[Updated] NEW Mountains Map Design!!!

[bronze lava]

its not about if i want or not
if you have something to say, say it

[tired agate]

there's room for improvement

[sand crypt]

for me like
opinion is fine n all, but you should've of atleast read a bit of the thread and share your thoughts here instead of keeping them away, criticism is the way to go for a suggestion like this

[plucky crypt]

if you have access to the message, you know that i've already explained there my reasons of why i don't like it, it's not like I'm doing this because i don't like it for no reason
I am not forcing anyone to downvote this

Pretty much everything had been said already, but no real reaction from anyone it seemed so

[inland ravine]

damn this level is SEXY

[tired agate]

if you have explained your reasons, why don't you say them here

[plucky crypt]

but you should've of atleast read a bit of the thread
i did, i wouldn't be doing anything otherwise

[rugged otter]

I'd just like to clear myself out of this, I already shared my opinion before this. And agreed with Snayp to express some form of disagreement. That's it.

[plucky crypt]

okay, let me share the screenshot of what i said

[river needle]

If there is only one opinion that counts here it's ipod's.. they decide if they want to include this map or not

so it's pointless to keep talking about who likes what, I feel-

it's not like some extra likes or extra dislikes are going to change anything, in the end

[bronze lava]

yk whats the problem here...
hold on

[rugged otter]

He is not forcing anybody to downvote... he even respects the ones who likes it :/

[bronze lava]

Now why am I making such a big deal of this? 2 reason:

1. Lot of people like the map, and i do think it lacks negative representation, so I want to motivate people that have the same opinion to add their reaction and show that no it's not only positive reactions

2. Ipodtouch has shown his interrest in the map, and I really don't want to see this map in mvlo with how it is currently.

It's not entirely bad though, the layout is good, the coins are well placed, and the wheel looks really fun to play on! But that's not good enough to make it an official Mvlo map in my opinion.
I agree that we need a mountain map, but that's not what I'm expecting.

this is from the server

i still dont see a reason for not telling your opinion here anyways

like, everyone has different opinions

maybe everyone likes something and you dont
or maybe everyone dont like something that you do

[rugged otter]

cuz everybody would have gone against him

[tired agate]

So you would rather

want them to quietly

downvote

no opinion no nothing

and that would be better for everyone?

or just themself

[rugged otter]

I did not quietly downvote, I expressed my opinion yesterday

[plucky crypt]

The suggestions threads are always so agressive, as I said i didn't want to start a war and i also didn't want to get ripped apart by everyone here

[tired agate]

We're not ripping you apart we're questioning your decisions here

[bronze lava]

if you give terrible arguments, yeah, maybe
but in general if you give an opinion with respect, it wouldnt be that bad

[rugged otter]

I guess yes, unlike zomble in spiky's castle suggestion

[bronze lava]

thats... other case...
totally unrelated with this one

[rugged otter]

True sorry

[sand crypt]

nobody would attack you for saying your dislikes
multiple people have shown different opinions and we all talked through it

[plucky crypt]

I guess you're right

[gilded gyro]

What happened to frosty's mountain design

that one looked very promising i think?

[sturdy steppe]

what are you talking about?

[sand crypt]

oh nah looking back at that map it was kinda flawed lol

[rugged otter]

brother you're stupid, i defended you

[sturdy steppe]

no im not

[sand crypt]

it did have gimmicks and a big layout, but the ledge mechanic wasnt well planted

[sturdy steppe]

i didn't saw what you say that's why i say wdym

[gilded gyro]

whatwhat wdym say say what

[rugged otter]

go check it out <3

[spiral crescent]

I like the fact it's symetrical but, let's say... the mega mush feels more op than ever
concept isn't that bad but idk, feels... off
not counting all the projectiles from above going all down (bc that would be a mess)
I personnaly don't like the map, even if there are some good ideas ngl

[sand crypt]

they're talking about zomble's tone with your castle map suggestion

[sturdy steppe]

A yes he was agressive

[river needle]

The thing is, most of the critique is about how the map looks right now,
and obviously the map right now had to stay in between the limits of the NSMB editor.
Of course, it can (and probably will) look different in MvLO

[sand crypt]

i think it might be the lack of mountain tileset-ing that would make it feel odd lol
like, most of the map is hard and brick blocks

[gilded gyro]

Idk theres only 1 thing im sure of:
It's good for 1v1, with 8 coins and customs off

thats all i know

[sand crypt]

yeah it still needs to be playtested in mvlo

[spiral crescent]

yeah and yet, fireflower would be kind of OP if all fireballs going down

only way to survive would be blueshell? (if no starman or mega)

feels a bit too campy

[river needle]

even if they attack from the top, they wouldn't be able to get the stars to win

[spiral crescent]

attack from the spinning thing

[sand crypt]

theres a lot of celing and the map isnt so linear so i think thats not seen so often unless the player is at the top of the rickshaw and if the targets are where the top spinner is

[river needle]

it's blocked by mega

[sand crypt]

they mean the platform

[spiral crescent]

not the spinner

yea sorry xD

[river needle]

but yet, stars would still fall

so to get them it requires the player to move

[spiral crescent]

then grab and climb again

[gilded gyro]

propeller

[river needle]

and then they get attacked by hammer

[rugged otter]

Anyone would get attacked by the hammer lmao

[spiral crescent]

you can still camp with hammer

[gilded gyro]

i dont think hammer is able to fly 45 kilometers up the air

[river needle]

exactly lmao-

but even if you camp on top, you have to go down to collect the stars; and stars spawn on the lowest level anyway.. so not much point in camping on top

[spiral crescent]

I understand if you like the map, just not my type of maps

[river needle]

I spent most of the time yesterday seeing how the map could work-
I'm alright with it, it looks cool and different from the others (for a change)

[rugged otter]

Steamed Hams gonna have a field day reading all that

[gilded gyro]

Bro probably wont be able to keep up with the cute faces

[rugged otter]

yup ^v^

[sand crypt]

tbh hammer is already an issue as it is i dont think any map is saved lol

[spiral crescent]

not a hater of the map but feels off for me

[river needle]

poor one-

[sand crypt]

this is jst one of the worser maps in which to fight against hammer

[river needle]

yeah.. many maps had a safe spot for mini, now no one does lmao

[spiral crescent]

hammer powerup was always a problem since 2.0 xD

[river needle]

It is a cool power up but it breaks many past maps

[spiral crescent]

I mean, the only way to maybe change opinion is to try ourselves the map a few times, not talking about the playtesters already but for people who don't like the map

[spiral crescent]

past maps + beach I think

[river needle]

It is to test in a 10 player lobby

[mossy plank]

Hammer power up in fortress 💀

[gilded gyro]

Hammer NEEDS to be disabled in fortress

[spiral crescent]

didn't think of that xD
could try that too (mega is gonna kill the whole lobby xD)

[mossy plank]

THIS IS SO TRUE

[spiral crescent]

if blueshell then it's over

[river needle]

Hammer in fortress is so funny

Bros think they're safe

[spiral crescent]

anyways

[sand crypt]

i think the map should be tested with like 4 players atleast

10 players we already know whats happening lol

[bronze lava]

hai vinolar :3

[gilded gyro]

ipod usually tests with 5-6

[tired agate]

hai

yesterday I was one of those 5-6

until I went to bed

[gilded gyro]

didnt ask

[tired agate]

fuck you bitch

unfriended

blocked

police called

[gilded gyro]

L + ratio

[tired agate]

you use luigi

no words

Hai vindollar btw

[gilded gyro]

you use MARIO

[tired agate]

can I be your friend too

[spiral crescent]

wth

[worn topaz]

hhh,,, ill adress this one by one,,,

looks:

i already stated in this post that im limited with NSMBe, please read the thread :'3

its too vertical:

no fireballs (and hammers in the future as theyll have fade out because hammers are a problem in volcano) do not attack you from heaven, the platforms and bricks stop this happening very well and in our playtests even after firing a load of fireballs in the aether from me and everyone else doing the same thing, we have never run into a fireball,
if youre worried about fireballs coming out of nowhere, i would like to avert your attention to grassland and ice world completely flat surfaces, you would assume that there would be a million fireballs there, right? well, no this doesnt happen in practice

---

the stars are poorly placed:

the stars are not just to stop camping, please read the starter message, they are there so that you know where the stars have spawned when one does, so you arent spending all your time searching for it, you already know itll be in the cluster of stars, the top part is not just a coin farm, the coins are very spread out and the powerup is positioned high up so it takes time to get to, its very easy to follow your opponent up there as it takes a lot of time for them to get all said coins,
the top area is meant to also be an area of reprieve, where you can consider your approach options from above
also yes, the bottom is a place where you mainly fight, i thought this was established already, you havent stated a reason why this is bad you just said you personally dont like it :"3

pipes are bad:

bullet bills do not work, read the messages in the thread please :"3 we cannot add decor because of NSMBe limitations, please read the messages in the thread, also, spin blocks and blue koopas dont appear in ice levels yet theyre there, mountain barely has any unique gimmicks, so considering 1 of them is unusable, 1 of them (fireballs) is too dnagerous, and of on them is spin blocks,,, i dont see this argument :"3

it looks bad:

please
read
the messages
in
the
thread
:'3

[sand crypt]

i already see multiple crying cat faces i have bad signs

[bronze lava]

if you see vinolar adding a lot of crying cats faces you should know already that you re doing something wrong...

