esports-discussion

[digital cloud]

I was thinking of paris v philly

[next mesa]

2 teams each region right

[digital cloud]

that was the only reason paris could beat philly

[next mesa]

im thinking dragons will qualify for every tourney

[mortal abyss]

Yeah but in thier other matches it was usually pretty close, it was always fun watching them play against each other

[next mesa]

second apac rotate between like every apac team

[digital cloud]

on paper dragons have the current best dps line

and close to the best tank and support

[next mesa]

yes omg they are so crackedddddd

[mortal abyss]

probably a rotation of philly spark seoul

[next mesa]

dps needs to be more explosive this year

since they dont have fearless

the playmaker

[digital cloud]

every year just gets better and better for most teams

[tropic herald]

I think this is going to be Fate’s year

[digital cloud]

I have my doubts

[next mesa]

fate's gonna look really good

[tropic herald]

Did you watch him at NEXT?

[next mesa]

He doesn't hardthrow he's gonna look top tier

[digital cloud]

a bit

[next mesa]

yeah fate ball

outplayed fearless ball

[tropic herald]

In the last game

[next mesa]

I didn't watch the finals yet

[digital cloud]

he is absolutely great, ofc, but I have a thing where I get really hyped about newcomers

[tropic herald]

His ball was hacked significantly less times than Marve1 and Gesture

[digital cloud]

I am thinking 9a9a, muze, and mag outdo him

[mortal abyss]

is 9a9a a better ball then ameng? I've seen a couple people say he is but i don't atch much contenders

[next mesa]

dallas needs to hit the right meta to be championship level

[tropic herald]

Ok, Gaga is another one I think will be insane

[digital cloud]

idk how his name is spelled

point is, that dude and mag and muze are freaks

[next mesa]

gaga has ameng ball but can actually play other tanks

[mortal abyss]

neither do i

[tropic herald]

Gaga Muze Fate Mag Smurf Fearless

[mortal abyss]

oh ok

[tropic herald]

Those are the best ones I can think of

[digital cloud]

sado maybe?

sado pretty good

[tropic herald]

Supposedly Takoyaki is a freak

[digital cloud]

maybe more like a tier

than s

Takoyaki I hear is good as well

[tropic herald]

I think Sado is pretty good, I’d be willing to keep him S if he performs on Toronto

[digital cloud]

honestly toronto kinda sleeper pick rn

I keep forgetting how many good pieces they have

[mortal abyss]

Mano has potential to be amazing with a better support line and better coaching this year

[tropic herald]

Toronto has a really scary roster but I’m low key scared of some of their players

Like Ansoonjae and Michelle

I have no idea who the former is and the other one was meh in my memory

[digital cloud]

not all of them are what I would consider winners, true

but they to me have about the same sort of pieces as, say, washington or boston

maybe Washington a bit higher but

[tropic herald]

Mag Fury Decay is def enough to Puch Justice high even if other parts underperform

[digital cloud]

only a few teams really look weak rn

London, paris, Vancouver

maybe atlanta Houston mayhem

[craggy sandal]

How are mayhem weak?

[digital cloud]

others seem like they have potential

well they lost to atlanta

[craggy sandal]

Any of the showmatches legit don’t matter

And they weren’t trying since it was like 2am for them

[digital cloud]

and neither do games, we know

saving strats

bad ping

hurt their elbows, sun in their eyes

anyway, even if the showmatch meant nothing, they haven't gotten that many pieces I would consider game changing

[craggy sandal]

Yaki is legit a crackhead

Bqq is really good

Gnj is also a top tier flex support

Gargoyle a top tier off tank

And kuki

They are definitely going to be in the upper half of na

[digital cloud]

ashamed of the joke?

[mortal abyss]

😭 yeah

[digital cloud]

don't worry, I screenshot it

[mortal abyss]

oh no

[digital cloud]

mwehehehehe

[mortal abyss]

Well you can't send images here so i'm safe

[digital cloud]

yeah, that is true

I can't

can I

hmmmmmmmm

[mortal abyss]

You would have to venture outside of #esports-discussion to do that

[digital cloud]

anywho, I am not high on the idea of the Mayhem

nor can I truly say that I think Houston or Atlanta are gonna succeed

and no one wants Valiant or Vancouver to do well

except that one person that showed up here that one time that wanted a team to choose with the team they wanted already in mind

is london or paris likely to be any good?

I seem to remember them having crummy teams

[mortal abyss]

London just picked up Shax a couple of days ago

[next mesa]

london above paris

[tropic herald]

https://twitter.com/atlreign/status/1359624219378786313?s=21

Atlanta Reign (@ATLReign)

Thank you, @SharPow_ ❤️🖤

With this past season's downswings as well as our reigning moments, you always were ready on call to showcase your talents and incredible teamwork to match. Your name will always be a part of Reign's history.

#LetItReign https://t.co/Za8jRUpchR

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 10, 2021, 10:04 PM

[mortal abyss]

oof

[next mesa]

damn so

Kai very likely now

[digital cloud]

seems like edison oughtta be good enough

not sure why they want kai and edison

[cloud latch]

so they have 2 hitscans

[digital cloud]

need to get better supports is what they need

and maybe better tanks

probably better tanks

[raw ermine]

reminder sephy is still HC

[digital cloud]

and another hc

[plush light]

I hope Paris or London sign sharp

[feral zodiac]

Didn't sharp only just get signed

Or was he perma benched

[weak bolt]

He was on roster all S3 I think but never really played

I don't think he'll be on a team now for S4

[worn falcon]

sex big dick to defiant

nice

[silk frost]

tmw lastro gets more of a graphic when joining a team than leaving

[trail perch]

No sharp actually played a fair bit

He was the echo player

And sombra

Not perma starter but not perma benched

[plush light]

Lastro needs to change his name to $ex_b!g_d!ck

[quartz cairn]

$3/\ _8!g_d!ck

[balmy wolf]

hi:)

[upper niche]

Please do not use regular expressions here.

[quartz cairn]

??

[upper niche]

It's okay. One day you'll do computer science and understand why we say that Perl looks like an explosion in an ASCII factory.

[quartz cairn]

no

[plush light]

$€×_B¡G_D¡<K

The Florida mayhem's New superstar, dickomode

[upper niche]

Seriously, my life right now is "if ($linx =~ /CREATE TABLE ["]?(a-z_].)["]?(.)/i){" ... 😦

kmn.

