?
#lore-discussion
proud pike
Yes, I see it
limpid agate
Get to the point
finite urchin
i wasnt
proud pike
What the hell is going on?
finite urchin
how blizzard acknowledges the existence of miniguns, you can legit see the guy who pulls a minigun out of the pinatas, and the heavy assaults
proud pike
I dont understand
finite urchin
but there's no minigun hero
bastion doesnt count
like
dude
minigun heroes are amazing
limpid agate
Mauga
finite urchin
add one
proud pike
Orisa maybe?
finite urchin
it doesnt really have the sheer aggression and firepower of a stereotypical minigun hero
like, yeah, the mechanic is exactly what i asked for
but
but
it isnt strong enough
proud pike
I don't understand the point of this conversation
finite urchin
to make you seem like a large threat
proud pike
A bit
finite urchin
my point is
i mean
i was just kinda scared when i heard a prototype design for mauga included rocket launchers instead of miniguns
limpid agate
1 - This is lore discussion
2 - There are 2 minigun archetypes in game (Orisa and Bastion), plus Mauga who is a Heavy Assault (Dual wields Miniguns.)
proud pike
I was talking about Jack beating up a bandit with a pinata, what's that got to do with the minigun and Orisa?
etc
finite urchin
2 - bastion is a sick fraud, he's a fucking turret not a minigun
2 - orisa lacks the firepower and scariness a minigun hero should have
her weapon's too weak
proud pike
But its still a machine gun
limpid agate
Again, this is lore discussion.
finite urchin
but it's
limpid agate
Not gameplay discussion
proud pike
True
finite urchin
ok
but im talking about things that could be added to the game
which channel is that for?
proud pike
proud pike
#general-discussion too maybe
finite urchin
no, i think generals more of off topic chat
but ok
anyway, i just got excited, bc i remember the minigun dude from hero
proud pike
So.... You are welcome to speak about your ideas on #overwatch
finite urchin
the one that pulled the gun out of the pinatas
proud pike
But not here
proud pike
I mean... here too, but another ideas
proud pike
yea, thx
finite urchin
ok thx too
proud pike
yep
worthy rose
@tired pivot I don't think theres much you can talk about in a versus debate.Most characters in Ow are featless afaik
valid terrace
It's just hard to gauge who would win without it being a very specific scenario
Plus Sigma and Echo are big unknowns when it comes to how strong they really are
proud pike
I'm not sure about Echo, she doesn't look super strong or smth
tired pivot
@worthy rose Yeah, dude the max feat for OW is large building level and me and a group did a debate which was Overwatch and Null Sector vs The U.S. and German army of WW2 and Overwatch and Null Sector lost bad
Plus in there we basically realized that Tracer really didn’t win against Scout from tf2
We basically debunked death battle
peak escarp
I don't see the point of debates like that
tired pivot
It’s mostly out of boredom or we just do it for the fun of it
peak escarp
I once spent an entire 8 hour work shift trying to decide who would win in a fight between Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne, so I get that
but usually when I see people doing those versus debates, they fail to take into account the personality of the characters
tired pivot
The reason why she lost was because Scout was way more powerful in Lore, he basically went through 1/3’s of Gray manns robots before he died, he took three missiles in meet the medic which look way bigger than Tracers grenade, was able to take a hit and even get strangled by Saxton Hale who can casually punch at 2,500+ kg while Tracer can’t even take a stomp from Widow, I get that she hit her cronal accelerator but at the same time other characters from different universes have taken way more in their weak spots
tired pivot
I once spent an entire 8 hour work shift trying to decide who would win in a fig...
Bruce Wayne
tired pivot
And to think Scout can get revived by, I shit you not, god himself
tired pivot
my conclusion was that I couldn't think of a justifiable reason for them to figh...
In the comics they have different variations on why they fight
But anyway sure Tracer can be considered faster than scout (kinda) but Scouts durability, weapons and even his strength trumps Tracer’s without even trying
peak escarp
in my mind, for any discussion of "who would win" among the Overwatch heroes, the victor will always be one of the villains
regardless of actual strength
because the good guys wouldn't fight to the death
tired pivot
Yeah but at the same time if mercenaries from the future and even futuristic robots can’t even handle soldiers from the 40’s then that’s actually a problem and it needs to be fixed
peak escarp
what
tired pivot
<@456226577798135808> Yeah, dude the max feat for OW is large building level and...
This
peak escarp
why would Overwatch heroes lose to WWII soldiers?
tired pivot
Well if the Schwerer Gustave, the Maus tank, the T-28/95, the T-34 American tank, the ME-262, the BF-110, the Amerika bomber, the B-29, the little boy and fat man bombs, and even the average sherman didn’t exist then Overwatch and Null Sector could’ve had a chance
Plus the fact that in the shorts Null Sectors infantry can’t even take tracers pistols and their weapons can’t even penetrate car bodies
tired pivot
Well if the Schwerer Gustave, the Maus tank, the T-28/95, the T-34 American tank...
And to think that isn’t even scratching the surface of what they made
peak escarp
the little boy and fat man bombs
tired pivot
The nukes
peak escarp
I don't think it's fair to include those
tired pivot
Btw back then they were just standard bombs
peak escarp
they were two unique objects, not mass produced
and it's not really a fair debate
first off, you'd never get the Americans and the Germans fighting on the same side
tired pivot
Even if we take them out they still have the schwerer gustave, and V1 rockets (mini nukes) they were enough to take down an entire city block and to think V1 rockets were standard issue
peak escarp
same goes for Null Sector and Overwatch
it would be a 4-way free for all, not a 2v2
Null Sector can just produce more units, so they would just outlast everyone else
probably wouldn't even have to resort to biological agents, just outlive everyone
tired pivot
Yeah but at the same time both the US and German army combined are 32.2 million soldiers
tired pivot
And even then their standard robot infantry can’t even handle pistols nor would their weapons be able to kill people with one shot
peak escarp
or their real power scale, since the heroes they fight against have plot armor
tired pivot
Plus they even had tank buster snipers which are enough to penetrate shermans and tiger 1’s
tired pivot
or their real power scale, since the heroes they fight against have plot armor
Debatable
peak escarp
consider Reaper - he's supposed to be a terrifyingly deadly mercenary, yet every time he comes up against a hero character he gets soundly beaten
plot armor has a lot of power in Overwatch
so it's not a fair discussion to pit fictional characters against real life armies
tired pivot
Also we don’t really add plot armor as a power scale mainly because it’s used all the time and most of the time it’s not even true, this is why fate manipulation and plot armor isn’t used or backed by anyone since it can basically be debunked easily
peak escarp
if Overwatch and Null Sector was in real life, they would have whatever weaponry is present in the 2070s, which would easily outclass anything from the 1940s
proud pike
plot armor has a lot of power in Overwatch
Monke...
