theorycrafting

[willow blade]

I mean from p4

[sterile moat]

it ranges wildly based on enemy res

[bronze plume]

p4 is about a 30% increase

it also like holo said depends on the enemy

[willow blade]

K

[sterile moat]

anywhere from 15% gain to 200% depending

[willow blade]

200%wut?

[sterile moat]

assuming we get some 95 arts S tier resistance boss in the future

[bronze plume]

id be surprised if we dont get res shred ops by then as well

[dry kindle]

[bronze plume]

making her p5 less valuable

[dry kindle]

ATP were pulling out the perma corro

[bronze plume]

when a dps has res shred base kit

we are getting into the cooked territory

[outer ermine]

nature dps trust

[bronze plume]

im beggin

[willow blade]

Hope we get a near global support with shred base kit first

[dry kindle]

Lzy

[outer ermine]

🤝

[sterile moat]

i am scared for all the ops after zfy now

whats the next powercreep

[bronze plume]

as much as i like the idea of global supports

god its ass when 90% of team comps ride or die on them

better then every dps needing 1 dedicated support tho i guess

[warped sorrel]

tomorrow

Gilb pwc soon

[willow blade]

Res shred might make 1 team toooo op if not global

[bronze plume]

well yeah

thats kinda

how gachas go

normally

[bronze plume]

enemies actually having enuf health to make zfy worth it

[willow blade]

Like introduce a global shredder first then later introduce more dedicated shredders that are better for specific teams

[bronze plume]

thats the powercreep

we powercreep the enemies in turn making zfy better

[sterile moat]

try solo zfy

def have enough hp

[bronze plume]

im not a fan of wasting my time

i dont like zfy so i dont use her

if im ever to use my electric team i use avy

[sterile moat]

already wasting time by playing a gacha

[bronze plume]

thats

the point of any video game then

[sterile moat]

ngl zfy most op mechanics is actually how freely she is able to move around while auto attacking / using a skill

[bronze plume]

i play the gacha to enjoy what HG brings even if at times its shoddy

i dont enjoy zfy as a character

[grand lagoon]

next powercrept is, no more ult form duration

but instead 1 instant single big number nuke damage

[bronze plume]

0 reason for me to play her let alone for 0 reason do anything solo with her for 0 gain

[bronze plume]

tbf

how is that a powercreep

unless you are getting that ult off cooldown

the x character solo thing

is the thing im making the point of being a waste of time

[grand lagoon]

ult form duration sometime isnt enough for multiple phase or force to wait for stuff and u waste ult duration

yea

[bronze plume]

me when my sword stacks disappear in the bosses phase transition

[grand lagoon]

like ruan yi

u are force to play soccer game

[bronze plume]

no like

it resets

the stacks

sigh...

[bronze plume]

its more like pacman

except the ghosts arent chasing you but instead are explosives layed around

[grand lagoon]

but yea, laev, zf, ult duration are wasted on that kind of gimmicks

[bronze plume]

i like to say to myself whenever im fighting ruan yi in the start of the 2nd phase just going WAKA WAKA WAKA WAKA

[bronze plume]

gotta have some kinda downside tbf

[grand lagoon]

like tbh,endmin instant nuke skill and ult is quite simple strong to the point

[bronze plume]

more overall dmg but has chance to be wasted

[grand lagoon]

so next OP shit will be similar and push through that number

[bronze plume]

is what ults with dmg duration compared to ones like rossi should be

[grand lagoon]

yea, but we are talkin powercrept

[bronze plume]

obviously down the road when we get ults that are instant and do as much dmg as zfy in 1 hit

will have someone who does 4x that dmg but with a duration to the ult

[grand lagoon]

that usually have MORE positive than everyone has before

[bronze plume]

clearly they just

silverash alter it

everybody in the team does big dmg

[grand lagoon]

[sterile moat]

lava ult duration is indeed sad

[grand lagoon]

this will never happen

unless

they implement module method

[sterile moat]

but fang yi ult already lasts forever

[peak void]

has anyone done sig vs bp %calcs on fangyi

[bronze plume]

^

[grand lagoon]

that wont happen in first 4years of endfield

kekkkk

[bronze plume]

at this pace defo not

[warped sorrel]

20% i think

[peak void]

whered u get that

[bronze plume]

~15% p5 to p0 close enuf

[bronze plume]

prydwen

its like

there one good character review

they dont update anything

[peak void]

oh wow lol

[peak void]

is this p0 vs p0

[bronze plume]

hers is one of the lowest % difference p5 to p0 for limited characters on their sig vs bp

[willow blade]

zfy dash or pog dash for exploration?

[bronze plume]

but her own pots compensate that

[bronze plume]

zfy is a lil bit faster

just use her ult ez

[willow blade]

cool

[willow blade]

ya LMAO

[peak void]

ngl im just looking for smth to convince me to pull her sig

[sterile moat]

safe to say its betwen 15 ~ 20% difference for p0 sig vs p5 bp weap

[bronze plume]

out of all the sigs in this game currently

its the worst to get

[peak void]

yeesh

[bronze plume]

however if you want to pull it

theres literally nothing stopping you

well besides the garbo way the arsenal tickets worse

[peak void]

Poverty will stop me

[bronze plume]

give me back the cbt1 gamemode

[peak void]

gg

[warped sorrel]

or is it

[sterile moat]

nah the worst is like ember or pog signature weap

[bronze plume]

if by 2.0 laev you mean has a duration to there ult that increases there dmg

then sure

[bronze plume]

yeah because literally any non whale is pulling one of the standard characters sigs

and dont tell me last rite

[sterile moat]

ardelia

[bronze plume]

cryo mains dont exist

[bronze plume]

me when its free

[sterile moat]

speed runners

[bronze plume]

yes im sure

there are speedrunners that are f2p

[sterile moat]

theres a p0 speed run category

[bronze plume]

so they get a p5 and a p0

ez

ok but

if theres a p0 category

they still wouldnt pull it

because you get the first one free

the standard banner char sigs

arent even being talked about here in the first place

this is nothingbuger

[sterile moat]

god knows, xaihi dreamy is a thing

[bronze plume]

well no

its good

[grand lagoon]

dw gais, one day, there are operators who will utilize laev sig or zfy sig

[bronze plume]

at p0 getting zfy weapon is still a overall more increase then getting her p1 and staying at p5 bp

its a roughly ~10% increase on p1 and ~15% on sig depending on team comps and enemies yada yada

[grand lagoon]

yea the main boss is still the scarce arsenal ticket

[sterile moat]

i still dont get how its the worst sig pull when the others are worst like artzy

[grand lagoon]

no its good, its just if you think of the arsenal value that is really hard to get (for enough pull) , its really bad that you have to absolutely choose

[sterile moat]

even laev one is pretty bad too

[bronze plume]

fine its top 3 worst are you happy

[sterile moat]

its not even top 3 lmao

15% gap is huge

[bronze plume]

sigh...

