is there a person?
#lore-discussion
worthy rose
worthy rose
how is mercy able to revie the dead
cosmic crest
She can't
dense crescent
nothing in the actual game itself is canon if i recall correctly, just the interactions? so i don’t think she actually can
cosmic crest
Bit of an exaggeration. But yes, things seen in the game aren't strictly cannon.
dense crescent
i’ve never had a good look at it but i think they mean when echo glows when she ults and how the person mercy is reviving glows as well
not sure how it’s strange, but i believe that’s what they mean
worthy rose
yah
tacit nest
I honestly hope OW2 expands on the backstories of a lot more characters
worthy rose
same
limpid agate
@dense crescent There is no magic in Overwatch. Also, when people say the game isn't canon, they are talking about the gameplay.
A lot of the kits are canon
dense crescent
i was joking about the magic lmao. and that's what i was talking about. i just didnt word it right. sorry ^^;
limpid agate
Don't joke about that.
Lots of people actually do believe there is magic in Overwatch
Usually citing exactly Mercy as an example.
Hanzo and Reaper come up too for that
dense crescent
my bad. wont do that again ^^
nocturne fog
Yeah the whole dragon
peak escarp
it's not magic
nocturne fog
We still dont know how that works
worthy rose
well we dont know that its not magic
nocturne fog
Its some sort of spiritual energy like we saw in the dragons cinimatic
peak escarp
well we dont know that its not magic
we do know it's not magic
nocturne fog
When hanzo summoned it from his arm, and genji controlled it
peak escarp
the writer said "there's no magic in Overwatch"
nocturne fog
And the line only a shimada can control the dragon
peak escarp
it's some form of technology
nocturne fog
Meaning its some shimada specific energy
peak escarp
Meaning its some shimada specific energy
or Hanzo was just being dramatic
dense crescent
it may seem like magic to us but overwatch is set in the future. just like how a phone might seem like magic for someone from the 60's
nocturne fog
Yeah thats true, but we dont know his character to be that extra
Most of his voicelines are very blunt
peak escarp
Hanzo shaved the sides of his head and got piercings - he's very extra
worthy rose
how could it be not magic
limpid agate
It isn't
worthy rose
how could it be not magic
peak escarp
Hanzo also sneaks into a castle occupied by enemies on the same day every year to honor the brother he thought he killed
worthy rose
i get that is not magic but it also not tec
peak escarp
how could it be not magic
it could be hard light
worthy rose
it could be
nocturne fog
If its tech, then anyone who has the tech owuld be able to use it right?
worthy rose
but it looks and works diffent
nocturne fog
And since hanzo was a higher up in the shimada family before he left, he would know
worthy rose
than hard light
limpid agate
But that's tech
Its tech that can exclusively be used by Tracer.
Can anyone use Reaper's wraith form? No, but that's tech.
nocturne fog
But those are cures to conditions tracer and reaper suffer from
limpid agate
Its not exclusive to Reaper, but it is limited to people Moira worked on
Its not a cure to his condition
It is his condition
nocturne fog
But there is no condition for every shimada
limpid agate
Source
peak escarp
we only have Hanzo's statement saying the dragons can only be used by the Shimada
nocturne fog
yeah
peak escarp
I doubt he even knows how they work
nocturne fog
if it was like an implant he would know
limpid agate
If it was an implant
That only the Shimadas get
Then, "the dragons can only be used by the Shimada"
nocturne fog
But in that case who makes the implants?
and would it be impossible for a non shimada to get one?
peak escarp
the Shimada family would have people who make them
limpid agate
Probably made in house like the rest of their stuff.
peak escarp
who are contractually obligated to only work for the Shimada
limpid agate
They had swordsmiths and trainers in house.
nocturne fog
Then when the shimadas where taken over, does the new family learn about the implant?
Im blanking on names rn
nocturne fog
We need more lore
nocturne fog
But then we would learn more about the ability
Something like if its a techinque or a machine
limpid agate
That tiger is also conjecture.
We don't know what the Hashimoto's logo or symbol is.
peak escarp
I don't think we'll ever learn how the dragons work
limpid agate
But:
- There is a Tiger's Den bar on the map
- Tigers are the opposite of Dragons
nocturne fog
Also just for record, we do know that the dragons are called "spirit dragons"
peak escarp
Also just for record, we do know that the dragons are called "spirit dragons"
Mercy's ability is called "resurrect" but it doesn't actually resurrect anyone
limpid agate
And Mercy is called Ressurect
peak escarp
names are just names
nocturne fog
But her move isnt really cannon
nocturne fog
The move is called dragonstrike
worthy rose
ok i get it but
limpid agate
nocturne fog
It is described as summoning spirit dragons
peak escarp
McCree's flashbang doesn't really work like a flashbang
worthy rose
it at lest some what spitertal
nocturne fog
But he does throw a flashbang...
limpid agate
It is exactly 0% spiritual
nocturne fog
They just dont flashbang people in game
dense crescent
"resurrect" is probably named that because of the angel theme. same as mccree's flashbang. it's not an actual flashbang
worthy rose
HOW THE HECK CAN IT BE NOT SPIRITUAL
nocturne fog
Not as an abillity name
nocturne fog
Thats like saying athenas not the greek goddess wow
The name of a character versus the description of an abillity
limpid agate
Bear in mind, Spirit Dragon is also capitalized.
nocturne fog
is it?
