1.7 groundpound mechanics.

[loud ice]

Since 2.0 came out, lot of players have complained that you can't groundpound as easily as in 1.7, and I am one of them, but Ipod said that no, nothing changed, which lead to this suggestion https://discord.com/channels/956396409731551263/1394995858570874901 which I don't think will fix anything, but you should still take a look at it.

The difference between 1.7 and 2.0

So there's actually a difference compared to 2.0: in 1.7 if you are pressing both down and left/right in midair, and let go of left/right, you will input a groundpound, which isn't the case in 2.0, you can try it by yourself.

And I believe that it's why so many people complained. In 2.0 you gotta actually press down after releasing the direction, otherwise you won't do a groundpound, even if you let go of left/right.

So of course I'm suggesting to bring this back in 2.0.

It does also mean that you can accurately control between crouching or groundpounding (in 1.7), so no need of the ground detection that makes us all crouch instead of groundpound when we are too close to the ground, which also created another problem:

You know how on Sky (since 2.0), when you walljump on the right of the spawn above the semisolid, it's very easy to mess up? Part of why is because if you press down while jumping through a semi solid and continue holding down, you will never buffer a groundpound no matter how far you are from the semisolid, which doesn't make any sense. It's caused by that check.

So I suggest to remove the ground detection for crouching, and give the ability to buffer groundpounds after releasing left/right.

This also means that we would be able to groundpound anytime as long as we are in the air, and that we would crouch only when touching the ground, just like in 1.7.

[fading sky]

so,,, you want to make the game more easier?,,,
i could already get used to the groundpound of the game, i honestly like how strict is the groundpound now cuz its also accurate!

all what i can say is "get used to it" cuz tbh i dont find anything wrong with the groundpounds
aint going to deny that it was hard to do groundpounds in 2.0 when it was released, but once you play more you re going to get used to it!

i like how strict the controls are, idk

[loud ice]

It's not really easier, it's just making the players more free of their actions. I did get used to it but it doesn't make it more right. I didn't need any help crouching in 1.7.

[fading sky]

its just timing stuff, i rarely ended up crounching instead of doing a groundpound

[fervent panther]

imo i like things that take a lot of time and skill and finesse to get used to!
but if im being honest, a mechanic as simple as ground pounding is so basic it shouldnt be one of these things :'3

[loud ice]

If it's rare I see no issue making it more straight forward for everyone.
Also you can say that you like how it is currently, it is your opinion, but do you actually like how the groundpounds work with semisolids currently?

[fading sky]

if we talk about sky semisolids, not at all
but thats the only issue that i could find, really
since i dont play sky a lot maybe thats why i dont see the issue at all :P

[loud ice]

You know, adding this wouldn't make it any different for you, it would just help most players do their groundpound instead of just not doing it at all just because you pressed down one frame too early.

Consequence of this is the other suggestion I mentionned.

I am not the only annoyed by it. Yes you can get used to it but why make it unintuitive in the first place?

[fading sky]

i assume its accuracy stuff, i dont really know
but tbh i kinda hated how easy it was to groundpound anytime in 1.7 (or even gpc, which its unrelated here lol)
i feel like the game should be a bit strict with the controls cuz that would be... "balanced" (?) somehow
what i mean with "balanced" is that since the game is more harder to control in 2.0, its more easy to do comebacks! everyone would have almost the same skill! (kinda) unlike 1.7 where everything was unbalanced and players could just destroy you since the game gives you a total freedom with the controls
ok, lets go back to the groundpound thing
yes, it may be annoying that sometimes you cant groundpound after a walljump but tbh i like how it works cuz again, its strict and all of this its just timing (and also thats kinda how the og works,,,)

idk maybe im already used to it

if you re really competitive at the game well,,, yeah you might find this annoying, even if its a small thing

[loud ice]

I'm not gonna start debating about how I think 1.7 gave as many options to get creative and required as much skill as 2.0.
This is not "balance", why ever make things unintuitive? Why ever make groundpounds, one of the most basic actions, limited for some random reason? Giving more freedom to the players is the best way of making a game skilled/creative in my opinion.
How would it be a problem?

