im like half listening to ariana grande half listning to the strean
#esports-discussion
balmy wolf
we didnt play the same game ig
mortal abyss
the game's already in a great state, we have a really diverse meta, i dont mind that being shaken up by the new heroes and maps but just deleting a tank role doesnt work with me
trail perch
they are focusing on changing the game waaaay too much when the mechanics worked just fine
plush grail
blizzard still punishing us for the goats with 3 tanks meta
trail perch
They didnt need to change the entire format just to slap a new shiny title of ow2 on it
balmy wolf
the game's already in a great state, we have a really diverse meta, i dont mind ...
fortnite was in a good state
digital cloud
We did nothing wrong
balmy wolf
they changed smthing
trail perch
they ruined what we fell in love with
balmy wolf
and it became THE game
digital cloud
Sure tanks are strong but you can’t fucking play without two tanks
trail perch
and I honestly hate it
they ruined the entire idea of a "meta"
No double shield
Rush
plush grail
if the tank dies on a team it just becomes a deathmatch brawl
digital cloud
How does hog even work
trail perch
Brawl
balmy wolf
idk what you guys are on
trail perch
Halt hook
digital cloud
Ana zen just deletes the fuck out of hog
mortal abyss
and it became THE game
fortnite is also a completely different genre of game to ow but ok
digital cloud
What stops snipers?
balmy wolf
fortnite is also a completely different genre of game to ow but ok
ow is unique for sure
still aplies the same logic
mortal abyss
also what did fortnite even change? chapter 2 ?
mortal abyss
but people werent bored of fortnite or overwatch
mortal abyss
Twitter
balmy wolf
i mean
teams also have 4 dps players
why not 2 tanks
for the
they wont lose their job
they just will play less
ivory mason
They wont but they will be offered way worse contract
Both tanks will be offered less money contracts because basically you either are gonna share 50/50 time or one is just gonna sit
ivory mason
And even in that alot ot tanks players will just increase their heroes and limit the other one on bench
balmy wolf
theyll prob get even more money
tawdry hamlet
One tank means we can have super play over two better players instead of one hehe
ivory mason
More money makes sense if we get more franchises
tawdry hamlet
Benching Smurf, nah, benching Smurf and Choi? Letsfuckinggoooo
cedar oasis
lets just remove tanks altogether
digital cloud
Might as well
Holy fuck nobody loves us tank players
Please hurt us more daddy blizzard
We deserve it for wanting the same standards as everyone else
digital cloud
No we don’t
balmy wolf
easier to carry on tank
digital cloud
We know how ow works
balmy wolf
ofc
balmy wolf
????
echo quest
balmy wolf
bro wtf are you talking about
umbral sapphire
lmao
cedar oasis
if there is only 1 tank then rienheart would actualy just die
balmy wolf
you know that alll tanks will get buffed
umbral sapphire
is it confirmed to be 5v5?
mortal abyss
tank synergy was one of my favourite parts of ow
balmy wolf
they said that already
mortal abyss
like
digital cloud
Yes it is confirmed
mortal abyss
no more double bubble
mortal abyss
no more aggro rush
balmy wolf
new metas
umbral sapphire
why are the devs so dead set on ruining the game
untold wraith
god i hope super opens up a can of whoop ass
umbral sapphire
lmao when is super playing
mortal abyss
bro its just going to be ball fighting 2 snipers all the time
umbral sapphire
doesnt this mean that if you get a bad tank on ur team the games basically over?
no matter how buffed tanks get, only having 1 is going to suck
balmy wolf
doesnt this mean that if you get a bad tank on ur team the games basically over?
less people means more carry potential
umbral sapphire
less people means more carry potential
also more throw potential
balmy wolf
kinda
you cant get carried anymore
thats good
its easier to play around onetricks
umbral sapphire
I wont roast it too much until I try it
balmy wolf
https://tenor.com/view/trash-garbage-truck-aye-bruh-there-goes-your-opinion-gif-...
shut
and be optimistic
plush grail
i want a new hero
plush grail
what
raw ermine
https://twitter.com/TempoZP/status/1395463518388822018
The gloves are off
Twitter
balmy wolf
true
mortal abyss
yeah idk what that jayne take was lmao
umbral sapphire
2cp is confirmed to be removed right?
balmy wolf
yes
plush grail
yep
umbral sapphire
nice
weak bolt
yeah that seems like a tweet to just get attention
umbral sapphire
I actually think that if they do go through with all these changes, if they execute it well itll actually be a a great game
balmy wolf
its gonna be so much fun
balmy wolf
jayne take
balmy wolf
maybe this means more teams in general?
actually
mortal abyss
b,izzard wouldnt the orgs would, so jaynes take makes no sense
balmy wolf
this is expected
weak bolt
Bren/Reinforce/Sideshow seem to think every team will want 2-3 tanks anyway, as there will be so many tanks to specialise on
umbral sapphire
super looks dead inside
balmy wolf
theyll expand 100%
mortal abyss
maybe this means more teams in general?
its possible there will be expansions for OW2, but itll probably take a while since last time orgs invested heavily on a recently released game (ow1) it didnt work out great
weak bolt
I doubt we'd see more teams in OWL straight away. Orgs would want to see the popularity of OW2 first
mortal abyss
Twitter
mortal abyss
I doubt we'd see more teams in OWL straight away. Orgs would want to see the pop...
