Nerf Blue-Shell's Sidebumps to Normal Knockback Instead of Groundpound/Removal (ONLY)

[pearl blaze]

@calm pagoda @proud frigate

[calm pagoda]

It's pretty much safe to say everyone dislikes it
?

do you have stats or like

is this just a guess

[silk gazelle]

sidebump really strong, everything else should be untouched

[pearl blaze]

Recently I've seen many clips of it with a negative description.

Pluh, Enki, 6Alexis8, and i've seen other negative messages outside mvl-media, calling it unbalanced

other servers also calling it OP, mainly due to that.

Blueshell's changes are AWESOME but this one is just. Overdone.

...
Notoss already made a PR nerfing it but the problem is that they keep adding more stuff we dont understand.

Don't get me wrong for not fully understanding, but like apparently your hitbox is now shrinked when crouching? and side collision is changed again?? Just why!

[calm pagoda]

is this a suggestion or just a complaint box

[potent gull]

i'd rather want the side bump to be fixed/removed, sometimes you're clearly above it and it still hits, it's so annoying

[silk gazelle]

well, the suggestion is on the title

and the reasons are in the chat

[potent gull]

to me the problem is not the type of knockback it deals, but how it triggers

[pearl blaze]

suggestion because i technically made this proposing either a nerf or a full removal, not despising it completely

And being specific that nothing else should be touched

[pearl blaze]

trigger?
Like is the interaction sometimes jank or unpredictable?

Can you clear up my mind

[potent gull]

Yes exactly
Like I said, sometimes it clearly triggers while you're above the blueshell.. ?? i have recorded quite some clips, i'll make a compilation

[pearl blaze]

Alr

I dont have stats but i would've gone and search for all negative descriptions about it if i was home

[silk gazelle]

here, good example

[pearl blaze]

If you go to mvl media right now its basically flooded with blue shell lmao

[silk gazelle]

mb... ^v^'

[pearl blaze]

Heres what i can do, i can search for all complaints/negative descriptions in Discord, since its what i can do in mobile rn

...

...

[pearl blaze]

COMPILATION

• Goldyber finds sidebump interactions weird (even if youre on top you still get knockbacked) #mvl-media message
• Pluh sharing clip with negative description: #mvl-media message
• Enki directly says "nerf blue shell", with the clips being mostly sidebumps #mvl-media message - Said just now "It was funny at first but now its just annoying" #mvl-discussion message
• 6Alexis8 shares a clip where he takes damage from blueshell's sidebump #mvl-media message - Another 6Alexis8 complaint on blueshell, calling it OP: (first embed)
• A random member (with bad English) saying it's OP, and sidebumps defeats him: (second embed)
• Snayp says his opinions on sidebumps and thinks needs to be nerfed, fixed or removed: (in the thread, no need to link messages)
• TomAndTheCats posts a meme, but hides a critic on blue shell, calling it unbalanced based on the image #memes-n-shitposting message
• And of course, including me that made this suggestion.

All i can do for now

[silk gazelle]

thank you windows, you have done a good service

theres a lot wrong with the blueshell, but I cant lie its fun playing with it, I mean, who wouldnt have fun with a broken powerup

[pearl blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/field-marshal-zhukov-spelling-mistake-field-marshal-zhukov-medals-youre-gif-24177857

How bro feels rn

[pearl blaze]

Agreed since theres many other good aspects about it. Starman speed, slope hyperspeed, heck even stronger crouch

Its just the sidebumps thats overdone

[pearl blaze]

Well uh anyways heres your stats, broixen propodtouch0218 brox

[silk gazelle]

brotosynthesis thats not how it works

[pearl blaze]

Watchu mean water cycle

[wheat harness]

i think i like the sidebump
i find myself respecting blueshell a bit more.. that's a good thing!
i can't lie it gives cheap kills tho, a simple kb reduction sounds nice

[pearl blaze]

Absolutely valid, 3 teaspoons of turnip sauce

(its part of a sunscreen recipe)

[stray portal]

I've also seen people saying they like it, but ig they don't matter

[gaunt pagoda]

I said 2.1 "sucks" because I had just played a full session with DirectX 12 crashing and dropping inputs. It was extremely frustrating. The new build Ipod gave us fixed everything. Only thing is the blueshell yes, sometimes you're unsure why you get knockbacked, considering you're clearly above

I don't think we want the sidebumb gone whatsoever, but rather having it making more sense. Like how do you get hit when you're fully above

[gaunt pagoda]

^^ exactly that

[pearl blaze]

How many?

I can only think of thwompthwomp. You can also bring up your stats if you want

[stray portal]

Idk, I didn't count

[spark raptor]

The hitbox just seems buggy sometimes
Side bump as a mechanic is fine

[silk gazelle]

Ik this is Mario game but side bump knockback feels genuinely unrealistic/out of place. I agree with keeping it, but make the kb normal please. gp kb is too much.

[storm plume]

I feel like gp knockback is fine, I just hate how I sometimes hit the top and it still punishes me with gp knockback anyways

[wheat harness]

from what i know notoss was fixing it

[spark raptor]

Not In Service

[pearl blaze]

Another mood swing

If no comeback in enough time someone else has to do it

[spark raptor]

Filter, windows

[pearl blaze]

?

[spark raptor]

nah jst imagine being notoss and seeing someone else say “oh they’re having a mood swing”

[pearl blaze]

Its the truth

[restive carbon]

ngl, I hate the fact that BOTH the sides and bottom act as a ground pound
it's cheap and frustrating especially when there is a low ceiling. it's extremely hard to counter since they can jump as high as you
I'd rather it be how it was, but if the blue shell has the have the mechanic, then at LEAST remove the sides 😭 🙏

[restive carbon]

everyone I've seen hates it 😭 🙏

[pearl blaze]

getting groundpound when crushed by shell is fine i think

Its no way often you pull it out

[restive carbon]

I was literally going to make this suggestion myself but then I saw that you posted it. lol
Granted, I was gonna say to remove the entire mechanic. It's just way too OP in my opinion.

like someone touching the side of you when ur a shell and getting thrown across the screen into a pit is so frustrating 😭 💀

[pearl blaze]

Yeah, especially when groundpounds are now super buffy since you dont lose momentum overtime, unlike 1.7

[restive carbon]

I was in a match like 2 days ago in Jungle and it became a really intense 1v1 only for him to grab a shell and barely touch me and fling me into poison. 😭 🙏
I'm not mad about the mechanic JUST because of that one match. lol I always thought it was too OP. But DANG it was frustrating.

just talking about it now XD

[pearl blaze]

true says true

shockingly shocking

[restive carbon]

I'd still make the argument that getting merely tapped by the bottom of the shell makes them go flying is OP too. 😭 But the sides doing it? Crazy!

I'm also not the biggest fan of the blue shell starman hyper speed as it fricks me up but eh I guess it's something to get used to. It's also very situational.

[wheat harness]

no longer dead weight with starman 🙏

[restive carbon]

that's very fair but I almost rather it be that way. it feels weird just getting launched and messes up parkour and whatever
almost feels like strategy to get a diff powerup with starman but I do see ur point

[frank anvil]

Wouldn't it make sense for the blue shell to give bump knock back, like running into people on the ground

[silk gazelle]

Ngl it's weird how so many people on this server think the side bump is too op but there are only 4 star react on this suggestion. Weird

[spark raptor]

The minority is extremely loud

[gaunt pagoda]

Not everybody is necessarily star reacting, I don't see any red cross either

[upbeat nacelle]

I feel like you can just... avoid the player with the blue shell. I am against this.

[pearl blaze]

But then if we make any Power-Up unapproachable it's either annoying or boring.

Your reasoning could go for Ice Flower in early 2.0.X: It used to deal hard knockback whenever you're thrown into a pit, always losing 2 stars and a life no matter what.
Can you avoid it? yes, but then you can't fight it, and what if you don't? you'll likely lose most of the times. That's bad design.

Your reasoning could also go for Hammer Suit in 2.0.4, or even Propeller Mushroom if it kept it's 1.7 design.

Overall i disagree with you. Respectfully.

[upbeat nacelle]

I see your point. Although by changeing it, that doesnt really address the very core of the problem, that being it is unapprochable. It would still be hard to fight, much less win, against a defensive power-up.

also, I would notice this is about the sides, not if you land on top correct?

[pearl blaze]

Yes

[worthy robin]

shell is not unapproachable most of the time :'3
if someone has a hight advantage against you, everything except hammer is unapproachable :'3

if i see someone at a higher elevation than me standing still with fire im running away :'3

you just got used to shell being approachable when they have high ground, and are disapointed that it doesnt work anymore!!!

and assuming both players have euqal footing, shell is easily groundpounded,,,

[pearl blaze]

Nope? they just jump and you get dealt groundpound knockback

[worthy robin]

be patient!

[upbeat nacelle]

bait them

[worthy robin]

they jump, you wait, then groundpound them :3

note that theyre forced to constantly jump, any time spent on the ground means less speed :3

they are quite literally as predictible and predictible can be :'3

[spark raptor]

Its just not easy anymore
which is exactly what we need

[upbeat nacelle]

unless they are walling a specific area

they dont move

[worthy robin]

again, fire can do the same :3

if someone has a high avantage you arent winning against any powerup :'3

unless its like,

[spark raptor]

maybe propeller

[worthy robin]

hammer : ' 3

[worthy robin]

propellor still wins out :3

[upbeat nacelle]

but as a shell, you arnt exactly at a disadvange either

[worthy robin]

?

[upbeat nacelle]

well

i can already see a ton of problems whith that

[worthy robin]

no like what did you mean :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

i mean, if someone is trying to use a power up against you, as a shell, you cant really be hurt

your also more protected against normal jumps. not immune, but side hits just move you

[pearl blaze]

Well true high ground in MvLO is broken for anything, but thats exactly why the sidebump shouldn't be MAX knockback. If you already have high ground, you’re already on the advantage. So you don’t also need a "touch the side = get deleted" mechanic on top of it.

