PA6-cf warping issue

[weary viper]

Printing on Bambu x1c

290c
50c bed
45mm/s
Glue stick on bed

Printed this same part 8 times with exactly the same warp

Filament was dried for 10 hours at 100c and is fed through a filament heater which sits at 55c

Any help would be greatly appreciated

EDIT: I have tried various bed temps as well. 40,45,60,90,100

fan- OFF

<@&1122587817768398938>

[quiet terrace]

you need WAYYYY more bed temp

100C or do on the bed

and let that chamber BAKE

[viral bay]

No this is not what you want to do

Polymaker nylons have "warp free technology" that requires a much lower bed temp than any other nylon I've found

[half comet]

Is that Polymaker filament right?

[viral bay]

The best suggestion I have is to go over to #1122531232689967264 and grab a profile made by me or Sideline.

[weary viper]

thought that might be obvious

[half comet]

Grant, you need to try the Polymaker PA6-CF 👀

[quiet terrace]

I do, I need to get through the other stuff I have in stock. Been running 3DX Tech for years!

[viral bay]

3dx tech is good, but it's a completely different animal.

[quiet terrace]

but it is nylon, it wants more bed temp

[viral bay]

No it doesnt

[half comet]

Just to be sure that we are dealing with the "warp free technology" warping this time 😅

[weary viper]

hence why im so frustrated lol

[quiet terrace]

why not?

[viral bay]

Warp free technology. Max bed temp is 50c or you will actually cause more warping

[quiet terrace]

oh, its not pure

nevermind then, I cant even use it if I wanted

[viral bay]

I don't remember what temps I'm using off the top of my head, but it's all in #1122531232689967264

[quiet terrace]

we need material certs for exotics

and nylon, especially real PA6 needs a ton of heat

[viral bay]

It does. I wish there was a little more transparency with what they are adding to it, but I understand why they don't want to release the info

[quiet terrace]

so whatever "technology" is in this, it means traditional steps for nylon are useless

I will have to request some documentation on it, now I am curious..

[weary viper]

i just edited the OP , i have tried that

[viral bay]

Some. Hot end temps are the same, and in most other aspects it's very very similar to 3dxtech. It's just the bed temp that needs to be lower

[half comet]

Fan settings? I assume fans off bust just to be sure

[viral bay]

Seriously, we spent a LOT of time tuning these filaments. Grab our profiles from the library

[weary viper]

correct

[weary viper]

ill give it a try

[viral bay]

I run it with a 40c bed.

[weary viper]

how do i import the settings into my program

[viral bay]

File - import - import configs

Then it should show in the drop down

[weary viper]

doesnt show when i go to import configs

when i open the file it opens the slicer but the settings seem differnt it says 50c for bed

[half juniper]

Like I was saying before, 40C bed with no chamber for Polymaker's PA-CF

[quiet terrace]

thats blasphemy as far as nylon goes lol. its magic in the filament

[half juniper]

I was surprised to heard standard nylons need an enclosure actually

Early last year. Just light gluestick as an interface layer

[weary viper]

so should i print with my door open?

[viral bay]

If you have a profile with the same name it might not import correctly. Lower the bed temp to 40. I usually print with the door open

[half juniper]

Door open, 30-40c bed temp, gluestick. As hot as possible (300C works great with a TC nozzle)

[weary viper]

sending a print off now well see how it goes

[weary viper]

does that screenshot appear to be the right settings?

[viral bay]

No

Bed at 40.

[weary viper]

i changed that

but thats how it imported from the library

[viral bay]

That's not an imported profile that's the generic profile.

But dropping the temp there should do well for you

[weary viper]

i imported the file from the library as a 3mf

its not the same as generic presets

[weary viper]

is there a config file somewhere im missing? ive downloaded the pa6 and the pa612 from library and when i import both 3mf files the filament profiles are different so im assuming that means it imported the filament config

[viral bay]

@cloud radish I'm not near my computer can you help him out?

[cloud radish]

I’m not home either but first thing I would try is to close the sliced and reopen. Then see if you have the profiles show up under your filament options.

I’ll be back home in a couple of hours she can walk you through in in a voice chat if you still don’t have it by then.

[weary viper]

does it have a different name for the profile i should look for?

[viral bay]

Yes it's called polymaker PA6-CF I think

[weary viper]

yeah i closed and reopened bambu studio and nothing is there here is what i did

downloaded from library
file>import>configs (does not show the 3mf file)
file>import>3mf> opened file from library

not sure what im doing wrong but ill keep tryijng

[viral bay]

You aren't importing a 3mf. It should be a json

[weary viper]

the files in the library are a 3mf

[viral bay]

I'll have to talk to Nic about that

[cloud radish]

I’ll look into it when I get home. I can edit if needed.

