Fiber Reinforced PC filaments

[summer socket]

I've always wanted an option to have filaments like PC CF and PC GF, but the filaments I found were either hard to source, extremely expensive, or really low quality. I'd love if polymaker merged their PC line of products with Fiber fill (so like Polymax PC CF or Polymaker PC PBT GF or Polymaker PC ABS CF FR). PC has much lower creep it seems compared to other common polymers so combining the heat resistance, impact resistance and low creep of PC with the stiffness and ease of printing with fiber reinforcement can make a stiff material thats easier to print and more useful than PACF when not around certain oils and greases (unless you use PCPBT as the base (please make a PC PBT GF and/or PC PBT CF) which might be better for chemical resistance)

[halcyon dock]

Seconded, PC CF/GF and PC-PBT CF/GF would be amazing. PC-ABS CF/GF seems kinda counterintuitive, isn't the point of the ABS to make the PC less rigid?

I know Prusament already sells PCCF, but they only offer 1.75mm filament.

[summer socket]

the only thing is PC-ABS seems to have the best HDT curve of all the PC filaments. Only thing is I found it to be quite a bit softer than even abs and have worse layer adhesion than asa. Prints look amazing tho minus tons of warping. Fiber fill might just exacerbate the layer adhesion issue though.

[summer socket]

prusament pc-blend cf is also kinda soft based on tds. around as stiff as pla or less stiff, which isn't very stiff considering its a cf pc blend

[halcyon dock]

Isn't PLA incredibly stiff?

I thought that was it's downfall, it's brittle

[summer socket]

compared to carbon fiber composites its not

here a comparison between pa6gf, pa6cf, and polylite pla

in youngs modulus

and heres prusa's mechanical properties on their PC-Blend CF TDS

[summer socket]

note pa6-gf and pa6cf are shown with their dry state properties

[lapis eagle]

Agreed ASA-GF (if interlayer adhesion can be improved) would be a great choice for automotive applications and PC-CF based on a high tg PC grade.

[young bear]

Would love to see more pc choices. Seams to be the answer im looking for in printer parts and car parts! Will be keeping an eye on what new stuff comes out

[summer socket]

or PC PBT-CF or GF because its semicrystalline and has a high Tg.

fiber adhesion technology

[lapis eagle]

LoL no to PC-PBT

Demand is too low for the raw material

It may have good properties but it won't sell well compared to the ASA or PC cfs /gfs

Maybe as an option but it won't fulfill the demand of an ABS / ASA.
In the case of PC, the high tg PC is better than PC-PBT in heat resistance and there's no fuss in crystallinity.

[young bear]

I agree the demand is low i think because people are scared off with the requirements. For the pc-pbt what chambers temps are you able to print in i have had success with temps as low as 80c chamber

Also i think the community in general is scared off with active heating. Which their is a safety concern but it can be done safely

[young bear]

Also where are you getting your data

The material comparison shows pc-pbt as the highest TG

[lapis eagle]

HDT matters more when we discuss heat resistance. PC-PBT is worse than Polymaker PC-FR

Polymaker PC is also a lower tg than the grades use for injection molding which makes it easier to print

I'm suggesting a high tg PC from Covestro. It will result in a much higher glass transition temperature and heat deflection temperature.

The first one in green are covestros glass fiber PC grades. You'll notice high tg and high HDT. Below are the general purpose PC grades, also have a high tg and high hdt.

Polymaker PC is great because it's a lower tg so it's so much easier to use. If they didn't do so, you'd need a heated chamber and 320C nozzle to print PC 😅 I think there's value though in a PC with GF or CF reinforcement based on a high tg PC. This material I think is better than PC-PBT, similar in tg but better in HDT.

Here's the source. https://solutions.covestro.com/en/brands/makrolon

PC-PBT is advertised as based on Covestro Makroblend. There is a Makroblend PC-PBT with glass fiber called UT 4045 G. HDT is 110C @ 1.8 MPa. Lower than the PC GF which is between 137 - 140C for same HDT test.

