esports-discussion

[raw ermine]

Wouldn't be 100% bad

[tropic herald]

Super Titty Fucker on the desk

https://twitter.com/christferow/status/1544395856987664385?s=21&t=g8LGkXbEzOvyTojfmq9xug

ChrisTFer (@ChrisTFerOW)

MFW my 10 billion dollar superteam loses to Spitfire ABUSING the most BROKEN, UNCOUNTERABLE, UNFUN, LITTERALLY UNBEATABLE comp in the game.

Likes

165

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 7:00 PM

[willow drum]

https://twitter.com/owesports_kr/status/1544276068810604545

오버워치 e스포츠 (@owesports_kr)

"정커퀸 공식대회 첫 출전?!🥵"
컨텐더스가 오버워치 2로 새롭게 돌아옵니다!

7/18(월) 오후 5시!
오버워치 컨텐더스 코리아 2022 썸머시리즈 A
놓치지 마세요~

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 11:04 AM

LETS GO

IT IS COMING IN 13 DAYS

HEESANG PLAYS IN 13 DAYS

[willow tartan]

elts go we get to see new talent ?

cause it is open signup

so maybe we get some ranked nerds popping off

[worn falcon]

Speedily when

[trim shadow]

This dude serious after getting dunked and reverse swept by the team not paying its players

[next mesa]

i would sign up but

i dont want to shit on heesang and make his stocks drop

[trim shadow]

So she is out for the rest of the season right

[next mesa]

he is a good friend of mine

[willow tartan]

she got dropped?

L

[frosty patrol]

?????

rusha have knowledge challenge

what team do you think christfer is currently coaching

[trim shadow]

Oh right london my bad

[willow tartan]

not be stuck in season 3 challenge

[trim shadow]

Sorry i am actively hunting any fusion fans

[frosty patrol]

also

valiant are not paying haker and he's not expected to be a player

and the marve1 thing is false

haker is a content creator

[willow tartan]

content creator and landlord

[frosty patrol]

the landlord is ezhan

[willow drum]

ezhan pays 4 whole facility

[frosty patrol]

yes

[willow drum]

i think

[frosty patrol]

ezhan just really wants on the team

[willow drum]

his parents are

billionaires

[willow tartan]

i thought they were living in his basement or something

[willow drum]

not 2 my knowledge

and his basement prob better

than the houses we live in

[willow tartan]

its funnier to pretend that its true

[willow drum]

(his parents are billionaires)

[frosty patrol]

ezhan's basement is in korea

sadly

[vagrant jacinth]

I love this man

[balmy wolf]

Probably not maternity leave is on average 6-8 weeks

So she should be coming back mid countdown cup or earlier

Or early countdown cup actually

[frosty patrol]

(US maternity leave)

[balmy wolf]

She is in the US?

[frosty patrol]

yes

but I am posting that as a clarifier

[balmy wolf]

Oh oki

With how long tournaments are and the break in-between stages

She should be back for week 1 if countdown cup

[cunning patrol]

It is not

Imo

Especially with mn0 underperforming

[frosty patrol]

it's below spark dragons dynasty shock glads reign (accounting for half the remaining season being speedily) imo

likely forgetting a team or two

[cunning patrol]

Agree

[willow tartan]

not atlanta

[twin bloom]

Cope

[frosty patrol]

kai and 50% speedily 50% nero

• venom

is > mn3 carpe zest

[twin bloom]

Real

Zest is Apac valentine

A very sleepy flex dps

[frosty patrol]

disagree

[twin bloom]

Can not compare to greats

[frosty patrol]

zest > nero but

[twin bloom]

Like

[frosty patrol]

kai > mn3 carpe

[twin bloom]

Pelican

[frosty patrol]

nero < zest < pelican

imo

[twin bloom]

Why does owl have so many bad flex dps

Lol

Finale assasin valantine wub(sadly)

[frosty patrol]

finale assassin valentine wub backbone (off mei hanzo) innovation (off his 3 tricks) architect?

[twin bloom]

Mirror as well

If you count him

[frosty patrol]

mirror off his 3 mid or good dps yes

[twin bloom]

His 3 good dps

Are junkrat

Torb

Pharah

Irrelevant champs

Imo

[frosty patrol]

pharah echo sombra he's mid or good at

torb too

junk too

his sombra is only mid because so many people can't play sombra

imo

[willow tartan]

mn3 is a markedly better hitscan than kai

[frosty patrol]

disagree

[twin bloom]

👎

[willow tartan]

why do you choose to be wrong?

[hot onyx]

Try and perform well with Belosfeeder FiXa Aimgod and the washed up corpse of Fury taking up valuable roster slots

[hot onyx]

Nero Speedily and Venom aren’t better than ZEST

[willow drum]

https://twitter.com/shuseph/status/1544406420837130240

shu (@shuseph)

losing with Decay and Happy on your team and then positioning as if there are insurmountable barriers that have stopped you from preparing for this meta scenario within the context of losing to Spitfire is objectively Very Funny, to me

Likes

139

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 7:42 PM

real shu english actually so cracked

nero must have taught him well

[tropic herald]

Real Shu (owl player)

[plush grail]

damn shu kinda cracked at fs and english

[willow tartan]

???

[plush grail]

he can do it all

[willow tartan]

what do you mean cracked at english

yeah he's better than most of you lot but that's not a hard bar to beat

[plush grail]

memeicus

check the account

[twin bloom]

Thats not shu

[cunning patrol]

Cope

[willow drum]

it is a joke

my bad if it was not clear

[willow tartan]

twitter doesnt allow u to read shit if u dont have an account

[plush grail]

tf u mean

it is real shu

[willow drum]

ofc ofc

[fathom igloo]

https://twitter.com/TeamPepsMAX/status/1544357318724304896?t=piTFn5IvdGZR5ZuTR037kQ&s=19

TEAM PEPS (@TeamPepsMAX)

Voici notre Roster pour les Contenders Summer Series🌴🔥

🛡️|🇫🇷 @BenBest_Ow
🛡️|🇩🇰 @WeaQ_OW
⚔️|🇫🇷 @Tsuyo_ow
⚔️|🇧🇪 @logixow
⚔️|🇩🇰 @NagaEz
💉|🇫🇷 @FDGod_OW
💉|🇫🇷 @Xeriongdh
💉|🇪🇸 @Khenail

🧠|🇫🇷@GetAmazed_ow
💼|🇫🇷 @Soenyy_
👑|🇫🇷 @FelxGG

#PepsMaxXx

Likes

1017

Retweets

207

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 4:27 PM

[plush grail]

legit would be mid tier in owl

[fathom igloo]

Facts

I'm just glad fdgod is on a team

https://twitter.com/PRE_owl/status/1544425533093576706?t=Bn2xh3V3JpU7OsbXo-y_XQ&s=19

DC Justice - PRE (@PRE_owl)

After 5 seasons the problem with OWL remains the same and if it continues will be the death of it, no one wants to make the league better, only themselves.

