idrc either way
#esports-discussion
humble token
Bring back double flex please
When was ssg vs ence
WHEN
😭
@errant hornet
Was there a b stream😭
weary scarab
When was ssg vs ence
like 3 hours ago g
hybrid hollow
When was ssg vs ence
SSG alr beat ence buddy
Oh when was
Like
It was like just before this one
weary scarab
this is why i always check the schedule the day before 😂
errant hornet
bro ngl
weary scarab
shit started at 18:00
errant hornet
the schedule is like
gambling
shit makes NO sense
its just rng if u have the right time lmfao
errant hornet
womp womp
weary scarab
its in like 3 hours or something right
weary scarab
if racoons play the mauga shit its over
i think ssg have a good chance if cr play dive
weary scarab
wait cr beat falcons
no
weary scarab
yeah falc 3:2
errant hornet
I mean after last match it oculd go either way
wise orbit
obv
errant hornet
its possible falcons win either way tho lowkey because 3 back to back high stakes games leaves a lot of time for falcons to boom a bit
mentally
thats a lot of overwatch to play back to back in the highest stress possible lmfao
wise orbit
this final is going to be crazy
i was sure raccoons would win but this will be a toss up
ssg wont win a single map though unfortunately
humble token
thats a lot of overwatch to play back to back in the highest stress possible lmf...
For raccons ye but at same time its nice practice
wise orbit
cr loses 3-1?
humble token
Idk ssg kinds crushed ence
humble token
cr loses 3-1?
No wins
weary scarab
ssg wont win a single map though unfortunately
ehhh i think they can get one
humble token
And ence crushed toroanto that almost got a map from falcons
weary scarab
if ssg picks havana
hybrid hollow
THE DARK LORD
weary scarab
they win a map
humble token
I mean cr
humble token
PGEE
hybrid hollow
wise orbit
but im rooting for ssg
humble token
but im rooting for ssg
Always root for underdogs
wise orbit
yes
wise orbit
if u dont root for the underdogs unless its your favorite team against them youre a beta
humble token
Agree
humble token
lavish prism
They have the support lite and tank to win
sadly just not the meta comfortability :c
humble token
sadly just not the meta comfortability :c
Rein mets would be ez win
lavish prism
rein seems like a bad choice into mauga genji
humble token
Toronto migth be top 2 on rein meta
lavish prism
but idk
lavish prism
Toronto migth be top 2 on rein meta
huh
hybrid hollow
Why is pge the only one not in uniform
lavish prism
thats hard copium
hybrid hollow
Toronto migth be top 2 on rein meta
Ngl not a hot take
lavish prism
Ngl not a hot take
na top2??? vs all korean teams?
humble token
rein works better for them against mauga than sig
Ye hadi aint vestola
hybrid hollow
PGE DO NOT BRING OUT THE FLEX 💀
humble token
na top2??? vs all korean teams?
The korean tanks cant play rein
hybrid hollow
na top2??? vs all korean teams?
Nah #1 all regions if they drop Vega for me
Actually just best team of all time
lavish prism
copium
humble token
Nah #1 all regions if they drop Vega for me
For who?
wise orbit
how do you guys think ence would do with cloudy in a hard rein meta
humble token
how do you guys think ence would do with cloudy in a hard rein meta
Oh I forgot him, idk they dont have much experince with him
hybrid hollow
Trolling aside if ssg takes a map I sleep happily
lavish prism
Nah #1 all regions if they drop Vega for me
yes the region with only 2 good players, who are both the same role c:
hybrid hollow
yes the region with only 2 good players, who are both the same role c:
Yeah but they have me
wise orbit
cuz cloudy mostly plays ranked but he has played in pro matches before
humble token
Would like to see some seicoe venture
humble token
cuz cloudy mostly plays ranked but he has played in pro matches before
Yes
lavish prism
Yeah but they have me
youre obviously too expensive for TD
hybrid hollow
Yeah this region is ass
lavish prism
like without pelican td literally is the only decent ish team
humble token
Cr does have as good venture play as falcons
lavish prism
Cr does have as good venture play as falcons
what?
wise orbit
why does NA have so little local talent
humble token
why does NA have so little local talent
Eveyone in na playing valorant it seems
lavish prism
entire region can only produce bap players c:
hybrid hollow
wait no they lose map 1 gg
wise orbit
does NA dominate valorant?
glass sleet
Cmon. Stop making SSG play this map! 😭
lavish prism
wait these comps actually look fun
lavish prism
does NA dominate valorant?
not even really
wise orbit
i dont follow valorant esports at all
humble token
does NA dominate valorant?
Idk just guess
lavish prism
nobody so far afaik
humble token
What about fortnite
hybrid hollow
Other games don't tend to have such dominant regions like ow
hybrid hollow
What about fortnite
Same thing
lavish prism
Who dominates
eu and na are similar level in val
lavish prism
Other games don't tend to have such dominant regions like ow
they absolutely do
wise orbit
i guess north america just doesn't have a strong esports culture unlike eu and korea
hybrid hollow
No region dominates
hybrid hollow
Well yeah cs
humble token
Na are bots ig
wise orbit
but all the big creators are in na so its weird imo
weary scarab
i dont play val but i always hear my friend laughing at this guy called el diablo
hybrid hollow
I can't think of a game where a single region is just that ahead like Korea is for ow
lavish prism
i dont play val but i always hear my friend laughing at this guy called el diabl...
afaik that guy is washed af now
wise orbit
maybe NA can turn a new leaf on marvel rivals LOL
lavish prism
I can't think of a game where a single region is just that ahead like Korea is f...
starcraft
hybrid hollow
Astro is the goat
humble token
I can't think of a game where a single region is just that ahead like Korea is f...
