yeah
#lore-discussion
arctic loom
i prefer the original color
of skins
golden gun make them ugly
losing the charm
lyric sluice
did moira steal mercy tech
cosmic crest
Well, Angela is pretty restrictive of what other people do with her work.
And she has been quite vocal of how she disproves of Moira's research.
Doesn't necessarily mean Moira didn't have permission to use it though.
limpid agate
Again, not steal. Overwatch/Blackwatch had used her tech against her wishes or weaponized it on numerous occasions
lyric sluice
lmao thats why i said borrow đ
also ir orisa tech like ow tech because her gun reloads it looks like from drawing particles from the air like winston and tracer and mercys gun
hexed nova
was genjis d!ck removed and he has a robotic one now?
peak escarp
!!shitposting
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
hexed nova
??? these are questions about the lore!
peak escarp
don't be vulgar
placid falcon
prude
peak escarp
we don't know the status of Genji's genitals, nor is it relevant to the lore
peak escarp
this isn't that kind of game
worthy rose
As the Doctor said don't be vulgar.Information of his genitals will never be revealed and it never should
proud pike
As the Doctor said don't be vulgar.Information of his genitals will never be rev...
but actually it was
peak escarp
it was not
it was vaguely implied that his "lower body" was intact
nothing more specific has been confirmed
why does everyone care so much about his dick?
young knoll
limpid agate
Move on
lyric sluice
is hero of the storm lore
fair jolt
terse oar
ďżźitâs non canon
cosmic crest
The way I see it, OW is cannon to HotS, but HotS isn't cannon to OW.
lyric sluice
lmao here i am thiking how tf did genji fight that thing in diablo
lyric sluice
The way I see it, OW is cannon to HotS, but HotS isn't cannon to OW.
makes sense
terse oar
The way I see it, OW is cannon to HotS, but HotS isn't cannon to OW.
Yes, the different Blizzard heroes are canon to the HOTS lore (âThe Nexusâ), but HOTS is not canon to OW or other Blizzard games
lyric sluice
i honeslty want to see echo turn evil ultimate plot twist because her description is shes trying to find her place in the world
like cortana turned evil
terse oar
Itâs hard to list all of them, but most of the Archives ones are (obviously)
terse oar
Yeah, Talon and OW Agent ones are canon
Hanzoâs âCasualâ skin is seen in a comic
Doomfistâs âFormalâ
peak escarp
some that have descriptions aren't canon
some that are canon don't have descriptions
errant glen
weird
small haven
i honeslty want to see echo turn evil ultimate plot twist because her descriptio...
I think it's more likely that a character turns good. Moira points out that Widowmaker is showing signs of emotion and Sigma saying "Keep it together, keep it together..." and "Release me" shows that he's not exactly stable. Sombra is also a love/hate character but she doesn't really have a side. Don't think it could happen the other way around though. Unless they reveal that a character was evil all along
peak escarp
which would be bad writing
I think the most likely character to switch sides is Maximilien
or at least, he's likely to betray Doomfist/Talon again
wooden yacht
Iâm placing my bets on another sombra appearance in the story campaign in ow2
wooden yacht
I mean Iâm pretty sure that the newspaper in the training grounds was pointing to her
wooden yacht
Yep
peak escarp
also on Dorado
but these have been in the game since before Sombra was added
Havana has a different one that's more relevant to current events
wooden yacht
Then again we did have the sombra event type thing leading up to her
wooden yacht
Oh wow Iâve only just seen that
When reaper talks about them knowing what sombra has been doing I just think that it seems a little suspicious as I think a character known for their intelligence wouldnât be so easily found out
peak escarp
wooden yacht
I know that in her trailer she was found out about but not by talon
peak escarp
there's the extracted texture from the newspaper
wooden yacht
Oh thanks Iâll have a look at that
peak escarp
the Greek translates to "The Angel of the Sun"/"Many Fears During Carnival Attacks â
there's an analysis of that find
Widowmaker even has a voice line referencing it
wooden yacht
Oh wow congrats to whoever noticed that
peak escarp
it's one of the many threads sprinkled throughout the map that haven't been revisited yet
but we may get a story out of it at some point
wooden yacht
Hope so
Honestly I miss the old comics they werenât like amazing Shakespeare level but they just added just that little bit of lore that we needed every now and again
peak escarp
I think with OW2 we'll get the lore we've been waiting for
we just need to be patient
limpid agate
@craggy phoenix No advertising
limpid agate
@vestal kraken If you don't have anything to say, don't say anything.
twilit nacelleBOT
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
vestal kraken
wicked sinew
I think with OW2 we'll get the lore we've been waiting for
what lore are you preposing we get?
peak escarp
story missions
severe burrow
I can read and understand about 45% of this
peak escarp
cool
terse oar
Is that an official employee?
arctic loom
yes
terse oar
Huh, neat
peak escarp
no
arctic loom
oh no?
peak escarp
Naeri is not official
terse oar
I remember seeing that footage
peak escarp
also this is literally things shown off at Blizzcon 2019
terse oar
It was to test the Storm graphic in Storm Rising I think
Or it was the inspiration for it
peak escarp
this is nothing new
peak escarp
we already know we're getting news about OW2 at Blizzconline
rain star
am i able too see blizzcons without attending in person? stupid question, but i actuallt dont know of any instances where someone has gone to blizzcon online or watched after it happened
terse oar
am i able too see blizzcons without attending in person? stupid question, but i ...
Theyâve always done online tickets as well as in person. This year, everything is online and free to view
ebon river
hey i have a question
what the actual hell
i know about hanzo and genji but apparently theres a third one now
moira i think?
ebon river
i dont know
i joined a casual match and then my hanzo and some other genji started talking
about honor and shit
and then a feminine voice joined in
limpid agate
Hanzo and Genji are brothers.
ebon river
i am aware
limpid agate
There is no third character in that interaction.
