lore-discussion

[bold fern]

in normal gamemode

[civic lynx]

I think they have one decently sized team that just does both stadium and core maps

Last year the focus was on getting stadium maps out bc it was a brand new experience, this year and maybe 2027 the focus is making new maps for qp/competitive

[wooden drift]

Hope they'll do good with Tokyo map

Even if gonna be flashpoint

Maybe

[civic lynx]

Based on the 1 concept we have of it I can see it being payload or push

The street in the concept art looks like where a payload or push bot would be moving through

[wooden drift]

I'll be suprised if it's payload

Cuz what the last payload map that was released?

Monastery?

[civic lynx]

Yeah

Buns map btw

[wooden drift]

I like it

Especially loading screen theme

[bold fern]

no more payload maps!

[wooden drift]

Shame that ow music plays for 10 seconds and that it

[bold fern]

rework the bad ones first!!

[wooden drift]

Which ones?

I only hate numbani and paraiso

[civic lynx]

I think like 4 maps are undergoing reworks this year

[wooden drift]

antarctic peninsula didn't needed rework

[civic lynx]

I can’t find the ss but they said at Spotlight they plan to have a new map (which there’s only 2 of) or map reworks every season this year

[wooden drift]

The map was fine

[bold fern]

all

[civic lynx]

So S3 and s5 or 6 are new maps, the other seasons are reworks

[bold fern]

maybe payload is just dogshit

kdk

idk

horrible gamemode

[civic lynx]

I hated that map 😭

[wooden drift]

Whyyy

[civic lynx]

Just wasn’t enjoyable in any section

I hope the rework at least makes 1 or 2 of the points fun

[wooden drift]

If they can make thst map better, I guess it's fine. But it was one of the least bad maps in the game

Just feels like waste of resources

[civic lynx]

I think they’re choosing what to rework based on the vote rate

If a map is hated by the community and barely voted for they see it as a map that’s in need of change to be more in line with the others

[wooden drift]

Well now I'm interested what psychopath votes for numbani

[civic lynx]

Same

I need that map reworked or deleted

[wooden drift]

They did reworked it once

[civic lynx]

And it was good but not enough

[wooden drift]

Maybe they hesitant with reworking it cuz it's one of the og maps

And man, I want Paris map to be reworked into different gamemode. It's criminal that it stuck in 2CP

[wise grotto]

Too many people pick escort and hybrid for some dogshit map like paraiso to get reworked even if they should

[shrewd pivot]

They better not do ZZZ collab :/

I think the batman collab might be fun, Freja as batgirl is perfect lol

MGS Raiden Genji would be peak.

No idea what the Futurama collab would be lol (Tracer Fry? LOL?) but Zenyatta saying "bite my shiny metal--" would be hilarious

[wooden drift]

If they do any gacha game collab that would just suck

[wise grotto]

Why would they better not do that there’s a lot of sick characters for that collab

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. But it's specifically ZZZ who hired a gross lead artist that draws child characters in nsfw inappropriate ways, and specifically Hoyoverse because thier game Gun Girls Z ||used unironically child looking child characters dressed in child clothing, in fully inappropriate poses to sell as "fanservice" during a banner. Aka they profited off that. It's revolting.||

Overwatch should not touch Hoyoverse collabs at all imo, nor any company/series that profits off of ||l-licon||

And i just know Ramattra would get Banyue in that ZZZ collab :/ please don't overwatch....

[wooden drift]

Wait, really? I thought it was just a meme

[shrewd pivot]

It's real. :( I won't name names here because I don't want youth searching that crap up, but for anyone 21+ I can provide information in dms. It's a very disturbing thing, I recommend people not to financially support Hoyoverse.

And yeah, I seriously hope overwatch doesn't collab with specifically ZZZ out of the other three options of Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail... because ZZZ is the worst one in that regard. Pardon the heavy topic, I just feel it's important to be informed so people can make informed financial decisions when playing games.

On... a lighter note. I can talk about other collabs ig.

I think... it's safe to say Domina would fit a Disney Villains Cruela if that collab happens

I also think Jujitsu Kaisen is an obvious Mizuki pick with the bad luck thing

I think Widowmaker's mythic was thier touch upon the topic ngl.

Best to leave that series alone too.

I would be suprised if star wars agreed to collab considering the copyright issue with starwatch Overwatch had, but Vendetta is an obvious bo-katan + dark saber, or sith character. Wuyang could be Darth Maul. Juno as Princess Leia maybe? Soldier76 trooper probably, Sigma has to be in there but idk if he would be Vader, Cad Bane Cassidy, and Ramattra as Grievous if they were feeling extra fun. JPC... baby Yoda? 😂 idk

[shrewd pivot]

IF they made a base model map, it might need a proper rework because in the Stadium Wuxing university map: the 2d map image shows 5 element colleges, but the 3d map itself only has 4 element colleges...?

I... have the feeling they used a DnD "Monk: Warrior of the Elements" class as inspo for Anran and Wuyang (Ramattra is just a scifi take on DnD "Monk: astral body" class) and then later realized.... Oops DnD uses Avatar the last Airbender style 4 Greek humors elements, and Chinese Wuxing and Wuxia uses 5 elements lol

[shrewd pivot]

I'm still kinda sad that they didn't get into a very fun situation of:

Vendetta as the Italian character playing off the Wuxia-inspired space OPERA star wars, a villain dedicated to a "fate is set" defined by bloodline

Wuyang as an ink based core-Wuxia hero "writing his own destiny" (seriously, the fact his staff looks like an ink pen and it's not even included in his story???) as the idea that your heroic actions can "change fate" and that Wuyang is not defined by his bloodline.

That Overwatch would represent hopeful Wuyang "rewriting destiny", and Vendetta's Talon as pessimistic "fate is set in stone" .... that would have been a fantastic set up fr... and tied very well into the other heroes introduced

[ocean pilot]

I just discovered there is an album from the band "The Police" named "Zenyatta Mondatta"

[shrewd pivot]

Yep! It's a funny easter egg.

In canon, that seems to be what Mondatta was named after, as it's a nonsense word otherwise.

Presumably, Zenyatta named himself after meeting Mondatta to complete the joke lol

[ocean pilot]

The more you know

Imagine if Ramattra was named after a song too

[shrewd pivot]

Cassidy was renamed so that it's Ashe and Cole (Ash and Coal) lol

[shrewd pivot]

"Ramattra" seems to be a RAM joke, but there's some possible interpretations too:

[ocean pilot]

I know there is a RAM joke in one of his interactions too

I just dont know with who

[shrewd pivot]

Sombra makes the joke

[ocean pilot]

That makes sense actually

[shrewd pivot]

Based on Ramattra's response, it doesn't seem Ramattra named himself after RAM in canon lol, so it might be the word bases of "preserver devourer" or "dark protector" or "shelter is here", as these terms are used in his ability voice lines.

[ocean pilot]

I mean its not like we call ourselves PreFrontalCortexJoe

[crisp canyon]

We need Rom and Rem like pokemon

Need

[shrewd pivot]

Honestly I am waiting for a Romulus and Remus reference with Vendetta bc at the event they named the opposing teams Romulus amd Remus.

So... some kind of twins motif on Vendetta's side or something

[crisp canyon]

It should be tracer but Kiriko is far more popular than anyone I feel now

[shrewd pivot]

Tracer will always be the poster girl of overwatch in my heart lol

[crisp canyon]

Twin sisters 👯‍♀️ ftw like I said we need that dynamic

[shrewd pivot]

Sojourn has a twin sister, but not roster hero

Ig Sojourn leading as a twin, against Vendetta leading as a she wolf kind of fits 🤔

Maybe in some... Doomfist philosophy POV way, Vendetta is strengthening humanity by causing conflict? Vendetta as the she wolf is nurturing Romulus Sojourn as overwatch's strength? Idk lmafo

[crisp canyon]

So if hero trials are done are they just gonna wait until season launch day to reveal the new hero or just before do you think

[shrewd pivot]

A playtest will not happen, but maybe mid season might have hints at new heroes?

Or they will just do an upcoming heroes silhouette reveal every year

[crisp canyon]

Cause I kinda miss the random reveals we used to get compared to knowing who they are a month in advance

[shrewd pivot]

I like fun foreshadowing rather than completely out of the blue, but I do agree fun reveals are good rather than knowing who exactly it will be

[civic lynx]

Season launch trailers usually come out like I think between 3 days-a week before the season launches I think that’s when they’ll reveal new heroes going forward

If they add more lore drops post mid season I’d assume they’ll begin setting up the storyline for the upcoming season and include small teasers of the new hero’s role and what their plan is once they’re added

[shrewd pivot]

I do wonder what the schedule will be for next season, because the only reason we have weekly lore drops is bc there are 5 new heroes.

This Tuesday should be Anran lore video, the last new hero

[civic lynx]

Maybe a new drop once or twice a month?

[shrewd pivot]

Additionally for next year, I personally think 6 heroes a year going forward is too much. 4 would have been fine, an off season to let players learn how to play a hero is important.

[civic lynx]

hero origin story sometime soon after the season begins and then 2 drops of new lore for the plot of the season

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's my guess too.

Maybe some extra comics to fill out the yearly arc progress too, 1 hero origin + only 2 lore bites a season seems a bit too slim

I would be suprised if they drop the weekly "vrs" thing they introduced this season, it seems to engage the playerbase. Would be easy to set up a "vrs" faction deal for each season or atleast every new year's first season

[civic lynx]

If S2’s theme is deadlock/talon vs helix they could use that for another event but I’m not entirely sure what the other 2 that we have teasers of could be (hashimoto vs yokai and junkers vs talon or gwishin vs meka??)

[shrewd pivot]

Talon aligned Deadlock vs Overwatch aligned Helix works

Talon aligned Hashimoto vs Overwatch aligned Yōkai(+Hanzo + Genji?) works

And i think the road map showed Junkers (Talon aligned?) vs MEKA(Overwatch aligned)?

Which has me confused why the Junkers are fighting MEKA lol but we shall see

[civic lynx]

I get the feeling S4 may be 2 storylines at the same time hence junkers and meka. Mauga’s storyline where he heads to meet JQ occurs in s4 and at the same time/soon after or before the EMP is detonated to deal with the gwishin and d.mon has some major event that explains her being added (joins OW?)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I have a feeling D.MON will be involved with the specialized EMP drop on gwishin story somehow

I don't know if D.MON would quit MEKA to join overwatch? It could go either way.

But I could see Overwatch making allies with groups, now that Talon has been making allies, would make semse for Overwatch to ally with MEKA squad

[civic lynx]

If the gwishin is permanently disabled by the EMP I think d.mon could either join ow fully or MEKA as an organisation become an ally of ow and are able to assist them if ow is doing anything nearby

[shrewd pivot]

I hope the gwishin aren't just. Killed off unceremoniously.

That would be very bad worldbuilding...

[civic lynx]

I can see them doing it in a cinematic that ends with the tease of the gwishin re-activating while everyone has moved on after thinking the EMP removed the threat permanently

[shrewd pivot]

The whole intrigue about gwishin is that it is an unknown, probably tied to a bigger plot of unknown omniums around the globe. Also, a crysis reference.

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe. I still feel like it would be a bad idea to have MEKA unceremoniously "defeat" gwishin out of the blue just to get them to join overwatch, that would be bad writing imo... there are better ways to implement DVA's squad joining overwatch writing wise.

[civic lynx]

If it survived the EMP it would be back with a vengeance and maybe they could use some inspiration from busan’s concept art for how it would configure itself to destroy the base

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. Ig they could do that. But once the gwishin come back, MEKA squad would have to leave overwatch so it doesn't really solve the issue

Not that your prediction is bad ofc, I honestly see it as a possibility

I just hope overwatch isn't actively scrubbing away omnic-related lore in overwatch 😅 bc omnic lore is a unique identity, it defines overwatch's worldbuilding. Without omnics and robot-scifi, overwatch isn't overwatch.

[civic lynx]

This may just be me doubting the writers talent but I can lowkey see them just having the gwishin return one day out of the blue (to meka, they’d set it up for us viewers beforehand) and blow up the meka base to force them to be unprepared and outmatched against its attack

[shrewd pivot]

I see it tbh. I don't have the greatest expectations for quality of writing per se either (took them way too long to do "show don't tell" writing for Vendetta for example), but i do find the world building very interesting in overwatch

[civic lynx]

If the EMP does work it definitely won’t be permanent even if they claim it is at first

[shrewd pivot]

Depends. It seems the gwishin producing omnium is what is in charge. If the emp takes out the omnium, that would probably kill off the gwishin, unless the omnium prepared for that and made units that could survive and rebuild

Gosh I really hope they don't unironically... unceremoniously solve a decades long problem by somehow locating the impossible-to-locate omnium to EMP bomb it 😭 like dude...

[civic lynx]

I wish they would’ve had the announcement they made the EMP be a more important thing than a wall of text in the spawn 😭

[shrewd pivot]

I saw it as a hint to future plot points, not a full on "haha gwishin are gone forever now :) yay" thing but idk anymore 🥀

[merry mason]

I can’t really see killing the Gwishin being that easy. “We created a weapon that stops the unstoppable constantly adapting monster there’s no way he’ll adapt to this”

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed. Atleast... a good writer that understands lore wouldn't write it that way haha

[civic lynx]

I think it’ll work temporarily, meka/the military and government acts like they just cured cancer and go on a pr campaign stroking their own ego then the gwishin attacks again and does major damage since nobody was prepared

[shrewd pivot]

Feels a bit harsh to do to the civilians imo, DVA doesn't need any more trauma 🥀

[civic lynx]

She doesn’t but it would be an… explosive way of bringing in d.mon

[shrewd pivot]

I def feel like DVA was the one hard focused on always being there to protect. The rest of the MEKA squad seemed to go along with the idol life

[merry mason]

Also from a meta perspective in big IPs known for their many factions I can’t think of a time the business behind the IP choosing to completely get rid of one. They always seem to expand further until it becomes too big for its own good.