[worn topaz]

the respect is in small text
the call to action is in bold text
what else are you expecting?

-# guys you can like it if you dio thats fine!

i downvoted it and i urge you if you read my personal take on it downvote it

:'3

[rugged otter]

Welp it's not small text, just regular

[worn topaz]

it is smaller by comparsion :'3

[bronze lava]

big text stands up more than the small text, duh

[worn topaz]

this just seems very disingenious,,,

you guys talked about it privatly, and instead of imediatly coming here for clarification, to provide arguments, to state your opinions, you first flooded it with downvotes,,,

[rugged otter]

To be fair, that was the first intention of this message, calling other people who didn't like it to downvote it. Then he expressed his opinions with multiple points

[slim glade]

yeah okay then why didn't he just express his opinion to begin with

[rugged otter]

Not denying it was a call for downvotes

[slim glade]

i don't know
again feels a bit cowardly

[rugged otter]

I invite you to read the argument of the past hour

[worn topaz]

if he urged people to downvote it, then he spends an entire paragraph stating why its bad, and no reason why its good, thats so mean!!!!

[slim glade]

I've known of the message before so.

[worn topaz]

thats genuinely so mean :"3

[bronze lava]

also saying that "ipod already knows the existence of the map, i dont want to see it in mvlo" is even worse lmao

[rugged otter]

Welp since Lust snitched, he came here and was finally able to tell everything. Not his smartest move but understandable when you sometimes see how people react in here

[worn topaz]

he gave this no fair chance, he never stated for others to see my reasonings, he only stated everything negative about the map, showed the map without any of my reasonings why it works, and then calls people to downvote it!!!

[worn topaz]

and if he didnt youd let this be purely private with no reasons as to why theres downvotes???

[sand crypt]

-# what is that last part supposed to mean

[slim glade]

Like Alexis, you are correct in the fact that they didn't force anybody to downvote.
But making such a big deal about "I really don't like this map, and if you don't like it too, you should dislike it and stuff!"
I don't like the fact that he didn't give any big criticisms straight up to vin's face
and he WOULDN'T've if it weren't for the message being leaked.

That's my take on the whole thing, it's the switch-up after the whole thing that bothers me.

[worn topaz]

@rugged otter
please read this and please give an honest opinion if you think this is fair or not, applying to anything at all, not just an MvL map :'3

[rugged otter]

To be honest only 4 of us downvoted and Windows and myself expressed our own opinion before

[bronze lava]

unrelated

[slim glade]

but did snayp

he's the one who did the entire thing

[slim glade]

and I mean directly to vin's face.

[river needle]

All he did was criticize the things we already spent an entire day talking about, yesterday..

I'd say
@worn topaz
just put why the map would work in the main post I guess.. with all the reasonings behind and all the things people may miss

so nothing of this happens again-

[worn topaz]

wait i see what youre saying now, well, i cant unfortunatly, the problem is ive already reached discord character limit :'3

[young flume]

floof respectfully i don’t think you needa be here

fueling the arguement

[rugged otter]

Since you went through the whole map, we will obviously be redundent and be talking about the same things... Doesn't prevnt us from saying we don't like that specific stuff or that about the map. It would even show the weakness of the current design (if so many people dislike one part)

[young flume]

what’s stopping people from just camping the cluster btw

me and playtesters were discussing yesterday

[worn topaz]

people approaching from the top?

using the pipe???

ive stated this :'3

[young flume]

but what about the platforms

[river needle]

yeah, just ask the creator of the map why she made those decisions, duh.
You look like those people on YouTube disliking content only because it's from a game they don't like

[worn topaz]

which, the brick ones you can fall to using the donuts?

[young flume]

that supposedly block things

[slim glade]

Miibumm, with all due respect I've been known about this message since a while.
I just don't like that fact that snayp did this behind bro's back.
And the fact that this is being defended by "oh people said the same stuff that we said" feels a bit scape-goaty idk.
The whole problem I have is the sentiment, but I do apologise if my approach seemed hostile.

[rugged otter]

You seem to miss something here. It's not because the creator of the map said it, that it's 100% true and will apply to regular multiplayer. Now you're being hateful

[slim glade]

Didn't wanna immediately seem like I was mauling alexis immediately or anything my bad.

[worn topaz]

many of the platforms stop the fireballs, 90% of the time fireballs get stopped by the grey bricks on the spintop of the 2 brick platforms by the top of the rickshaw due to it being a 3-wide gap :3

it works very well ^v^

[river needle]

I can understand but don't do it silently.. that's just hate, not criticism

[sand crypt]

the only thing that gets through that is hammer i think

but thats being changed

[young flume]

so wouldn’t that be good for people camping the cluster for stars

[worn topaz]

what are you talking about :'3
you didnt ask me anything :"3

[rugged otter]

We know, no need to repeat it

[worn topaz]

you just downvoted it :'3

[rugged otter]

I was there yesterday fyi

[young flume]

if everyone knows where they are generally then there’s no exploration for them

[bronze lava]

at this point if yall have to say something, say it
dont say in a big text "if you dont like it, downvote it" because that literally looks like if you re sending your followers to downvote it (even if that wasnt your intention)

[river needle]

Let's not repeat the same mistakes again though-
It is a cool map, cool new gimmick.. all can still be improved, it's not like this is the final design either

so suggestions are welcome (not hate)

[worn topaz]

im not sure i see your point,,,
camping the clusters, from where?
you cant camp them, i played with probably the most campy MvL player there is and they couldnt even begin to camp them in any way, no matter how hard they tried, the ability to drop in from above just makes it impossible :'3

[bronze lava]

exaaactly

[steady bronze]

the problem is that by links to forum posts will focus your screen on the first message only, which included just the design and not any of the reasoning behind it; so it really was just a "look at this map without context and downvote it"

[young flume]

if you’re standing around the areas of where they spawn you can just get them quickly

[worn topaz]

^v^

finally,,,

[young flume]

i see this level as get propeller and win

[steady bronze]

one issue with stars always being in the middle is that it seems easy to block all star spawns at once

[young flume]

that too

[river needle]

Yup- that's why I suggested to update it..

[worn topaz]

and then someone drops in from above while youre doing that and its over :'3

[young flume]

again, the platforms blocking things

[rugged otter]

Almost anytime a suggestion has been made, Steamed Hams "debunked" it by saying well actually we playtested it and it's not true.
However not everybody plays the same, so as a full release we would see all the flaws, just like 2.0 currently (with the bugs and all)

[young flume]

free protection

[steady bronze]

and you act like we woudlnt playtest it?

[worn topaz]

i could position them better so they dont get blocked, the the radius for blocking is so much lower in 2.0 this doesnt seem like a big issue,
again, we can make changes if stars really do stop spawning for long periods of time ^v^

[steady bronze]

if a stage fundamentally doesn't work then it wouldn't get included period (fortress being an exception ofc)

[river needle]

I suggested a bunch of stuff yesterday and we reasoned why it wouldn't work together

[worn topaz]

the brick platforms can be stood on to better get a grasp of where your opponent is, one of the clips of us fighting above shows Luigi doing exactly this :3

[rugged otter]

Yeah but like, then we'd try to keep arguing after the debunk and there's just no way to be heard besides being seen as hateful or bad criticism

[worn topaz]

sending a private message to a very populated private server first with no messages here for clarification and a call to action to downvote it in text 3x bigger then the "repect" message and linking to the post with no context for its strenghs is being hateful, and it is bad critisism as youve only surrounded yourself with negative opinions :'3

youve already done that :'3

[rugged otter]

Alright tell that to Snayp, not me 😭

[river needle]

Hams can attest that we talked about many opportunities..
Bullets won't work because they don't despawn, flying koopas because they're hard to hit when running and bobombs because they won't drop coins when exploding

and a mini spot would just make the mini player op

[sand crypt]

-# makes up for the nerf doesnt it :clueless:
propeller does look like it'd be strong here.. but i'd only say it for getting to the naturally spawned stars faster, i dont think it'd be that good offensively because of how you can get higher ground easier

[young flume]

ok like if i’m here,
obviously in mvlo the camera is bigger, so i can see more. there’s nothing really stopping me from just hanging around here for the stars as i can see people coming and can act accordingly

[sand crypt]

mini is kinda already a bit op as is in the map due to how open it is (you can see me in one of the clips juking around)

[young flume]

i can also go here for full prot against 90% of things

[worn topaz]

that might just be a problem with propellor in general though,,,
its exeptional on bricks, grassland, bonus, already ^v^'

[worn topaz]

and when someone stands above you you cannot move anymore, youve trapped yourself :"3

[sand crypt]

yeah the camera is def something i was worried about cus i thought it'd make camping a bit weaker but also stronger in a way

[rugged otter]

I followed most of the argument, I see why some stuff won't work. My biggest concern is only that the level could be put in Sky theme, and we would have no idea it was first intented as a Mountain level, because this is not obvious with the current design.
But I'm all for a new map, just a bit different from this suggestion

[bronze lava]

zoom in the camera 🧠

[river needle]

Propeller would, but the map is too high and propeller doesn't go that high
Plus there's a ceiling

[sand crypt]

yeah that spot looks like its just a self trap if you stay there lmao

[young flume]

good players know how to benefit from this

if anything the person above is trapped

[worn topaz]

good players will benifit more than bad players :'3

i cannot design a map where you can win despite being bad :"3

[rugged otter]

That makes sense

[river needle]

Put ice in grassland style and you wouldn't know it was supposed to be ice-

[young flume]

you can’t?