[sterile moat]

lupine is 13% gap

[grand lagoon]

I'll have next character without sig

*cope

kekk

[bronze plume]

just get lucky big brain

[grand lagoon]

[grand lagoon]

pls no

[bronze plume]

tbf the new boss is way to easy

[grand lagoon]

pls never gamble on arsenal, its worst of the worst shit

[bronze plume]

but 4%

[grand lagoon]

only gamble when you have ENOUGH

[sterile moat]

if you look at all the banner limiteds so far, zfy sig has the biggest gap and the best to pull lmao in terms of % gained

[bronze plume]

theres a difference between like 3 1/2 minutes

and 1 gang

[grand lagoon]

or u know its within your resource limit

[sterile moat]

not even anywhere close to the worst

[bronze plume]

K

[bronze plume]

just

rob a bank big brain

[grand lagoon]

right

[bronze plume]

its only illegal if you get caught

[craggy pond]

wdym worst, it's literally the most impactful sig out of all the limited sigs yet

if any then it couldn't be further from worst

[sterile moat]

the zfy hate bias

[bronze plume]

im very sorry i was wrong anyway

i mean why wouldnt she be

[craggy pond]

it makes more sense to call it best let alone worst

[bronze plume]

you got 10 whole minutes brotha

[warped sorrel]

im not going for her sig
20% is a fraud

[bronze plume]

what is this genshin? 50% or bust

[craggy pond]

if 20% is a fraud then might as well not pull any sig

[sterile moat]

20% is more than laev p0 to p5 LOL, which is 17%

[craggy pond]

most sigs are 10% better than their bp alternatives on avg

that's why it's typically "fine" to use bp for the average player

[warped sorrel]

smh pwc

[grand lagoon]

ok so can i refund my forgeborn scathe?

[craggy pond]

fangyi is the first one where i'd genuinely advise to pull sig if you wanna pull her

because it feels like a waste of pulls otherwise

[bronze plume]

idk what that means

[warped sorrel]

me neither

[warped sorrel]

her with bp is more than enough

[craggy pond]

again, if that's fine then might as well not pull any sig

[dry kindle]

That just makes it easier

[bronze plume]

so is all limited tbf

[dry kindle]

I think

[craggy pond]

the point is made in relative to other sigs

not to the baseline of the bp alternative

[dry kindle]

Gilberta ult

Gilberta ult

[warped sorrel]

the point is im not falling for 20%

[craggy pond]

i always thought that's a garbage argument btw. What do you even consider "enough"

[dry kindle]

Just dodge

[sterile moat]

probably the more impactful sigs are gilberta, tangtang, rossi and zfy

[dry kindle]

Rossi sig dumb

[craggy pond]

"enough" as in clear the game with ease? Then you don't even need to pull limited units

[grand lagoon]

here is the catch, go consider sig when you have 15840 arsenal point.

never consider sig weapon if you have less than that. go for BP. done

[craggy pond]

free units with free weapons already did that

[daring dove]

Only at P0 at P5 it’s Rossi sig

[willow blade]

what the best version of zfy team? (i have built p5 perlica and arclight) what to use for last slot? i got p0 stanza gil, p5 aleash(needs building), akakuri p5, antel(needs building)

[craggy pond]

the whole point of pulling in this game up until this point is either personal preference or simply sweating for clear time

[sterile moat]

i wish p5 zfy sig was 37% gain too...

[dry kindle]

The world if zfy sig was line 3 atk

[craggy pond]

if you say "20% increase is garbage" then that means you're saying pulling sig in this game is meaningless as you can do everything with less

[warped sorrel]

The world if laevatain get pwc

[grand lagoon]

zfy 3 atk sequence during ult is insane

[warped sorrel]

why is bro making this political

[craggy pond]

"i'm gonna say random unrelated bs because that somehow makes my point stronger"

[warped sorrel]

sure buddy

[inland quarry]

Do we have numbers on zfy sig vs bp yet?

[grand lagoon]

[inland quarry]

Although bp isn't f2p yet, it'd be good to know

[sterile moat]

here we go again

its something like 15 to 18% gain over p5 bp

[grand lagoon]

it was discuss right above

[bronze plume]

as in you cant get to lvl 40 for it yet

[inland quarry]

You still cannot get it without buying paid bp yet

[grand lagoon]

yea and even then its only p0

[warped sorrel]

you can get it to P4 rn i think

[inland quarry]

Wow, that's less of a difference than I expected

[grand lagoon]

[inland quarry]

It looked a lot better than bp, but it's comparable to other dps sigs

[sterile moat]

bro... its the biggest difference out of all the sigs so far

[craggy pond]

it's a bigger difference than every other sigs make, just for reference

i think you're massively overestimating how much sigs improve on avg

[inland quarry]

By ~3%, yes

[craggy pond]

it's normally not this much

[craggy pond]

i mean, it's closer to by a whole 10% if we're comparing this to stuffs like navigator vs artzy

[inland quarry]

Artzy is one of the weakest dps sigs

[craggy pond]

...we have like 3 dps with a sig up until this point

[sterile moat]

laev yvonne rossi zfy so 4 i guess

[inland quarry]

Lae and lr are ~25%, tt main dps is >17%

[craggy pond]

surtr is NOWHERE NEAR 25%

[sterile moat]

not sure where u pulling this from, surtr is like 8~9% from p5 bp

[inland quarry]

Rossi arts is 26%

[sterile moat]

its 13%...