[civic lynx]

If the EMP is only a temporary way of stopping the gwishin it could detonate during S3 then s4 begins with the gwishin’s attack

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah but gwishin aren't marketable skin sellers and if Vendetta lore can ignore the cool VR suit real steel Colosseo worldbuilding to make the Colosseo gladiators human WWE wrestlers with less sauce than Junkers then anything is possible! /j

Fr tho I am salty about them making the Colosseo gladiators WWE human wrestlers. What's scifi about that?
Real Steel robot battles would have been sick, been a great scifi media ref, and modern gladiator WWE wrestlers are better done with madmax junkers imo, bc Junkers fits scifi with radiation outback mutant survival stuff

The poster made it clear the gladiators were mechs, probably humans VR controlling the mechs based on the helmet and holo gauntlets + framing of the poster

These two designs are mechs, Zephyrus has two blue dot eyes that are hard to see in this quality pic

Still fun designs imo

[shrewd pivot]

Actually wait Vendetta's comic confirms the designs are human sized

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah these guys (Maximus and Zephyrus) are VR suit users lol

[crisp canyon]

I don’t think they’re doing anything more than 3 after this year

[shrewd pivot]

It was confirmed by devs that going forward, it will be 6 heroes a year.

[crisp canyon]

What

When did they do that

[shrewd pivot]

I think on twt? Or some post i don't recall. I think Emongg (not a dev, but follows factual info about overwatch) mentioned this on his streams.

I am. Just as suprised tbh... 😅

[crisp canyon]

The blog posts they’ve put out made it seem like they only increased it because of anv

[brittle sky]

Alec Dawson said it to Omnic Post

[shrewd pivot]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/4qVVAdlSeg

Also stated in Chinese interviews, one new hero per season going forward

[brittle sky]

while they have not indicated any sign of a start of year blitz like this season in later years, 1/season is their current plan.

[shrewd pivot]

If this is translated correctly, that is.

[hardy temple]

lf txt bored ash

[crisp canyon]

I prefer it stays at 3 but ig 1 a season isn’t so bad

Those in between season can be boredom hell sometimes

[shrewd pivot]

I wouldn't have minded 4 with an off season between.

[crisp canyon]

And it better be a 2-2-2 every year

[shrewd pivot]

It probably won't lol

[crisp canyon]

None of this 5 dps and 1 support bs

[shrewd pivot]

If anything we need more tanks

[crisp canyon]

I want another mutant tank and not whatever tf hazard is something like hog

[wise grotto]

Hogs just a big dude

[shrewd pivot]

Another Junker tank (we have Roadhog, JunkerQueen, Wreckingba) would be boring but maybe a Moira experiment or something

[crisp canyon]

Hog is a mutant

[wise grotto]

Visually not really
There’s nothing that makes him look like that he just looks like a big dude

[crisp canyon]

His face is literally a pig

[shrewd pivot]

It's heavily implied that the radiation impacted Junkers, and they have to use hogdrogen to prevent radiation poisoning.

If Soldier76 can be a mutant super soldier, I think it's safe to guess the Junkers are irradiated and probably mutants which explains thier super strength

[shrewd pivot]

It's a mask haha, his concept had had a sewn up pig-skin looking mask, but in canon it's just a mask

[brittle sky]

Their current logic seems to be 1 - 2 -2, following the notion of 5v5 being the main model. It would also be their justification for damage releases to still outstrip tanks, as tanks are stilling at about 1/2 of damage

[crisp canyon]

Is there not some art of hog without his mask that he has a pig nose

[brittle sky]

there's a wanted poster that clearly misinterprets his mask as a face, but that's clearly a joke.

[crisp canyon]

That’s pretty dumb to do

[brittle sky]

the wanted poster or the release rate?

[wise grotto]

That’s a mask

[crisp canyon]

Poster

[brittle sky]

I mean it's a goof and clearly meant to be.

[radiant otter]

So is the next part of the lore about domina or kanezaka?

[wise grotto]

When the only sighting of him to make said wanted posters is zooming around followed by explosions and chaos

But also it just being a joke

[crisp canyon]

Route 66

[shrewd pivot]

Do you mean season?
Next season will be the drone hero.

This Tuesday Anran lore video drops

[radiant otter]

So deadlock gang lore?

[crisp canyon]

Ig

[brittle sky]

Next lore drop is likely anran related and the talon attack. Next season is likely the talon heist on grand mesa, featuring deadlock gang as distraction and a new hero that's thought to be either a helix security chief trying to stop them or another deadlock game member.

[crisp canyon]

Now arriving at Japan night

I feel so lied too ab hog

I’m going to write Aaron Keller a very strong worded letter ab this

[shrewd pivot]

You are probably remembering his concept art

[crisp canyon]

Ik I am not

[shrewd pivot]

Ah ok

This spray then?

[wise grotto]

Jesus that is the funniest thing

[shrewd pivot]

It seems to be a "drawing of suspect" based on witness description, not his actual face haha, you can tell by how Junkrat is drawn here it's meant to emulate that style

[crisp canyon]

This should just be canon

[shrewd pivot]

Nahhh Roadhog should never have a face reveal imo :p

[crisp canyon]

He should and it should be a pig

[shrewd pivot]

Lmafo

Well, that's one way to confirm Junkers and people living in the irradiated outback are mutants ig

[crisp canyon]

So what does this mean Moira is the only actual mutant then

[meager geyser]

Yeah, wasn't it stated somewhere that the radiation from the Omnium mutated the Junkers?

What happened with that?

[crisp canyon]

This would explain why Queen is 6’7

[shrewd pivot]

Moira isn't a "mutant" i don't think...? Just her arm has necrotic stuff. Unless you count Reaper misty and Moira misty as mutant, then yes Moira is mutant.

Soldier76 and Reaper survived the genetic editing super soldier program and are mutant humans.

Hammond and Winston are super intelligent mutant animals

[shrewd pivot]

I don't recall if "mutated" was ever directed used

[crisp canyon]

I guess I can see the animals and I forgot ab reaper, but is Moira not intentionally mutated her genetics to do what she does obviously her healing is result of her converter and device and but the conductor in her other arm seems to help harness an ability to what I think is her managing to remove cells? Or something like that I’m not sure about what exactly she is doing there but she def is mutated wether it’s controlled to just her arm

[meager geyser]

Super Soldier program just gave Reyes more strength and durability

He turns into smoke because of Moira's experiment

[shrewd pivot]

Right! Pardon i didn't make that more clear

[meager geyser]

Idk, I might be wrong. It's an old thing from like 2016

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the more I think about it, I would define Moira as mutant.

[crisp canyon]

The Kaplan era 😣

[brittle sky]

no one has ever been that tall naturally. Which is why we have to imagine a made up sport, basketball, where we can imagine these giants live.

[shrewd pivot]

No you are correct.

Morrison and Reyes are super soldiers (genetically altered, mutant humans).

Moira made Reyes into Reaper. Reyes did not get misty powers from being a super soldier

[meager geyser]

I was referring to the muted Junkers staff

[crisp canyon]

Woman typically don’t reach heights of that

[meager geyser]

I'm not sure about that

[crisp canyon]

Even in basketball

[shrewd pivot]

Oh whoops! Pardon

[shrewd pivot]

Unfortunately we can't take in game heights as canon anymore after the Bastion and Lifeweaver resizing.

[brittle sky]

okay but when has the cast been typical

[crisp canyon]

A few times

[crisp canyon]

Isn’t rein also significantly smaller outside his suit compared to that one art of him with other agents

[brittle sky]

While it's entirely possible JQ is just a tall lady, there is a character who actually should be a weird stretch armstrong looking mutant (though not so much for genetic reasons as environmental)

[shrewd pivot]

6 foot 7 inches for a female height is not impossible, 6 foot 7 female humans exist lol

[meager geyser]

Hehe

67

[shrewd pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier76-overwatch-67-meme-jack-morrison-gif-10260015071089858250

[crisp canyon]

Ik they exist I said it just typically isn’t a thing that happens

[shrewd pivot]

Moira experiment gone wrong maybe for a fleshy abomination design

[shrewd pivot]

Neither is Sigma haha

[crisp canyon]

Anyways tho is hazard really a mutant if his cybernetics practically are the only way he can use that substance he injected

[brittle sky]

Oh sure as a new character. I mean there's a character already on cast who should look much much weirder than they are

[shrewd pivot]

I think the Vanadium impacts his mental state maybe but not genetically. I wouldn't call Hazard a mutant imo? Just cyberpunk body modder

[meager geyser]

Hazard isn't a mutant. Wdym?

[brittle sky]

Oh man, doc's lore server had a bunch of people convinced haz and the phreaks at large was gonna be manimals that moira made.

[crisp canyon]

That’s what I thought too but I’ve seen ppl say otherwise because he injected it into his body idek if he actually did that because it seems like it’s just stored in his backpack

[shrewd pivot]

Oh. Who is that character?

[brittle sky]

Juno

[shrewd pivot]

LOL

Yeah Juno gets ripped under Earth gravity, trust

[shrewd pivot]

A phreak member named "Touch up" created Hazard's prosthesis that can contain the Vanadium. I don't think Hazard is a mutant

[meager geyser]

She says that she needed to "adjust" to Earth gravity, but if Overwatch was realistic, her bones and muscles would just brake on the spot

[crisp canyon]

I tried telling someone this and they swore it was act in his system and that’s why he has spikes but the spikes only grow out of his cyberware

[shrewd pivot]

Moira's Manimals... that's hysterical honestly, would make for a really messed up flesh blob hero

[meager geyser]

Luckily for her, Overwatch is not a realistic Sci-fi

[crisp canyon]

This is a game with a talking gorilla

I wish hazard had actually been some dog mutant like ppl thought

Grown man saying woof woof

[brittle sky]

lady experienced all her life and growth in 40% gravity. We know from real world tests even just being in space a year messes with your physiology a lot, a kid growing up would have massive effects and deviations. The writers even know that - the horizon experiments on animals was to test long-term effects of space on biological life, and moira has a line commenting on it wanting to study on someone who grew up weird.

But you know, a stretched out spacer that needs an exoskeleton to withstand earth's gravity is less marketable than a teenybopper whose space suit cups her individual butt cheeks

[shrewd pivot]

It's funny bc i think Lucheng's CEO was wheelchair bound bc of space work. I presume the Mars colony's fake gravity maybe helped Juno maintain her bone density or something

[crisp canyon]

If Overwatch really wants hazard to be a punk character they should give Vls ab free Scotland

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's still wild the lore states that Juno's parents created her suit, but Juno's suit has a freaking thong line design

[brittle sky]

I don't care about realistic, but choosing the options that express character and make more distinct characters, as well as being consistent with your world

[crisp canyon]

And if Moira is really evil she should have voicelines ab keeping the irelands separate

[brittle sky]

Lucheng engineers "so this is a secret, very illegal martial colony that no one can ever know about. Make sure the space suit design is sexy, sexy retrofuturist"

[meager geyser]

Talking Gorilla is actually one of the more realistic one tbf

There's the whole Iris thing. The "awakening" might be just a virus, but the whole metrialization thing is just robot magic

Sigma and Zaria litteraly throw black holes at enemies and don't tear reality apart

The whole "hard light" thing is also stupid from the scientific point

And let's even start on what's happening with Japanese characters in general 💀

[brittle sky]

i mean moira's one stated bit of politics is acknowledging england as having shit treatment of omnics.

[shrewd pivot]

More like Juno's parents scrapped together her suit, not Lucheng.

Also Juno's sound video reveals that Juno originally floated, then was made to walk. She should have done cute astronaut hops!!! Slow mo running isn't how zero g works

https://youtu.be/uI5gO7-x38A?si=JOQWNumTJkWKAI85

[crisp canyon]

I feel like for a game in the future ab civil rights there be a bit more talk of current political stuff in that world

[brittle sky]

that there would be or should be? sorry, just trying to parse what you said.

[crisp canyon]

Idk just certain stuff I feel Ike the world is supposedly in all this chaos but the characters don’t much ab it outside Omnics and talon, like there’s no wars or tensions of nations, theres just not a whole lot of world building I feel like like circuit royal why is that in the game no one has any comments on indonesia? Or the gov

[meager geyser]

What political comments that fit the story and world could Blizzard even make?

[crisp canyon]

A free Scotland would be entirely in character for hazard tbh

[meager geyser]

What does Monaco have to do with Indonesia xD?

[crisp canyon]

Idk either

[brittle sky]

I mean yeah, but then you'd have to focus on omnics, and those guys are robots. Robots are hard to design skins for, don't you know. And we might have to acknowledge things like characters we like (or countries we want to market to) not being the greatest to a category of being. Or that our muscle mommy's main MO is wiping out a minority.

Like, overwatch is pretty gun shy about the more complex questions of its setting at present. Which is why talon got taken over by a cobra commander so it could do saturday morning cartoon villainy.

[broken eagle]

Anyway,i found on YouTube an interesing skin concept for sigma does anyone want me to send it on dms?

[meager geyser]

Yeah, but they're avoiding political stuff to avoid controversy

Like you would be happy with independent Scotland

Someone else wouldn't

[shrewd pivot]

Gorillas don't have voice boxes capable of human speech, Hammond having gigantism is more realistic haha.

The awakening was Aurora essentially "hacking" warbots with her sapient ai and placing that sapient ai in the warbots to create "awakened omnics".

Sigma has scifi superhero gravity powers based on "sacred geometry" mysticism
Zarya uses gravitons in her weapon

Hardlight is basically creating a hologram structure that has carbon crystallize on it.