Random voicelines can be played in the spawnroom
ebon river
alright thanks
worthy rose
Bruh moira is a shimada :0
opal pasture
imagine
worthy rose
No shes not
proud pike
Of crs she's not
worthy rose
Moira was set to inherit the temple, but Genji made a dog's breakfast of it
proud pike
cerulean ice
dim horizon
No shes not
Source?
cerulean ice
stuck kindle
First she doesnât have the shimada surname
Sheâs not Japanese
And sheâs not a assassin
dim horizon
It all checks out.
placid terrace
hm
winged dragon
im pretty sure if she wanted to kill reyess, she would've straight up shot him or something, not some experimental ghost thing
valid terrace
I feel like lethal injection is more her style
She was experimenting on him, he's valuable to her
dim horizon
Her preference seems to be to straight up suck the life out of people.
If her part in the Retribution opening animation is anything to go by.
dim horizon
I'm not saying she wanted to killed Reyes - in fact I think that's a baseless theory for the very reason you pointed out above, he's too valuable a subject.
But when she does want to kill people, her succ is as quick and efficient as any lethal injection or other means.
As evidenced by the Retribution intro.
Now granted, she might just be succ'ing those guys into unconsciousness for all we know. But everyone else in the team bar McCree is wasting the mooks, so we can assume Moira is doing the same.
peak escarp
McCree was only using his fists because his other weapon is a gun and guns are loud
it was supposed to be a stealth mission
dim horizon
Yep, so the point stands.
Speaking of Moira, I could honestly see her being endgame villain material if they take her in a certain direction.
If the story ever moves to other mediums in a meaningful way, at least.
peak escarp
I don't think she has the ambition for it
she doesn't want power, she just wants to do science
dim horizon
Ambition in the sense of craving power for its own sake, she certainly lacks.
She is incredibly ambitious however - she craves the knowledge that "unlocking the secrets" of human evolution, etc that she talks about in her origin story.
What makes her potential endgame villain in my mind is not what she will do to obtain power, but rather the lengths she will go to protect and nurture her own quest for knowledge.
She's sociopathic by all accounts, and it's that kind of emotional detachment that lets a villain see anyone who tries to stop or restrain them as nothing more than obstacles to be overcome.
All depends on what this "breakthrough" she envisions entails.
I could easily see her attempting to betray/overthrow Doomfist, for example, the moment their goals no longer align.
If DF moves Talon in a direction that doesn't enable her own work, she's the type to try and cast him aside and replace him with someone more malleable.
Such as Reaper.
This is all just speculative of course, but hey - it's fun to speculate.
peak escarp
the thing is, I don't think DF would do that
Moira's work is valuable, I don't think he would do anything to jeopardize that
dim horizon
We don't yet know enough about either of their plans when it comes to specifics.
So whilst it's vague enough for us to speculate, it's also vague enough to be frustrating when looking for evidence for such speculations.
The Overwatch Lore Paradox.
peak escarp
I think the biggest threat right now is the Null Sector leader - we need to learn more about him
dim horizon
Honestly I'll be disappointed if OW2's campaign is mainly focused on Null Sector.
Rather than a number of different factions (perhaps with some puppetmaster behind the scenes as the big bad).
But I'm cautiously optimistic that won't be the case. Revealing Null Sector and Talon in the initial announcement made sense since they're based on existing assets/designs for the most part.
I'd like/hope we get more groups/enemies to fight our way through.
Feb 19th can't come soon enough - should at least give us something more solid to shape expectations around in terms of the amount of content in the campaign.
peak escarp
Null Sector and Talon are working together, so it makes sense we would fight both of them
lyric sluice
she doesn't want power, she just wants to do science
ya dosent she try to get mercy to join
her like collaeagues
*not talon i dont think
peak escarp
Mercy would not join her
she has no respect for the work done at Oasis
I'd like to have Helix as a third enemy faction, someone we can fight against as Talon heroes
dim horizon
Yeah, that's a perfect example.
Junkers could fight....well, anyone I suppose.
Vishkar and Volskaya also seem like fair game to provide the kind of "small armies of 3 or 4 identical enemy types" that OW NPCs have.
peak escarp
I think the Junkers are too regional, it would be hard to find a reason to fight them
and Vishkar is unlikely to have an army
dim horizon
"We need to get [INSERT MACGUFFIN HERE] from an old omnium. They say the Junker Queen has one from the wreckage of the Australian omnium."
peak escarp
they probably just have specialists, like Symmetra
what's the point in making an entire faction for one mission?
dim horizon
We have no idea of the sense of scale of OW2. Re-using assets across anniversary events like Archives is one thing, but one would hope variety is going to be a big driving force behind the production of a whole new game we will be paying for.
After all, it doesn't matter much if the whole campaign is a bunch of missions with the same recycled enemies in it. Look how people complained about Storm Rising for reusing the enemies from Retribution.
Bear in mind, any story mission enemies can also be reused for "highly replayable" hero missions too.
And variety is one of the key pillars for making something "highly replayable".
unreal tartan
They could use Junkrat's treasure (if that's still canon) as a way to rope the junkers in to the story, with both sides trying to get to it first
peak escarp
it is still canon
peak escarp
Junkrat's secret could be interesting
limpid agate
I really hope that Blizzconline reveals a Helix/Petras Act Enforcer hero
That's the most important plot thread that they just don't acknowledge
lyric sluice
I'd like to have Helix as a third enemy faction, someone we can fight against as...
oohh thatsa actually a great idea for pve lmao
limpid agate
@past forge This is the lore channel
alpine totem
Hanzo X Genji
worthy rose
Its never gonna happen
terse oar
Hanzo X Genji
!!loreonly
twilit nacelleBOT
This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
nimble furnace
Hanzo X genji shouldn't happen
Blizz is trying to hard with the LGBTQ stuff but come on bud brothers that's a bit too farfetched even for them
If you mean in the sense that they should reconcile their differences then yeah but that's a weird way to phrase it
proud pike
lapis aspen
Blizz is trying to hard with the LGBTQ stuff but come on bud brothers that's a b...