It's not about making it too beatable, just making the punishment less harsh

[upbeat nacelle]

that makes sense.

[spark raptor]

i wouldnt mind a knockback change

which is what this is all about

but it seems like its only a loud minority

[upbeat nacelle]

I feel most people are like, 'it is what it is'

most people forgo the shell for other powerups anyway.

[fickle yew]

well when a lot of custom maps kinda have a big punishment if you get ground pounded
like either getting sent all the way down to the bottom of the map, or just straight up death with no chance to potentially miss the pit or having to wait a few more seconds than usual then it does becomes a little too harsh
I don't really find it that harsh but on some maps it is a little harsh

the blue shell actually being really good at its main purpose is really nice

[upbeat nacelle]

I actually agree.

I think its more of the circumstances around the the shell rather than the actual mechanics of the shell

[worthy robin]

i kinda love the comically large knockback ill be honest :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

on say, jungle, it kinda sucks

on grassland, its kinda fine really

[fickle yew]

-# crazy that it took this long for it to actually be mostly accurate but oh well

[spark raptor]

I was having an absolute blast playing with Sol on bricks
Most fun i’ve had on mvlo in a couple months ngl

[worthy robin]

woaw, the accuracy changes the the game more fun woaaahhh!!!

[spark raptor]

the more you know

[fickle yew]

when the pits don't have higher walls (jungle reference) that guarantee you fall in a lot more of course it's not gonna be bad

[pearl blaze]

There's a difference between skill based and too cheap groundpound knockbacks.
I agree blue shell should be good, and it IS better with all the other aspects within 2.1. But if a sidebump always counts as full groundpound strength, then in a lot of maps it basically becomes instant death or a guaranteed massive reset, which is way too extreme for something as easy as touching the side. Sidebumps happen often unintentionally in bigger player rooms.

[fickle yew]

well that's just kinda a flaw of having so many players
and sort of the level design too

[pearl blaze]

doesn't excuse a mechanic that speaks into unfairness

[upbeat nacelle]

??

ohh nvm

[fickle yew]

unfair is a little bold of a title

[spark raptor]

i disagree with labeling it unfair

[upbeat nacelle]

thought you ment a mechanic as in the proffesion

[pearl blaze]

Well yeah unfair is kind of exaggerated.
Too punishing.

[worthy robin]

how about the bugs related to stomping on it get fixed, then we talk about how unfair it is!

[spark raptor]

Harsh punishments have been what mvlo has always had since 2.0 came out
This punish can sometimes come easier, but it’s still just one star. You choose where you take your fights against shell.

[upbeat nacelle]

the shell cant change airborn trajectory, so it is pretty easy to know where they are going to go

[spark raptor]

Most they can do while sliding or crouching-hopping is stop and GP to change trajextory

[upbeat nacelle]

yep. pretty telegraphed

[spark raptor]

Anyways, i think we didnt even let this ride out for very long
How long has the last patch even been out for?

[upbeat nacelle]

uhhh

a week?

2

?

im not good with time

[silk gazelle]

in a lotta games get criticisms with changes that just came out.

[upbeat nacelle]

like the wind waker

maybe thats not what you ment

[silk gazelle]

I do still think the sidebump knock back is a lil too much tho, I don't think that will change TvT

[spark raptor]

a lot of games’ changes get criticized too early

[upbeat nacelle]

yeah

[silk gazelle]

It's funny, yeah, but its still too strong v. v"

Can you bump someone after hitting them airborne with the blue shell sidebump?

[storm plume]

The problem is hitting the blue shell player at what seems to be the top and still getting gp knockbacked anyways

[upbeat nacelle]

the top, yes

i have seen that

but i dont have a problem with hitting the side

[storm plume]

Wdym the shell doesn't kill the user on the spot

[restive carbon]

okay but what if you are trying to stop them? what if they have WAY more stars than you and time is running out?
because of how OP the ground pounding is, they can just camp and jump up and down along side you and easily cheese a win... ESPECIALLY if they are in a spot with a low ceiling. it's just plain unfair

[restive carbon]

fair but the punish if you fail is much MUCH worse now
it was perfect before. you couldn't just "cheese" someone with an OP defense
it was a good defense but wasn't insane if they fail

[restive carbon]

it's funny how I said this and then started playing MVLO and within around 30 minutes, some blue shell insanity happed 😭 🙏

HOW would this even be considered fair? 💀
(This clip is kind of funny tho. lol)

barely touches top left and gets launched into the pit 🥀 please change this ipod

[worthy robin]

i think its more than fair :3
take note of both sides of the interaction!!!
if shell hits you with the side bump, (assuming you didnt fall in a pit) theyre usually just taking one star from that interaction :3
if you ground pound them out of their shell theyre scrambling to pick up 3 different stars, 4 if you bump em :'3
the way i see it, currently shell can be super risky since youre left very susceptible to ground pounds!!! and the reward would at most be one star :3
ive been in a 1v1 game where someone was in shell and won a large amount of the interactions i had against them, but at one point i got one groundpound and bump on them because i got used to how they approached and they lost horribly for it :'3
adapting can be hard,,, but if you get used to it then blueshell is more than fair! ^v^

[worthy robin]

also thats a bug not an intended feature :3

[real vector]

thats my nightmare

[restive carbon]

??????????
This should not have flung me into the pit, I'm sorry.
And if I did hit the side of them, in a previous version, I probably would've gotten "hit" by them and fallen to the side a little.
Yes, you are supposed to be cautious in MVLO about where people coming from, the trajectory of the blue shell, where fireballs are going, etc.
But THIS? I'm now just actively in panic mode when I see someone with a blue shell because it's way too buff. It's no longer about strategy, it's about worrying if you are going to lose due to how OP it now is.

[worthy robin]

okay so my response to that,,,

[worthy robin]

is to read this message :'3

the post is about the knock back of the shell bump, not to patch bugs, go to bug reporting for that!!!

[restive carbon]

the side of the shell being a groundpound? pretty sure that's intentional. You mean how high I got hit? okay sure, but my point still stands I feel

merely getting touched by the side of a blue shell and getting flung into a pit or lava or whatever is incredibly frustrating

I even feel about that way for being hit from below while they aren't groundpounding... but eh, the sides are much worse

[worthy robin]

you misunderstood,,,
in that clip, you were not meant to take knockback, you stomped on the shell at first but because of a bug immediately got hit afterwards :'3

that is a bug :'3

[restive carbon]

If it's better to literally just stay away from the blue shell when someone has it in worry that stuff like this is gonna happen... then it's not just defensive, it's op... and should not be how it is

[restive carbon]

I see I see. even if the clip doesn't really fit this thread tho, I still dislike the sides flinging
ur right tho. the clip probably isn't what is meant here. maybe it's a side effect? Idk

[worthy robin]

youre simply too used to old shell!!!
if that happened to you, you werent careful enough and didn't respect shell as much as you should have :3
again, learning to adapt is important! if you stand near lava and a shell player comes at you and you refuse to change your strategies, thats,,, your own fault :'3

[restive carbon]

actually wait no, I rewatched the clip, I canceled the ground pound, it was indeed a tap 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

: ' 3

[restive carbon]

I feel like that's just a bad sentiment to have when something is overly OP though.
Like if anything gets buffed to a high amount that most of the community of said game hates, you can still say and think how you are responding to me.
I don't really think that fixes the issue of the thing being too OP??? Just learn and get good is a weird response to something that I feel is way too powerful now.

[worthy robin]

this really reminds me of 2.0 fireflower, everyone saying "but its too overpowered!!!, combos are insane!!! 1.7 was better!!!" not realising that the main problem was just their lack of adapting! its almost universal that people think 2.0 is better now because all they needed to do was adapt to the changes they werent used to :'3

[worthy robin]

im not saying learn and get good, im saying learn and change ;3

[restive carbon]

Like if the hammer suit got buffed to being able to throw 3 hammers at a time... which would be horrible... you could still say, "Just change up ur strategies lol" but that does not fix it being too OP

[restive carbon]

but said "change" is less fun and feels more worryful that ur gonna get damaged from something which... like we are all saying... is too OP now

[pearl blaze]

damn

[restive carbon]

I have gotten mostly used to that but some comboes still feel frustrating and you simply are just watching your character get knocked around and lose all ur hard earned big stars. It's alright tho. This blue shell change feels worse.

[restive carbon]

Any thoughts? 😭 🙏

[pearl blaze]

I really am the type of guy to lit the fire in this server xD

[spark raptor]

Windows truly is a minion of microsoft

[restive carbon]

Using an example of something that was changed that people need to get used to... won't always work. Like I get what you are saying. I understand.
But let's say for example that something changes and it really 100% objectively is too OP. You could still be like "Erm, remember that time when everyone hated it but needed to change?"
You can always say that. You saying it doesn't mean the buff was perfectly okay and can change. In many people's eyes, it's too OP. 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

the problem with hammer was that it was inconsistent to adapt to and didnt have an obvious weakness :3
hammer covers the air, covers right in front of him, and goes extremely fast upwards/diagonally :'3
hammer didnt have a clear weakness, if it was supposed to be in front if him it wasnt because of his melee, if it was supposed to be a blind spot in front of him that also wasnt the case because you would need to read how fast the hammer player was willing to move, if it was supposed to be below him it wasnt because he can stomp :'3

blueshell has a weakness, a very huge and glaring weakness, and has no projectile :3
your only option is melee and people with projectiles can spam you down to force you in your shell and can groundpound you for an insane reward!!!

this is what we call good design! ^v^

[spark raptor]

-# hi vin

[worthy robin]

hai!!!

[worthy robin]

yes and in 2.0 everyone was saying fireflower was OP too ;3

[restive carbon]

the hammer was just a quick example I had
and yes, you can ground pound it. I get it. the problem is STILL this buff tho. people can camp under ceilings or whatever, they always could, but now the risk of trying to stomp on them is too risky because of how badly OP it is
and I think we are imagining it not moving. people can jump up and down slightly moving too. the buff is just annoying

[worthy robin]

get combed in any game obviously it wont feel good but the important part is that you deserved it!!!