LOL maybe
??
Idk
lavish prism
you said game not fps c:
weary scarab
ball is just unbeatable on this map
hybrid hollow
I meant other fps
Right here
lavish prism
after all its not like western players never won OW tournaments before
wise orbit
yep last time i followed cs esports EU dominated
weary scarab
lmao junbin is smiling
humble token
The best way to beat ball is to go cass sombra hog ana brig
hybrid hollow
map diff fr
weary scarab
like cr getting to pick this map is just unfair
hybrid hollow
Let's just remove BPs freedom of speech
lavish prism
Let's just remove BPs freedom of speech
i have never seen a person be so consistently so wrong
like tf
hybrid hollow
like cr getting to pick this map is just unfair
It wasn't a pick the koth is random I believe
glass sleet
Yeah it’s really not good that SSG keeps getting illois for their koth map
weary scarab
It wasn't a pick the koth is random I believe
wait really?
hybrid hollow
Yeah koth has been random every other series
humble token
like cr getting to pick this map is just unfair
Not really spacestation got knocked in the lower bracket before them
glass sleet
It wasn't a pick the koth is random I believe
No, higher seed picks koth in lower bracket
hybrid hollow
oh
humble token
It wasn't a pick the koth is random I believe
What?
hybrid hollow
Nvm then
hybrid hollow
ah ok
wise orbit
6v6 is defintely better for coordinated overwatch but idk if i would want 6v6 in owcs because theres already too much to keep up with lol
glass sleet
6v6 is boring and bad for the game never bring it up ever again
uncut drum
that hinder
uncut drum
and then pulse
hybrid hollow
I miss 6v6 pro play bc more players the better fr
Plus maybe players like void would still be around
wise orbit
i hope i didnt start a 6v6 vs 5v5 debate now
lavish prism
i just miss tank duos ngl
hybrid hollow
Yeah
lavish prism
and dislike counterswapmeta on tank
weary scarab
seicoe is afking on the tracer
snow juniper
i hope i didnt start a 6v6 vs 5v5 debate now
What did you expect? 😅
lavish prism
if they somehow fix counterswapping i would really love 5v5
wise orbit
What did you expect? 😅
:p
lavish prism
i unironically havnt had a doom game where enemies didnt swap to hog sombra in the last week
and ive been keeping track
weary scarab
heesang going crazy
lavish prism
every single game
weary scarab
bro
snow juniper
Oof for SSG...
glass sleet
Havana
lavish prism
goat desk
snow juniper
I'm cheering for SSG here, but that looked though 😳
hybrid hollow
wait wheres pge gone
Food
weary scarab
ball is the only fun tank rn
glass sleet
Yea
lavish prism
ball is the only fun tank rn
all dive tanks are
humble token
ball is the only fun tank rn
Based
hybrid hollow
They probably wanna get the whole team on at some point
lavish prism
unless you get counterswapped
glass sleet
ball is the only fun tank rn
Not fun to play against
lavish prism
which you always do
the problem with tank is all fun tanks are so prone to being counterswapped
humble token
all dive tanks are
Nah bro hammy is thick😩
lavish prism
and it happens every game
weary scarab
all dive tanks are
nah bro im giga sweating on winst. on ball i just chill and still do value
errant hornet
Not fun to play against
rather ball than mauga lmfao
glass sleet
No
errant hornet
bro what
weary scarab
like u can just get deleted on winston
errant hornet
ball has so many more layers and interesting gameplay and outplay
lavish prism
nah bro im giga sweating on winst. on ball i just chill and still do value
everytime i play ball/doom enemies end up on hog/cas/sombra
errant hornet
than fucking mauga
lavish prism
everysingle time
hybrid hollow
Jake carrying lol
glass sleet
Unless you counter swap the fuck out of ball, he never dies.