two out of thirty two characters are gay
"trying too hard"
nimble lodge
>two out of thirty two characters are gay
>"trying too hard"
should half of them be gay for them to be trying too hard?
lapis aspen
my point is having any amount of gay characters isnt trying too hard
thats a stupid idea
they could all be gay and i still wouldn't call it trying too hard tbh
but the idea of looking at a cast of diverse characters from various cultures and thinking 2 out of 32 characters being gay is somehow trying too hard to be lgbt is especially ridiculous
peak escarp
they're just trying to represent the world as it is
lapis aspen
yes
which is why it's weird to see that somehow 2 gay characters is "trying too hard"
nimble lodge
they're just trying to represent the world as it is
makes sense đ¤ˇââď¸
proud pike
which is why it's weird to see that somehow 2 gay characters is "trying too hard...
one of them is ow leader another one is mascot
lapis aspen
so?
proud pike
ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
lapis aspen
so only unimportant background characters are allowed to be gay got it
proud pike
- mascot of the game
- unimportant bg characters
lapis aspen
howd u miss my point that spectacularly
peak escarp
don't argue, I'm pretty sure you both agree about the same thing
lapis aspen
no we sure don't lmao
2 gay characters is in no way trying too hard
the idea that blizzard is somehow trying too hard to appeal to the lgbt community is stupid ofc im gonna call it out for being weird and kind of homophobic
proud pike
i think they're really trying too hard
lapis aspen
how
proud pike
lapis aspen
in what way is 2 characters in a diverse cast trying too hard
nimble lodge
the idea that blizzard is somehow trying too hard to appeal to the lgbt communit...
kind of homophobic?
lapis aspen
yes
nimble lodge
do you understand how these characters were introduced as gay in the first place?
lapis aspen
gay characters can exist without the creators "trying to hard" to be lgbt
nimble lodge
they introduced these heros as gay literally years after the release of the game
lapis aspen
so?
peak escarp
and?
lapis aspen
not sure why that matters
nimble lodge
its almost as if they are using this sexual orientation as a marketing tool rather than something that was well thought out from the beginning
peak escarp
it would be weird if they had hinted at Tracer and Soldier having hetero romantic interests and then suddenly said they were gay
but they didn't
there were hints all along
lapis aspen
sure we can dive into the fact that the entertainment industry loves queerbaiting but that's literally not the point rn
peak escarp
definitely not marketing
lapis aspen
it's not even slightly relevant bc i wouldn't even call this queerbaiting
peak escarp
lapis aspen
they're just gay
nimble lodge
i am not homophobic and i hope no one else is in this conversation but calling people homophobic based on ideas surrounding gay people is pretty silly.
lapis aspen
?????
nimble lodge
why are you calling people homophobic for saying a certain sexual orientation is pushed on the community?
lapis aspen
saying that gay people existing as the mascots/main characters of a video game is the developers trying too hard
is in fact
homophobic
pushed??? it's 2 characters dude
theres barely even any references to them being gay ingame
nimble lodge
howd u miss my point that spectacularly
.
nimble lodge
its almost as if they are using this sexual orientation as a marketing tool rath...
.
lapis aspen
if you think tracer and soldier being gay is gay people being pushed onto you
thats
just
blatantly homophobic
nimble lodge
its almost as if they are using this sexual orientation as a marketing tool rath...
.
peak escarp
it's not a marketing tool
lapis aspen
literally whats being pushed on u bro
nimble lodge
howd u miss my point that spectacularly
.
lapis aspen
please explain
peak escarp
it was a footnote in stories that weren't about their orientation
peak escarp
mentioned on 1 page out of 12/18
nimble lodge
what's being pushed onto the overwatch community
I am suggesting they are going about it the wrong way which can make it seem like they are trying too hard
lapis aspen
so then what's the right way
nimble lodge
they said this way too late into the characters stories and it just looks like a way to please people in the lgbtq community
lapis aspen
they literally made their orientation as insignificant to the lore as they possibly could how would u suggest they do that better
nimble lodge
we already know they are not shy to please a certain community of people
lapis aspen
?
lapis aspen
too late?
characters arent allowed to be gay after a certain amount of time apparently LMAO
peak escarp
you don't immediately know someone's orientation upon meeting them
it can be years before it comes up
nimble lodge
characters arent allowed to be gay after a certain amount of time apparently LMA...
no one said this
nimble lodge
?
lapis aspen
3 minutes ago
peak escarp
they said this way too late into the characters stories
lapis aspen
^
nimble lodge
I said it looks like they are pleasing a certain group of people. that doesnt mean gay people cant be in the game after a certain amount of time
peak escarp
everything we've seen up to now has been backstory
nimble lodge
```they said this way too late into the characters stories```
this isnt even bad either.
lapis aspen
so blizzard confirms 2 characters that had never been hinted at being straight as being gay and thats.. just pleasing the lgbt community
nimble lodge
trying too hard to something doesnt mean its bad and it cant be added
lapis aspen
man just say you hate gay people and don't want them in your video games
lapis aspen
itd be a whole lot easier than whatever mental gymnastics ur doing
peak escarp
you must also have a problem with Torb being revealed as straight when we see his wife/kids
worthy rose
Lol
peak escarp
or Genji having feelings for Mercy
nimble lodge
wtf dude
peak escarp
those weren't revealed right at the start
peak escarp
we found those out years after release
nimble lodge
its as if you guys keep forgetting the points I have already stated
lapis aspen
it's as if your points are stupid and easily invalidated
peak escarp
I can't figure out what your actual point is
lapis aspen
^
nimble lodge
it's as if your points are stupid and easily invalidated
how can you invalidate my points if you just keep forgetting them and moving onto the next thing?
lapis aspen
???
nimble lodge
I can't figure out what your actual point is
they are trying too hard and i think its so everyone is represented
lapis aspen
the only thing you've actually said so far is
tracer and soldier being gay is trying too hard bc it wasn't revealed at the start
and thats just like
come on man
common sense
peak escarp
if making sure that your game accurately represents the diversity of the world is trying too hard, then a lot of games try too hard
lapis aspen
if making sure that your game accurately represents the diversity of the world i...
