esports-discussion

[plush grail]

im gonna draw u

[noble nexus]

???

Is that a threat???

[plush grail]

;)

[tawdry hamlet]

All star event where it's the same teams just coach swapped

That'd be amusing to see a dpei vs imt

[plush grail]

can we just start a fundraiser

gather some money

[tawdry hamlet]

Start a fundraiser for a toilet bowl game

[plush grail]

so we can see la valiant vs titans/spitfire

[tawdry hamlet]

GoFundMe help fly Vancouver Titans to Hawaii

[plush grail]

let's do it

[tacit skiff]

GoFundMe help me fly to Hawaii

[noble nexus]

why are you winking at me?????

paris fans smh

[plush grail]

;) ;)

[hot onyx]

Remember when Philly beat the Dragons?

[noble nexus]

Nah when was that

[hot onyx]

https://youtu.be/7-UFxVUJ0e4

[noble nexus]

huh weird

[hot onyx]

God I miss Dayfly

[noble nexus]

still don't remember philly ever beating shanghai >:)

[next mesa]

https://twitter.com/seanzcollins/status/1422303824711127047 cmon bring it home

Sean Collins (@seanzcollins)

Source: I've been assured that Pine will be in Dallas for this current Overwatch League season. I think that was always the case and plan, but was told that will definitely happen. No date right now.

Likes

132

Twitter · Aug 2, 2021, 9:10 PM

[little tusk]

when

there are like

3 weeks left

[noble nexus]

hitscan sucks I doubt they play him at all anyways

[limber pine]

Unless long range hit scan needs to be played in the playoffs (they won’t), he won’t play

[next mesa]

cree doe

and soldier has been like kinda present

[earnest leaf]

It depends

It very heavily depends on which comp comes on top

the bunker poke comps with rein or orisa and cree/torb

or ball dive comps with tracer sombra

[raw ermine]

still can't believe drags are 0-2

[tropic herald]

just watched dridro hit a sick af bash

[tacit skiff]

I rewatched the Shock vs Boston game
The only reason Shock won Lijang was because of Twilight on Brig

That one brig shield saved three shock members from Punk's bomb

Brig as a character cost Boston the map 1 win

[balmy wolf]

I’m watching the replay of fuel and eternal rn it’s my first time watching a full OW game and I love watching there tracer play as a tracer main I’m like wow

[tawdry hamlet]

top level tracer pathing is nuts

they always know which direction to go for the next health p;ack or to chase down the hero, they have like the next 5 moves planned out before they even make them

it is so cool to watch

like in 4 seconds you see blink into health pack out the door one clip zen blink out to a different healthpack

and it is just nutty how they choreograph it

[balmy wolf]

I’ve been amazed by there pulse bomb accuracy and timing. I saw sparkle like double blink right on top of a zen and onigod perfectly baits a brig into a pulse kinda like there approach to it was nutty

[tawdry hamlet]

yeah the cohesion they have where like they basically have this active radar in their head with everyones location on it is crazy

ult setup I mean, like they weave in bomb recall so smoothly

[next mesa]

it looks like top tracers get significantly better at sticking the pulse every single year

like I bet the attach rate got up each year

[tacit skiff]

tracer barely ever gets tuned so she's been the most consistent character in overwatch

as long as she stays consistent, people will only get better at her

[nova cove]

Ok what team has the best DVa player isn't it Shanghai dragons

[noble nexus]

Valiant

The 2 best dva players

[raw ermine]

in reality, probably hanbin on dallas

[willow tartan]

hanbin yea

[noble nexus]

Highbee?

Hello?

[next mesa]

Hanbin and Void

cant believe dva was considered hanbin's weakest OT coming into this season

[tacit skiff]

everyone sleeping on Punk

[tawdry hamlet]

if hawk was able to absorb barrages he would be a really good dva

but he always seems to miss those

[earnest leaf]

I'll cut dva's some slack in the meta

they have to do so much

[tawdry hamlet]

Hawk and Punk are tied rn imo

and fury below them

for dva even though he is literally fury :(((

[vagrant cargo]

Space

[tawdry hamlet]

Gladiator fan incoming

[vagrant cargo]

Also Punk has Had his First ever top Performance and ppl already have him that high?

Its Just true man come on

No way Punk>space

[tawdry hamlet]

it is the same reaction people had last month when boston rolled justice and he looked like that

Boston has actually won a bit recently now that I think about it

[vagrant cargo]

He didnt even Play majority of that Match iirc

And He was deffo not outstanding

Space has been great since end of May melee

[tawdry hamlet]

I feel like space was so overrated coming into the season that he has become underrated in a way, like nobody rates him top 5 when realistically he is probably top 5 this season

[vagrant cargo]

Yeah agreed

[tawdry hamlet]

but then last year people acted like he was s tier

wonder what is wrong with fury this year

I also wonder if toronto would be looking different if fury had gone with kdg and heesu and sado

[earnest leaf]

Space has never been rated that highly

He was always rated highly among Western OTs though

In that case he was the top

[gusty rampart]

He's an above average off tank

He's like Super, I watch his streams are really enjoy his personality

[willow tartan]

super is good mt, not above average :(

[gusty rampart]

According to a lot of people he is

I personally think he's like top 5 mts

[supple prism]

https://twitter.com/super_OW/status/1422385671159750660?s=20

Matthew DeLisi (@super_OW)

https://t.co/SlnRZROVaI

Retweets

107

Likes

2078

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 2:35 AM

[tacit skiff]

3-1 last two tournies, with another 3-1 likely for the cc

depends on if Florida gets their shit together or not

set your alarms ladies and gentlemen

[willow tartan]

🍞 🥣

[tawdry hamlet]

I don't know if super is top 5 or not because I have never seen him work without a good system around him and when I have they got rolled but that system is having its own problems out side of super so it isn't a good comparison

smurf still looks as good as ever

but I can never actually tell with super

[balmy wolf]

having a good system is needed for every player

void is pretty good example of this, was on glads when bischu got benched and was avg then went to dragons and was able to become a top 3 OT in one season

[tawdry hamlet]

I think, but dpei influence

Hmm

Since a lot of players peaked after their glads time

[willow tartan]

highest damage per 10 in the league on sigma

[tawdry hamlet]

Hmm actually, Decay is really the only one

[tacit skiff]

too bad sig banned

[gusty rampart]

