lore-discussion

[brittle sky]

if it's a new medium they should tell it in and of itself rather than rely on in game lore. But also they should focus on a localized story they find compelling, rather than trying to shoulder all the lore at once. See how s1 of arcane worked, and s2 less so.

[shrewd pivot]

Mauga was sent by Vendetta to negotiate with the Junkers, that will be fun to see what happens lol

[shrewd pivot]

Arcane had some major issues in writing/pacing/plot. I loved the visual art though.

I would hope overwatch TV show isn't at all like Arcane writing/pacing/plot

[hushed shard]

theres a voiceline in game where mauga asks junker queen how to sign up for the scrapyard

[brittle sky]

I think while neither side was perfect, the side that was focused on telling its own story and only using source material as it suited said story was a lot tighter and more compelling than the one where they felt a need to lead it back to the 'narrative present' of the game and involve more of the world.

[shrewd pivot]

Which in turn, makes it a fun show, but not a good adaptation of og LoL lore that players are familar with then haha 😅

Basically: I would hope the TV show for overwatch explores new lore, recontextualizes old lore in fun ways, and does not retcon large swaths of old lore when adding in new lore.

[brittle sky]

Ehhhhh I think loyalty to source material across medium in the name of 'brand integrity' is far more corrosive to a narrative than making it your own.

[shrewd pivot]

I disagree. For reboot based series like TMNT, it's great because it keeps up with modern tropes of what a "nerd" is that generation for each reboot.

For long ongoing stories like overwatch, people love the characters that haven't gotten proper lore explored yet, and it would suck if those characters were changed entirely in a reboot before the og characters ever got lore explored in the og.

We don't need overwatch aus right now, we need a solid lore foundation that is easy to digest, and a TV show is a great format for that.

After that foundation, then ow lore reboots and aus can happen to have an effective creative reimagining of og lore.

[brittle sky]

I mean, characters have gotten changed even in the context of the game lore. See the quiet recharacterizations in ow2, or corrections to timelines or events. I think that sure, Ow isn't such an explored story it must necessarily go retell a radically different version, but the idea that the point of an adaptation is merely to slavishly translate material to a new format is both futile and honestly makes for uninteresting art. What makes a good game narrative is not the same as what makes a good show narrative which is not the same as what makes a good book narrative. It should tell first and foremost a story that's good in its own right. How it connects to or represents overwatch should be secondary.

[shrewd pivot]

I disagree. Og overwatch is still telling its story, even with little retcons here or there. Ow1 was about Winston's recall, and 10 years later we are FINALLY seeing the recall in action fully with Vendetta's arc, after the canned PVE plotline failed to show the recall in action fully.

If a story isn't good in one medium, that story simply shouldn't be told in that medium. A good videogame to movie adaptation represents the core narrative purpose of the videogame's lore or general themes.

If the overwatch TV show isn't an optumistic future story using pulp fiction inspiration, that's not overwatch. If it's a grimdark scifi with no hope, that's not overwatch. If it ignores omnics lore worldbuilding to the point of retcon, it's not overwatch.

There's nothing wrong with reimaginings, I enjoy the star wars visions shorts as art that riff on star wars ip in a variety of ways, but that's not inherently /star wars/ lore if you get what I mean.

Overwatch has yet to have an easy to digest foundational tv series to assert easy to access ip lore identity. Once it has that, then we can talk aus.

[broken eagle]

Was there an update today or no?

[brittle sky]

yeah

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, Mizuki lore drop and reset in game

[brittle sky]

A story that is more concerned about telling itself than being a brand ambassador does not equal au. That's like saying andor is a bad star wars story because it approached the core themes and events of star wars from a different tone and perspective.

[gusty cloak]

how old is mizuki?? his demeanor and way of talking makes him look like 19 or 20

[brittle sky]

22

[shrewd pivot]

Andor was an exploration of genre, a similar divergence of genre from the og space opera star wars films as seen in other anthology series that were established prior. Andor wouldn't have been as impactful had it not been for the core media movies and anthology set ups of prior media.

It would be like making Starkiller the video game (Star wars the force unleashed) and then making Andor as the first tv show. Really jarring, not a good ip identy foundation set to create riffs on.

Andor gets to succeed as a fantastic addition to star wars, because star wars already had a solid easy to digest foundation in the public.

[gusty cloak]

did he grow up with kiriko?

hope not cuz thats another character that'll break the chronology

[shrewd pivot]

No, Mizuki's family died when he was 9, Mizuki was forced to work for Hashimoto bc of family debt

Kiriko’s dad was Mizuki's mentor and confidante because Kiriko’s dad was kidnapped by Hashimoto.

Mizuki and Kiriko did not grow up together.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/mizuki/

[gusty cloak]

ahh thanks

am i the only one who feels like releasing 5 heros at a time really undermined their individual lore and significance? like there's still storytimes and lore drops but i miss the big cinematics and impacts

[shrewd pivot]

Same. I miss hero origin shorts, like Sigma's origin short

I am happy for more lore tho

Just wish it got the same care as prior heroes

Thankfully there are text versions of the videos, which give more detail and seem to be the actual canon

The videoes often read differently, like Domina's video reads very differently from the text

[gusty cloak]

why did they ever stop those? Every hero should get one

i get that they stopped the big cinematics because the firing of the lore team and stuff, but short origin stories should be a standard

[shrewd pivot]

No idea. Illari was the last hero to get an origin short like that.

I really miss those animatics, the similar set up intro helped unify wildly different characters into one universe and gave overwatch a strong identity. Origin shorts were often paired with additional media like cinematics too (ie JunkerQueen, Kiriko, Sombra)

[gusty cloak]

also, when microsoft bought OW, they had a big layoff of the lore team right? what happened after that? did they hire more lore people?

[shrewd pivot]

Seems the team was replaced as far as I know

During Wuyang's creation time apparently

Also, Kid Mizuki is depicted with a human arm.

I presume this means Mizuki lost his arm when/after he was forced to join Hashimoto?

[peak escarp]

you mentioned that Mercy was made older to fit Torbjorn's lore - do you have a source for that? because she was always listed as 37 in OW1

[shrewd pivot]

The devs discussed aging up Mercy when making her to fit Torbjörn's lore. She wasn't aged up after ow1 or anything, pardon

It's like how DVA was aged up

[peak escarp]

source?

as far as I know, neither of them had their ages changed after their design was finalized

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's what I mean, originally younger but aged up to fit lore

[peak escarp]

there were concepts of a younger mech pilot, but none of them were D.va

[shrewd pivot]

I believe it was discussed in the talk that explained Torbjörn's arm retcon inconsistency?

[peak escarp]

not as far as I remember

[gusty cloak]

mizuki has a cyborg arm but doesnt have any interactions with sojourn?? thats so sad

[peak escarp]

that was the GDC 2017 talk Michael Chu did

[shrewd pivot]

There was something about Mercy being aged up to fit Torbjörn's lore.

Brigitte had a shift too

DVA was originally 16 in beta, right? But then aged to be 19?

[peak escarp]

Mercy's age isn't mentioned beyond her being a university student

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki is technically not a part of overwatch atm

[peak escarp]

D.Va's age was always 19

[mystic hazel]

NEED ONE PERSON FOR FIVE STACK GOLD-PLAT. support and pc eu

[gusty cloak]

#lfg-pc-eu-ranked

[peak escarp]

Brigitte's age was mistakenly posted as 28, before being corrected to 23 a few days later

the mistake was immediately noticed by Chu and he mentioned it on his twitter

[shrewd pivot]

Oh ok

I saw people saying that in overwatch beta hero ages were said by devs different than what they ended up being in ow1. Hm

[shrewd pivot]

It might have been a thing like a dev saying Freja was 28 prior to release, but the official was never 28

[peak escarp]

could be

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I remember that one

[peak escarp]

could also be misinformation spread by the community

like the myth that Lucio was originally Canadian

[shrewd pivot]

Hm ill have to check this

[cursive cape]

In the new mizuki lore video, "If the elders don't get me - if she doesn't get me -"
Do we know who 'she' is?

Or is that future foreshadowing.

[peak escarp]

the head of the Hashimoto

a shrewd woman with platinum hair

[shrewd pivot]

I need to find a source then bc idk haha

[peak escarp]

I've seen a lot of people say she was 16, but nobody ever has proof beyond "I just remembered it that way"

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. It's hard to get screencaps of an overwatch beta tbf

Maybe it's made up tho yeah

[peak escarp]

I don't think they had the lore in the game in the beta

[shrewd pivot]

Ah okay. Then ig it could have been a dev statement? Which then lines up with a situation similar to dev saying Freja being 28 prior to Freja release. Or it's just made up completely

[shrewd pivot]

I'm unable to access wayback machine on my phone atm, pardon. If someone could peep the wayback machine that would be helpful

[valid jolt]

guys kiriko knows mizuki has contacts with her father, in this weeks overwatch team, kiriko says "i know dad's work when i see it."

[brittle sky]

references hashimoto goons with it, but does mean it's quite possible she could realize that.

[livid girder]

https://www.tumblr.com/gautiersylvain/810039748458627073/i-made-this-for-myself-to-keep-all-50-playable

you must fix your heart

i made this for myself to keep all 50 playable characters' current allegiances straight and also because i'm mentally ill. click on each image to enlarge it and read the text more easily 🫡

-# #overwatch #i was listening to character interactions the other day and was like wdym juno is part of overwatch?? #and then this happened #apologies for any errors i did my best #oh i just noticed i spelled hashimoto wrong oopsie

Tumblr · Mar 3, 2026, 5:01 AM

[shrewd pivot]

Would be very in character for Kiriko to know, but not tell Mizuki so that there's an inevitable "Kiriko... I have to tell you the truth..." from Mizuki moment, and Kiriko is all "Yeah dude, I know. We all know lol." or something lmafo. Get pranked Hashimoto spy

[latent lark]

if mizuki presumably joins overwatch . . .

theres a high chance Kiriko will too

[brittle sky]

I don't think mizuki inherently joins ow just because his likely defection means he got lined up with their side.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's hard to say what will exactly happen tho. I feel like overwatch could protect Mizuki better from the Hashimoto/Talon if he joined overwatch. At the same time, he might just join the Yōkai gang only

And since Winston was sending out offers to new recruits like Wuyang and Anran, Genji might ask Hanzo and Kiriko to help fight against Talon's influence

[mellow igloo]

overwatch lore seems very messy tbh

[dense garnet]

Doomfist still holds my favorite voice line in the game

"Why did the chicken cross the road?"

"Because to stagnate, is to die."

[green vine]

It wasnt at one point, now its a bit shite

[mellow igloo]

well widowmakers lore is confusing

omnic lore is confusing

[green vine]

Widow killed her husband and now has her heartbeat so slow it turned her skin blue and she became emotionless over time as wlel

[mellow igloo]

yeah

[green vine]

The omnics are a whole other thing tbh

[mellow igloo]

I get all that

but it was said she was brainwashed?

So why would she leave Talon

[green vine]

Because vendetta a lil bitch

Literally faced the one of the strongest characters in lore and won

Only person stronger than doom at this point is like sigma (no glaze deadass)

Yeah idk why she left, same goes for sombra and reaper, they just left as well iirc

[mellow igloo]

[mellow igloo]

yeah

honestly the writing currently has been very shit

ever since the kiriko incident its been downhill

[green vine]

Im not surprised, if you look back at the old animations and stuff it used to be peak

Even the hero trailers had hella effort put into them

But they decided to give it up with the release of OW2

[mellow igloo]

yeah didnt they layoff a bunch of employees tho?