League prohibits teams from using media tools so only they get clicks. Teams fight over a dwindling fanbase instead of 1/x

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 8:58 PM

Bro pre is so based I love it

[vagrant jacinth]

That's an actually decent roster

[willow drum]

that is not a based take

[vagrant jacinth]

Pre needs to stop complaining on social media and take a look at wtf sup7eme is doing to the team

[willow drum]

Literally Pre needs to shut the fuck up

and clowning on the League

however correct it may be

and just accept Sup7eme is shit

And that he is wasting his own money

buying all these big names

[vagrant jacinth]

Valid points in all fairness but it's always the teams that are getting bodied to start the complaining

[willow drum]

when the team itself is shite.

Just actual bozo team

[balmy wolf]

Pre made it so nobody can comment 💀

[fathom igloo]

I mean he sees what's happening but he can't do a lot when it comes to coaching

[willow drum]

Justice's only relevancy over the years was getting reverse swept by Shock and almost beating Dallas last year

[vagrant jacinth]

Sup7eme doing stupid shit is the reason your team is a black hole of suck not whatever league is doing wrong

[balmy wolf]

No matter what pre says if he turns off comments his opinion is invalidated

[willow tartan]

^^

[willow drum]

Very based 45% Reinhardt

[willow drum]

good take

[willow tartan]

No matter who or what being said. Comments off = not important

[balmy wolf]

Tru

[vagrant jacinth]

Facts fr

[willow drum]

Winston will get punished

[frosty patrol]

london throws 32.1% of the time!

[willow drum]

against higher skilled teams

[willow drum]

lmaoo

[frosty patrol]

their sig comp is absolutely fucking cheeks

[vagrant jacinth]

We give our opponents hope 32.1% of the time you mean

[stray solar]

SOE IS HAVING A BABY??

Soe 2

[frosty patrol]

we have known this for like

3-4 months at least

[stray solar]

Lmfao I just found out

Soe 2 lets gooo

[candid radish]

Why are they all complaining anyway

Is it just cause they got fucked over by the one team playing the niche comp who have had an easy-ish qualifier and over preforming

[frosty patrol]

gator and sephy were the only ones to complain about that

christfer is just saying pre's complaints about the league are only showing up because justice are failing

unless I missed something PRE said

[balmy wolf]

Wait what did gator do this time ;-;

[frosty patrol]

this was a month ago

[balmy wolf]

Oh the London thing

[frosty patrol]

when gator got rolled by hadi

[balmy wolf]

I thought you meant they were talking about the justice

[willow tartan]

why would supreme even talk about it like that? it's obvious he'd just bring flak onto himself

no social media training?

[balmy wolf]

Probably as much as gator's manager

[frosty patrol]

what did sup7eme say? @willow tartan

PRE is the one talking

[balmy wolf]

I think pre is cringe

He should have made his tweetb

Like 5 hours ago and it could be on plat chat

But no

[frosty patrol]

he had an entire livestream a day or two ago

[balmy wolf]

I don't need cancer by watching someone complain about justice

[worn falcon]

i dont get pre stuff, like he is complaining on how they stick to only promote OWL?

[balmy wolf]

I think he's just coping that people made fun of him

[frosty patrol]

People unleash vile threads after a single bad performance then act surprised when players get cut or quit.
This is a good point

[candid radish]

I think from reading pre's tweet he makes some decent points about the state of the league

[willow tartan]

I remember him talking about the performances

[frosty patrol]

Yes

[willow tartan]

think moon apology but not an apology

[balmy wolf]

Yeah but I don't see what they could do to make it better rlly

[candid radish]

Would he have said this if he hadn't just been smoked for whinning about rein

[balmy wolf]

I can't rlly see what they would do better

[frosty patrol]

PRE is making good points but people are gonna "L + ratio" him because he says it while his team is on a loss streak and because of what christfer said

[balmy wolf]

No

[frosty patrol]

and also PRE has been talking about the state of OWL forever

[balmy wolf]

He wouldnt have said it either if people didn't spam him with cope gifs either

[hot onyx]

Only factual info

[frosty patrol]

he definitely would've said this if justice were 11-0

[balmy wolf]

I doubt he would have come out and made a tweet like this tho

[worn falcon]

https://twitter.com/PRE_owl/status/1544399807606923266

DC Justice - PRE (@PRE_owl)

I am clearly pointing out the issues with the lack of tools Blizzard is providing. I've been explicitly complimentary of your coaching in public interviews with Yiska, on my personal stream, and even to your boss, but I guess your maturity hasn't caught up to your coaching yet.

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 7:16 PM

[frosty patrol]

When did he wine about rein?

[worn falcon]

pre is butthurt tho

https://twitter.com/PRE_owl/status/1544349115135496192

DC Justice - PRE (@PRE_owl)

I don’t see the issue? Just have your players grind rein in ranked and th-

oh right, I mean uh, dig into stats lab and find comps that are doing well counte-

er, uh, give dev feedback that is def being liste-

wait no, um you could sign a player and wait for a visa to cle-

Likes

138

Twitter · Jul 5, 2022, 3:54 PM

[twin bloom]

His point isn't bad

Tho

[willow tartan]

disagree.

[candid radish]

Up arrow

[fathom igloo]

I mean so are most teams like London is like blacklisted from scrims

[earnest leaf]

Pre has good intentions when he talks about this stuff

[twin bloom]

It is so braindead

That their is no ranked

Mode

[earnest leaf]

Pre isn't wrong that teams lost a bunch of resources

[frosty patrol]

Have your player grind this hero in ranked
Use stats lab
Give developers feedback
Get a new player and a VISA immediately

[twin bloom]

They were blacklisted because they were worse than titans in preseason scrims

[frosty patrol]

he's right that all of these are unavailable

[earnest leaf]

Player practice outside of scrims is a joke

[plush grail]

what is the washington stuff about?