[worthy robin]

you can camp under ceilings with fireflower :'3

[restive carbon]

you keep saying that but many things aren't 100% in my control

[worthy robin]

yes they are!!!
and if its ffa what are you expecting :'3

[restive carbon]

dawg 🥀
it feels like you are just dodging the problem if this change

[worthy robin]

wdym!!!

youre bringing up non-issues of "people can camp under ceilings", this exists with fireflower which is the most common powerup and it hasnt been a problem so far :'3

[restive carbon]

everytime I talk about the blue shell's change being OP, you just go "remember that time with that other change/example when..." without talking about it directly 😭
point is, most people do find the side bump annoying and want it reverted

[worthy robin]

im not saying "remember when fireflower could camp ledges" because it actively can right now :'3

should we debuff fireflower?

should we nerf it so it cant do that?

[restive carbon]

I mean remember as in past and current.

You bring up other stuff is what I mean.

[worthy robin]

yes! because shell doesnt exist in a vacuum!

[restive carbon]

Blue Shell, many people consider, was better before. I'm sorry if I, along with many others, don't like getting tapped in the side and getting flung into death. :/

[worthy robin]

if we nerf blueshell because it can camp ledges then clearly it's only fair we do the same to other powerups that can do the same!!

i mean, thats just too overpowered if something can do that right?

[restive carbon]

🥀 not what I'm saying

[pearl blaze]

Hi BOOZEbobble

[worthy robin]

okay,,, so why is it being able to camp ledges a problem,,,?

other powerups do that too :'3

[restive carbon]

I'm not talking about just camping ledges.
I'm saying... being tapped on the side by a blue shell and getting groundpound treatment is OP.

That's what this thread is about.

[fickle yew]

yeah agreed
blueshell almost (because mvlo added some extra little things to make it even stronger for some reason) perfectly balanced being good while still actually having a proper weakness that can easily be taken advantage of
basically every new powerup doesn't really strike that balance that well like, ever, and also can't forget how all the custom maps just aren't really designed to be that safe, the pits usually are way more punishing and it becomes a lot worse when the game actually evolves to have a better knockback system than 1.7 and this level design stays the same and is even more punishing now

mvlo just makes the blueshell just a bit stronger than it was in the original, why? idk

[worthy robin]

okay then dont bring up it being able to camp under ceilings next time ;3

[restive carbon]

I was simply using that to add to my point.
It doesn't mean I feel that way about other power-ups too.

[worthy robin]

also yeah custom maps have ice flower and jungle so,,,
hard to say theyre perfectly balanced,,,

[worthy robin]

you cant add it on to your point if other powerups can do the same and it causes no issues :'3

[restive carbon]

that last sentence is what this whole suggestion thread is about
many feel it was prefectly fine before but is now too OP

[fickle yew]

not exactly
I'm talking about the original mvl not 2.0-1.7

[restive carbon]

yes, ice is VERY OP in Jungle, but it's not OP in every map
this blue shell buff feels OP in ALL maps! 😭 expecially OP in others like Jungle but still

[restive carbon]

ah I see

[wheat harness]

yur talking about pre 2.1 hammer right

[worthy robin]

blueshell isnt op on every map tho!!! again, groundpounding is a thing, and locking people in shell with projectile spam is a thing!!!

[worthy robin]

yeye :3

current hammer is honestly great, just wish it went higher :'3

[restive carbon]

The hammer got changed in this newest version? 💀

[fickle yew]

when I say stuff that mvlo added to make the blueshell stronger I mean:
the starman.
being able to switch in and out of it.
it's bugs from wonky playtests.
and the weird slope speed momentum it got for some reason.

[wheat harness]

i find it funny that it seem to be the worst of the 5 now 🥹
well propeller might be worse in 1v1s but ye

[worthy robin]

how is it that i somehow dont have a problem with blueshell and can easily counter it but everyone else who doesnt bother with adapting finds it so difficult :'3

if i do get hit by hammer, i see how i could have countered it (assuming it wasnt a bug), it feels very fair :3

[pearl blaze]

oooo the humble up aim

[fickle yew]

I don't find the blueshell that difficult either

[worthy robin]

nah propeller is worse for combat and ice still feels weirdly specific to when its effective :'3
hammer is a good utility to switch to-and-from just like propeller, i appreciate it :3

[restive carbon]

@worthy robin if we want to do a comparasion, then fine
blue shell has a weakness being it can be groundpounded

let's talk about the megamush and pretend it got buffed too in a newer version
let's say, it can now move 1.2x faster than before and instantly killed people
you can still argue, that hey, it still has its weakness, that being its timer

that's not the point

I don't care about the blueshell's weakness
many people feel that it got buffed in a way that is unfair and too brutal
still has its weakness? sure. can you change up ur play style and counter? sure.
but we still think the buff is too OP

[wheat harness]

i think ice got quite a bit better this update, i quite like it now
propeller ain't gud for combat, that's not why i think it's stronger than hammer :)

[fickle yew]

ice is just a little bit better
not something I would pick over a fire flower or blueshell though

[restive carbon]

y'all, this thread is about the blue shell change 😭 🙏
-# not gonna police anyone, just feels like we are avoiding the issue lol Idc tbh Idk why I'm yapping ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[wheat harness]

sorry lul

[worthy robin]

that is the most unfair comparison in the history of comparisons : ' 3

shell does not give an insane reward for hitting people, it gets 1 star :'3
shell has a way to fight it back against and can get punished severely :'3

in that mega mushroom example, thats an unfair comparison because there wouldnt be a way to fight back, things arent so black and white, im not saying everything can be or should be gotten used to, 2.0 hammer was bad, it technically had a weakness but it wasnt enough to make it punishable :'3

shell is extremely punishable!!!

[restive carbon]

I know the megamush example wasn't the greatest because you can't counter it while its active.
It just feels like the structure of conversation you are using here to avoid the entire issue of the blue shell buff that many people find annoying!!!

shell is very punishable but now many people in many scenarios may feel it's too risky thanks to a miss (even SLIGHTLY missing) is gonna kill them or whatever

it's simply not fun

[worthy robin]

people find blueshell annoying because of the knockback, what am i supposed to say other than the fact that its fine that blueshell can get a semi-decent reward for the risk of being extremely susceptible to groundpounds? :'3

if someone finds propeller annoying what am i supposed to say other than its insane boost in vertical high is easily counted by its sluggish descent? :'3

if someone finds hammer annoying ehat am i supposed to say other than staying in its blindspot is extremely effective now and as long as you do that they're a sitting duck? :'3

these are all fair designed powerups that have strength you gotta get used to!!!

[fickle yew]

honestly ever thought about the fact almost anything significant that mvlo changes is never received well initially at least usually because it's not what the main people are accustomed to?

[worthy robin]

exactly!!!!

"we hate accuracy" people when things they arent used to change and complain about it :'3
-# not saying everyone who complains about these new changes hate accuracy :3

[restive carbon]

yes, but I'm not using that an anything I'm saying
you can say that in defense of any new change... even if it is objectively too OP

this blue shell change isn't objective, but I, along with many, feel it's too OP. we will try and get used to it, but it's already led to frustrating moments that just felt unfair

[worthy robin]

it is not objectively too overpowered that is an opinion :'3

[restive carbon]

I'm not saying it is.

[worthy robin]

itd be really funny to see people complaining about the blueshell changes try to make any fighting game ever :3
infinite balance patches with no clear end in sight :'3

[restive carbon]

I'm saying in my example if something was actually too OP, I feel like you guys would still defend it by saying that most people don't like changes or whatever. That's not the point. I swear I'm going around in circles. 😭

[worthy robin]

no i wouldn't :'3

i hated 2.0 hammer :'3

it was overpowered in the sense that its counterplay was oppressive in such a way that it had no clear weakness :'3

blueshell has a clear weakness so giving it big good knockback feels entirely justified :3

[restive carbon]

from jumping and tapping someone, that's where many feel like that's a big no
tapping from underneath? still feels eh. ground pounding someone feels more fair.

listen, I'm fine with the player getting hit back from getting hit by the side. NOT being flung like a groundpound! it's insane!!!

[wheat harness]

seems like he's arguing that the blueshell is very oppressive

[worthy robin]

shell can be oppressive in the sense that not knowing how to deal with it is hard but i was moreso talking about how hammer was oppressive because of its lack of weaknesses :'3

shell currently can be oppressive if you don't exploit its weaknesses, thats a given for everything :3

[pearl blaze]

What accuracy does to a mario fangame haha

[worthy robin]

we arent talking about accuracy :'3

[restive carbon]

Idc about accuracy to the OG MVL in this case. This is just about it feeling too OP. 😭 🙏

[wheat harness]

what if the shell doesn't let you
i haven't seen this be discussed about yet

i'm just driving the conversation i don't really have a problem with it

[worthy robin]

i mean, thats someone covering for its weaknesses :3
thats what you always want to be doing 24/7 with every powerup :'3
idk what if hammer doesnt let you get below him to his blindspot?
that would be my response to anybody saying that ;3

[pearl blaze]

sidebump attacks are accurate to the og

[restive carbon]

I'm in the bloody Twilight Zone.

