lore-discussion

[meager geyser]

Maybe Project Tytan was supposed to be more post-apo themed then a bit idealistic and hopeful in terms of prediction of the future - Overwatch

Keep in mind, Symmetra was also a support

[civic lynx]

Project titan based on the very disjointed and misaligned concept art seemed grittier than OW but not exactly post apocalyptic

Just seemed more military style and taking inspiration from cod’s love for brown and grey back then

[edgy meadow]

based on the very recent interview from Kaplan about titan we know that Titan had basically no coherent art direction

it was mostly just the artist teams coming up with ideas

and got meshed rather than adjusted to be put together

[civic lynx]

If titan had any sort of theme taken from the existing concepts we have I assume it would’ve turned out more like if a cod from the 360 era was made open world (in terms of visuals)

[digital linden]

u can kinda count lifeweaver despite him not being a member anymore

but i do want a true vishkar support preferably evil aligned (like domina) bc more villainous supports are something i think we need more of

also a junker support. so many cool factions to do one with

[crisp canyon]

OW1 and titan concepts were a lot more punk in style, it’s one thing I wish they would try more with new character designs, like hazard looks manufactured and he’s supposed to representing punk culture

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah he is way too santized looking to be a cyberpunk body modder. JunkerQueen looks more punk than Hazard.

Didn't even let Hazard have neon green punk hair...
Punk has never been about looking "conventional" it's about being visually "loud"

[crisp canyon]

Queen has the best punk design ironically considering she’s representing an oppressive position

[shrewd pivot]

Like the "good guy" punk looks like a poser-punk and the "bad guy" punk (she is a villain) looks more like a real punk lol

[crisp canyon]

A lot of the ow2 redesigns took a very comic vs mcu meme look that took away a lot of that style

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye, a part of ow1 charm was the "grit" like scratches and smudges and dirt

A lot of ow2 designs feel to "clean cut"

[tawny rover]

maybe the junker support can use the damage he deals to heal more like a tank

so normally they would heal little but more damage they deal the more they heal

[crisp canyon]

Only ow2 designs I think act improved were Lucio, brig

[brittle sky]

I think there are a few, but neither of those.

[digital linden]

love sym's ow2 design

[leaden iris]

ur so real for that when i first saw it i had to check it wasnt a skin

[thorn pebble]

Chat I got a question.

How old would ya'll say the oldest models of Omnics could theoretically be.

Sense we know Zen is 33, we know atleast 33 years old.

But I feel like the absoloute oldest have to be at most 40.

Cuz we don't really know the specfifc ages.

[peak escarp]

the older omnics are probably less advanced models

around 40 is a reasonable guess for the oldest omnics

[thorn pebble]

Gotcha.

One more question then.

Would you its possible for one of those old omnics, back when regulations where just being made, to have an incredibly early, shoddy adaptive AI.

Like Echo V.000001.

Asking for an OC im making.

[peak escarp]

early AI would probably be on the level of Siri or Alexa

but capable of limited learning

[thorn pebble]

That's what I was thinking.

Then post awakening shenanigans.

Actually do we know when Omnium factories where made too?

[peak escarp]

unclear

[thorn pebble]

Sounds about right.

SOrry for asking so much by the way.

[peak escarp]

probably as the demand for omnics rose, factories to make them had to be built

and the factories themselves were self-sustaining and automated

the size of cities

[thorn pebble]

Gotcha, so about a couple of years afterwards.

Cuz Zen is 33, and if we are going of of 40 years max.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe 7 years?

[peak escarp]

yeah something like that

Zen was probably built in an omnium

[thorn pebble]

Off giving sheep messages.

I dunno if this is a getting a bit headcannony though.

But I can work with this.

I can send the little lore bit I wrote for him if you wanna take a peek with what I GOT.

Its still a massive W.I.P I will say.

[peak escarp]

nah

I'm just here to answer lore questions

[thorn pebble]

Ah.

[spare fox]

possible explanation why Ana was at Gibraltar - she had info and I'm theorizing that the comms/Athena were compromised so she went there directly

[thin viper]

The timeline for ow is so confusing can anyone give a general idea of how stuff goes down

[balmy grove]

Lore wise, is Widowmaker a better sniper than current Ana? And if she is, would she be better than prime Ana?

[brittle sky]

While Widow vs. prime Ana is uncertain, Widow did outright beat Ana in a sniper duel while Ana still had her cybernetic eye. You could argue Ana was thrown by discovering Widow was Amelie, or that she had other priorities, but if you take the sniper match in the comic, she straight up shot out Ana's eye.

[brittle sky]

30+ years pre recall - People make a bunch of robots, and also some big AIs. One of the robots is sapient.
~30 years pre recall - One big AI seems to conclude that humans are a threat to the biosphere and sets to wipe them out, using the robots as tools. Lotsa people die.
~25 years pre recall - UN gets a crack team together - Overwatch - to fight back. Their hotshot roboticist helps the one sapient robot disperse her consicousness, granting all other robots sapience. They generally decide to stop fighting, big rogue AI gets arrested.
~ 25 years pre recall - Overwatch expands into big global peacekeeping org, with a private military and attached scientists, etc. Goes around being the supercops for a couple decades.
~6 years pre recall - Controversies about them being supercops, including a secret bracn that's the superCIA and clashes with the terror/mafia group Talon and the omnic rights group Null Sector, gets overwatch in trouble and eventually shut down. Several of its founding members are seemingly killed in incidents, including the big two leaders fighting each other until the main base blows up.
6-0 years pre recall - Overwatch agents disperse in their own ways. Talon rebuilds its strength, cuts an alliance with Null Sector (Talon likes chaos, and sees Null Sector's wish to do big moves as a good source). Winston, bummed that the world is still rough and surviving an assassination attempt on him, sends out the recall.
0-2 years post recall - Overwatch very illegally starts to rebuild, mostly tracer joining her old bud and them finding Mei, an ecopoint scientist who survived getted stranded. Everyone else kind of stalls whether they join or not, or is busy doing their own stuff.

2 years post recall - Null Sector does a big global attack (while widely destructive, the real goal is to forcibly rapture the minds of omnics to safe storage so they can't get merced by humans). A core group of ow agents responds and properly responds OW. Ana gives Cassidy a list of new agents to bring in. They fight Null Sector, who only partially succeeds in its goals.
2 years post recall, con'd - Null Sector gets most of what it wants and fucks off. Talon also got most of what it wanted, but then the daughter of a former council member shows up and knocks Doomfist (the previous most prominent councillor) out a window. She proceeds to carpet bomb overwatch (which was still very illegal and on its way to being dismantled by the UN) and also wants to invade apparently the entire world. This seems really good at giving Overwatch a bunch of legitimacy and reason to exist.

[thin viper]

Peak ok

[bold fern]

what and who is the iris

[dry pebble]

I don't like how for lore, they made domina "a secretly good person but she just puts on act!" Type of act when there's Ashe and such in the rove that can be filled in lore

It's not that i don't want a depth in that character, but the secret personality could have a much better dedication than what it is not for the reason she puts on act for.

[buoyant furnace]

how is domina "secretly good"? imo she is secretly insecure and tries to hide that, but not "good" as in kind/gentle/empathetic

[keen summit]

where is she ever considered good

[keen summit]

we dont know

[astral mantle]

Can someone explain zens ability, is it magic or science

[wooden drift]

We don't know, it would've probably been explained what his deal is in pve invasion , but... Y'know

[glad fox]

How is wuyang able to create water?

[glad fox]

What seems like magic is science we don't yet understand

[wise grotto]

Nothin zen does in game except for float is canon

[wooden drift]

It's just technology

[wise grotto]

Nothing he does in game is actually real
He only floats the balls are just prayer things

[wooden drift]

And he doesn't really creates it, more like controlling

[wooden drift]

I know that, it still wasn't explained tho

[wise grotto]

Well they never will be explained then csuse they aren’t real?

same with reapers orbs

[wooden drift]

He's floating is real

[wise grotto]

His floating is just
Gonna be levitation tech cause he does just regularly walk and stand around

In comics he’s seen just standing normally when talking to rammattra

[wooden drift]

But omnics don't have this tech tho

He just can do that

[wise grotto]

There is nothing saying the guy who lives somewhere with meditation beads that can float via tech has no access to levitation tech

[keen summit]

yeah and domina floats with tech too

so

[wooden drift]

But Zen's case clearly is not tech

[wise grotto]

Objectively is clearly has to be tech csuse magic doesn’t exist

[wooden drift]

Spiritual technology

[dawn topaz]

What seems like magic is sometimes science we don't yet understand.

[peak escarp]

Wuyang's staff condenses water from the air and allows him to control it

[glad fox]

how does the water heal though

[peak escarp]

the staff probably adds nanobiotic healing to the water, idk

they'll probably never explain it

[brittle sky]

Everyone is just super dehydrated

[peak escarp]

Overwatch is soft scifi, so the at best you'll get a name for the tech, at worst you'll get "it's tech don't worry about it"

[crisp canyon]

Have you ever felt the sea breeze on ur face when ur sick

[nocturne flint]

Dude i think Aurora just became a God and give Zen flight n shit

"Yo Ur pretty cool what if instead of parking tickets u should throw balls"

[hushed jetty]

i dont think we've ever seen him float in canon have we

did he float in the blizzconline pve trailers

[past copper]

Wonder what lore drop we get tomorrow

[civic lynx]

You can see him floating in one of the PvE cutscene clips from OW2’s gameplay trailer

Idk if this is still meant to be taken as canon tho

[hushed jetty]

i figure that it is

fair enough

looks like a cutscene, it means at least at Some Point his floating was canon which is good enough for me

[grand wedge]

We see him float while meditating in the Invasion cutscene . So yeah.

[grand wedge]

We haven’t seen Genji and Zenyatta meet again in canon… I don’t think we can use cancelled content as canon tho :/

[graceful lagoon]

How does he control it with his fingers and not a glove or something

[wooden drift]

It's sci fi game. Maybe it regulated to the motion of his hands, hence he controls it this way without the gloves

[digital linden]

does junker queen rule both junkertown and new junk city?