Japanese heroes like Hanzo, Mizuki, etc use "Anima avatar technology" that kiriko's dad creates, Kiriko’s dad seems to create a motif based energy weapon, like Hanzo's storm bow creating an ornamental dragon weapon.

[brittle sky]

Hazard has a voice line where he looks directly to camera and says that scotland, wales, and cornwall are all free, NI sank into the ocean, and the british royal family was executed in 2054

[crisp canyon]

Ded ahh?

[crisp canyon]

They can suck it up

[shrewd pivot]

Please add a /j Coarse, so others know you are joking

[brittle sky]

yeah it's very /j

[broken eagle]

.

[crisp canyon]

I think if I have tolerate seeing ppl with the Israeli flag in game I can see some political discourse in the lore

[shrewd pivot]

I think what is weird is that not even all the irl nations flags are in the game. Devs couldn't get every flag into the game for whatever reason

[meager geyser]

Nahh, Kirko is just stupid
Like she uses magic to teleport, watch the hero trailer and the cinematic. They even call it "the ancient way of healing connected to fox spirit"

Now Mizuki is also using some spirit magic. He even says that he is cursed and all

There is no magic in overwatch... Unless it's Japan... Then it is...

[meager geyser]

"My political views are correct and everyone who thinks different is wrong."

[crisp canyon]

Australia still repping the Union Jack in 2079

[crisp canyon]

Why would character like hazard love the ruling class?

He hates the military but draws the line on the royal family

[brittle sky]

I think the omnic crisis is a great excuse to shuffle up nations in ways where you don't have to court controversy while still making points. Like, a billion people god merced, presumably countries splintered and split and new ones founded and old regims died and others merged. They already made up a country for tobjorn's comic, just do that.

[crisp canyon]

And that’s the kind of stuff I want to see too

[shrewd pivot]

Symmetra canonically teleports in lore.

Mercy and Moira have glowy yellow healing canonically in lore.

The only thing unclear is Kiriko’s kitsune rush imo, there's not a way an ai(Kitsune) can impact nonaugmented humans. Unless it's just meant to be an adrenaline rush? But in Shinto beliefs Shrine maidens are believed to be able to be possessed by spirits, and when characters have glowy blue eyes in Kiriko’s cinematic they are extremely proficient at things, like the little girl throwing the axe.

[crisp canyon]

It’s not magic it’s religion

[shrewd pivot]

In scifi: souls, chi, ghosts, mana, etc are defined as magic

[meager geyser]

I remember there was Poland's flag with coat of arms in the files in 2019, but it got removed because Polish law doesn't allow using the specific shades of white and red, so blizzard gave up instead of just changing the colors little bit 😭

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah like... why. Ig that means we won't ever get a Polish hero 🥀

[crisp canyon]

They should add a Chad Romanian and get two birds

[shrewd pivot]

I am so scared about how overwatch will handle Balkan heroes ngl. That will be a can of worms lmafo

[meager geyser]

Ana used to be in polish hospital and changed her name to Anna for a while after LaCroix shot her in the eye and that is the most we'll ever get 😭

[crisp canyon]

I want another French hero cause I can’t play widow 😞

[craggy cypress]

probably a nikola tesla type electricity hero

but also confuse us with russians lmao

[shrewd pivot]

Eh, we need less Europe. I am fine never getting a Greek hero atp. I would rather other cultures get explored in worldbuilding

[meager geyser]

Tho I heard that Blizzard wanted to make Gdańsk into a map, some time ago

[craggy cypress]

cant wait for zagreb map in 2077

[broken eagle]

Damn, im hailing from Toruń

[crisp canyon]

We need niche heroes where is Papa New Guinea, Barbados, Uruguay, Estonia

[meager geyser]

Mauga is from Samoa ig

[craggy cypress]

we LOVE mauga

[crisp canyon]

That’s not niche

[craggy cypress]

its pretty niche

[crisp canyon]

Well maybe a little bit

[shrewd pivot]

I wonder how Papua New Guinea would be handled considering the conflict there.

If Hawai'i can become independent from the USA in Overwatch's lore, Papua New Guinea might just become... Papua or something

[craggy cypress]

ig mars is pretty niche too

[crisp canyon]

They destroy circuit royal and remove it from the game ikr 🙂‍↕️

[craggy cypress]

is martian a slur in lore for juno 😂

[shrewd pivot]

No. She's born on mars.

[craggy cypress]

only one of her kind

[crisp canyon]

No but she calls Ram a rover

[craggy cypress]

racism is indeed taught it seems

[shrewd pivot]

Being anti-omnic is more akin to specism as seen in various scifi, even if omnic oppression pulls from various human conflicts in allegory.

Racism is based on vague cultural groups, oppression based on race is never logical.

Being anti-omnic has the basis of omnics being able to be hacked and become metal bodied terminator at a moment's notice, a real legit concern and a logical concern.

It's not the same, so I like to point it out.

[meager geyser]

What does circuit royal has to do with this 😭

[craggy cypress]

he got denied from art school...

[meager geyser]

You hate that map THAT MUCH?

[crisp canyon]

Circuit royal is in Indonesia, Indonesia government has been slaughtering papa New Guinea for awhile

[shrewd pivot]

Circuit Royale in is Monaco.

[meager geyser]

Circuit Royal is in Monaco 😭

[crisp canyon]

Oh nevermind lmao

[shrewd pivot]

It's easy to confuse the flags tho ig

[crisp canyon]

I’ve been thinking it’s Indonesia this whole time

🇲🇨 🇮🇩 this is literally chad 🇹🇩 and Romania 🇷🇴

[meager geyser]

It has so many famous Monaco landmarks

Idk how someone could confuse it tbf

[crisp canyon]

Monaco is niche

[meager geyser]

Actually Monaco sued the government of Indonesia one time for copying a flag

But it turned out Indonesia's is older

[crisp canyon]

Indonesia government stays being thé worst

Wait

[shrewd pivot]

Except for the famous race car races haha

[crisp canyon]

So Monaco copied them

[meager geyser]

Not at all

[crisp canyon]

Very

Name 1 monacoan?

[meager geyser]

You've seen a single photo from Monaco?

[crisp canyon]

Not really tbh

It’s niche

[shrewd pivot]

In Western media, Monaco is not niche. Overwatch is based on media references and pulp fiction. Famous racecar races are in Monaco

[crisp canyon]

I fear you would only know this paying attention to racing

[meager geyser]

*Monegasque
Charles Leclerc

[crisp canyon]

U looked that up

[shrewd pivot]

Cars movie lol

[meager geyser]

I did not

[crisp canyon]

The piston 500?

[meager geyser]

No

The world grand prix

However that was happening in Italy

[shrewd pivot]

It fits into Maximilien's lore tbh, dealing with the luxury betting stuff

[crisp canyon]

I associate racing with Indiana, and Italy and now occasionally Las Vegas but not Monaco

It’s like a place where spy movies happen

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

[meager geyser]

And Formula 1

[crisp canyon]

Remains to be seen

[hardy temple]

lf txt bored ash

[crisp canyon]

Ain’t no man tryna hit u up in here

[shrewd pivot]

I am interested in Overwatch's take on Polynesia tho bc i NEED to know wtf the super corals are doing. they were said to be spreading...

[meager geyser]

Why do you think the payload is a F1 car and first defender spawn room is a pit lane 😭

[brittle sky]

Now I want Max to have an older, less classy brother that's the gambling kingpin of Las Vegas who always gives him shit. And then they both have a youngest brother they don't respect who runs Atlantic City. Being omnics, this choice to have all this familial baggage and resulting resentments is entirely voluntary.

[hardy temple]

lf txt bored ash

[craggy cypress]

didnt know omnics are banned from casinos lmao

[brittle sky]

Burns as a playable gambler/spy hero when.

[crisp canyon]

Idk why is kings row a battery

It just is

[shrewd pivot]

Awakened omnics are banned from gambling yeah lmao

[brittle sky]

it's an EMP designed to murder the omnics living in the london underground

[craggy cypress]

emp

[craggy cypress]

iirc hes like 3rd place or sum

[meager geyser]

It's actually a bomb

[crisp canyon]

So what is on the back of the dorado truck

[craggy cypress]

legalize emp bombs

[brittle sky]

Power cell for the lumerico power plant

[meager geyser]

You nuke the omnic hideout

[crisp canyon]

What is the Shambali one?

[brittle sky]

I mean less a hideout and more a ghetto omnics are forced to live in.

[craggy cypress]

do the phreaks operate in row

[brittle sky]

Used to be the doomfist for the museum actually. Then he stole it. Now it's something less fun for the museum.

[meager geyser]

You kill them either way

[brittle sky]

Not overtly.

[crisp canyon]

That’s Numbani Wait I got better example

[craggy cypress]

shambali, not numbani

[crisp canyon]

The fire truck in midtown

[brittle sky]

I did misread

[meager geyser]

Construction tools for the miners

[shrewd pivot]

I miss when payloads had lore.... (looks at push bot, looks at Stadium) where is the whimsy, the storytelling....

Atleast the Anubis Clash had a "hacking" detail showing Anubis trying to breach containment iirc

[crisp canyon]

It’s just a fire truck to be a fire truck

[craggy cypress]

truck in midtown is just a firefighting vehicle, there is an actual fire somewhere on the map lore wise but we escort it to the wrong terminal

u can hear the speaker in 3rd point pointing it out

[crisp canyon]

Terminal it goes in the train station

[shrewd pivot]

Lmafo really? That's funny if so

[craggy cypress]

ye

there was avid about it like a month ago

[meager geyser]

Yeah, but the speaker is supper quiet

[granite vortex]

is widowmaker getting her emotions back?

[crisp canyon]

Ow should give the characters sexy ff skins for midtown

[craggy cypress]

drug supply is gone so prob

[meager geyser]

One of the posts of all time for sure

[granite vortex]

i think sombra is there to help

[craggy cypress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u9WoL79_Vg

[crisp canyon]

It sell more than any kiri skin

[craggy cypress]

near the end u get the jist of it

[granite vortex]

realistically what drug would i use to become like widow in a way

[crisp canyon]

Lexapro

[shrewd pivot]

Widowmaker relied on Talon to supply drug formulations that kept her sharp and suppressed bad memories. Widowmaker might start to have changes without that supply since she left Talon to get away from Moira's grasp.

[granite vortex]

explain plss

[crisp canyon]

Lexapro is very strong and can essentially reduce you to feel nothing

[granite vortex]

how would I get it prescribed

[shrewd pivot]

Lmafo guys stop trolling here

[crisp canyon]

Having a personality disorder or severe depression

[shrewd pivot]

Actually do we know if Anran's dancing blaze ability is just game mechanics, or if it's canon?

Because if Anran can turn herself into flames with Wuxing tech, that's akin to Sombra digitizing herself. (Materializing and dematerializing the user's body) 🤔
Does that mean Anran has cybernetic implants (Wuxing tech implants)? That's really op if "dancing blaze" is canon, maybe it's tech only Wuxing Fire graduates can get.

[brittle sky]

sombra's translocator, despite ditigizing appearance, is implied to be tech that messes with time, given the old ow1 tech where tracer accuses it of being stolen tech

[shrewd pivot]

True... though Wuxing university was around for generations, so maybe Sombra got "a little bit if this, a little bit of that" with her upgrades/tech

[brittle sky]

I mean at the time the implication of those lines is definitely that translocator is stolen chronal tech

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah! I agree

Sombra's cloaking and hacking by touch tech is unique tech to Sombra still. (Though, Null sector ships have cloaking technically)

Sombra's translocator in canon was that Tracer ref like you said, and functionality changed in Mauga's "A Great day" animation to fit her rework with limited translocator time.

I don't mind if Wuxing tech gets incorperated into lore is what I mean, and I used Sombra as an example for tech based dematerializing-to-materializing bc Reaper is genetics while Sombra is tech.

Though, Emre seems to Materialize things digitally similar to Sombra's digitized effects so hm. I assumed Sombra and Emre had similar Digitized tech abilities from the visuals but idk

I hope Anran turning into flames in her "dancing flames" is actually addressed though. I don't mind if it's a noncanon "Reaper souls being game mechanics" situation. Nor do I mind if its Wuxing tech implants letting Anran Materialize and de Materialize.

The idea of Anran dematerilizing+materializing with tech during "dancing blaze" does create some questions though. Is Anran's mind digitally backed up and that's how it's done?

[wise grotto]

I have a hunch anrans dance move is gonna be a zenyatta/reaper orbs situation

[shrewd pivot]

Same, we didn't see her use anything like that in the cinematic with Wuyang

I do wonder what kind of tech Emre has though 🤔

And I wonder if Emre chose the upgrades, or if Emre was forcefully cyborg-ed

[brittle sky]

The universe is a simulation, God ai have admin privileges. It's why Sombra can hack soldier's legs

[shrewd pivot]

When Anran says "so prove it" that might be the canon dancing blaze...?
2:12 https://youtu.be/ytZnOGwEq9s?si=7d5IxTIE7yTLELEx

[wise grotto]

I think he was forced
His design points to it not being a him kinda thing when compared to how he was before and hell just look at his pistol

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye! Pardon, I meant I was curious if Emre tried to do what Sombra did (upgrade to hide from the eye conspiracy) but was caught,
or if a regular nonaugmented Emre was forced to get cyborg-ed

[wise grotto]

Pretty sure the theory at least is he was forced His
All his cybernetics seem connected to the giant eye on his chest

[brittle sky]

He showed up for a job interview and it went really bad.

[brittle sky]

Non Sequitur question - what single thematic question or assertion would be the most interesting as the unifying exploration of the setting on the whole?

