lore-discussion

[past copper]

He's never killed a human before. And having lived with Torbjörn, no doubt was taught to never harm humans

[shrewd pivot]

💔 💔 💔 💔 ok that's rough actually. Bastion has attacked warbot nulltroopers, but never sapient beings like humans against Talon... oof.

[past copper]

Oh man. If Bastion was traumatized before from PTSD... oh God. Someone give the gentle robot a hug

[shrewd pivot]

Bastion needs a green room ASAP 🥀

Actually I wonder if Ganymede will show up in the comic...

[past copper]

Bastion gonna have to choose between protecting his friends... his new family by going against everything Torbjörn taught him or risk losing them because of his own fear

[shrewd pivot]

I don't know about that, but Bastion probably will hesitate maybe... that alone could get him damaged

[past copper]

That's certainly not fair. But war never is

[peak escarp]

speaking of Ganymede, he gets a dev doodle spray

[crisp canyon]

In personal opinion I act really like the idea of her being South African, pink is apparently political color in the Philippines I’m not sure Overwatch would touch on but I’d love to be surprised

[peak escarp]

which is a reference to Canuck the Crow (rip)

[shrewd pivot]

Also if Juno can be knocked out while in her Suit, it explains her line with Mercy 😭 she might blow up....

[past copper]

We will see in the next comic. I wonder who Bastion is fighting alongside in a sector of the base

[peak escarp]

also, I appreciate that the comic maintains the canon that Lucio has no healing

[shrewd pivot]

They call him a "sonic healer", whatever that means

[past copper]

Doesn't seem Juno has any either

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Juno's torpedoes are used to clear debris

And Juno was going to use her gun to damage enemies

[past copper]

Also, anyone else get the easter egg Cole dropped in the second comic?

[shrewd pivot]

"Don't sass me" line?

[past copper]

Nope. He said Talon doesn't move like this unless they kick the hornets nest

He was talking about the Venice Incident

[shrewd pivot]

Ah

[peak escarp]

McCree: You just had to kick the hornet's nest!```

[past copper]

Blizzard remembers

[peak escarp]

god I miss that mission

please Blizz, I will pay any money, just make Retribution playable again

[shrewd pivot]

That's fun they used the exact wording as a call back

Also the knowing looks about Talon between Baptiste and Cassidy was cool

[past copper]

Well, based off what TOP said from one of his interviews with someone on the Overwatcg team... they said they're talking about bringing back Archives

[peak escarp]

🤞

[shrewd pivot]

A new archives mission once a year while they are at it plz 🙏

[crisp canyon]

It may also be a stretch but South African military adorns Red Berets as well

[shrewd pivot]

South Africa was mentioned in lore before iirc?

[peak escarp]

I don't remember

[shrewd pivot]

I saw some rumors about hero 51 but no sources, apparently her call sign was leaked?

I doubt it tho

[crisp canyon]

Omg and she’s wearing dog tags so she has military background

[shrewd pivot]

I think Cape Town was mentioned in lore in overwatch 🤔

I think it was from a story with Efi and Orisa? Seeing the destruction around the globe on TV from nullsector?

[past copper]

Makes sense for her to be Helix, given where Talon is planning to infiltrate

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, plus the powder keg map lore

[past copper]

Finally, Pharah will have a friend from her organization

[wind wind]

unless they hate eachother

^^

[past copper]

Seriously, who else thought Helix wouldn't have any push to the lore?

[wind wind]

I didnt no

[crisp canyon]

Ive sold myself on her being South African now

[wind wind]

honestly forgot about them

can't wait to hear what her voice sounds like thoo

[shrewd pivot]

I expected helix to come back somehow bc of the Phreaks being against them and Oasis hiring Helix

But via this route, is a fun suprise

[past copper]

I mean really. Helix suck all together. They couldn't stop Soldier: 76 from stealing weapons. They struggled against Talon. And a group of nobody's stole that stuff from a lab

Remind. What were Helix good at again?

[shrewd pivot]

I hope the serum heist Talon pulls is a fun tense scene

[crisp canyon]

There’s a mention in the archive events reaper and Gerard were sent on a top secret blackwatch mission to Cape Town

[shrewd pivot]

Well, Anubis ai hasn't fully escaped yet.

[wind wind]

ig it might be like talon where theres a bunch of grunts + some cool characters

[past copper]

Oh. And failed to keep Akande locked up

[wind wind]

I meannnn it is Akande

mans needed a better cell tho

[past copper]

They should have taken his cybernetic arm completely

[crisp canyon]

I can’t find much else ab South Africa in ow lore, other than boomslang from the phreaks is likely South African and took her name from the snake there

[shrewd pivot]

If there's another escaped prisoner with the new Iceland map (that's the prison iirc), it would be a funny reoccurring issue

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's mentioned in lore but not anything deep dive iirc. Pardon!

[crisp canyon]

But I’m still a believer

[shrewd pivot]

I like your ideas, I think it would be cool if the pink has some kind of cultural meaning or design meaning beyond "cool hair dye"

[past copper]

Either way, Helix is a failed security group. And the Deadlock Rebels are about to humiliate them again

[crisp canyon]

I’ll go down with this ship like the Frankie one

[crisp canyon]

It would if she was from Barbados

I put it up above but Barbados National flower is hot pink with orange accent and is called the pink pride of Barbados

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah! :>

[crisp canyon]

As it looks to me rn I would welcome both either the second Caribbean hero or the first African woman hero

[shrewd pivot]

Technically Amari are African women on the roster, but I get ya, yeye! Hypeee

[crisp canyon]

Do also have to keep myself grounded and remember Kiriko has green hair for no reason

[shrewd pivot]

Hazard has national flower motif arguably (thistle) so it's not completely out of the question imo :)

[crisp canyon]

I didn’t even know that

[shrewd pivot]

It's not confirmed ofc, but I personally read some thistle inspo in Hazard's design bc of the shapes and colors

[past copper]

Orisa was born in Numbani. She's African is she not?

[crisp canyon]

She’s a robot and wasn’t born

[past copper]

Gasp? That's so ignorant

[crisp canyon]

I would’ve taken the shot if widow didn’t

[shrewd pivot]

Well, Orisa is a robot. Yeye.

Orisa and Efi are Yoruba in Nigeria, Efi isn't on the roster, so I meant Ana and Pharah

[past copper]

Orisa has a heart. Efi created her. She was created in Africa and just as much a person as you or me. So Orisa is African. Case closed

[crisp canyon]

An African robot yes not a black woman

[past copper]

Ah ah. A black girl created her to be who she is. One doesn't make something without taking a little inspiration from themselves

So one could argue Orisa is black

[wise badge]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-bird-dance-gif-15953047442713792845

[shrewd pivot]

Orisa might not be sapient 😅 she's a robot.

But as far as effeminate African culture rep, ye

Efi is rep, The founder of Overwatch Adawe is rep, Ana and Pharah, are rep of African girls and women

[crisp canyon]

What r u doing here? Ur supposed to be in serious

[wise badge]

I think orisa is black at least in my heart

[wise badge]

oh sorry i will go back now

https://tenor.com/view/anime-darling-in-the-franxx-hair-flip-long-hair-gif-13451624

[past copper]

She is. She's basically what Efi dreamed of becoming as a hero for her city

[crisp canyon]

Isn’t it like 4am where u r? 😭

[shrewd pivot]

I think it's fair to say there is a difference between a baymax robot and a human tho haha

Either way, I hope hero 51 has a nice VA! VAs can really carry a hero imo

[past copper]

I wouldn't try to debate this. If a sentient robot can win citizenship from supreme court case, you know a case on Orisa is going to the robot's favor

[shrewd pivot]

Orisa is not an awakened robot tho, she might just be ai

There's a difference between something like Zenyatta (sapient) and something like Anubis ai(not sapient)

Orisa def represents Efi's dreams and hopes tho! And has cultural and language rep.

[south torrent]

Agreed the va cast for overwatch is incredible

[wise badge]

sigma

[shrewd pivot]

Fr the VA delivery is peak

Ramattra too

[south torrent]

Oh definitely sig is carried by his va

[shrewd pivot]

Obligatory mention that Sigma origin short is my fav origin short

[crisp canyon]

Sombra va Carries the Overwatch community tho

[south torrent]

Her videos with the other va

So good

[shrewd pivot]

that's super fun :>

[brittle sky]

Sigma va ain't even a va. They just like... Got a dev who happened to be Dutch to go ham

[south torrent]

Which makes it even better

[brittle sky]

And he's easily top five, maybe even top three on line delivery in a pretty strong cast.

[crisp canyon]

RELEASE ME!!!

[shrewd pivot]

The voice work is still great, there's a lot of nice voice work on the game, Mei for example is great imo bc she sounds "real" rather than scripted delivery, fits the character well

[south torrent]

If you hear her talk she literally just sounds like Mei

[shrewd pivot]

Meanwhile you have hammy voice work like Lúcio, and while I wish the VA spoke Portuguese, the "boyband... you gotta believe!" cute humor is really fun

They tend to pick VAs pretty well for sound imo, so im looking forward to hero 51

[peak escarp]

fun fact: Boris Hiestand is an animator who did work on the Guardians of the Galaxy movies

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, compare it to... idk Wuyang? Wuyang reads his lines like he is in a dubbed animation, but Anran reads her lines less "scripted" sounding

I think Wuyang is really the only voice direction (very scripted sounding) that I can't quite get into but it's gotten better, like the Wuyang line with Freja reads super natural and is quite funny

I think that's a strength of overwatch, that characters feel "natural" or a fun gimmick, and not "scripted" like many hero games have

[south torrent]

I like it, it fits his almost awkward personality type

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah my guess is that the VA was getting used to the role, and while it would have been interesting to pull a Wuxia dub gimmick (Doomfist has fighting game style call outs for example) but Anran doesn't do it at all and new lines with Wuyang sound more natural so yeye

They have changed voice direction seemingly, like Kiriko for example, and VAs have grown into roles, like Lifeweaver (VA has been rocking it lately!), so it will be interesting to see more of Wuyang interactions imo :)

[south torrent]

I agree especially with Kiri, Mizu definitely helped with her a lot

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I think it's bc that "delinquent" archetype isn't very clear, initial Kiriko and current Mizuki maybe didn't come across as intended to audiences not familiar with that goading style smack talk "delinquent" trope (it's all a farce! It's dramatic on purpose!)

I do find it really fun tho, and I think Mizuki with Kiriko helped show more of both characters well :)

I rather enjoy Mizuki lore

[south torrent]

Me too he’s my favorite out of the 5

[past copper]

Definitely rapid fire, but makes me wonder if it's possibly an improved version of Sojourn's railgun

Nobody but her could handle the weapon because of her cybernetics

But a lot of time has passed. No way people would just sit on their asses and not to try to construct an improved version that anyone could use

[brittle sky]

Some leaks claim to know her kit and they're not too hard to believe, for those that want to compare those to their predictions.