And well yeah I won't lie that I'm very competitive regarding MvLo, and it's why I want this in.

[fading sky]

welp, thats fair
everyone has different visions about something! and i understand that :]

[drowsy radish]

even though it's subjective, and 1.7 is still there, most people dont care too much and just play the newest version

i'd suggest a toggle, but i'm so going to get clown reacted

[loud ice]

I don't understand what you mean

Yeah 1.7 is still there, and.. ?
Also a toggle for this seems a bit overkill

[hoary python]

A little hard for me to follow (im a little slow so forgive me if im not accurate here) but i agree with Player1 tbh. A toggle works as an appropriate solution to both sides in this arguement because even if you were to go back to 1.7 for ground pounds, thats just one good aspect of 1.7 you are letting slide in exchange with the many other things wrong with 1.7. Imo think the "accuracy" arguement is reasonable only to a specific extent because imo it disregards room for new, creative implementation from ipod that doesnt stem from the original game (in this case the 1.7 gp mechs) and I think having a toggle works for both accuracy enthusiasts (rose in this case) and freedomists (snayp in this case) + I genuinely dont think having this feature would set a precedent between casuals and comps that would make it more difficult to make a comeback as things like hitstun and combos can effectively compensate for this.

[loud ice]

I would like an accuracy toggle yes, but this is not about making a 1.7 toggle

[opaque current]

it's so weird the first statement...
the release made controllers be able to input left/right and down, to groundpound (unless you moved the stick slowly i believe), not sure why keyboard was avoided :p
so I don't have the issue, but i DID have the issue before that was implemented for controllers...
i'd think implementing that for keyboard would be nice, it's pretty much just a good change :)
-# whenever i play with keyboard, my playstyle has shifted to not hold directions in the air sometimes just to get around that, has its own benefits but very few folks are playing like that so i still agree

the ground detection i'm more mixed upon, there's benefits to having it and not perhaps a mix between the two... could be janky tho

2.0 groundpound is strictly better in all other ways i'd say!

[opaque current]

i disagree with the toggle idea tho
would just make the game more inconsistent to play
better to separate such mechanics between entries, not entry
a mkwii toggle in mk8 deluxe sounds... yeah...

[loud ice]

I'm against the idea of a toggle for this specifically (at this rate we're going to have a million toggles), but if we need an accuracy toggle so that people stop arguing and so that we finally can have a good game i'm all in

[fervent panther]

"make controls worse? y/n" :'3

[unreal raptor]

I'm fairly sure that Ipod is actually making these changes in the next upcoming minor update which is EXTREMELY hype!
Literally the not being able to groundpound right above ground was my least favorite thing about 2.0.

I'm a Sky and Beach fan so it is pain. Well... not as big of a Sky fan as I was.

[drowsy radish]

I mean there's 1.7, also some mods that allow custom settings (showdown mod). But i guess the player base would be smaller compared to vanilla

[drowsy radish]

Personally, I'm all for many toggles, to customize the game more and give more options

It would satisfy everyone, basically

I don't understand what's bad about toggles at this point

Make a menu for it. Advanced settings or something

[narrow garden]

Overcomplicated UI and options for casuals

[narrow garden]

That would fix the issue... but still, casuals won't know all the little tweaks and could be lost if they don't notice mechanics have been toggled on or off

[drowsy radish]

the game is rather deep, with many hidden strats and techniques. noobs will be thrown off regardless

there is a learning curve for everything

[unreal raptor]

As someone who's played the game for a while, I still sometimes get fricked up with the new ground pound mechanics... and it feels WAY more restrictive for no reason. Sometimes I swear I do everything right for the new conditions of ground pounding but then it just doesn't work and then I die. It feels less about learning a new skill and more of... an core mechanic updated in a way that feels less fun and intuitive... making it more frustrating.

[drifting drum]

yeah