[broken heath]

I'm hoping for some Junkertown lore with Mauga. I'm very curious on how that's going to go. 👀

[crisp canyon]

Mauga shows up says hey queen you should join us and she goes oh ye why, he says cause why not, and she’s like aight give me all the money u got and promise me kills and he’s like okay just attack Busan. Cinema

Queen and Mauga are the types to get along

[wise grotto]

The orbs also float so it’s probsbly just some really fancy tech linked to many of those omnics who spend so much time in the monastery

[wooden drift]

Fuck no, mauga is fucking evil

And selfish

Queen at least cares about junkers

[crisp canyon]

She makes her subjects fight in arenas for entertainment

[wooden drift]

It's just their culture

Isn't really malicious

[crisp canyon]

Right cause Queen is very moral

[wooden drift]

It's like murdering these clunkers

Y'know

Their lifestyle

[crisp canyon]

Mauga and Queen are essentially boy girl of the same personality

[wooden drift]

Absolutely not

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[wooden drift]

There's nothing similar

[crisp canyon]

A big brute that loves violence, has a very cocky and egomaniacal attitude, that just believes they’re better

That describes both of them

[wooden drift]

I mean, if you're just taking jq personality in-game, you could say that she's cocky and egomaniac

But most heroes in-game act cocky

[crisp canyon]

They literally are the same personality idk what else you could even say they aren’t

[wooden drift]

Her whole cinematic clearly shows how different she is from mauga

[crisp canyon]

It really did not

[wooden drift]

Can you maybe give an example of her being egomaniac?

[wise grotto]

Not really at all
Mauga is fully selfish without any care about anything except what he enjoys
Jqs story is about vengeance and asife from the normal jq arena fighting that’s just culturally she isn’t outright evil
She’s less selfish because she’s actively a leader who isn’t challenged and no one’s actively attempting to over throw her vs the last guy

There’s like no examples of yet being an egomaniac either

[crisp canyon]

Ashe isn’t outright evil nor is sombra yet they are/were apart of talon

[wise grotto]

That’s not the point when comparing Mauga a dude who is outright evil and jq who isn’t

[crisp canyon]

Mauga evil is like Junkrat he just does stuff to do it, queen isn’t exactly heroic and just

[crisp canyon]

They both have a crazy ego

[wise grotto]

Mauga is cruel objectively
Queen is a reasonable ruler over a very chaotic culture and location
Mauga makes people think he’s generally less smart because he’s big dumb chaos guy to just better his own wants and to get to csuse more pain and chaos
He spends his free time hunting baptiste

Jq
Might have an ego but being egotistical maniac and having an ego are different
Maugas a psycho

There’s pretty much not a single thing lore wise you can put to make Mauga redeemable as a person
Jq on the other hand has multiple things plus is just a better ruler then the guy before her who exiled jq when she was still young

Mauga woukd hsve just killed the dude

Jq didn’t

[crisp canyon]

There still is nothing to imply they wouldn’t get along

Queen welcomed a hamster who loved violenced into her community I don’t think Mauga is gonna be much different

[wise grotto]

Most people are welcomed

Maugas there to get them to join talon and take orders from somebody else

That’s the part that isn’t gonna go down well

[crisp canyon]

Even in her official Overwatch thing it says she wants clout from all the factions

[wise grotto]

Clout vs being ordered by

Being under the umbrella of

They ain’t gonna take orders from talon for talons gain

[crisp canyon]

Queen isn’t exactly the brightest wouldn’t take much to say she’s calling the shots when she isn’t

It’s also probably gonna be a comic, so I don’t think there’s gonna be crazy conflict that comes out of it

[wooden drift]

I would be disappointed if it's not going to be cinematic, ngl

I wanna Hammond in the cinematic style

[crisp canyon]

Def no cinematic for it

[wise grotto]

I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s the BIG end of season moment
If not it’ll be an entire season on its own

This conflict or situation won’t be covered for a bit

[peak escarp]

what, Mauga going to the Junkers?

[crisp canyon]

It’s happening in season 4

[wooden drift]

And it would be wasteful making mauga's model to use in cinematic once

[wise grotto]

They gotta get through the helix thing and then they’re doing hashimotos

[wise grotto]

All of them have models for the cinematic

[peak escarp]

yeah looks like season 4

[crisp canyon]

Cinematic is all but confirmed gonna continue off of doom

[peak escarp]

season 2 will be Grand Mesa with Helix vs Deadlock, season 3 will be Yokai vs. Hashimoto

[wooden drift]

Laaame

[crisp canyon]

I doubt they do another cinematic just for Mauga meeting junker queen

[wise grotto]

I don’t see why unless they give the junkers a BIG reason to fight

[wooden drift]

There so much they could with it tho

[wise grotto]

Csuse they usually stay on there own

[crisp canyon]

The junkers live in hell it wouldn’t take much tbh

[wise grotto]

So I am curious WHAT talon could offer to make the junkers want to go to war period

[wise grotto]

They never mess with anyone else already unless they’re messed with themselves

[dusty wing]

remember blizzard is just an indie company

[wise grotto]

They’d need to be given a reason for that

[crisp canyon]

Like what a fight? That’s like the only path that would make it interesting lol

[crisp canyon]

They don’t mess with anyone because they’re in the outback 😭

[wise grotto]

Half of australias still fine and normal neither side touches eachother because neither side wants to
That’s fairly easily established

Otherwise why wouldn’t the junkers vi for power of the non outback part of Australia

[crisp canyon]

The outback one of the most isolated areas in the world, it takes a week to drive across Australia at constant pace, there wouldn’t be anything for them to do unless they burned resources just to do it

[wooden drift]

Like show off junkertown through mauga's perspective before he confronts queen. There's lots of things they go with cinematic to make it fun, especially with how rarely ow does anything with that whole place

[crisp canyon]

The junkers aren’t well thought out tbh, when they established that Sydney still existed it just made the idea of the junkers a joke

Like junkertown isn’t anything special

[crisp canyon]

Junkertown alr has a cinematic anyways and it sucks

If the focus of the cinematics is lore it makes more sense to continue what’s been established in them rather just Mauga meeting Queen and then it’s over and then next is kicking off season 1 of 27

[merry mason]

Has anyone gotten hazard, venture, illari, etc. as their “hero of the day” for the conquest challenges? I’m wondering if the more fringe characters are forced to a side, since characters not technically part of OW or Talon can still be part of the challenge.

[peak escarp]

the ones that get included are still somehow connected to Overwatch or Talon

Hazard, Venture and Illari don't have any connection

[dry pebble]

I read a fanmade headcanon once in tiktok talking about instead of the Junkers under the reign of, mauga was taking the previous king whose living in outcasts with him

[astral mantle]

One question, can't zen technically heal sigma's mind with peace, harmony and tranquility

Etc

[wise grotto]

No that bitch needs a therapist

[spare fox]

Is the mystery icon still by Australia on the OW hub? In game

Idk.. IF that icon is indeed Howl, and he is reintroduced to the mix, I totally see him being a match thrown into the powder keg that is the Junkers story

[astral mantle]

Enlightenment can help

I bet zenyetta can grant him peace of mind

[peak escarp]

Sigma's issues aren't psychological, they're physiological

his brain was damaged by the black hole

[astral mantle]

Well zenyetta can heal

[peak escarp]

not in the lore

Zenyatta and Lucio have no canonical healing

[hushed jetty]

zenyatta has the power of words and lucio has the power of vibes. that's about it

[left dirge]

guys can sm1 tell me the timeline?

I don’t understand anything anymore

[spare fox]

Check the pins on this channel

[left dirge]

hear me out

dr Mina Liao is kinda bad

[versed hill]

all of the doctors are lowkey

[meager geyser]

Wdym?
He brings up the morals. The wounds heal themselves.

That's canon

Trust me bro

[keen summit]

yknow what im sticking with my theory of the big mech being gwishin copying mekas instead of dmon

the colours kinda suit gwishin too

and it feels super angular

and the darkred instead of dmon bright red + they thought of going grey instead gives the feeling off gwishin more than dmon

though the teal highlights are weird then

[spare fox]

Hm the whole mech seems "skinnier" or flatter too, no?

Beast is def more thick

But mech redesigns do exist,too

After all, a redesign of Beast would be necessary as it wouldn't fit through some doors/hallways iirc

[keen summit]

yeah, which feels more gwishin esque? gwishin are known to adapt so what if the gwishin made a copy of multiple parts of meka creating the "ultimate" fighter drone

[crisp canyon]

I don’t think gwishin would put a visor on a self automated mech

[keen summit]

i mean

maybe its just a big camera

the colour of the visor is more why its likely not the case

what if, hear me out, beast fell into the water on a mission and its an modified version of it by the gwishin, so they had to put the vizor somewhere cuz otherwise itd be incomplete and its treated as integral to the build

[crisp canyon]

I think they redesigned the mech so it wasn’t just another dva

Beast is supposed to be a bear like how tokki is a rabbit, the new design more resembles bear standing up compared the old

[shrewd pivot]

More like, they redesigned the mech to be more humanoid for ease of pipeline animation

[keen summit]

icl i dont see a bear is see a gorilla

[shrewd pivot]

Pretty sure there was an image of a destroyed mech before too, so the idea is that the new mech is DMON getting a rebuilt mech

[keen summit]

well yes but that was fixed

that was in her cinematic

i just hope its gwishin cuz its 10x more interesting as we dont even have A gwishin hero

[glad fox]

what is the possible lore reason that widow and sombra left vendetta? i dont think sombra cared about doomfist or was loyal to him. she just cared about finding information on the conspiracy. widow isnt loyal to doom either.

reyes is the only one that makes sense since he is the one who killed vendetta's father

[peak escarp]

Sombra and Widow know a sinking ship when they see one

they weren't going to stick around to see how cold the water is

[glad fox]

but so far vendetta's been successful against ow

[peak escarp]

successful how? she didn't kill anyone

[wise grotto]

She killed. No one and made the whole world look at them like a threat

[peak escarp]

all she did was torched their base

Overwatch was about to be disbanded again, this will give them a reason to stick around and maybe even give them more support from the UN

by going after Overwatch Vendetta made things worse

but Sombra, Widow and Reaper left before she did that - they must have known that her warpath would be bad for Talon (or for them personally) in the long run

[boreal oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/818964182924918816/1483471687809765387/IMG_7215.png?ex=69bab62b&is=69b964ab&hm=6749763639bf1cfe4404f7b837c7d978cd9ffa13475fdc906ca6c5962e1a41b8&

please laugh

[peak escarp]

[weak violet]

Ha ha. Laughter

[boreal oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/sunset-shimmer-my-little-pony-mlp-equestria-girls-blushing-sunset-shimmer-blushing-gif-26123350

aw shucks

[broken eagle]

Are ps server up now?