[shrewd pivot]

Idk if its a railgun exactly, it seems long distance snipery compared to sojo rail gun

Ooooo

[shrewd pivot]

Dm me the rumor? :o

[past copper]

She could be like Marquis from Battleborn. A sniper with a drone to give him an eye in the sky to locate targets

Might be what we're seeing with her

Looking closer, the similarities are uncanny. Gotta be a coincidence

[brittle sky]

Of course. They're both robot butlers with cane snipers

[crisp canyon]

Ow pulling concepts from battleborne would be crazy

They’re grave robbing their own cemetery

[edgy meadow]

i mean if theyre no way to play these games anymore then really theyre just doing the players a favor and nodding respect

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smiling-cat-cute-cat-cat-meme-smiling-gif-10086598795453609558

[crisp canyon]

I would like to see be a beam gun rather than just another soj gun, but marquis did have a passive thing I think where on every third shot it did 50 bonus damage on consecutive hit I wonder if that’s the skill shot they were talking ab

[crisp canyon]

I honestly hoped domina was gonna be like orendi when i heard ab the multiple arms

[edgy meadow]

people always talk about x game taking concepts and designs from y game as if its a bad when

when i think that liek more often than not its a good thing

obviously if its just a copy paste with 0 thought behind it then its boring but they dont do that shit

and i especially think its a good thing if the ideas that are being taken are from games that are dead or literally unavailable to play

[crisp canyon]

I think omnic coming towards end of the year might be ow version of cypher from Val

Also would like 51 to have an ult like killjoy from Val where she can shut down a bunch of area which would fit into her security role

[shrewd pivot]

I agree cringycoot, i think games making fun iterations off of archetypes is a healthy thing for the genre.

If the leaks are true for hero 51, the only thing im interested in seeing from her kit is how the drone is used. 🤔

Regardless im sure her lore will be fun

[crisp canyon]

I wonder if she’ll have a code name or have an actual name

I didn’t realize quite a few ppl act believe Alejandra is hero 51

[peak escarp]

she's like 14

[crisp canyon]

I’ve seen them use the reasoning there’s no official date on the cinematic so you could push it back like 6 years from current ow

[peak escarp]

it's set around the same time as Recall

[crisp canyon]

They say it like it’s a fact 2

[peak escarp]

there's my source - it's from the GDC 2017 talk Chu gave about building the world of Overwatch

[spare fox]

Bruhhh how do they think she's Alejandra what

At least Frankie had a little precedence

[peak escarp]

people also thought Sombra was Alejandra

[spare fox]

See that I can sorta see

[peak escarp]

because apparently there can only be one girl/woman with brown hair and medium skin

also, 51 can't be Alejandra because we see her still 14 in the comic Searching, which takes place after Orisa is built (which happens after Recall)

so there

[spare fox]

Idk, I'm not opposed to the idea of previously-mentioned characters becoming heroes but like... just because a non-hero character exists doesn't mean they should be a hero imo

[crisp canyon]

There’s a redit post with like 1k upvotes ab it I think maybe it’s not that high but it’s got decent traction for some reason

[peak escarp]

they can join all the people who are certain it's Frankie

[spare fox]

Searching was wild because like
You have the Infiltration cinematic that ends with Katya asking Zarya if she knows why she is here and Zarya going "I believe I do"
And then Searching picks up right there with Zarya going "Wait I don't understand"

[peak escarp]

and enjoy being wrong together

yeah Searching was a mess

depending on the timeline it took Zarya months to track down Sombra, travelling all over the world and requiring an expert hacker's help... to find a hispanic woman who spoke Mexican Spanish

Mexico should have been the first place she looked, not the last

either Zarya is as dumb as a brick, or Volskaya sent her on a wild goose chase on purpose

[edgy meadow]

for anyone curious the first 3 webtoon chapters already dropped
im planning to start reading tonight

[peak escarp]

I've already read all of them

including the premium ones

[edgy meadow]

howd you get the premium ones?

[peak escarp]

pay

[edgy meadow]

i imagined as much i just mean where

[peak escarp]

you have to buy coins in the app, it's 7 coins per issue

[spare fox]

Webtoons also has "missions" too where you can earn them, but the coins aren't all that expensive either

[peak escarp]

there was a promo for I think 37 coins for like $2... it's not a lot

if you don't want to pay you'll just have to wait, new pages come out on wednesdays I think

[muted barn]

Did anyone buy them and then upload it to twitter yet

[vocal stag]

guys i got a question

how am i meant to get out of a certain rank

i can hit my shots

but my other dps cant

whats the trick to winning games😛

[grand wedge]

Wrong chat, here is to talk about the Overwatch story and lore!

[vocal stag]

oh

wait

im so silly,

super sorry 😭

[grand wedge]

Ahah it’s okay dw

GL!

[bleak stratus]

Birdwatch*

[past copper]

Shoulda called it Wolfwatch since Vendetta is running the show

[brittle sky]

she can't even kill college students with a private army

[mighty jetty]

Plot kinda ass rn

[past copper]

Only someone with 0 experience in writing would say that

[south torrent]

I disagree but why do you think so?

[past copper]

Simple answers. It's either not going the way THEY want it to or they're not following the entire plot

Those are the usual reasons people say such things about the plot

[drowsy locust]

cant believe Hammond can lay eggs in birdwatch

[shy dagger]

https://x.com/jesssdotmp4/status/2039119824815595646?s=46

jess (mauga brainrot🏝️) (@jesssdotmp4)

i kinda understand why mauga is so carefree because he really could just fall over and die at any moment

two hearts means double the risk for heart issues as well as having heartbeat synchronization issues. if they are out of sync even slightly, it could kill you

X · Mar 31, 2026, 11:17 PM

[drowsy locust]

just live life to the fullest 🙏

[south torrent]

Sounds about right 😭

[vernal wagon]

Bruh this webtoon plot armor is insane bruh

You got insane numbers of talon agent shooting at likr 8 people or whatever and nobody is injured at all bruh

Brothers talkin about vendettas plot armor

[keen summit]

Sad that we havent yet seen orisa in the webtoon

[keen summit]

Tnf these 8 people are literally the best of the best and have fought such amounts of enemies relatively unscarred before

Just look at retribution

[vernal wagon]

Yeah but like if an army is shooting at 8 people Atleast like 1 stray bullet has to hit

Not saying they should die but like

[keen summit]

Well a few hit rein, on his armor

And him and genji were infront

[shy dagger]

Kinda makes me feel bad for him :(

[vernal wagon]

It’s just crazy plot armor how they just go out unharmed , they got back into Gibraltar like talon agent arent dumb as rocks

[keen summit]

That they cant shoot juno standing still in the open is the issue

Cuz like

Theres a point being made of her being inexperienced so her getting hit on thecshoulder or sum would work for the story

I get the idea of the experienced chars being able to handle it or even not get hit

[vast swift]

what i hate about the cinematic isnt how doomfist was defeated, but the lack character introduction we had with vendetta.
i looked into the cinematic deeper, and vendetta clearly just, gets better when she has her flashbacks, but none of that is explained and most people dont even realise, whereas doom was shown to be really strong no matter what. And we knew that. Thats why people got angry at the fight, and i think if they had of actually introduced vendetta in a better way, it would’ve had a much better reception. Also, doom barely fought to begin with which was another mistake of blizzard

.
i know i wrote a wall, but IT MAKES SENSE

[spare fox]

are we seriously having this argument again???

Doomfist losing isn't a mistake

[brittle sky]

Spooky, you realize people are different people right?

Like, it's not just one hive mind you're talking to.

[spare fox]

do you not understand figurative speech?

[brittle sky]

You can't expect someone to never talk about something because someone else talked about it before. People have different experiences and knowledge. Something that is old hat to you is a new topic to someone else. Basic theory of mind.

[vast swift]

no, its not. But the way vendetta won wasnt explained right. it wasnt clear enough that vendetta is stronger, she wasnt shown to be stronger. So for her to then just… win. it wasnt told in the right way. but doomfist being defeated wasnt a mistake, no

[vast swift]

real, like i wouldnt be like “why do i have to tell you ventures cooldown time again…” bc i know that they arent as familiar with venture as i am

[spare fox]

I don't think they (the writers) wanted to say that Vendetta was stronger than Doomfist... it's not a powerscaling thing. The point is that Doomfist wasn't prepared for someone like Vendetta. She doesn't fight like him, she didn't have the same experiences as him, he took for granted that he was strong and undefeatable - that's why he lost.
We didn't see Vendetta's training montage or her defeating everyone leading up to Doom on the powerscaling ladder, we didn't need to. Doomfist was dismissive of her, didn't think her a worthy opponent, not someone to worry about. THAT's why he lost. It was even foreshadowed that way- Ramattra's comic where she's shown and he said Talon is not ready, etc etc

[keen summit]

My afvice wait for the story to play out

[twilit patrol]

Just read the 3 episodes of Undivided

I actually love it

[vast swift]

but doom is smarter, as shown when he catches tracer mid-blink

[keen summit]

My theory is he lost on purpose

[wise grotto]

It wasn't for shadowed long enough or enough wasn't shown
If the writing team in charge of this wasn't essentially hired in December and given a super tight deadline to make this specific story best happen by force

[spare fox]

thing is, that's the difference between Vendetta and Tracer (even in game!)
Tracer's blinks are predictable
Vendetta's movements are not

[vast swift]

my theory: mercy actually is as bad as moira, which makes sombra blackmail her into reviving doom

[keen summit]

This i agree with, they shouldve shown more of vendettas actions way before her release

[wise grotto]

Like this doesn't have to be a complicated explanation
There's def mistakes the writing team quite literally had less time then vendetta being in game

[vast swift]

also venture joins sombra who both join phreaks

[wise grotto]

If they would have been able to def

[vast swift]

true

[vast swift]

yeah, so basically, good plot, badly executed

[wise grotto]

There's no way either of them join freaks
Ventures apart of a group who protect artifacts and architectural locations
And Sombra cares more about a lot of other things

[vast swift]

but tangle with talon - sombra talks to venture at the end

[wise grotto]

The bad things that existed apart of mercy in theory died when Moira came out she essentially became all the mad scientist stuff mercy used to be thought of as

[vast swift]

and venture doesnt get much lore, neither does haz

[wise grotto]

.mercy is by all means a Mary Sue in her reputation st least

[vast swift]

whos mary sue

[keen summit]

If ur gonna shitpost do it somewhere else

[wise grotto]

There's no way or good reason for them to join the phreaks
Venture knows about the conspiracy and that's a venture illari soldier Sombra story line (and now emre partially(

[keen summit]

Doom "letting vendetta win" actually has some arguments

[wise grotto]

It's. Figure of speech on someone who has little to no flaws for the sake of having a character who's not very flawed

[vast swift]

whats the conspiracy? the eye in emre?

[keen summit]

Yea

[wise grotto]

Kt makes the most sense if he wants the chaos and vend causes way more

[keen summit]

Yup + more but ill type ot out when i can

The bridge opened

[wise grotto]

Yes
Partially at least
It's existed in lore since I think ,2018 2017 this dude will explain more shortly

[vast swift]

i still think mercys getting blackmailed by sombra

also why was nobody talking about the map teaser in ventures trailer?

