lore-discussion

[peak escarp]

they're only in discussions

[edgy meadow]

at this point i doubt theyd tease people like that unless they had something concrete on their hand but we'll see

[bold fern]

it has to happen considering they are doing something with the lore or it will be wasted

[edgy meadow]

blizzcon announcement is a valid prediction

[bold fern]

look at league and cyberpunk

hahahaha

who knows it might bring more ppl to da game

[past copper]

Keep in mind a "TV Series" is code for a Prime or Netflix series

[bold fern]

i mean where else will they stream it

123 movies

[past copper]

Kinda the only options now

[bold fern]

🥹

[civic lynx]

Probably isn’t Netflix considering blizzard sued them and cancelled the original OW show plan

😭🙏🏽

Prime video is more than possible

[past copper]

Because not a snowballs chance they going to Disney or Parawarner

[bold fern]

if they give it to disney its wraps

the mouse is greedy

and dogshit

[civic lynx]

They’re running through the collabs in the same survey as Disney IP’s so I wouldn’t rule it out but the chances at this very moment are unlikely

[bold fern]

prime is all da good shit

haha

[past copper]

Hulu not much of an option either. Disney+ merger and all. And Peacock doesn't have a great animation record

So it's either Netflix or Prime

I don't mind either one since have both

[bold fern]

im giving it 12 episodes 1 hr each

but how will they like

fit all of that

ow lore very big

[civic lynx]

I’d assume the show is like

Running alongside whatever the current lore is

Not using old lore and making it into tv episodes

[past copper]

I'm telling you, the only way to make a series out of it is during the Golden Age of Overwatch before they were shut down

[civic lynx]

They’ll use it to tell the story the game is currently doing and have comics, origin stories etc alongside the show

[past copper]

Because the creators of the series would have to get advanced insider information to make a series concurrent with what is happening right now

[flint thicket]

Cgi animation please for the tv show.

[past copper]

But then risk too many leaks getting out

[civic lynx]

I think the OW2 style is more likely for a show

[bold fern]

too expensive

[civic lynx]

The style ow1 had and the reign of talon cinematic has is incredibly expensive just for those 1 off shorts

A whole season of a show with it would cost an arm and a leg

[bold fern]

60 dollars per episode

[past copper]

Anime animation style. Simple and faster than making a number of episodes all in the Pixar style they like to use

[civic lynx]

Doom’s cinematic style is widely liked by the community so using that or something similar wouldn’t be a bad choice

[past copper]

I say that solely because a) we don't know if they would release such a series thus year or next or the year after that, but either way. Story, writing, and animation take time

And b) we don't know what time frame the higher ups would be pushing for the episodes to be done. (As long as it's not the same kind OPM S3 got, we're golden)

[flint thicket]

Now for overwatch films for theaters, definitely do the cgi animation.

[past copper]

Not gonna happen. Theaters are practically dead and unless it's a film well known beyond just the fans of it, wouldn't stay in theaters more than a weekend at best 🤷‍♂️

That's just how it is these days

[flint thicket]

Or at least overwatch full length movies in general.

[edgy meadow]

i think dismissing theater venues out of this principle is incorrect, but given this is still an activizion-blizzard IP and an American company, its probably gonna be a streaming service show anyway

[past copper]

Highly still unlikely to be a good idea. There is a reason movies based off games don't stay in theaters long these days

Though, to be fair, I think that the things going on in theaters bc of the Minecraft Movie didn't help matters more than anything

[flint thicket]

I still see kiriko amd mizuki's story getting the cgi movie treatment.

[past copper]

Look. If you want a full length movie for theaters, you gotta make one where an audience who don't know anything about Overwatch would be interested, bc you can't hope the entire fanbase would be enough

More or less, make an Overwatch movie focused on the Omnic Crisis. Start people who don't know the game from the beginning

And go into a serious from there onwards

[trail meteor]

what happened to emre? (keep in mind i am new to the game, just wondering everytime he uses his ult. why does he say like smth about himself like: "what happened to me?" ?

[past copper]

Movie set showing the waning days of the Omnic Crisis before going into a series revolving around Overwatch after the war

[past copper]

Taken by a mysterious group, brainwashed and argumented into being a weapon for unknown reasons

[trail meteor]

oh, ty for telling me lore about emre!

[median orchid]

Little extension:

People believe the shadow organization "The Eye" is responsible. (The people who are suspected of being the cause of the Overwatch HQ getting blown up)

He is also believed to be controlled by a shut down god program ai "Chernobog" which is located in Helsinki Finland. (Why Emre speaks Finnish during his ult)

There is a high chance that The Eye and Talon are working together as the AI in Emres head makes him work under Vendettas Talon.

[Im Not The Most Skilled About This But Thats What I Believe]

[flint thicket]

Probably the best idea.

[past copper]

Better or worse, it's the only best idea for a theater release movie

Because there will be people unfamiliar with the story of Overwatch who would go watch it in a theater. So you can't just start them off in the middle of things without context

Can't put audiences through the Star Wars or LOTR treatment anymore these days

[spare fox]

https://x.com/OWCavalry/status/2028178621068714331

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry)

Potential #Overwatch TV Series Update 📺

Johana Faries says Blizzard is looking to expand into film and TV, adding that "every one of our IPs could be some of the greatest linear media experiences that the world could experience."

👀 Near-term discussions are already underway.

X · Mar 1, 2026, 6:40 PM

They've gone from thinking about talking about it to talking about thinking about it

[thorny hollow]

Finally, maybe they could do something with prime video

That way its a bit cheaper for them animation wise

[past copper]

Not gonna be cheap no matter what. Gotta pay an entire team fir their time and efforts

[peak escarp]

I don't care what style they use as long as it is animated

none of that live action bullshit

[civic lynx]

Live action would be my final straw

[brittle sky]

Teen titans go

[peak escarp]

still better than live action

[shrewd pivot]

This might happen honestly

[shrewd pivot]

I do not want a 2d animation show if it has stiff motion animation like the genesis shorts or this "A Great Day"
https://youtu.be/py_kGferDww?si=vb0AP2r97E_vIeWu

Overwatch action scenes are a big deal, and while I don't like the 3d cel shaded artstyle of "The Hunt begins", the 3d cel shaded cinematics have better animation movement than the 2d animation we have seen thus far
(Mauga's short was very fun tho! Very saturday-cartoonsish)

[shrewd pivot]

Arguably a TV show using cel shaded 3d like this "The Hunt begins" are easier to produce than 2d animation due to the fact 3d animation assets can be reused, camera angles changed easily, lighting tweaked easily, etc. The passes needed in 2d animation to block out, animate, clean, and color take much more time and thus more money than in 3d animation pipelines. https://youtu.be/pIKLdhMtEd0?si=k6kUKNxTUFd1R-iS

I personally would want something with a more sharp/distinct artstyle (ie, Bad batch clone wars with clay style models or Arcane's paintler 3d model, instead of this current ow 3d stuff which looks like 'star wars resistance') but yeah. If it's stiff 2d animation like in Mauga's "A Great Day" that will be a downer imo

Regardless, I hope an animated show DOES get made. Overwatch needs it

For reference, this is star wars resistance:

I also see "blue eyed samurai" inspo for overwatch's 3d cel shaded style.