tired pivot
consider Reaper - he's supposed to be a terrifyingly deadly mercenary, yet every...
You also need to think about the fact that Tracer failed to stop Widow basically debunking that they have plot armor
peak escarp
Mondatta didn't have plot armor
he had the opposite of plot armor
his character was made to be killed
tired pivot
Yeah but if even one character doesn’t have plot armor that means no one does, now you see why people don’t use plot armor as a scale
peak escarp
that's not how plot armor works
tired pivot
Also Reaper is weak as hell
proud pike
''Primal rage'' is a giant plot armor thing
peak escarp
plot armor only protects whoever the plot requires it to
it can be as selective as the writers want
proud pike
No, I meant not a ''Monk'' but ''Monkey''
tired pivot
plot armor only protects whoever the plot requires it to
Yeah but it isn’t a scenario where it’s a giant story
And even then who are the writers in this scenario
And even then what weaponry do they have that trumps WW2 weapons?
proud pike
Tbh I feel sorry for Talon a bit....
peak escarp
this is why you can't have a hypothetical fight between fictional characters and real humans and get a satisfactory answer
proud pike
Like...
tired pivot
Even death battle doesn’t use Plot armor as an ability
proud pike
''Oh... You almost download all the OW heroes database?''
''Nah, fu. Winston has primal rage''
peak escarp
because either the fight is fictional, in which case plot armor exists and the winner is whoever the writer (or the person doing the hypothetical) wants to win, or the fight takes place in the real world
tired pivot
Literally no one in the Vs battle community does
peak escarp
if the fight takes place in the real world, then you still can't make the comparison, because you don't know what stats the Overwatch heroes would have when converted to real world technology
tired pivot
But it can be any scenario
proud pike
Or...
''Hey, You've neutralized the entire strike force, nice!''
''Nope, still nope.... Winston has primal rage''
etc...
tired pivot
Dude you’re digging way too deep in this and if we are talking about area or time it doesn’t really matter
proud pike
Can we delete primal rage and ban Winston cause cheats?
tired pivot
Even Winstons primal rage isn’t enough to go through a platoon of German Soldiers with MG-42’s
peak escarp
you're the one who came up with a list of outdated military hardware that can supposedly beat superheroes from the 2070s
tired pivot
And to think Wermatchts are considered way more accurate shooters than any branch of the German military at the time
proud pike
Even Winstons primal rage isn’t enough to go through a platoon of German Soldier...
It is, u know? Cause scenario
tired pivot
you're the one who came up with a list of outdated military hardware that can su...
Well what technology can trump their weapons?
tired pivot
It is, u know? Cause **scenario**
Ok
That doesn’t really back the claim but alright then
peak escarp
Well what technology can trump their weapons?
future technology
stuff that doesn't exist yet
proud pike
its just.... unfair?
peak escarp
I don't know, I'm not from the 2070s
proud pike
I mean, c'mon... can Talon win at once?
tired pivot
future technology
That isn’t really an argument name weapons that can trump theirs just because it’s futuristic doesn’t mean that it’s automatically better
peak escarp
well, modern day guns and weapons could beat them
so it's logical to assume weapons would only improve with time
tired pivot
Sombra is basically useless in that situation since she can’t even hack anything but her team mates and the robots
peak escarp
she can hack anything with a computer
tired pivot
You do know that the MG-42 was made in the mid stages of the war and is still a weapon used by Germany and other countries
tired pivot
Look up the MG-3 and teh MG-42 they’re literally the exact same thing
peak escarp
all guns are the same
tired pivot
Plus they also had tank buster snipers meaning even a robot the size of winston or even Winston himself won’t stand a chance against them
tired pivot
all guns are the same
Not even
That’s like saying every gun is a pistol because the M1911 is a pistol
peak escarp
sure
tired pivot
It’s true dude
peak escarp
okay
peak escarp
probably
tired pivot
Thats the Schwere Gustav it’s basically city block level
fringe blade
This is a very pointless discussion
peak escarp
I'll just make up an answer, because there isn't one
fringe blade
Cause there isn't a definitive answer, that's why
Its up to your own interpretation
Or not even interpretation
peak escarp
we don't know every detail about the weapons that Null Sector has
they could have weapons that could vaporize entire armies
it's fiction, they could have whatever power the writers need them to have
tired pivot
Yeah but there is aspects here and there in the shorts and comics and thats what we are rolling with
peak escarp
there isn't enough data to make an informed conculsion
tired pivot
it's fiction, they could have whatever power the writers need them to have
Yeah but at the same time the writers would also have to imagine the scenario which they won’t the writers can’t help them here
tired pivot
But we don’t need writers to show and explain what would happen
fringe blade
Gwishin?
peak escarp
I don't think so
peak escarp
the Gwishin only attack Korea, and have been doing so since the omnic crisis
Null Sector is a more recent development and is everywhere
fringe blade
AFAIK, we also don't know the Gwishin's motivations for their attacks, do we?
peak escarp
nope
fathom tartan
Uh they don't like koreans
tired pivot
Well they failed to take over the world and they failed going up against two armies combined from the 40’s
peak escarp
Well they failed to take over the world and they failed going up against two arm...