[wise grotto]

There is pretty much 0 reasons for that to be thought of
Especially cause none of those 3 are looking for doom

[wise grotto]

That's a death map that already exists

[vast swift]

“whatever talons looking for, i WONT let it get into their hands

[keen summit]

We also know chernobog is connected in a way to conspiracy maybe it even id it completely

[vast swift]

rlly? temple of anubis?

[keen summit]

Cuz venture knowing bout it makescsense in that way

[wise grotto]

Talons currently breaking into multiple locations world wide to get strong tech and gear

And has been even before vendetta

[vast swift]

so venture would want to join the wayfinders to another anti-talon faction (phreaks) to stop them

[wise grotto]

With the power source of one of ramms ships and mauga trying to steal stuff

[keen summit]

Nightsy maybe before getting mad bout the lore or story learn a bit of the lore

[wise grotto]

Phreaks are anti ow and anti talon
Phreaks are atm anti a lot of tbings

[keen summit]

Phreaks ain't exactly anti talon

[civic lynx]

It’s just the throne of Anubis map that’s now stuck in arcade

[vast swift]

im not mad about the lore, im mad about the fact that vendetta wasnt shown in the right way

[keen summit]

Theyre punk

[wise grotto]

The way finders would go to ow LONG before that

[keen summit]

Which doom likely did on purpose

[vast swift]

released in s12, venture released in s10

[keen summit]

Nono

[vast swift]

i guess, but sombra mightve stopped them from doing so

[wise grotto]

Which again the writing team had like maybe at the most less then 2 months to setup this fight

[keen summit]

We are talking bout different one

[vast swift]

exactly. should’ve pushed spotlight back to today imo

[wise grotto]

Sombra really has no way to stop them from doing that at all

[vast swift]

or

idk

[vast swift]

information

[wise grotto]

Pushing the big event back when it had this much work put into it would have been detrimental
It was just shitty timing

[vast swift]

ig

but

idk

[wise grotto]

The way finders are just architects
They don't have any actual even slightly bad intentions in any way
They're arguably more good as a group then current overwatch is

[vast swift]

its just i dont think it was presented right

[keen summit]

Archeologist

Not architects

[wise grotto]

Sorry I spelt it horribly wrong and auto correct stole it

[vast swift]

but sombra might know more, giving venture enough information to want more, allowing sombra to control ventur

e

[keen summit]

Petra is the map they meant

[vast swift]

oh alr

[keen summit]

It already introduced the wayfindets

Almost none of the heroes in ow2 actually were teased

[vast swift]

true

except

[keen summit]

Vendetta was tho in the traditional way

[vast swift]

anran, emre, juno, hazard and soj

[keen summit]

Haz???

[vast swift]

“ATS LUKIN LIKE A REVOLUSHUN”

with the oasis map

[keen summit]

Yeah i meant before close to trial

Like actual months before

[vast swift]

ohhh ok

[wise grotto]

Juno and vend where the only objectively teased ones

[keen summit]

Juno was revealed already

[vast swift]

and emre no?

[keen summit]

Id argue all but cat for this season too

[vast swift]

nah

[keen summit]

Cuz they all were teased

[vast swift]

cat was teased

it was a cat

so

it automatically got teased

[keen summit]

?

[vast swift]

It was a cat. It was teased. You may not object this fact.

[keen summit]

Haz does count

[vast swift]

yippe :D

[keen summit]

Doom likely lost on purpose tho

[nocturne flint]

i am genuienly Curious about İllari and i think she dosent get talked a lot since her lackluster apperance in both game and lore involvment

is she a genetically enhanced human that can absorb solo energy?

solar*

[spare fox]

she's solar threaded and trained to use the power of the sun

[nocturne flint]

but what is the process

shes someting called an İni warrior

how does ini warriors use the sun

[keen summit]

Little aside tho, vend is on dooms level, the wrong part is how they fought, the fight should bu All means be whoever gets the first hit

[spare fox]

I'm pretty sure Illari will come up eventually in regards to the Conspiracy. Not only was she involved with the Soldier story about the Conspiracy, but Emre's ult is basically the same as Illari's minus the sun-part

[keen summit]

Her bio

Its explained alpt there

[nocturne flint]

i read it

didnt understand

[keen summit]

The rest is a mystery

It stores energy

And she can release it

[spare fox]

whoever gets the first hit?

[keen summit]

Yup

Vendetta has enough offense to one sht doom

Other way around too

So it should be who hits first

But doom went with a knee

Doom has enough reason to fake losing, to get more chaos, to make vendettas ego burn brighter so she can try alot of stuff he wouldnt, work in the shadows

Why did he know she wouldnt just cut his head off?
Doom likely did research and learnt she wanted vialli dead, so her re enacting how doom killed vialli fits her

Cuz no battle mastermind like doom us would underestimate a practical lightsaber

[spare fox]

I don't necessarily think Doomfist faked losing to Vendetta

but I do think his "death" is a fakeout- like 100% he's coming back in the future

[twin rune]

lowk getting rid of doom would be so sad

[peak escarp]

throwing him out a window was re-enacting her father's death, not Vialli's

Vialli wasn't important

[spare fox]

and honestly I think the only real significance of the "fall to the death" - for human characters anyway - is to keep the rating T

they're not going to show anything more gruesome, especially not bloody, happening

even when Balderich died on screen, the "blood" was actually his suit leaking and it was just him sitting in the throne and his eye-lights going out

[fleet nimbus]

i think its just a lazy way for them to introduce a rework for him...

[spare fox]

so... writing and animating a whole ah cinematic is the lazy way? what's the non-lazy way?

but I do agree, when he does "return" in the lore, I think he's going to have a reworked kit

[jade spire]

Probably… I mean, he kind of lost his arm

We finally got more info on what was going on at Gibraltar while Brig was getting the new recruits

I’m so thrilled

[spare fox]

I LOVE seeing the slice-of-life stuff, and then the whole story of the attack from the Gibraltar agents' perspective

and I just love seeing them work together T_T

Zero Hour is always my fav cinematic

[jade spire]

Hav you seen the webcomic yet

There’s 3 episodes out on the POV of everyone who was AT GIBRALTAR before and during the attack

[spare fox]

yup that's what I'm talking about

I loved it and the art was so good too

like, perfect balance of dramatic with splashes of light comedic drops here and there

[jade spire]

Supposedly there’s gonna be 40???

[spare fox]

yes! and hopefully even more after that eeeeeee

[thorn moss]

We here at the development have decided to lean more into Dva’s play style outside of the mech and have made some changes. Now when Dva uses her ultimate or the mech is destroyed she stays that way for the remainder of the match.

Light gun: damage increased by 100%, rate of fire up by 100% and clip size increased by 20.

Mech: once destroyed by ultimate or enemies Dva cannot call the mech back.

Ability one: once outside the mech Dva gains the ability to overload her mini gun sending a projectile that dos 250 damage on direct impact and 50 splash damage to enemies within a 5 meter radius. Cooldown of 8 seconds

[robust owl]

The lore tab for him on the official website says that his fate is unknown so there’s no way they tease that and then reveal he’s dead

[twin rune]

hey what if doom comes back but hes like half cyborg

[robust owl]

Lowk was already

[twin rune]

nah his arm was

[robust owl]

And his other arm too

[twin rune]

it was?

[robust owl]

Handcannons

[thorn moss]

I think that’s more augmentations

[twin rune]

yeah

[twin rune]

but lowkey, his arm does extend to his shoulder blades

so yeah he would be already half

also both of his legs are already robotic

doomfist falls in hole. sells soul to devil, gets brand new body!

crazy plot twist

[thorn moss]

I don’t even think he fell cause you don’t see the body fall

[peak escarp]

his legs aren't robotic

he's just wearing shin guards

[potent bone]

birds

[wooden drift]

Who the hell is lyre and why are we discussing him

[thorn moss]

Anyone else think Juno could not stay on Earrh long term due to the fact her body is not built to handle earth’s gravity?

She shakes in her idle animation which would be from her body struggling to hold up in gravity much stronger than what she grew up in and the fact she wears a spacesuit permanently could be from the fact she likely has zero immunity to the various bacteria and viruses on the planet

[crisp canyon]

It’s fiction

The monkey was also on the moon and he’s fine

[thorn moss]

Realistically she could not

Winston either

[crisp canyon]

Realistically humans wouldn’t be on mars and Winston wouldn’t exist

[thorn moss]

Except the lunar base seems to have earth gravity compared to the moon seen on the map so perhaps he could

[merry mason]

If they had that tech they probably had it on the mars base too

[thorn moss]

Idk we don’t have a mars map to play on

[crisp canyon]

Mars colony will never have any relevance to the story they should’ve made up some story ab Juno being frozen in time or something in earths orbit

[shrewd pivot]

there is a character from Lucheng that became wheelchair bound from astronaut things, so it is canonically a thing that gravity differences negatively impacts humans, I think Juno's suit could in theory provide her body support. Also, Mars colony might have artificial gravity to be similar to earth gravity!

[shrewd pivot]

I could see it being an arc for one year tbh! I think Juno will eventually reunite with the mars colony crew. Mei and Juno are working together to handle Lucheng's issues, which would make the lunar colony issues come to light to the public

[spare fox]

Mercy mentioned to Winston in Storm Rising iirc that he's not doing the proper acclimation exercises, insisting that he should unless he wants to end up like Dr Chao. Though it's not mentioned directly, we can assume that Juno is/was doing those acclimation exercises seeing as how she's basically fine. It's not a big leap since she's there with Mercy who would insist on it

[drowsy locust]

Have you guys seen that Winston and Hammond are in war for eggs in Birdwatch

Rumored, eggs are expensive.

[tulip stone]

Since Widowmaker left talon and also went off on her own, which most likely meant she doesn't have the medication/drugs to keep the conditioning in control. Does this mean we could see Amélie Lacroix? Or just a emotional Widowmaker? Or both?

[spare fox]

idk but I'm like dying to find out what becomes of her

both in lore and if the discontinuing Moira's treatments will have any effect on her in-game as well - either way it'll be interesting to see!

[civic lynx]

I do wonder if the new lore drop which seemingly is moira focused will reveal/hint at what will happen to widow via moira herself mentioning what she knows will happen after a prolonged period without the treatments

[edgy meadow]

well we know the name of the lore drop is "progress" by translating the leaked images

so im unsure

[tulip stone]

Progress could mean anything, but if it was abt widow? Yeah no i would 100% explode and become purple

[civic lynx]

She could reference widow leaving if the “progress” is referring to a breakthrough with an experiment that is similar to what she did/had in mind for widow

[tulip stone]

Oooh

Either way, based on a widow or just seeing a bit of widow, even if it is a reference, i will be exploding

[civic lynx]

If she isn’t in the new one they’ll still have to address her as well as reaper eventually

Sombra already got hinted at in the website description as keeping an eye on talon and (guessing) creating a plan to get sigma out of there

widow and reaper have left but don’t have any clear sign of where they’ll go or what they’ll do next

[thorn moss]

They could be it considering the lunar colony seems to also have gravity like earth

[shrewd pivot]

it most likely will be about the serum Talon is stealing from the Helix Grand Mesa base, the serum is most likely super soldier serum that moira may be interested in, and may test it on the colosseo fighters

[edgy meadow]

that what i was gonna say

[crimson wren]

What's that supposed to mean? All I need where I can find most of the Overwatch lore.