yeah this
maybe a couple more chinese teams
but not much more then that
barren quest
Uhh those current off tank players will still be there
weak bolt
Adding a couple of apac teams could make sense honestly. Especially if the Chinese homestands get crazy popular this year
barren quest
Rotate to them if needed to play a certain tank
balmy wolf
Rotate to them if needed to play a certain tank
ty dude
theyll rework doom aswell
niiiiiice
barren quest
Teams already have multiple DPS players to cover different DPS heroes
Same will happen for tanks
balmy wolf
exactly
weak bolt
I suspect some of the OWL tank players will have to go
noble nexus
super has fully realised just that he's sat having a conversation with the people that have fucked choi's career over and is livid
plush grail
super isn't sad he's just preparing for after the stream
plush grail
he's going to the gulag with smurf and choi
noble nexus
lmfao
balmy wolf
like he gets deleted
tribal canopy
super has fully realised just that he's sat having a conversation with the peopl...
i dont understand that sentence
weak bolt
Super would be fine, he'd get a team as his hero pool is quite a lot better than lots of other owl MT's
noble nexus
I missed words because I'm braindead
mortal abyss
rio : o
noble nexus
I mean super is a top 3 rein at worst and a decent winston
and they're both gonna be alright I reckon
dva is 6ft under
mortal abyss
this map looks awesome
noble nexus
yeah it looks really nice
weak bolt
balmy wolf
ayyy guys
look at the maps
ow2 gonna have map metas
change my mind
gonna be so fun to watch
noble nexus
it'll have a diverse meta
balmy wolf
what we wanted
noble nexus
I'd rather have off tanks than a diverse meta tho
weak bolt
It's all going to depend so much on them keeping tanks balanced
If 1 tank is so much more powerful than the rest, we'll see that tank in every match
noble nexus
ball probably
or sig
chengdu's ball comp is gonna be meta
chengdu win overwatch 2
mortal abyss
tbh im not opposed to 5v5 i just dont think tank is the role to remove
mortal abyss
ya
weak bolt
Its the only role you could remove I think. 1 dps would ruin the game, and 1 support would be horrid to play with
balmy wolf
?????
noble nexus
I think tank synergy is just more fun
raw ermine
yeah, like is there a way to make it 5v5 without losing 1 player, sounds stupid but seriously, those OWL players being gone, feels bad
hot onyx
Aight tuned into the stream and they ruined the franchise
noble nexus
honestly 0 dps would be better
umbral sapphire
yeah
balmy wolf
ok youre trolling
weak bolt
Majority of playerbase are DPS, so you'd be doubling their queues instantly
umbral sapphire
playing this long for a dead comp game only to be cut
tawdry hamlet
Idk I think removing a whole player from the game mode that people have been grinding for 5 years is kind of silly. But I'm not opposed to the game and will judge fully when it's released
balmy wolf
thank god
noble nexus
fuck em
digital cloud
People keep saying this doesn’t ruin it, but I don’t see how
noble nexus
I don't think it ruins it
digital cloud
Either you have to buff all tanks to be worth two
Or alter the game’s maps fundamentally
balmy wolf
Either you have to buff all tanks to be worth two
thats what they are doing bro
tawdry hamlet
I will withhold judgement until release but at face value removing a whole person is like 
digital cloud
Or turbo nerf all the dps
noble nexus
I'm just annoyed about owl tanks losing their careers because I don't see how a lot of these tanks don't get dropped
balmy wolf
I'm just annoyed about owl tanks losing their careers because I don't see how a ...
then look again
tawdry hamlet
So is it an f in da chat for off tanks or main tanks
noble nexus
zarya looks like the only good off tank tbh
unless ball is an off tank and I'm an idiot
balmy wolf
ball is mt
hot onyx
What about peoples jobs
noble nexus
then zarya is the only good OT imo
hot onyx
In owl and contenders
weak bolt
No job is guaranteed forever, especially in esports
balmy wolf
zzzzzzz
balmy wolf
you guys
weak bolt
Those OT's may also be desirable if Zarya/Sigma/Dva become very strong
hot onyx
Pretty weird way to excuse 1/6th of the league getting cut
weak bolt
League means nothing in comparison to the game as a whole
You're talking about what, 20-30 players in OWL vs the millions of OW players
hot onyx
Also potential owl newcomers and contenders players
balmy wolf
Pretty weird way to excuse 1/6th of the league getting cut
they are not getting cut wtf
weak bolt
The tanks who adapt best will remain/gain owl spots
balmy wolf
The tanks who adapt best will remain/gain owl spots
thats how it should be
hot onyx
How tf is someone like Void gonna get a spot in owl2 then if owl1 gets left in the dust?
balmy wolf
he gets played
weak bolt
He grinds the new Zarya/Dva/Sigmas super hard and becomes amazing at them?
weak bolt
Then you have a Monkey/Rein/Ball player as the other tank on the team
balmy wolf
so what?
