theorycrafting

[dry kindle]

not even max

smh

[chilly bolt]

that or hotwork?

oh wait hotwork is bs dmg

[echo cove]

Just tested it today, that's why

[echo cove]

Hw is good but can't rly proc the set effect unless u set it up w sth else for corrosion...

I was running hw b4

This set lets me spam gil's skill nonstop

Hw just eat too much sp to deal good dmg tbh

[rare zodiac]

Reason?

[echo cove]

Hm maybe hw glove would be better there

[next helm]

Aoe potential?

[rare zodiac]

Like mobs wave?

Could be, i mean Yvonne AoE is kinda nonexistent

If mobs is close enough the last hit of ult do have a small AoE i guess

[sturdy hill]

holy shit

never reached below 17.9k hp

lv80 marble btw

i dont have enough sanity for the last one

[echo cove]

btw how many crit rate do we typically need to consistently proc mi set's bonus?

[next helm]

Depends on hitcount no?

[echo cove]

i think so, yeh

well i reckon perlica's crit build existed rite

what was the crit% req for it?

i forgot who was testin it b4

[honest hill]

Your ember never went below 17.9k hp?

[sturdy hill]

might be too tanky

[honest hill]

There's no such thing

[smoky quarry]

What's the reasoning behind putting hotworks set on perlica?

[echo cove]

the glove?

[honest hill]

AI

or something

probably right stats

Moat likely right stats

[echo cove]

will substat is better than old aether

[ripe adder]

hello guys it appears I am based @dusk isle told me this is my natural habitat

[honest hill]

Yes

[ripe adder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMuwl7mU5Q

[honest hill]

[ripe adder]

is this optimal or there's some variance in lr tang team

[honest hill]

all ik is gear sets rotations tho idk too much

rotations do vary

[ripe adder]

I'm taking information to see if it's good for me later

[honest hill]

I don't watch this CC so idk

[gaunt mason]

for lr? you need the ult gain from a redeemer seal for cycling, it gives more ai than 3x pulsar when you consider that

[ripe adder]

mf go watch lmao

well I want to see what people here think of that video specifically bc I'm doing the same ish rotation

[neon knot]

is it worth artificing yvonne's gear or will new stuff come out to powercreep it lmao

[honest hill]

Maybe that means ur smart or dumb

[chilly bolt]

I still think notmalok vid is better

[honest hill]

[honest hill]

I use his vids ye

True LR main

[ripe adder]

o I watch this guy too

so 2 tang combo into whirlpool > bs always ig

[honest hill]

Yeah

[chilly bolt]

2 combo if you dont have ult

[ripe adder]

how many whirlpool ult generate

[chilly bolt]

If you have tt ult, just need 1 combo since ult dive gives +1 sprout

[neon knot]

im so broooooke

[honest hill]

unbroke urself

[neon knot]

but i need essences....

[smoky quarry]

I might not have a brain gentlemen, but I have an idea

[ripe adder]

[smoky quarry]

Sub dps wulfgard on electro-team

[ripe adder]

what about the new gears does lr uses anything new

I only updated tang and xaihi so far

[smoky quarry]

yinglung as new option

for raw cs and ult damage

and set effect is nice

[ripe adder]

skill dmg?

the old yinglung does all skill dmg lul

I have that one

but the new one haven't checked

[chilly bolt]

Yinglung chest or yinglung set?

[dusk isle]

I think they mean 3p yinglung

[ripe adder]

just offset

[ripe adder]

o dang

[chilly bolt]

3p yinglung is for the funny big bonk meme

[ripe adder]

but is it good enough

what's the offset

[dusk isle]

Redeemer or tide surge glove i guess

[smoky quarry]

Actually avywenna will be a third-wheel in this compo since she'll need electro infliction and she'll get none

also by this point perlica has higher damage share than rabbit

[rich linden]

Chat whats laevatain best build

[smoky quarry]

define best

[dusk isle]

Ofc he has the glove fully artificed

[rich linden]

Biggest dmg

[chilly bolt]

As expected from hnaf

[smoky quarry]

Hotworks

[rich linden]

She aint using any new pieces of gear huh

[smoky quarry]

Pretty sure she could use this

[lime nacelle]

Does Yvonne still use basic attack damage modifiers when shooting during her ultimate?

[gaunt mason]

considered basic attack damage but scales off ult level

[lime nacelle]

Probably not worth using ultimate damage gear then.

[ripe adder]

okhey

[edgy crater]

oi

anyway khang, yinglung ulti also possible as option

[honest hill]

Do that then

[drifting berry]

Okay, even with bp I'm still missing like 1.2M t-creds for Rossi + another character

2800 Sanity worth of protocol runs to get that much

https://tenor.com/view/izuna-blue-archive-kuda-izuna-aruji-dono-plushie-gif-10588820417426689722

back to the mines

Then I would need like another 200-300 protohedron but that one should be slightly easier? idk

[smoky quarry]

you'll get a lot of progression material in the next 5 events

umbral, spatial, supply, survival and rinse

I'd farm essenses if I were you

[summer flicker]

yep

[drifting berry]

Yeah I guess

[summer flower]

Man, why soup has to have top tier animations and snappy feel to gameplay

It makes me wanna pull

[summer flicker]

because she peak

[drifting berry]

I might still be missing some T-creds tho

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

Running animation itself

[drifting berry]

didn't pull? 🧱

[honest hill]

but u didn't P5

Fake whel

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

I don't have pulls

[honest hill]

loading into endfield first time is a struggle

[summer flower]

When redacted plays gacha and spends entire city's GDP

[smoky quarry]

Meet the mental illness team

Wulfgard is main dps here, uses combustion generated by gilb bs + wulf cs or perli bs + ake bs to deal huge damage, also can consume elecrif
Perlica is subdps high investment, helps generating combustion alongside akekuri
Akekuri and Gilberta are ultbotting and pressing BS

[edgy crater]

im sure ur perlica just outdps wulf

[smoky quarry]

I have three variations for wulfgard set, it's hard to tell which one will be better

T1 Frontier Armor - Bonekrusha Wristband - Bonekrusha Mask T2 - Bonekrusha Mask T2

Hotwork Exoskeleton - Hot Work Gaunlets - Hot Work Pyrometer - Slab

T1 Frontier Armor - Redeemer Hands - Slab - Slab
.

Devs added some new hotwork parts, just not for wulfgard, it's kinda shit trying to make 3/3 set on him

Should be either BK or Slab

Nope, slab numbers are straight up shit without BS damage, BK bonus, and strength attr

So bonekrusha it is

[smoky quarry]

Jokes on you, wulf BS deals almost 1100% of damage

And on top of that I have bonekrusha, scorching fangs talent, clannibal, and +130% bs damage

and couple of team buffs

[civic wolf]

does Akekuri render Arclight not needed for Avy team?