[edgy meadow]

i think this lore drop will go into the reasons and outcome of the grand mesa invasion

since we stil ldont know why talon wanted to get in there

[crimson wren]

Do I need to look the Lore in chronological or release order?

[spare fox]

go with release order

[crimson wren]

Okay. Just watch the videos and play overwatch and look in archive gaming events right?

[spare fox]

Watch the videos on PlayOverwatch YT, and then on YT search for Archives mission playthroughs

[fathom flame]

Lf duo/frieds 18+

[crimson wren]

Okay, thanks. That's all I need.

[proud thistle]

puppy girl detected

but also bruh

[odd slate]

i need to check out a video on the conquest missions or something

i keep forgetting abt them

[spare fox]

Are there new voicelines with this patch? not talking about April Fools ones

Heard Kiriko during setup, "the energy on this team is... interesting." Or something similar, don't think I've heard it before but I could be wrong?

[south torrent]

Did she have the witch skin on? I’m pretty sure that’s a voice line that only triggers with that skin

[spare fox]

ah yes, pretty sure it was the witch or the fortuneteller

ty

[past copper]

So ya think every season from here on will be Overwatch/Talon themed?

[thorn moss]

If so they should do mirrorwatch again

[peak escarp]

for the year, yes

then this arc will end and they'll come up with a new conflict

[past copper]

I think maybe we could see other factions getting skins for each season

The Junkers, Deadlock Rebels, Vishkar, Hashimoto, and Helix

[crisp canyon]

Maybe the skins are deadlocke/helix then hashimoto/yokai then meka junker

[past copper]

I kinda doubt Yokai. They've got like multiple skins already yokai themed to begin with

Some from at least two separate seasonal themes

[thorn moss]

A gwishin Dva skin would go hard

[glass hill]

for any comic readers jn here apparently there was 3 new comics released yesterday

[steel veldt]

where do you view the comics at??

[tulip stone]

You can go to the webtoons app or site!

[steel veldt]

thank you!! :)

[tulip stone]

Np! Just look up Overwatch and it should pop up!

[jade tundra]

the new webtoon is canon right showing off a new perspective?

[keen summit]

Why wouldnt it be

[keen summit]

Its also on the ow site

[past copper]

Hmm. We may actually see a Yokai theme in one of this year's seasons. That would be cool

[civic lynx]

I have a feeling that will be for S3, I hope there’s a shop bundle with that theme as well and not only BP skins that won’t come back

[nocturne flint]

YOKAİ ECHO SAVE MR

SAVE ME YOKAİ ECHO

HEEEEELP

HEEEEELP

[thorn moss]

Likely considering that’s looking like the Japan focused season

[meager geyser]

Why does Kirkio have two skins 😭 ?

I know those are concept art, but still

[digital linden]

wonder when we’ll get the fan competition skins in game, i really want the moira one

considering the theme was if the crisis never happened i’m hoping they’ll add little lore descriptions with them too

[wise grotto]

They're all different sets of concept art

[odd slate]

the echo and d.va ones look gnarly

good godddd

i wonder how mizuki would look

[summer flare]

kinda looks like a recolour

[past copper]

Other skins you know will be on the way at some in the shop

Give me cardboard Junkrat, voidwalker Reaper, and voidwalker Ramattra

[civic lynx]

Ngl I think the skins from the second and 3rd pictures that weren’t part of the voidwalker bundle we got are scrapped 😭

[past copper]

Just because they only released 5 doesn't mean the other voidwalker skins are scrapped

A) because the amount of work in one skin alone is demanding

And B) because bundles only ever fit 5 at the most

[mild quartz]

ياعيال في عرب

[past copper]

Now you wanna see one that's gonna go stupid. I present to you, Dreamwatch

Welcome to Dreamwatch. Here, anything can happen. Like your favorite toys coming to life or something

Though, I can't lie. Winston and Hammond look like something out of the game It Takes Two if anyone has played that

[civic lynx]

I’m surprised that Winston one didn’t drop now for April fools

The ball one is nightmare fuel plz don’t release it

[past copper]

In his dreams, Hammond IS the ball

[peak escarp]

I love the Cardboard series

I want to see a cardboard skin for Cat

[edgy meadow]

i would cry if either the winston skin and the hammond skin were made real, and for the most extremely opposite reasons

[odd slate]

are the googly eyes only on pc or?

wait nvm

[past copper]

Also. We're bound to see more of these skins

[odd slate]

dragon...

[past copper]

Also. Just now noticing these go together for Dreamwatch

Which makes me wonder. We get Winston and Hammond as dream characters

But who would we get as nightmare characters?

Can't have good dreams without a few nightmares in the mix

Hmm. Imagine Boogeyman Reaper or Ramattra

[dry bolt]

i need a vendetta skin dude 😭

that dva one looking CUUUTE

[crisp canyon]

Is there any chance do you think 51 name or abilities have to do with fire for the emoji?

[shrewd pivot]

There's been a leak apparently, and from that I can say no. Or atleast, not directly.

[civic lynx]

Blizzard can we sort out our security for the love of god 😭

[shrewd pivot]

It's from playtesters friends leaking things lol

Hero 51 will release soon, so it's not as big of a deal tbf

[crisp canyon]

Where is it at

[civic lynx]

Deleted by now with any luck 😭

[shrewd pivot]

It's on reddit

Honestly with the hero revealing within the week it's not a big deal imo, it's not like it's a gatcha pull banner lol they don't lose money from a prior leak less than a few weeks before releasing. Overwatch announced April 8 will be the reveal anyhow for the new hero, and the following days will be gameplay and motion comic

This makes me think the "progress" comic will release on April 7th

[crisp canyon]

What was it

[shrewd pivot]

I can dm

I am interested in the drone use in hero 51s kit but the rest seems rather basic kit for DPS I won't lie. Maybe even obnoxious to fight against, depending how it's balanced.

I do hope her lore is fun tho

I am hype to hear the VA too

[nova cloak]

How much time has passed since Winston pushed the recall button to current cinematics we are getting?

Is there an official timeline website i can look at that is updated

[spare fox]

2 years ish. There is a timeline pinned on this channel's pins but I think it's missing the newest lore

[atomic crest]

why is there ANOTHER update

[past copper]

Because S1 has experienced mass issues since launch

Hell. First week or two, straight latency every time I got on

Sad to say. People will see a similar issue come S2

[edgy meadow]

id be interested

[ocean pilot]

Im so hyped for Frankie

I wanna know who shes filiated with

[peak escarp]

the next hero isn't Frankie

[past copper]

Hoping to see these skins one day. So many possibilities with a number of heroes

[peak escarp]

that Hazard skin is fire

[wise grotto]

DAMN these are early in concept art skins compared to normal

These are almost like just the step after being sketched up

[past copper]

Junker Queen needs a pirate skin. Pirate Queen

And you know Mauga, Lucio, and Cole would rock a pirate fit

They are likely to come sooner than we might think. Summer season just around the corner

Would make great shop skins. Like One Eyed Wilhelm

The best navigator on the seven seas

[crisp canyon]

I kinda hate that rein skin

I don’t like any of pirate skins

[crisp canyon]

I feel like exo skin like could be better if they used the animals the hero’s alr have associated with them like kiri

[fathom grove]

and the crazy thing is they still look pretty good

[violet bolt]

67

[wise grotto]

The exo skins would have been better if they had a coherent and consistent vibe and design style to go gor

Every one of them looks like it's going for like 5 different vibes at the same time and only leaning into 1 but never leaning into the same one and never committing enough to any one except for ashe and vend (but they also leaned into two different vibes keeping the consistency a issue)

[thorn moss]

One-eyed Wilhelm of the Baltic Sea Yar

[brittle sky]

Por que?

[past copper]

I still think we could see the next 5 seasons themes be faction based

Given Vendetta has pretty much connected a majority of criminal factions under Talon, the potential is there

Vishkar, Deadlock Rebels, Helix Security, Junkers, Hashimoto, and Yokai. There. Blizzard has their factions to use for the year

And some of these already aren't far off from being the case. Between the Mirrorwatch skins and the weapon skins, these kinda hint at this being the game plan

[brittle sky]

I mean. Helix is pretty specifically not working with talon

[glad zenith]

I hope hero 51 is moroccan

[crisp canyon]

They all feel very bland and the same

[thorn moss]

Do we think the new hero is associated with helix?

[peak escarp]

she has the Helix logo on her shirt

[thorn moss]

Cool

[young dragon]

It’s interesting.

[covert hemlock]

https://youtu.be/227pdE57lao?si=xTi-Y8AdWRXUjwqH I did a video on Anran’s lore! It’s a near 30 minute deep dive on the character 🙂

[thorn moss]

Imagine wuyang got into fire college and became a jerk

In mirrorwatch who would be the one to overthrow mercy?

[potent briar]

Jetpack Cat

ok lemme think of an actual answer hol on

Sojourn?

[thorn moss]

Possibly

Overthrows mercy to be the head of talon

With agents Wilhelm, Song, Tracer and the assistance of Lucio at vishkar and King Jamison of junkertown in her corner

Then she recruits Kiriko with the Hashimoto to secure Tokyo wnd Cassidy with the deadlock gang to raid grand mesa

[wise grotto]

I think hanzo woukd be one of the heads of the hashimotos

[thorn moss]

Kiriko could take mizuki’s place as the double agent

[sick forge]

i think spiderman should be the head of hashimoto

[edgy tree]

Reapers kid

Reaper gets murked early on instead of Vendettas dad

and his kid goes on the whole revenge ark

[grand herald]

So like, is anyone else worried about sigma

When he talks about his “condition’s worsening” after sombra left, it really makes me wonder how much they’ll get away with now that sombra isn’t there to protect him

[swift trout]

Exceptionally worried

From what I've heard Vendetta plans to make full use of him as a living weapon and nothing else, and has him under lock and key

[civic lynx]

I think we’re all meant to be worried especially considering his reign of talon website description just says vendetta has thrown him into containment and sees him as nothing more than a powerful weapon that must be kept until she has a use for it

[grand herald]

Poor sigma :((

[civic lynx]

It does seem Sombra has/is creating a plan to take sigma out once an opening presents itself (maybe next season?)