mortal abyss
god rio actually looks amazing
hot onyx
Idk it doesn’t sit right with me
balmy wolf
thats fine
hot onyx
5v5
weak bolt
Teams will always have 2 tanks on a roster, more likely 3
hot onyx
Rio looks kinda neat
weak bolt
Especially if they add more tank heroes in
balmy wolf
Teams will always have 2 tanks on a roster, more likely 3
youre rolling my dude
stuck sparrow
hot onyx
I just don’t see how 5v5 as a whole can have a positive impact on the game
weak bolt
Hard to tell without actually playing it, but by the sounds/looks of it, it looks more fun
hot onyx
Idk it doesn’t look as balanced
balmy wolf
and
mortal abyss
hot take: team 2 will win owl 2022
balmy wolf
new stuff
hot onyx
It just feels weird, as if the first pick decides the team fight
balmy wolf
thats big
weak bolt
imo all roles will be more fun
Supports have only 1 tank to focus on at a time, dps have more ability to play around a tank, and tanks know they'll be getting more healing & more dominance than now
balmy wolf
yeah
raw ermine
Twitter
digital cloud
“More dominance”
balmy wolf
we need to play it
digital cloud
We already get fucked hard enough with two of us
weak bolt
Less CC, more healing on you, and stronger abilities
balmy wolf
We already get fucked hard enough with two of us
get good
weak bolt
Zarya looks powerful as hell now
digital cloud
You guys clearly don’t appreciate how much tanks have to do
hot onyx
You guys clearly don’t appreciate how much tanks have to do
Based
weak bolt
Tanks will be more fun to play, you'll be able to play far more aggressively in 5v5 than you do now imo
hot onyx
Honestly something just tells me that it’ll be easier to farm the tanks health to 0
digital cloud
Play rein into a good Ana doom and reaper sometime
digital cloud
It sucks ass
weak bolt
The tank will be getting a lot more healing now though remember, and you'll give the enemy team less ult
hot onyx
Remember when sombra brig and ana were all meta?
digital cloud
The healing will be so useful when I get antied won’t it
weak bolt
Matrix looked buff, Zarya has more bubbles etc. Tanks won't be the same as they are now
digital cloud
When I get chain stunned
balmy wolf
more hp more dmg
weak bolt
and they said they're reducing CC
hot onyx
Try winston diving into that without getting melted in the space of 3 seconds in 5v5
digital cloud
Any cc means you get melted if the enemy is good
balmy wolf
idk what your problem is
digital cloud
That is why you need a fucking ot
balmy wolf
Any cc means you get melted if the enemy is good
did you listen
digital cloud
My problem is you seem to think the devs are good enough to buff one tank to be as good as two
digital cloud
They couldn’t even nerf brig right
weak bolt
You're thinking too much of playing current tanks into 5v5. They'll be more powerful
hot onyx
Each tank is gonna have 1000 hp now?
digital cloud
They literally showed us their idea of giving rein two fireballs basically
weak bolt
Zarya can self buff 2x now for example, that's going to make her far harder to kill
digital cloud
Wait, it occurs to me this is a bit off of esports topic
hot onyx
Ah yes but when did that stop people talking about football scores here?
weak bolt
I think we'll see a bunch more tank specialists appear. Become an amazing ball player and you'll be more desirable than an ok Rein/Winston player
hot onyx
We’re seeing those anyway
And the specialists have a chance to get almost 0 playtime or all the playtime in ow2
weak bolt
Again depends on the balance
If all tanks are somewhat viable, then you could do it
If ball is trash 99% of the time, then yeah no point
hot onyx
Tanks are just gonna get hard farmed unless they gigabuff the entire role harder than 2020 playoffs hog
The entire synergy of having a second tank by your side will disappear overnight, and it’ll be a lot harder to prevent getting into tough situations and getting out of them
weak bolt
Imo the game needs the shake up like this anyway. OW has been getting very stale. If the game becomes popular again, it's a good thing for OWL
digital cloud
Plenty of people play ow
You guys are confusing the esports with the player base
The player base is still massive
weak bolt
Playerbase is still ok, but it has been shrinking. If OW2 is very popular then it'll grow significantly
balmy wolf
if you want your fav game to die
earnest leaf
I'm just not gonna play if this goes through
5v5 has to be one of the worst ideas they could of thought of
earnest leaf
It's also the fact they gave the most baseless braindead reasonings to put it to 5v5
tropic herald
If they was gonna do a 5v5 they shouldn’t get rid of the second tank
earnest leaf
I might play a bit to see how it is, but my motivation will die hardcore to play
I can easily see myself just dropping it
balmy wolf
If they was gonna do a 5v5 they shouldn’t get rid of the second tank
what then?
weak bolt
Something needed to change or OW2 wouldn't really feel like a new game
hot onyx
The devs literally said that 6v6 was perfect for Overwatch1 when they were making it since it was the right amount of characters so that when someone dies it isn’t an instant loss unlike in a 5v5
earnest leaf
just a dogshit change for no good reason
tropic herald
what then?
I’d say support would be the least bad idea
balmy wolf
just a dogshit change for no good reason
the reason is 80% leaving the game
balmy wolf
I’d say support would be the least bad idea
hell no
tropic herald
It just feels like all the change so far make the game less competitive
weak bolt
1 support would be horrific to play, you're just be the target instantly.