[silk frost]

richard Orwell Mode

[digital cloud]

Imagine using Perl instead of brainfuck like us sophisticated programmers

[sullen berry]

I prefer the minimal programming language
.
. ..

[plush grail]

go code ow2

blizzard isn't gonna do it anytime soon

[noble nexus]

I prefer the english language myself but whatever floats your boat 👍

[plush light]

Whitespace is the best programming language

[next mesa]

looks ugly damn 😔

[raw ermine]

https://twitter.com/DarkModeGLOBAL/status/1359728531010379776

DarkMode (@DarkModeGLOBAL)

WELCOME DARKMODE KOREA.

Coming off a second place finish in Opentest, we've added their roster to our organization to compete in the upcoming Korean Trials season.

@SSSSSungeun01
@EmolGa_ow
@OW_Aphrodi
@_Spera
@Vulture_ow
@awewatch_ow
@arong_ow

Likes

241

Twitter · Feb 11, 2021, 4:58 AM

first NA, then SA, now KR

[next mesa]

Idk who any of those players are but nice

[raw ermine]

assorted NA and KR midtier korean players

[tepid ibex]

Only heard of spera

[sullen berry]

https://twitter.com/ATLReign/status/1359928768878546947?s=19

K A I

Atlanta Reign (@ATLReign)

🚨 Welcome to Atlanta Reign; Kai - @yung_ksp 🚨

The 2021 Season can't come soon enough, we're looking forward to seeing you #LetItReign

#OWL2021 https://t.co/s23fyj0vNL

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 11, 2021, 6:14 PM

[digital cloud]

well it happened

probably the most disproportionately dps oriented team in the league

pelican, edison, and kai, three very good dps

[frank granite]

them and outlaws

[digital cloud]

and no supports or tanks for backup to speak of

yeah, true, but outlaws don't even have that crazy a dps line

happy and danteh are decent enough

but the others are meh

[frank granite]

true

[silk frost]

but the support and tank lines zzzzzzz

[digital cloud]

plus at the very least piggy is supposed to be decent

[silk frost]

on sig

[digital cloud]

sig is still very good, and I doubt he just is decent at sig, but point taken

no one expects anything of either of those teams realistically

[silk frost]

I have pretty good expectations for atlanta

decent support line, decent off tank, fantastic dps

[wanton birch]

how does the valiant moves effect the rankings ?

atlanta or defiant any higher ?

[tepid ibex]

defiant i could see beating teams like florida and dallas this season

[wanton birch]

do they even play lastro over aztac though ?

[tepid ibex]

i doubt they will, only if aztac isnt working I think he will get play time

or in a double flex support

but they may try a rotation with lastro and aztac

[worn falcon]

kai to ratlanta

still no news on valiant roster right?

[karmic grotto]

I can't get used to kai

Anyone else?

[worn falcon]

i got used lol

its more easy

instead mixing with ksf

[digital cloud]

why you calling them ratlanta

did they screw something up too?

[balmy wolf]

doesnt like them

[worn falcon]

always called them ratlanta since they were meh

[balmy wolf]

hmmm

[worn falcon]

they had good players

but never got like some synergy

[balmy wolf]

idk how you can hate a team thats not valiant

[worn falcon]

or not enough to push up here

Erster

Babybay

frd

pokpo

[digital cloud]

I just don't see the connection between comparing them to rats and thinking they weren't a good team

but whatever floats your boat I guess

[plush light]

Is boombox the best Western fs at the moment?

[mortal abyss]

imo yeah

[raw ermine]

kaan maybe

[noble nexus]

crimzo?

or is he really just a moira otp

[trail perch]

Crimzo prob

His moira is top notch

And His ana and Zen are still really good

[cedar oasis]

ratlanta

i love that

[mortal abyss]

I have boom over crimzo for bap but thats literally the only hero boom got playtime on last season

[trail perch]

Bap is more MS, but crimzos wasnt bad by any means

[silk frost]

All Im saying

S1 of OWL and S4 of Apex had the same team basically winning it

S2-3 of both had the best team at the time rolling

Now season 1 of apex had a western roster with 1 new eastern player win it

You know what that means right?

Say hello to your 2021 champions

[turbid cargo]

Which team?

[silk frost]

Vancouver

You could also say dallas because its envy but thats no fun

[raw ermine]

i still don't know why the fkc they buffed her

[silk frost]

I'd buff her shield and remove sigma's

[mortal abyss]

One of my friends made the observation that each year the amount of Eastern-western players in the final map for the winning team in the grand finals has gotten more even over time, in season 1 it was 6 Koreans, season 2 it was 5 Koreans 1 western and in season 3 it was 4 Koreans 2 westerns

[silk frost]

Well to be fair super is still a top 5 orisa

And they would have won with him too

But I see the point

Wait s2 sinatraa and moth?

[mortal abyss]

In the final map of them winning it

[next mesa]

S2-3 had lunatic hai too I'm sold

[mortal abyss]

it was architect rascal smurf choi moth viol2t

[tropic herald]

Glads have 3-3 for their starting roster

[mortal abyss]

😮

So do philly

And shock potentially

[next mesa]

https://twitter.com/haloofthoughts/status/1359848049649086470

Arran “Halo” Spake (@haloofthoughts)

47/50 correctly reported roster moves this off season is actually most I have ever done.

We are still waiting on Kai to Atlanta as well.

https://t.co/V3C66oab6N

Likes

296

Twitter · Feb 11, 2021, 12:53 PM

halo doubters where yall at

48/51 now

[true hound]

lul

[balmy wolf]

oh hey winston got buffed, very nice

[patent moth]

Idk if reaper got buffed or nerfrd on experimental i tried him out i still dont know

[frank bronze]

It's a nerf to his long distance effectiveness but a buff to his close distance effectiveness, so really it's a buff but it's sorta debatable

That's if I read the patch notes right, were the changes made to his range or his spread?