[smoky quarry]

Doesn't looks weird if you remember that hellagur is over 70 years old, he just treats younger people as grandchildren despite looking young

but the music choice was straight up terrible 🥀

[honest hill]

You can dps pog but mid damage

if ur just doing it for fun then it doesn't matter how much dmg u do

[oak vigil]

It’s the same for Perlica, Arclight, etc etc, literally any unit ever which isn’t “originally designated as dps”

[smoky quarry]

shush

[oak vigil]

Like yeah, you will probably perform less effectively than mundane dps team, but the mentality over “don’t even bother” is eeeeh

[smoky quarry]

all sub-dps units are good at dealing damage

[honest hill]

I mean the spreadsheet is to build the best teams

the content in the game is so easy anyways

[smoky quarry]

"gap so big i've never considered it''

[limber hamlet]

spend everything and got two off rates characters lol

how

[honest hill]

They aren't going to give u the gears and best teams for dps pog because it's not worth it

[drifting quest]

Perlica was a dps turned buffer not the inverse

[acoustic trellis]

maybe I should learn how to play these 2 teams

[honest hill]

[smoky quarry]

"Spend everything, we keep nothing"

[smoky quarry]

What an atrocious way to use the wife

[drifting quest]

OW only team
Speedrun only team

[smoky quarry]

1. Pogr is here for fastest dash, ember is for heal
2. Don't bother

it plays like shit unless you do rotation by heart

[acoustic trellis]

by saying don't bother, you've piqued my interest

[honest hill]

You can brick ur acc the way you want

[smoky quarry]

and even then it's only boss rush team

[smoky quarry]

You can't stack heat infliction properly cause of wulfgard and lava antisynergy

[honest hill]

How many weeks till 1.2

[smoky quarry]

unless you follow some specifical rotation

[honest hill]

Anyone know

[drifting quest]

Like 4

[honest hill]

ah

I have no use for my catalysts rn

[smoky quarry]

1 battlepass = 1 patch

[honest hill]

I want to max the bp quick

Get that P5 memory

[smoky quarry]

gonna be begging my friend for bp again 😭

[honest hill]

[smoky quarry]

cuayo

[terse bramble]

is this all the data you got and did you only get from 1 specific item on 1 specific day?

[sturdy hill]

holy its die alive

why ur here too

[terse bramble]

hello

[honest hill]

I'll prob have like 350 catalysts for 1.2

[sturdy hill]

hi

[honest hill]

[smoky quarry]

you don't have a second team?

[honest hill]

What does this mean

[honest hill]

I have 3 teams

[smoky quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/speaki-cuayo-joayo-gif-13495867853368286148

[honest hill]

if I get Lifeng I can build phys team

[smoky quarry]

and they have fully artificed gear

yeah, sure

math doesn't checks out

[honest hill]

nah i don't just 2/3 on dps mainly

[smoky quarry]

then go artifice

[honest hill]

Game is too easy tho

[sturdy hill]

60k/artificing time

[honest hill]

I'll save my catalysts for Zhuang or whoever in 1.2 if I end up pulling

[sturdy hill]

this is so painful

[smoky quarry]

I wish I could just skip a day and wake up at 12:00 AM like nothing happened

[acoustic trellis]

guys i need major help, soup is over dps-ing my laevatain

[smoky quarry]

Waiting is tiresome

[smoky quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-jimmy-butler-paper-confused-gif-14478007832172093541

[terse bramble]

got this a while ago and data does look skewed
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXRGObWZiPcFti1bJjtPyrSU2EdmXWROuZLKnmd5IVQ/edit?usp=sharing

[acoustic trellis]

nah like... on god, actually...

[cinder oxide]

Started td

Will do it properly on a high stock day

[honest hill]

If we had like CC or babel i would artifice more

[violet rose]

is this the right chest piece for perlica? just wnted to make sure

[smoky quarry]

how do I build tung tung the chief?

[terse bramble]

also a believe the stocks building level affects the distribution but i have no way to verify or test that so yeah

[acoustic trellis]

as a mdps?

[honest hill]

Depends

[cinder oxide]

Also what's your sample size

[terse bramble]

~100 ich from each item on every day for 1 week

[smoky quarry]

How do I build up pulls for her?

[terse bramble]

u can see there in the sheet

[cinder oxide]

We also found that certain items are considered low, med, and high rank goods, corresponding to a soft limit of 4.7k, 5k and 5,4k

[honest hill]

u not getting enough pulls

[cinder oxide]

If u we'rent aware

[drifting quest]

No

Other HW Body from cuprium

[smoky quarry]

there's only two?

[cinder oxide]

That's someone else's work though

[drifting quest]

Huh

Give me a minute

[terse bramble]

i have noticed that some items just never get above 5k but idk if thats just confirmation bias and me being unlucky as different days seem to clearly have a different distribution or just a different set min/max limit

[smoky quarry]

Personally I don't like the idea of putting hotworks on perlica at all

it's just dumb

[cinder oxide]

The ranks generally follow the item unlock order with them improving every 4 items

[smoky quarry]

I'd do pulser x3 and xiranite gloves

[honest hill]

Pulsar seem better no

[drifting quest]

Im guessing

Er req is above xir gloves

Hence seal

[honest hill]

[smoky quarry]

cooked

[acoustic trellis]

by converting originite prime in arknights and spending them here somehow

[drifting quest]

Ill have to look into it later

[terse bramble]

is there any data that supports this or is it just from observation?

[gaunt mason]

should be 28% with a p0 tt, 29.6% with p1

[smoky quarry]

nobody suggested 💳 somehow

is this really gacha server?

[cinder oxide]

@terse bramble https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148vboNtOmL5Nr74Akt23FX9txRKByzSTEbBQmtPxKoU/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[acoustic trellis]

nah, my friends are js poor so i don't assume everyone has money to do so

[cinder oxide]

Community effort over in #elastic-goods-trading-na-eu

My understanding is all items likely have a determined ave

But then throughout the week they increase the standard deviation of whatever randomiser they use

That's my assumption

It leads to high volume days having the lowest lows and the highest highs

Meanwhile mon-tues has pathetic prices

The new Chubby Lungs fit into the mid tier goods catergory

So you'll see max prices hovering max 5k

But off course outlier prices beyond the soft limit definitely exist due to how distributions work

Highly unlikely but still possible

[smoky quarry]

And what benefit can be derived from this knowledge?

[cinder oxide]

So assuming the prices are determined following a normal distribution, its statistically likely that a friend's list will contain at least 1 individual with around 2.33 units of standard deviation.

[cinder oxide]

Mainly we can mathematically determine the most optimal selling price for any given friends list

[terse bramble]

i see

[cinder oxide]

As by math, at least 1 person will be around 2.33 standev off the average good price

This is most helpful on Fri-Sun which has the highest ranges

[terse bramble]

yeah, i made a script a while ago to optimize buying/selling based on the rules/sampled distribution i assumed of how it works

shouldnt be too hard to adapt to these new rules i think

[cinder oxide]

Do you have a dataset for fridays to sun

For all 3 good tiers?

[terse bramble]

i have a week worth of data for all items before 1.1

who made this sheet

can send it to them

[cinder oxide]

Some guy from #elastic-goods-trading-na-eu

@manic beacon I think

Oops

Didnt mean to ping him

[smoky quarry]

Are we theorycrafting stock market now?

[cinder oxide]

It is number crunching no?