we're talking about actual lore now
fathom tartan
I don't think Korea split In ow did they
fathom tartan
I suppose
tired pivot
Blizzard really really really needs to buff Overwatch up that is not ok
fringe blade
What do you mean
peak escarp
why, because they lose in your hypothetical scenario?
well in my hypothetical scenario, they win
fathom tartan
What's this hypothetical
tired pivot
Like in power levels they need to buff them now
tired pivot
well in my hypothetical scenario, they win
How?
tired pivot
Not how it works bud
fringe blade
It feels very pointless
peak escarp
it is pointless
tired pivot
Why?
fathom tartan
And before he even says ow loses in any battle take into consideration they have a ape that figered out the paradoxical situation of time a cyborg ninja that can seemingly deflect anything and a lady who uses time at her will
peak escarp
because they would never fight
tired pivot
Dude even I tried to defend Overwatch and I had to man up and realize that they lost
fathom tartan
To what
tired pivot
I literally said the exact same things you’re saying right now to my group where we had that debate
fathom tartan
Ow also has the most overpowering feature: plot armor
tired pivot
Not an ability we count bud
peak escarp
I count it
fringe blade
Why would you not count it
peak escarp
it's a major part of Overwatch's story
tired pivot
Because it’s really easy to debunk and it’s also really easy to be used on both sides
So really if we added plot armor even one good guy doesn’t have it means that the rest don’t
peak escarp
I told you, that's not how plot armor works
fringe blade
That's not what plot armour means though
fringe blade
^
tired pivot
And even then the writers aren’t there to help you can’t really dictate the results
fathom tartan
Wanna know why soilder and reaper didn't just die like they should've from a expulsion
Plot armor
peak escarp
it works for the good guys to make sure they don't lose to the bad guys (unless the plot needs them to lose)
tired pivot
Wanna know why soilder and reaper didn't just die like they should've from a exp...
No because they’re extremely weak
peak escarp
they survived an explosion because they're weak?
fathom tartan
tired pivot
it works for the good guys to make sure they don't lose to the bad guys (unless ...
If that’s true death battle would’ve been using plot armor in every death battle they do
peak escarp
what does death battle have to do with this?
fathom tartan
what
tired pivot
they survived an explosion because they're weak?
No but literally dying by electricity is
peak escarp
who died by electricity?
tired pivot
they survived an explosion because they're weak?
And how bug was the explosion
peak escarp
enough to destroy the Overwatch HQ
tired pivot
who died by electricity?
Reaper with the failed shield
peak escarp
he didn't die
fathom tartan
Hemilock high af
tired pivot
enough to destroy the Overwatch HQ
Building level isn’t even that powerful it’s average at best
fathom tartan
They were in the building
tired pivot
Thats why Bulding level really isn’t that powerful it’s average at best
fathom tartan
Bro
tired pivot
You do know that Mr. Sandman from punch out punched out a building as well right?
fathom tartan
Your trolling
peak escarp
what does that have to do with anything?
fathom tartan
Can we get him a warning or something he either zooted or trolling
fathom tartan
You high then
fringe blade
Punch Out has nothing to do with OW
tired pivot
If I was I would’ve either, send things that are inappropriate, flat out say that Overwatch is garbage which I’m not I’m actually recommending that Blizzard needs to get a grip, and even supporting it as game just because I like it doesn’t mean that it’s free of criticism
peak escarp
the heroes in Overwatch are as strong/powerful as the story needs them to be
their power level compared to anything outside the OW universe is irrelevant
tired pivot
But the story really isn’t helping them in this situation
peak escarp
this situation is irrelevant
tired pivot
You can’t really dictate the results unless it’s cheated
tired pivot
this situation is irrelevant
It isn’t
So yeah saying that you can because you want doesn’t change the results sorry dude, and I get how you feel
fringe blade
I don't really understand what you are trying to argue
peak escarp
I don't either
tired pivot
Scroll up
peak escarp
nothing you have said has any relevance to the lore of Overwatch
tired pivot
Yeah but that’s not really how it works in vs battles
peak escarp
vs battles aren't relevant either
fringe blade
It works how the writers decide it will work
tired pivot
vs battles aren't relevant either
Again saying that they win because you want them to or saying that it isn’t relevant isn’t an argument
That’s literally not how vs debates work
peak escarp
I'm not arguing
tired pivot
Ok
fathom tartan
Take any goku vs Winston or whatever to general or ow
fringe blade
I dont understand what you are not understanding
peak escarp
versus debates are pointless and irrelevant to the lore of Overwatch
tired pivot
I dont understand what you are not understanding
Me neither dude
tired pivot
versus debates are pointless and irrelevant to the lore of Overwatch
You just said that you don’t want to argue yet you are still trying to dictate what you can’t control
peak escarp
am I wrong?
tired pivot
Yes
peak escarp
how is it relevant to the lore of Overwatch?
fringe blade
What relevance do versus battles have
fathom tartan
Hey look it's someone who will care for what you're saying #overwatch
last inlet
Lore-d is only for discussion of the lore of overwatch, not other IPs
tired pivot
how is it relevant to the lore of Overwatch?