[worthy robin]

okay but we arent talking about whether or not its accurate we're talking about whether or not its overpowered :'3

-# please do not reply to this message in an attempt to defend yourself again,,,

[pearl blaze]

pretend i am defending myself

[spark raptor]

He means ipod adding an accuracy change causing this discussion

I think

[pearl blaze]

ipod didnt add it haha

[restive carbon]

Please forget about the blue shell having a weakness, and if so, just leave that as a small factor.
The simple thing is that, offensively, you can just jump and tap someone and kill them! The tap on the SIDE should not act as a groundpound!!! 😭

[spark raptor]

I forget

[restive carbon]

I don't think anyone was talking about accuracy to the og MvL until this point. 🥀

[worthy robin]

at least in my opinion, shell getting a much bigger reward for its massive weaknesses is fine but that seems to just be a very personal opinion you have on this, as well as me having my opinions :'3

i would say i feel as if its more justified it has this kind of reward because of how vulnerable it can be, but your defense is

feels eh
:'3

[fickle yew]

not really a kill on the maps that didn't get inspired by jungle to add 6 pits

[restive carbon]

my point is that this "reward" feels cheap

[worthy robin]

its 1 star man :'3

[restive carbon]

sure but still a very good defense that flings people further than many might feel is right

[restive carbon]

THAT is the only good thing. If it was 3 stars, I would be losing my mind rn.

[worthy robin]

im very glad that people getting hit by shell dont just immediately grab their stars again, hard kb prevents that :3

which is good :3

because blueshell actually gets their reward :'3

[fickle yew]

like
grassland
bricks
ice
pipes
usually fortress
usually desert

[restive carbon]

THAT is my poinnt, they shouldn't get a reward for tapping someone with their side. Plain and simple.

They didn't really do anything. 🥀

[restive carbon]

Bricks is kind of?

[worthy robin]

shell is worse offensively what are you talking about :'3
if it werent for that bug and you cancelling your groundpound, you would have stolen 3 stars from the shell player in that first clip you sent :'3

thats what shell gets for being offensive :'3

[restive carbon]

okay forget the clip, it's a bad example that I thought was a good example at first

I'm talking about when someone is not moving or only slightly moving with a blue shell

[pearl blaze]

Ill be honest i think we should prioritize fixing the stomp bug first

[restive carbon]

jumping into someone with ur side and flinging them just... it doesn't feel like it should give such a big "reward" as it is rn

[worthy robin]

it can be used offensively but its weaker since the shell is coming at you and you dont need to catch up to it, so it being more rewarded with offensive plays because of its disadvantage of being easier to hit seems fine :3

[restive carbon]

fair

[wheat harness]

i see folks dying on grassland from this thing surprisingly a lot 🥹
take off your rose tinted glasses pls

[fickle yew]

it's a lot more fair in grassland than it is in jungle

[wheat harness]

yeah, maybe
not mentioning volcano or beach & stuff is still insane tho

[restive carbon]

Idc if it's less fair in others and more fair in others.
it just overall feels a bit more unfair than the previous version of the blue shell

[worthy robin]

whats your reason other than "doesnt feel like it",,,?
for me, the reason it should be kept in is because shell has massive weaknesses so giving it strong kb feels like it has a better reward for the fact that youre making yourself vulnerable by stunting your movement, you trade the ability to move effectively in exchange for knockback so hard it guarantees you collect the star that pops out of your opponent :3

seems fair!

[fickle yew]

I forgot beach existed it's hard to die there from that

[worthy robin]

its quite funny :3

[wheat harness]

i feelt bad sometimes but it can be funny ye :)

[restive carbon]

it has a massive weakness sure
but ur reward is mobility with some defense and also offense in tight corners while moving

the reward should NOT include flinging someone like they got groundpounded (minus the 3 stars part) when ur barely moving and simply tap them with ur side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😭 🙏

[fickle yew]

however
it's a lot more punishing in a way where you have to make your way back to the top rather than death

[worthy robin]

wdym mobility? :'3
crouching and not sliding with shell removes mobility :'3

[restive carbon]

groundpounding on that top part of Grassland at least takes a bit of skill 🥀

[worthy robin]

why shouldn't that be the reward!
its good! it guarantees the shell player collects the star they knock out! ^v^

[restive carbon]

mobility when ur moving

[worthy robin]

explain!

[restive carbon]

xd

[worthy robin]

oh yeah for sure :'3

[restive carbon]

okay but my argument is that they should NOT be knocked out by a simple tap

[wheat harness]

due to hams statement of the hard kb making it harder to recollect the star makes this seems like a non-issue
if anything i'm away from the shell yum

[restive carbon]

it's too "cheesy"

[worthy robin]

compared to not crouching you have less mobility :'3
you are sacrificing mobility, you normally would have more :'3

[restive carbon]

they shouldn't get a good reward like that for such a small "offensive" play

like it's barely an offensive attack

[pearl blaze]

Ngl thats actually valid imo.....

[restive carbon]

jumping up and down and hoping you tap them and if you do, they get killed 😭 🥀

[fickle yew]

well it's not that bad
just pretty annoying especially if you get in the water which was basically designed to try and slow you down and almost kill you if you don't spam jump

[restive carbon]

It's cheap and not really fair is what I see it as.

[worthy robin]

if their play was small, you did something wrong :3
if they didnt put much thought into it you should have been able to groundpound just as easily as they made that play :3

[wheat harness]

i know notoss was experimenting with making it the knockback a little shorter

making it more than a stomp but less than a gp

[worthy robin]

good players approaching with shell need to put in a lot of effort to make it effective!!

[potent gull]

Yo can i get a quick summary of what is being discussed

[restive carbon]

small not as in you didn't have effort, but them effortlessly hitting you!!!

[worthy robin]

boba things shell dealing hard KB is too op :3
i say otherwise :3

[restive carbon]

but they shouldn't be in fear of getting tapped and dying 😭 🙏

[wheat harness]

"blueshell op"
"just play around it"
"doesn't feel good tho"

all valid so idk

[restive carbon]

IMO, blue shell tapping someone with their side flinging them like a groundpound is dump and OP.

[worthy robin]

i dont think boba said it doesnt feel good to play around it, he hasnt even mentioned trying so far :'3

[restive carbon]

not if the blue shell is moving fast, just them jumping up and down

[worthy robin]

also true :3

[restive carbon]

I have tried but it has lead to me failing.

like someone was spam jumping in jungle and... hold on... I might be able to find the recording

[potent gull]

Honestly the Kb is fine imo
My issue with it is the sidebump in itself, it would be fine if a crouch blueshell stomp blueshell dealt gp kb as long as it cannot hit from the side or at the very least not from above

[restive carbon]

I think that's what we are saying. Or what I'm saying. Idk. 😭

[worthy robin]

yeah at first that was me too :3
cuz i was used to the old blueshell and didnt respect it enough!!!
as i got used to it i realised "oh wait theyre extremely weak when doing this" ;3

[worthy robin]

yeah the above thing is a bug :'3

so obviously that needs fixing first :'3

everything im saying is assuming it didnt exist :3

^v^

[potent gull]

Not being able to push a blueshell away without taking massive risks is a problem at the moment
And I'm not saying to actually attack it, really just pushing it away from camp spots

[restive carbon]

ugh nvm the clip is gone

I don't think it would've changed ur mind.

u would've just said, erm, change ur play style 🥀

my point is that a simple slip shouldn't result in ur losing the game thanks to getting tapped 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

fireflower:

[potent gull]

I was thinking exactly that

[restive carbon]

fireflower does not send you flying

you can still space urself

[worthy robin]

yeah :3
it only takes at most 5 stars :'3

[restive carbon]

this tap can kill even if ur not close to an edge

high risk, low reward for the non-blue shell person

[worthy robin]

?????? shell is melee only, you can massively space yourself against it :3
anywhere that isnt where the blueshell is is your space :'3

[restive carbon]

no space urself against a cliff

if u get hit by a fireball, you only take a little knockback

[worthy robin]

so you're saying that if fireflower is on a cliff its more fair than shell being on a cliff? :'3

[restive carbon]

I honestly don't want to compare it to a fireflower at all.

[worthy robin]

well you kinda need to :3

powerups dont exist in a vacuum!

shell is only as good as the powerups around it :3

and lemme tell you that fireflower being on a cliff and being able to groundpound combo you even if you didnt touch him directly is much worse than someone giving you a massive heads up with "i am here, on the cliff, in shell, if you try to directly interact with me youre probably losing one single star" :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

Welllll.... If that is the case, wether camping, or slowly jumping, they are at a disatvantage to getting stars. If you just avoid them, they 1, dont have the ability to take your stars and 2, are way less likely to get a new star. I think this is just something to get used to, and develop strats to counter it. (also i do like how i was in that match) also also, theres like 100 unreads after this and im not reading all of them so if this is obsalite, whatever i guess.

[worthy robin]

dw its not obsolete!

they mentioned how more people disagree with these changes but you seem to be proof of the contrary,,,

[upbeat nacelle]

i think its a loud few people

getting knocked back when you are tottally jumped on top of them is uncool though.

[worthy robin]

right,,,
its more common people express their complaints than their compliments ;3

[worthy robin]

also ya i dislike that bug too :'3

[pearl blaze]

add boomerang flower

[upbeat nacelle]

yes

[restive carbon]

okay but what if they are winning with way more stars than you and the timer is running out?

what if you need to "defeat" them?

it's bad design if they grab a power-up and all you can do is to just run away (and I mean if the power-up doesn't have a timer)

[upbeat nacelle]

i mean, if they have so many, i feel like its kinda a position they or others put them in

[worthy robin]

everything youre saying is the exact same with other powerups!!!
what if someones winning and they camp a high unapproachable area with fireflower???

[restive carbon]

everytime I'm in a lobby and it's mentioned, they think it's too OP
every... single... time

[upbeat nacelle]

I think people just need to find ways to counter it

[worthy robin]

when im in a 1v1 lobby i hear people say fireflower is too op all the time too :3
turns out when youre good at something and make use of it, you can have an advantage!

[upbeat nacelle]

true

[restive carbon]

hammer is a great counter
funnily enough... blue shell is imune. my point still stands

people can always camp a spot, but this new change feels like the blue shell user can "camp" anywhere. I don't mean just camping tho. plain and simple, it feels op

[restive carbon]

YES BUT the thing is they don't have to be good at it! they can just tap someone with a blue shell! that's what I've been trying to say this whole time! that it's CHEAP!