Though, if the team follows the recent animation media trend of emulating spiderverse aspects (as seen with Puss in Boots movie, etc), we could get something peak with a graphic-y comic book style 🙏

[stark folio]

Wait echo has no soul?

[peak escarp]

correct

[stark folio]

I forget she is like the omnics before aurora

[shrewd pivot]

Echo is not an awakened omnic like Zenyatta is. Echo was built by Mina Liao as a self learning ai after, the 1st omnic crisis (aka after Aurora's awakening)

[stark folio]

Intelligent but serves humanity

[peak escarp]

she is a highly advanced learning AI though, so she can seem sentient sometimes

[stark folio]

She is a mimic at best

[shrewd pivot]

I could see Echo's story having Echo eventually becoming her own 'thing', but for the time being yes just an ai mimic

[stark folio]

I feel like she is still just a child

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Echo is 14 years old, but iirc she was dormant for some of those 14 years. She's naive, but learning rapidly. Not exactly a child per se, but not an adult really either

[peak escarp]

she just lacks context for things

and life experience

[stark folio]

Practically the child of Mina then a omnium a factory that hardsets her for war

Omniums are what made the omnics hostile

[peak escarp]

Anubis made them hostile

during the crisis

[stark folio]

Rammatra isn't even a god AI and he is doing the same

[shrewd pivot]

More so, Echo was created after the crisis, by Mina. Mina saw Aurora more like a daughter, atleast canon wise she mentions she saw Aurora as a daughter figure of sorts iirc

The crisis occured 28-26 years ago.
Echo was created 14 years ago.

[flint thicket]

That would also make for a great movie.

[peak escarp]

Anubis was defeated and quarantined, so it can't influence omnics anymore

[shrewd pivot]

Robot scifi explored in an overwatch movie or TV show would be so peak ill take anything looool

[stark folio]

But isn't null Sector all drones?

[peak escarp]

yes

[stark folio]

What is the difference then between omnics and what rammatra leads?

Then

[peak escarp]

omnics were Awakened by Aurora during the crisis and have free will (they have "souls")
drones have no minds of their own, they just follow orders

technically Orisa is a drone, but she was given a personality core and other subroutines that make her seem alive

[stark folio]

I mean null Sector was founded by 3 other omnics

[peak escarp]

yes, but one is dead and the other two left

because Ramattra was going too far

[shrewd pivot]

"Awakened" omnics have free will sapience("souls" you could say), granted by Aurora's sacrifice.

"Omnics" are just a robot brand built in omniums.

Anubis is a god ai (not sapient) that hacks "warbots"(drones) and hacks awakened omnics to destroy humanity.

Ramattra hates Anubis.

Ramattra used "warbots"(drones) to put subjugation helmets on awakened omnics. The subjugation helmets preserve the soul/mind of awakened omnics. Ramattra wanted to prevent awakened omnic extinction, not cause human extinction when Null sector attacked.

[brittle sky]

Notably while the others left ram, they may not have quit null sector outright. Ram is described as a null sector leader, not the null sector leader

[stark folio]

There is 3 of them

[brittle sky]

Notably while civilian omnics and similar models like ravagers awakened most clearly, at least some war bots at the time, like bastion, awakened as well

[stark folio]

And one of them is actually deceased so 2

[shrewd pivot]

There was Lanet, Zera, Nameless and Ramattra that founded Null Sector.

Lanet died in the London Uprising. Zera and Nameless left Ramattra.

[stark folio]

Rammatra was deemed as too violent

They were hurt but still strived peaceful options at least

[shrewd pivot]

Violence was not the reason Nameless and Zera left Ramattra.

Ramattra was willing to deny awakened omnics free will in order to save awakened omnics, which is what Zera and Nameless disagreed with and left.

[brittle sky]

I don't think violence was the line actually. The line was ram started to seek goals that ignored the will of omnics, thinking they needed to be saved from themselves. That was what alienated the other two

[brittle sky]

Tracer killing named omnics in her hometown: 2-0. Tracer saving named omnics in her hometown: 0-2.

[stark folio]

Rammatra sounded no better then the humans

[shrewd pivot]

Iggy counts so ig 1-2 lol not that's any better really

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra's question was "I wanted to know how to save a world that refuses to be saved" -- Ramattra desperately wants to secure a future free from oppression for his people
https://youtu.be/kQ_y0QcorJ8?si=ij1PxGcFsxHsd8aM

[brittle sky]

Ram is meant to be a very flawed character, where his rage and desperation lead him to both bad means and questionable ends, one reasonable people could regard as evil. Whether they thread the needle of him just being another killmonger style "but social change is bad actually" or something more interesting we'll have to see.

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra lore please don't fall into those pits nor #PotentialMan 🙏 🙏 🙏

I always say this, but ye Ramattra's writer said Ramattra is intended as an antagonist but not as an evil villain, I hope the story can carry that forward

[brittle sky]

Overwatch shuts off ramartra's reverse genocide doomsday weapon with the help of their dear friends, jk Rowling and any American president. Omnics go back into the underground, grsteful to know their place. The UN give junker queen full sovereignty of Australia.

[peak escarp]

[shrewd pivot]

It's a joke doctor, not seriously suggesting this

[peak escarp]

even as a joke, it's bad

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Which is the point, that worst case scenario we get some egregious botched writing.

But out of the blue bringing up some awful irl figures in a joke might be a bit awkward I suppose, which is fair to find uncomfortable /genuine

[flint thicket]

👆

[shrewd pivot]

Ig its bc I am used to many series botching writing in this regard (ie, making an antagonist suddenly 'kick puppies into lava' to justify the good guys winning against a now obvious threat), that the absurdist joking-over-dramatization of the genuinely poorly handled omnic allegories in overwatch isn't anything beyond a pure sarcastic joke to me.