[feral zodiac]

How is it a nerf to long distance effectiveness

[frank bronze]

If the patch is to his range then it is but I'm not sure if they changed his range or his spread

[digital cloud]

Spread

But that affects range too

[next mesa]

It's literally the opposite

I think

Tighter spread means more damage mid range

I think

https://youtu.be/O0gw2tE8LGo

Okay yes cool

[forest raven]

jesus fuck the orisa buff

why

[silk frost]

double shield is eternal

Reaper got nerfed melee ranged, buffed HARD mid range, but nerfed a little bit long range, because at long ranges you will only normally hit 1 or 2 bullets and this won't affect that. Instead, you'll deal like 1-2 less damage per shot. Not a lot, but still TECHNICALLY a nerf at long range. However, the buff to mid range damage is EXTREME

[hexed charm]

indirectly nerfed reaper with the orisa buff tho

[silk frost]

oh a huge indirect nerf yes

[spring lintel]

on the topic of blizz protecting cheaters, was there literally any pro in overwatch that was "found" cheating?

[trail perch]

I think BQB is cheating, but thats just my opinion

[spring lintel]

kinda weird how not a single pro were ever caught cheating for 4 years but thats just my take.

[earnest leaf]

Pros gain nothing from cheating

and have everything to lose

and I wouldn't be surprised if when the had to play remotely, their PCs where scanned for cheats

Since they had to play official matches

[silk frost]

I mean Mouffin cheated

just not at the game

and Valiant cheated like 8 players so who's really the cheater

[tawdry hamlet]

I believe since they all play at team houses and it is a franchised league where they use sponsors and equipment and stuff any potential financial gains are outweighed by the huge amounts of losses

If they cheat, their org and team get fined, they'd be blacklisted, lose their legaue salary and shit. All for what to like win a prize pool that could be voided if cheating was discovered. They make far too much money and have grinded way too hard to justify cheating outside of things like smurfing and account boosting since many players have been fined for that

Also I think the league games are played on a specific client or something so im sure cheating just isn't feasible

[upper niche]

Winston buffed too. Reaper on paper seems quite 'meh' now.

[mortal abyss]

Pretty sure Jon spector said they were

[dapper stone]

anyone know any good diamondish tournaments going on around now?

[upper niche]

There's a number of things they have in place, one of those is remote access.

When they're playing on-prem, the systems are all a set spec and the players have two SSDs which are removable/replacable - one they keep and one clone which stays on-prem. However I don't know what hardware was being utilised for Season 3 when they were remote.

[orchid acorn]

hey-team manager here-looking for a coach for TANK DPS and SUPPORT-message me for more info

[balmy wolf]

#lf-players-na

@orchid acorn

[feral zodiac]

I highly doubt anyone in the owl is cheating

[plush light]

I think that lastro is using sexBigDick.exe to cheat.

[plush grail]

ameng is not cheating

but being such a chad

should be bannable

[shadow dagger]

Is OWL following 222 or will it be like open q?

[balmy wolf]

222

its ranked standards

[digital cloud]

Is owl keeping hero pools this year?

[balmy wolf]

i hope not

but they cant balance their game

so we might stuck with the same shit meta for the whole season

thats bad aswell

[hot onyx]

Hey is there a channel that I can post my preseason power rankings in?

[tawdry hamlet]

I mean here I guess yee

[hot onyx]

Won’t let me use the picture icon

It’s faded and not budging when I tap it

Do I need verification or a specific role to prove that I’m not gonna flood the server with furry porn or something?

[tawdry hamlet]

Oh rip

I wasn't sure if regular was required

[hot onyx]

Is there any way to get it?

[next mesa]

cant

well

active

!!regular

[young fractal]

The regular role is given to users who maintain good behaviour and visit the server to chat frequently. Users with this role gain access to special permissions such as uploads, embeds, bot tags, reactions, and role colours. Please do not ask to be given this role, you will receive it when you are eligible! ✨

[next mesa]

:(

[hot onyx]

Sadge

Wait

If I posted it on twitter or reddit and linked the post in here would that violate the rules?

[next mesa]

no

bypass

[tawdry hamlet]

Yeah a lot of people do imgur links or just paste in discord and copy link and paste it here

It won't embed but it can still be clicked on

[hot onyx]

Great I’ll brb

[worn falcon]

https://twitter.com/Viol2t_OW/status/1360127432544583681

Viol2t (@Viol2t_OW)

After watching Overwatch Cinematic, I am proud of Overwatch.

Likes

1644

Twitter · Feb 12, 2021, 7:23 AM

smh paid actor

[plush grail]

what cinematic

[worn falcon]

probs the one for blizzcon

or just bait

[somber solar]

Any currrent way to get free league tokens?

[plush light]

If viol2t gets mvp they should make a troll bap skin

[hot onyx]

Gentlemen, the deed is done

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/liimji/my_preseason_power_rankings_for_2021_feel_free_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[cedar oasis]

Atlanta is too high

Sorry ratlanta

[balmy wolf]

dogshit opinion

[cedar oasis]

ratlanta is going to be bad

[balmy wolf]

theres no way

[cedar oasis]

they have below average tanks and supports

they might be able to beat houston

[balmy wolf]

ill gift you a sub if they are bottom 5

or more idc

[cedar oasis]

bottom 5 in na?

[balmy wolf]

yes

[cedar oasis]

nice

they have a bad tank line and supports

[balmy wolf]

quote me on that

[cedar oasis]

there dps is good tho

[balmy wolf]

ill forget it

they have the best dps in na imo

on par with glads

[cedar oasis]

ok

but their tank line tho

and them supports

[balmy wolf]

yes

[cedar oasis]

garbage

[balmy wolf]

iris is a beast masaa is bad

they are ok

tankline is mid tier

but dps carry

[cedar oasis]

mid tier nah

gator is trash

[balmy wolf]

yes

[cedar oasis]

boston is better then atlanta

[balmy wolf]

no way

[cedar oasis]

i would say houston aswel

[balmy wolf]

stand1 isnt good

[cedar oasis]

he is tho

when he played he was good

[balmy wolf]

1 he played on shanghai

2 vs chengdu

[cedar oasis]

chengdu better then atlanta

[balmy wolf]

maybe

[cedar oasis]

he stil played good

[balmy wolf]

apac is stacked

[cedar oasis]

stand1 better then gator

[balmy wolf]

either team could be top5 in na

[cedar oasis]

not chenngdu

[balmy wolf]

gator isnt that bad man

i watched some vods he is actually pretty good

not the best

[cedar oasis]

currently gator is one of the worst main tanks in na

[balmy wolf]

but def better than stand1

[cedar oasis]

stand1 has shown only good performences

idk how you can say he is bad

[balmy wolf]

hje played two games

wtf

gator played 20

ofc he looks bad against shock

or philly

i mean its not that stand1 was bad

but he had little impact

[noble nexus]

you said stand1 was bad then said he only played two games to disprove him being good

I don't think we know enough about most of his hero pool

although the only not bad component of atlanta is their dps

but their dps have been supposedly top tier every season and they've been dogwater most of the time

[balmy wolf]

he said they are bot 5

[noble nexus]

in NA?