[weary viper]

dont see a way to download as anything other file, same with the pa612 file

[weary viper]

so i just downloaded the PLA pro profile you posted and that was a json file so worked perfectly

[cloud radish]

There you go! That should do you well with our nylon. I know computermedic did a great job tuning those profiles

[weary viper]

i dont think a PLA pro profile will do well with nylon haha

[cloud radish]

Oops. Misread that and thought you had it working.

[weary viper]

no unfortunately the PA6 and the PA612 profiles are both wrong file type

[cloud radish]

I can look it when I get home.

[weary viper]

cool thank you

[weary viper]

Same result

[weary viper]

So far so good on next attempt we’ll see if she lifts again or not

[weary viper]

About to give up on this filament I guess I’ll wait til @cloud radish checks on those files and give it one last shot

[slow patrol]

not entirely true. ABS needs a lot of heat because it's an amorphous polymer with a high glass transition temp. The reason nylon warps has nothing to do with heat really - it's glass transition temp is roughly the same as PLA. Nylon crystallizes and that crystallization creates alot of stress / warping force. Your higher bed temp helps to release the stress, that's why the heat is useful.

The thing is that Polymakers nylon doesn't crystallize as rapidly during printing so you don't have the same warping force. The issue with high bed temp using Polymaker nylon is that higher bed temp is more energy and that heat increases crystallization beyond what Polymaker intended, as a result it starts to warp where it otherwise wouldn't have. High bed temps with Polymaker nylon undo the whole benefit behind Polymakers nylon.

It's really just a difference of process. With a standard nylon, it crystallizes alot during printing but as a result it warps. Higher temp helps reduce warping force, but also increases the crystallization - so abit of a cat and mouse game.

Polymaker nylon doesn't crystallize as much. You then anneal your part after printing (to complete crystallization) and you get better mechanical properties and dimensional stability because now you have crystallization occuring across layers (something that didn't necessarily happen with the standard nylon) and the part is a finished geometry with top layers so even though the crystallization during annealing will result in stresses, the part will better resist that deformation.

Crystallization is also the reason why people struggle to print PP, one day I hope Polymaker can formulate a PP that controls the crystallization during printing.

[weary viper]

I’m thinking this is probably the best I’ll get

[slow patrol]

And in PLA if you printed this it's dead flat? Just checking incase maybe the beds not flat or if the magnetic plate is warping during printing.

What is your first layer height?

[weary viper]

I haven’t tried pla I guess I should , it’s a new bed and first layer is .2

[weary viper]

Should I try .25 ?

[viral bay]

I've used 0.2 with a 0.4 nozzle, and 0.3 with a 0.6 nozzle. I usually make the first layer a little thicker.

[weary viper]

.02 for all layers ?

That’s what I’m doing currently

[viral bay]

I usually make the first layer a little thicker

[weary viper]

I’ll try that

Printing with your pla pro profile currently and it’s going great, door cracked open with my top vents open on my ams riser

[hardy star]

Give the bed a good clean with soap and water, limit flow to no more than 6mm3/s, I'm not familiar with bambu plate types so cant comment there but I typically use textured glass with my nylon, and use some glue (I've seen others have good results with regular white elmers glue mixed with a little water and brushed on)

also another trick is to angle your parts so they have minimal contact with the bed, although this requires well-tuned supports and depends on the part

[hardy star]

And as long as the chamber doesn't exceed 50C you can leave it closed, door cracked with top vents open is just going to create a draft from the door out the top.

[weary viper]

I went to micro center last night and picked up a wham bam PEX plate which I used for the last print and the adhesion was good it was difficult to get off the plate

[hardy star]

Just curious, what was the previous plate

[weary viper]

Bambu engineering plate

[hardy star]

It probably just needs a good cleaning, especially if you've print a bunch of pla with it, as pla tends to leave a bit of a residue overtime, but I've heard the whambam is supposed to work pretty well for nylon too

[weary viper]

I sanded down the engineering plate and used dawn dish soap and cleaned it very well before printing , as for the new wham bam plate it’s brand new and prepped per their instructions so that was the first print on it

[slow patrol]

0.25, 0.28 and 0.3mm are common first layer choices.

The logic is, if the bed flatness is out by +/- 0.1mm it means there will be a tolerance of 0.2mm. If the first layer were thin enough you'd have various points where the layer isn't touching the bed. The thicker first layer helps to act as a buffer and compensate for the variances.

[weary viper]

ill try one of those out do you reccomend one of the 3 more than the others?

[slow patrol]

Ehhh depends hahaha

I've used different ones on different machines

my starting point is 0.28mm

[weary viper]

ill give that a shot

[slow patrol]

i'd also put your model in the centre of the buildplate

if it's not flat, you will find greater issues closer to the edges of the buildplate