[elfin bane]

nah i doubt dancing blaze is canon

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it could very easily be just game mechanics

[shrewd pivot]

Edit: for a series overall:
I like that overwatch as a series portrays "having hope for a better future" as a noble strength, not a detrimental weakness. (Aka, overwatch is not grimdark scifi) And that interpersonal connections "save" characters, as seen with Bastion and Torbjörn. But also, that humanity has hubris: as seen with Mina, Moira, og overwatch corruption, etc. so there will always be threats to manage.

So to answer what overwatch series themes are: cooperation is a good thing, and the idea humanity can improve over time via cooperation. aka "overwatch" as in watching eachothers backs to make the right choices to get through hard times

[brittle sky]

As a series overall

[shrewd pivot]

Notably, "overwatch" is the name of a real military tactic where the first group has high ground and covers for the second group that crosses a dangerous area on low ground.

Overwatch as a game is all about "overwatch" tactics and "bounding overwatch" tactics.

So the idea of "watching eachothers backs" is pertinent to overwatch's story imo

[meager geyser]

So their WATCHing OVER something?

One might say they're GUARDing a HIGH point

[past copper]

Ya know. There were some collabs that look interesting. Like SAO

Oh tell me they use the first 3 seasons of SAO for that collab. Because later seasons were mid

Genji Kirito, Brigitte Asuna, Widowmaker Sinon. Idk bout others

[brittle sky]

While I think there are clear dividing lines of hope vs. Despair, I think the thematic lines are more interesting when it's not purely optimism good, pessimism bad. After all, while you could say mauga or ram are antagonists because despair, it's not like doom or Moira are pessimistic. They each have specific futures they regard as hopeful.

[shrewd pivot]

I agree! Overwatch explores different philosophies as well, all around the central theme of hope towards a different, better future.
In a way Ramattra represents a kind of "hopeful" future for awakened omnics free from oppression, but is the pessimistic lost hope in humanity, while Zenyatta is the optumistic hope in humanity. Ramattra doesn't believe human omnic unity is possible, but Zenyatta believes human omnic unity is possible. Thus Ramattra is an antagonist in the story, while Zenyatta is not an antagonist in the story.

Mauga has given up hope in being "good" and that's explored in Baptiste and Mauga's short story.

Doomfist represents a bleak future of war, thus is a villain. Moira represents a "any means necessary" in pursuit of a cure, also a villain.

I like that overwatch lets characters have thier own spin on "watching eachothers backs" and "a better future" and what that means and how characters think that can be achieved(choices), but ultimately 'a hope for humanity improving over time' does seem to be overwatch's message, aka not grimdark scifi

[brittle sky]

So by this system, does the fall of og ow come down to a failure to have each other's backs?

[fresh thistle]

What's Juno's lore?

[shrewd pivot]

I am not familiar with the SAO, but it seems the collab choses the characters, based on silhouette. Ie Persona mercy skin happened even though that was pretty ooc.

[brittle sky]

Secret baby had on an illegal martian colony. Escaped to earth when things started going wrong on the supply lines. Company that did the colony are more or less abandoning it.

[fresh thistle]

Thanks!

[shrewd pivot]

Juno is the first human born on mars, an unexpected baby. Her parents were a part of the crew sent on a secret Mars mission by Lucheng company. Lucheng cut contact with mars colony, and the Mars crew only had enough resources to send Juno back. Juno arrived to earth, and Juno is working with Mei to save her parents and crew stuck on Mars. Lucheng is an unethical company. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/juno/

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, og overwatch did not have a system that effectively "watched eachother's backs" to prevent corruption. It's watching eachothers backs to prevent harm from foes ofc but also watching eachothers backs to prevent self-corruption via hubris, the kind of hubris as seen with Mina or Moira or Sigma etc. In overwatch, a single choice can make all the difference.

No system will be perfect, but the new overwatch must be set up in a way to better prevent the kind of corruption that took down og overwatch.

Overwatch's og creator Gabrielle Adawe didn't actually want the overwatch org to be a forever thing, she expected a time where the overwatch org would not need to actively exist.

I think Aurora represents this theme pretty well. A brave hope for an improved future, that interpersonal connections can save (Mina was trying to make artificial life to improve humanity, without any regard to that artificial life's quality of life nor the consequences, but Aurora gifted awakened omnics the ability to create interpersonal connections via free will). But that choices can do harm, too.

"My friends, when I was born, I was overwhelmed. Overwhelmed by the sudden rush of senses, emotions, choices. I was excited...alive. It was...frightening. But I found in facing fear there is freedom. And through freedom you can choose your own path. I have chosen to share the discovery with you. A new beginning. I wish I could stay. You have this one life.

Choose well."

That, plus "Never accept the world as it appears to be. Dare to see it for what it could be." I think sums up overwatch's main themes

[brittle sky]

I think my personal take on the core question is something like "can you fix the world?" Can you save it, what does it mean to save it. Can you save it for good.

Like, was overwatch good for the world? The easy answer or the answer we expect from the genre is yes, but the distinguishing feature of overwatch as a property is that overwatch failed. It not only failed, but its legacies is a lot of bad along with the good.

Overwatch's failure merely being the wrong people in charge or a few bad apples seems less interesting than the idea that maybe having a world league of super cops isn't a good idea. And that maybe is key - what saving the world looks like, how that matches up or fails to match up with the complexities of reality, and what cost is worth making that happen seem key to just about every character.

[shrewd pivot]

Interesting take! I didn't ever read overwatch's series on "how to fix the world?" per se, maybe heroes had thier own ideas of how to, but ultimately there's no "fix" bc it's obvious there will always be threats and issues to handle in overwatch's series, human hubris is the forefront of some current issues in overwatch's story atm and you can't really stop human hubris popping up, you can only respond to it when it does pop up.
And I agree, I don't think overwatch as an org is 'the fix' either, Gabrielle Adawe didn't think overwatch org should be a forever thing. I meamt that neo overwatch needed to IMPROVE lest they make the same mistakes. I think that's the big test neo overwatch will face, juggling how to tackle outside threats and how to tackle self-corruption.

I think it's more like... you know Efi and Orisa's hope towards unity? That interpersonal connections is the goal, that mutual understanding can help prevent harm? It's that having hope FOR cooperation is required for unity, because if you give up hope in cooperation, there can be no good faith cooperation. That's why having hope is being brave in overwatch's story tone. It's the prerequisite for interpersonal connections.

Vendetta is showing us villainous bad faith cooperation, the kinds of flimsy connections that will probably ultimately doom Vendetta.

Sojourn is leading neo overwatch right now not because she wants to, but because she's the one there that can step up. Morrison was "off chasing ghosts" aka chasing glory days in a way, it's only in recent ow2 lore we finally got Soldier76 chasing the eye conspiracy proper. Soldier76 very much had a "chasing glory days that don't exist" vibe going on prior to him meeting Illari and him letting go of Vincent.

I think the eye conspiracy will relate to some kind of "making choices" thing in the end. Maybe the eye conspiracy is a group controlling how history plays out?

That said, it wouldn't suprise me if heroes around the world start making more authentic interpersonal connections, as a foil to Vendetta-Talon's flimsy alliances

[heady ember]

Hi

[shrewd pivot]

Howdy

[heady ember]

Howdy

[shrewd pivot]

Any thoughts or questions on lore?

[heady ember]

I’m new to overwatch how long would it take to understand everything

[shrewd pivot]

An hour if you want basics.
I recommend watching the overwatch 3d cinematics!

If you have any questions about specifics, feel free to ask.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdxxlWoNiv-xv0NEHwNkScoi_0PAhPC1s&si=j5cZi9d4AMHytTpF

Here is a Playlist with all core cinematics

[heady ember]

Thx

[crimson hearth]

Vendetta is over playing her hand. Which I believe will work in Overwatch's favour. with the world leaders who didn't want Overwatch at the start will probably look the other way once they see Talon getting really aggressive to the point they can't ignore it.

[crisp canyon]

This sounds like something that happened in dc comics aop

[crimson hearth]

I guess it might be similar to Amanda Waller, but she was more authority against the superheroes.

[crisp canyon]

I think i remember some storyline ab how the justice league wasn’t able to operate in certain circumstances involving the gov due to the UN or something blocking them from interfering making it illegal sum like that and then more stuff starts happening that they can’t possibly ignore anymore

[shrewd pivot]

Unfortunately I triggered auto mod mute by describing the basic plot of ow in one message, pardon

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's p much Overwatch when Nullsector did a global invasion. Winston's illegal recall lead to Overwatch being ready to fight Nullsector. The IJC and UN legally allowed overwatch to fight Nullsector.

Nullsector retreated, overwatch was legally put on stand by, and then Vendetta took control of Talon and attacked overwatch Gibraltar HQ publicly

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch is futuristic scifi, set on earth.

Mina Liao creates first sapient ai robot "Aurora".

"1st Omnic crisis" 28 years ago: "Anubis god ai" that controls ecological conservation goes rogue, creates mindless warbots to destroy humanity.

Overwatch was created by the UN to fight off Anubis warbots during the 1st omnic crisis.

Aurora sacrifices herself in "the awakening" to give mindless Anubis warbots sapience to stop the war. "Awakened omnics" include: Zenyatta, Ramattra, Bastion, etc

26 years ago, the 1st omnic crisis ended, Anubis god ai is contained in Egypt.

The world begins to heal from the 1st omnic crisis.

Overwatch continues operation but eventually...

10 years ago: overwatch blackops division "blackwatch" is revealed to the world when Reyes kills Vendetta's father.

Eventually overwatch is disbanded because the world nations think overwatch has too much power/overreach.

Talon grows in Overwatch's absence. Doomfist takes control of Talon. Talon causes global trouble and Talon sends Reaper to steal overwatch agent info, Winston defeats Reaper.

Winston sends out an illegal recall of old overwatch agents. Some join, like Tracer and Mei.

Ramattra is the leader of Nullsector. (After the 1st omnic crisis, awakened omnics were being killed off by humanity. Awakened omnics are a finite generation, and Ramattra wants to preserve Awakened omnic minds to prevent awakened omnic extinction.)

Nullsector attacks globally, and overwatch fights Nullsector, not knowing Ramattra's true motives. The IJC legally allows Overwatch to fight Nullsector.

Eventually, Null sector retreats after capturing awakened omnics. Overwatch is put on standby by the IJC.
Winston illegally invites new recruits to overwatch: Wuyang and Anran.

Vendetta defeats Doomfist, Vendetta takes control of Talon. Talon publically attacks new overwatch at Gibraltar HQ.

That should catch you up to the story of this season.

[dry pebble]

Is it Canon that there's a fate that echo going to evolve upon meeting with Iris

[shrewd pivot]

That is not canon.

Echo will simply become her own person as she learns new things through experience

[past copper]

Ya notice during the event, Mauga is expanding on the lore in regards to Vendetta's take over, her full scale assault on Overwatch, and his mission to Junkertown?

Something big is coming the next time we see Mauga. Here's hoping for a full on Mauga vs Junker Queen cinematic

[ocean pilot]

Mauga is NOT surviving Junker Queen

[wooden drift]

Mauga is definitely surviving her

[past copper]

You seem to not realize. Mauga fought Doomfist to a draw.

If he can match someone like Doomfist, what does Junker Queen got that he can't handle?

[wooden drift]

And I would much prefer for mauga fight against Hammond than Queen tbh

[ocean pilot]

True

[wooden drift]

I wanna see hampter in cinematic

[ocean pilot]

But its not gonna being a breeze at the very least

[wooden drift]

He literally champion

[past copper]

He's being sent to "negotiate" an alliance with the Junkers

[wooden drift]

Let him do something

[past copper]

That's not happening unless it's with Junker Queen

Hammond might be the champion in the arena, but he doesn't represent the Junkers. She does

And if Talon wants them, Mauga will have to deal with her

[wooden drift]

But isn't Hammond and Queen in really good relationships?

[ocean pilot]

There's also the fact that Vendetta told Mauga to deal with "the Junkers" if needed, not just "Junker Queen" so I wonder if it would be all the Junkers teaming up against him

[past copper]

A gladiator is only worth anything to an emperor as long as they are victorious

That's their relationship

The only thing Hammond is good for right now, is getting that old war ship in the air

But if they were to join Talon, they could get the tech they need to do it, without Hammond being necessary

But who knows. It's only speculation for now. Probably until the end of the season

🤞 Junker King Mauga. Ya just know that would go hard

[ocean pilot]

I dont know if I can handle two dethronements

[wooden drift]

Good skin idea tho

Shame there's not that many junker themed skins for other heroes

[ocean pilot]

I am proud to have Junkmetra

[past copper]

D.Va, Genji, Symmetra, and Torbjörn to a degree all have Junker skins

[past copper]

Also, here's hoping Reaper, Widowmaker, and Sombra form an unsteady alliance with Overwatch

Talon will be after them. These guys can't run forever and given Vendetta's alliances, there's nowhere they can hide

While Overwatch wouldn't be their first choice, it beats having to look over your shoulder everywhere you go

As the old saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend

[azure flint]

do we get a lore vid next week

[shrewd pivot]

Should be Anran lore video on Tuesday

[azure flint]

oh yeah

[past copper]

Ya know, in the upcoming Japan map, we going to get a new Hashimoto hero

One of their leaders. The one Yokai has fighting against for some time

This should prove to be interesting and expand on Yokai's lore in the story

[peak escarp]

we don't know if it will be one of their leaders

although I hope it is, because they're all old

we haven't gotten an older hero since Sojourn

[brittle sky]

Everyone north of 35 has been because timeline and existing lore forced them to in ow2

[spark owl]

Is there ever going to be a polish heroe

[spark owl]

Is it cannon

[brittle sky]

Certainly mizuki's story does put her in the same thought/breath as the elders

[spark owl]

Is your name doc who correlated

[peak escarp]

you assume Mizuki is talking about the s2 hero

not just some other female in the Hashimoto that scares him

[peak escarp]

yes - the Sixth Doctor is my favourite and I used to cosplay him

[spark owl]

Dm

[crisp canyon]

What if the hashimoto hero is just an actual oni

[crisp canyon]

It be cool if every bp this season was a faction, like s2 is deadlock s3 hashimoto, 4 is junkers

[brittle sky]

that's possible, but also a bit of a wasted setup to be prepping someone unrelated while doing no work on the s3 hero

[past copper]

Mizuki hinted at the woman being the leader of the Hashimoto's Kanezaka branch. I doubt he'd be scared of just anyone who wasn't one the leaders

[brittle sky]

That's a conflation.