With nobody really to help you out
earnest leaf
And also every single OT player in contenders/collegiate/owl would get screwed over entirely by this
balmy wolf
supps have to much impact
earnest leaf
It slows down the game and makes it basic as fuck
Forces boring ass comps like double sniper to be ran
weak bolt
OT players will be fine as long as the current OT heroes become viable as solo tanks
earnest leaf
Why would you ever run heroes like mei or reaper when the enemy can just run widow hanzo and ignore you
With two tanks you can at least force a playstyle
With one you just can't
tropic herald
5v5 is gonna be a snooze fest in OWL I hope they make more significant changes that makes it fast pace
balmy wolf
you can
earnest leaf
Passive healing means lucio gets hurt, rush takes a massive blow as well
Lucio/mei are just dead
Rush in general is just kind of dead
balmy wolf
brawl maps are still brawl maps
earnest leaf
all 5v5 does is make the games slower and more boring
balmy wolf
faster
earnest leaf
And encourage more annoying comps
hot onyx
Relax, tanks are gonna get a 1k health boost apparently
weak bolt
5v5 means we never ever get double shield again
hot onyx
Making it fair
earnest leaf
I'd rather play double shield than this dogshit 5v5
Appalling the devs are this incompetent
balmy wolf
bruh
weak bolt
We need to see all the heroes they are fully reworking too
true osprey
5v5 means we never ever get double shield again
it also means no rein zarya, or monkey zarya, or monkey dva
weak bolt
By looks of it, Mcree/Orisa/Sigma/Bastion are all being reworked at least
hot onyx
The heroes being reworked should’ve been enough, add a couple big changes like they did with sym and torb in 2018 and bingo new game
earnest leaf
They need to scrap 5v5 entirely
weak bolt
Wouldn't be a new game like that, it'd be a balance update
tropic herald
Twitter
hot onyx
No need for this bullshit change that will deter new old and professional players from the game
tropic herald
These are my thoughts
earnest leaf
That's another thing
weak bolt
Pro players aren't the main audience for OW2, the millions of casual players are
earnest leaf
From the sound of it, literally no pro player was asked for their input on the balance changes
balmy wolf
they can balance that
earnest leaf
For all we know these silver players we're watching are dictating how the game is balanced
weak bolt
yeah no pros were consulted over the 5v5 by looks of it
tropic herald
Balancing a game to casuals with pros is the worst form of balance in the world
earnest leaf
No wonder jeff fucking peaced out lmao
tropic herald
Just don’t make your game an esport if you think like that
hot onyx
Pro players aren't the main audience for OW2, the millions of casual players are
Ah yes that’s gonna be great for the competitive players, a mindset for the casuals
weak bolt
It's not balancing to casual, it's making it popular for casuals
earnest leaf
That's what pve is for
weak bolt
Blizzard are after profit, and having people playing the game = profit
earnest leaf
PVE is for the casual playerbase
earnest leaf
They are doing a massive pve implement for casual players, don't bog down pvp as well
weak bolt
If they carried on with OW how it was, it'd die. What would bring back old players or new ones if it was just the same with different balance?
balmy wolf
If they carried on with OW how it was, it'd die. What would bring back old playe...
mvp
mortal abyss
its dying because no new content because they are working on ow2 lol
also goats pushed out a large portion of he plkayerbase
hot onyx
The game will literally be more dead than Battleborn within a year because everyone will have completed the PvE mode and gotten all the (possible) enjoyment out of the new style of PvP and either immigrate back to OW1 or Valorant
tropic herald
They’ve left immortality field in the game since release of it
mortal abyss
ow2 will draw in players regardless of if its 5v5 or not
tropic herald
That’s why pros leave
Stupid balance like that makes the game incredibly unfun
On the bright side maps are pretty 
hot onyx
The game is literally being hyped up to no tomorrow before 5v5 was a thing and it was gonna bring in a new audience with old players as well
hot onyx
And Overwatch1 is still going strong, arguably in one of its best states to date
balmy wolf
crimzo op
tropic herald
Well obv off tank heroes won’t die but man the game is gonna be so slowww
tawdry hamlet
https://twitter.com/ericmperez_/status/1395468757963837442?s=21
Playing no shield into near aimbot level aim pros
hot onyx
Playing no shield into near aimbot level aim pros <a:TSMC_ahhhhhhhhh:83753056722...
Just dodge 4head
mortal abyss
My heart goes out to all 6 stacks that now have to cut someone out
tawdry hamlet
mortal abyss
Or tank duos that now have to split up
hot onyx
My heart goes out to everybody that plays the game now that it’s ruined
rare light
My heart goes out to everybody that plays the game now that it’s ruined
This is the opposite of productive
tawdry hamlet
I mean I get being skeptical but it's one live stream 2 years out from release lmao
Well actually
One year I guess I forget 2020 existed
hot onyx
Cool maps to get domed by double sniper and be forced into shield 24/7
Ok I’m done the maps are kinda schweet
mortal abyss
Twitter
hot onyx
Based cashew
heady musk
Mega based
earnest leaf
Twitter
tawdry hamlet
tsm_myth based 
mortal abyss
What’d he say
mortal abyss
Mfer thought the valorant article said that sinatraa won when it was just his second name (won)
tropic herald
God Dafran actually makes my blood boil but this drama is def gonna cause issues so we should limit it’s discussion, I don’t want to mute people today
weak bolt
Dustin making it worse by giving it publicity, best to just not even acknowledge him any more
tawdry hamlet
Literally cannot with dafran his schtick of being toxic even being a whole schtick is like dhsjaieueydhabsh
tawdry hamlet
tawdry hamlet
On another note, with poko rumored to be in Korea you think Current poko is better than this improved version of hotba we've been seeing?
tawdry hamlet
Someone tweeted a pic of him posting a Korean flag emoji lmao but idk I'd assume he's there soon since I think in an interview a coach said they were close I think?
Didn't ninek say that or something?
mortal abyss
They should keep hotba for now until the rest of eu gets here hut keep trying poko in scrims to gel him with Mano more
tropic herald
I’d imagine Poko either got his visa or is near Korea in some way
mortal abyss
Cause mano is the only one on the team who hasn’t been on a mixed roster until now
I could see heroes being split between Hotba and poko
tawdry hamlet
How was Poko last season, I remember fury far more
hot onyx
Someone tweeted a pic of him posting a Korean flag emoji lmao but idk I'd assume...