peak escarp
"Spirit Dragons" is the ability name
limpid agate
The ability is Dragonstrike
nocturne fog
Dragonstrike*
peak escarp
I mean like how McCree's weapon is named Peacekeeper
their weapon is called Spirit Dragons
nocturne fog
it also says "a" spirit dragon
limpid agate
"Summons"
peak escarp
"summons" is just a fancy way of saying deploy/launch
worthy rose
those are chines dragons
worthy rose
no chines
nocturne fog
The shimada family is japanese
peak escarp
an image of a dragon is not a real dragon
nocturne fog
We'll see what the dragons are if we get a better explaination for them
limpid agate
@worthy rose Knock it off.
limpid agate
If you're coming in here to be disruptive, you're going to get muted.
worthy rose
what
limpid agate
They're not the same thing.
nocturne fog
thats disruptive
dense crescent
dragons are a big part of both chinese and japanese culture and history. they're slightly different from both cultures, but they're both dragons
nocturne fog
So which culture does the spirit dragons more closely ressemble?
limpid agate
Japanese.
nocturne fog
And do we have any info on the origon of the spirit dragons?
limpid agate
No
nocturne fog
Like did the shimadas use them to gain power in the first place?
limpid agate
All we can say is that they're only a few decades old.
Overwatch is only 60 years in the future.
That tech doesn't exist for us today (2016), so it doesn't exist in Overwatch 60 years ago.
nocturne fog
I think ow2 will have alot of the info about dragons in the genji and hanzo hero missions
worthy rose
i hope so
nocturne fog
Not the story missions, the hero missions
peak escarp
the hero missions won't have much lore
nocturne fog
The ones specifically focused on the characters and what their doing
worthy rose
thats why i said i hope so
peak escarp
but why would they include lore about the dragons?
it's probably not something they discuss with outsiders
nocturne fog
Because its a big part of genji and hanzo as characters
Especially bc they are prob going to be together
Like at the end of dragons
peak escarp
at the end of Dragons Genji and Hanzo separated
nocturne fog
didnt it end with them staring at the sky or am i just dumb
peak escarp
Genji disappeared in a cloud of smoke ninja-style and Hanzo walked back into the castle to continue his memorial
iron plume
har har
peak escarp
why
worthy rose
Talon should be named “Crazy People Corporation”
Ye the moment they started hurting people, which is probably from the very start, their validity went out the window
And they’re all Crazy
Sigma is straight up insane
Reaper got fucked over
Doomfist believes that the world has to elove through war
peak escarp
Ye the moment they started hurting people, which is probably from the very start...
of course they hurt people, they're terrorists
nimble furnace
Fr though the organization is just people wanting money and people wanting war, many wanting war for money. Pretty easy to figure out who's the "bad guys" there.
worthy rose
Ye
arctic loom
peak escarp
the designs were great
disappointed they weren't lore-based, but they still looked good
worn island
well i mean, nothing would change about archive skins in ow2.
The whole event is about the past and ow2 expands on the future of the story
There was something about them revising the events for ow2 wasn't there?
opaque tundra
im more concerned about new character interactions
worn island
how so?
peak escarp
There was something about them revising the events for ow2 wasn't there?
yes, they said some events will get replaced
worn island
will be interesting
peak escarp
Archives is the most likely to get replaced, since they're done telling the story they wanted to tell
nimble furnace
Also since these kinds of missions won't feel event worthy since they seem like they'll be commonplace in OW2
scarlet apex
And do we have any info on the origon of the spirit dragons?
there's a few theories on how it uses nanites and hard-light technology
scarlet apex
it's very comic book-style good guys vs badguys
ngl OW would make bank as a book series
peak escarp
good news, it is
scarlet apex
like a political thriller about Jack Morrison hunting down Talon operatives in the style of the Mitch Rapp novels
median frigate
A movie would also be sick
glass pelican
peak escarp
!!shitposting @slim crater
twilit nacelleBOT
@slim crater Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
peak escarp
NSFW is not allowed
worthy rose
^
silver oriole
They've hit the point with Archives skins where they've used all they've thought of that's lore-based and are now just using history.
Yay!
(Not really...)
peak escarp
or they just felt like doing something else
silver oriole
Maybe
Man, I'm so hyped for Deadlock Rebels.
Maybe we'll find out how McCree lost his arm in an epilogue or something?
peak escarp
I don't expect it to be mentioned
although I would like to know the story behind his tattoo
limpid agate
It is not allowed. If you have a complaint about the rules, dm @sullen pagoda . Consider this your final warning.
worthy rose
i rly need a movie about widow maker or sigma
limpid agate
Sigma isn't relevant.
Widow is, and she got one already.
Alive: http://bit.ly/1PSJV5x
worthy rose
Sigma isn't relevant.
Sigma is relevant to me ; ~ ;
limpid agate
He is not an important character
worthy rose
He's an important character to me :v
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
worthy rose
i mean
a real movie
not with real people just overwatch style
but in the theaters
and sigma is fucking interesting
limpid agate
It doesnt matter if he is interesting.
He's one of the least important characters in the game.
limpid agate
She is a very important character. Probably the only core Talon member that isn't explicitly a villain.
worthy rose
rly
limpid agate
She will be in Overwatch 2. We know she is part of Talon's siege in India.
limpid agate
So
worthy rose
do u want a talon movie?
limpid agate
There will be one in OW2.
Toronto, Rio de Janeiro, Monaco, Gothenburg, India, Rome, and New York City are the maps we know are coming so far
Toronto and Rome are Push
Monaco is payload
NYC is hybrid
Gothenburg WAS 2CP, but they're changing that. There will be in 2CP in OW2.
worthy rose
There will be 2CP?
obtuse star
yes
brave ravine
Apologies if this is slightly off-topic, but it seemed like the best channel to ask.
