NJZ Updates and Discussion

[old cypress]

Yeah I agree, just wanted to know exactly how they found the messages

But in any case mhj messed up and didn't take the basic precautions

[hoary frost]

yeah i still think if they dont really have a say it's kinda a marketing thing, like to pretend they have significant influence over the company but in reality they don't really

[short laurel]

I remember them saying they got it from cloud. It should be in the 1st injunction last year. But i not exactly remember if it was that one.

[clear hill]

I did see ppl comparing kg’s mistreatment to njz’s saying that hers was “real mistreatment” compared to newjeans.either way it’s fucked up ppl only care to sensationalize it online

[old cypress]

basically mhj side assumed it was forensics then hybe said no it's from the cloud, but I'm not sure hybe is telling the truth

[short laurel]

Tbf majority of ppl don't know or understand these. Even ppl working in IT. Let alone mhj who has no understanding or relation with tech.

[bronze talon]

can u blame them?

[old cypress]

Yep for sure

[bronze talon]

idt she had any idea that itd escalate to this level in the first place

[short laurel]

Hybe admitting data is from the cloud itself should've triggered fines on them but ministry of labour did nothing.

[old cypress]

I wonder why!

[bronze talon]

cant be corruption and media pressure!

[short laurel]

Kpopies made everything competition. Even mistreatment. Then they wonder why kpop is not respected by ppl much.

[short laurel]

It's crazy so many crimes are admitted publicly but everyone willing ignore them throughout the world.

[clear hill]

Sooo true.

[bronze talon]

"wait your idol actually didnt get punched by her boss or sexually abused by coworkers? pff not heavy enough to be mentioned, go back to work" ahh people
its so restarted, istg to a point its braindead

[short laurel]

That's not even the worse I've seen...

[bronze talon]

just making an example

[short laurel]

They literally cover up ||SA. Defend ppl like yg's love story n so on..||

[bronze talon]

yea gg
its cooked

[clear hill]

No really kpop stans are extremely detached from reality and lack empathy. It’s concerning

[old cypress]

kpopies want to keep enjoying kpop content so they swept every serious issue under the rug

[bronze talon]

the reason in a lot of these cases is themselves having problems with them irl so they gotta put their piled up frustration out on the internet

[clear hill]

Not to mention ||bullied sulli to death||

[bronze talon]

and ofc a lot has to do with their childhood parenting, education and surroundings irl, they affect them so much you have no idea

[clear hill]

Tbh I was never a kpop fan for this reason alone, the fan base made me despite kpop

[old cypress]

many hold onto kpop as their lifeline yes

[bronze talon]

ye
kinda saddening if you ask me

[old cypress]

I like kpop, it has a lot of creativity but the fan culture and the industry both need to change

[short laurel]

Yesterday i saw ppl hating i think her name was daisy from momoland? cuz last year she said publically that company made them go in health hiatus to get slight surgery. She said that jokingly n everyone kinda knows it already but stans started hating her cuz they think their fav going on break is for this reason too.

I had to let that out somewhere. 😅

[bronze talon]

the music and creativity it offers is nuts
very fun to see outcomes of so many projects
the fans are making it the worst shit ever or at least the negative type of people on the internet

[clear hill]

But tbf that shouldn’t be an excuse. Yes it’s sad but it’s 100% their responsibility. You should never blame your own grievances onto the world. Kpop fans who lack home training and attention from parents should know better than to harass idols online

[old cypress]

yeah lmao I couldn't believe fans pulled a reddit and started questioning her words

[bronze talon]

the fan competing type of people are making it so ass literally

[old cypress]

after the "i'm a lawyer" folks we get the "i'm an idol"

[bronze talon]

😭

[short laurel]

I wanted to reply that twt yesterday but dam everyone under the post were hating on her over this.

[clear hill]

Ppl on reddit are a different breed, they genuinely act like they have a phd in whatever they’re talking about

[bronze talon]

erm i got an phd in redditing so im right youre wrong type of people

[old cypress]

yeah reddit is apeshit when it comes to things like that

[hoary frost]

Lol kpop reddit is such a mess nowadays

wanna be lawyers ....was amusing when they got proven wrong...dont know the details of the case but they were like crashing out

[bronze talon]

and its so boring atm
quite literally the worst year rn
chuu kinda saved a bit, cant wait for bp and aespa

[old cypress]

There are many good things this year, ARTMS, H2H, Jennie

[hoary frost]

Tbh she is kinda dramabaiting. but one thing i find funny is how people talk to her asif they know more than her and she's spreading misinfo or something

[bronze talon]

oh yea jennie and lisa (kinda) have good songs, kinda forgot already eventho i got jennies album on my shelf lmao

[hoary frost]

triples comeback tmrw

[bronze talon]

oh w

[hoary frost]

but yea it is very boring this year....lol

[bronze talon]

well nothing excited me much anymore if its not aespa or njz, quite literally

[short laurel]

But that was last year. Yesterday stans just brought her in out of no where just cuz their fav going on health hiatus. No one was even saying anything but they assumed their girl getting hated cuz of daisy 😂

[bronze talon]

oh i saw

[short laurel]

I should've written down that group name

[bronze talon]

kpop stans try not to find the most obscure and random reason to hate on other idols challenge (failed)

[old cypress]

one of the weird things about kpop is when an idol speak up, fans think he/she's an attention seeker

[hoary frost]

oh was it cuz of rami?she has pneumothorax thats why she is on hiatus

[bronze talon]

not only that
they assume theyre lying or exaggerating so much

[old cypress]

they're so used to idols suffering in silence

[bronze talon]

they just want them to be silent so they can enjoy them doing work (theyre suffering)

[short laurel]

Maybe her. I not remember the name they wrote

[clear hill]

I need screenshots of that 😭 I love to see it

[hoary frost]

tbh tho any fan would be very mad if their idol got accused of faking health hiatus tho. especially when we already know about rami diagnosis for before

[old cypress]

the companies should be blamed not the idols

[hoary frost]

tbh probably not best to send here. kinda unrelated to njz ....has to do with cupid copyright...u can go on r/kpop i guess for the response

[short laurel]

Crazy thing is idols are probably downplaying instead.

[hoary frost]

ofc they r.
to be selected from so many people and then be able to survive training etc.
u would have to be a specific type of a person to do that

[short laurel]

Even though almost every public figure have done it.

[bronze talon]

not always but 90% of the time yes

[hoary frost]

have done what? been on hiatus...whats the implication here

[short laurel]

Surgery

[hoary frost]

yeah sure. but i mean lets say ur idol has a health problem for some time that is well known. and during a very important time she goes on hiatus and ppl accusing the only reason she is doing it for surgery and saying she's gonna come with "new face". i mean anyone would be mad

[old cypress]

daisy also said that groups have Live AR versions of their songs and these versions were commonly used in music shows/performances

[hoary frost]

oh not surprised

kinda suspected...but well best to have that than to not even try and just use straight up studio track

[short laurel]

Ooh yea. Fair

[old cypress]

idols would record while moving and jumping around so they sound more 'live'

[short laurel]

Yea common practice everyone does even outside kpop.

[red thorn]

https://news.mtn.co.kr/news-detail/2024073013590440324
This is some analysis regarding the kkt chat issue

[old cypress]

Interesting, thank you. So Hybe claimed that kakaotalk conversations were sent through her work email to another person. This is even less plausible than the cloud excuse lol

As the article said, for that to happen, mhj would need to export entire convos or take screenshots only to send them to someone else using her work email. When you look at the revealed kkt contents, it's 1000% unlikely imo

[short laurel]

I not remember this one 😂

[wary creek]

the whole problem with being an idol is you have to uphold an image. You can't swear or be rude or complain. Which i appreciate but maybe there could be some middle ground

[silk skiff]

yeah im pretty confident she'll win her shareholder agreement trial & put option lawsuit

getting compensated for 20 billion won ($14.5 million) should be more than enough to cover for any legal fees for the foreseeable future lol

[heady gate]

2nd hearing against Source Music on May 30. SEVENTEEN has a cb on May 26. HYBE may delay the hearing.

[waxen musk]

It was already delayed from March (see the old section of the schedule). Can they delay it again?

[craggy skiff]

yes, it is. read somewhere that there are not a limit number for delay request. they just need to make the court feel reasonable and approve it

[short laurel]

Hybe is debuting another group a bg. 2 bg planned this year apparently. N rumors for gg too.
Where are they getting the money for this

[wary creek]

if they're debuting the groups this year. They might have invested a bunch of time and money a while back

[short laurel]

They are debuting groups every year at this point. Multiple at that

N from what we know their training period is less than 1 year for some idols.

[heady gate]

HYPE can transfer Ador's money at any time. 💸

[silk skiff]

i mean bts is coming back soon so they're probably banking on them raking in the majority of the revenue to cover all their debts and initial trainee investments.

hybe's gonna work them to the bone, send them out for a world tour right after their comeback.

[mild mist]

Probably loans based on the stonks price

[short laurel]

No label launches groups as often. So seriously dam

[heady gate]

HYPE has to launch a new bg, bc two of the Seventeen members are age 29. They have to take the miliary training.

[subtle matrix]

Weren't they losing money the past 2 quarters despite record revenue? Seems like they're trying to flood the market with their groups

[copper jetty]

You guys think hybe debuting groups left and right has anything to do with bts maybe not renewing after what they signed or some members might leave? I think it's a future investment to divert their income from bts to more groups. As of now 65% of their income comes from bts and yeah they lost money in the past 2 quarters despite group cbs and their other groups on tour and bts solo releases which means they're burning money more than they earn.

[subtle matrix]

Well they can't be relying on BTS forever, whether they renew again or not

I think their contract runs out in 2027? That will be 14 years since debut. Definitely possible for some or all the members to quit

[copper jetty]

Idk if it's the right thing to flood the market with their groups though. Kpop will become more saturated with more groups and in the end it'll stagnate like what's happening right now. Instead of promoting what they have, they might just keep on debuting more groups until they find the next big thing.

[subtle matrix]

When BTS and Blackpink disband they will leave a huge vacuum to be filled

It's not realistic to expect any group alone to fill those shoes so I think their plan is to have 3-4 groups well positioned to capture a lot of those audiences

And right now looking at spotify streams (which don't tell the whole story ofc, these are global numbers and their main market is still SK) they have LSF, Newjeans (for now) and ILLIT all among the 5-6 most popular GGs, and the same for BGs with enhypen, txt and seventeen

Plus katseye who just released gnarly which is revealing itself to be a massive hit in online streams

[short laurel]

does katseye count as kpop.

[copper jetty]

No. They shouldn't be counted as kpop but for some reason since they're from Hybe people count it as that.

[short laurel]

and hybe need to promote n protect their current group well be4 they debut 3-4 groups to fill void bts and bp will leave. as we can c they don't know hwo to protect their groups.

[copper jetty]

Also them debuting groups left and right is ok as long as their concepts don't overlap ie with LSF and NJ, Otherwise we'll see what happened with NJS and OOO group again.

The thing is, I don't trust hybe to do that with their previous record... unless what they really did with Ador and NJS was intentional.

[short laurel]

they can n nothing will happen cuz all will be bang produced.

honestly i want to c nugus to rise help fill the void

[copper jetty]

True... but that's kinda what mhj was telling. There's no new target audience/listener and kpop growth would just be flat since the same audience will tune in.

[subtle matrix]

Kinda. They're obviously promoted more globally so in this context probably not. But the model is the same pretty much

[short laurel]

model is not exclusive to korea. west had similar model in the past. plus kpop model is taken from jpop idol model. so based on that alone doesn't make them kpop. they are not korean. they speak in english and launched in america. so atleast to me they should be considered american pop

[copper jetty]

Kinda like little mix or fifth harmony

[silk skiff]

do y'all think that the album sales for newjeans would've been much different if mhj had implemented the greedy ass "1 random photocard per album" strategy?

[old cypress]

katseye is western kpop

[subtle matrix]

I think it's both. Yeah they market themselves to a global audience but they are also heavily marketed in SK, much more than any "normal" American GG would. And Touch is definitely a kpop song even though it's in English

They are more discussed in kpop spaces than anywhere else

[copper jetty]

I don't think so. Newjeans' Albums are known for complete sets of photocards and many inclusions and I think that's one of the reasons why people buy it but also, I would say that our fandom are composed of people mostly new to kpop culture since we were introduced to kpop through newjeans.

If mhj did that I don't think the sales would change cause most of us aren't into photocards or is just getting into it. Like for me I'm actually not into it, I'm more focused on completing album sets and signed albums. Actually NJS is the first group I've collected and before that I thought there were sets of photocards PER ALBUM for kpop. Also, I've been to a couple of kpop concerts like svt and twice) and their photocard culture is crazy ( i actually can't relate) and nowhere are we near that level

[subtle matrix]

If there's a line between kpop gg and global gg I think they are it

[old cypress]

kpop used to be "pop in korean language" but it evolved into a genre with its codes. So we have things like japanese kpop and western kpop

[subtle matrix]

Yeah with kpop turning more towards international audiences over the past few years, more English singles and more international lineups I think the lines have blurred a bit. I also think if we see more groups like Katseye being formed eventually people will come up with a specific category to put these in-betweeners in, like GPop or whatever lol but yeah I think western kpop is a good description rn

[red thorn]

There's term "webtoon" (before even Line's Webtoon that popularized it) that korean called for their web/digital comic (the format is identical to longstrip/scrolldown page layout), now it became term for any longstrip comic.
Same as k-pop, k-wave thing.

[short laurel]

idol pop. for this specific industry

[short laurel]

webtoons fan translation websites are going down. 😦

[red thorn]

Idol pop could work too, just like calling webtoon is webcomic could work.

[short laurel]

no. webtoons are korean webcomic. while korean idol industry is sub genre of korean pop culture. just more well known intl now.

[alpine sapphire]

yeah i always think that we know that what adour gave as evidence those text msg and cctv but i wanna know whaat girls side said to defend themselves

[old cypress]

It was an injunction hearing, both sides gave their presentation and that was it. There was no cross examination

So Sejong didn't have the opportunity to debunk hybe's points and viceversa

[upbeat stream]

It's crazy that newjeans have the best selling debut album ever by a gg, and without randomized photocards. Every other album in the top 10 uses them to boost sales

And look at the gap too, more than twice the #2. With album sales declining, this record may stand for a long time, perhaps forever

[old cypress]

yeah it might take a decade

[subtle matrix]

If I had to guess I'd say it's never getting broken

[copper jetty]

Also since we're in the topic of hybe groups, I was curious regarding the streaming numbers of hybe gg now. I don't look at streaming data that much but I asked grok to compare them from starting debut to now. And this is the answer. Other streaming platforms aren't included but spotify data was analyzed. Not the whole perspective but I guess it could be a good representation.

[subtle matrix]

Newjeans is only rivaled by blackpink in terms of online streams globally

When they're both active that is, obviously now they haven't released anything in a while so LSF is around the same as both of them

[copper jetty]

Ok lmao I also had grok analyze other hybe groups and newjeans spotify streaming numbers and not just the gg, and I'm actually surprised.

