tech-support

[tall acorn]

so you could imagine what some games look like with the latency of three fake frames interrupting whatever the next real frame was supposed to be at 4x framegen

and how your GPU will spend some resources on generating those extra three fake frames before the next real frame comes in, lowering your final base real framerate even more, as by the time it gets to 60 real frames, it's already inserted 180 total fake frames before that, which cost resources that your GPU might not have

so realistically most cards won't even get to 60 real frames

this is for 4x frame generation, of course

[pallid owl]

Yeah why I have a dual GPU setup.

Main GPU runs at 100% load at 100-120fps, and then then my second uses lossless scaling to output a constant 240fps.

[proven sundial]

What's your main gpu anyway ?

[pallid owl]

9070xt

[proven sundial]

Fair enough

[pallid owl]

9070 secondary but this is an overkill triple 1440p setup. Like 1.5x 4k pixels

[proven sundial]

Oh lol makes sense

[sudden sinew]

https://youtube.com/shorts/NZSgEDO7s2Y

[pallid owl]

And the 9070 is like 80% used just doing the frame gen

So it costs a lot of GPU resources

[toxic atlas]

do not forget to remove the french language pack after installing linux by typing in your terminal
sudo rm -fr /*

[sudden sinew]

why framegen and the updcaling story

[proven sundial]

Yeah but at that point nabudis you are just doing luxury frame gen

[sudden sinew]

LMfAO

[golden zenith]

you can ask your husbands what happen to that story

[sudden sinew]

@hazy venture

[versed nimbus]

How are you already awake

[sudden sinew]

need you to explain the stuffs

[sudden sinew]

was awake hrs ago

[pallid owl]

Yeah for sure. But more to reinforce that doing it on a single GPU will cost some 'base" fps. No way around that one single GPU.

Also 9070xt+9070 is still the same price as one 5080 here... So not terrible value actually haha

[sudden sinew]

went to uni

[versed nimbus]

Did you sleep 2 hours?

[golden zenith]

t404 was napping

[sudden sinew]

then did some stuffs and arrangements

[golden zenith]

not fully asleep

[versed nimbus]

Oh I thought sleep sleep

[proven sundial]

Too bad there is no crossfire anymore huh

[sudden sinew]

yea, mid-noon nap

[versed nimbus]

I can't do those

I lay for 20 minutes not able to sleep and feel absolutely terrible after

[pallid owl]

Oh lossless dual GPU is far better than crossfire/sli ever was. Micro stutter and messing with drivers sucked hard

[sudden sinew]

because you don't do much

[proven sundial]

Well yeah but having a high raw framerate when it worked was magic 😂

[sudden sinew]

imagine full day school work uni stuffs mixed you'll cry begging for sleep 24/7

(well atleast uni is somewhat more relaxed so I still got the mood to tri-mode)

[pallid owl]

I want someone to test crossfire/sli now with all focus on 1% lows and stuttering. That shit was just terrible. To get around it the advice of the day was just use 3x GPUs to get so much fps it doesn't matter. Which is what I did with trifire 7970 and later 290x setups.

Had some sli titans for a period and they worked better than crossfire, but definitely wasn't perfect

[proven sundial]

Hmm yeah i had the r9 295 x2

But 0.1 percent lows were actually good with crossfire

[pallid owl]

Yeah my trifire 7970 was actually a 7970 and 7990(dual 7970 card)

[golden zenith]

LMFAO NVIDIA

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-unlaunches-its-geforce-595-59-driver-after-reports-of-fan-and-clock-issues

[sudden sinew]

[proven sundial]

So game breaking driver

[sudden sinew]

these dam "AI-Sht"-Vibe Programmers

[proven sundial]

Well hardware unboxed did say more errors occured with the latest nvidia drivers

In this year

Atleast per driver

[tall acorn]

it's mostly been going downhill for a while, "not game ready" is kinda crazy tbh

every launch has some sort of issue with some sort of game or card model/series

there's only a few significantly stable launches ironically that have already been community verified

[proven sundial]

Well nvidia won't be making too much gpu's anyway

Since most are going to datacenters

[sudden sinew]

and since datacenters got their own drivers anyway

forget rtx

unless you're rich-ass to get enterprise-gpus

[proven sundial]

Time for Moore Threads to step in

[sudden sinew]

time for amd to beat em

[toxic atlas]

how about no
we'll be getting a monopoly again

let them fight tooth and nail

[proven sundial]

Intel / Moore Threads and AMD

[toxic atlas]

also big.LITTLE is disgusting on x86

like keep that shit for ARM

[proven sundial]

Well yeah we saw how that went on intel cpus

[sudden sinew]

yes

[sudden sinew]

that arm big.LITTLE architecture is disgusted

either both big or both lil

[proven sundial]

I suppose the amd 12 core single ccx will be nice

[versed nimbus]

Xomori please delete my pc tomorrow

[sudden sinew]

me when 16 cores

[sudden sinew]

Can I delete your PC tmr?

without any court file?

[proven sundial]

Don't be so silly

[versed nimbus]

I don't see a fix till 1.1 gamble

[sudden sinew]

I'll give you, new path of discovery

something beyond windows, MacOS and your daily drive smartphone's OS

[proven sundial]

Yes LFS

Where linus himself is located

[versed nimbus]

Not really interested in swapping to linux every time to play one game

[proven sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/linus-torvalds-gif-24087184

[sudden sinew]

[sudden sinew]

you dont even need to change for genshin wuwa and stuffs

and most games even accept steam proton except a very few

[proven sundial]

Genshin wuwa ake all run fine on linux

[sudden sinew]

yep

even hsr runs fine

[proven sundial]

The only thing that does not run is well valorant rust and some other shit with the same anti cheat

[sudden sinew]

since dwproton is a Heaven for Gacha without getting banned

[sudden sinew]

isolate it to a windows container or smth with gpu pass

[proven sundial]

Yeah valorant will still see it hahah

😂

[sudden sinew]

tbh I dont like valo

[versed nimbus]

Valorant is for people that can see 1 pixel in 50 ms

[proven sundial]

Anyway that being said

Linux has come a far way

Thanks to valve and surrounding devs

https://tenor.com/view/gabe-newell-gabening-intensifies-shaking-gif-15589000

[sudden sinew]

thanks for everyone rescuing gaming and monopoly

[toxic atlas]

Isn't he on Fedora now?