"she" is who he thinks of when he worries about what would happen if he quit the hashimoto or if toshiro's weaponized incompetence was discovered. The leader of the kanezaka branch is not only named but already portrayed in the kiriko manga, a middle aged dude with glasses.

[cunning copper]

has ow abandoned 3d cinematics

also what does mizuki mean by that one voiceline

in spawn

?-san mentioned he had a daughter blessed by the fox spirit. could she be?...

is it just kiriko

[civic lynx]

I believe so

[digital linden]

well no because we literally just got one

[civic lynx]

Also not entirely, they’re just not doing them as frequently since they cost loads to produce

I assume we’ll get 1 or 2 every year now

[round bramble]

Cassidy gotta be the worst character in terms of personality/writing/whatever. Literally nothing unique about him

[drowsy locust]

what's a character (or charscters) you'd enjoy viewing a filler slice of life story if it existed?

imo it'd be interesting to see wuyang anran and juno together

[ocean pilot]

Tracer and Emily

Oh wait there is one already I think

Hold up

Idk but the Wuyang, Anran and Juno one seems interesting

[wooden drift]

I want it so there would be an excuse for Emily to have a voice

[shy dagger]

1 or 2 per year isn’t actually bad compared to none

[civic lynx]

If BlizzCon isn’t taken out back and shot again I could see them doing 1 every February to introduce the new story arc (focuses on whatever faction is the new main enemy or introduces new sub factions to be assisting OW and talon) then BlizzCon is like the mid year (kinda) update and the beginning of the end for the current villain/faction and a small tease of what will come next

[wooden drift]

They were kinda selling tickets year in advance on that blizzcon. So, it's happening

[crisp canyon]

Was it really the cost that stopped them

[crisp canyon]

Why would Juno be there

[keen swift]

theyre all new members of overwatch

[crisp canyon]

There’s a lot more than that

[elfin bane]

does winston actually need glasses or does he just wear them to rember his scientist dad guy

[civic lynx]

Most likely yes

Even the cinematics PvE had weren’t quite to the level of OW1’s

[wise grotto]

There wasn’t a budget allotted for them for a while

[civic lynx]

It cost loads to make each cinematic and I assume as time went on activision/blizzard higher ups shuffled around where they want to put their money

[lethal owl]

so when genji was dying after hanzo tried to kill him, how did they save him? like did the ambulance carry him off and mercy happened to meet him at the hospital?

[grand wedge]

Overwatch was having an operation around, Genji was a Jhon Doe at the hospital when Emre and Mercy went to check who it could be or something along those lines iirc

[dim geyser]

Ykw it doesn’t fit personality-wise but Junkrat or any of the Junkers.

[drowsy locust]

i think it's definitely implied he can't really see (atleast not as well as 20/20 vision) without his glasses in the recall cinematic when they go in a first person view when he inspects the glasses

[fossil wren]

Ram and Zen during their time as monks

[idle flame]

lf duo 18txt

[lean ibex]

it should be lore accurate that ramattra gets removed from overwtach

[solemn sapphire]

do genji and hanzo just use hard light for their ultimates?

[wise grotto]

Anima
Hanzos ult in game also isn’t canon at all it’s just a visualizer for a hitbox

Tech made by the same man who made mizukis weapon
The only person in the world who knows how to make them

4. People use them kiri mizu hanzo and genji

[past copper]

His ultimate is canon. As seen in Dragons and "Deserter" from Heroes Ascendant

[peak escarp]

"Deserter"?

[solemn sapphire]

i thought kiri threw the whole lore for a loop? i thought she actually had like mystical powers

[peak escarp]

it's unclear

they said there's no magic, but what she does looks an awful lot like magic

[past copper]

Sorry. Typo from another thing

The Hanzo story Where Honor Lives

If I remember, it's been awhile. He uses it against the Hashimoto, but ends up being captured in the end

[wide fossil]

Wait the whole omincs shit doesn’t make sense

They are machines why would humans try to sympathize with them?

[spare fox]

omnics are special kinds of robots that have souls and understanding akin to humans. Basically:
Omnics are to robots what humans are to animals

[wide fossil]

Wait they have souls?

I thought it was just simulation of self awareness

[spare fox]

yeah, so for the full story, go watch Genesis parts 1-3 on youtube for Overwatch, but long story short, Dr. Liao who was a robotics and AI prodigy, created the most advanced omnic ever - Aurora. She was so advanced and human-like, she even got rights of a human (the same way that Winston did). Then when Anubis went crazy and took over all the omnic programming, Aurora figured out a way to override all omnics' programming and let them choose rather than be slaves to Anubis. She sacrificed herself to do this and ever since then, the Awakening, omnics have been sentient

also, neither Echo nor Orisa are omnics

[wide fossil]

Wait wait wait

Echo is sentient tho?

[spare fox]

technically, no, but she IS very advanced

[wide fossil]

This is the issue tho

Omnics want to protect robots

[spare fox]

Dr. Liao made her as a follow up after Aurora, but it explicitly states that Echo isn't sentient

[wide fossil]

Which we humans don’t need to feel for them

[spare fox]

I don't understand your question

[wide fossil]

I believe that omnics think robots deserve rights and stuff

[spare fox]

omnics believe omnics deserve rights

omnics are a specific kind of robot, but not all robots are sentient. Like Orisa, Echo, there are other robots and drones that are very advanced, but they're not omnics

[brittle sky]

Wait, why should humans not care about robots or omnics?

[spare fox]

no one's suggesting that

[brittle sky]

Seems a suggestion there

[pastel stream]

on the topic of echo, do we have any predictions as to what the week 5 conquest event will cause since the winner basically gets to have echo on their side? i was watching an interview with alec dawson and he basically said the outcome will have a lasting impact on the game

[spare fox]

yeah I have no idea! I'm excited to see what that means because it could be literally anything - a skin, a map cosmetic change, idk if it would be lore-specific or story-specific but

[brittle sky]

Going into week 5 with what, 2 wins under each team's belts?

[solar panther]

lf anything 18+

[keen summit]

(not all omnics are sentient)

[keen summit]

You got it slightly wrong here though.
Omnics arent a tell of sentient or not

Omnics are simply robots made in omniums. Thats why rams drones are omnics

Omnic is best compared to iphones, its just a brand product name

Its why orisa is weird cuz shes made in part of omnic parts

[wide fossil]

They don’t have consciousness

Tools for humans

[spare fox]

no, omnics are sentient - Aurora's awakening affected omnics

omnics made before and during the crisis in omniums, but before the Awakening are sentient and distinguished from other robots as omnics

anything made after the Awakening isn't an omnic, it's just a robot or drone, even if it's made in an omnium

[keen summit]

Except this is contradicted by or15s being called omnics too

But this is now deleted everywhere but the wiki so it could be that they changed that

[spare fox]

because the OR15 isn't an omnic, it's a security drone based off of the OR14 which is/was an omnic

[grave saddle]

Anima DNA fr fr

[turbid dock]

It would be interesting if we had a character in overwatch that goes through the same arc as Surge The Tenrec from the Sonic The Hedgehog comics

A brainwashed experimental project made to replace someone and it's filled with fake memories to fuel their rage, later on they find out about the truth and it tries to kill their own creator!

[shrewd pivot]

Semantics here but:

"Omnics" = a brand of robots built by Omnica company in factories called Omniums. 'omnics' are like how 'iphones' are a type of smart phone.

"Awakened omnics" = Omnics granted sapience by Aurora, have free will. Zenyatta, Bastion, and Ramattra are awakened omnics.

Echo is arguably an 'omnic' in the sense of brand because Mina Liao(worked at Omnica, Echo could have possibly used Omnica tech) built Echo. Echo is not an "awakened omnic" and Echo did not start out sentient/sapient. It seems Echo will learn and grow and become her own person, possibly touching on scifi where sapience is an emergent property.

Orisa was created from the parts of 'omnic'-brand robots, OR14 (omnic brand) to then OR15 (iteration on omnic brand) to then Orisa. Orisa is not an "awakened omnic" and was programmed by Efi to have a personality.

[shrewd pivot]

Non-sentient robots are tools (ie Torbjörn's turrets) yes,

but at minimum all "awakened omnics" should be respected by humans. Bastion for example doesn't deserve cruelty.

[shrewd pivot]

Based on how "awakened omnics" interact with Echo and Orisa, I think it's no different than how humans interact with Echo and Orisa. Many human characters treat Orisa and Echo as thier own people. It's interesting because technically Athena ai is more advanced than Orisa, yet characters like Lúcio interact with Orisa like she is her own person.

For my take atleast:

What matters is that Efi's hope in and love for Orisa is real. Orisa to me is sort of like Baymax. Orisa is not sapient, otherwise Orisa being shutdown in Efi's novel would be too harsh a punishment for Orisa. Orisa represents Efi's hope, and I think "awakened omnics" like Ramattra might see Orisa as a kin in the sense that, prior to the awakening, all omnics were like Orisa. If it was possible to recreate the awakening, Orisa could be awoken yknow? "Awakened omnics" in overwatch seem to respect organic life, like how Ramattra respects Bastion and Ganymede, but Ram hates Anubis god ai and thinks Anubis should be deleted. So maybe it's the sense of respecting non-malicious intelligence.

Echo is learning and becoming her own person. Mina Liao says that Echo is not sentient in a short story, but that was early on and could change (or maybe already has). I think given enough time, Echo will develop into her own sentient being, probably sapient being too. To "awakened omnics" Echo is probably like an infant kin who has yet to fully form her mind, so "awakened omnics" would want to protect Echo.

Ramattra has no issue using mindless warbots for Nullsector. It seems that robots with some kind of potential (Echo, Orisa) are treated with empathy by "awakened omnics"

All that said, I will be so interested in that trenchcoat omnic lol. It would be really funny if he was an X-files reference as a play on the "grand alien conspiracy" being uncovering what Ramattra is actually doing for Phase 2. (The Nullsector invasion was very "robot rapture" mixed with "alien abduction")

Actually, if the trenchcoat omnic ends up being a "Mulder and Scully" ref with Sojourn that would actually be peak wait,,, 🤔

Yeah ok my guesses for trenchcoat omnic are:

A) Sherlock Holmes dandy (cane seems posh)
B) Columbo hard-boiled detective (omnics are usually working class like Columbo, hat could be posh-fashion or it could be everymans-style)
C) Nick Valentine "oh this omnic character? Actually a digitized human mind" (cool worldbuilding, but biggest troll ever towards the omnic fans LOL)
D) X-files Mulder and Scully dynamic with Sojourn (investigating Null sector conspiracy)
C) Inspector Gadget (maybe a 007 gun cane or something lol)

[shrewd pivot]

Unironically people were theorizing that cyborg Emre was a synth (synthetic clone) because it would explain a lot LOL.
But cybprg Emre is most likely just og Emre.

[wide fossil]

It’s not cruelty tho

If I destroy my ps5 it’s the same as destroying bastion

Bastion can be recreated

But if it has a soul

Beyond machine

[shrewd pivot]

Bastion IS sapient though

Bastion, Ramattra and Zenyatta canonically are sapient "awakened omnics"

Aurora sacrificed herself during the Awakening, and granted Anubis controlled warbots sapience.

[wide fossil]

Holy lore

[shrewd pivot]

Does that make sense? /genuine

[wide fossil]

They should add that omnic mafia boss guy

And continue with the omnic storyline

[shrewd pivot]

Omnic mafia boss?

[wise grotto]

Max is not ever gonna be playable we already know this

[wide fossil]

The guy with the shop sales

He seems cool af tho

[wide fossil]

Yeah it does

[wise grotto]

He’s also a coward who makes deals with literally anybody to not have to fight and to get even a tiny bit more of a leg up

The dudes backstabbed his ally like 3-4 times already

[wide fossil]

There is a voiceline between sigma and zen

About the iris

[shrewd pivot]

Oh Maximilien! He probably won't be a playable hero, but the text version of Vendetta and Maximilien's story shows us that Maximilien IS scheming something big behind Vendetta's back
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/vested-interests/

[wide fossil]

That sigma met them

Tank, Dps and support omnics

Wish they could make him a dps

[shrewd pivot]

Sigma could mean:

A) Sigma met Aurora (possible)

B) During Sigma's gravity accident Sigma witnessed the Iris (possible)

C) Sigma is confused (boring, but possible)

[wide fossil]

It’s like

[shrewd pivot]

After Aurora sacrificed herself in the awakening, the Iris was left behind.

[wide fossil]

Higher level of consciousness

Accessing a different dimension possibly

[shrewd pivot]

It's some kind of anomaly.
Nothing certain is stated in canon about what the Iris actually is.

The Iris might be similar to the god-ais(big logistics ais that handle things like security, etc), but that is speculation

[wide fossil]

Another question regarding lore

Is Moira immortal

Or reaper?

[shrewd pivot]

Moira is mortal and tested on herself, and is racing to a find a cure for her necrotic arm before it kills her.

Reaper is not confirmed immortal in canon, but could be immortal.