I'd consider it an advanced game mechanic

[smoky quarry]

[smoky quarry]

more like elite ball knowledge

[cinder oxide]

@terse bramble https://endfield-stock-prices.vercel.app/

Btw we got a community thing in the works u can contribute if u want to

[chilly bolt]

It's funny the prices were super high 1st week after game launch

[manic beacon]

[terse bramble]

o yeah i was checking the channel and i just saw that

[manic beacon]

neato, was about to redirect em to this

[cinder oxide]

Ayyy tks for the math bro

[manic beacon]

more data samples appreciated

[cinder oxide]

@manic beacon Also I'm gonna be working on finding optimal sell prices based on standev and normal distributions

[manic beacon]

[terse bramble]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vhyHjjbzaSmpioSDx1vRmrX6tUt7o8VerNZUVeef3uQ/edit?usp=sharing

another weird thing i noticed is that some rounded values are extremely common for no reason

[cinder oxide]

Holy tracking

[chilly bolt]

I can confirm this

[cinder oxide]

That's true. Might be a hidden modifier

[manic beacon]

I've noticed as well lmao

[cinder oxide]

Mind if I borrow your data set to determine optimal sell price?

[terse bramble]

hmm so given that items are classified in different tiers, low tiers from both regions should share the same distribution right?

[terse bramble]

go for it

[cinder oxide]

Imma just do it for goods based on tiering and only for high volume days tks

[violet rose]

ahh i see why he put hw on perlica, scales extra arts dmg taken

[terse bramble]

i also made this a while ago but this assumes all items have the same distribution
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d3OU2TIYSvgzOg4fKQzRHXg1wfyjc0x10330qU8c7eM/edit?usp=sharing

[cinder oxide]

Will have to be adapted for the new info I suppose

[terse bramble]

yeah

[cinder oxide]

Yep your data generally aligns with what we saw regarding good tiers

Good to have extra confirmation

[rare zodiac]

Question is why not pluser

[chilly bolt]

The idea is you can use seal for ult gain

[violet rose]

i think the redeemer ult

[chilly bolt]

But honestly im not sure how nice is it, as i never have problem of needing more than 1 ult

[rare zodiac]

It’s depends on rot imo, whereas redeemer UGE is needed over Xiranite Glove

[edgy crater]

for surtr?

[chilly bolt]

Lr tt team

[rare zodiac]

Nah the perlica HW redeemer seal build

[edgy crater]

oh, back to sleep again

[chilly bolt]

Hnaf when he sees tt mentioned

[edgy crater]

n trust ill get p5 pog on rossie instead her or tang2

[modern ether]

Does anyone know if the physical damage dealt from Li Feng's signature is reflected on the stat screen, or is it only during combat that it applies? Would love to know how Li Feng compares to my Pog by default as currently built.

[edgy crater]

@tight haven u up?

[tight haven]

hi

im free wsg

[edgy crater]

lifeng question

[tight haven]

mhm

[rare zodiac]

What do you mean reflected on the stat screen?

Kinda not understanding the question

[tight haven]

which stat are you looking at?

the second line?

or the vs vulnerable line?

[rare zodiac]

Man ask a question and disappear

[edgy crater]

oh damn, pinging enion with no reason then

[honest hill]

can u one shot rhodagn w cs

[modern ether]

The second one on his signature weapon, yeah. Does not seem to be reflected anywhere on the main stat screen, unless I am missing something.

[tight haven]

hold on

[chilly bolt]

With lr? Yes

[honest hill]

just w her CS

is that possible

I mean at his lv

P2P2

[chilly bolt]

Yeah hnaf said he did 1m dmg bonk

[honest hill]

Rhodagn have like 2.3M HP

[tight haven]

it is indeed reflected on the attributes screen

[modern ether]

I will have to double check because Pog has the exact same bonus stat on his screen and he does not have it on his signature, which is throwing me off.

[tight haven]

i dont have never rest so i cant check

i do have laevs which has a similar 3rd line let me check that

yeah it should be reflected

[edgy crater]

nah, cant

[honest hill]

weak

[edgy crater]

still need ulti damage to finish him off

[honest hill]

smh

@chilly bolt lied to mee

[chilly bolt]

Wtf I've also been lied to

[feral fractal]

when do u use wulf ult on lae rotation

[edgy crater]

khang, i never said i one shot rhod with cs

only said i do 1m with lr cs

[chilly bolt]

[edgy crater]

[chilly bolt]

Whenever you feel like it honestly

[rare zodiac]

After Wulf CS, and fast, like real fast, so you can funnel 2 CS energy for the next ult

Forgor to mention that is p5

[chilly bolt]

https://b23.tv/8aMxQqt

[honest hill]

P5P5 ik

[hollow swan]

anyone do calcs for shatter teams? like an Estelle Alesh Endmin core. I've been playing Tangtang with them and its fun but idk how good it actually is compared to just running a team of buffers for her.

[cinder oxide]

@terse bramble So after some math Im starting to think my assumptions of it being a normal distribution is wrong

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vR2PTHmZDpYrJD8PzWxXWFXm5Cko7LAV7kTc40lWZYybhjZ8s9endkhKRhPt_xFidO7urnwVaQHVn3w/pubhtml

Cos the 99th percentile does not really align with most of what we see in practice

[terse bramble]

it does look like a normal distribution at least for the first 3 days, maybe it gets skewed by increasing the min/max values by a different amount on mid/high peak days? could be like a % value of the original min/max which i think might follow the behavior we see

[cinder oxide]

Yep it becomes more right skewed as the days go on.

[terse bramble]

yeah, like say for example if we do a +/- 25% and 50% (just giving random % values) it should look very similar

[pure spoke]

I wonder when we get powercreep so much we 1 tap rhodagn within 3 sec

[cinder oxide]

Yeah this is bogus I have no idea how it works

[summer flower]

What if it's just random within specific bounds?

Also was that testing off base price?

[cinder oxide]

Unlikely. There are too many concentrated prices between 2000-3500 and a lot more above 4000 than below 1000

[cinder oxide]

We're estimating off an average from a full friends list on a given day

[summer flower]

Have you plotted data?

[cinder oxide]

Quite a lot

[summer flower]

Have you plotted as % of base price?

[cinder oxide]

It looks like a normal bell curve but the right tail is far longer

[cinder oxide]

Lemme try that

[summer flower]

Next thing one could try is to plot change each day

[cinder oxide]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRzHQ1DCMIrKojclrpGZRK4OVOqYbgjuyOun-0ud0tFslrWByhcDRntMzy6nic0pSNXsMhZiWaM0VKr/pubhtml

Better but still not exactly correct

Whatever it is

Its not a normal distri

[summer flower]

I don't see it plotted

[cinder oxide]

Oh u want a plot gimme a moment

[summer flower]

If it's random float within bounds

[lost void]

Hello TC dc, asking performance for P5 Home on TT, how does it compare to all handguns?

[summer flower]

It might have bigger right side (over 100% one)

Could be just random change to price instead

[lost void]

This is my current team as well. I love how shatter rotation fits into tan tang 2x combo build up phase.

I use to have Gilb, Alesh,Estella, Endmin but I dropped EM now for TT.

[summer flower]

Hmmm...

[hollow swan]

you dropped Endmin? i feel like having his BS to shatter more often and trigger Alesh combo on cooldown is really nice. Also his atk buff is nice.

