theorycrafting

[gritty briar]

the foodless part makes a massive difference

[edgy crater]

whos the dps here

[summer flower]

ehh should be shatter working for that

[gritty briar]

if i use food i'll cringe cause then people will tell me catcher could've solo'd it

[regal fractal]

Predictions on next 4star char release

And when

[gritty briar]

practically everyone except akekuri

which is why my materials are fucked

they're almost an even split of the damage

[summer flower]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-tm-soon-space-gif-23401891

[regal fractal]

Loll

4star or nuclear warfare

[edgy crater]

damn, dats like pysical reso req

[regal fractal]

(GTA VI not even mentioned)

[gritty briar]

there's just not enough supporting to go around for 1 person to hypercarry
they all gotta pitch in

[pure spoke]

Just do a catcher without food buff solo rhodogan ez

I dont even know if chen can solo rhodogan without food

[regal fractal]

120s

Catcher will hit a solid like 10 parries

If that

[gritty briar]

catcher is mostly basic attacks really

my sp is mostly used with fluorite to buildup stacks for estella shatters

[edgy crater]

she can, but how long

[regal fractal]

Ah basic attacks I kinda forgot

[gritty briar]

fluorite damage is actually pretty decent relative to the team

[pure spoke]

I mean trim tho

[regal fractal]

I wanna dps rossi

[gritty briar]

sounds like you should give it a try!

[regal fractal]

That was my like goal from day3

Now shes looking ass and I'm regretting it

[pure spoke]

If i say solo i always mean trimmed tho. Because every op can solo rhodogan

[pure spoke]

Ok booting up

[regal fractal]

0 star solo rhodagn

[gritty briar]

food is such a massive buff and it's kinda bigger for the 4 star damage dealers cause of how fucked their build options are

[pure spoke]

I have a maxed out chen so lets see

[gritty briar]

cause their atk is really low and there's not much buffing aside from thermite so ginseng would've been huge

and ult charge food would also be huge

[regal fractal]

Ngl my team is super ass but it worked so I haven't done anything to ti since

[edgy crater]

try snowshine like me

[regal fractal]

Idk if I should invest now

Or just save for a future character or soemthing

[pure spoke]

I did. But she isnt fully build xd

[gritty briar]

you don't know how cursed gearing and equipment can be until you've seen DPS fluorite and estella

[edgy crater]

show it

[gritty briar]

None of the set effects that are good for Fluorite give any agility.
Like hotwork is just int mostly

Estella's weapon choices are ass

[pure spoke]

I gave up on snowshine after wasting all my resources on th3 garbage 4 star greatsword

[edgy crater]

[regal fractal]

Holy

[warm galleon]

Dat 450% counter

[gritty briar]

she either gets OBJ, which is weak just due to 5 star stats
Or Jet, which is so unoptimized for her that the passive completely doesn't matter. You would just want jet for raw stats and the atk%

Jet is still a bit better but unfortunately i don't have

[edgy crater]

its still funny seeing snowshine got 50k crit on her parry

[gritty briar]

At least catcher has some real build options that match his stats

but like wtf is the intended gearing for fluorite?

[edgy crater]

json, on ur challenge, is it only op rarity?

[gritty briar]

and no food

[warm galleon]

A Xaihi with Stanza

That's her gear

[edgy crater]

ah ok2, dats kinda cursed

[regal fractal]

Is stanza like OP ash over deto unit or something

[gritty briar]

They're not fully built yet so i'm just kinda hoping i get enough mats to make a difference before patch ends

[regal fractal]

Idk what it does smh

[regal fractal]

Gl

[edgy crater]

both good, its just depend on team

[gritty briar]

anyways estella would go so hard if they ever made something like a spear grand vision

[proud vector]

she can barely use her own signature

its quite saddening

[pure spoke]

did u guys know estelles BS is super long range?

[proud vector]

she has a talent for it yea

[regal fractal]

How super are we talking

[pure spoke]

i always thought ti was just close range lol

[regal fractal]

I know its long

[pure spoke]

like 100 meter

[gritty briar]

yeah she like shoots an ice shot

[regal fractal]

That far??

[pure spoke]

maybe few meters less

[regal fractal]

I thought it was like 20

[proud vector]

its a projectile technically xD

[warm galleon]

I wish yvon ult has more range, and not a force swap
Tangtang mains would not like that.

[regal fractal]

Estella is an esniper bro

[pure spoke]

i was just joking tho. i actually dont know the max range

[regal fractal]

Its not too bad

Surely everything already been used before the ult

How viable is solo dps tangtang/rossi looking?

If I dont have yvonne

[dawn patrol]

we don't know yet but rossi is looking dire

[gritty briar]

i mean we can't really predict their dps potential with literally no numbers

[dawn patrol]

tangtang looks better but we have no numbers so we just don't know

[regal fractal]

Pray rossi gets unholy numbers

[dawn patrol]

5000% ult scale

[proud vector]

not 100 meters

[warm galleon]

At p5 yes ||LIES||

[proud vector]

but pretty good range

[regal fractal]

And then endmin p5 gives lupos ult damage boost ofc

[gritty briar]

give me a real 6 star estella weapon with atk% and arts intensity hg

give me agility gear for fluorite with a passive that actually works with her

[proud vector]

willpower spear unit

[warm galleon]

The fact that p5 starry is the only way to cap Xaihi's int, it may not be as good

[regal fractal]

Or just give a real 4 star dps

[valid palm]

it's so fucked that her own 5 star sig doesn't even work properly

[regal fractal]

That is self sufficient

[valid palm]

You get damage buff while the enemy is still Solidified, AKA it doesn't apply to her Shatter.

[pure spoke]

around 2:18 solo chen without buff food. but i fked up 1 BS

[gritty briar]

there's also not many real ways to get arts int and will at the same time so estella shatters are mostly fucked by gear

hg just neglected them when making gear sets

[regal fractal]

Basically better than my attempts at no food full teams

[warm galleon]

Is the red gear an upgrade after you max artificing, or is it a new gear?

[valid palm]

Yeah Estella's biggest weakness is gear. However, I feel like it's inevitable that we will get Will + Arts Intensity gear at some point even by happenstance, in which case Estella will get a lot better

[valid palm]

new options

[edgy crater]

more like sidegrade

[valid palm]

same sets too, just different stat combos for the same sets

[gritty briar]

yeah there's at least some hope for her for the future

future gear will fix her surely...

[pure spoke]

i assume your main dps isnt maxed out tho

[regal fractal]

What is maxed out

[pure spoke]

everything

[warm galleon]

M12

9/9/9

[regal fractal]

I dont have weapon dupes

So no ig

[edgy crater]

just have

[regal fractal]

Dont have anything past p2 since endmin

[valid palm]

Fluorite also is kind of waiting to get a supportive gear set she works with, but also a supportive weapon. However, she also really needs one of those to have a strong combo skill CDR effect (like Frontiers, but preferably stronger, and not completely useless on her otherwise lol)

Unfortunately she has to wait for new sets entirely, but there's a chance that Estella might get hear gear fixes this patch since she really just needs better stats with the already existing gear sets

[warm galleon]

So we're finally getting Slab with main stat

[regal fractal]

Nah, they avoid

We getting slab with nothingggg

[edgy crater]

slab with str/agi as main stat

[shrewd patrol]

What do you guys think would be Tangtang's BIS weapon?