Ig without the irl name drops it would read better tho

[grave saddle]

Do we know why symmetry has a cybernetic arm?

Tried searching it up but seems like it’s just theories

[shrewd pivot]

iirc, it was the 1st omnic crisis? (i don't recall exacts ill go check). Regardless, Vishkar seemingly provided her a prosthetic arm.

[grave saddle]

Do you remember where that’s from by any chance?

[shrewd pivot]

De:Classified i think mentioned it

[grave saddle]

Obviously noted that her architect skin doesn’t have it so must have been after she joined Vishkar

[vocal rapids]

I like Ramattra

[brittle sky]

Taking the bad implementations and icky implications of poorly written "these villains challenge a horrific status quo, but don't worry, the guys defending it are good" to a not even that exaggerated degree. Down to the fact multiple superhero comics (overwatch's major inspiration generally and use of this dynamic specifically) have heroes team up with real world us presidents.

[peak escarp]

we haven't been given the details of her arm

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah exactly, that was the context I was reading with the team up part in the joke

Due to server rules, ig its fair to not do name drops tho 🤔

[peak escarp]

it's a reasonable assumption that Vishkar provided it

[shrewd pivot]

Ill search for the section then since ik my memory can be bad, pardon. I could have swore De:classified had mentioned it

I shall go look

[brittle sky]

I don't think they detailed in my own recollection, but absent other evidence I'd lean to assume "lost it to the crisis/poverty/disease" rather than the whole "vishkar chops limbs off their employees needlessly"

[peak escarp]

Symmetra isn't mentioned in Declassified iirc

the only indication of what age she lost her arm comes from her Archives spray (which may or may not be canon)

it shows her as a young girl (early teens?) studying at Vishkar, both arms intact

it doesn't have to be a forced amputation, it could have been voluntary

or like you said, loss from injury/disease (probably not the Crisis, considering her age)

[wise grotto]

She also has the arm while a young engineer (her lore skins)

Or at least a non full vishkar engineer

[shrewd pivot]

Hm yeah, seems I severely misremembered mb, I thought there was text in De:Classified as an "*" addition below on a page somewhere, but I can't find it. Maybe im confusing it with another mention? Pardon.

Chu did confirm Symmetra was an amputee in a now deleted stream apparently, but that's about all I found
Pardon! Thank you for the corrections, I appreciate your time. /genuine

@grave saddle apologies for my misinfo!

[stark folio]

Rammatra is evil but his actions make sense

They make him an intriguing villian

[glad fox]

Not sure about his actions but his motivation makes sense

[peak escarp]

why do you write it like that

De:Classified

[shrewd pivot]

Oh i picked that phrasing up from a friend who wrote it that way (De:Classified) so I assumed that is how the title was meant to be written, pardon.

[ocean pilot]

I mean you cant FULLY blame him, his people were dying and they couldnt reproduce since the Iris cant be replicated, I would be mad too if I were an omnic

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra was forced into a situation where he had to make impossible decisions, yeah

[clever crown]

As an omnic myself ramattra has the right to defend his people

[stark folio]

Moira isn't interesting like this

[brittle sky]

Don't worry. I'm sure the paramilitary whose original and current forms were formed to shoot omnics, who are consistently more successful against omnic enemies than human ones, and who have had 0 omnic members in either iteration will provide a better solution to the dilemma of omnics.

[stark folio]

Reinhardt seems like he cares more about omnics then rammatra after bastion and his survivors guilt

[shrewd pivot]

To be fair, I think after the awakening, overwatch allied with awakened omnics to fight against anubis during the 1st omnic crisis.

(Not saying overwatch is the answer ofc)

[brittle sky]

I mean, if they stopped writing her purely as a punching bag for interactions she could be. Just... Show times where her brand of science got results. It's not like her voice actress can't handle nuance.

[ocean pilot]

Is it true that Freja is canonically prejudicial (in absence of a better word) towards omnics?

[stark folio]

I mean she was search and rescue during the crisis

[brittle sky]

Oh yeah

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, she talks down to omnics as "bots" etc

[brittle sky]

She hasn't face turned yet so she's allowed to keep her roboracism

[ocean pilot]

Damn

[stark folio]

To be fair talon are terrorists

[brittle sky]

She was a child in the crisis

[brittle sky]

Her search and rescue is purely golden overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's hysterical that Freja can be anti-omnic like that but Vendetta is apparently not anti-omnic as far as we can tell. Vendetta is willing to negotiate with the Junkers tho so...

[stark folio]

She worked with overwatch after the crisis yes?

The same era as tracer?

[brittle sky]

Yeah, later days of the golden age best we can tell

[ocean pilot]

She probably just adapts to whats convenient at the moment

[brittle sky]

I mean I'm not putting any ism past anthropomorphic moe mussilini until I get hard proof otherwise.

[stark folio]

Moira being hired was the end of overwatch

It shows their moral integrity was gone

But to be fair wasn't that more Gabriel's fault?

[ocean pilot]

Winston is everything OW should be and thats why I love him

[brittle sky]

I mean I think the more interesting notion is the complexities, compromised, and perhaps fundamental realities of the world doomed overwatch

[stark folio]

Reinhardt was thrown aside by overwatch though despite he was everything they should be

[brittle sky]

Moira didn't make the call to assassinate Antonio, or invade London, or massacre the shimada.

[stark folio]

Reinhardt did everything he could sure he was stubborn and brash but he was a true hero

At heart

[ocean pilot]

Yeah, hes also great

[stark folio]

He learned to be a better man once his actions got his crusaders wiped out

[ocean pilot]

I personally love Vishkar's lore and the connections to Rio's Revolution

[shrewd pivot]

I reread bits of declassified that had the bit about 13% of the global human population being wiped out by Anubis, which was before overwatch even got up and running properly.

Does anyone know the time period for Sojourn's novel? Like... in Sojourn's novel it was within the year they managed to handle the Detroit omnium right?

Bc its unclear how long the UN negotiations lasted... but within the first WEEK of the crisis(prior page) negotiations started, then lasted for months (this page)

That's genuinely wild if within atleast 2 months 13% of humanity was gone.

[clever crown]

I don’t know why but something tells me that jetpack cat is secretly evil for some reason I can just feel it in me the voices in my head are telling me that jetpack cat isn’t what she appears to be.

[ocean pilot]

The default voiceline should tell you everything you need to know

[shrewd pivot]

JPC has Tom and Jerry human-sounding giggles in some voice lines of hers, no way that creature is trustworthy /j

[ocean pilot]

If it can ride a jetpack and shoot paw projectiles and drag me to the abyss, it can plot world domination I mean come on guys

"Regular cat"

[wise grotto]

Tom was a very trustworthy cat

Assuming you where Jerry that is

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think Fika will be hyper genius like Winston but I do hope Fika is smart enough to actually... agree to being on the battlefield or whatever Brigitte is creating lol.