[swift trout]

Season 2’s plot will be the great grandpa heist of 207x

[civic lynx]

😭

If the grand mesa mission is shown in hero 51’s comic on April 13th I’d be interested to see what the main plot of S2 will be

[thorn moss]

I thought reaper would take the place of jack and be the dorado vigilante

[thorn moss]

I’m hoping for an arc where sigma cracks and goes on a rampage with sombra returning to calm him down

Pharah could be a good replacement considering her father is dead in this timeline

[edgy tree]

Heroes in Mirrorwatch directly swapped alliances not just who they were (besides Genji which.... for some reason is a Junker)

[past copper]

Gabriel would have swapped with Jack for sure

Vigilante Reaper seeking justice for what his best friend Jack did to Overwatch

Also. Didn't seem to make much sense. Besides Genji being a Junker. Why was Zarya with Talon?

And I think D.Va? I can't remember if she was with Talon too

I guess they were showing an alternative universe where Overwatch wasn't shut down and Talon was still growing? IDK

Makes me wonder what other Mirrorwatch heroes would be. Vishkar Junkrat and Roadhog? Overwatch Mauga and Vendetta? Talon Pharah, Lucio, and Orisa?

[heady sand]

so question, what’s blackwatch?

[ocean pilot]

A secret task force inside Overwatch that did shady work that Overwatch didnt want to be associated with, if I remember correctly

[broken eagle]

Yeah And they were discovered by public after incident in venice where Reyes killed Vendeta's father

[brittle sky]

(because Vendetta's father was like, an arms smuggler who bombed an ow headquarters and then bragged about his government connections guarenteeing his release when blackwatch went to arrest him)

[civic lynx]

Lucio would’ve been vishkar based on the original ideas they had

[pseudo pond]

is there somewhere that has like. all of the current canon lore compiled into one document w/ links to comics, stories, and videos

also, are illari, sombra, and soldier currently working together on something relating to emre and chernobog?

i remember seeing something about it but i cant find it again

[brittle sky]

Not directly, but Sombra is hunting the conspiracy and seems to be working with and/or using to Soldier:76 (who is hunting the powers behind Overwatch's fall), Venture (who is tied up in Talon's interest in old artifacts), and Illari (who is mourning the Inti warriors and guarding their secrets) in service to that, which she at least claims are all realted. The symbolology of her conspiracy heavily imply Chernobog/Emre is involved in some way, and she does overtly blame him.

[thorn moss]

Gwishin Dva would be amazing but she’d likely be talon

[thorn moss]

Mirrorwatch Genji I could see him being mutated by mercy’s experiments into a weapon

I always imagined Moira and mercy would be swapped considering they’re like polar opposites in canon

Ethical scientist Moira

[spare fox]

The pinned links on this channel. It's not 100% up-to-date but it's the best place to start

[past copper]

3 to 2 days until we learn about our new hero

[zenith kernel]

Ngl I was kinda mad Zen had no modern timeline lore or even anything big or small like a short story or cinematic up till ram’s comic

[peak escarp]

he does have a short story

one of the best ones

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/stone-by-stone/

[zenith kernel]

I meant more where he’s the focus since this is more focused on Sym than Zen

[edgy tree]

I'd rather think Mirrorwatch Mercy would rather turn people into cyborgs

like Genji

[fathom grove]

PVE cutscene but yeah thats about it

[languid nacelle]

i think the plot for s2 will be about the infiltration of deadlock into grand mesa. i also think the character will be frankie working as a double agent inside of helix. imagine she stops an invasion staged by her allies and gets promoted to heads of security for helix at grand mesa.

alowing her to trojan horse her allies when they invade and take over wpgm

[civic lynx]

Season 2’s hero name leaked as ||Sierra || but I do like the idea of it being Frankie undercover (maybe she’s using the leaked name as a false identity)

[languid nacelle]

yeah exactly.

[civic lynx]

I think she’s already head of security considering they explicitly mention that role in vengeance comes

But this could be her first time actually being in control of a situation

[languid nacelle]

what if they ambushed a transfer and she is pretending to be that person who was supposed to be transferred?

because the redacted document was a transfer wasnt it?

[civic lynx]

I believe so

[languid nacelle]

she also vaugely reminds me of alejandra form the soldier 76 short.

but i know that thats pretty far fetched.

what if|| sierra|| is a hero name? like how junkrat is jamison fawkes?

that would end up meaning there could be a decent chance that it really is frankie?

[brittle sky]

What is there to indicate Frankie?

Like... At all?

Why give her a base skin and code name that would be from a one time heist?

[languid nacelle]

i just like this theories because the character matches frankies description pretty well 🤷‍♂️

plus, we have no idea how the character will feel, for example she could end up being like mizuki, a very hesitant double agent.

maybe she starts as a deadlock member but then decides that she doesnt really want to betray helix yada yada

i can spit out all the theories i want, but we wont know untill the 8th. i just really like the frankie theory

[brittle sky]

I personally find the connections way more tenuous. I don't think that face looks like a peer of Ashe, I think it's a stretch to call her build short and sturdy, she has no glasses, etc.

Like, why take this character if you're just looking to transform her into a different role and design, with her visual design so radically different it does not articulate the character you're saying she's based on?

[languid nacelle]

thats fair. however, theres also a good chance of a redesign like with whats probabley dmon

but no, yeah thats all fair

i just currently only have one other theory and it is even more far fetched. the alejandra one.

[brittle sky]

she'd be like 14

[languid nacelle]

my working theory there is that los muertes retaliated, killed her family, so she became a soldier for helix so that she could learn to protect herself (time has passed since that short)

the new character is not old

but this theory is an even bigger stretch than the frankie one.

i also think if im remembering correctly that the frankie theory developed because of the drone the character has. everyone was talking about the drone way before the shadow was even filled in.

[brittle sky]

Not old is not the same as 'a security contractor has a 14 year old in a military position'

that's a legal minor

[peak escarp]

also, the bakery her mother runs is beloved by the community, Los Muertos would never

[languid nacelle]

as i said, a stretch

[bleak skiff]

I was wondering, was venture born in Canada or Mexico

[brittle sky]

By all accounts, canada. While we don't have the exact place of birth for most of the cast, they are described as a canadian of mexican descent, and while their grandmother currently lives near dorado, there is no indication they themself were born outside of canada.

[ruby ridge]

Y’all seen the data mined image for hero 51?

She might be talon affiliated

[brittle sky]

no, ||she's set in opposition to talon, which is why the datamined image has a trooper back there. The datamined text demonstrates that.||

[ruby ridge]

What’s the entire datamined text?

[ruby ridge]

Ohhh that’s her name

That’s a Latino name no?

Dude she was leaked days ago??

Dann

Damn

[brittle sky]

it's also part of the NATO phonetic alphabet, so very likely just a callsign

[ruby ridge]

That image intrigued me becquse she doesn’t have the helix logo on her shirt

[brittle sky]

could be an error by the artist, or even if not I would not take that to mean they radically changed the character. Especially given the text ||ties her to grand mesa||

[hushed jetty]

ANRAN'S UPDATED LOOK HAS BEEN REVEALRD

my GOD she looks good

[odd slate]

omg anran's new design! huzzah!
https://youtube.com/shorts/GV1GvIuFQRA?si=I0uhmr5dK5PBw0_X

well...redone design

love her :3

[peak escarp]

huge improvement

[odd slate]

what's funny is to me, in game, she's always looked like this

i think bc of the comics/animatic

like i never really saw her old design, if that makes sense?

but im glad she looks so good and they took their time

[hushed jetty]

i wish they changed her nose a little but im good with this

[elfin bane]

yea goated changes

i was expecting a nose change but everything is still good

[thorn moss]

She looks more like herself

[obsidian axle]

Anran 🥹

[elfin bane]

her eyes do a lot

[potent jolt]

What about the nose?????

[shrewd pivot]

Ngl it doesn't change much except: eye shape, less eyeliner, thinner cheek, more opaque lipstick

Still doesn't look like the cinematic but it's def better than before

I was hoping they were going to change the nose shape atleast :(

Old version

[peak escarp]

she looks her age at least

[shrewd pivot]

Honestly I was expecting something more like this

[peak escarp]

next they should fix Vendetta's head

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah she def looks better than before, but they didn't capture her eyes nor nose from the cinematic. A slight nose change would make her look more related to Wuyang

[shrewd pivot]

PLEASE,,, her skull is so tiny and her lower jaw is so small,,,

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/toba-aquarium-baby-seal-head-bang-bobbing-nico-gif-20734369

[shrewd pivot]

Also, because of how Anran's new makeup is, her top lip sits weirdly flat imo bc its opaque instead of a gradient

I do like that the dots are darker tho

[peak escarp]

I didn't realize they were supposed to be freckles

I thought they were makeup

[shrewd pivot]

They aren't makeup??????!!!?!

[edgy meadow]

about as i expected

changes are good

[peak escarp]

nope, Aaron calls them freckles

they're more like beauty marks though

[edgy meadow]

not trend defying to the extent that people were calling for at the supreme height of the drama but they did a good job fixing the fact that she looked younger than wuyang

[shrewd pivot]

please be a misspeak then... that dot make up style is a reference to historical Chinese makeup

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I feel like they changed the age reasonably. she doesn't look like Wuyang's obviously younger sister anymore

I am kinda sad they didn't change the nose at all. Even if her nose stayed small, they could have changed the shape use to match Wuyang a bit more

I also think they positioned her eyebrows better. Not sure why the eyebrows are thinner? But the positioning is better

[edgy meadow]

its most likely not natural freckles

[edgy meadow]

probably as part of de-highlighting the eyes

[odd slate]

lowkey making her eyes smaller helps

like the iris and pupil

i think them being wide like a cat's adds to the cutesy factor

ykwim

[proud thistle]

Wait, so is Vendetta Doomfist IV now?

Since she killed Ogundimu

[peak escarp]

I don't think she would claim that title

[proud thistle]

That’s fair

[odd slate]

no she wouldnt

she wants her own legacy to be known

i do find it really funny that doom specifically can see any and all talon agents at all times

[spare fox]

She does have more of a resemblance to Wuyang now

Anran's new design

[odd slate]

yuh

very cute

[past copper]

Can't claim the title of someone who isn't dead

[spare fox]

are there going to be more episodes of Undivided dropped tomorrow?

[past copper]

They're supposedly dropping every Wednesday, but I don't know for sure

Never used Webtoon before

[spare fox]

me neither- someone who has, will there be MORE new ones in addition to the ones we could pay to see early last week? I'd assume they'd cost the coins to see them early, too?

[past copper]

I think I heard it was like 1.99 to read one early. But I don't know. Not exactly interested in having to deal with a pay wall just to read a comic

That being said. Just how many are dropping? Will it continue being 3 or just 1

From a lore continuation standpoint. 1 a week would probably get them through the year

[peak escarp]

I will let you know if there's more past the premium ones, or if it's just the premium ones unlocking

[spare fox]

Yeah, I did nab a pack of coins for something cheap like $4.99 USD and if all the premium ones are 7 coins each, I def have enough to get me through most of them so, not so much worried about the cost

I'm just eager to see if there's new ones tomorrow - even if they're premium - on top of eps 4-8

[brittle sky]

Clearly it's both a reference and freckles. Anran's rich ass parents did a gattica for her and got specifically placed freckles as an extra feature on their designer baby.