Aside from her sig

[dry kindle]

Sig.

Or cope bp weapon isnt horrible

Or wedge and go dps tangtang 🗣️

[shrewd patrol]

I'm thinking that as well

[honest hill]

BP wep because only other option would be obj

[shrewd patrol]

Guess I'll just farm for Rite Masteries

[valid palm]

I mean it's kind of impossible to guess weapons until we know what stats she scales with, but just based on kit alone... literally none of the current options do anything for her besides Wedge

Like if she happens to be Intellect (that would be extremely ironic), technically Yvonne's sig could work

but like

at that point just pull Tangtang's sig instead

Actually, does Navigator require the user to apply Solidification? Or just anybody in the part?

[gritty briar]

yeah her rotations are so ass with her cooldown. I could kinda cope with the less frequent combo skills if i had more ults to compensate, but ult charge gear is also kinda cursed for her. Cursed to always have wrong set or no agility

her ult being an above average cost while also not being able to combo often is just annoying

[valid palm]

Because if it's the latter, you could theoretically put Navigator on Tangtang in Yvonne teams, but not Last Rite teams (if she happens to be Intellect. Which, again, feels unlikely :P)

[gritty briar]

Like fluorite has a base 100 ult cost with a -10% pot
For comparison, a lot of ops like Perlica only need 80 base and have a -15% pot and use their combo twice as often so they get more energy too

this is just fucked up

[valid palm]

I'm like 90% sure Arts Bursts don't count as Arts Reactions, but if I'm wrong she might be able to use Opus

[gritty briar]

pretty sure they don't

[plucky warren]

They count at arts inflictions

[valid palm]

yeah

[valid zealot]

There can be only one Akekuri-level of power/cost.

[plucky warren]

Reaction is specifically stuff like combustion, solidification etc

[drifting berry]

They made sure Fluorite was release on a non usable state

[valid palm]

So you could only hope to use Opus in Yvonne teams if you commit to making Tangtang the one applying all of your Solidifications with Gilberta

[gritty briar]

all the agility gear is either phys stuff or like combo skill stuff

this shit is so evil

[plucky warren]

Trust in new gear finally having non-phys agi stuff

[gritty briar]

it's like they designed all the agility stuff for guards and forgot fluorite exists

[pure spoke]

i cant get lower than 2:10 rhodogan :(((

[valid palm]

Honestly, it looks like they expected her to run Type 50 Yinglung, but even then it's imperfect

and she, uh

[honest hill]

what team

[valid palm]

doesn't deal enough damage to justify it anyway

[mortal trellis]

what does your team look like?

[honest hill]

You can always cheat w a food buff

[pure spoke]

oh im trying solo chen without food buff

[mortal trellis]

[pure spoke]

we were talking about that like 1 h ago

[mortal trellis]

only vid i remember seeing chen solo trim on she was using grand vision but that might be some slop i dont actually know

[honest hill]

keep trying

P5 ur sundering

[valid palm]

I also don't think the new gear will help Fluorite very much anyway, tbh. They didn't show any new sets, only new gear for current sets.

[pure spoke]

i dont have sundering

[honest hill]

rapid?

[pure spoke]

ye

[valid palm]

and even if you fix the stat issue so that she has options that aren't useless, she doesn't really have like any good sets to pick from

[mortal trellis]

what gear does chen even run in a solo

[honest hill]

4pc swordmancer

[mortal trellis]

huh

interesting

[pure spoke]

p5 sundering probably can trimmed rhodogan

[valid palm]

Most things straight up don't work with her kit, and the like 2 sets that do are all focused on personal damage, which doesn't actually make her much better

[honest hill]

P5 sundering better than all other 6* at their P0

[pure spoke]

ye like 10% more dps as solo chen rapid

[honest hill]

good thing P5 a 5* only cost a 10 pull

[pure spoke]

maybe if i crit everything i can make sub2 min oof

[pure spoke]

i have p3 rn

[honest hill]

nice

[pure spoke]

but i dont wanna build and max essence for it

[honest hill]

u shoudl

or no trim

[pure spoke]

i have max essence rapid ascent rn

[valid palm]

Do you know if her P1 6 star is better than P5 Sundering, or does it have to be like P2

[pure spoke]

[gritty briar]

i mean better gear probably wouldn't make fluorite good but i think there's a lot of room for improvement so i'd probably feel it
The bar has just been set very low for her

[honest hill]

I think it has to be P2 minimum

[gritty briar]

from being a crippled character with no legs to 1 leg

[honest hill]

from what someone told me a long time ago

P2 might be slightly better than P5

P3 def better than P5

[valid palm]

P4 Sundering is already > P0 Ascent, so it makes sense that P5 and P1 are roughly equivalent

[pure spoke]

probably p2+

[honest hill]

How u check this

new feature right

[pure spoke]

always has been ingame

[honest hill]

never seen before

[mortal trellis]

its been a feature

[honest hill]

can u show how to access it

[mortal trellis]

at the top right

yea

[honest hill]

ohh okay

[mortal trellis]

you can also see in database

its a pretty weird thing that like nobody knows about

[pure spoke]

i didnt know that

[mortal trellis]

[honest hill]

I thought it was new

[valid palm]

neat

[mortal trellis]

i just kinda shrugged it off as niche but useless info cause you can just wiki it instead

[pure spoke]

m3 cope for sub 2 min?

[mortal trellis]

surely

i mean m1 > m3 is like 15% more scaling no?

[pure spoke]

actually havinbg 1 sec less cd for combo could have given me more time for chen ult at stagger

[mortal trellis]

it'd probably shave off a few seconds from the average run

oh yeah also the cd breakpoint

[pure spoke]

lowke i think that could make it sub 2 min

because rn i start with chen ult so i can barely have enough ult recharge when he is staggered

like i dont even do first hit i just do ult immediantly its that tight

[mortal trellis]

how fucking slow would a pog solo be, i dont even see anyone try

probably miserable

[pure spoke]

i did

it was like 4 min

not that bad

its faster than solo endmin

[mortal trellis]

hm

really lol

were you using thermite or never rest

[pure spoke]

ye because solo endmin is just pure dogshit. cant proc any combo or crush ebsides 1 vul

[pure spoke]

neverest

[mortal trellis]

idk how crush scaling works from 1/2/3/4 stacks cause ive only looked at 4 stack numbers

[pure spoke]

and normal attack of endmin is rlly ass too

[mortal trellis]

i can only assume its dogshit though

[pure spoke]

i wasnt running optimized solo endmin gear tho

or maybe i was

i was using chens 4 swordmancer max articify

[mortal trellis]

im gonna go try solo pog with just his bum hotwork/xiranite mix

[valid palm]

Are any of the endgame combat rewards limited time (including trimmings and stuff)? My team isn't fully built yet, and I kinda don't want to do it until they add the 'start with full health and ult' fix next patch 🫠

[pure spoke]

i did full BS gearset

seems like pogs main dmg is his BS in solorun

everything else just doesnt do dmg

[mortal trellis]

i was gonna say not even his cs but i forgot that assumes he has 4 stacks lmao

his ult does decent damage tho, have you tried a mix of ult charge + ult dmg?