Philly GM Roston said it https://twitter.com/rostonyoo/status/1391816385223925778?s=21
Twitter
tawdry hamlet
Ah yeah
mortal abyss
I could see heroes being split between Hotba and poko
Like poko for sigma and they split on all the other heroes
Cause hotbas sigma hasn’t looked great (not bad don’t get me wrong but he gets hard doffed by the elite sigmas)
tawdry hamlet
Who's a tank that's comparable to poko
Someone like space?
Or is he better than space
mortal abyss
Yeah I’d say they’re even ig
earnest leaf
Twitter
hot onyx
Based Flats
worn falcon
Twitter
mortal abyss
Idk I’ve been seeing some t2/t3 coaches say the main reason they dislike 5v5 is that it removes tactical depth
Like picks are so so so much more important now
Makes the game better for newbies
But lowers skill cap at the pro level
tropic herald
Twitter
hot onyx
Twitter
tropic herald
This is my cope
hot onyx
Wait until you get to play the game and get melted to a scrap
digital cloud
Crusty on the crack
mortal abyss
hot onyx
https://twitter.com/ShockCrusty/status/1395466770857684995
It’d be exciting as a temporary or arcade game like part of the anniversary event or something, not a full on replacement to the original game
worn falcon
the crust has talked, not me.
tawdry hamlet
Ow2 stream made me forget outlaws picked up a rein otp when they have jjangu
Forgot about that
next mesa
The moment they said "double main tanks like Winston and Hammond might be oppressive" you knew they don't know what the fuck they're talking about
fast tusk
I dont 5v5 thing is as bad matter a fact its a little better
tawdry hamlet
The moment they said "double main tanks like Winston and Hammond might be oppres...
it is oppressive to humans as it supports animal tank supremacy smh
willow tartan
Idk I’ve been seeing some t2/t3 coaches say the main reason they dislike 5v5 is ...
Yes definitely.
it reduces the macro stuff
next mesa
just revert headass
willow tartan
I'm okay with this change, but personally that's because I don't really care how a game changes.
Changes to me, adapting to those changes, that's part of the competitive experience.
Doing whatever shit gets thrown at your way.
earnest leaf
It's just a change that doesn't really solve any problems imo
It only creates new unique ones that are a bitch to work with
trail perch
I'm okay with this change, but personally that's because I don't really care how...
I can personally get used to it
but think about all the tank owl players
Who are just going to be out of jobs
sullen berry
so those overwatch 5v5 custom games I've been playing haven't been for naught
tight hill
I just think the structure of the game is just going to be too lose
sullen berry
loose? I think it's chaotic as a 6v6 and I've had a lot of respect when a team like Vancouver Titans or Atlanta Reign can make a teamfight look cohesive
flowchart overwatch if you look it up in this server will never be the same again
tawdry hamlet
hmm
I don't really think about the players because even if there is only one tank player, it doesn't really mean off-tanks are useless I would think, it just means the tank as a whole is more important
earnest leaf
Tank becomes less important unless they massively buff all of them
tawdry hamlet
well with one less tank if the tank is killed the teamfight is massively swung in one teams favor whereas now you can still save 4v6 or 5v6 fights I imagine in 5v5 one pick will be far far more important, will make characters like widow interesting since if they can get a pick they making a far greater impact than before
at least I think, or it could be exactly the same but with 5 instead of 6 players
that works too
but it will be interesting to see more of how they do the one tank thing
upper niche
I'm a big fan of smaller teams, but it could have worked if they went 5 man teams with a max of 2 on any role.
Allows that flexibility of 2 tanks, 1 dps, 2 supports, or 2 tanks, 2 dps, 1 support or 1t2d2s, which I suppose would become dominant for offensive teams while defensive teams might generally see 2 tanks 1 dps, 2 support.
indigo crest
I'm a big fan of smaller teams, but it could have worked if they went 5 man team...
this goes against the whole point of role lock
lock the game into one specific format so it can be balanced around
balmy wolf
gonna be real interesting to see whole the tank roles evoles in owl
were gonna see a lot of angry twitter post of pros probs
tawdry hamlet
were gonna see a lot of angry twitter post of pros probs
already have lmao
glossy grail
tbh
I think 2-3-2 would have been a better solution
definitely would require rebalancing and would create some chaos too
but mannn 1 tank makes me sad
balmy wolf
7 players?
glossy grail
tank synergy was so interesting
tawdry hamlet
3 flankers in da backline, life for characters like zen would be unfortunate lmao
balmy wolf
you're getting into tf2 levels of gameplay
glossy grail
<:PES2_Bruh:513345721047711744> 3 flankers in da backline, life for characters ...
they'd be rebalancing either way with a slot number change
didn't have to eradicate the possibilities of tank synergy
tawdry hamlet
fair, I just don't really know how to feel about this change lmao
balmy wolf
7 players is way too much for any comp game besides br
barren quest
I think it will be good when done right
glossy grail
7 players is way too much for any comp game besides br
I really don't agree, if anything I think br thrives better on smaller group sizes
barren quest
Problem was the timing was not very good
glossy grail
ow's time to kill was already quite long, wasn't it?
barren quest
It was a early WIP build with not a lot done to most of the tanks
Like Hog was unchanged in the stream
glossy grail
7 on 7 would definitely hasten the pace of the game but I think that would be a good thing
flashbacks to payload going to 9-9...
balmy wolf
maps arent big enough to accomdate that many players imo
glossy grail
if we gonna do a long round I want more action
balmy wolf
and imagine the choke points
glossy grail
maps arent big enough to accomdate that many players imo
you mean aren't?