(Add it to the crackcanon of the wealthy are quietly juicing their scions in ow, like how lifeweaver's family gave him minor cybernetics as a matter of course or Ashe's hair and eye color could be explained as being born with albinism but got healthy levels melanin through childhood gene therapy)

[peak escarp]

I always thought Ashe was just a designer kid with custom hair/eye colour

[brittle sky]

I mean the real doylist reason is they went with stark white hair to contrast Cassidy's earthy dark hair, and she started the trend of them getting bored with brown eyes so they did red, but amid watsonian reasons I prefer the specificity and vibes of "came out unacceptable to her shit parents so then dropped oodles 'fixing' her, and she takes the freedom health gives to leave home and become a bandit."

Anran can be classic designer kid with big expectations, Ashe can be kid with congenital issues swept away because her parents consider it beneath them to have a kid with birth defects.

[peak escarp]

that works too

[fallow mantle]

What's ur thoughts on Juno...

[brittle sky]

what, the purple hair? I mean doylistically she's a genshin ass design who got a bit anime with the hair to hit the retrofuturism. Watsonian, best we got is maybe some weird chemical exposures on the colony? Or else she was such the princess of the colony her family dyed it for her from a young age.

Absolutely refuse to accept the idea her weird hair tones is because of growing up on mars. Massive stellar radiation, 40% gravity affecting bone development, and all the other effects should not just amount to 'quirky anime hair color'. If you're commited to an altered development, do it. Don't just use it as an excuse to give her nebula hair.

[fathom grove]

Didn't Juno's mother have purple hair

in the photo

or is it a black color and im misremembering

[spare fox]

yeah I'm pretty sure instances of unnatural or semi-unnatural hair and eye colors are just fun design choices and nothing more to be looked into or meaning to be ascribed to

like LW's and Ashe's white hair, anyone with red eyes, yellow eyes, etc

it's the same as how so many of the heroes are so tall like yeah it's been argued that nutrition etc will be better in the future but so many are just there being 6 and a half ft/ 2m tall or taller

same with the "bodybuilder" style physiques rather than the physiques of actual strong/fit/athletic people... it's superhero/comic design rules plain and simple

[fallow mantle]

Fr where the flabby arms and chests at 😭

[languid nacelle]

aint nobody built like mauga in real life 😐

[brittle sky]

the picture with mei seems a bit hazy, but the juno comic has her with clearly black hair, and also infant juno with the purple/pink hair

[odd slate]

i wonder what caused mizuki to lose his arm

if it was an accident or a punishment

which i guess ties into how long he's run with the hashimoto

[potent briar]

Or a mod that he wanted

[brittle sky]

the hashimoto decide they reallly needed to outdo the yakuza's pinky cutting thing

[odd slate]

i did not notice he had a metal arm for an embarrassingly long time

which is funny

[potent briar]

Could be a similar thing with vishkar prosthetics being required for a lot of hardlight weaving

[brittle sky]

that's actually unfounded, the vishkar thing

lw's really looks like a glove by all accounts, and with domina we see them happy to supply extra attached limbs at least for c suite, so sym is not an adequete data point to say they require archetects to have a prosthetic to produce hardlight.

[odd slate]

the chain is the reason why he has it ofc but did he always want the chain or did he already have the chain?
i guess that's a question that better aligns with "how did he lose his arm"

if he already had the chain, then clearly he didn't need to lose his arm - which means it was either an accident or a punishment, and the chain was implemented either way. probably made it easier, too.

if he wanted the chain, the only thing i can think of that makes some semblance of sense is "this is part of my curse, i'm destined to have this" - which, to me at least, why would he want more reminders of something he clearly hates and wants gone?

[shrewd pivot]

LW was confirmed to just be a glove yeah 🥀

[odd slate]

"purposeful mutilation because of self-loathing vs accident/punishment that ended up working better" type of deal

[odd slate]

honestly i thought he had a prosthetic too but the glove is still cool

[spare fox]

OW story explaining how a character lost a limb challenge: next-to-impossible

[shrewd pivot]

The chain was a part of the weapon Kiriko’s dad gave i thought?

Also in Kappa stories, the Kappa gets it's arm stolen by an attacker, and becomes indebted to provide medicine or labor so it's arm can be returned. Mizuki is a support and indebted to the Hashimoto. Unsure of how he lost his arm, but based on younger depictions of Mizuki, he had both arms prior to being forced to work with Hashimoto

[brittle sky]

Overwatch in general is a world where the evidence for people electively removing parts of their biological body to replace them with cybernetics is thin. A lot of characters have prosthetics, but none of them are by choice, and they make a big deal (see Genji) about the dysphoria and angst of losing one's physical body. Our one point of possible counterpointing is Sojourn, who says she chose the rocket legs, but broader sources state her limbs were necessary replacements, implying that the more likely meaning of her statement is she chose rocket legs vs. more normal capacity cybernetics.

It's also very notable that the notion of 'people should freely enhance their body for better utility or self expression' is relegated to fringe characters - Doomfist and his 'humanity should get stronger however' ethos, or the Phreaks, a group of countercultural anarcho-terrorists. If people are lopping off limbs for the hell of it (or replacing their jaw or whatever), then the Phreaks are effectively being edgy rebels about a commonplace practice.

[odd slate]

the glaive and the chain aren't connected, i dont think. you can see the coil within the arm and whenever i see the attack from the glaive, i never see the chain connected. unless i'm an idiot and missed it entirely

i would not be surprised if the hashimoto took his arm as a punishment or to start a debt with them (gangcore amirite) which fits with the kappa theme. i just wonder if we'd ever get anything that delves a bit deeper into that, especially since it would likely have more thematic impact than, say, junkrat who likely blew his leg and arm off with bombs

"taken for a reason vs. 'i blew me arm off'" basically

[shrewd pivot]

The issue is, the design of the glove has metal joint knuckles, not possible for a humam hand to fit in. 😔 So I don't blame ppl for thinking it wasn't a glove

Idk i personally find the idea that vishkar encouraged architects to replace thier own limbs to succeed, costing an arm and a leg, feels more interesting and dramatic for worldbuilding.

Alas, it's not the case.

[spare fox]

OW1 had the strong implication that a lot of people had lost limbs due to fighting or being a victim of the omnic crisis... iirc the case that there's some voluntary mod aspect to it wasn't really explored or added until OW2

[odd slate]

it would also be really interesting if the common folk were required to get these augmentations to use hardlight, while someone in power (cough cough domina) wouldn't need to alter their body at all

then sym just has a gun to be special idk

[shrewd pivot]

The weapon Mizuki has is a blade + chain. It's called kusarigama

[odd slate]

does the chain loop around to his weapon this entire time and i never fucking noticed

😭

[shrewd pivot]

It doesn't particularly matter if it's connected, it's the actual weapon style https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama

It's a scifi take on it

The blade part doesn't detach for example but Mizuki's does

[odd slate]

two separate chains

one for the weapon, one for his arm

maybe?

[shrewd pivot]

So my assumption was that the weapon Mizuki recieved was the combo of glaive and chain

[odd slate]

if it's not connected but he still has both

[shrewd pivot]

https://youtu.be/bT6iXb9N9TY?si=-7JmbQbgvCMWjquY

Maybe it's a combo hm

[odd slate]

id imagine the chain coils in his arm + wraps around his body

[brittle sky]

Do we have evidence of that? Sojourn is way less angsty than Genji about being heavily cyberdized, but even she and say Hazard have prosthetics out of necessity.

[odd slate]

must feel like a snake when it unwinds/retracts

[shrewd pivot]

Oh Kappa mythos says that if u pull one arm of a Kappa, the other gets shorter haha

[spare fox]

wdym evidence? Prior to OW2 there was no mention of people getting full on amputations for body mod purposes. It doesn't mean that it didn't happen, just that it hadn't come up before Sojourn and the Toronto map

[brittle sky]

I mean, Sojourn and Toronto don't offer evidence of it either.

[odd slate]

LMAO???

crying

poor mizuki

also how he runs...i noticed it more prominently with his streetwear skin and it cracks me UP

[shrewd pivot]

I think the existence of Canada prosthesis and Akande's family prosthesis company can allow a person to create an inference about the impacts of war

No explicit canon per se,

[young dragon]

Ana’s eye and Junkrat’s leg are early examples.

[spare fox]

huh? Sojourn elected to have some modifications done on top of the necessary ones due to her autoimmune disease. The Toronto map has the prosthetic center that caters to all kinds of prosthetic needs - medical and elective I can't log in now to see the details but

[brittle sky]

She never said any of her prosthetics were unnecessary. Just that it was an extra for them to be rocket legs.

[young dragon]

“I learned early on I couldn’t expect my body to keep up with me.”

[brittle sky]

Six can correct me since she has the Sojourn novel down, but I think the description there was that her limbs needed replacement alongside a lot of her organs as part of her autoimmune disease

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's true iirc

I think ur asking for explicit canon evidence if I understand right coarse?

[spare fox]

what I was saying is that there wasn't any mention of body mod-prosthetics prior to OW2
I didn't say that it didn't exist in canon, just that it wasn't explored until then

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear how exactly Junkrat lost his limbs, but we can guess it was explosions

Ana was in war, yes. Reinhardt too. Presumably Zarya got her scar in war as well.

[spare fox]

Jeff did say in an interview regarding Junkrat something along the lines of "he laughs at everything, even his own leg getting blown off"

[odd slate]

i honestly think rat blew his own limbs off 😭

[shrewd pivot]

Arguably Symmetra was body mods prosthesis? By technicalities bc it seemingly helps her do Vishkar hard light stuff

[spare fox]

and HotS isn't canon, but he does have a voiceline about how the explosives cost an arm and a leg, or at least a leg

[spare fox]

seemingly, but there's no confirmation whether the prosthesis was elective or medically necessary

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

Honestly it would be interesting if it was medically necessary... maybe a sabotage gone wrong, or workplace hazard

[spare fox]

like we don't know if she lost her arm due to injury or illness, or if it was perfectly healthy and had it replaced for other reasons but it didn't come up, regardless

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

[brittle sky]

What I'm disputing is that we have no hard evidence in OW1 or OW2 of people removing biological body parts electively to get cybernetic replacements, and indeed people that seem specifically pro that is are positioned as outliers on the subject (Doom and the Phreaks). We don't know the strict medical necessity or circumstances of part loss of many cast member, but none have positive evidence that they were conscious, non-medically necessary choices to lose those human body parts.

[young dragon]

If I remember right Egypts top snipers got one of their eyes replaced with cybernetics. Anas was already an implant before she lost it.

[spare fox]

I wasn't limiting it to the heroes, just that it exists as a thing that happens

[odd slate]

i think i recall seeing that too

[spare fox]

within the universe

[young dragon]

Do Hazard and the Phreaks count?

[odd slate]

ana's eye replacement

[brittle sky]

but I don't think the toronto clinic is evidence of that.

[brittle sky]

reread the comment

[shrewd pivot]

Is this bc cyborg face discrimination?

I def think full cyborg like Genji, Sojourn, Hazard, are outliers.