The streaming data is consistent with the annual income report or is kinda close to it since I'm not familiar with how much belift's total income is.

I'm surprised with seventeen's data here though.

[copper jetty]

BP was rumored to have a cb this year so we'll see how that goes.

[short laurel]

Somu rumor to launch gg this year.

[subtle matrix]

Judging by how the solo releases by bp members worked out, it'll probably go very well

[copper jetty]

True. Honestly from what I've been seeing it seems that BP members have more successful solo debut than actual BTS members.

[short laurel]

I can bet u the new gg will be in huge public drama at debut. Otherwise it's not hybe

[subtle matrix]

I hope it's only 5 members

[short laurel]

I think hybe wants to do something similar to the super groups that sm has in sm town.

[copper jetty]

Wait is this alluding to the hybe gg curse or something? Am I right???

[short laurel]

Got the beat hybe edition.

[subtle matrix]

Not hybe specific but recently there have been at least 3 groups that were supposed to be 6 but ended up as 5

LSF, ILLIT and (G)I-dle

[short laurel]

In kpop it's not a debut if a gg is not in drama in debut. Especially hybe.

[subtle matrix]

Illit became 5 pre debut

[copper jetty]

I don't get that reference either.

[old cypress]

new-i-le dreams coming true

(new being katseye but it would be funny if soumu's new group had a name starting with new)

[short laurel]

Sm has/had super groups with 1 or 2 members of each gg with sololist boa n bg. Their gg super group is called girls on top with the debut got the beat. N bg super group superM

[copper jetty]

Oh ok. Got it.

[short laurel]

U can predict the group name n concept if we c what bang is interested in these days. Which artists he wants to copy

[old cypress]

https://youtu.be/D-SUY1sNs8k never forget lol

[short laurel]

Dam. Newcrazy n dreamscape are so bad.
100% bang wanted katseye but wanted to show that he's giving them freedom to choose

[old cypress]

probably but who knows, most kpop names are bad

[copper jetty]

The top pick for that is vcha. How???? Why???

[old cypress]

classic jyp

[subtle matrix]

I love them but le sserafim is such a terrible f'ing name like wth

[old cypress]

I like le sserafim it's cool

[subtle matrix]

I like aespa

[old cypress]

yeah aespa is neat

[bronze talon]

im fearless

[short laurel]

Hybe didn't plan well with lsfm. Fearnot is not good fandom name. They couldn't take fearless.
Now that i think about it. Hybe internal report dig so much about other groups yet how did hybe miss that fandom name fearless n nmixx lilly name are not available.

[subtle matrix]

I don't think fearnot is bad tbh

[short laurel]

They could've went with brave or something

[copper jetty]

I think brave is good. Fearnot is ok. Also, our fandom name "Bunnies", ngl i was weirded out on the first few months but got used to it... kept asking why not named pocketz instead?

[old cypress]

I'll pick bunnies over pocketz any day lol

[rain spade]

pocketz

[copper jetty]

It made sense to me

[rain spade]

yea, make sense since is jeans YEP

[short laurel]

fearnot just feels odd to me. still my question remains. hybe did so much research of other groups and their fandoms dramas yet how come they didn't know fearless was taken.

[copper jetty]

Idk... I don't think it's the first time that a fandom name's taken. Also fandom names aren't that known especially for solo members... maybe they lacked more research. They research more about the tea than the actual... yk.

[red thorn]

Jeans pairs well with... Sneakerz

[copper jetty]

Ooooohh that's actually a good one. 😭

[red thorn]

Or sandalz maybe

[short laurel]

fearless is fandom name of whole group. not solo member. a big group too. not some nugu. Brave girls

[copper jetty]

So Hybe should have known... but they didn't???

[short laurel]

yea

[copper jetty]

Ooooffff

[short laurel]

name lilly too. nmixx member lily is not some nugu that hybe wouldn't know of.

they even used that group when they made that disgusting video against mhj and njz. and they are JYP ent group.

also fearnot in hangul sounds like piona which means bloom. they could've went with bloom too.

[bronze jetty]

bloom is bini’s fandom, a p-pop gg 😅

[short laurel]

dam xD

[frozen bronze]

the lily thing is about bp lisa

[short laurel]

crazy they did so much research into groups hate drama but no reason into fandoms name.

[short laurel]

it's about both lisa and lilly. fandom of both were mad.

[frozen bronze]

i see

[short laurel]

learned something new today.

[hoary frost]

tbh why would they do research into fandom names of other groups tho. its not very revelant

[short laurel]

so that names not clash like it did with lsfm?

[alpine sapphire]

pocketz is more cool than bunnies.lol..........i sometimes think how they came with bunnies

[short laurel]

bunny wearing jeans. that's it

[rain spade]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-gif-13669406505701813608

[copper jetty]

Adorable??

[copper jetty]

See it's not just me.

Also, since their name was newjeans, I also wanted a name related to sisterhood of travellings pants...

But it kinda limits the fandom u know.

It's not inclusive enough.

[short laurel]

adorable representative MC for youth. Each words.

[karmic thunder]

so whats happening chat

[short laurel]

nothing much. we discovered army's fullform

[cinder verge]

is this true https://x.com/uinv_5/status/1921754770332664305?s=46&t=6Te6HiJlKHZpNJ8OJ7KFgg

✨ (@uinv_5) on X

NewJeans is starting to collapse commercially… Lotte removes them from the Pepero campaign and replaces them with Stray Kids. Korean brands are gradually cutting ties with them due to scandals and internal conflicts.

https://t.co/w7eBK3J5wf

#NewJeans
#NJZ
#StrayKids

X · May 12, 2025, 2:30 AM

[orchid field]

remove and cutting ties are exaggerated words

[empty halo]

aren't they're VOLUNTARILY inactive and on hiatus at the moment to respect the courts injunction ruling? Their contracts/ad campaigns with these brands probably ended and they haven't renewed because they're on hiatus.

[short laurel]

why are strays butting in. only contract period is coming to end and they don't how to renew since girls are against ador. besides girls said they on hiatus

[empty halo]

I don't think it's "cutting ties" as much as it is "on a break"

[short laurel]

oo god i looked at this account. why u even following them. this user targetting hanni soo much

[cinder verge]

not following just on my tl for sum reason

[empty halo]

I don't think that's a stray kids fan I've seen that account before it's just a njz anti/hybe stan

[short laurel]

yea. i saw so many hate twt towards hanni on it. why people so hellbent on bringing veitnam war into this.

[empty halo]

and the alleged political views of her family like what the fuck does that have to do with her?? Crossing a line

[short laurel]

veitnam anti's too. wth is their problem.

[empty halo]

anyways I've noticed most fandoms either dgaf about or support njz except for some very loud and aggressive fans of hybe groups

[empty halo]

Im honestly not sure about whether or not Vietnamese people actually even dislike Hanni bc it's always non-viet hybe stans talking about how viet stans don't like her. Obviously they're not a trustworthy source.

[short laurel]

actually they do hate her. vietnam stans often talk about it. i just asked them if hate increased. but it's only intl anti's who are givign those haters voice rn that's why they are more visible on twter.

[empty halo]

Its probably some very loud and aggressive viet antis. I doubt most viet people dislike her? If they do then that's very dumb. Again idk why her familys alleged political views are being used to drag her it has nothing to do with who SHE is as a person. As you said, non viet hybe antis give viet antis more visibility. Id rather ask a neutral Vietnamese person about this

Reminder : Newjeans (including Hanni) were chosen to send a video message to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Korea-Vietnam diplomatic relations

[short laurel]

mostly netizens. but hate been there since debut apparently.

[empty halo]

Thats silly then. Her family's political affiliations don't have anything to do with her.

[alpine sapphire]

we all should start a trend on reporting these antis account on youtube and x ...........because sometimes there is an urge inside me to kill person behind those account

[short laurel]

reporting on X ... i've been reporting racist slurs on it but twtt never took any action. cuz it "didn't violate their terms"

[storm warren]

Lotte contract expired last year or early this year

idk why ppl make fuss about it every single timr, newjeans no longer exists and njz halted activities. all their pre made ads are expiring and they will not renew. nobody cut ties or terminated anything, it run out

all these brands will find new models and so what

njz became pepero ambassador on sept 2023, it would expire towards the end of 2024

[hoary frost]

🤦‍♂️ right....its just contract period coming to an end. they could have cut them out before

They really want to make up a story where korean gp is against them

actually who is this account...already had them blocked

[hoary frost]

nah i have got this news from viet bunnies as well. they told me the same thing

[empty halo]

That viet people dont like hanni? Yikes. I guess it doesn't matter much she still has fans from all over the world

[hoary frost]

yea this has been a thing since a long time tbh. on anothre note why i keep on seeing armies say they are tired of this, etc like who asked them to be inserted into it

[waxen musk]

It is gonna hurt them when they aren't allowed to renew contracts during this injunction. The longer time goes on, the more contracts will expire and "move on" to other groups instead.

It is cool still seeing so many of their existing contracts with brands being shown off globally to this day. On Friday I saw Calvin Klein, Chanel and UGG ads (UGG being in a surprise random street ad), and even today I saw a different Calvin Klein shop with the girls shown in the front window (they're usually not shown in the front from what I've seen).

So far they're very relevant still, but man, we NEED that injunction appeal to move along quickly. Why is there still no date set but we have had judges assigned for more than (I think, I can't remember) a week now?

Those Coke ads with the nostalgic "I Feel Coke" feel like it went nowhere and didn't even get much attention, which was odd.

The OLENS ads seem to be so noticeable, especially in the most populated areas of Tokyo.

Not sure how things like Gucci with Hanni will go, since she was a big deal for Gucci and shown very prominently in all their promotions. But since the creative director left at a similar time to NJZ's leaving ADOR, it feels like she might be forgotten about.

Seems like on Minji and Chanel is the only luxury brand staying relevant for NJZ. The three remaining girls never got nearly as much attention.

Not sure how the Lotte ZERO snacks are doing. Is that still a thing?

And obviously there's the Essential Shampoo that current fake ADOR is using their illustrations to continue with.

Am I missing anything? Just a random Monday yap.

I will say, most of my life I've never really been a fan of or have much interest in advertising and everything, but after getting into K-pop, there is some good interesting discussions to be had around it. But also it's just really cool constantly being reminded of the NJZ girls just randomly, living my life, in my home country, or watching streamers in Japan. I probably wouldn't care if I didn't just see them all the time, to this very day. It makes me happy and I don't know how I can keep being surprised just seeing them without expectation.

Really, apart from the Blackpink girls, I don't notice ads involving K-pop idols nearly as much as I did a few years ago, with NJZ being surprisingly in like the top 3 in 2025 in terms of visibility.

[storm warren]

the contract is expired i think

[storm warren]

brands gave all members big visibility and global campaigns, except LV x Hyein. NJZ was the only group alongside BP getting lots og global campaigns and thats where money is at. Their pictorials etc was also almost always viral and got buzz

[clear hill]

Not to sound like a hater but genuinely one of the worst songs I’ve heard in a while. Hybe just keeps putting out generic songs with the style of the latest trendy beat and people keep on saying how it’s a fun hyperpop song that SOPHIE would drop. NO THE FUCK SHE WOULDNT. I have nothing against katseye but it’s not this camp post irony satirical bit people are making it out to be. This has nothing to do with katseye but the overall quality of music Hybe releases. Hybe is literally the shein of the kpop industry and I understand that following trends is what secures a hit but there’s not authenticity or backbone or substance to songs being pushed out nowadays. There’s no artistry behind it, just a quick money grab based on a formula that relies on trends and parasitic kpop stans to defend companies being sloppy with their groups.

[storm warren]

Yes, there are few articles out there where Lotte credits NJZ for massively driving sales up for their products esp Pepero. The last campaign was in Sept 2024 and thats probably when contract expired

[storm warren]

It was their last attempt to milk money before contract expiration

[clear hill]

It’s so unfortunate to waste the talent of those girls. They are seriously so talented. But groups like illit, lesserafim and katseye show the major flaw of Hybe groups. It exposes WHY Hybe doesn’t like newjeans because for a first time in kpop for a while, there’s something completely different. They pioneered the overall vibe of 5th gen and Hybe know they fumbled.

[fast snow]

Any significant updates? Haven't been paying attention for a while

[clear hill]

I love antifragile. It’s a bop but you can tell they wanted to monopolize off of Rosalia’s reggaeton moment. And then with smarter you can tell they wanted to do the same with Tyla. With crazy they wanted to do something reminiscent of electronic music (Charli). The one thing Hybe can’t do for shit is create groups with a noticeable brand. Other than BTS (I don’t really listen to bgs so I don’t speak on it much) theres not a kpop group from Hybe that stands out other than newjeans.

[mild mist]

nothing, sorry

[clear hill]

Something that always confused me is the brand deals after newjeans terminated their contract. Like hypothetically if the contract termination was invalid then wouldn’t they stop brand deals w NJZ since they would have to go through ADOR? Bc to me I saw it as proof to legitimize NJZs claims, and if the brands kept working w them afterwards while respectively using their names instead of newjeans then wouldn’t that mean newjeans had the clearance for solo activities and brand deals?

Because legally wouldn’t there be repercussions for these said brands if the contract termination was invalid to begin with?

[subtle matrix]

I'm not a fan of gnarly either (I don't hate it though) but it's a hit and that's what these labels have to aim for. We can discuss the substance but these are subjective things and I wouldn't trust myself to judge what is or isn't "authentic". It's a highly derivative industry, even newjeans, who are like the y2k group who everyone tries to copy now, didn't start the y2k trend, it had been on a steady rise for a while.