[pure spoke]

i didnt

[mortal trellis]

or is the sp drought too much

[pure spoke]

i didnt try that many runs with pog tho

[mortal trellis]

hm idt i have any gear for it but i can try, i do only have p0 thermite though so it'll be kinda ass

[pure spoke]

kinda ass to trigger his ult solo

[mortal trellis]

wait what if he's a lynx slab slopper

or is that just cope

[pure spoke]

try it

[twilit quail]

if you want to mald solo for some reason you gotta put on the slabs

yes

[pure spoke]

no clue xD

[mortal trellis]

fuck man i dont want to have lynx slabs in my account

[twilit quail]

no reason to not use it

[mortal trellis]

i just irrationally hate them as a bit lol

[twilit quail]

if you REALLY want to mald it's 3x crit and a slab

[pure spoke]

slab on endmin was ass tho. idk why ppl like slab so much

[mortal trellis]

sounds miserable

[pure spoke]

someone told me to articify it to level 3. i did and now i hate it

[mortal trellis]

ik casual players like it cause they can get 10k atk on their op screen

[drifting berry]

Slab is really good because ATK number goes up

[mortal trellis]

permanent account damage

[terse valley]

people putting slab on endmin doesnt know how crush work

[mortal trellis]

lol

i mean when i first started i specced da pan into combo skill damage

[pure spoke]

well i put it on solo endminc crush. cant even crush beyond 1 vul

[terse valley]

your doing solo runs that's a whole different issue gng

[pure spoke]

ye

[mortal trellis]

i want to try something really stupid actually

batk scaling dive attack spam

[pure spoke]

would be funny if we get dive attack gear

[proud vector]

horriffic

[valid palm]

Slab is going to go crazy once they release a Will/Intellect DPS

[mortal trellis]

hey now..

hear me out

[proud vector]

terrifying

[mortal trellis]

true, maybe they release some in the red gear to work w/ tangtang's ult

its kinda cope tho cause you just do it once

i was actually so excited when they revealed her ult interacts with dive attacks

[twilit quail]

dive every 20s to get +15% atk

saved

[mortal trellis]

like why do they have such high scaling

[valid palm]

Dive attack spam would need heavy doses of free SP/stagger in their kit and/or gear in order to work

Since you're missing out on Final Strikes entirely

[mortal trellis]

yeah im only considering it for solo

cause sp is kinda bum if my solo operator is pogranichnik

[valid palm]

That's why I think any kind of dive attack characters are probably going to be like Tangtang's

'use it once in a while at a certain timing to get a big benefit'

and not actual spam, like with Genshin Xiao or whatever

[mortal trellis]

yeah i do wish they added more stuff to do other than hold m1 if youre not using a bs/cs/ult

someone suggested heavies to me but i feel if it doesn't give sp then nobody would use it

and if it gave sp then it'd have to be the perfect amount otherwise people would just spam it and never batk sequence

[mystic halo]

realistically they need to be tied to mechanics yes

like tangtang

[valid palm]

I think that's because Endfield's combat just

isn't supposed to be a traditional action game

[mortal trellis]

i wanna say it almost feels turn based but i think i'll get crucified for that

[valid palm]

You wouldn't

Because you're right lol

[mortal trellis]

damn

[proud vector]

you absolutely would not lol

[terse valley]

an actual dive dps will have some way leading them into the air like bskill or combo, instead of just jumping normally

[proud vector]

SP and cooldowns bottleneck all rotations at some point

[twilit quail]

I mean this game isnt fundamentally different from the other big 3d games really

it just gives the illusion of being that way

[valid palm]

Endfield is basically spoonfeeding ATB turn-based combat broccoli to actionslop-addicted ADHD gacha gamers

[pure spoke]

i wanna kms 33 left

[valid palm]

Wrapping it in QTE cheese so they take their pills

[mortal trellis]

LMAO

wait thats so true though

[proud vector]

Cheesy broccoli mmmmm

[mortal trellis]

maybe its because all 3 of my gachas were hella slow paced that i dont have many complaints for ef's combat, i remember early in the launch people would just whine that its "hold m1 sim"

then again their teams also didnt have a vg

[mortal trellis]

do you already have t3 pass

[pure spoke]

t3 pass?

[modern swift]

They should nerf dodging, no cooldown + infinite i frame is wild

[mortal trellis]

the paid tier one mb

[pure spoke]

oh bp. ye i used all the crates

[mortal trellis]

[pure spoke]

also no sanity pots left. i used 800 sanity today

[mortal trellis]

i dont even dodge to dodge, i dodge to anim cancel

[valid palm]

The skill system is just an ATB bar (SP returns are even calculated in respect to time, not 100 point SP).

The combo system rewards intelligent team building and performing your attacks in a certain order to chain them properly.

The actual action of the system is intentionally streamlined and simplified (moving around is usually minimal, and 90% of your 'moment to moment' is just holding the basic attack down) so that you can fully focus on dodging, like a QTE in Expedition 33 or Paper Mario.

[pure spoke]

im just face tanking rhodogan flames because dodging waste time

[valid palm]

Like, you could remove movement entirely (excluding dodging), and make basic attacks happen automatically without needing to hold down the button, and around 90-95% of the combat would stay the same.

[mortal trellis]

has someone compared spam dodging flames to supercharge sp to not?

intuitively i feel like its worse but i haven't bothered enough to actually do a time test

[glass birch]

dive attack is considered basic attack

so we already have dive attack gera

gear

[mortal trellis]

i mean technically yeah

actually i dont even remember what i meant with that comment

i have amnesia

[glass birch]

2 braincells fighting for 3rd place

[mortal trellis]

two? where's the second

is it in the room with us

[glass birch]

[valid palm]

2 braincells and they're both on loan to someone else

[pure spoke]

wtf m2 chen combo shaved off 8 seconds

[mortal trellis]

yeah it'd be like holding m1 is just a given, whatever else you do is the actual "meat" of the combat

[pure spoke]

2;02

[mortal trellis]

surely not a crit

[proud vector]

Honestly most attacks in this game have insane amounts of mobility built in

LR final strike goes sooooo far

[valid palm]

Yeah it's hard to find something that isn't basically heat-seeking

[twilit quail]

autos used to have like half the range they do now

and so they made a massive course correction

in live

your autos used to whiff constantly

[proud vector]

It’s honestly kinda nice

[mortal trellis]

i just hate how there's not an option to cancel lock-on

[proud vector]

You can legitimately weave out of range and right back in with the normal string range

[mortal trellis]

i wanna get to my fs but i keep running into DoT

[proud vector]

Lmao

[mortal trellis]

ballista and axe solo speedrun was actually so cancer because of no healing items

[valid palm]

is there not?

[mortal trellis]

was there even a proper indicator for when the grounded arrows exploded?

[valid palm]

I could of sworn you just M3

[mortal trellis]

agony disables all consumables iirc

o

wait what

who were you referring to

[valid palm]

.