[worn topaz]

i can ig, but id rather not : ' 3

[rugged otter]

Literally the ice blocks and slippery surface looking at you 👀

[river needle]

replace those as well-

[young flume]

ur message is saying “i cant make a map where you can win, even if ur bad”

[rugged otter]

My example works yours doesn't. Cuz I'm not changing no tiles

[river needle]

Ik I was just joking

[rugged otter]

aight just say it then lmfao

[worn topaz]

also, i feel like this is fitting for mountains more as it feels like youre scaling a mountain!!!
think of 6-6 for example :3

[river needle]

we're talking about the current design of the map though,
not how it'd look in mvlo

[rugged otter]

Sorry I don't know all nsmb DS levels by heart

literally my fault

[steady bronze]

6-6, for context

[rugged otter]

I do remember the level now that I see it

[sand crypt]

i think this is a bit of a weird point just?
like look at jungle, its the ''hardcore'' custom map due to the massive amount of pits, do we expect a bad player to win in a map like this..?

[scarlet cloak]

If they're up against another bad player maybe.... I guess?

[worn topaz]

yes,
you stated good players will know how to benifit from it,
okay :'3
they will, good players learn how to benifit from it, if youre a bad player and you cant deal with it youll lose,
and if youre another good player youll know the counterplay so it wont work for them anymore :'3
this is even to suggest that that spot is good anyways, for me if you just stand on a semisolid above and shoot fireballs down there i see no way this could benifit anyone anymore :'3

[young flume]

the same semisolid scenario can be done in like 3 other maps

[sand crypt]

exactly!
i dont think its a fair point to say that a good player will benefit from something while a bad player wont when thats how it works and is already present in current mvlo...

[worn topaz]

-# yes, exactly,,,? and ive never seen it benifit anyone once :'3

[scarlet cloak]

haven't seen many people use it either

[young flume]

my argument is that designing mostly around bad players is kinda boring for the better ones

[sand crypt]

ah ic

[worn topaz]

its not designed only for bad players!
i mentioned above a lot about counterplay, getting better positioning from above, aspects to stop camping, in my response to snayps post i talked a lot about the game from a competitive standpoint!

^v^

[scarlet cloak]

usually levels should be designed for basically everyone in a Mario game
that's the standard I imagine...

[worn topaz]

(not to mention, grassland is literally 1-1, an environment specifically made so that worse players will know the map layout right away, it wasnt thought with competitive players in mind and yet its the most popuar competitive map) :'3

[river needle]

And that's why in Mario games you can skip levels if you want-

[scarlet cloak]

if a map was made for bad players only it would be boring and easy..

[rugged otter]

Alright so I think debate time is over for me, I think I have wasted enough of your (and my) time. I'll remove my downvote because it is originated from a clumsy call. Doesn't mean I fully support the map though
Waiting to see how this will turn out, hopefully in a good way :)

[compact totem]

this map has so many messages

[river needle]

I guess this is the thread with most messages in general-

[scarlet cloak]

I guess you could say

[young flume]

reading through it i don’t see a bunch about a competitive standpoint

[compact totem]

i dont really like it to be honest

[scarlet cloak]

it's a mountain of messages

[compact totem]

it could be more horizontal

[young flume]

which i’m not saying i’m competitive
i’m like casually competitive

[compact totem]

https://tenor.com/view/mario-super-mario-64-sm64-super-mario-goku-gif-2924386200580697487

[river needle]

Then it would be yet another horizontal map-

[compact totem]

no no no

[scarlet cloak]

might feel a bit too big if it was a bit more horizontal

[compact totem]

its very vertical though

wait i need another look

[worn topaz]

hm,,, that couldve been from my DM message to him then,,, both were long,,,

[compact totem]

i forgot what it looked like

[sand crypt]

@compact totem

[compact totem]

its still a little to thin i feel

one more chunk and it would be fibne

[worn topaz]

thats by design!~
the map is meant to feel like youve already explored it all horizontally, which encourages you to explore it vertically instead!

you loop by the stage fast, think "oh, thats it," then you start going up/down!

[scarlet cloak]

wait vin I just realized

[sand crypt]

its bricks size
i think if it was a chunk wider it would be too big...

[worn topaz]

hm?

[scarlet cloak]

what would happen if someone ground pounded the vine block so it goes upside down

[sand crypt]

nothing interesting

[compact totem]

oh

[sand crypt]

they just remove the vine till the next respawn basically

[scarlet cloak]

eh you're right frosty

frosty I swear I better not catch you doing that

[compact totem]

what if ipod codes it to go up thougj?

[sand crypt]

i think like if he made it go only up it would be anti intuitive a bit even if its for the better

cause if you gruondpound something its MEANT to go down, it goes up if you jump to it

[compact totem]

i want a level with on and off blocks to drop player in a pit

now thats intuitive

im too good at level design 😎

[worn topaz]

(honestly i think that could make the vine more viable, i like that idea ^v^)

[worn topaz]

i think theres a mario maker stage for that!

[compact totem]

people who say mario maker levels are bullshit have clearly never seen wendys fuckass castle from mario world

[zealous portal]

Does NOBODY Get The Power Of Pipes 💀
-# dw, it makes sense Cuz the two maps that use them are used Poorly!

I Find That Interesting to think about 🤔

[worn topaz]

do you think theyre implemented well here,,,? ^v^'

[zealous portal]

i'd say so
they are out of the way and can't be entered continuously

[plucky crypt]

i already stated in this post that im limited with NSMBe, please read the thread :'3
does that really change the fact that it still just blocks and bricks.. ? because that was what i was talking about there

the stars are not just to stop camping, please read the starter message
i didn't know for the second reason, my bad, but i said "The issue is that I think it makes the bottom part an arena and the top part a coin farm, i don't see what's interresting in that", that's my reason of why it's bad imo, and it's not because it is intended that i can't say i think it's bad

bullet bills do not work, read the messages in the thread please :"3
i knew for the bullet bills, i mentionned them as "more iconic elements from mountain levels", as in it would be nice to have them (= not a vertical level but a horizontal one where it's possible to have them)

So thank you i did read, there's no argumentation without knowing what the others say
The reason why i didn't send my opinion here is because i didn't want to start a war as I said if you 'read the thread' and because there are a lot of positive reactions, i didn't want to get scolded by everyone :3
Also my points had already been mentionned I believe

You can call me a coward but that's not fair. I have the right of sharing my opinion and I did not just send an army to "flood" the thread with thumbs down, there was at most 5 of them, even in the bold text i only said " if you don't (like it) either"
not an order, just a signal for people that share my opinion to show it with me
(btw only 22 people got pinged, and amongst them you have 10 actives at most)

finally, i didn't only say bad thing about it:

It's not entirely bad though, the layout is good, the coins are well placed, and the wheel looks really fun to play on!

I will agree on 2 things:

1. if someone appeared out of nowhere and looked at my message, it is true that they don't get a lot to possibly like the map, even if i linked the thread.

2. As I didn't try the map myself, I can be wrong, but all i get is a picture so I do my best with it

And as Laxan said (i think?) it doesn't really matter in the end, all i did was ask people to react if they agree with me, nothing more.

sorry for all that mess, it's exactly what i didn't want
no hate to no one

[compact totem]

why are we acting like ipod touch said this vro

[worn topaz]

even so,,, it should be worth noting that:
you are very trusted figure there as you are the owner of the server, and there was a lot more in-depth about the negatives then the positives, i know you dont like the map but i feel like itd still be fair to at least urge people to read up on both sides to form their opinion,,,

im also sorry i misinterpreted you not having read the thread, however from your message it did give that off a lot, without the clarifications you gave here it didnt seem at first like you had read it very thoroughly, :'3

[plucky crypt]

i know you dont like the map but i feel like itd still be fair to at least urge people to read up on both sides to form their opinion,,,
you are right

[worn topaz]

^v^

im glad we could talk about this ^v^

[worn topaz]

snayp is one of if not the best MvL player in EU (and possibly all of MvL in general) and the owner of a competitive MvL server, not just some random :"3

[plucky crypt]

I'm flattered

[worn topaz]

-^v^-

i will say though, its not entirely fair for everyone to read the entire thread to be aware of any question they have anyways,,,

i should probably make a FAQ message and pin it-

[charred gazelle]

Wow, what a fuss. 😅

Did ipodtouch0218 confirm to work on this?