[proven sundial]

Yeah he is now

[toxic atlas]

I'd you want gachas look up Twintail Launcher

[sudden sinew]

look, even the one wanting simplicity uses linux

btw time to migrate my music career slowly to linux

[proven sundial]

Does your program work ?

[sudden sinew]

reaper? yeah

Native Instruments kinda no

Serum (1) works, under cpu bcz of d2d

[proven sundial]

Hmmm alright

[sudden sinew]

need to make my own directx2d one day

[proven sundial]

Where there is a will there is a way

[sudden sinew]

question is time

[proven sundial]

Yeah hahahah

[sudden sinew]

but still imma migrate slowly

[proven sundial]

The only program keeping me on windows is fusion compute

[sudden sinew]

worst case I'll ask dwproton devs to implement d2d1.dll for serum

btw serum2 works magically on proton

somehow

[proven sundial]

Welp fusion compute is dx 9

But it does not work with a translation layer

[sudden sinew]

huawei moment

[sudden sinew]

btw why fusion compute?

[proven sundial]

Old huawei servers

They suck

😭

[sudden sinew]

[sudden sinew]

no migration ways?

[proven sundial]

We'll remove them in 2 years

So for now deal with it

[hazy venture]

I'm just trying to understand why you get higher total fps when you enable FG when your GPU utilisation is already at 100% cuz zencrox tells me the process takes a bit and the fake frames costs more than real frames (I'm sure it was misunderstanding tho)

[sudden sinew]

well, about AI

you know what token means right?

these are based on the gpu's raw power by default using cuda

[hazy venture]

No

[sudden sinew]

that's where npus comes in

[hazy venture]

Npus?

[sudden sinew]

Neural Processing

[hazy venture]

Are you 100% sure it uses GPU npu's

[sudden sinew]

the rtx doesn't have NPUs

that's why they use GPU power to power AI

and AI uses a lot of GPU power

[hazy venture]

But what about AMD FG? you don't need npu for that.

[sudden sinew]

just to think, and do output

[pallid owl]

Youll get more frames with frame gen enabled, but less of them will be real frames(if gpu is capped out that is)

[toxic atlas]

Fake frames do not cost more than real frames
Most of that shit is interpolation with AA

[hazy venture]

Oh

[sudden sinew]

then yes, but you'll never see it's not capped

[golden zenith]

... why are we back to this topic

[pallid owl]

then you wont loose as many, but itll still be slightly higher input lag

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

Oh ok ok

So you lose a bit real frame but get a bit more fake frames.. lol

[pallid owl]

capped like 100% usage I mean btw

not fps capped

[hazy venture]

Oh

[pallid owl]

poor wording on my part haha

[hazy venture]

Yeah my original question was if fps ISNT capped

[sudden sinew]

fps cap is different

[toxic atlas]

You lose ~10-20% performance for x2 fps (after that initial performance loss)

[pallid owl]

yeah if it isnt 100% load and you have overhead itll just bne the slight dip in input lag most likely

[hazy venture]

Oh ok so generated frames cost like less than 0.5x times more than real frames, got it

[sudden sinew]

you use amd graphics card? iirc even your igpu is not enough for fg tasks

[hazy venture]

What? Fps being uncapped means your GPU is maxed out (mostly)

[sudden sinew]

[pallid owl]

and it depends on res and multiplier. 4k framegen costs more than 1440p or 1080 obviously

[sudden sinew]

yes, which requires a second real gou to step in

[hazy venture]

No?

[pallid owl]

think of frame gen as a visual option for motion clarity and not a performance increasing setting

[hazy venture]

I get motion sick when enabling frame gen bruh

[sudden sinew]

elaborate this more a bit

[hazy venture]

Idk it's just sickens me

[sudden sinew]

speaking of... motion blur

[hazy venture]

You can put AMD FG on certain games even if you don't have AMD GPU.

(looking at you, cyberpunk)

[sudden sinew]

you have a 2nd gpu???

even if yes it works

you need to buy one

[hazy venture]

NO?

I do have igpu which is normal, but it's NOT used

[sudden sinew]

and you think your igpu can framegen shi for the rtx???

[toxic atlas]

Yes
Because it can't handle fast movement and interpolation looks mushy

[sudden sinew]

[toxic atlas]

Giving you motion blur

[hazy venture]

Fuck my discord bugs out

[toxic atlas]

Which is a fucking warcrime

[hazy venture]

NO?

[sudden sinew]

so

[hazy venture]

I was about to say no but my discord bigs

[sudden sinew]

btw I'm asking myself...

why the OS doesn't let multiple gpus render one stuff

[hazy venture]

I'm back

My phone is SO bugging

I apologize if I'm not responding

[sudden sinew]

[toxic atlas]

Welcome to CrossFire lol

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

So? I can still enable amd FG without having AMD gpu

Maybe it's the game own FG but idc cuz we're talking about all FGs

[sudden sinew]

with what do you want to render

[hazy venture]

IDK?

[sudden sinew]

and with what do you want to framegen

[hazy venture]

My own gpu

Both

Same

Lol

[toxic atlas]

Because AMD's FrameGen is an open implementation and isn't tied to specific hardware in some specific GPU model

[hazy venture]

I only have amd Radeon graphics and a 3080 ti, what tf do you want my game to use

[sudden sinew]

that's why you don't know your system is processed

[toxic atlas]

Nvidia's FrameGen is dependent on the Tensor cores in Nvidia GPUs

[hazy venture]

I know, I said that because my WIFEY said that you need npu for FG

[toxic atlas]

The fuck you don't

[hazy venture]

I answered gpu dw

[hazy venture]

Ikr 😭

[sudden sinew]

^^

[hazy venture]

Tensor cores... Doesn't all rtx have them

[toxic atlas]

Yes

[hazy venture]

So why can't all rtx use Nvidia FG

[sudden sinew]

these are

[toxic atlas]

Because it depends on devs, if they enable it or not

Also yeah money

[sudden sinew]

and because of lacking power to do it

[sudden sinew]

instructions do differ too

[toxic atlas]

Nvidia limits older cards to older versions of framegen

[hazy venture]

What? But Nvidia said that 40xx series and above have frame gen but not below?