For the animated shorts, do you recommend release order or chronological order?
worthy rose
I'd say chronological order!
brave ravine
cool, thank you!
worthy rose
finite urchin
He's one of the least important characters in the game.
i disagree, sigma's currently the strongest canon hero
plus, if you've seen those tall null sectors woman with long hair that suck you in
lemme search it up
pullers
ah yes, the pullers
peak escarp
i disagree, sigma's currently the strongest canon hero
so? that doesn't make him important
finite urchin
i was saying before that talon is using sigma's research
and the pullers definitely manipulate gravity
maybe it's made bc of sigma's research?
finite urchin
so? that doesn't make him important
you should wait until someone's done talking
peak escarp
your argument still doesn't make him an important character
finite urchin
how so? he's now probably the guy responsible for the bulk of null sector (maybe talon's) forces
and that doesn't make him an important character?
peak escarp
you don't credit the inventor of gunpowder for winning wars
peak escarp
just because they use his technology doesn't mean he's super important
finite urchin
is torbjorn credited for creating bastions?
peak escarp
he's still a background character
finite urchin
well then is mina liao important to the lore?
what has mina done?
she has invented omnics right?
and echo
so you're saying basically
lemme get this straight
inventions don't matter
then that means mina liao is a background character
peak escarp
she is
peak escarp
she's also dead
finite urchin
alright but your previous statements implied that sigma had little significance to the lore
peak escarp
we don't even know if Null Sector is using Sigma's tech, which I find unlikely considering they hate humans and probably wouldn't want to use something made by them
finite urchin
sure, he's a background character
so we need to call him a minor but influential character
finite urchin
we don't even know if Null Sector is using Sigma's tech, which I find unlikely c...
uhhh then why would they team up with talon????
finite urchin
I said he wasn't important
isn't that basically the same thing
peak escarp
it's not
finite urchin
ok first answer the first question
peak escarp
characters can be significant to the lore and yet not be important to the story, like Dr. Liao
finite urchin
why would they team up with an organization, founded by humans, run by humans
why would they care to associate with doomfist
finite urchin
characters can be significant to the lore and yet not be important to the story,...
then word it better, i thought you meant he wasnt important to the lore
finite urchin
we don't even know if Null Sector is using Sigma's tech, which I find unlikely c...
why would null sector team up with talon then?
i think it's safe to assume the pullers were made with sigma's tech
peak escarp
it's not safe to assume anything
I would guess that Null Sector is teaming up with Talon because Talon has power and influence
finite urchin
so? you basically just admitted that null sector can tolerate some humans
are you wrong on your previous statement?
peak escarp
it was an opinion
finite urchin
okay if that's your personal opinion then sure
but still though, null sector using sigma's research isn't completely out of the question
after all, who do we know has been researching on gravity for talon
there is only one person
and every character in overwatch has at least one role
in the plot
if they're not gonna make his research important
then what would they do with sigma?
peak escarp
keep him him in a lab and save him for later
finite urchin
sigma is goat
finite urchin
keep him him in a lab and save him for later
so you mean that they aren't gonna use sigma's research despite it being cryptically stated that talon uses sigma's research for their own affairs
worthy rose
peak escarp
we don't know what force the pullers use - if it's gravity, sure, maybe Sigma made it
worthy rose
If u mess with sig you gotta deal with his crew
peak escarp
but it could be some other technobabble that isn't gravity-based
finite urchin
but it could be some other technobabble that isn't gravity-based
that's entirely possible in the world of overwatch
but i just mean that, they gotta do something with him
finite urchin
keep him him in a lab and save him for later
if they're gonna do this, do you mean he will fight later on?
peak escarp
and like I said, being the inventor of the puller's ability wouldn't make him important to the story - he would still be a background character
he's not taking an active part in the story
finite urchin
but see
by your statement
he will be saved for later
so if his research isnt gonna be used
peak escarp
he could be an active participant in a future storyline
peak escarp
just not the Null Sector arc
finite urchin
doesnt that mean it's likely he'll be important to the story?
finite urchin
so what's he gonna do in his appearance
peak escarp
it's a whole criminal organization
peak escarp
Baptiste will be important to the story
finite urchin
uh...but we're talking about the heroes not the pve soldiers???
finite urchin
isnt it fairly obvious that those enemies will have little significance to the plot??????
worthy rose
I think sigma will be in the story mode
peak escarp
every hero is unique
worthy rose
we know there are other gravity-oriented scientists in OW's universe
peak escarp
not every hero is important to the story
finite urchin
you're saying that sigma will be a common enemy?????
finite urchin
we know there are other gravity-oriented scientists in OW's universe
sigma is currently the strongest canon
iron plume
no one is saying that
worthy rose
"strongest scientist"
bruh
peak escarp
Sigma is potentially the strongest in canon
we haven't seen what he can actually do, or whether he can control his powers to the degree he does in the game
cosmic crest
There is a level of subjectivity to who is the "strongest" hero in lore.
iron plume
Because there's no evidence so far that he is
finite urchin
but doctor six stated that sigma will make an appearance
iron plume
The story we currently know is Overwatch fighting Null Sector
finite urchin
so what is sigma gonna do then in his appearance?
peak escarp
you still havent stated why sigma will not likely be important to the story
because the writers have said that he is being kept locked in a lab and lied to, so it's very unlikely that he will make an appearance in the story
finite urchin
but
finite urchin
why would any of us know
can we assume that it will be significant?
peak escarp
but doctor six stated that sigma will make an appearance
I did not say that
iron plume
can we assume that it will be significant?
We cannot
worthy rose
can we assume that it will be significant?
no, we can't and shouldn't assume anything
lmao
finite urchin
he could be an active participant in a future storyline
??????????????????
peak escarp
??????????????????