[craggy pond]

where are you pulling these stats from

[inland quarry]

I'm compareing p0 sig to p0 bp

Lae from iana, lr tt rossi from maygi

[craggy pond]

uh, then we have a 30%+ for fangyi

btw

[inland quarry]

The above image says 27.3% for p0 sig vs p0 bp

Personal, which is what I used for other numbers except tt, which is team bc maygi didn't show personal

[craggy pond]

percentage doesn't work that way, if we're using bp as a baseline then it's a 30%+ increase

[inland quarry]

I'm aware, I'm using raw percentage for comparision

The delta is 27.3%

[craggy pond]

plus i think it's an inherent flawed comparison

[inland quarry]

Baseline in all comparisons is p0 sig

[craggy pond]

there's a reason why the comparison is always made between p5 bp and p0 sig

because weapons can have a solid baseline but trash incrememnts

and the fact that p5 bp is acccessible to everyone

[inland quarry]

That's objectively untrue

[sterile moat]

lae p0 sig vs p0 bp is like 15% or so?

[inland quarry]

Bp pots for newer weps have low to zero availability for f2p

The crates are on the paid bp

[craggy pond]

idk why we're making this point when anyone has the ability to p5 any bp weapon by just playing for long enough

[inland quarry]

Iana says this

[dry kindle]

Just wait 5 bps and you can p5

[craggy pond]

f2p is by default a grindy path, saying that you can't immediately p5 a bp weap therefore it's not considered is just an objectively bad argument

[sterile moat]

so 19%~25% at best

[craggy pond]

if you're a f2p, it's already a given that you aren't just gonna grab a p0 bp and quit

[bronze plume]

tbf if a person is truly f2p is it realistic for them to go out of there way to fully p5 a bp weapon considering that would take what 5 patches worth if just using the upgrade material they get

[craggy pond]

it's not about going out of their way or not to me, if i'm a f2p, if i decide to grab a bp weap, then i'm definitely not leaving it at p0

because if i am gonna do that, then might as well just not grab it in the first place

as there are probably better free alternatives

[daring dove]

Ult gain Leavatain gets a lot better value out of sig than hot works, as you can pretty much have nearly permanent weapon buff uptime.

[dry kindle]

[sterile moat]

tldr, fang yi weap is still the best dps weap to pull vs bp out of all current dps lmao

[bronze plume]

is there a limited character outside stanza gilberta arguements where p0 any standard wep compared to bp wins in the majority of cases?

i guess wedge

[sterile moat]

hmm standard weaps...

theres always thermite i guess

[daring dove]

Yeah but it’s limited to exclusively her with no cross appeal. Rossi’s weapon is the most accessible weapon to pull & the best value over base. That said it’s held back a little by the battle pass alternative being actually good. Unlike Fangyi’s BP weapon which is truly terrible.

[bronze plume]

limited characters

i actually do wonder

what tf they will do for a limited vanguards bp wep

[craggy pond]

probably just better buffs

with hyperspecific trigger conditions

exclusive to the unit

[sterile moat]

flashback to og AK where 6* vgs were the best thing ever

[bronze plume]

bp weapons and there inability to be used on more then 1-2 characters will live on

[craggy pond]

well i mean we already have a taste of it with gilberta sig imo

unless they wanna make 6* vanguards closer to sub dps

[bronze plume]

myrtle still the goat tho

[craggy pond]

in which case we could always get stuffs like never rest

which then again thermite is probably just better

[compact bridge]

P0 sig is more easy to get than p5 vp for f2p tho

[daring dove]

I had more hopes for the battle pass weapons to be honest only decent one so far is GM. The others have all been pretty terrible, I was hoping they’d be more like the early Genshin BP weapons that were some of the best weapons in the game at the time.

I think devs need to step up their game on them a little.

[craggy pond]

not always

[sterile moat]

would love to see actually solid bp weap

[craggy pond]

if a f2p is completely out of arsenal tickets, accumulating enough tickets take probably just as long

[bronze plume]

tbf

if they keep reruns as often as what we have now (yes i know its only one)

if every like 2-4 patches for a character to rerun

thats like

[craggy pond]

basically, in the time it takes to gather enough tickets to pull a sig, they could probably p5 any bp weapon of their choice

[bronze plume]

same speed for the bp

assuming using the selection crate for the bp weapon as well and not a new one

[sterile moat]

i am so sad that i am 1 repute off p5

[wild rose]

I'd bet it'd be personal damage

DMG Boost for the wearer and that's it

[bronze plume]

yeah that sounds on par for the bp weps

[daring dove]

I think this first re-run is more an “o shit we’ve made Gilberta the centre of every comp” however there’s no way to get her currently response. Hidden as a general character banner as it’s too early to do an official rerun.

[inland quarry]

I think it's very realistic to only get p0 because burning future bp weps to pot one is costing a f2p p0 bp weps for future chars

[bronze plume]

id hope so

[outer ermine]

omg holo

[bronze plume]

it would be really funny if 1.3 just has a better universal support

[sterile moat]

?

[bronze plume]

and the gilberta rerun is just massive bait

[inland quarry]

F2p are likely to get p0 limited chars, which means more limited chars than higher pot bp weps

[wild rose]

I could see that happening

[outer ermine]

i just found the easiest iframe

[sterile moat]

[outer ermine]

let me test another ver

[craggy pond]

well, i wouldn't know what other f2ps think, i as an f2p, if given this as an option, would try to get p5 on the bp weaps i pick 10 out of 10 times

[compact bridge]

How long to get a p5 bp tho? Is it 3 patch or 6 patch?

[outer ermine]

okay it works 2 ways

[wild rose]

6

That's about 9 months on average

[compact bridge]

If it take 6 patch, getting p0 sig is 100% faster for f2p

[wild rose]

100%

[gritty olive]

no money 6
money 2

[outer ermine]

omg

[gritty olive]

[sterile moat]

tfw i cant even chase the record without p2 gilb

[inland quarry]

Dumping all your bp weps into pots means limited chars without bp or sig

[dry kindle]

Its an oh shit we have a zfy solo banner in a 49 day patch

[inland quarry]

You only get ~0.6 sig weps per limited char

[gritty olive]

the past selectors shouldnt give you new ones

[compact bridge]

Not really, thats assuming you got every limited

[inland quarry]

That's assuming avg sig luck and 0.8 limited per patch, again roughly avg luck

[bronze plume]

oh shit we have zfy in a 49 day patch QUICK slap a JO banner (arknights thing) with all the reconveners in it (arknights thing) thatll make the arknights players happy and in turn make the non ones happy

big brain

[gritty olive]

i havent used any lemme check rq

[dry kindle]

[warped sorrel]

atleast it free
i hate how it take while for f2p to get it

[dry kindle]

Should've put tt on the banner smh

[bronze plume]

bro shes still on zfy banner

[daring dove]

That as well, however I do think either Mifu or Arcane was supposed to fill in that second spot. But just got pushed back for whatever reason. But yeah one new character for 49 days isn’t good.