Because trying making it irrelevant to the story doesn’t automatically make it irrelevant
iron plume
Nobody is trying to make it irrelevant because it already is
last inlet
It being irrelevant to the story makes it irrelevant
tired pivot
Again you can’t really dictate anything in vs debates
iron plume
This is not a debate
fathom tartan
Ight someone hit him with a offical warning for not using this chat properly
peak escarp
Overwatch heroes losing in a hypothetical vs debate has nothing to do with Overwatch lore
last inlet
or even winning, for that matter
tired pivot
It being irrelevant to the story makes it irrelevant
But it’s a vs battle it doesn’t need the story other than their abilities and power levels
peak escarp
that's why it's irrelevant
tired pivot
Other than that lore means crap
tired pivot
If it doesn't need the story, why is it here
Only for abilities and power scales
fringe blade
That's not story
peak escarp
well the lore means everything here
fathom tartan
Someone give him a strike
tired pivot
This is not a debate
I know it keeps going back and forth
fringe blade
If you are not talking about lore, you are not in the right channel
tired pivot
What am I doing?
fringe blade
VS battles are not lore unless they are completely relevant
last inlet
Not a whole lot of the mods who actually check these channels are on rn
unless Jewv is lurking
peak escarp
he's not on
fathom tartan
Cant you warn him six
fringe blade
Doc isn't a mod
last inlet
Six isn't staff
peak escarp
wouldn't do anything
tired pivot
If you are not talking about lore, you are not in the right channel
But I am using lore for power scales and if I’m on the wrong channel then I could just note the things I said here and use it there
last inlet
It wouldn't even be appropriate in ow-d tbh
fathom tartan
We need a mod this mf gonna make me go crazy
tired pivot
You don’t have to be part of it if you don’t want to
last inlet
The only place it'd go is g-d and no one will care there
pliant sparrow
What r u all debating
last inlet
no one is debating
fathom tartan
We aren't debating this man is just a idiot
fringe blade
He's not an idiot
proud pike
Who is an idiot?
tired pivot
<@456226577798135808> Yeah, dude the max feat for OW is large building level and...
This
last inlet
bruh
fathom tartan
And he's using the lore channel completely wrong and it's making me angry
tired pivot
I’m not really trying to offend anyone I’m just saying the truth, facts don’t care about anyones feelings man
iron plume
ah
last inlet
Fictional characters vs actual armies of the past is not what goes in lore-d
iron plume
Should've known
proud pike
Lets just live in peace? 
peak escarp
we tried discussing actual lore, but he kept bringing it up
pliant sparrow
Wut
tired pivot
Lets just live in peace? <:ZenDisappointed:585663962918551555>
Alright
proud pike
tired pivot
And if I am in the wrong channel then I apologize and I’m sorry for bringing it up but either way I can still use the same facts in a different channel
pliant sparrow
iron plume
Then go ahead and do just that
tired pivot
Ok
fathom tartan
Yes go to #overwatch I'm sure they'll love you there
last inlet
go to general discussion, but I don't know if they'll take to it
and don't go to ow-d
tired pivot
I might go to sleep it’s 4 am for me
tired pivot
I have been keeping it serious
tired pivot
But I’m not shitposting
fathom tartan
Anyway
Last time I saw lore discussing it was about the book and I also found it kinda silly and almost lore bending that doomfist was knocked back by that
peak escarp
why
fathom tartan
Considering tracers bullets didn't even phase him to be fair her bullets seem so weak in lore
And the only thing in his anime short thing ti even make him move when he didn't want to was primal punch
fathom tartan
Oh yeah
That should
*shield
Think that's personalized hard light body armor sense symetras boss is on the table at talon and could probably get df cool stuff
peak escarp
Efi didn’t wait another second before she turned on the sonic cannon. There was no time for testing. No time for bugs. This had to work. She played a single note. It was so loud, it knocked her off her feet. The glass of the building across the way shattered, and Doomfist was knocked off target, landing several meters away from Lúcio. It was still enough to daze Lúcio, but he pulled himself up and got away. Efi fired again, and the next building over shuddered, a giant crack winding all the way to the top.
peak escarp
a sonic canon made out of concert speakers
pliant sparrow
Pretty sure sound that can put a crack in a building has more power behind it than bullets
fathom tartan
Tracer's bullets suck though
Like in-game makes them seem super good but from what we've seen in shorts they dont do anything
peak escarp
they're as strong as the plot needs them to be
pliant sparrow
Most bullets seem to do almost nothing against shielding
fathom tartan
Not to mention for a pilot she sure has some sloppy aim
peak escarp
when she was fighting Doomfist and Widowmaker, she didn't need to win
fathom tartan
Also
Can we talk about how we haven't seen anything genji cant deflect besides beams
peak escarp
again, it does what the plot needs it to
fathom tartan
In zero hour he deflected that huge shot
peak escarp
a lot of abilities are plot-driven
fathom tartan
And from what we've seen as long as its soidl and can be deflected it can be
I'm just wondering what his upper limits are
valid terrace
If it's a projectile that's solid, he can send it back
Assuming it isn't as big as he is
red root
😾
pliant sparrow
Wouldn't call energy blasts 'solid'
valid terrace
They seem to function that way
pliant sparrow
Do you mean solid as in the state of matter
Or solid as in they don't phase through things
young knoll
energy is just matter in another form
pliant sparrow
Yes
finite urchin
```Efi didn’t wait another second before she turned on the sonic cannon. There w...
ok, so this is what i was complaining about
doomfist cant possibly be this weak?
being a doomfist fanatic, i'll just take it as doomfist without his shields
peak escarp
he was weak because he got pushed a bit by a sonic cannon?
a sonic cannon that cracked buildings btw
worthy rose
evening all
flint swift
ebning
worthy rose
if we never seen reapers face how do we not know after the accident he was brought back with omnic features
peak escarp
because that's not how omnics work
worthy rose
ok 😦
junior brook
lets talk about the fact that moira is attractive
and how people who say otherwise are immature
quick crown
worthy rose
thats him before the accident
peak escarp
I think if he was made a cyborg they would have mentioned it
he's got his wraith powers instead
worthy rose
he got his powers from moira before the accident
finite urchin
a sonic cannon that *cracked buildings* btw
Ok, but he also couldnt shatter orisa’s shield
peak escarp
Orisa was literally built to counter Doomfist
lorewise, it makes sense that her shield stops him
pliant sparrow
Shields also don't seem that easy to shatter
limpid agate
They appear a lot more rigid in universe than they do in game
worthy rose
@finite urchin That just makes Orisa's shields impressive its not really a low showing for Doomfist
valid terrace
Yeah she's literally built with his strengths and weaknesses in mind
He absolutely thrashed the default models
It's impressive he could hold his own anyway
peak escarp
Doomfist destroyed the OR15s with his handcannon, so Efi gave her a shield to block it
Doomfist knocked the OR15s around, so Efi made her sturdy enough not to be pushed around
Doomfist has high mobility and moves around quickly, so Efi gave her something to grab him with
Doomfist wants to divide people, so Efi gave Orisa the supercharger to help people move in harmony
(might be a little stretching, but it works)
terse oar
Your point?