[summer pagoda]

I recall a game bug where 20 and 30 series had access to frame gen before it was patched, worked fine for those users

[hazy venture]

Lmao

[toxic atlas]

Because they don't want to cut into the 40-series sales with their older cards

[sudden sinew]

marketing

[hazy venture]

THEN WHY ISNT ENDFIELD FRAME GEN NOT ALLOWED

IF ITS POSSIBLE TO USE IT

[toxic atlas]

Giving it to older cards means people keep their cards for longer

[hazy venture]

RAAAAAAH

[toxic atlas]

Again, because it's dev-dependent

[hazy venture]

Bro Nvidia doesn't care about gamers

[sudden sinew]

THEY HAVE DEV ISSUE

meow

[hazy venture]

AAAAAAAA

Then why not put AMD FG IN THE GAME

[toxic atlas]

They still want that sweet cash for newer slop instead of optimizing for the older shit

[hazy venture]

Lmao

[sudden sinew]

because they dont use AMD to develop game

[hazy venture]

wifeyyyy ❤️

[hazy venture]

Lmao

[toxic atlas]

Because exclusivity deal with Nvidia

[sudden sinew]

the only amd is the cpu

[sudden sinew]

this too

[hazy venture]

Lol okie

Dw zencrox I understand now

Thank you

[tall acorn]

also because newer cards are dependent on hardware that older cards don't physically have

[hazy venture]

Lol

[tall acorn]

[hazy venture]

Also newer cards MAY lack some.. hardware specific drivers that MAY cause them to be WORSE than their older counterpart..

[tall acorn]

some stuff isn't entirely dependent on the newer hardware, but mostly relies on it to function in an optimal state

[hazy venture]

Yeah I meant like

Physicx type of stuff

[sudden sinew]

THANK YOU

[hazy venture]

There's other type of things like that that's just worse than older cards

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

You cheating on me???

[sudden sinew]

Older Tensor cores lack of instructions than newer ones

[dusk furnace]

Anyone know how to fix this? i don't have any particular program installed on pc

[sudden sinew]

no, I just side for someone else's argument

[hazy venture]

There's sides? Oh..

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

Didn't know

We had an argument

[hazy venture]

Bro what tf did you use

[tall acorn]

whether or not that was avoidable when developing new features and releasing new cards... who's to say 🤷‍♂️

[hazy venture]

TECHNICIANSSSS GOOOO

Lol

[sudden sinew]

rawr me and you'll learn more about.. why features are there and why they require that ability on hardwares

reminds me of the tpm story and the vt-d feature

[hazy venture]

Rawr??? ❤️

Cute wifey

Brb

[sudden sinew]

You'll learn about... x86_64 versions

[dusk furnace]

Literally nothing lol. I barely have any programs on this PC—only 3 game launchers (Genshin, Minecraft, and Arknights lol) plus a browser, Steam, and three social apps (Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram). I don't know what tf is happening... Yesterday I played without any problems.

[toxic atlas]

Do you have manufacturer bloat (like Armoury Crate) running in the background?

[dusk furnace]

don't know what it is... i've the xbox game bar stuff

[sudden sinew]

not a question you should ask first... now it hardens stuffs

[sudden sinew]

so, what did you ran while opening AK:E?

[dusk furnace]

Vivaldi browser, discord, whatsapp, telegram, nothing else

[sudden sinew]

did you try the game without vivaldi browser?

or before that... did you repair the game? and how frequent?

[dusk furnace]

it\1

[hazy venture]

Howwwww :(

[sudden sinew]

DMs

[hazy venture]

i'm back on desktop UwU

[sudden sinew]

need you to elaborate this, I don't understand the content much

looks like game works I assume

[hazy venture]

never heard of Vivaldi browser-

[sudden sinew]

opera alts

[hazy venture]

oh god ok

[toxic atlas]

I use it at work
It's chromium-based and doesn't respect Active Directory Group Policy for chrome

[toxic atlas]

Not opera-based

[sudden sinew]

ik it

[hazy venture]

lmao-

[drowsy cipher]

remember when opera still used the presto engine and was the only browser that allowed tab stacking?

[hazy venture]

it seems to be based on chromium

tho what the hell is chromium

[sudden sinew]

wait isnt opera chromium-based

[sudden sinew]

engine to power chrome or edge

[hazy venture]

it's based to be a fork(idk like "reviving" things) of opera but it's not based on the opera.. architecture it seems

[drowsy cipher]

since 2013 it is

[toxic atlas]

Opera GX is chromium-based

[hazy venture]

you mean opera Gshit-

[sudden sinew]

yeah, and I didn't state it's opera based, just an "opera alt" because it's "forked"

tbh I don't trust Opera

[drowsy cipher]

well before 2013 there was the presto engine, back when opera was good

[hazy venture]

same

[proven sundial]

This is all you need

[hazy venture]

nah i prefer waterfox-

/jk

[sudden sinew]

I prefer degoogled chrome

thorium e.g.

[hazy venture]

THORIUM?

oh that's an app

[proven sundial]

Or use netscape if you are stupid 😂

[hazy venture]

b-but.. firefox..

[drowsy cipher]

just curl your webpages and read them in notepad

[sudden sinew]

do we have same think

altho I'd use curl and interpret the thing to graphics

[hazy venture]

bro

[drowsy cipher]

stallman used curl and printed the pages a couple years ago, dont know if he still does

[proven sundial]

Banned

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

damn i was about to ping mods

they're fast lol

[sudden sinew]

#do-not-post-or-get-beaned

[drowsy cipher]

do not bean or get posted

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

how about we curl up in b-

hmmm

[proven sundial]

No curling you demons

[sudden sinew]

I speak of curl:// and then you with this

[hazy venture]

WHYYY

[drowsy cipher]

i cant auth on my vsphere client

[hazy venture]

IDK I THOUGHT YALL TALKED ABOUT SOME RANDOM SHIT

idk what's curling in tech terms

😭

[hazy venture]

you didn't say no tho

[sudden sinew]

https://curl.se

[hazy venture]

ooooo, still dunno wtf is that but idc!