humble token
Not fun to play against
Yes lol there is a lot of ways to outplay ball
lavish prism
playing tank in comp is so miserable
wise orbit
i havent played ranked in a while but before all the changes to ball i could mostly ignore him and go for enemy backline
errant hornet
his voice does not match his body bro im ngl
errant hornet
he looks like puberty skipped him
humble token
Just facts
errant hornet
Ball best designed tank in the game
nah winton
errant hornet
winton and jq solo
wise orbit
rein and winston
errant hornet
I fw jq majorly
static pond
he looks like puberty skipped him
lol i was thinking tht to
humble token
nah winton
Ball is better bro balls is so much hotter than winston
errant hornet
ngl I would rather fuck a giant gorilla than a fucking hamster
so
ill base it off that
wise orbit
tbh everytime rein is viable the game is more fun
lavish prism
ngl I would rather fuck a giant gorilla than a fucking hamster
that is so screenshotable
humble token
tbh everytime rein is viable the game is more fun
Goats
wise orbit
goats was fun
errant hornet
I think the rein shit has some rose tinted glasses
errant hornet
goats was selectively fun sure
lavish prism
went on for too long
lavish prism
once people figured out goats more it was miserable
humble token
goats was fun for the first month
Agree but was cancer after
wise orbit
i think a good measure for how well designed a tank is is how much the character affects the game positively or negatively when they are good
lavish prism
Agree but was cancer after
yeah
errant hornet
its prob the least healthy meta possible since dps literally aren't existing
wise orbit
so mauga and hog are trash design
lavish prism
most miserable meta was 2 years of double shield cuz they didnt nerf bap though
wise orbit
and rein and winston are top tier
lavish prism
orisa sig wasnt even the cause
errant hornet
sure but like winston tends to be more healthy than winston
errant hornet
most miserable meta was 2 years of double shield cuz they didnt nerf bap though
eh idk about that
lavish prism
blizz just dislikes actually nerfing what causes the meta
lavish prism
eh idk about that
immo is what kept double shield viable for so long
errant hornet
problem was the tank cds refreshing off eachother was just busted itself
humble token
orisa sig wasnt even the cause
No it was how broken bap and sig was i fully agree
lavish prism
sig was less broken once he got giga nerfed back to back to back
still very good
but bap was the glue
errant hornet
immo is what kept double shield viable for so long
I mean bap was apart of it but early on it was easily the tanks, and brig double shield went in and out of meta as well
lavish prism
of double shield
lavish prism
I mean bap was apart of it but early on it was easily the tanks, and brig double...
ye ofc, in the end it was bap though
and they refused to nerf him
errant hornet
I mean the thing is that its just impossible to balance bap sigma orisa all being in hte same game at once unless you make one of them literally useless
wise orbit
I think the rein shit has some rose tinted glasses
nobody is saying rein meta fixes the game, but playing with and against a rein feels so much better than many other tanks
errant hornet
but the problem then is that then u can only play one with hte other
lavish prism
I mean the thing is that its just impossible to balance bap sigma orisa all bein...
idk with new orisa it could work
ngl
static pond
Twitter
errant hornet
so sure u can nerf bap but bap also hardcore enabled rein brawl comps
static pond
There pge
lavish prism
the problem is generalist heroes in general
humble token
I mean the thing is that its just impossible to balance bap sigma orisa all bein...
Nah just need to change how imortality works
errant hornet
idk with new orisa it could work
yeah but new orisa could just as easily enable different aids
errant hornet
Nah just need to change how imortality works
how do you change it hten
lavish prism
heroes like kiri, bap, soj, ram, sig, heroes that can just do everything
no real weaknesses
its stupid
errant hornet
because it wasn't just imo, the huge aoe healing and even window are big contributing factors that helped keep double shield meta
humble token
how do you change it hten
Make it damag3 reduction instead
lavish prism
at least the newest few have some weaknesses
lavish prism
but generalist heroes with no weaknesses are just bad for the game imo
errant hornet
it would make bap mb a bit worse for double shield and brawl but still the same pick
and imo would still work better with two shields and a corner
humble token
its realistically the same effect if its dmg reduction
30% dmg reduction is not the same
lavish prism
im so sick of those 2 heroes
errant hornet
if anything dive might be better but u also kinda gut brawl comps
lavish prism
bap and kiri are both just too good ever since they came out
errant hornet
30% dmg reduction is not the same
same effect as in u use bap in hte same places with hte same heroes
if u nerf bap like that u also hard nerf rein comps in ow1
wise orbit
tbh one of my biggest problem with 5v5 is how much tougher it is to have tank specialists now
errant hornet
is hte reality
humble token
same effect as in u use bap in hte same places with hte same heroes
Yea but it wont be broken
lavish prism
tbh one of my biggest problem with 5v5 is how much tougher it is to have tank sp...
when i play tank and wanna win i just play the H button
lavish prism
i dont even play a specific hero
wise orbit
when i play tank and wanna win i just play the H button
its either this or only generalist tanks
errant hornet
but I dont think you fix the double shield issue with that change
lavish prism
its either this or only generalist tanks
both is just ass
errant hornet
tbh one of my biggest problem with 5v5 is how much tougher it is to have tank sp...
I dont think thats a problem
at all
humble token
I dont think imo in 5v5 is broken but 6v6 sure
Even in 5v5 it would be balanced
lavish prism
but I dont think you fix the double shield issue with that change
keep current orisa, and make sig weaker, nerf tanks across the board, 6v6 viable
errant hornet
I think its in a relatvively fine spot
wise orbit
I dont think thats a problem
its not the end of the world but you lose a lot of different playstyles
errant hornet
keep current orisa, and make sig weaker, nerf tanks across the board, 6v6 viable
not rly
wise orbit
but it might be worth it if it makes the game healthier
lavish prism
tanks currently are either unkillable or insta dead depending on how hard you counter them
errant hornet
6v6 wasnt just an issue because of the comps but it was a factor fs
errant hornet
its not the end of the world but you lose a lot of different playstyles
kind of?
tanks are still very varried
wise orbit
no you defintely do
lavish prism
idk my only gripe with 5v5 is that tank feels miserable to play
humble token
In 5v5 tho u need supports to have broken abbilites other wise the tanks will just die lol
lavish prism
like holy
errant hornet
but I think some of the otps and shti of ow1 being harder to make work is good for the game
wise orbit
if they become more generalists you lose unique playstyles
lavish prism
i genuienly preffered running offmeta into double shield than playing tank right now
errant hornet
In 5v5 tho u need supports to have broken abbilites other wise the tanks will ju...
yeah but u also have less damage in the game overall and more open angles to force said abilities
it goes both ways
in 6v6 the problem is that even if u nerf these abilities that then in turn hard nerfs the tank combos themselves
hard nerfing bap imo also hurts rein comps as well
humble token
yeah but u also have less damage in the game overall and more open angles to for...