[green vine]

Yes they did

And change of ceo and stuff

[mellow igloo]

that seems to be what caused the huge issue

yep

im hoping they make a comeback idk

blizzard needs to lock tf in

[brittle sky]

I mean Sombra and reaper both make sense. Sombra values a long leash to do her conspiracy hunting, not follow along for a cobra commander attempt at world conquest. Reaper would have been executed on the spot given he capped venny's papa. Widow it's less clear but she seems to be taking the chance to slip out the structure and because she's skeptical of vendetta's leadership, which is very "do what I say all the time or else this is my show"

It's just as much a matter of people who stayed had reason as it was the leavers had a reason to go.

[dense garnet]

Widow feels conflicting to me

She says that she respected Vendetta for taking action immediately against her enemies, but she also says "I know a sinking ship when I see one"

[brittle sky]

Just because she prefers action to apparent action doesn't mean that action is in a good direction.

[dense garnet]

I think that Widow thinks what Vendetta does is good for Talon. It's just that she doesn't think Vendetta is an actually good leader

So she's gonna eventually run it down due to mismanaging her connections

Aka people are not gonna respect her as much as they did Akande

Besides Domina because they're secretly dating but shhh

[wise grotto]

Orisa Winston can beat doom without it having been a deadline to write fight
and Mauga can bring him to a draw

We don’t know if sigma can actually do hugely powerful stuff as much as he is this hugely powerful being having 0 true control is still having 0 control

[brittle sky]

I mean I don't think "I will leave you holding the bag as soon as you mess up" feels like respecting her

[blazing badge]

Does widow even care for Talon or is she there because she wants something out of it

Like Sombra

[dense garnet]

I think she genuinely respected Akande, and Akande basically let his agents do what they wanted for the most part

Widowmaker most likely enjoyed that freedom especially since the freedom she didn't have was likely due to Moira's experiments

With Vendetta taking over, Moira would most like be performing more experiments on Laxroix by Vendetta's orders to make her as effective an assassin

So in short, she cared for Akande's leadership specifically

[ripe cloud]

[dry pebble]

Widow left the Talon tho

[dense garnet]

Yes, that's why I said she left

She want nun of that

[dry pebble]

Oh wait sorry i comprehend that completely wrong

My fault

I ignored the "would"

[azure flint]

god damn that mizuki lore vid

hearing the dragons music again hit hard

[viral pilot]

Yeah it made me watch dragons again 😅

[shrewd pivot]

Widowmaker relied on Talon to get 'drug formulations' to keep her sharp and to suppress bad memories. It says in Widowmaker's bio she left to get out of Moira's grasp

Also i looked through DnD subclasses and lmafo

Ramattra is a DnD astral monk class, straight up, he just uses nanites instead of an astral body.
https://dnd5e.wikidot.com/monk:astral-self
Ramattra also believes the body is a shell as stated in the reconciliation comic

So ig Ramattra isn't all that "necromancer" actually. Atleast not anymore, bc the PVE enemy unit he was based on summoned units. I would still argue Ramattra has 'necromancy' aspects like his use of warbots and the idea of a revival of his people tho

I should make a chart of how close overwatch characters get to DnD and WoW classes

[dry pebble]

This is interesting cause this also applies Zen is spirit

[shrewd pivot]

I see it more as Zenyatta being a take on DnD "Monk: Way of Mercy" https://dnd5e.wikidot.com/monk:mercy

I need to refresh my knowledge of WoW

Bc Brigitte is basically a WoW holy paladin but scifi, and Mercy is basically a WoW Holy Priest but scifi

[dry pebble]

Torbjorn is Wow Blacksmith Dwarf!

[dry pebble]

My favorite gotta be Lucio cause he is stated to be sci fi Bard

And he is the one whose distincing itself from the general look of what he is based off compared to other fantasy sci-fied characters

[shrewd pivot]

Stated where? :o unless you mean his DnD-themed skin as a bard.

I call Lúcio a "scifi bard" but that's bc its a description, sorry if that came off wrong before!

But yeah I enjoy Lúcio’s scifi take on the bard class a lot :)

[dry pebble]

In the Art of OW, it is said that Lucio born from the team trying to make up for what a sci fi bard would be like

So yeah Lucio supposed to be Bard of OW's Fantasy setting

[shrewd pivot]

Oh! Sweet ill have to reread that to refresh, ty for the source :)

[past copper]

Kidurarara really did Mizuki justice with the aura farming

Love to see Mizuki make an entrance like this when meeting Kiriko and Yokai

That being said, wouldn't Kiriko and Hanzo find it suspicious that Mizuki has a weapon specifically forged by her father?

One that actually works compared to the weapons the rest of the Hashimoto use?

[elfin bane]

oh i didn’t know mizuki was mixed until the comic

what’s this curse tho

[peak escarp]

he believes his family is cursed because all of his family members have died unfortunate deaths

[brittle sky]

Yeah, seem likely to be a series of random misfortunes catastrophized into a pattern that now has become self fulfilling in the pressure it puts on the folks involved.

[peak escarp]

they know that Kiriko's father is held captive by the Hashimoto and forced to make weapons for them, so I would asuume that would make them automatically assume he was with the Hashimoto

[remote wing]

is the idea that reaper is a cloud of nanobots canon?

[flint thicket]

Like I said, I feel the Hashimoto has something to do with those unfortunate deaths.

[peak escarp]

no

he's a cloud of cells

[brittle sky]

Flesh nanites

[brittle sky]

Honestly less interesting than if they just... Had bad luck. Overcoming the notion of a curse and learning to hope when you know misfortune is in some way inevitable is a more interesting arc than "the bad guys are behind every bad thing in my life"

[past copper]

They would assume that. But I'd believe they would be more suspicious of him not only being affiliated with the Hashimoto

But also be able to actually use the weapon. Something the other Hashimoto have proven incapable of

[brittle sky]

I mean they have some. We saw them show off in the vendetta comic at the start of the season. They're just not good weapons so don't do much.

[past copper]

My point exactly. They're not good at using them. Which begs the question how Mizuki is. We can only assume things for now

At least until we get more depth on Mizuki

[past copper]

Also. Idea for a collab. Overwatch x Dandadan

Mizuki's story got me thinking that since he was talking about curse on his family since he was a kid

[brittle sky]

Man, I wish overwatch let its younger cast be as deranged as dandandan

[carmine pasture]

Do you guys think Doomfist will come back/

They can't just kill him off like that right?

That would be so anticlimactic considering all the buildup they've done around his character since his release

[median orchid]

He will defo 100% come back. Its teased that Doomfist may be getting a appearance in this years Blizzcon and all ...

Besides all that yeah they gotta bring the GOAT back.

[green vine]

He aint dying to vendetta unless they retcon him

[rare trail]

did the awakening affect all omnics equally? it seems like bastions description implies that bastion units were less receptive towards it

One unique Bastion unit, severely damaged in the final battles of the war, was left forgotten for over a decade. He lay dormant, exposed to the elements and rusting while nature slowly reclaimed him. Overgrown with vines and roots and nested upon by small animals, the robot sat inert, seemingly unaware of the passing of time. That was until one fateful day, when he unexpectedly reactivated. With his combat programming all but lost, he instead displayed an intense curiosity about the natural world and its inhabitants. This inquisitive Bastion unit set out to explore his surroundings and discover his purpose on a war-ravaged planet.

his bio doesnt even mention the awakening, which feels weird

it almost implies hes like that just because he was damaged and the awakening doesnt have anyhting to do with it, but also it likely was written before they had that all figured out

Torbjörn freed Bastion from much of his wartime programming and conducted major repairs on several of Bastion’s decades-old, crumbling systems.

[keen summit]

Yknow, its a little annoying when people do a post in ows reddit about "who would be the scariest to fight 1v1" and its all misinformed people

Like alot of the cast would either kill you quickly or would allow you to surrender

[pseudo iron]

it's probably a plothole no one in the lore team has noticed yet

[green vine]

Wouldnt surprise me

[granite vortex]

guys since widow left where do u think she’s going also she’s getting her emotions back

[keen summit]

Sigh

[green vine]

She’s just vibing with reaper and sombra rn

[keen summit]

My guess is she'll eventually meet illari, she'll regress while illari sees what it can do with someone

[green vine]

He’s not wrong tho, no need for the “Lol ArE you nEw to ThE FranChisE” tho

[granite vortex]

I still want her to be the emotionless assassin

[keen summit]

... Dude

No offense

But hes wrong about everything

Shimada was genji and hanzos clan

[green vine]

Oh yeah shit

Mb

[keen summit]

Yea

[green vine]

Im fkn braindead lmao

[keen summit]

Hence why i found it funny

[green vine]

Yeah no wtf

Damn im a dumbass mb

Love new lore enthusiasts

Ngl the genji/hanzo animatic is still one of the greatest things ever made

[grave saddle]

Bastion and the assassination cinematic are the GOATs

[abstract vapor]

holy prediction

[carmine iris]

what does hanzo do nowadays

[keen summit]

Help kiriko

[grand wedge]

He is hanging out with Kiriko yeah

[willow rose]

Do we know what happend to zen

[wise grotto]

K kinda wanna tell the op of this comment how dumb he is can I

[faint lantern]

anyone feel like explaining specifically the relation between freja and emre

or where I can find it

like why does she gaf about him and his evil finnish ai basically

[willow rose]

They are old overwatch mates

But freja en emre are besicly really close

Freja even whent to emres home to meet up with his parents

[brittle sky]

its portrayed mostly in the freja origin comic (https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/freja-comic/), the comic search and destroy (https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/search-and-destroy/), and the min story another life (https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/another-life/)

close with one another from ow days, with at least some romantic coding

[faint lantern]

I'll check em out, thanks boss

[flint thicket]

I have a feeling she might have all her sanity gone.

[civic lynx]

I don’t think it’s possible to get them entirely back tbh 😭

[fierce tangle]

yo guys do you guys know about the viper and chamber lore

holy overwatch

[civic lynx]

They might be able to partially restore her emotions but I think moira would’ve made sure it’s impossible to ever regain it fully

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear if every omnic with the needed hardware was impacted equally or not. Bastion apparently didn't have the expected hardware needed, but still was awakened with Aurora gifted sapience

[lilac musk]

So Blackwatch is not Talon...? What is Talon?!

[mellow igloo]

whats with the division between overwatch and talon

[mellow igloo]

do you not have access to google? 😭

like

theres an entire wiki for overwatch that explains alot about the game including lore

[lilac musk]

Google is too expensive where I live. 😔

[mellow igloo]

oh seriously?

wdym google is too expensive??

isnt it free

[brittle sky]

a very possible read is that warbots at the time were awakened, and humans just didn't recognize it because their emergent cognition and behavior was different, and/or they had more influence from anubis left

[civic lynx]

Talon is the main enemy faction in OW’s universe, they’re a terrorist organisation
Blackwatch was part of the original ow when it was led by soldier that did operations the public (and the government) would not approve of and most of the time were illegal

[brittle sky]

Talon is a crime organization that serves as a mercenary group and terror organization. Its goals vary depending on who controls it - some have treated it as a mafia for profit, while others have specific ends to which they are using Talon.

[edgy tree]

Blackwatch was also led by Reaper who got Moira(which he most likely regrets) and forced Cassidy to join

After some time Reaper did an oopsie and killed the old leader of Talon which caused a domino effect that ended up with him joining talon and leaving it as the dauther of the old boss took over since he knew she knew he killed her dad and was fearfull for his life

[stark folio]

Mizuki is the first genuinely magical character?