[sand crypt]

i think he’s interested in playtesting it to see how it goes in mvlo since it seemed pretty well in the original mvl

[pine plaza]

I haven't commented on this and I won't much cause its just a game suggestion but I do wanna say I really dont like the camping nature of this map and how falling down with knockback basically guarantees you cant fight back for the stars also the middle has most the spawns so going up feels rather pointless once you have an item also I don't like how mega is some kind of "required asset" to get to points in the level its just weird and does not feel very thought out no disrespect to yall but theres a reason vertical levels are not really... a thing

[hushed heron]

I was asked to commentate.
Verticality is not a good idea I'm afraid

[worn topaz]

i urge you to read the post, and gameplay clips to see how ive managed to fix many of the problems that vertical levels face ^v^

[thin gyro]

horizontality has been done and redone though 😭

[hushed heron]

And for what reason let's put our thinking cap on for this

Because mvl is not built for horizontal levels

Vertical**

[thin gyro]

You haven't even played the level yet

[hushed heron]

Your point being

Do you think I haven't tried playing and making vertical levels

I'm not saying this to dunk on you op btw

[worn topaz]

camping has been addressed in the post, camping was found to be extremely hard due to the fact that you can come in from above using pipes,

also, falling down with knockback just wasnt something we experienced either, the rickshaw either catches you or the semisolids do, i urge you to watch the gameplay clips (below the main message post ^v^) to see how fights usually stay for quite a while and being hit can very well be followed up on :3

mega also isnt a required asset to get back up, the top of the rickshaw and pipes are ways to get to the top, honestly if mega was disabled from this map i would remove the spin blocks entirely due to it promoting using it as a "get out of jail free" card when youre fighting someone :3

but also i do feel a little offended by "wasnt thought out very well" as it just isnt true,,, this has had an extreme amount of tweaks, playtests, overhauls, and feedback, this specific iteration has undergone so many changes to make sure it flows as well as possible, even if you dont like the level, saying that i hadnt put much thought into it does make me feel a little hurt,,,

[pine plaza]

its sorta just a fundamentally flawed concept within the game design behind mvl and I say that respectfully as well

sorry if such a claim offended you but I just personally don't think these kinda vertical levels work whatsoever and no matter the amount of time poured in that is the basis for the level so it was not a claim with malice just one with vast amounts of doubt really

[worn topaz]

im not against your doubts, its indeed a slippery slope due to how often its tried and hasnt worked ^v^
however, this in my opinion is the best iteration of one yet, :3

[worn topaz]

(not all vertical levels are built equal ^v^')

[pine plaza]

well honestly at the end of the day its really not my choice at all and my thoughts don't matter so much at this current time as I haven't played it myself and I dunno if I even will cause thats ipods call... but if it for some reason is eventually added and also ready to be tested and I personally get to playtest it myself I really won't be holding it to any handicap because of these things which means it has alot stacked against it from a fundamental standpoint

pretty much I personally believe this kind of map just goes against the constraints of the game design so I just feel a playtest would just prove that even more to be a factual statement I say such claims with zero malice though its not bad to keep trying things n all that

[river needle]

What if you have a blast while testing though-

[worn topaz]

i urge you to at least go into any playtests with a neutral perspective and not a preconceived negative bias ^v^'
and also note that if something doesnt sit right to you, this doesnt need to be the final iteration and things can be changed :3

[void sleet]

when i was child i always was looking for the yellow pipe entrance lol

now see not exist

[hushed heron]

That's not a good argument nor the following one for leafy's

[hushed heron]

Seeing the reaction: saying "my level is good. Yours just weren't" is not an argument because they don't know.
Saying Leafy is biased is also not right because... Guess what... Leafy also formed his own opinion

[worn topaz]

i,,, never said that,,,

my words are being very stretched out here,,,

i never said mine was good and yours arent, i meant that you shouldn't judge my map solely based on others, if many many people made an "outside volano" theme and none of them worked, you shouldnt immediately turn down the idea of one just because others have done it in the past :'3

[worn topaz]

also, leafy mentioned how they will give this stage no handicapping when playtesting, a little worrying, so im just trying to say "please dont go into it with a negative outlook, please try to be neutral when playtesting and form an opinion while playing" :'3

[hushed heron]

It's not only judging your map. It's the whole concept of verticality. Mario's moveset is built for horizontal movement, even the powerup with vertical movement fits oddly in mvlo (propeller), it's flawed

Same thing goes for the... "minimap" if you wanna call that

[river needle]

#1392680501579350026 message

Built for horizontal movement

[worn topaz]

this is why the map essentially has horizontal "sections" if you will, the map is quite horizontal despite being a vertical map, i would say this is akin to volcanos layers :3

[worn topaz]

also yes, this :'3

[young flume]

kinda bad point here considering spinners are what is sending mario vertically

not his move set

[worn topaz]

i suppose thats true though, maybe thats not the best point-

[river needle]

well, it's not like a man can fly.. but still-
Mario maker 2 lets players make vertical levels, why wouldn't MvLO have at least one vertical one?

[worn topaz]

to be fair SMM2 doesnt have combat mechanics,,,

or loops,,,

its quite hard to judge based on that,,,

[river needle]

It does kinda in multiplayer

[young flume]

not like mvl’s tho

[worn topaz]

yeah :'3

[young flume]

very different games

[worn topaz]

i still stand by this, the map is very fun to run around horizontally :3

you can get from the bottom of the entire map to the bricks by the top of the rickshaw without stopping :3

[river needle]

Speaking about new games, I miss the random minigames Nintendo added to their new entries just to add content-

[hushed heron]

Yeah. Hence why there are propeller platforms

[worn topaz]

yes, its been established this wasnt the best example-

note though, that my map does favor horizontal movement :3

as well as vertical movement :3

listen, im not trying to say my map is perfect, its impossible to make a perfect map,,, im trying to vouch for the playtests ive done with many people who can attest to the map feeling very good to play on :3

across multiple iterations, i feel as if this map is a good fit for MvL, :3

[haughty salmon]

what is nsmbe?

[worn topaz]

the editor used to make NSMB levels :3

[haughty salmon]

(i dont know much about mods lol)

[zealous portal]

I’d say this map handles itself pretty well!
Reminds me of beach, which is a fairly well designed vertical map!
Both of these maps handle that far better than… grassland

[haughty salmon]

ohhhh

i honestly have mixed opinions on this map

hence why i say its just interesting

[young flume]

beach is well designed but it’s double layering is another get propeller and win map

from playing it that’s all you do

get propeller, stay on the top, win

[worn topaz]

i agree, beach works well as a vertical map!!!
im surprised that "random fireballs hitting you from nowhere" is discussed more here then about the beach map, which has no ways of stopping random fireballs from the top,,,
i guess despite the fact that you can throw random fireballs from the top of beach, not even ive noticed that happening on it! random fireballs coming from a sky just arent a problem in any map in general :3

[zealous portal]

Tbh propeller doesn’t feel like a problem there unless your playing higher counts

[steady bronze]

get propeller, stay on the top, win
stars dont spawn at the top lol

yall are like purposefully ignoring the map design

[worn topaz]

i think propellor is more of a design issue at this point then a map specific issue to you ill be honest :"3

[worn topaz]

ty ^v^

beach doesnt have this problem :'3

[young flume]

i’m not a fan of this even without propeller enabled

[zealous portal]

Well, ya can’t blame them 😔
A vertical map feels impossible!
But it sure is possible if done right

[young flume]

not of this level but a similar thing can be applied here

[worn topaz]

yunno considering i made sure stars only spawn near the bottom by the rickshaw,,,

[young flume]

get propeller, stay in the middle

[worn topaz]

im surprised you think itll be overpowered,,,

[worn topaz]

,,,get hit by someone above!~

[haughty salmon]

yeah the fact its vertical makes me think how this would work in bigger lobbies

[young flume]

i’m almost positive it will be
low and high player counts alike

[zealous portal]

I’ve been wondering about that…

[haughty salmon]

ikr???

like it looks alright in 2 and maybe even 3-4 but in like those giant lobbies…???

oh dear

[sand crypt]

well giant lobbies are a mess regardless so like lol

theres no saving those...

[haughty salmon]

im aware but in this map specifically?

hmmm..

[sand crypt]

btw by giant i mean 8+ players

[worn topaz]

people find even a map like bricks enjoyable in bigger lobbies!~
to be fair though, i think testing it eith 4-5 players is enough, testing any map that isnt absolutely huge with 10 players would never work out,,,

[sand crypt]

ya its def gonna get hectic

[haughty salmon]

then again theres bricks

but this seems like a really chaotic map to play on with 8+ people

its just gonna be raining projectiles lmao

[sand crypt]

tbh i agree i dont blame them for being really negative about the design cause yeah like turnip said, vertical maps are super hard to get right but i think this map nailed it and we've talked through it

[young flume]

the difference with this and bricks is that bricks is small and compact so chaos is loose
here i feel it’ll be super annoying

[haughty salmon]

would take me back to my gungeon days lmao

[tight stag]

Anyone with propeller on the map the moment an ice ball or hammer hits them:

[zealous portal]

This seems like one of those maps,
Too gimmicky for everyone to accept or like!