Personally I think the "trend hopping" accusation fits LSF the most but I also think the criticism is a bit excessive (I doubt they managed to produce Smart including shooting and releasing an MV in like 4 months between Water becoming a hit and Smart being released, it's most likely inspired by the general afrobeats trend and not Water specifically) and sometimes a stretch (I don't think their last 2 releases are chasing any real trends except Come Over which was co-written and produced by Jungle members). I also don't think it necessarily has to be seen as bad? I think a lot of people like LSF because they switch it up instead of keeping a strict concept

And ILLIT does seem to have a more solid concept which ofc you can argue it's because they're copying newjeans lol but personally I also don't think their concepts are that similar, obviously there's y2k inspiration but I get much more dreamy/magical girl vibes from them than newjeans

[clear hill]

I’m not saying newjeans started the y2k trend nor painting hnarly in a negative light. I feel like a lot of my criticisms may come off as that 😅 but the observations we make can’t all be categorized into bad and good. Maybe this is just me and how I feel because personally I feel like criticism should be nuanced and lack a moral high ground and come from a place simply of observation. At the end of the day concepts are simply concepts that are gathered from trends and not something created out of thin air. I just find it a trend I’ve noticed with Hybe ggs, I’m not a bg fan so I can’t say but a lack of distinct character isn’t necessarily just a Hybe offense since this is the kpop world, most groups are like that 😭 but with the most notable and distinct sounds and concepts, I feel like the reason why Hybe can’t excel in a SOLID group that isn’t simply a 4th gen group that’s doing well or excelling in a category but rather a group that is actually its own category (twice,blackpink,red velvet, g-idle), newjeans) is because of this reason

Tbh I think illit really could’ve avoided the comparison to newjeans by building a strong storyline foundation that isn’t associated to the newjeans vibe. And newjeans vibe is so distinct yet so versatile (we have attention and hype boy with a fresh and youthful feel, omg and ditto with a nostalgic and retro vibe, get up ep with very animated and bubbly,fairytale vibe) so of course such concepts could easily overlap and share similarities. So personally I think illit could go off that dreamy and whimsical vibe and even mashup jpop idol vibes to get that magical girl,shojo youthful appeal to further distance themselves from being compared to newjeans. But with that being said I can definitely see why the comparisons started rolling in when they first debuted bc for me it was very reminiscent of cool with you + asap mv 😭

I remember seeing the vogue cover and thinking how it looked exactly like the attention mv last scene. So In my opinion I definitely feel like the comparisons are justified. This is not to any way bash illit because I find them so cute but it’s such a shame to have your legacy be a shadow of another group. This criticism is definitely a HYBE criticism not the groups in any way so I’m sorry if my long tangent came out like that 😅I don’t mean to cause fanwars, I just feel like it’s worth pointing out because if newjeans were to work forcibly under ador again, illit will never escape the allegations

[subtle matrix]

Nah we're just discussing it I'm not deep into any kpop group to the point of considering myself part of the fanbase lol

[hoary frost]

Eh...katseye music does seem quite generic to me honestly...debut was a typical kpop song I feel like I've heard alot of times, touch is the typical trendy tiktok kpop song, gnarly is like the average kpop "noise music" type song with weird lyrics..I actually really like the girls ...but I am waiting for their music to have some substance

[clear hill]

I also think it’s important to make that distinction of groups as BRANDS because it further shifts the blame away from the group and towards the company that concocted this image in the first place. Because as much as we appreciate the idols who bring those concepts to life we have to remember they are created and backed up by the company, the idols involved are simply the face of the concept(s)

But yea if you look at stayc, kepler, you can definitely see that vibe that overlaps newjeans and illit yet it’s not something comparable to neither groups. I think it’s about companies sticking to a concept with no added substance or further changes due to sheer laziness and comfortability in recycling a concept due to its overall success from other groups that’s responsible for illit’s constant comparison to newjeans

[subtle matrix]

I don't know if we describe Gnarly like that after the reception it got. Admittedly I'm probably not consuming as much kpop as you guys but it definitely seems like a departure from what most groups are releasing (which makes sense bc as we were discussing earlier they're on the margins of the kpop sphere)

[clear hill]

Yeah, it’s really a shame because those girls are SO talented esp Lara and Dani. On my tt algorithm gnarly got a lot of hate and I can definitely see why-it was an Alice gao’s discarded song and if katseye didn’t have a strong fan base already, it wouldn’t have done well. This limbo Hybe puts them on that doesn’t make them recognized as a western/global gg but still within kpops proximity is what hinders their success. Theres western ggroups like flo that Hybe easily could’ve taken inspiration from but they get usual kpop noise scraps that don’t feel cohesive with their previous concepts.

[hoary frost]

Nah...it got flack for lyrics...people were saying beat is good
However kpop is known for these sort of weird lyrics. Ithink people were surprised to see this type of lyric from a multinational english language group
For me as kpop fan...there was a time where this girl crush, noisy concept was more popular...nowadays maybe not so much...but reminded me of this

[hoary frost]

Well atleast gnarly performances were great ...touch and debut performances decent but kinda generic...I really enjoyed watching the gnarly performance

Idont think illit is very trendhoppy type of a group tho. their songs are pretty consistent to me

[clear hill]

Yeah the performances always succeed because the girls are genuinely talented, touch was really cute I liked seeing sophias fancams 😭

[hoary frost]

But i wish they had done music like wjsn/oh my girl etc..their music sounds like they are kinda going on that route but stopping just before they can reach....so overall u feel abit unsatisfied with the concept they are supposedly going for...cherish my love is decent...i didnt like magnetic...its like another tiktok song..not really giving this magical girl vibe that they supposedly are

If u listen to gfriend/oh my girl/wjsn type of song. they use harmonies in order to sell an ethereal magical type of a vibe

[clear hill]

I think that consistency stems from the fact that their concept already had a solid foundation to begin with. compared to lesserafim it’s definitely much more recognizable

[hoary frost]

yeah i agree. tho ig u could says song like magnetic and ticktack is kinda modern type of a music. song with repeating chorus and easily viral on tiktok

ig u could say trendhopping in that sense

[clear hill]

And in my opinion I think that illit got lucky enough to build off of newjean’s scrapped source music concept and newjeans’s overall vibe that paved the way for 5th gen. That’s just my opinion tho, I don’t think newjeans are revolutionary bc lets be real all kpop groups are built off of western tastes 😭

[clear hill]

Yeah, it was veerry reminiscent of super shy musical wise at least for me

[clear hill]

Yeah exactly!😭😭😭😭

[hoary frost]

nah...i dont think it sounds like super shy...super shy has a melodius and soft vibe to me. magnetic/ticktack is kinda repeating inmuch more sharp way

[clear hill]

Like that magical k pop girl sound already existed, they could mixed Christian girl horse music with like jpop idol vibes to get a new and distinct sound that separates them from newjeans

[clear hill]

I’m referring mostly to the instrumentals, I feel like super shy era got a lot of flack for its lyric repetition and short length which is this trend we’re seeing with illit

[hoary frost]

supershy was repeating a sentences with that phrase tho. not just you you you or ticktack tack...dont think its similar

its common trend in kpop anyways...nothing new

[subtle matrix]

I don't think this is an accurate reading on the situation. Gnarly will be their most successful release, it's about to enter the Billboard Hot 100 (their first entry) and it's getting great numbers on spotify, over 2m streams/day (for comparison LSF is currently the most streamed kpop GG on spotify with under 5m daily streams on all their songs combined).

[clear hill]

Yeah that’s true, but I just remember ppl hating on it for that reason and claiming that newjeans super shy and Cupid created this trend of short sounds with a focus on chorus and repetition

[hoary frost]

how did cupid repeat. didnt cupid have a proper chorus with lyrics

[clear hill]

That’s what people were saying

[clear hill]

Yeah I’m not saying numbers wise, I mean overall impact

[hoary frost]

eh...tbh gnarly is doing decent. but dont ese what exactly is the target audience for katseye

looks like global group but for kpop audience all the same

[subtle matrix]

I think the industry is starting to look past target audiences tbh

[clear hill]

I’m just not sure what hybe’s plan for katseye is, i know they’re an international girl group but I feel like their fan base is kpop fans

[bronze talon]

well my dad is def NOT a kpop fan he just listens to everything that is or got popular and ofc his own genre he likes but he def listens to touch

[subtle matrix]

Like until a few years ago it made sense because it's a relatively small market so there was an effort to carve out a niche and rely on loyal fanbases that keep buying even when the group's popularity declines (e.g. Itzy and NMIXX struggle to chart in any relevant way in korea but they're still x2 or x3 platinum). Now with global audiences you don't necessarily have to do that. Western listeners especially aren't listening to full albums most of the time, they hear one hit song and add it to their playlist. Jumping from concept to concept could've meant risking to lose loyal fans in the past, but now it's just a chance to broaden the number of people who might hear one of your catchy songs

[bronze talon]

i mean if katseyes fans also like section is this then yea it makes sense. i mean they are build by a kpop entertainment lol

[clear hill]

I feel like jyp ggs are like that, I’ve noticed that

[hoary frost]

dont see the point here ngl. gg are known to be more popular with gp but having fanbase that easily waves. i know alot of gg during covid era of kpop that blew up but now nowhere to be seen. keeping fans is important

like i dont even know any bg song released recently. but their fanbase is very stable

[clear hill]

Straykids will ALWAYS be relevant somehow. I don’t even keep up w that group but it still finds a way on my algorithm. I don’t listen to any bgs

[old cypress]

lesserafim creative direction is very nice (at least aesthetically), there's good talent at soumu but they very obviously have to deal with hybe's interference which is why their songs are all over the place

I'm a big fan of hot though and I thought crazy was very very interesting too

[craggy skiff]

What should I say. These brainless kids always louder. A lot of them dont give a f about hanni's family background or what she did, they just follow the hate trend to not be left behind.
Her family case is not something rare, there are a lot of viet artists that have the same background but no one cares.
Hanni's problem is her young, pretty and famous that make these jobless jealous and try to bring her down

[craggy skiff]

Hanni family should be treated as A case study bcs their family were on opposite sides of the war but they ignored it and lived together in peace.
Instead, haters cry about it as a bad thing

More funny is even when the government newspaper callout hanni hate train is the wrong thing, hater keep ignoring that and call themself "patriot" to continue to hate hanni

https://x.com/mllsunshinne/status/1922071317093798271?t=C_q44IBFNHZJBmjcaNVGaQ&s=19

🎧 ୭ ₊ newjeans ˚. ᵎᵎ 🐇 💙🩷💛💚💜 (@mllsun...

@kookyphamz i'm Viet, born and raised and well-versed in the politics and history of what they said, and i can confidently tell you that it's just some self-righteous nationalist bullshit. they're not saying that bc they care abt the history, they just want to justify their hate

X · May 12, 2025, 11:28 PM

"Hanni is hate in vietnam" like "newjeans is flop"
Only in the hater's mind

[heady gate]

Last month, Ador said they would take legal action to protect NJ against harassment. lollololol

[upbeat stream]

Newjeans is the best charting 4th gen group in Vietnam btw. So much for Hanni being hated

[heady gate]

True. BTS is the only K-pop group with more monthly listeners than NJ in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi.

BTS has 129,306 listeners from Ho Chi Minh City and 115,298 from Hanoi.

[wary creek]

man what's wild is newjeans got so many fashion ambassador deals similar to blackpink

has any kpop groups get as many advertisement deals as newjeans

[heady gate]

yea, they got those fashion ambassador deals in less than 1 year.

[wary creek]

also deals like iphone, mcdonald's, south korean tourism etc

[upbeat stream]

As a group? Definitely not. Blackpink members, Yujin, Wonyoung, etc do have more solo deals but I don't think any group has ever had as many

[wary creek]

i hope they can continue having these deals after these trials

[mild mist]

Hopefully yeah
We need that injunction overturned. Badly.

[mild mist]

"a family member's social media account"
Really? That's how far they're having to dig? Pathetic.

[empty halo]

probably true, that's the case for most kpop stans who are young teenagers and are envious of idols lol

[empty halo]

real bro they were literally EVERYWHERE in SK, from noodle brands to beauty brands to banks to the damn airport to clothing brands

you probably couldn't walk many miles in Seoul without seeing them on an advert 💀

I doubt that all of that is gonna disappear over a contract dispute

[hollow sorrel]

looks like kim & chang cartel is slowly falling apart

[craggy skiff]

let's hope

[vapid turret]

I'm depressed fellow bunnies.

I feel that the girls will never get back to us. I miss them so much.

[leaden dragon]

maybe take a break, have faith in the girls like they do with us that’s the best thing we can do rn 😭💔

[upbeat stream]

Not even in 2029? The wait may be long but one day they will return. Have faith

[kind hill]

Whos that

[hollow sorrel]

the legal team representing HYBE in the case vs njz + mhj

they are pretty shady and are operating mostly behind the scenes,
but a legendary reporter (who was also one of the first ones to call out idols' slave contracts) made a long youtube video about them thats getting a LOT of attention in south korea right now (millions of views in days)

he points out how kim & chang is basically influencing the legal and political systems of south korea

lemme send a twitter post that explains it better

https://x.com/aarrttee01/status/1920989830760329320

.🩵 (@aarrttee01) on X

🚨🚨강추. 아래링크 49분부터 1:15분까지 25분간 꼭  보시길! The core of judicial reform is Kim & Chang!
🚨Summary of the broadcast content:
“Kim & Chang is currently completely unknown to the outside world. It is known externally as a law firm, but it is not a law firm but a legal

X · May 9, 2025, 11:50 PM

[kind hill]

Ah, I see. Thank you for the info

[clear hill]

Wait newjeans is charting in Brazil? 😭somehow not surprising but also intriguing

[clear hill]

Exactly. I remember ppl were blaming big group privileges when they first debuted bc they instantly became brand ambassadors.

[heady gate]

When I saw the picture, I thought it was an upcoming K-drama series. 😅

[clear hill]

Yea I saw that too. Crazy how they have like4000 employees? Correct me if I’m wrong simply for one lawsuit and when a brand gets involved in legal shit they form up a team and immediately get to work. It’s crazy the lengths corporations go to maintain their image even if everybody knows how shady they are.

[heady gate]

Can someone tell me, is NJ allowed to attend any award ceremony? I am not talking about performing on stage.

[mild mist]

to be fair, that's more "min heejin's address book privilege" than anything else

[copper jetty]

I bring you my anti depressant dani, my funny minji, my queen rizz hanni, kitty kang haerin and funny hyein.

I hope this brings you joy and comfort in the next few moments and days.

[stoic heron]

yeah they are pretty famous here in Brazil

[clear hill]

I have to tell my bf that😭and I swear loona is popular in Brazil too I know alto of orbits who are Brazilian

[stoic heron]

loona is super popular here too lol

actually kpop in general is really famous here

[clear hill]

the fact that the eta and why not meme originates from Brazil 😭😭😭 I love that

[clear hill]

Yeah I can tell, but I wonder what type of gg dominate in brazil, that’s really interesting

[stoic heron]

https://tenor.com/view/houseinnebraska-girls-dance-girls-having-fun-girls-going-back-and-forth-gif-8201214545796745944

[stoic heron]

hmm good question, I guess Blackpink, aespa, njz, twice

[hoary frost]

We like them a lot 😓

[clear hill]

That’s interesting,, maybe it’s about the target audience being mostly women and the lgbt community 😅

[clear hill]

that’s why Chuu is the president of Brazil

[stoic heron]

yes maybe

[stoic heron]

that's what I found around são paulo lol

[silk skiff]

probably yeah, it'll be under ador supervision though

[clear hill]

yess I saw a clip of chuu during her South American tour on Brazil, people were chanting president of Brazil 😭😭

[stoic heron]

I saw it too, I wish I was there lol

[clear hill]

Yea that’s really interesting, loona is really popular in South America

[steel depot]

any good news?

[heady gate]

Haerin's bd in 12 hours. That is the only news available.

[waxen musk]

No news, good or bad. They say no news is good news, but I disagree.

Literally just waiting for that appeal date. Don't expect anything else in the next couple of weeks.

[heady gate]

We may get the appeal date after the Korean election on June 3. I hope I am wrong.

[waxen musk]

You'd laugh if I told you when I expected a date for the appeal after their request. I was basing it on previous examples. ||I expected 9 days. ||

I've only just noticed a few people talking about it and I've not read all the news going on about what's going on in the Korean government, but I hope things change quick enough for my worries to end about things influencing the decisions made around NJZ's situation.