[brittle sky]

(we don't even have more than an implication that Antonio was the 'leader' of talon - talon has always had more a hegemon than hierarchal leader, and the only evidence to the contrary is vendetta's rather slanted characterization of her famly legacy)

[brittle sky]

by all accounts his abilities seem to come from anima weaponry provided by toshiro, however that works. So he's only as 'magical' as you interpret hanzo and genji to be, and less so than kiriko, potentially

[edgy tree]

He did seem like a high play character in that Organization though

since him being gone allowed Doom and Max to rise up in position to where they were

[brittle sky]

He was important, but that doesn't quite mean to be the leader. Doom did come to power after his fall, but specifically by overthrowing his own mentor, Doomfist II

[edgy tree]

Kiriko can teleport though walls to people without placing anything on them and heal with paper so I'd say she's more magical

[edgy tree]

Oh yeah old Talon was more like a council kinda thing you could honestly say the same with how it was when Doom was in power

[brittle sky]

very much so. He seemed to actively encourage that. Bit of a disappointment that recent lore seems to simplify it (functionally, though max does pay lip service otherwise in vested interest) to 'doom is in charge', and the vendetta takeover just makes it a simply hierarchal org with venny as cobra commander.

[edgy tree]

Anima weapons seem to use a sort of "ethereal energy" to do their thing so it seems like Spirits are a thing in Overwatch esp when you look at Kiriko's fox just appearing out of her hands

which she had to Tame at first which would be weird for a tech fox

[shrewd pivot]

I would hope Anima tech isn't spirits/magic. That would just be magepunk atp

Overwatch has the rule of what appears like magic is just advanced technology.

[edgy tree]

Vendetta was the one that basically forced everyone to be under her even if it's just pretend (most likely for Max let's be honest)

[edgy tree]

Yeah honestly I hope they try to explain what that energy is exactly because we don't really have much to go off besides that one comic

[shrewd pivot]

No, as his weapon is explained by Anima technology weapons gifted to him by Kiriko’s dad.

Kiriko would be more "magical" than Mizuki if anything

[shrewd pivot]

I'd be fine if it was explained with some superhero scifi-psionics like how Sigma and Tracer are

[brittle sky]

Max's immediate buyer's remorse in the comic is very funny. But yeah even the folks that stick around seem to be 'well it's not impacting me too much yet, so I'll play along for fun and/or profit'

[edgy tree]

Though it would still be kinda hard to excuse the seemingly living fox spirit

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the kitsune (ai possibly...?) seems to have some kind of personality, while the dragons seem to be completely ornamental tech weapons

[edgy tree]

He did get a giant af blade pointed at his neck so uknow

I feel like anyone would panic at that moment

[brittle sky]

I mean the prose version makes it seem very possible he planned to get the sword pointed at him, and this was less panic and more 'my pawn against doomfist showed up and I just got to feed her what she wants, as I planned'

[edgy tree]

But yeah Moira keeps doing her experiments,Mauga quite literally does not give a f about what she says,Emre and Freja are doin their own quest,Domina was blackmailed whatever Hierarchy that she thinks there is is basically not respected by anyone

[edgy tree]

oh right forgot about the text

He did seem more chill there

[brittle sky]

I mean in the comic itself vendetta scoffs at earning respect and loyalty. 'that idiot, building alliances as opposed to exploiting them'

[edgy tree]

Ig that's why conquest will end so soon xd

[shrewd pivot]

I do think it's hysterical outside context tho with how Kiriko’s dad makes Anima tech.

Mizuki is forced into labor by the Hashimoto and lost his arm, and Kiriko’s dad is like... 'hmmmm.... you remind me of a Kappa, have this Kappa themed weaponry.'
(mythos being that the Kappa gets it's arm cut off, then is indebted to labor or providing medicine)

Like, dude he lost his arm why did he have to do Mizuki dirty like that lmafo

In context, it reads fine ofc, it's just kinda hilarious from Mizuki POV

[edgy tree]

I find it funny how he still went all out with the Kappa look even though he doesn't like them from what we heard in the Lucio interraction

[sullen girder]

Question, you know how vendetta defeated doom and took over talon? I was looking at mercy’s talon skin and it got me thinking, who would defeat mercy and take over talon in the mirrorwatch universe? You know cause mercy leads talon in that universe

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. Honestly Mizuki's story fits a Nekomata mythos more with the black cat, bad luck, and spying

[shrewd pivot]

Good point. Ig it would be an unknown suddenly rising to the ranks...?

[edgy tree]

how about Reapers kid

[shrewd pivot]

Good point lol

[edgy tree]

Tracer could be the one to take Reapear out in that story before going to Talon

[sullen girder]

Hmm, are you suggesting that would be vendetta’s dad in that universe?

[shrewd pivot]

As in: Reaper and Reaper's kid in mirrorverse, would be to Antonio and Vendetta in canon

[edgy tree]

Vendetta woudn't be the child of a member of Talon in that universe

[sullen girder]

I said vendetta’s dad cause I don’t remember the guys name, sorry if that was confusing

[edgy tree]

Antonio

[shrewd pivot]

Antonio is Vendetta's father

[sullen girder]

Ok got it, got it

[brittle sky]

the point of divergence is kinda hard to tell between the two alternative universes, right?

[shrewd pivot]

I think it's just a general swapped sides between Overwatch and Talon in mirrorverse

[edgy tree]

There's mostly swapping involved

like how ana was the one Taken by talon to kill her husband and shoot Widow in the eye

[sullen girder]

Some parts of mirrorwatch kinda confuses me, like why is genji a junker?

[brittle sky]

do we know she had a sleeper agent arc?

[edgy tree]

most likely since she was a member of Overwatch just like Widow kinda

[shrewd pivot]

Because Genji wouldn't be a cyborg otherwise haha, the only other cyborgy faction at the time were the Junkers

[brittle sky]

but they do seek explanations for at least some of them - ie, tracer gets messed up by time stuff.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's just swapped sides, but core aspects of the character remain. Like Amelie stays a sniper. Genji a cyborg. Tracer timey whimey accident

RIP Mirrorverse Ramattra

[edgy tree]

a lot of the characters have a similar beggining to the lore

[sullen girder]

Hmm I just thought of something. Let’s say if Winston and Hammond switched places, would that mean Winston is the junker in this universe? And who would be the ruler of junkertown? I was gonna say Winston but probably not

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I would assume Winston is a Junker, and Hammond is overwatch...? That, or Hammond is Talon.

[nocturne flint]

The most underrated lore gotta be Junker Queens

[edgy tree]

Tracer was still a pilot that got helped by an alternative to Winston then got experimented on like how Reaper was

which is the reason she has the self heal on shoot thing

[sullen girder]

Yeah probably, they definitely come from the same place

[shrewd pivot]

Vishkar Lúcio was considered as a skin iirc

[edgy tree]

It should've been a thing man.....

[sullen girder]

I brought up this topic last year but I may as well bring it up again, who would be in the blackwatch team in the universe

[sullen girder]

Oh yeah definitely

[edgy tree]

Tracer 100%

Ashe maybe?

[sullen girder]

Oh I could definitely see her being part of ow back then and now

[shrewd pivot]

Sombra taking Reyes place for Blackwatch leader? I mean she's a hacker still but I assume still chasing the eye conspiracy, so that's a bit more morally grey

And yeah Ashe would probably swap with Cassidy somehow, woth Ashe as a blackwatch member instead

[edgy tree]

Sombra is a member of Overwatch

Agent colomar

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah im talking blackwatch, pardon

[edgy tree]

yeah I'm saying she's in Overwatch activly during mirrorwatch so she didn't take his place

It could've been tracer tbh

[sullen girder]

This discussion really got me thinking hoping that they would do a part 2 of mirrorwatch, like bro their is so much stuff they should’ve done in part 1

[edgy tree]

since she's not in overwatch and was experimented on

who would be the replacement for Genji though?

[edgy tree]

I do NOT miss Widow with a shield

[sullen girder]

I would say hanzo but he has a hashimoto skin so probably not

[edgy tree]

• genji is a junker there

[shrewd pivot]

We def need a part two.

Helix Hazard and Vishkar Lúcio

[sullen girder]

Yeah I never really saw the point in that, especially a short one

[edgy tree]

It will most likely be a member of hashimoto though

[sullen girder]

Helix?

[shrewd pivot]

I assumed for mirrorverse, Doomfist took Soldier76 role, Widowmaker Ana or Tracer role, and Sombra was still pursuing the eye conspiracy?

[sullen girder]

Oh I just thought of something, junker domina. Don’t know if that would fit? I mean no junker I’ve seen never really floats in the air like her

[shrewd pivot]

Phreaks and Helix beef. Helix is the global security thst corrupted into 'army for hire' that Pharah was apart of before joining overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

Omg Domina and JunkerQueen swap? Lmafo??

[edgy tree]

Sombra didn't see the eye conspiracy in mirrorwatch

she has no idea it's a thing which was her motivation for "knowledge = power"

[sullen girder]

Ah I see. Maybe in this universe, hazard wouldn’t hate ow as well

[shrewd pivot]

OH. ok mbmb

[edgy tree]

Yeah in that lore she didn't look deep enough to get THEIR eye on her

[shrewd pivot]

Constants for all timelines: Ramattra suffers, Hazard hates overwatch /j

[shrewd pivot]

Huh. So what does that make Emre then?

[sullen girder]

Hmm, what about for juno, where would she be in mirrorwatch, assuming she still goes to earth

[edgy tree]

hard to say Ramattra suffers when Tracer killed his ahh

(he was Mondatta)

[sullen girder]

Yup… ram definitely suffered in mirrorwatch

[shrewd pivot]

That's exactly what I mean, vro is getting doomed by the narrative in both timelines LOL, there's no timeline free from suffering for him

[edgy tree]

Baptiste?

[sullen girder]

Like would she joined talon against her will? Maybe become a junker?

[edgy tree]

Juno champion of the junkers dx

[shrewd pivot]

Depends what Lucheng even is.

If Lucheng are good guys, then Juno is probably happy on mars with her family lol

Or possibly a Juno Talon member if Mei is Talon?

[edgy tree]

she's most likely happy on Mars if we swap that company around

[sullen girder]

If Mei was still alive… don’t forget she was the only survivor in that whole thing back in that base

[edgy tree]

Reaper calls it out they were also behind the lunar colony

[shrewd pivot]

RIP Mei AND Ramattra then, dang

[edgy tree]

oh wait

if they're good the lunar colony woudn't even make the experiments that Created Hammond and Winston

so they don't exist in Mirrorwatch

[shrewd pivot]

If that was the logic case for mirrorverse, then Genji wouldn't exist as a cyborg, but he does

Mizuki is Shimada clan ig lol, or Yōkai gang

[edgy tree]

could be that Mercy fixed him up but he left Talon in search of purpose

since Genji WOULD be a Talon member there

[sullen girder]

Plus the devs did mention that if they ever did do a part 2, junker Winston and viskhar lucio is definitely on the table

[edgy tree]

He betrays the Yokai to join Talon ig

[shrewd pivot]

Mirrorverse Freja gets the mainline Baptiste treatment ig

[edgy tree]

Then Ig the swap only counts for the people in the groups we know

if Junker Winston will be a thing

[sullen girder]

Oh oh, what about mauga?

[edgy tree]

that would be Emre

[shrewd pivot]

Symmetra junker is mirrorverse right?

[sullen girder]

Yeah

[shrewd pivot]

Mirrorverse Mauga might be the Reinhardt of overwatch ig

[sullen girder]

Oh GAWD ID LOVE TO SEE THAT

[edgy tree]

Emre leaves talon to join overwatch like normal Bap but Bap seeing how corrupted ow is leaves and gets controlled by smth

[shrewd pivot]

Interesting!

Mirrorverse Jetpack cat is junkers or Talon ig? Lol Talon probably bc of Brigitte

[edgy tree]

Brig still loves cats in Mirrorwatch so most likely Talon

[shrewd pivot]

Mirrorverse Wuyang and Anran might side with Talon then ig

[edgy tree]

If they make a Soldier skin for Mirrorwatch I hope they make him a cyborg ngl

Mercy be about them cybernetics

[shrewd pivot]

Or swap Soldier76 with Reyes? Soldier76 gets the misty treatment

[edgy meadow]

watched the mizuki thing yesterday

again about what i expected

mizuki is a cool character

[edgy tree]

Though now that I look at the Junker Genji

it seems like his face is normal

could be that he's just wearing a mask looking at the straps

[sullen girder]

Hmm, what about junkrat and roadhog? Didn’t realized they’d be in that universe, and we were talking about junkers left and right

[shrewd pivot]

....phreaks?