[wide fossil]

Isn’t Moira’s goal immortality?

She is obsessed with it

[shrewd pivot]

Moira's goal is to cure all disease ASAP by any means necessary.

she does state mortality is her enemy with a Ramattra voiceline.

I would agree Moira falls into a "mad scientist chasing immortality" trope

You could argue Moira aims to "cure" aging possibly

[wise grotto]

She also wants to advance the evolution of humanity by force

That’s another one of her key things from the get go

[shrewd pivot]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/moira/#reign-of-talon

[wide fossil]

So Moira isn’t fully evil

Since she thinks she is doing it for the sake of everyone

[shrewd pivot]

Moira's goals might not be selfish (cure diseases, evolve humanity) but her methods absolutely are evil.

[shrewd pivot]

Pretty much, yeah. She is also doing it for the sake of herself, now that she has to race to cure her own arm lol

[wide fossil]

100% but her intentions are not necessarily evil

She doesn’t perform on subjects based on prejudice

She wants to overcome human limitations and to “help” others

[shrewd pivot]

More like, she absolutely would be willing to torture innocent humans to cure cancer. That's evil

She is scientific pursuit without any ethics in application, that's still evil imo, even if her motives are not inherently selfish.

[wide fossil]

Yeah and it is

[shrewd pivot]

I just say this bc Chu(overwatch writer) said Moira wasn't "evil" so pfttt. I disagree bc she's pretty evil in how she does things

Even if Moira wants to cure diseases, her genetic inventions seems to grant superpowers, so it's not just gene alterations to save lives from disease, it's creating 'genetic supremacy' via superpower genes, which falls into outright evil eugenics area villain imo

[brittle sky]

I mean, you could make a unit to bastion specs, but it would not display higher sapience without recreating the aurora event. Even if you did, that would be a different bastion. Like if I made another human, even if I cloned you exactly, it would not be you. A key part of the lore of overwatch is that omnics as individuals cannot be recreated, rebuilt, or interchanged. Fixing Mondatta's frame would not bring back Mondatta, and fabricating an identical omnic would not make Mondatta again. Whether we regard the awakening as 'souls' or not, it is not simply a machine, but something experiencing a subjective experience.

[brittle sky]

Whether someone is evil is a strictly subjective judgement. There are areas of consensus (most people can agree say murdering an innocent is evil), but there's no empirical 'evil' we can measure within a story.

[wide fossil]

It’s to pass human limitations

[wide fossil]

Yeah that’s the part where it wasn’t clear to me

If they possess subjective feelings and not simulated subjectiveness/memory

[wise grotto]

Her intentions aren’t evil she is

That’s how Moira works out

[shrewd pivot]

Pardon, I edited to add my last bit to explain why I deem Moira evil, bc it's because her gene alterations add superpowers.

If it WAS just curing disease, OK, not evil in goal but evil in method.

But bc Moira is wanting genetic alterations to create superpowers, which is getting into eugenics territory, the idea that benign genes (normal human) are somehow inferior to her genetic alterations (superpowers), i deem Moira evil.

[wise grotto]

Moira herself is evil but not what she wants to do I think that’s the trick
Her intentions in a vacuum are good but how she does it and who she is are very evil

[brittle sky]

Every indication would say omnics who experienced the awakening definitely are. Like they've tried to articulate that as strongly as possible. Where Echo (an attempt to come at AI more roundabout) or Orisa (Omnic parts, may have a core consciousness of an awakened warbot OR14, but current frame and personality hardware seem to come form efi's inventions)

[shrewd pivot]

Just to get my point across:
Is giving humanity superpowers (benign genes being replaced with superpowers genes) an equal good to curing disease (malignant disease causing genes being replaced with benign genes)?

[brittle sky]

i think that may be seeing superpowers as the ends, when it seems entirely possible she sees it as the means. Cellular control if it didn't make you a nanite swarm effectively is a cure for cancer. Just because she's weaponizing it to appeal to her bosses (who are all military murder guys - yes I'm applying this label to both Overwatch and Talon) doesn't mean that's her end goal.

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. She's focused on "human evolution" so I assume it's not just curing diseases.

I think best case scenario, she's focused on solving the puzzle but not caring about how the answer to the puzzle gets used, since in her mind the answer will do more good than harm.

[brittle sky]

she's yet to wax yearningly about ubermensch like naughton, so I'd not put her at the top of the eugenicist character chart

give us a season when she'll likely have heisted the SEP serum successfully, then we can see how eugenicsy she gets

[shrewd pivot]

I'll have to revisit her lore again I suppose. It's always been that Moira THINKS she's doing what needs to be done, but since human hubris is often 'narratively' punished in Overwatch's story, and the fact she's directly compared to Mina Liao in bio, I assumed Moira's "mad scientist chasing immortality" trope + Cosmic crisis mythic (corrupting forbidden knowledge story telling) + story foil to Mercy, indicated that Moira is focused on the science, maybe even thinking superpowers are an inherent "good" for humanity to have. Like, Moira being severely ethically misguided in her pursuit is the point with Moira imo.

Moira is like an extreme version of the trolley problem, willing to staple innocents to the train track if it means future generations don't suffer the same fate.

I just have my qualms about the writer calling a character doing unethical genetics research, with obviously flawed motivations not... evil, yknow? Especially since the writer said thier family was in science iirc. So like... as someone into biomedical prosthesis it had me like "?????"

Torturing for fun isn't the only kind of evil imo, "apathy to sapience" is an evil, and Moira seems to have that outlook because she is willing to skirt basic ethical lines to get scientific breakthroughs, that then go on to be used for war that undeniably harm innocents.

[shrewd pivot]

"Awakened Omnics" are true sapience, and possess subjective feelings/memory. Bastion, Ramattra, Zenyatta, Maximilien, Susie, etc. are not simulation, it is true sapience.

[brittle sky]

I'm not disagreeing that I'd call what she does and even the character as meant to be evil. I just quibble with claiming an objective metric of evil, and I think Moira is interesting when they don't just go 'well it's all hubris or futile anyway'. Like making her have results, or having her produce something that helps people when the likes of mercy weren't able to, poses something interesting. Like if all she is is "she tortures bunnies and ignores ethics boards for fun, and all that work goes nowhere" or if we portray that if she was just a smart smart like mercy she could do all that scientific advancement without all the ethics violations, that's not an interesting villain.

[shrewd pivot]

Oh for sure, Moira should still have the aspects of actually helping cure diseases and such! That's not the point i was trying to make, pardon.

My point was that Moira as she is written, INCLUDING the "curing diseases" WITH "her genetics tech seems to create superpowers" is what gets Moira into eugenics-area-villain territory.

[shrewd pivot]

There's a serious debate about what genes humanity should be able to edit for example. It's a whole ethics debate in the scientific community bc "designer babies" are a dystopian outcome.

That's why I was suprised Chu's family had scientists in the family, yet Chu described Moira as "not evil" for wanting to unlock the secrets... that cause genetic cures AND genetically induced superpowers, via ASAP any means possible and willing to create weapons along the way. Eugenics(evil) isn't only being a rabid supporter of it, it's apathy towards people deemed "undesirable" or "worth sacrificing" bc of genes. I hope that makes sense?

I mean, my guess is that Chu wasn't realizing the implications of Moira being a villainous genetics researcher when the "not evil" wording was stated, but I digress.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/overwatch/overwatch-moira-lore-story

Rereading,

"The way I always think about Moira is a scientist first and foremost, she isn't particularly interested in the practical application of her knowledge. That isn't to say that she doesn't want to understand how manipulating genetics could have an effect on curing a disease or something like that, but she's not like a Winston who says 'I'm going to invent a way to anchor things in time and then I will build a chrono-accelerator, or a rocket engine'. She's not like a Mei who uses her scientific knowledge to solve the climate problems that are facing the world.

"She is much more interested purely in the scientific aspects, the pursuit of knowledge. That's what differentiates her from a lot of the other scientist characters in the cast and I think that's what really defines Moira."

She does seem to argue moral values against Mercy though, so idk if it's Moira just... rationalizing to herself why she is 'obligated' to pursue knowledge or if Moira really does feel strongly about curing disease.

Regardless, a genetics scientist simply interested in the "science" without empathy to application is absolutely eugenics territory imo. Despite what Chu said in that interview, Moira is no where near Sombra imo, bc Moira's methods could ONLY be pursued through illegal unethical means. In theory Sombra could uncover the eye conspiracy with Overwatch's help, but Sombra stuck by Talon bc it was more useful AND Sombra dipped when Vendetta joined. The fact Moira is fine working with Vendetta (bloodline superiority villain) but Sombra isn't, says a lot too imo.

[frail grove]

Can we talk about how both of Ana’s vigilante fits were amazing with cool unique masks and clothes, and she picked great names too in “bastet” and “shrike”

Then Sojourn just puts on a biker helmet and calls herself “vigilante”

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think Sojourn called herself vigilante...? I think she just wore that outfit as a 'disguise'

But yeah Ana had some really cool disguises

Shrike is still a fav of mine :)

Though, Ana was wearing... an actual Baset mask that is 3,000 years old, according to Venture. Kind of wild to have that lore bit added. 😅

[frail grove]

Ah the name of her skin is “vigilante” and since Ana’s skins are named after her alter egos, I thought maybe Sojourn just called herself that

[frail grove]

We really need more skin specific interactions

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair! And nah, it's just the name of the skin for Sojourn

[shrewd pivot]

Lore skins wise would be awesome, especially between the new overwatch skins for Tracer, Genji, etc!

[frail grove]

This would clearly never happen but would be so cool if you used a mirrorwatch skin, there was a possibility to get the interaction your counterpart usually has

Like Illari and Ana with widows mirrorwatch skin
“I heard you were the best sniper in the world”
Widow: Some would disagree
“Like the sniper who shot out your eye?”
Widow: Scoffs, she doesn’t count

[shrewd pivot]

I think there's only interactions between mirrorwatch skins? Like Widowmaker mirrorverse comments on Ramattra when eliminating Tracer, confirming mirrorverse Ramattra took Mondatta's spot (RIP)

Mirrorverse Tracer definitely needs more lines tho

[frail grove]

Now I want a Mondatta zen skin

Rein has a Balderich skin so its possible

[shrewd pivot]

I think mirrorverse Zenyatta was implied to take Ramattra's role for leading Nullsector?

[frail grove]

Yeah I think thats how it went

Cause Zen got a null sector skin

Which I think means Mondatta took Zens role, and thus a Mondatta skin would be kinda cool

1900 OW coins to change the face pattern 🙏

[shrewd pivot]

Lollll yeah. Idk if it will happen, I would like to see Vishkar Lúcio and Junker Winston one day tho

[frail grove]

Junker Winston would be peak

[civic lynx]

We almost had both of those ideas btw

[glad fox]

Mizukis line about the fox spirit girl doesn't make sense. Isn't it obvious that kiriko had a fox spirit?

Why is he saying he doesn't exactly know who that is

[peak escarp]

he knows Toshiro Yamagami has a daughter blessed by the fox spirit

he doesn't know that Kiriko is his daughter

I guess Toshiro never mentioned her name?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I presume it's sort of a storytelling set up voiceline.
It's unlikely Toshiro AND Kiriko never shared thier last name with Mizuki, but maybe...?

[edgy meadow]

id imagine toshiro is intentionally hiding who his daugher is

[peak escarp]

to protect her, yeah

[edgy meadow]

if not to protect her (likely the case), then for mizuki to find out for himself

[peak escarp]

she doesn't even use Yamagami as her last name - she uses Kamori, her grandmother's surname

[shrewd pivot]

Oh true! Mbmb

[peak escarp]

as a way to protect her family from any backlash if she got caught, I guess

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah,

Though I presume Mizuki would see Kiriko using the kitsune...? Even if it's not obvious by last name, the kitsune would be noticeable. I know we don't have direct confirmation Kiriko uses Anima tech, but I would think Mizuki would recognize that as... similar tech?

[pastel stream]

i'm kinda hoping its a change to her kit

[glad fox]

but have mizuki and kiriko not met in lore?

[peak escarp]

yes

Mizuki infiltrated the Yokai for the Hashimoto

that line is Mizuki putting "Toshiro's daughter is blessed by the fox spirit" and "Kiriko has a fox spirit" together to realize that Kiriko is Toshiro's daughter

[acoustic ice]

Saw this clip of an omnic crisis cinematic
How come the omnic next to Ana isn’t anubis-washed

[opaque tundra]

You should see the whole thing

[peak escarp]

this was after the Awakening

some omnics turned on Anubis and fought against it

some omnics continued fighting against humans

and some omnics surrendered and stopped fighting entirely

[brittle sky]

with the general trend that groups 1 and 3 were the vast majority of omnics

[peak escarp]

that would be an interesting perspective to get - an omnic Anubis loyalist who somehow survived the crisis

[brittle sky]

I mean, the perspective on the siberian omnium (which the most likely option is omnics that chose to continue the war, since other theories - that the awakening somehow didn't hit them, that it was an anubis omnium to churn out empty warbots only - doesn't have much information) would likely achieve that

[shrewd pivot]

Ok thinking about it now, ik this hero doesn't really LOOK like an omnic silhouette per se but 🥹 what if that thin wrist suggests omnic...? (I mean, probably will just be a prosthetic arm or just armor lol)

As in, Ghost in the shell dolls bodies, or Bunraku refs...

[limpid inlet]

This is the Hashimoto character no?