[tight stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-kirby-drop-falling-deep-gif-17081698

[thin gyro]

People just don't think vertical is a good idea

No matter the map design

That's the core issue some people are having

[haughty salmon]

i will say this map is impressive for trying to make a vertical map work

[thin gyro]

I personally don't think vertical is impossible but it's definitely harder than horizontal maps and this try is one of the better ones

[haughty salmon]

yeah agreed

[pine plaza]

I mean I did indeed make points to the maps desgin also but yes the vertical nature of the stage is the main issue I think

[worn topaz]

relating to 8+ players:
i think that the exact same thing will happen here as what's gonna happen on bricks,

the people who try to win will stay on the top, and just steal stars, everyone who likes the chaos will be on the lower levels and wont mind getting hit because random stuff everywhere literally just hits you all the time :3

but again theres no way to design a map with 8+ players in mind without making it borin for less players, its futile :'3

[compact totem]

what if we filp the level upside down

that will fix it

[thin gyro]

I think you should give it a try if it happens to be pushed to playtest phase. Won't kill you, and you'll be able to see what's wrong with the design and maybe even find ways to come and fix it notably for higher player counts (I don't think any map has nailed it the first time around)

[haughty salmon]

yeah if there were chaos on this map, theres nowhere to breathe

[tight stag]

I think if it had that pseudo Mario Maker darker background tileset stuff going on like jungle & other C stages it wouldn't look that bad

[steady bronze]

the map isnt designed fully yet

because it was made in nsmbe

[worn topaz]

also true! we need some way to playtest it, no? ^v^

how else can we even know??

[haughty salmon]

i understand the limitations of design on this map

[compact totem]

what does nsmbe stand for

[haughty salmon]

because of the tester

[steady bronze]

nsmb editor

[sand crypt]

new super mario bros editor

[compact totem]

ok thanks

[haughty salmon]

im just curious how would you guys decorate it?

[young flume]

i think a better use of verticality would be to make the map horizontal, but then have a small optional section to get goodies
using whatever 6-6(?) level from earlier as slight reference

[worn topaz]

without the limitations of NSMBe the possibilities are endless :3

[haughty salmon]

ya true

[sand crypt]

mindnomad suggested to replace the standard semisolids with some mountain styled semisolids in the way that smm2 handles it's semisolids

[worn topaz]

yeah i mean i feel like thats what my map is tying to go for ill be honest :'3

[sand crypt]

where like it just has a buncha bg tiles for decor

[worn topaz]

mhm!

[void sleet]

new super mario bros editor literally

[worn topaz]

that would work!

[pine plaza]

im not opposed to testing it if added but I just expressed my heavy doubts I don't rip things to shreds till I try it myself personally and I see lots of issues at first glance so I said them

[haughty salmon]

i kinda figured that too

[young flume]

your design is as if you stretched that optional vertical section across the entire map
i mainly mean having just one small bit of it

[worn topaz]

thats fair!! ^v^

[haughty salmon]

if only we could test with more than 2 ppl

because all i can think about is would this even work with more than 2-4 ppl

[worn topaz]

i feel like if you want a stage to be vertical it cant be horizontal too, with the stage looping there isnt much of a way to make that work in my eyes, but just like how many people dint think a vertical level could work, its entirely possible this could work too for something like a tower level!!~

[pine plaza]

maybe put it into a mod idk unity is there if someone wants to

[haughty salmon]

because theres not really a middle place to be

[young flume]

i’m imagining this would be good if it was like beach with the vertical stuff all in the middle where chaos happens and the other more horizontal stuff around it

[haughty salmon]

if that makes sense

[compact totem]

i think we should make this into a mod and test the map

[haughty salmon]

like a way to break away from the chaos

[worn topaz]

well, beach does have a lot more horizontal space to work with,,,

[young flume]

not a bad thing

[haughty salmon]

yeah thats true but not sure if they wanna do all of that

[young flume]

i would be more welcoming of a good/equal mix of hori and verti

not just one of them

[haughty salmon]

i couldn’t test it out personally cuz idk if unity works on chromebook

[steady bronze]

TIL; grasslands bad beacuse its only horizontal

[young flume]

i mean in a mountain sense brah

[steady bronze]

[pine plaza]

grassland has the advantage of being desgined with the gameplay in mind!!!

[worn topaz]

again, this map does benefit horizontal movement! you can get from the very bottom to the bricks near the top of the pinwheel without stopping,
some of my other iterations did have much more limiting horizontal movement, i agree, its not satesfying,,,
but i feel like this stage is a good blend of horizontal and vertical :3

[thin gyro]

But then wouldn't it just become less of a vertical map and more like a volcano 2...? 🤔

[young flume]

not if you do it right

[compact totem]

grasslands gimmick is being mediocre

[thin gyro]

simple: there's none

[young flume]

volcano needs a redesign anyway so

[thin gyro]

it's just 1-1 modified

[compact totem]

wdym its perfect

[young flume]

it’s mid

[void sleet]

wdym you it's perfect for do ragequit

[compact totem]

i hate ragebait because my friends make fun of me and the saysits rage bait

kinda sucks

[young flume]

volcano has the problem i’ve brought up of stay on one section and win

ie the bottom or top layer

usually the bottom

[worn topaz]

(hot take i like volcano,,, maybe not with hammers but with 10 players i actually tend to enjoy it :'3 a map like bonus is something i dont like as much though,,,)

[scarlet cloak]

😏

[void sleet]

that it's easy for fix it, only remove the second layer

[young flume]

yeah volcano would be nice if only horizontal with the addition of volcano elements like the loose rocks

[compact totem]

i see what you did there

hot take

[worn topaz]

"stay in one section"
"stay in both sections and you win"
:'3

[thin gyro]

also time for my rant against jungle but I personally dislike this map, you don't get any breathing space, any place where you can sit for a bit, and then get back to fighting it's just all fight fight fight or you die

[void sleet]

more based on 8-6 maybe???

that level is so horizontal

[young flume]

what

[sand crypt]

what? thats the volcano tower level 😭

unless you meant 8-5 which is indeed the horizontal inside volcano level

[worn topaz]

maybe i misinterpretend your message, but it seemed like you said "the strategy is to stay in one section, either the bottom or top" which implies youre using the whole map anyways :"3

[void sleet]

that isn't 8-7?

[sand crypt]

nope

[void sleet]

mb

[young flume]

and then i said usually the bottom

[compact totem]

nice desert level you got there

[void sleet]

bro has nsmbe open always

[young flume]

staying on the top of volcano is usually gonna put you into the frey
meaning stars go bye bye

better to go up for like 2 seconds

[scarlet cloak]

usually it's really hard to find the player with a lot of stars on volcano

[young flume]

that too

how would this be any different

[haughty salmon]

same!! i like volcano

[worn topaz]

if people arent targetting you i suppose that usually works,,,
when i play with more experienced people they usually notice where i tend to stay though :'3
i mean, personally i do struggle to deal with first place on volcano myself, but i feel like in 10 players it works, just nto with less :3

[bronze lava]

what a endless convo

[void sleet]

why not make the level lopped on vertical too??

there's not high section

[bronze lava]

i keep seing the same questions and answers here even if i went hours ago
just playtest the map and judge it by yourself bleh

[void sleet]

but will not exist any pit lol

[scarlet cloak]

I'll make sure to never play in your lobby 😠

[void sleet]

if i see you on my lobby i will ban you 😊

[worn topaz]

zomble,,,

if you read up youll see i said i liked it too :'3

[scarlet cloak]

I'm just joshing don't worry

[tired agate]

midcano enjoyers?

whaaaaaat

[worn topaz]

^v^'

[thin gyro]

I think the next step for any meaningful conversation is playtesting

[tired agate]

no more star react

[worn topaz]

mhm!~

[tired agate]

for liking volcano

[sand crypt]

well isnt volcano like 6 chunks wide? theres too much verticality for how wide the map is, this map is VERY thin but VERY vertical making it not as terrible, this is why whenever it was suggested to make this map more horizontal its been denied
and also why vin mentioned that if a map is too vertical then it cant be too horizontal either, and vice versa

[tired agate]

kiddin kiddin

[scarlet cloak]

ok I'll make sure to revoke the map button then hehe

[worn topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-gif-23674110

[young flume]

problem with playtesting is someone’s gotta make the spinning platform wheel

[void sleet]

also the level has so much plataforms

[worn topaz]

didnt ipod say theyd make this?

or did i not read what they said right,,,

[young flume]

yeah but idk when he’s gonna do that

[worn topaz]

thats fine!
we can wait ^v^

[haughty salmon]

boo womp

[bronze lava]

gg finally

[tired agate]

it'll be me who makes it

and I get money

[bronze lava]

vindollar won

congrats

[young flume]

says who

[tired agate]

Happy Birthday vindollar

[scarlet cloak]

me!