Cat's are extremely dexterous so idk, Fika probably would have used elaborate tools like Hammond if she could.

[ocean pilot]

There is something up with Fika, it really makes me think about the Lunar Colony but I am 70% sure shes not from there due to chronological problems

[shrewd pivot]

Joking about her being untrustworthy bc of the giggles, but yeah it's uncanny lol

[shrewd pivot]

Could be that Lucheng breeds special lines of animals before sending them up to the Lunar colony. Winston might not be a random gorilla, but a selectively bred lineage to be receptive to an intelligence serum ir something. (That is, assuming Winston was injected with a hyper intelligence serum like Hammond was)

Also Echo's ult line copying JPC being actual sentences and not meowing for ult, makes me think they WERE going to have JPC have the jetpack voice do some kind of read out for Fika, similar to Hammond and his mech reading it out. Echo notably mimics Bastion's ult with singing but states Bastion configuration with voice lines.

[peak escarp]

maybe Bastion is singing when he ults

it is a tune from an actual song

[clever crown]

Ram lowkey based for liking ants it made me like
Him even more

[hallow rose]

Let him cook

[peak escarp]

maybe Torbjorn likes Wagner and Bastion picked it up

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah exactly doctor, which means maybe Fika is just meowing when she ults! And Echo in voice lines meows at Fika.

but Echo is stating voicelines instead when using ult as JPC, it might have been a layover from a prior design idea for JPC having the jetpack state voicelines (the jetpack does state voicelines from initiation, etc)

[peak escarp]

but for cats, meowing is their language

likewise, Bastion's beeps and boops are his language

the fact that Echo translates JPC's ult but sings Bastion's means that Bastion is also singing

[stark folio]

Imagine with other cats the cat doesn't speak at all

[silk mango]

mondatta was such a baddie

[stark folio]

Mondatta was a fool

I'm sorry

[silk mango]

NO

[shrewd pivot]

It's about layover from prior design iterations is what I mean, I find it interesting that JPC is getting full on sentences for one meow during ult

Unless this implies Jetpack cat is fully fluent in English in canon...? Idk lol

[stark folio]

I doubt it

[peak escarp]

I don't understand what you mean

[stark folio]

Doesn't her jetpack translate for her

She isn't fluent she just understands human commands

[peak escarp]

and I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say

[stark folio]

Unless it's a Hammond situation?

[silk mango]

hold on if omnics can die wouldn’t they be revived if they have a chip that stores stuff (ram or smth)

[stark folio]

Technically yes

If it isn't destroyed

But wouldn't their temporary files be removed?

[shrewd pivot]

I do believe Bastion is singing during ult, I get your point.

But JPC is meowing, not speaking a robot language that others can understand like Bastion is.

Unless Fika is meowing actual lamguage and Echo is translating it to English(unlikely bc it is one meow sound), this might be a layover from a prior design. Because Echo singing means she would copy an animal singing too, and Cats communicate with meows not as grammar language but as expressions of emotions (like a war cry! Is what i imagine the ult is)

[silk mango]

it never really said mondatta’s chip was destroyed right?

[peak escarp]

why couldn't it be a translation?

[silk mango]

so basically since they still have souls, could it be in the chips or whatever

[peak escarp]

many languages can convey complex ideas in a single word

[stark folio]

Mondatta was shot in the head

[peak escarp]

one meow could easily mean "I'm knocking them over" or whatever she says

[stark folio]

I doubt there is much memory left there

[peak escarp]

even english has single words that have a whole phrase worth's of meaning

like defenestrate

[silk mango]

he did shut off so I’m assuming that chip was in the head

like a brain

omnic brain

[shrewd pivot]

It's one long meow, and Echo's lines are idioms.
Would make more sense if the Echo JPC ult lines were leftovers from a prior design is what I mean

Unless Fika is just speaking full on language, in that case, Fika should be able to get a translation device to speak for her if Echo can understand Fika. Like. Idk isn't Echo with overwatch right now? If Echo could understand Fika then Fika could use Echo as a translator to tell people what's going on

Or maybe JPC is just shitpost character and it means nothing idk lol

[peak escarp]

if Hammond can get a translator, Fika definitely could

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah exactly

[silk mango]

well fika is a ginger cat I don’t think anything is really going on in that little head of hers

[peak escarp]

true

[shrewd pivot]

But if Fika was speaking actual language wouldn't Winston(familiar with Hammond) or Echo(can translate) notice that?

[peak escarp]

who says they don't?

Echo seems to understand her in their one interaction

[silk mango]

because cats are understandable

[shrewd pivot]

Echo being assigned to being Fika's translator, instead of just building Fika a translator is kinda odd writing but ig that could be the case.

But if Echo could translate full language overwatch would know Fika is NOT a normal stray cat so idk

[silk mango]

Me and my cats talk to each other

through emotions

Body language

it shouldn’t be hard for the heroes to understand the cat

[shrewd pivot]

Seemingly, Mondatta was killed, as in his Aurora gifted sapience/"soul" was killed.
It's possible that his omnic body could be "rebooted" but the sapience he had was murdered by Widowmaker

[shrewd pivot]

It's less so that, more so, in canon Brigitte thinks Fika is just a normal stray cat that's a bit smarter than most.

If Fika can straight up communicate in fluent language, and Echo can translate, that makes it obvious Fika is not a normal cat at all.

Otherwise Echo would be translating what Ganymede says into English

[peak escarp]

maybe she does

off screen

Ganymede just doesn't have anything important to say

[stark folio]

She was found in Gibraltar

[grave saddle]

It’s all good. I highly doubt it was voluntary or forced anyway since that’s a big thing to not have mentioned in lore tbh

[peak escarp]

Winston can understand Hammond without the translator "because they're both animals" according to the devs

so he should be able to understand Fika too

[shrewd pivot]

Then that's not really translating language, that's "oh the baby wants food now"

Which comes back to my point, the ult line just struck me as curious bc it either implies Fika is speaking actual language, OR Fika used to have read out audio in a prior design.

[shrewd pivot]

Wait so why is no one telling Brigitte that Fika is not a normal stray cat wild prank to pull on Brigitte

[peak escarp]

how would they know what she is?

just because they can understand her doesn't mean they know what she is/how she got smart

Fika herself might not even know

[shrewd pivot]

If Winston can understand Hammond, that's bc Hammond is speaking language they both learned on the space station.