"could be" and "future storyline"
worthy rose
the stuff we have evidence of there being in the game... are what's in the game
iron plume
Abscence of evidence isn't evidence of abscence
But from what we know about ow2 so far
Sigma isn't featured
peak escarp
that does not mean I think he will make an appearance for sure in this storyline
worthy rose
You 100% cannot fill any holes you see with "well can we assume" - that's not how stuff works
iron plume
If you do assume, assume he's not
finite urchin
So you guys are saying that it’s reasonable that sigma will not do anything significant???
iron plume
We don't know that he will
peak escarp
I don't expect Sigma, Hanzo, Ashe, Junkrat, Roadhog or Wrecking Ball to have an appearance in the Null Sector arc of the story
finite urchin
he could be an active participant in a future storyline
Uhh????
iron plume
The only thing Doc said is that he may make an appearance, in another story arc, a lot of time after release
peak escarp
what part aren't you understanding?
iron plume
Where are you getting "he will participate in the Null Sector arc" from
peak escarp
you need to read what I actually said
finite urchin
Where are you getting "he will participate in the Null Sector arc" from
Wtffff??? My argument was that he will be significant if he makes an appearance
finite urchin
from the evidence we have yes it's reasonable to assume that.
U think it’s unlikely that a guy with superpowers will be insignificant in his appearance?
worthy rose
U think it’s unlikely that a guy with superpowers will be insignificant in his a...
???
iron plume
It's overwatch, half the roster has superpowers
finite urchin
But Doc didn't say he would make an appearance
Okay ill admit i misread that bc i had to argue with 5 ppl at the same time
finite urchin
It's overwatch, half the roster has superpowers
No? Half the roster had guns
And pretty much all superpower ppl have significance
iron plume
There's only four including you in this chat right now
and the "arguing" was all three of us telling you you misread it
Also please disable pings when you reply
finite urchin
There's only four including you in this chat right now
and the "arguing" was all...
The argument was against my point
Okay
finite urchin
i didn't say anything otherwise
Mistype
Read it again
Alright let’s assume that he doesnt do anything significant
worthy rose
Read it again
you've once again misread what my point was lol
finite urchin
So blizzard just three away a very interesting hero
worthy rose
?????
peak escarp
they're not throwing him away
finite urchin
you've once again misread what my point was lol
Then restate your point?
peak escarp
they're saving him for later, like I said
worthy rose
guy please, stop going to the absolute extreme of either side.
finite urchin
they're saving him for later, like I said
Okay...
peak escarp
not every hero will be important in the Null Sector storyline - the devs have already said this
they're trying to include as many as they can, but some just won't be included
finite urchin
I agree he probably wont do anything in the storyline
But i think he’ll be important to the plot
Bc of his research
Whatever i’ll just leave it as it is
Since we went over that
Already
peak escarp
he will be as important as Dr. Liao
finite urchin
Right
peak escarp
I never understood why people are so obsessed with "who is the strongest"
cosmic crest
Because it's fun.
It's largely subjective though.
And not particularly important to the lore.
I think it's obvious some heroes are stronger than others in universe though.
peak escarp
I guess
silver oriole
I never understood why people are so obsessed with "who is the strongest"
It's part of every fanbase.
Just kinda fun to hypothesize about who'd win in a fight.
I think it's only a problem when it's taken too seriously and people get mad.
Like, chill.
peak escarp
I just see it as a pointless argument based on subjective criteria that has no bearing on the lore
silver oriole
It's only an argument when it's made into one.
:P
Anywho
I have yet to play Archives, so I want to know, is there any good lore nuggets in there?
Cutscenes, cool interactions, what?
peak escarp
turn on subtitles so you can catch the interactions
silver oriole
I always have subtitles on.
peak escarp
there's some good stuff in there
silver oriole
Aight
Are the missions long?
I hope they are.
I know they have challenge modes to be replayable.
peak escarp
Uprising is light on banter, Retribution is mostly Reyes and McCree bickering, and Storm Rising gives us the most actual information
silver oriole
Okay
peak escarp
Are the missions long?
I hope they are.
they're a decent length
silver oriole
Uprising is King's Row, right?
Retribution is Blackwatch in Italy or something?
And Storm Rising is what?
silver oriole
they're a decent length
About how long would you say on average?
peak escarp
Storm Rising is Overwatch chasing Maximilien through Havana, Cuba
terse oar
Uprising and Storm Rising are about 10-13 minutes
peak escarp
yeah
silver oriole
Storm Rising is Overwatch chasing Maximilien through Havana, Cuba
Okay
terse oar
Retribution can be about 15-20
silver oriole
Uprising and Storm Rising are about 10-13 minutes
That's a good bit.
And if you replay them a bunch(I know for a fact I will), it'll be fun.
peak escarp
you hear more dialogue the more you play them, so it's worth doing a few times
peak escarp
yeah
pastel dust
!!shitposting @unique walrus
pastel dust
lol it didn't work anyway. Save that stuff for the general or something, not lore.
unique walrus
Yeah but it’s part of his lore. Like how he become a robot ninja :D
iron plume
It's not lore, and NSFW isn't allowed on the server
obtuse star
@unique walrus PM is correct. None of that here please.
worthy rose
Hi
cursive arrow
ok, I have realized in the Overwatch cinematic short "dragons", the spirit dragon comes from his arm into the arrow, you can tell that his arm is not made of technology so the dragon being a hologram is probably not possible
hanzo sry
forgot his name
limpid agate
ok, I have realized in the Overwatch cinematic short "dragons", the spirit drago...
Tattoos are an application of technology. We have multiple different tattoo technologies both in Overwatch and in the real world
In Overwatch, there's the Los Muertos with their light tattoos that brighten darkness.