[balmy wolf]

yes

[noble nexus]

ehhh maybe

[balmy wolf]

damn

you guys dont like gator

[noble nexus]

he simply isn't that good

[balmy wolf]

i know

but he cant drag the team down to bot5

4 players are top tier

[noble nexus]

gator hawk hasn't exactly been impressive and I'm not sure they've ever tried to change it up

2 of those are hitscans that play the same hero

their best players are both hitscans

[balmy wolf]

kinda

[noble nexus]

they won't be as good as you think

[balmy wolf]

they are good on every dps hero

[plush grail]

atlanta was never good and will never be good

[noble nexus]

ehhh releasing sharp changed that for me

[balmy wolf]

i dont think they are as good

but bot 5

cmon

[noble nexus]

he was barely played but his echo and sombra were the best on that team

bot 5 in NA isn't doubting atlanta

[balmy wolf]

it is tho

[noble nexus]

NA has unanimously improved

[balmy wolf]

na is shit

[plush grail]

which of these players excluding kai are above average

[balmy wolf]

compared to apac

edison iris pelican

[next mesa]

pelican

idk about iris

[noble nexus]

^

[balmy wolf]

iris def

[noble nexus]

pelican is nuts tho

[balmy wolf]

maybe not edison

but iris for sure

[noble nexus]

he said above average

[plush grail]

i legit would not be surprised if atlanta joins london, vancouver and paris

[noble nexus]

above average for FS isn't close to what iris is

[balmy wolf]

wtf guys

[plush grail]

no but like in the past they kinda had some good pieces like erster and babybay

but wtf do they have now

[balmy wolf]

they literally upgraded

pelican > erster

[noble nexus]

I think they'll place and look better than the bottom 3

[balmy wolf]

ksp > babybay

[noble nexus]

that's all they have

[plush grail]

imo atlanta looking kinda meh

[balmy wolf]

hmm

[noble nexus]

kai and pelican can't deadlift them

[plush grail]

let's hope they play good then

[balmy wolf]

i cant change your mind

[plush grail]

but when i look at their roster

i dont really see any stand out names and this roster could legit have trouble with paris or london

[balmy wolf]

have you seen valiant last year jack?

dps deadlift

[noble nexus]

mcgravy swimmer was better than atlanta

tanks

[balmy wolf]

noooooo

no

no

ur trolling

[noble nexus]

gator hawk aren't good

[balmy wolf]

better then swimmer and mcgravy

pls man

i agree they are mid tier

[noble nexus]

ehhh maybe it can go either way

[plush grail]

i legit only remember hawk and gator being seen as like a decent double shield duo

[balmy wolf]

but no way

[noble nexus]

that's all gator and hawk are good at

lol

[earnest leaf]

gator has a decent rein

[noble nexus]

oh yeah and that

[balmy wolf]

hawks dva is good

[noble nexus]

also you can't compare dogman to lastro

[balmy wolf]

yes they got iris

[plush grail]

who's better, hawk gator or hadi molf1g

[balmy wolf]

gator hawk

no bias

im german

i love hadi

[noble nexus]

hadi molf1g are better at current meta tank line

from what I saw anyway

[balmy wolf]

youhave seen eu contendies

compare that to owl

eu is bad

[noble nexus]

so is gator hawk

not to be a dick

but they've only looked good playing double shield and gator rein

[balmy wolf]

agreed

but they still were gatekeeping bad teams

[noble nexus]

that's nothing to brag about

lol

[balmy wolf]

and they improved their roster heavily

[plush grail]

also jesus christ contenders is dead, the game where bh lost the like 1,3 year long streak does not even have 1k views

[balmy wolf]

sadge

[noble nexus]

blizzard sure are good at promoting things!

[balmy wolf]

yeah...

ok guys imma do a hot take and say atl top 5 na

[earnest leaf]

They promoted contenders in during owl, in game, gave them skins, put them on the launcher, tweeted about them on owl twitter

[balmy wolf]

let see

[plush grail]

atl bottom 4

[earnest leaf]

People gotta realize, others just don't care about t2 like they do owl

[plush grail]

let's see who was right in a few months

[balmy wolf]

reminds me of how i miss owl man

[plush grail]

tbh blizzard does not even care about overwatch in general

[balmy wolf]

pepehands

[hot onyx]

I come back and see the only issue is that I place Atlanta too high

[plush grail]

imagine announcing something in 2019

[balmy wolf]

too low imo but ok xD

[plush grail]

and then just nothing

[hot onyx]

Would’ve thought there would at least be a comment about justice or defiant

[plush grail]

justice and defiant are liks

coin toss

[balmy wolf]

agrred

[plush grail]

the roster for sure looks top 5

but they could still fuck this up BAD

[balmy wolf]

but justice too low anyways

[plush grail]

same for toronto

[hot onyx]

Personally I have more faith in the Michelle gamble over the Closer-Bebe suicide mission

[balmy wolf]

switch them with tor and we gucci

[plush grail]

tor and justice are the 2 sleeper teams

and then we have dallas

which is still such a gamble

[hot onyx]

Everything between GZ and Nyxl is far too close for comfort

[plush grail]

nyxl should be higher

they beat shock 5-0 in scrims

[hot onyx]

Yeah but which season?

1?