[summer socket]

possibly, i've noticed pure nylon even tho it can be annealed always has pretty mediocre heat resistance. add some cf and now its really good

[summer socket]

oh huh

maybe pc gf

[lapis eagle]

Yeah pure nylon has high heat resistance in terms of hardness, with load not so great. I suspect it's because the nylon isn't incredibly rigid, a more rigid filament such as GF / CF Nylon will have advantages in a HDT test. See PolyTerra PLA vs PolyLite PLA. Similar tg but PolyTerra PLA has a lower HDT result as it is more susceptible to flexing under load, even at room temp.

[summer socket]

ah

wait what if polymaker makes pps-gf

or pps-cf

[lapis eagle]

I think of it like this
PA-CF - Automotive chemical resistance, high heat resistance but requires annealing and moisture management. Expensive for low moisture variants.
PC-PBT - Great low temperature toughness and automotive chemical resistance. High heat resistance but requires a heated chamber to print well.

Fibers increase brittleness so I'd think that the fiber PC-PBT might be less beneficial for low temperatures, leaving the main advantage as heat resistance and chemical resistance. Both of these factors will depend on the crystallinity of the PBT component and the material still requires a high temp printer.

ASA-GF - Amorphous so heat resistance will be the same whether you process in a heated chamber, anneal or print on a open frame printer. UV resistant and high stiffness / strength.
PC-CF - Not UV resistant like ASA but better tensile strength, heat resistance and stiffness without needing to crystallize. It could be a good alternative to PA-CF for applications where Nylons low Tg is a problem and more cost-effective without the moisture problems during printing or application, it's more stable. I'm suggesting the PC component not be PolyMax PC or PolyLite PC (110 Tg), rather a raw PC material with a 140C Tg so that it adds a PC in Polymakers range with a 130C - 140C HDT.
PPS-GF - Meets the needs of PC-PBT in chemical resistance, in fact offers improvements. Also offers UV resistance as well and generally the customer base for PC-PBT would likely have hardware to suit PPS-GF. Like PC-PBT is is also semi-crystalline so you can think of it as a step up from the Nylons.

[lapis eagle]

Lol great minds think alike

PC-PBT GF could be useful for engine bay components, anything in contact with fuel, but I think PA-CF or PPS-GF would be better, either in ease of use (in the case of PA) or in performance and application versatility (in the case of PPS).

[summer socket]

pc cf would be uv resistant

pc gf not

[lapis eagle]

how come?

[summer socket]

cf absorbs uv

[summer socket]

pps gf tho... the print temps arent even that much higher than pc

[lapis eagle]

PC base material isn't resistant though unless you pick a grade which is UV stabilized.

[summer socket]

yeah i was thinkjng pc-r or 147tg pc for the gf or cf as well

[summer socket]

yes but the cf filler can absorb some uv making it more uv resistant

[lapis eagle]

More UV resistant, but not UV resistant 😉

For UV resistance I'm meaning 15 years no change in colour or mechanical properties

[young bear]

So pc in general is not uv resistant

?

[lapis eagle]

Nope

[young bear]

Looking at doing a project with pc-pbt and it will live outside mainly snow but still see sun

[summer socket]

yeah

[summer socket]

ohhhhh

[lapis eagle]

You'll see here how many grades of just regular PC Covestro make. Some are UV stabilized, some not.

[summer socket]

yeah use black filament if you want slight improvement

[young bear]

I would be happy if i get 5 years

[lapis eagle]

Here's all the PC-PBT / PC-PET's covestro make

Only 5 grades are UV stabilized

[young bear]

Man im so new to this stuff

[summer socket]

maybe. We need a PC PBT UV stabilized tho

[young bear]

Low market?

[summer socket]

yeah i remembered pc isnt usually uv resistant

[lapis eagle]

PPS-GF would fill that demand and open up more applications

[summer socket]

polymaker custom materials line???

[summer socket]

yeeah

i really want pps cf or pps gf but it costs so much

polymaker could price pps gf like $99 per 500g

usd

$99.99

and that isnt that bad

[young bear]

Do they have any pps?

[lapis eagle]

Lel the dunning-kruger effect 😉

[summer socket]

sadly no

[summer socket]

LOL

[lapis eagle]

The more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know

[summer socket]

im probsbly at@that first peak

hah

[young bear]

True

Im trying to bring more awareness to polymakers engineering filaments

Its crickets here

[summer socket]

yeah

personal fav polymaker filaments are their engineering ones

theyre really affordable for engineering filaments

[young bear]

So where do the nylons shine. The more i learned about it. It seams like pc is my answer

[lapis eagle]

Generally the lower the popularity, the more expensive it is. That's why we find PLA is so cheap compared to Nylon etc.