[drowsy cipher]

gently push the webpage onto your pc

[hazy venture]

i prefer NOT knowing

so that i can say my way of curling

[toxic atlas]

HTML in your terminal

[hazy venture]

😭

wtf is a te-

IM JOKING

ig it's CMD or whatevs

[toxic atlas]

windows has curl too :D

[sudden sinew]

Client for URLs

or C URL Request Library, a C (programming lang) lib to fetch urls

[drowsy cipher]

cool kids use pwsh

[hazy venture]

i can curl people near windows? oh that's.. cool..?

[toxic atlas]

though in powershell it's an alias for a cmdlet
you can type curl.exe to get to the actual executable

[hazy venture]

oh ppsh? yeah that's fun

[drowsy cipher]

heck of a shotgun

[hazy venture]

SHOTGUN?

😭

we call it the bean gun i think

[proven sundial]

😂

[drowsy cipher]

old ass meme

[sudden sinew]

not cool kids use windows for entire lif--

[hazy venture]

thompson lmao

[hazy venture]

ITS NOT A FUCKING SHO-

oh

it's a meme lol ok

[toxic atlas]

i remember using that shit in CoD 1

[hazy venture]

and bo2!

it's in alcatraz UwU

tho it has a round mag, but oh well

[drowsy cipher]

video games severely overrepresent how common the drum mag was

[hazy venture]

loool prob

it would just make the gun trash tho

it already has so little firepower.. giving it a small mags makes it.. interesting.

[hazy venture]

in a game where you kill zombies, i'd say a drum mag is almost always better-

[proven sundial]

Nobody remembers this gun

[hazy venture]

lol not the

chicom

[drowsy cipher]

"little firepower" during a time when soldiers wore no body armor

[hazy venture]

yeah ik i'm just talking about black ops

[hazy venture]

BRO THATS SO TRUE

[drowsy cipher]

i raise you

[hazy venture]

I TRIED LINUX AND I DIDNT EVEN STAND A DAY

[drowsy cipher]

the taurus kurwa

[dusk furnace]

Sorry, the computer froze and now it works lol. I really need to talk to computer support.

[hazy venture]

OF THIS SHIT

[sudden sinew]

is ok, if possible, you can ask people here to see in why your pc froze or memory got corrupted

[summer pagoda]

Peak

[hazy venture]

yeah, that's the entire point of the tech support channel!

[proven sundial]

Mofo

[drowsy cipher]

#gun-support

[hazy venture]

bro wtf is that

in what games does this possibly exist

[summer pagoda]

a hand remover

[hazy venture]

the enemy right..? right????

[proven sundial]

Yes stalker 2 used 22 Gb of ram and on linux 10

[hazy venture]

LMAO

[sudden sinew]

ah yes

[drowsy cipher]

is this opposite world?

[hazy venture]

untrue UwU

[sudden sinew]

support utility

[sudden sinew]

no

[proven sundial]

Wait we need to filter our convo

[sudden sinew]

you got software/discover app for linux drivers and firmwares

[hazy venture]

huh

nah

doesn't say we have to respect channel name dw UwU

in other channels it does, but on certain one's no

[sudden sinew]

true....

[drowsy cipher]

ohh woe is me you tried to compile me with musl but i require glibc father, my cheddar is melting

[hazy venture]

someone needs help rn?

about tech

[proven sundial]

Nah mod just messaged me

[drowsy cipher]

yes, see here. crashes

[hazy venture]

wat

a mod messaged YOU

[drowsy cipher]

bro is hearing voices

[hazy venture]

priviledged.

tssk

TOY?

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

LOL

[proven sundial]

I will leave before i get kicked

[hazy venture]

bro why

[sudden sinew]

true

[hazy venture]

it's not even your fault why would you get kicked 😭

but oki

[sudden sinew]

fault the mods you'll see consquences

[hazy venture]

language barriers

[dusk furnace]

Oh, ok lol

then it's always one of the following error:

• IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
• ATTEMPTED_WRITE_TO_READONLY_MEMORY
• SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
• CACHE_MANAGER

like something that want to read a part of the kernel / os that can't read and everything freeze (but i don't know what or why)

[sudden sinew]

who got? I stated clearly if you fault someone

[hazy venture]

me

what is faulting someone

:(

what dat mean

[sudden sinew]

....
we need your specs.

[golden zenith]

sound like cpu issue 🙃

[sudden sinew]

giving someone the fault

[hazy venture]

ngl IRQL thingy seems common.. weird

[sudden sinew]

board issu--

[golden zenith]

oh well, need a deeper inspection

[drowsy cipher]

i have mostly encountered IRQL with faulty ram honestly

[hazy venture]

i don't understand the link between me saying that and you saying that i'll see the consequences

[dusk furnace]

how? as i don't have built it myself lol

[hazy venture]

most likely overclocked too much??

[golden zenith]

[hazy venture]

bios reset can fix

extreme mesures-

[drowsy cipher]

start menu -> run -> dxdiag

[hazy venture]

bro mine said it detected errors when i last started it-

[drowsy cipher]

wumao

[hazy venture]

uhm okay, a bit far stretched

pov the mod looking at this convo:

[sudden sinew]

true

[hazy venture]

not sure if you deleted it yourself

or if a mod deleted your message

[sudden sinew]

I deleted

[hazy venture]

oh oki

[sudden sinew]

for my sake

[hazy venture]

yk they have logs right-

aww okie

[sudden sinew]

better than leaving here

[golden zenith]

i mean if mods are reading this that okay

[dusk furnace]

AMD Ryzen 5 7500f 6-core
16GB RAM
GeForce 5060 rtx

[hazy venture]

yeah, they would've most likely kicked someone already

[golden zenith]

meanwhile me just shoot this to them

[hazy venture]

lmao true

[sudden sinew]

[drowsy cipher]

oh that ram is definitely cutting it close

[hazy venture]

they could've just interrupted us if what we talked about is wrong

[golden zenith]

anyway back to trobleshooting

[hazy venture]

i'm sure it's not the issue tho

16gb is fine :3

[dusk furnace]

i know, i need to upgrade it but at this point i don't trust the guy who build the pc anymore...

[drowsy cipher]

yeah but its definitely the lower bound

[hazy venture]

just takes some on the storage..

[sudden sinew]

the "with your game" means it must be game relates

[sudden sinew]

balling genshin is also OK

[hazy venture]

yeah! but i don't personnally thing it would cause bsod's..