[plush grail]

wdym

[noble nexus]

those leaked scrims

[plush grail]

like 2 months ago i think

i could see nyxl being top 3 tbh

[noble nexus]

I love their dps line

[plush grail]

alot of flexibility with the dps

[noble nexus]

gwangboong looks really good too

[plush grail]

if the tanks and support line are decent the dps could carry

[noble nexus]

the support line includes jjonak tho

they built around him which is interesting

[hot onyx]

I don’t think the dps’ backs will be able to stand the pressure

[noble nexus]

they're probably coaching out the feed in jjonak with their not dogshit coaching staff

[plush grail]

weren't there some rumours that nyxl picked up friday because jjonak liked him

i saw that on either reddit or here

[hot onyx]

Whynot will ruin the talent they have 100%

He is literally if you combined the Midas Touch with the Thanos Snap

Even though their tanks and supports are mid tier at best the coaches will ruin any chances they have

[plush grail]

nyxl will play around jjonak perfectly but jjonak will still manage to find a way to feed because of sheer determination

[hot onyx]

Put Flora on FS

Modern problems require modern solutions

[slow pollen]

I need a team looking for a lucio main

[plush grail]

#lf-players-na

[hot onyx]

#lf-players-na

[slow pollen]

Ok thx

[tepid ibex]

in APAC yes

maybe in the whole league, I'd say SFS is better than both teams. I'd say Shanghai only out classes Shock with dps

fleta, lip, erster and diem is a nutty dps line

a common worry i see about Shanghai is their flex support position

izayaki doubters

[plush grail]

isn't ms the worry

ljg

[cedar oasis]

fate isnt top 5 thats shanghais weakest postion

[hot onyx]

Out of the top teams last season shanghai definitely downgraded the least

[tepid ibex]

seen more worries about izayaki last season

i think they only down graded at main tank

i'd say molly is a better than luffy

and they got rid of dding for erster?

[hot onyx]

Correct

[noble nexus]

fate sidegrade

unless monkey is meta

[tepid ibex]

I think fates ball may be better than fearless'

[noble nexus]

maybe

[hot onyx]

Oh no it 100% is

[noble nexus]

wait yeah they had stand1 play it in gf

fearless diffs fate on monkey and that's about it

maybe on rein too

[tepid ibex]

i'd say they're pretty equal on rein and orisa

fearless has a way better monkey

and fates ball is better

[noble nexus]

fearless is a contender for best MT when he's on monkey

[next mesa]

the problem with support line nyxl isnt even jjonak its friday

[noble nexus]

don't even know the guy's name tbf

[plush grail]

you are the problem

[noble nexus]

so I can't comment on him

[plush grail]

owl is usually played on weekends

[hot onyx]

Not much seen from fridays VODs but I wouldn’t say there’s a particular “problem” with nyxl’s roster

[plush grail]

that doesn't benefit friday

[hot onyx]

Seems quite well rounded, not enough to win a title

But the coaching staff will drag them down even lower

[plush light]

Fate is an orissa God, Def upgrade for that. Fate is good on monkey, just not smurf/fearless level, but above average, more like oge level. Fate ball is definitely and upgrade and rein is a side grade. With the new orissa buffs it is a net gain.

[feral zodiac]

I put fate on even footing with fearless as an all around main tank

[next mesa]

rein is not a side grade my guy

Fearless rein so much better

his second best tank and rein is fate's weakest hero

[plush grail]

is chipshajen even alive anymore

[sullen berry]

he's in sweden

of course he's alive

[plush grail]

whats the last thing he has said

online

[raw ermine]

he and snillo are racing to see who can get the most mushrooms in an hour

[obtuse glacier]

Does anyone know how to get condtenders skins for Dva or Zarya, Ive seen both in game but have never seen anything on how to get them

[tropic herald]

If they haven’t been part of the viewer rewards then you have to be part of contenders to get whatever skins

Iirc

[obtuse glacier]

Ah ok I play at a high Elo so those people are probably in Contenders, Thanks

[silk frost]

Owl s1: dive, goats playoffs
Owl s2: goats, double shield playoffs
Owl s3: double shield, hog sig playoffs
Owl s4: double shield, zarya dva playoffs

[raw ermine]

hardly a goats playoff in s1 playoffs, but ok, if we go by your logic, why double shield and zarya dva? shouldn't it be hog sig and a never before known composition, which could be zarya dva?

[silk frost]

My logic is

1. Double shield will never DIE
2. Last time I talked about s1 playoffs here I got bullied for saying it was triple tank solo heal meta ;-;
3. S4 playoffs will probably be stupid as shit, like Zar orisa or something dumber. Dva zar was just what I thought would be funny

[idle forge]

Yea double shield will be meta if the expiramental goes through.

im envisioning an orisa/zen + whatever else is good

because orisa is unkillable except when discorded, especially if we got a bap or an ana on the team

[iron zodiac]

If exp goes through Rein, orisa, reaper, sym, zen, lucio/brig

[buoyant stream]

good morning

wc

[feral zodiac]

Was goats played in s1?

And s3 playoffs was a mix of sig hog and hog zarya

[cedar oasis]

Wasent s1 playoffs double sniper brig

[mortal abyss]

S1 playoffs had a little bit of goats iirc

[silk frost]

S1 playoffs was
40% triple tank double sniper
30% goats
30% dive

[raw ermine]

yo I just saw a clip of a bunch of SFS affiliated players/coaches/streamers playing goats. When did that happen?

[sullen berry]

https://twitter.com/SFShock/status/1360353843398074368?s=20

San Francisco Shock (@SFShock)

Who is going to win?

TEAM STACKED 📚
Striker, FDGoD, ChoiHyoBin, Nero, Glister, Crusty

TEAM NUTTY 🥜
Viol2t, Twilight, Smurf, Ta1yo, super, Emongg

Likes

125

Twitter · Feb 12, 2021, 10:23 PM

yesterday

[raw ermine]

oh

lol

[next mesa]

Crusty shot calling win

[balmy wolf]

What team comp has the best win percentage?

[silk frost]

If you look at every comp ever it'd probably be goats

Right now I dont think you can determine

[digital cloud]

Houston

[next mesa]

seoul

[tawdry hamlet]

I don't have one, I would love old league skins tho I need 2018 shock skins 😭🥺

[kind ridge]

td

how much u think s1 skins are worth now (mayhem, valiant, shock)

[tawdry hamlet]

Idk account selling is against tos so I've never really looked at actual prices for stuff like that

[silk frost]

houston

sadly

[digital cloud]

yeah

it hurts to be a fan of them

but I am anyway

[raw ermine]

https://twitter.com/haloofthoughts/status/1360672949854945281

Arran “Halo” Spake (@haloofthoughts)

Expecting an announcement shortly for the Washington Justice. I believe they have signed a flex DPS

Likes

232

Twitter · Feb 13, 2021, 7:31 PM

in other news angry titans disbanded rip

[cloud latch]

pausechamp

[digital cloud]

why do they need another dps?

are ttuba and decay not enough?

[craggy sandal]

im pretty sure this is the announcement that was happening for justice

https://twitter.com/Gomeyy/status/1360677318734336001?s=20

Justice | Gomey 🏛 (@Gomeyy)

I found my co-op partner for life in Meghin, we only thought it would be fair to queue up a Player 4 so Leighton can have his 😎🎮

Twitter · Feb 13, 2021, 7:48 PM

[raw ermine]

whose gomey?