[mortal trellis]

ah

m3 just re-focuses your camera in the direction your char is facing

[glass birch]

👀

[valid palm]

In the tutorial I swear I remember they said you use M3 to lock-on, and if you're already locked on you M3 to cancel it

[mortal trellis]

but if your character is still "locked onto" the enemy they just do a 180 and run straight back at them

[glass birch]

Youre not in combat

[mortal trellis]

it was happening when i was grinding out my ballist and axe solo

maybe i was just tweaking

[valid palm]

Either I'm remembering wrong, or maybe certain boss fights just force the lock for some reason (which would be stupid)

[mortal trellis]

ik it was a buggy mess half the runs

maybe yeah

[valid palm]

I dunno, I've never actually used lock-on since the tutorial lol

I have no need for it, and if the game has ever forced it on me it has been in situations where ig it felt natural enough that I didn't notice

[mortal trellis]

yeah its so useless and the one time i remembered its existence it failed me

[potent hornet]

there is like a soft lock auto aim

it will target the nearest to your character if you aren't doing a directional input

sometimes it doesn't even care about the input lol

[valid palm]

The only time I remember having camera issues is whenever I get too close to one of their damn Breath of the Wild spots and it keeps trying force the cinematic shot on me 😭

[potent hornet]

i have had my LR 180 more than a couple of times to hit a single dog behind me instead of the 4 dudes i took the time to group up

[valid palm]

Every time I approach a cliff I have to brace myself for the 50/50 on whether or not it's going to be a Breath of the Wild spot or not lmao

[pure spoke]

if the 2nd ult didnt get cut off by the cutscene it would have been trimmed rhodogan bruh

scammed

[potent hornet]

yea that window is tight

[pure spoke]

[potent hornet]

gets me every time, at least you can get a full stagger on him, i have to try and do it on the halfway mark

[pure spoke]

sometimes it do be

[gritty briar]

oh wow that was really close

[potent hornet]

can't wait for TangTang solo

[pure spoke]

my body is rdy

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-endfield-tangtang-wuling-jump-gif-5889053850376434839

im3 the combo

[mortal trellis]

are you not anim canceling on purpose?

[pure spoke]

i used the p2w shop

[pure spoke]

u mean inbetween attacks?

[mortal trellis]

ya

for batk4 and fs

[pure spoke]

oh i didnt know batk4 can be animation canceled

i do for last attack tho

[mortal trellis]

doing both shreds through your stamina but its p fast

[fiery hemlock]

how does link work with laevatain ult? can you link after she activates ult and it applies or do you link, then activate her ult?

[pure spoke]

thx lemme try

4th is the uppcercut?

[tight haven]

ulting on laev consumes it, does nothing

[mortal trellis]

ya

[pure spoke]

like the one before lst hit right?

[mortal trellis]

after first uppercut hits

[pure spoke]

thx

[mortal trellis]

you can dodge ye

[fiery hemlock]

link just doesnt work on her ult then? what about the special skill during ult?

[tight haven]

it works on her battle skill, yes

any ult that simply results in a transformation without dealing damage directly (like laev and yvonne) will consume link without providing any benefit

[fiery hemlock]

well thats not good

[tight haven]

for pog, link will increase the damage of his first advance attack, but harass and the final strike will not be boosted

yeah you have to plan around it

reserve link for laevs enhanced bskill

bricked

holy shit

bricked

LOLLLLLL

[normal tangle]

i hate it here

[potent hornet]

nice

[tight haven]

me when i have to brick my account because im bored

[normal tangle]

NOT nice i didn't want her 😭

[potent hornet]

well tooooo bad

she loves you

[normal tangle]

dude i was at 0 pity and it's a free 10 pull

i thought i was building pity

fuck me i guess

[tight haven]

hey

treat it as a free weapon pull

👍

[gritty briar]

well you didn't lose that much pity then

[potent hornet]

because you want to build pity and don't want her you will pull her every 20\

[gritty briar]

and got a decent amount of arsenals

[tight haven]

go for p5

pull tangtang

[teal pawn]

Is that P1 lol

[tight haven]

enjoy your marginally higher-dps but far more frustrating to use last rite

[normal tangle]

yes

i never wanted her either time

[gritty briar]

you're ready for the tangtang comp!

[teal pawn]

it's ok man

I got spooked by her twice too

and still benched her

[tight haven]

tangtang will make her only a little bit better than lr

[normal tangle]

what where did my messages go

[tight haven]

lets go

dude you got warned lmao

you cant post pulls here

[main nova]

I never mind her, eventually I will get her copy during Laev rerun anyway

[valid palm]

I mean, technically you still are

[mortal trellis]

batk armor + gloves + 2x lynx gave me 6 mins

maybe with max artifice it could be like 4.5 mins

[normal tangle]

vro it was related to a past convo

are we on god

[gritty briar]

lmao

[tight haven]

yeah no mods are strict on that

[normal tangle]

crazy work

[valid palm]

you just got a free 10 pull on the weapons, and unless you pulled her on exactly 10, you still built some pity compared to exactly 0

[hollow wyvern]

Pull while believing that you want her, you won't get her until guarantee

[normal tangle]

wait hang on her p1 is +ult energy

[hollow wyvern]

Works for me, for 2 units and 2 weps

[normal tangle]

does this save her rotations

[tight haven]

uh

no

[normal tangle]

awesome

[tight haven]

it just helps her not fucking explode

if you mess up

[teal pawn]

(it's dogshit)

[mystic halo]

It doesnt do anything other than make the situation more salvagable if you whiff an ability

[normal tangle]

i hate this operator man

[mystic halo]

no new gearing

[tight haven]

it unironically makes her more comfortable

to play

thats it

[valid palm]

It means you can more easily replace Alesh with Tangtang, probably

[tight haven]

her other pots are dogshit too

[bronze plume]

Enion why are you new here

[tight haven]

overall its like

a ~25% dpr boost

from p0 to p5

[normal tangle]

[bronze plume]

satelitte is a good starset song i agree but what that gotta do wit it

[mystic halo]

+7% cr might be the best one there

[tight haven]

notice her lack

of a fucking

-15% ult cost

pot

👍

[bronze plume]

we love yvonee

[proud vector]

Oh wild
Like, dang

[tight haven]

she gets nothing man its so funny

the worst part

is that she did turn out to be kind of good

[mystic halo]

dude

[tight haven]

but she controls like dog

[mystic halo]

do you know how cbt yvonne works?

THAT is the real horror

[tight haven]

genuinely the worst fucking op in the game to use

[mystic halo]

rng-based ult generation

[normal tangle]

wait how does the +15 energy not impact her rots i'm lowkey lost

is it because it usually procs while already inside ult

so no gain

[mystic halo]

current yvonne is a pathetic little baby compared to cbt yvonne

[tight haven]

i got pot2 yvonne in cbt2 and it made me suicidal

[bronze plume]

we do not talk about cbt yvonne

that was a curser

[tight haven]

it doesnt

she literally does not get a rotation change

it only helps you recover

[valid palm]

It's lowkey optimal to on-field Alesh instead of Yvonne whenever her free FS is down, but who can be assed to constantly switch back and forth

[valid zealot]

So they fixed her and still mid.