finite urchin
My point?
peak escarp
Orisa is a civic defense project of a middle schooler who happens to be a genius
finite urchin
So, orisa is literally an enhanced or15
From a dude who knocked winston half a mile away, to someone who couldnt land a hit on a small fry
terse oar
Enhanced exactly to counter Doomfist
finite urchin
Orisa isnt produced using state of the art materials
She’s made up of salvaged stuff
Imagine if orisa was mass produced
Doomfist...would be beat just like that?
terse oar
She’s upgraded with state of the art material though, which Efi bought with her grant
worthy rose
@finite urchin just because Doomfist could knock Winston a mile away doesn't mean he's fast enough to hit said small fry
finite urchin
<@508668111273328670> just because Doomfist could knock Winston a mile away does...
Fast?
worthy rose
Well you did say couldn't land a hit on a small fry so I assume you meant Orisa was evading his attacks or something
finite urchin
She never evaded anything, but she tanked them quite well
It’s a comparison of strength
Kinda weird??
trim scroll
Who do you think would win? Saitama or doomfist?
finite urchin
Doomfist destroyed the OR15s with his handcannon, so Efi gave her a shield to bl...
So orisa is tons stronger than winston?
Dude
peak escarp
theoretically
finite urchin
No shitposting
peak escarp
omnics are stronger than a genetically enhanced gorilla
robots don't have organic limitations
trim scroll
Damn I just wanted to ask
finite urchin
Ok, so i guess orisa is like hundred times stronger
trim scroll
Don’t take lore so seriously 😐
peak escarp
they are limited by the structural integrity of their components
trim scroll
What u guys debating anyway
peak escarp
Don’t take lore so seriously 😐
this is a serious discussion channel
finite urchin
In rhe overwatch novel
finite urchin
Orisa tanks doomfist’s atracks
worthy rose
@finite urchin That would make Orisa more durable than Winston don't see the problem here
finite urchin
Im just disappointed that doomfist was so downplayed
finite urchin
<@508668111273328670> That would make Orisa more durable than Winston don't see ...
Wow
The problem is that
worthy rose
Doesn't really seem to be downplay imo
trim scroll
Can I have some lore on lucio other then the fact that he was a dj
peak escarp
But it was too late. Doomfist’s gauntlet had already recharged. He punched it into Orisa’s barrier. It lit up brilliantly from the impact, but held tight. They circled each other, Doomfist attacking, Orisa defending. With all of Orisa’s upgrades, she was finally an even match for him, and with Lúcio’s help, there was no way they could lose.
finite urchin
His father was the one who made it in the first place thi
trim scroll
He stole sonic tech from viksahr
Alright
worthy rose
Winston getting ko ed by a pod to the head is downplay not Orisa tanking Doomfist
peak escarp
Orisa had Lucio's help, and was able to defend against Doomfist but not really take the offensive
once their syncronization was thrown off, they couldn't fight effectively, and Efi had to save the day
finite urchin
First, can we assume that orisa is basically a polished up or15?
A lot stronger
But not exactly on another level?
peak escarp
yes
finite urchin
OR15s are hunks of metal and doomfist was able to punch one to narnia, yet he couldnt break orisa’s barrier
peak escarp
the OR15s didn't have Orisa's barrier
finite urchin
Ok, so barriers are apparently overpowered in overwatch lore
peak escarp
yes
Doomfist can't punch through one, but sustained fire will eventually bring it down
finite urchin
If even a legendary character like doomfist, rumored to level skyscrapers couldnt budge one
I know it’s not confirmed
But to be rumored to do that
U need to be hella strong
peak escarp
“Fire at that shield,” he commanded his lieutenants. “Bring it down!”
The lieutenants stepped forward and began to fire. Bullets struck the shield relentlessly, slowly damaging it. Finally, it gave way, leaving Orisa’s energy reserves drained, and completely out in the open.```this is consistent with what we see in Honor and Glory with the Crusaders' shields
finite urchin
Ha, so apparently bullets are stronger than doomfist
worthy rose
Ow characters have inconsistent feats sometimes lol
peak escarp
a lot of bullets
finite urchin
So? Doomfist has a superweapon
worthy rose
I don't think a lot of bullets would be able to make craters like Doom did
worthy rose
Or send a two ton car flying
finite urchin
Wait
Stahp
Doomfist wasnt tickled the least bit by tracer, who used bullets that could take down nulltroopers
While normal famas bullets couldnt
peak escarp
her shots hit Doomfist's personal shields
see, this is the thing about power levels in Overwatch - they are as weak or as strong as the plot needs them to be
peak escarp
in Infiltration, Reaper took down a mech singlehandedly, but in Recall, he was defeated by Winston's tickle gun
finite urchin
Exactly
worthy rose
Yeah one minute Reaper fights Tracer and Winston at the same time then loses to a grandma
peak escarp
to be fair, he was probably holding back against Ana
finite urchin
U know what? We shoulda just agreed with this in the first place, and no more argument
Plus
worthy rose
Why would he?
finite urchin
Reaper wasnt using his guns
peak escarp
of all the people he's fought, she's the one person he probably doesn't want to hurt
Reyes and Ana were close friends
finite urchin
of all the people he's fought, she's the one person he probably doesn't want to ...
Yeah!!!
Remember his voiceline too!