If Winston can understand Fika, Fika would have to be speaking the same language which is like!!!!! What how would Fika know that

[peak escarp]

no, Winston can understand Hammond because all animals can understand each other

[shrewd pivot]

If Winston CAN'T understand Fika but Echo can canonically translate, that's still a pertinent thing

[shrewd pivot]

Wait really? Like. The lore is that being an animal means ever animal speaks the same language....?

[peak escarp]

I'm just telling you what the devs said

it's not even a language thing

they just understand each other

[grave saddle]

If all animals can understand each other to the degree regular cat being translated into pure English isn’t weird then that’s kinda crazy

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's what im saying.

Lion king moment lol.

If Fika can actually speak and Echo can translate, why haven't they built Fika a translator so that everyone can understand Fika?

[grave saddle]

But ultimately echos line with fika and subsequent ult translation probablyyyy isn’t canon and a leftover from a previous design / gag as you said

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah im thinking it was a prior design iteration where JPC had the jetpack ai voice announce the voicelines Echo saya

[grave saddle]

Tbf they could probably get away with it for now in that echo may not have met fika in lore yet until the talon attack

Then again Winston does seem to have a line where he understands fika to some degree. But again passable as any cat owner might be able to respond similarly

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah but Brigitte has been working on Project jetpack cat for a while... idk i think Echo would be able to notice if Fika was speaking, and I think Winston would be able to notice if Fika was displaying signs of language use.

I'll laugh sooooo hard if Mizuki being a double agent spy against the Yōkai gang has him defecting to Overwatch, and then it turns out Fika was playing dumb as a double agent spy against overwatch for some malicious group 😂

[peak escarp]

I cannot seem to find the source for animals being able to understand each other

the wiki has this information, but of course doesn't list a source

I remember it was from some article or interview back in 2018

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf Winston and Hammond could use sign language to communicate

[peak escarp]

but they don't

Hammond chatters and Winston responds in english

[gusty cloak]

I'm curious, what's yalls headcanon / predictions on how vendettas talon reign ends? I think she will have a "Icarus flew too close to the sun" type moment and doom will come back to rub it in her face when she fails and take back talon

[shrewd pivot]

Ceasar arc im guessing for Vendetta

[shrewd pivot]

Then it's some kind of language using sounds that Hammond's voice box can make.
Notably, Gorillas don't have voice boxes like humans so a talking gorilla is very much genetically designed.

Not unbelievable for Hammond to speak a language, as you can technically "speak" Morse code and there's actual 100% whistle languages irl used in mountains to communicate in Spanish iirc

[peak escarp]

the language is hamster

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe it's bc i take a scifi take on things, but different aliens have different voice boxes, so speaking language varries in sounds and actual language groups, not just a universal "oh it's animal language everyone can understand" deal.

Omnicode is different, because it seems to be based on omnic's actual coding, which yeah would reasonably be a universal language that all omnics could understand

[peak escarp]

no need to take a scifi approach when the devs gave us an answer already

[shrewd pivot]

The answer being that Winston and Hammond can understand eachother, but not how exactly right?

[peak escarp]

"because, of course, they're animals, and all animals can communicate with one another."

[shrewd pivot]

Ah ok, can I get wording prior to the because for more context? Pardon

[peak escarp]

like I said I couldn't find the source

but it was a follow up to why Winston can understand Hammond

[shrewd pivot]

Bc overwatch declassified made a big stink about the mega farms (and ashe novel mentions cassidy worked at a pig butchery factory), i didn't think overwatch's animals were like... lion king moment where animals universally understand eachother, I thought Hammond and Winston had shared a language unique to them

[peak escarp]

you edit your messages too much

[shrewd pivot]

Sorry, im trying to word my message clearly /genuine

[peak escarp]

thanks to that little throwaway line about not eating pork, people think Cassidy refuses to eat pork ever

and complained when his Overwatch Cookbook dish was a pork dish

(a really tasty one, I've made it several times)

[shrewd pivot]

Lol
Reminds of the Juno scared of cats bit and people's response to Juno being friendly with Fika

Ig im just going over semantics about Fika bc like. It DOES change a LOT if its just... overwatch has a lion king moment lol

With animals just universally understanding eachother, somehow

[peak escarp]

lion king moment?

[shrewd pivot]

Lion king moment meaning all animals understand eachother, somehow

[peak escarp]

why wouldn't animals understand each other? it makes sense to me

[shrewd pivot]

Is it only hyper intelligent animals that universally understand eachother? Or is it all of the animal kingdom.

Bc if a rabbit and an elephant can speak and communicate as clearly as two humans speaking English (ie lion king), that certainly.... is something.

Kind of makes Aurora's whole sapience moment a bit pointless narratively

Also makes Anubis like... much more justified if humanity was killing off Simba's family lmafo

[peak escarp]

being able to communicate doesn't automatically mean you have human level sapience

[shrewd pivot]

Actually it kind of does, understanding allegory is very much human child level intelligence. animals have special communication styles, dogs and cats notoriously have opposite gesturing with ears, etc.

I just think it would not be a good idea to have Fika break worldbuilding in that regard.

[ripe cloud]

venture and the wayfinders will arrive and take over talon and then use their power to find cool rocks (confirmed by blizzard 100%)

[peak escarp]

what does allegory have to do with anything?

[shrewd pivot]

Fika's ult lines are idioms, pardon im trying not to go back and edit messages.

Understanding higher order language concepts is not a trait in all animals.

A snake understanding a dolphin via lion king "animals just Understand eachother" is what I mean here, i would hope overwatch isn't that...?

Like overwatch has all these little lore details and explanations, if they had the whole arc about Aurora's sapience being a huge deal, making animals just be "huh? Oh yeah its uhhhh lion king" kind of is a wild choice there

[peak escarp]

ult lines aren't even canon so I don't know why it matters

[shrewd pivot]

Unless i gravely misunderstood, you were saying Echo JPC ult couldn't be a prior iteration of Fika's design having read aloud lines from the jetpack ai.