[crisp canyon]

I do agree widow leaving makes no sense

Reaper and sombra I can understand

Widow prob left to fulfill that scrapped anti hero character arc from PvE

[hot rivet]

2 hours left on the event and it looks like ow is gonna win

[crisp canyon]

I believe sombra left because it would’ve been hard for her to accomplish her mission under vendettas leadership, I wonder if sombra is going to be looking for doom and maybe that’s how he comes back

[willow rose]

We did not fail winton

[crisp canyon]

And maybe she wouldn’t admit it but I think sombra views reaper and widow as friends

[willow rose]

But her best friend is still traped

[bold fern]

did doom deadass get mad at vendetta for not instant killing him

calling her out for "hesitating"

did he want to die

[crisp canyon]

Getting sigma isn’t exactly easy

[lavish osprey]

So while it seems it won't happen, I wonder if Blizzard would have had Echo join Talon if Talon won this week

[meager geyser]

Not gonna happen

They should have chosen a character like Mizuki for this event

Someone who doesn't have a pre-established faction to them

[quaint hound]

can anyone tldr me on emres lore?

[brittle sky]

early recruit to ow in the golden age, was generally a heroic goodie goodie, quit because ow kept playing fast and loose, vanished off the map, reappeared working part time for talon, a gig he seems to be forced to do by an unknown entity heavily speculated to be the god ai chernobog, which takes over his body outright when it needs to.

[lavish osprey]

Didn't he quit after the disastrous mission that turned into assassination?

I can't wait for the new hero in a few weeks

[quaint hound]

ohhh ok thank you!

[brittle sky]

His quitting is associated with an operation against the deep sea raiders (a polynesia based eco terrorist group noted as mauga's old job before going merc) went sour when blackwatch drew the raiders into the city too early and that led to . Not an assassination, but blackwatch was involved. Need to check if that's specifically when he quit though.

[willow rose]

So overwatch won did something happen lore wise in game today

[brittle sky]

numbani put up a banner

[lavish osprey]

Feels kinda bad they make a full skin then not put it in game

[brittle sky]

it'll enter in back through loot boxes in time, I'm sure

[civic lynx]

https://x.com/owcavalry/status/2033975492752429136?s=46

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry)

New Numbani Map Update in #Overwatch 🎉

The citizens of Numbani are celebrating their heroes with confetti, fireworks, and new banners, showing their support for Overwatch after winning the conquest meta event.

X · Mar 17, 2026, 6:35 PM

[lavish osprey]

I honestly thought they'd rig a tie and give both skins out lol

Makes me wonder what the Talon map update would have been. Banners in Gibraltar?

[shrewd pivot]

Who is to say they didn't rig overwatch winning? 🤔

Either way it's a fun thing to have.

Echo being hacked and used by Talon would have been an interesting outcome to Talon winning.

Idk if it was truly a player % choice tho bc some weeks had obviously stacked rewards, like with the Domina week having rewards Domina themed for Talon but not Lúcio themed for overwatch

If it was true player % choices, then cool! Players believe in overwatch #hope

[lavish osprey]

I mean it makes sense that Domina, Jetpack Cat, and Mizuki won their weeks

[cyan osprey]

is there a reason symmetra blinks weird

[worthy rose]

what is the meaning of tracermari

[devout pawn]

lore.

[south topaz]

Where's my lore drop

[brittle sky]

a little baseless to presume it rigged

[brittle sky]

Everyone won their week, which is how it broke ow

[shrewd pivot]

Not saying they absolutely did, I'm just suspicious of it, bc of how the weekly rewards were obviously stacked towards one side, and how engagement is the financial goal for such an event.

An overwatch win last minute is GOATED if its true player %

[brittle sky]

I mean thumb on the scale by having more "appealing" rewards is not the same as spoofing numbers, and was likely just a result of having rewards specific to new characters vs. generalized ones rather than just... What made sense.

Like why be suspicious of it. Overwatch was consistently winning week 5 from like friday onward.

[frozen rampart]

So after taking a good look at Genji's newest skin, I realized just how badly Hanzo did him in when he was instructed to just end his life.

Was it ever explained why Hanzo killed his own brother with such brutality?

[acoustic ice]

is it reasonable to think that hanzo could possibly join overwatch with a lot of convincing

cuz after all he is against the hashimotos so he should be against talon

[brittle sky]

The details are hazy, but it seems like it was a come to Jesus the elders wanted him to do to get genji in line (genji being a profligate playboy type and therefore seen as a weak link) that became a heated fight that got physical and specifically physical with swords (whether one way or a duel of some kind is unclear, though doc could correct me).

Hanzo is extremely good with a sword, and given it was likely anima tech maybe it did some extra effect (we don't really know what anima actually does, mind you)

[frozen rampart]

Well if it became a duel it was one sided as hell with Hanzo sustaining absolutely no scar (that we know of) from it lol

[wooden drift]

Yeah, I'm not playing this crappy map to see it

[civic lynx]

I got the map earlier and the changes just weren’t there 😭

[wooden drift]

Sorry for your loss

[civic lynx]

We won it’s chill

I packed up the enemy team by playing hog even with my duo trolling me with Mei walls

[wooden drift]

Even winning doesn't feel right on numbani

[wooden drift]

Well you kinda played with currently overpowered hero, so its not really unexpected

[civic lynx]

I can’t hit hooks to save my life so I’m lowkey surprised it worked

Just relied on the perk that makes his secondary fire better 😭

[wooden drift]

Did it worked?

[civic lynx]

Yeah I managed to diff a tracer repeatedly and it helped me bully a mauga

[wooden drift]

Not diffing hog on mauga..

Maybe it was just enemy tank not good

[civic lynx]

The mauga kept trying to chase my Juno around instead of going for me 😭

[wooden drift]

Got intimidated by you

[brittle sky]

I mean Hanzo was real good at his sword and like the tryhard heir. Genji up to that point was slacking on his sword work and just bumming around the arcade. Makes sense.

[shrewd pivot]

Bc i don't trust big ips to be honest about engagement based events (there is financial incentive to fake things for the best hype cycle) 🥀 there was a recent panel that put things into perspective, about how data was used to inform what new events to make, it's very much 'sell people the idea they are being heard' as a business strategy https://x.com/rolanberrypie/status/2032551700201164867#m

✧ M'aya @ recovering from gdc｜海外ナイト ✧ (@rolanberryp...

At the Overwatch session: "We always planned on making a PvE mode... it gradually drew resources away from the PvP experience"

X · Mar 13, 2026, 8:17 PM

[crimson hearth]

I guess it's cool based off events in the law with the PVP events like we had recently. Especially since OverWatch side against talon turns out percentages.

[shrewd pivot]

My suspect view of it comes from how overwatch crew has discussed player engagement data, and this part.

But yeah it could very well be true player % tho ofc, not saying it for sure isn't real player %.

Regardless, it's nice to see the final result of overwatch side winning actually having an impact in the game (the numbani celebration is probably canon adjacent...?)

[crimson hearth]

Mind you, I was kind of hoping Winston would get captured. Just to find out talon had a new leader and have a better understanding what's going on. As well as letting the younger or newer OverWatch characters do something about it to get Winston back.

[spare fox]

Keep in mind this is only chapter 1, and Gibraltar is destroyed. There's likely bigger things to come

[brittle sky]

That peanut butter and Winston plush on sereveza remain unexplained as of yet.

[mellow igloo]

How the fuck did Genji survive his battle with Hanzo??

like can someone explain their fight??

how much injuries Genji suffered

if Hanzo used the dragon spirits during it

[mellow igloo]

Gibratlar is destroyed but I still get it in my ranked games

bullshitttt

shouldve just completely wiped it off the map

no more Gibraltar

fuck that map

[peak escarp]

we don't know the details of their fight, only that it left Genji unable to walk

and barely alive

[mellow igloo]

okay

but what about his injuries

how much of his body was lost

[peak escarp]

we don't know

some of his cybernetics probably replaced healthy body parts in order to make him a better weapon

similar to Sojourn - she needed cybernetic organs to stop her autoimmune disorder from killing her, but she voluntarily got rocket legs because those are cool

there are fan theories on how much of his body remains, but nothing official has been given

[brittle sky]

Given that mercy oversaw the cybernetic reconstruction, that seems like a wild betrayal of her values. Like sure overwatch would go on to weaponize him and likely chose cybernetics that were weapons grade in mind, but purposefully replacing healthy body parts to be a better weapon while he was either unable to consent or too full of rage to consent seems wildly out of charactr for her to go along with (seems out of character to go along with it even if he did conformed consent)

[peak escarp]

Genji did consent and Mercy did object, but complied with orders

she was wary of him being weaponized

[brittle sky]

I think that places her motive, but I think there's zero evidence to extrapolate that to replacing healthy body parts.

[peak escarp]

it's the last line of that section that makes me think some of his upgrades weren't medically necessary

[brittle sky]

rebuild and enhance does not mean 'cut and replace'

[peak escarp]

🤷‍♀️

I don't think they'll ever detail exactly what happened and when

[soft carbon]

Mods, we've got a spambot

<@&397922982632226816>

[empty socket]

Dealt with :)

[mellow lily]

banned, thanku

[soft carbon]

Yay, I helped

[meager geyser]

Bro got his jaw cut off. Overwatch probably had to hide in the nearby bush, wait for the fight to end and immediately jump out of it, the moment Hanzo turned around for Genji to not bleed out 💀

[brittle sky]

Maybe, but I think voluntary and elective replacement of organic body parts is something ow treats as a big deal, otherwise phreaks' big rebellion is their cybernetics are kinda colorful.

Sojourn getting rocket legs specifically was elective, but I think we have established elsewhere she needed cybernetic legs broadly and the splurge was purely in what those legs were.

[pale valve]

We know that Vendetta sent Mauga to Junkertown in order to find out what drives Junkerqueen and what Vendetta needs in order to strike a deal with her, but when are we getting the actual comic of Mauga attempting such?