SO true bestie
2 characters being gay is not gay people being pushed on you or blizzard trying too hard
it's literally just
gay characters
peak escarp
but as long as it doesn't become tokenism, having a diverse game is a good thing
nimble lodge
arhk it looks like youre way too emotional to have a conversation with you keep forgetting my points.
peak escarp
Tracer isn't "the gay charater", she's a hero who believes in Overwatch who happens to be gay
Soldier isn't "the gay character", he's a veteran trying to get justice who happens to be gay
lapis aspen
blizzard did nothing to champion their sexuality as a huge show of diversity it was literally revealed in a short story and discussed for maybe 1 or 2 short paragraphs
and somehow for you thats
trying too hard
like do you not see how that's just stupid ?
lapis aspen
arhk it looks like youre way too emotional to have a conversation with you keep ...
you can't admit you're wrong so you go for "too emotional" ggs
nimble lodge
but as long as it doesn't become tokenism, having a diverse game is a good thing
They introduced this way too late into the game and it looks like overwatch did this simply to please a certain group of people. The reason why torb being straight doesnt look like this is because we already know how certain individuals act when something isnt right in a game. They complain then changes are made linking back to my point with how zarya was brought into the game.
nimble lodge
you can't admit you're wrong so you go for "too emotional" ggs
nope. its why am going to ignore you and have a conversation with your friend.
lapis aspen
why is it too late for them to be revealed as gay
do you not see how weird that sounds
peak escarp
They complain then changes are made linking back to my point with how zarya was brought into the game.
what do you mean by this?
lapis aspen
ur entire paragraph is actual nonsense i have no idea what ur point is LMAO
peak escarp
also like I said, everything so far has been backstory
we haven't even gotten to the main plot of Overwatch yet
how can that be "too late"?
nimble lodge
as far as I know zarya was added to the game because of women complaining that there isnt a wider range of female bodies in the game.
nimble lodge
how can that be "too late"?
it looks they are simply adding it to please that community.
lapis aspen
????????
peak escarp
Zarya was a planned addition to the game long before there were any complaints
lapis aspen
so now you think zarya was added to appease muscular women or something
how deep does this hole go
worthy rose
Is there really anything wrong with trying to please the community?
lapis aspen
Is there really anything wrong with trying to please the community?
THIS TOO
nimble lodge
Is there really anything wrong with trying to please the community?
no, i said this a few times before actually.
lapis aspen
then why are you complaining abt it being pushed too hard on you
nimble lodge
Zarya was a planned addition to the game long before there were any complaints
alright
nimble lodge
then why are you complaining abt it being pushed too hard on you
it looks like it is being pushed onto the community because they added it so late making it look like its just to please the lgbt community
lapis aspen
but ur only saying that bc they're gay and not straight
nimble lodge
yes
lapis aspen
i don't see you complaining abt characters being revealed as straight to appeal to the heterosexual community
peak escarp
nimble lodge
i don't see you complaining abt characters being revealed as straight to appeal ...
bro
lapis aspen
like what's not clicking dude
nimble lodge
are you going to make me copy and paste a previous answer?
someone had already asked this question
nimble lodge
ur answer was gibberish
like i said.
youre way too emotional to have a conversation with
peak escarp
it looks like it is being pushed onto the community because they added it so late making it look like its just to please the lgbt community
it may look like that, but it's not
lapis aspen
?
where are you even getting too emotional from
sounds like you just don't want to say you've lost this argument
peak escarp
these characters were planned as gay from the beginning - we have panel transcripts from Blizzcon 2015 saying that there are multiple LGBT heroes in the game, and Soldier has hints in his voice lines that he was gay
nimble lodge
these characters were planned as gay from the beginning - we have panel transcri...
I guess this is one part of information I didnt know
peak escarp
let me see if I can find it
lapis aspen
gay character revealing he's gay on one page of a short story that's not included ingame is too much but 2 straight characters having their actual biological kids in the game too isn't too much
like idk
its kind of obvious
like what the problem is here
lapis aspen
?
nimble lodge
no one is saying any of this is bad
lapis aspen
you keep saying that but don't want to elaborate on your answer
i don't even know where you're getting too emotional from
who's being emotional bro
nimble lodge
no one has said that at all this entire conversation but you are suggesting everyone who has an opinion surrounding gay people that isnt positive is homophobic
lapis aspen
......yea??
nimble lodge
like are you stupid or just dumb
someone is being emotional again.
lapis aspen
thinking that 2 gay characters who barely have had their sexuality discussed is too much and blizzard trying too hard is just homophobic
like
idk what to tell you man!
nimble lodge
thinking that 2 gay characters who barely have had their sexuality discussed is ...
we have already discussed the points to why i think my point stands
lapis aspen
that is in fact an opinion a homophobic person would have! good job!
nimble lodge
your friend even said it appears to be so but from the very start it wasnt intended
nimble lodge
that is in fact an opinion a homophobic person would have! good job!
yikes man
mistaking people who couldn't care less about a persons sexual orientation inst going to go well for you.
lapis aspen
youve done nothing but say that 2 gay characters with sexualities hardly discussed or even relevant to the game is "trying too hard" and gay people being "pushed onto the community"
that kind of opinion's not gonna get you very far
nimble lodge
that kind of opinion's not gonna get you very far
getting emotional and having other people defend you will get you quite far.
lapis aspen
youve done nothing but say that 2 gay characters with sexualities hardly discuss...
anyways
nimble lodge
youve done nothing but say that 2 gay characters with sexualities hardly discuss...
the guy who was defending you even openly stated that it appears to be that way but it isn't.
you should read all 10 million of these messages later
lapis aspen
youve done nothing but say that 2 gay characters with sexualities hardly discuss...
n e ways
peak escarp
I'm still trying to find the clip, but I found the quote
We want the stories about characters relationships â not just romantic, but familial relationships and stuff like that â to come out in the course of stories that we feel really do them justice. Itâs something that absolutely is important to us.```this is from Chris Metzen
nimble lodge
I understand.