[peak escarp]

you seem much more invested in the worldbuilding implications than even the writers are

[peak escarp]

I was providing an alternate explanation for the sake of discussion

[shrewd pivot]

Well yeah. I would hope new characters add to lore, not disregard or break lore

[peak escarp]

what I mean is, I don't think the writers even considered the worldbuilding implications of animals that can understand each other

so them being able to doesn't break any lore

[shrewd pivot]

I... would call that bad worldbuilding writing, because prior characters like Winston and Hammond were integrated seemingly well enough

[peak escarp]

Overwatch's writing isn't flawless

there are going to be mistakes and omissions and things that are overlooked

especially since it has passed through the hands of so many writers

[shrewd pivot]

Kinda sucks they overlook on a character the fans have been wanting for years (JPC)

Atleast Emre has some lore leads tho

Hype to see where that goes

[peak escarp]

a character that fans wanted because it broke the lore

it was just a silly concept

and people ate that up

I would have rather had jetpack alligator 😛

[ocean pilot]

Whats the bottom left little guy supposed to be?

[shrewd pivot]

Winston exists as a silly concept of a talking gorilla space ape and they managed to make it pretty heartfelt tho....? Even Hammond, who I don't actually like, is integrated into lore bery well. A cat in a jetpack on its own isn't breaking lore

[peak escarp]

at least the JPC we got seems to be integrated into the lore somehow (even if we don't know how)... and doesn't have the goofy flight suit and glasses the original had

[peak escarp]

flying robot monkey?

[ocean pilot]

I thought so at first but it still feels a bit off from that

[peak escarp]

these concepts were early ideation for what eventually became Wrecking Ball

and he was concepted as a robot hamster briefly

[shrewd pivot]

I think the silly flight hat Fika has now counts 😭 she doesn't even use the goggles

plus Hammond has his astronaut skin which is very close to this lol

[shrewd pivot]

Ong Hammond as a robot hamster would have been so much funnier and frankly more believable than a hamster that grew gigantic. Hammond is a bit too on the nose of "you open a machine and it's a hamster running on a wheel" + hamster ball joke

[ocean pilot]

The icon on the ball looks like Dva's icon

[shrewd pivot]

I would have accepted a genetic chimera for Hammond as well.

[peak escarp]

he is implied to be genetically modified

not just made smarter

oh, not even implied

they outright say it in his bio

[shrewd pivot]

Pardon, by genetic chimera I mean the biological definition where it's pieces of other genomes in one organism. Like a rat-hamster-gerbal-guinea pig genetic chimera thing

In canon Hammond is just a genetically modified hamster, but it doesn't have the same camp as Winston(bc Planet of the apes)

[viral pilot]

They're totally going to make Murphy a playable character

[peak escarp]

why

[viral pilot]

Brigitte will be like, "wow I see something really special about this dog, let's shove him in a little tank or something idk"

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's how I feel about Fika's writing so far.

Unless Fika is intentionally playing dumb to appear like a normal cat but smarty, I don't get the writing

It's just... shitpost

[peak escarp]

Sojourn would not let that happen

[shrewd pivot]

Sojourn better get on that ASAP bc Brigitte is about to launch Project Jetpack Katt 😭

[viral pilot]

Project Tank-Dog

(Brigitte probably)

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, have you read Brigitte's poetry? /j

[peak escarp]

Fika is clearly not a normal cat

[viral pilot]

😅

[viral pilot]

Fair enough

[shrewd pivot]

And yet Brigitte doesn't see that but is willing to put Fika into the fight.

Winston doesn't recognize Fika's unusualness either, and Echo can translate yet no one has said anything....?

[peak escarp]

Brigitte suspects that Fika isn't normal

was so stuck on the schematics for the thrusters, but Fika knocked one of my old blueprints off the shelf—and it actually clued me in to the answer I was looking for.
I can’t help but think there’s something special about this kitty.”```

[ripe cloud]

IS THAT A LIZARD

[peak escarp]

what does Echo translating have to do with anything?

[shrewd pivot]

Brigitte sees Fika is a smart cat, but still sees Fika as a pet cat atm.

It's very much silly meta writing and foreshadowing something in the future tho, for sure

[peak escarp]

Echo can probably translate any animal

[shrewd pivot]

See this is what I mean /pos

If echo can translate any animal, and Fika is actually intelligent, Fika would have told overwatch to get her a translator by now. Unless it's some goofy "Fika is actually playing dumb pretending to be a pet cat" thing

[shrewd pivot]

Crocodile or Alligator!

Im more interested in how Mizuki's family curse will be handled in worldbuilding/lore anyhow tbh

[peak escarp]

is he actually cursed, or does he just think he is

[shrewd pivot]

My guess is either some kind of self fulfilling paranoia(gambling away money to buy lucky charms thus 'bad luck' etc), or there's some group causing accidents that make it seem like bad luck

[viral pilot]

Yeah I was thinking he just believes he is cursed

[shrewd pivot]

I'll laugh if Mizuki straight up has Wuxia Daoist monk Yin Yang imbalance bloodline curse (yep it's a common trope) "but scifi", bc that would mean overwatch worldbuilding uses metaphysics or something

It will probably just be paranoia tho

2 days until Mizuki lore video so hopefully we get some ideas for what's up with the curse thing there

[viral pilot]

The lore videos have been feeling pretty barebones ngl

I still like them tho

[shrewd pivot]

They seem to be toned down versions of the Origin shorts we used to get, giving us a glimpse of the characters personality

[peak escarp]

I miss the comics - they explained a lot more backstory

these little shorts just give us snapshots of their lives

[viral pilot]

True

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, plus the voice direction is completely different from the texts like with Domina's so it's not even canon lore adjacent in some cases.

I prefer comics being read, over these recent videos too

[viral pilot]

Mizuki's story and Mauga's side quest deserve a comic

[viral pilot]

Mauga's assignment***

[peak escarp]

yeah it's weird that they turned them into radio dramas instead of audiobooks

[shrewd pivot]

Radio dramas is a very apt description /genuine

[peak escarp]

you lose a lot of nuance doing that

[shrewd pivot]

See this is why we need an overwatch mmo. then we can get alllll the lore bites in npc texts with silly little quests... (I am greedy for worldbuilding)

[viral pilot]

Too bad, take this mobile game

I jest

But I'd have always wanted a show or something more expansive. Such a missed opportunity

[shrewd pivot]

A show is seriously in the talks now btw! Recent news

Might even be a thing announced at blizzcon (my speculation)

[viral pilot]

That'd be so freaking cool but I shan't get my hopes up

Omg I just looked at my recommended articles and one said "Potential Overwatch TV Series Coming Soon"

Crazy

[viral pilot]

Nevermind, I guess

[shrewd pivot]

I am hype bc overwatch getting a series is long overdue

Also not sure this applies to Fika, but technically Lucheng wasn't the only ones testing on animals to make them extraordinary, there's also Naughton who created the super soldier program

[peak escarp]

that's another thing it could be

[shrewd pivot]

Marine biologist tho makes me think of an octopus in a fishbowl type hero or something instead but yeah lol

Imagine if we got the space hamster in Australia, and an Australian's cat at Gibby base /j

[viral pilot]

Octopus hero would go hard

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah there's actually this one videogame called "Exodus" that honestly uses a lot of the tropes overwatch does too, but in a different setting, a lot of 'Wuxia but scifi' too

one of the recruitable npcs is a hyper intelligent octopus piloting a water tank mech lol. "Awakened" Animals in this game have a similar set up to Winston where it's a modified animal to be human intelligence +

A "fishbowl" type super intelligent animal would be really fun for an overwatch hero one day, and an octopus would be apt bc they have a unique brain set up that independently evolved from mammals, great for scifi storytelling imo, octopus are basically the closest you can get to "little green aliens" intelligence in overwatch where devs confirmed no "little green aliens" actually exist

[glad fox]

Has there been any lore on hanzo since the cinematic?