[craggy sandal]

Justice graphic designer

[digital cloud]

why is everyone talking about reaper fridays

[trail perch]

Rascal...

Or libero

Or Assasin

Or Maybe a trade...

[raw ermine]

halo said not likely to be rascal or libero

[trail perch]

Oh rly?

[digital cloud]

rascal or libero doesn't seem likely

[raw ermine]

likely to be assassin, nothing confirmed

[digital cloud]

and I thought ttuba was a god now or something

[trail perch]

Doubt it

Thats just scrim rumors, and based on those NYXL>SHOCK

[karmic grotto]

yeah

[feral zodiac]

Ttuba decay and jerry

[digital cloud]

jerry doesn't matter

much as he is memed, he is irrelevant since they have decay

[silk frost]

look

they're gonna do the ol' switcheroo

and sign gido as a projectile dps

tbh tho I think Illicit is a fair guess

[cedar oasis]

Nah

They get whoru

[next mesa]

illicit is dogshit

okay to be fair he's competing against profit, but he was still bad

[silk frost]

was he tho?

he was a good pharah

I'm sure he'd play very well under a good system

also a good hanzo

[sand violet]

why would they ever even want illicit

ttuba is just better

[silk frost]

idk I mean

cheap, decent player, decent experience, played under profit

[sand violet]

...so?

ttuba has like

just as much experience lol

like illicit brings nothing to the team

hes not a vet or something

it would just be a waste of money

at least jerry makes it so you can do decay tracer in double hitscan

illicit just does nothing

[silk frost]

is this a thing now?

Illicit isn't even BAD

where did this COME FROM

[sand violet]

Dude hes not starting caliber on any important heroes lol

his hanzo gets dif'd by most hanzos in the league and pharah is irrelevant

why would justice want him when they have a HUGE potential fdps

already

and dont need any of illicit's heroes

[silk frost]

pharah and hanzo he's very good, his junkrat was lowkey insane, and his mei is lowkey very good

[sand violet]

so all heroes justice dont need and most teams already have better players for

its not even illicit hate lol its just facts that hes not gonna start over many players in the league on any heroes

[silk frost]

I feel like I'm being b8ed right now

[sand violet]

dude not everyone who disagrees with you is some troll

[silk frost]

I'm not saying that

[sand violet]

Washington have already passed on several super good fdps and you think ILLICIT is the person they wouldve wanted?

[earnest leaf]

scrimbux op

[silk frost]

I mean they kept bebe and closer so it isn't that weird

people have been picked up for less

[sand violet]

That just has zero correlation to anything lol

[silk frost]

there are WAY better supports out there???

that's the correlation???

[sand violet]

that would be implying that justice had easy picking for other supports

which we dont know

?

use ur brain bud

we dont know if bebe closer was the best of what they had options for or not

we KNOW they passed on other fdps

so again, why would they pass on very good fdps for ttuba just to pick up illicit lol

[silk frost]

Revenge was on the market to start with, Unique is a MS available who is probably BETTER than closer, Vigilante is lowkey really good over in contenders as well

there was definitely better supports than bebe

[sand violet]

people being on market =/= available

players can decide who they trial with and who they accept offers for

and no shot is unique better than closer rn lol

[silk frost]

so the contenders players would rather keep on in contenders (revenge literally whined on twitter about no offers) than get an opportunity on a top 5 NA team?

[sand violet]

Do you think that hasnt happened before?

If you think the only thing that determines players getting signed is being better then

idk

youre wildly ignorant

visa issues, personalities, previous experience with the team, willingness to trial, budget, etc etc etc

again, WE DONT KNOW if justice had better support options available

no matter how much you argue isnt going to change that FACT

you can theorize what players they had available but we dont know

we DO know what dps they passed on bc of public info

its literally that simple

stop trying to be right and just read what im saying lol

[silk frost]

do you realize that you kinda explained my point about illicit being a potential signing for the justice

[sand violet]

omg

[silk frost]

worse player than the dps players they had available, but for some reason or another, he could just fit

[sand violet]

youre illiterate

[silk frost]

???

that is your EXACT argumetn

[sand violet]

right the player they explicitly said they want to build around fits worse than illicit

right

I guess build around is the wrong word but

they value his potential over anyone elses

[silk frost]

yeah because fits is fucking insane

[sand violet]

??

what

are you talking about

[silk frost]

is that not what you're saying?

[sand violet]

im talking about... washington?

[silk frost]

what the fuck is your wording dude

read that again

right the player they explicitly said they want to build around fits worse than illicit

[sand violet]

the player they want to build around - ttuba - fits worse than illicit. That would be your argument if youre saying illicit just "fits"

[silk frost]

you look like a drunk person who's never spoke english in his life found access to a keyboard

[sand violet]

again

just illiterate

[silk frost]

you realize how bad using the word "fits" is in this context is right

[sand violet]

Never did I ever talk about seoul

holy fuck

[silk frost]

when you say "fits" which is ALSO THE NAME OF ANOTHER PLAYER ILLICIT USED TO PLAY WITH

[sand violet]

youre the only one who would get confused by that LOL

[silk frost]

YES

[sand violet]

youre just moronic idk

[silk frost]

BECAUSE IT'S A SIMPLE THING TO GET CONFUSED BY

dude

[sand violet]

right I used a verb that you just used and suddenly im talking about a player?

[silk frost]

YOU SAID FITS

FUCKING FITS

THE WORD

[digital cloud]

can you people take this to dms

[sand violet]

have you passed first grade english clash?