[bronze lava]

hope you have a nice day

[haughty salmon]

sniffs and cries

[void sleet]

happy bday vindollar

sniff and cries update

[haughty salmon]

yes

[tired agate]

the gaslight worked

gottem

[void sleet]

still will ban you from my lobby

[tired agate]

i won't ban you from my lobby

[young flume]

banning everyone

[tired agate]

nuh uh

[compact totem]

no-

[worn topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/mao-mao-adorabat-mao-mao-archive-gif-27116420

[tired agate]

banning you from the auth servers where I totally have access to

[void sleet]

i will ban everyone for win always

[scarlet cloak]

aw ☹️

[compact totem]

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrating-funny-thanos-gif-22399978

[young flume]

gonna world of light this server

[haughty salmon]

its ok cuz not like anyone plays volcano anyway

its just i secretly like it when its put on

[thin gyro]

everyone knows bricks is better

[worn topaz]

the master hands are all the staff :3

[thin gyro]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1137708369562587166.webp?size=48

[void sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/kris-berdly-bom-dia-lucas-and-friends-picmix-gif-5863638254185080275

[young flume]

-# 4 people

[compact totem]

nvm

ban all

[young flume]

-# 2 of which don’t do much

[worn topaz]

"we'll all need to take down at least 0.00001!" is my favourite world of light quite :3

[tired agate]

just do a thanos snap

[compact totem]

whose the 4th employee

[tired agate]

me

[compact totem]

theyre not on rn

[tired agate]

not

[young flume]

protaytoe

[compact totem]

if it was you i would cry

huh

[haughty salmon]

😈

[compact totem]

didnt know he existes

lol

[young flume]

case in point

[compact totem]

mindnomad does stuff though

he wins games

and

...

[young flume]

rarely

[compact totem]

yeah idk

i should be staff

i would lock in

[young flume]

hell nah

[tired agate]

[young flume]

everyone would be doomed

[compact totem]

lol

[tired agate]

mine

[void sleet]

we are talking abt mountain level 🗣️ 🔥

[compact totem]

what

i would cook

[young flume]

you would burn

[tired agate]

pls dont beg to be staff

dont be like those

(and me partially)

[compact totem]

i wont

im kidding

[tired agate]

but that was for a joke

[void sleet]

miibumm calm down, you are not like that 😟

[young flume]

https://tenor.com/view/able-uploaded-this-trwinky-low-gif-24458711

[compact totem]

i aint gonna be staff and i dont want to be staff

[tired agate]

for legal reasons that was a joke i dont want to be staff ||yet..? idk im inconclusive||

[compact totem]

too much responsibility

[tired agate]

I got staff for like 1 second or smth

i forgor

idk

[compact totem]

if i could work on the game i would make shitty maps

so its for the best im not staff

anyway

back to mountains

[void sleet]

if i could work on the game would delete it

[compact totem]

how rude

mountains

whats your favourite mountain

[young flume]

i don’t see a point in talking here until it’s actually made

[worn topaz]

right, i should post that FAQ message, one sec-

[young flume]

/playtested

[compact totem]

wait

is this gonna be in the game?

[young flume]

not as of right now

playtested

[void sleet]

this game will affect with the stop killing games law 😢 ?

[compact totem]

then will it be in the game maybe?

[young flume]

idfk

[compact totem]

i volunteer to playtest

[young flume]

we’ll decide after playtesting ig

[compact totem]

i have no life anyway

[sand crypt]

-# why did this thread become deltarune thread for a moment what-

[void sleet]

world of light

[worn topaz]

i feel like the probably the only people who really need to talk here are people who are new to the discussion and dont fancy reading 1600+ messages, thats fair :3

[zealous portal]

An impassable wall on the upper section indeed works
Players can’t just follow the one bellow and must turn around or go down !!
Not exactly what you said but similar enough!

[worn topaz]

FAQ

why are the stars in a cluster down there?

ah, right! this is by design!
after playtesting, it was clear that if more than 1 star spawned up top, there would be too much incentive to go up there, and players would just stay there instead :3
we decided that people go to the top anyways for its coins, powerups, donut blocks, and to be safe, so we didnt need more of a reason to go up there :3

see, players like being at a higher elevation then other players, too much incentive to stay up there means people only stay up there :3
our idea was "go up there to get a positonal advantage, if you want a star youll need to be vulnerable at the bottom" ^v^

also, the minimap is horizontal, so you can always rely on the minimap to know where the star is!

why not implement the turning-bullet-bill-turrets?

the bullet bills dont despawn horizontally on a map as thin as bricks, meaning they start piling up and it becomes a very hard thing to deal with,,, you end up fighting the stage more than you end up fighting eachother, and in MvLO with others spawning them, it could get messy-
its also hard to implement fast vertical mobility with them, they always get in the way in the most unpredictable ways possible when trying to go up fast in those playtests,
and lastly, ice levels in NSMB dont have bill blasters, spin tops, or blue koopas, so i feel like implementing those just cuz "its like mountains" shouldn't be a priority,,,

theres barely any decor, it doesnt look very much like mountains imo

i shouldve probably mentioned this in the posts message, but i couldnt add decor because of NSMB's limitations, decor can be added in unity though with no limits, but the important part for now about the level is how it plays out, you can see clips of it in action right here: #1392680501579350026 message

[compact totem]

how to become playtester tutorial

[worn topaz]

if any staff could pin this it would be much appretiated ^v^

[young flume]

you don’t

[compact totem]

wa

rio

[sand crypt]

in any case that the rickshaw starts to get coded these are it's assets

[thick crypt]

Since there was actual effort and play testing put into this, I think it's worth playtesting in mvlo

Then we can figure out if it needs adjustments and ultimately figure out if it's a good fit

[worn topaz]

tysm!!!~

[thick crypt]

Also just because there's clusters of star spawns in a particular place doesn't mean there's loads of stars there. They're spawning once at a time

[worn topaz]

ik, but it was a question many people asked so i felt like i should include it anyways yunno? :3

i think that exact message about the star "cluster" i included in the faq is pasted 3 times here actually- :'3

[steady bronze]

i feel like it'd also be ok to have the stars spawn along the bottom too just to spread it out

but we can test as-is first

[worn topaz]

i think adding stars at the bottom could work, just a little worried it might cause a volcano-esque "idk if the star is up or down" issue, but i think spacing them further away from other stars on the mini map, or just adding one like i did for the top could definitely work :3
but yeah first i would love testing it as-is and adding tweaks like this from there :3

[quick jackal]

i agree with the issues it has even though its main focus is destroying the whole level with a mega mushroom

not really anything to relate that gimmick to any region

the map could be a little longer too so theres more options but the current layout with the stars on one side and coins on the other is weird

but with stars on the bottom and coins on the top it feels like the top would be a place to get ready with different powerups and most of the fight may be at the bottom trying to get stars

[white dew]

I'm not too far into the subject, but I think if the star indicator could be modified to include the height where it's located, it would help a lot.

(By the way, hey Steamed, just stopping by to say hi.)

[steady bronze]

ooh interesting

[bronze lava]

how exactly

[void sleet]

volcano has been fixed oh my god

[bronze lava]

i dont think the vertical minimap could work

it wouldnt guide you exactly where is the star (it could be fine vertically, but not horizontally)

[zealous portal]

from the display it looks like an arrow would appear on maps telling you if a star is siginicantly bellow you

[white dew]

For example, imagine you have a level with a certain verticality.

You could divide that level into "floors" to identify where it is.

If the star is on a higher floor, the arrow appears up; if it's on a lower floor, it appears down; and if you're on the same floor, there's no arrow.

[worn topaz]

i dont think theyre talking about a vertical minimap, just the ability to see if a star has spawned higher or lower with an icon showing so :3

[white dew]

basically this

[bronze lava]

that sounds a bit weird but its not a bad idea tho...

[steady bronze]

omg you're right

volcano

[bronze lava]

unrelated but vinolar i like your pfp

[midnight shard]

Icl I just joined and saw this

Ts looks peak

[steady bronze]

ok you know what, im adding the star height thing now

[zealous portal]

this would only really be used for sky, volcano, & beach right?
-# not pipes it wouldn't change anything
i see it not being useful in other maps!

[worn topaz]

most stars spawn in generally the same elevation so the idea would need to be tweaked a bit if it wanted to work on my map, this 100% works 100000x better on volcano though you mightve singlehandedly saved it :'3

[zealous portal]

i think it's good, But lets prob have the arrows above, and bellow the stars!
then peakles

[steady bronze]

also true

if you have multiple stars next to each other then the arrows would overlap

[white dew]

That's why I say, maps with a certain verticality, horizontal ones really doesnt get affected

[white dew]

WAIT, FR?

[zealous portal]

ye!

[worn topaz]

you made a discord account today to join the server and solve a problem nobody else has been able to solve for years, round of applause!!! ^v^

[white dew]

Maybe you could add the arrows only with the main star, and not with the dropped ones.

[white dew]

What a way to join lmaooo 😅

[white dew]

https://tenor.com/view/paparazzi-papa-coolmathgames-cooking-papapizzaeria-gif-27607386

[worn topaz]

the second star there especially was always a gamble to tell if it spawned at the top or bottom, awesome!!!

[sand crypt]

wait this could actually be really great for vertical maps

king dedede saved us all

[steady bronze]

on horizontal only maps, can show if its above/below the screen

[white dew]

Dude, PIPES

[sand crypt]

i think it should generally be like that tbh

[steady bronze]

also im changing it to this arrow instead

i think it works better

[white dew]

Looks nice! (mine was a quick edit for the idea nothing else)

[sand crypt]

also what about the small stars that were dropped by players?