[tight haven]

i mean shes fine

[bronze plume]

itsa crazy to me how they gapped her with last rite in cbt2

[mystic halo]

because the only way to do damage with the character is to take 0% ult gain and consume 4 stacks(120 energy) anything opened up by p1 isnt an actual gain in damage

[proud vector]

No no CBT Yvonne was a totally different role

[mystic halo]

yvonne at least works now

[bronze plume]

cbt1 yvonne was

weird

[mystic halo]

in cbt she was an absolute train wreck

[tight haven]

yvonne is a functional operator now yes

[bronze plume]

cbt1 was just weird tbf

[mystic halo]

sometimes she'd just sit there for 2 mins

[bronze plume]

arclight was the best op

[mystic halo]

and cant get an ult

[valid zealot]

"Functional" is low bar.

[tight haven]

it was a mess

[pure spoke]

you da man. it helped my run xD

sub 2 min yeahhhhh

[proud vector]

Oh cool what did they change

[tight haven]

okay in this sense "functional" here means unironically competitive with lr if the pilot is GOOD good

[valid zealot]

Chat is this true.

[normal tangle]

how bad does tangtang yvonne team want gilb

[tight haven]

yes

[bronze plume]

you know how in cbt2 akekuri was insane cuz her ult regen 300sp

[tight haven]

unfortunately

[normal tangle]

because i do not own gilb

[mystic halo]

It's just that what LR has to do is animation cancel one auto

[proud vector]

Her ult did WHAT

Holy shIT

[mystic halo]

and yvonne has to go 180 apm

[tight haven]

seemingly still doesnt exist without gilb

[bronze plume]

akekuri ult in cbt2 genned the entire sp bar

[normal tangle]

that's so sick

p1 yvonne no gilb

[valid palm]

I want to like Arclight so bad but I just can't get past how off she looks with her weird grayish skin. Like, there are tan NPCs in the game that look perfectly normal, how did they fuck her up

[normal tangle]

my account is cooked

[mystic halo]

and then make sure that no abilities miss

[bronze plume]

in cbt1

[proud vector]

Jesus Christ

[tight haven]

yeah lr mains have to crit fish

[bronze plume]

arclight could do that but because

she spammed tf outta her combo and ult

[tight haven]

yvonne mains need to learn cold fusion

[bronze plume]

in cbt1 vanguards didnt exist

arclight was a specialist

[potent hornet]

i would have responded faster but i had to make it myself

[celest carbon]

bring back old akekuri

[bronze plume]

hell no dont bring back old akekuri

[potent hornet]

couldn't find one

[bronze plume]

actually wait

yeah bring it back

6 star akekuri

[twilit quail]

man the moment they add actual difficult things

the discussion environment is going to improve 100x

it's the root cause of all of the dogshit guides

[bronze plume]

youd hope so

[twilit quail]

and the moment next patch units come out it's going to be the same thing

[proud vector]

would prefer it was difficult not because of dps check but skill though

[twilit quail]

dogshit guides that just slip out because of no content

[tight haven]

yeah having to preface every statement with like

"but it still works"

sucks

[bronze plume]

sometimes dps checking is needed

[twilit quail]

especially with two units that are at least a little weird

[valid palm]

I hate the gacha meta of making every endgame you fighting a timer instead of an actual boss

[twilit quail]

dps is the only vector by which optimisation can be measured in these games

[valid palm]

It's so annoying

[twilit quail]

there isnt anything else to do in a game like this lol

[tight haven]

because people see "yvonne is bad because she demands insane investment to achieve marginally the same results as last rite" and either take away that yvonne == last rite or that yvonne is unusable

[twilit quail]

you have to just accept it

[proud vector]

my poor shatter phys runs like a well oiled tricycle lmfao

It’s so smooth but the output is low

[twilit quail]

this is possibly the easiest game I have ever played

in this category

in its current state

[pure spoke]

majority of people wouldnt play a gacha which requires actual skill tho. because most dont wanna spend that time learning and improving

[twilit quail]

it is genuinely unbearable

[celest carbon]

just add a dark souls boss that'll kill your entire team if you dont interact with it's mechanics smh

[valid palm]

majority of people don't like using their brains either, and already got filtered by the factory

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tight haven]

seeing this from the same studio that made pinch out is killing me

[valid zealot]

Reward medals.

[twilit quail]

Im a CC oldhead in original AK

and that game isnt made for me anymore either

so

[valid zealot]

I'm fine with nothing but bragging right.

[valid palm]

Like, Endfield is already seemingly making a point to deliver actual fun gameplay, rather than catering to the lowest common denominator

[pure spoke]

also true. i think WWM is a good example. a lot of people tried the hardest mode but got filtered and are just playing the normal or ez mode. not gacha but its like a f2p souls like

[potent hornet]

i keep seeing CC, what does this mean

[twilit quail]

it's already catering to the lowest common denominator lol

[potent hornet]

crowd control?

[tight haven]

it is shocking to me how many people genuinely seem to want the factory to just not exist

[valid zealot]

That or content creator.

What context.

[normal tangle]

its delivering fun gameplay but you don't need to engage with any of it

you have like a 10 minute timer for umbral or something

[thin rune]

I play using solo catcher, lowkey enjoy the parry skill he has lmao

[river scroll]

CC is crown control

[potent hornet]

ahh yea its probably content creator

[normal tangle]

you can turn your brain off and hold m1 the whole time and still clear

[thin rune]

That and the factory must grow

[tight haven]

their expressed problem with it isnt that they feel its poorly implemented but they just dont want to interact with it at all

[valid palm]

It's more watered down than OG Arknights but it's definitely taking more of a stance than literally every other game so far in the space

[twilit quail]

there isnt even a tower in the game rn

are you kidding me?

[celest carbon]

contingency contract (it was a gamemode in ak where you could add risks to a stage which made it significantly more difficult)

[twilit quail]

what kind of stance do you think they are taking

[tight haven]

and like you dont even have to??? there are blueprints for a reason

[normal tangle]

i thought umbral was the tower

[gritty briar]

problem i have with a stricter dps check is just that it doesn't really make me more or less likely to enjoy speedrunning something and possibly deletes certain categories

[normal tangle]

am i trippin

[potent hornet]

ahhhhh ok

thats cool

[gritty briar]

like if i wanted a dps check, i'd just arbitrarily set a time limit for myself

[pure spoke]

[river scroll]

ye

[tight haven]

i really do think the way to go is to make this game like

fucking relink

or dragalia

[gritty briar]

never played those two so i wouldn't know

[normal tangle]

nobody knows what those are vro

[tight haven]

just complex out the ass fights that are a blast to learn

[proud vector]

I was there for M!cleo

I do not like the m!cleo meta

[lyric latch]

Relink and Dragalia mention?! Peak

[valid palm]

gacha players when they are either too stupid and/or too lazy to copy and paste the perfect factory off of some other guy's blueprint in order to get free passive resources:

[tight haven]

literally

like dude

you already DONT have to touch it if you dont want to

[celest carbon]

give them some time... i have faith the devs will cook something up that's actually enjoyable

[tight haven]

i dont understand it

[mortal trellis]

lmao gg

[quaint matrix]

wait essences is 40 stam instead of 120?