[craggy pond]

then at that point it's not even the same argument. Because we're comparing p5 bp with sig, and if we say getting sig is easier AND better, then you would always pick sig, what's even the point of grabbing bp. The caveat only comes because we could do sig on 1 unit and p5 bp on another

at least that's how i view it

[inland quarry]

More like p5 bp on one unit and sig on ~3

[dry kindle]

Mifu

[inland quarry]

That's how resource intensive p5 bp is for f2p

[dry kindle]

Lzy nowhere to be seen

[compact bridge]

More like you could sig on 2 or 3 char and 1 p5 bp lol

[gritty olive]

[craggy pond]

which is my point. Because it's possible to do that, it's better to seldom delegate all your resources into 1 bp

once you picked any of them

than doing p0 of each

when you can just pull sig

[inland quarry]

You are forgetting the 2 chars now without bp or sig

[craggy pond]

unless we're pulling every limited unit in existence

which is already unrealistic for f2p

[bronze plume]

tbf

this just makes sense

[inland quarry]

In the time to get p5 bp, you get around 4.8 limited chars. 2.9 get sigs, 1.9 get nothing

[bronze plume]

also why do you have a tt pot chilling

[gritty olive]

i dislike limited pots

and i got a double her while pulling madame zhuangfangui

[bronze plume]

oh hell nah

this WHALE absolute LEVIATHAN

hates pots

smh

biggest whale i know

[gritty olive]

she somehow snuck two times now
once on rossi, once on fangyi

[bronze plume]

give them to someone who wants her smh

[gritty olive]

somehow didnt notice the std selector and extra wp selector and all the cny thingies

[bronze plume]

i dont understand the hoarder mentality of that kinda stuff

but it aint the first time ive seen people do that so

[gritty olive]

i dont need to use = dont need to pop

[bronze plume]

cuz youre clearly a whale

[gritty olive]

im a dolphin

[craggy pond]

"nothing" is just hugely overblown to me, because again, it's not actually "nothing", free weapons exist, and in certain cases p5 of these weapons are straight up better than whatever p0 bp provides

in which case is it even worth it to grab the bp

if you're gonna leave it at p0

[gritty olive]

one more arsenal ten pull ig

[craggy pond]

i think that's a massive oversimplification

[bronze plume]

pretty sure

you are a homosapien

[inland quarry]

Again, this goes back to f2p. P5 of 5* weps is not easy for f2p to get. Sig banners don't have all 5* and with avg luck, don't give many pots for the ones they do have. This means it is likely to take f2p multiple years to expect p5 in a specific 5* wep

[daring dove]

Refinements on this weapon are a case study in how weapons refinements shouldn’t only scale with DMG%.

[craggy pond]

5* weapons are on rotation and if a f2p wants to p5 any specific one, they totally could

if i'm an f2p i'm down to do that

if that means getting a better weapon

[inland quarry]

F2p spending arsenal tickets on 5* pots is pretty sketch

[sterile moat]

would have to make the dmg % bigger otherwise, but idk if they were balancing it because of her pots / numbers

[gritty olive]

[inland quarry]

Especially since those 5* weps are already third place

[craggy pond]

this is where it just comes down to personal preference, because again i as a f2p would do it

[gritty olive]

i wouldnt recc a person snipe a 5* weapon hopefully unless you can get the 6* weapon as well that is needed for one of your units

[craggy pond]

not sniping, but literally buying it on rotation

in fact people already do this

with things like sundering steel

or stanza

[gritty olive]

ah buying in rotation surege

[daring dove]

Yeah it does seem like a lot of the characters end up around the same percentage over base at P5-P5, for example Rossi has worse character potentials but better weapon potentials. I think their overall game over P0 would be quite similar with character & weapon both P5. Although going for weapon P5 is an extra level of whale. So I suppose Fangyi is more accessible.

[tough nest]

Imo as f2p I'd rather skip the characters if their sig is too needed and only pull if I can get sig/bp p0 is enough

[gritty olive]

meta thinking

[craggy pond]

honestly it just comes down to the definition of "enough" in this case

[tough nest]

Still not using any bp weapon, would have skipped if I couldn't get my sigs

[craggy pond]

the word is thrown around a lot, but given the current state of the game, i don't see how we can even define it

[sterile moat]

around 70% gain seems to be current cap

[craggy pond]

when technically limited units aren't even required to clear all contents

right now, pulling is just personal liking or qol

[tough nest]

Enough for me would be gil or yvonne, p5 wedge isn't too hard to get long term

[daring dove]

Anyway moral of the story is just pull Tangtang & be happy because Supreme Chief is still the best.

[gritty olive]

youd love to be me

[tough nest]

Thinking about p5ing bp weapons as f2p is just too unrealistic for me

[daring dove]

Fangyi will likely improve in value a lot once we get CC though an we have enemies that don’t die in 1 rot.

[tough nest]

I got a bunch too, but I skipped Yvonne so

[daring dove]

She’s too slow for current meta to be a meaningful improvement.

[gritty olive]

risk1: all enemies hace +50 arts res
risk1: all enemies have 40 electric res

[tough nest]

Then again, if you are thinking about powercreep and such, new dps sig will always be better

[craggy pond]

she's already dominating in a meta that's not even suited for her

which is kinda funny

[grim hill]

question, what's best gear for tangtang? full bonekrusha 4 piece?

[gritty olive]

id rather have this than biweekly rotating content

[tough nest]

I just personally feel more inclined to try having the characters I like the most at their best

[gritty olive]

its fine

i have fangyi m12 + p0 max but no gear yet

[craggy pond]

you mean p5 bp? Because p5 wedge is way harder to obtain than p5 bp

[gritty olive]

[tough nest]

No, I disagree

Wedge was in many banners so far

[craggy pond]

i mean, that's not... really a concrete argument, that's just "the pattern has been this way, so i'm hoping it continues to be this way"

[grim hill]

alo, is this true for tangtang in LR team?