In the real world, we have tattoos that can be used to monitor your health (such as insulin levels for diabetics) or tattoos that can be interactive with app media or as data storage.
cursive arrow
Tattoos are an application of technology. We have multiple different tattoo tech...
fair point
I thought that it would be like sigma, how he absorbed the power of the black hole on the international space station. but at birth, with the spirit dragons. idk just a theory
cursive arrow
Tattoos are an application of technology. We have multiple different tattoo tech...
oh yeah, how could a tattoo store that much energy?
then again how can an arrow store that much energy
limpid agate
What
Sigma wasn't born with his gravitic powers
Genji/Hanzo were not born with tattoos
peak escarp
remember, Overwatch is science fiction - things don't have to work according to the real world
analog blade
is overwatch lore good
peak escarp
yes
nimble furnace
It's subjective but personally I think it's good just underdeveloped
The story is great but there are so many gaps and it comes in a very, very slow drip
finite urchin
The story is great but there are so many gaps and it comes in a very, very slow ...
it's meant to be a game, not a story, so in the end, they're just gonna establish a lore and say "this stuff is happening" but not actually doing anything, if that makes sense
finite urchin
oh yeah, how could a tattoo store that much energy?
headcanon:
tattoos are a conduit for the power
the real energy lies inside the weapons
hanzo has glowing arrows
genji with his glowing sword
plus, the reason why hanzo says only a true shimada can do that shit blah blah
it's stated that there are ppl who can control hard light in ways that others cant
the dragons could be hard light
for hanzo he fires pure energy with hard light
for genji he sharpens his blade with laser or smth
or
peak escarp
Blizzard has had decades of experience developing long-form stories through their games
there's no rush to get everything out all at once
drowsy violet
World of warcraft cough
peak escarp
a prime example
silver oriole
WoW has been out longer than I've been alive, I think.
I know my mum used to play it back in around 2010 when we lived in Germany.
I would like to maybe get into it, but the play style seems eh to me.
Anyways
I have a question
peak escarp
yes?
silver oriole
So, if Reyes was McCree's mentor, why is it that, like, McCree argues with him so much in Retribution.
I understand McCree thinks killing Antonio is wrong, but he's very disrespectful to Reyes.
Does this happen after McCree has been in Blackwatch for a while?
peak escarp
McCree had been in Blackwatch for about 12 years by that point
silver oriole
DANG
iron plume
Does this happen after McCree has been in Blackwatch for a while?
It happens around the very end of overwatch
silver oriole
That's a lot longer than I'd thought; I'd thought five, at the most.
iron plume
and the reaction makes sense to me
The more you respect someone the more angering it is when they lose it
peak escarp
they have a close relationship, to the point where McCree feels comfortable openly criticizing him and Reyes doesn't punish him for it
iron plume
Especially since Reyes was this thorough planner and tactician, which McCree appreciated
silver oriole
I think it's weird how Genji doesn't talk much during that mission.
peak escarp
this action was completely out of character for Reyes, so McCree is understandably upset
silver oriole
Genji, at the time, had yet to make peace with his body, right?
peak escarp
yes
iron plume
Yes
peak escarp
he's still in his angry phase
silver oriole
So he's not the zen-master he is.
iron plume
He did that only leaving Overwatch
silver oriole
I'd expect him to lash out at either Reyes or McCree for bickering.
iron plume
but Blackwatch was especially unpleasant for him
silver oriole
Wait, why especially?
iron plume
He's opened up a bit when he joined the regular strike team
peak escarp
Blackwatch probably reminded him of his family, who were also assassins
iron plume
as we see in Storm Rising
but still wasn't fully his new at-peace self
silver oriole
Blackwatch probably reminded him of his family, who were also assassins
Ah
iron plume
That and I think no one cared much about him other than doing his job
So that's what he did
Do his job and shut up
silver oriole
He's opened up a bit when he joined the regular strike team
He still seems angry.
He even seems to hint at torturing Maxmillian, when (I think it is Tracer) asks, "How do we know he'll talk?"
He says, "He'll talk."
iron plume
yes
peak escarp
in Storm Rising, he has a finished body and friendlier allies, so naturally his mood would improve
iron plume
He still hadn't found peace at that point
peak escarp
He still seems angry.
He even seems to hint at torturing Maxmillian, when (I thi...
that's the way Blackwatch did things
iron plume
but at least his surroundings were a little healthier
silver oriole
Alright
peak escarp
my theory is that Genji's path to wellness is cut short when he loses the fight to Doomfist 3 weeks later, and that causes his body dysphoria comes back with a vengeance
maybe he blamed his body for the defeat
iron plume
"I got this fucking robot body and it's not even good at fighting"
peak escarp
"This robot body sucks, it's holding me back"
finite urchin
He still seems angry.
He even seems to hint at torturing Maxmillian, when (I thi...
ok, but im not sure if robots can feel pain
and how they're going to torture a hunk of steel if they do
silver oriole
The Omnics can feel pain, I think.
iron plume
They sure can feel distressed
silver oriole
Pain is really our nerves telling us, "Yo, don't do that my guy!"
finite urchin
oh riiiiiiiight
silver oriole
Take away all he's worked for.
iron plume
You know there's torture methods that don't even involve physical violence right
peak escarp
omnics can still be killed
silver oriole
Psychological.