[proud vector]

Discount event

[normal tangle]

when have essences ever been 120

[bronze plume]

sanity is discounted atm

[normal tangle]

what game have you been playing

[bronze plume]

nothing has ever been 120

[quaint matrix]

wasn't essence thing 120 stam?

[tight haven]

no

[normal tangle]

recrisis

[tight haven]

thats recrisis

[valid palm]

Endfield has made it so incredibly easy to just skip the factory building if you don't like it. They're just mad that you still have to spend like, five minutes pressing Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V on a blueprint code before never touching it again.

[celest carbon]

120 is the sanity cost for the recrisis stages

[bronze plume]

oh yeah recrisis exists

[quaint matrix]

oh yeah

[bronze plume]

is that even

worth it

[normal tangle]

yes

[celest carbon]

yeah

[quaint matrix]

what was the price of essence? 80?

[normal tangle]

more return than the crisis alluvium

[tight haven]

yes

[gritty briar]

unfortunately i've seen people get skillchecked by the bulls so i'm not sure how much skill based shit they can really add to this game if something like that is filtering people

[pure spoke]

i used endmin weapon tho xD

[celest carbon]

it's more sanity efficient (but just use the gold material boxes from the factory shop)

[thin rune]

I guess sometimes you gotta account that some people just doesn't want to think an extra mile lmao

And then you find someone who cram a full factory lines in one single sub pac

[tight haven]

i think they should introduce hard content just to introduce hard content

put a shiny medal behind it and thats it

no material rewards

[normal tangle]

bulls were lowk the only fun stage in umbral

as long as you weren't on phys team

[twilit quail]

the actual rewards dont matter at all there just needs to be something that actually tests optimisation

[pure spoke]

which confirms it for me . solo chen with endmin sig is better than rapid ascent . 😭

[twilit quail]

otherwise there is no reason to even do any of this discussing at all

[tight haven]

yeah its so fucking boring when my laev can kill literally everything in under a minute

[twilit quail]

the reason shit is so bad

[tight haven]

even playing like dogwater

[twilit quail]

is because there is nothing hard

it is the single reason

the environment is such dogshit

[tight haven]

i honestly wouldnt mind if it was just like

SU in HSR

[twilit quail]

you know what the fucking other games had

week 1

tower

[tight haven]

some repeatable junk food content

[twilit quail]

that's what they fucking had

that's what we fucking need

[mortal trellis]

isn't it pretty on-par for solos?

im not actually sure

[tight haven]

more etchspace is cool, but it's so easy

[valid zealot]

Babel tower like pgr.

[tight haven]

and theres no variance

[twilit quail]

there is just no point to the combat gameplay fucking existing at all

[valid palm]

Eh, I feel like this is the case with almost every gacha 1.0. They scale the 'endgame' to a more midgame level because they know that most people are still going to have shit builds and half-baked teams. The people who actually optimize from the start and race to the finish have nothing to do until a few months in and the endgame is finally balanced around the assumption that most players have a fully (and properly) built team now.

[celest carbon]

true im surprised this game didnt launch with a rogue like

[twilit quail]

without anything that poses a remote challenge

[pure spoke]

ye its on par but last time i ve seen a graph it was better

lemme get it

[twilit quail]

you might as well literally delete all of it

[tight haven]

while this might be true it does feel bad and i level with complaints abt it feeling bad

i definitely feel it

[valid palm]

Oh absolutely, I agree

I just think that this isn't really anything new

or unique to Endfield

[tight haven]

yeah yeah

[proud vector]

Honestly a training mode but you can jack up the enemy levels to like 200+ would be cool

[twilit quail]

no other game in the past like half decade

has had it this bad

[proud vector]

And it becomes a challenge of how high of a level can you beat in like 10 mins

[tight haven]

its kinda boring but idrc personally

[pure spoke]

3%. but it mattered for my run where 1 second counts xD

[tight haven]

im just gonna go play more fuckin

mewgenics

[twilit quail]

play mewgenics

[tight haven]

until this game becomes a Video Game

[celest carbon]

so true

[twilit quail]

dude

ok

[proud vector]

How good is mewgenics?

[twilit quail]

Im cooking up

[proud vector]

I’ve seen it around

[twilit quail]

a enchanted relic + jester cap

[tight haven]

fire emblem if it was good

[twilit quail]

because I got a mini me meteor drop

do I get 6 clones?

[pure spoke]

oh wait wrong graph, nvm its the right one

[twilit quail]

and then if I use a sparkles build

[valid palm]

I dunno, I played WuWa and and ZZZ on release and both of their staple endgames were this piss-easy too for the first couple months or so. People just didn't notice in WuWa because they also had the optional hyperscaled bossfights they could do their solo Danjin runs on

[twilit quail]

could I kill all the enemies on act 2 hard

before the mini mes kill each other?

I also discovered today that we can make burn bleed and poison damage crit

[tight haven]

yea i feel like hyperscaled bosses would sate folks

like if we had lv150 bosses that were far far more aggressive

[twilit quail]

yes youre getting it

the stuff

[tight haven]

so aggressive that a defender is basically necessary to avoid damage

[twilit quail]

EXISTED

guess what this game does not have

[gritty briar]

i feel like even genshin launch was harder but they released abyss at like launch and asked you to have 2 teams like immediately so it was more of a resource issue

[twilit quail]

guess what does not exist in endfield

it has nothing to do with rewards or income

[tight haven]

the new 1.1 boss sounds promising

[twilit quail]

it's literally just whether or not it exists AT ALL

[tight haven]

i want bosses that actively punish me for greeding

that prevent me from nuking them

i want content that i cant just combo off on

[potent hornet]

a second TangTang braincell

[tight haven]

if i wanted to play yugioh id play fuckin yugioh

[valid palm]

a first tangtang braincell

[tight haven]

please bro please give me a reason to raise a defender besides doing catcher solos

[lyric latch]

use Tangtang ult and nuke him anyways. skip mechanics

[tight haven]

tangtang ult does genuinely like

sound unhealthy

for the game

idk

[main nova]

genshin dodge is not working

[pure spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-endfield-tangtang-gif-4397327759285362468

[tight haven]

a universal freeze is sooooo strong

it looks like it only lasts 5s so ig

[potent hornet]

that 5 seconds is enough

[gritty briar]

I was pretty surprised when they announced it working on bosses yeah

[tight haven]

yeah its a lot of time

[potent hornet]

i love that they gave her domain expansion

[valid zealot]

Phase skip hell yeah.

[gritty briar]

i thought that was like a hard line they wouldn't cross

[tight haven]

its COOL dont get me wrong

i am just concerned for how you design around it

[valid palm]

tbf they described the CC is a 'pause' so like

[pure spoke]

tangtang is mostima if you think about it

[valid palm]

it's possible that it doesn't ignore mechs

[main nova]

the only iframe that working in genshin 1.0 is Beidou parry

[tight haven]

im assuming bosses will have invuln phases where they literally cant be interacted with

including tangtangs freeze

like triagg phase 2

[valid palm]

like if you use her ult during the bull's damage reduction phase, now you're just sitting there for an extra 5ish seconds while the bull is still damage reduced

[valid zealot]

Pause time.
Hand guns
-> Kurumi.