[vapid turret]

That's not enough I need people to redacted for rule breaking

[silk skiff]

yeah it's looking more likely that we'll get results sometime in june

[rugged dagger]

earliest 💔

could be even later

[copper jetty]

When you say redacted you meant ban right

[grizzled summit]

Any updates

[wary creek]

i keep going back and forth on how i feel about mhj

[hollow sorrel]

wdym

[orchid field]

real bunnies dont have any doubt about how they feel about her

[opaque flicker]

my glorious queen mhj

[steel depot]

[alpine sapphire]

same .....when i hear bunnies side about mhj i feel good about her my stance changes when i hear point of non bunnies against mhj i feel 50 50...i dont know much about her past..i am just hoping best for the girls ...........

[old cypress]

watch and read her interviews

[viral nexus]

yall who is tallytokki i keep seeing her on posts with njz but idk who she is

[timber shell]

fanpage on x, ig, tik tok, and etc

i heard there was some incident with her but not that deep with this one

[opaque flicker]

she deactivated everything cause a groupchat she was in leaked that her and niniz met

and nj was getting backlash how they shouldn't treat a fan as a friend and all that bullshit

I mean if I met nj I would talk ab it too but she just trusted the wrong people w that info

[alpine sapphire]

yeah i will do once my exams end

[rugged dagger]

^

[grizzled summit]

Any updates

[heady gate]

Let wait another week

[alpine sapphire]

today is haerin birthday thats the only update

[grizzled summit]

Ofc ik my dear kitty Vanessa Kang turning 19 🩷

Im gonna draw her

[alpine sapphire]

thats great....

[rugged dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/haerin-haerin-rock-haerin-newjeans-newjeans-new-jeans-gif-14487041115499321698

[clear hill]

Basically a njz defender on tt and twt who would post updates on the situation and just talking ab the situation between mhj,Hybe, the companies under hybe, njz, etc. She got exposed for saying the n word from an old tweet and a photo of her hanni and Danielle got circulated during this whole court battle n ppl basically lost their shit 💀

[upbeat stream]

The worst was how they got so much hate even in korea for this. I was wondering why because koreans have never cared about racism so I checked quotes on some korean tweets and sure enough, it was because antis somehow managed to spread the lie that taly hates illit and le sserafim

When she is literally a ssera fan and used to criticize tokkis for saying anything negative against them in her comments

[short laurel]

Now cat not need a guardian for court battle.

[waxen musk]

I used to share Taly's stuff all the time.
I've found a new (old) guy who has nowhere near as big a following but is very consistent with updates and extremely positive about NJZ who I've wanted to share but I've been hesitant to "platform" any creator after what happened with Taly.

Anyway it's not like sharing his account will change anything lol: https://www.tiktok.com/@djzippy2020

I saw some big Tokki Twitter accounts also talk about a fairly recent video he did.

[hoary frost]

Misinformation and lies spread like wildfire

[clear hill]

Yea I was gonna say that too... ppl idk why my text didn’t send but i followed them on tt and they. Never said anything bad about illit or lsrfm. She defended lsfrm when they got hate from their Coachella performance too

They were the only account that posted unbiased news about the njz situation.5$36 never hated on a group, only calling out labels and ceos.

[clear hill]

I follow this one account that’s kinda problematic (anti Hybe ggs) but their information is also reliable. I know it’s a contradiction to listen to njz defenders but when you look at the entire situation you realize how weird it is the only side that is calling out the company (mostly,can’t say for toxic fans) instead of idols who have no involvement is the side that gets the most hate.Ppl just ride hate trains instead of using their critical thinking skills nowadays.

https://www.tiktok.com/@phajeans?_t=ZS-8wMLWhl19KG&_r=1 is the account if anyone want to check it out

[hoary frost]

im tired of the stories those fandoms keep on making that all their hate trains are because of bunnies and all this and that bunnies did to their groups. they are in perpetual victim mode

[clear hill]

Exactly. And it’s exactly this victimhood that keeps companies like Hybe to stay being problematic 😭

This victimhood mentality just prevents companies from actually changing but instead forces external factors to change. Like for example when lsrfm got hated for their coachella performance Hybe released a pity documentary. If they REALLY cared about the idols working for them they would instead implement mental health resources, less stress for idols and instead of making them fit a certain mould they want those idols to fit in, actually work on strengthening their strengths so they shine in their own individual way.

Hybe completely sets these idols up to fail because they use their idols as shields in controversies. The fact that MHJ in her first emergency press conference stated that this was an adult issue and not the illit members fault yet belift, source and Hybe kept bringing up illit and lsrfm up and avoiding accountability show you their real company morals. It’s sick

[hoary frost]

they try to say njz is the whole reason for lsf and illit hate train. which is just so dumb on so many levels
lsf had troubles since before njz even debuted. and that coachella thing is like totally unrelated to njz
and illit is survival show gg. ppl were salty about alot of different things. and ppl naturally said they are similar to njz. it's not like only bunnies were saying this ( u can say urself, does this have merit or not). but it wasn't like some niche thing ...like everyone was saying it
and ofc the encore stuff was unrelated to njz. this sounds like a deflection on their part.

I myself never said illit is like njz or whatever...but this was a prominent thing

[clear hill]

I only brought up the coachella situation to make a connection to hybe’s weaknesses. They went on hiatus then out of nowhere then Hybe just released a documentary. The only good thing they did is taking legal action against those who made hate comments against the group but I feel like that’s just the bare minimum.

[hoary frost]

I think there's issue in hybe training tbh. how come both their groups had these issues

[clear hill]

All to say that it’s all hybe’s fault for the reputation lesserafim has. Those girls are EXTREMELY talented yet Hybe had a certain image for their group that unfortunately makes it hard for each of the members to shine other than yunjin (imo).

[hoary frost]

really...? i think they all shine fine tbh. i think theres some issue in the training. most of the groups sound strained for some reason...to the point i find it a pattern

[clear hill]

Like I said if they really cared about these idols like they pretend to be they wouldn’t force a certain image/mould onto these girls and simply work with their strength and weaknesses rather than against them.

[hoary frost]

From their encore i could see that chaewon and minju were singing nice and clear. and both are not originally from hybe

[hoary frost]

oh btw i wasnt saying unrelated to njz to you, i was saying to people who said njz /hanni is the reason for hate train

[clear hill]

A lot of ppl say that Hybe ruined their vocals. And I agree. I was not familiar w izone or the survival shows the girls were in but there is a difference (imo) from them before Hybe and after Hybe

[hoary frost]

eh...tbh i dont think theres much difference in that sense for the izone girls

[clear hill]

Yea chaewon is a solid ace and I don’t really feel like the criticisms fit her. She’s an all rounder!

[hoary frost]

ppl bring up that sakura performance to say her vocals before were like much better an dhybe ruined. but that was a lipsynced performance. actually she was jpop idol who focus way less on vocals

[clear hill]

Yea I remember. But I don’t think that’s the issue. I think Hybe (and companiesin general) just keep pushing idols to sing above their vocal range.

[hoary frost]

Tbh all of them are quite talented. Chaewon probably already built up her vocal foundation so she didn't have thos issues. i think this is a total hybe issue. they should train their idols vocals a bit and make sure they can handle live to ensure they dont get more hate trains

[hoary frost]

tbh i find this vocal range thing kinda a weird excuse...the songs seemed in quite a normal range to me

there is sometihng else at play here

[clear hill]

Like in twice momo got a lot of hate for her encores but that’s because she never really fit this cute concept and obviously with her already nasally tone a higher vocal range is just gonna highlight her weaknesses. It’s good now that in their mature concepts momo can sing in her natural vocal range comfortably

[clear hill]

Yea it’s def a combination of lots of things. Personally I think vocal wise Hybe is just not good at giving songs that makes ALL members shine

[hoary frost]

I saw alot of illit fan saying they wanted dark concept for group bcuz they shined doing that in predebut...dont know how true that is )didnt watch ru next) but its a common sentiment

[clear hill]

They are all talented, so talented. The right company highlights an idol’s strengths and works around their weaknesses and gives them concepts that they all fit.

[hoary frost]

actually i saw like a short of them doing dark concept...looked quite decent...think they could do a darker verison of their concept like cherish my love but with a bit more dark vibe

[clear hill]

Omg don’t even get me started on illit.. I feel so bad for yunah. She does NOT fit in that group’s concept, she shines in a concept like aespa or something more mature 😭

[clear hill]

I feel like if they went that way they would just look even more like a njz copy. If they went full on with their girly magical girl sparkly concept they could really separate themselves from njz

[hoary frost]

nah how. im imagining like a dark fantasy thing. thats completely disconnected from njz

[clear hill]

Idk I feel like that’d just look like ASAP music video 😭

[hoary frost]

wonhee also kinda looks like a doll...ppl said they changed concept for wonhee but she would fit quite well into this kinda dark fantasy concept

[hoary frost]

nah asap music video is not really dark fantasy type of a thing...im imagining something abitmore creepy

actually idk if im even using this dark fantasy word correctly. but people said illit has like a type of creepy vibe in thebackground of their songs, cherish my love has a specific type of vibe i think would fit if they went that type of route

[clear hill]

I feel like ASAP mv was pretty creepy, I don’t think illit would ever do something so bold like full creepy concept so if they were to do that they would definitely incorporate more cute vibes to balance it out

[hoary frost]

asap mv was ethereal and whimsical

[clear hill]

There were frames and scenes that def gave creepy/whimsical fairy gloomy vibes

[hoary frost]

well true

oh this made me think of cool with you. i would love njz to do another concept like that. that song is so underrated

angels watching over

[subtle matrix]

i think this is a total hybe issue. they should train their idols vocals a bit and make sure they can handle live to ensure they dont get more hate trains

You can have all the vocal training in the world but something will go wrong some day, it just happens. Coachella is in the middle of the f'ing desert and known for having all sorts of audio issues in week 1 (literally every year I see artists being criticised for their week 1 performance and then people saying "omg week 2 was so much better"), shit will happen.

This isn't a hybe issue, it's a kpop (fandom) issue. If a group has some shaky moments (which they all do), they can't sing. Or the backtrack is too loud, or they're lipsyncing. If people can't complain about the singing then it's the songs that suck. If the songs don't suck it's that they don't fit the group, or they're too different, the group doesn't have a concept. If the group has a concept, it's overdone, they're just copying that other group. If it's not any of those, it's the oversexualisation of the minors. Nothing applies? Oh right that one member was seen drinking starbucks she must be a zionist

[hoary frost]

im not just talking aobut coachella actually. im talking about hybe artist encores that consistentlyhave this sort of weird strained singing

[subtle matrix]

You can say that hybe doesn't focus on vocals as much as other labels which is probably true

[hoary frost]

I understand u are singing and dancing at the same time in coachella so its not an accurate understanding

But i have just seen this pattern over and over in hybe encores. and no dont give me that encores are supposed to be for fun. there were obvious vocal ability issues

[hoary frost]

nj1 was maybe supposed to have fairytale concept

[clear hill]

Yeah but that was under source music. I wonder why mhj decided to scrap that for their debut. But there’s nothing I would change bc their fresh concept was soooo good and a breath of fresh air

[hoary frost]

no i mean they had teaser for nj1 didnt they. and it was fairies and stuff (like their first full album)

[clear hill]

Ur right but i don’t things should simply be categorized into black and white. Fandom culture sucks but at the same time we can’t deny companies take this to their advantage because they don’t actually care about the individual. They care about whether an individual can fit their concepts. Companies spend money on cosmetic enhancements before debuts, make their idols go thru selfie training and other weird and unnecessary training to ensure they fit the image they want to show to the public eye.

[clear hill]

Ohhh yea. I didn’t see the teasers 😓 send me links plssss

[clear hill]

Ugh rewatchinf this mv really makes me wish NJZ were still active bc they all fit so well in a concept like this >.<

[hoary frost]

ppl speculate this is nj1 teaser

[clear hill]

Nope that’s the teaser for newjeans under source music

[hoary frost]

i think their season greetings of 2025 was also fairy themed

[hoary frost]

whaaat...this was during a preformance of theirs no

and it had a fairy setup in it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsZQ8x6i7U

[clear hill]

Wait ur right oops>.< it just looked familiar to the bighit auditions teaser concept newjeans were supposed to originally have

[hoary frost]

oh can u show me that. i think i didnt see this

[twin cypress]

but wonhee didn’t lol and hybe clearly wants the group to be her group

[clear hill]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSh9dSjkd/

Idky I can’t find it on google but this teaser is basically supposed to be newjeans original concept

[subtle matrix]

Of course labels should be doing everything possible to put their artists in the best position to be successful and they often fail to do so, I won't argue against that. I'm just saying that I won't blame the labels for the hate trains (except in some very specific situations) because 1. the fandom culture is toxic as hell and there will always be something that leads to these hate trains and 2. even if some group absolutely sucked at singing they still wouldn't deserve the sort of abuse that some groups receive online

[clear hill]

I agree ur 100% right. No amount of bad singing can ever justify hate trains. I just personally feel like Hybe as a company should do a better job at strengthening their idols personal strengths instead of forcing them into a mould/concept. It’s not an idol’s fault they don’t fit in a certain concept and that’s okay and Hybe should take into account each member’s personal strengths and weaknesses so they can all shine.

[hoary frost]

Ohh interesting

[hoary frost]

Ofc they never deserved any of the abuse even if they couldnt hold a single note (not saying that they cant, im saying if before anyone misunderstands). im just saying hybe vocal training seems a bit weird

altho labels cant control hate trains. if u send ur group and theyre unprepared for encores...that can be a huge issue for them..even if they do decent or ok encores in future that could follow them...so its good to avoid those situations as a label even if u cant control all aspects of hate trains

[waxen musk]

People focus too much on very limited parts of one performance and don't look at the whole context or even consider other performances, all because it's just ammo used in fan wars. I'm not sure why the topic is revisited so often.
I see it happen with the rare "iffy" NJZ performance too, even though we all know overall they're incredible in most aspects.

[hoary frost]

idont think its just ammo used for fanwars. i think alot of people were shocked by those encores...both kr and glb and that didnt leave a good impression for people. ofc each group had bad performances that is weaponized or moments are clipped..but in this caseidont think its the same

i think the coachella thing was overplayed tho ngl...must be hard to dance and sing with such a complictaed choreo...

[waxen musk]

Again, people are focusing on one point in time instead of their full work. It's not like any of these groups you're potentially talking about consistently perform poorly. Yes, they're more inconsistent than they should be, but people are just so focused on these things in a very weird way.
I'm not happy to be defending any Hybe groups because I have chosen not to support them when so much horrible shit is happening with the people behind Source and Belift against NJZ (NOT THE GIRLS).
My point is that for as valid the "shock" of these moments are in the moment (encores and Coachella), that for them to be all they're remembered by is extremely unfair, and again, have proven themselves to perform well.
I won't lie, I can't think of many groups other than the ones we're talking about now, where people might think about their poor performances, so I get it. (lmk if I'm forgetting any past groups where this has been an issue before)
But I really strongly think it's all just bullshit going on in the fandoms more than anything.

Anyway it's not like it's hard for me to not support these groups because their music doesn't stick with me. But clearly it does for enough people so they're doing something right, even if everything could be better.