[sullen girder]

… yeah I could definitely see that. Definitely could see them in phreaks clothing

[edgy tree]

Honestly looking at the junker lineup what if it resided closer to India?

[digital linden]

vishkar junkrat lol

[edgy tree]

Genji did make his way to Suravasa in the lore so him getting inspired by Junkers would make some sense that way

[sullen girder]

Idk, I mean I feel like junkrat could still act wild and insane in mirrorwatch

[shrewd pivot]

Oh. Oh that's. Bc yeah we hadn't seen any Australian characters right

India being madmax in mirrorverse would be a wild change tbh

[edgy tree]

would explain Sym being a Junker somewhat

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

[fossil wren]

I think the devs said Winston would be a junker in Mirrorwatch

So prob talon

[shrewd pivot]

Mirrorverse Domina and JunkerQueen swap lol

[edgy meadow]

would that make hamster an ow member

[shrewd pivot]

Assumingly so

Maybe Lifeweaver works at Oasis and Moira works at Atlantic Arcology in mirrorverse...?

[fossil wren]

Which is funny because would mean that even though Brigitte is evil on mirrorwatch, she still pursued her dream of giving a jetpack to a damn cat

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah lmafo

[edgy meadow]

jpc is a canon event

[edgy tree]

She still do be loving them Cats

[digital linden]

i honestly would love junker moira

[shrewd pivot]

My guess for mirrorverse lol

[young dragon]

Junkrat strikes me as a Mirrorwatch Vishkar employee.

I’d imagine that the Australian Outback never gets decimated by the Omnium factory meltdown, Omnics are never given land there, and Vishkar seizes it as a prime location to establish their own factories.

[edgy tree]

Oh yeah and Roadhog would still uknow... have a family

[native agate]

We need more info about Hanzo . Wtf is he even doing ?

[wise grotto]

Helping kiriko rn

[nova oracle]

a

[digital linden]

phreak junkrat is literally just his mythic

[brittle sky]

Especially once we get around to 2nd wave mythics for more, a dota persona level deal would be cool (you'd need to find ways to make silhouette and barks read similar of course, or at least within the same range as a normal legendary, buuuuuut that's doable)

[green vine]

Junkrat would end up a vishkar employee

[grave saddle]

What if sombra and Emre switched. Still be aligned to overwatch, but their actual “roles” switch

Sombra was a member of talon but left and has been taken by the conspiracy and controlled with a different god ai who now directs her to work with overwatch. Emre was a kid who stumbled upon the conspiracy (not necessarily hacking) and has been hunting them since

[remote wing]

which characters explicitly have super powers? i can only think of sigma, soilder, tracer, moira,hazard and reaper

do anran and wuyang have powers?

[brittle sky]

Theirs comes from tech.

Winston, mauga, and Hammond have biologies and capabilities distinctly beyond their norm.

[remote wing]

i’m not sure if the two hearts thing counts as a super power but maybe

[brittle sky]

It is what led to his gigantism

[fathom grove]

This makes me wanna see more mirrorwatch so bad

[past copper]

Speaking on that. What up with Zarya stuff?

Is she getting a New Era skin from the shop?

[peak escarp]

there was a Twitch drop during the Spotlight

it'll probably reappear in loot boxes eventually

[bronze loom]

So does Mauga have 2 hearts or is that just a joke line?

[past copper]

He has two hearts

While undergoing surgery after nearly being killed in a fire fight, they implemented what is more or less a second artificial heart to save his life

[acoustic ice]

i hope to god talon doesn't win week 5
if vendetta's gonna be the feature of week 5, i hope anran is somehow more popular than her

[brittle sky]

They unveil anran's new face then

[acoustic ice]

i better not see echo fall into the hands of talon

[brittle sky]

Why would that be the thing that is suddenly a canon reflection of gameplay?

[acoustic ice]

well it s what i've heard from the announcements

like "the decisions the community makes will affect the lore" or something

[peak escarp]

I don't think they're going to change the lore based on which side wins more weeks

especially since a lot of the lore has to be made weeks/months in advance to pass through layers of approval

[acoustic ice]

i'm very sure they approved lore for both circumstances in advance

[heady wigeon]

Greeting and salutations my compadres. There has been 4 questions nagging my mind recently, and I would love to pick your brains about it.

During Winston’s lore we find out the gorillas revolted and killed the head scientist in charge of the lunar colony. However, I must ask…why did they revolt? It may have something to do with the gene therapy that was happening to the gorillas. But if so…then why do those same gorillas preserve the lunar colony years after the lead scientist died?

Neither Winston nor Hammond know where the others on the colony are. We know they are still on the colony…but is there a way they can get in touch with the colony or no?

Last question, I promise. Is there anyway for the lunar colony to be returned into the main fold of the overwatch world? Perhaps not now…but at some point down the road. How, I must ask.

[brittle sky]

Okay, so going off thoughtless gods, the Hammond short story, we get a sense that while Winston, being seen as both the most gifted of the lunar apes and something of an outcast, had a very good relationship with Harold Winston, the norm was more adversarial, even something you could consider abusive. While the scientists weren't all jerks, the colony was run by lucheng interstellar, which is very much not an ethical company.

As best we could tell, the apes revolted because they felt mistreated, and were basically a bunch of five hundred pound teenagers with no legal rights and gorilla strength.

Presumably they retained the colony because the colony was their way of surviving. On earth they would have to deal with humans, but keeping the colony base habitable meant they could live on their own.

While presumably there are old comm systems that could get in touch with the other lucheng apes, they don't seem particularly interested in contact with the outside world. So it's likely less they can't contact the apes, and more they don't want to be contacted.

Finally, do you mean for the lunar base to come back under the control of humans, or for the other lucheng apes to reenter the story?

[bold fern]

do you think domina's insecurity will lead to her downfall?

[civic lynx]

I think it’s mainly coming from how they describe the conquest event as a new era for lore and the actions players make will leave an impact on the world (I have sent this before and assumed it was hinting at echo’s skin being canon/a lore setup)

[heady wigeon]

Thank you so much for all this info! I did find it very intriguing that we mostly heard how the colony was good to Winston—just Winston thought . Otherwise, from what was implied, it also seems to be quite abusive. Does that mean Hammond was abused as well…or does his resentment of the place mainly steam from Winston’s escape and leaving him behind? Will have to read it on my own time!

As for the lunar base coming back under control—I meant in terms of it being used again or talked about again in a major way in the story. I was thinking perhaps Ramattra would try and pull a Magneto since Vendetta and Overwatch are currently going at it.

He even says in one of his voice lines that he leaves the senseless violence to humans. And his forces are still together, just absent even though they could’ve won. I think he would see the destruction caused by both sides and decide to leave the planet. And get his own version of astroid M. Which could be the lunar colony.

As for how he could do this, I’m not sure. But I’d imagine it’s something he is capable of doing.

I would be excited to see other apes in the story again though! Especially this female one Winston keeps talking about.

[round bramble]

Jetpack Cat is a skinwalker

[brittle sky]

Hammond saw it as mostly abusive, though he both was often an escapee in the walls and is on the record as preferring having the advanced intellect to being a normal hamster, even with the experiments.

As for plot relevance, the apes themselves might reappear. As you mentioned, we do have a teased named ape emphasized in a Winston/wb interaction in hypatia, who Winston seems fond of, wb does not, and is listed as one of the troublemakers.

[brittle sky]

No, she flies around mostly.

[wild lava]

I hope overwatch see's this give hanzo a second version a sword version of him and then allow people to choose between the bow version or the sword version this would be cool and really different I don't see any shooter do this plus we always hear how hanzo is better with a sword than a bow make a story arc for him where he learns to get over his past and finally picks up his sword again and this would be cool as hell

[brittle sky]

I mean a few marvel rivals characters do that effectively.

[heady wigeon]

Do you think Null sector could take over the lunar station? And I need to see exactly how long ago that dialogue between Hammond and Winston was. Because we now know that the story is shifting gears into Talon’s favor.

[wild lava]

Are you referring to my post to someone else's?

[brittle sky]

Yours. Sword vs. not sword mode on characters.

[brittle sky]

Don't see much use for that. NS seems secure wherever they are rn, and Ram genuinely seems to regard himself as having no fight with non-humans.

[wild lava]

Deedpool?

Blade to I guess

[brittle sky]

Black Widow too, though it's smacky, not slashey

[wild lava]

I mean in a sense of having like the best version of him and then the sword version having completely different abilities I don't mean one character that can do both

[heady wigeon]

Yes, his behavior would suggest that. Anyways, thanks for answering my questions! I really hope we see more Winston stuff in the lore—although he is active but more in a recruiter role right now.

I’ll probably have other questions, since I will return to the game on Saturday. Can’t wait to get back in on everything!

[wild lava]

Like the 3 deadpool except the abilities are completely different and

[wild lava]

I would love to see some Winston lore there he creates a new weapon and or armor or something for himself and upgrades the team as we'll over time it would be cool to see characters getting new abilities and upgrades with the lore as it's happening

[heady wigeon]

Yeah. I think what would be really insane is that everyone gets updated to show the passage of time. I mean—Doomfist is getting a whole beard in one of the new Overwatch games coming out right now.

I always saw Overwatch as more story focus than say Rivals. So say if Winston got injured badly, perhaps that’s a skin. Or something else happens there might be a re—design. I don’t know about abilities tho

[shrewd pivot]

Ow 1 to ow2 designs showed some time passing!
and it ...seems the new overwatch skins and Talon skins are canon? Genji now shows his full face, etc

I would bet Doomfist gets a lore skin coming up : )

[heady wigeon]

What?! What Genji skin is that?

Doomfist lore skin will probably be a better gauntlet and a beard. But who would he train with to get stronger? To test out his new enhancements?

[shrewd pivot]

Newest line of skins, some for overwatch, some for Talon

[heady wigeon]

Dang! His face finally healed after years of being damaged. Also ditched green for blue? I guess that’s cause it’s overwatch color scheme as of now?

[shrewd pivot]

Unsure who Doomfist would train with.

After the fight with Vendetta, Akande does not have access to the doomfist gauntlet. Akande would need to steal it back or create a new doomfist gauntlet somehow.

[shrewd pivot]

It's overwatch colors for the blue, yep!

[heady wigeon]

The tech to do it is certainly possible. But we don’t know much about the configuration of the gauntlet? It’s a powerful item with potentially an even more powerful origin story

[shrewd pivot]

It was never clear where the doomfist gauntlet originated from. It could have been tech passed down through generations or invented by the first "Doomfist" person

[heady wigeon]

Every member got the blue remodeling? I don’t think I’d take Winston seriously if he just colored himself blue haha!

[heady wigeon]

Interesting. If anyone were to know…it’s probably Sombra

[shrewd pivot]

There's also a blue Zarya skin for overwatch

[heady wigeon]

Has Moria hit the gym or something? She looks more buff than before.

[shrewd pivot]

I personally think Zarya's hair looks better with a full fun color... like neon blue or neon orange could have worked imo

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, she's just made to wear a... (rather ooc style for Moira imo) gladiator skin to fit Vendetta's new Talon. Moira doesn't have any abs or anything, it's these odd sticker designs on her belly lol

[heady wigeon]

Cool. Speaking of characters, who do you play in Overwatch?

[shrewd pivot]

I don't play anymore,
but in ow1 Playstation i played Lúcio, Moira, DVA, Reinhardt. In ow2 pc I played Ramattra, Sigma, DVA, Lúcio, Mercy, Moira.