[compact bridge]

Unless they add bp weapon to the loser pool, i think its safe to assume getting wedge is easy

[tough nest]

I think you are underestimating how long 6 patches are lol

It's wayyyy too much time

[sterile moat]

so true, supreme chief best in overworld

[tough nest]

And the fact you can get spooked by characters you skip

[craggy pond]

and i think you're underestimating how difficult it is to p5 a specific offrate weapon

[tough nest]

Unless you just decide to not use them

You don't have to p5 it immediately, but you might long term, while using BP for characters you get off rate or wanted to pull

And we are assuming all weapons won't be removed from BP

[smoky quarry]

100 oroberyls for linking discord account? Wallahi, I am finished, this generosity is crazy

[craggy pond]

i mean that's more up to the player. As an f2p, i would do the same thing you did for the character, but for the bp. If i pull a character and grab their bp, then at the minimum i won't just leave it at p0, maybe not p5, but definitely not p0. Otherwise i would rather just use a free weapon

maybe it's just a difference in mindset, i've always leaned more towards hyperoptimizing rather than having a variety like pulling 10 different teams with 10 different sets of weapons. I'd rather have only half of that but each of them actually having what they need

[tough nest]

It's why I don't pull unless I can get sig anyways

[compact bridge]

Nahh, p0 bp is still better than whatever the next best free weapon, mainly because of the fact we can upgrade that p0 bp to 9/9/p4

[tough nest]

In the end, you'll get lucky eventually and get 2 sigs for the price of one, things balance themselves long term

[tough nest]

And this, I don't get why you'd use a free weapon if bp is at worst, the third option

[craggy pond]

it's not about better or not, it's about whether i'd rather have a 5-10% improvement across all units i own, or a 20% on the ones that actually matter to me

[thorn shore]

What a strong step towards improving the pull economy, this kind of generosity is what they were talking about

[craggy pond]

as i said, i always leaned more towards having a more meaningful investment on fewer units, than "okay-fine" on many of them

[tough nest]

Always save 240 pulls then :P

[thorn shore]

Save for p5

[craggy pond]

well, it's not too far from the truth, that's basically what i did on other games of this genre

unless their p1 equivalent is just not that great

[tough nest]

I haven't played other 3d gachas but from what I've heard most f2p don't bother with sigs

[craggy pond]

well this game is rather unique because you gain weapon pulls passively

[tough nest]

I came from og arknights so I hate the fact we even need to pull weapons in the first place

[craggy pond]

in other games you have to distribute pulls to weapon

so that's what i usually do there

[compact bridge]

Getting sig is easy in wuwa or hsr, the hard one would be genshin sig

[warped sorrel]

you dont have to
just use free bp

[tough nest]

I guess

[sterile moat]

@daring dove

mfw zfy is only 162.7%

rossi was 174.9%

[dry kindle]

🗿

[maiden crag]

oh what site is that
I don't speak the language but I'll be able to understand a bit of it

[sterile moat]

https://space.bilibili.com/267766441

from this guy's channel

[dry kindle]

Didnt specify arclight p4 jump this user

[sterile moat]

who doesn't even have p4 arclight

[dry kindle]

Die

Oh right I finally got p5 wulf

[maiden crag]

Yeah getting P5 5* is kinda RNG.

Luckily I got all of them after this Fangyi banner but for example I didn't get my 1st dapan until like 400 pulls in

[outer ermine]

bro called u broke

or unlucky horse too hawt for u

[honest hill]

Hifum ur so rich

[dry kindle]

[outer ermine]

holos paying for my bills

[dry kindle]

Fund me

[honest hill]

Nah u pay for mine

[honest hill]

Go ask striker

[sterile moat]

9% dps increase over rossi wheelchair comp is interesting

35.5s rota vs 60s though

[willow blade]

what is the best no starting ult team and gear set for p1zfy

[dry kindle]

Xira kit

[honest hill]

That's the most important thing lmao

[inland quarry]

Tell that to my p1 perlica and p2 xaihi

Meanwhile I've had like 12 arclights

[sterile moat]

at whale p5+6 levels, its just 3% gap in dps lmao

but almost double the rota time

i wonder what the calc for zfy rossi dps is for whales

[honest hill]

I forgot

P5P5

[inland quarry]

Should tt use qingbo armor for the set?

With the cs cdr set effect, uge should be unnecessary right?

Bonecrusher heavy t2 or frontier t1 would offer more damage

[honest hill]

don't know if there are calcs yet but supposed to be more comfy

But I'm not bothered to change it

[late dove]

Woa where do u check that?

[sterile moat]

read a few messages down

bilibili channel

[frigid vector]

like a clear?

or ohow quickly she can get ult

[dry kindle]

Just start up

[sterile moat]

i saw that the quickest was 30s?

[dry kindle]

P4 is 20 or something

Dying from cringe because i don't think there's a p0 500sp

Give us uge xiraflow already waaah

[sterile moat]

i was looking at a vid saying how people were mistaken because 40s rota > 30s rota since you get more sp when you enter ult

[frigid vector]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1fiddBhEBb/?vd_source=2333cbdc65b59f6ff9aa23e64112a156

with arm

is about 20s

32s for p0

[dry kindle]

Isn't it p1

600 32s ig

Uh

They didn't even give the tourney zfy masteries

Or talents

Playing that shit sounds so goofy

[wispy shuttle]

huh. that's so jank lmao

[edgy crater]

nefar? not gonna attempt it, 1:47 enough for my malnourished team

[inland quarry]

No essences either

[open hare]

Gyaaa

[open hare]

W Elfen Lied pfp

[kindred sorrel]

is perlica normal attack string faster than zfy?

or is there another reason she's used on field

[chilly bolt]

yes

[frozen tide]

fang btk seems to have ass cancels icl

also has anyone looked into mi security zhuang

she already gets 10000000 dmg bonus some extra attack percent sounds nice

[sturdy hill]

peak

[dry kindle]

like

the 10% you get from xiraflow

[frozen tide]

You have a point and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if xiran was just better

I was wondering if anyone looked into it however

[river ermine]

tbh theres no good matching stat for her

[dry kindle]

go crit

[frozen tide]

Cause mi can give up to 35 atk total

[river ermine]

i just looked into the sets it doesnt have any good will main

[dry kindle]

25

[frozen tide]

Doesn't mi have btk dmg will for all 3

[frozen tide]

It gives 5 percent base and extra 5 at max stacks

[dry kindle]

😭

[river ermine]

extra 5 is cr

[dry kindle]

cr

[frozen tide]

An iq too high

🔥

[river ermine]

gloves are agi/str

[frozen tide]

Ur right

[river ermine]

only chest has will

kit that has will is h/n%

bs% is agi/str

c/e% is will sub

but ig thats kit also having bad stat so who cares i guess lmoa

[river ermine]

oh wait

[frozen tide]

2 of those kit and chest

Tho you can't run slab in that case

🤔

I have seen ppl use xira uge gloves for ult bp

@forest lily have you happened to look into mi security for zhuang?