Literally more hyped than I am for grand finals

[tacit skiff]

has it been confirmed if oge is playing or not

[gusty rampart]

I think so

He's been streaming Overwatch and is back from Korea

[barren quest]

Toilet Bowl 2021 is going to be hype

[gusty rampart]

He's back with the Mayhem because he's posted pictures with Slime tagged in them

[barren quest]

Bren/Sideshow needs to be casting it too

[tacit skiff]

I wonder what Checkmate will do when oge comes back

probably go back to fdps

or whatever he did

[gusty rampart]

Hopefully

[tacit skiff]

wdym hopefully

checkmate was a god on tank

[gusty rampart]

He wasn't really good

[tacit skiff]

remember when they brought Dallas to a fifth map

[gusty rampart]

He got a little too creative

[tacit skiff]

creative is what the league needs

it's the same comps every game

[gusty rampart]

Feeding is not what the Mayhem needs

[tacit skiff]

let checkmate diff

[tawdry hamlet]

Plat Rein Strats are a major weakness to Dallas, which is why it surprised me that Atlanta has never beat them

[devout path]

HA

[tawdry hamlet]

I am kidding though it is shocking how well the checkmate rein surprised Dallas lmao

[tacit skiff]

Atlanta can always seem to do well outside tournaments but never live up to expectations when played against the big big boys

[gusty rampart]

Atlanta has gotten so close so many times

Every match of theirs is a 2-3

[willow tartan]

https://youtu.be/Lx9ZrXCLW_M?t=305

[tawdry hamlet]

That's what's funny he played like shit that series

They just somehow won lmaoo

[tacit skiff]

chadmate's greatest game

[tawdry hamlet]

Lijang was his peak

[gusty rampart]

I don't think he's a permanent solution

[tacit skiff]

won more maps against Dallas than Boston

[devout path]

Checkmate is bumper reincarnated

[gusty rampart]

A rookie DPS on Main Tank

[devout path]

And bumper is the only player to ever get into supers head

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah it's just memes everyone knows that checkmate isn't the perm good solution I'd hope

[devout path]

So checkmate is the counter to the shock

[tacit skiff]

I honestly feel bad for Checkmate, I doubt this was the league debut he wanted

Checkmate > Super anyday

[gusty rampart]

No.

No

No

[tacit skiff]

Yes.

[gusty rampart]

Typical Boston fan

[tacit skiff]

kekw

[tawdry hamlet]

Florida's options when picking a main tank : Hmm Roar or Oge. How do we pick between mediocre and mediocre

[tacit skiff]

Can't even accept the reality of Checkmate's greatness

[gusty rampart]

OGE got the job done tho

[barren quest]

Pick up Bumper

[tawdry hamlet]

They really only had oge pokpo or roar as options at that point

[devout path]

Bumper

The rein one trick Florida needs

[tacit skiff]

They have Bumper 2

Checkmate

[tawdry hamlet]

I wish cloudys owl time was better

[tacit skiff]

Bumper would make such a good mentor to Checkmate

Turning Bumper into a coach

[devout path]

Bumper coach??

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

[tacit skiff]

yeah and checkmate Rein was also the dumbest thing I've ever heard

but

[devout path]

No where near as dumb

[tacit skiff]

he did well
I'm proud of their almost victory against #1 na seed

[gusty rampart]

Even before that they 2-3d Fuel

[supple prism]

The talent is practicing for the talent takedown and Brens team has just been running over Sideshows team

[willow tartan]

sideshow has been on two owl teams

[next mesa]

Lmaoo

[tawdry hamlet]

Sideshow the play by play goat

[balmy wolf]

I’m tryna find a group to start watching overwatch league games with live 👀

[frosty shell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MfCNVQCjYY&ab_channel=OverwatchLeague

LAST cup of the year for owl

until world cup pog

WAIT its been happening for 2 days fuck

i missed some

[supple prism]

and its been upside down

[forest raven]

https://twitter.com/hangzhou_spark/status/1422437244158177281?s=21

Hangzhou Spark (@Hangzhou_Spark)

Out of an abundance of caution due to the escalating COVID-19 situation, we are saddened to announce the cancellation of the Hangzhou Spark August 13-15 Homestand.

All ticket purchases will be refunded in a week.

Thank you for your understanding.

#SparkIt

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 6:00 AM

[devout path]

Sad

[balmy wolf]

no sad be happy

[forest raven]

I don't wanna be happy

He's on the outluls

Puke

[balmy wolf]

i force u

no escape

[forest raven]

Anyway

super's doing an ultra-nightmare run on doom 2016 and everytime he dies he's gifting 15 subs

[willow tartan]

guangzhou homestand in june joust

[forest raven]

[stuck radish]

mans gonna go broke

[forest raven]

I think he's died three times already

[sullen berry]

Spark, my spiritual successor to the Guangzhou Countdown Cup homestand

[mortal abyss]

No more t mobile sponsor?

https://charlieintel.com/t-mobile-reportedly-no-longer-a-sponsor-of-call-of-duty-league-overwatch-league/118959/

[willow tartan]

no more platchat presented to you by t mobile

[mortal abyss]

Nah I think platchat is still sponsored

[sullen berry]

T Mobile was no longer visible on NYSL jerseys

But then again, I wouldn't want a branded jersey especially in black and shoddy yellow patching

[willow tartan]

nyxl?

what ris sl

[sullen berry]

Just read the article man

Well he had enough fans that are missing out on a one month sub

[willow tartan]

o

its a cod team

didnt know those existed

[plush grail]

plat chat be like

[halcyon surge]

manscaped

[willow tartan]

man owl is so shit, inspires me to play heroes and then get rolled in comp

[tawdry hamlet]

I suffer from if streamer man can do it so can I syndrome

[plush grail]

u suffer from dumb

[willow tartan]

i suffer from watch leave play and thinking i can style on people too

[uncut prairie]

i suffer from suffering from this chat

[sullen berry]

!!join

[young fractal]

🟤🔑 #kiwiswantakiwi kenobi joined the chat.

[raw ermine]

https://twitter.com/Hangzhou_Spark/status/1422437244158177281

Hangzhou Spark (@Hangzhou_Spark)

Out of an abundance of caution due to the escalating COVID-19 situation, we are saddened to announce the cancellation of the Hangzhou Spark August 13-15 Homestand.