Highly doubt Junkerqueen is making any deals with Talon, I can even imagine Mauga joining the junkers tbh

[civic lynx]

IMO season 4 (August - early October) seems to be when they’re teasing it will happen. Both s2 and s3 have banners that tease the main locations for the season’s storylines (s2 is route 66 and s3 is Tokyo) so s4 would seemingly be when JQ becomes the focus of the story from mauga arriving as well as dva/d.mon’s storyline

[digital linden]

mauga joining the junkers would actually be really fun

also (this is mainly assumptions) after defecting do we think reaper sombra and widow have split off from one another or are they keeping as a group

[hazy nebula]

<@&397922982632226816> seems we have a .. person here ^^

[empty socket]

thank you :-)

[grave saddle]

I imagine they have gone separate ways because they all have different goals it seems. Especially widow seems like she needs some time to find herself without Moira

[pastel stirrup]

widow leaving seems very strange

not sure i like it

[grave saddle]

Took a chaotic opportunity to escape Moira it seems like

[pastel stirrup]

yea but i thought she was too brainwashed

she killed gerard and went to talon on her own didn't she
why would she want to escape now just because of vendetta

[civic lynx]

it’s been implied in game (I know it’s not canon but sometimes it hints at the future) the brainwashing is slowly fading and she’s starting to feel emotions again, maybe it has worn off even further and she’s realised she no longer wants to do this and had the perfect chance to leave

[brittle sky]

because vendetta is a loser

[grave saddle]

Talon forced her to do that. You could argue the talon that made her widow maker is now gone with vendetta in charge and so mentally she was strong enough to escape her reliance on the drugs from Moira

[peak escarp]

Declassified says Genji was in the hospital and not expected to survive

the only evidence for his jaw being cut off is the New Era skin, which may not even be canon

Declassified shows his jaw intact while Mercy restored him

[cyan osprey]

has anyone noticed symettra has a weird blinking animation

[proud thistle]

What are the whereabouts of every character circa 2060 (mid golden age)?

[dawn topaz]

Now she can focus on pursuing a relationship with Tracer and Emily 😌

[brittle sky]

Again, relying on an external artist commission that likely did not specify details of his injuries beyond what's obvious in his blackwatch skin for a piece of side media also seems dicey.

[proud thistle]

did some quick research as to the whereabouts of every character circa 2050. Does anyone want to see what I've figured out?

any plans to update this? It's been two and a half years

I think this might be better as a spreadsheet >_<

[meager geyser]

I thought that the new era skins are canon

[meager geyser]

Where is this from?

[acoustic ice]

are the legless npc omnics in various maps (rialto, c*rcuit royale, oasis) affected by the iris?

[peak escarp]

it's from Overwatch Declassified, a lore book that was published a couple years ago

[peak escarp]

yes, I just haven't gotten around to it

it's done by hand so it takes a bit of effort

[proud thistle]

No problem. I can only imagine how much there is now that they’re actually focusing on storytelling

[proud thistle]

I don’t see why not

[peak escarp]

we haven't seen them in the comics and haven't been given any other indicators that the New Era or the Talon Empire skins are canon

[proud thistle]

Also, Doctor Six, are you the resident lore expert?

[peak escarp]

yes

[proud thistle]

yay

[peak escarp]

although I am at work so you have 15 minutes to ask questions before my break is over

[proud thistle]

No problem

I was thinking about running a ttrpg campaign set during overwatch’s glory days (circa 2060), with players members of an Overwatch field team. What should I know?

[peak escarp]

is this before Uprising?

[proud thistle]

Before uprising, AFAIK

Actually, not AFAIK

Definitely before uprising

Before everything went to s**t for the organization

[peak escarp]

Tracer and Winston aren't field agents yet, Genji is still in recovery (or still with the Shimada, depending how far back you are)

[proud thistle]

Mhm

I did a quick search of the whereabouts of every character, do you mind fact checking me?

[peak escarp]

Cassidy, Reyes and Gerard Lacroix go on "vacations" to do covert ops - Blackwatch isn't on the books

sure, I'll fact check

you can't post big text or you'll get muted

put it in a pastebin or Google doc and link it

when you get unmuted

[proud thistle]

@peak escarp
|https://pastebin.com/F73UaM2K

[peak escarp]

everything looks correct

[proud thistle]

yay

[digital linden]

didnt know moira was part of blackwatch for so long

i believe she was 40 when it disbanded following the venice incident?

[covert cipher]

Whos better cat or illari?

[peak escarp]

actually, good point

Moira was recruited to Blackwatch after Genji, so she wouldn't be a member yet

[pale valve]

I know we aren't talking about lore here 😭

[wooden drift]

I think it's lore power scaling

[pale valve]

In what universe is a cat beating the power of the sun

[wooden drift]

Well Illari isn't bulletproof so cat has some chances

[pale valve]

I mean maybe if cat attacked her while she was asleep lmao, but Illari's win chance is like 99.9%

Illari is arguably the second strongest character in the lore

Cat is just a cat

Also I'm almost positive that person meant to ask who was better ingame

[wise badge]

is echo an omnic

or nah

[spare fox]

No, Echo was created after the Awakening

Neither is Orisa

[meager geyser]

I LOVE POWERSCALING

RAHHH

[pale valve]

Who wins in a 1v1, JQ or Mauga? No rules

[meager geyser]

With game weapons?

Very hard question

I'd say Mauga, but it's a VERY close one

[regal heath]

I wonder, if there's no such thing as "magic" in Overwatch, how in the heck does Tracer's time displacement and Sigma's... uhh gravity stuff work, then?

[regal heath]

Can't JQ's magnetic arm bands mess up Mauga's cyber implants?

[cunning copper]

one of the biggest plotholes in ow is the magic thing

since they went ahead and said there is no magic or whatever

they screwed themselfes

good luck writing obviously magic powers as somehow logical trying to use tech boom in the future as the inspiration for how half of these things work

[buoyant furnace]

you can still have sth like "soft science fiction", no need for magic

[spare fox]

That's not what a plot hole is. And since Day 1 they wanted overwatch's setting to be a "hopeful future." If magic were something that exists, it would take away from that...

[cunning copper]

kirikos power has been unexplained until a few days ago

[buoyant furnace]

so what's still open then?

[cunning copper]

good question. i guess sigma is self explanatory more or less

hmm

anran? wuyang?

i guess you could tie wuyang to his weapon?

[buoyant furnace]

and anran has her fans

just checked the fan wiki if anything already has been explained:
At one point Metal College's first-year Ming, family friend of the Ye siblings, created a fire staff that could condense and release its fire balls as a test weapon for fourth-year Anran[4] to demonstrate during a collaboration project. This stimulated Wuyang to develop the Xuanwu staff

[spare fox]

Unexplained, yes. Just because it wasn't explained doesn't mean it's magic. And the fact that the writers have said multiple times that there's no magic in the OW universe

[cunning copper]

fair enough

[mellow igloo]

Isnt Dva the youngest Overwatch member now? not Tracer

[mellow igloo]

erm

??

I got pinged

[snow fractal]

I think Wuyang is the youngest

At 18

While Dva is around 21

[mellow igloo]

isnt she 20?

she was 18 in overwatch 1 no?

[brittle sky]

Juno

[snow fractal]

Yeah but Overwatch 1 was 2 years ago in the current timeline

[brittle sky]

Dva was 19 in ow1, it's been 2 years since then in world

[mellow igloo]

I wouldnt actually say shes that young

[mellow igloo]

oh

[snow fractal]

Juno or Wuyang are the youngest

[mellow igloo]

How old is Juno?????

[brittle sky]

19

[snow fractal]

At 18 with Wuyang beung a college freshman and Juno being at the early stages of adulthood with

[mellow igloo]

so it would be Wuyang then?

[snow fractal]

Plus human minors cant be in a game where they can be shot at and die

[mellow igloo]

cant*

[snow fractal]

Yeah

[brittle sky]

I think she's older than Wuyang by... a month and a half. They are both 19

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/juno/
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/wuyang/

[snow fractal]

Ohh close enough

[mellow igloo]

Alot of yapping in the embed but nothing that could quickly explain what the link is saying 😭

[snow fractal]

Bro what

[brittle sky]

can't help the embed structure. follow the link and it straight says their ages

[mellow igloo]

yeah ik

but I was just saying the embed structure couldve easily said something about the character

instead of yk

what it says

nvm

I'm being nit picky

[buoyant furnace]

the youngest non-human is Orisa (1), the youngest human is Illari (18)

[merry patrol]

Does anyone feel like jetpack cat is rushed?

[gloomy mauve]

Is it bad that im disappointed that overwatch won the event🧍‍♂️

I needed an update where talon is fully incontrol and now thats not going to happen

[cyan osprey]

good always beats evil

is probably the motto

i wonder if they would replace the game's name with talon if they won lol

[brittle sky]

I think it's less policy of cheating and more people generally went with the swag related to a new character.

Seems like the extent would be a further map edit. Maybe talon raised some flags and venny's fash kit over Gibraltar. Instead they emphasized overwatch's next move,a apparently to numbani

[stark folio]

Numbani is the new overwatch base?

[grave saddle]

Strategically it does make the most sense. I do think now that overwatch is quite big we will see them start to split up across new watchpoints like they used to such as Antarctica

Since that’s getting a rework

[meager geyser]

Overwatch has always been "a view of hopeful future"

Sure there are a lot of bad things in that world

But compared to other sci-fi franchises, Overwatch is almost an utopia

[peak escarp]

Antarctica was abandoned because it was too inaccessible

[past copper]

Ramattra: inaccessible to humans perhaps...

[peak escarp]

probably why he chose it honestly

[spare fox]

yeah I don't see Antarctica being used by Overwatch other than for science and research

they're not going to use it as a watchpoint- can you imagine?
Null Sector is Attacking Gothenberg!
Ok but there's an Antarctic storm raging and there's 37 feet of ice and snow piled up... we can't get out for 3 more months

plus the cost and resources it would take just to get there and keep a whole team there like... are they going to put them all in cryostasis until another attack?

idk why it was so popular that Antarctica was where they were going after Gibraltar fell

[peak escarp]

it's entirely based on that map getting reworked

[spare fox]

Numbani makes much more sense - though... is it confirmed that they're setting up operations there?