[worthy robin]

eheh, wanna try that? ;3
i can stand on the brick platform in grassland, and you try to approach with shell ;3

[restive carbon]

it's low skill, high reward

sure they have a weakness but I'm not talking about that

they aren't being offensive

well they are but barely

it's a simple tap on the side!!!!!!!!!!

[upbeat nacelle]

its not really a high skill to chuck fireballs everywhere, but its still annoying

[restive carbon]

NO! this is about the NON-blue shell user approaching the BLUE SHELL USER! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[upbeat nacelle]

...

[restive carbon]

I'm in the Twilight Zone. I'm going insane.

[worthy robin]

not everything has to have the same skill floor :3
boba fett, id like to ask a question, have you played super smash bros ultimate?

[upbeat nacelle]

i have

[restive carbon]

I've played that game for over half a decade.

[worthy robin]

right!

[worthy robin]

-# oh dear :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

good representation of the situation

[worthy robin]

have you fought a little mac before?

[upbeat nacelle]

yes

ez

[restive carbon]

I really don't care about these examples of other stuff.
All I'm trying to say is that jumping in one position (the blue shell user) and getting flung (the non-blue shell user) by a side tap is too OP. Done. That's IT. That's all I am trying to discuss.

[worthy robin]

trust me, this example is a great representation!

i would appreciate you humoring it for a second :3

[restive carbon]

yes

[worthy robin]

have you fought a little mac who spams smash attacks and counter?

[upbeat nacelle]

spamming sonics neutral special

[worthy robin]

-# it is quite annoying but wouldn't exactly fit the example im trying to give :'3

-# i do dislike sonic tho : ' 3

[restive carbon]

probably

[worthy robin]

right!

doing that can work!

and i would know, im still getting used to smash and i lost to a little mac with 4mil gsp online who did nothing but spam smash attacks and counters :'3

it didnt take much skill to do that, but i wont complain about it, because i know he has glaring weaknesses!

mac has a low skill floor, you can be very effective with little effort!

but is he good?

no!!!

does he have weaknesses?

way too many of them to list!!!

can people be very smart with him regardless and use skill to get an advantage?

100%!!!

[restive carbon]

yes but he doesn't kill you with one tap
THAT is what this discussion is about 😭

[worthy robin]

he kinda,,,

does :'3

KO punch :'3

[pearl blaze]

Spooky scary Nintendo, send DMCA's down your spine

[restive carbon]

😭

[worthy robin]

also blueshell doesnt kill you in 1 tap :'3

[restive carbon]

it can especially in Jungle

[fickle yew]

you can die easily in jungle that's not new

[worthy robin]

ye :3

my point is:

little mac and blueshell have a lot in common!

and even though mac is absurdly strong in many situations, his glaring weaknesses make him abysmal!

and imagine if mac didnt have super armour on his foward smashes because "hits should trade if i hit him too!!!" or he didnt have KO punch because "its too cheesy!!!"

that just makes him,,, lame :'3

so because shell has such horrendous weaknesses, i think him having strong kb on his crouch makes up for it in a fair way :3

[upbeat nacelle]

its dependent on the map really.

[restive carbon]

it's still OP in most maps
Jungle is just this best example for extreme OP

[upbeat nacelle]

its basicly useless in pipes

[worthy robin]

it is not extremely OP in jungle and if you're complaining about that you have an ice-shaped elephant in the room :'3

[calm pagoda]

yall made this the most unreadable thread in the world

[spark raptor]

I swear

[worthy robin]

sorry :'3

[spark raptor]

I should become ipod’s professional yes-man

[pearl blaze]

Nerf Blue-Shell's Sidebumps to Normal Knockback Instead of Groundpound/Removal (ONLY)

[upbeat nacelle]

glad to be of service

[pearl blaze]

i was feeling silly

[silk gazelle]

Oh I was wondering what this was lol

[restive carbon]

my point... is simply...
they a move that's barely offensive merely tapping someone with the side sending the other flying is too OP

[upbeat nacelle]

ok so

1v1 me

you use blue shell

[restive carbon]

in a game where someone has more stars and the timer is running out, they can use blue shell to POTENTIALLY get a cheap kill

[worthy robin]

yes i am aware of what your point is :'3
and i gave numerous comparisons and talking about how its good it has big strengths in exchange for big weaknesses :'3
and instead of saying how thats not true you just state your original point again,,,

you didnt even acknowledge the smash example after all :'3

[restive carbon]

I did.

[spark raptor]

uhh blue shell side bump is like Ganondorf end of story goodnight

[restive carbon]

^

KO punch doesn't always kill.

[worthy robin]

and i said he does :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

ganondorf bad

[worthy robin]

and then you stopped :'3

[restive carbon]

okay okay

KO punch isn't ALWAYS active.

[worthy robin]

dude :'3

[restive carbon]

this stupid tap is

[spark raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/ganon-ganondorf-forward-tilt-ftilt-gif-10040169748927959520

[restive carbon]

I swear I'm going insane.

WHO REMOVED A STAR?

[worthy robin]

forward smash is something you can always do :3

[spark raptor]

LMAO

[worthy robin]

and its stupidly broken!

[restive carbon]

OP REMOVED HIS OWN STAR. 😭

[upbeat nacelle]

lmao

[spark raptor]

WINDOWS

[silk gazelle]

Haahahahaha

[restive carbon]

WHAT THE FRICK IS HAPPENING TODAY?

[upbeat nacelle]

no idea

[restive carbon]

EVERYONE THOUGHT THE WAY I THOUGH YESTERDAY!

I'M IN THE WRONG TIMELINE!

GET ME OUT!

GET ME OUT!

HELP!

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-crash-out-angry-gif-15667791719891680630

[fickle yew]

King boba fett you've been talking about the blue shell being op for like two hours man..

[spark raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/miles-morales-miles-morales-glitch-miles-glitch-across-the-spider-verse-gif-8956525652341797089

[restive carbon]

LOL

I'm also doing college homework too.

I just finished actually.

[worthy robin]

youre in the timeline where people change their minds because they thought about it for a few days :'3

youre right!!! youre in the wrong timeline, you might wanna go back to the one where everyone also doesnt change their minds like you ;3

[fickle yew]

like genuinely just come to a conclusion this has been going on for too long

[spark raptor]

This is like star fountain with the mbfc
A group of people despising a mechanic whilst it doesnt change

[silk gazelle]

I hope while writing a sentence you think about this conversation and accidentally write blue shell on your page

[upbeat nacelle]

I think we can entirely see if it is op by just playing a game

[restive carbon]

my conclusion is that it's too OP
I just wanted to share my points but I feel like people aren't understanding them.
they go in a different direction and I explain my points about that and it keeps happening until we made a full circle and they are saying the opposite of a point I already made 45 minutes ago!!! I have to then explain again!!!!

[upbeat nacelle]

i see your point, i just dont agree

[silk gazelle]

Maybe it's an agree to disagree situation

[upbeat nacelle]

i agree

[restive carbon]

yes

actually no

Ima fight for another 12 hours

nothing can stop me! >:D

[upbeat nacelle]

wait what

[worthy robin]

i understand your points, i know what you think and how you think the knockback is too strong and is too cheesy, thats exactly why i brought up my little mac comparison! i know exactly what you're talking about and the example of little mac in smash is the perfect way to communicate what you think and how its not true :3

[restive carbon]

okay okay hear this then

Little Mac has weakness yes 100%

but the blue shell has one, that being ground pounding it
it is really hard to do if they are camping a high spot or a low ceiling spot

even if they aren't, you can still sometimes get caught out of motion

[pearl blaze]

WHAT THE FUCK IS LITTLE MAC

[restive carbon]

the punish it soo punishing

[silk gazelle]

Blue shell hard counters little mac

[silk gazelle]

Character in super smash bros

[wheat harness]

little dow but worse
(a guy from a boxing game that's in smash bros)

[spark raptor]

SSBU comparison analogy to blue shell

Windows ball knowledge is D tier confirmed

[restive carbon]

🥀

[pearl blaze]

more ping replies please

[wheat harness]

ok

[silk gazelle]

With pleasure

[restive carbon]

add back star reaction 🔫

sorry if I've been a bit "toxic" in this thread, I'm multi-tasking and actively losing my mind 😭 🙏

[spark raptor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1448406213262835804/1489425215929974784/IMG_3955.gif

[silk gazelle]

In this smash bros analogy, hams is the try hard Pikachu main ngl

[restive carbon]

I'm also weirdly passionate about this convo.

[pearl blaze]

I was never a smash bros fan nor ever played it

[spark raptor]

Pikachu mains suck ass never talk bad about hams like that again

Next time you say shit like that we’re taking this outside

[worthy robin]

blueshell has many weaknesses!
you can lock it in place if its in motion by spamming it with projectiles, it can be ground pounded super easily, and stomping on it (is supposed to) pushes it away :3

from my experience with smash, little mac didnt even feel like he had any weaknesses!!! if hes just spamming forward smash and it has super armour what am i even supposed to do???

the answer, of course, is patience :3

if someone is camping the top brick area on grassland with fire or shell, what do i do?
hammer doesnt even work well against fire in that situation :'3
the answer is wait for a star spawn and either get it or claim the high ground while they get it :3

twist it aaaaall you want, but in a game as simple as mario vs luigi there simply isnt another way to go about it without someone adapting and countering you :3

both little mac and shells strengths are insanely strong and they both can make theirs very apparent with minimal effort!, but their weaknesses are so massive that it more than makes up for it :'3

[silk gazelle]

Hey pikachu is one of my mains :(

[spark raptor]

oops 😭

[silk gazelle]

LMAO

[pearl blaze]

"Next time you say shit like this"- BBOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!