[silk frost]

WHICH HAS 2 MEANINGS

ARE WE CONNECTING THE DOTS YET

[sand violet]

dude stop typing im losing brain cells

[silk frost]

AS TO HOW YOUR PHRASING WAS NOT THE BEST

[sand violet]

sheesh

[digital cloud]

DMs

would be nice

[true hound]

🤣

[digital cloud]

watchu laughing at

[true hound]

whole convo

[kind ridge]

lmao

[green stump]

https://c.tenor.com/pMNC9kFoeg4AAAAM/anime-eating.gif

[digital cloud]

We got some argumentative people here

Still remember the day Saint showed up

We had a lotta arguing that day too

[true hound]

it’s always fun seeing Levy argue

[next mesa]

@true hound shut the fuck up bitch

[true hound]

ily

[next mesa]

Mwah

[raw ermine]

On one hand you could probably determine what he meant by the context after a moment, but on the other hand, how did someone know who illicit is and not know who fits is

[next mesa]

I'd say he's the worse dps player last season

[plush grail]

i love arguing about a esport

avast power ranking is interesting

NA i totally agree, maybe dallas, mayhem and defiant switched around a little

but his APAC ranking

what

[true hound]

genji otp who can’t even play him as well as the other flex dps on his team can lmao

[next mesa]

okay to be fair

it's profit

[silk frost]

You heard it here first, levy thinks adora is better than illicit

[next mesa]

im better than illicit

[sullen berry]

When I grow up

I wanna be saebyeolbe, not illicit

[upper niche]

Bloody ridiculous that Los Angeles, Philadelphia and New York are permitted to not base themselves out of NA :/

[tropic herald]

I’m so confused why Mayhem is so high in everyone’s power rankings

Like yeah they aren’t shit but are they really that good

[earnest leaf]

they retained a solid roster and solid coaching

Oge is the biggest question

But we know what to expect from the rest of the team

[tropic herald]

OGE makes or breaks this team and we had this same question last year

He broke Glads

[earnest leaf]

Glads were having other issues that I don't think were specific to oge

Space said recently that glads in general would have communication problems, and people would go silent in matches, and they wouldn't talk as much as they should

[tropic herald]

Dpei and Space both have confirmed one of, if not the main issue, was OGE and Space synergy was not it

[earnest leaf]

Hopefully oge does well in florida

full korean roster so no more excuses, no weak links either

[tropic herald]

This is his last chance

And I’m not risking it this time, Florida #3 just makes no sense

[earnest leaf]

honestly 3rd place and below is a pia to place for NA

Feels like a lot of the teams can interchange there

well more so 3-6 is really wishy washy

[tropic herald]

Is it really realistic to have Florida sit comfortably above Toronto Justice and Dallas

Like I could understand Justice and Dallas maybe

[earnest leaf]

For dallas I think it's meta defendant

[tropic herald]

But Toronto has a really good coach and their overall roster is good

[earnest leaf]

toronto idk enough about their new players to make a decision, and justice you could argue justice being above

[balmy wolf]

justice has a strong tankline with one super dps and a eh support line

[tropic herald]

The only players I question are Ansoonjae (easily Bc I haven’t watched them) and Michelle

[balmy wolf]

judging new squads is always hard so

mayhem has been consistent with their biggest peak early on in the season

[tropic herald]

I think the fact that justice tank line is insane carries them through like 90% of games

Man now I’m tempted to shuffle around my NA rankings

I just keep looking at Toronto and slowly but surely they’ve been looking better and better to me

[earnest leaf]

I hope sado pops off

[tropic herald]

Haters will say it’s fake

[earnest leaf]

Putting glads above shock is a bit questionable

but I can see the rest of it looking how things go

[tropic herald]

Listen, I might be a little biased but, every role is pretty even and in the ones that aren’t even

Glads take it

[balmy wolf]

we'll see how good they really are in playoffs

[earnest leaf]

tank shock wins pretty handily though

[balmy wolf]

dpei always fails when it matters

[tropic herald]

It also helps that Zarya is looking decent

[earnest leaf]

glads got the better MS atm, and FS viol2t is just built different

[tropic herald]

Idk

I think MuZe Space gonna surprise people

[balmy wolf]

shock are just built diff in playoffs

[tropic herald]

Also I love that no one questions my APAC rankings

[earnest leaf]

seoul is probably too high

but between shd and valiant idk where they all go

[balmy wolf]

dragons is number 1 and u could make a argument for any team in any position

[tropic herald]

Realistically, Seoul should clap

Will they?

Idk they shit the bed every other week

[earnest leaf]

seoul gonna be 50/50 again

[balmy wolf]

yes because i believe apac is the most even region

they can all take games off each other

expect dragons

[tropic herald]

If Seoul just makes sure that Gesture isn’t in on any main tank but Winston and Hog they will be fine

But for whatever reason they really like watching the world burn

[balmy wolf]

they pretty well in the nexus cup

[earnest leaf]

then lost to dallas

[balmy wolf]

still made it to the finals

profit/fits lineup is a nasty dps duo

[tropic herald]

There was a very big team gap in finals

The only parallels in that match was the dps lines

[earnest leaf]

I do see something people forget about when criticizing shock for the upcoming season

I don't see people mention they lost junkbuck and arachne a lot

[tropic herald]

I’ve heard that Junkbuck was pretty integral to Shock

[earnest leaf]

Been said he's a mini crusty

[tropic herald]

Idk much about Archane doe

[balmy wolf]

i dont believe is a massive loss in the end

[tropic herald]

I feel like just Junkbuck isn’t a bad loss

[balmy wolf]

the system crusty place under the team allows him to plug in practically anyone he wants

[tropic herald]

But they lost ANS and Rascal and Moth and gained what?

[earnest leaf]

they did grab agape who was apart of s1 london

[tropic herald]

Wasn’t Agape also on s2 London

[balmy wolf]

crusty didnt even had junkbuck on boston

[earnest leaf]

the people they picked up after losing those 3 are suitable replacements at least

Of course you can never replace those 3 fully

[tropic herald]

It feels like they have duct taped a breach in a ship, idk if it’s going to last

[balmy wolf]

yea but its not a 'oh shit' moment for them, their good enough or maybe even better

[tropic herald]

Anyone got any info on who is going to Justice

[earnest leaf]

Halo said it might be assassin

but he isn't sure

[balmy wolf]

its not libero or rascal

[tropic herald]

That might be good pickup

[earnest leaf]

But shock did retain a solid core

[tropic herald]

That reminds me

[earnest leaf]

Like it's hard for them to not be top 3 at minimum with smurf/choi/viol2t/striker

[tropic herald]

Can Proper turn 18 faster

Yeah, I’m not saying Shock bad but they certainly aren’t dominant this year

[balmy wolf]

thats what we said last year

[tropic herald]

Didn’t people think Atlanta were going to be top of the pack

With NY

[balmy wolf]

yea, and we never could have predicted that same teams were just better

like the dragons

shock gonna stay the same, the gap will be smaller in terms of skill but their still gonna dumpster teams

[earnest leaf]

yea they didn't really widen the gap, but still maintained it a littlew

Or blizz forces a hackfist meta with winston sig and dallas runs rampant

[tropic herald]

Double Bubble for Dallas

That would be Pog

[balmy wolf]

even with philly being their best rival last year, the only ones to really challenge them was paris and even then that was meta dependent

[tropic herald]

Didn’t that have a challenge each cup

They*

[balmy wolf]

mayhem was 1st but they still beat them even tho their comp was technically inferior (ashe/torb)

[earnest leaf]

Countdown cup philly were favorites but shock still won as well

Paris was just playing too well during summer showdown, but even that came down to a single fight

[balmy wolf]

almost won with tracer still even tho genji was better

1st cup was probs their hardest one if u think about

striker had a wrist injury and ans was forced to play and mayhem had figured the tracer/ashe was the superior lineup and still lost in the end

[earnest leaf]

Was ans having mental issues then or later on?