I think it would incentive more interesting positioning
balmy wolf
all i see when i think 7v7 is hitscan with mercy + zen
too much shit to handle at that point
im just hoping the rework tanks are good at this point
glossy grail
I'm thinking of Junkertown with all the nooks and crannies
3 dps would allow for a designated flanker
a lot more action between major teamfights
balmy wolf
too much shit m8 im telling you
glossy grail
1 tank restricts action on behalf of the tanks
balmy wolf
how in tf would u balance 14 players in one match
glossy grail
disagree
like I said
with 3 dps
you can delegate duties more clearly
you go hitscan, I go projectile, he does flanks
or we both go hitscan
balmy wolf
have u ever seen tf2 9v9? its a cluster fuck
glossy grail
have u ever seen tf2 9v9? its a cluster fuck
tf2 is much simpler than overwatch
and I agree 9 is too much
7 is not as bad as you make it out to be
tbh overwatch is already more slow paced than other fps
in a market that thrives off excitement and action
glossy grail
yes in constant fighting
glossy grail
it's still fps
the fps thrill is killing
and fighting
not being a payload maid while nothing happens for a solid while bc the enemy physically can not make it
overwatch was already getting quite routine and procedural feeling in many ways
upping the pace and adding another player on each team to mix things up really wouldn't have hurt
imo
balmy wolf
adding more players inherently makes it more team oriented
balmy wolf
but u also dont want to lean too far into it
glossy grail
overwatch could only benefit from being the specialist in team oriented fps
solo carry fps
are oversaturated
other fps with a squad or group function still essentially are lone wolf, except there's a couple people you don't need to kill
balmy wolf
i like being able to be a playmaker, but i also dont like when i literally dont have any playmaking ability at all
a lot players have been saying this for years when they stop playing ow
glossy grail
7 players would not limit playmaking
balmy wolf
it became way too team centric and allow very little player freedom
keen mirage
imo as a lower rank (low gold) I think having another dps would be way worse because bastion, sim, and torb on 2cp
glossy grail
again, they can balance that out
like they already need to
with 5v5
it's not like they AREN'T changing kits for ow2 already
keen mirage
also if dpses just suck you get 3 dead teammates
next mesa
if you think its in constant fighting you're actually high
glossy grail
the odds are better
next mesa
Overwatch gets so much more action than other mainstream games
glossy grail
if you have 3 dps
keen mirage
and you are right sol0ce
glossy grail
that one is at least competent
keen mirage
i guess
next mesa
like fortnite valorant csgo and apex
glossy grail
if you think its in constant fighting you're actually high
I said overwatch ISN'T always in constant fighting
keen mirage
when it comes to more action, but like wouldn't it be easier to spawn can't
glossy grail
and that it's less action than other fps
glossy grail
when it comes to more action, but like wouldn't it be easier to spawn can't
it would even out with the amount of firepower to break out of spawn camp
next mesa
and on other games like apex you spend most of your time looting and shit anyway
have you ever played overwatch
glossy grail
lmao
next mesa
theres this thing its called healing
glossy grail
indeed there is
glossy grail
bruh
next mesa
mb
keen mirage
if there would be an extra character i think another healer would be better idk
next mesa
low ttk = less action and fighting
keen mirage
im not very well versed in esports
next mesa
just like valorant: hold an angle
glossy grail
if there would be an extra character i think another healer would be better idk
I feel like that would be worse
next mesa
its a 1 tap
glossy grail
even higher ttk if there were 3 healers
next mesa
you're actually engaging in combat less
keen mirage
just like valorant: hold an angle
just like siege
next mesa
overwatch you're constantly shooting at shit
even if they die slower
hence more action
keen mirage
yea
glossy grail
low ttk = less action and fighting
I agree other games have low ttk, but you immediately go agane and get into another fight
they're short and sweet
and to the point
glossy grail
you win the round, you begin the next round
and this next round is over about as fast as the first
next mesa
but the time you spend rotating, setting up, buying weapons and abilities, waiting for enemies at an angle,>>>>>>>> actually shooting at things
glossy grail
the rounds are time limited aren't they
you have x time to do shit?
maybe I'm thinkin of the wrong game lol
next mesa
and if you die early you wait for the respawn until next round anyway
nah nah you're right
but its like how many min
glossy grail
yea there's no time limit on ow rounds
glossy grail
ow can be 6 minutes ez stomp
next mesa
I think its 1:45
keen mirage
yea there's no time limit on ow rounds
isn't it 4 min to get point
glossy grail
or 30 minutes endurance
glossy grail
isn't it 4 min to get point
overtime
next mesa
You have 1:45 per round
- more if you plant the spike
90 second buy phase
and you spend most of the round not shooting at things
instead of ow yeah
keen mirage
or 30 minutes endurance
well yeah if its going back and fourth but if you cn just knock them off for like half a secod
next mesa
not really a time limit except 2cp control other shit
keen mirage
and you get point
next mesa
well there is a time limit
but game time varies
but the point is
most of the time that you are playing
you're actually shooting stuff
you die
glossy grail
the lesser amount of shooting you have to do makes it more exciting when you do get to
imo
keen mirage
imo i disagree
glossy grail
if you're constantly shooting, just feels like a job like
next mesa
some people like that more
next mesa
but the thing that's good about overwatch is that most of the time if you make a really nice mechanical play it still rewards you
like yeah u might be shooting tanks and shields but then that flick on that tracer
still feels just as good
keen mirage
yea
glossy grail
yup
keen mirage
or you go for the big flank and get a 4 k
next mesa
personal opinion really
keen mirage
personal opinion really
yeah i agree with you
next mesa
I just think that overwatch has less downtime than other games, more action and Im doing stuff more often hence I like it more
glossy grail
i agree that it does with what you've said
keen mirage
there's a lot more surprise with valorant and csgo
well like i guess but since lives are more important the suspence builds up
glossy grail
just think another dps slot would make that downtime even less
more breakout fights, more flanking
keen mirage
I just think that overwatch has less downtime than other games, more action and ...