[sudden sinew]

bcz it's literally "Games"

[golden zenith]

the whole world is a game if you think about it, a realistic game

[hazy venture]

ANYWAY BACK TO TROUBLESHOOT GUYS

[drowsy cipher]

it sohuldnt, unless its faulty

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

imagine the guy has 1 stick out of 4 slots

[dusk furnace]

no no, it's two ahah

[drowsy cipher]

the cpu and gpu are perfectly fine, but the ram is comparatively small dimensioned for how high spec the other parts are

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

okie lol dw it's a joke

[dusk furnace]

8gb per stick ofc

[hazy venture]

might want to check ram speeds then

on cpu-z or something

(idk just sayin')

[golden zenith]

what brand is your RAM sticks?

[hazy venture]

just install cpu-z and check memory and SPD tab 😭

[dusk furnace]

xpg

[hazy venture]

also what does shared memory on gpu means

[drowsy cipher]

checking the ram speed is an idea. whats your nvidia driver version? updated lately?

[hazy venture]

oh.. uh.. mhm

[summer pagoda]

means it pulls from system ram

[sudden sinew]

ram for extra vram

[drowsy cipher]

oof we need to get XMP on this stat

[hazy venture]

wowo golden!! technicians goo!

[dusk furnace]

yep, latest update 26 january

[sudden sinew]

true, 1.2V is uhhh

[summer pagoda]

CL48 damn

[sudden sinew]

dayum

[drowsy cipher]

ddr5 shouldnt be running 2.6k unless xmp isnt on

[hazy venture]

DAYUM WTF

[golden zenith]

EXPO/XMP enabled?

[dusk furnace]

dunno, sorry... how can i check it ?

[hazy venture]

THATS SODDIM RAM TIMING LEVEL

[sudden sinew]

udimm*

[hazy venture]

it's not, look at timings

look at memory and then SPD profiles

[hazy venture]

i meant soddim but ok..

[drowsy cipher]

I think we might be on the same version then, and I can confirm that one runs perfectly stable for me

[hazy venture]

my laptop ram is 5600 cl46, SODDIM

[drowsy cipher]

soddim sounds like a british curseword

[summer pagoda]

why do laptops get such shit ram

[hazy venture]

weird how the ram can be faulty at the jedec profile..

[hazy venture]

IDK MAN

LESS.. PINS?

[sudden sinew]

sodimm*

[hazy venture]

oh common wifey 😭

[dusk furnace]

pretty sure isn't a driver problem...

[sudden sinew]

soddim

[hazy venture]

shut uppp 😭

[golden zenith]

why the mem freq. a bit weird

[hazy venture]

doesn't seem to be overclocked, it's weird

[sudden sinew]

[hazy venture]

WAIT

hold on a second

[golden zenith]

normally the base should be 4800mhz

give or take

[hazy venture]

those frequencies and timings are not factory

[dusk furnace]

i don't think it is, i hope it isn't lol

[drowsy cipher]

borked xmp profile?

[hazy venture]

expo is 2800 CL46???

and this guy has 2600 CL42

[pallid owl]

Prob 5200mt. min would be 4800 orherwise

[sudden sinew]

jedec has 5600 too

[dusk furnace]

The precise model of the ram is adata ram dimm xpg lancer 16gb kit 5600mhz ddr5, dunno if this can help

[hazy venture]

seems to be NOT factory

looking at those profiles at least

[dusk furnace]

uh

[hazy venture]

based on my own point of view ofc

[golden zenith]

seem like you got to go into UEFI

[dusk furnace]

ouch

[drowsy cipher]

yeah i think checking the uefi is the best course of action

[hazy venture]

factory is 2800 at CL46

or expo idk

[dusk furnace]

ok, trying with uefi then

[hazy venture]

yeah

check ram speed and stuff

[pallid owl]

Yeah task manager shows ram speed

[hazy venture]

might just wanna check it to expo

[proven sundial]

Xmp is 5600 Mt/s and cl 46 timings

[hazy venture]

you mean expo

[proven sundial]

Same thing

[hazy venture]

yeah hm

but they have 5400 CL42 profiled rn

seems weird (not that it's weird but cuz it might be the cause of those bsod)

tho they don't get MEMORY_MANAGEMENT error codes....

[dusk furnace]

So i need to put expo here?

[hazy venture]

yes

[proven sundial]

Yeah switch the memory to expo

[dusk furnace]

Ok, trying reboot now

[proven sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/konosuba-explosion-anime-gif-23322221

[hazy venture]

why doesn't the multiplier range updates? hmm

[golden zenith]

well irql not less or equal error is 90% memory error... the other 10% is other issue

[dusk furnace]

now it's like this

[pallid owl]

Also don't be scared when changing ram settings takes a while to boot. Ddr5 can take like 5-10mins for ram training

[hazy venture]

good!

now test playing the game or whatever was the issue

[dusk furnace]

not so much here, more like 1 min lol

[proven sundial]

Looks normal now

[hazy venture]

bro i tried once to lower my timings.. guess what.. three times no boot and then poof, bios reset

lol

[pallid owl]

Yeah depends on which settings and mobo/ram. I always give it 20mins before I panic

[proven sundial]

Get to my level 7200 mt/s cl 28

[hazy venture]

also if you enable CMR your ram will most likely not train

[hazy venture]

😭

my ram is 6000 CL36 expo

[dusk furnace]

btw don't know if it's related or not but when i get the error the program is always this one ntoskrnl.exe+4fbb10

[hazy venture]

i can't go that low cmon

[hazy venture]

faulty memory most likely, yeah

[hazy venture]

...

[dusk furnace]

oh, so need to change them ?

[hazy venture]

yeah, help me get that 7200 CL28 lol

[hazy venture]

uhh i meant like, overclocked or unstable, sorry

mb

[proven sundial]

Amd cpu's mostly give up at 6400 mhz

[hazy venture]

you have intel?

tssk

[proven sundial]

Nah threadripper

Hedt

[hazy venture]

LOL

ok

why tf do you have a threadripper in a gaming pc

[proven sundial]

For work purposes

[hazy venture]

making blender or more things?