All ticket purchases will be refunded in a week.

Thank you for your understanding.

#SparkIt

Likes

188

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 6:00 AM

Happened again lol

Oh you posted it already

[noble nexus]

😔

[north relic]

This is so sad

[mortal abyss]

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1422531662995464239

Jason Schreier (@jasonschreier)

BREAKING: Blizzard president J. Allen Brack is leaving the company, Activision Blizzard just told staff. Jen Oneal and Mike Ybarra will take over as "co-leaders of Blizzard."

Filed to Bloomberg Terminal, story will be live shortly

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 12:15 PM

[north relic]

Wonder if this affects ow 2

[mortal abyss]

Lol everything that’s been going on has definitely affected ow2

Apparently these 2 ppl taking over are from activison

So take that as you will

Ok so jen was the head of vicarious visions for 7 years

[raw ermine]

oh no ans

[mortal abyss]

And ybarra worked at Xbox gamepass/Xbox live for a while

[north relic]

Yea it’s so sad to see this happening to him

[sullen berry]

puts this video in a different light now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv-h11icuIU&t=4003s

4Heads but esports at the centre of their conversation

I'll also preface for Luigi especially that there is a lot of naughty language

[sullen berry]

https://twitter.com/Spex_J/status/1422545869904154626

Jon Spector (@Spex_J)

Jen and Mike (and all the rest of us) have a lot of work to do to rebuild a better Blizzard. I hope they move with urgency. https://t.co/d08UXX0GVR

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 1:12 PM

[rigid thorn]

can anyone explain whats going on with Valiant?, their record is 0-12?

i've noticed that especially during the NYXL vs. Valiant match.

[forest raven]

Where have you been all season

[rigid thorn]

away my good sir

[raw ermine]

LAV dropped there roster a few weeks before the season

and then picked up a bunch of terrible Chinese players, a few of which are offrolling

[rigid thorn]

i went to check their previous matches from this year and almost had a stroke

[raw ermine]

all in the name of saving money

cause the parent team wants to leave esports

now everyone hates the org and they are terrible

[gusty rampart]

Any Contenders matches that aren't at ungodly hours this month?

[plush grail]

imagine watching contendies

LMAO

[gusty rampart]

I need the skins

[earnest leaf]

Maybe a good thing then

Gamepass is a pretty good thing that was made

[raw ermine]

:(

[next mesa]

hey guys new pfp new me

[raw ermine]

one less anime girl pfp in this chat

[noble nexus]

good

[next mesa]

dont insult mai san

its just that snorlax is my spirit animal

[plush grail]

who's this new levy guy

[next mesa]

its god hismelf

[noble nexus]

handsome

🥵

[raw ermine]

forget cowboy sans

we got snorlax sans

[next mesa]

i am so sexy

[raw ermine]

wait

cowboy snorlax*

[little tusk]

https://youtu.be/Ji3Ju6VZwQk?t=381

flora kinda cracked gawddamn

[balmy wolf]

Hello

[hot onyx]

Snorlax Sans

Has a nice ring to it

Brb

[balmy wolf]

sans sucks

[hot onyx]

I’m back

[balmy wolf]

thats nice af

[hot onyx]

Something you don’t have in common then

[balmy wolf]

cant play me

[hot onyx]

Yes I can

[balmy wolf]

ez

[hot onyx]

Pz

How tf did you edit the image

Witch

[balmy wolf]

get rolled loser

[hot onyx]

Remind me whose team beat the Dragons

[balmy wolf]

the one that lost to nxyl twice?

and dropped a map to valiant

[hot onyx]

NYXL > Valiant > Fusion >>>>> Dragons >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone >> Reign

[ivory stag]

yall smell

[balmy wolf]

fusion fan copium reached its maximum

[hot onyx]

Atlanta can’t even beat a washed up team with 2 opportunities and Fusion beat them 3-0

Fusion

[balmy wolf]

atlanta can make hawaii tho

[hot onyx]

A team that regularly fields Alarm beat a bottom 5 team before Ratlanta

[balmy wolf]

fusion cant

[hot onyx]

Yeah but Fusion smell

Masaa wears deodorant

[sand cloak]

when are dallas gonna put out pine

[hot onyx]

When he gets past visa hell and when a hitscan meta is mandatory

[little tusk]

guys did u hear pine will be in dallas omg!!

[next mesa]

yeahhhhhh

plz play him lowkey need his cree

[little tusk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWBtMQ3lIAo

[earnest leaf]

https://twitter.com/CDHuntersFacts/status/1422668028274167810

Chengdu Hunters Facts (@CDHuntersFacts)

Stream clip:

Jimmy purposely shouts "I have EMP" and tricks Farway, who's in the same room, into using Transcendence. https://t.co/hpu8R8jUpu

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 9:17 PM

[tacit skiff]

why did the league stop doing 40 matches per team in the regular season anyway

[shadow dagger]

https://twitter.com/seanzcollins/status/1422580430885294082?s=20

Sean Collins (@seanzcollins)

I’m told Pine’s visa is approved. He should arrive in DFW late next week or early in the following week. https://t.co/8BbaDeo56d

Likes

463

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 3:29 PM

[devout path]

Pine plays CC final 4?

[shadow dagger]

maybe

[balmy wolf]

Because it was way to fucking long

[raw ermine]

vomits

[mortal abyss]

Nah he’s right smh

[next mesa]

comedy

40 games is way too much

id say ~25 is the sweet spot

[hot onyx]

Wtf Kabaji tracer isn’t that bad

[north relic]

Profit bottom 3 dps

[tropic herald]

[noble nexus]

ibm has never not sucked dallas off

lol

[willow tartan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/745768601671303231/872268814824398868/354076d2f7fa4b1a806857303f5cc19a.png

😎

[north relic]

ibm sucking shd off lip not even good

[tepid ibex]

[gusty rampart]

Lip is good

What are you on

[next mesa]

Lip tracer mechanics so cracked

lowkey better than fleta

[noble nexus]

Lip garbage

[vagrant cargo]

kabaji>profit

L

[devout path]

I swear dallas is paying ibm to be biased

[next mesa]

no

[willow tartan]

a lip/lip dps lineup would be top 4 in the league

[noble nexus]

IBM is on sp9rk1e’s payroll ong

[vagrant cargo]

yes.