My favorite lore wise in ow1 were Lúcio and Zenyatta. In overwatch 2 Ramattra is my favorite lore wise

How about you?

[bronze loom]

Fire ngl

[lyric storm]

emre

fire

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-the-misery-everybody-wanna-be-my-enemy-cat-gif-25172445

[proud hollow]

Ngl I never realized Zarya was on Overwatch until this season

[heady wigeon]

Well I plan on playing Winston, Reaper and maybe solider.

In terms of lore I’ve always had my eye on the omnic crisis—so Ramttra and Zenyatta. But as of lately the Lunar Colony has really peaked my interest. It serves as a relic of pre Overwatch return that hasn’t been touched. Serving as a good entry point for new people like me, literally giving me a view of the world from a zoomed out lenses

There’s also Sombra finding out some world ending secret and Sigma potentially loosing his mind.

[shrewd pivot]

yeah the eye conspiracy that Sombra aims to uncover (she wants to know who pulls the strings so she can pull them herself) is a really fun lore bit!

Sigma has my favorite art piece from overwatch, his origin short is peakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onplsJSdp4A

and then you watch it backwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEjTpDXINXA

[past copper]

You know, at some point, we might see Freja and possibly the Junkers get New Empire skins

That be cool as hell

New Empire Junker Queen would go hard

[shrewd pivot]

yeah it depends on how the Mauga negotiations with Junkers go!

[spare fox]

Unless Vendetta offers Junkerqueen something huge, which is not impossible and intriguing to theorize what it could be, I don't see Junkerqueen just agreeing to help someone else build an empire

Unless, as a third wildcard option, Junkerqueen gets the idea to go along and then betray Vendetta and take over but I don't think that's very much Junkerqueen's style

[shrewd pivot]

Inb4 Odessa agrees to ally with Vendetta's Talon and gathers 600 junkers onto a flying ship (The odyssey.. but scifi!!!!) /J

but yeah it's hard to say what will happen exactly

I wonder what will be offered

[acoustic ice]

she will send a trojan horse to talon

[shrewd pivot]

I'm thinking about Sigma's "sacred geometry" inspo/refs again.
"The melody is a harness" in the reverse of the origin short video, implies the Melody really is some kind of key to Sigma's powers.
Sigma says he "harnessed the harness" meaning he harnessed gravity and he harnessed the melody.... yet the melody still illudes him with "what is that melody".
Love the cosmic horror forbidden knowledge "but scifi!" vibes.

In "sacred geometry" the orbits of the planets, geometry of the universe, can be represented by music(music is math), thus the cosmic melody Sigma is hearing

In western alchemy that uses the 4 Greek humors, the dodecahedron represents the 5th element aether(connected with divinity/enlightenment/soul), and Sigma's hyperspheres are not represented by hyperspheres, but by those dodecahedrons with circles/spheres in it instead.
(presumably the dodecahedrons contain the hyperspheres)

and hyperspheres, hypercubes, n-dimension geometry etc are basically 4d spacial objects casting a 3d shadow in 3d dimension. it can seem like objects just appear and disappear: fits very well with Sigma's powers motif, and when he uses his hyperspheres, they teleport back to him as a 4d object could
(hyperspheres only exist in spacial 4d, aka, it's theoretical geometry)
n-dimension geometry is also used in "sacred geometry"

Also, if the spray is anything to go by, the point they used to show sigma has a black hole singularity in his brain, is the singular point used in "sacred geometry" for the human body

idk there's been enough connections to "sacred geometry" mysticism between Sigma origin short and Lifeweaver origin short, that i am so curious if overwatch has some kind of scifi spin on "sacred geometry" bc it would explain a LOT in lore lol

[lean creek]

why are people shipping mizuki and wuyang, do they have lore or is it just cuz theyre two pretty asian guys?

[grand wedge]

two young and cute asian guys, both supports

and maybe, if Mizuki join Overwatch at some point, the would meet

[brittle sky]

natural inclianation to rebel for something more interesting than the inevitable presumption of him being a love interest for kiriko (same age peer with similar personality, a *dark secret *, split loyalties for him to sacrifice for her/the group, a connection to her father) that he was arguably built for.

[shrewd pivot]

They have not met in canon, and it's unclear if Mizuki will defect to the Yokai gang (kiriko's gang) or join overwatch directly.
Wuyang is currently in Overwatch with his sister Anran.

So yeah fandom are just shipping two youthful support characters together ig lol

I would have thought Anran as the lucky vermillion bird would have been a funny fandom dynamic with unlucky Mizuki (doesn't have to be a ship, can be a fun friendship idea),

but ig fandom people are shipping the two turtle guys(Wuyang with black-turtle snake, and Mizuki with Kappa) together lmafo

[crisp canyon]

So after the event ends next week is new one gonna start or is that tab just gonna disappear

[shrewd pivot]

unknown

[crisp canyon]

Is this a twitch rewards skin or are more skins gonna come
Into the shop

[shrewd pivot]

Zarya was a twitch drop a while ago iirc, idk if more skins will release later.

[civic lynx]

Yeah she was a drop for spotlight

[shrewd pivot]

midseason we get Mei mythic iirc

[civic lynx]

Correct

It seems really good compared to the recent ones

[shrewd pivot]

Mei to me was always a chill kinda gal (her PJ look shows that) but i find it hilarious they are giving her "Mythic thigh highs" like 😭 Mei is supposed to be a gaming streamer in that skin i think?

[civic lynx]

Yeah I think it’s meant to be an AU of her if she never went through the trauma of ecopoint Antarctica which… ig means she’s a twitch streamer 😭

[shrewd pivot]

good for her, good for her.

[crisp canyon]

Mei getting the e girl skin I can only imagine what will become of her

[shrewd pivot]

yeah it feels kinda ooc for Mei in the sense it's more egirl than cozy if that makes sense?

[civic lynx]

The original concept for the mythic was trying to have both her good side (lore version) and her OW1 meme of being ice satan but in the end they chose to just use her positive outlook

[crisp canyon]

But I mean I guess it fits the player base imo it seems like mythics more sore are meant to just appeal to the core mains of that hero now rather anything else

[shrewd pivot]

I miss when mythics actually did "hero fantasy to the max" like with Genji cyberpunk ninja, Kiriko goddess kabuki actor, Sigma malevolent galactic king, Junkerqueen Greek gladiator

[crisp canyon]

Anything will be better than them giving doom a hoodie and basketball shorts

[civic lynx]

I find it kinda funny how they said mercy’s new mythic was like an idea that they just HAD to make when they first thought of it as if making the character that’s meant to have angelic theming into an angel is thinkin outside the box

[crisp canyon]

I think kiri and sigma really appeal to the mains but queen i feel like still is an odd pic

[shrewd pivot]

Odessa Stone being the lightning king (queen) fits, her lore is madmax but based on odyssey and herculean feats

[crisp canyon]

I guess but ares makes more sense than Zeus, and her customization is pretty limited and the skin itself isn’t really too much outside of effects

[crisp canyon]

Vengeance didn’t really hit the playerbase like they thought it would

[shrewd pivot]

same could be said with Kiriko, but it's the themeing fitting the hero's fantasy is what i mean

Widowmaker's makes zero sense

even Juno works imo, her mythic is a cute play on her hero fantasy

[civic lynx]

Juno’s fits her in game personality really well which I think is why I love it

Widow was just… like what did she have that made her the best candidate for a witch mythic over anyone else (other than the outfit combined with her body type being peak profit)

[crisp canyon]

No I think Kiris is better diving into the shintoism and spirits so it really fits her, I just think Queen got a basic I’m better than you warrior skin

[shrewd pivot]

and a harry potter houses witch no less, yuck. they didn't even let her have blue and green skin lol

[crisp canyon]

Juno’s is good and widows is bad

Idk why Genji is getting a second cause they said it was happening to heroes who didn’t live up to expectations

[civic lynx]

I think as time has gone on genji’s mythic has slowly become one of the ones seen as ugly and doing too much

[crisp canyon]

Symetra really deserved the witch season

[shrewd pivot]

i mean, Junkerqueen is a high and mighty ruler, and she's a modern day gladiator so i think Greek mythos fits well enough. Kiriko's sun goddess has nothing to do with kitsune

[crisp canyon]

I feel like most Genji players love it tho

[civic lynx]

Blizzard used to say genji’s mythic set the bar too high with all the details and customisation but nowadays fans just think it looks a mess

I’ve never been its biggest fan but I wouldn’t say it’s so bad he needs another one over heroes that don’t have anything

[shrewd pivot]

Genji is getting a SECOND mythic??!!!?

[crisp canyon]

It doesn’t have to do with kitsune, I just think they could’ve done a lot better on Queen than just here’s Queen in robe and armor and lightning effect, imo gladiator looks better than the mythic

[civic lynx]

Yep

[crisp canyon]

Yes him and Ana are one of the next 5

[shrewd pivot]

oh brother. they are just reruning cash cows ig bc that second Mercy mythic is wild to see

[civic lynx]

I like mercy’s new mythic but it was completely unnecessary

[crisp canyon]

I think the new one fits her better tho and appeals more to her fans

[civic lynx]

I was half joking half genuinely believing when I was sayin before spotlight vendetta would be the next mythic bc of her importance to lore this year

[shrewd pivot]

which is why i think it's funny bc Mercy's mythic tackled Mercy being a fallen guardian angel but her second is just straight up angel

[civic lynx]

I’m glad to have been proven wrong but mercy being the one we got is…

[crisp canyon]

I think Orisa, Ashe, Widow, reaper deserve second mythics before Genji

[shrewd pivot]

why does Ana need another mythic her mythic is goated

[crisp canyon]

Same thing with the mercy one, ppl don’t like its themed mythic

[civic lynx]

Her mythic is only good looking on the base level imo

The unique lines and voice effect is cool but the skin itself doesn’t exactly look great overall

Tracer’s mythic is also quite boring and I wouldn’t have been against a second one for her

[crisp canyon]

I think another complaint I’ve seen is that ppl don’t like the voice change they love Ana’s va

[shrewd pivot]

i feel her theme of SOMA horror fits Ana's hero fantasy perfectly as the horrors of war, what it means to be a soldier, and what that means for future generations idk.

imo they need to do characters that haven't gotten mythics before redoing decent mythic havers like ana and genji

[civic lynx]

I’m surprised it’s taken this long for soldier and mauga to get mythics

[crisp canyon]

Orisa second mythic should be where I change her headpiece between horse, Ram, and Rhino

[crisp canyon]

I better soldier releases mid season next for anniversary

Or is at launch depending on the timing

[shrewd pivot]

i hope it's not cassidy style mythics (completely remove iconic aspects of the hero like his cowboy boots and cowbot hat)

Cassidy you deserved a ghost-story cowboy mythic instead...

[crisp canyon]

I hope that we do get more tank mythics there hasn’t been a tank mythic at launch since dva

[civic lynx]

Ngl this should’ve been cass mythic for a Halloween season

[crisp canyon]

Even Ashe

I can’t believe they fumbled customizable Bob

I also just hate that stupid power rangers inspired skin

[civic lynx]

I’m not a fan of s11’s theme in general 😭

[crisp canyon]

Roadhog Got a better skin that season if not the best 1

I don’t like how they took away her white hair either

[shrewd pivot]

we still NEED these (Ram is death, Doom is war, Hazard is Conquest, Ana is Famine)

year of the horse, bring us the horsemen overwatch.