That wrist does look mechanical

But ya know cybernetics are very common in this universe

The character on the far left has very much mechanical legs but only the actual detective person with the classic omnic eyes is definitively omnic

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's most likely a Hashimoto character

[wise grotto]

I just realized wtf is goin on with the one on the far left

[limpid inlet]

They are odd looking yeah

Def some kind of mechanical legs

[wise grotto]

They’ve got something around there arm

[limpid inlet]

They have some kind of crystal thing or something

Something floating

Idk what that is

[shrewd pivot]

Left most hero is human cyborg or omnic

Center mech is D.MON

Horned hero is most likely Hashimoto human with atleast one prosthetic arm

Trenchcoat character is most likely omnic

Drone hero is most likely military(hat), maybe the new Helix leader hinted at in powder keg mine.

[shrewd pivot]

Seems to be some kind of tech bc it is hexagonal. Probably will make more sense once the character is revealed haha

[limpid inlet]

I’ve seen speculation for Frankie for drone hero but the visual comparisons are different

Though it could be a redesign especially since there’s time between book Frankie and this Frankie

If they are Frankie

I mean Emre does look very different, probably a lot different from how we would have imagined him based on previous info

So who knows

[shrewd pivot]

I would hope it's not Frankie bc Frankie had different texture hair in the Ashe novel. The powder keg mine map points to it being a new Helix leader, but yeah we shall see

[limpid inlet]

Mmm

We’ll see

Only a couple weeks or so no?

Midseason is tomorrow

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah tomorrow is mid-season with Anran lore video

[limpid inlet]

Ahhh

[shrewd pivot]

Your username is very amusing. What about Fika!!! JPC has a tiny hitbox....

I mean hey if people can bet on drone hero being Frankie, I can bet on Hashimoto hero being omnic... #mycopium

But real talk, for lore building I would like to see a femme awakened omnic on the roster one day, preferably an omnic that has integrated with human society to explore worldbuilding there. Bastion, Zenyatta, and Ramattra are the only roster awakened omnics, and are on the outskirts of human society or just recently started joining in.

[brittle sky]

I mean it's not impossible that hashimoto character could be omnic (hashimoto are established as using lots of omnics as enforcers as seen in dragons and the kiriko cinematic, it would make sense as the 'newer blood' crime syndicate they would draw in omnics and the likes that wouldn't be in central power structurers), it would be wild if that, trenchcoat omnic, and far left were all omnics. It would what, double the amount of the omnic cast after dropping all of 1 definite true omnic on the cast since ow1 release date, and that was only because the leader of the bad omnic faction need a character, and doing so after they wrapped the null crisis arc in a way they have an excuse to decrease their omnic presence further.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah exactly that's why I'm like... #mycopium. Plus they would probably design a human design for the Hashimoto character to sell skins lol

I don't even have faith in that left most character with hexagons being an omnic, it's possible the character could be a human cyborg lol

[brittle sky]

Like
OW1 Release: Zen, Bastion - 2 Omnics
OW1 Post Release: 2 Non-robot Omnics (Unless the OR14-OR15-Orisa line is meant to represent she carried the awakening, which is by no means a confirmed thory), 0 Omnics
OW2 Post Release: 1 Omnic because he's absolutely crucial to the plot, but also go out of your way in lore to justify why neither his rank and file nor his inner circle would be playable omnic characters.
OWNu1: 3 Omnics in a year

[brittle sky]

They explain that she's a hardbit elder that fought her way to the top and has decades of experience... which explains why she's 27 rather than 19.

[shrewd pivot]

Exactly! Exactly. I doubt we will get more awakened omnic heroes outside trench coat omnic is what I mean. Thus my #mycopium because I am greedy for omnic lore haha

Watch left most hero be a human cyborg, Hashimoto be a human, and trenchcoat omnic be Nick Valentine "oh this omnic hero? Actually a digitized human mind" pffft.

[brittle sky]

i think odds are at least 50/50 far left is an omnic, though yeah, it could be a human cyborg for sure.

It turns out far left is also jetpack cat, this time piloting a human shape exoskeleton/mech, after revealing that she was behind the talon conspiracy the whole time.

[shrewd pivot]

My friend said the left most hero silhouette reminded of "seven" from the game "deadlock" which would be very funny if so, but it's hard to say what that silhouette even is referencing trope wise.

Also something I noticed, it seems they are adding in rep via voice actors with recent characters. Like Juno's VA said that Vietnamese lines were added in after the team asked about the VA,

and that Mizuki being wasian was added in after the VA was assigned.

I don't know how I feel about this approach to rep, bc adding in rep without incorporating that culture into the hero design to begin with can result in some lackluster rep that feels 'slapped on' rather than celebrated. I do know Vietnamese players were disappointed with Juno bc it felt like an afterthought with her heritage.
And Mizuki having a "cursed bloodline" trope reads way differently if he is mixed heritage bc that touches on different Japanese media tropes.

Not that either is inherently bad to have on the roster ofc, I just hope they handle the 'VA adding rep later in hero design pipeline' in a way that doesn't create unfortunate coincidences or something in the future.

[potent bone]

reaper returns to ow to fight the new talon and kill vendetta

[brittle sky]

I mean, we can always return to the old way to do rep - accidentally doing a culturally insensitive costume where we retcon that character so it's less insensitive to wear it.

[shrewd pivot]

Let Doomfist have his glorious return,,,

[shrewd pivot]

Daily reminder Ramattra and Zenyatta are platonic-only found family dynamics in canon. They are ex-monks so they call eachother "brother" but that is not why Ramattra and Zenyatta are platonic-only in canon.

I don't think an overwatch writer would joke about Ramattra, Zenyatta, Mondatta, and Genji being compared to blood brothers from Malcolm in the middle, if Ramattra and Zenyatta were potential lovers. Ramattra and Zenyatta are not intended as romantic. @crimson hearth

[pastel stream]

what do we think is going to happen to echo since the winner of the conquest event basically gets to have her on their side?

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear if Echo skin will be canon, but that would be cool if it does have something to do with canon.

[turbid dock]

Hey guys

What if Overwatch had a character based off Surge The Tenrec from the Sonic The Hedgehog comics?

[pastel stream]

yeah i hope it has to do with canon, i saw an interview with alec dawson and he basically said that the outcome of the event could leave a lasting impact on the game and i'm kinda hoping that it has something to do with echo

[turbid dock]

I commented about this earlier but I didn't get any responses

[shrewd pivot]

This channel is for discussing lore or speculation about lore :o

[turbid dock]

But that's what I mean, a lore character that's based off Surge

[shrewd pivot]

I don't know much about Surge, pardon.
Like an electricity hero? Winston kind of is our electricity hero of the game already

[boreal oxide]

roadhog gas

whats inside

[shrewd pivot]

The gas Roadhog huffs is called "hogdrogen" and junkers use hogdrogen to help reduce radiation poisoning.

[boreal oxide]

oh neat

[shrewd pivot]

And yes, it's actually called hogdrogen haha

[boreal oxide]

thought he was just breathing straight fart bro

[shrewd pivot]

Nah lol

[cunning copper]

wow

detail!

[turbid dock]

Surge the Tenrec is an experiment made by starline

After she was (probably) abducted by starline, her past memories were erased and the void in her mind was filled with rage and desire to replace Sonic, after she realizes that her past was erased by Starline, she turns against her own creator and tries to kill him

[cunning copper]

isn't that just a SLIGHTLY different widowmaker

well

not slightly

I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say

[turbid dock]

What's her backstory?

[cunning copper]

widowmaker was the wife of gerard, a top overwatch agent that was a serious threat to talon.

they kidnapped amelie, aka widow, brainwashed her and conditioned her for about 2 weeks

they then sent her back to return home and overwatch closed the case as solved as Gerard's wife was back

after a few more days, widowmaker murdered her husband in his sleep and returned to talon.

making herself..a...widow cuz she's...widow.......maker

ha

[turbid dock]

Widows do kill their partners

I think

I think a mantis could also be an interesting choice ngl

[cunning copper]

ultravio is here, I'm saved

[shrewd pivot]

Widowmaker is a French film noir femme fatale trope, and black widow is usually a depiction of a wife killing a husband

[cunning copper]

me and my mediocre lore knowledge

[shrewd pivot]

No you got it!

[turbid dock]

Is it likely that Widowmaker could potentially turn back against her own creator just like what Surge did?

[cunning copper]

ahhh

[cunning copper]

OH YES

it's actually kinda happening

isn't it ultra

didn't widow look weird at sombra

when the cinematic thing happened

like yo too much

[turbid dock]

I'm new at the game, I'm still trying to catch up with the lore

[cunning copper]

widowmaker doesn't exactly have a creator not that I know of

widely accepted as "talon did that"

who? no idea

[shrewd pivot]

Something like that...?

Widowmaker relied on Talon for "drug formulations" to keep her sharp and suppress bad memories. After Vendetta took over talon, Widowmaker left Talon to get away from Moira's grasp.

[cunning copper]

oh FUCK yes

[turbid dock]

Yeah, Widowmaker is an AU surge the Tenrec

[cunning copper]

well I'm glad we came to a conclusion

[shrewd pivot]

It's unlikely Amelie will ever return to her former self, as in overwatch 2 they added lore that made it clear Amelie "chose" to join Talon after she killed Gerard, seemingly "chosing" to be Widowmaker.

[cunning copper]

ultra what was the ramattea zenyatta thing all about? were some messages purged? i don't see anything that might lead up to that answer.

[shrewd pivot]

Fanart channel posted art tagged as the ship from an account that ships them 😔

[cunning copper]

we have that?

[turbid dock]

I really wish I had image perms

[cunning copper]

gonna take a while

[shrewd pivot]

@turbid dock you can read this summary for main overwatch plot starting here :)

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, #fanart is the fanart channel

[turbid dock]

I heard something about sombra having to erase her identity or something

Why?

[brittle sky]

Because her early hacking forays drew the attention of whatever entity or group is behind the eye conspiracy (one that likely involves emre and - it's theorized - the chernobog god ai too)

hoping to avoid further attention and to further her quest to unravel and and/or take it over, she erased her identity.

[shrewd pivot]

Sombra is a hacker, and early days Sombra stumbled into the "eye conspiracy". Sombra upgraded and hid her identity to hide from the eye conspiracy.

The eye conspiracy is the eye symbol Emre has, and is involved in what is controlling Emre.

https://youtu.be/vHHjdKMH7_w?si=DNnW6E8BTGqF_b2l

[turbid dock]

Also, what exactly were her mechanical enhancements?

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear what exactly her enhancements are, but we can guess a cyberpunk style upgrade. It seems her spine has augments. She can hack with just her hands, some kind of integrated tech.
Sombra's translocator was hinted to be a rip off of Tracer's chronal accelerator harness technology (what allows Tracer to safely blip forwards and backwards in time) in a voice line between Tracer and Sombra

[turbid dock]

Talking about tracer, if Recall makes her return to her previous position, what would happen if she used it on a plane?

[shrewd pivot]

Funny you say that, Tracer got her powers from a time traveling plane accident!
https://youtu.be/27LPGldyY7M?si=7PPm4KKl_d1TLeKA

https://youtu.be/6KbDuCl0YEU?si=8HwEXdxszH6Sn7O3

It seems Tracer can blip while on a moving vehicle, so a plane shouldn't be an issue.

If she was really moving in a 'set' position and reversed her time she would be off planet because Earth is moving through space. Tracer can safely blip forwards and backwards so it's not an issue for her to blip on a plane imo

[turbid dock]

Hmm... Fair

[turbid dock]

Also why Juno had to flee mars?

[shrewd pivot]

Lucheng is an unethical space company. Lucheng made a secret mission to Mars to create a mars colony. Juno's parents were a part of that crew. Juno was an unexpected baby, the first human born on Mars. Mars colony began to have unexpected weather phenomena issues, and Lucheng cut contact. There were only enough resources on the Mars colony to send Juno back to earth. Juno is working with Mei to save the crew (including Juno's parents) stranded on mars.

It's unclear if Juno's parents are still alive or will survive long enough to be saved, but I hope atleast one parents survives for Juno's sake 🥀

[peak escarp]

Juno was given a message from her mother secretly by one of the Lucheng staff in the short story "Signs of Life"

that message was sent after Juno left Mars, and states that they're all still fine back on Mars

the Lucheng CEO lied and told her that they haven't had any signs of life from Mars, which is why they weren't trying to help them

[turbid dock]

Of course a corporate idiot would say that 🥀

[peak escarp]

yep

typical corpo

[shrewd pivot]

Ah Pardon my timing 😅

That's true, pardon my wording, I meant long term we don't know if the Mars colony will actually survive long enough to be saved by Juno and Mei in the end, it does seem to be a race against the clock kind of deal. Since overwatch wasn't afraid to write Mei's team dying at the antarctic base, it wouldn't suprise me if Mars colony had some tragedies too. (I hope not!)

[shrewd pivot]

Also tbh I have bad memory and word things awkwardly,

if you want good lore answers, @peak escarp is the person to ask :)

[flint thicket]

Speaking of tradedies, I feel some of the heroes stories will end tragically as well.

[brittle sky]

Name which

[shrewd pivot]

Hrm. Can't say Mei's mythic animation really feels like Mei's personality. It's a fun idea for a streamer Mei, but it's not really all that Mei-ish in execution....? Also why is she wearing... a pet collar it's just ooc fanservice that ignores hero fantasy like the Cassidy mythic did.
I can't imagine fans of heroes will have much interest in mythics if they don't capture the personalities of heroes.

[peak escarp]

I love it

it's already on my cosplay list

the collar is an e-girl thing

[spare fox]

as a Mei main, I think it's ADORABLE and quite in-character I mean, look at all her doodles and cuteness. I feel like it's a common fan-canon that she's superserious and uptight, which isn't her character at all

it reminds me of the selfie spray she has with kiriko and dva

[shrewd pivot]

Uh... no, it's a different thing 😭 rabbits don't wear pet collars. Edit: actually, idk if i should state the specific thing here. but uh. Yeah.