[hoary frost]

They do perform well. The question is when they are put into encores, a place where you just have to sing,100% live...what is the result there...?
You make a group of girls from survival show and their encores are like this. It's going to obviously put them in a negative light. And tbh i have seen this pattern of hybe singing and others have as well. Idk if it's just cherrypicking in this case
Now they didn't deserve those terrible remarks ofc.

[waxen musk]

I really do think it's because they have so much focus and a lot of popularity. And it's because what we're all familiar with because it's what we see when we as NJZ fans go on Twitter, whether we want to or not.

It's why I asking anyone to let me know if this has been an issue with past groups, because honestly I don't know (I've not been into K-pop for that long).

I don't think a lot of current K-pop groups are impressive, vocally. But that doesn't stop me from really enjoying most new K-pop releases (girl groups at least).

[hoary frost]

well ive watched quite alot groups encores because honestly i enjoy watching them more than performances. truth is their encores were just quite bad

[hoary frost]

issue of what? hate for encore?

[waxen musk]

Just like we're talking about now, not just encores. I think I've heard Blackpink and aespa having dodgy festival performances in the past too. But we know they're really good performers.
I don't think I'm convincing you in my thought about how it's about popularity and fandom wars, but lets leave it there. You're just repeating yourself and I'm starting to sound like a defender of these groups I don't care about just to make a point.

I do worry about these opinions having formed in a lot of fandoms just out of repetition and seeing the same points brought up all the time.

Would any of us care about these encores usually? No. So why do a lot of us seem to care about them now?

Really think about why you know about these issues. Why they were blown up so much that they cloud these groups forever. Consider the same type of thing for the groups you do actually love, and if it's fair or not.

Anyway sorry I feel like I got away from the points about if or if not HYBE is the one to be blamed for all of this and I think the obvious answer is yes. All it is is unpreparedness. When they're prepared, they're good. But again, for the last time, it wouldn't be a real issue without the way haters in fandoms operate. They're relentless.

And now we can't even be sure if these haters are manufactured by the very company trying to use them for their own advantage but also get friendly fire and hurt themselves.

[waxen musk]

I should have just left it here with my original message and not yapped so much. Oh well.

[subtle matrix]

They had one like absolutely atrocious encore but others were absolutely fine tbh

[hoary frost]

Yeah i would care. like i said i enjoy watching encores more than the normal type of performances. it had already been a discussion of how 4th gen+ idols are neglecting singing for dancing before these encores tbh...so this isnt a new point madeup just for these groups

[hoary frost]

who lsf? it wasnt just one in both their cases.

[subtle matrix]

illit

[hoary frost]

nah i do remember another illit magnetic encore having same issue

[waxen musk]

Are both of these groups good in these regards nowadays or is this still a problem? It's been months or like a year since all this talk.

[hoary frost]

eh...i wouldnt say good...but their encores are not awful anymore

[subtle matrix]

LSF only had one encore recently which was ok, illit hasn't had any since the magnetic era

[hoary frost]

i remember one of their encores was not so bad(illit)

[subtle matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E00Xc3qRiyk this encore was not bad period

[waxen musk]

I compare it to game companies these days releasing unfinished buggy games that over the course of a few months get patched and less buggy.
Obviously it's a problem.

And HYBE treats them as products and like a game company does, so the analogy is kinda perfect.

The question is why they're in a rush to put out these "products" too early...
That's the REAL question...

[hoary frost]

oh you are right. i heard they are debuting a new bg..?

[waxen musk]

I think they're very deliberate with their timing and strategies. I mean MHJ said as much in her press conferences regarding LSF specifically.

[hoary frost]

well...still can see issues
but yes illit looks like they have great room for improvement. i think theres also confidence issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeufXpt3P_Y i think alot of 3rd gen fans and earlier have these sorts of expectations...crying and jumping but sounding like this

[waxen musk]

It might just be as simple as HYBE thinking they can get away with an unpolished "product" and make money from it. It's worked out for them. I don't see anything changing if all of this still makes money for them. A poor encore isn't affecting their business. The LSF Coachella performance seemed like it could have actually put a dent in LSF's popularity but they're still very popular.
I think HYBE don't care and they'll continue to what they're doing now.

[hoary frost]

nah tbh it wouldnt put dent on their popularity. u know what they say that bad publicity is good publicity. aespa and blcakpink are the groups ive seen with huge hate train like u mentioned (aespa hate train was really huge at debut as well)...these things dont matter for popularity

[waxen musk]

I just wonder what actually matters in this discussion.
Obviously what matters for the fans and what matters for these cold business focused companies is very different, but can overlap.

[subtle matrix]

I just wonder what actually matters in this discussion.

Well, nothing

[waxen musk]

[subtle matrix]

That terrible encore by illit on the show was their first win for magnetic

They won another 11

Magnetic was still one of (maybe the?) most successful debut singles in recent years

They're still one of the most streamed ggs

[waxen musk]

Yeah, feels like nothing was a global hit since then tbh, in K-pop. (Other than the obvious Blackpink solo songs.)

I'm still longing for something new, from a new group (or old tbh) that just hits worldwide that isn't an obvious thing like it is for BP (or will be for BTS soon).

It feels like as time goes on, the chances of this happening feel less and less.
However if you think about all these hits, especially NJZ, things happen VERY fast, and are unpredictable.
These cold business focused companies are trying to manufacture this global success but I think it's extremely volatile and random.

Obviously it helps if the music and everything else is amazing.

[clear hill]

In my opinion companies are focusing more on visuals than actual talent nowadays. This isn’t the idols fault. When we make observations we shouldn’t assume it’s inherently negative.

[waxen musk]

I have a challenge for you: list all the global K-pop hits excluding BP and BTS. It'll be like a few LSF songs, Magnetic, and like Cupid, and NJZ songs. That's IT for the last 3 years.

[subtle matrix]

People talking about bad vocals occasionally or overwhelming backtracks or lipsyncing or whatever wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't even be discussing it if this wasn't constantly being used as fuel for childish fanwars. You think this group can't sing cool they're still stars getting fat paychecks. But then you go on their socials or forums or whatever and it's comment after comment just railing on them and it's kinda sad

[clear hill]

Critique shouldn’t be an excuse to hate either. Debut is all about visuals and concepts nowadays but kpop in 2nd gen compared to kpop now are drastically different. The decline in quality is due to companies prioritizing visuals over talent. This shouldn’t be up to debate. And pointing things like this out shouldn’t be labeled as “hate” bc this has nothing to do w the idols but the companies

[clear hill]

Nobody, run devil run, gangnam style,

[waxen musk]

Yeah like I said, just "early access" releases.

[subtle matrix]

I mean, arguable. "Moka you can't sing but no hate it's not your fault it's hybe's"

[waxen musk]

Much harder to think of anything in the past 5 years.

[hoary frost]

I mean lets say she can't sing. not saying she can or cant. should we just lie and say she can?\

singing isnt the only job for kpop idols

[subtle matrix]

There's a lot of wiggle room here

[clear hill]

Also another thing, kpop companies literally recruit young girls they see in public who are good looking and scout them. As well as influencers online. So it’s really understandable when you take into consideration the culture that enforces this.

[hoary frost]

lsf songs u r talking about are perfect night and that song act like an angel dress like crazy?

[subtle matrix]

Generally when I think an artist isn't talented enough I simply don't consume their product instead of commenting on it at length

[hoary frost]

if we see a trend in new groups. ppl will comment on it. thats all

people noticed it before these encores saying 4th gen is just focused on dance

this is something since the very start of 4th gen ppl noticed

[clear hill]

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I said companies force concepts and moulds onto idols instead of actually working with the strengths of the group together which is why they end up getting criticized for poor performance. If moka couldn’t sing then they should’ve made her a rapper. Or maybe sing parts of the song that are more suitable for their vocal ranges. This is what I mean when I say working with the idols’ strengths.

[waxen musk]

Groups used to have members with clearly definied roles. Does that still happen these days, or is everyone supposed to be a jack of all trades now?

[hoary frost]

oh yeah this is a new thing. roles are no longer as important as they used to be. it used to be a clear marketing of roles

[waxen musk]

Would you say that dance has gotten better since 4th gen, though? If so, we've gained something at the same time as losing something else. Depends what people are looking for if they're happy about this or not.

[subtle matrix]

These discussions always progress into this lol we're talking about different things tbh

[clear hill]

I think nuance should be required when having discussions and making criticisms. Also, not everything is black and white. I’m not saying idol can’t sing=not talented I’m just saying as a company you are responsible for the development of your idols’ skills. Hybe literally has all the resources to ensure their artists can work on their skills and improve. They just refuse to accommodate for the individual idols strengths and weaknesses.

[hoary frost]

eh....i mean look at group like gfriend. their dances were really good and their singing was topnotch as well...sure u could say choreo is harder now...but thing is that people miss the times vocals were more important in kpop

[clear hill]

But that’s what I’ve always been saying 😭 I’m literally just repeating myself

[subtle matrix]

All of us are

[waxen musk]

People have preferences. (eg imo instrumental production and vocal production - more than vocal ability - is MOST important to me)
Anyway I enjoy this yap for yap's sake talk we're having but it's not going in a very clear direction.

[subtle matrix]

I think we all agree that commenting on this is not necessarily wrong and we also all agree that a lot of people take the criticism way too far

[clear hill]

If you scroll up and read what I said you can see that’s what I’ve been saying. I don’t wanna come off as entitled or harsh but that’s literally just what I’m saying

Yeah,criticism shouldn’t define an idol. It’s dehumanizing, people lack empathy nowadays the way they treat idols.

[hoary frost]

well sure...but tbh it doesnt sound good when u hear ur favourite group sing live and it sounds completely different than what we expected...

[waxen musk]

Again... preferences!

[hoary frost]

idk whats preferences about this ngl

[clear hill]

At the end of the day idols are humans and the way some people treat them online is really apathetic. Criticism shouldn’t be an open invitation to borderline harassment and hate.

[subtle matrix]

I've been to shows where the vocals were incredible but the show itself was boring as hell and I've been to shows where the vocals were weak but the energy was incredible and I had a lot of fun

[hoary frost]

Issue is that people think their words online mean nothing and treat idols like dolls or cartoon characters

theres also eye for an eye mentality. well u could say its just fanwars. but its not like idols are blind to whats being said aobut them

[clear hill]

Yeah exactly. W the njz situation it’s so sad seeing fans watch their own favourite groups be hated on and then decide to hate on another group.

[hoary frost]

im not talking about critcism but people genuinely being cruel

[clear hill]

Like wake up people, you’re just reinforcing this cycle.

[subtle matrix]

I think deep down they know but they're just looking for an excuse to be mean

[clear hill]

Yeah that’s the sad part

[red thorn]

No more, just some members with strong vocal or dance or visual by fans
not clearly or officially defined/presented
I believe big group like aespa contribute this kind of image in the industry

[waxen musk]

Exactly. I can enjoy NJZ's performances more than anybody elses not because they're the best dancers or vocalists in the industry. There's a million examples of better. But it's the culmination of a million things that make you enjoy a performance or not.
That's why I say preferences are a thing, some people would very much appreciate and enjoy a performance that you described are amazing vocals but "boring".
Nobody's ever going to agree on all these things we're dicussing.
It's why there are fans of groups with "bad" vocals.
We've said it before in this discussion but people really need to stop spending thier time on things they hate.

[clear hill]

People just want to justify their hatred against an idol/group. Like cancel culture tends to do this a lot too. It takes one thing to trigger a hate train then it just becomes a snowball of reasons why we hate this person and it’s the most minuscule things and it gets to a point where it’s not even criticism it’s just excuses to call this person bad

[subtle matrix]

What makes it even more mind blowingly stupid is that most of these idols are friends with loads of other idols from other groups

[waxen musk]

Not to say haters should get away with hating all the time, but also sometimes I wish people could just agree to disagree with some of this hate disguised as criticism and just enjoy what they want. They should also be able to recognise their fav's weaknesses and not be so defensinve and go on the attack all the time. It leads to a cycle of neverending attacks.
I'm asking for the impossible btw... I've given up hope of peace.

[clear hill]

Yesss exactly. Like people push their own narratives onto these idols bc it’s easier to get views and likes but these idols are literally friends 🥲

[hoary frost]

Lol right

[hoary frost]

ppl already doing this with hanni and yunjin...

[subtle matrix]

fandoms fighting online while their faves are going to concerts together

[clear hill]

Like nayeon and jennie, hanni and yunjin, wonyoung and the rest of the izone girls, etc. It’s so sad like you don’t know these ppl irl leave them alone !!!!

[hoary frost]

and mostof these hate trains are towards female idols

[subtle matrix]

But like I mentioned before my favourite is jungkook vs jimin fanwars while they're on weekend getaways together giving each other massages

[clear hill]

Yea omg that pissed me off so much. I wish idols could just live in peace with each other without fans and companies making it a competition and creating tension.

[waxen musk]

People don't know what's going on in the real life of these idols, and never will. I'm saying obvious things.

[hoary frost]

oh the solo stan fanwars. im seeing it with blackpink too. despite i think blackpink couldve just stayed away from eachother (all their solo careers going very succesful) but decide to support eachother

[waxen musk]

So much lack of respect for the people they claim to love.

[hoary frost]

ppl have their narratives and want to stick to it

[wary creek]

love and respect are not the same i guess :/

[wary creek]

haven't they done the fairy concept already

[wary creek]

maybe.. wasn't there like an internal document leak in hybe that either condoned or promoted hate

[stiff prairie]

anything good these days update chat?

[short laurel]

all gg debuted in 2019 except for itzy disbanded.

[stiff prairie]

disband kpop until newjeans are back

[short laurel]

man i again seeing people this time hybe stans comparing kpop idols with non idol jpop artists. poor ado

[compact creek]

the tiktok account u recommended really helped and showed me even more info i missed out on

[eternal ibex]

what does ado have to do with kpop idols i swear ppl just mention anything for the hell of it

justice for ado 💔

[short laurel]

i didn't read much and closed the app but my guess is cuz ado produced a jpop idol group. Phantom Siita is after all hybe japan's competition.

Phantom Siita intl are more visible than last year.

[hoary frost]

its quite disgusting how entitled kpop fans are. i just saw a bunch of them crying how njz ruined everything and how much they liked their music but they turned out to be brats or whatever. i mean who said you are entitled to their music

[short laurel]

ooh those are little 7's and other hybe stans. they were never into newjeans (other than when newjeans debut for hybe vs sm drama)

[hoary frost]

instead of crying why dont they listen to their own groups

or the music is that mid

[clear hill]

Yayyy I’m glad! Even I’m finding out more info the more I look thru that Account

[short laurel]

i personally like some of their music ngl. but only some. i find rest mid. :v

[hoary frost]

i dont mean its literally mid. but like why are they acting as if njz is the only group on earth and they'll die if they dont get more songs if they dislike them so much because of other groups?

[vital orbit]

😭😭😭

[short laurel]

hybe stans. or rather kpop stans. build on hating other groups.