[next mesa]

tell me what u smokin

[noble nexus]

Smokin that profit pack if he ever has to face the kabaji tracer

[vagrant cargo]

real

kabaji was rank 1

profit wasnt

case closed

🤷‍♂️

[noble nexus]

Yeah ranked means a lot

[vagrant cargo]

yes

thats also why kephrii>carpe

also crosyph 360 headshotted me once so hes bvetter too by default

[raw ermine]

ok mods mute him

[noble nexus]

Yeah no I can’t even go along with this shit anymore

Kephrii sucks

[willow tartan]

i got my overwatch league tokens finally

better late than never

[tacit skiff]

^ frfr

[tawdry hamlet]

fr this is why colourhex aka sunflower is the greatest dps in the world

he has been rank 1 so many times ez

[tacit skiff]

Chex mvp

[vagrant cargo]

So true

[vagrant cargo]

Mad because im right

sad!

[tacit skiff]

who cares

[willow tartan]

yeah when was the last time carpe got rank 1

[stuck radish]

samito got rank 1 at some point

samito > carpe

[willow tartan]

didnt viol2t once hit 4.8k

[noble nexus]

nah he hit 6k

built different idk

[next mesa]

That pharah guy that hit 5k

How is he not in owl

[stuck radish]

it would be unfair

legend says he was put on london spitfire for one game and they became the best team in the league so he had to be fired

[next mesa]

They scrummed against shock right after they won the chip

And striker got boomed so hard

He was thinking of retiring

So ig now we know the reason

[willow tartan]

cuz console

[devout path]

On ps4

[tacit skiff]

it can't be that hard to play pharah on console vs pc

just like junk

[devout path]

I mean

Yznsa is now a contenders player

And has like 7 accs in the top 10 every season in Europe

[tacit skiff]

can't wait to see what Fran's contenders team looks like

[willow tartan]

no i mean

getting 5k cause its console leaderboard

less players = ezer games = more sr grind

[gusty rampart]

I think Fran could make Overwatch League

Same with Yznsa

Yznsa would probably make Spitfire or Eternal

Fran maybe Shock/Reign

[willow tartan]

what is fran player?

flex support?

[gusty rampart]

Ye

[willow tartan]

wya would dunk on her ez

[gusty rampart]

Bap/Zen/Ana

[willow tartan]

yznsa is a 1trick i thought

like falcon subs out yznsa if they arent gonna run 100% pharah

[gusty rampart]

I've seen him on stream play like Tracer recently

[tacit skiff]

yznsa is a pharah echo player

compare him to like valentine

[willow tartan]

ehh

is his tracer workable on an OWL level?

that's p crucial

I also imagine since he's arabic, he'd be hard pressed to find a team that will sign him between the korean rosters and the english-speaking mixed rosters.

[gusty rampart]

He can speak English I believe

[tacit skiff]

yeah he can speak english

[willow tartan]

i thought his english was like v bad

[gusty rampart]

He plays on EU servers

[tacit skiff]

rough English tho

[gusty rampart]

But look at like a lot of mixed rosters

Their English is rough

[willow tartan]

and mixed rosters dont tend to do as well

full korean > mixed rosters

[gusty rampart]

Shock and Reign

[willow tartan]

atlanta has a mixed roster?

[gusty rampart]

Kai, Gator, Hawk

Are all American

[willow tartan]

which one of their korean players isnt fluent in english?

pelican?

[gusty rampart]

Still a mixed roster, also I don't know I don't watch their streams

[earnest leaf]

Pelican like most of the korean players can speak broken english

Really only the Korean players that are on mixed rosters for a few years have actually pretty good english

Like a lot of the shock ones

[gusty rampart]

Yeah Smurf's English is pretty good

He can speak English on stream

[earnest leaf]

From what has been said, Choi apparently has the best english among them

[tacit skiff]

Choi has better English than most Americans

let's be honest

[willow tartan]

im37 best english

[tawdry hamlet]

yznsa is not really owl worthy imo, no matter how good his echo or pharah are having to build the entire team comp around that defeats the purpose. Every team yznsa has been on the comp has been built around him and for him to succeed, I don't think in owl you can really build your comp around one key player going off unless that player is a top level monster which yzn mechanically might be but idk

seems like if you put a10 in owl, he could only really actually do so much

like take the best pharah in all of owl, build a comp around solely that player, and often times you lose unless your pharah is a monster like fleta

even naga who is arguably one of the best pharahs in the whole league got defeated by boston when the comp was figured out

[forest raven]

nero just swapped off pharah when boston put too much pressure on him

[tawdry hamlet]

Exactly

Which yznsa can't do unless he goes echo

Which doesn't really help

[willow tartan]

inb4 echo/pharah gets banned for an entire stage

i mean he could be a specialist player

sort of how diem was. in case there ever was a super hard sniper meta

[earnest leaf]

one trick specialist players are just a hard waste now

You see some of the ones that stay have become more flexible

[willow tartan]

yeah

sparkle picked up a few heroes

[earnest leaf]

mf went from being a genji/doom two trick

To a very strong flex player

[hollow bough]

sparkle should get back on dㅐㅐㅡ랴ㅏㄴ

oops

doomfist lol

[willow tartan]

early in on the season i really disliked how the fuel couldnt decide their roles

it felt like sparkle and doha were swapping heroes every map

mfw both of them play echo and both of them duplicate moira

[earnest leaf]

Another one trick that got better was super

Now if he just works on his monkey

then he is good to go

but smurf op

Fearless is also showing he isn't a monkey otp

Mag is also in the process of not being a monkey one trick

[willow tartan]

yeah there arent as many 1 tricks in the league anymore huh

[earnest leaf]

Yea most players can play 2-3 heroes pretty effectively

Maybe Ameng I guess is still a one trick?

[forest raven]

super has omega poggers rein, a great orisa, and now has a good ball

Smurf is still a top 2 winston tho lole

[tawdry hamlet]

I like one tricks because their ceiling over non one tricks on their hero is amazing to watch but with how the season length is and the diversity in play they aren't feasible anymore

[willow tartan]

yeah

if they played more matches i could see them becoming more viable

[tawdry hamlet]

Like you can't tell me watching shadowburn or shadder2k tear it up on genji wasn't really dope to watch even if they were useless off genji

[earnest leaf]

Makes me really hope they add more games next season

[willow tartan]

^^^

[earnest leaf]

Maybe 4 weeks of qualifer matches, and 6 games were stage

[willow tartan]

i need more overwatch

make the szn longer

play 6 matches a stage idk

[tawdry hamlet]

I want more games because how tf am I supposed to watch people like agilities play when there's only one or two maps they'd be willing to risk playing him sort of thing

[willow tartan]

how many games were played last year?