[proven sundial]

Adaptive machine learning and live server corrections also for light compute

[hazy venture]

oh okie that's cool.. that's cool..

what gpu do you have with that? ^^

[golden zenith]

iirc one of them is 7900xtx

cant remember the 2nd

[hazy venture]

Hmm

[proven sundial]

The other one is a wx 9700

[hazy venture]

Damn

[proven sundial]

Pretty much a amped 9070 xt

[hazy venture]

That's nice

[proven sundial]

Yeah but problem is

Conflicting drivers

On windows

So i just use professional drivers for both

[short ridge]

i just had a very unique expirience

that made me unable to sleep

[proven sundial]

Do tell

[pallid owl]

Try installing driver for 1 GPU. And then disabling it in device manager and install drivers for the second maybe? That's what I had to do for my 6800/Vega 64 build

[proven sundial]

Nah never works

Simply put enterprise gpu and consumer gpu

So professional drivers will work on both

[pallid owl]

Yeah if the professional ones work fine for games then should be good.

My 6800/Vega 64 system would use default windows display driver if I didn't do that whole process. Which would make it unusable for me(dedicated lossless card)

[proven sundial]

Yeah a tricky combo on that one

[short ridge]

i cant really say it here without getting banned...

[proven sundial]

Uhhh

K

[short ridge]

yeah

better if i keep it to myself

[proven sundial]

You do that

https://tenor.com/view/kasane-teto-teto-teto-kasane-mcdonalds-teto-mcdonalds-gif-17706834410401941960

[short ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-gun-kermit-gun-gif-16355306064126846866

[pallid owl]

Dude was deep into the originium powder

[hazy venture]

please tell me DM, my birb :3

[proven sundial]

I don't need to know

[hazy venture]

i'm asking him

:p

[proven sundial]

Of course

[hazy venture]

so uhh.. nobody has any tech issues rn

hmm

[proven sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/pinguim-fofo-gif-10217631483581146007

[hazy venture]

we don't even know if it fixed the guy bsod

[hazy venture]

https://tenor.com/view/hamster-do-a-back-flip-gif-15498679784377498556

[proven sundial]

He just disappeared

Like my dad

Gone to get the milk

[hazy venture]

WHAT

[proven sundial]

Anyway

We'll see if he responds

[drowsy cipher]

busy playing now hehe

[hazy venture]

well, that's a good start

no crashes yet ig

[short ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/apsgifs-waiting-patiently-waiting-patiently-emoji-patiently-waiting-waiting-gif-2677339561535435308

[proven sundial]

I can go to sleep in peace then

[hazy venture]

bro yes you don't wanna know what he just said to me

[proven sundial]

Yeah thought so lol my daughters are all sleeping next to their mom

[hazy venture]

wait so for real wdym by daughters?

actual children?

[proven sundial]

I have 4

[hazy venture]

lmaoo

[proven sundial]

But yeah i can go sleep in my big ass sofa

[hazy venture]

lol

are you perhaps like 38 or something

[proven sundial]

Nope 28

[hazy venture]

jeez

[proven sundial]

And she wants 1 more

[hazy venture]

okay

LOL

luck girl

[proven sundial]

Man needs time to game

[hazy venture]

lmao

[proven sundial]

[hazy venture]

[short ridge]

a daughter or a son

[proven sundial]

Anyway sleepwell take care and stay healthy

[hazy venture]

bro has 4 DAUGHTERS?

[hazy venture]

goodnight!! sleep well to you too and y'all in the house

[short ridge]

bros birth year starts with 19, ancient

dinosaur age

[hazy venture]

wat

oh lol

nvm i'm just dumb

i have headache UwU

[short ridge]

yeah

[hazy venture]

[short ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/seriously-seriously-cat-cat-really-cat-really-look-cat-look-gif-9827665958015475464

[hazy venture]

bro don't forget i know things

😒

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/883263177553502209/1302667504019308624/d6793f75f8f4391ab7a96c6d33e06da6.gif

funny asf tho

[short ridge]

what things

[hazy venture]

you just told me about

UwU

[vagrant wedge]

Is it possible to change the brightness in settings?

[hazy venture]

if it's not in the settings then you probably can't in game, most likely need to brighten up your monitor or similar

[cobalt bison]

How do we play Endfield without mouse?

[toxic atlas]

Controller I guess

[cobalt bison]

Is it not possible to use the arrow keys as camera control like in mouse?

[fluid geyser]

Anyone know how to fix this?

[cobalt bison]

I was able to do that with War Thunder

[toxic atlas]

You can do it from Windows with the numpad, though you'd need some special software if you want specifically the arrow keys

[fluid geyser]

It’s been like this for an hour

[toxic atlas]

Can't imagine it'll feel good to play like that though

[toxic atlas]

#tech-support message

Try this

[cobalt bison]

Why does the game keep saying "Can't set this button to this function"

[toxic atlas]

Because the in-game control mapping is absolute ass

[cobalt bison]

It would be much much easier if they allow us to set camera turn to button keys

[fluid geyser]

Ai

[toxic atlas]

...?

[fluid geyser]

It means alright

[toxic atlas]

It's really late on my side and thought you just called my response AI lol

Need to catch some sleep

[cobalt bison]

It should be Aight not Ai

@toxic atlas so uhh

I can set 6 as button for basic attack

But nod Num Pad 6

Actually I can't set anything in the numpad as a button at all

[toxic atlas]

Maybe can't set it with numpad lock off?

[cobalt bison]

I tried with both on and off

[grizzled cobalt]

I need big, help, my main story is stuck and doesn't advance.... 😭

[toxic atlas]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-mouse-keys-to-move-the-mouse-pointer-9e0c72c8-b882-7918-8e7b-391fd62adf33
There's this obscure windows feature

[cobalt bison]

Try to unstuck

[grizzled cobalt]

In Wuling is asking me to construct a Fluid Supply Unit, but I already did several times, and is not completing the task...

[toxic atlas]

Do you happen to have a fluid reservoir in between the pump and the forge?