[spark raptor]

lmaoo exactly

[spark raptor]

you’re getting jumped or something now

[silk gazelle]

Konichi what

[fickle yew]

I give this 2 hour long conversation 2 big booms

[silk gazelle]

Stop typing in trying to read and the essay is running away from all the messages

[worthy robin]

uhm,,,

-# i main doctor mario and dedede :'3

[silk gazelle]

I'm only on paragraph 3 hold on

[pearl blaze]

NOOOOO

[wheat harness]

what does it look like in the original btw

the so called side bumps

[pearl blaze]

its character based

[worthy robin]

depends on if your mario or luigi :3

thos version inherits marios version :3

[restive carbon]

I":MK L:ITERALLY INA GAME RNG SAKJLMNDS GHKJNSDFGLKMSDJHmnkgfsdjnm k,fgsm,n hjkmnfda

[wheat harness]

what why :HIM:

[restive carbon]

Okay but what if the timer is running out and I NEED to defeat them? 😭

[worthy robin]

me when i ask casual smash players to play with me, spam smash attacks with little mac and then proceed to ask them if they think hes overpowered:

[spark raptor]

we should play sometime

[restive carbon]

YOLO is experienced.

[worthy robin]

then youre screwed :3
fireflower can do the same, ice can do the same on maps like jungle, everyone can do that :3

no powerup required actually! if youre winning just stay on the opposite side of the map as your opponent :3

wanna know what you do?
grind coins for a starman and hope :3

[restive carbon]

fire flower cannot do the same since hammer can counter

"then you're screwed" PERFECTLY sums up why I think this is unfair

[worthy robin]

oh cool id like to fight em sometime :3

[restive carbon]

them simply having a blue shell shouldn't make me screwed if I need to fight them 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

hey.

no powerup required actually! if youre winning just stay on the opposite side of the map as your opponent :3

reply.

[restive carbon]

yeah if u don't, they still can't beat the power of the new OP blue shell side tap

[worthy robin]

also no hammer doesnt even counter fireflower in most situations where you have high ground :'3

[worthy robin]

?

"yes, its a problem regardless but now the problem has a different wrapping paper"

okay :'3

[silk gazelle]

This is a convincing argument, I do see all your points.. but even then the sidebumps feel WAY to punishing. It can already combo with its sidebump, I think the knock back is a little too extreme, kills from so far away.
And yeah, little Mac kills early too, but

[restive carbon]

I'm I getting ragebaited? 😭 🙏

[silk gazelle]

Dang I actually can't think of a counterargument there

Checkmate ig, you win hams

Like, closest thing I got is "ah, but it's different! But is it really? :')"

[restive carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/you're-mocking-me-aren't-you-buzz-lightyear-toy-story-are-you-making-fun-of-me-disney-gif-8716941652417374210

[worthy robin]

the knockback is extreme, the weakness is extreme, blueshell is the powerup of extremes :3
not everything should be so bland! ;3
^v^

[wheat harness]

ok so what does LUIGI do

[worthy robin]

he like,,,

stomps on them?

sometimes?

[spark raptor]

Luigi is the card dealer

He also controls the cartel

[wheat harness]

wut

[worthy robin]

is that not exactly what you said though? :'3

[worthy robin]

idk :'3

[silk gazelle]

No-no-no of course not. Sorry if it sounds that way dude 😅

Alr well guess I'm taking off my star react

[worthy robin]

i can go in rn and test :3

[wheat harness]

at this point i think i need to try it out solo myself 😭

[silk gazelle]

Dang my Internet sucks I sent that minutes ago

[worthy robin]

^v^
im glad people can see how shell is fairly balanced now!!!

when i fought ame with it for the first time, i got DEMOLISHED by its sidebumps but i loved it!!!

because i could feel how balanced it is!

but just needed to get used to it!

[restive carbon]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[spark raptor]

WOOHOO WE FINALLY CAME CLOSER TO A CONSENSUS

[silk gazelle]

Hahaha yeah guys I give, sorry King Boba Fett

[spark raptor]

blueshell will remain a Demon Core

power of vin

[restive carbon]

okay

I literally

tested it out

in a game just now

using blue shell spam

and won

let me get a clip of it because it's TOO OP I SWEAR

[spark raptor]

Its joever

[silk gazelle]

I'm a man of reason

[wheat harness]

poor jacob didn't deserve this

[worthy robin]

ooo hold on-

lemme log into smash :3

gonna go online and spam fsmash as mac :3

and ill win :3

[spark raptor]

Thats how i got him into elite

[worthy robin]

and prove to you that little mac needs nerfs!!!

[spark raptor]

Does not

[silk gazelle]

This is the best analogy ever lol

[spark raptor]

The netcode needs a buff

[worthy robin]

nono he does tho!!!

you see, it takes minimal effort to be effective!

[spark raptor]

The developers analyzed his online win rate
Its bad

[spark raptor]

No ipod, im not talking about mvlo

[worthy robin]

yes he has glaring weaknesses but bandana you must understand that punches feel like they shouldnt deal that much damage!

i mean, docs jab is weak!

[silk gazelle]

Dang what a premove, let's see if he got it right

[calm pagoda]

even if the side bump was made to do weak knockback, it wouldnt fix your complaints about camping high platforms

[worthy robin]

also true :'3

didnt even notice :'3

[spark raptor]

truth nuke of doom

[spark raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/family-feud-survey-says-strike-buzzer-wrong-answer-gif-16312959

[wheat harness]

what if we revisit hammer hitting shell...
scary topic...

[spark raptor]

Nahhh 😭

[worthy robin]

nuuuu!!!

[wheat harness]

make the arc go higher and boom anti camp powerup but impractical powerup

[worthy robin]

powerup specific counters are so lame : ' 3

[spark raptor]

Propeller < Projectile Power Ups

[restive carbon]

I LITERALLY joined a game JUST to prove my point and got it within like 10 minutes.
The buff feels like CHEEEEEEEEEEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silk gazelle]

The sign is backwards king

[spark raptor]

You’re telling me Propeller is better😭 ?

[silk gazelle]

Bro what?

[restive carbon]

It's so freaking stupid! I feel like I'm losing my GOSH DANG MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silk gazelle]

Regular knock back coulda killed there

[restive carbon]

WHAT?

oh maybe

BUT STILL IF THE LEDGE WAS FURTHER!

[silk gazelle]

Bro.. 😭

[restive carbon]

IT COVERS SO MUCH RANGE FOR A LITTLE TAP!

DFL:KJINHAHMKLNFASDKML HFDMKLMKHLFKL<MHDZF

[wheat harness]

i see it as ultimate defensive play counter, gotta play differently against it
perhaps hammer could only hit if the shell is normal crouching, giving the intended use more use? 🤔
it's odd tho

[worthy robin]

you really like ignoring the mac example huh :'3

lemme play some smash and play as little mac and record some wins :'3

to PROVE little mac needs nerfs!!

[silk gazelle]

Quack quack 🦆

[worthy robin]

but,,,

how do we communicate that :'3

[wheat harness]

ye that's the odd part

speaking of

how does blueshell communicate sidebumping vs damage

[silk gazelle]

Speed?

[wheat harness]

it can go the same speed as shell spin so

[worthy robin]

i just dont like how you need luck to counter something :'3

[pearl blaze]

#mvl-discussion-2

[worthy robin]

windows dont make this misleading!!!

[silk gazelle]

-# hehehehehe

[pearl blaze]

lets fucking go

[spark raptor]

I genuinely tweaked seeing this

I immediately thought “why did they make another”

[pearl blaze]

lets fucking go (1)

[spark raptor]

lets-a fucking go

[pearl blaze]

Go back to debating please i need numbers

[spark raptor]

Attention seeking ass

-# take 5 more

-# take 5 more

-# take 5 more

[silk gazelle]

What was your first clue 😭

[spark raptor]

-# take 5 more

-# take 5 more

[pearl blaze]

Nerf Blue-Shell's Sidebumps to Normal Knockback Instead of Groundpound/Removal (ONLY)

[restive carbon]

bro I've addressed it twice 🥀

LOL

[restive carbon]

HOLD UP

the previous version didn't even knock people

it just made the blue shell go the other way... as it should

the tap dealing kb in and of itself is just anti-intuative

[upbeat nacelle]

ok, so, you all know if you use a running blue shell on a non-running blue shell you can get rid of their blue shell power-up right?

blue shell counters blue shell

[worthy robin]

thats for you to make your own post about :3

this ones for lessening the knockback :'3

[restive carbon]

I'm pretty sure the original title was remove instead of nerf.

[worthy robin]

it is not the current name of the post :'3

[restive carbon]

well nerfing is still better than nothing

[worthy robin]

okay then talk about that,,, ^v^'

but if youre talking about removing it outright then go to another post cuz thats not what this ones about!

[upbeat nacelle]

oh hey theres 6 stars now

[worthy robin]

yey!!!
im glad people are removing their stars :3

[restive carbon]

I feel like it's just cluttering up the suggestions area if I make a post THAT similar.
Like nerf and remove are very very close. I'm not making a whole new one just to change the wordingly slightly on a specific change. 😭 🙏

[restive carbon]

I'm not. The tap fling sucks and is broken.

[worthy robin]

???
nerfing and removing the entire feature are two extremely different things :'3

[restive carbon]

I swear to frick we should 1v1 and I will mostly use a blue shell against you and you will see how badly OP it is. 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

they fundimentally change how you play the game!!!

[worthy robin]

go ahead! ;3

that can be arranged :3

[restive carbon]

okay lol want to rn?

[worthy robin]

sure, but i cant for too long cuz i gotta do somthin soon :3

[restive carbon]

I'm not joking around. 🥀

[worthy robin]

but i can for like 30 minutes :3

[restive carbon]

alright

I'm either gonna prove myself or get destroyed and never heard the end of it.