[young bear]

My vary greedy interest in gaining popularity in engineering filaments to bring the price down🤣

[summer socket]

low friction?

[summer socket]

yes buy then all

haha

[lapis eagle]

Unreinforced Nylon shines in wear resistance, it has some self-lubricating properties. It can be more ductile / more flexible. Easier to print (in the case of Polymakers), whether it warps more or less during annealing depends on geometry. Heat resistance can also get pretty high, but it depends what we define heat resistance as.

[young bear]

I rebuilt my printer to print pc-pbt

[summer socket]

ah yeah thats what it was. forgot it was self lubricating

[lapis eagle]

So CoPA is up to 180C vicat softening temp. PC is around 110. So above 110C CoPA is better, but before 110C the PC is a better choice.

So higher data point isn't always the better choice

[summer socket]

good job. I might get a dedicated printer for this

or build

[summer socket]

isnt the hdt of copa like 110

or lower

[young bear]

I can tell you all what not to do

🔥

[lapis eagle]

Yes, I'm describing vicat softening temp

Hardness with temperature

[summer socket]

wdym by that

printer fire?

[young bear]

No lots of parts died

[summer socket]

isnt that like a melting point like thing

[young bear]

Switches are rated to 80c

Abs softens at 100c

[lapis eagle]

Think of it like this. If you print a cylinder and put it in the oven, no load. At 150C you'll likely have the PC start to collapse, Nylon CoPA probably won't.

[summer socket]

oops. Was gonna change the motors and stuff. Using an ender 5 as a base? but upgraded

[young bear]

Belts stretch if not high temp rated

[summer socket]

true.

[summer socket]

that too

[lapis eagle]

By melting point what do you mean? printing temperature

[summer socket]

not rlly. I just realized how vicat works

[young bear]

Ldo has nice high temp motors but get the 1.8 steppers the 0.9 are super loud

[summer socket]

yeah was@gonna replace 1.8s with 1.8s

[lapis eagle]

Ok 🙂 DSC is good to understand "melting"

[summer socket]

ok thanks a lot

[lapis eagle]

Sorry wrong one, this one

[young bear]

You can definitely let me know if you need more info

[summer socket]

what would endo and exo be for

[lapis eagle]

I'm not too familiar, I assume it's short for endothermic and exothermic

[summer socket]

i've seen that one lol. Yeah I've worked with HT PLA and nylons so that makes some sense to me

with ovens

[lapis eagle]

Possibly a reaction at that temp

[summer socket]

so it gets colder and hotter as you change the flow?

i see

[summer socket]

with semicrystallines, it stays that rigid after tg?

i mean i know pps cf can resist like 200c level temps

sooo

[lapis eagle]

@fresh ferry may be best to speak on this and confirm if I mispeak. My understanding is Tg is a defined point of the "phase change". For amorphous it's pretty much when it shifts, for semi-crystallines it's spends more time in the leathery stage before entering the rubbery stage because you still have the alignment of the polymer chain helping with the modulus. As heat increases the molecules are more and more excited, with enough heat they are unstable to a point that we can more easily bend the semi-crystalline as temp increases.

[young bear]

Pc-pbt

Yeah i would love a description of what each means

Tg

[lapis eagle]

Tg is glass transition temperature

Tm is melting temperature. It's the temperature where semi-crystalline regions will melt and dissolve.

It's why Polymaker PLA is heat resistant at 140C when produced as a filament, but when we print the heat resistance is only 60C.

It has a degree of crystallization when spooled as a filament, the the crystallization is destroyed around 150C, and since we are printing at 200 - 220C our crystallization is basically the same as normal PLA.

[young bear]

Interesting

[lapis eagle]

So if you anneal Nylon, it'll handle say 120C. Heat it above it's melting temperature (190C) and you will destroy the crystallization, when it cools down it'll have very different crystallinity / heat resistance to what you had before and thus if you tried to heat it back up to 120C, it would not have that heat resistance.

Unless you recrystallize it

[young bear]

So is their a way to get it back higher?