I assume you're at the main story mission regarding xyranite production with the sky forge

[cobalt bison]

This shit is garbage

GTA Vice City had more responsible arrow key controls that this

Wtf is windows doing

[fluid geyser]

Sadly this DIDNT work

Ima restart my laptop

[cobalt bison]

It's insane we still have to use AutoHotkey just to get a function we already had 20 years ago

Windows just keep devolving

[toxic atlas]

Honestly, it's windows

Also AHK might be detected as macro software by anticheat
Proceed with caution

[cobalt bison]

What the hell even does anticheat do at this point

I have...mixed feelings about the "anticheat" War Thunder used

Man, all I wanted to do is to set arrows keys to move the camera, and use Numpad 0 as Left Click, and Right Shift as Right Click

[cobalt bison]

I can't even do that

[toxic atlas]

Honestly ACE is trash, though can't do much about it by ourselves
Anticheat logic should be server-sided as everything is already sent to the server, including movement
Client should be freed from it

[cobalt bison]

@toxic atlas the windows numpad mouse is NOT affecting the game

I mean it does move the mouse cursor of the game, but not the camera/view itself

[toxic atlas]

Huh

[cobalt bison]

So eh

Gotta buy a new mouse

@toxic atlas OH

I found out something

Somehow my numpad 0 is doing continuous basic attack

Cancelled by the delete button beside it

Damn

You know what I feel like?

I feel like I'm controlling a gundam

[toxic atlas]

Lmao

[cobalt bison]

@toxic atlas lol my new setup doesn't bother my gameplay as much as I expected

[fast frost]

my computer completely closes arknights and it never use to do that idk if its because of an update but now my computer cant run it for more then 5 minutes

[sleek matrix]

Guys, I tried moving my folder cause i was cleaning some space for a new game and i was able to relocate and do an integrity file check but now everytime i launch it it just open a blank screen and nothing is really loading, anyone have a solution?

[vagrant vortex]

why is my game takes so long for the loading screen to finish? I need like 1 or sometimes 2 mins just to wait for the loading screen

[golden zenith]

which platform are you on & is your game located in a hdd or ssd?

[golden zenith]

that a new issue... did you move it to a hdd or ssd?

[golden zenith]

game hard crashes.... what platform are you using that crashing?

im busy a bit so whoever can help out please send help, except Max... he sleeping

[unreal lotus]

Maybe the launcher is pointed to the specific file path, so if it's moved it tries to launch from wrong folder. (the old location)
Just a guess though. Dunno if the launcher has a setting for that.

[golden zenith]

you can always change the file path through the launcher, so it not that unless some Windows shenanigan happen

[fast frost]

i open it from the launcher i wasnt doing it before i might just have to clear my computer cause my entire computers been tweaking

[golden zenith]

i assuming you on windows 11 & trying to break it.... what your gpu driver version?

[sleek matrix]

i didnt move it through storage systems, i just put in in a new folder, then changed the game directory to it, and now it doesnt work

[golden zenith]

well, this is new....

does it happen on other games?

[sleek matrix]

not really

steam games and hyv games run as usual

[golden zenith]

a few things you can try, you can go through in order

• try restarting (not shutdown) your system
• Set Endfield.exe to run as admin
• if those 2 doesn't work, might have to reinstall the game

[sleek matrix]

already did the first two, im forced to do the third

[golden zenith]

if you going to reinstall, make sure you clear the cache for the game as well

Ban

Where the Mods.... They Slacking

[sleek matrix]

what do you mean?, i just uninstalled it and then started immideately redownloading it

how do you do that

[golden zenith]

ahh...

give me a while, need to dig through the archive

[golden zenith]

Here
#tech-support message

[sleek matrix]

do i have to restart the download or just continue where i started?

[golden zenith]

best to restart the download in case

[fleet hedge]

So I thought I fixed this, but whenever I open Endfield it makes my screen go black, my laptop is on but the screen is black

[golden zenith]

what other fixes have you tried?

[fleet hedge]

Can't think of a lot tbh

My main fix last time was switching the game from using my dedicated GPU instead of integrated

But nothing's changed in that regard

[vagrant vortex]

It's on my disk D, but I only use an SSD for my pc

[golden zenith]

what your gpu driver version?

[fleet hedge]

Oh nvm, I guess I fixed it somehow

[golden zenith]

hmmm.... try restarting(not shutdown) your system first, lmk if it work

[vagrant vortex]

does anyone know how to fix the long loading screen, my disk C doesnt have enough storage so I have to put it in my disk D, but all of them should be fine cause it's an SSD

[vagrant vortex]

it always happen whenever I play, not just this time

[golden zenith]

alright, any issues can come back here. enjoy your game

[fleet hedge]

Thank you 🙂‍↕️🙏

[golden zenith]

can you ss your drives free spaces size?

[vagrant vortex]

I only have 45GB of storage left on my C driver, I think I deleted everything that I can\

[golden zenith]

that not a lot still... hmmm

[vagrant vortex]

after checking all of my apps and downloaded files and deleted what I don't need, I have 67GB now, I dont know if that's enough

[golden zenith]

well, that depends on the ssd spec, each ssd has a different ratio....

[vagrant vortex]

I'll try to download the game into a different driver now, let's hope it works this time

[golden zenith]

you can try that first & see how it goes

i guess all the other Tech-ministrator just busy or sleeping

[sudden sinew]

https://youtube.com/shorts/IuploJ_bnpc

[sudden sinew]

got bit time rn

[golden zenith]

ah yes, nvidia going to linux... with the Not Game Ready Driver

[sudden sinew]

how's gamble btw

[golden zenith]

not sure, just roll only

had like deal like 4 customers

[sudden sinew]

(a disk can contain multiple "partitions", which explains why there's drive D: too)

Also hi there! Do you happen to know which drive you are using on?

[sudden sinew]

the system requirements need you 70GB btw

[muted storm]

I'm stuck at releasing resource, is this corrupted files?

[sudden sinew]

mayhaps, may I know on which drive you are running the game on please?

[golden zenith]

ahh, 0% releasing resources

[rancid loom]

did you already try running it as Administrator?

if so and the issue still persists

[golden zenith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/956086683571462154/1476598228584497284/Screenshot_2026-02-03-09-39-27-81_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.jpg?ex=69a25d83&is=69a10c03&hm=fd1bf8a902eecfc0d11e23316c2f8574bebc65a7639571dae1788611273dd347

[rancid loom]

Go to this directory

C:\Program Files\GRYPHLINK\games\EndField Game\Endfield_Data\Persistent abd dekete the HGDownload folder

Please exit the game before doing so @muted storm

[rancid loom]

Credits to Xomori

[steel swift]

Xomori really became a tech lead in this channel

[vagrant vortex]

Yes drive D, and I check the task manager, turns out my drive D is an HDD, not ssd like my C. I’m relocating a lot of the unimportant files to drive D so that I can have enough space to actually put this game in an ssd

[golden zenith]

i was right...

it was hdd

oh well...