[summer flower]

Estella has shatter on solidification

Endmin can be replaced, unless you plan to crush with him

But might be better fitted da pan for that

Da pan's longer time between crush isn't an issue

In shatter comp

[lost void]

I pooled in shatter to Alesh/Estella instead of splitting it bet. Endmin and Alesh so I won't be mentally keeping track of several things happening during the fight.

Having Estella+Endmin+Alesh fighting over shatter consumption seems wanky on the rotations and with TT replacing EM I can build up cryo stacks first before shattering.

I just use vuln stacks now to arts sus since I have gilb during my nuke phase with TT+Alesh ult as both have 20 sec and sync in the entire ramp up.

[chilly bolt]

P5 bp weapon is 80% compared to p0 sig

[summer flower]

Hmmm

[drifting quest]

80% is sometimes generous

[lost void]

How does it compare to Wedge P's? I'm just few levels away from my BP before I can get my L40 items. Not sure if I should go all out for P5 Home Longing or just stay P4.

[drifting quest]

Othertimes can be closer

[hollow swan]

hmm yeah that makes sense. i guess what bothers me when is that Alesh combo has such a short cooldown and i want to be using it. i haven't nailed down a rotation really but i like being able to use endmin with alesh to shatter inbetween estelle combos to trigger alesh combo off cooldown.

honestly it might not math out in terms of SP required to do that

[summer flower]

@cinder oxide if it's less steep in middle of it

[hollow swan]

im probably just extending rotations

[chilly bolt]

Honestly i wouldn't bother with longing, brigand is just too good, im just using wedge for my tt until i have enough arsenal to guarantee brigand

[cinder oxide]

Wedge is going on Yvonne for me so no choice haha

[lost void]

What's good about Alesh ult is it has many use. If somewhere along the fight you need cryo stack you can use it particularly as finsher for multitarget stages for the SP recov.

[lost void]

I was having second thoughts on getting Glorious Memory because I already have Grand Vision on Endmin albeit P0 and slowly building Aspirant/Sundering Steel for Chen if it spooks me. I feel it would be better to get Rossi sig weapon on her if I will use GM instead.

[cinder oxide]

Idk at this point and I gotta take a break from thinking about it

[lost void]

Thing is I'm still lacking Yvonne 🙁 but I do have LR but never used her since I like how shatter gameplay works than dedicated cryo.

[summer flower]

Yea, no point worrying

[hollow swan]

thats true. also for Alesh ive been gearing him like this since the patch. the new gears fit him really well.

[edgy crater]

hmm aint u need some umti gain on him

[hollow swan]

idk tbh. i guess i depends on how you want to line up your rotation

i feel like having a longer rotation is worth it

[edgy crater]

if its close to standard shattered rot, need some ulti gain

but sure if u wanna do dat

[hollow swan]

its a weird thing with Alesh. i mentioned it already but his combo skill has a short cooldown and most teams i see don't take advantage of it. im trying to build around that.

[lost void]

I'm gonna try a dps/ finchaser build on him since I'm using P0 Thermite cutter currently since FC will favor a line up heavier on Cryo members such as soup+Alesh+Estella, since TT is my main cryo damager.

[hollow swan]

ya Finchaser is another factor for sure. i don't have thermite cutter.

i feel like finchaser is probably better for Tt as well

[lost void]

Estella+ 10 sec ulti+ Alesh 20 sec ulti is very flexible to insert as filler damage.

I was using GV on EM, Valiant on Estella + Thermite on Alesh since that comp focus more on phys damage but I guess switching to 5-star weapon on Estella+Alesh would improve the cryo damage output more.

[hollow swan]

i feel like the cryo dmg taken from finchaser is really strong for sure if your running Tangtang. and of course its more main stat for Alesh so his personal damage is surely better than with thermite cutter.

[drifting quest]

Net loss because no int, atk more valuable, requires committing to alesh bskill, etc

[hollow swan]

no int?

[drifting quest]

Alesh wants int, thermite doesnt provide either but int included would be a reason to bias it over therm

[hollow swan]

im not sure he wants int. playing around rare fins seems like suffering

[gritty briar]

hm

[edgy crater]

he does want like 600 int

[gritty briar]

i cant say grand vision?

what

[edgy crater]

grand vision

[hollow swan]

lol huh

[chilly bolt]

Grand vison

[gritty briar]

i tried it twice

what why

[chilly bolt]

I think json is not using english

[gritty briar]

surely i can reply to this one...

what

you have literally one message that i am just forbidden from replying to

[hollow swan]

for the rare fin chance right? im good on that. i don't think its worth the loss in his personal damage and dealing with the rng.

[summer flower]

I don't see message you are trying to reply to

[edgy crater]

yeah, rare fish turbo

[summer flower]

That might be issue

[gritty briar]

maybe he deleted it and my client lagged and kept it

[summer flower]

@hollow swan

[hollow swan]

yeah might be because i deleted the message yo uwere replying to

idk like rare fin is technically more damage in the form of motion value but i feel like you sacrifice of a lot of main stat to get there and you can't really plan your SP around an rng proc. seems better to avoid engaging with rare fin all together.

[edgy crater]

hes most of the time only exist as slave

[cinder oxide]

Does anyone have the math for p3 wedge > artzy p0 on yvonne?

[edgy crater]

so u either ultibot turbo or int maxing

[gritty briar]

simply gamble harder

[hollow swan]

thats fair i know what you mean. im not trying to build those teams though.

[edgy crater]

so dps alesh, sure then

[hollow swan]

right im interested in his like sub-dps potential and triggering his combo skill off cooldown.

no last rite or yvonne

i could get last rite from the selector but ive been holding off. her and lifeng are the two standard 6* im missing atm.

[paper sand]

are there yvonne team calcs? i wanna know how much worse the yvonne-xaihi-tangtang team is if the last slot is thermite alesh instead of stanza perlica

[chilly bolt]

You can simply test it, no?

Not like you need any investment on either of them

[smoky quarry]

Testing woudn't give accurate numbers

Like what, are you supposed to feel the difference?

[chilly bolt]

Yes

[paper sand]

i don't have them built

[chilly bolt]

Hmm too bad i dont have yvonne

[smoky quarry]

thermite should be stronger than stanza

[paper sand]

ive read someone say that the perlica team is stronger but i honestly have issues like sp and having to time perlis combo skill

[hollow swan]

how are you triggering Alesh combo skill in that team?

isn't yvonne ult final hit the only thing that willl trigger shatter?

[summer flower]

I might go back to perlica agyenna + some other duo gameplay

Easy to adjust for new pairings

[hollow swan]

the only other way to active thermite cutter would be getting a kill with his ult

[smoky quarry]

pairings?