[twin bloom]

Only got good once they abuzed

Rush

[frosty patrol]

basically the first one is saying

[earnest leaf]

London also got an easy schedule this stage

[worn falcon]

But they can't do much

[frosty patrol]

how can your player practice a hero in a competitive environment currently unless you scrim it extensively

[worn falcon]

like

do they expect to blizz release an unfinished comp for OW2?

[balmy wolf]

Danteh grinded tracer in ranked for like a week on stream and brought it out in owl and played pretty well

[twin bloom]

They should not be able to beat teams like defiant and justice

[candid radish]

My thing is that none of this would've been said if the spitfire hadn't been on a tear arse this season

[worn falcon]

VISA issues are outside of league reach, iirc. Mostly from govt

[twin bloom]

London is really bad individually

[earnest leaf]

Danteh is historically a tracer player

[frosty patrol]

????

[twin bloom]

Worst in the league

[frosty patrol]

Uninformed take

[twin bloom]

But brawl meta

It is sad

[candid radish]

They have a style and they play that style well

[frosty patrol]

PRE has been making points about the state of the league since the beginning of time

this has nothing to do with people hating London

[twin bloom]

Yeah

[frosty patrol]

it's just PRE will always talk about the state of the league

[worn falcon]

SHD style

Sombra cant work

[willow tartan]

what can be done about it anyways?

I mean the problems listed

[plush grail]

nothing

[frosty patrol]

the stats one could be fixed

and developer feedback

but not ranked or VISAs

[willow tartan]

stats I don't think can be fixed in the same way ranked can't be

like why isn't there a replay viewer when something like that would make an incredible amount of content creation easier?

[worn falcon]

Stats can give some pointers, not priority but would be nice to have

Haven't heard anything about developer feedback

Ranked and VISA are out of reach of their hands or not viable.

[willow tartan]

humans are rational creatures and so I can't put myself to believe that stats is something they can do easily but choose not to do.

[candid radish]

Isn't quick play now closer to ranked or did I see something wrong?

[plush grail]

only the way the games are

u now get to attack AND defend

not just attack OR defend

[balmy wolf]

That's nice

[plush grail]

no sr or ways to play against similar skilled players

[balmy wolf]

I felt like games were often too short for the queue times

[vagrant jacinth]

An unranked mode basically

[balmy wolf]

I think unranked would be nice

[vagrant jacinth]

I think it's a nice addition

Siege have an unranked mode too, much better than casual games

[balmy wolf]

Siege unranked is super nice to have

The games are more serious than qp but nowhere near as serious as ranked

You don't have people trolling or anything or just doing anything but you also don't have people yelling in your ear

[trim shadow]

Damn the Team leaders are beefing

[trim shadow]

??? Holy shit

But i have a simple answer to pre and christfers complaints

Fire supreme

Supreme is dragging and killing ur team

It was made clear against london

You havent won a single control map all stage

[fathom igloo]

Wow who would of guessed

[trim shadow]

Correct me if im wrong?

[fathom igloo]

No you are right

[trim shadow]

When was the last team for a entire stage a team hasnt won a single mode? Cant say shanghai thats to easy

[fathom igloo]

Valiant last year?

[frosty patrol]

valiant lmfao

[fathom igloo]

Vancouver maybe

[frosty patrol]

this is simply the old saying "worse team wins control" at play

[trim shadow]

Honestly i do think the leauge needs new leadership and change but the change should be discussed amongst gm’s and team owners

[fathom igloo]

Honestly I hope they bring back the hero pools next season cause I loved them for the league

[trim shadow]

I have my issues mainly the fact this league is based off of city play and we are still locking players to there houses while other leauges have found solutions for lan

[fathom igloo]

Especially the goats 2.0

[balmy wolf]

Wait Danny is kinda jacked

[fathom igloo]

I mean we technically had lan play last stage and next

[trim shadow]

But my thing is

Thats a playoff scenario

[fathom igloo]

Truw

[trim shadow]

I feel like at this stage we have what

5 stages?

4?

[fathom igloo]

4

[balmy wolf]

If you could playoffs we have 5

[trim shadow]

Kickoff clash midseason countdown

One more im forgetting

[balmy wolf]

Summer showdown

[trim shadow]

Why hasnt no one said lets play here for 3 weeks and here for 3 weeks and playoffs that week and have a break

Repeat per stage

So that teams can make money cause i know a major issues is fiscal value among team owners

[balmy wolf]

I liked the homstands we had before covid

[trim shadow]

But the problem was travel

[worn falcon]

at least vancouver are sloooowly improving with dpei

[trim shadow]

I think glads had the worst problem

Basically travelling to korea china and backk to california over three weeks

[balmy wolf]

How long is the season is it 16 weeks?

Of play

[worn falcon]

but that doesnt stop them for being bottom barrel team

[balmy wolf]

I think apac and NA should have separate homestandsn

[trim shadow]

But then 80% of the homestands are in china

[worn falcon]

wait for china govt say no

[fathom igloo]

And China is in lockdown again

[balmy wolf]

They would

[trim shadow]

Which leads to a problem that wont be solved anytime soon and thats balance amongst the divisions

[worn falcon]

and korea neither

so

[frosty patrol]

22 weeks of play I think

[worn falcon]

hawaii mode again

[frosty patrol]

16 regular season

4 for stage playoffs and playins

[fathom igloo]

Can we move all the teams to Hawaii

[frosty patrol]

2 for actual playoffs

[trim shadow]

I think its time for expansion but the leauge owner probably doesnt agree and i think hes a little incompetent

[balmy wolf]

Apac is doing fine tho right? Do they have any problems like pre was talking about?

[worn falcon]

Make all the games in hawaii

fuck it

[frosty patrol]

Yes Bobby Kotick is shit but he is not in charge of the league

[worn falcon]

bring the chinese teams to live in hawaii

[frosty patrol]

also why would anyone buy an OWL slot

[trim shadow]

I wasnt talkin about bobby

Im talking about matt i think thats his name

[frosty patrol]

nobody owns the league but activision-blizzard

[worn falcon]

None willing to spend 30 to 60 millons for a slots where the OWL has show results or profit from those

[frosty patrol]

OWL cannot expand because an OWL slot is a fucking shit investment

[trim shadow]

Bobby is the gm of activision blizzard he doesnt directly control the leauge?????