finite urchin
yes psychological torture exists but the main method is physical
peak escarp
and Maximilien has things he would rather not lose, I'm sure
iron plume
it really isn't
finite urchin
well ok maybe not the main method
but when you hear the word torture
ill bet the first thing you think of is physical torture at least
not psychological
iron plume
good thing I can think of a second thing then
finite urchin
sure ig
oh yeah and you said smth about removing parts
maybe in this world, omnics have transplants made of valuable material on semi useless parts
just like how humans have grills
peak escarp
even just threatening to take away his assets - Max seems very attached to his money
he's also a coward
finite urchin
and rappers like uzi have that stupid diamond on his head
maximillien has those golden things on his neck
yeah he is
peak escarp
it wouldn't be hard to pressure him into making a deal - he was ready to talk the instant they cornered him
finite urchin
yeah
peak escarp
I don't think he really likes Doomfist anyway
finite urchin
those golden, what do you call them
bolts?
knobs?
idk well max has gold stuff on his neck
finite urchin
I don't think he really likes Doomfist anyway
no shit pretty much everyone in talon's focused on themselves
peak escarp
Reaper and Doomfist seem to get along
the other Talon council members at least respect him enough to follow his lead
iron plume
Maximillien seems like he's down for any leader as long as they don't fuck with the money
finite urchin
yes...the other talon council members do respect him enough, but it's mostly out of fear, you saw what they did once he was put in the slammer
peak escarp
we also saw Maximilien having reservations about their new war - he may not have a spine, but he might have a heart
finite urchin
i never said everyone was disloyal to doomfist, but pretty sure most of them are, and the ones who are loyal benefit themselves in some way by following doomfist
reaper's motives are still unknown
besides hunting down overwatch members
but i doubt that's all he wants to do
iron plume
They're not blindly loyal
But from what we've seen, their motives align with his
I'm sure Doomfist knows that, too
peak escarp
we don't know Reaper's motive behind killing Overwatch members
finite urchin
They're not blindly loyal
But from what we've seen, their motives align with his
well that dude doomfist threw down a building became the leader after he was jailed
and that guy didn't seem to be so strong
yet ppl accepted him as the leader
iron plume
I'm talking about the present ones
iron plume
Maxi might have preferred Vialli but he's not gonna raise shit
because, coward
peak escarp
Widow is there because they let her kill (and I doubt they'd let her leave anyway)
finite urchin
Widow is there because they let her kill (and I doubt they'd let her leave anywa...
widow is there because she's been brainwashed.
iron plume
She's not brainwashed.
iron plume
Her conditioning made her feel things only when she kills
finite urchin
so she was conditioned
peak escarp
it's closer to how you train a dog to not do something you dont want it to do
iron plume
see here because I can't be arsed retyping it
finite urchin
that's bull and ur not changing my mind she's brainwashed
iron plume
Feel free to stay wrong
peak escarp
it literally says she was conditioned in her bio
finite urchin
i think that's the same thing...
iron plume
It isn't
iron plume
and even if it was "brainwashing", in your own words it's not "the first thing that comes to mind when you hear that word"
peak escarp
Talon operatives kidnapped her and subjected her to an intense program of neural reconditioning. They broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent.
iron plume
Brainwashing, in media, consists of a) replacing a person's personality and identity
b) making them mindlessly follow commands of a superior
Neither is the case with Widowmaker
finite urchin
a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
iron plume
That hasn't been done to Widow either
finite urchin
Yes?
peak escarp
nothing has been changed about her beliefs
peak escarp
she doesn't kill because she thinks it's right or she thinks that Talon is good
finite urchin
Talon is best
peak escarp
she kills because it makes her feel good
iron plume
Do you know what those words actually mean or do you just keep repeating them
finite urchin
Do you know what those words actually mean or do you just keep repeating them
What words?
iron plume
Contrasting regimented ideas
this
finite urchin
Yeah i searched it up on merriam webster
And i quoted it
What the hell is confusing about that
iron plume
Again
Do you actually know what "regimented ideas" means here
peak escarp
Widowmaker's experience doesn't fit the dictionary definition of brainwashing
iron plume
Neither does it fit the media trope
peak escarp
her ideology has not been altered
she has been physiologically altered so that killing is the only thing that gives her pleasure
finite urchin
Again
Do you actually know what "regimented ideas" means here
Yeah like established ideas?
Idk
Im still in middle school
iron plume
so, no
"regimented" in here means they're deliberately controlled by the people doing the brainwashing
We have seen no evidence of Widow's conditioning having that
finite urchin
Whatever you call it conditioning aight? I’ll just stick with brainwashing
finite urchin
*The game* calls it conditioning
70% of ppl online refer to it as brainwashing
iron plume
70% of people online also think Mercy created Reaper
peak escarp
70% of people online are wrong
iron plume
and that Mei is secretly evil
finite urchin
70% of people online also think Mercy created Reaper
That was before we got the lore
finite urchin
and that Mei is secretly evil
In game she’s evil
finite urchin
And no she isn't
Yeah she is dude do you know how frustrating it is to be frozen and icicle headshotted
Okay
iron plume
Not any more frustrating than a lot of the other bullshit
But gameplay is beside the point
peak escarp
that's the players fault, not Mei's
iron plume
Her character, in game, is not evil
finite urchin
Her game design is evil
worthy rose
whats lore?
finite urchin
But symmetra’s worse ig
finite urchin
whats lore?
History of overwatch
worthy rose
oh
iron plume
whats lore?
Characters, story, worldbuilding
worthy rose
thx
silver oriole
70% of people online also think Mercy created Reaper
i-
Please be joking.
PLEASE
silver oriole
whats lore?
The story.