“Guess ur going back on my list”
worthy rose
Also the time when Winston got few shotted by Reaper lol
finite urchin
Means that he didnt intend in the first place to target her
peak escarp
in Old Soldiers, he was looking for Jack
Ana was surprise
well, he was looking for whoever was sabotaging Hakim's operations, and just assumed it was Jack
he's a supersoldier - the only way he'd lose a hand to hand fight with an old woman is if he was holding back
finite urchin
Ana’s a supersoldier too right?
worthy rose
No
finite urchin
Oh ok guess that was something else i thought of
peak escarp
only Jack and Reyes
finite urchin
Yeah
peak escarp
Ana is just a good sniper
finite urchin
Yeah
peak escarp
I want to see the story behind this photo
in Bastet they said it's from a mission in Rio
worthy rose
Doubt we ever will
peak escarp
three looking young and optimistic, though Gabriel already
showed signs of the stress of leadership weighing upon him.
They’d just won a major battle in Rio de Janeiro. “I remember
the beach,” Ana smiled. “We look so serious in this picture—it’s
funny!”```really I just want more with the three of them
present day or golden age
finite urchin
I want more on null sector
Oh yeah
Didnt they say something about pve missions specifically made for the characters too?
peak escarp
Story Missions will be story-based missions that progress the story of Overwatch vs. Null Sector/Talon
finite urchin
Like, personal pve missions that mainly focus on a single character as well
Idk what they called it
finite urchin
I hope they do
I wish they’d include character specific pve missions
Wonder if we’ll see some villian pve missions too though
peak escarp
if they cover any stories focusing on single characters, it will probably be outside the game
peak escarp
we could have Talon PvE missions, but we'd need a faction for them to fight
like Helix
finite urchin
Yeah, or maybe overwatch in a flashback
peak escarp
flashback is tricky, because you have to find a time period that makes sense for the heroes involved
Sigma is a recent recruit
Baptiste left 4 years ago
Widowmaker joined around 7 years ago
Moira is also around that time
and Doomfist wasn't a Talon leader until about 8 years ago (and was put in jail 6 years ago)
doing a present day mission against Helix or UN soldiers would be easier
finite urchin
True
And maybe not using overwatch would kinda symbolize how they truly did help make the world better
limpid agate
Or rather the fact that Overwatch is like, 10 people.
fathom tartan
Well ow is echo mercy mei Winston genji rein brig and tracer as of present day
Dunno if that'll change
Oh well I think torb and bastion join ow as well
fathom tartan
Well bastion is with torb
Lucio just helps out with the first misson
Because it's his city
peak escarp
it looked like he was joining them, since he appeared at Watchpoint Gibraltar
fathom tartan
Smh
Everyone knows retire dosent ever mean retired
He still goes to the call of duty
peak escarp
he also doesn't agree with how they treated Reinhardt
fathom tartan
Dont you remember the comic where he took down the mech
peak escarp
and in the gameplay trailer, Reinhardt and Brigitte have to go to his home to talk to him
and also the devs said he isn't joining because he's retired
fathom tartan
Well that means bastion probably isn't joining
fathom tartan
Well bastion is like torbs project
limpid agate
If you do have a Talon PvE mission
It can't be against Overwatch
Even if there were 10 times as many members, that's not enough for 1 missions
Especially considering 10% minimum of them are heroes.
Contrast to Helix, which does have the numbers and motivation to be an enemy faction,
strong spoke
wait theres an in game like campaign??
limpid agate
That is what Overwatch 2 is
finite urchin
Or rather the fact that Overwatch is like, 10 people.
? Wasn’t overwatch an entire organization?
peak escarp
it was
finite urchin
It was
peak escarp
then it got disbanded
limpid agate
flashback is tricky, because you have to find a time period that makes sense for the heroes involved
Sigma is a recent recruit
Baptiste left 4 years ago
Widowmaker joined around 7 years ago
Moira is also around that time
and Doomfist wasn't a Talon leader until about 8 years ago (and was put in jail 6 years ago)
doing a present day mission against Helix or UN soldiers would be easier
How does this help your case?
peak escarp
a flashback mission is possible but unlikely
finite urchin
You stated overwatch was a mere 10 people
limpid agate
It is.
limpid agate
And what I quoted is a post about how the past would be its own problem
There is no long term value in making an Overwatch enemy faction that is only relevant for 1 mission.
peak escarp
I did
finite urchin
Oh i meant @limpid agate
limpid agate
^
finite urchin
Not u
limpid agate
Why would I need to repeat what was already said
finite urchin
Wait
Wait
Sorry pepega moment
Yeah u said that flashback is tricky bc people joined talon at different times
I guess u were implying the same?
limpid agate
Even if you add Mauga
There is only one time where you maybe have 4 members of Talon
Prior to present day
peak escarp
missions have a minimum requirement of 4 members and at least 1 support
peak escarp
I don't think we'll get many more flashback missions - the ones we got for Archives were specifically chosen to set up OW2
maybe for a special event down the road we could get some Omnic Crisis missions, but they'd have to make mission-exclusive kits for Reyes, Morrison and Ana
so I doubt it
it's more likely we'll get a novel/short story/animated short that covers it
fringe blade
I wonder if they are going to experiment with the '4-player' mission setup in OW2
It would open some very interesting avenues for missions IMO
peak escarp
I prefer 4-player missions
valid terrace
With the upcoming talent system or whatever it's called, making custom kits might not be too far fetched
worn knoll
lol someone warned me to not shitpost in lore discussion
btw who was that guy doomfist was talking to in the storm rising
and when will he be relatable in the lore
swift mason
We don’t know who that omnic is yet, but we have a feeling that he could be related to null sector, and possibly playing a big part in OW2
proud pike
We don’t know who that omnic is yet, but we have a feeling that he could be rela...
where did we first see him?
p.s.
||A little offtopic, but, please, check something||
swift mason
We first see him in the end cutscene for storm rising
And that’s all we have of him for the moment
dim horizon
Null Hector. Looks like a cross between Reaper and Zenyatta, I'd be very surprised if he isn't one of the launch heroes.
peak escarp
Null Hector. Looks like a cross between Reaper and Zenyatta, I'd be very surpris...
you mean for OW2?
finite urchin
We don’t know who that omnic is yet, but we have a feeling that he could be rela...