[river ermine]

xira uge gloves is

bad stat

its int/will/uge

shd prob run this instead

[frozen tide]

One of the guides i was looking at was recommending xiranflow x3 with xira uge gloves

[river ermine]

to have an easier time getting the crit ig?

[dry kindle]

atp just run bonekrusher

[river ermine]

we cant rly get full potential of bk but maybe

nvm

these stats are dog

[frozen tide]

Bk sounds worse than xiranflow in every way i can think of

[dry kindle]

it is

but its better than mi 🗿

[frozen tide]

Only reason i see any spec of potential from mi is just cause atk percent

[river ermine]

15% atk and 30% per all bs in ult lol

[frozen tide]

Zhuangs sig with substats and ww etc just

Gets such ridiculous amounts of dmg percent

[river ermine]

at that point should you not just run double slab

oh nvm i misread the sentence

[frozen tide]

I haven't done any maths on it and tbh I don't even know where to start if i wanted to

Cause i don't fully understand how zhuang and her rots work

But intuitively double slab didn't make much sense to me

Peak vibes crafting

[river ermine]

something something sig provides 150% dmg% p0

[frozen tide]

😭

Yeah

Add a few gear sub stats and ww on that

Make the sig p5

Add zhuang p2

And you have like 6 million dmg percent

[river ermine]

why cant one of them be will int

[dry kindle]

its all cooked when we get a uge xiraflow piece anyway

[river ermine]

i should probably get on working excel sheet for calc comparison

but im lazy pro max

[forest lily]

There is no way it proves better

[dry kindle]

just crit more

[frozen tide]

Could i hear the rationale

Not that i doubt you but I'd like to know how it comes out that way

Cause like I under nothing abt zhuang

Other than her having bazillion dmg percent

[river ermine]

to me honestly its just

bad non matching stat

not having the will main stat kinda tanks a lot

[frozen tide]

Why can't she use the will main chest and kit for the MI pieces

Or are 3 bs percent pieces not ideal

[river ermine]

what would the gloves be

[frozen tide]

Off piece

Idk

Miner t2

[river ermine]

so we are running mi set on 5% crit

gg

[frozen tide]

Miner t2 stonks

[frozen tide]

She does attack like ten bazillion times

Hit the crits smh

And eat that ginseng

[forest lily]

Rena is right on losing will

Alot of zhuangs power comes from her incredibly high will stat

[edgy crater]

xiranite meatball for 26% cr

[forest lily]

Especially with how that proves with % bonus from slab

[wispy shuttle]

also having a bazillion dmg percent is not a reason to lose half a bazillion dmg percent

[frozen tide]

Losing slab just isn't ideal huh

[river ermine]

i mean

simple

we get both sets

ill run the calc

so now give me the pieces

[frozen tide]

No set bonus comes close to giving half as much as what she already has

[river ermine]

losing 45% dmg% for 25% atk when she already get 150% from sig, seems, ok

[frozen tide]

How does double slab work out

[forest lily]

It's not that bad

But losing set bonus is just worse

[river ermine]

i rmb theres this sheet

[forest lily]

I love this Chinese mayhem

[river ermine]

but hes running double uge double slab

[forest lily]

That I can totally read

[river ermine]

theyre* im not trying to assume gender

[river ermine]

git gud

[frozen tide]

What's the best set in their conclusion

I can't read ts either

[forest lily]

Bro

[river ermine]

1 slab 3pc xira

[forest lily]

Im learning Korean and Japanese at the same time

[river ermine]

ok bro i learned chinese and japanese at the same time too

[forest lily]

Putting Chinese in there too is like

Impossible

[river ermine]

well probably easier on my side

[frozen tide]

Is this for p4/p5 or

[river ermine]

0+1

[frozen tide]

Ight

[river ermine]

let me translate from top to bot

wait

[frozen tide]

Basically every source ive seen seems to recommend xiranx3 slab i just wanted to make sure to get rid of every hint of doubt

Since every piece i artifice

[forest lily]

Gonna be waiting a while

[frozen tide]

Seems to turn out not to be ideal

Like a month later

[river ermine]

full UGE
BK UGE 1 stick
BK UGE 2 stick
BK UGE 1 slab
BK UGE 2 slab
xiraflow + aux arm
xiraflow + xira glove
4pc xira
3pc xira + slab

[dry kindle]

i mean

we got update in a month or whatever

so

[river ermine]

well update comes around per month

[frozen tide]

You bring up a fair point

[edgy crater]

14th may for test area

[forest lily]

Do you want me to run 3 identical rots and run the numbers

With MI Vs xiran flow Vs 2x slab

[dry kindle]

also

[frozen tide]

I would love to see that

[dry kindle]

just use them

[river ermine]

as for pieces
Chest - Arm - Kit - Kit
BK Xira Xira Xira
BK Xira Xira Flow
BK Xira Flow Flow
BK Xira Xira Slab
BK Xira Slab Slab
Flow Flow Flow Xira
Flow Xira Stick Stick
BK Flow Flow Flow
Flow x4
Flow x3 + Slab

[frozen tide]

If it isn't much burdonsome

[river ermine]

critfishing mi rot since its 5%

[forest lily]

Mf

You can calc that one

[river ermine]

fuck you lmao

[forest lily]

I'll run the rot on the rest

[river ermine]

🤔 when 3xira + aux arm is doing like 18% worse than slab i dont think it matters what you run

just run either of these

[drifting quest]

We'll never escape people trying to push mi sec on non crit carries

[river ermine]

hey i mean

25% atk is 25%

(pls dont burn me)