[balmy wolf]

Does anyone know how many of the teams are NA teams

[frosty patrol]

if I was a multibillionaire I'd buy an OWL slot but that'd be for fun not a serious investment

[trim shadow]

And my point was proven if the whole concept of leauge is city based how are teams gonna make a profit if we havent found the answer for lan

[worn falcon]

Bobby is the CEO but he doesn make the league structure and shit.

[balmy wolf]

13 i think

[trim shadow]

Like we need another korean team maybe 2 or 3

[worn falcon]

the point with franchised structure is your team doesnt lose the spot even if theyre the bottom barrel team like Paris or Vanc

[frosty patrol]

Cities don't matter for OWL really

they're just names at this point

[balmy wolf]

15 if you add the 2 na teams playing in apac

[worn falcon]

Unlike the other tournaments where a contenders can slap your face and grab your slot

[frosty patrol]

owl has a total of 13 NA teams currently and 14 once paris moves to vegas

[trim shadow]

Fuck it everyone should go NA

[balmy wolf]

My bad I meant

[frosty patrol]

and then 13 again once valiant becomes the Beijing Bears

[trim shadow]

Sorry china ur out

[balmy wolf]

How many teams play in the NA

[frosty patrol]

13

[worn falcon]

there is allegedly 2 o 3 team rebranding?

[balmy wolf]

Like how many teams aren't in APAC

[frosty patrol]

both answers are 13

[trim shadow]

Paris is the only confirmed

[worn falcon]

yeh, paris is the only confirmed, but i think halo or i dont remember who, said there were more coming

[balmy wolf]

Could Vegas and LA be used as the same homestand? I don't live near there to know how the commute is

[trim shadow]

Wouldnt be gad damn suprised

[frosty patrol]

it'd be pretty hard

[trim shadow]

Id rather the bar be lowered to allow new orgs into the leauge but i am a insignificant voice

[worn falcon]

mfw comcast cancelled fusion stadium

the cope

[trim shadow]

2-3 hours apart but if theres traffic its like 5 i heard

[frosty patrol]

that's a 5 hour drive

[worn falcon]

and the league by not bringing monies

[frosty patrol]

LA-Vegas is 5 hours

[balmy wolf]

mm

[trim shadow]

The fuckin hype for seeing teams building stadiums

[frosty patrol]

You have to realize how long the distance actually is

it's like triple San Diego

and similar to DC-NYC

[balmy wolf]

Would it be possible to rotate between online play and LAN play?

[trim shadow]

Lan play is more beneficial to help the teams earn money

[balmy wolf]

Yah but the travel

[worn falcon]

And Vancounver getting partnered with state of the art Adamas Esports Training + Performance, a world class facility to call home located in one of the top human performance centres in the country, Fortius Sport & Health.

[trim shadow]

But i want to make this leauge last 10 years

[balmy wolf]

What if week 1 was at a city teams LAN and week 2 is online play and week 3 is at a new city

Something like that

Would that work at all?

[worn falcon]

i think this or next year gonna be the last stages for OWL lol

if they dont get their shit together

and bring some flexibility to teams

plus OWL lacking on sponsors

if they dont get sponsors they gonna go down the toilet

[valid hawk]

yeah no ones playing the game, so little people wathces

[balmy wolf]

It definitely had solid viewership

That's not the problem

[worn falcon]

isnt like no one playing the game, is the whole company in shambles

if MS buyout goes in is possible to see some changes

otherwise they're fucked

[balmy wolf]

The company is slowing loosing money coming in from the league and teams have barely any way to make money if they aren't winning

[trim shadow]

Thanks bobby

[worn falcon]

thanks WOW devs too

and HR

[trim shadow]

Have to agree cod leauge is doing between 300k-500k and ow would hit 110-290k thats not active viewers thats just toal

Total

And i believe active is a better metric

[balmy wolf]

Yah

How much of a difference does orgs as opposed to city based teams make

In terms of money

[willow drum]

does this include the massive amounts of overseas views like in asia?

[balmy wolf]

Probably

[worn falcon]

*inflated asia numbers

mfw OWL should move to korea, fuck USA

[balmy wolf]

Gator would die

He would melt

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-disintergrating-meme-emoji-disintegrating-meme-gif-21239978

[trim shadow]

Honestly dont know the billibilli metrics but at least for over here the streams would hit 150k-220k for total viewership

[trim shadow]

Owl should move out of Los Angeles

[frosty patrol]

isn't ow currently at like 100k+ for average regular season games

[trim shadow]

Honestly when microsoft takes over i pray for good chanhe

[balmy wolf]

Where else would they move

LA is the headquarters for the company

[frosty patrol]

(30k is just the English broadcast)

[trim shadow]

Yes which means they cant rlly leave california but its not benefitting

[worn falcon]

that if happens and MS wants to hemorrhage money with League

[trim shadow]

And its not owl its also cod leauge that would fall under them

[worn falcon]

tfw Microsoft wanted ActiBlizz just for Candy Crush

[balmy wolf]

Like if we look at LoL eSports what are they doing differently as far as the LCS goes

They have the orgs instead of cities

[trim shadow]

The lcs has its own studio

[twin bloom]

Just 2 years ago owl averaged 92k on twitch

[trim shadow]

Thats number 1

[twin bloom]

And now owl is lucky to get 100k for playoffs

It is sad

[trim shadow]

But its own studio isnt gonna help owl for a couple of reasons

1. Like i said cities

2. Nobody wants togo california and californians are weird

Reason

Expensive

California

[balmy wolf]

Ultimately I feel like orgs would help money wise but I feel like switching to orgs over city based teams would lose even more viewers

But it might be what they have to do

[trim shadow]

That’s basically suicide

[balmy wolf]

It's also suicide to stay like this

[trim shadow]

Lesser of two evils

[frosty patrol]

Candy Crush Soda Saga > Candy Crush Saga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Candy Crush Jelly Saga

[balmy wolf]

Unless they come up with some 5head idea they're gonna need to get money from somewhere

[frosty patrol]

imho

[balmy wolf]

I'd rather have a league with orgs than no league

[worn falcon]

competitive candy crush moms league when

[trim shadow]

The simple answer is go back to what the leauge was suppose to be for

[frosty patrol]