[edgy crater]

well, with lr tang2, u can try dat silly perma freeze setup lol

https://www.vxbilibili.com/video/BV1oHwjzFEtA

[summer flower]

Instead of doing full team around something

You pair 2 operators as if it were full team

And you combine such pairings

[smoky quarry]

I just use

Main DPS - Sub Dps - Support/Caster/Vanguard - Support

[summer flower]

Avyenna perlica only need one SP used for their big damage

[smoky quarry]

works for me

[summer flower]

So you can pair with endmin Chen, or Chen da pan

[hollow swan]

that is an interesting way to think about it

[summer flower]

Sadly I don't think nobody did math of those kind of teams

[smoky quarry]

You are losing synergies in that case

[smoky quarry]

Pretty sure it's bad, cause supports are important

[summer flower]

In such team, I have sub DPS twice and DPs twice

And with Phys elec, perlica's gear is buffing both sides

[honest hill]

wtf

[smoky quarry]

I ended up designing this dumb team

[summer flower]

How it works?

[smoky quarry]

It's funny

[hollow swan]

i think i played a similar team

is it combustion focused?

[smoky quarry]

Wulfgard's execution deals 1,1k% of damage, that's a starter

Requires combustion or electrification

Both are available here

[hollow swan]

this is my Wulfgard focused team. very similar

[smoky quarry]

I can combine skills in this team in a different ways to get reactions I need

[summer flower]

Let's say you have endmin and Chen

And they deal benchmark damage

So that benchmark is 100%

[gritty briar]

what does the fluorite do here?

[summer flower]

How much damage you'll get from putting supports?

[smoky quarry]

pretty sure it's dps

cause wedge and first slot

[edgy crater]

whot?

[honest hill]

Rhodagn getting bullied

[summer flower]

Chilling

[hollow swan]

she does stacking of nature for big combustion and some personal dps

[summer flower]

What's difference in Phys team without lifeng Vs with lifeng?

[gritty briar]

i thought big combustion wouldn't matter to wulfgard cause he just eats it

[summer flower]

Like how much % is there from them being in that team?

[smoky quarry]

Hard to say, link by itself is already +30% to crush

[gritty briar]

i guess if it's an arts intensity wulf and you wait till the very last second to consume, but that sounds like a waste of time

[summer flower]

Link isn't to crush itself i think

Link is to damage of skill that causes crush isn't that a case?

[smoky quarry]

oh, right

crush is secondary effect

[warped sorrel]

is he hit good?

[smoky quarry]

1.1k damage hits like a bus if the gearing is good

[hollow swan]

he doesn't need to conume the big combustion i think. he can consume the one from his ult though.

its hard to say because he's kinda low level but the team does well in daily content.

[smoky quarry]

Also you can quickly activate bonekrusha by using P5 ult trick

[rare zodiac]

no phys susc, less vul stack,

and some personal dmg

[summer flower]

How much Phys sucs that is?

[smoky quarry]

and no link

[hollow swan]

like at lvl 60 E3 its a solid daily team

[summer flower]

Less than 1/4th in place of where examples are shown

[rare zodiac]

still dmg

[summer flower]

Which both perlica and avyenna will have

[smoky quarry]

Depends on the set. You may be using valiant and xiranite, which will be 20%

[rare zodiac]

not a neglectable amount

[smoky quarry]

or you may use MB with swordmancer, and his damage share will jump to 35% or so

he is potent sub-dps

[summer flower]

Like, but is lifeng worth, over second carry pair?

[rare zodiac]

per in phys? what is the team here?

[summer flower]

Crusher/breacher+chen

[smoky quarry]

You can try, won't lose anything if you already have leveled chars

Actually, running livesplit test on rhodagn should show you how optimal the party is

[summer flower]

I was playing like that before

Only not playing it because ember feels good

[rare zodiac]

it lack every thing then

[summer flower]

What everything?

[smoky quarry]

LiveSplit is this speedrunner timer btw

handy thing

[rare zodiac]

it's split dmg, your bnnuy have only Per that buff her, chen sure can solo stacking vul but choose breach-you buff only chen dmg, choose crush-you both just raw dmg with next to zero buff

sure it can clear, just not optimal

[summer flower]

Let's assume rotation without breach

Would supports that you put as second pair more than double overall damage?

[gritty briar]

supports for who?

[summer flower]

Da pan, endim whatever

Not knowing which gear is Which on end axis is pain

[hollow swan]

man i really need to learn how to do my own calcs. is there any good guides for that?

[smoky quarry]

what's the average duration of the single rotation?

time-wise

20-30s?

[summer flower]

Good baseline is typical Cooldown on combo skill

Which is like what ? 15sec usually?

[hollow swan]

most combos are closer to 20s i think

[summer flower]

Definitely 30sec would be longer than usual rotation

[hollow swan]

or at least you'll likely have a character with a 20s combo

[summer flower]

Not all rotations require all combos

Did they test da pan with breach?

[rare zodiac]

kinda? support is pretty crack in this game because lots of multiplier bracket

[gritty briar]

kinda hard to say if we're banning breach. Pog would usually be one of them

[summer flower]

?

Banning breach?

[gritty briar]

.

[summer flower]

Ohh wait yea I was talking different context

[gritty briar]

oh

[summer flower]

But yea how much is even breach?

[bold rose]

Laev gear is still the same right?
just swap out tide armor for the new redeemer?

[gritty briar]

i've heard people say 44% pretty often if you stack arts int

[rare zodiac]

40 ish

[hollow swan]

stacking multipliers onto a single carry is kind of wild

[summer flower]

So it's not like itself it's gonna put you in double

Especially because breach pog suffers from low personal damage

[gritty briar]

there's also the thermite buff

[rare zodiac]

pog have atk% from talent and thermite too

[gritty briar]

and the extra sp too so you get your ults faster

[summer flower]

Okay, if you could put second Chen in team

Would it make sense?

Up to 40% personal damage according to sheet

[gritty briar]

no idea. who would even be the best to replace for a second chen?

[hollow swan]

i feel like you could make a dual carry team work well enough to trim bosses but it's probably not going to be better than the single carry + buffers team. id be interested in how big the difference is though.

[lost void]

it's different build since you will go ult eff with int+ult eff build.

[summer flower]

That's how I got my first trim

[hollow swan]

with what team?

[runic harness]

Do we kinda know what set Rossi would want?

[summer flower]

Endmin Chen, perlica avyenna

[hollow swan]

oh thats cool

[gritty briar]

i also kinda run kind of a split team normally but i know it would be better if i just focused on buffing one part

[lost void]

Da has massive cs cd reduc baked in his kit though and bulk of his damage is from max vuln stack+crush cs nuke.

[hollow swan]

Endmin does give an atk% buff i feel like people forget that

[summer flower]

Idea was hold da pan when first combo trigger goes of

Breach pog and then continue as normal da pan

With plan of getting fast 4 vunl for da pan crush

[hollow swan]

thats how i play da pan phys

[gritty briar]

like my story team is Endmin Perlica Xaihi Gil but i'm 100% aware that endmin could just be removed for anything remotely synergistic with arts and the team would be stronger for it

[unkempt belfry]

Hai

[gritty briar]

and xaihi is kinda just there for no reason too

[hollow swan]

first 4 stack vuln goes to pog and then two more 4 stacks to crush with da pan

[lost void]

the fire one, hot works(?) . or you can go phys set, bonekrusha or the other one giving something when there's no vuln stacks work with her quite well.