[lapis eagle]

Amorphous plastics like ABS, ASA etc. don't have a defined melting temperature. So if you heat it up to 100C it is great. Let it cool down great. Heat it to 140C above it's heat resistance, the shape will change but if you let it cool and heat it back up to 100C that new shape will be kept because the heat resistance is still 100C no matter what.

[lapis eagle]

Re-crystallizing it, aka annealing it again

[young bear]

Ah still learning terms

[lapis eagle]

Td is the decomposition temperature, which is when the backbone of the polymer actually breaks down. It basically means you're destroying the plastic irreversibly.

[fresh ferry]

Woah so many messages, I could not find where I was pinged lol.
Anything I can help with?
I see Matt is here so I dont think I will bring much more knowledge 🤣

[lapis eagle]

Tc is crystallization temperature, it's the temperature at which the crystallization is at it's fastest. The best energy for crystallization. It doesn't mean it's the best temperature to anneal at. Purely just a data point.

Naturally, ABS has no crystallization temp since it isn't semi-crystalline.

[lapis eagle]

lel this comment @fresh ferry I was asked if with semicrystallines, if they stay rigid after tg. I'm not sure if my explanation is the best, it's how I understand it.

[fresh ferry]

Yes, its correct.

After Tg, the amorphous phase of the polymers will soften (rubbery state) however the crystal phase will stay unchanged maintaining the polymer overall structure.
It comes down to the crystallinity degree of the polymer, the higher the degree to closer to Tm the HDT will be, the lower the degree to closer to Tg.
There is a little bit more to it when you add fibers but in general I believe thats how it behaves 🙂

[lapis eagle]

Thanks Nico 🙂 wonderfully described!

[young bear]

So this would be important for me because i always print hot

[lapis eagle]

Yeah most of the data is in the tds

Looks like it wasn't listed on the PC-PBT TDS

For ABS the Td is >380°C

[summer socket]

the crystallization temp for PC-PBT is so high lol

[lapis eagle]

Yes, it's quite high for most materials

[summer socket]

wait isn't prusa pc blend cf pc-pbt?

or am I just plain wrong

because i know their PC gets more heat resistant as its annealed

which makes 0 sense considering normal PC is amorphous

but if it was a blend, who knows whats in the blend

[lapis eagle]

Nope, no PBT

Always search the filament and TDS along with the filament name and SDS (Safety Data Sheet)

I'd ask them directly if PC Blend is Amorphous or Semi-Crystalline. Keep in mind there are many additives beyond PBT. For example PC/PET (PET is semi-crystalline, PETG is not), then there's also some wild things like this https://patents.google.com/patent/CN103951955A/en

My best guess is that perhaps annealing helps the bond between the PC and carbon fibres + reduces stress. It may help with heat resistance. Or maybe the marketing team are misleading 😅 who knows

[summer socket]

well mytechfun showed it increased temp resistance

sooo

[lapis eagle]

Ok well certainly it's not PC-PBT.

So someone asked this question.
Q: If I choose to anneal would that make the part stiffer, potentially allowing similar damage to what I experienced with the annealed HTPLA-CF?"
Prusa Response: Unfortunatelly, annealing improves significantly only the heat deflection temperature. Other values stay more or less the same, within standard measurement deviation.

I also came across this response as well from the Prusa team
"Also, it shouldn’t be stressed with too much weight on it, the 130 °C resistance applies for 0.45 MPa stress. When stressed with 1.8 MPa, the heat deflection temperature is 119.4 °C."

Source: https://blog.prusa3d.com/prusament_pc_blend_carbon_fiber_mechanical_resistance_pccf_51028/

One thought I had was that perhaps the heat resistance isn't improving per say. Maybe stress from the printing process is effecting the result of the 0.45 MPa test. Releasing the stress via annealing might help with the result of that test. According to Prusa team the HDT with higher load is unchanged after annealing.

I found this paper, unfortunately it's hidden behind a paywall. The abstract mentions residual stress and HDT values, it seems to suggest no relation, opposite to my unqualified thought. It does however mention factors which can cause HDT values to vary over 20°C, so perhaps there are factors which can change the HDT result of amorphous PolyCarbonate.