peak escarp
I don't think this argument is really going anywhere
lapis aspen
me neither
worthy rose
Pointless argument
nimble lodge
I don't think this argument is really going anywhere
Theres was a piece of information I didnt have đ¤ˇââď¸
nimble lodge
Pointless argument
it was cool
peak escarp
how about we discuss Moira and how she's essentially to blame for the fall of Overwatch
worthy rose
She is?
lapis aspen
wait one more thing
lapis aspen
your friend even said it appears to be so but from the very start it wasnt inten...
i just comprehended this
worthy rose
Wasn't it like Gabriel who was responsible
peak escarp
lapis aspen
he said the exact opposite and that it was in fact planned from he beginning to have gay characters
let's hope ow2 makes moira a main villain tbh
worthy rose
Pretty sure it's Null sector
lapis aspen
i think it'd be really interesting to see how far she'd go for the sake of progress
worthy rose
Or Doomfist
peak escarp
the main antagonist of OW2 is Null Sector, supported by Talon
lapis aspen
i can still hope we get interesting villains đ
peak escarp
we still haven't learned much about Null Hector - he could be interesting
this guy
I hope he ends up as a playable hero
limpid agate
Most likely will.
limpid agate
let's hope ow2 makes moira a main villain tbh
She has no motive to become a main villain.
cerulean ice
shes more of a neutral inside talon
she doesnt have any malicious intents
just science
gusty sluice
She doesnt have ethical morality though
cerulean ice
that doesnt make her necessarily evil
proud pike
True, but actually comma is right, i think she's like Sombra. Has only her interests
And Talon for her is just a "tool" to realize her interests
iron plume
Her interests are more aligned with Talon than Sombra's, however
gusty sluice
Shes more of a gray villain or neutral, but her villainous characteristic is only how unethical she does with the animals
iron plume
Sombra's goal is to learn more about/stop the Conspiracy, which people other than Talon could possibly help her with
cerulean ice
sombra does not care about talon at all
iron plume
Moira's is to "progress" at all costs
proud pike
Yes, but still she is interested in science, even if it is a little unethical, and not in terrorist attacks.
She just needs A) cover. B) funds
iron plume
Moira definitely buys into the ideology to some extent
She has both of those with Oasis
proud pike
And that's what Talon can provide her with
iron plume
yet she's still in Talon
and not just in Talon but on the council
Moira's reasoning is literally the same as Doomfist's
proud pike
yet she's still in Talon
and not just in Talon but on the council
tbh I think that she got there because of her long-standing acquaintance with Reyes
iron plume
except instead of "start a war and someone will progress tech" it's "start a war and they will let me progress tech"
proud pike
It's just a guess, but still
iron plume
She's more practically-oriented
proud pike
yeah
iron plume
On the Reyes connection, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the other way around
There doesn't seem to be any reason for Reyes to join an organization he's spent decades fighting against, even if he does get pissed off at Morrison
There's quite a long way off between "fuck Overwatch" and "fuck Overwatch and I'll also join a global terrorist group"
proud pike
No, I meant that Moira got into this council because of her long-standing acquaintance with Reyes.
proud pike
ah, sry
dont got it first time
About Reyes.... Don't know.
I understand that he has a conflict with Jack, but I don't understand his actions in general.
As you wrote above
He didn't seem to have any self-serving goals or anything.
Yes, actually, the BW exceeded its authority, but sometimes their harsh methods were really necessary.
Even in the Reflections. Reyes is shown to those who still have a little bit of regret for what they did.
tbh I still don't understand his actions
They just... illogical?
unreal tartan
Sombra is is the closest thing OW has to an antihero
cerulean ice
this woman uses talon and controls the government
the most obvious antihero would be soldier
possibly even ana
proud pike
the most obvious antihero would be soldier
huh?
cerulean ice
whats your view?
iron plume
An antihero is still on the side of the "good", just not a typical hero figure
Sombra isn't a hero, so she's not an antihero
unreal tartan
I kinda forgot Soldier's lore for a second there
iron plume
she may yet become one, but she's not
proud pike
Yes, i know, but... he's not an antihero
iron plume
I'd say he is
unreal tartan
An antihero is a protagonist who lacks typically heroic qualities
I would say that Soldier, who lacks idealism and operates illegally, fits the criteria
golden jasper
there were hints all along
Do you happen to have a list of these hints? Might be useful to have just in case.
limpid agate
Hints for what
cosmic crest
An antihero is still on the side of the "good", just not a typical hero figure
An antihero is a character that does not show conventional heroic attributes and often play both sides, so I'd say Sombra is very much an antihero.
Soldier isn't one because he has never been shown to do anything remotely villainous.
proud pike
An antihero is a character that does not show conventional heroic attributes and...
not on both sides
iron plume
An antihero is still a protagonist, not a "both sides" person
proud pike
An antihero is a positive main / minor character who has negative traits, but his good traits overlap them.
iron plume
and we haven't seen Sombra play "both sides" yet
cosmic crest
An antihero is still a protagonist, not a "both sides" person
Protagonist doesn't mean "hero" or "good guy"
proud pike
Actually we seen, no?
proud pike
Magician, but... Sombra's friendship with Baptiste? or Volskaya mission? Actually, we seen her "both sides" game
iron plume
Neither of those are her "playing for the other side"
She helps Baptiste because she's his friend, not to help Overwatch or be a good guy
and in Volskaya mission she does it for herself
proud pike
I'm talking about other side with her side meaning
Not OW side
Like... She's playing for herself
and thats it
iron plume
that's not what "playing both sides" means
unreal tartan
She helps Baptiste because she's his friend, not to help Overwatch or be a good ...
Which does fit the definition an antihero, as doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is an antihero trait
cosmic crest
Yes
proud pike
Which does fit the definition an antihero, as doing the right thing for the wron...
