literal game changer, one combo can send a player from leading to dead last

[restive carbon]

that's why I didn't like 2.0 comboes at first
I'm.......... fffffffffffine with them now. lol

[calm pagoda]

a fire flower combo is not just a "simple tap" but i digress xd

[proud frigate]

how is it not?

[silk gazelle]

This is literally the most common comparison presented. Y'know why? Because it's actually rivaling fire flower in terms of usage in some cases. Especially for newer players.

[restive carbon]

the simple tap sending you flying we mean

both are a simple tap
the blue shell side bump just feels weirdly powerful

[proud frigate]

if we removed the fireball and just made it a punch, then people would feel like it's more of a simple tap

[silk gazelle]

It feels like something I would actually put in my second slot, compared to something I would throw away before

[calm pagoda]

touching a blue shell with zero speed = hardest knockback in the game

[restive carbon]

at least a punch is timed and activated... unlike a blue shell tapping you 😭 🙏

[restive carbon]

THAT is exactly why I dislike it.

It's unintuative.

[proud frigate]

GOing near a fire flower player = 1 star + unavoidable hip drop + bump or pit death

[restive carbon]

it takes skill at least

[silk gazelle]

Now that I say it out loud this might be the most balanced blueshell has ever been, since before it was just ass

[restive carbon]

Bro. 😭 🙏

[proud frigate]

I dunno I dunno, even "lower level" players combo me sometimes, and in FFAs I often get combo'd and lose all my stars

[silk gazelle]

Like, 'no experienced players would use it' kind of ass

[restive carbon]

If balancing is having a tap fling you 15 feet... then I think the balance needs to be somewhere else.

Idk where it would be though. My point is just that the side tap feels wrong.

[restive carbon]

That I feel goes into 2.0 combo territory. I was very frustrated with the comboes when 2.0 first came out.

[proud frigate]

I still fear that with this nerf it'll make Blue Shell pretty useless and unfeared

[silk gazelle]

Listen, it may be a lil unrealistic, but if it's the only way it gets usage then it's pretty good to me

[silk gazelle]

I fear the same thing my friend

[calm pagoda]

blue shell wasn't useless before the bump

how would it be after a slight nerf

[proud frigate]

it was being honest

[silk gazelle]

ehhhhhhhhhh I don't knowwww it was pretty close to being there

[proud frigate]

I never picked that thing UP, and everyone who did and used it would be treated like they had a mini mushroom

[calm pagoda]

bro if you have a blue shell on bricks in a ffa you can just kill everyone'

[restive carbon]

Like how it was before? Even though it was used before?

[silk gazelle]

I would compare blueshell pre buff to a near party trick I use for fun

[proud frigate]

but you can also be killed pretty easily since someone just opens a few holes and down you GO

[calm pagoda]

YOU CAN JUMP !!!!

NEWS FLASH!

[silk gazelle]

Bro if you have ice flower on jungle just kill everyone lol
ITS THE SAME GODDAM THING

[restive carbon]

😭 🙏

[calm pagoda]

THE HOLES EXIST FOR EVERYONE!!

they can fall in too!!

you can let go of run to stop spinning!!!

[spark raptor]

Day 4 or 5 of this ?

[proud frigate]

you can't control where you land as easily with blue shell, one wrong move and you're dead

[restive carbon]

It hurts.

[spark raptor]

Does this one mechanic hurt the play experience this much?

[silk gazelle]

No

[proud frigate]

I'm surprised ipod is taking me seriously with this pfp

[restive carbon]

not really
I just found it annoying

I mean it does sometimes actually.

Hence why I came here looking for this suggestion thread in the first place.

If it wasn't here, I would've made it myself. Windows10V just beat me to it.

[proud frigate]

I think that Blue Shell SHOULD have some annoying things about it, like every powerUP does

[restive carbon]

So just because some powerups have annoying stuff, justifies this to be annoying?

[proud frigate]

yeah

it's like Kirby in Smash Melee

[silk gazelle]

Wow you got that one good job 👏

[restive carbon]

I said that because it's a stupid argument.

[proud frigate]

he has no cool tech or anything and that's why he kinda sucks

[silk gazelle]

Sorry I've been having a bad day recently

[restive carbon]

ipod please come back and help me 😭 🙏

I feel like I'm losing my mind with these arguments.

[silk gazelle]

Lemme post a bad argument compilation for boba

[calm pagoda]

insane that youd say slightly nerfing the side bump would be equivalent to having "no cool tech or anything"

when you litearlly added faster slope speed gain and guaranteed speed preservation as well in the same update

[restive carbon]

speaking of slopes, I know I said this, but one of the slopes in Ghost House JUST to the right of spawn is broken and the blue shell doesn't go up it correctly I think

[proud frigate]

slightly nerfing? When people see blue shell they'll be like "Alright, lemme remove my hand off the run button and now I can fuck UP this blue shell"

[calm pagoda]

??????

if the blue shell guy is completely stationary then yeah?