[oak vigil]

the ‘Avatar master of all 4 elements’ team build

[lost void]

Hmm.. thoughts, everyone?
https://youtu.be/fL1GzBLljBQ?si=6JLw5ISLk-jJ0y6T

[drifting quest]

its bait

bad TC, known set for some very specific pure speedrun timelines

not good for most people in typical rotations

[lost void]

There are certain thought provoking points. Primarily Tang is queen of dot right now so crit works on her superbly.

[drifting quest]

its not really true DoT

[modest thorn]

Absoltue 😢

[lost void]

But even with a single BS with a lower crit chance she can proc the MI set effect efficiently. More so with 2-3 waterspouts. Her ult is also dot.

[hollow swan]

its a multi hitting thing tho for sure right. so more opportunities to crit

[drifting quest]

ok so you have proc'd mi. now what?

[smoky quarry]

EVERYONE IS WRONG, LET ME TELL YOU HOW TO DO THIS RIGHT

Boy, do I hate content creators like that

[drifting quest]

i mean its clickbait to get views

[lost void]

higher crit chance and attack? Easier to reach almost acceptable crit chance floor rate or ceiling value.

[drifting quest]

and its working, evidently

its like the 10th time someone has asked. which is fine, this is how TC should be. people should question things and push new ideas

[lost void]

her bs and ult has per tick component meaning if all hits crit you benefit from crit damage.

[hollow swan]

does it bother anyone else the way they pronouce Tangtang like that drink mix from the 90s

[drifting quest]

the crit you actually build for isnt that high
the attack is good but isnt big enough to make a difference
so you are crutched on crit chance rng to get value
you have to then also bias towards fielding tt to maintain the set uptime, or you have to use skill repeatedly

[drifting quest]

this game has no crit damage that isnt in tangtang or rossi's kit

[outer ermine]

bro got lp and maygi working overtime

[drifting quest]

you are hard capped at 50% cd, or x1.5 on crit, on tangtang
which isnt bad, but it's not a good roi

[lost void]

As of yet, but once crit damage stat appears more on gear or a new operator provides such..

[drifting quest]

it can be a discussion when that happens

the video is suggesting crit tt is good, better than alternatives, now

with no crit damage

[hollow swan]

i hope we never get crit damage gear tbh

[drifting quest]

i very much agree

critslop would ruin the game for me personally, others might enjoy that

[lost void]

the reason why tang tang has lower side damage is similar to yvonne. since they are multi hit,.multi board damage increasing your crit chance will definitely increase overall damage per hit/tick.

[drifting quest]

what

[gritty briar]

yvonne also has crit damage

[rare zodiac]

a iirc that vid Soup only have 10% crit, 15% if max stack

[drifting quest]

yvonne builds crit because she has crit payoff

[rare zodiac]

so you only crit once in a blue moon

[drifting quest]

rossi will likely build crit because she has crit payoff

[lost void]

we all know crit-crit damage value on every game. crit damage value goes off the roof once you have acceptable crit chance and the higher your crit damage stat is you do not need to even need to pool in raw attack stats just to push damage to higher value.

[drifting quest]

some timelines build crit (perlica, etc) because they can reset cheese for good speedrun times in certain content

the same discussion happened for a while with laev

with some youtubers clickbaiting that crit laev was better than alternative sets

[lime nacelle]

Build crit on your Endmin, it pays off (trust).

[gritty briar]

anyways
What exactly do you lose on mi compared to the non-mi damage builds?
At a glance, it seems like mi gives stronger buffs if you proc the set.
Is activating the set effect a bad assumption or are the pieces that bad?

[drifting quest]

depends what mi pieces

[gritty briar]

and under a premise where you would onfield TT and could reliably proc mi set, would mi set still be worse?

[drifting quest]

even for main dps tt its worse outside of specific timelines

[gritty briar]

lets say the context is just the set from that video, used for tangtang

[lost void]

MI set performance would be poor on slow attackers slow attack time, but you need to pool in high crit chance on someone who has nuke with single instance of damage.

cause 1 hit nuke with low crit chance = pfft damage vs

a damage source that does 10 hits or more even with crit chance is lower side say 15-20%.

[drifting quest]

wait holy fuck what

i open the video to check the gear they rec

93million damage

how many rotations are they assuming

ok so they're on

[summer flower]

No man, here you gonna be told it's crit fishing to get crit gear for operator with 10 multihit same damage skills

[drifting quest]

0 cr pieces

giga crit fish

what

yeah okay this is unbelievable bait what

[summer flower]

Put crit gear with crit piece "crit fishing"

[lost void]

T here is the main dps.

[drifting quest]

they're on no crit gear, just mi set

so they're fishing the 10%

'dont worry tangtang skill can proc it all'
clip shows her not proccing it all

[summer flower]

Which one you talking about?

[drifting quest]

[lost void]

A skill that has 10 hits at 10% crit chance has higher chance to proc crit dmg vs a skill with 1 hit at 50%

[gritty briar]

yeah it's kinda funny seeing he drops it

[drifting quest]

the crit tt video that keeps getting posted

[summer flower]

Cause you said same about one with single crit piece

[drifting quest]

i thought it was running at least 1 crit piece

i was wrong

[gritty briar]

but lets say you do just barely manage to keep the set up, would it do more?

[drifting quest]

there's also like

[summer flower]

No different video to that one

[drifting quest]

off piece crit kit tt stuff that sucks, as an aside

[summer flower]

One posted regarding someone build

[drifting quest]

bk set w/ crit kit

[lost void]

crit rate=cdmg is calculated per hit.

[drifting quest]

correct

[kind grove]

hi! any calcs if surrendered steel or new bp weapon is better on chen?

[summer flower]

It's crit set crit gear

[drifting quest]

new bp weapon in most cases, can lose in some edge cases to sundering

~p3 bp weapon, particularly with new yinglung gear, is where it beats p5 sundering for typical timelines

[summer flower]

There are operators with single damage, they won't see reliable increase in damage

If damage is split in multiple instances with similar strength

[lost void]

so a skill with 4 hits at 25% crit chance is somewhat equal on a skill with 1 hit at 50% chance.

4 hit/ 25% : 5 hits/20%: 10 hits/10%: 1 hit/50%

[summer flower]

Then crit is reliable DPS increase

[kind grove]

new yinglung is the one that buffs ultimate right?

[rare zodiac]

10% crit with 50% cdmg is like 5% bonus

with rng

[drifting quest]

this isnt necessarily how it works, no

[summer flower]

4 hits with 20% crit chance is more likely to be average damage compared to single hit at same crit rate

[drifting quest]

you omit the required nuance in terms of multipliers, additional hits, mi proc, etc

[summer flower]

Hits

What additional hits you talking about?

[drifting quest]

plenty of abilities have an additional hit/multiplier that is bigger on the end, think like yvonne ult end

[lost void]

cause a 2 hit skill with 50% chance is=1 hit 50% chance

[summer flower]

Like I said

[drifting quest]

the hits are unbalanced in terms of damage

[summer flower]

Multiple instances of damage that are similar in strength

Is more reliable crit outcome

[lost void]

that's why you need to pump higher crit chance on her.

[rare zodiac]

yeah but no one is like that no?