Antihero-initially a positive character.
iron plume
She occasionally does good things
proud pike
Sombra is not such a thing
unreal tartan
It would be hard to argue that Sombra is a protagonist in the current story, I will agree
cosmic crest
I struggle to see the difference between those two things
iron plume
An antihero is an atypical hero
unreal tartan
I will retract my previous statement and say instead that Sombra would make for a very interesting antihero
proud pike
Antihero - good character with some bad things
Antivillain - bad character with some good things
cosmic crest
I don't see how Soldier is atypical.
proud pike
So she's more like antivillain than antihero
iron plume
He's cynical and jaded
as opposed to outwardly heroic
it's like the OG antihero trait
cosmic crest
Being a hero doesn't mean having the right personality
iron plume
...yes
An antihero is still a hero
just with a different personality than the typical one
unreal tartan
Let's set aside the semantics đ
hasty surge
is there a lore to this year's lunar new year's skins like before?
cerulean ice
no not really
its just based off chinese culture
or maybe im wrong idk im not interested in it anyways
terse oar
is there a lore to this year's lunar new year's skins like before?
Unlike last years, this yearâs skins donât really follow much of a story theme
Orisaâs âBull Demonâ is from Journey to the West, Widowâs âPale Serpentâ is from a different myth
proud pike
still no info about LC5, right?
proud pike
oh well
proud pike
i havent even read lc4 luL
I won't spoiler, but actually it was illogical and boring as previous
anyway thanks for info
terse oar
Itâs to rushed
proud pike
Yes, it tries to create an intrigue that is dispelled on the next page.
||Look! sniper! Who tried to kill Case?!||
||Oh, okay, it was another omnic, got it||
or...
||Who's that omnic with a cape?!||
||Nevermind, its just an Iggy's friend||
||Lena's chrono-accelerator is broken. What will happen to her?!||
||Oh, it was fixed in no time, okay.||
||Iggy exposed the deception of the Case! Will the Omnics overthrow their ruler? ||
||Oh no, nevermind, - she was just caught because she went alone.||
and so on and so on...
nimble furnace
youve done nothing but say that 2 gay characters with sexualities hardly discuss...
So I missed that fight because I went to bed but fr I was just saying Hanzo and Genji ship wasn't gonna happen oml
lapis aspen
blank stare
iron plume
Literally no one said otherwise
And that's not why that fight started, which you know damn well
peak escarp
re: Sombra playing both sides, there's some implications that she may have given Soldier the surveillance footage from Volskaya and is helping him track Reaper, and that she may have been the one to give McCree Echo's location
but that's just speculation
grim prawn
re: Sombra playing both sides, there's some implications that she may have given...
what
thats some cool lore
terse oar
Itâs only speculation, but itâs not far fetched like most things
peak escarp
in the Necropolis map, where Soldier and Ana have set up their base, you can see surveillance footage from Volskaya on the screens there, and in Bastet, Ana notes that Jack was never the "subterfuge and espionage" type and wondered who was helping him
and it's likely that Sombra gave McCree the shipping manifest for the military train that had Echo on it, since she could easily access that information but McCree could not, and he has been seen in Dorado (near Sombra) prior to Reunion
lyric sluice
wait so sombras good?
peak escarp
no
terse oar
wait so sombras good?
Sheâs neutral
peak escarp
Sombra is neutral
terse oar
Sheâs just using Talon to help herself
lyric sluice
Sheâs neutral
oh
peak escarp
her end goal is rather selfish, but that doesn't make her evil
lyric sluice
dosent she want to find like a conspiracy or something
terse oar
She wants to find âwho runs the worldâ
peak escarp
the only side she's truly on is her own
lyric sluice
wait so is mauga still going to be a hero or not i heard that sigma replaced him?
also junker queen?
last inlet
They had plans for Mauga that eventually were used to create Sigma, since his kit didn't fit Mauga in their eyes
I think they may have said they still plan on him, but I don't know how much they've talked about it
And I don't know how much they really plan to do with Junker Queen
lyric sluice
ohhh
arctic loom
yeah mauga would be really interessing
but probably would be like orisa
with 150 ammo
or 200
and slow
terse oar
He was described to have a barrier, although that would most likely change
terse oar
Yes
arctic loom
more like orisa
terse oar
It seemed to sound more like Rein
terse oar
He technically is, Mauga is a Heavy Assault
worthy rose
Please make it cancelable
terse oar
I doubt theyâd just copy-paste the Heavy Assault moves
arctic loom
well if he going shoot by him both arms
maybe
150 ammo?
or 200 ammo?
orisa used to have 200 ammo
in past
peak escarp
the Heavy's swipe move would be good for Mauga to have
something to knock targets back
terse oar
150 ammo?
I was thinking heâd have infinite ammo, but it would overheat after a certain duration
arctic loom
thats a good one too
we already know what summer games skin
he will get
like bap got
terse oar
I hadnât thought of that, and I want it now
terse oar
Yeah
golden jasper
Hints for what
Sorry for the late reply, but I'm because of what Six said:
it would be weird if they had hinted at Tracer and Soldier having hetero romantic interests and then suddenly said they were gay
but they didn't
there were hints all along
So I'm asking if they have these hints on hand since it'll be useful to have in case someone is talking about Tracer's/Soldier's sexuality.
lyric sluice
magua look like maui
proud pike
ngl, i agree
terse oar
What literally everyone says...
proud pike
yes
terse oar
Yes
arctic loom
oh still
terse oar
The last weâve seen him, Baptiste blew him up on a dock (although he lived)
nimble furnace
Can't wait for blizz con when they tell us OW2 is cancelled so none of this matters đ
peak escarp
Mauga is still with Talon, yes
peak escarp
!!shitposting @nimble furnace
twilit nacelleBOT
@nimble furnace Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
nimble furnace
Ik ik I'm just prepared for the worst
terse oar
And that game turned out to be a massive success
proud pike
bingo
terse oar
We just wait patiently, and weâll be satisfied
arctic loom
well next week is blizzcon and since... ow 2 coming next year probably
i dont know
what to expect
at least a cinematic
nimble furnace
True they've probably delved too deep into the lore and hyped OW2 up too much at this point to back off
arctic loom
would be cool
terse oar
Omg that is next week..