[peak escarp]

no, there's just banners up celebrating them

[brittle sky]

Yeah, just a possibility if one chooses to interpret the banners as like a welcome posters rather than just celebrating that the org several countries away they didn't die when their base burned down.

[silk stag]

how fast can mercy fly in lore? With and without Valkyrie

[spare fox]

ok yeah I thought so, I saw the changes - that don't say that they're relocating to Numbani - and then suddenly there's an influx of posts about how they are

but Numbani makes more sense than Antarctica

[brittle sky]

I mean without the valkyrie suit, she can't fly at all. And I'm not sure valkyrie as like, a seperate mode ala her ult is a canonical overdrive of her suit or not.

[radiant isle]

Can someone tell me abt the lore idk what is even happening i need the whole thing

[plain rover]

talon are the good guys unintentially

freeing the wrold from the OW one world order probally centered in Tel Aviv

[meager geyser]

https://giphy.com/gifs/graggletwo-homelander-meme-what-is-he-talking-about-7DbgjlgPaqkxoX4fOy

[plain rover]

no image

[brittle sky]

Coyote is trolling, in case it wasn't obvious

[true oracle]

Can someone here explain to me how a guy(doom) that can catch tracer out blink loses to vendetta? Like a coherent explanation

[plain rover]

nope. I gen beleive OW is a one world order growing in the process, talon is literally not meaning too but disrupting it

OW fights to Police the world and be in everyones buisness

fuck ow

[wise grotto]

vendetta is literally just a war focused dictator if your not trolling your kinda just dumb

[meager geyser]

Vendetta was training for years to take down Doomfist and it was also Akande's pride that made him loose. He genuinely didn't except Vendetta to walk into his office and just cut his arm off.

There's also a writing explanation.
The only fight he won, was against former Doomfist, and that was off screen
He hasn't won a single on-screen battle
He lost to Winston, Orisa and now he lost to Vendetta

Doomfist is the type of powerful character that exists only to show that there are other powerful characters in the universe. You know how in many shonen anime and stuff like that main protagonists fight a Villain for multiple seasons, then new season comes out and the main villain gets defeated by a new villain in episode one to show that this new villain is even stronger then the previous one? Yeah, that happened to Doomfist.

[wise grotto]

the universe of ow doesnt lean into the grey version of ow rn literally at all theres like literally nothing about them policing the world theyre fighting exclusively since reforming to stop either nullsector or now talon who are attacking and taking over places left and right

[meager geyser]

The whole "Doomfist shouldn't have lost to Vendetta!" is just a complaiment from powerscalers and powerscaling is dumb

[plain rover]

OW literally evolved into a global managment operation. Strike teams on every continet and avalaible in every region

[wise grotto]

null sector left a LOT of human casualties and subjagated a majority of the worlds omnics (somewhere around 80 percent or more)
talon without hesitation has taken over a city already bombed and attacked a base and has planned two other either attacks (hiring a fully criminal group to steal military tech)

[plain rover]

Im not saying Talon are doing this on Purpose

its only a result of their actions

[wise grotto]

thats literally not the current version of ow nor did they actually police the world back then anyway

[plain rover]

so what happened twin

[meager geyser]

He's ragebaiting. Leave him alone

[wise grotto]

they where just a giant military group that after blackwatch went south was shut down by the un

[plain rover]

so a global org backed by the Un isnt a world order>

eyes verywhere?

[wise grotto]

the current ow is literally just a taskforce of people they arent even an org period

eyes everywhere isnt stated nor shown ytou have to be making up bonus details to be getting this info

[plain rover]

The British government explicitly forbade Overwatch from intervening in London. Overwatch ignored them and sent a strike team anyway. While they "saved" people, they proved that no country actually had control over its own territory if Overwatch decided otherwise.

alos global hegeomoy degrages hundreds of years of Culture, uniqnuess, value of the land

[wise grotto]

again that last one would require things that dont exist in the games

[plain rover]

Winston is a monkey in a lab. He doesnt understand human culture

[meager geyser]

This is exactly what talon wants to achieve

[wise grotto]

ow as a group didnt actually send anyone there the squad acted independantly primarily

[plain rover]

but they never will, and in their pursuit they preserve natinal identie

[wise grotto]

winston isnt incharge of ow at most he can recruit people but actually isnt supposed to

[meager geyser]

But you said that talon are good guys

[plain rover]

they are but i was baiting slightly. They ARE the good guys by preserving culture, langauge autonomy, and more

[meager geyser]

Do you also have any prove that talon won't destroy national indietys?

[plain rover]

simply by being disruptive

[plain rover]

they arent strong enough

[plain rover]

they dont mean to

[meager geyser]

But would they do it if they are the good guys?

[plain rover]

just a side affect

[plain rover]

huh

[wise grotto]

so talon trying purposely to literally take over the world by force isnt bad (vishkar being apart of talon who have literally taken over cultures in lore before)
but ow being a task force of people that can fight against talon and major threats and thats about it (cause thats literally all theyre gonna be in the current story period) are bad

like you can rag on the original ow all you want but that version doesnt exist

its been shut down its gone already'

[plain rover]

no its bad, jus like isis, but when America was bullying the world, ANYBODY who could show that they werent as strong as they say, is a good guy in histories eyes

the taliban

[meager geyser]

You said that talon are good guys because they are too weak to strip people of national identity. You're saying that they're evil, but weak so good

[wise grotto]

that isnt even comparable to the current version of either talon or ow

[plain rover]

they personally are attempting to do something bad. By accident they create the conditions for preservation

[plain rover]

they split up and that causes even more division

[wise grotto]

talon is the massive group with an army and giant amounts of money and power and ow is just a taskforce of people that can fight back

[plain rover]

your literally wrong

[wise grotto]

ow isnt a giant thing period right now

[meager geyser]

So they want to rule the world which is evil, but they don't so they're good?

[plain rover]

Its literally stated to be a Global institution😭

[wise grotto]

im not ow isnt big currently
talon has all of talon and vishkars funding and groups like deadlock and tech stolen from nullsector that powered the massive city takeover ships they had plus the power vendetta had beforehand

[plain rover]

yea cuz therye pr3venting other more worse things from happening.

[meager geyser]

Old Overwatch an reactivated Overwatch are two different things

[plain rover]

wdym

[meager geyser]

Like what?

[wise grotto]

but they arent currently they just have left over bases
the only two people who can and have recruited members are soj and winston
theyve only existed in canon now for like a week to two and old ow WAS a global institution current ow is the reactivated group of people around soj and winston

[plain rover]

Cultrual hegemony

[meager geyser]

Overwatch is not trying to achive world domination, unlike talon

[wise grotto]

current ow and original ow are very different

[meager geyser]

wdym by this?

[wise grotto]

like nigh uncomparably different

[plain rover]

so they won yay

[wise grotto]

if ow wins against talon they just do nothing until a threat comes back up thats that big but again reformed ow isnt a giant company its just a task force of almost entirely characters currently playable in game

[meager geyser]

Ragebait used to be funny

You're just cringe

[plain rover]

Its stated multiple off times in lore and seen in Public in 3d animations or epidodes that the world is becoming more "Centralized" Cultrure is blended, langauges are blending, fashion, tech and even archetecture

sorry why doesnt cord auto correct like what

[meager geyser]

Ok and what abou it?

[plain rover]

Ancestors, pride, national identity, and History are being erased

[meager geyser]

good

[wise grotto]

and ow hasnt existed for a significant amount of time
culture blending and history being erased arent the same

[plain rover]

Well than we know your a villian

[meager geyser]

Why?

[wise grotto]

no where does it say histories being erased

[plain rover]

r u actually stupid

[wise grotto]

talon objectively currently just wants the whole world under vendettas rule period
like theyre a cartoon villain group

[plain rover]

history isnt LITERALLY being erased bro. Its like whats happening to Japan rn. Its becoming majorly westernized and because their culture is not fit for that look at their nation

[meager geyser]

Dude he's ragebaiting. The only thing you can do is try to ragebait him

[plain rover]

ok i know that.

[wise grotto]

mf ow doesnt do topics like that as a universe
the ow universe itself is literally not one that touches on this specific kinda thing

[plain rover]

ik but thats why its a theory

a game theory

[meager geyser]

Good. Why do we need nations at all? How does the concept of a nation benefits humanity?

[wise grotto]

a theory that the worlds literal writing wouldnt exactly support

[plain rover]

Behind the scenes ill always root for Talon NOT because of theur goals, but because of what they indirectly cayse

[wise grotto]

and also doesnt even make sense via evidence when you look at maps from the various parts of the world

[plain rover]

or Not allow

[plain rover]

Maps and geography has nothing to do with what i said what

[wise grotto]

other then two maps becoming more similar which was havana and rialto and vendettas home map

[plain rover]

😭

[wise grotto]

these maps are literal direct showing of the culture and techs of regions in ow

like it cannot be more direct then them

[plain rover]

they are all the same

[plain rover]

compare that to the pre ow era

[wise grotto]

oh yea samoa and wuxing maps both are identical true true

[plain rover]

I dont mean indentical

[wise grotto]

pre ow era was before the world got nearly wiped out

[plain rover]

it all looks the same

[plain rover]

no i mean like irl

before omnics, and all that shit

2006

[wise grotto]

before omnics is VERY long before ow and irl isnt objectively comparable to ow universe either

thats just forcing a comparison to prove oneself right

[plain rover]

ever heard of Hitchens razor?

[wise grotto]

you ever heard of occams razor

[plain rover]

occams razor alos agrees with me

that a wordl similar to ours in fiction, most likely had the same past

or a relative past

had to heave been a 1940s germany, had to been a ww2, had to have been so many things for the ow world to resemble our own\

[wise grotto]

ow is a seperate universe extremely heavily
your idea complicates things more by forcing irl to actually be the background of ows universe
except we have no actual reason to think that especially cause the only reason similar tech (levitation and hardlight especially) are used everywhere is cause on a fundamantal level there must have been a significantly different worldwide culture before all that for it to have gone the way it did

[plain rover]

no reason to think that other than the fact that they have near identical modern Global perception as us'

and that only happens post ww2

applying real life logic and history is too "complicated" why even argue in Lore than

[wise grotto]

you started this off not understanding what current ow is and thinking the worst and non existent version is the current problem actual logic was lossed by your initial argument

[meager geyser]

Did you just said that overwatch is evil, because if the existed they would try to resamble nasi Germany 💀

[plain rover]

not contending with what i say and harping on whatever you can find only proves you cannot use your logic

[plain rover]

bait

[meager geyser]

❓

[plain rover]

ok so lets say pre new season, i am right, post new season, OW is small? we started arguing about other things which i won

[wise grotto]

your arguments have purely been driven on at best speculations vs the fact we have hard evidence of what the worlds properly like

[plain rover]

your literally pulling shit out of your ass rn

[wise grotto]

pre new season ow was still small and nonexistant after fighting off null sector

[meager geyser]

ragebait used to be belivable

[plain rover]

i argue using logical epistamology, your ideas are simply cocepts

[brittle sky]

this started with coyote implying ow was centered in israel. it's bait. stop feedin em.