[tawdry hamlet]

Ksf 😭

Ksf is like budget eqo Lowkey

[forest raven]

28 I think

21

[tawdry hamlet]

But I think mei is the only relevant hero in his pool this year and Danteh just better at mei echo tracer

[forest raven]

Because of covid

Season 1 was 40

Season 2 was 28

Season 3 21 because of covid

Season 4 16 also because of covid

[willow tartan]

by season 6 we will have 2 games a year

[tawdry hamlet]

So why does hz have so many supports who everyone shills as better than the Korean ones but they never play

[forest raven]

Because it's spark

Spark fuckin sucks dick

[tawdry hamlet]

Like who are they though I mean

Coldest Mika right

[hollow bough]

40 games for s1???

omg

[forest raven]

Coldest Mika yeah

[hollow bough]

I wouldn't have time to watch all of those games

were there games every month?

[earnest leaf]

It did help everyone was in La

at the blizzard arena

[tawdry hamlet]

So idk and mcd bench them all season but all I ever heard was praise about them rip

[forest raven]

https://i.imgur.com/YpKOm6k.png

Wait fuck

My images don't embed

@hollow bough

[willow tartan]

other sports seasons are way longer man

actually rigged

[tawdry hamlet]

Ideal off season could have been Chengdu fill in Elsa hole with lige and hz filled up support line with Nisha mmonk or Nisha farway or Nisha aztac

[willow tartan]

we're getting scammed out of overwatch by blizzard

[tawdry hamlet]

I think the most tragic support line of the year so far has been Toronto tbh

So much potential there

[hollow bough]

I wish I got into overwatch sooner but I didn't have the PC to run it and I was in the TF2 esports scene when it used to be "big"

[tawdry hamlet]

And yet they get outperformed by Crimzo Joobi Jake easily

[forest raven]

Season 1 was wild

[willow tartan]

presenting to you: philadelphia fusion

that team is a dead corpse

[forest raven]

Season 1 was 3 games a day, 5 days a week, always a 4 map series

Or 5 maps

[tawdry hamlet]

Mmm, eh I'd agree as an overall team but mechanically Tobi and alarm and astro look as good as ever whereas Lastro regressed hard and Ansoonjae is just meh and aztac got put in as an off tank lmaoo

[hollow bough]

that sounds so fun

[willow tartan]

no wonder the players got burnt out

[tawdry hamlet]

As a team philly sucks yeah, but Tobi and Alarm are both playing some of their best overwatch mechanically. Just sucks the team isn't there

[willow tartan]

tfw "guys its just playing 3 games of overwatch lol itll be fine"

[tawdry hamlet]

To like win

[willow tartan]

clearly the OWL guys have never played 3 games in ranked

that shit can be tilting

[hollow bough]

I can definitely see burnout happening

for playing games 5 days a week

[willow tartan]

but it really elevated the level of play in matches since teams can prepare far better for matchups

which i like

[tawdry hamlet]

Think any western based team will attempt a Chinese based asian roster instead of Korean based?

That'd be interesting

[willow tartan]

not enough chinese talent

[hollow bough]

Plus, APAC and NA can compete far easier, so you don't have a divide in meta

[willow tartan]

all the chinese talent gets sucked up by APAC teams

when was the last time a cn player was on a western team

[tawdry hamlet]

I'm not sure and I think charge were the only ones to do the opposite with Nero neptuno and that other guy uhhh

Shit

[hollow bough]

this is the blizzard arena now

[tawdry hamlet]

Ah yeah kyb

The British dude who was on charge

[willow tartan]

why they make it so small

where is the 10,000 seats

[forest raven]

https://i.imgur.com/n5PPW0g.png

Bren circa 2018

[tawdry hamlet]

Ok but even if he didn't have visa issues you're telling me gz thought that neptuno would somehow work better than Chara language barriers and everything aside there's just no way, because even with Nero in so they do like split English no way a Spaniard with hella accent is going to come in and play one of the biggest shot call roles

[hollow bough]

There's more behind the camera

That's just where the stage was

[willow tartan]

He looks more mentally stable.

[forest raven]

Bren was I think 21 or 22 in 2018

[hollow bough]

You can see the extra seats they put in on the floor space

[tawdry hamlet]

Oh yeah gz also had fragi, they tried the western player thing more than I remember

[forest raven]

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/nu/NUT6XY3VKONU1549997840354.jpg

[hollow bough]

extra pic

LOL

[forest raven]

Rolled

[tawdry hamlet]

Just saying if you told me fragi was a former pro wow player before overwatch id 100 percent believe you

[forest raven]

Any Ninjas In Pyjamas fans

[hollow bough]

for csgo?

[tawdry hamlet]

Da Finnish roster

They had a pre owl roster

[forest raven]

For overwatch

https://i.imgur.com/xNCtrrM.png

Finnish death squad

[hollow bough]

I went down the rabbit hole

rest in pyjamas, gigantti

[forest raven]

Gigantti

Davin never got to OWL

[hollow bough]

so many OW teams i've never heard of because I'm so new

[forest raven]

God I miss pre-OWL teams

[tawdry hamlet]

Snillo the goat

🐐

[forest raven]

Hymzi

God-king of roadhog

[hollow bough]

Samsung had a team???

[tawdry hamlet]

Yes a successful one

Many people came from the morning stars team

[forest raven]

Asking, Dridro, Kai, Leaf, Hqrdest

[tawdry hamlet]

Prov1de

[forest raven]

Dnce

[hollow bough]

https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/Spackle_academy

im going down the rabbit hole

this was a team?

[tawdry hamlet]

Their french duo was on one of the world cups

When contenders teams are orgless they just do meme logos until they're picked up

They usually make a roster and wait for an org to grab them

Hence why spackle became ardour

[forest raven]

I miss Movistar

[tawdry hamlet]

Also why older teams have hella weird names

[willow tartan]

wait they're the same fragi?