[balmy wolf]

later on

and he was a still a rookie

made some very obvious mistakes

[earnest leaf]

all aim no brain

[balmy wolf]

i think it was until season playoffs where he was at his best

imo tho im putting my stonks on dragons to win the season

i really like how fate has integrated into the roster

[next mesa]

Facts

Same

But I'm seoul fan so 😩 😩

[forest raven]

SE UL

[next mesa]

We are called the dragon killers

Dragon gets in finals we beat them bam easy

[forest raven]

so what does that make shock

the team that actually wins?

[balmy wolf]

Always in contention

But dragons look just a bit better in the dps line

Tho that isnt saying much

[true hound]

the team that won only cause Fits threw EMP 🙄🙄🙄

[forest raven]

keep living in denial

[true hound]

🙄🤚 ukno it’s true

[forest raven]

doubting the inarguable champs

[kindred mortar]

dm me if your a gamer

[cedar oasis]

Dam

It was not libero

[forest raven]

https://twitter.com/washjustice/status/1360967070863753220?s=20

Washington Justice (@washjustice)

✍️📝✅ 👀 https://t.co/BNxl0bwHq2

▶ Play video

Twitter · Feb 14, 2021, 3:00 PM

[cedar oasis]

IT WAS NOT LIBERO

Sadge

[raw ermine]

Halo said it was not likely gonna be him or rascal

[cedar oasis]

my only hope for libero is Toronto now

[next mesa]

Assassin naisu

Lmao

[raw ermine]

https://twitter.com/ggbench/status/1360750805117112323

dave - bench (@ggbench)

overwatch

Likes

279

Twitter · Feb 14, 2021, 12:40 AM

[tropic herald]

That reddit thread was quite something

[forest raven]

[tropic herald]

https://twitter.com/phillyfusionnew/status/1360747159851851776?s=21

Philadelphia Fusion NEWS (@PhillyFusionNEW)

Carpe is the best HS in APAC. Fits and Diem are the only ones who could compare to him.

Twitter · Feb 14, 2021, 12:26 AM

I love finding hilariously bad takes

[cedar oasis]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[karmic grotto]

assassin to justice

ez

[raw ermine]

Mag Fury Decay Assassin Bebe Closer

[cedar oasis]

Lmao what about ttuba

[tropic herald]

I still think Ttuba is a good dps just not someone you want on flex dps like Mei or whatever

[slow kraken]

Tbh carpe is one of the best widows but other players can easily compare tbh

The really only widow who was wild in the owl was ans

[true hound]

ksp and decay

KSP moreso on the Ashe tho

[plush grail]

pine was also nutty

with proper coaching and mental health help

pine would FUCK

[trail perch]

is it a problem if I think justice is top 3 NA now?

I think Bebe and closer would actually be nutty under hocray and chillhwa

[sand violet]

Pine wasn't even nutty he just had highlight plays

Overall as widows he wasn't as good as the top

And no it's not a problem to rate justice, all of the top tier rosters besides shock and Shanghai have holes

Fuel have holes in hero pools with ball/orisa and dps with tracer, glads have holes in their coaching and a non top tier ot, justice have holes in their sup line, etc

[tropic herald]

I trust justice to be good, theyve been scrimming for a while now i believe and all they did was pickup another flex dps, so they must be really confident in their support line

[slow kraken]

There’s no really decisive top 5s this season

[tawdry hamlet]

Diem Imo best widow currently in league

not even based on 1v1 performance, just in general he can come in after weeks of not being used and match or best the best widows

[silk frost]

OH

MY FUCKING

GOD

THE MAD LADS DID IT

[next mesa]

What

[next mesa]

Facts facts

[tight axle]

Is anyone still into libero bc I thought he would've been picked up mega fast

[raw ermine]

It seems a general trend of preferring new younger talent has taken over, rather than veterans

[cedar oasis]

Poor libero

Literally cant get any better then libero

[silk frost]

I mean maybe rascal

And haksal

[cedar oasis]

Like I said you cant get any better then libero

[plush grail]

2 liberos

[silk frost]

Libero squared

[next mesa]

Yeah

Ttuba over libero weird

[sand violet]

not rly

for what justice want

[next mesa]

What do they want

Big Dick energy?

[sand violet]

and libero will prob be a mid season signing

if he doesnt retire

and they just want a super high mechanic flanker player in ttuba

genji tracer echo pharah

libero does some of those but not all

and clearly justice likes ttuba's mechanics on them more

[silk frost]

I mean Libero is a mega monster pharah and genji

[sand violet]

but not nearly as hard as ttuba is on echo tracer

and ttuba is prob a better genji anyways

Not to mention there can be a lot of reasons why teams pass on libero

so I wouldnt be surprised if hes just a mid season signing

[silk frost]

I'm not sure if I agree with that, I think there's an argument Ttuba is a better pharah but Libero is better genji imo

[sand violet]

same as like tobi

[silk frost]

where would tobi go

I say this with tears in my eyes

[sand violet]

Any team that ends up regretting their ms signing mid season lol

like hes not gonna replace moth or funnyastro or something

but there are a lot of ms that could be good or bad this season

if one of them ends up being bad

a team could look at tobi

[silk frost]

I mean NYXL is a prime example now that I think about it

[sand violet]

justice charge nyxl mayhem

are all options like at a minimum

er by options I mean teams with potential to want a dif ms

not that i think justice will

[silk frost]

I have some faith in arachne to get a lot out of Mandu honestly

[sand violet]

still an option regardless