Wym less dmg like the hp increase??
errant hornet
if anything u jsut create a dive only meta at that point
errant hornet
Wym less dmg like the hp increase??
less damage because of one less tank
thats a big deal
a lot of damage is lost that way
lavish prism
the question is how do you fix tank in 5v5
errant hornet
on both teams
wise orbit
i havent played much ball but ive heard he had more freedom to play like a disruptor tank in ow1
lavish prism
cuz blizz wont go back
wise orbit
for example
lavish prism
and currently tank feels miserable
still
no matter how much they change tank, its just counterpick meta
errant hornet
I think tank can be fine but its dependent on two things
lavish prism
in comp
dreamy cave
This is over
humble token
less damage because of one less tank
Yes but all the dmg get spammed on rank
glass sleet
Idk dude. I don’t think you can play rein into mauga
dreamy cave
The diff is insane
lavish prism
one is the tank meta itself
in 5v5 comp meta will always be hardcountering enemy tank
errant hornet
in 5v5 comp meta will always be hardcountering enemy tank
exept when its not
lavish prism
when wasnt it?
lavish prism
mauga meta? where mauga was forced?
errant hornet
sigma meta
glass sleet
Hadi goes mauga
errant hornet
and its not that different from 6v6, in 6v6 u had virtually no flexibility because certain comps were way too broken to go anything else
humble token
Idk dude. I don’t think you can play rein into mauga
Yeah ik but hadi is not vestola
lavish prism
im not even talking about 6v6
errant hornet
in 5v5 you have some tanks sometimes but generally you have more flexibility in comps
lavish prism
im just asking how to fix tank rn
dreamy cave
Pack em up
lavish prism
cuz tank rn feels miserable
weary scarab
bro wtf
lavish prism
to play as
dreamy cave
They can't hang
weary scarab
i thought ssg would stomp this map
errant hornet
as for how to fix it I think tis a mix of taking some heroes out to the farm so to say
so mauga, hog, orisa
these heroes make tank actually terrible to play
lavish prism
whenever you do good on tank usually 3+ people counterswap you immediatly
lavish prism
as for how to fix it I think tis a mix of taking some heroes out to the farm so ...
the problem isnt just othet tanks
also dps
and sups
errant hornet
other tanks like winston, zarya, doom, even dva arent nearly the issue
dps as well
yes
lavish prism
playing tank you will be counterpicked
weary scarab
this map is just a huge dps and tank diff
lavish prism
and forced to swap
humble token
whenever you do good on tank usually 3+ people counterswap you immediatly
Avreage ball experince
lavish prism
game upon game upon game
errant hornet
imo anti tank dps should just not be in the game at this point
lavish prism
Avreage ball experince
literally every single tank
errant hornet
and the other part that isnt talked about is the maps themselves
dreamy cave
Pack em up
dense dune
no matter what
cough hybrid cough
humble token
imo anti tank dps should just not be in the game at this point
I do agree on that one but reaper can stay cuz he sucks
dense dune
unless 
lavish prism
like unironically how does one fix tank nowadays
errant hornet
but I think its doable just blizz needs to be willing to rework a lot of things
lavish prism
tank players are just cooked
i was watching a friend of mine thats new to the game and they even counterpick in silver nowadays
errant hornet
the other problem is how the community plays for hte average player
wise orbit
if you want tanks with varied playstyles 6v6 is better
errant hornet
ngl like counterpicking is super fucking overrated but because its the more consistently easy thing to do ppl do it
lavish prism
the other problem is how the community plays for hte average player
counterswapping just is the norm nowadays
errant hornet
if you want tanks with varied playstyles 6v6 is better
not rly cause 6v6 was just months of very little swapping and just one dominant comp
humble token
ngl like counterpicking is super fucking overrated but because its the more cons...
Its not overrated it does work a lot of the time
errant hornet
once the 6v6 meta was found there was literally no changing it most the time
wise orbit
not rly cause 6v6 was just months of very little swapping and just one dominant ...
bad balancing
lavish prism
how do you disensentivise counterswapping in 5v5 btw?
humble token
However you wont get better as a player
lavish prism
cuz currently counterswapping is all people do
errant hornet
bad balancing
I mean sure but is the balancing much better in 5v5?
errant hornet
its a hard game to balance
dreamy cave
Their boomed
humble token
Hot take 5v5 bad balance>6v6 bad balance
errant hornet
the reality is that in 6v6 when u stack u support and tank cds correctly it becomes really hard to balance out these broken comps
without making some heroes basically dogshit
arctic parcel
are the finals finals happening rn? like the matches
wise orbit
Hot take 5v5 bad balance>6v6 bad balance
yea i kinda agree
lavish prism
i mean 6v6 wont happen
dense dune
are the finals finals happening rn? like the matches
not yet.