[forest raven]

Yes

NiP ran goats in 2017

[willow tartan]

He retired on the 20th of October 2020, to return to World of Warcraft, joining the Echo guild.
Liquipedia

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah lol I meant like based on his appearance if I had to guess his pro game, something in my head just screams tank on world of warcraft

[willow tartan]

he was noted to be part of a top wow guilld prior to joining owl

[tawdry hamlet]

Probably all the hair

[willow tartan]

nordic genes

[tawdry hamlet]

Indeed

Hadi also screams wow tank player lmaoo

Is the beard I 🤔

[willow tartan]

really?

he looks more like a cs player to me

[tawdry hamlet]

Something about viking looking dudes and world of warcraft connects in my head and makes me think that lmaoo

Ah figured it out, it's the beard on the dwarf in classic wow that keeps bringing me back lmao

[willow tartan]

if only every wow player looked like their in game character

[tawdry hamlet]

If only

There would be more sexy beards to look at

Ez

[hollow bough]

Damn, I just saw the homestand game in Hangzhou got cancelled. that's sad

[willow tartan]

yeppers

thanks covid

[hollow bough]

2 covid cases and then the entire city goes into lockdown

[willow tartan]

well yeah

i wouldnt fuck around with it myself

get that shit out of here so we can return to normal sooner

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah especially in a place as densely populated as big cities in china where one case can turn into a hundred in a day

[willow tartan]

hangzhou has like 10 million people

[forest raven]

https://twitter.com/D4veTheNinja/status/1421779971882762241

SMC | Dave (@D4veTheNinja)

🎶 Welcome to Contenders 🎶 https://t.co/S1iiEMSZgc

Likes

243

Twitter · Aug 1, 2021, 10:28 AM

[tawdry hamlet]

[forest raven]

Is jjonak the only player to never be benched

[willow tartan]

no

[forest raven]

Who else has never been benched

[willow tartan]

silver3

[forest raven]

I asked the wrong question

Is jjonak the only player who has played every single game for their team

[willow tartan]

uhh

lets think hard on that one

has jjonak ever been benched

[forest raven]

No

[willow tartan]

no?

like you checked?

[forest raven]

Jjonak has never been benched

He has played on every single map for the New York Excelsior since the team's inception, having never been subbed out for strategic or medical reasons, and is technically the only Flex Support player the organisation has ever signed.

[willow tartan]

oh so you mean like only players that have been around since the start of the league?

[forest raven]

Yeah

[willow tartan]

well if you count expansion teams i would say

idk

like i would have to check

man thats a hard question

[forest raven]

Has masaa ever been benched?

[willow tartan]

masaa doesnt count though

wait

has he been subbed?

[forest raven]

Oh no

[willow tartan]

my brain says yes

[forest raven]

Masaa doesn't count

Reign had Astro in the very beginning

[willow tartan]

yeah idk must be it

or at least idk has come the closest because i dont remember m1ka or coldest palying

[forest raven]

idk might be in the running

[mortal abyss]

Masaa has been benched like one map for astro in 2019

Carpe comes close to having played every map but he got becnched towards the latter end of 2020

[forest raven]

Has Eileen ever been subbed out

[mortal abyss]

Uh

Maybe when nero was playing

Idk

[tawdry hamlet]

I think he's the only one map wise since he's played every single map

But series wise there might be another but I'm not sure

First we have to find players who've been on the same team since nyxl was founded

Gator? Idk

Ah no pokpo existed

That's nutty though the mental strength to go through like hundreds of owl maps

[forest raven]

Oh I'm sure there's at least a couple players that have played in every series

[tawdry hamlet]

Doha played a shit ton at one point

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/kjl3ba/is_jjonak_the_only_player_that_has_played_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[forest raven]

Not Atlanta, Boston, Chengdu, Dallas, Florida, Houston, London, Glads, Valiant, Paris, Shock, Seoul, Shanghai, Toronto, Vancouver, or Washington

[tawdry hamlet]

Rio has except for one single map he was benched for fragi

[forest raven]

Only NYXL, Charge, and Philly

Oh and idk in Spark potentially

[earnest leaf]

Choi has been subbed out a few times, but has perma started since s2

[tawdry hamlet]

Guxue hmm

Meko maybe

[forest raven]

Not meko

He's not even in the league anymore

[tawdry hamlet]

I mean just like streak of maps wise I guess. I am aware he wouldn't be nearly as many maps as jjonak.

Idk if there's anyone

[forest raven]

I think jjonak is the only player to play every map for a team

But potentially IDK on spark, Rio on charge, and potentially Carpe has played every series

[tawdry hamlet]

I think Rio comes the closest on like just streak of maps in a row but carpe has surely played a lot of maps

According to owl stat site Choi is up there

[feral zodiac]

Hasn't fate

[forest raven]

Since the team's inception I meant

[feral zodiac]

Since shanghai straight up don't have a second main tank

Oh

Yeah probs

[tropic herald]

M1ka, Fragi, Heesu

[forest raven]

What

[tropic herald]

Those three players made it so those 3 can’t be true

[forest raven]

Huh

[tropic herald]

You said those 3 potentially played every map for their team, I listed which players subbed them out

[forest raven]

Series, not map

dk about IDK or Carpe on that either tho

[tropic herald]

Ok Rio I’m pretty sure is true

But I’m like 99% sure Carpe and IDK aren’t

[forest raven]

Yeah probs

[willow tartan]

carpe got subbed out recently lol

eqo/rascal

[forest raven]

Again, not every map, every series

[hot onyx]

Carpe was benched for Heesu in the 2020 Countdown Cup finals and the playoffs match vs Seoul

[forest raven]

Interesting

[raw ermine]

Jihun is on charge

but yeah I am confident jjonak STILL has played every map

yeah jjonak has played the most time in OWL

[forest raven]

What a chad

[little tusk]

maybe he should take a break

[gusty rampart]

He might

And that makes me cry

[hot onyx]

“The New York Excelsior announce the retirement of flex support JJonak”

[willow tartan]

nyxl without jjonak is like fusion without carpe

weird

[gusty rampart]

I don't think he'll ever switch teams. He'll just retire

[hot onyx]

A better team

[gusty rampart]

When JJonak leaves, the NYXL dies

[gusty rampart]

Nopers

[willow tartan]

NYXL should just pull out of overwatch league when jjonak retires

give up the spot, give up the franchise

close shop

we're done boys

[hot onyx]

Should’ve done that when they decided to release SBB Libero Mano and Anamo

And thought “yeah, these coaches that stripped a potentially top tier team of their talent are worth keeping”

How tf do you have Haksal on your team during a genji meta and not even make the finals?