"This paper qualitatively disputes the claims of the effect of residual stress on HDT values. It is argued that changes in residual stress level and HDT values with physical aging are symptoms of the structural relaxation, but no causal effect exists between these two symptoms."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/mame.200800334

[summer socket]

oh

weird

and neat

[summer socket]

interesting...

idk what prusa put in their pc blend

but it makes it more chemical resistant>

[lapis eagle]

I don't see anything saying it's more chemical resistant due to their blend?

They say it's one of their most chemical resistant materials, as in more chemical resistant than Prusament PLA, PETG, ASA etc.

https://prusament.com/chemical-resistance-of-3d-printing-materials/#:~:text=Prusament PC Blend is one,are exposed to selected chemicals.

I'll cross reference tomorrow but I presume that Prusas PC-Blend has similar chemical resistance to "standard" PC. Which can also be good. https://www.calpaclab.com/polycarbonate-chemical-compatibility-chart/

[lapis eagle]

Prusa results seem similar to the compatibility chart I shared. Key differences were that PC Blend is worse with isopropyl, better with hydrochloric acid, worse with nitric acid.

[summer socket]

oh huh

[lapis eagle]

Yeah PC doesn't necessarily have bad chemical resistance, but it's not as wide a range as PP or PEEK etc.

If you're interested this is a useful chart from professional plastics. Very generic but good to try find a family of plastics. The specifics can differ of course, this is just a general overview. https://www.professionalplastics.com/professionalplastics/ChemicalResistanceChartofPlastics.pdf

[lapis eagle]

Polymaker™ PC-PBT is resistant to hydrocarbons, alcohols, organic acids, inorganic aqueous salts, and mild base and acid solutions.

Polymaker™ PC-PBT is not resistant to strong alkalis or chlorinated, aromatic, ketone- or ester-containing solvents.

So I'd expect aromatic hydrocarbons are a no go with PC, PC-PBT and PC-blend. Haven't tried though.

[young bear]

Wow this is a great resource

[summer socket]

oh huh

[lapis eagle]

@summer socket "Aromatic hydrocarbons are an important series of hydrocarbons found in almost every petroleum mixture from any part of the world. " https://www.e-education.psu.edu/fsc432/content/aromatic-hydrocarbons

Not a chemist or mechanic, but in automotive industry my understanding is that aromatic hydrocarbons are found in automotive exhaust, for example benzene is found in diesel exhaust. So probably for a plastic part near a car exhaust or for a fuel cap or carbon canister you probably would want something with good resistance to aromatic hydrocarbons. If we look at the chart PA12 supposedly has good resistance so could be useful for some applications, but of course it's best to refer to what is used in the real industry and do some real world testing. For a fuel cap supposedly HDPE is used (high density polyethylene), not an easy filament to print.

[summer socket]

ah... rip pcpbt

[summer socket]

how abt pcabs

[lapis eagle]

Why RIP? PC-PBT still has great chemical resistance.

[summer socket]

true except maybe not for automotive

[lapis eagle]

I wouldn't agree. Automotive has varying requirements depending on the part. So for an EV battery holder, PC-PBT may be great.

PC-PBT is also commonly used for exterior body parts for automotive industry.

[summer socket]

okay interesting

[summer socket]

did not know that :)

goes to show how little i know about this

[wary berry]

speaking of PPS... thoughts on this stuff? 50% off right now https://www.amazon.com/toughened-Retardant-Engineering-Temperature-Resistance/dp/B09N9JDV6Q

[summer socket]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i have no clue tbh.

its not reinforced though so its heat resistance is around like 90-100c

established in '97?

[lapis eagle]

Maybe a division of an existing plastics business

They are saying 180C heat resistance, not sure what testing method. Stiffness (HDT) or hardness (vicat). Generic data suggests around 100C - 135C HDT for PPS. Tg at around 85C. Perhaps contact them for the TDS, they said on Amazon that you can contact them for it 🙂

[wary berry]

I've sent a request

[summer socket]

possibly

[silent charm]

@fresh ferry multiple people in the dutch community have noticed that Prusa changed their formula of their PC_CF over the last year making it weaker. This makes having a good alternative like Polymaker PC CF even more important i've been looking for a good replacement but haven't found any so if Polymaker were to produce it i would love t

[young bear]

add this to the #1046065844364517457 page so he can look into it

[fresh ferry]

Very good to know, we should be releasing ours in a few months! 🙂

[silent charm]

that's awesome news be sure to let us know when it gets released haha i need some new spools 🤣

i've only got 1 spool left of the good PC-CF from prusa and then i'm stuck with the newer less good batches

[summer socket]

im excited :D

[halcyon dock]

I had a few rolls of the old stuff (it'd just been a while and I hadn't used it up) and the new stuff at the same time and the new stuff seemed to print worse for me, of course that's just anecdotal and could be up to inconsistencies apart from formula.