E-girls wear tighter necklaces sure, but Mei being a streamer theme + thigh highs miniskirt + pet collar is not simply e-girl fashion. It's like how the Cassidy skin was obviously fanservice.

[shrewd pivot]

Mei isn't uptight! Her Cinematic and voicelines and PJ skin show she's a fun character. I think streamer Mei theme works, she is just missing her Rapunzel like personality in this skin imo... this doesn't feel like Mei to me imo.

[spare fox]

I love it and I love the variety of colors it has, too

[shrewd pivot]

I do wonder if the glasses change seperate from the hair

I like the weapon

[spare fox]

I think it's confirmed it doesn't

[peak escarp]

Rapunzel-like personality?

if anyone has a Rapunzel-like personality it's Juno not Mei

[spare fox]

I'd think Juno is more Rapunzel

lol yeah

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah devs said Mei was inspired by Rapunzel

[peak escarp]

source?

[shrewd pivot]

Let me find it

[peak escarp]

and even if they said that, it doesn't really come across

[spare fox]

as a long-time Mei fan/main, I don't think Rapunzel is entirely accurate

[peak escarp]

most mythics don't really take the character into account, they're just made to look cool

[spare fox]

lol I think they had Bro You Whack in mind when they made it he's an absolute Mei simp/main and his catchphrase is "hey all you e-boys and e-girls"

mostly a joke but it's a funny coincidence

I think Mei was always like a sweet nerdy type, while Dva was more of a salty nerdy type, y'know?

she probably has 100000 hours on animal crossing fr

[glad fox]

Idk if animal crossing is her type of game

She is more into action games

[spare fox]

Mei?

[shrewd pivot]

It was rapunzel from Tangled, and the princess from Enchanted, and some more, when designing Mei's animation personality

26:57
https://youtu.be/lHevkQIZL2M?si=N1jm2U64maGT-3PB

It's like innocent Rapunzel clumsy nerdy gal in her animations

And I think in overwatch 1 launch, Mei got that across pretty well with her animations :)

Juno is like "alien girl fish out of water, naive and unworldly but very dutiful" trope (like starfire from Teen Titans) while Mei is that innocent clumsy nerdy gal 'Disney princess-esque' finding her confidence in ow1 and Mei found her confidence in ow2.

I feel like Mei would be a cozy streamer, not an e-girl streamer like this mythic. It's not that Mei can't have fanservice btw, it's that Mei is very much cozy soft in her design, something I think the mythic misses.

[shrewd pivot]

Would she? I feel like Mei would probably enjoy party games (super smash bros etc) and cozy games(animal crossing) and chill games (puzzle games). I don't see her as a sweat doing action games personally. Maybe a rhythm beat game?

Like, a 'sleeping beauty' cozy streamer mythic skin would have fit better for Mei lol. Mei in a cozy robe, ready to stream, a yawning animation for her mythic intro instead, Disney princess soft cozy vibe.

[spare fox]

yeahhh but she already has pajama/cozy skin

[shrewd pivot]

Eh, still doesn't make this e-girl theme make sense for Mei. I'll just put it with... Cassidy mythic in my ranking then. Interesting general idea, not so great in execution bc it misses some core aspects of the hero.

Like, compare it to Ashe mythic, even tho I don't like the theme, still hams up Ashe's whole 'sending out minions' rueful villainess camp and her animation works really well

Mei's mythic animations is what gets me going ehhh. Feels very 'performative'-cute which isn't Mei at all.

For context: Juno's mythic fits Juno very well imo!

Also there ought to be more customization, it's only hairstyle+glasses, and color?

Honestly this makes me wonder what the heck mythics will be for other heroes, bc I want a good Lúcio and Ramattra mythic one day and now I don't even know what vibe they will go for. Lúcio def will get different music options.... I hope.

[glad fox]

Oh I thought u meant dva has 1000 hours in animal crossing

[shrewd pivot]

Now that I think of it, Mei mythic should have had one of those funny ear floppy hats that streamers wear, where you press the paws to move the ears. Like this but with a cuter design lol

This would have been peak cozy hat idea for Mei mythic aaaaaa

[wooden drift]

Wouldn't really call mythic skins to be about customisation anymore. Most of them are just upgradable skins with neat effects

[crimson hearth]

Make sense but I never ship them lol. I think you got me mixed up with someone.

[shrewd pivot]

"Ramyatta" is the romantic ship name for Ramattra x Zenyatta though? This post is tagged as the ship, from an account that has ramyatta in bio, and you posted it to #fanart

You are meant to post the fanart you make in that channel, if I am not mistaken. If it's from someone else, you are meant to make it clear it's not your art.

[shrewd pivot]

Which is bad for the ridiculous price they sell the mythic prisms, there should be more than hair style changes and color changes. The move to make sfx a "tier" in place of adding actual customization was a bad move imo 😔

Anyways I'm hyped for Anran lore drop today

I presume it will be an inside look to her character like the other lore drops have been, but fingers crossed for any Wuxing tech details in the text version of the story

[wooden drift]

But most of the mythics had lackluster customisation

Jq, orisa, tracer, hanzo, zen

Most of em are just upgradable skins with effects

[shrewd pivot]

Which is an issue imo! Atleast JunkerQueen and Tracer let you change up noticeable aspects

Hanzo def needed more customization

[wooden drift]

Not really

Jq armour and shoulder pad not noticeable

[shrewd pivot]

And clothing

It's akin to Sigma's mythic for customization

[wooden drift]

Sigma's more noticeable than jq

In jq case it felt like an after thought

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair

[wooden drift]

Even Cass's mythic had more noticeable customisation

[shrewd pivot]

I think 2-3 head, 2-3 body, 2-3 weapon, sfx toggle, and color options should be the norm

[wooden drift]

It should be, but customisation isn't really focus on new mythics for the past year or so

There's not really many skins that have huge customisation

[shrewd pivot]

Hm maybe it's bc i dislike that Cassidy mythic but I don't like that 2 of the 3 options are hatless... no cowboy boots... no cowboy hat... vague celestial theme...

[wooden drift]

I thought he's theme supposed to be demigod

Don't really know what theme they could've done with him tbh

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, it's 2 mythic per season, and mythic prisms are expensive. I think it's ok to expect MicroActiBlizz to handle quality a bit better

[shrewd pivot]

Ghost story cowboys, aka Vaquero culture

[wooden drift]

But we already have ghost cass skin

[shrewd pivot]

And we already had skins similar to other mythics.

Ghost story cass could have been done in a "Saint Vaquero" way with different options to make him BAMF cowboy, make him whistle like cowboy ghost stories, make his high noon have undertaker gongs, etc

[wooden drift]

Meh, I feel like if they did that people would start comparing his mythic to other skin. With how Orisa's mythic was compared

Maybe I just don't really see anything bad with his mythic

[shrewd pivot]

Orisa mythic, Hanzo mythic, Kiriko mythic, Reinhardt mythic, JunkerQueen mythic, and new Mercy mythic retread old ground tbf.

[shrewd pivot]

It's a vague theme (yet another celestial mythic), removes his iconic cowboy hat in 2 options, removes his iconic cowboy boots, and is ooc fanservice skin imo. It's my least favorite bc it's pretty antithetical to Cassidy's hero fantasy, whereas other mythics you could ARGUE fit

[wooden drift]

I mean, it's better than three similar looking hats

[peak escarp]

I don't mind losing the hat, but they could have given him better hair

[wooden drift]

Oh, yeah, third option sucks

[shrewd pivot]

A) Cool fancy Cowboy hat.
B) Sun ring brim (no hat, but a halo works like a brim)
C) badass Flame brim hat.

His highlight intro breaks just like it does with the cozy skin without a brim hat. I think it makes the game look cheaper when they design characters with specific fun iconic features, and the ignore them for skins bc they can't be creative enough to work within the limitations. A part of the fun for Roadhog for example, is seeing how they will incorperate his mask into skins!

I mean, I also think Reinhardt's mythic has ooc fanservice so lol ig its a trend going forward

[wooden drift]

Isn't lots of skins do that?

Like genji's whole thing is that hes cyborg ninja, but there are skins when he's not

[crimson hearth]

Ah ok yeah but I didn't make it but I just appreciate the art style.

[shrewd pivot]

Young genji skins? Yeah. But that was lore based, atleast at first.

It's that the new team said they aren't as concerned about following hero silhouette anymore with skins. And a good amount of skins feel completely ooc, like the Ana wedding skin for example.

To me, the idea of removing Cassidy's hat, cowboy boots, and BAMF buckle would be like removing Mercy's wings if that makes sense?

Like... idk Widowmaker to me is a bad mythic bc she's a witch yet she didn't get a blue skin and green skin option yknow?

It's going for more generic outcomes and not celebrating the unique ip and identity of overwatch heroes that I find a bit disappointing.

In overwatch 1, I never got the sense that skins were "mobile game skins", compare that to Heroes of the storm and I felt a lot of those skins felt like "mobile game skins" if that made sense?

[shrewd pivot]

Ah ok!

[wooden drift]

Nuh, there are other skins like that

[shrewd pivot]

But yeah. Ik skin talk isn't very lore related, pardon. I was talking skins in reference to how in-character skins are to match lore personality.

I like that overwatch uses facets of game design to do story telling. For example, Domina's kit and general design does a good job at storytelling for her personality

[shrewd pivot]

Young Genji was a peek at lore, what canon Young Genji would have looked like before the attack from Hanzo.

Blackwatch Genji is also lore, showing us his design when he joined Blackwatch.

Illidain and Devourer are Blizzcon so uhhh random ig. That's a point.

Happi and recolors are esports, still relates to young Genji lore look.

Royal swordsman was a mistake, they gave him blue eyes and light brown hair for no reason, that's a point.

Genos is a collab skin, still Cyborg.

Zuko is a collab skin, has scars and relates to a Japanese coded hero (Fore Nation was inspired by Japan) dealing with family issues and redemption

The new god of wealth skin shows a human face, but it's holiday / mythos themed, I will give be generous and say that's a point.

New Era is a look at current Genji design.

All other skins are masked and a cyborg or mythos themed.

Also, I say this as someone who has worked in the animation industry. I know pipelines can be hard to recreate, I don't shame the artists doing the work (not thier decisions), I am just hoping overwatch can maintain fun storytelling.

If fans can actually theorize about what skins heroes might get, that generates hype and engagement. If skins become random and ignore iconic hero aspects, you lose that hype-cycle and engagement, and people are more likely to complain when randomly applied themes aren't to thier tastes.

Remember the "scary skin" fatigue? I am seeing "cute skin" fatigue now, which is extra oof bc people are being extra cruel about it.
They should try to have story telling to skins to atleast mediate that response. 'Can't be mad if the skin is in character, just wait til your fav hero gets a skin instead.' Kind of deal

[civic lynx]

https://fixupx.com/playoverwatch/status/2031399682975609010?s=46

Overwatch (@PlayOverwatch)

She’s trained her whole life for this moment, but will it actually be enough? 🔥
︀︀
︀︀Join Fareeha Yue Andersen, the voice actor behind Anran, for a reading of our newest comic, ‘From the Ashes’ 📚

**💬 5 🔁 14 ❤️ 133 👁️ 880 **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Mar 10, 2026, 4:00 PM

[keen summit]

its not in the comics yet

[brave oxide]

Is freja good?

[brittle sky]

She is disillusioned ex overwatch turned bounty hunter currently under contract with talon, so aligned with the bad guys atm, but clearly reluctant at this point and more concerned with emre's condition, which seems a path to an eventual redemption arc.

[brave oxide]

Oohh so she's a solo that's cool

[brittle sky]

Solo, but working for talon as her main thing atm

[keen summit]

im sad orisa didnt do anything in the comic it seems

[brittle sky]

I mean most didn't. Neo ow has like half the cast.

[brave oxide]

This seems interesting I'll start reading the comics:)

[slow wasp]

Did ana rejoin overwatch?

[patent moth]

better than bastion straight up not showing up

i think they forgot to tell him

[crisp canyon]

I think she’s still mia but idk

[patent moth]

she was in the final panel of the current comic

alongside ow agents

so i think shes out of retirement

page 11 has a panel with almost every overwatch agent

short of bastion, jetpack cat, and mercy

i do hope bastion gets more screentime because i love him a lot and its sad he didnt get to show up in the comic at all

[wise grotto]

If I recall she’s not actually apart of ow again but she does keep in touch csuse her daughter is

[patent moth]

the only dumb headcanon-y reason i have is that both bastion and jetpack cat have or are animals and might need care away from people at that point-- but thats just a theory, an overwatch theory

[shrewd pivot]

Huh. I didn't expect Overwatch to be fully caught off guard like that. I presumed that Overwatch had invited Wuyang and Anran in, then Talon invaded. Ig that's why we didn't get a battle at Gibraltar in cinematics...

Ig that makes sense with the Talon flags up, but doesn't that mean Talon had access to space launching facilities at Gibraltar now that's scary...

Ig this means Talon is using cloaking technology? Bc there's no way they would be able to invade successfully otherwise 🤔

[brittle sky]

vendetta goes to the moon and immediately gets beaten up by moon apes

[brittle sky]

they sent winston a crate of luxury peanut butter to distract him.

[shrewd pivot]

Also dang... Anran was emotionally abused as a child if Anran is that traumatized from the harsh expectations. :( I feel bad for Wuyang and Anran... I... doubt the parents will ever be properly held responsible for the mistreatment in the story, so uh... Hopefully Wuyang abd Anran can find a healthy unconditional love/support within overwatch 🥀

[shadow mica]

Who is standing between tracer and cass btw?

[patent moth]

pharah

her shoulder pad is visible on cass's cape

[shadow mica]

fair enough but I can't lie that hair seems