[void sleet]

thanks ipod for much sorry for so nothinf

[white dew]

I don't know if I'm the only one who sometimes sees a bunch of stars coming out of nowhere, and they happen to be in that hidden upper hallway.

[steady bronze]

they shouldnt be allowed to stay up there im pretty sure

[void sleet]

thi could be implement to other player???

[steady bronze]

not really

cuz player icons are already arrows and flip depending on if its you or not

[void sleet]

uh right

Mb

how works the arrows, is bases on floprs or any radius or something

or bases if the camera can move vertical

[steady bronze]

if (upArrow && downArrow) {
    float stageHeight = (stage.CameraMaxPosition.Y - stage.CameraMinPosition.Y).AsFloat;
    if (stageHeight > 18) {
        // Thirds
        upArrow.enabled = targetTransform.position.y > (stage.CameraMaxPosition.Y.AsFloat) - (stageHeight / 3f);
        downArrow.enabled = targetTransform.position.y < (stage.CameraMinPosition.Y.AsFloat) + (stageHeight / 3f);
    } else if (stageHeight > 12) {
        // Halves
        upArrow.enabled = targetTransform.position.y > ((stage.CameraMaxPosition.Y + stage.CameraMinPosition.Y).AsFloat / 2f);
        downArrow.enabled = !upArrow.enabled;
    } else {
        // Screen bounds
        upArrow.enabled = targetTransform.position.y > stage.CameraMaxPosition.Y.AsFloat;
        downArrow.enabled = targetTransform.position.y < stage.CameraMinPosition.Y.AsFloat;
    }
}

based on the available range of camera movement

if its a large vertical stage, itll split into thirds (up/none/down)

medium vertical stage, halves (up/down)

[worn topaz]

im surprised you coded all of this that fast holy :'3

[steady bronze]

small stage, above/below screen bowns (above/inside/below)

[void sleet]

ooooh

[steady bronze]

volcano example w/ the new icons

[void sleet]

thanks ipod for so much sorry for so nothing

[steady bronze]

?

[white dew]

https://tenor.com/view/we're-so-back-we-are-so-back-we-are-back-elden-ring-we-are-back-elden-ring-victory-gif-18104847912830278299

[steady bronze]

just two images that enable/disable based on the objects height. not that hard :P

[void sleet]

bad translate spanish sarcastic thing lol

[steady bronze]

ah

[white dew]

"Gracias por tanto, perdon por tan poco" i got cha man

[void sleet]

eso eso eso

🙏🏿

[scarlet cloak]

this is SO MUCH better

[void sleet]

finally volcano its a good level

also sky is more easy to find the stars

[white dew]

The only way I can describe Sky layout is... square

Not too vertical, not too horizontal lol

[rugged otter]

Was made a month ago, but joined today! Incredible suggestion indeed

[thin gyro]

This is so much better, but feels weird when going below and the star icon still says it's below you

[river needle]

I like how the star indicator of a dropped star is smaller

[compact totem]

nice addition

[haughty salmon]

da beast is the goat for this 🙏

[fair sundial]

i saw the videos and it's cool but you have to put more mountain tile

[worn topaz]

its essentially impossible to do that without making mega bad :"3
when i think of mega being bad on a map, i think of ice and sky,
both of which use their native tiles in places that arent the ground :'3

[bronze lava]

whats your point with this

[worn topaz]

when this is ported to MvLO, its planned to have more BG tiles that fit with the theme :3

[scarlet cloak]

ew... I don't really like bg tiles

the map looks good enough with its background and general look

[bronze lava]

the map would look pretty cool in mvlo without those stupid limitations

[worn topaz]

,,,the map wont be oversaturated with them hopefully ^v^'

[scarlet cloak]

still...

[fair sundial]

atleast there is a ost?

[bronze lava]

bro

oh my god lmao

[worn topaz]

could you clarify what you mean by this,,,?

[fair sundial]

ost i meant song

theme

[bronze lava]

official music for the map

[worn topaz]

oh, right now there isnt no :3
none of the custom maps had songs for them at first tho! they were made by seperate people usually! ^v^

if this is confirmed im assuming a song would be made for it :3

i wonder what song remix would be good for this map,,,

first thing that comes to mind would be mount pajamaja :3

[bronze lava]

mountain world map theme!

with uh

nsmbwii mountaim theme i guessss

[worn topaz]

how does that one go again?

[finite osprey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv4Ur2iDI0

[fair sundial]

https://youtu.be/OHVQTmvU6oI

[bronze lava]

thats... newer

[fair sundial]

what about it

[scarlet cloak]

???

[bronze lava]

its not the original game

womp womp

[finite osprey]

music track for the mountain stage

[outer valley]

i think i do have the mountain theme

[fair sundial]

your logo too womp womp

[outer valley]

DS theme

[scarlet cloak]

I know

but what does it have to do with anything about the map's design itself?...

[worn topaz]

a more enegertic version would be so cool!!!
plus, it would have like, the nsmb 8-bit square wave channel!!!

eheh!!!

[bronze lava]

what does the logo have to do with this bro 😭

[fair sundial]

then stop saying that

[bronze lava]

oh yeah bruh this is vivolar thread!!!! im sowwyy bestie

[worn topaz]

-# the old logo wasnt in nsmb either :'3

[worn topaz]

is oki!!! -^v^-

[sand crypt]

just saying now that the map that spiky showed that is ''better'' was this one, he didnt make it...

[steady bronze]

isnt mountain the one theme WITH legit background tiles? lmao

[fair sundial]

Volcano too

[scarlet cloak]

usually they were used under like- ugh lemme get some pictures be right back

[worn topaz]

some maps technically have BG tiles but its for already existing objects like bouncy shrooms,
i think mountains is the only map with BG tiles that are just part of the stage tho yeah :'3

[bronze lava]

have you even played the original game

[fair sundial]

this ones on volcano

[worn topaz]

those are solid in the games files if im not mistaken :3

[fair sundial]

you sure?

[worn topaz]

i could check rn!

[steady bronze]

it's either a semisolid or solid

[bronze lava]

thsts... not inside volcano

[sand crypt]

i wouldnt say those entirely count as bg tiles tho
they're just decoration for that one volcano tower level to simulate a hole that the player comes out from after they fire from the cannon

[steady bronze]

^

[sand crypt]

and yeah the theming isnt inside volcano anyways lol

[scarlet cloak]

usually they were used in cave like spots like this, in this map (vins map) there's not really any spots like that made out of terrain

[sand crypt]

yup exactly like i said #1392680501579350026 message

[scarlet cloak]

literally only used for convenience, and it's never used again

[fair sundial]

a also sky castle too

[sand crypt]

we're talking about inside volcano tho
and mountain

[scarlet cloak]

what does that have to do with anything?...

[bronze lava]

????????????????????

the dead internet theory is real bro

[fair sundial]

i meant about this

[bronze lava]

no?????? its not even related

thats just a specific section of mountain

[fair sundial]

bro doesn't get it

[bronze lava]

we are talking about mountain, not sky castle

[scarlet cloak]

also yes but it wouldn't really... look right, in this map

[sand crypt]

he was replying to ipod saying that mountain isnt the only theme with bg tiles

[gilded gyro]

Top 100,3 reasons this shouldn't be added:

• I have no fucking idea im just pushing shit further

ok now bye

[worn topaz]

: ' 3

[scarlet cloak]

it's the only theme with a decent amount of background tiles to be notable

[bronze lava]

ah cool
i thought he was talking bs as usual

[sand crypt]

exactly!
the outside volcano and castle rooftop ones are used on like 2 small parts only and its for convenience

[scarlet cloak]

-# and immersion too

[worn topaz]

solid :3

[scarlet cloak]

busted!

[bronze lava]

vivovar you burned him alive bro

[scarlet cloak]

volcano reference

[worn topaz]

either way, BG tiles in my map could be added in mvlo, but its impossible to do that with nsmbe basically :3
so, visuals shouldnt be why my map doesnt get added ^v^
ive playtested this with many people who can all vouch for it being fun!, so im confident that the concept of the level design works!

[bronze lava]

hai :3

[scarlet cloak]

-# I'm background tiles's biggest hater

[worn topaz]

was it fun? :3

[bronze lava]

ye!

[worn topaz]

-^v^-

[gilded gyro]

bro standing next to eruptions and casually listening to fast athletic theme
true badass

[steady bronze]

-# the background pipes in jungle:

[gilded gyro]

Bro despises Beach

[worn topaz]

just look at luigi!
hes standing completly still!
"luigi not affraid" as he says in mario tennis :3

[young flume]

background tiles are good until you overdo it

[scarlet cloak]

tbh jungle kinda looks ugly in that part without it so it's understandable...

[steady bronze]

I dont think any of the current maps overdo it

[worn topaz]

mhm!
hopefully the right balance can be struck with mountains,,,

[young flume]

yeah but some mods do

[steady bronze]

the devious background tiles with grass so they appear solid:

[gilded gyro]

R G B 255 background tiles:

[worn topaz]

-# im glad im not the only one whos experienced that while playing some mods :"3

[bronze lava]

alien myself

[gilded gyro]

alien myself also rosa

we are mates

[bronze lava]

yes

[zealous portal]

man i love mount pajamaja 🔥

[steady bronze]

Gonna try adding this to a playtest build soon. Remind me if its been a while and it seems like i forgot...