[frozen tide]

But what if

🔥

[dry kindle]

but what if wnn user

[river ermine]

nah like running mi on 5% cr is like

diabolical

[forest lily]

But imagine you crit every time

[river ermine]

ok but what if you also crit every time in xiraflow

[forest lily]

Is this true

[dry kindle]

[forest lily]

I should get P2 delivery on rerun so I never have to put stanza on gilb again

Unless the off chance no cs

[river ermine]

getting the numbers from the gear pcs manually is kinda annoying

https://klipy.com/gifs/jgmm-monkey-think

[drifting quest]

Stanza v Sig is never solely a case of pots anyway

[river ermine]

chatting without slowmode is kinda fun

[drifting quest]

Get P2 only to find out its still worse than stanza

[forest lily]

I mean deliv higher uptime with higher numbers at p2

[drifting quest]

In what scenario

[frozen tide]

Ngl i regret buying stanza copies

[drifting quest]

They're different buffs

[frozen tide]

I have p9 stanza now

[river ermine]

lol i held out on getting the last pot

[dry kindle]

[river ermine]

i did 60 pulls and has gotten 0

[dry kindle]

same

still dont have it

[drifting quest]

Effective result depends on team gear rot yada

There's no 'get X pot and suddenly sig is always better'

[frozen tide]

At this rate I'll have 2 max pot stanzas by the time we get 2 team end game

[forest lily]

Ok I'll just get p5

[dry kindle]

at this rate we get gun stanza

[river ermine]

i mean my last pot is

its here yk

i just

do i wanna get it

[frozen tide]

No

[drifting quest]

Even p5 sig can lose to stanza

Idgi

[forest lily]

How diluted is your dealt% atp

[drifting quest]

Most teams are pretty diluted

[river ermine]

should i just go and get delivery instead to prep for nature dps

[drifting quest]

Varies per team a lot

Att atk% also matters

Hence why pots are never the sole factor

[dry kindle]

the nefarious nature sui with arts unit 🗣️

[drifting quest]

UGE req is always the bigger factor

[river ermine]

p5 opus

[drifting quest]

Ignoring future cases where you cannot use stanza ofc

[forest lily]

Can't wait for nature dps to drop after rerun and nobody believed in gilb sig

[dry kindle]

who the fuck using opus ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[river ermine]

i was thinking what the fuck is spa supposed to mean

special attack we aint in pokemon

[forest lily]

Yeah ofc, in my scenarios it is however

[dry kindle]

ok whel

[forest lily]

💀I hate typing on phone

[drifting quest]

So 1 team 1 gear setup 1 rot exact weapons

[forest lily]

Avy team

[drifting quest]

I mean power to you I guess but id never bet on that remaining

[forest lily]

Though I'd need to check with new gear set actually

Good point

[river ermine]

to be honest

having more delivery uptime is like

kinda whatever

[drifting quest]

Gilb leaving the team
New avy spear
New avy gear set
New rot with different uge req
Etc etc

[river ermine]

not like avy can utilize that

[forest lily]

Well you can say any weapon will get worse with time though

I don't think that's a fair argument

[drifting quest]

Yes

Welcome to endfield tc

Nothing is permanent

[forest lily]

Which is why we build for now

No point trying to predict your future sets

[drifting quest]

This is kind of exactly my point

Planning around getting 2 extra copies of a weapon for a minor upgrade that can easily become a downgrade just because it's that minor upgrade right now

Again pop off if you want but

The smallest baits catch the biggest fish or whatnot

[forest lily]

Yeah, I agree with all said

We're on the same page, it's just decisions and how strong you want to be in the current patch

Personally I always strive to be as strong as I personally can be each and every patch, I don't mind getting new gear or weapons, because it's a live service game at the end of the day

I got my entertainment with those old things, and I'll get entertainment out of the new

[drifting quest]

Whale gapped I guess

P5p5 everything

[forest lily]

Not particularly, I'm only P1 Zhuang and P2 gilb

I just kinda dolphin for entertainment

[drifting quest]

I find myself confused by your conflicting statements but

It is what it is

[forest lily]

What do you find conflicting?

When I say "I always strive to be as strong as I personally can" that does not mean the strongest possible in game

[honest hill]

what's happening

[wild rose]

Striving to be best in the present without the assurance of money will have you unable to strive to be best in the future

[forest lily]

It means strongest I am willing to go financially wise

[bronze plume]

yap

[honest hill]

gimme tldr

[bronze plume]

bro idc enuf to know whats going on gang

read yoself

[honest hill]

no I don't wanna

[forest lily]

Just talking about the worth of minor upgrades when it'll likely be outclassed in the future

[bronze plume]

womp

[honest hill]

That's normal

[forest lily]

Like for example, P2 delivery which benefits very little teams over p5 stanza

[bronze plume]

mid ahh anime

[forest lily]

And that paragraph I sent was just about that

[honest hill]

hater

[bronze plume]

not my fault is garbo

[honest hill]

what anime do u even watch

[bronze plume]

anime that exist

[honest hill]

I will never get dupes for weapons again

[bronze plume]

im sorry but it was good until

the weird af brother sister shit]

[forest lily]

I always have the assurance, but again, it's a live service game, its just how it rolls

[forest lily]

Really?

[frozen tide]

Oshi no ko ending

Is cursed

[honest hill]

because arsenal ticket system sucks

[bronze plume]

it gave us a good 1st season opening tho

[neat snow]

If you do not p5p5 your waifu you don't actually love them

[drifting quest]

I dont love them

[bronze plume]

said the nitro haver

[drifting quest]

Im not parasocial

[bronze plume]

^

[frozen tide]

The manga ending

What i mean

[bronze plume]

im paraphycho

[frozen tide]

Also what is this nothingburger argument going on

[forest lily]

It's true

[frozen tide]

Play the game however you like to have fun

[bronze plume]

i dont even think it fits the bill for a argument

[forest lily]

^ lol

[frozen tide]

Spend as much money as you want to and can afford to reasonably

[bronze plume]

you will get clowned on for spending on a gacha game

[gaunt mason]

many such cases

[bronze plume]

but you do you

[forest lily]

Though I make content I'm forced to spend to make my brain feel right

[frozen tide]

Who gaf

Me when i get e bullied ig

[bronze plume]

the people who get clowned on normally

[neat snow]