[flint thicket]

I feel the Hashimoto is directly responsible for that.

[past copper]

Does that have anything to do with one scientist's theory that if humanity ever went extinct, octopus would evolve to become the next dominant species?

[shrewd pivot]

As in Vendetta's cinematic?

Not that i recall? Maybe someone else can answer tho

[remote wing]

given that octopuses have basically been the same for more than 328 million years, i doubt it lol

i think they peaked

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, octopus are often used in scifi to show "squid alien" trope intelligence or just unique animal intelligence

Besides, most octopus species don't live long enough to form cultures, only a few years for most species

Now, Ravens on the other hand... /half joking bc Crows and Ravens are genuinely generational grudge keepers

[past copper]

Technically speaking, I remember someone scientists said octopus DNA is completely unique to themselves

[remote wing]

well i mean

squids

[past copper]

As in, they have no genetic connection to any other species on Earth. In other words, they have claimed that octopus might be an actual alien species

But it might be a stretch

[shrewd pivot]

Nah. Octopus are earth life. It's just very unique brain set ups compared to mammals. Each octopus arm acts like a brain lobe, and thus a severed arm causes octopus to forget things. Meanwhile, mammals have one central brain.

Cephlapod (like octopus) and mammal (like human) diverged long ago which is why people may describe octopus as "the closest to alien intelligence earth has"

[viral pilot]

That's a really cool design. What's the game?

[remote wing]

isn’t it crazy octopus are older than flowering plants

[shrewd pivot]

Pardon my unclear wording before, the video game is called "Exodus"

I'll edit the main comment to make it more clear

[viral pilot]

Ah I see

I'll have to check it out then

[nocturne flint]

Whos the strongest male physically?

id say its a tie between Rein or Hog

[acoustic ice]

I am firm in my belief that Mirrorwatch Pharah is instead the child of Widowmaker

She would just be Pharah but french, no side changes

[shrewd pivot]

Technically Winston lol

[viral pilot]

I don't think hog is anywhere near as strong as Rein or Winston

If Rein, only cuz he's old

[regal heath]

Winston should be the strongest in terms of obvious biological strength, but Hazard has a good case because of that tech he injected himself with.

[wise grotto]

Winston Mauga haz rein are all decent contenders for just raw strength

For non tanks venture canonically (funny enough) has the second heaviest weapon in game if I recall

[regal heath]

I forgot about Mauga lmao

[peak escarp]

hot take: Genji

because he's a cyborg

although I guess Doomfist is also a cyborg and would probably be stronger

NO WAIT

Zenyatta and Ramattra

because they're robots

[viral pilot]

Does that make Sojourn a contender then lol

[regal heath]

Dang. People already forgot the question lmao.

[upbeat sable]

it’s me actually

[ripe cloud]

oh my gosj

[carmine edge]

lf anything 18+

[visual jay]

Is sojourn a human or cyborg? Cuz like all of her is mechanical no? Did they move her consciousness or smth?

[broken eagle]

I think she has cybernetic limbs

[ornate parrot]

https://youtube.com/shorts/seVGcUZEtNQ?si=UtiPAHIAh54DxJTC

[wise grotto]

This is one of the few times size definitely matters
And genji is NOT blocking with his arms any solid crushing or physical blow from someone like Mauga or angry Winston

Genji is crumpling

[digital linden]

do we know what the global omnic population is?

[flint thicket]

One can wish you could remove the cybernetics from Emre to save him from the AI, but sadly, either the AI will repel any who attempt or he gets killed by the attempt

[brittle sky]

we do not. I'm not even sure we have a complete list of omniums

[digital linden]

would it be fair to assume one major omnium per continent or was there one in each country

as u said there’s probably not much info on them

[shrewd pivot]

You would think! But it seems the omnium in Detroit was so bad during the 1st crisis it was harming Canada in Sojourn's novel, so who knows

I would like to think there's atleast one per continent tho

[digital linden]

it does seem realistic and then the omnics produced would be distributed from there

interesting about the detroit one though

[brittle sky]

Declassified made it seem like omnica was ambitious in its heyday, so there's no indication they were rare enough to be one per continent (asia has both siberia and the east china sea), though whether they were frequent enough for some to get multiple per country we have no hard evidence for.

[lyric storm]

lore

[brittle sky]

what of it?

[lyric storm]

we all love lore

[brittle sky]

sounds about right

[broken eagle]

Real

[clever crown]

What’s talons goal now that vendetta is the leader now?

[clever crown]

Or is it still the same

[civic lynx]

Seems to be both getting rid of ow and also world domination (or at least control of most of the world)

Doomfist wanted a conflict bc he believed it was the only way for humanity to evolve, vendetta just wants to satisfy her ego that’s the size of Saturn

[brittle sky]

Not entirely clear. A sojourn interaction implies that Vendetta might be up to something more specific/strategic/interesting than Cobra Commander style world domination, but at present territorial conquest and creating an empire by force is the primary action.

[shrewd pivot]

🥀 the overwatch team really failed this sound artist imo by not coordinating/communicating better. He did great work on Juno's sound design by using retro scifi media inspo. If the writers had better communication, Wuyang could have had fun Wuxia media sound design like how Cassidy has fun Spaghetti western media sound design.

This is from his newest video about Wuyang

https://youtu.be/Vw-UlaCM41w?si=5L0lmBPFMoI8PyKL

[shrewd pivot]

Man this actually makes me kinda sad because it's really obvious the artists are passionate about the design work and do really great work, but whoever is in charge with character lore coordination is dropping the ball.

Let these artists have the pulp fiction refs to work off of rahhhhh it could be so good!!!