[hoary frost]

but how is this so widespread. they do know whos behind it at all right...?

like how kpop fans keep on repeating this...dont get it

they hate mhj but then pretend like they would die without her work...how is it making any sense

[short laurel]

industry is build on that from what i learned.

i've heard about kpopies making alot of dumb n very loud drama as back as gen 1 kpop groups.

[subtle matrix]

Probably is born from the hyper competitive south korean culture itself

It's like this meme irl

Idol culture and its parasocial aspect is certainly a part of it too

[hoary frost]

TMZ claims that Justin Bieber is broke and owes millions of dollars to his former manager, Scooter Braun.

After the cancellation of the "Justice" tour in 2022, Bieber was left with a debt of $24 million to the production company AEG, which had advanced him $40 million.

To cover the loss, Braun's company, Hybe, paid off the debt, and Bieber agreed to repay the amount in installments over ten years, but stopped payments after the first installment.

Sources close to Braun say that Bieber claimed he didn't have the money to pay off the debt, while his team re-examined the finances and concluded that the manager had received an excess of $26 million in commissions.

Hybe hired independent auditor, PWC, which, after six months, concluded that the singer actually owed around $8.8 million to the manager.

The PWC report was obtained by TMZ, but Bieber's team also conducted its own audit, the results of which have not been released.

[short laurel]

some koreans send their kids stanrting 3 years old in special coching classes.

[clear hill]

Idk if anyone has sources or if it e it’s but if anyone does can someone send mhj l0lita/p word claims/gr00ming claims being debunked?Or/And her clarifying the cookie controversy bc this is the only thing I can’t wrap my head around

[short laurel]

hybe's independent auditor. yea very trustworthy. this could go to court.

[short laurel]

i'll just say that cookie lyrics to many of us seemed normal. the fact people found it weird atleast to me only shows how people's minds are. iirc ador said similar thing too.
cookie only is bad word in very certain context in some corner of western world. no one would've known or cared about it if haters were not so dam loud about that bs. i doubt mhj even know about it be4 the drama.

[hoary frost]

in sk baking a cookie apparently means burning cd

[short laurel]

it's hate was and still is so forced.

[hoary frost]

i think in kr people didnt intepret it this way

[short laurel]

i didn't even know people had problem with the song until this hybe started acting up publically last year.

[clear hill]

Tbh i don’t really agree. I remember when the first debuted and cookie came out I was really shocked because there IS a major innuendo. Also MHJ has always been very open about her inspiration from western artists.“Come and take a lookie” “but you know that it ain’t for free” go look up the lyrics for cookie. I genuinely do not buy it bc if cookie was supposed to be like ice cream blackpink or some other desert/food kpop song I doubt the lyrics would be so suggestive/bold

[hoary frost]

im just saying that in kr the slang is that baking a cookie is burning cd

and apparently kr people didnthave issue with it

[upbeat stream]

blackpink? wdym?

[hoary frost]

which most of the lyrics in that song are kr

[clear hill]

They def incorporated that in the Mv but lyrically there is no implication. I also think MhJ is smart enough to distinguish between the two bc of her deep knowledge and overall passion for western music. Just listening to NJ alone you can hear samples, niche hip hop genres as well as the dance style.

[upbeat stream]

Ice Cream is very openly sexual, not even suggestive. Everyone knows it

[clear hill]

The song w Selena Gomez that’s like look so good yea look so sweet and the ice cream truck mv set 😭am I making this up?

Yea I think the implication between sweet deserts and sexual innuendos is already there to begin with. But I honestly can’t wrap my head around how cookie WAS so bold w it

[hoary frost]

well...i mean lyrics are playing off of the baking a cookie thing

im not trying to say the lyrics are this or that
just saying that the cookie part isnt from nwohere

[upbeat stream]

Well, Ylva Dimberg knows the truth. Perhaps someday she will clarify completely, one way or the other

[clear hill]

Yeah I know. I just feel like the hype boy Lolita concept for Danielle and the cookie thing is something I can’t ignore

[neon igloo]

The ice cream was simply used as a way to show that they were "living" in a sweet fairytale kingdom. There was no sexual context. Like the NJZ song, there are LITERALLY COOKIES ROLLING IN THE MV

[hoary frost]

hype boy lolita concept..? what is that

[upbeat stream]

What lolita concept?

[clear hill]

There’s a book called called Lolita and the movie adaptation looks strikingly similar to Danielle’s outfit/concept. I’ll find pictures

[upbeat stream]

That style is super popular though, pretty common across kpop and the west

[flint stone]

also cookies transformed to cds

[neon igloo]

that's was a film too, but at that time the choker and this hairstyle were just a huge trend + you can see other styles of Danielle in the mv where she does not look like a lolita at all

[clear hill]

I definitely can’t unsee it tho. Doesn’t mean I odnt love these songs/don’t support newjeans

[neon igloo]

Tying hair style to something specific is wrong

[hoary frost]

Can u send it

[hoary frost]

which blackpink? they say "if u know what i mean " in that song or ur talking about cookie mv

[clear hill]

Yes obviously the style is vague enough to be ignored but MHJ is a creative director. As someone who works in a similar line of work this doesn’t go unnoticed esp from a seasoned creative director like mhj. Who knows, maybe she doesn’t know this implication but I just don’t buy that it’s just a massive coincidence

[upbeat stream]

As I said, it's really common because of how big of a trend it is. Don't people say the same about bloomers and a bunch of other trends?

[hoary frost]

is it about this outfit..?

[neon igloo]

then we need to ban braided hairstyles, because they are often used in 18+ films, lol

[upbeat stream]

Just do one thing, search lolita fashion on pinterest, you'll realize how much of contemporary fashion aesthetic is inspired by that

[neon igloo]

people are imagining things that just aren’t in the music video. If you try to find hidden meanings in everything, then you could find something inappropriate in any video just because a similar scene was once portrayed strange or sexually in some movie or game

[hoary frost]

i think that lolita fashion doesnt have the same orgin

but i dont get what is the reference with this outfit

[neon igloo]

so we have the same hairstyle, and so what?

[clear hill]

I feel like there’s definitely nuance that shouldn’t be ignored when discussing things like this. You can’t just disregard the entire things because of a certain implication but you shouldn’t hinder conversations and criticisms surrounding patterns and observations esp in pop culture.

[hoary frost]

Well...i think this hairstyle is quite popular tho...
im not saying it couldnt be inspired, im mainly meaning to say i think its not similar to the point i find it insanely striking or that i can say without a doubt
if it was meant to be a true look alike, wouldnt they add the sunglasses..the choker is also completely different thing

[clear hill]

Bloomers aren’t inherently s3xual in nature though. The only reason they were sexualized is bc their correlation to women’s garments. Bloomers were also often worn underneath dresses.Historically speaking bloomers come from women refusing to wear restricting and uncomfortable pieces of clothing from the era.

[hoary frost]

there are enough differences

[flint stone]

Who seeks will always find, with that logic MVs should be just black screen because hair stile/food or background was in some film

[clear hill]

Yea that’s true. I just saw the parallels in both scenes and can’t ignore the similarities 😅

[hoary frost]

i was expecting something like 100% striking when u said that. dont really see it like that

[clear hill]

But at the day, it might just be a coincidence, we don’t know personally other than speculations

[neon igloo]

No, we’re talking about the same thing here. If someone wants to see something inappropriate or reads into what they think they saw - they will. Because that’s their own subjective interpretation.

There’s not a single reference to Lolita in the lyrics or MV. That comparison was clearly create and forced just because of symmilar hairstyle

[hoary frost]

i honestly dont think it looks striking enough for it to supposed to be a direct reference

[clear hill]

Like I said. There’s nuances and cultural context involved. There is no black and white. Criticism shouldn’t be shunned because it is taboo.

[hoary frost]

yeah thats true. in the end we dont know the true meaning

[opaque flicker]

if you find anything remotely sexual about those it's literally on you, you're just agreeing with a bunch of delulu haters who made up some narratives to hate on them and mhj cause that's what haters do, yall looking too much into something that's simply not there 😭

[clear hill]

That’s fair enough. You’re not wrong but I’m not wrong either . You’re right, if you look for something you will convince yourself enough everything is a sign but with that being said when cookie cane out I don’t think people were looking for something to begin with.

[hoary frost]

i think fashion trends get recycled enough that this was a coincidence. this lollipop and hairstyle were popular things as well. i really dont think it was meant to be inspired

[opaque flicker]

also I think it's time we move on from this topic

as it makes no sense

and they're just normal mvs

mhj is not grooming anyone

[subtle matrix]

When I was in Korea last year we'd get the bus back to the airbnb at like midnight and the majority of people there were teens leaving their study rooms. It weirded me out

[upbeat stream]

I don't know why the government doesn't ban these cram schools. Every country where this is a problem should do it

[hoary frost]

they will never do that

[hoary frost]

yeah hype boy mv is totally normal. idk why this niche reference would be put in it...?

[opaque flicker]

it absolutely blows my mind how far people go about cookie and hype boy like dude what???

[subtle matrix]

Even if they do will it do much to curb the hyper competitive school culture over there? Idk. But it's a really serious issue

[short laurel]

U got that from twter post. I've seen it. It's a stretch. U can make same weird thing out if so many kpop stuff

[clear hill]

As a njz stan and defender, you are completely missing my point because my point was never to “side” with the haters. Its simply an observation and I feel like amidst the controversies surrounding MHJ’s concepts it’s a conversation that is often discussed. It shouldn’t be automatically met w “oh you saw something s3xual in something you’re a p3do” this rhetoric is just harmful and counterproductive EVEN for NJZ/MHJ.

[hoary frost]

thing is why would they find this school culture an issue

it benefits them

[upbeat stream]

No, but cram schools are so much worse. Kids come home from school tired and then spend 4-5 additional hours there. It's inhumane and should be prohibited

[opaque flicker]

if you weren't siding with the haters you wouldn't be discussing this rn

[hoary frost]

i think its important to discuss doubts. imo they are explained which i did..clear misinformation from the root

[subtle matrix]

Weird logic

[hoary frost]

i dont really see why especially in hype boy mv, a totally normal mv they would add this random niche reference...doenst look similar enough for me either
and cookie mv again burn a cd is a slang in kr, and they show that in the mv
u can build ur own conclusions or whatever from it. but here are the facts

[clear hill]

LOL ok

[short laurel]

We have same in india. Reservation system killed it but we got tons if actually skilled intelligent ppl but most go to west. Stupid caste system harmed india.

[flint stone]

it is important to discuss doubts, but bringing up something that was debunked decade ago..

[short laurel]

India did it for kids below 15 years of age

[subtle matrix]

Was there drama about hype boy? It's a completely normal mv

[hoary frost]

rei brought it up. never heard aobut this ngl

[clear hill]

MHJ is kinda known for references/her very niche artistic approach to MV/overall aesthetics. I’m just speculating.

[flint stone]

same

[subtle matrix]

Like even for kpop groups with minors standards it's completely normal

[upbeat stream]

Oh I have. There are very few newjeans songs/mvs with no drama lol

[clear hill]

I was just asking if there was an official statement from mhj herself/interviews talking about her inspirations for their debut/concepts. That’s why we’re even talking about it in the first place

[opaque flicker]

this shit has been going for way too long it pmo, like u just gonna belive a bunch of stupid takes, taken out of context by some people that are not even in the fandom, every now and then someone has to bring up this sexualizing shit like pls show me where mhj has said she's been inspired by all those things yall claim and it's not just some shit made up by a hater

[upbeat stream]

Even for Asap, they invented some bullshit, I forgot what it was

[hoary frost]

whaat...?

[short laurel]

Tbh if u wanna compare n blame all of kpop industry. Not just mhj.
There are tons if weird reference by almost every big names with minors idols in them. Mhj is just one. Yet ppl only ever criticise mhj but largely ignore everyone else. Even hybes other groups mv n songs has these

[upbeat stream]

Among all their rookie songs, only ditto has no controversy that I know of

[hoary frost]

thing is that alot of ppl were even having issue with cwy (cool with you) mv and twisting meanings. so i think alot of bunnies are defensive over this
i think its not wrong to discuss
but i think we have discussed all there is to discuss for now

[opaque flicker]

also this fr

[clear hill]

Cwy?

[short laurel]

Cool with you

[clear hill]

That’s fair I’ve just never discussed it w bunnies😭 bc everytime the topic got brought up ppl just assumed u were a hater/anti

[subtle matrix]

tbf I''ve seen a lot of comments about oversexualizing eunchae when she was a minor too, and yoonchae too recently. MHJ is more discussed because tbf she has been a big name in the industry for a long time so there's more of a record

[clear hill]

Ohhhh

[alpine sapphire]

if we are in this bullshit created by haters than i wanna know from what angle eta ipromotes terrorrism.i saw some rats talking on it but i cant figure out how .........i

[hoary frost]

it has to with that eva micheal thing

[hoary frost]

nah ppl are going overboard. like sometimes finding weird references in alot of things related to mhj out of nowhere.

[clear hill]

That’s completely and I agree but the reason WHY I brought up mhj is because she’s the creative director for newjeans. I was simply speculating her initial ideas for these early concepts.

[upbeat stream]

Let's not forget newjeans popularized extra-long safeties and generally comfortable stage outfits. Their internal planning document also specifically aims to avoid sexualization. Why say that in your internal planning which is never supposed to see the light of day if you intend to do the exact opposite?

[flint stone]

i'm not sure but maybe because it's an old topic that was clarified long time ago and usually antis bring up it again and again

[hoary frost]

Also yeah
when i see their outfits they look like normal teen girl outfits

[short laurel]

Pretty sure there are many male producers too who go this far.
Infact pretty sure lsm made concepts have these too but no one talk about it. Ppl only hate him for trees n money loundry n selling sm to hybe

[upbeat stream]

Well BSH is just as big and has a more troubling history, yet I've not seen nearly as much scrutiny for him

[hoary frost]

also i saw many ppl getting mad at ppl for saying stuff against yoonchae in that mv

[upbeat stream]

He literally wrote a very sexual song for one of the boy groups that he used to produce for. I forgot who exactly, perhaps 2 am?

[short laurel]

Imo if there really was weird meaning by mhj behind it. I'll say that it's normalized in korea. Not saying it's right n we have right to criticise it but i wish ppl point fingers at others too instead of just 1 lady. I've seen public being much much harsher to women in korean than men in korea. Not only by koreans but intl public too. N mostly by women in intl public

[clear hill]

That’s true. But I feel like you can’t just label everything as “hate” “support” and categorize everything into black and white thinking. Logic like that supports even anti njz/mhj conversations like “mhj said this about an idol that must mean she hates them” “mhj called out illit she hates those girls”

[hoary frost]

tbh i think this dragged on abit. i think nobody has new perspectives to offer
i think now u can form ur own based on what we all have to say

[clear hill]

Yea it’s really just misogyny st the end of the day and why mhj is criticized for things that is the norm in the industry. I saw ppl saying how she has an obsession w minors bc she debuted hyein but there was literally a Korean survival show I saw called under 15 😭

[hoary frost]

tbh hyein is nowhere near the firts to debut at this age. most of the kpop groups debuted wiht someone 14-16

or even 13

[subtle matrix]

I mean just last year BSH was photographed with 2 streamers and the internet went wild and immediately made up a whole bunch of stories. MHJ isn't the only person in the industry being scrutinized

[short laurel]

There was one with 13 year old iirc

[clear hill]

Yeah i don’t mean to drag it further my bad. I just don’t like when ppl automatically resort to extremes. it makes having convos like this hard bc ppl refuse to call out things.