lavish prism
so there needs to be a way to make tanking in 5v5 fun
dense dune
rn its loser's finals
errant hornet
i mean 6v6 wont happen
this is also true
wise orbit
6v6 needs a really good balancing team
wise orbit
double shield was worse than mauga
lavish prism
this is also true
so the question is how tf do you make 5v5 tanking fun
errant hornet
I prefer 5v5 but realistically it doesn't matter because 6v6 is never happening
errant hornet
so the question is how tf do you make 5v5 tanking fun
as I said I would start at reworking/ nerfing the anti tank shit to the ground
at least the low skill high reward stuff
lavish prism
i made a doom otp acc to pick him up, i havent had a single game where enemies didnt pick sombra
not a single one
out of 20
wise orbit
I prefer 5v5 but realistically it doesn't matter because 6v6 is never happening
yep theres pros and cons and i think different players have it better and worse in 6v6
humble token
yea i kinda agree
And since blizzard has 10 iq good balance wont happen hence it is better we have 5v5
weary talon
Rework the tank tank buster specialists
errant hornet
I think hero bans could possibly help? being able to get rid of heroes like kiri could help as well
weary talon
And we gucci
wise orbit
i personally preferred 6v6 as a main tank with an off tank duo
lavish prism
I think hero bans could possibly help? being able to get rid of heroes like kiri...
that will just force a specific meta again
though
wise orbit
most fun ive ever had in ow
lavish prism
not fun either
wise orbit
but I get the 5v5 fans as well
errant hornet
that will just force a specific meta again
uh not rly
cause if u have different bans per game generally per map
u get different interesting comps imo
humble token
I think hero bans could possibly help? being able to get rid of heroes like kiri...
Kiri needs to exist
errant hornet
I think if they implemented a hero protection phase it could work
weary talon
Hero bans are wack
humble token
So tank survives
errant hornet
like 1 ban per role but before that u get one protected hero per role
humble token
And no please no hero bans
errant hornet
I think could help
dreamy cave
London can't hang
lavish prism
literally
errant hornet
nah I fw hero bans I think they should try it
weary talon
Remember that time they banned hitscans so everybody was playing pharmercy in owl for a 2 weeks
humble token
One tricks will get rolled
wise orbit
And since blizzard has 10 iq good balance wont happen hence it is better we have...
good balance 6v6>good balance 5v5 though
errant hornet
One tricks will get rolled
idc
dont onetrick
I think hero bans are better for the game overall
imho
lavish prism
I think hero bans are better for the game overall
how do you wanna implement them into comp though
static pond
imo ya
wise orbit
people said season 9 was best season for ow2 and it was still rocks papers scissors tank
humble token
good balance 6v6>good balance 5v5 though
I agree but good 6v6 balance only happend like twice in ow1 lifespan
lavish prism
also hero bans will enforce private profiles
lavish prism
people said season 9 was best season for ow2 and it was still rocks papers sciss...
tank was still miserable
xd
as always
wise orbit
yep
errant hornet
how do you wanna implement them into comp though
do something like league, before you load into hte map, both teams are anonymous on the screen and basically both teams protect a few heroes and then ban one per role
in my mind
lavish prism
league you cant swap heroes though
lavish prism
oh 2 hitscans are banned? welp, phara enforced
wise orbit
good 6v6 balance was at least better for the tank experience
errant hornet
for scrim and competitive its different
lavish prism
better pharah wins
wise orbit
thats not even arguable
stray quarry
errant hornet
better pharah wins
then u can ban pharah or protect a hitscan
idk
u can make it work
lavish prism
do something like league, before you load into hte map, both teams are anonymous...
so protect phara mercy, ban hitscans
errant hornet
yes but both teams can protect and ban
lavish prism
or ban ana, protect hog
errant hornet
and like there are how many hitscan in the game?
lavish prism
sounds like fun gameplay
errant hornet
its not doomed immediatly
lavish prism
and like there are how many hitscan in the game?
that can actually kill phara? like 2
dreamy cave
^^^^^^^
errant hornet
tbh I think hog would be banned more than ana lmfao
wise orbit
best argument for 5v5 is queue times in my opinion
errant hornet
that can actually kill phara? like 2
id say like 3
wise orbit
im not having 30 minute dps queues again
errant hornet
it just depends which hitscan are relevant
humble token
Imo u should have a limted amount of swaps you can make in a game
humble token
To like 2 swaps
errant hornet
can all contest a pharah
lavish prism
Imo u should have a limted amount of swaps you can make in a game
so the people who run out of swaps first are counterswapped then lose?
errant hornet
yeah idk about limiting swaps
lavish prism
oh you ran out on hog but were on mauga, we win cuz we can swap more often!
errant hornet
swapping itself isnt hte issue imo
errant hornet
the problem is that they need to reduce the power of the counterswapping and/or nerf the hard anti tank heroes and abilities
stray quarry
my goat
lavish prism
not soldier but cass, ashe, soj even
yes but that also relies on having someone in the enemy team thats really really good on those
errant hornet
thats at LEAST a start
humble token
so the people who run out of swaps first are counterswapped then lose?