[steel swift]

Just use SSD

-Xomori

[rancid loom]

more like most of us

we really suggest SSD, not HDD especially in this day and age

[steel swift]

HDD still cheaper for archive tho

[rancid loom]

true but if you're using it for gaming then no can do

[muted storm]

ok so it's corrupted update i suppose? Ty for help btw

[rancid loom]

nah it's more that the game is dumb imo

but anyways enjoy

How's life btw @golden zenith ?

[golden zenith]

Alive.... unfortunately

[steel swift]

If you have any issue, blame the game first

[sudden sinew]

sometimes you have to proove one or in an another way

just uhhh

don't be like this
https://youtu.be/RgLQCfypDLk

[rancid loom]

[golden zenith]

I guess it time that any issue, we just send the Xomori Solution™

It super effective that way

[toxic atlas]

The usual windows permissions shenanigans

[golden zenith]

let see... having issues with game

• Game Unoptimized
• Most people on Windows
• Nvidia Screwed up on drivers
• Some phone screwing with Memory
• some RU unable to connect to the server
  what else is new

[proven sundial]

Why is my name mentioned so much

I got tagged 11 times

Over the whole server

Like today

[golden zenith]

11 times?, there was like 5

[proven sundial]

Yeah in off topic and theorycrafting

Weird

[sly terrace]

high temp cpu with low use percentage

[proven sundial]

Also the legacy controller driver fixed 3 people's issue with the rumble

[golden zenith]

defuq, i know Max in off-topic tag your name b4... but theorycrafting as well???

[proven sundial]

Idk what is going on with that 😂

Also look

Strawberry coffee

I'm obsessed now

[short ridge]

that aint no coffee anymore bro

thats a dessert

[toxic atlas]

Hey I only did it once

[proven sundial]

You want one ?

I am making 3 of them

[tall acorn]

in america it'd be considered breakfast

[short ridge]

sure toss it over

[proven sundial]

Location ?

[short ridge]

My home, duh

[proven sundial]

I knew it i can't mine there

[tall acorn]

☝️ latest driver rollout is a great example of this

recent versions aren't exactly the most stable either

[proven sundial]

Well for me i tend to update drivers every 3 months or so on windows

But those are the professional drivers

On amd

[toxic atlas]

Set up the GP to not get fucked by autoupdate?

[proven sundial]

I just disable most of windows update and all the irrelevant stuff

Only essential updates

I just wish i could get rid of windows

[midnight siren]

can ask for advise? Flydigi BS2 Pro Laptop Cooling Pad or llano V12 Ultra cooling pad for Lenovo LOQ 15AHP10 (15'6)

[short ridge]

whats keeping you on there lol

[proven sundial]

Fusion compute

[proven sundial]

Let me have a look

[midnight siren]

don't have it physically with me

[proven sundial]

No worries i know that

[short ridge]

cant you run this with wine/lutris

on linux

[proven sundial]

No

Dx9

And translation layer does not work

[short ridge]

F

[proven sundial]

I would go with the llano V12 it seems to perform better overall

[tall acorn]

haven't heard of the other one, but there should be more recent llano cooling pads

i'd do some research to figure out which cooling pad you need and is confirmed by owners to work the best

they make quite the difference for laptop cooling when used properly

[midnight siren]

uh, should I ask the laptop retailers or the cooling pad retailers ?

[midnight siren]

i figure the bs2 pro would be better bcuz it has a higher fan speed

[tall acorn]

neither, you should look at user reviews and the specifications of the cooling pads

is confirmed by owners to work the best

fan speed isn't the only thing that matters, far from it actually

fan quality, fan size, seal quality, all make a difference in how well the cooling pad actually interacts with the laptop

going for a cooling pad with the highest fan speed is how you get marketed into buying something that's barely effective, but it has a high fan speed

[tall acorn]

each of these matter alongside the fan speed

[proven sundial]

And of course cfm throughput

[proven sundial]

Read what zencrox said ✓

[midnight siren]

@tall acorn @proven sundial this would be the first cooling pad I buy, any advise on how to maintain it? I only know about the dust cleaning

[proven sundial]

A small air duster for pc's help

I do that to quickly clear dust from my desktop

And my fans

[midnight siren]

the fans will eventually need to be replaced right?

[proven sundial]

It will take a while for fans to degrade

Besides you will hear it when they degrade

[midnight siren]

oh yeah, can I use a powerbank with 66w to power it? or just power via laptop?

[tall acorn]

i haven't heard of laptop cooling pad fans needing replacing, unless the pad itself is really old and just stops working

[tall acorn]

i'd power it from an external source aside from your laptop, as pulling more energy from your laptop will slightly increase thermals, which is ironically what you're trying to lower when using a laptop cooling pad

but if it's more convenient just power it from your laptop

the difference is most likely negligible

[midnight siren]

cool

@tall acorn @proven sundial both of u, thx for the help

[proven sundial]

All good take care as always

@toxic atlas do you know if Metal Api apss work on linux ?

[toxic atlas]

Like, for running Mac-native apps on Linux?

[proven sundial]

Yep

Since fusion compute has a Metal version now

Huawei told me

[toxic atlas]

That shit's Darwin-specific afaik

[proven sundial]

Lol well

[short ridge]

i have been reading political crap for the past 3 days in hsr

tiktok is flooded by politics and even hsr now has politics in it

[proven sundial]

Get off social media

Do your own shit

[toxic atlas]

Also why in the hell fusioncompute

That shit's fucking disgusting

[proven sundial]

Old servers

[toxic atlas]

It works with Nova if you're willing to set up an OpenStack

[proven sundial]

Fuck it let's give it a go

I want to just get rid of windows

Taking space for no reason

[short ridge]

ah yall starting with the ancient language again, ima come back here later

[proven sundial]

You're good no reason to go

[short ridge]

i am a curious guy by nature, i will ask 3972653829 questions if something interests me, so i can be quite annoying

[tough wigeon]

Can I safely update the nvidia dlss files on Endfield or will this risk a false positive on any anticheat systems that Endfield has on PC?

[proven sundial]

In my experience changing any files will trigger the klac

Since well it checks for the vanilla state so to speak

Besides you can do dlss changes driver sided