[summer flower]

If you hit once with skill, then there is more variability between runs

[gritty briar]

yeah but downside is it's harder to get crazy outliers for funny speedrun clears

[drifting quest]

i struggle to think of a single unit who has a flat line damage profile, yes

[summer flower]

You want to crit fish?

You go with 5% crit chance

[lost void]

But since crit resist still doesn't exist on bosses then it is a reliable damage amplifier.

[drifting quest]

most have clear peaks and troughs in the damage profile

what does reliable damage amplifier mean

what is an unreliable damage amplifier

[rare zodiac]

10% doesn't sound reliable at all

[summer flower]

Tang tang seems to have quite flat

[drifting quest]

tangtangs definitely is not flat

[lost void]

I mean dumping raw stat will give stable amplified damage across period of time vs crit users relying on rng. But once you have acceptable crit chance your need of higher raw damage is offsetted.

[lost void]

for someone who does 1-2 hits

[summer flower]

? The non flatness I see is only in ultimate and basic attacks

[drifting quest]

skills are peaks, combo > skills higher, ult is the bigger one

she has downtime, troughs, between those

[lost void]

Bulk of T's damage comes from BS&Ult which does multihit/multiboard dmg.

[gritty briar]

well i think relatively speaking, it is more likely to get the average benefit of crit for something with multiple hits like laev ult, rather than something that's a single hit like perlica ult. A single hit ult would just be purely binary, either you gain way more or way less than the usual

which has it's pros and cons

[drifting quest]

you have different variance and expected values yes

[summer flower]

When I played in quest tang tang

[rare zodiac]

for now crit is just unreliable for non crit build in char, because it lack stat to reach a reasonable amount

[drifting quest]

potentially a tighter spread on someone like laev

[summer flower]

It felt like water sprouts where big part of damage

[drifting quest]

spouts are a big part of the damage yes

[lost void]

If most of your skills just do 2 -3 hits its better to focus on pumping raw stats.

[drifting quest]

but you dont have infinite spouts

[summer flower]

And aren't they as flat as comes regarding damage distribution?

[summer flower]

Laev good point, but Basic attack spread is what I would consider not ideal damage distribution

[gritty briar]

well it's just an example

[summer flower]

I would say tang tang has lower spread when it comes to damage than laev

[drifting quest]

No because the baseline would be ba spam

[lost void]

one can maintain 2-3. So you are wasting the per hit proc chance if you don't go crit build on her instead of the raw damage route.

[summer flower]

Basically it should be recorded clear, and then plotting damage instances

Or instead I guess end axis and plotting % attack?

[lost void]

Also operators BAtk seq sometimes have 4 or 5, T has 5. Not sure if there's somebody at 6+

[drifting quest]

If you have perma 2-3 spouts up I have to see the video

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

I was up keeping that in quest

[summer flicker]

wtf 93mil

[lost void]

Most of the T rotation use BS after 2 CS. Even for Brigand/Home.

[drifting quest]

Thats not perma spout

[gritty briar]

40 rhodagns of damage!

[summer flicker]

that's like 39 rohan

that's bullying

[drifting quest]

Thats 2-3 spouts per skill

Thats not permanent spout uptime

[summer flicker]

you cant perma sprout uptime

and why you want to 2 sprout anyway

[rare zodiac]

like 3s of sprouts every 20s, that is not perma at all

[summer flicker]

not gve you the full art sus

lower damage

more skill spent

that's like, suck

[summer flower]

Considered using more SP on tang tang?

[summer flicker]

how

the only sp you use is: xaihi (1 every 20s, or every 2 tt combo)

[lost void]

CS M3 has 12 sec CD.

[summer flicker]

gilb: 1 sp because you need corrosion

like you are hard cap on sp

[summer flower]

I did not have gilb in quest

[lost void]

Not unless your team has vanguard or somebody with SP recov/refund but most of build for cryo drops off Alesh to make spot fo Xaihi + Yvonne/LR.

[summer flower]

Anyway, gib me timeline for tang tang then

[summer flicker]

on maygi vid iirc

cuz i didnt make one for p0

let me screenshot that

you are hard cap on :tt combo, sp, etc

[pure spoke]

WHEN MI FU?

Im about to combust

[gritty briar]

never

she dies

[pure spoke]

[pure spoke]

She dies trying to save tang tang.

[summer flicker]

if you want to 1 tt skill every combo, that's like +200sp needed

[pure spoke]

That would be peak

[lost void]

1.2 part 1

[summer flicker]

alot of team cant afford 7 bs and you want tt team to do like 8 ~ 9 😭

[pure spoke]

What if we get myrtle in endfield. Sp powercreep

[lost void]

Because cryo team focus on LR/Yvonne not T. But if T is your main dps it would probably work.

[pure spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-myrtle-gif-11316187128699095682

[summer flicker]

? no coerlation

[summer flower]

Yea man, it's gonna be feeding everyone but tang tang sp

And they saying you cannot upkeep anything

[rare zodiac]

u see this?

[summer flicker]

huh?

ye we were discussing tt dps

crit build

[lost void]

If it's T, Xiahi and flex it will be a different story.

[summer flicker]

and why you cant keep uptime

[rare zodiac]

i was just tell then to see that it's literally tang dps rot

[summer flicker]

i was like, see what cuz i was ping maygidrool

[summer flicker]

so you want to feed tantang all the sp

and have no buff

no nothing then

kekw

[summer flower]

Xaihi has ultimate buff

[summer flicker]

then just tt solo at that point

BROOOOO

xaihi ult buff

is not that long

???

you ult once per rotation

[summer flower]

Like I care

[summer flicker]

this is tc channel

[summer flower]

It was talking about upkeep on thingies

Talk of possible or not

[summer flicker]

then just play solo tt

[summer flower]

Not talk of best play or not

[rare zodiac]

just why crit? you gonna sacrifice 100% BS dmg for 25% crit rate? 12.5% bonus dmg on average?

[lost void]

Arts amp+sus works solid on T crit build.

T & X synergy is pretty solid.

[summer flower]

You forgot attack % from set

[gritty briar]

well, the build actually doesn't have that much crit rate

[summer flicker]

maygi math out its not worth the crit

unless you speedrun or sth

[drifting quest]

Maygi was quite generous to crit set too from what I saw

[summer flicker]

she assume all uptime

kekw

[drifting quest]

[summer flicker]

except few sec in the beginning

and still worse

[drifting quest]

Laughtrack

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

If you wanna crit fish, you fish on 5%

Crit on tang tang is for average DMG up and attack %

[lost void]

Why would somebody settle on 5% though. I mean if you will commit to crit to a crit build then it's quite stupid to settle on a lower crit chance value even though there is a crit rate soft cap.

[summer flower]

If you don't invest in crit while crit fishing, it's biggest crit

[gritty briar]

speedruns

[summer flicker]

@outer ermine

[gritty briar]

if you only care about your best run, the unlucky runs dont matter

[summer flower]

Single big damage instance focys

And if you don't crit you start again

[summer flicker]

the speedrun mindset

critfishing

[gritty briar]

the runs that get reset due to bad rng aren't real!