For this chat, it's Overwatch's story.
magic perch
70% of people online also think Mercy created Reaper
There is no fucking way... I mean maybe she could've given him his abilities via surgery, but that would be VERY unlikely, and to say that sh... created him? What the heck do they even mean? 
chilly perch
all of that "mercy created reaper" thing is back when the lore was little and it was based off of an interaction between mercy and reaper, so can't blame the ow community back then
fresh flint
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the story
Robots and humans go to war
peace happens
humans love robots
bad robots decided to not make that peace happen and win against the humans
war happens again and started at London
overwatch gets in and fight the bad robots
overwatch wins
overwatch decided to split
overwatch came back together because there is a new bad people called talon
Who made Talon is a bad robot right?
fresh flint
!lore
raven sequoia
I'm not 100% sure how it happened but pretty much like that
There's obviously more
fresh flint
Is there a command for that
raven sequoia
Major details
fresh flint
Ik
raven sequoia
Is there a command for that
I don't believe so
fresh flint
I wanna know who tf made talon and why
raven sequoia
Really?
worthy rose
I don't remember if Talon's thing is they believe that humanity can advance best through strife and conflict or if that's just Doomfist's personal stance
fresh flint
I think its just doomfist
Sombra isn't that bad
Or moira
Moira just wants science to advance
Moira is cool
worthy rose
Sombra is real bad
fresh flint
How
worthy rose
She's up to evil shit that even Talon doesn't know about. In the short where she's introduced she literally sabotaged a Talon mission just to get what she wants. She's a whole nother kinda bad guy
fresh flint
Well talon isn't good either 😕
I haven't seen sombra kill anyone or do bad things
Well hacking is bad but
Not really immoral
Doesn't make her that bad
Depends on what that hacking gonna result into
tulip walrus
Not really immoral
shes blackmailing russia
i mean its implyed that mcree and sombra have met
had a few drinks and stuff
yeah she is
she warns him about how talon is looking for him
tulip walrus
i mean
yea
ok lets just be honest
95% of the OW roster is p hot
anyways back on track
Sombra is only working with talon for her own gains
she wants to know who REALLY controls everything
meanwhile Reaper and Widow joined in spite of OW
And moria joined to further her research into her life force stuff
sigma is just fuged
legit
the only person hostile to sombra is tracer
and D.va
but D.va is just like a misunderstanding
yea lol
but tracer tho
"wont be a problem is you just disappear forever"
like
holy shit tracer
and for sigma
its just like
oh wait that right the chanal never updated sigma stuff
well from the parts we can here
hear*
hes just haveing nice convos
and offering to help otheres
also being a little cheeki
lmao
peak escarp
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the story
>Robots and humans go to war
>pea...
Overwatch didn't "decide to split", they got shut down due to corruption
but aside from that, you're more or less right
also Talon has been around since before Overwatch fell
fresh flint
makes sense
tulip walrus
also with there main goal being fulfilled for the time being
everybody said it was time to shut down
thanks gabe
finite urchin
https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Talon#:~:text=Formerly%20known%20as%20Gabriel%...
Okay but those designs are not canon
nimble furnace
Wish they were they look so much better than the ones in retribution
Imo that concept art is fire
raven sequoia
Okay but those designs are not canon
Ik but the info is
peak escarp
also with there main goal being fulfilled for the time being
their main goal?
Overwatch's main goal was to maintain international peace and fight threats as they arose - that's not a goal that ever ends
Overwatch shut down because they were being investigated for corruption by the UN, and three of their leaders were presumed dead
a military doesn't just disband because there isn't a war going on
nimble furnace
Also public opinion pressured the UN, they weren't really shown to have a major desire to shut down OW themselves lore makes it sound like the people essentially forced their hand
valid terrace
Technically their goal was pretty much finished
They got to the point where the world didn't need Overwatch
And now they're needed again
cosmic crest
Not really. Even in the most optimistic future there will always be discord and conflict in the world.
valid terrace
But they lowered it to the point that Overwatch was unnecessary
cosmic crest
That's not really how that works.
valid terrace
It's like saying that the covid crisis won't end until the disease is 100% eradicated
It's a little unfeasible
cosmic crest
Just because there is no major conflict in the present doesn't mean there won't be in the future.
valid terrace
Sure
But if I eat my dinner I would say I'm finished eating, because it only applies to the present. I wouldn't say I'm never finished eating, just because I will eat again later.
peak escarp
Jack and Gabe fought, and the Swiss HQ got blown up
but Overwatch was already under investigation before that happened
worthy rose
Ohh ok
I think that if that didn't happen, there would be a chance overwatch wouldn't have ended
peak escarp
possibly
if Jack and Gabe hadn't fought, they could have held Overwatch together and fought the allegations
worthy rose
Did overwatch have any omnic members? Other than echo now?
peak escarp
some omnics were seen in Winston's recall, but it's unclear if they are still canon
some of those faces were just filler/reused concept art
there were some in-universe complaints that Overwatch was anti-progress - maybe they didn't have any omnic members
limpid agate
Did overwatch have any omnic members? Other than echo now?
It is interesting that we have never actually seen any omnic members of Overwatch. The closest is arguably Wildebeest, but even that is questionable because of how old it is.
Bastion could very well be the first Omnic in Overwatch.
worthy rose
Oooo
peak escarp
I've seen people say it's supposed to be Echo, but it looks more masculine than Echo, and her design has been pretty much locked in since before Recall
peak escarp
they were created to stop the omnic crisis, but kept around to serve as a global peacekeeping force for the UN
worthy rose
Ohh ok
Maybe those reasons are why they may not have any confirmed omnic members, due to their original purpose and the tension between omnics and humans
worthy rose
there were some in-universe complaints that Overwatch was anti-progress - maybe ...
Could explain why this critique is even a thing
grand wedge
They were there to make sure there would not be another threat as big as the first Omnic Crisis. The technology went out of control and led to the crisis
Hence some people (like Moira) thought that Overwatch were against progress and stopped some scientific project that were deemed dangerous
(That's how I see it anyway)
silver oriole
Do we know anything about what information Maximillien gave to the Strike Team?