The overwatch team themselves have confirmed that omnic is the leader of null sector
dim horizon
Yep, I'm expecting him for OW2 launch.
peak escarp
yeah, I'd like that
peak escarp
The overwatch team themselves have confirmed that omnic is the leader of null se...
it's not really confirmed, but heavily implied
finite urchin
btw who was that guy doomfist was talking to in the storm rising
The overwatch team have confirmed that omnic is the leader of null sector
finite urchin
it's not really confirmed, but heavily implied
No
peak escarp
source?
finite urchin
Read the wiki
worn knoll
The overwatch team have confirmed that omnic is the leader of null sector
Isn’t that mondatta
peak escarp
the wiki isn't a source
worn knoll
I thought mondatta was the leader
peak escarp
Mondatta was the omnic that Widowmaker shot
finite urchin
the wiki isn't a source
Gamepedia
finite urchin
peak escarp
yes, I can see that
but the statement "This omnic is the leader of the extremist group Null Sector and an unknown associate of Talon. " does not have a source
finite urchin
I need some time to find an actual source
peak escarp
the nearest thing is Jeff saying that he had to put his plans on hold while Doomfist was in prison, but now that he's out he can continue
finite urchin
Ok, well there’s no actual sauce that is still accessible but jeff kaplan confirmed on a stream
Ohnickel’s stream, maybe
Anyway, take my word for it, that omnic is null sector’s leader 100%
peak escarp
I believe you
finite urchin
Isn’t that mondatta
You’ve got a lot to learn buddy, that’s the monk shot by widow
peak escarp
I just object to calling something "confirmed" without providing a source
peak escarp
yes, the highlights are on youtube
I was scanning through it to see if I can find where he says it
finite urchin
Ok
peak escarp
but it's still 20 minutes and I don't have the time right now
finite urchin
Never mind
Im sorry
I guess jeff said “but that’s a cliff hanger”
On the omnic?
finite urchin
Isn’t that mondatta
Nevermind, we dont know anything about the omnic just yet
I read the notes from the stream
Written by a VERIFIED user
peak escarp
but based on his design, and the fact that he's working with Doomfist, it's very likely that he's the Null Sector leader
finite urchin
Very likely, highly implied
fathom tartan
I wonder what the year 2020 was like in ow lore
opaque tundra
A year kids learn about in history books, that's for sure
unreal tartan
I can’t imagine that it was anything like the year actually turned out to be
peak escarp
don't you mean beginning?
last inlet
End of one, beginning of another
peak escarp
no, I mean, decades go from 0-9
so 2020 was the start of the decade, not 2021
anyway, here's hoping we get more lore this year in the leadup to OW2, and get some of our lingering questions answered
last inlet
Right you right
worn knoll
so 2020 was the start of the decade, not 2021
So your saying this decade started the worse of the fucking worst?
flat rampart
winged dragon
So your saying this decade started the worse of the fucking worst?
We just getting started🥲
arctic loom
well what we can expect
from overwatch
in 2021
ow 2 early? beta?
the new map coming this month right?
valid terrace
Bare minimum is the map, BlizzCon, and the 2 comics for LC
But very likely a full release this year after a beta period
Potentially next year but at least we'll have some actual updates on a time
valid terrace
Is that confirmed or just a prediction?
arctic loom
is just what i think
worthy rose
Ah, the good old days when genji didn’t exist to dive your backline
arctic loom
still dont makes sense to me be on november... the release
almost a whole year
without a new hero?
peak escarp
nah, won't happen
terse oar
I’m thinking a beta release at BlizzConline and then the full release at actual Blizzcon
spice crest
I agree with Doctor - I think no new releases until the OW2 beta. Then I’m thinking we’ll get Sojurn and maybe the Junker Queen as new characters in OW2
limpid agate
Junkerqueen isn't important enough to be a launch character
peak escarp
I'm still not sure she'll be a playable hero
iron plume
I don't really see the link between importance and being a launch hero
aside from Sojourn they may well be just "whatever heroes they had in the pipeline"
limpid agate
Let me rephrase that
I think Junkerqueen is important enough to head her own DLC, but not important enough to the plot of OW2 to release her at launch
tired prairie
soldier 76 is gay
peak escarp
and?
finite urchin
Gay = great
But anyway
Didnt they show the outlines of four heroes they’ll add?
Now that we’re talking about overwatch 2
And i saw someone post a picture of project titan heroes, saying they might use those heroes
Oh yeah @arctic loom
Now, overwatch lacks a boomerang weapon
peak escarp
that image was a fake made by the community
finite urchin
Oh
peak escarp
but there were some silhouettes shown to a reporter
which is what that image was based off of
peak escarp
they tried having Reinhardt throw his hammer as a ranged attack in early development, but that left the player with no weapon, waiting for it to come back
so I don't think they'll add a boomerang weapon
finite urchin
So, ur saying that they were basically made from a description given by a reporter
Ok
Maybe a boomerang styled ability
Not the primary weapon
Like roadhog hook
But i guess roadhog’s hook fills that niche then
limpid agate
Roadhog hook is not a boomerang function
They can make a boomerang function as an ability, or as a weapon that fires multiple.
There are a lot of example of that kind of weapon working well in Megaman 8-Bit Deathmatch
But there aren't any characters who it really applies to as far as we know.
So they can give it to anyone other than Mauga, if they do make it.
peak escarp
it seems like they want to make sure every hero has at least mid-ranged attacks, even if their primary is close-range or melee
green shore
@peak escarp what does reaper have?
cerulean ice
have what
terse oar
I think they mean what mid/longe range ability
peak escarp
oh
idk, I guess he's close range but his teleport gives him mobility, which is a form of range
but that's off topic
limpid agate
He has a longer range than you think.
The only hero without a ranged option is Winston.