[mortal abyss]

imt moment

[worn falcon]

nyxl just should swap coaches like Spark does.

[trail perch]

GOATS he was subbed for SBB

[gusty rampart]

Actually true

Haksal ❤️

He's playing League professionally now :)

https://twitter.com/haloofthoughts/status/1422659614638845962?s=19

Arran “Halo” Spake (@haloofthoughts)

"As for JJonak, I think he’s leading us well as the veteran of the team and is leading by example. I think I can rely on him in and out of the game, and also both in scrims and in official matches."

https://t.co/fUyFnSmwaq

Likes

204

Twitter · Aug 3, 2021, 8:44 PM

Interview with Flora

[earnest leaf]

https://twitter.com/TalonKorea/status/1422845992638898182

TALON KOREA (@TalonKorea)

오버워치팀의 @Perfact_ow 선수가 저희 팀과 상호 합의 하에 계약을 종료하게 되었습니다.
비록 짧은 시간 동안 함께 했지만 저희는 Perfact 선수의 행보를 계속해서 응원할 것입니다🙌🏻

#SOARWITHTALON #OW #GOODBYE

Twitter · Aug 4, 2021, 9:04 AM

maybe owl soon

[worn falcon]

next season maybe, if actiblizz get monies from sponsors

since no more t-mobile

[raw ermine]

actbliz doesn't sign playes bro

the teams do

[worn falcon]

no, i mean if OWL exist nexrt year, thats on actiblizz

[gusty rampart]

That's not good

Like really really not good

That makes me sad that T-Mobile dropped them

[willow tartan]

Owl will exist next year.

No way OW2 without OW2L

[tacit skiff]

Everything's uncertain with Activision Blizzard

[noble nexus]

The shock are signing more assisted coaches finally

[next mesa]

omg when

who?

https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/ByZenith

who?????

[raw ermine]

byzenith?? really? Him?

good for him I guess

[north relic]

he has been in a lot of teams

[noble nexus]

Atleast the shock have more than one assistant coach now

[plush grail]

A assistant coach is not gonna save this shit year lmao

[noble nexus]

It’s a start

[gusty rampart]

Shock can make a comeback

[twin bloom]

2nd place in NA overall isn't shit lmao

Shock is a good team

Just not championship level

[noble nexus]

Coming into this season as the back to back champs with the roster they have and not qualifying for any tourney is absolutely a shit year for them

[willow drum]

It's not a shit year

for any other team

but for championship teams like Shock

it is pretty bad

but ByZenith was good.

Coached Drifters when tehy were good

and was the main coach of Goats too

Very nice pickup

Underrated I feel

[noble nexus]

Yeah he’s been on a few decent teams from what I saw when I was looking into him

Probably decent for them

Plus I’ve been saying from the start that they need to fill their coaching gaps again so it’s a step in the right direction at the least imo

[noble hare]

@twin bloom hello

[willow drum]

Yeah real nice teams honestly

[twin bloom]

Hello

[willow drum]

Maybe Shock still have 0 chance this year but

[noble hare]

😪 😪

[twin bloom]

😭 😭

[noble hare]

hows it going baazo

[twin bloom]

Who?

[noble hare]

*kungarna mykl fan

[twin bloom]

Good

[noble hare]

😪

i havent talked to u in like

2 months

[twin bloom]

Sadness

[noble hare]

anyways i was right about dallas fucking this yr and justice shitting the bed

just 5head things

[robust marten]

I want to improve my Aim with Dps characters like Widow and Mcree is there any pro players you guys recommend i watch to help me

[willow drum]

All of them

All of them have insane mechanical skill

[robust marten]

like any specific widow or mcree players

[willow drum]

The main skill for widow is finding positions to hit the easy shots

and then hitting the easy shots themselves

Currently in this meta, not a lot of widowmaker or mccree are being played

I think Ans and Kai are the best choices

[next mesa]

Cree yes

[willow drum]

to watch

[next mesa]

Check out kai ans

[willow drum]

yeah

kai and ans

[next mesa]

Shit like gwangboong is kind of hard

For regular players

Just cracked out on cocaine

Kai and Ans are smart

U can try fits too

Widowmakers job is to get in a position to hit easy shots and then hit them

[balmy wolf]

widowmaker is nice,

[next mesa]

https://i.imgur.com/4Pvk2b1.png

guys im telling you

guys

guys

im so scared

guys what is shock gonna do

guys

?????????????????

oh god oh fuck

the three peat cannot be stopped

our only hope is silver3

[raw ermine]

ta1yo glister genji doom meta

[next mesa]

they're gonna pull out ta1yo in the playoffs and just

not drop a map

[willow drum]

confirmed

[fiery void]

yo

new friends anybody ?

[gusty rampart]

Ta1yo is really good

I'm surprised they haven't played him at all

[tawdry hamlet]

because he isn't good enough and with this short of a season sacrificing a record to develop a talent when the future is so uncertain is pointless if what they have can keep up this record

feel like it is a chengdu farway moment, like he is good enough to start but do they take the time to develop him or just put in mmonk who will be the same or better every time

on projectile nero is equal or better on every hero that isn't genji and on hitscan glister ans are better on any hero

and then nero also has sombra and so does ans

he just doesn't have a role, unless they bench a better player imo

[gusty rampart]

Fair

Nero is goated

I don't understand the hate he gets

Same with FDGod

[tawdry hamlet]

I think a lot of teams underestimated the hero diversity this year

They signed backups for a 16 game season that had like a 5 percent chance of being double projectile ever

Also seems like a ton of teams prepared for double flex support for no real reason

Basically

I see happening kind of like the NBA where positions are dying and it's just becoming front court and backcourt instead of 5 individual players. Like the dedicated projectile or hitscan role is dying. there are just flexes now aka projectile players who have a good tracer

Basically Hanzo tracer and Sombra have been swapping between flex dps and hitscan players all season