Windows chill. LOL

[worthy robin]

you realise that even if you manage to do well against me with blueshell i would still maintain that i just need to adapt to it ;3

[restive carbon]

GYCD

[pearl blaze]

can i spectate

[restive carbon]

it's still OP

[restive carbon]

sure

[pearl blaze]

so i can make fun of both of you

lets fucking go

[restive carbon]

XD

[worthy robin]

so is llittle mac in smash bros ofc :3

little mac is too OP :3

needs nerfs :3

[restive carbon]

YES BUT HE HAS MANY WEAKNESSES

THE BLUE SHELL HAS ONE AND THIS BUFF MAKES THE LSOASFDHLMNJKjnfdakhnjkafdmnkjhfda

😭

Idk why I'm so dedicated to this.

[worthy robin]

so does shell!!!
again, you can lock them in place with projectiles and you can groundpound them!!!

[worthy robin]

you are stubborn :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

who won

[worthy robin]

well,,,

lets just say blushell isnt looking too hot rn :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

can i see replay

[restive carbon]

😭 🙏

Listen, I got some cheesy kills but in 1v1s, it's not that OP.

Guess it's because I play FFA 99.9% of the time is why I find it OP there because I've died to some crazy stuff I swear

[upbeat nacelle]

...

so...

its not OP?

[restive carbon]

It's not terribly OP especially in 1v1s but I still stand by that it should not exist in the game.

It's not gonna get a lot of kills and hits. I can see that now. But man... it still will get some obnoxious hits and that's why I dislike it.

[pearl blaze]

I think its fine keeping it

[restive carbon]

I think it should be nerfed to where you get hit like someone tapped you on the head. At LEAST on the sides make it like that. The side tap literally flinging you just feels and looks wrong and slightly OP.

Again, I'd rather it be removed... but only slightly rather that be the case than nerfed.

[silk gazelle]

I play little Mac in FFA where he is more effective there 😭

Bro is not beating the allegations

[restive carbon]

okay this top recording is completely fair

[wheat harness]

TOOOO ebol

[restive carbon]

but I wouldn't count this one since my internet decided it's time has come

but the top game (and the 2 after it. the bottom clip vin posted was the 4th game we played) are completely fair

[restive carbon]

Gee it's almost like Little Mac and one part of a power-up are two completely different things and don't match up 100%. "Bro is not beating the allegations" 🥀

[worthy robin]

looking at the clip, every time you died you either did an approach that was doomed even if your ping was good and one kill where your ping went from 3 bars to 2 :'3

[pearl blaze]

holy t bag

[worthy robin]

they are extremely similar in concept!!!

high skill floor and can be very effective against players unaware of how to actually fight it :3

but when you get used to it theyre bad!~

[restive carbon]

my ping was flying from 30 ping to 100+ ping in the second clip

[worthy robin]

2 bars is less than 100 :'3

if you want i can get the desert game instead ;3

[restive carbon]

in the game it went over 100 Idk what to tell you

[restive carbon]

I will be honest, I got destroyed in that map. The Sky one was better.

You can get both the Sky one and Desert one if you want.

[worthy robin]

"fighting is a mental game"
** **- coach mcgurk :3

[restive carbon]

Sky has more examples on my side while Desert has more on ur side.

[worthy robin]

well,,, both were still losses :'3

havent fought ame on sky yet so i wasnt sure how to approach shell,,,

but its fine if shell can also be good!!!

its not overpowered is the main point ;3

shell shouldnt be useless, ideally it should clash with fire :3

maybe it needs a buff,,,

[restive carbon]

dude I really don't care (edit: well I do nvm I'm just tired of this convo sorry)
yes, I agree with u more now that if you are playing 1v1s, it's not as OP
I still think it should be nerfed because most people, including me, play FFA
again, it's not as OP as I thought even in FFA prob, but I still see it as OP. a gentle tap on the side should NOT fling a person. that is my opinion.

[worthy robin]

"little mac isnt as good in 1v1s i agree"
"little macs punches should NOT do that much damage, theyre just punches"
"little mac is too strong in ffa, and most people play ffa because its a party game so it needs nerfs"
:'3

[restive carbon]

I feel like even tho I lost the 1v1s, I still got some cheesy hits with the buff. But again, because I lost every game, it did make me realize that it's not super OP. But again... still OP especially more in FFA.

[worthy robin]

yes you were able to use if effectively a few times!!!
ideally blueshell shouldnt be complelty useless :3

[restive carbon]

I do not care for this Little Mac comparison at all
you are shoving my words from this conversation about the blue shell and making me say the same about Little Mac when I do NOT agree with that at all. These situations are not the same

[restive carbon]

yes but the point is that it's a bit OP

it was perfectly fine in the previous version

now it can get some stupid hits which feel unfair

[worthy robin]

if its overpowered youd wiiiin!~
if its overpowered beat me!~

[restive carbon]

that's all my argument is

[worthy robin]

overpowered means its so powerful it is unfair to fight against :'3

it is not overpowered :'3

[restive carbon]

again, like I've said, it's not that OP in 1v1s. I still feel it's OP in FFAs
it's like you rule out what I said like 2 minutes ago. I'm tired of repeating my points

[calm pagoda]

tbf its kinda different when you know someone's gonna be exclusively going for blue shell bumps

its like playing chess but going "i will be always doing $x"

[restive carbon]

that too

prob why I'm saying it feels more OP in FFA

but even tho you know I'm only using the blue shell, I still managed to get some cheesy hits on you

again, you've proved to me that it's not as broken as I see it

but I still dislike it

because I still think it's at least a little annoying and buff

especially in FFA

[worthy robin]

and so the game should be balanced towards ffa? :'3
what dictates that?
ffa is extremely unbalanced in so many ways!!!
and also winning is still super easy for me in ffa even if someone has blueshell in my experience :3

[calm pagoda]

opinons are mixed... maybe there should be a #polls and i should ping general notifs or something

make a new "poll notifications" role to ping or something

[restive carbon]

I'm not saying that. In general it feels a little too OP. Just more so in FFA.

[pearl blaze]

i readed that quote as "i will be always doing sex" for a second

[upbeat nacelle]

wow

ok

[restive carbon]

😭 🙏

[fickle yew]

just like how with the fire flower you can get insane combos and stuff?... (that could be seen as op like this but it's obviously not)
I'm not really sure what's wrong with the blueshell actually being a viable option besides some minor stuff and the bugs
-# unless you want every powerup to be boring and stuff..

[restive carbon]

because a fireball and comboes take skill AND make sense
a tap from the side of a slow moving (or NOT moving) jumping blue shell sending you flying does NOT make sense 😭

[silk gazelle]

To the fact that you said these situations are not the same: here is where I stopped, lemme see if I can find it.

[pearl blaze]

great idea, can be used for future balancing too and the entire server decides

[worthy robin]

but this is still a weird way to go about it,,,

if there was a community poll for nerfing little mac, for example, since theres a lot of people who play ffa in smash it would probably be pretty even :3

people voting on their gut instinct right away doesnt always work out,,,

[silk gazelle]

Here

[worthy robin]

thats why devs need to make the decisions!

[pearl blaze]

It's not like people choose to main a power-up in mvlo, specially blue shell

[worthy robin]

so? :'3

[wheat harness]

so lets use the poll as guidence instead of definitive

[fickle yew]

dude Mario being able to jump this high with this much flexibility makes no sense
yet obviously we wouldn't want to have realism be any sort of priority since it would make any Mario game way less fun

[restive carbon]

it honestly feels like a bug ngl
like imagine in Mario Kart if someone hit your kart with the side of their kart with a star and it sent you 10x further than it did
it would be weird and feel OP. that's how I feel about this.
NOW THAT is a better comparison than the Little Mac one

[wheat harness]

gg!

[pearl blaze]

You're always countering different power-ups so i think balancing stuff like this can be decided by polls if that doesnt hurt

It probably doesnt need a role for it?

[worthy robin]

my point is that people voting on their gut instinct and giving the power to a majority who arent versed in game balance isnt a good idea :'3
ideally its the designers who should make the final call :'3

[pearl blaze]

I take back what i said earlier lol

[restive carbon]

Don't give me question marks. It MAKES SENSE! Am I in the Twilight Zone AGAIN?

[pearl blaze]

ah ok

[worthy robin]

me when i increase my weight stat:

[restive carbon]

it's not about realism
it's about consistency in the game
you are purposely making my argument look bad
withing the context of the game, it feels like a bug and OP

[silk gazelle]

Dang blue shell is about to get the mega knight treatment

[restive carbon]

I actually agree with this.

[restive carbon]

This is my best comparison. Please read. 😭 🙏

[worthy robin]

meta knight???
blue shells getting the little mac treatment :'3
blueshells getting the day 1 balance patch treatment :'3

[silk gazelle]

Mega... 😭

Clash Royale, sorry, diff game

I shoulda specified

[restive carbon]

lets say the bump from the side with a star just knocked you out a bit more than normal knock outs
and then Nintendo updated it and it knocks you 10x more
that's what I meant in the comparison with Mario Kart
that is how I feel about this Blue Shell change

[upbeat nacelle]

um

it would be fine actually

[restive carbon]

I read Meta Knight too. LOL

[upbeat nacelle]

same

[restive carbon]

10X KNOCK OUT WOULD BE FINE?

[upbeat nacelle]

yep

[restive carbon]

I REALLY AM IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE!

[worthy robin]

the problem with yoru comparison is that there is consistency with the current system :3
if you have blueshell and you crouch, you will always take strong kb, no ifs ands or buts :3
but in mario kart, randomly bumping into players would feel random because other karts dont do that :3

[calm pagoda]

its feedback- not "the poll is legally binding"

[worthy robin]

icic :'3

[restive carbon]

BRO that sends you FLYING off of the MAJORITY of the tracks. It would be AWFUL.

[worthy robin]

well-

[restive carbon]

Now I know ur ragebaiting.

That's an insane claim.

[worthy robin]

that is what the beach tile poll was :'3

[restive carbon]

Everyone is ragebaiting!!!

I'M LOSING MY MIND!

GET ME OUT!

[upbeat nacelle]

and into the void, where you are dropped back onto the track

[restive carbon]

OKAY BUT THE STAR KNOCK SHOULN'T EQUAL INSTANT DEATH!?!!??!?!