But a simple prosthesis for medical needs makes sense.

But a person getting prosthetic upgrades like one might get a tattoo 'bod mods' is unseen in canon (except for Phreaks) yeah

[young dragon]

Based off some of his lines, it seems like a fair amount of Omnics go to the Phreaks to be modified or adapt. Including R-7000s.

[shrewd pivot]

It's honestly really sad that R-7000s would feel they have to change thier chassis to not be targeted,,,

[odd slate]

yup

there's a lot there blizzard hasnt touched on yet

the contrast between r-7000s wanting mods to avoid targeted attacks and ramattra finding that a scoffable offense is interesting

not all of them are proud of what they are, i imagine, and want to distance themselves from their original purpose - even as ram thinks that's folly

[brittle sky]

I'm not really expecting cyborgs to have discrimination necessarily, just that Overwatch seems to assume willingly destorying parts of your body to get them replaced with cool robot parts is not standard social practice.

[spare fox]

it had to be harder for people to accept that R7000s were omnics like the pre-Anubis omnics
After all, after the Awakening the common people at large, even the world as a whole, didn't have the info we have

[odd slate]

i understand not wanting to delve too deeply into that without proper thought though since it can be easy to mess up a racism allegory story

[shrewd pivot]

And that's my issue, Specism is an interesting thing to explore in overwatch worldbuilding bc of omnics and space animals like Hammond, Winston, and the fact it was Anubis, the ecosystem management ai, that went rogue deeming humanity a threat to earth's ecosystems. The idea that humans create life without thought, thoughtless gods, etc.

Omnics really shouldn't be a racism allegory imo, bc omnics have metal bodies and can be hacked at any moment to turn into metal terminators. Being anti-omnic not compatible with a racism allegory, bc racism is not justifiable, meanwhile being warry of omnics that can turn into a metal terminators via hacking IS a justified real concern.

[odd slate]

i think once they awakened, though, that's when they stopped any risk of being hacked? unless something happened after that point

the bones are there, and i do see it, but there's not as much effort being placed there as there is with talon/ow

and i think it's bc they didn't want to delve into a situation that's so widely felt as opposed to a power struggle between two organizations

like there's a degree of separation between talon and overwatch's war that isn't really possible with racism, ykwim

[shrewd pivot]

They can still be hacked, in Pharah's comic an omnic gets hacked

Also today I presume we get that Moira comic lore drop?

[odd slate]

do we?

[civic lynx]

Hopefully

[odd slate]

ok so that WAS after the awakening, i remember reading abt that

[brittle sky]

ehhhhh, I think while no sci fi works well as a 1:1 allegory, they can be useful as themes with applicability to real world issues. There are concerns in anti-omnic hate that are not there in real world racism or xenophobia or whatever other ism (omnic hate has a lot of real world issues you could raw some comparisons to).

Like, omnics have different health concerns (and for them, hacking would be a health concern), but to fear, hate, or institutionally discriminate against a group of sapients based on them having different health concerns is still bad.

[odd slate]

just couldnt recall

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye, what i mean is that like, calling being anti-omnic as "robo-racism" doesn't work.

Omnic oppression still can reflect the discrimination humanity inflicts, xenophobia is a good example of a more broad a type of discrimination, humans can be xenophobic about a variety of topics.

[odd slate]

yup

[brittle sky]

I think the term, used as a shorthand and usually at least somewhat goofily, isn't crazily off. While there are ways it doesn't map onto real world racism (omnics, while the civilian and ravager models seem psychologically and philosophically identical to human minds in how they think and behave, are different beings than humans, while racism is arbitrary and bullshit lines within a single species), there are elements of anti-omnic discrimination (functional and official apartheid systems, stochastic violence, the pressure to get cosmetic alterations to hide a resemblance considered 'bad', Ramattra quoting black liberation leaders all the time and his big 'villain turn' being the same revelation MLK had in letter from a birmingham jail (albeit with very different methods of response), Nameless effectively just applying bel hooks like praxis) that clearly interact with and resemble racism specifically, rather than just broader xenophobia.

We can say it's not 1:1, and it's certainly not, but the elements of inspiration are there enough that I don't mind the term.

[odd slate]

i call ramattra robo malcom x all the time bc of that honestly
there are clear similarities between civil rights movement individuals and ramattra, and you could argue a bit with zenyatta too (mostly in the duality between peaceful and violent protest, where zen is more MLK and ram is more MX)

as a historian i just found that intriguing

[brittle sky]

I think the duality between Martin and Malcom is somewhat overblown (while they come from very distinct cultures and strains of black liberaton - MX in the NOI, Martin the black church, and advocated quite differently, I think history lessons have often oversimplified as MLK=good and successful civil rights, MX=bad and failed civil rights, and often effaces their similarities), but certainly the contrast is there in the style of zen/ram being a bit of a profx/magneto duality (who are also based in part on popular perceptions of MLK/MX)

[spare fox]

well, the point I was making about R7000's being extra scary compared to standard issue pre-crisis omnics was the fact that upon the Awakening, well, basically no one even really knew what had happened.
Even if they were told that omnics are basically people now, how do you even believe that as a human being? oh and an army of R7000's just plowed through and killed 2/3s of the nearest city and leveled it and most of your relatives with it last month so

like, if anything it'd be like saying "ok now guns are humans and have human rights" would be a better analogy... or maybe smartphones
that would probably be a better analogy than racism

[brittle sky]

again, seeking a singular 'correct' allegory is to just get rid of all nuance

There are ways and times where racism is not the most apt equivalent, or where your uh... iron giant bit is more relevant. But to cherry pick where one is applicable to say 'we can't ever consider it through this other lens' is to kind of just give up on media literacy

[spare fox]

no, that would be if I was saying that no racism allegory works

which I wasn't

[brittle sky]

i was taking 'x is a better allegory to y' as something of a 'stop considering y so much'. My apologies if you were only meaning to say 'x is also a consideration alongside y'

[spare fox]

kinda, but there really is more nuance to it

it's not like racism where the person doesn't trust and may even be violent against an innocent person just because of their skin color or where they come from

omnic hatred is, well, I'm saying it'd be harder to deal with because before the "Awakening switch was turned on" they were off killing people
Like an omnic moves in next door, that omnic has probably, most likely, killed human beings during the crisis

and it would be insanely difficult for someone who fought in the crisis - saw loved ones die to omnics - just to shrug and be like "yeah but they're different now so that doesn't matter anymore"

it's kind of a racism allegory, but also not, but also kind of an allegory for acceptance and healing after the racism part, too

and that's not even getting into the trauma for omnics not even knowing what they did during the crisis, having no control over themselves, not even having a sense of "self"

it does make me wonder what Zenyatta's whole backstory is

[brittle sky]

I mean, while I do think the 'making peace after conflict' is part of the omnic arc (though that's certainly not exclusive to the racism lens), it's somewhat weakened by the ow2 reveal that, while humans do see the face of their enemies in the crisis, it was... not the omnics that did that. Not omnics as persons, anyway. That doesn't make the viseral reaction different, and as you say the public doesn't necessarily know, but the perpetrators are very much not perpetrators, by and large.

It's a worthy lens to explore, but I still think you can read the current treatment of omnics as having lots of parallels to forms of real world discrimination, and that there are interesting narratives to explore there, too.

[spare fox]

true, and there are many many types of discrimination apart from racism
maybe even "discrimination" might be a better term for the allegory omnics draw

though it is a broader term in general but it serves what we're talking about better, imo

[brittle sky]

eh, I think noting specific forms of discrimination it parallels can be useful. London's policy to omnics has some pretty stark parallels to real historic policies that were expressions of racism specifically (apartheid states, jewish ghettos) for example

[odd slate]

also exclusionary spaces in jim crow american south

[brittle sky]

redlining

[odd slate]

yea

[odd slate]

hana was an actress right?

[brittle sky]

nah, pro gamer

[odd slate]

she's on a poster in hollywood

"center of my storm" or something

maybe it was a gaming thing

[swift trout]

Actor for publicity I think

[spare fox]

Yeah my theory is that it was VO work or similar, something she could do quickly or with a lot of stand-ins lol

[brittle sky]

as part of her celebrity (either earlier as a pro gamer or when that was translated into her work with MEKA) she did some acting yeah. It's just not her primary background

[odd slate]

so im not tweaking

still cool tho

[shrewd pivot]

Regardless of the actual canon, I don't think it's a good writing idea to have in the writing irl human groups compared to "mindless machines built as tools for labor, were hacked hivemind controlled to attack humanity first, then hivemind woke up and were given free will/'souls'", as that veers into bigoted conspiracies.

Humans are humans, and imo the focus on "your choices matter" for omnics, along side rhetorical scifi questions, reads a lot stronger than Ramattra being some kind of messy Malcolm X reference.

[shrewd pivot]

Hm ig no new moira lore comic today 🤔

this week is packed with releases tho for hero 51

[patent moth]

could be tomorrow, though that'd also be weird coinciding with the webtoon drop

[brittle sky]

Eh, any story is about humans. Stories about artificial beings, including omnics, are inherently stories about us (they can also be stories about tech or the other too). How we deal with the idea of this other, even one tangled with in world complications and sci fi conceits, will inevitably be a story about how we deal with a group of people we see as 'other'

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye, im just meaning that the topic can be handled more tactfully than "Ramattra is Malcolm X", I don't think irl people groups should be one to one with omnics

[dry pebble]

Current arcs of Omnics are very similar to events humanity have gone through in past, even their clothes like monks is hints to that

[brittle sky]

I mean no sci fi allegory is 1:1. If it was, it would not be allegory, it would just be a literal representation.

[dry pebble]

Isn't Moses would be more fitting example for that

But thats an obvious inspiration for character tho..

[shrewd pivot]

Near one to one allegory I mean. Like. Ramattra is NOT like Malcolm X is my point 😅

And I think the MLK vs Malcolm X, Magneto vs Professor X, etc is not really what Ramattra and Zenyatta represent in the story. Zenyatta represents optimism and hope in humanity, Ramattra represents pessimism and loss of hope in humanity.

[shrewd pivot]

More so a Shepard of the people archetype + religious moses "let my people go" motif yeah

[dry pebble]

This is my favorite thing about Ramattra as character too

Like, Overwatch really nailed as a job creating him. I'm constantly seeing videos about people glazing Ramattra rightfully

[shrewd pivot]

I find Ramattra to be a really interesting writing set up imo
The actual execution of Ramattra's lore aside, the set up of his story is interesting to me

[dry pebble]

THIS also has inspired Ramattra's moveset as well

[dry pebble]

Zenyatta sends orbs one by one, Ram deals damage with particles overtime

Zenyatta is hovering while Ramattra's attack, vortex. puts enemies down.

And most obviously, one has AOE healing while other is AOE damaging

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah they way they foil eachother is really fun

[dry pebble]

Even the fact considering all of these, Ramattra makes itself feel like a character that distincts itself from Zen and not necessarily tied to him to stand front is really good adjusting

[shrewd pivot]

It feels like Ramattra and Zenyatta are almost like that trope of gods/guardians/aliens watching over humanity and having a disagreement about humanity's future. Fun scifi set up imo, and playful with the "fantasy concept but scifi" aspect that overwatch does

[dry pebble]

I like the way you type, considering you have a clean english.