[valid palm]

instead of it being a 'stun' that knocks them out of whatever they're doing

I dunno, we won't know for sure how interactions work until she releases

[tight haven]

yeah

[potent hornet]

did it show her regening SP while it was going?

[tight haven]

why wouldnt she

[valid palm]

Yes. It doesn't pause time, just the boss

[tight haven]

yea

its not a timestop

[potent hornet]

was just curious

[tight haven]

fair

it is a very INTERESTING mechanic

just sounds quite unfair on paper

maybe in practice it really does just play like a gimmick

honestly it just sounds like an olive branch to yvonne

because she absolutely shits the fucking bed if you miss with her

[valid palm]

If it is truly a pause (doesn't cancel boss mechs) I think it's fine.

Still really strong, but not that unhealthy

[tight haven]

we do already kind of have permastun

thanks to phys comps

provided a boss has two stagger nodes you can just style on them

[valid palm]

Stagger out the fookin ass

[twilit quail]

I still cant get over that ember video

that was literally just like

lying

[tight haven]

which 1

[twilit quail]

and people came to tell me

[valid palm]

You see Tangtang ult is necessary to let Cryo teams keep up with what Physical comps do naturally by existing /s

[potent hornet]

i'm curious if TangTangs basic slam attack is gonna have a nutty multiplier

[twilit quail]

why isnt this in your document

[tight haven]

oh is it the fucking

[potent hornet]

since she has a jump attack mechanic with the ult

[tight haven]

ember dps

equal to lifeng dps

video

[gritty briar]

what

[twilit quail]

is that one of the claims made in that video

[tight haven]

i swear to god they snorted three whole lines of crack before making that

[distant python]

I like ember and all, but I'm not gonna claim that ember clears as fast as the lifeng+ pog phy comp

[tight haven]

i dont know if it was in the video, the reddit post, or if it was something that ember stan said here

[valid palm]

what video tf

[tight haven]

but i saw it last when someone came in here to heartily defend the claim that lifengs dps is "comparable" to embers

and they posted

that fucking

video

[twilit quail]

it's just exhausting because these sorts of people will get immediately defensive on the video game character's behalf

[distant python]

Ember is just fun to play, I like perma staggering the boss

[gritty briar]

catcher feels pretty satisfying too

defenders are just fun

[tight haven]

catcher solos are so hard

i love him sm

[valid zealot]

The gameplay is hard or you hard.

[valid palm]

At least Snowshine has a purpose, because she can claim the niche of cheapest Cryo infliction in the game

[twilit quail]

snowshine mogs every other char in the game in healing so if you are actually handless that is who you should use

[pure spoke]

I mean ember can kill rhodogan sub 2 minutes. Which means her own dps is high. Like chen. Idk about lifeng tho. Ofc he provides other stuff than raw dps

[valid palm]

(ignore the fact that SP return is lowkey a nerf like half the time because of ult gain)

[twilit quail]

sp refund is such a fucking joke

literally

straight up detrimental more often than not

[valid palm]

but if you're handless then you're not seeing her sick ass parry

[tight haven]

it exists to ruin rotations

and i find that hilarious

[gritty briar]

i think the most fun you'll have in this game is just trying to optimize dogshit comps
Even if the game did lean harder into dps checks, they'll realistically never really push you hard enough to pressure those teams that can kill the current bosses in like 20 seconds so i think optimized teams will always kinda be too easy

[bronze plume]

whats the main difference between sp refund and gen again

[valid zealot]

He takes 2 business day to swing his schlong spear.

[tight haven]

returned sp doesnt gen ult energy

[pure spoke]

Ye lifeng bs is pure dogshit

[bronze plume]

cringa

[valid zealot]

refund is fuck you no ult gain.

[valid palm]

I think it's perfectly fair that SP return doesn't count as SP recovery, but god damn it screwing your ult gain feels so bad

[pure spoke]

At least give lifeng super armor while he swings his shit

[tight haven]

i wish lifengs bskill was faster but it deals so much damage and does so much that i feel its wholly warranted

[gritty briar]

makes math for ult gain breakpoints a little more annoying too

[twilit quail]

me when I have to fully artifice wulfgard and 9/9 ult gain on his wepaon

because lae has p1

[gritty briar]

or if you just visually see that you're 1 skill away from ult but it's all fake sp

[valid zealot]

Pay to lose.

AmiyaRaveL

[pure spoke]

Platinum skin be like

[valid palm]

pay to lose + skin mention reminds me of the old Karthus ult fiasco in league

[pure spoke]

Lmao

[valid palm]

where they made a new skin, but it was secretly pay to lose because it included a little indicator on where his ult was going to land

[pure spoke]

I only remember p2w skin in league

[valid palm]

and then instead of fixing the skin, they retroactively nerfed the champion to make all of his other skins have that little indicator too

absolute cinema dev work

[tardy ginkgo]

Wait what? So like Last Rite's Battle Skill doesn't generate any for the team?

[main nova]

p2w emote

[tight haven]

the 30 returned sp will not generate ult energy no

[glass birch]

SP refund doesnt procc effects like Frontier's either

[timber harness]

ember not really having a place anywhere even as a sustain due to the nature of her kit. Endmin's current kit being felt by many players to be clunky due to the nature of the SP economy and just how their kit works even with a dupe that refunds sp by a massive amount. My personal opinion? The downtime forced by combo skill cd's being generally so long for many units and the sp enconomy requiring sp batteries for a lot of teams, yet the perceived impact of those "batteries" is them being just enough of a battery to smooth out rotations, but not actually provide a great amount of sp to where it feels you can have more lee way with rotations to a noticeable degree. And Yvonne. (That's it.)

[compact bridge]

Just wait until limited 6* vanguard released

Maybe mi fu will be cryo vanguard

[gritty briar]

maint time

oh wait it ended immediately?

it just booted me and i instantly joined back in lmao

[jagged stump]

im not even kicked out of the game

but i just loged off just to be safe

weird

[wind nebula]

first I've heard about Endmin being clunky. also the only players I hear complaining about Ember are players that don't run her and likely never built her

[compact bridge]

Is the maintenance to show rossi number?

[proud vector]

endmin costs SP and can’t print vulns like panda

However she does return SP

The rotations and issues with both are quite unique tbh

[timber harness]

Matter of fact, that sp generation issue is also gonna remain an issue due to there being a combo skill cd in the first place. Even in situations where I have left over SP to do one more skill, the fact that there is an internal cd makes it to where i end up just blowing the sp and not having really anything to follow up with it. Making the downtime feel even more exacerbated than needs be. Nikke had this exact same issue, however it was never an issue because the devs have units that effect the cooldown of the burst rotation, making the situation where a unit having abilities that generate ultimate faster dont run into the issue of their generation abilities being bottlenecked by the game's design. This game doesnt have that. So you have basic attack for 15 seconds moments. It feels really bad.