Did not think of tht nvm then
errant hornet
yes but that also relies on having someone in the enemy team thats really really...
well in that case the bans dont matter if ur team isnt good at hitscan
lavish prism
bans wont work in ow imo
wise orbit
the problem is that they need to reduce the power of the counterswapping and/or ...
that'll come at the cost of unique playstyles for tank
curse of 5v5
errant hornet
and tbh I dont know many players that can play like only one hitscan aside fom mb cass
errant hornet
that'll come at the cost of unique playstyles for tank
not rly
lavish prism
well in that case the bans dont matter if ur team isnt good at hitscan
lots more people can kill phamercy on widow/cas than they can on soldier
wise orbit
yes it will
errant hornet
and I think some of the 'unique' playstyles are inherently unhealthy since ow1
hog has never been healthy
mauga never could be healthy
orisa never has been healthy
etc
wise orbit
yep thats a good point
lavish prism
and bans wont fix tank counterswapping either
errant hornet
unique ktis sure but none u want
lavish prism
at most make it so there arent any counters for a tank and force both tanks on that
wise orbit
it might be worth losing unique playstyles if its healthier for the game
lavish prism
it can help allieviate it
how will it though?
by just having people lock the tank with the least counters?
errant hornet
because u can force out some of the more cancer heroes for a tank matchup
say u get a winston map and ban hog
idk
lavish prism
we play the tank where the counters are banned, and counter the enemy tank!
wise orbit
blizzard is not scared of ripping the identity of their characters for the overall health of the game
lavish prism
forces mirrors
errant hornet
im not saying its 100% a perfect idea but I think its worth experimenting on
lavish prism
they are doing that in faceit
wise orbit
and idk if thats good or not but it is what it is
errant hornet
blizzard is not scared of ripping the identity of their characters for the overa...
yeah but tbh im ok with that
wise orbit
yeah but tbh im ok with that
yea idk either
errant hornet
as is
humble token
it might be worth losing unique playstyles if its healthier for the game
You can still have unique playstyles even wheb counterswaping heros gets nerfed
lavish prism
theres heroes that should never be hard meta
errant hornet
there are plenty of unique hero identities that are fine as is or just need some balance tuning
lavish prism
mauga hog orisa, mei sym torb bastion, brig zen
errant hornet
some are either just goofy niche only heroes and ought to be that way
errant hornet
or heroes that are actiively unhealthy
errant hornet
sym tps are interesting for competitive and I think the more glass cannon approach is fine
full meta sure but I dont think we will get a full meta sym
errant hornet
when I think of heroes that should never be meta I mean literally never be picked in pro
like mauga
orisa
lavish prism
currently they are fine for example
errant hornet
moira
lavish prism
moira is fine imo
errant hornet
aside from like a few extreme niches
errant hornet
moira is just boring low skill design
if shes stronger than other supports its a problem
imo
lavish prism
yeah sure
errant hornet
same with lw
lavish prism
but i dont really mind her
wise orbit
You can still have unique playstyles even wheb counterswaping heros gets nerfed
u can minimize counterswapping a bit without removing unique playstyles, but it'll always be relevant unless they go 6v6 or full generalist tanks
lavish prism
idk i just dont see a way where tanking in 5v5 wont be miserable
its just so easy to counter a single tank
errant hornet
I mean people have always not liked tanking
its always been the least popular role
humble token
I dont mind her as much as other heroes but shes objectively bad design
Nah good for new players imo and ppl knew to fpc
Fps
lavish prism
tanking used to be fun
static pond
idk i just dont see a way where tanking in 5v5 wont be miserable
make every tank a real threat up close
errant hornet
its funny to look back with rose tinted glasses but 6v6 players weren't always big tank fans either
wdym
lavish prism
before role q
errant hornet
esp during double shield
lavish prism
people were forced on sup more than on tank before role q
dreamy cave
Their getting mauled alive
humble token
make every tank a real threat up close
Like mauga
errant hornet
sure but with role q
wise orbit
I mean people have always not liked tanking
i think tank could be as popular as support if tank wasnt miserable for like 90% of ow existance
lavish prism
and then need to force someone on the second sup
static pond
Like mauga
rein
lavish prism
sure but with role q
roleq got introduced cuz the game meta was ass
errant hornet
I can understand if u liked tank more in 6v6 but it could sometimes be worse
static pond
roleq got introduced cuz the game meta was ass
goated was gaoted
errant hornet
say u get a rein map and u get a hog
like gg go next
one tricks could easily ruin tank
wise orbit
there were patches in ow1 when queue times were reasonable
humble token
I prefer role que
lavish prism
say u get a rein map and u get a hog
still happens
oh circuit but we play rein in comp?
ggs
errant hornet
sure but in ow1 thats worse
weary scarab
sparkr?
errant hornet
because if u are playing tank the game is not playable
in 5v5 GENERALLY the maps are open enough that dps and supports can do more individually
lavish prism
yeah but tank currently doesnt feel playable anyway
errant hornet
id rather play with a hog otp now than like a year ago
lavish prism
yeah my pov is as tank
lavish prism
as i said, i made a doom otp acc to pick him up
errant hornet
and can have fun
lavish prism
i havent had a game where i wasnt against sombra on the account yet
errant hornet
aside from that im fine
humble token
Damn spskr
lavish prism
but the second hog, mauga, or orisa are locked in
tank counterswaps arent the issue for me
i just dislike that whenever i do well
3+ people insta counterswap me
and i dont have fun
anymore
humble token
Winable ssg common
errant hornet
well the problem is that I can outplay sombra, ana, etc
esp on like a winston
its more one of two things
lavish prism
on winston your issue are heroes like reaper and bastion
errant hornet
even if enemy throws for it or goes dogshit heroes the "focus tank" playstyle is p common esp when heroes like bastion aren;t throw picks
lavish prism
- like a zen brig sup line
humble token
OH LANODN
glass sleet
lip’s tracer, ladies and gentlemen.