[proud frigate]

even if the blue shell guy is moving

[calm pagoda]

?

[restive carbon]

Idk what's super wrong about these statements. If they are, my brain is fried I guess. Idk. I'm not saying I'm perfect at debating. Also, my mind has changed about stuff over time. Not saying that was the case for those screenshots above.

[proud frigate]

there's not many stages where you can do hyper speed, nor can you keep it that easily

[calm pagoda]

(above walking speed [blue shell]) - (zero [the other guy]) = above walking speed = knockback

[restive carbon]

THE POINT IS THAT A TAP SHOULD NOT SEND SOMEONE FLYING!

THAT IS IT!

I'M GOING INSANE!

OH MY GOSH! HELP!

[pearl blaze]

son

[silk gazelle]

YES

[proud frigate]

faster slope speed gain? I didn't add that. All I did was give Blue Shell a bit of a speed boost that GOes away after hitting a player or a wall

[restive carbon]

Windows. You caught me at the worst time possible. 🙏

[silk gazelle]

We knew that sonion 😭

[restive carbon]

valid crashout

[proud frigate]

and made it easier to enter "spinning blue shell" state from slope

becauswe for some weird reason you couldn't do it that easily in v2.0.4.1

[restive carbon]

I'm going insane because I feel like you guys tip toe around the initial problem me and others have with this side bump in the first place.

That something that low effort and small has as big of a reaction as it does.

I actually feel dizzy.

[proud frigate]

I think others just GOt used to side bump, even in game I see others adjust their strats when they see a blue shell. Others like Thwomp said he loves the new Blue Shell

[silk gazelle]

That's cuz the initial problem is literally an opinion. Other people are ok with this

[pearl blaze]

im gonna play some mvlo bye

[restive carbon]

🫡

[silk gazelle]

This I mean

[proud frigate]

one time I played a match and it just shocked me seeing the way the other player played

[restive carbon]

A loud minority is okay with this.
Again, many are not... and a LOT are not in the actual game of MvLO.
Idk why you guys are so dedicated on defending this. You can say the same about me too. And yeah... Idk why I'm so dedicated. 😭 🙏

[proud frigate]

I mean, I only really see one person at this point complaining about side bump so...

[silk gazelle]

Were both dedicated to keep/remove it

He means the others he asks in real mvlo lobbies

Not discord

[proud frigate]

I see I see

[calm pagoda]

no way you truly think that

if no one cared there wouldnt be 2k messages in this thread

[silk gazelle]

TBF a lotta them were same people

Alr I think I'm done I just wanna eat

[proud frigate]

there's 2k messages because we love arguing

[earnest sphinx]

this really shouldn't have gone as long as it did

[restive carbon]

sigh

[proud frigate]

I respect the hussle

[silk gazelle]

Atp this is just 'the argument place' lol

[restive carbon]

🫡

[silk gazelle]

Alr now I'm actually leaving bye bye

[earnest sphinx]

honestly im one of the only people that really like the new blue shell bump addition

[restive carbon]

It honestly snowballed because me and Vin argued and we kept having different thoughts.

[earnest sphinx]

actually makes blue shell worth using

[restive carbon]

I honestly think that's why this thread is so long.

[calm pagoda]

you think it's balanced in its current state?

[restive carbon]

Because of me and Vin's initial debate.

[earnest sphinx]

in some aspects? no, it needs a nerf

[calm pagoda]

that's what we're saying

thanks for agreeing

[earnest sphinx]

but does this thread need to be 2k messages long to get that point across? no

[spark raptor]

I like it because i think it’s ridiculously fun

[restive carbon]

Ofc not! It just got to that point.

[restive carbon]

Same. XD

wait

WAIT

WAIIIT

[spark raptor]

????

[proud frigate]

I'm kinda glad that some people like it because I thought I fucked UP MvLO

[restive carbon]

I MEANT THE THREAD BEING LONG

NOT THE SIDE BUMP MLJKADFHLJKNFDAMKLJNHDAFLKMHMLKDFAHFDas

[earnest sphinx]

the bottom line is this: just nerf the side bump to be a regular bump and not a ground pound bump, its not that difficult to reach this conclusion

[proud frigate]

regular bump has its issues tho...

[spark raptor]

About to say “so you spend hours and hours arguing against something you think is fun?”

[restive carbon]

You are telling me........... that you suggested this?

https://tenor.com/view/farcry6-gif-23383353

[proud frigate]

suggested? I made it

[earnest sphinx]

execution with the maximum knockback might be a little messy but its still a good idea to include, just nerf it

[restive carbon]

WHAT?