[civic lynx]

I was so confident this would be doom’s mythic or similar to it

[shrewd pivot]

tbh Junkerqueen or Vendetta would work for Conquest horseman more than hazard would but hm

[crisp canyon]

Still need Orisa to get a horse skin

[dense nebula]

No Kiri skin so won’t happen

[crisp canyon]

I hope Illari gets that fairy skin as her mythic

[shrewd pivot]

Illari skin could be a cosmic child maybe

if they go the celestial route to mythics

[crisp canyon]

Illari mythical either needs to be pretty ash or emo no in between

[dense garnet]

I want a mythic collab skin

Shadowheart Illari

[past copper]

Ya know, if the Junkers join Talon and get New Empire skins, wonder how Roadhog, Wrecking Ball, and Junkrat would look

Tho, I can't see Hammond sticking with them if they do

He might be loyal to the Junker Queen, but Hammond seems the type to put his own freedom above loyalty

[dense garnet]

Same with Roadhog tbh

[past copper]

Well, Junkrat and Roadhog are loose cannons. They're not loyal to anyone but each other

Hence why they were exiled from Junkertown in the first place

But that being said, they will work for money. Of which, Vendetta can pay them quite handsomely

[brittle sky]

Vendetta has huge "wage theft" vibes

Gives a lecture instead of a tip vibes.

[past copper]

Well Junkrat and Roadhog may be idiots, but they're not stupid. If they are forced to submit to Vendetta and Talon, they won't be shown mercy if they mess up their plans

[brittle sky]

We pay in exposure vibes.

[past copper]

The Junker Queen has been merciful to them. But Vendetta would not. They either stay in line or their heads will roll

Which I would love to see that fight go down

[brittle sky]

Seems weird they'd work for her in the first place.

[past copper]

It all depends on Mauga getting the Junkers to work for them

And just what Vendetta hopes to gain from them

[brittle sky]

But why would they join because junkertown? They aren't loyal to junkertown.

[past copper]

Depends. We don't really know where the two are at the moment

They're either still in Junkertown after Junkrat gave up his treasure or they were exiled again. Despite winning against Hammond, more or less

[brittle sky]

Man, such a pity if the extent of jr's treasure truly is "keys to an airship that the queen immediately stole"

[past copper]

Well I mean, they're forced to repair it. So if Junkrat isn't there, he got out of that mess at least

Still. The Junkers using an old Omnic cruiser can't be good

No telling what they plan to do with it. But it makes me wonder if that's something Vendetta can offer them

Means to repair the ship and even upgrade it for them in exchange for their loyalty

[crisp canyon]

Of all things why would she be shadow heart

[dense garnet]

Illari gives me cleric vibes

[crisp canyon]

I do not see anything past that

[dense garnet]

Idk who would be Shadowheart and no I'm not accepting Kiriko

[crisp canyon]

Probably brig since they have a mace and shield

And hair

[dense garnet]

Illari can have the hair too

[crisp canyon]

And armor

[dense garnet]

Illari can have the armor too

[crisp canyon]

And skin tone

[dense garnet]

Illari has a literal skin where she has armor

[dense garnet]

I never take skin tone into account

Since they're cosplay essentially

For example Ramattra as Halsin would be cool

[crisp canyon]

Brig would still be almost an exact fit of the character you want

[crisp canyon]

How would that even work

[dense garnet]

I like to see his nemesis form as a shapechange

And druids commonly use staffs

His slow ability could resemble something like Spike Growth or Entangle

[crisp canyon]

To what tho

[dense garnet]

A bear ofc. That's Halsin's main shape

His nemesis form could don bear aesthetics

[crisp canyon]

How would a bear fit that model

[dense garnet]

It wouldn't be a 1 to 1 appearance of a bear, but give him bear paws and a bear face/mask

When he transforms

[crisp canyon]

I think if they collaborated with bg it makes more sense to do DU Ram, SH Brig, Kar Queen, Lae Ven, astar LW, Wyl bap and gale wu

Those would fit the character models better and act be able to look like characters they’re based on

[dense garnet]

I had Reaper as Durge

[crisp canyon]

But honestly kind of doubt this collab would even happen now, bg ain’t that big anymore and idk what it would do for them considering those characters more than likely won’t be in the next one whenever that comes out

[dense garnet]

BG is getting an HBO show

So who knows

[crisp canyon]

Yeah but it has nothing to do with the game it’s gonna be an original set past the events of the game to be its own thing and try to cap on the got fanbase

[dense garnet]

I still want a Skyrim collab lmao

Less so characters, moreso armor/weapon pieces

Genji wielding the Ebony Blade oh lordy

[crisp canyon]

Todd Howard would do that if it meant he could delay es6 again

[dense garnet]

Did you see Xbox revealed they're already onto their next console?

It's likely still in the earliest stages of development but I feel like ES6 will be the launch title

I'm going off topic now lol

[unreal dock]

If you're playing healer and you swapped to Wuyang cuz you had an Anran on your team, you're awesome.

[dense garnet]

I do that just for the Kiriko interaction

"Do you sometimes wish you didn't have a younger brother?"

"Pshh, ALL THE TIME!"

[unreal dock]

haha

[crisp canyon]

Microsoft also allegedly wants to phase Xbox out and not pursue gaming anymore

[dense garnet]

That's just a rumor/speculation based on the new CEO

Basically people dooming

If they want to phase Xbox out, they wouldn't be making a new console generation let's be fr

Also terrible for business

[crisp canyon]

I mean yes they would if it’s true they plan to sell it for a grand or more they could just make their money on whoever buys it and still leave it behind

[dense garnet]

They'd lose SO much money if they decide to not pursue the gaming market

Xbox makes up a large portion of Microsoft's income, even if it's seen better days

The ONLY reason people are even discussing this is because the new CEO has no relevant gaming background

[crisp canyon]

Well the report is officially (still a rumor) that the Xbox will be phased out for a ai driven supportive hardware that would have an emphasis on pc gaming rather than the current market

[dense garnet]

Which idrc

[crisp canyon]

Considering she was working in Microsoft’s ai division before coming over to lead gaming it doesn’t sound completely false

And there have been rumors for a bit about Xbox shifting for pc

[crimson hearth]

They need to be careful in this economy with prices going up.

[crisp canyon]

Telling the trillion dollar company to be careful with consumer prices

[brittle sky]

didn't they just announce a new xbox?

[brittle sky]

I mean kiriko is kinda literally a cleric, and is a little sneaky to boot, so I think you may be doomed there

[crisp canyon]

No

[brittle sky]

https://x.com/xbox/status/2029646886408515623

Xbox (@Xbox)

The next generation of Xbox console: Project Helix

X · Mar 5, 2026, 7:55 PM

[crisp canyon]

Didn’t see that, but it also doesn’t mean they aren’t still planning on phasing out

[brittle sky]

bit of a weird phase out to make something new there

[crisp canyon]

New ceo, I don’t think they came up the idea for project helix after she came in, if they’re announcing to the public it prob alr has prototypes and is gonna start entering mass production soon if not alr to release by next year if it follows Scarlett’s release path

It could be the last Xbox, it could also not be, but Xbox usually has legitimacy to its rumors, like the series X act being 2 consoles with other being the series s, and the backwards compatibility, this stuff was all coming out around 2 yrs before x/s release

[brittle sky]

Just kinda post hoc updating the rumor to seek reasons why the announcement doesn't poke holes in it. It's possible, sure, but why are are clinging to a rumor in the face of contrary evidence?

[crisp canyon]

Because it’s not evidence to phase out Xbox, it’s a console that probably been in development since ab 2023-2024 around that timeline, and as I said there’s usually legitimacy to rumors about Xbox

I’m pretty sure even Xbox x model was leaked before being shown off at e9

They aren’t exactly Fort Knox of information regarding their plans and products

And the fact they don’t address the rumor, kinda adds more to it, why hire someone who has no relative experience in leading a game company but does have experience in AI development if this pc focused ai product isn’t a thing

[spare fox]

guys, this isn't lore-related, so maybe take it to another channel?

[brittle sky]

Fair, I was done anyways

[blazing badge]

So are DVA and Lucio together yet or nah

[brittle sky]

Nah, they're both doinking omnics

[nocturne flint]

Pooe bastion bro

[elfin bane]

anyone else like mizukis beta design better

with the shell on his back

i think it was way cooler

and more clearly kappa inspired

[digital linden]

yeah agree

[brittle sky]

what is being counted as his beta design?

[digital linden]

the one shown in that kiri thing

[brittle sky]

what, the one where it's a whole other guy and an omnic?

[wise grotto]

apparently yes

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah... I really hope that was meant to be an omnic, and not Mizuki lol

[brittle sky]

I would be shocked if mizuki was planned in that image.

[soft carbon]

Took me until Mizuki's lore vid to realise he's got a prosthetic arm

[shrewd pivot]

Same.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, it fits Kappa mythos actually! The Kappa mythos is that a Kappa gets it's arm cut off and is indebted to do labor or provide medicine to the attacker get its arm back.

[soft carbon]

Huh, nice

I mean, uh, not nice nice, but you know what I mean...

[broken eagle]

I have question,after how long u can send images here?

[edgy meadow]

a while

[broken eagle]

Like few weeks or longer?

[bold fern]

what ram think of animals

he no like human but what about animals

[edgy meadow]

he likes animals quite a bit

hes friendly towards hammond, respects jetpack cat for her intelligence, and seems sympathetic towards bastion's love for nature

he's not an Ultron-style 'hate all organic beings' type of character, he has deep criticism with humanity for its treatment of omnic kind but he values life greatly

[shrewd pivot]

Exactly!

I'd like to think Ramattra's appreciation of ants as his favorite animals is genuine as well. He seems to respect organic life. His beef is with humanity's(as a whole) negligence.

[shrewd pivot]

Also the shoulder pick up for cats is used for humor in a lot of media, but an FYI for real adult cats! :)

Since omnics probably know the best ways to carry different animals, I could see Ramattra holding a cat the shoulder way lol

Also i have a question. I noticed Vendetta has this... woven bandage wrap look? To her base and other skins? And it's not for an arm, but base clothing?
Is there a Roman pattern ref or something i am missing?

[bold fern]

prob just a tank top under her armor

dont want her chest spilling out or be uncomfortable

[shrewd pivot]

I ask bc her sword seems to be a reference to some Roman mosaic patterns

[wise grotto]

it’s more likely just something to wear under the armour primarily

Armour is fuckin uncomfortable as shit on bare skin

[shrewd pivot]

That weave doesn't particularly read to me as Roman so I wonder why woven bandage belts were used for her

Oh yeah ofc I know why there would be fabric between! I meant the pattern itself of the woven bandages bc I haven't found anything close to that pattern in Roman or Italian patterns, unless im missing something

[bold fern]

having ur bare chest on metal dont feel good

[wise grotto]

It just looks like it’s the collar of one meant to make it so when they bend and move around (especially with that shoulder guard) it protects the skin from rubbing and damage caused by your own very swingy fighting style

When your swinging your arms as often with a big shoulder guard your gonna want cushioning to stop it from harming you more

[bold fern]

solution be shirtless like doom

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, I know it's fabric armor to prevent metal armor against bare skin 😅

I am asking what the pattern is from, because it is not just arm bandages, but a distinct wrapping pattern on the torso

Ie: a Greek character might use a greek-key, but idk where that bandage pattern comes from

[bold fern]

its prob nothing

[wise grotto]

We’d need like a max definition picture of it to actually be able to deduce that but it’s
More likely the simple answer and nothing more

[shrewd pivot]

It's just... notable bc its crossed like eastern clothing is (ie, Kimono, etc has a "y" shaped collar wrapped one direction) so i was curious if it was a specific reference or what

[bold fern]

is fika an adult

[shrewd pivot]

Oh it might be a ref to this..? Eh??? Might be a stretch.

I don't see any bandage style wrapping in Roman clothing or architecture or mosaic otherwise

[bold fern]

im still confused why wasent mitzi used

[shrewd pivot]

No confirmation but fika seems too look like an adult cat.

Mitzi was referenced in some early ow2 screencaps as jetpack cat ability for skill tree for Brigitte let me go find it

[bold fern]

i really would have prefered mitzi

fatass cat

[shrewd pivot]

Assuming this is real...?