[summer flower]

Yea, but sadly if you build crit and you aren't crit fishing, you get called as if you were

If you just want average damage be increased and get attack %

You'll be told it's crit fishing

[drifting quest]

this whole discussion is off the back of a 10% cr tangtang build

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

Ehh.. I seen different one with single crit piece

[lost void]

Does it matter for fastest clear time though? I mean the game doesn't reward you for finishing the stage with 5 sec vs 1 min or 2min aside from trim medal?

[summer flicker]

crit not worth it

[summer flower]

Was good uptake of stacks

Like really hood

[drifting quest]

both are going to be mid

[rare zodiac]

then lose 50% bs DMG

[drifting quest]

the more crit you add the more consistent it is, but the more dmg% you lose, and potentially some attribute

[summer flower]

What % of damage is in BS?

[gritty briar]

nothing matters if you think about it too hard

[summer flower]

Goal should be constant 5 stacks

[drifting quest]

mi scope is agi int
mi kit is int agi
so you lose out in both cases with no str

[lost void]

It's only for flexing. But maybe if the game has leader board for fastest clear with better rewards, it's a different matter then.

[summer flicker]

[gritty briar]

if you want to make the argument it doesn't matter,i could argue nothing you've ever tc'd has ever mattered because i've cleared with far worse.
Whether something is needed by the game is never the point in this channel.

[summer flower]

That looks strange as heck

[gritty briar]

i think it's pointlessly dismissive to say something doesn't matter because the game doesn't require you to do it. game barely requires shit so it's just a nothing statement

[echo cove]

Then u r free to test it urself and report ur finding?

[summer flicker]

we are in tc, we are min maxxer

[summer flower]

Wasn't there cape for crit chance?

[summer flicker]

[summer flower]

I don't have tang tang

[summer flicker]

would be worse

😭

[summer flower]

Maybe go yourself and send me money

[summer flicker]

you can read and she assume

[edgy crater]

striker get 96cr on p5 yvonne i think

[summer flicker]

all rotation, except the first few basic attack,

she go all in in the 10% crit, and result comes out worse

[summer flower]

Yea what stats is crit chests from crit set?

[summer flicker]

you need a ult gain chest

[rare zodiac]

that is like the best outcome of mi too

[summer flicker]

unless you do 8 skill rotation

which is sub optimal

kekw

[drifting quest]

there's an uge mi sec chest but it has bad attributes

[rare zodiac]

rng can even fuk us futher with 10% crit

[lost void]

her BS is only fier to proc the MI 5 stacks?

[summer flicker]

her basic attack multihit

[drifting quest]

the only good attribute mi sec chest is arts intensity

[lost void]

yes

[summer flower]

I was asking for stats for crit chest in crit set

[summer flicker]

you can uptime up there, mostly

[rare zodiac]

Maygi is assuming full stack all time

[summer flower]

What attributes?

Wiki doesn't have list as far as I'm aware

Not sure where I can find list

[summer flicker]

agi int

subpar choice

[drifting quest]

https://warfarin.wiki/en/gear

[summer flower]

Thanks

[chilly bolt]

We have warf wiki

[lost void]

She can probably do more than 10 hits with 5x BA string. I am not using MI Set.

[outer ermine]

im glad we dont have to critfish w lr now w tt around

[summer flower]

Okay, it seems crit set is copium for tang tang

[summer flicker]

[summer flicker]

always has been

[outer ermine]

ard crit was some fucked up shit

[summer flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[drifting quest]

it exists for some very niche very short speedrun timelines

always has since day 1

[summer flower]

Attributes distribution

[summer flicker]

ye not suprising since you do less combo in short time line -> the bonecrusher set doesnt proc and useful as much

[drifting quest]

yeah its quite literally

you never get to bk proc lmao

[lost void]

Have you considered crit proc average on calculation on spread sheet though? crit proc chance means?

[drifting quest]

most crit calcs are inherently flawed in a way that can bias their value

[summer flower]

How flawed?

[drifting quest]

you see things like flat multiplier increases (1.5x(crit chance) just applied to final damage

[lost void]

Crit is like winning a lottery or sweepstakes. more entries means bigger chances

[drifting quest]

ive yet to see a proper crit sim

'proper'

[summer flower]

How would proper crit SIM look like?

[drifting quest]

monte carlo simulation program

coded in python or something

[summer flower]

The what?

[gritty briar]

there's kinda not a need for a super precise average damage from crit, because if the value is close enough, the bias the user has for wanting more/less consistency is going to be the final determining factor

[drifting quest]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method

[edgy crater]

[chilly bolt]

oh no maths

[edgy crater]

why da heck it involves into statistics topic

[lost void]

It's kinda hard to count but T's third BAtk seq has the most hits.
Batk 1 = 1 board dmg
Batk 2 = 2 board dmg
Batk3= definitely 5+
Batk4= 3 board dmg
Batk 5 final= 1 board

[drifting quest]

this is before we get into things like deterministic crit rate

[summer flower]

What would be benefit of that?

[drifting quest]

more accurate representation of crit

[summer flower]

Do we know how crit is determined?

[drifting quest]

no

[edgy crater]

w8, endfield has deterministic crit?

[outer ermine]

no more of those sheets goddamn

[drifting quest]

we dont know

[summer flicker]

crit is not as simple as: 1.5x dmg since you dont have infinite damage and time

'

[summer flower]

I don't think they are using lava lamps for crits

[drifting quest]

the expectation is its pseudo random

which is the norm

[summer flower]

It should be on Average that

Within infinite amount of runs it should be that

[summer flicker]

ye most assume like 70% crit rate is: 70% x 1.5xdmg + 30% x normal dmg

but well, we dont do infinite amount of runs or dmg do we

[gritty briar]

it only really needs to be a rough approximation. if two options, a crit buff and a damage buff, are approximately close enough on average, the nuance of what the user wants is going to determine it. Not whether it's 0.1% more on average.

[lost void]

I guess tc math crafters try too avoid crit since it is to reliant on chances.
You have to consider law of averages.

[drifting quest]

we still tc crit

we just do it in an objectively bad way

for convenience

[gritty briar]

good enough

[indigo pine]

crit math should always be average unless u have huge nuke dmg like last rite and u are appealing to people who would willingly spend hours resetting just to flex a fast time

[summer flower]

Expected crits calculation instead?

[drifting quest]

you either assume infinite timeline for average value and mult off that

or you preset some samples and use those

[summer flower]

If crit chance * times DMG instance appears < 100% then ignore

[drifting quest]

i know when ive done crit calcs i just did like 50-100 samples

that was single instance calc though

not entire rotation

[lost void]

I think it's easier to compute by considering 100% crit crit rate first then, 50% then 25% then 12.5%. Next would be 20% then 10

[indigo pine]

some people have gotten upset at some of my calcs in another game for not valuing a crit dmg buff (where most characters cant get more than 5-20% crit rate) and the burst in question is a 9-hit attack, because "crit dmg means u can high roll and get a high score"

[drifting quest]

some people would ask for min, avg and max

which isnt the worst idea

but is extra effort

[gritty briar]

there's just always some subjectivity and nuance to how much an individual person would value crit

[summer flower]

Not much Extra effort tho

[lost void]

Crit rate=crit dmg is mostly sought after for hardcore gamers and pushing for that stat since it has been proven time time again of its value.

[summer flower]

It's two calculations extra