My Dad beat every level of candy saga and soda saga

[trim shadow]

The travelling road show

[frosty patrol]

my grandma beat every level so far period

[trim shadow]

City games

Community interraction

[frosty patrol]

my grandma is also the bubble witch deity

[balmy wolf]

But then you have hundreds of players complaining

With the traveling

Not hundreds

More like 30

:)

[trim shadow]

More like 5 cause im pretty sure most of the players miss the lan experience

[balmy wolf]

Shock don't

[worn falcon]

hard to do when covid still a thing, and we gotta see how its goes for other like 10 years

[trim shadow]

? Uk most covid restrictions have been laxed

[balmy wolf]

I think we need a player to do something so terribly horrendous that we end up in the news

[trim shadow]

Or basically removed

[balmy wolf]

Too bad there's only 1 team in Europe

[trim shadow]

Thats not an issue if a arena wants a covid rule they can do that

[balmy wolf]

I think they should just bring in the format for the first seasons as far as the homestands go

Except to still separate APAC and NA during regular szn

[trim shadow]

Im standing firm on the fact a entire stage should be in 1 city or at least 3 weeks and 3 weeks

Like atlanta to miami

[balmy wolf]

Yeah I wouldn't mind that

[trim shadow]

New york to washington

Toronto to vancouver

Dallas to houston

Every city listed is a day flight hell no more then 6-7 hours apart

[balmy wolf]

Most of the teams I think are relatively close to another team

Except for London

[trim shadow]

Fuck the brits

[balmy wolf]

Nah they can have 1

[frosty patrol]

vancouver is pretty far from san francisco

toronto is a little far from boston/new york but nothing extreme

[balmy wolf]

That's not what I mean

I meant like

Atlanta is close to mayhem

Houston and Dallas

LA and Vegas

Most teams have another team relatively near by

[frosty patrol]

yes

vancouver and toronto don't have teams relatively that close

and honestly

mayhem are pretty far from reign

[balmy wolf]

It's only 1 state so it's not the worst

It's better than traveling from NY to LA

[frosty patrol]

miami and atlanta is 10 hours

vancouver and san francisco is 16 hours

[trim shadow]

Vancouver and San Francisco are the most isolated

[trim shadow]

Driving

[frosty patrol]

nah

[balmy wolf]

What if SF Vancouver and London has their own homestands for the stage

[frosty patrol]

san francisco is less isolated than atlanta, vancouver, and mayhem for NA teams

[willow tartan]

florida isnt miami though

[frosty patrol]

where the hell are you doing this from

[frosty patrol]

mayhem HQ is Miami

[trim shadow]

Atlanta

[balmy wolf]

Like for example you could have a stage that spent 2 weeks in Atlanta and 2 weeks in Miami

[trim shadow]

Florida has always been in miami

[frosty patrol]

center city Atlanta - Miami is 10 hours

[trim shadow]

Why do u think they are pink and black

[frosty patrol]

you must be a suburban man

[willow tartan]

also the most isolated team is Chengdu

[trim shadow]

Miami vice

[frosty patrol]

I said "for NA teams"

[trim shadow]

Sorta

[balmy wolf]

I'm no genius but I happen to live inside of Atlanta

It's 10 hrs

[frosty patrol]

yes

[willow tartan]

actually

[frosty patrol]

it is 10 hours

[willow tartan]

depends how you count it

if you take high speed rail i think chengdu-shanghai is much faster than a lot of other places

[balmy wolf]

Going to Orlando is 8 hours

But that's not the point rn

[frosty patrol]

Toronto-Boston is 9 hours, Vancouver-SF is 16, SF to LA is 6, Atlanta-Miami is 10

vancouver is the most isolated

by far

[balmy wolf]

What if stage 1 spent 2 weeks in Atlanta 2 weeks in Miami
Stage 2 is 2 weeks in LA and 2 weeks in Vegas
Stage 3 is 2 weeks in at NYXL and 2 weeks in Boston

Something like that

[willow tartan]

that moment when homestands 2020 system

god if only

we couldd've sseeen north american players play in chinese soil

that wouldve been so fucking hype

[balmy wolf]

And Vancouver and Toronto could be a pair they are kinda far away but with a lan system the teams would have money to pay for flights

[frosty patrol]

chengdu to shanghai is only 5 hours more of a drive than vancouver-sf actually

so the gap is not that big

wow

[willow tartan]

how fast by train?

[trim shadow]

Couldve sworn chengdu is litterally in a valley

[frosty patrol]

urumqi team when

[willow tartan]

Yes

Cities are usually in valleys

cause mountains are ass places to put cities

[frosty patrol]

cannot use NA resources for that

[trim shadow]

Switzerlands want to talk to you

[frosty patrol]

would have to go on Chinese internet

[willow tartan]

swiss cities are in valleys you fucking rock head

[frosty patrol]

geneva is on a flat plain right next to a lake surrounded by mountains

[trim shadow]

Basically what i said 👍

[frosty patrol]

it's a valley

[balmy wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/madcat-ygzcat-cat-pussy-madpussy-gif-24909889

[trim shadow]

Switzerland is technically one of the taller countries compared to rest of the eu in terms of height to sea floor on rivalved by germany so technically they are mostly mountainous

[willow tartan]

you can be mountainous and be in a valley at the same time

[frosty patrol]

5 most isolated teams are seoul, chengdu, vancouver, guangzhou, mayhem/reign tie

[willow tartan]

valley has nothing to do with relative height to sea level

[frosty patrol]

in order

so that's 6

since 5th is a tie

[balmy wolf]

Are we forgetting London

They're gonna be the most isolated

[willow tartan]

you are doing this by geographic distance?

[frosty patrol]

by driving time

(seoul is first because there is no driving option)

[trim shadow]

I thought shanghai to seoul was a 8 hour flight

[willow tartan]

no

its like 3 hours

[frosty patrol]

2

[balmy wolf]

Maybe like 8 hours of waiting in a line

[trim shadow]

Of course there isnt considering no one drives in north korea

[frosty patrol]

let's exclude Seoul from the driving competition

[willow tartan]

there is a land connection though

[frosty patrol]

1. Chengdu
2. Vancouver
3. Guangzhou
   T4. Mayhem
   T4. Reign

excluding london too

[trim shadow]

Why mayhem reign if ur accounting for driving?

Is this cause the nearest to city to both of them is dc?