same this is why i dislike siege
keen mirage
more breakout fights, more flanking
true
glossy grail
being flanked is exciting to me
lol
there's nothing surprising about the 76 in front of you shooting at you for 30 seconds
keen mirage
being flanked is exciting to me
imo i just see it as annoying when your team does jack lol
glossy grail
the reaper suddenly dropping on you after losing sight on him for a bit will make you shit urself
keen mirage
there's nothing surprising about the 76 in front of you shooting at you for 30 s...
but when the sombra just blitzes you from the back yk
glossy grail
the 1v1
keen mirage
yea
glossy grail
ah yea this started off on like
I prefer 2-3-2
over 1-2-2
as a change to role slots
keen mirage
it sucks when you are about to kill the mei and then the rein just pounds you from the back
i could go either way
glossy grail
it sucks when you are about to kill the mei and then the rein just pounds you fr...
it's a shame you didn't get the kill but if you were the rein
keen mirage
but i rather have whats going on as of rn
glossy grail
but i rather have whats going on as of rn
yea I am fond of 2-2-2
keen mirage
yea I am fond of 2-2-2
yea
i kinda soley play open q
bc thats what i started playing
when i first joined
so it just feels normal
and 5 is just a weird number
glossy grail
def agree
keen mirage
bc it just feels like your missing the one
its like losing the tank on a six stack
it just don't feel fight
right*
keen mirage
yeah haha
glossy grail
I remember all the trashing when it became a thing
watch people start singing its praises now
keen mirage
but back then people usually did 222 on open q
glossy grail
lol
keen mirage
i remember my like second ever comp game i got people throwing to the bottom of copper
and i almost stopped playing comp but yk it just be like that
glossy grail
loool
I think I was the thrower in my earliest comp games...
tbh
I mean I dropped all the way to 600, so... 
keen mirage
haha
lol
yk i hate the torb change
like ever since the change i just hated his ult
glossy grail
the fact that it's completely negatable by dva...
and it's not really mind gameable or hard to do
keen mirage
well usually no one plays dva at my rank
like i always get a rein and what ever or the ball and orisa picks that do jack all
glossy grail
sad
keen mirage
you barely see d/va
upper niche
this goes against the whole point of role lock
So what? 'Role lock'/queue as such was introduced because people found a way of using game mechanics in a way the devs didn't anticipate, which was making balance difficult, and because in public games it was negatively affecting the ability to get a fair game. Part of this is because they were unwilling to limit heal stacking.
A max of 2 per role does not make sense in a 6-man composition since you just end up with 2/2/2 - but where there is a flexible number if you cap it at 2 it works.
keen mirage
So what? 'Role lock'/queue as such was introduced because people found a way of...
wdym but using game mechanics in a way the devs didn;t anticipate
upper niche
Using a combination of tanks/healers to basically make an invulnerable turtle - healing that can't be out-damaged on high-health tanks.
indigo crest
So what? 'Role lock'/queue as such was introduced because people found a way of...
a max of 2 per role makes sense in a 6 man game cause then you can balance exclusivly around one comp instead of 4 or 6 and just fail because you cant
keen mirage
Using a combination of tanks/healers to basically make an invulnerable turtle - ...
oh ok
upper niche
a max of 2 per role makes sense in a 6 man game cause then you can balance exclu...
Yes, but that's irrelevant now that they are going to 5-man teams.
indigo crest
the principle still applies just with diffrent numbers now
keen mirage
so this is a dumb question is this affecting ow1
indigo crest
so this is a dumb question is this affecting ow1
yes
keen mirage
why
upper niche
We've also seen comps like 4-dps, where you just have massive amounts of damage output, which is difficult to balance against without nerfing more traditional compositions.
indigo crest
really they're just selling use PVE content for 40 bucks all the PVP 'OW2' things are just gonna be added to OV1
next mesa
Id rather have 7v7 isntead of 5v5
keen mirage
Id rather have 7v7 isntead of 5v5
tbh saem
indigo crest
Id rather have 7v7 isntead of 5v5
welcome to - longer que times
upper niche
Overwatch plays great as 4s - but that doesn't lend itself well to structured franchises of professional teams.
south vapor
We've also seen comps like 4-dps, where you just have massive amounts of damage ...
bruh so tru
upper niche
Frankly, GOATS would have disappeared if they had just reduced 2nd stacked healing to 50% and third to 0%.
keen mirage
i really wish that there would be a game mode of comp with still has 6v6
keen mirage
Frankly, GOATS would have disappeared if they had just reduced 2nd stacked heali...
what is that?
upper niche
what is that?
So if for example say you've got three healing effects on a target all doing 50hps, the second would only do 25hps and the third would be reduced to zero, giving you effectively 75hps instead of 150.
keen mirage
Frankly, GOATS would have disappeared if they had just reduced 2nd stacked heali...
is this a thing?
upper niche
no. Damage boost is the only thing that's capped.
shadow dagger
no. Damage boost is the only thing that's capped.