lavish prism
even if enemy throws for it or goes dogshit heroes the "focus tank" playstyle is...
you might win, but it wont be fun if enemies counterswap you so hard theyre shit
errant hornet
just makes it impossible to access anything
errant hornet
you might win, but it wont be fun if enemies counterswap you so hard theyre shit
sure but thats nothing new
tbh
lavish prism
like how do you wanna play monkey into hog, bastion, cass, zen brig?
errant hornet
in both games its not fun to play winston even with a dva if enemy is bastion sombra or some bs
lavish prism
i had those matchups before
dreamy cave
Yo their doing it
errant hornet
I mean sombra is easier to deal with now than before tbh
lavish prism
sure? but the problem isnt just the sombra
humble token
NOOO
errant hornet
ah fuck this map is close
lavish prism
its that they have sombra, cass, ana, and i need to play 5x as well as their tank to win
weary scarab
man why didnt cr loose that
lavish prism
or even to have fun
weary scarab
i wouldve of got all my preds right all day
wise orbit
they can still lose
lavish prism
im suprised CR isnt just forcing mauga tbh
wise orbit
junbin doom is scary
lavish prism
sadly mauga is meta :c
wise orbit
the meta is rly open imo
weary scarab
i think ssg got this
weary scarab
LMAO
wise orbit
he choked
humble token
shu to goof
weary scarab
seicoe giga throwe
hybrid hollow
noooo
wise orbit
kevster would've had that 😎
weary talon
Shuuuuuu
hybrid hollow
The one chance
errant hornet
shu played that so well
weary talon
Shuuuuuuuuuu
errant hornet
tragic
uncut drum
that sleep
glass sleet
Damn they would’ve won that if Seicoe got his kill
wise orbit
these koreans they're just built diiiferent 😎
weary talon
Absolute goat
vale cobalt
@wise orbit ence could do better vs raccon
wise orbit
i agree
glass sleet
Who waves like that?
vale cobalt
imagine sigma battle
dreamy cave
hybrid hollow
<@274201626183467008> ence could do better vs raccon
Unfortunately not true
vale cobalt
@hybrid hollow fk u and ur "not true" comments lol
wise orbit
cr 3-0 against ssg
my first correct pred today lets go
lavish prism
it is not true though
hybrid hollow
I mean it just isn't true
humble token
Cant watch grand finals bruh goodbye
wise orbit
not true ence is just a worse team 🤓
vale cobalt
💀💀💀💀
dreamy cave
Ense has Kai. They were never going to make it far
hybrid hollow
Ense has Kai. They were never going to make it far
Fortunately true
wise orbit
masaa is good
vale cobalt
@dreamy cave true
hybrid hollow
Let's hate on Kai fr
vale cobalt
@wise orbit too old
hybrid hollow
masaa is good
Good at being mid
wise orbit
also ghost's first lan he has potential
hybrid hollow
His bones cracking
wise orbit
old finnish man dunks on best NA team
hybrid hollow
Unpopular opinion, but massa isn't that bad
He isn't he's just mid
lavish prism
compared to astro?
vale cobalt
IMA BE HONEST. NO ONE EXCEPT FOR VESTOLA PERFORMED GOOD
peace 😎
wheres kevster kai gjost masaa
dreamy cave
compared to astro?
All lucio
vale cobalt
wheres kevster kai gjost masaa
nowhere to be seen
hybrid hollow
If we're comparing masaa to every main support rn
He's super mid
like he just about gets the job done
lavish prism
hes better than the NA guys, worse than everyone else basically
wise orbit
masaa may b unc but he dunks on all your favorite main supports
hybrid hollow
masaa may b unc but he dunks on all your favorite main supports
Not true
dreamy cave
To every lucio player on lucio
wise orbit
not true 🤓
hybrid hollow
My favorite Lucio rn is astro and my favorite Lucio all time is moth so
lavish prism
so much ENCE copium in here today
hybrid hollow
masaa just isn't him
lavish prism
masaa is the definition of mid
wise orbit
ermm can masaa even play brig, bro is not beating the lucio otp allegations 🤓
lavish prism
ermm can masaa even play brig, bro is not beating the lucio otp allegations 🤓
washed lucio otp allegations
hybrid hollow
Masaa is unfortunately on that FD tier now
You must accept the truth
His own league of mid
hybrid hollow
unfortunately not true
lavish prism
only vestola showed up today
vale cobalt
chiyo is so bad
lavish prism
but vestola is a sig otp
wise orbit
bror masaa wasnt him today
ja jag vet men jag måste stötta honom ändå
lavish prism
so rip
hybrid hollow
chiyo is lowkey boosted chorong better
vale cobalt
@hybrid hollow idc about ur opinion
hybrid hollow
washed moth better than all of them tho
weary scarab
but vestola is a sig otp
bro vestolas diva, mauga, sigma is way better then hadis
dreamy cave
I'm not coping. I'm just saying he's not that bad. I think ense needs to let kai go for another dps player. Be kai is below mid asf and only looks good on one. Character and that's ONLY looks
hybrid hollow
bro vestolas diva, mauga, sigma is way better then hadis
Then why didn't he play mauga lol
weary scarab
only thing hadi has is the winston, rein
vale cobalt
hot take: KICK KEVSTER KAI AND RECRUIT COOKIE084 AND PHI
vale cobalt
recruit dolla
wise orbit
what?