[frosty patrol]

mayhem reign are 10 hour drives which is tied for 4th

the nearest city for both is each other

so they are tied

atlanta to DC is an insane drive

[trim shadow]

It is i did it before

[willow tartan]

you can drive from london to paris

[trim shadow]

A good ole 12-13 hours

[willow tartan]

through the channel tunnel

[frosty patrol]

wait atlanta is equidistant to DC and miami by drive

[balmy wolf]

Relatively

[frosty patrol]

but the DC route is prone to the worst traffic possible

so I'll call Miami their closest

[balmy wolf]

Nah that's just being in atlanta

[frosty patrol]

Same with DC

2 worst traffic cities

[trim shadow]

But florida has all those damn toll rodes

[frosty patrol]

so like

[willow tartan]

they are not equidistant

[frosty patrol]

equal time*

mistyped

[balmy wolf]

Who in the right mind would drive from Atlanta to Mayhem if your on a team tho

They have some of the biggest airports in the country

[frosty patrol]

9h56 for DC, 9h44 for Miami

[willow tartan]

that is not equal

[frosty patrol]

and DC has shittier traffic

[balmy wolf]

You could honestly fly for cheaper than paying for godamn Florida tolls

[frosty patrol]

wrong, you can avoid most florida tolls

go through the backroads

into like fucking belle isle

and shit

[willow tartan]

mike what is the longest distance between two owl teams?

[trim shadow]

Atlanta has the biggest second/tied to jfk/new york/ and lax los angeles

[frosty patrol]

driveable it's likely vancouver-mayhem

let me run some calcs

[trim shadow]

San Francisco

You would have to pass through 7-8 states to get to florida

[balmy wolf]

Drivable would be London to Guangzhou probablyn

[trim shadow]

And another 9 hours to cross all of florida

[frosty patrol]

SF to Miami is definitely closer than Vancouver to Miami

[willow tartan]

sounds about right

[hot onyx]

Host the league in Yemen instead

[willow tartan]

I aggree

Yemen is a cool place

[frosty patrol]

52 hours for vancouver to miami

also yes driveable is london to guangzhou

[willow tartan]

how many hours?

[frosty patrol]

45 for SF to Miami

[hot onyx]

Soe Reinforce and Custa couldn’t go though, they’re analysts

[trim shadow]

Vancouver to miami is basically through north dakota down kansas into iowa through missouri a litte down through Tennessee pass through alabama/mississipi into georiga and then into florida

[frosty patrol]

not calculatable

sadge

[willow tartan]

?? who cares

means we dont have to wait 1 hour for games to start

[frosty patrol]

so you're trying to argue with google maps?

[balmy wolf]

Yes

Google maps has nothing on me

[trim shadow]

San Francisco is like through arizona up into Oklahoma if ur bypassing texas down through Louisiana or Tennessee into south carolina down through georgia then into florida

[frosty patrol]

you're telling me google maps is wrong about vancouver being 7 hours longer than SF to drive to Miami?

[willow tartan]

what is the shortest route possible to visit every single state in america

[trim shadow]

Florida to washington

Well depends on the highway

[balmy wolf]

That definitely doesn't visit every single state

[trim shadow]

Every highway is connected (duh) but there is a singular major highway through most states

[willow tartan]

yes i am sure hawaii is connected by highway

[trim shadow]

I wasnt including hawaii

[willow tartan]

alaska?

[trim shadow]

Hawaii u have to fly to regardless

You can get into Alaska through vancouver ish

I think u have to ferry tho

[willow tartan]

guantanamo bay

[trim shadow]

Also have to fly

[hot onyx]

Mfw nobody understands obscure Jack Ryan reference

[willow tartan]

what state is that aprt of?

[balmy wolf]

I've never even heard about it

:p

[trim shadow]

Virgin islands

[willow drum]

is it considered a state

[trim shadow]

No not that

[willow drum]

i dont think cuban land is state

[willow tartan]

so its just federal land like DC?

[trim shadow]

No its a territory

[balmy wolf]

I think it's a territory

[willow tartan]

colony

[balmy wolf]

No

[willow tartan]

that's what it is

[willow drum]

The United States assumed territorial control over the southern portion of Guantánamo Bay under the 1903 Lease.[1] The United States exercises jurisdiction and control over this territory, while recognizing that Cuba retains ultimate sovereignty. The government of Cuba regards the U.S. presence in Guantánamo Bay as an illegal occupation on the basis that the Cuban–American Treaty "was obtained by threat of force and is in violation of international law." Some legal scholars judge that the lease may be voidable.[2] It is the home of the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base and the Guantanamo Bay detention camp located within the base, which are both governed by the United States. Since the 1959 revolution, Cuba has only cashed a single lease payment from the United States government.[3]

[willow tartan]

if its not federal land

[trim shadow]

Cuba is a country but theres a island that could be its own country but its a territory

Right next to it

[willow drum]

"Cuba retains ultimate sovereignty"

[willow tartan]

so they are renting the land

[willow drum]

could be

[trim shadow]

Peurto rico

[willow tartan]

(with guns)

what about uhh

the other american places that arent states

like guam, the american virgin islands, puerto rico, okinawa, the panama canal, the phlippines.

[balmy wolf]

Only ones I know abt are virgin island and Puerto Rico

I don't think the panama canal is ours at all

It might be tho but I thought it was 100% to Panama

And Philippines is independent

I don't think it's even considered a territory anymore

[willow tartan]

don't forget greenland and baja peninsula

as well as 10% of antarctica

[balmy wolf]

Do people even live in Greenland

People that live there are fake

[trim shadow]

Like

4%

Probably nomads

And 1 major city

But greenland is mostly unihabited

Like canada

Fun fact

[willow tartan]

fun fact: usa is also mostly uninhabited

[trim shadow]

Mostly true

Its the fact that all of the population is condensed to the east coast

Texas

And the west

[balmy wolf]

Did you see that Texas is going to vote to secede lmao

[willow tartan]

based

[trim shadow]

Wouldnt blame em

[willow tartan]

lone star republic shit bro

[trim shadow]

Ill put in my application for citizenship if it happens

[willow tartan]

it would be so funny

i fully support it

[balmy wolf]

I wanna say there's no shot it would go through but knowing Texas

It's definitely possible

The Republican party put it on the GOP list for things to vote on in 2023

[willow tartan]