It seems jetpack cat was changed to be Fika, Fika has keyboard cat meme colors lol

https://tenor.com/view/keyboard-cat-musical-cat-beethoven-cat-gif-3298763

[shrewd pivot]

Mitzi seems to be one of those large cat breeds with very fluffy fur :) like the "Maine Coon" cat breed

Fika might be a "Siberian cat" breed: fluffy but looks fat lol, with long tail fur

[edgy meadow]

was probably meant to be a silly nod but not a serious character in the game, but once they decided to do the latter they probably decided to make jpc a different cat

[bold fern]

does mitzi look that big irl

[shrewd pivot]

@edgy meadow
Probably. Or it's that Fika is some kind of unique genetic experiment cat, which wouldn't make sense for Brigitte to own since her childhood

[shrewd pivot]

The cat breed can get that large yes! Mitzi is probably a "Maine Coon" cat. The "Maine Coon" cat breed was named after being the size of raccoons lol

[shrewd pivot]

True, Mitzi could be a "Forest Cat" breed!

"Maine Coon" cats also can have white fur and be big and floofy

The fur style of Mitzi is pretty similar to a "Forrest Cat" breed though!

"Forest Cat" breed:

[calm star]

yall i thought ram wanted to kill all of humanity, in a new voiceline interaction with him and soj he says basically that he doesnt want to kill humans and he leaves killing to humanity or smth???

did they js do a lore 360

https://youtube.com/shorts/-N-zjZ-gIOo?si=RzK1O2j9ce43h_yx

here

i swear ramattra wanted to kill humanity, i swear in not crazy. he was like "if we cannot coexist then yall needa die" smth like that i remember hearing

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra never wanted to exterminate humanity.

[calm star]

maybe im confused, i swear he did i guess i js misunderstood

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra is upset with humanity's (as a collective whole) negligence and oppression of awakened omnics

But Ramattra isn't aiming to cause human extinction himself

Basically Ramattra refuses to save humanity from itself, while Ramattra is "saving" his people from themselves (forcefully preserving awakened omnics minds in subjugation helmets)

Ramattra plans to wait out humanity's natural lifespan, expects humanity to war itself into extinction, and once humans naturally goes extinct Ramattra will release the preserved awakened omnics onto the world free from humanity's oppression

[calm star]

i see

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the whole "Ramattra is a humanity-terminator" thing is fandom flanderizing Ramattra.

Ramattra's writer said Ramattra was an antagonist, but not an evil villain.

Ramattra awoke into a situation where he had to make impossible choices: watch as awakened omnics were killed off one by one by humanity around the globe, or stand up and fight for the chance to prevent awakened omnic extinction. And Ramattra has seemingly succeeded in preventing awakened omnic extinction.

I'm still searching through and the only thing I can find is Roman guilloche(woven strands) and Solomons knot (here is a large section)

Maybe it's a reference to that...?

[wise grotto]

I don’t think it’s that deep for this one geniunely

[shrewd pivot]

I mean that bandage wrap pattern is a big motif in her design... im just confused why it was chosen bc its not really Roman or Italian unless it's some kind of spin on a Roman guilloche decal

[wise grotto]

The skin one is just leather woven together in straps

The second one isn’t the same thing and is fabric layered from under armour

[shrewd pivot]

I mean ig so (the skins are apparently canon tho), it was changed direction to slant from concept art

Her the sides of her hair also are not like this either

[wise grotto]

That just looks like random lines in the concept art it looks more like they didn’t know what they wanted to do with it yet

[wise grotto]

This looks like the same thing but less thick

As the version we have in game

[shrewd pivot]

It's "y" collar in game, in concepts it was V or a reverse "y" for how the fabric wrapped.

Yeah I was just curious if it was a reference pattern or something, bc its an odd detail to include 🤔

Might just be nonsense details tho, yeah

[fallow knot]

is vendetta a marie sue?

[shrewd pivot]

The writing in the latest comic with Vendetta finally lets her have "show don't tell" writing, so hopefully Vendetta doesn't win fights via plot armor going forward.

Answer: no I don't think she will be one

[wise grotto]

No she’s got really big flaws as a person fight just wasn’t big enough budget

I think she’s so heavily meant to be doomfist opposite her “armoured” arm is literally mirrored what his was

[shrewd pivot]

But i mean hey, if Vendetta is a star wars ref, being a Mary sue is entirely Anakin's, Luke's, and Rey's whole deal /j

But I do expect Vendetta to actually lose at the end of this arc. Hoping for a satisfying rise and fall for Vendetta's arc

[cosmic crest]

I think it remains to be seen whether or not Vendetta's flaws will actually be treated as flaws in the story

[shrewd pivot]

Which flaws do you mean?
Because her ego is definitely portrayed by the story tone as villainous, and Widowmaker calls Vendetta's Talon a sinking ship.

The only flaw not addressed is how Vendetta as a non-augmented human can tank bare skin hits to the torso from giant robots and Doomfist 😅

[spare fox]

I def think they are setting her up to be long-game with her flaws eventually being her undoing.
The problem with Doomfist is that, other than wanting conflict to force humans to become better, he didn't really have a clear goal as a character

[fossil wren]

It really bothers me that Ramattra has this reputation of racist and a genocidal maniac in the fandom when he's the complete opposite

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist was a great character to explore philosophy debates between heroes and villains imo.

Doomfist wanted to cause chaos to force humanity to evolve, that's a pretty clear motive imo. As for goal, yeah they kinda flubbed it

I hope Doomfist doesn't become #PotentialMan

[shrewd pivot]

SAME same same... 💯 same

I really like Ramattra's writing set up idea, even if the actual execution wasn't what I would have done, Ramattra presents very interesting worldbuilding, all while his lore is distinctively anti-war in tone (martyr figure, horrors of war, war forced Ramattra to make impossible decisions)
He's a very tragic story.

Idk it speaks volumes about his character that Ramattra disagrees with Anubis and is essentially letting humanity live out it's natural lifespan as a species. (Even if Ramattra thinks humanity will war itself into extinction, the idea that Ramattra isn't willing to save humanity from itself is ✍️ 🔥 a very interesting take on pessimism on humanity.)

Zenyatta's optumism vs Ramattra's pessimism is a really cool writing set up imo.

[vapid tusk]

like Pain from Naruto

[shrewd pivot]

I am not familiar with Naruto lore, pardon.

[wise grotto]

Anakin and Luke both had character flaws

Rey was perfect

I mean anakin ESPECIALLY

Luke one could see the lack even though he’s kinda boring

It’s like Anakins entire story in evrry iterations whole point

[shrewd pivot]

For Mary sueness my ranking is: Rey, Luke(ESPECIALLY in legends lore), Anakin

They all had plot armor and a "learned to use the force easily" op-ness is what I mean lol, which is my comparison to Vendetta having plot armor. Rey was poorly written imo, a shame imo. Finn deserved his Trooper jedi arc too....

Ig i just wish Vendetta was more properly Opera. Like how camp would it have been to have the Italian character be a media ref to a wuxia-inspired space OPERA series like Star wars, to then fight against the og Wuxia heroes with Wuyang and Anran?

The set up was right there, man...

[wise grotto]

Mary sue doesn’t describe a character who’s op it’s a character who’s a perfect everything without conflict

[crisp canyon]

What does that mean

[shrewd pivot]

To me, Mary sue describes a character that: has "tell don't show" writing, every character likes inescapably, is op, has plot armor, if there are flaws it's "relatable" ones meant to create empathy for the Mary sue(aka not actual flaws that get addressed)

[wise grotto]

I don’t think anakin had fuckin any non need to be addressed issues

Like
Luke was boring
Rey was literally perfect

Anakin
Jesus Anakin

[shrewd pivot]

Clone wars cgi show let Anakin get away with a LOT lol

But base movie, kid Anakin was Mary sue for a REASON to show opera-level bad guy fall from grace later on, absolute power corrupts absolutely deal.

Luke had a REASON to be Mary sue as well, as he represented hope

Rey was just kinda... power fantasy-ing without a narrative reason imo

[wise grotto]

Anakin still did and had very obvious character flaws

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed!

[wise grotto]

Like
They let him get away with it csuse a lot of Jedis where being evil honestly

[shrewd pivot]

Being a Mary sue with actual flaws makes it an edgy sonic oc pffft.

But it fits for star war's space "opera" genre. Rey didn't have any narrative reason to be what she was, so it didn't fit like Luke and Anakin did. Didn't help that directors changed between movies which muddled the story even more for Rey. (And fr, Finn deserved his jedi arc dang it)

Anyways I hope Vendetta can be actually fun to watch scheme going forward, I found her comic where she was organizing Talon much more engaging as it was "show don't tell"
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/vengeance-comes/

Bc Vendetta's cinematics monologs have me checking out (when it SHOULD feel epic) bc its near comical, I can't take her seriously crying about her poor papa.... Who was in charge of an organized crime group that terrorized citizens... like boohoo lady you didn't inherit your mafia empire. 🙄

my face when Vendetta starts her monologs with "Papa..." lmafo

[clever crown]

How much ram DOES ramattra have?

[shrewd pivot]

Also, update on the NiER collab: it seems I had seen reposts of the promo image that color shifted the image which made Vendetta look as pale as Kiriko why are fandom like this...

In the og pic (seemingly), it's clear that Vendetta is not Kiriko’s tone atleast

In the concept art I saw for the full body skins, it seems pretty clear Vendetta is keeping her base model tone as well.

The skin looks pretty cool tbh!

Though, thinking about it:
I am suprised they 3d modeled her face so small to body ratio (in comparison to other heroes), because they did state the anime-inspired sword was a focus for Vendetta.

I think for certain anime collabs where the anime characters have bigger heads, the proportions of a smaller face on Vendetta will make designs look kinda awkward, but it seems this NIER collab won't hit that due to NIER's more realistic style.

[civic lynx]

I agree she definitely isn’t kiriko levels of pale but in the artwork she does look slightly lighter than the actual skin concept art (and her in game model) due to the art not being made by blizzard themselves but by nier’s illustrator so it’s just a bit odd

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I agree. with Vendetta you can argue a tan difference for her being paler, or art lighting difference for her being paler in the promo art, but still, the promo art is not accurate if her in game skin keeps base tone.

atleast Lifeweaver wasn't made completely pale in the NIER promo art like he was in the persona collab art...

This was wild. (Comparison image pulled from google)

[wise grotto]

I think
It’s better to wait to see the ingame ones to judge always for collabs

[mellow narwhal]

Do you think Kace could have joined Null Sector after they went shadowy? And could Null Sector have used a human or a human consciousness in a robotic shell to spread their ideology to the masses?

[wise grotto]

Cause nier and atlas both prioritized the splash art showing off THERE characters

[brittle sky]

I think it's possible, but Kase just doesn't have much going for him that Ram has going for him better. I think you could argue there may still be radical omnics drawn to the NS cause even after Ram broke from the other founders and leaned into the 'none of my people die so let's throw empty warbots at the problem' (it's possible the pointy head sojourn shot in her cinematic was one such radical rather than just a warbot), but I'm not sure Kace would be the most interesting iteration of that.

I think uploaded consciousness is a concept we haven't really seen yet of the classic sci fi tropes, but they would need to do something to make that not delegitimize the fragility of the omnic population. Like, it seems like some amount of 'mind transfer' can happen given uploading to a safe place is part of ram's whole rapture plot, but consciousness to the level you cheat death ala revenant from apex legends seems like it might cheapen the stakes a bit.

[mellow narwhal]

What about a propaganda mouthpiece? I think if the omnics want to instill their ideals in people, they need someone who looks like a human being—not necessarily a real person, but something that mimics one.