I am well respected in my local communities for being a patron of the gacha arts

[honest hill]

I wish they improve it but highly unlikely

it's the worst part of the gacha system

[drifting quest]

I dont tell people irl I play gacha

[bronze plume]

im respected for commissioning 20% of the overall ardelia art in the web

[drifting quest]

Its that simple

[bronze plume]

not a good conversation starter

[frozen tide]

Only time i talk abt gachas irl is when they bring it up first

[drifting quest]

'Nice weather, huh?'
'I'm $2k in debt for a png'

[frozen tide]

Has happened a few times despite me not talking to very much ppl on avg irl

[bronze plume]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-peter-griffin-credit-card-debt-credit-card-debt-gif-27305263

[frozen tide]

🤔

[neat snow]

Only 2k is rookie number

[bronze plume]

thats just a sad statement

[drifting quest]

I'm $0 in debt and have never been in debt over a gacha game

[neat snow]

I actually have no debt

[drifting quest]

Thats a lie I have student loan debt

[bronze plume]

ehh you dont gotta pay it off youre fine

just die and its gone ez

[drifting quest]

Im on the old loan system for my country so it gets written off in a couple decades

Extra bit of income tax that I'll never pay off then it goes away forever

[neat snow]

That's nice I guess. But does it affect credit or anything? I didn't take out loans for college I went to a cheap school

[bronze plume]

depends

[river ermine]

ngl @frozen tide mi set 25% is kinda going insane

[frozen tide]

@drifting quest take that hater

Mi on top

🦾

[river ermine]

well

[bronze plume]

if you have student loan debts if you have to do payments for it and you do it on time it can improve it

[river ermine]

if you hit the 0.05 * 5

[outer ermine]

u on top

[frozen tide]

😭

[neat snow]

If you're top who's the bottom

[bronze plume]

Schling for the last time get off Shuo

[frozen tide]

Mi security on top

[frozen tide]

What are we talm bout bro

[river ermine]

well they tagged shuo

[neat snow]

[drifting quest]

Tap the sign

[frozen tide]

😭

[bronze plume]

youre not Mi Security you are Schling

bro forgot his name

[drifting quest]

MI calcs get done day 1

Every time

Without fail

People want it to be good for some reason

[frozen tide]

Hidden mi society

[neat snow]

That's the crit set?

[drifting quest]

If never is unless they are a shilled crit carry

[river ermine]

mi cult

[bronze plume]

the ride or die crit cult will live on

[wild rose]

Crit gambling is in high demand

[frozen tide]

Each sword attack can crit right

[river ermine]

i mean

[sterile moat]

is there calcs done for bonekrusha zfy?

[river ermine]

yeah

[drifting quest]

P miserable

[neat snow]

I think we are conditioned by many games to see crit as the largest source of damage

[drifting quest]

Act shocked

[river ermine]

@sterile moat fwiw theres this if theres anything wrong blame @dry kindle

[sterile moat]

[river ermine]

me when smt crit is like 25% or 30%

[neat snow]

All maplestory players will want to stack crit like crazy in every game

[drifting quest]

Hoyo gearing has done irreperable harm to the intelligence of most people

[river ermine]

Hoyo gearing has done irreperable harm to the intelligence of most people

[frozen tide]

Crit was not the main consideration from me in looking into mi for zhuang

Its just cause of atk

Crit is necessary for the proc condition ofc

[blazing sluice]

chat
considering my 2nd team don't want gilberta

is she good enuf over antal on zhuang to warrant pulling her

[frozen tide]

I think antal is competitive

[neat snow]

Probably not

[frozen tide]

High pot gilb is probs a lot better but like

[bronze plume]

so have there games tbf

[frozen tide]

[dry kindle]

so called free thinkers when 1:2 cr cd

[blazing sluice]

p0 best i can do

[neat snow]

But gilb is good on so many teams

She's a really good pull

[frozen tide]

Yeah I wouldn't bother if only for zhuang

[drifting quest]

But what if we went 1:3 instead
Revolutionary
Visionary

[frozen tide]

Whens her rerun anyways

[river ermine]

may 14

[blazing sluice]

yeah second team is physical
idk if she'll be relevant when i build 3rd

[river ermine]

i mean

[neat snow]

I'd imagine her being useful for some time

[river ermine]

you can always wait for the next reveal

[neat snow]

Unless they really wanna power creep this early

[river ermine]

then vibecraft that if they need gil or not

that simple

[river ermine]

glory to 2k% fangyi

[wild rose]

Fangyi consuming the electrification also removes its effect entirely, right?

[river ermine]

i mean

yes

supposedly

consuming lvl2 is stronger than consumign lvl1 with electrification debuff

if thats what youre gonna ask

[wild rose]

I'd think so too, yeah... asking because someone was saying it kept affecting the skill even after it was consumed

[forest lily]

no the skill eats it prior to any damage numbers

[wild rose]

@terse bridge

There we go

[terse bridge]

Ty, will note it down

Oh, etoo

[wild rose]

mmm

[river ermine]

theres bookmark?

[forest lily]

huh

[wild rose]

Isn't that a plugin for

[drifting quest]

Cough

[wild rose]

ehem

[forest lily]

lol

[bronze plume]

cough indeed

[river ermine]

ekhm

[forest lily]

yeah bucko

[terse bridge]

[drifting quest]

Cough

[forest lily]

i have nitro

[river ermine]

lmao

[terse bridge]

Nahhh yall fucking with me

[wild rose]

[forest lily]

we'll let you off this time

[drifting quest]

Its official feature

[bronze plume]

icl

[drifting quest]

Its just not exclusively one

[sturdy hill]

cough

[drifting quest]

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/26442819646999-Message-Bookmarks-and-Reminders

[bronze plume]

tbf bookmarking messagse was a experimental feature back in like 2024

[river ermine]

oh its experimental

[terse bridge]

I still have it

Idk

[bronze plume]

you have experimental stuff turned on in discord then + nitro to actually use it

people just trippin

[terse bridge]

Apparently searched it up and its not even needed nitro for that

[bronze plume]

no its nitro only

[terse bridge]

Damn p2w

[bronze plume]

the cough

is when you can do it not nitro

[bronze plume]

how are you winning

wanna see how you just bookmark messages

[bronze plume]

@bronze plume