proud pike
i think we'll get that new fox hero
arctic loom
i hope so
proud pike
its just a guess
proud pike
of course
peak escarp
Blizz hasn't overhyped OW2, that was the community's own fault
terse oar
But anything can happen at this point
arctic loom
well since the heroes of ow 2 will be on ow 1
peak escarp
Archives is usually in April
terse oar
btw, soon we'll have archives (i think)
Yes. About a month and half until
proud pike
its kinda soon
peak escarp
and there probably wont be a new mission
terse oar
Definitely wonât
arctic loom
more challenges?
terse oar
Id be down with that
arctic loom
now about anniversary... idk
proud pike
sad
terse oar
My guess for the challenges is to test something for OW2
peak escarp
Archives was to tell the story of how Overwatch fell, and they've finished doing that
terse oar
The missions in OW2 are most likely going to have similar challenge modes like the Archive missions
arctic loom
and still have anniversary
peak escarp
unless they could somehow give us a demo mission for Archives
terse oar
That would be a dream...
peak escarp
yeah
lyric sluice
is the original trailer for ow still lore
cuz doom fist in that one has a guantlet
its not an arm
or is it part of an arm?
lyric sluice
oh so he has a metal arm
arctic loom
the only thing im hoping now on that blizzcon is be able to do pre order of ow 2
just it
peak escarp
he has a prosthetic arm underneath the gauntlet
lyric sluice
i just want a conetmatic
lyric sluice
he has a prosthetic arm underneath the gauntlet
oh makes sense
arctic loom
that and a cinematic
lyric sluice
yes
peak escarp
a cinematic is likely
arctic loom
been a while since last one
terse oar
A cinematic is a definite
lyric sluice
second ow2 cienmatic maybe?
peak escarp
we get one every Blizzcon
arctic loom
so on end of cinematic shows
terse oar
Theyâve always had one I think
arctic loom
''2022''
lyric sluice
lol
arctic loom
yay.
arctic loom
yeah
the only thing i want is be able to do pre order... like how is crash
right now on battle.net
peak escarp
because Activision merged the company that made it with Blizzard
arctic loom
yeah never expected see crash bandicoot
on battle.net
btw
still left a comic
of tracer right?
terse oar
1 more
terse oar
I wonder, assuming the Archive missions would be permanently available to those of OW2, will the missions be revamped 
Gameplay wise
terse oar
Obviously the items would be put in
But I wonder if the enemies and such would be drastically changed to fit in the new units
proud pike
tbh, with such workshop updates I think that someone will create OW2 in OW1, faster than OW2 will come out
It's cool, but I think blizzard is giving us a hint: "Have fun yourself"
peak escarp
I doubt it
proud pike
Well, as I recall, someone has already done an archive mission.
On workshop
And moreover, it is very similar to the actual retribution
There are differences, yes. But on the whole it was quite entertaining
so it's quite possible
peak escarp
they might be able to recreate the gameplay, but there's more to the missions than just the gameplay
they can't make the cutscenes or the chatter or write the plot
proud pike
true
cerulean ice
its very possible to make cutscenes (only with playable characters so its up to your creativity)
but again, i doubt it
proud pike
its very possible to make cutscenes (only with playable characters so its up to ...
yeah, true
void gazelle
Overwatch 1.5 lmao
proud pike
peak escarp
didnt that missions used to have
Uprising I think used to end with PotG in the first year, but in later years it skipped it and just did the scoreboard
you can still find highlights/PotGs from the Archives missions on your highlight reel
sharp hamlet
Blizzcon is next saturday correct?
sharp hamlet
i see
lime flax
So there's a post on r/gamingleaksandrumours right now that talks about Overwatch
Most likely fake but it's still interesting because it claims to know all of the future maps and mentions the campaign
I forgot whether or not I can post links here so I'll just leave it at that
peak escarp
looks questionable
dim horizon
Interesting post. Sounds plausible enough, but then fake leaks often do.
This close to Blizzcon though there's no point getting too worked up either for or against it.
We'll have a better idea soon.
limpid agate
So there's a post on r/gamingleaksandrumours right now that talks about Overwatc...
Its fake.
lime flax
I'd say 99% chance it's fake yeah
dim horizon
Eh, who knows. If I had to bet money on it I'd go for fake, but I can't see anything there to make it 100%.
limpid agate
Here
Also, based on what we have seen of it... I think its unlikely that the India map is Utopaea.
Especially after Stone By Stone
dim horizon
Am I missing something with the logo? It's a little squashed but that's hardly a slam-dunk.
Bear in mind I'm not advocating for this leak at all, I'm just saying that in itself doesn't disprove anything outright.
peak escarp
I don't think it would be squashed on official artwork
lime flax
Most likely fake again
but it does label Utopaea as Control so maybe we'd see the temple of aurora
like how Busan is the MEKA base, the city, and the sanctuary
limpid agate
!!wiki Temple_of_Aurora
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Temple_of_Aurora
limpid agate
Suravasa was the name of the village with the temple. It was across the river from Roshani.
Likewise, the description of Suravasa matches the gameplay footage from the trailer.
lime flax
True
dim horizon
Well, as noted, probably not worth the effort even dwelling on the alleged leak.