Even genji sometimes

Like in the NBA it used to be "we need a center on our roster" now it's "we have an all star forward he can just play that role now"

[earnest leaf]

Fdgod got hardcore caught up in the crossfire

He played mainly at a time when shock as a 6 man squad was fucking trolling

And even vets were struggling

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah that Atlanta series and the opening Houston series made him look less than ideal

Unfortunately

Mainly the Atlanta series

[barren quest]

Well nowadays both flex supports almost always get subbed in at the same time and take turns on who takes the MS role

[willow tartan]

the "roles" are just what heroes you are good at

just make sure that your roster can run most or all hero combinations

[tawdry hamlet]

I mean sub roles, since most flex players are good at a hitscan so the whole dedicated projectile role is getting way smaller

[willow tartan]

most flex players have good hitscans?

well i mean if you consider tracer a hitscan

[next mesa]

Taiyo is gonna play

[willow tartan]

which she is

but

[next mesa]

Just watch

[willow tartan]

ya know

[next mesa]

He will be the secret weapon

[tawdry hamlet]

Well in charges case McCree is a hitscan yeah

God that team is tragic

[tawdry hamlet]

I wonder if you took the best players in the world and off roles them a little how bad they'd be

[stuck radish]

put ans on genji

[tawdry hamlet]

Like imagine Fleta cree Lip Echo

Imagine Violet Lucio

[stuck radish]

ok i have an idea for that

you know that florida player checkmate?

put him on reinhardt against fearless

[tawdry hamlet]

Remember that pharah player, yeah put him on brig

[sullen berry]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugy7ahpT_3yB-Y8jgLR4AaABCQ

[forest raven]

YO

SHOCK EMBIGGENED THEIR COACHING STAFF

[sullen berry]

big if true

[willow tartan]

LIP tracer

[earnest leaf]

depends on what best players you take

[willow tartan]

danteh moira

[earnest leaf]

You know what I want to see

Leejaegon rein

[willow tartan]

you think he would do good?

[forest raven]

LJG rein would be a bigger chad than checkmate

[tawdry hamlet]

Comments saying dogman is dumb and biased towards Atlanta as if he wasn't on the team for two years and is friends with the current roster

Like no shit lmao

Who would've thought s former Atlanta player wants them to win

[balmy wolf]

he underrated them before the season xD

and ppl said he was overrating them cause bias

[tawdry hamlet]

Charge should be in the spot valiant are in, everyone should laugh at charge for being sponsored by an mlm and sucking but then la just had to do that thing

[willow tartan]

ehh

who cares what theyre sponsored by

like its money that goes to the players at the end of the day

[tawdry hamlet]

Oh yeah I don't care about that I just think it's funny to make fun of

[balmy wolf]

mayhem tho

[willow tartan]

is that trolling?

must be

[balmy wolf]

why?

[tawdry hamlet]

Be at least got Houston right

[willow tartan]

how can you rate toronto above dallas

[balmy wolf]

and london

[willow tartan]

like purely on rosters alone

actual trolling

[balmy wolf]

dallas had no hitscan

[willow tartan]

xzi?...

[tawdry hamlet]

Pre season show match they looked awful because ping Xzi had just left and other stuff so they got rolled

[willow tartan]

in the pre season

[tawdry hamlet]

So everyone rated them low suddenly

[balmy wolf]

ppl thought that might hurt them

[willow tartan]

xzi retired after the season started

like a day or something

[balmy wolf]

nope

[forest raven]

I think the majority of people put Dallas low in preseason rankings because it was Dallas

[tawdry hamlet]

Oh I remember they had no tracer And got rolled

Sparkle tracer looked bad at the time

[willow tartan]

and what about the fusion?

how do you rank fusion so low with how stacked their roster is

like i mean look at high the titans are placed

surely you cant tell me that isnt trolling

[tawdry hamlet]

Fusion is second to Shanghai

[balmy wolf]

fusion is second???

[tawdry hamlet]

It's separated by region

[willow tartan]

no

[balmy wolf]

this guy is beyond stupid

[willow tartan]

that says west & east

not west/east

[balmy wolf]

ur actually dumb

[tawdry hamlet]

Hmm

[willow tartan]

why would there be a tier break between dragons and london then

itd be a separate list

3head

[tawdry hamlet]

He didn't rate apac below the entirety of na lmaoo

[willow tartan]

very trolling

[balmy wolf]

hes really unintelligent

[willow tartan]

well of course he is

[balmy wolf]

im talking to u

[willow tartan]

imagine believing in roolf/fire backline

[forest raven]

Fire Roolf

[willow tartan]

fire roolf indeed

[tawdry hamlet]

Most underrated players in the league

Crimzo 🤔

Punk

Hmm who else

[willow tartan]

what do you consider underrated

like underplayed?

[balmy wolf]

underintelligent

[forest raven]

Like this chat

[tawdry hamlet]

I guess not praised enough for how good they actually are, like Crimzo is rated bottom flex supports when he's really not that bad at all

[willow tartan]

isnt that just cause bad team last year

[tawdry hamlet]

And punk is similar up until recently

[willow tartan]

punk was hyped up when he joined boston then did nothing much

but again, bad team syndrome

[tawdry hamlet]

Underrated can also be silent carry players

Hmm who is one of those

[willow tartan]

the silent carry of each team?

nero 😎

[tawdry hamlet]

Factual

[forest raven]

God nero is so hot

[tawdry hamlet]

Masaa has gotten good this year

[willow tartan]

yea

[tawdry hamlet]

He's more than a healbot now

Iris got really good

[willow tartan]

what about creative?

[forest raven]

I've never seen creative play poorly

But I've never seen creative swing his big dick around

[willow tartan]

i think he's just like

really stable above average

[tawdry hamlet]

I think bebe has been pretty underrated this season. He's been alright

Maybe closer if he stopped getting subbed for ttuba

Silent carry is piggy

[willow tartan]

some teams also dont have a silent carry

their silent carry is their not so silent carry

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah piggy mechanically is so good

He's always top of stat boards

[willow tartan]

like who would you say is the silent carry on fuel/dragons? i think the players are skilled enough in each individual role where there's no one consistent person that's hard carrying

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah I think so, I think maybe you could argue fate for Shanghai since ever since june he's been the best hall in the world

Yet having stars on other roles makes him not look as significant