There's no functional difference for my use case but it's interesting nonetheless.

[dim bridge]

what happened with this? Any PC CF coming up?

[fresh ferry]

A few announcements towards this direction next week at Rapid 🙂

[dim bridge]

I'm keeping an eye on tct 2024 news today but please post info here if you can. I am ready to replace my PLA test parts in my printer build and just found out pa6-cf won't work due to creep

[maiden mortar]

@dim bridge pps-cf, pet-cf, and petg-cf

[wary berry]

Nice additions!

[lapis eagle]

almost called it 😉

[molten socket]

@young bear 2 questions

[young bear]

Sure

[molten socket]

1. pps-cf what hotend temp, what bed temp

[young bear]

310-350

[molten socket]

2. pps-cf tg vs heat deflection tmp ...what....(isnt pps tg 85) whats this 200c heat deflection temp

polymaker.link test page

[young bear]

Yeah. Was showing the label

The page will be up soon

[molten socket]

tg vs heat defection

isnt tg is when it start softing

how can the heat deflection be 200 when pps tg is 85

[young bear]

@fresh ferry any word on the TDS for the new PPS-10

[molten socket]

so basically is PPS-cf a good printer material for printed parts

or is it too brittle

[young bear]

That is because the product is semi-crystalline and the crystals will line up once you annealed the product giving you the higher htd

[molten socket]

so print it and anneal it (say 100c) then it will handel 200c?

[young bear]

You will need to anneal to get the full listed properties.

It reacts a lot like metal.

[molten socket]

what temp to annel

[young bear]

We had 200ish lbs on a printed part and it was holding just fine

This was 200+ lbs don't recall the exact number and it didn't break in the z axis

[molten socket]

what u printing the pps-cf on

[young bear]

Voron v0

[molten socket]

rapido?

[young bear]

Bambu hotend 😂

350c

[molten socket]

i though that cant handel 350

[molten socket]

hummm

[fresh ferry]

In 2 weeks I think 🙂

[fresh ferry]

It broke at 250lbs 🙂

It held 4 people before from 60kg to 100kg I think (220lbs)

[halcyon dock]

TG is more or less a useless number

HDT actually measures deflection by temperature which is what matters

Though usually the two are pretty similar, TG is more of a material property whereas HDT is a tested value like impact strength

[molten socket]

Hope to see some real word test on high temp Voron - doom cube test on this pps-cf

@young bear pps-cf doom cube soon tm?

[young bear]

I have a peek capable tridant 😂

[maiden mortar]

@fresh ferry can we have a channel for engineering filaments?

i just learned so much reading back in this channel but iut is buried until @new ideas

[maiden mortar]

@fresh ferry pretty please?

[fresh ferry]

Sure, but we need to be more precised, what do you think the channel will be about? Because if its about new ideas of engineering filament then its the same as this forum.
If its about printbuster then we have this #1046470181746118706 🙂

[maiden mortar]

I was thinking print assistance or discussion around engineering filaments, there use cases, and they needs however, on a side note, maybe rename print busters sometime more intuitive

I take it back though, this server has too many channels as it is lol

[lapis eagle]

Maybe a form for users with high temp specs (heated chambers) (400C nozzles) that way users can help with advice for materials like PEEK, Ultem, PET, PC-PBT, PEKK, Annealing

Call it "over 300 club"

[fresh ferry]

We used to have product oriented channels, but we found that application oriented channels was more effective

[halcyon dock]

that's a good idea

[maiden mortar]

Well, I was thinking more pa and the new pet/pps filament PM is releasing.

But to be honest, I think I've found a home in the armchair engineering discord..