[worn topaz]

kk! im excited!!! -^v^-

[steady bronze]

Obviously it'll be bare bones

[worn topaz]

ah, if the time ever comes id like to help playtest it too! ^v^

[worn topaz]

ofc! its the concept that matters at first :3

[steady bronze]

Probably no mountain tile set / decorations

Just the gameplay

[worn topaz]

sounds good!

[red condor]

would the minimap be reconfigured to show the player's vertical position instead, or will it stay the same?

[worn topaz]

the minimap already works well horizontally so i dont think itd need to be vertical, but it could always be tested!!
the problem with the minimap being vertical is that the stars were designed to be recognizable assuming the minimap is horizontal due to the fact that they spawn near the same vertical plane :3

[red condor]

Ohh that's a good point

[sand crypt]

@steady bronze btw for when you get to testing the map these r the assets of the rickshaw lift if you dont have them yet

[gilded gyro]

Mapa montanha

[red condor]

couldn't open the zip, is that a model or is it a spritesheet?

[sand crypt]

the lifts are sprites and the ''rickshaw'' or the cross thingy is a model

[red condor]

Ah a combination. Ok cool

[honest spoke]

This is actually a really cool level. Could I use it for #1232136909753683990? I already got the donuts (I've been looking for an excuse to use them), and I have moving platforms (track platforms and bouncing mushrooms), so the Rickshaw should be easy to add. I also feel like it would be fun to scale with pretty much all the cast. (except Yoshi, but he's just not fun, lol)

as a bonus, that vine block would make me actually implement that, which is the only missing part to adding another stage I've been working on.

[worn topaz]

ofc you could!!! -^v^-

although, if it gets added to the game you wouldnt need to ofc ^v^'

tysm tho!!! thats flattering to hear -^v^-

[gilded gyro]

Evil HyperCat:
Ask ❌
Wait until it becomes a vanilla map and take it no questions asked ✅

[honest spoke]

[worn topaz]

im so happy that many people like my map,,, im really happy that we're potentially getting a custom stage with a dynamic element that affects player movement! (other than slope hyperspeed ^v^')

[gilded gyro]

oh yeah ipod should make the rickshaws give you hyperspeed somehow

[worn topaz]

on dear :'3

on this map? ^v^'

[gilded gyro]

yes

Hyperspeed in Green Bricks would be so fire

[worn topaz]

launches you into the stratosphere

[zealous portal]

currently how moving platforms are coded,
it would give hyperspeed?

[gilded gyro]

we hate ipod coding

(we love ipod coding)

[zealous portal]

it's both

[gilded gyro]

stfu

no more grabo sucks at being host

die

You shall become my breakfast!

[scarlet cloak]

a vegetable for breakfast sounds really sad

[gilded gyro]

Exactly

We're both suffering equally
that's the punishment

[honest spoke]

Btw. Since this stage isn't from a mod, what should I put as the "Origin"?
Normally it's the full mod name, like "NSMBVS: Wonder", or "HyperCat's Map Mod"

[gilded gyro]

i should play HCM again

[worn topaz]

"vindollars brain" :3

[gilded gyro]

i didn't know someone's brain worked with spinning rickshaws

[honest spoke]

That's kinda funny, yeah I'ma do that.

[worn topaz]

^v^

[honest spoke]

Jumpscare. I should change this stage's Origin

[gilded gyro]

You should delete that map 💔

[honest spoke]

sadg

[gilded gyro]

I mean, not delete but redesign it please

Windows from 2024 was smoking smoke HARD at that time

[honest spoke]

Fair. But, back on topic, this isn't a post about Autumn Volcano after all.

[steady bronze]

i think they would if you jump off them without holding a direction

[worn topaz]

#1400455616622886995 message
#1400455616622886995 message
,,,was this meant for my map in that case?

[steady bronze]

yeah. you shouldnt change anything until theres a proper playtest though

[worn topaz]

kk!
do you think this is because of widescreen? in nsmb it didnt feel like a problem so thats what id assume to be the case :3

also! i figured out that to make the map even you wouldn't need to change the layout of any tiles, if the rickshaw is moved half a unit it should make everything even ^v^

well, 'cept that one star ^v^'

but that can be moved half a unit too right?

[fast sundial]

half units in mvlo 🗣️

[worn topaz]

"a unit is a unit, you cant say its only half!"

[glacial mirage]

this thread been real quiet

[worn topaz]

hai!!!

right, it has been a while,,,

[glacial mirage]

Hi vin

[worn topaz]

although im sure ipod is busy with coding something else i suppose,,,

[worn topaz]

hai bandana!!!! -^v^-

[glacial mirage]

Ngl he does not need to continue the project anytime soon if he doesnt feel like it

We got our content

[worn topaz]

#1392680501579350026 message
he did say to remind him ^v^'

[glacial mirage]

cough cough

[glacial mirage]

well guess i just did
he probably isnt interested or motivated to do too much right now but ah well

[scarlet cloak]

banana bread this might be the most sad and dreadful message I've seen from you in GENERATIONS

[glacial mirage]

why 🥀

[gilded gyro]

True, but i hope ipod does

Can't wait for 2.1...

[glacial mirage]

Lets not get enki on that trend again 😭

[finite osprey]

so i looked in the game files and apparently THIS is the map preview design for the mountain map
likely a placeholder but its funny

[glacial mirage]

Its a placeholder yeah
I think i remember the video for it too

Looks like something Toby Fox would draw

[gilded gyro]

Snowy Mountain

Steamed Santa

[zenith trail]

E

[gilded gyro]

This is the 1900th message

[next zenith]

Mfw I'm wrong

[river needle]

100 more

[worn topaz]

thatd be cool!

[bronze lava]

hi

v

i

n

[worn topaz]

hi

r

o

s

e

:

3

[zenith trail]

E

[glad garnet]

a

[autumn cape]

a

[autumn cape]

just realized we have this map in 2.1

-# as an addon

[scarlet cloak]

I hope it's just a placeholder this map DESERVES to be in the main game

[steady bronze]

its for testing the addon system.

plus i feel as though its a good idea to use addons for playtesting levels

[scarlet cloak]

yay

[autumn cape]

fr

[scarlet cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/video-game-game-super-mario-galaxy2-bowser-jr-gif-17515228

[autumn cape]

yay x2

[solid inlet]

yay

i love this map

[young flume]

beach and bricks are nowhere near the verticality that this map is so why mention those
beach already has a propeller and hammer problem too so that proves my concern even more

@bronze lava

imo if you’re gonna implement mega as a big part of your map then it’s good to at least 1. not sacrifice the whole design for it and 2. make it feel smooth to move around in

[bronze lava]

the thing is that this map doesnt have star spawns on the top or bottom, you can easily counter hammer with fire flower or even propeller without dying with just going throught the pipes unlike beach where you re forced to do a whole process for get on the top
also knowing how small is the map, its clear that you re always going to catch your opponent

[young flume]

as to what frosty said about suggesting replacements , i think the trampoline mushrooms would work way better than the spinning platforms and semi solid patches

there’s a map in mmim that heavily centralizes them and it works wonders there so just sayin from experience

it keeps everyone on the same high vertically level when fighting and such + makes it easier to get higher
not to mention spinner + trampoline shrooms have a good interaction so that’d compliment the spinners here if you made them not only mega accessible

[worn topaz]

whats happening in here :'3

[bronze lava]

dude imma be honest
you should stop bringing your stuff because absolutely NOBODY knows anything about them since you re keeping them as a secret
i cant really believe that because i never played or even seen them and the way how you re saying this is like a different way to say "trust me bro"

[bronze lava]

hewwo :3

[young flume]

@obsidian spruce @humble magnet hi my playtester can you atone to the testament of the trampoline mushroom map

like why would i suggest it if i didn’t believe it would be beneficial to this design

[worn topaz]

could i have a brief rundown of whats happpening its impossible to follow along,,,

[bronze lava]

those are your friends right

[young flume]

the other playtesters haven’t been able to test it as of now

idk what to tell you

i’ll roll out another playtest today if that’ll satisfy you

[bronze lava]

this is pointless
idk why you decided to bring your friends because im talking about ME and OTHERS, not your testers
-# testers that are your friends

[young flume]

not all of the playtesters are my close friends my guy

meaning no friend bias

[bronze lava]

it still doesnt prove anything

[young flume]

it proves they can agree with them being good

regardless of them and mmim as a whole i still suggest implementing them to see

[bronze lava]

.

again, this is pointless

[young flume]

literally read what i just said bro

[sand crypt]

actually speaking of testing, maybe vin could test the map with you or sum to get a more accurate opinion of what you think of the map

[worn topaz]

miibumm how close to toronto are you for parsec lag? :3

[glacial mirage]

fact of the matter is that ipod already began working on the newer mountain map ages ago, right?
i dont think hes gonna reverse it for the 15 people who dont like it in the server

[young flume]

i’d prefer to test it in 2.0 if that were to happen

[sand crypt]

even if it’s in the og game it’s still the same flow pretty much

[young flume]

as far as us playtesters are aware he hasn’t done any progress on making the map