[dry pebble]

They feel like "fictional character and it's evil counterpat" trope

Their shape language is opposite of each other as well (ramattra is cubic and pointy while zen is rounded and soft) and shape language represents their motives perfectly

[shrewd pivot]

Usually in the "i agree with you, but I can't follow your path" writing for characters, one character is so obviously irredeemable, but I think Ramattra is nuanced enough that Ramattra isn't the usual "obviously bad evil guy" even despite the obvious harm null sector has caused

It preserves Zenyatta's actual heroic aspects imo, bc if Ramattra was super super far gone villain, it would paint Zenyatta as corrupt for still being cordial with Ramattra.

Idk, I appreciate that Ramattra was written as an antagonist but not an evil villain.

[dry pebble]

I swear if TBSkyen decides upon making an Overwatch hero design review and complicates about Ramattra i'm gonna end it all

[shrewd pivot]

The orb intros, Zenyatta patiently waits, Ramattra acts suddenly and grasps.

[dry pebble]

Isn't this the fact why is he liked alot

He isnt generic ahh villain that lost in its motives

And not a slave to its thoughts

[dry pebble]

There can be various of Hero Shooters that release in future but i swear none of em could've write their characters this human feeling than any other

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, Ramattra has nuance. Sadly PVE was canned so we don't know what exactly the whole story was, but I hope one year there is a year long arc exploring Null sector and Ramattra's part 2 plan

[dry pebble]

Also no, i'm not giving rivals as example those are adaptation

[dry pebble]

Next season we will be seeing loredrops about Ramattra

As far as we know he is located in Antartica, which will be adjusted in next season

[shrewd pivot]

I doubt Ramattra null sector part 2 arc will be next year, but a future year i would hope

Lunar colony space apes def will be an arc one year too

[dry pebble]

Man i would LOVE a second wave Null Sector skins

[dry pebble]

All those cool ass PVE enemies with badass designs only to gone to waste

Never speaked about it but some of the guys in the image that preserves all Null Sector robots doesn't look mass produced

Some look like they are individuals

Also Doomfist has cutten from their budget lol since he got killed i wonder if they gonna touch on that

Ram's bank account is on minuses

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist is not actually dead imo

And yeah i made jokes about Ramattra's credit card declining before lmafo, but seemingly he has what he needs atm

Enough that Vendetta doesn't see it worth attacking Ramattra in the arctic/antarctic (I presume antarctic)

[dry pebble]

Last comic dub we have seen Ram speaking of Reborn on Omnics towards Zenyatta

I speculate Ramattra forcibly gonna inject his own motives and believes to its kind by the headsets

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra seems to be waiting for humanity to war itself into extinction, and the subjugated omnics are just put into stasis.

[dry pebble]

Something in me also tells me that's gonna cause them to backfire and start a second global omnic crisis

But this sounds too off the chart

[dry pebble]

I don't think he is gonna wait for all that

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra says the line "i wanted to know how to save a world that refuses to be saved"

[shrewd pivot]

I think Ram thinks humanity (ie Vendetta and Talon) will war humanity into self destruction. Ie, Ramattra is not willing to save humanity from itself. But Ramattra is willing to save omnickind from itself (forcefully putting omnics into long sleep)

Ramattra says history will look on him kindly in a voice line iirc.

[dry pebble]

We will be getting the detective in next update

[shrewd pivot]

Hero 51 is the drone hero, not the omnic detective

[dry pebble]

I think he is gonna seperate them from the world rather than putting them into a long sleep

Just like how Moses did when his people has escaped Egypt

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra basically lays out a plan that once humanity is not an issue(gone, extinct, idk), omnics will be released onto earth free from human oppression https://youtu.be/kQ_y0QcorJ8?si=Mfe7ZRgYP0i3vctS

[dry pebble]

Honestly, forcing every action of Ramattra to Moses reference isn't logical

But it gets fun as it continues

Like it's 100% unintentional but him dropping robots from sky big airships always be gonna remind me of 10 Plagues

[shrewd pivot]

Null sector invasion reads as a robo-rapture meets alien invasion haha

[dry pebble]

Isn't Iris is technically rapture

Also is it true that there is a prophecy of Echo becoming one with Iris and they become some shit

I never heard of that

[shrewd pivot]

Nope, no such thing with Echo

Also the Iris was left behind after Aurora sacrificed herself, it's unknown what exactly the Iris is

[odd slate]

tbf half the shit i say is what makes sense to me and not anyone else, because that's how i function, and more often than not is a sly joke or reference. yeah, there are similarities to him being a malcolm x figure, but i'm not saying "he legitimately just is that, nothing else, case closed"

in any case i find myself understanding and sympathizing with ram more than zen, but that's probably because i'm a POC in a very unfortunate country to be a POC in and his struggles are felt a lot by people like me

he's definitely one of the better characters, and idk if they'll do more with him with this talon direction

the best i can think of is some counterattack that NS does when talon/ow are busy with each other and humanity is already on its last legs

i dont really think they'll do more, though, since that would essentially spell the end of most, if not all of, the other factions in favor of the null sector's likely victory, which would reduce the game's lore quite a bit

his whole purpose is somewhat in a catch-22 where he doesnt win because of that since his ultimate goal is to lead his people to freedom, which he can't truly do (in his eyes with his methods) because of humanity being in the way

and it's unfortunate

[odd slate]

this is the same logic at play when i call mizuki, niran and wuyang twinks
i know they're not twinks, and as someone who is in the queer community i can and will use that word, so people getting pissy over it are getting that way for legitimately no reason when i'm being silly about it

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye I just,, idk the fandom is often split between flanderizing Ram as Malcolm X / Magneto, or as a human-terminator when Ramattra is neither

And that's why I personally like to view omnics being a kind of mirror to humanity, that humanity inflicts its oppression onto omnics, but not that omnics are a direct allegory to a single irl group, aka not a direct allegory to black community struggles bc of the omnic lore being the whole "machine built for labor, hivemind attacked first, hivemind woke up with free will" bc it reads as bigoted conspiracies

Also yeah atm Ram is chilling in the antarctic presumably, and I doubt Vendetta would try to attack bc that's just poking a sleeping polar bear

[shrewd pivot]

I'm going to have to say while I understand, I disagree with shooting the shit publicly, bc it leads to ppl seeing the term said without understanding the term, then repeating and using that term in a derogatory way 😅

I wouldn't tell a gay man to not use the word ofc im just saying for understanding in a public space, especially between outright language barriers, it becomes a can of worms

[odd slate]

people find comfort in figures they look up to, and often make connections with struggles and characters they can understand on a personal level. as i mentioned before i understand the malcolm x similarities for more than one reason, though that's not all he is to me as a character. i don't fully see the religious lens bc i'm atheist and i see civil rights + struggle for justice/personhood far more than religious allegories, but that's based on how i was raised/my education.

it's more a collection of allegories and themes that are common within struggles for personhood and humanity, but not one specific sphere. there's always more than one thing at play

[odd slate]

a lot of things in the queer community are "a can of worms", and it's fucking exhausting tbh.
it's ridiculous i can't be silly over people i very clearly treasure and adore because some cis white person will get offended "on my behalf" and start white-knighting, thinking i need it

"twunk" also infinitely sounds worse and i would never call them that bc...no

i'll keep doing what i do bc i'm not going to let some person online get mad and say i have no right to use that word when i do
not hurting me and it's extremely minor all things considered. not like i'm calling them slurs, which i'm sure others are

i'm not explicitly talking about you, either, the general "you" rather

but back on the ram stuff to not let this spiral - tl;dr different childhoods + educations likely color how we see these characters and what allegories to apply to them

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye, im athiest too, the moses architype thing is bc Ramattra is a Shepard of his people with a staff (Moses) vs Anubis who hacks omnics (Ramses II of Egypt).

Ramattra combines "Shepard of the people" + "hivemind brainwasher" + "terminator" + "alien invasion / robo rapture" + freedom fighter (arguably LGBT+ coded bc the null sector founders include Nameless and it's about human culture oppression yet Nameless seems to judge Ramattra for being a R-7000)-- there's def a lot of inspos for Ramattra

[swift trout]

Oh thank gods I’m not the only one who calls them that

Sorry to interrupt

[odd slate]

HAHAHA you're so good dont even worry abt it

[swift trout]

Personally when it comes to Niran I alternate between twink and manhoe
I mean come on, that shirt

[odd slate]

yeah, and bc im not as focused on religion - more specifically the three abrahemic religions bc that's not my area of interest - i wouldnt see it so clearly

but people like magneto, who i know well as a comic buff, comes up easier

[shrewd pivot]

Oh by can of worms I mean that it creates a lot of confusion within multilingual third spaces! The definitions and translations lead to having to rehash over and over, which is what I meant by a can of worms (long complex discussions)

Being yourself in public should never be a can of worms! Existing in public should never be an issue, I apologize for my lackluster wording, I meant it in a communication factor it can cause confusion,

In personal groups its totally fine bc ppl there understand you don't mean it derogatory.

When it comes to online fandom (or really any online third spaces), it's hard to know if a stranger means well or not at first glance. And I've seen the term used in the fandom in a very derogatory way which feels weird to not atleast speak up when I see something.

I am autistic so my wording isn't great, but genuinely no malice intended!

To be tired of having to conform to hostile standards is completely understandable too, it's completely real. :( im sorry fandom is like that

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye! I honestly find the omnic lore interesting bc it draws on Ghost in the shell + Matrix imagery but also dharmic religions (Buddhism, etc) but in a scifi way where actual Hindu practices like Symmetra's Kathak dances are not delegitamized, leaving rhetorical questions like "do omnics have souls?" Without ever intending to answer the question, it creates fun robot scifi imo

[odd slate]

ah thats ok
im also...potentially on the spectrum so it's hard to discern meaning as well haha

even still ill usually make it pretty clear i mean it in a loving way, either by gushing about them beforehand or even within the same post

if people still get mad then idk what to tell them 😭?

[odd slate]

i think the intent is for omnics to have either a soul or some semblance of a soul. their entire religion/way of thought is fascinating

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it gets like that with reclaimed terms. 🥀

My rule of thumb, if a person is in the direct community, the person can use the reclaimed term, but I personally don't use reclaimed terms by default bc everyone has different preferences

With my Romani heritage, unfortunately has me opening the can of worms about certain terms so 😅 aaa

But yeye no malice intended

[shrewd pivot]

This is what I like about it!

Ghost in the shell's conclusion is that there is no ghost, no soul, and that conciousness within individual is a cage, so the MC uploads herself to the "net"

Very similar to how Aurora sacrificed herself(individual) to become /more/ (be it omnic kind, or if the iris ends up being akin to a god ai or something, that's speculation tho)

But iirc the Shambali did come to the conclusion omnics have souls like humans do