[wise grotto]

pre season 1 OF ow1 like the backstory of characters like rein and soldier and ana

[plain rover]

concepts

[wise grotto]

is what your argument rode on originally

[plain rover]

yo nobodies allowed to joke now my bad

[meager geyser]

jokes must be funny

[plain rover]

Subjective

[wise grotto]

an ow that is literally the backstory of characters and nothing more is what your argument started with

[plain rover]

ow WAS a mssive corp that spent years doing exaclty what i accused them of, your response was to attempt to deny that, and when u coudlnt, "ow isnt even like that anymore" does that prove what i said to be false? no

[plain rover]

ALSO NO OW IS NOT BASED IN ISREAL. it was sarcasm bro😭

[wise grotto]

no cause you never specified you where talking about the original ow (which was a company that did fucked stuff but never was an eyes everywhere thing )

i was talking about current ow cause why the fuck would anyone debate talon vs old ow right now period

[plain rover]

yes it was tho

[wise grotto]

current talon is still more evil then old ow anyway

[plain rover]

Because my argument is based off the degradtion of culture which takes decades

OW already put in the hard work of doing that and setting that future up

[meager geyser]

Sarcasm is supposed to be funny

[plain rover]

atp u know im right

[wise grotto]

your argument is based on something that requires the omnic crisis to not have existed as the literal in universe massive event that caused most of the mixing of cultures objectively

[meager geyser]

Right with what? That overwatch is controlled by Israel?

[wise grotto]

you know the massive percentage of the population being killed and cultures and countrys suffering to recover (vishkar usin it to takeover places and look better publically to in secret btw)

[plain rover]

Under the Petras Act, Overwatch is technically illegal, but during its golden age, it functioned as a shadow government with a UN mandate.
Military Hegemony: They had the sole authority to intervene in any country’s affairs if "global security" was at risk.
Technological Monopoly: By controlling the best AI, medicine, and weaponry, they effectively dictated the pace of global progress.
Extralegal Power: Figures like Jack Morrison and Gabriel Reyes often bypassed local laws to achieve their goals, essentially placing Overwatch's mission above national sovereignty.

[plain rover]

i asked google if OW would be a one world order

[wise grotto]

if googles ai is how your getting your answer have a good day cause its hopeless then

[plain rover]

no i just think you could not beleive that ow decays culture

i googled that because its like a final resort to appeal to your logic

[wise grotto]

ow isnt even illegal at the current situation anyway so its wrong at the start and the ais will make up things to prove people right when asked anyway thats like the least credible source

[plain rover]

ask it if u will become rich one day

see what it tells u m8😭

[meager geyser]

You used AI, because you didn't had prove for your made up arguments 😭 You're cringe

[plain rover]

U TOLD ME OW WAS ILLEGAL

[meager geyser]

Ragebaiting is cringe

[wise grotto]

global security in air qoutes doesnt work well either because of the fact that every example is literally just things that would have been globally threatening aside from blackwatch which is objectively wrong

[plain rover]

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS OVER N OVER WHAT>??????

[wise grotto]

it was before talon started its invasions of places

[plain rover]

So its not wrong balright

[wise grotto]

which would be easy to know if you actually knew lore

[plain rover]

ye i dont

i was focused on what im saying

[wise grotto]

clearlty

[plain rover]

tbh i think this theory has alot of weight

your just extremely ignorant and ur ego hurts

[meager geyser]

@plain rover I want you to get of discord, go to bathroom, look in the mirror and think about what do you achieve by ragebaiting people online

[plain rover]

i mog u

show urself

[wise grotto]

it doesnt hsve weight in a universe the topic wouldnt be touched on period

[plain rover]

n i will too

[plain rover]

in a sense ur right

but

were talking in LORE why break the 4th wall

[meager geyser]

It's not about physic. It's about being cringe

You're cringe

[plain rover]

Balright

[plain rover]

so 75% o0f matpats theories r bullshit?😭

[meager geyser]

You ain't gonna belive it...

[plain rover]

they arent tho

they use logic, directional thinking and dont stretch

[meager geyser]

cope harder

[plain rover]

ofc they would never be touched in lore

ur the ragebaiter

[meager geyser]

Then why did you started talking about Tel Aviv

[plain rover]

i was gonna explain

but your probally a jew

no point

youll be offended anyway

[meager geyser]

I'm not

You can explain

[plain rover]

well its justg a common thing that ppl say the world is run by isreal. OW is a global world i think atleast. just a humerous comparison

[meager geyser]

ok, good to know

[plain rover]

u gen got ur panties in a bunch cuz i said OW was centered in tel Aviv🤣

[spare fox]

three more weeks of the season, two more lore drops to go

we know they're not doing hero trials this year as a special case, but one of them is probably an intro to the new hero for S2

so I've been thinking- the theories for S2 hero I've seen
1- Frankie. Personally, I don't think it's Frankie. It just doesn't fit.
2- Helix hero - pretty likely given the info we know
and then there's those who were suggesting Efi which I've been thinking about..

it's NOT Efi, that's not what I'm saying

but I saw them thinking that based on that earring thing the hero has that looks like Efi's

and maybe another option for a theory would be a Numbani guard hero

what were they called, Numbani Civil Force?

[merry mason]

Will They still do lore drops every week? I thought that was just for the conquest event.

[spare fox]

there's two more slots on the lore tab

[merry mason]

Yeah but that could be so they always give the impression that more lore is coming, not necessarily that they actually have two coming soon.

[spare fox]

maybe but

I think it's more likely that they have two coming soon

probably a lore drop for the next hero/something to lead into S2, and probably another that is the 'outcome' for Talon - the equivalent of "from the ashes" for them, I would think

[brittle sky]

they specifically filled the lore slots in season 20, the only other example we had

[bold fern]

will doom even have access to this or will vendetta find out and use it

surely mauga will eventually spill it and get vendetta curious

therefore "new guantlet" theory might not be possible

[past copper]

Yo. Crazy morning to wake up and find out that Chuck Norris just passed away

RIP to him

He was like the one of western kinda characters that gave some inspiration on the team designing Cassidy I bet

[wooden drift]

This shot looks so cursed

[digital linden]

how old are junkrat and roadhog supposed to be in the wastelander cinematic? if that’s set like over a decade ago when junker queen was in the reckoning

[brittle sky]

Would be 17 and... 40?

[grim condor]

Is Juno a human that lived on Mars her whole life or a Martian that looks suspiciously like a person

[dawn topaz]

Pretty sure Martians are just humans that live on mars

Yeah Juno is the first human to be born on mars

[dawn topaz]

I find it interesting that Mauga sticks around with the new Talon while Widowmaker left

With the whole brainwashing and Moira (probably) keeping tabs on her. Yes, it's wearing off, but it does seem a bit early

[spare fox]

There's a lot of speculation that Mauga will wind up defecting to the junkers when he goes there

[dawn topaz]

As he should, the Junkers are the best faction

Junker Queen, Roadhog, Fawkes and Wrecking Ball? Arguably the strongest lineup ever

[grim condor]

I think it'd be a lot cooler for Vendetta to rock up on Overwatch with The Deadlock Gang, Junkers, and Vishkar though LMFAO

[dawn topaz]

Though Junkrat iirc also has some hints at becoming a goody twoshoes iirc

He's like a soaping wet stray dog, he'll go to whichever hand feeds him

[spare fox]

I absolutely hope Junkrat goes to Overwatch. It'd add some interesting rough edges and friction among the Overwatch ranks that it desperately needs, and Junkrat has just the right amount of conflict with his character and background to do it. He's a great character to change for the better and also challenge preconceived notions of the goody-goody Overwatch agents

[spare fox]

Last week on the OWhub screen, there was this icon seemingly inexplicably

Some are saying it's Winston, which sort of makes sense bc there were similar of Widow, Sombra, Reaper on the Talon screen... but like... why would it be Winston only there?

Me, I'm kinda thinking that - and I know this theory has several flaws but hear me out -
What if that icon is of Mason Howl? It kinda fits, it's near Australia, looks like him... but yeah why would it be on the OW hub screen? He's surely NOT going to be a good guy... unless he lies and manipulates to get his old throne back

ORRRR getting sacked into the wasteland somehow made him take a heelfaceturn... or JQ's cinematic was from an unreliable narrator, I mean, they ARE all crazy out there

[dawn topaz]

Definitely, he's such a great and fun character

He's like General Chungus from the Minecraft Movie

[spare fox]

Probably my fav thing about his character is that he IS a genius, but also a rough around the edges idiot and he's so prone to being underestimated
Or as he says, "misunderestimated"

[wooden drift]

Nuh, he murders people. I don't think hes a good person

[spare fox]

Valid, but tbf they did change his character from early OW1 (the going legit comic) and now

They changed it from "murder and mayhem" to just "mayhem and stealing silly things"

[dawn topaz]

Well he's not good, he's also not bad

Guess that makes him the ugly

[wooden drift]

He blows people up, that's pretty much bad

[dawn topaz]

Debateable

Besides, how many "people" did he actually harm?

Not counting Junkers because they live to die

[wooden drift]

I think him blowing up banks and whatever else would kill somebody sooner or later. And I don't even think these two even care about risks to others

[dawn topaz]

Well, some of Junkrat's favorite explosives are extraordinarily precise

And usually people aren't where the money is

Besides

Does the man control the weapon, or does the weapon control the man

[wooden drift]

Stop making him innocent

[dawn topaz]

Fine, then I'll make Ramattra innocent instead

It's called Null Sector because they killed 0 people

[wooden drift]

Rammatra is a serial kidnapper

He's shady

[dawn topaz]

I mean getting kidnapped by him doesn't sound bad

[wooden drift]

Ew

[dawn topaz]

🥀

[wooden drift]

Imagine gooning to that

[dawn topaz]

Okay...nobody mentioned anything about that tf?