If Texas secedes from the union I will be the first country to recognize their independence (even though I am not a recognised country)

[balmy wolf]

So if they win (which they will) it will be a vote lmao

[hot onyx]

Fun fact, if the top 1% of richest people in the world died of natural causes and that wealth was spread among the other 99% it would end multiple cases of poverty, world hunger, and homelessness

[earnest leaf]

Texas can't secede

[balmy wolf]

Legally they can't

[earnest leaf]

We had a whole war over this

[balmy wolf]

But since when did they care about legality

[willow tartan]

if the people who live there want to leave then why can't they leave?

dont they have the highest guns per capita? they can probably secede

[balmy wolf]

They can they just gotta move :)

[earnest leaf]

^

[balmy wolf]

Not more than the military

[willow tartan]

not every person has the financial capability to leave

[balmy wolf]

Then they don't need to secede

[willow tartan]

dumb logic

[earnest leaf]

They try to do this every few years anyways

[balmy wolf]

If you don't have the money to leave a state then voting for your state seceding isn't gonna make you more money

Your gonna make even less money

[tropic herald]

Texas secession gets brought up every other decade and every time they are reminded they can’t do it and if they could it would be bad for them

[willow tartan]

but it would be funny if they did

[trim shadow]

Its in there constituion they have a right to succeed

[balmy wolf]

It would be very funny

[willow tartan]

please dissolve the union i am so tired of the american story arc in history

i want WAR

like... real war

[balmy wolf]

It's the exact opposite in the US Constitution which overwrites the state one

[trim shadow]

California doesnt have the right to succeed in there state constitution which is why it failed

[willow tartan]

not here of course, just like elsewhere where I can watch from a safe distance

[balmy wolf]

You already have one going on in Ukraine

Watch that oneb

[willow tartan]

that's not a real war

[trim shadow]

Theres a war?

Thats a political war

[willow tartan]

the two countries aren't trying to actually murder each other full out

which is booring

[balmy wolf]

Texas seceding is gonna be even less that Ukraine rn

[willow tartan]

but it would be funny

[trim shadow]

Almost all war is political no glory for country just getting seats into higher power

[earnest leaf]

I mean it's still a war

[willow tartan]

yeah but a shit war

lame war

[balmy wolf]

I want Texas to secede and us to just not go into war with them

[earnest leaf]

Yea cuz russia is dumb

[balmy wolf]

I wanna see how well Texas and it's economy does

[willow tartan]

can we go back to the good ol days of glorious war?

[balmy wolf]

I don't think your country wants to

[earnest leaf]

If you want a big war that's asking for nukes

[willow tartan]

not my country

other countries

[balmy wolf]

;-;

[willow tartan]

nobody will nuke where i live its fine

at least until the world economy grinds to a halt and i have to start rationing food

[trim shadow]

never know

[balmy wolf]

I think if Texas secedes that will also solve every political problem our nation has

[willow tartan]

what else am i going to watch in the overwatch league off seasons?

[tropic herald]

This still does not mean they actually can

[willow tartan]

6 months is a very long time

[trim shadow]

Contenders

[balmy wolf]

No

[willow tartan]

contenders where sorry?

[balmy wolf]

Contenders is fake

[willow tartan]

contenders doesnt even cover the off season lol

[balmy wolf]

It's nothing more than a rumor of the past

[willow tartan]

they run lik ebetween stages

[willow drum]

starts 7/13

[willow tartan]

i cant wait to see NA contenders orgs get relegated

[willow drum]

im not going to watch

that shit region

instead i will dedicate myself to discovering how heesang shits on every other dps in the kr region

[willow tartan]

i will resgister to korean contenders

and destroy him with my gamer skills\

ED tenders team man

[trim shadow]

But if u register to en contenders you will get signed to owl within 6 weeks to be a bencher

[hot onyx]

I’m excited to watch Korean contenders and see RPEN and YaHo show more mechanical talent in a single match than Belosrea has in his entire career

[willow drum]

Are you excited

for season 6

Sans?

[hot onyx]

This off season cannot come soon enough

[willow drum]

I agree

[cunning patrol]

If you unironically

[willow drum]

Also isn't YaHo a coach

[cunning patrol]

Believe yaho is better than belosrea

[willow drum]

for O2 blast

[cunning patrol]

You are really dumb

[hot onyx]

I believe YaHo is better on winston

Not on ball or rein though

[frosty patrol]

yaho is better than belosrea at junkrat

no lie

[willow drum]

are you ready for your team

[cunning patrol]

I believe you should be castrated

[willow drum]

to fuck up again

and let clestyn slip

through their fingers

into the hands of SF Shock

[hot onyx]

Only based on the fact that YaHo doesn’t feed his guts out at every given opportunity

Belos is better mechanically but brainwise he is in argument for the dumbest main tank in the league

[hot onyx]

I respect Roston and have faith in him to not go the budget route for the third time in a row despite having one of the fattest bags in the league

[willow drum]

Are you confident

in "Roston"

to make the correct decision

If he did not sign Clestyn this year

why would he next year

[hot onyx]

He was blinded by Fury

Big name must equal big performance

Like Boston with Striker

Or Glads with Ans

[willow drum]

💀

[hot onyx]

Instead of signing folks that deserve to be in the league

Like Perfact

And Avillos

[frosty patrol]

stellar and syrus* @hot onyx

[hot onyx]

I suddenly have a newfound respect for Stellar

Having to carry deadweight like Finale and FiXa to the finals

[frosty patrol]

I've respected Stellar for 4 years

[hot onyx]

Respect him in the military

[frosty patrol]

QoQ and Stellar had to carry FiXa and Finale

[hot onyx]

Real

Seoul really looked at Clestyn QoQ Attack and Gargoyle and said “Smurf clears”

[willow drum]

smurf is insanely talented

would not be surprised

if he does in fact

clear

[tropic herald]

Smurf does clear them

But not Void

[hot onyx]

Not Clestyn

Smurf is good but not top 5

ot

[cunning patrol]

Agree

He was always

A solid player

Way bettor than strikers 2022 form imo

[hot onyx]

One of the few players in NA that could hold his own in KR imo

[frosty patrol]

Clestyn QoQ Max Attack Gargoyle Toyou and Root*

[hot onyx]

Isn’t Max underage?