They aren't huge fans of PM filaments but they are really pushing things. 100c chanber temps, etc

[fresh ferry]

Oh really, is it because the lack of Ultra Performance material? (Hopefully they will like Fiberon more 🙂 )

[maiden mortar]

no, it was more a believe that pm sacrifices material performance for printablility

they honestly seem like preetty level headed guys. i think if you joined you could get some insight form some guys who are really pushing the envelope

https://discord.com/channels/1029426383614648421/1151296680168275978

this is their hot printer channel

[fresh ferry]

Yes I am actually already in the Discord (just didnt remembered the name).
I am more of a data oriented guy and recently many Discord are growing hearsay information too quickly, and although I keep figthing on the Voron Discord, I give up a little bit on all the other.

(At least until I have time to resume Printbusters)

[maiden mortar]

well, i think these guys are more hands on, pushing thigns to failure, and reporting back type of guys

[fresh ferry]

I just scanned a few recent message about Polymaker, and its still that Blend ABS thinking (like Blend VS Pure) which I disagree with

[maiden mortar]

theyt are all running printers with 80-100c chambers

i was just a user so i think they were a little less reserved. i think if made it known that you were from PM and actually looking for feedback to improve thigns, it would bear fruit

[fresh ferry]

Absolutely, my meaning is more that I like more constructive "reporting"
For example some explanation of test they did, not just "yeah thats blended "curse word" ABS and will not work"

[maiden mortar]

i think youi woudl get that is what i am saying

[fresh ferry]

Very open to it for sure

I like the Printbuster community here that we built, searching for scientific answers, ressources, papers, ect..

My personal opinion is some (not all) other groups of users are more affecting by marketing claims (which sometime works in our favor and sometime dont)

I like how the Prinbuster crew dig information much deeper on everything (at least thats the part I enjoy) its very objective 🙂

(even if sometimes it shows how not good some of our materials are lol )

[maiden mortar]

where i can fidn printbusters?

[fresh ferry]

We have #1046470181746118706 and archive #1046470181746118706
Additionally we had a 3-4h weekly livestream (which I will resume in a few weeks) 🙂

We may develop this much further and we have very active members such as but not limited to;
@devout vessel @young bear @lament kiln @night tiger @molten socket @lofty copper @santiago (twitter) and many more

I would define Printbuster as a movement trying to be more critical about what it is said about 3D printing and develop knowledge and resources using first principles thinking and (a lot) of testing.
We also built the community with an open mind meaning we accept different reasoning without judgement and we accept to be challenged and try to always stay constructive. (We can end up on heated debate but always for the good of developing our 3d printing knowledge 🙂 )

[molten socket]

So 8hrs stream on pps-cf warping stream

[fresh ferry]

Wait our PPS-CF warps?? 😂

[lament kiln]

I pushed the PPS-CF with as low of a temperature as I could and couldnt make it warp. I have successful prints down to 300c/60c. The physical properties of the material will be absolutely terrible, but it doesnt warp.

@maiden mortar Bob and I hang out in #custom-printers. You can ask engineering material questions there or open up a thread in #1044149747621048360 if it's going to be a longer discussion. We use lots of PA etc.

[maiden mortar]

I'm looking to build an annealing oven out of a toaster oven so I much be and to do some testing soon

[lofty copper]

I'm beginning Izod sheer testing of the entire Fiberon line today, video will probably drop next Saturday at 1200 CDT. I will also be adding tensile tests to the rest of the materials already tested in my last video. Following the sheer test I will be moving onto bending tests in a controlled manner utilizing 200g weights.

https://youtu.be/XGWeNbi0SmM

Annealing oven (lab oven) has been shipped, no tracking in the US yet so I don't know when it will arrive so in the mean time I will be doing very un-scientific annealing in a regular convection oven.

[young bear]

PPS recovery / or abstract art 🎨

[lofty copper]

I'm fortunate, I haven't made any of this "abstract art" with the very expensive media.........yet.

[young bear]

Available for purchase now.
Here are the direct affiliate links
https://us.polymaker.com/products/fiberon-petg-rcf08?aff=823

https://us.polymaker.com/products/fiberon-pps-cf10?aff=823

https://us.polymaker.com/products/fiberon-pet-cf17?aff=823

[halcyon dock]

Why do two of the title lines say Nylon @fresh ferry

[lament kiln]

It's just the links showing weird things. They go to the correct page

[fresh ferry]

Because I am not careful 😢
lemme fix that now