Damage resist not damage boost
keen mirage
no. Damage boost is the only thing that's capped.
shouldn't both be capped
upper niche
Damage resist not damage boost
eh? no...
upper niche
WTF are you talking about, 'damage resist'?
shadow dagger
Damage boost is not
Fortify for example
40% damage resistance
You can’t have more than 50% damage resistance on one target
upper niche
That's limited to a few heros. I'm talking about stacking say Mercy Damage Boost + Bongo + Nano. It's capped.
shadow dagger
No, it’s not.
upper niche
damage boost is capped to 70%
keen mirage
does baps ult get capped out?
next mesa
Goats was starting to disappear either way
upper niche
Goats was starting to disappear either way
Yes, but was being replaced by things like 4, hell, we even saw 5 dps in one OWL match.
even though it was brief.
keen mirage
ok gn now for now
upper niche
holy hell Chengdu have a tough week - vs SHD and vs PHI
then in Week 3 vs SEO. This might be the stage CDH don't make the finals.
tropic herald
next mesa
Not surprised
He looks bad
Doesnt like ow anymore probably
Especially after seeing this shitshow
trail perch
I wish we got to see the erster diem dps line
One last time
Ardeont then LFZ
They used to be gods
:(
Im sad
next mesa
Still are honestly
next mesa
If u put erster that's kinda washed but not really hypothetically not retired
trail perch
Now diem is cursed to lose whenever he plays
They arent where they used to be
They used to be THE best
Early pacific OW, Contenders china 2018, OWL season 2
balmy wolf
erester probs lost the spark for the game after s2
balmy wolf
too bad corona happened
earnest leaf
Remember when people were predicting erster to be an mvp candidate for s3
balmy wolf
i dont doubt he wouldnt be one
man was a crazy good projectile dps
had a cracked hanzo, genji, pharah, doom, not sure about junk but yea play all the dps at a high level
trail perch
not to mention mei
and tracer
If he was still at his peak for the genji meta
just the idea sends shivers down my spine
If atlanta got their shit together and ran pokpo orisa
Gator sig
then GG they prob would have won the SS
balmy wolf
Twitter
gusty rampart
Orb of Discord
Can easily destroy tanks
Regardless of heals
Focus fire tank win the battle
It's a mess
balmy wolf
not really
balmy wolf
imo the game is gonna be kill the healers to win. why should you focus a buffed tank who can be pocketed by 2 healers?
gusty rampart
A tank being hard pocketed leaves the rest of the team vulnerable
balmy wolf
i just dont understand how all these survivability abilities will let tanks melt
balmy wolf
isnt that how its supposed to be
gusty rampart
i just dont understand how all these survivability abilities will let tanks melt
Hack and Orb of Discord
balmy wolf
?????
balmy wolf
you never got solo graved and didnt die cause of healers pocket
gusty rampart
And Reaper will kill him
balmy wolf
you underestimate healing impact
balmy wolf
bruh
gusty rampart
You make it sound like the enemy team are vegetables
gusty rampart
They don't know how to attack anyone other than the tank
balmy wolf
huh
gusty rampart
They can focus healers and DPS
balmy wolf
lol
gusty rampart
Tanks will be extremely vulnerable
gusty rampart
Hack, Orb of Discord, and Flanking in general
balmy wolf
you flank to kill a tank
gusty rampart
Not every team will spend all their resources on a Tank
balmy wolf
theres no way youre serious
gusty rampart
Lul I play flank heroes yes
balmy wolf
oooof
balmy wolf
focus vulnerable targets all youll climb 500 sr
gusty rampart
That's not what I am saying
balmy wolf
but you literally said that
gusty rampart
I'm saying Tanks will be vulnerable to certain abilities.
balmy wolf
hack?
discord
you dont dive tanks
and hack doesnt change its use
you still get melted in 2-2-2
gusty rampart
But there are other ways to kill a tank
balmy wolf
if he missplays sure
but thats the tanks fault
make good plays matter
punish bad plays
gusty rampart
You act like tanks are invulnerable
gusty rampart
Shields break, you get dived, your teamates die
balmy wolf
no way
gusty rampart
With a high damage comp they are
balmy wolf
you think that
gusty rampart
I think you underestimate the orb of Discord
earnest leaf
enemy team runs zen and the single tank is now perma dead
balmy wolf
i think you underestimate how to play dive
if your shield broke while the enemy used no abilities
you missplayed
youll discord rein in poke comps
but youre on a good poke map
why are you playing rein
the only thing that really got tanks to melt
is chain cc
earnest leaf
If we're talking about 5v5, I can very easily see poke comps forced over rush on rush maps
balmy wolf
which they gonna tweak
earnest leaf
Because if you run rush in 5v5, it has to be rein
balmy wolf
see it that way
earnest leaf
rein can't do fuck all vs poke without a bubble or dm
balmy wolf
1 less sigma to stun you
he can
speed on them
theyll have 1 less tank to poke them out
no ball to disrupt your team
only sigma
earnest leaf
Sure but he now has a 1200 hp shield vs dps that can still burn it
balmy wolf
who needs to actively think now how to stop the brawl
earnest leaf
And has no dva or zarya to mitigate that if his shield breaks
in the end
5v5 is ass
earnest leaf
I don't care that the enemy also has one less tank to poke you out
You not having a tank to help mitigate that poke is worse
balmy wolf
you shouldnt play brawl on maps that are good for poke