[pure spoke]

Lmao why are you always writing a wall of text xd

[timber harness]

You must be confusing me with someone else. I barely talk in here unless its to meme

[wind nebula]

it's like we're trying to be allergic to fun. friction creates fun, it's just that not everyone likes every flavor of friction.

if every character/team was a perfectly synergistic group with butter smooth everything and insane damage it'd be boring and a lesson to other devs to never repeat

[pure spoke]

My bad. With always i mean 2 out of 2 text i ve seen from you

[gritty briar]

I don't really consider needing to time shit so stuff lines up to be a half baked kit

[timber harness]

Fun is subjective, and friction can create fun. But there's a limit to it. Also, let's not act like half the issues im criticizing won't be magically addressed by newly introduced characters as a way to entice spending.

[proud vector]

combo cooldowns are kinda nothingburger

[pure spoke]

I would prefer if every ops could somewhat work out with most operators. I like team diversity

[proud vector]

Ultimate flashes allow cooldowns to continue ticking down

Realistically this means ults take up time and interrupt SP generation

Leading to SP still being the primary bottleneck

[wind nebula]

You know why rotations don't line up perfectly action to action, and likely are intended to have those gaps?

Your enemies can fight back. it creates a natural ebb and flow to combat where you adapt and react to the changing situation of whatever fight you're in, rather than spam a repeated cycle like a machine against a training dummy

[peak void]

anyone got timestamp for quick update

[proud vector]

that said, absolutely mastering the team to the point where you ARE able to upkeep a pure uninterrupted cycle feels sugoi as fck

Because you HAVE to work for it

[ocean hawk]

its already finished iirc

[pure spoke]

Thats why i dont like wuwa anymore. Just braindead rotations

[wind nebula]

this too. this is what the friction is for. overcoming it is where a lot of satisfaction lies

[peak void]

wtf

[gritty briar]

Using ults to fill time for lining up combo cd is kinda cool imo

[unreal light]

True, however enemies don’t live that long

[timber harness]

I guess in the definition of "fight back" in gacha terms, sure. But there are plenty of games with action based combat where the enemies fight back despite you doing your rotations. I don't think your interacting with the game necessarily means the enemies have to be permanently staggered, unless the game is suffering from general poor game design

[peak void]

at first it feels great then u just keep doing the same shit without interacting much with the enemy

i like how u sometimes need to switch your rotations up here

[gritty briar]

I realized i can fit estella's 18 second cd in rhodagn's 10 second stagger if i ult enough and i'm wondering if i could make use of this somehow in my run

[pure spoke]

Ye. I dont even look at the screen/enemy anymore

[compact bridge]

I dont need the enemy to be permanently staggered, but i dont want my character to be staggered when receiving enemy hit too

[peak void]

maybe hot take, at some point wuwa combat became all flash no substance

[proud vector]

SP being the primary bottleneck and finisher attacks being such a heavy source of SP is good design imo

[peak void]

looks pretty, feels good, but doesnt satisfy if u actually wanna think

[proud vector]

Your fights feel different because you get stagger and SP at different times and rates

[wind nebula]

if you're focusing on executing your offense, two things happen:

1. your attention is focused on hit things on CD rather than what the boss is doing next
2. when the boss inevitably interrupts your flow you feel 10 times worse than you would if you just had a natural gap to breathe, react or plan

[pure spoke]

Well the big flashy effects just clutter everything. I like that endfield specifically stated they dont want that. But even for me surtrs effects are too much

Even after the reduction

[proud vector]

Plus a natural gap allows for phase specific or fight specific half-phases or mini rotations

[gritty olive]

but then if you got hit by bad rng you can just reset no?

[proud vector]

Your “intended rotation” isn’t stiff as a brick and unable to be broken down into parts

[peak void]

atp wuwa doesnt care about being excessively flashy because theres little to no reason to look at the screen

[wind nebula]

by having those CDs, your optimal timing for a lot of skills becomes a WINDOW rather than a MOMENT. that window can slide up and down the timeline if you need to react and you'll still be optimal

[proud vector]

Long pause? This means you can store extra SP and go hard on the combos right after

[gritty olive]

ive had a conversation with another person that if team a and team b have the same theoretical dps but team b has less hassle to deal that, it should mean that team b is better since you have easier execution for the same damage

[peak void]

who cares if i cant see whats happening, i have no reason to see it

[wind nebula]

resetting for me personally is the absolute least fun thing I can be made to do

[gritty olive]

assuming all other nuances are to be disregarded

[peak void]

better from a damage dealing or ease of use standpoint sure

but the lower challenge could be less fun

[gritty olive]

im fine with resetting because i can just accept that its just not my time to do so

but for now we arent pressured to clear stuff in 2 minutes

risk 3: clear time reduced to 2:30

[proud vector]

We aren’t? it’s a mark of basic competence which you can use to back your opinions in the true endgame

Discord arguments

[gritty olive]

risk 2: enemies have +60% atk

[proud vector]

[peak void]

risk system 🙏

[timber harness]

I think equating to the game not feeling bad due to mechanical shortcomings as "expecting perfectly synergistic group with butter smooth everything" to be a non sequitor to what im saying anyway. It's not about perfect teams. It's a general combat mechanisms sort of thing.

[gritty briar]

discord pvp is the real endgame fr

I just don't think it feels bad

[pure spoke]

Just say "no you"

[proud vector]

Hmm

Have you tried shatter phys?

It’s one of the few teams for me that I have gotten to the point where I am being actively held back by CD’s rather than SP

[timber harness]

well yeah thats where i noticed the issue initially.

[proud vector]

It’s basically a synergistic group with butter smooth everything lol

[timber harness]

Think that was the first team i tried early on

[wind nebula]

i don't care what's a non sequitor when you're spending so many words saying what you don't like and none describing what you want.

what are you expecting actually?

[proud vector]

I greatly enjoy that sort of team, but I’m really glad that alternative team styles, down to the very resources that they care about exist as well

With shatter phys my eye is on my Estella CS cooldown

[signal sundial]

Risk 4: 0 SP gain but you get fixed amount of SP for the whole fight

[proud vector]

On Last Right it is on that SP bar and on me auto attacking well

[signal sundial]

CC PTSD intensifies

[pure spoke]

My esl brain cant understand utsu

[timber harness]

If we drop the defensiveness over opinions the intent behind my words become quite clear, but I will say it plainly since anything more friction wise would probably make people blow a gasket over a difference of opinion:

I just think the combat can be slow paced at times. Though, I'm sure inevitably this will become less of an issue with future unit releases.

[proud vector]

Like it’s possible technically to go so fast on LR that you can hit the CD barrier

But it’s not sustainable lmao

[gritty briar]

I think the game just isn't for you if having cooldowns and sp limitations to interfere with rotations makes you feel bad enough that endmin feels "half baked" to you. That's kind of the entire point of the core combat mechanics of the game

[proud vector]

Which is cool in its own way

Oh just slower paced

[gritty olive]

i deffo feel it being a bit on the slower side as well

[proud vector]

Yeah no that I can get behind

[gritty olive]

probably due to shared sp mechanic + combos

[proud vector]

If all SP sources were 1.2x and all cd are 0.8x the game would be spicier

[gritty olive]

• weird energy gain

[proud vector]