[short laurel]

Lol i accidentally replied to yr same comment

[hoary frost]

boa debuted at 13 i remember

[upbeat stream]

Before April 2024, let's just say. MHJ herself was largely ignored but everything blew up in 2022. But BSH has been a famous prodcuer and CEO for a while yet nothing. Nowhere near the same extent too

[short laurel]

Only recently n short lived. Mhj hate is long lived. N still living. Meanwhile barely anyone talks about bsh now

[flint stone]

I think there was a 9 years old

[hoary frost]

one thing about cpop is that i noticed
like i was watching girlsplanet ofr example or even chinese survival show, one thing i noticed
all their trainees are decent adult ages, not even just like just turned 18 but like all in thier 20s
i think the9 group youngest was 1997

[hoary frost]

bsh hate is just something bunnies did to get back at the years of defamation bcuz ppl only [pointed out mhj for some reason. even tho i think for the kpop ceos she has the least concrete actoins like this

bcuz ppl of other groups saying njz are evil for supporting mhj

[clear hill]

Yeah it’s so sad. Antis were literally saying MHJ/NJZ ruined kpop But is this even an isolated incident? This is extremely common, it’s not like something that happens once in s blue moon.Idols and companies having legal issues have always existed in the kpop world

[hoary frost]

otherwise nobody owuld care

[upbeat stream]

MHJ was merely proxy, newjeans has always been the real target. If it was organic criticism of her, why was there basically nothing before 2022? She has been a well-known and respected creative for over a decade. Newjeans has always been very vocal about their support of her, so she was an easy way to target them

[short laurel]

Army destroyed koop for me. All cuz they scream bunch of bs to everyone at extraordinary levels

[hoary frost]

i mean yg story with his wife. i was so disturbed. he sabotaged the group to marry her even. but nobody brings this up

nobody saying yg artists are evil to support him or work under him

[clear hill]

Omg I literally got doxxed once for saying I didn’t know a single bts song and that they’re not the biggest boy group in the world 😭🤦‍♀️

[short laurel]

Yg is disgusting

[hoary frost]

what the heck..? what platform was this

[subtle matrix]

And you can point out that MHJ is more scrutinized than other players in the industry (I think she is right now) but that alone isn't gonna change anyone's mind. Pointing out that someone else is worse doesn't make her good in the eyes of someone who thinks she's a borderline pedo (to be clear I don't)

[short laurel]

They doxxed sooo many ppl. It's scary n hybe use them for their parapaganda so hard

[hoary frost]

but fact is that this mhj thing is unique. they are like really fixtated on her for some reason
i mean its just a fact...not about changing somebodies mind or anything

[upbeat stream]

Not just right now but ever since 2022. We all know why

[short laurel]

No. Mhj was target of intl stans especially sm haters even be4 2022. Even sm groups stans blamed her for so many shits which korean stans largely ignored finding it nonsense.

[hoary frost]

yeah im sm group fan. i likealmost all their groups and i cna confirm this

[short laurel]

Mhj had been scapegoat for sm's bs imo.

[upbeat stream]

Eh, it was far far less before newjeans' debut. I have been a kpop fan active on twitter for half a decade and I had never even heard of her before 2022

[hoary frost]

i think it was just a thing amongst sm group fan. idk if u wree one or not. but it was deff brought up just not fully in public like it is now

ppl also said same things about nct dream debut on mhj iirc

[clear hill]

I wanna agree but I feel like it’s the opposite. There’s no substantial reason why the general public would hate on 5 girls who debuted who as far as were concerned, were simply trainees completely out of the public eye before all of this happened. MHJ is also extremely influential in the kpop industry w her seasoned history as a creative director but st the end of the day she is just one person. She is useful enough to be sought out by powerful entities like SM and Hybe but not powerful enough to take over large companies with investors and lots of employees being poured into them

[hoary frost]

thing is weird thing ppl always said with mhj i noticed since the start which is why altho iwas abit sus of her at the start. i was not fully onboard with this stuff
"Women can be as bad" like this is what they kept on parotting. despite they never cared about the men producer doing these things and going overboard on her

[upbeat stream]

True because I was a blink and uaena only at the time and took little interest in others. But when newjeans debuted, you couldn't avoid seeing stuff about her, whether you stanned newjeans or not, you would see it on twitter

[clear hill]

Like obviously women can be bad but ppl don’t realize the only reason why they feel so strongly ab mhj and not the male dominated industry who gets away w this stuff is bc she’s a woman and it’s easier to see her as a “b1tch” or “entitled”. When men are entitled they are asserting dominance but when women are entitled they are ungrateful and should be blacklisted because how dare they.

[hoary frost]

which is why they are reacting this wya to njz as well

[short laurel]

Just different circles n not much in reach of army n blinks

[upbeat stream]

By this logic, what was the reason blackpink got so much hate since 2018?

[hoary frost]

well i think simple reaosn is bcuz they wre popular women

[clear hill]

I actually don’t know bc I’m not a blink and wasn’t into kpop during then

[upbeat stream]

Yeah, that's my point

[hoary frost]

and then other stuff piled on like that dancing scandal, that they actually hate eachother etc. and laso blink vs army fanwar. and army are ruthless

oh and those dating things...idr when those were

[short laurel]

Army just hate everyone. I c then hating on sm for every little things soo much.

I boiling point was when 1 lil 7 hated one seulgi 3 years ago. That was when so many groups fandoms combined n bullied that lil 7 out of twter. That unity I'll nvr forget 😂

[clear hill]

Exactly. It’s just a lot of things fueling their hatred for newjeans—the fact that they got popular in such a short amount of time and made such a huge impact on kpop triggered alot of ppl’s kpop stan instincts to hate on successful ggs that threaten the popularity of their favourite gg. Also bc they’re so young. Ppl keep infantilizing young artists and taking away their agency as human beings to make individual decisions for them bc “they’re so young adults must be manipulating them” even though they’re simply workers who have faced mistreatment

[hoary frost]

why did they hate on seulgi...?

the sad part of these fanwars is that most of these idols are friends in real life

[hoary frost]

Thing is why do they keep on switching...?
like first it's
they are babies who dont know anything
now its they are evil manipulators with huge plan

why dont they accept their decision didnt allign with their headcanon. thats the root cause of this

[short laurel]

Nothing. Dude just saw some clip from some mv or ad honestly idr what it was but they said something like "i always find her bad person" something along this.

[clear hill]

Like it’s not even the fact that NJZ are young ppl who might be taken advantage of in the industry ppl genuinely don’t care and just want newjeans to be compliant and subservient .

[upbeat stream]

And armys who were so supportive during debut era turned on them when Ditto took Dynamite's PAK record. That's why I laugh when people say armys only started attacking newjeans last year. I distinctly remember the amount of hate newjeans got merely for breaking BTS record

[hoary frost]

That is not how you react to someone who is taken advantage of others

[hoary frost]

Ngl armies might turn on the other groups at some point too...whos fandoms are using them to hate on njz

[clear hill]

Anything to fit their narrative, like hyein said the media weaponize her age to fit their narratives when they want

[hoary frost]

Ofc and they even got triggered at that

they think they know all the situation from their bed

[short laurel]

Seen them turn on each other cuz 1 members solo did better than other member 😂

[upbeat stream]

What's cool is that njz hold most of the records they set during rookie era. Let's see how many they hold when they will eventually return

[clear hill]

Wait so who even started the “newjeans being bts’ little sisters” thing? Bc this whole thing makes no sense why armies would give newjeans that title and then say they only got popular because of that title

[hoary frost]

and funny thing i saw new narrative. danielle is an adult so she is evil but haerin and hyein are the innocent minors. despite their gap is just 1 year for haerin

[clear hill]

Omggg the tik tok lawyers were so annoying

[hoary frost]

idk and it doesnt matter. from seeing their tantrums over not getting new njz music
we can see why they were popular

they themselves have admitted it over and over

[upbeat stream]

That was done by korean media, but they do it with every new hybe group, so nothing unique

[clear hill]

No and the fact that hanni got ALOT of hate from knetz calling her a bully bc she’s super outspoken even tho Minji is also outspoken about this. But bc she’s a foreigner and Minji isn’t they think all “Korean people are just docile in nature and hanni is an evil foreigner who doesn’t listen to rules and wants to destroy kpop 😈”

[hoary frost]

Did knets actually do this tho. i dont think average knets is on this agenda..i saw them being like hardcore mhj glazers that people in this server wouldnt even dream of reaching

this is mainly from international fans who are using these weird xenophobic agendas against hanni

[clear hill]

I think the knetz who are Antis. I’ve seen just blatant xenophobia towards hanni from them bc of this. From the visa issue to the National Assembly hearing, I saw ppl really painting her to be some evil person

[short laurel]

Fake ador n Media triggered hate again hanni n k incels ride on that to hate her

[hoary frost]

yeah but average korean person i dont think so. just those kinds would hate. i dont think its same reputation as in international social media where i cant even go there because of how much they slander hanni.

[clear hill]

But I agree. In the last part I wasn’t talking about knetz. It’s def intl fans and koreaboos who keep pushing that agenda and infantilizing kpop idols

[short laurel]

We just heard loud incels. Idt avg korean hates her on this. Infact I've seen more petition by koreans to help improve idol industry which is inline with hanni.

[hoary frost]

i think njz reputation in kr is just fine tbh

[upbeat stream]

Their music is still very popular. So I'm not too worried about public opinion, as long as they can return with great music, they'll be fine

[hoary frost]

kr fan would not be as likely to be like a crazed kpop stan...also i think alot of them have anti hybe views

[upbeat stream]

They are #7 on korean youtube artists, despite a year-long hiatus now

[hoary frost]

mhj press conference was very popular in kr...not sure about now but the response was 100% different to the international repsonse

[clear hill]

that makes me rlly happy to hear tbh;,) I’m really glad hanni is paving the way for change to made in the industry

[hoary frost]

most of people who ask for change will get pushbakck. change isnt that easy

[clear hill]

Yea I saw, she has a majority female support base and I love that

[clear hill]

Yeah. Everything can’t be handed so easily but I’m just glad that a south East Asian idol is making such an impact. Ofc Lisa did too but for change to be made in the industry makes me so happy esp as another sea.

[short laurel]

Do u know hanni attending NA n issue she talked about is part of larger on going case at NA. Ex idols were at NA weeks be4 hanni.

It's something to read about n support them

[clear hill]

I’m not sure but I’m gonna look into that, I do know that hanni passed a bill or something like that regarding workplace discrimination

[short laurel]

Hanni gave the issue larger voice

[upbeat stream]

Also have you guys ever seen the demographics of any naver comment section that is anti-njz? It's always 80%+ men, generally over 40

[short laurel]

Yea

[upbeat stream]

By contrast, if a comment section is pro-njz, the demo is reversed, young women mostly

[clear hill]

Literally all I can hear is the sponge bob foghorn when I think of that. Stinkyyy 🤢

[clear hill]

So ironic how antis and the belift ceo said that newjeans we made for the male gaze and made for male audiences 🥴

[upbeat stream]

Like the difference is often this dramatic 💀 . I got this from a k-tokki tweet a while ago

[short laurel]

Kpop is majorly consumer female for both bg n gg. Higher males in gg though compared to bg. But it's majority female from what I've seen in gg

[hoary frost]

have u seen the ratio of album sales? even for gg its mostly female lol

[short laurel]

Yea.

[hoary frost]

idk why ppl like to say that gg are all made to cater to certain audience. its quite weird. female audience is more likely to partake in purchasing these goods... for example aespa i was really surprised...it was like 80% female buying the album

[storm warren]

the delusion is off the charts

[short laurel]

As Male i m can confidently say i c more female than male even among intl kpop consumers

[hoary frost]

yeah i know alot of girls including myself who only like ggs or mostly like ggs

actually one thing im surprised is that blackpink ratio was more equal than i thought. i thought their audience was like all female ngl

[short laurel]

Especially when male gets hated by females for being male in kpop. 😭 Kpopies are harsh

[clear hill]

I had to 💀

[upbeat stream]

But I don't understand why old men are always hating njz on naver. What interest do they even have in all this? They are not the normal kpop demographic, most of their peers listen to trot and ballads, not girl groups

[hoary frost]

i think it could be because of the impeachment rally support

[short laurel]

That n incels n they hate seeing strong women

[hoary frost]

there was one bts fan hating on hanni. turns out shes like 56 years old

Probably for older generation they are really against this disobedience against the hierachy or something...not sure

[clear hill]

Omg I saw that

[short laurel]

Last year an old lady went to sk to tour n saw mhj took her pic post it hating on mhj on twter n replies on it revealed that lady has a son almost 30 years old.

We posted it here. Last year

[storm warren]

im too lazy to engage in this discussion but i feel sorry to see illiterate kpop stans using Nabokov's book to push their deluded agendas. it frustrates me as its clear they havent read the book and understand what it is about and u can find buns and lolipops in million visual media even among kpop groups. thats not the point. the point is youd never make this comparison if not obvious brain rot happening across social media (thanks to hyper sexualization of everything) and having already existing bias and perception about the subject which is njz

njz was subject of hyper sexualization from kpop stans based on one presumption that "mhj is problematic". kpop stans tried to link the clothes they wore, how they behaved, what they said, their mvs, and everything to something that would confirm their already formed bias and narrative

many of the things u think is reference or similar would never cross your mind if not already biased perspective

mhj is not their stylist and nor their mv director, she is executive producer yes but ur claiming that she put buns on her on purpose is deluded and reach

ppl seriously circle jerk same topics here about mhj and njz. yawn

[opaque flicker]

absolutely right

[clear hill]

I understand where you’re coming from but this is a completely different discussion altogether. Nabokov Lolita and movie adaptation(s) Lolita are already 2 different things with some people saying lolita shouldn’t be made into a movie because a movie simply can’t convey the original context of nabokov’s lolita. And obviously when I mentioned lolita I was regarding the movie. I don’t actually think that newjeans have sexually implicit concepts, I only made an observation of an implication. Also if you even read what I said I never took buns and lollipops as concrete evidence of sexualization from mhjs part I was merely speculating her initial inspirations for hype boy and cookie that let to the final result being the way it is.

[storm warren]

great speculation ig

just proved that it comes from existing narratives and bias

bc of cookie ig lol bc there is nothing remotely problematic about hype boy

which is like average netflix high teen drama episodes

danielle putting lolipop in haerin's mouth as a gesture of reconciliation is def lolita inspired

[clear hill]

I don’t know why people have this presumption that if you bring up a criticism you’re engaging is criticism against njz. Also I’ve literally stated several times that this implication of critique=anti/s3xual observation=p3do is just harmful. Like do you realize how harmful that is to insinuate that observing patterns IN AN INDUSTRY THAT NORMALIZES THIS simply prevents progression??