And I just assumed that, for example, such a person could be an omnic, but with a human appearance and possibly a human mind, that’s why I asked, in your opinion, whether this could be in the plot or not

[shrewd pivot]

Awakened omnics don't have human mind/brain set ups, as far as we know. The closest to that would be Echo's tech brain set up being similar to a human, but Echo is not an awakened omnic, she's her own thing.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't Wargod Ana mythic implied canon...? Like copies of human personalities put into warbots?

Or are the null sector skins non canon i don't recall pardon

[shrewd pivot]

Ana mythic covers this SOMA horror of uploaded conciousness.

[brittle sky]

True, though how canon that is is uncertain

[shrewd pivot]

If trenchcoat omnic is anything like Nick Valentine, we might get human uploaded conciousness explored with that maybe.

[brittle sky]

I think you'd probably have to look for another splinter or faction of Null Sector if you wanted a human outreach or propoganda figure. Ram seems... distinctly uninterested in winning human hearts and minds (see various interactions where people went 'you did bad thing!' and him going 'I'm not letting my people die just so you think I'm not bad')

[brittle sky]

God, I hope it's not that direct a rip

[shrewd pivot]

Same. Not only is it a bit stale, but a:
"Oh this omnic hero? Actually a human uploaded." would be the most wicked troll lol

[brittle sky]

Right, but like... Ram's faction of null sector at least would not need that level of subterfuge to achieve his goals.

[bold fern]

posted on twitter, yall think it has any meaning

[spare fox]

I think they've used it before but idr where

[bitter scroll]

Vendetta stinky

[round bramble]

Kinda crazy how nobody ever brings up the terrifying eye in Emre's chest in any lore drop or similar

[past copper]

We're steadily getting every collab in the survey, but I'll be honest. I don't see how some of these collabs would work out

[sleek dock]

Maybe color theme or something for the hero’s idk

[past copper]

For example. What we talking about with Pokémon?

Are we talking the anime or the games

[wise grotto]

There’s thousands of things they can do with Pokémon

Just use the Pokémon

[sleek dock]

Make dva’s car a snorlax

[wise grotto]

Like
No need to care game or anime just use the actual Pokémon

[past copper]

I mean, if they just use the Pokémon, it might end up like the Hello Kitty Collab

[wise grotto]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t use the Pokémon
And hello kitty collab did pretty well didnt it

[past copper]

I'm not saying they wouldn't use the Pokémon. Just that Pokémon is a really really big franchise

A lot of potential no matter how you go about it

Now an Adventure Time collab would go hard. But that depends on contracts. Unfortunately

[crisp canyon]

Pokemon is never happening idk why they did that

[past copper]

Because deals and money go hand in hand with big gaming corporations 🤷‍♂️

[crisp canyon]

Nintendo would bomb blizzard if they saw a Pokemon character with a gun

[past copper]

As I said. It depends how they go about that

[crisp canyon]

I don’t there’s anyway to have a pokemon collab and not include a weapon

[past copper]

Nintendo says Pokémon can't use weapons. But they have no say on people cosplaying as Pokémon

[crisp canyon]

If the skin is meant to be a pokemon they definitely will have a say

Only way it happens is if it’s outfits inspired by pokemon schemes and aesthetics

[past copper]

As far as I can tell you. It would be a Star Wars and Spaceballs deal situation. That be my best guess

[crisp canyon]

If Nintendo wants none of their ips in Fortnite I can’t imagine ow is the exception

[past copper]

Regardless. Nobody says it just has to be Pokémon

Trainers exist too

And honestly, the only pokemon that would matter in that specific collab would be Pikachu and we all know who would get that skin

Wrecking Ball Pikachu

And if Team Rocket is included, Meowth Jetpack Cat

[crisp canyon]

Only collabs I foresee happening are evangelion, Star Wars, Batman, RE, Cyber Punk, Lazarus, Witcher, GOW, TR? DMC and probably the kpop the others just don’t seem like they would fit ow well or just are unlikely because of what they are

[past copper]

I don't see anything under Warner Bros/Disney contracts happening

[crisp canyon]

Maybe motu and one piece too

[past copper]

One is an empire that commands more money then a city and the other is a sinking ship that recently sold out to Paramount

[crisp canyon]

Paramount owns Warner now, they’re the reason Tmnt, SpongeBob r in Fortnite and Airbender was alr done, ntm dc has had like 5 waves with Fortnite

[past copper]

Both would expect way more than their fair share from Blizzard over a collab

[crisp canyon]

Disney stuff outside of Star Wars isn’t happening if they won’t allow Fortnite to have it

[past copper]

Harry Potter def never happening

People will never forget what Rowling is

And while Warners has pivoted away from her, her name is still on Harry Potter

[crisp canyon]

Didn’t the Harry Potter game sell crazy well

[past copper]

Yes. But only people fans recognize the books and movies more than the author

[crisp canyon]

What

[past copper]

A game was bound to sell like fresh baked goods

Though, I think the hype over it was short lived

Regardless. Blizzard wouldn't risk associating themselves with anything owned by Rowling

[crisp canyon]

It says it sold 6 million units just last year, which is crazy for a paid game three years after release

[past copper]

That being said. I certainly would not expect a Harry Potter collab considering the train wreck of a series Warners is making from it

[crisp canyon]

I think that probably means it’s aligning to act happen, if the show releases this year and it’s still pumping money out crazy

[past copper]

No deadline or anything on when or even if that is still happening, but I don't expect the show to get positive reviews

[crisp canyon]

It says 2027 so not this year but yeah it’s coming soon

[past copper]

Smh. That Harry Potter series gonna bomb harder than Velma. Warners is seriously allergic to money

[crisp canyon]

Harry Potter is a gigantic cash cow wdyem

I’m not even a fan of that bs but ik it makes money

[past copper]

Look, I'd like to end this conversation since it's not Overwatch. But I'll give you a brief explanation real quick

Details are scarce, but the few things known is that they claimed the show would be based off the books

However, the creators have said they never actually read the books. And it shows given their choices in casting

Enough said

[crisp canyon]

What’s wrong with the casting?

[past copper]

The creators, despite not reading them, said the show would be faithful to the books

But one choice of casting has left fans of said book calling out the controversy

They are not happy that Paapa Essiedu is confirmed to be Severus Snape

All because he doesn't match the physical description of Snape in the books

Now like I said, this isn't Overwatch related. So I'd like to end the whole Harry Potter discussion here

[clever crown]

So if I remember correctly in the lore Wuyang went to water college right? So does that mean there’s other colleges that other characters went to? Allow me to list some examples, Ramattra and zenyatta went to omnic college, junkertown has junk college, and maybe reaper went to being overly edgy college. The list just goes on and on.

[bold fern]

who do yall think is the face of overwatch

1.Tracer
2.winton
3.Jetpack Cat
4.Kiriko
5.Doomfist
6.Genji
7.Soj

[clever crown]

Winton

[rustic gate]

Ramattra

[vocal jewel]

Me

[cosmic sigil]

Kiri for ow2

[civic lynx]

OW1: tracer/genji (Winston was also iconic just bc there was no other character like him in a hero shooter)
OW2: kiriko
Present day ow: jetpack cat

[bold fern]

most evil char in ow (not ram)

[wooden drift]

Never noticed how fat that cat is

[tough rain]

I need Null sector to come back and make omnic cats after seeing how effective jet pack cat is

[civic lynx]

Brig always makes her cats big and greedy

Have you seen the size of the white one she has

[bold fern]

replace fika with mitzi

pls

[civic lynx]

We want the original jetpack cat

[wooden drift]

I thought Mitzi just fluffy

[civic lynx]

I fear she’s fluffy and greedy thanks to brig feeding her constantly

[wooden drift]

Yeah, original was more anthropomorphic I guess

[wooden drift]

God forbid feeding your pet

[civic lynx]

You can feed a pet without them having levels of greed they discuss in the bible

[wooden drift]

Cats are greedy animals, can't do anything about it

[bold fern]

cats were praised as gods once, gave ego

[civic lynx]

That’s why dogs clear blizzard we want a dog or wolf hero (vendetta doesn’t count)

[wooden drift]

Vendetta furry wolf skin

[bold fern]

vendetta is a wolf

seen her fangs?

[civic lynx]

They mentioned in an interview they have a funny concept for an evil orangutang hero that I want to see in game

[bold fern]

winston gonna have alot of voicelines with him

[civic lynx]

They can give new lore to Winton if the orangutang is from the horizon colony

[bold fern]

guys i think we make another asian woman char

fuck lorw

[civic lynx]

I don’t have the rest of the quote but I think he goes on to say the idea of the hero is meant to be a mirror to Winston where the orangutang is essentially an evil version of him

[wooden drift]

You mean evil hashimoto woman?

[bold fern]

ok on second thought

it might not be bad

[civic lynx]

D.mon (S4) is an Asian woman as well

[bold fern]

when ur playing dva are u actually playing dva

ur playing tokki

[civic lynx]

Then we get 2 robots (idk if the far left silhouette is an omnic or null sector unit)

[wooden drift]

Im so don't want d.mon tho

[bold fern]

so we should rename dva to tokki

cuz ur playing as tokki 90% of the time

unless u int every game and get demeched but thats a different case

[civic lynx]

They might not name her d.mon in game but that’s all we have so far

Her actual name is yuna lee so they could call her yuna, d.mon or another nickname

[wooden drift]

Nuh, that would be silly if they call her yuna in game

Cuz why dva not called Hana in game

[civic lynx]

I do think d.mon and d.va are a little bit too similar naming wise but idk if blizzard care

[wooden drift]

They are in the same squad

[civic lynx]

None of the others have similar names to d.va

[bold fern]

@civic lynx i wanna see more junkers, omnics or a person that became an omnic

[civic lynx]

I don’t think a person can become an omnic can they 😭

[wooden drift]

How would someone become omnic

Some kind of weirdo just transferring his brain into omnic's body?

[bold fern]

brain transfer

happens alot

in movies

[civic lynx]

We are definitely getting at least 1 new omnic based on the silhouettes but the far left could be an omnic as well

[wooden drift]

Left one is definitely not human too

[bold fern]

WE NEED MORE EVILLLLL

[civic lynx]

Yeah that waist is far too small to be human 😭

[wooden drift]

Starvation

[civic lynx]

But idk if they’ll be an actual omnic or just a robot from null sector or another faction

[bold fern]

imagine a char with no voicelines or sentience

[wooden drift]

I did saw one theory that this hero could be athena

Would be neat I suppose

[civic lynx]

I saw this theory on Twitter a while back

[wooden drift]

Is this some kind of leak or where did this come from?

[civic lynx]

https://x.com/uniwatchow/status/2020593654654706017?s=46 just theories

Jetpack Uniwatch (@UniwatchOW)

My predictions for the story roles of the unverealed characters

Check back later to see how close I am

X · Feb 8, 2026, 8:20 PM

The Icelandic prison they reference is this map that is coming sometime this fall/winter

[wooden drift]

They taking so much time to make these new maps

[civic lynx]

This one wasn’t even originally in the plan for 2026 😭

We were meant to have Tokyo (S3 this June) and Atlantic arcology this year

But arcology’s now been delayed into 2027 or further

[wooden drift]

So dumb

Like, at least port some stadium maps into normal ow

[civic lynx]

Tbf a lot of stadium’s maps are asset flips of normal ones

They’re just designed for stadium’s faster rounds

[wooden drift]

Serenza doesn't really feel like asset flip tbh

It could've been fine push map

Maybe make the map a bit bigger

[civic lynx]

Serenza is the first time they tried a unique one but it’s still filling the same role and theme of Rialto as talon’s base under vendetta

These 3 ones that leaked all the way back in S16 seem to be original but god knows when they release

[bold fern]

man i want wuxing university to be playable

[wooden drift]

Yeah, maybe they don't have enough people working on new maps,I don't know what other problems they could have