And do we know anything about that one Omnic Doomfist was talking to?
pure breach
Do we know anything about what information Maximillien gave to the Strike Team?
I think it was where Doomfist was going to be.
You know the cartoony video of them fighting him?
silver oriole
Yeah?
pure breach
That’s where they got him.
silver oriole
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
pure breach
Because of the intel Max gave em. I think.
silver oriole
Where he breaks Tracer's harness?
pure breach
87%.
pure breach
Where he breaks Tracer's harness?
Bingo.
silver oriole
Alright, thanks man!
pure breach
No problem.
peak escarp
Do we know anything about what information Maximillien gave to the Strike Team?
we have a recording of his interrogation
Twitter
silver oriole
Thanks Doc!
pure breach
Thanks Doc!
You sound like Tracer thanking Mercy lol.
silver oriole
That is her Rez voice line, isn't it?
Sadly, one of the voices for Overwatch characters I can do is not Tracer's.
peak escarp
worthy rose
Do you think symmetra will be in the story mode?
I'd see her at the least be mentioned by lucio or something
worthy rose
Maybe just a reference to Vishkar
worthy rose
there is a section of the story in India
Ohh ok because she doesn't have much interaction in game to other people, it would be cool to see her
silver oriole
Yeah
Other than her voice lines with Lucio and the Stone By Stone story, she doesn't seem to have any connections to any other hero.
Then again, neither do Junkrat and Roadhog, except for their treasure.
pure breach
Then again, neither do Junkrat and Roadhog, except for their treasure.
Treasure!!!
worthy rose
Do Junk/Hog have any interactions with Hammond in-game?
Not paid attention to interactions for ages.
worthy rose
Wow.
That seems weird.
Feel like it would've been cool if there was one of Junkrat basically fanboying over Wrecking Ball because he's his favorite Scrapyard fighter or something
worthy rose
god she's such a bitch I love her
peak escarp
pure breach
Sombra is amazing.
worthy rose
Sombra hacked your account and posted this^
vague jackal
Wait was genji taught how to use a sword by zenyatta? Or was Hanzo trained in bow, and genji in sword
valid terrace
They were both trained in the sword from when they were in the shimada clan
vague jackal
Ah, ok so then we’re they also both trained in bow too?
valid terrace
You can learn more about their teacher in the kanazaka note
I believe she also taught bow and arrow yes
Otherwise Hanzo had another teacher
vague jackal
I believe she also taught bow and arrow yes
Ok gocha, thanks
peak escarp
their teacher was Asa Yamagami
peak escarp
she might be important, if she becomes a hero
vague jackal
Ye I was just wondering cause I’ve played the game for so long, but never really thought about lore
valid terrace
Yeah Hanzo originally was a swordsman but when he "killed" Genji in their duel he put down the blade and became an archer
finite urchin
their teacher was Asa Yamagami
Wait was she the fox hero or smth
peak escarp
she might be
finite urchin
That’s been teased on kanezaka
peak escarp
we dont know who it is
finite urchin
Okay
peak escarp
it could be Asa, it could be her daughter, it could be someone else (and they're just a red herring)
summer flax
So does tracer recall turn her back in time when shes at a critical stats
What if she gets shot in the head
summer flax
Ah
pastel dust
If you wanna advertise yourself don't do it by shitposting in the lore channel, do it in the overwatch channel or something.
peak escarp
!!loreonly @tacit cairn
twilit nacelleBOT
@tacit cairn This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
pastel dust
I was just about to ask. Thanks Doc
raw wadi
Can anyone explain me the junkrat and rhoadhog lore?
Like how they met the others characters
opaque tundra
Not every character knows each other. There's a comic that shows how they met but I forgot the name of it. I think it's Wasteland or something
pastel dust
You were close. It's called Wasted Land.
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/media/stories/wasted-land/
pastel dust
Can anyone explain me the junkrat and rhoadhog lore?
The link above should bring you to the comic where they meet.
raw wadi
Oh thanks
sullen fern
no
peak escarp
!!shitposting @worthy rose
twilit nacelleBOT
@hasty mason Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
nimble furnace
He has regular role so he can use the bot
If you want to make weird jokes like that just try #general-discussion
iron plume
Lore reg works too
But yes
wet portal
So if doomfist lost his arm why does he have it in the storm rising end cutscene
Is it just a fake arm?
wet portal
That's what I was thinking thanks
lunar crown
I thought he had his arm and the robotic one was just a gauntlet, hence why the kid could use it in the cinimatic, and why he used it to punch his way out of prison earlier on
peak escarp
he has a prosthetic arm - the gauntlet is separate
most of Genji's body wasn't destroyed
and NSFW is not allowed on this server
trim ruin
If Roadhog and Junkrat had to choose a side for some reason, would they choose Talon? Its a stupid question but i just think they’ll join Talon for some reason because 1) they’ll probably be paid off and 2) they hate those filthy clankers/omnics
limpid agate
They would choose the side with the deepest pockets
And of every side in Overwatch, only Talon would pay for them
And even then...
Talon doesn't want them
trim ruin
I feel like even then, they’d do something that would get them killed like trying to rob Maximilian for more money
limpid agate
Sombra used them as a distraction in Dorado during the ARG
trim ruin
Talon doesn't want them
You never know, maybe they wont there own little black ops, or something
limpid agate
Unimportant
trim ruin
Black Ops are just the team no one hears about, i was making a comparison, rather than actually calling them black ops
limpid agate
Just the champion of Junkertown
analog cargo
ball?
trim ruin
And monke’s friend
analog cargo
thats all?