[worthy robin]

its not everyone ragebaiting its everyone telling you that something is fine and youre the one refusing to change your mind on it :'3

[fickle yew]

purposely?
idk you're just digging for literally any possible sliver of a reason that I should believe you
mvlo already isn't consistent with it's weird mix of accuracy and inaccuracy and different designers with different views, and what would you even consider consistency in this case then? there's always a consistent way to get the blue shell and there's always a consistent way the blue shell could fight back, rather than only having like two options
it doesn't really feel like a bug at all

[restive carbon]

but ur also going in circles when I say something to an argument before

[upbeat nacelle]

i mean, you can use a shell to take away their shell with a star, mega, or shell

wait

that maade no sense

[worthy robin]

honestly if one "old man yelling at cloud" gets something to change like boba is doing rn then im doing that for every accuracy feature and i will not change my mind and i will constantly argue day-in day-out :'3

[restive carbon]

the fact that a tap in the game does not send you flying
with all the actions in MVLO looked at, this side tap flinging you is the odd one out

[pearl blaze]

man.

[upbeat nacelle]

either they need to touch you, or you need to touch them. avoid both, and its not an issue

[fickle yew]

not really odd
maybe odd because like all the custom powerups just do basic bump or basic stomp while this one is actually unique

[restive carbon]

Every single person I've talked to in the game chat in MVLO has agreed with me.

Every single person.

[worthy robin]

we arent!!!
we've given you countless examples and you keep just responding with "look, my point is,,," :'3

[silk gazelle]

Brother you just described yourself

[stray portal]

this would be great, not only for the blue shell situation but also for many other future decisions. playtesters not sure or "fighting" over a decision? just poll it. so shrimple. i hope this happens and is used often

[restive carbon]

No! I say my side to a point and said point gets brought up later like I never said my point to it before!

Y'all are just gaslighting me now.

[upbeat nacelle]

calm down

[silk gazelle]

Alr one thing I wanna ask

[pearl blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-luigi-mario-and-luigi-mario-vs-luigi-mario-vs-luigi-online-gif-27696286

[silk gazelle]

Boba, do you think any point will get you to change your view?

[fickle yew]

man do you think hundreds of people who range in game design knowledge from none to some to a lot would be a good idea?

[stray portal]

yes

[worthy robin]

i think that could be phrased better,,,

[silk gazelle]

If not, then shake, agree to disagree.

[worthy robin]

boba, would there be anything we could say today that would change your mind?

would it even be possible?

[restive carbon]

It did slightly when me and Ham did a 1v1. I will actually take into account actions. My question is are YOU guys gonna change ur view? Doubt it. Y'all won't listen to me.

[silk gazelle]

I'm being blunt

[restive carbon]

Yes, we literally did. I now feel like it isn't as broken as before.

[pearl blaze]

Okay, so, will ipod make a non pinging poll asking how everyone feels about blueshell's sidebump?

[restive carbon]

See this is what I mean!

I say something and it gets disregarded and brought up later like I never answered!

We did a 1v1! Me and Ham!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I think you guys are doing this on purpose.

[wheat harness]

great to have diverse opinions, even if they aren't perfect!
as long as we don't take em as definitive and as advice it's great

[upbeat nacelle]

and you lost right?

[restive carbon]

YES! That's why I now see it not as OP in 1v1s! But I still do in FFA! Even 1v1s tho I still see it as a little OP. Even ipod backed me up with the 1v1 convo. 🥀

I'VE KEEP NEEDING TO BRING UP OLD INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!
But you guys keep bringing it back up to make my point look weaker.

[upbeat nacelle]

ffa is just 1 v 1 v 1xn

[restive carbon]

not really at all

[worthy robin]

we have listened and we dont agree!!!
we listened to your complaints about it causing cheesy kills and i responded by 1v1ing you!!!
we listened to your complaints about you thinking its overpowered in ffa and i brought up how ffa is wildly unbalanced for so many reasons that blueshell being good in it isnt a big deal!!!, should we nerf mega in ffa? bagging is overpowered so we should nerf it!, what about starman? in smash little mac is amazing in ffa, should we nerf him just because of that?

[fickle yew]

it's good to have a variety of opinions
why are like almost all the playtesters in mvlo pros then, and most don't really think about the casual players?

[stray portal]

idk but that's what a polls channel would account for

[restive carbon]

yes ur getting my main points but it's the small things that I have a counter to that get brought up later like I never talked about it

[worthy robin]

yes i am bringing up your points and saying the flaws in them!!!!

[fickle yew]

bandage solution strikes again

[upbeat nacelle]

give me a bullet list of your points

[worthy robin]

that we havent responded to*

[restive carbon]

STOP BRINGING UP THE LITTLE MAC THING LIKE I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS MATCHES EVERYTHING TO LITTLE MAC!
I do NOT agree Little Mac should be nerfed. You are ticking me off rn with this same example.

[upbeat nacelle]

no, all of them

[restive carbon]

The Mario Kart example matches WAY better and you have YET to comment about it.

[silk gazelle]

Not just "getting", breaking down and disproving

[worthy robin]

i did????

[restive carbon]

oh wait really?

[wheat harness]

casual playtesters are really hard to get
simply updating the game is a good way to playtest the casuals

[worthy robin]

^

[upbeat nacelle]

i did

[stray portal]

common democracy L

[restive carbon]

how exactly are you disproving my points besides saying erm it's not that OP actually because the blue shell has a weakness

[fickle yew]

yes but it's not very hard to also consider casuals when- okay this isn't even related to the suggestion 😭

[worthy robin]

that is the definition of disproving you :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

give me a bullet list of all your problems with it

[silk gazelle]

Yes.

[worthy robin]

if something has a weakness that big it is by definition not overpowered :'3

[silk gazelle]

Brother,, if it has a weak point it's not OP

[silk gazelle]

BAM, HIGH FIVE HAMS

[worthy robin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/727196761671729202/1486462819192012860/ezgif-33a664125746c536.gif

guys,

[restive carbon]

the star side hit in Mario Kart would always 10x you tho
I'm saying if Nintendo added an update to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (or World) today and made karts with a star knock others 10x further than previously

[worthy robin]

eyerock in sm64 is op :'3

he can crush you :'3

ignore his giant eyeballl weakspot :'3

[wheat harness]

idk you brought it up

a poll is still a great source of information reguardless
as long as it's just information...

[fickle yew]

yes but shouldn't be the definitive deciding factor

[restive carbon]

-a gentle tap from the side of a non or barely moving jumping shell should not fling a person like they got ground pounded. it feels like a bug

that's it

that's my one problem with it

[upbeat nacelle]

thats it?

[restive carbon]

YES!

[stray portal]

zomble literally no one ever said they'd be a definitive factor

[upbeat nacelle]

really?

[restive carbon]

That's my one and only problem with the change.

Yes.

[upbeat nacelle]

....

[restive carbon]

Well besides the actually bug but that's a different convo.

[fickle yew]

I know I'm just saying because I feel like it would be that

[wheat harness]

i've said that each time i said it was gud 🥹

[restive carbon]

I feel like this convo has become super overcomplicated. That one change annoys me. That's all this boils down to. And it annoys many others as well.

[upbeat nacelle]

yes

i agree

[restive carbon]

This suggestion only has 6 stars but everyone I've asked in game agrees it's too OP.

[upbeat nacelle]

it has been highly overcomplicated

[worthy robin]

so we have given a plathora of reasons why its balanced and why its better for making up for shells weaknesses and numerous examples on how it could be compared to other things,,,
and we will remove all of that because you personally dont think it acts the way you want it to :'3

[restive carbon]

The poll? I agree.

[upbeat nacelle]

everything is op until its not

[pearl blaze]

Prioritize releasing the collision bug fix first!

[fickle yew]

kbf you're basically dragging this out at this point 😭

[worthy robin]

yes :'3
we could probably just end everything there :'3

[restive carbon]

I think the side tap is too OP even with weaknesses in account because it feels like a bug due to how weird, unintuative, and cheesy it is.

[pearl blaze]

who tf horsed me

[spark raptor]

I love polls
i’ve made several reaction polls since normal ones arent allowed

[pearl blaze]

im going to grab you

[worthy robin]

okay so that wasnt your only point then :'3

[upbeat nacelle]

please dont

[spark raptor]

Nice way to measure community opinon, you should make them more often

[restive carbon]

That's a stupid sentence.
If we took away the Mega Mush's timer, would you still say that?

[upbeat nacelle]

yes

you can hide in a hole

or a pit

or just run

[calm pagoda]

and we can actually use message threads in the polls channel for discussing the polls in one central place omg great idea vic

[silk gazelle]

IMO. It does feel off, it's weird that something moving so slow can hit you that hard. But! If that is what makes it balanced, it's all good. It's moving slow! Take advantage of that Boba!!!!

[restive carbon]

It kind of is. It just adds onto what I said.
My point was a simplification of everything boiled into one sentence. It's not gonna have everything. Again, this is old info. It feels like you aren't listening to old points I've already given.

I'm so tired of repeating things.

[worthy robin]

you misunderstand,,,
thats like someone saying "actions speak louder than words" and you reply with "well what if i declare war on you? huh? huh???"
its a saying :'3

[restive carbon]

THANK YOU!

well the first half 🥀 😭

[silk gazelle]

Yup, I was waiting for that

[restive carbon]

IMO it doesn't make it balanced
it just gives the blue shell user a way to cheese someone if they miss

[silk gazelle]

And that's where we agree to disagree

[restive carbon]

okay 👍

[silk gazelle]

Hi boba, how has your day been?

[worthy robin]

-# "you keep bringing the argument in a circle" person when they circle the argument :'3

[restive carbon]

Good. You? 😭 🙏

[pearl blaze]

who wants to play mvlo

[restive carbon]

I only have to when you ask something about a point I already made.

[upbeat nacelle]

me

[silk gazelle]

Yeah it been good