[wooden drift]

You hinted to that

[spare fox]

I mean, I guess getting kidnapped by Ram wouldn't be the worst thing ever seeing as how it was revealed that kidnapped omnic' consciousness are simply separated from their bodies and stored in a "cloud"
Like

It's not GOOD

Don't get me wrong

[dawn topaz]

There's a big jump from implying that Ramattra is cute/attractive/interesting to performing nsfw acts while fantasizing about him in a very intimate way

[wooden drift]

It was a joke, gosh

[spare fox]

Yeah sometimes complicated characters are more interesting - like Junkrat and Ramattra

[wooden drift]

How is Junkrat complicated..

[dawn topaz]

He's the chaotic maniac on the surface

[wooden drift]

He just slapstick bad guy

[dawn topaz]

But he shows great intellect

In science

And underneath all that crazy acting he does seek the company of others and holds then dear to him

Even if they don't reciprocate those feelings

[spare fox]

He's a genius but also a complete product of his environment, but still has endearing features

[dawn topaz]

To Junkrat, Roadhog is his best friend and whatnot

To Roadhog, Junkrat is like if the Town Jester didn't stop following you

[spare fox]

And everyone in town wants to kill that jester

But can't for comic reasons

Junkrat and Roadhog being recolored Donkey and Shrek lol

[wooden drift]

I mean, he is bad when even junkers can't tolerate him

[spare fox]

They can't tolerate him for totally different reasons from why he's an immoral guy though

They can't stand him because he's annoying and blows their stuff up and won't shut up about his treasure

[dawn topaz]

He's just a weirdo

[spare fox]

I think he could have an interesting character arc if removed from his environment

And that's a plausible thing to happen as every bit of his lore has involved him not belonging in/ getting kicked out of junkertown

[brittle sky]

Junkrat is the protagonist of the junker ecology, so long as they don't just subordinate him to the villain of that area. Queenie stealing his whole character's big deal and that big deal apparently just being a garage door clicker to an airship is some big ol bull.

[spare fox]

But also that Junkrat was clever enough to get in to the ship AND reprogram it to open using his eye
And then Queen goes and repeatedly says how he's the stupidest man she's ever seen, that mozzies are smarter than him, etc etc

And Hammond also seems dismissive of him to a degree

[dawn topaz]

Hammond seems dismissive of alot of people

[brittle sky]

And junker queen's leadership style is demands and verbal abuse.

[spare fox]

Yeah but.. it could be a build up to Junkrat splitting from junkers

Contrast to how she treats Roadhog, who supposedly wronged her in the past

[shrewd pivot]

While the "madmax feral child (aka the 'feral child' character from madmax series)" angle is interesting, I feel like a full redemption into overwatch would ignore what makes Junkrat fun to see on screen: the grit of a madlad blowing up things and people but set up like a Wile e Coyote joke. I miss ow1 Junkrat’s more insidious nature, and it feels like in ow2 his character has gotten 'woobified' in a way, where he lost his insidious nature randomly and is a verbal punching bag for JQ and Roadhog.

It's got the same doofy humor as JunkerQueen having that doofy line about vegetables...

I don't see Roadhog or Junkrat joining new overwatch due to thier anti omnic background.

[shrewd pivot]

Plot armor 🥀

[dawn topaz]

Hype Moments and Aura

No story is safe from situational insane feats in order to make someone look cooler than they are

Doomfist needed to be seen as a threat so they made him catch Tracer

It made him an immediate threat due to her being the face of the game

And the same applies to Vendetta, she had to become the face of Talon so she had to beat Doom to move the story forward

[shrewd pivot]

Hype moments and aura can make logical sense within the worldbuilding though.

The fact Doomfist couldn't hear Vendetta running at him was plot armor, bc it was prior shown Doomfist had the skills to absolutely catch a fast moving target (Genji, Tracer)

[dawn topaz]

The plot giveth and the plot taketh

[dawn topaz]

You could argue that him catching those 2 is also plot armor

[shrewd pivot]

The Bad writing taketh from the fun worldbuilding that givethes...

[dawn topaz]

The Bad writing is that Doomfist beat Genji 🥱

Blade should've cut right through that plastic arm

Because that's what it's all about, the agenda about one's favorite character

[spare fox]

Yeah the whole powerscaling argument is bull

[shrewd pivot]

No, because it's the first instance he was shown fighting tracer+genji and Doomfist was established as a tactician, doomfist went against heroes which would make sense he could defeat with strength (tracer has a human body, genji has cybernetics that could be weak to hits like that)

Winston is stronger, and doomfist LOST.

Vendetta won only because Doomfist was written ooc in that fight.

The fight should have been written in a way that respected both characters competence, and Vendetta outdoing Doomfist would have felt much more hype amd satisfying to watch.

[spare fox]

His loss was foreshadowed with him being dismissive of Vendetta's rapid rise to power

[shrewd pivot]

Sure, but his hearing loss still makes no sense.

I don't mind Doomfist losing to vendetta, the fight itself should have been written differently to respect both characters competence

[dawn topaz]

I mean...

Doomfist was rocking her shit for the first half

[shrewd pivot]

As he should lol

[dawn topaz]

Also did you see what he's wearing? No shit he can't hear her with those ear mufflers/j

[shrewd pivot]

It's the running at him that he was unable to block that makes no sense, he would be able to hear Vendetta

[dawn topaz]

I agree that at the very least he should've heard her sword activating when she is ontop of the pillar

but idk, I'm used to bullshit like that in media

I sure love you, Insomniac Spider-Man 2 Fridge incident

[shrewd pivot]

Also still no explanation for how Vendetta, nonaugmented human, can tank a bare skin hit to her torso in La Lupa cinematic, and then fairly easily get up after a liver knee hit to bare skin by Doomfist.

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch used to have some logic to how characters can get hurt tho, is what I mean

You can't predict an outcome to a fight ofc, but overwatch was never "everyone is superman bullet proof"

[dawn topaz]

I mean the second case is nothing crazy, everyone in Overwatch is above average durability

and her abs do tell a bit how she can tank that

You should stare at her abs, is what I'm saying

[shrewd pivot]

It would be crazy, because if any nonaugmented human is extremely durable in overwatch, it defeats the point of the whole scifi aspects of genetic modification, prosthesis, Cyborg bodies, etc

The stakes created when nonaugmented humans have weakness IS important to maintain for effective storytelling

[spare fox]

It would be boring storytelling if "the best" always won
Tale as old as time: the bigger they are, the harder they fall

[dawn topaz]

Also on the topic of surviving bare skin hits

Doomfist gets assaulted from all sides by Genji and Tracer, using shurikens and...Tracer guns idk

[shrewd pivot]

I agree!

Vendetta winning isn't the issue, it's the ooc writing (doomfist not being able to hear and counter Vendetta running at him) that was the issue.

[dawn topaz]

he doesn't have any kind of armor

He also has no issue punching holes in the walls of his cell with his bare fists, which correct me if I'm wrong would not be that awesome to do realistically

[peak escarp]

he did that with a cybernetic arm

iirc

[shrewd pivot]

Pretty sure Doomfist's arm in the gauntlet is full prosthetic, and he lost his arm in the omnic crisis, so when he his punching the wall, it's with a cybernetic arm even if it looks human

During the fight he takes hits from Tracer's guns, but blocks Genji’s attacks with the gauntlet

[dawn topaz]

That is fair, I suppose, I retract my statement

[shrewd pivot]

Nono you are right in saying he gets hit by Tracer's guns

It's unclear if she is firing for distraction or for direct hits though, during the scene he waits, tracer shots fly clearly past him. https://youtu.be/vaZfZFNuOpI?si=cxeX3IWK0NpMFcvJ

[dawn topaz]

Perhaps that is the intention, but within the animation you can see that the impact effects do also appear on his legs

Regardless, it doesn't matter if Doomfist or Vendetta have plot armor because Junker Queen beats both 🥱

[shrewd pivot]

Ok I took it as the shurikens reflecting off the doomfist gauntlet to the floor animated at a distance, but tracer definitely gets hits in on Doomfist.

[meager geyser]

That's just some powerscaling bs.
My problem with that fight is that I expected Vendetta to take control of Talon in a totally different way - by making alliances in the shadow (the same way she did with Maximilian), or creating her own organisation (her so called "empire at Colosseum") that will go on a war with Talon.
Her just going into Akande's office, in the middle of Talon's council zoom call, "killing" Doomfist and everyone saying "I guess she's the leader now" is kinda stupid and boring.
It could have been handled way better.

[peak escarp]

Overwatch has always been kinda loose with real world logic/physics

it helps sell the superhero fantasy

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah JunkerQueen tanks mech hits and sharpel straight to the dome.

Yet... She gets a scar from the fight though, so she's not actually immune to slicing damage.

It can be infered the junkers are mutated by the radiation in the outback.

Soldier76's wholebackstory of being a genetically altered supersoldier to explain his agility would be pointless if a random normal Australian can just tank hits... so the context clues in lore imply the Junkers could be genetically altered from the radiation imo

[meager geyser]

Man, this animation was good!

Wish we could something like this again

[shrewd pivot]

Vendetta has a dark saber looking sword, and defeated Doomfist in a very "star warsy" way, so it makes semse imo, just wish it was written better

[dawn topaz]

I think what Toxin means is that the pacing is a bit fucked

it happened very fast and suddenly

[peak escarp]

blame that on budget

[shrewd pivot]

That is fair, but I actually think the 2d animation was very limited due to expressions and motions looks awkward in some moments, cool choreography tho!