[tropic herald]

Gargoyle good player 👍👍

[frosty patrol]

depends

the chinese one is 24

[willow drum]

Max is 17

[hot onyx]

Don’t forget Cane

[cunning patrol]

Having a solo tank

Is objectively better

In the long run

[tropic herald]

True

[frosty patrol]

yes but QoQ is objectively better as a solo tank IMO

[tropic herald]

QoQ sucks

[frosty patrol]

Root is also a better option

and so is F4ZE

[hot onyx]

Yeah I agree having a main tank off rolling against the best off tanks in the world is objectively better

Than having a second option

[frosty patrol]

this list is so bad

[tropic herald]

It’s good until it doesn’t work

[frosty patrol]

in what world is mag that low

[tropic herald]

And it’s working for Seoul

[frosty patrol]

he's bad but

not bottom 2

[tropic herald]

VOID IN SHAKY

Tell me you don’t watch Shanghai games without saying you don’t watch Shanghai games

[willow drum]

how is mag

below gator

[frosty patrol]

also danteh above void cr0ng kalios and just below hadi ga9a

is so stupid

similarly bad list

fixa above admiral lengsa nisha

[balmy wolf]

Is UV the one in the top right?

[frosty patrol]

ch0r0ng in decent

yes

[balmy wolf]

Oki

[willow drum]

HOW

ARE NISHA

[hot onyx]

Ain’t no way Belosrea Fury are above Void Kellan and Mag

[tropic herald]

Opener above Irony

[willow drum]

FAITH

[frosty patrol]

they think ch0r0ng is the 8th best main support below masaa btw

[willow drum]

AND LENGSA

SO LOW

BUT MASAA

IS SO HIGH

[balmy wolf]

I know our supports in Atlanta are quite good and all but are they elite and great I think they would be great and decent

[willow drum]

WHY IS MMONK

[tropic herald]

AIMGOD ABOVE IRONY

[willow drum]

"decent"

[tropic herald]

[willow drum]

KAAN ABOVE IRIS

[hot onyx]

Brainless

[willow drum]

SIRMAJED

HIGHER THAN VIOL2T

WTFF

what are aimgod crimzo doing

in "great:

[willow drum]

is this same person

[tropic herald]

Crimzo is the Zen goat

[frosty patrol]

yes

[hot onyx]

FiXa above anyone is dumb

[frosty patrol]

they have ch0r0ng 8th and below masaa

[willow drum]

okay show their dps one

i am about to see them

put fleta above proper

[frosty patrol]

there is no dps one

[willow drum]

okay good

my eyes will be spared

[hot onyx]

Creative Iris below Majed Aimgod Krillin Crimzo

[tropic herald]

Aimgod above Irony

[hot onyx]

Average Spark hating Fusion fan

[cunning patrol]

I hope this person dies

[willow drum]

his legs 🥵

[cunning patrol]

Genuinely

[willow drum]

LMAO

if he was an ed user

would he be little 3

[hot onyx]

Below Dullahan FGK or Flameknight?

Oh hi Flameknight

[earnest leaf]

why are twilight and viol2t in the same tier as kaan

[cunning patrol]

This guy abbreviated Forgoodking

Lmaooooo

@twilit oriole u letting this happen?

[willow drum]

yes would u think that?

[hot onyx]

Probably yeah, at least some of their takes on Spark or Defiant are tolerable

Despite FGK being biased as a Defiant fan

[twilit oriole]

Fuck whoever said that

[willow drum]

lmaoo

it wasnt pokemon pat

that is 4 sure

[cunning patrol]

He said you bottom 3 lmaoooooo

Guy put you under pokemonpat

[hot onyx]

Pokemonpat is too casual to give horrible takes not involving the mild Justice hopium

Not bottom 3 material imo

[twilit oriole]

Who

[hot onyx]

Me

[cunning patrol]

Scroll up u fat fuck

[twilit oriole]

Why are you talking you fcking Philly twat

My takes are better than yours

Don’t speak

Take in

Defiant made the tourney

And Philly might not

And if they did, they’d be below defiant

How does that feel

[hot onyx]

I am the biggest Philly hater wdym “fan”?

[twilit oriole]

Shut up

[hot onyx]

I go where their dps line goes

Everyone else on the roster can retire and I’ll be hyped for Carpe MN3 and ZEST to play without 16 ton weights holding them back

Not exactly “fan” behaviour

Also you say your takes are better than mine as if you predicted London to be better than Boston

[cunning patrol]

You’re literally an idiot

[balmy wolf]

Wish me luck this week

Me and my friends did a coin flip for choosing APAC games

Cause at that point we have a better chance of getting pickems right

And my coin made seoul get swept by Philly and valiant

[fathom igloo]

Only to get 3-0d

[twin bloom]

I am excited to ser top tiet apac main tankers

Lose to mikeyy

[next mesa]

smurf will own that fraud

[twilit oriole]

You didn’t even make it

Also we’d play spark

Which we would win

[twin bloom]

Smurf will own muze for sure

[next mesa]

who made this

[balmy wolf]

What are my chances of seoul getting swept by Philly and valiant this week

[next mesa]

this is terrible

[next mesa]

approximately 0

[balmy wolf]

Fuck

It's fine I got this

[next mesa]

seoul gonna sweep both

tbh

easily too

[balmy wolf]

My coin disagrees

[next mesa]

your coin is shit

[balmy wolf]

No my coin is correct

I only lost 1 match last week

My apac coin will never fail

[frosty patrol]

...

this list

"Lengsa is the worst main support in owl"

[fathom igloo]

looking for asked

[twilit oriole]

You don’t ask, you listen

[frosty patrol]

"ch0r0ng is mid"

[balmy wolf]

Ojee is great it has my approval

[frosty patrol]

ojee is mid currently imo

[balmy wolf]

But he's on Atlanta

So it's okay

[willow tartan]

where is viol2t main support ranking

[devout path]

creative...

[twin bloom]

Chorong and ojee both top tier

Main supporters

[balmy wolf]

Ojee isn't top tier yet

Not when you look at the other ppl in top tier

I think people should be moved around in the great tier tho

[full lichen]

Ngl I think KDG going to Paris lol

[cloud latch]

chorong below ojee admiral and superich lol

[frosty patrol]

bad list

but more reasonable than some of the others

[full lichen]

Some are questionable like having Hydron as high as he is but, it's not bad

[frosty patrol]

profit above lip fits proper kevster kai pelican is dumb imo