But excluding abilities, Reinhardt, Brigitte, and Winston are the three melee heroes
I would rather not get more. Especially not literally, like Rein and Brig
tawny crypt
Dude imagine a dog themed hero, or any animal
peak escarp
we have two animals already
tranquil sun
not enough
peak escarp
Winston, Hammond
errant vigil
worn knoll
I like how the only two animals in the game came from the fucking moon
last inlet
I mean, that's where the genetic experiments happened. Makes sense to give their hyper-intelligent animals the same origin.
Why they had to do it on the moon, well, yeah.
proud pike
I like how the only two animals in the game came from the fucking moon
Ganymede is from Earth
worn knoll
who?
proud pike
Bastion bird
Technically he is in game. And he is an animal, so... not only two animals
worn knoll
Damn it
well space animals that have the ability to understand humans
I wanted to say animals that have the ability to speak but Hammond uses his robot to speak
cosmic crest
I think 2 is more than enough.
cerulean ice
if there were any more then it would probably just come from hlc or a failed/success experiment trope
proud pike
This is probably a dumb question, but LC4 when?
proud pike
London Calling
proud pike
also i hate your profile picture
why?
cerulean ice
London Calling
oh yh i forgot about that 
proud pike
@cerulean ice psst
proud pike
also i hate your profile picture
why? x2
proud pike
worthy rose
Your pfp is pretty odd ngl
finite urchin
Now i would minimod and say this is a lore discussion
But idrc
About thar rule anyway
limpid agate
!!shitposting @fluid spade
twilit nacelleBOT
@fluid spade Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
fluid spade
oh is there a channel for that or something?
limpid agate
You can post shitposts in #general-discussion in moderation.
Why would you think its acceptable to make one here?
Read the #rules and #647027996070379520
limpid agate
This channel is for lore discussion only.
silver oriole
Lore question.
The Hero Gallery has a skin for Moira, and it's description reads her as being part of some organisation called 'Oasis'. I can't find much on Oasis, so does anyone know what they do/did??
limpid agate
!!wiki Oasis
twilit nacelleBOT
For more information about the game, please refer to the wiki: https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Oasis
limpid agate
Oasis is a city that wants to push science without restriction. Moira has the same philosophy.
So Moira is the minister of Genetics there.
Its a city in Iraq. Its also a KotH map
silver oriole
I know it's a map, but thanks for the answer
finite urchin
Moira gets away with so much it’s not even funny
peak escarp
she didn't really get away with it
her lack of ethics got her kicked out the scientific community and made Overwatch shut down her research
she only "gets away with it" now because she found people who don't care about ethics
finite urchin
She gets away with being in blackwatch, talon, corrupting reyes, and even though you say she didnt get away with disregarding ethics, it’s regardless, getting away with it, because she was still allowed to research with impunity and without hindering progress
limpid agate
That's like saying Widowmaker gets away with murder
finite urchin
Ok then, minus the last point
limpid agate
Again
Saying Moira "got away" with all that is like saying Widowmaker gets away with killing Gerard/Ana/Mondatta/other VIPs
finite urchin
Widowmaker doesnt “get away” because she is solidly affiliated with the bad guys
limpid agate
Glad you understand
finite urchin
No :p i still have a bit more to say
Moira is the ministry of oasis
Oasis is a reputable place?
limpid agate
No.
finite urchin
Oasis is not a reputable place?
peak escarp
it's a place that wants to advance science, at any cost
limpid agate
Moira: I know we have our differences, but your brilliant mind would be welcome amongst my colleagues in Oasis.
Mercy: No thank you. You and your colleagues discredit the field of science. I want nothing to do with it.
some people see that as reckless/dangerous
limpid agate
Moira's own lines on Oasis suggest that the world doesn't approve or care for it either.
If only the world could see the wonders that science has built.
finite urchin
Well it’s still very well known, one of the most advanced cities
And
Nvm, since i havent gotten my facts right about oasis, i consider myself the loser of this argument
dire zodiac
doesn't symmetra have an oasis skin as well?
iron plume
it is in the Oasis aesthetic
but it's not canon
cosmic crest
Maybe Sym has been to Oasis on a business trip?
cerulean ice
it looks exaggerated for it to be a canon skin
iron plume
have you seen moira's minister?
Symm has a voiceline about Vishkar wanting to get in on Oasis
but I doubt it's mutual
cerulean ice
comparatively to symmetra's oasis? hmm...
dire zodiac
but I doubt it's mutual
yeah i don't think oasis would be too happy with vishkars orderliness and everything interfering
fluid spade
remember when echo rextuyciuionip
iron plume
...no
finite urchin
is there any insight as to what the cube from train hopper is?
finite urchin
i think there's a high possibility that we'll hear a lot about it
but that's obvious
cosmic crest
Not really.
finite urchin
why?
cosmic crest
It's a random mcguffin from 5 years ago that hasn't been mentioned since and was introduced when they were still figuring out the lore. I highly doubt we will see it again.
finite urchin
blizzard is super careful about what they release to the public, though
i doubt they'd just leave such a huge plothole
especially considering how much they hyped it up
and it's special appearance
and sudden intro
peak escarp
yeah
it was from before they changed their direction for the lore
it wasn't hyped up that much
they barely even showed it
cosmic crest
I'm conflicted. I kind of want them to reintroduce it so bringing attention to it wasn't pointless, but on the other hand ignoring a mcguffin for 5 years only to suddenly bring it back doesn't sound like particularly good writing.
peak escarp
i doubt they'd just leave such a huge plothole
that's not what a plothole is
finite urchin
I'm conflicted. I kind of want them to reintroduce it so bringing attention to i...
i think it was just bad writing anyway to introduce something like that without context and forget about it
cosmic crest
It does break the rule of Chekhov's gun.
finite urchin
never heard of that before
but thank you so much
i knew there was a phrase for it
but not exactly what it was
cosmic crest
It's the principle that every element introduced into a story needs to be relevant at some point otherwise it should be removed.
muted gulch
how much of genjis body is cybernetic?
silver oriole
how much of genjis body is cybernetic?
You want a percentage?
Because what I do know is that head,torso, left arm, and both legs above the knees are intact.
cerulean ice
genitals is still intact