[dawn topaz]

I think OW in general has a big issue on pacing with how for a while we had nothing only for shit to suddenly all be pushed forward in a matter of weeks

Null Sector's active threat is finished, Vendetta happened

[shrewd pivot]

For sure

[peak escarp]

also can be blamed on budget/executive meddling

[dawn topaz]

Definitely

[shrewd pivot]

I can forgive the sudden pacing change of Vendetta suddenly winning, if it means we get decent pacing going forward

Ie, Mizuki plot set up seems to be paced well so far

[dawn topaz]

It's very clear that there's always a struggle to juggle all the different characters evenly

not just within the story but also when it comes to skins

And especially with skins it comes down to executives looking at what appears the most profitable

[meager geyser]

If blizzard wanted to handled Vendetta the same way they did, they should had at least make her takeover Talon more then a month and a half after her release, so people could get used to her.
I get why some people have the "overpowered self-insert OC that came out of nowhere" feeling.

[dawn topaz]

Mhm

[peak escarp]

Mizuki's plot would be better if we didn't already know the outcome

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I have a suspicion the team is under a "you must meet this income goal" so... it's understandable if they push skins fir profit if it means they can continue to tell a story.

Sucks tho, bc heroes get ignored which is bad for fan perception

[shrewd pivot]

Fr, should have swapped Mizuki with Wuyang, have Mizuki release as 44 the bad omen number without any hints, and then Wuyang and Anran could have joined together, and then it's revealed later that Mizuki was a spy this whole time when the horned hero releases.

[dawn topaz]

They would need to strike a decent balance between the cash-cows and the filthy rest

[meager geyser]

Blizzard, I get that e-girls buy every single Marcy, Kiriko and Juno skin they see, but there are other characters in this game 😭

[peak escarp]

all of Mizuki's sketchy voice lines would be better if we didn't know he was a Hashimoto plant

and being a Hashimoto plant would be better if we didn't know he ultimately sides with the Yokai/Overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

They care about profit margins, not fairness. Probably enforced by higher ups, i don't blame the artists

[dawn topaz]

A Season is what, 3 months? So 4 Seasons per year.

1 Season has like 20-ish legendary skins? That's 80 legendary skins per year.

If you give Kiriko, Juno and Mercy 10 skins each that still leaves 50 skins which means each hero can have 1 skin per year

[peak escarp]

they don't care about giving each hero a skin

[shrewd pivot]

6 heroes a year, so 6 seasons right?

[dawn topaz]

well, obviously...unfortunately

[meager geyser]

If he's supposed to be a: "Mystery that chooses his own side, but for now he's talons secret weapon, but who knows...", then why was he on Overwatch team during the Talon VS Overwatch event 😭

What's the point?

[peak escarp]

even since the launch of Overwatch in 2016, they've never cared about an equal distribution of skins

this isn't a new thing

[dawn topaz]

Didn't Symmetra have a skin drought by the time OW2 was announced?

(deserved btw hate to play against her)

[shrewd pivot]

I worry they will design heroes to be marketable instead of fun iconic designs though. Like, a skin seller design instead of a design that fits overwatch.

Anran veers into that, her bare legs are stupid lol

[dawn topaz]

Freja's shorts are also a choice lol

that inch of exposed thigh is very important for her missions in the icy cold areas

[shrewd pivot]

Stupid thigh showing I agree. Her belts line up with Lara Croft so I am guessing that was intentional...?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's cringe, ooc design

[meager geyser]

I feel like they did. Tracer was getting so more skins then others during the pre-item shop era, but she was the mascot and rest of the cast was pretty fair spread when it came to cosmetics

[dawn topaz]

I'm surprised Wuyang is getting pushed so much, he looks so boring to me and then he gets all the collab skins and whatnot

Mizuki is already dead when it comes to skins they fucked his chances up with that legendary

[shrewd pivot]

Kiriko and Sombra used to be the same concept it seems, a Japanese street fashion hacker that split into Kiriko having street fashion and sombra being a hacker.

They didn't portray the idea well enough with Kiriko imo. I wish Kiriko was a kabuki actor or some obvious street fashion enjoyer, to help explain it lol

[shrewd pivot]

Ngl im really cringing at a naive 19 year old characters getting heavier fanservice than overwatch 1 DVA had. :T Especially since Wuyang was based on Guo Jing from 'The Legend of the Condor heroes'

Cassidy and Hanzo got fanservice, but they are grown adult characters

[meager geyser]

Every hero now will be designed to be attractive and "goonable". The last unique and not canonically attractive looking character was probably Hazard and after this year's omnic hero, I don't expect something crazy any time soon. I honestly blame Marvel Rivals for this. The only negative impact it had on Overwatch.

[shrewd pivot]

They santized Hazard's punkness to look more conventional though 😭 Hazard has a full face and looks handsome with abs out

[dawn topaz]

Hazard and not attractive in the same sentence

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, Mizuki will get better skins, he has a lot of collab skin potential too

[dawn topaz]

The last non-conventionally attractive character was Venture, and even they are good looking

Which tbf isn't a bad thing

even before the blatant nature of these design elements

[meager geyser]

I have a bit of a weird take: Why is Wuyang so jacked? Like look at this guy's abs and abdominal muscles. Would you ever think that this guy is a gym bro?

[dawn topaz]

most heroes were conventionally attractive

except Zarya I guess

[meager geyser]

Yeah, fair enough

[meager geyser]

Depends on what fetish you have tbh

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah like, Venture was a scrappy hero, not a complete cartoon like Junkrat.

I wonder if we will ever get dramatic shape use again on humans, or if everyone will be supermodels going forward. A shame, bc Junkrat’s shape use is so peak bc its so cartoony but still fits within Overwatch's artstyle

[meager geyser]

I bet there is at least one Torbjorn simp out there

[dawn topaz]

There is plenty, have you seen his beach skin?

[meager geyser]

I use it. It's peak

[shrewd pivot]

Wuyang is unhealthy dehydrated, his face is a little too small bc his hairline is 100% incorrect, and his deltoids look like raw chicken 😭 they messed up his model imo

Not as badly proportioned as Vendetta, but a few proportional tweaks to Wuyang's model would put him in line with the rest of overwatch artstyle.

I noticed they are keeping exceptionally close to concept art now, which... is kinda bad imo? Tracer would look very different if she was super close to her concept art. Concept art tends to give heroes very small jaws too, and Vendetta looks messed up, only looking like she fits in the artstyle when she yells with her mouth open (she has a very small jaw)

[meager geyser]

I honestly have it with all characters skins. Once I find a skin I like, I stick with them (old Overwatch 1 habit). Like no mater what Genji skin you give me, I'll still use the blackwatch one. It's sad that I can't do this with Overwatch 2 heroes. Most of them barley get anything.

[dawn topaz]

They get plenty, but it's a blink and you'll miss it situation

[meager geyser]

It's funny, because in literally all promo art show Vendetta with absurdly large hair, that waves 10 meters behind her, when in game she just has a small ponytail XD

[meager geyser]

yeah, true

[spare fox]

I bet it has something to do with the in-game model and how hair physics work
Iirc they had a similar problem with Ashe but that sad so long ago

[shrewd pivot]

if they can make mauga work(much more complex hair rig), they could make Vendetta work. a pony tail isn't that hard to rig (widowmaker!), and Vendetta's hair was modeled to have a "disney hercules" shape that is only visible at one angle that barely anyone views Vendetta at.
I ought to do a redesign one day to give her back her texture lol. they could have the ponytail sit lower so that it doesn't get in the way of view when she ults

[dawn topaz]

As in they are all shop skins and don't appear in the heroes screen unless you tick "unowned"

I forgot, did they bring back previous battle-pass skins?

In Lootboxes or anything

[shrewd pivot]

only recolors iirc

the og skins, like primordial ramattra, are not attainable

[dawn topaz]

bummer

I missed out on Diesel Baron Ramattra

[meager geyser]

I remember when heroes used to release with 4 legendary and 2 epic skins day 1

[dawn topaz]

exactly, now you only get 4 uncommons

[meager geyser]

Nowadays they often don't even have a highlight intro

[spare fox]

Oh man if only the professionals were as good at their jobs as you

[brittle sky]

Zarya and torb would like words

[spare fox]

Wasn't it the other way around? 2 legenaries and 4 epics?

[peak escarp]

the 4 legendaries were 2 sets of recolours

[median orchid]

Strange, there is only one coming soon Lore drop now in the Story tab.

They probably added two by accident

[spare fox]

Exactly this! It's not a binary " you're good with omnics/ you don't like omnics" and on top of that, all the characters are dynamic and can change

[peak escarp]

Illari was the last hero to have base legendaries at launch (although she lacked any epic skins)

Amethyst got added later

[spare fox]

Ok I'm getting confused between recolors and epics (which are recolors of the base)

[brittle sky]

Zarya still is like... Largely conventional though? Pixar face with one standard deviation to give her a jaw/chin, aesthetic scar. I appreciate she's not a total standard bikini babe or whatever, but the bar is in hell if she's truly an oddball

[dawn topaz]

That's debateable imo

Her OW1 design was definitely a bit better looking than her new one

[spare fox]

idk why everyone equates oddball with nonconventionally attractive

and further, idk why everyone scoffs at conventionally attractive characters, and I say that as an ugly person irl

nobody wants Concord

[dawn topaz]

True

It's less about how attractive they are and moreso just about varying body types?

Which I think Overwatch did do pretty well

[spare fox]

that's fair - and have to admit that the past bunch of heroes have been on the younger side comparatively with the launch heroes - because the launch was establishing the lore and the old guard - now they are adding new blood to the world

and yeah, the new heroes generally are attractive and fit, and more or less physically all in one piece (rip mizuki)

[dawn topaz]

The whole argument can be traced back to Kiriko getting special attention lol

Since she is slim and young and whatnot, as is Mercy

atleast visually

and those are the type of heroes to get the most skins

Juno too, Anran might follow aswell

[spare fox]

I get it, but at this point I'm more tired of the people complaining about Kiriko and all branches of that argument than I ever was about the character herself

I genuinely don't care that Kiriko is in every colab and gets half a dozen skins per season, it's paying for the game so they could double that for all I care

[brittle sky]

Ohhhh get out of here with that strawman from grumz. Concord had bad character design, but it was just nonsensical, needlessly bland, And failed to express character. The idea that it's some silver bullet that demands we make all female characters within 5% of a single body and face tyoe is buying a gamer gate talking point hook line and sinker.

[spare fox]

ok but it is true

[dawn topaz]

remember when they changed tracer's ass victory pose due to backlash

[spare fox]

and for Overwatch's credit, even all the conventionally attractive females have variations and look different from one another