hybrid hollow
Skill diff
wise orbit
That rein beat his sig tho
did we watch the same hold on midtown LOL
hybrid hollow
Tell vestola deepen his hero pool next time
hybrid hollow
did we watch the same hold on midtown LOL
nah they lost the series so it doesn't matter
vale cobalt
@wise orbit kevin säger han spelar ej om kai å han spelar tillsammans
hybrid hollow
HADI MY BELOVED. Hadi honestly has saved my life, everything from his manner, his rather charming laugh, and his witty words I knew just from first sight, I was in love. I've never fully admitted my love for this beautiful chad. But, my time has come that I must come to terms with my identity. I am more than just a Hadi simp. This is the first time I have ever felt true love towards something. With my whole heart, I can admit that Hadi means the world to me.
static pond
I'm not coping. I'm just saying he's not that bad. I think ense needs to let kai...
propect
wise orbit
<@274201626183467008> kevin säger han spelar ej om kai å han spelar tillsammans
påriktigt?
vart har du läst
vale cobalt
it was a package
weary scarab
tm should kick vigilante, and recruit kev
vale cobalt
i know from cloudy
wise orbit
oh he said it on stream?
vale cobalt
why do u think someone as garbage as kai spelar för ence lool
cookie084 is better
phi good
weary scarab
<@274201626183467008> kevin säger han spelar ej om kai å han spelar tillsammans
fr?
on twitte ror
vale cobalt
cloudy said
dreamy cave
I would drag linkser ( old valiant hitscan) out of retirement to play instead of kai
vale cobalt
GUYS OTHERWISE WHY WOULD U PUT KAI IN LIKE XD
WHEN U HAVE COOKIE084 WHY PICK KAI OTHERWISE
hybrid hollow
Astro on desk the aura is leaking
vale cobalt
cookie played with team finland
wise orbit
GUYS OTHERWISE WHY WOULD U PUT KAI IN LIKE XD
oh he said he wouldnt play unless kai plays with him?
vale cobalt
yes
wise orbit
hm
vale cobalt
det finns en spelare som heter cookie084 han är eu best sojourn
weary scarab
def not best
vale cobalt
spelade med team finland
dreamy cave
Then screw them both fr. Kai isn't enough and kev can't carry him
lavish prism
english pls?
vale cobalt
@dreamy cave fk em
vale cobalt
@lavish prism RECRUIT COOKIE084 AND PHI
wise orbit
vi också har mera god dps spelare
another swede
hazy marsh
no, finn
wise orbit
ohhh
vale cobalt
recruit dolla
hazy marsh
born to speak english forced to learn swedish
weary scarab
i feel bad for the english speakers lol
hazy marsh
why so?
wise orbit
haha otherwise we would be 5 swedish speakers here regularly
vale cobalt
@hazy marsh looool
wise orbit
i feel bad for the english speakers lol
xD
static pond
why is he shiny
dreamy cave
Chengdu Hunters dps would be better than kai kev
vale cobalt
tank vestola cloudy chase
dps phi dannedd cookie084
support dolla masa ghost
ultimate team
and get a proper coach
hybrid hollow
Chengdu Hunters dps would be better than kai kev
Leave Jinmu?
wise orbit
tank vestola cloudy chase
dps phi dannedd cookie084
support dolla masa ghost
no kev?
vale cobalt
OR WAIT
dreamy cave
Yeah leave jinmu
vale cobalt
CRISPY INSTEAD OF DOLLA
hybrid hollow
ofc leave Jinmu is better
wise orbit
dafaq
vale cobalt
what did crusty say?
dreamy cave
Jinmu is crazy on phara. Image him now with phara change
hybrid hollow
Nah not Jimmu
You must not know Jinmu next to leave gets a +50 boost
vale cobalt
imissed crusty interview
errant hornet
You must not know Jinmu next to leave gets a +50 boost
Or you could just
Idk
Not have jinmu
hybrid hollow
imissed crusty interview
"me happy we win we win more let's win"
Summarized it for you
vale cobalt
xd
hybrid hollow
Not have jinmu
But who's gonna bring the fun
dreamy cave
Jinmu when equipped with leave gets a +60 to all stats
hybrid hollow
Very true
errant hornet
But who's gonna bring the fun
Ok jinmu is more funny but
If u want funny get jimmy
hybrid hollow
Echo, hanzo, I think 76, junkrat, mei
No pls keep Jinmu on pharah
vale cobalt
howdy
hybrid hollow
if Jinmu isn't on pharah he's actually a negative asset 💀
hybrid hollow
jimmy indeeds fucks
vale cobalt
jimmy chated with cloudy in voice today
was duoing with shy
then avoided him
🤣
was so funny
hybrid hollow
did he avoid Jimmy or did Jimmy avoid cloudy
vale cobalt
jimmy avoid
dreamy cave
hybrid hollow
Ofc the rein guy was throwing his games
vale cobalt
but they were having a fun ans positivr conversation
errant hornet
I get it
vale cobalt
jimmy backstabbed him