I understand why bunnies as a whole get tired of this being brought up over again but I was simply asking for sources WHERE MHJ could’ve possibly talked about it indirectly or her inspirations behind those songs to further create a more accurate and less biased conclusion.

[storm warren]

there is no pattern here, just delusions but i digress

ask mhj ig "did u copy lolita's hairstyle and lolipop"

[clear hill]

I nvr once said hype boy was s3xual lmfao now you’re just making assumptions. You can’t come to a conclusion and turn to extremes. Having discussions is so hard bc ppl like u genuinely categorize everything into black and white. Like criticism and observation within a fan base shouldn’t equal hate. It just creates an echo chamber where there’s opposing views are disregarded simply for bringing it up.

[subtle matrix]

This mhj argument is reaching never before seen levels of dumbassery ngl

[storm warren]

as long as youre rational and not part of echo chamber that repeats same tired narratives

[clear hill]

I also literally never said that. I never said that mhj took buns and lollipop as inspiration from Lolita. My god

[clear hill]

I’m not...I literally support mhj in this conflict...

[storm warren]

you tried to establish a pattern by using njz mvs as example. i said there is no such thing. not everything has some controversial reference and hidden intent behind it

[clear hill]

Yes and we all agreed that it may just be a coincidence😭 idky you had to further bring it up when the conversation was already over

[short laurel]

I feel like adding this.
Everyone had problems when mhj made an adult man lift his shirt for photocard at sm. But no one had problems when bsh made a minor man lift his shirt.

[old cypress]

many own hybe stock

[stuck roost]

nah😭

did this actually happen brooo

[craggy skiff]

what kind of brain rot fanfic is this? 💀
I see sniper post about it so I dont mind bcs his post is bulls***

[steel depot]

how low can they get

[empty halo]

why are antis so amped up over haerins bday? I didn't notice any of this during the other member bdays but people seem to be mad over haerins birthday specifically

is it because she's more popular in korea?

[dusk niche]

The way that her bday message has been getting so much hate from antis feels borderline obsessive to me.

[cinder narwhal]

assuming that's true bunnies should just stfu when newjeans isn't concerned

[red thorn]

Troll behaviour, feeding antis

[clear hill]

Sounds like some made up shit an anti came up with. And the crazy part is they victimize so hard when it comes to their fav group being mistreated and bullied by hanni and mhj but literally celebrate when mhdhh are being hated on 💀

[short laurel]

Oo ado covered featured in lsfm song jp ver of unforgiven n fearnots hating it. That's how yesterday's hate started.
It is good too but kpopies just shocked by her voice lol. But really they are something to dare to start a fanwar with ado out of all the japanese artists. her intl fandom is not small enough to be bullied by kpopies. 😂

Hmm not covered but featured in jp ver of unforgiven actually

[cinder narwhal]

that would be an honor what

[hollow sorrel]

She didn’t cover it they have a song together

which came out like 2 years ago so idk why is it a problem now

[short laurel]

Yea i said after that she was featured in jo ver of unforgiven

[mild mist]

So K-pop fans harassing a young woman for no reason.
Again.

[upbeat stream]

Why would you assume it's true? Idk about this particular incident but you know well that these accounts lie

[subtle matrix]

did this actually happen

There's like a 99% chance it didn't

[short laurel]

There have been incidents where some fandom pose as another fandom n do things like this.
Remember months ago a dude went to lsfm event n posed as bunnies but we later learned that he was lsfm fan.

[cinder narwhal]

I'm just taking it at face value and you know those kinds of toxic bunnies exist anyway

[subtle matrix]

Why is it toxic? Tone deaf maybe

This most likely didn't happen though (or at least not as described there) so w/e

[hollow sorrel]

https://x.com/lifestyle010101/status/1923318430725222795?s=46&t=rG1o-Bkd-GgDMGG_CtSg2Q

d.t니즈 (@lifestyle010101) on X

보통 전관은 한 소송건에 한번 쓰는게 보통이고 각 심급마다 추가선임해서 대응하기도 하는데 가처분에 전관쓰고 항고에 추가 전관쓰는건 솔직히 처음봄 방금 전화해서 물어보니 항고까지 쓰는거보니 무슨 소스가 들어왔나보네라며 급한상황인거 같다는데 새...

X · May 16, 2025, 10:03 AM

I wonder what happened

[upbeat stream]

Yeah well, you shouldn't take anything from sniper or aespannjeans at face value.

[cinder narwhal]

idk who's it from there's nothing in the screenshot

and stop pinging me

[upbeat stream]

K&C using high-profile judges is expected. What's interesting is that they bolstered their lineup recently, after both sides had listed theirs. Probably an abundance of caution

[old cypress]

Feels like they're not super confident if they suddenly added 2 more people to work on the appeal. (going from 5 to 7)

[storm warren]

7 not 8 but yeah

[eternal ibex]

this has probably been said by a handful of people but i genuinely dislike how people refuse to just do research and stop believing everything they see on like the internet, tiktok especially, its like misinfo central this is mainly me ranting because i know people that literally said the girls shoudlve stayed with hybe blah blah blah yk all that and i just think doing proper research is free, and seeing comments be like all toxic and whatnot is just so disappointing because these people are the same to switch up the second be like “omg theyre back” ykwim? just a rant but i feel like i should mention it still

[rugged dagger]

[short laurel]

sniper said he waited for cat outside her birthday cafe. and complained when she didn't come.

creepy. how these haters act like they are fans

[stoic heron]

this person is crazy

[storm warren]

https://x.com/aarrttee01/status/1923321195963056145

.🩵 (@aarrttee01) on X

🚨🚨NJZ(뉴진스)와의 항고에서 하이브(어도어)측 변호사 13명 중 전관이 7명‼️
🚨김앤장 전관 6명 + 홍승면 법률사무소 1명.
📍김앤장 전관 중 눈에 띄는 ‘강일원’은 박근혜 탄핵한 바로 그 헌법재판소 재판관. 퇴임 후 김앤장 변호사를 하며 겸직으로 ‘법무...

X · May 16, 2025, 10:14 AM

13 lawyers on appeal case. 7 former judges 😂

[waxen musk]

Oh for the appeal?! For some reason I thought this was about the main case starting 5 June.

Scary stuff. But if NJZ win the appeal, it's gonna feel insanely good.

[storm warren]

i dont even hope after seeing one of the judges rich crooked history

but to mobilize whole soccer team and more for appeal is insane lmfao

[waxen musk]

-prayjeans

[tall dew]

[stoic heron]

they are afraid lol

[short laurel]

13 laywers to bully 5 girls dam.

if only hybe spend this much money on actually protecting their idols

[brazen ice]

i remember seeing a tweet saying smthn big happened behind the scenes which made them lawyer up more probably. the objection trial wasnt public so ye smthn there maybe

[copper jetty]

Is this for the main trial or the appeal? Why does hybe have so many attorneys?

Also what changed that theybhad to lawyer up that much? Weird.

[hoary frost]

Lol what

sounds made up

[wary creek]

they're a multibillion dollar corporation. they can afford the lawyers

[old cypress]

on the plus side, K&C is currently in hot waters so they're less likely to pull shady shit

[old cypress]

is that the human rights lawyer association thingy? I forgot their name

ok it's the GongGam Public Interest Lawyers Group for Human Rights. The info is probably legit then

[storm warren]

you're underestimating the weight of having so many former judges as lawyers regardless of hot waters k&c is in

[old cypress]

Sejong also has former judges, it's pretty common in korea

[old cypress]

K&C being a hot topic will definitely impact the trial

[clear hill]

The fact that they need 8 lawyers on one simple (simple as in it’s evident that Hybe is in the wrong)case of artists being clearly exploited by their labels says a lot 💀

You’d think that it’s about a high profile case of serious misconducts but no it’s just a group of 5 young girls who refuse to put up w the mistreatment of their label

[storm warren]

do they have any on njz case?

its common bc former judge privilege exists

[old cypress]

Do we even know who's on njz's case? There's that Lee Hyungon guy who is helping team bnz/sejong but he's not part of sejong of course. But i know that the woman lawyer who was with mhj during her presscon is a former judge

[old cypress]

It's more than that, the system used by the kpop industry is at risk if njz win and establishes a precedent

[wary creek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV45QUsCeLA

[copper jetty]

I already blocked this kpop yt account. It's just click bait and there isn't even an ounce of evidence presented even on the older yt videos. It's one of those AI narrated kpop videos

[old cypress]

https://x.com/aarrttee01/status/1920989830760329320

.🩵 (@aarrttee01) on X

🚨🚨강추. 아래링크 49분부터 1:15분까지 25분간 꼭  보시길! The core of judicial reform is Kim & Chang!
🚨Summary of the broadcast content:
“Kim & Chang is currently completely unknown to the outside world. It is known externally as a law firm, but it is not a law firm but a legal

X · May 9, 2025, 11:50 PM

shows how little we know about K&C (if the info is true)

[hoary frost]

this vid has like 2 million views rn. so a very hot topic in korea

Funny thing is the kpop fans who were onto njz every move and step are now quiet about this

[fierce cloak]

anyone has schedule about the courts stuff? Is there anything happening soon?

[hoary frost]

So looks like ppl only interested in talking about njz impact in a negative way. interesting

if somebody wrote something positive about njz impact they would start their rants about how bunnies call everything a copy ...hm

[copper jetty]

Guys, did the appeal already happen? How come there's tweets rn on x saying that there's 13 lawyers for Hybe's appeal? How'd people know? Was it announced or did an initial filing of evidences happen already?

[heady gate]

no appeal date yet. HYPE hired 2 more formal judges to the team

[copper jetty]

Hybe did? How'd people know tho?

Also 13 lawyers is kind of an overkill. But they have the money anyway to do that since they're a huge company. I'm thinking though why'd they add those 2 lawyers? What's the purpose?

[old cypress]

info came from the GongGam Public Interest Lawyers Group for Human Rights it seems

[hoary frost]

But why did they all of a sudden get more? that is the question. it would be different if they always had 13

[copper jetty]

Wait what?? What's a human rights group have to do with this? I'm so out of the loop rn is there a tldr?

[copper jetty]

That's actually what I'm asking. Was there a change or was there a new evidence regarding the appeal that they had to bring in more lawyers for?

[hoary frost]

seems like we dont know for now

[copper jetty]

There must be something that happened in between the objection and the appeal filing for them to add 2 more lawyers especially if it's for consultation.

Also, idk when they filed for the appeal, is it just me or is the announcement for the appeal date taking very long?

[copper current]

~t https://x.com/haerin1st/status/1923413376635453556

[narrow seal]

250516 ✿ (@​haerin1st) Twitter Update
https://twitter.com/haerin1st/status/1923413376635453556
video exposing kim & chang’s (hybe lawyers against NJZ) fraud is going viral in korea

[copper current]

~t https://x.com/njz_pham/status/1923417226180284739

[narrow seal]

250516 ditto akgae (@​njz_pham) Twitter Update
https://twitter.com/njz_pham/status/1923417226180284739
HYBE strongarmed the girls as “anti-Korean” but 6 weeks later the government is calling their lawfirm an Anti Korean to the country 😭💀💀 every accusation is indeed a confession 😹

[copper current]

~t https://x.com/bammi057/status/1923399457841860684

[narrow seal]

250516 yb🐰 (@​bammi057) Twitter Update
https://twitter.com/bammi057/status/1923399457841860684
@pannchoa Even when you try u still fail

[stuck roost]

So if newjeans win this case will they still have access to their old songs

[red thorn]

Another matter, still would be disputed I believe

[bronze talon]

im not quite sure
the songs didnt get produced and (i think licensed) under hybe A&R so it belongs to the 250 and frnk people iirc
either they get IP back and get to keep songs or just get permission to rerecord their old songs once theyre out of ador as NJZ
but i think only IF ador doesnt want to compensate aka give them the rights to, not exactly sure how it can get handled

[old cypress]

same group as https://x.com/juantokki/status/1915599591564779986

1tokki (@juantokki) on X

“The NewJeans Dispute Reveals Unfair Contract Structures in the Idol Industry” – A Human Rights Lawyer’s Critique
https://t.co/kEHEUbdcuR
Reporter Kim Na-yeon

[Interview] Attorney Jang Seo-yeon of the GongGam Public Interest Lawyers Group for Human Rights

“Long-term 7-year

X · Apr 25, 2025, 2:51 AM

[empty halo]

ador is currently compensating the members right?

I think I heard somewhere they're still being paid their salaries but I'm not sure

[wary creek]

they probably are

they don't want to give the judge any reason to rule breach of contract

[empty halo]

thats good then

[wary creek]

just my guess though. I wouldn't know

[empty halo]

during court proceedings ador confirmed that njz is still being compensated

i still wouldnt wanna stream hybe in general ngl, its too shady of a company

[short laurel]

All that they complained about happening be4 newjeans was a thing besides newjeans has many 3min+ songs. Seriously what a dumb post

[short laurel]

It is about human rights for njz. That human right lawyer organisation spoke in support of njz last month.

[short laurel]

Pretty sure we only have details about compensation from og ador time that current ador took credit for.
We don't know about compensation from when current ador took over.

[empty halo]

ohh. But since they're claiming that mhdhh are STILL under them and its business as usual they're probably still paying them? Hopefully idk it's best to not legally stream them atm imo

[hollow sorrel]

the way all of NJZ's recent songs (except Right Now) is above 3 minutes while Lsf is only making songs up to 3 minutes since 2024 so who really wants tiktok validation

[storm warren]

how is it njz fault if kpop industry is creatively and musically bankrupt

[storm warren]

KOMCA is paying royalties for songs

not ador, the distribution of royalties among songwriters and other right holders is KOMCA's job and njz songs are under KOMCA management

[empty halo]

ohhh cool

[empty halo]

thats funny coming from a fearnot bc soumu trend chases every comeback lsrfm has which has caused direct harm to the groups image with multiple people pointing out the fact that they don't have a distinct sound

easy listening catchy music ≠ hunger for tiktok success

[bronze talon]

I think it's more like
Oh it became famous? Well gotta be the hunger for fame

[mild mist]

You have to respect them for inventing tick tock though
Not everyone can do that

[subtle matrix]

They are still getting paid by ador as well

[storm warren]

well, naturally. i meant earnings solely from song streaming and downloads are managed by komca.

[subtle matrix]

Ador not paying them would be pretty much conceding that they are not part of the company anymore

[storm warren]

ador will have to pay them for all activities the girls were part of regardless they are part of company or not

not paying them would create different and unfavorable issue which does not benefit them as they have a role to play that they fulfilled settlements and all that are usually key issues of conflicts between artists and managements

however, they have given shares to all new board members and increased their salaries in form of bonuses which reduces njz cut and settlement/payment ratio

[short laurel]

Man. I need a place to bich about lil 7. 😭

[empty halo]

lil 7?

[subtle matrix]

What salty people call armys

[empty halo]

ohh them

[old cypress]

increasing their salaries doesn't reduce njz's cut

[hoary frost]

Do we have an estimate of when the results of the appeal will be released?

[short laurel]

1st let the appeal happen