Given the proximity to official news soon anyway.
limpid agate
Knowing Blizzard
arctic loom
i just read that leak
dim horizon
Not that this will stop a bunch of YouTubers from spamming 10 minute videos about these new "spoilers" anyway if that post gains traction >_<
dim horizon
That's what that post claims, a Hybrid Russia map.
limpid agate
They would more likely make a fictional location like King's Row or Hanamura than use real neighbourhoods like La Boca
Even Toronto is set on a fictional Dundas Avenue. The map is just called Toronto, not "Dundas" or "Chinatown"
lime flax
And I do believe there is a real life Kanezaka in Japan
limpid agate
There are a finite amount of words to make up
There's a real village called Suravasa
It's not ours
dim horizon
Rialto is still a real neighbourhood/part of Venice.
lime flax
And the difference between Kings Row and the real life London Kings Road is a synonym
I dont think it's too farfetched
There have been some pretty wack leaks in the past
This one seems to at least try
dim horizon
The only thing that has me considering it might have some truth behind it is....why would someone lie about maps? A list of map names/location is rather dull for a fake leak. Like if you want o troll people into believing your BS, surely you would target the story campaign.
dim horizon
But even so, general skepticism of Internet stuff has me leaning towards fake.
limpid agate
People believed it
lime flax
The image they used doesn't show up in reverse image search
Just seems like a tinge more effort was put into this leading me to think it could be real
limpid agate
Now the absence of fictional locations
lime flax
Is Kimjeongho a real place
dim horizon
Utopaea and Ecopoint: Kimjeongho would be fictional locations right?
lime flax
All I get is some old dude on wiki
dim horizon
Googling the latter just gives me the name of a geographer.
Which might well fit an ecopoint thematically.
Like naming a place "Fort [Famous Person]"
But honestly, unless this person turns up more supporting evidence, going to pop this into the "probably BS" bin.
And go back to getting excited at what direction the OW1 redesigns will go for certain characters.
limpid agate
One is a place we know. The other is Ecopoint: Person
The Ecopoint being a fictional place os the only question I have here
That makes or breaks it
If they meant it at Ecopoint: Person, then it is 100% fake
arctic loom
well about the leak i know the image is fake but a new map coming to ow 1 would be cool
at least a content
a game mode where mostly of people play
not deathmatch
terse oar
I think finally releasing the reworked Paris and Horizon would be cool
dim horizon
Have they confirmed they're reworking them both for sure?
Like Horizon got reworked once already xD
terse oar
Thatâs what theyâve told us I think
lime flax
They're looking at the entire 2CP gamemode
terse oar
But that was also one a half(?) years ago
lime flax
If they ever change it then the maps would probably come back with it
worn island
I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that they attempted to redesign one of them, then gave up
lyric sluice
i just want a cinematic
peak escarp
we're likely to get one
they've given us a cinematic at Blizzcon every year since launch
limpid agate
We still get hero reveals
lyric sluice
like sorjourns kit 𼰠maybe!
limpid agate
@dim horizon @lime flax Here you go, 100% fake.
dim horizon
Awesome, that settles it.
gusty sluice
how is it fake?
dim horizon
Good to know.
cerulean ice
tattoed sym yes
proud pike
lyric sluice
which cahracters do we not have a cinematic of
iron plume
If you only count main roles:
Orisa, Sigma, Hammond, Zarya
Doomfist, Echo, Pharah, Symmetra, Torbjorn
The whole healer roster
of these, Zarya, Echo and Brigitte have cameos
Brigitte Mercy and Echo are also in Zero Hour
That's if we're just doing the shorts
Moira, Sigma and Hammond are the only ones with no significant presence other than their origin story videos
and Brigitte is featured in a lot but not in a main role
dim horizon
I would argue that Brigitte and Echo have more than "cameos" in their respective appearances - they're supporting players rather than the leads though, certainly.
I'd love a cinematic that shows us the 'fall of Overwatch'. Jack vs Gabe, perhaps as flashbacks intercut with shots of Moira experimenting on Reyes, shaping him into his current form.
But post-Zero Hour, cinematics are probably looking forward rather than back.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the new cinematic barely features any OW1 characters at all. It might focus entirely one one or more of the new characters.
As a way of introducing them and hyping us up to play them, same way the original cinematics did for the first game.
peak escarp
I think they would still involve the core roster
every cinematic so far has included a core roster hero
the only cinematics that introduced a new hero were Infiltration and Reunion
and Infiltration was the only one that focused more on a new hero
dim horizon
True, but also different contexts in the sense that the new cinematics between now and OW2 launch may be more akin to the earlier ones.
In the sense of introducing us to characters we have yet to play as part of the overall marketing push.
peak escarp
the cinematics leading up to OW2 should be establishing the story, which will largely involve core heroes
lament jay
Do you guys think Zenyatta will play a big role or will spear in a unexpected moment
limpid agate
He will be in the India mission at the very least.
I do not think he will contribute too much beyond that. Maybe a couple appearances.
But I do not think he will join Overwatch.
limpid agate
No.
He explicitly left the Shambali because he disagreed with Mondatta's methods
Mondatta was too dogmatic and preachy, while Zenyatta likes to help people on a more personal level.
Zenyatta also gets his hands dirty, and isn't afraid to fight to help people.
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards.
arctic loom
oh you saw that dude
limpid agate
Genji met him after leaving Overwatch/Blackwatch, yes.
vernal smelt
What injuries did genji endure from his battle with Hanzo? Like lost his legs or smn?
burnt geyser
I can beat anyonw in overwatch
proud pike
Ehh.. Okay? Idk how to reply on that
hazy ibex
Tell it to the guys in ow discussion most of us like the actual lore and can't give much advice
hazy ibex
Its suggested that he mostly cut him in half
You can tell what parts are missing in the blackwatch skin, as that shows more of genjis body
limpid agate
There's also the tapestry on Hanamura with the same bisection cut
hazy ibex
Yes
I hope they release sojourn as a hero for ow 1 at blizzconline to make up for ow2 not coming out this year
peak escarp
unlikely
hazy ibex
If a new hero comes out then it would be support
limpid agate
Based on what
peak escarp
Sojourn doesn't seem like a support
hazy ibex
Based on what
Because ashe is dps baptiste is support signa tank echo dps
hazy ibex
Sojourn doesn't seem like a support
Thats the problem
peak escarp
we've had 2 of the same role in a row before
limpid agate
SDTDSSTDSTD
peak escarp
Moira/Brigitte
hazy ibex
Ok
limpid agate
If you include Sojourn then it is most likely