I assume this is due to crunch deadlines, so I won't blame the writers, but dang. What could have been... 🥀

[wise grotto]

wuyang was during the time frame Microsoft came in and wiped the writing team out

So it was more who was left over telling them

[shrewd pivot]

See i WOULD want to believe that, but Anran doesn't have Wuxia nor wuxing sound design either. Unless Anran was designed during the exact same time....?

And the writer for Wuyang explained Wuyang was originally based on Wuxia hero Sun Wukong from "Journey to the West" before Chinese cultural representatives informed that the idea was not a good idea so they chose Wuxia hero Guo Jing from 'Return of the Condor heroes' instead.

Wuxia genre was an active focus for Wuyang's pulp fiction inspo since the beginning.

So it's not a scramble/oopsie for just one character, Anran still has the same lack of pulp fiction context for her sound design.

I do love Anran's fire alarm for her ult tho, that's genuinely fun camp

[kind ore]

Here's a lore question I don't think anyone has asked:
How did the Omnic Crisis affect Oregon?

[nocturne flint]

A lot of people died

[lusty sequoia]

is there any character in OW thats jewish

[flint thicket]

Cannot wait for mizuki lore tomorrow.

[kind ore]

I actually don't think so

[nocturne flint]

Total of one billion people were killed

[kind ore]

I decided to try and write some lore about how the Pacific Northwest fared throughout all ghis

[nocturne flint]

What do you think

[kind ore]

Here's what I think:
The Pacific Northwest did not see any Omnic attacks. No robots, nothing. It could almost go on as if nothing was happening.
Key word being almost

[nocturne flint]

No

[nocturne flint]

Why tho

[kind ore]

To this day, no one can say for sure.

For some reason, the PNW remained off the Omnics' radar

However, this meant a mass surge of refugees from all over the world entered the area.

[lusty sequoia]

thats very antisemetic

[kind ore]

And bringing their anti-Omnic mentalities with them

[nocturne flint]

idk what that word means

[nocturne flint]

Kinda makes sense

[shrewd pivot]

Rules say this channel isn't for fanfic, but speculation on canon lore is welcome :)

[kind ore]

Oh sorry

[shrewd pivot]

Ur good!

[nocturne flint]

Real Question time.

How old is Jq

[twilit patrol]

33

Nvm she's 31

[lusty sequoia]

OW obv hates jewish people

[nocturne flint]

Zamn

[nocturne flint]

i dont think Blizzard hates any race or country

[lusty sequoia]

then they need to add a jewish character

[nocturne flint]

Maybe one day, i waited for a Turkish character for 4 years lol

[lusty sequoia]

well jewish is the only one that matters as gods chosen people we need better representation

[nocturne flint]

Whatever fills your cup dude

[lusty sequoia]

are you saying you dont like jews?

[nocturne flint]

no?

[shrewd pivot]

For canon:
No Jewish hero yet as far as I am aware?

A dog tag on Soldier76 skin says Morrison is Catholic (Christian)

A dog tag on Reaper skin says Reyes is atheist

Reinhardt is Brigitte's godfather.

Symmetra dances kathak dances, Hindu possibly

Lifeweaver has Buddhist influences, possibly Buddhist

Wuyang mentions chi, and is based on Wuxia genre heroes, so Wuyan and Anran are possibly Daoist

Efi's family (Orisa's creator) seems to follow Yoruba spirituality.

Kiriko’s grandma was a Shinto shrine maiden, and Kiriko is too, or atleast, Kiriko seems to be a Shinto practitioner.

[nocturne flint]

i dont think its the right channel for this conversation

[lusty sequoia]

what would be the right one for you anti semetism

[leaden sparrow]

guys whats happended in the lore and why are we on jews

[shrewd pivot]

Jewish representation is not the only representation that matters. Overwatch is a global roster, and people around the globe should be represented on the roster.

[nocturne flint]

Not the lore channel thats for sure

[shrewd pivot]

JunkerQueen is 31 in ow2 (now rebranded as overwatch)
You can see each hero's age and birthday on the bio page:
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/junker-queen/

[nocturne flint]

ZAMN

[lusty sequoia]

so you wanna take it somewhere everyone can see dont you

sure team up on the jew

[nocturne flint]

Man are you high?

[shrewd pivot]

You were asserting one group as "more important rep" than others, please stop.

[shrewd pivot]

"Antisemitic" or "Antisemitism" means to be anti-jewish. It is a hateful bigotry.

[lusty sequoia]

youre the one hating jews here and you have the balls to ask me that

[shrewd pivot]

Not everyone speaks English as first language, please stop.

[nocturne flint]

When did i said i hate jews?

[shrewd pivot]

Let's stop this topic please, take it to dms.

[lusty sequoia]

you said youd rather have a turkish character first

[lyric pumice]

Overwatch for 6 hours straight btw

you're def ragebaiting man

You got too bored

[shrewd pivot]

....when? I think the "no" response was to answer your question, not to say there shouldn't be a Jewish hero. Unless I am mistaken.

To be clear: I personally would like to see a Jewish hero on the roster one day.

[lusty sequoia]

oh you hate jews too i cant believe youd say something like that while my country gets attacked

[lyric pumice]

Yeah its bait

[shrewd pivot]

Please stop

[lyric pumice]

That would be really nice

[lusty sequoia]

the only bait i like is master bait

[lyric pumice]

Im surprised no one sussed you out sooner man

[lusty sequoia]

me too ngl

i was rage baiting in gen too

people were pisseddddd

[lyric pumice]

Gen chats are always chock full of whatever

Fr

[shrewd pivot]

If you don't want to talk lore, please use another channel

[main drift]

Boom boom boom

[lusty sequoia]

erm actually please talk lore

[north ridge]

genji has to coolest lore

[split berry]

Nun uh

The siblings do

[brittle sky]

Genji's lore has all the edgelord arc if you're into that. Problem is they completed it entirely in backstory, and left him kinda beyond character development.

Siblings are your golden child v. Failson dichotomy with... Weirdly low stakes ('I got into my safety school' doesnt really hit as hard next to 'our family pressured me into killing you with a sword' and 'i stonewalled you from your dream job then didn't tell you I wasn't dead for years'), but has some fun details (siblings actually like each other, hints that anran is actively destroying herself fulfilling her reputation)

[regal heath]

We could play whataboutism about any character missing rep in OW. They're going to come in time as long as the game stays relevant. Don't worry.

[regal heath]

You know, maybe Sombra can help? Hack and deactivate all his cybernetics just to remove them first.

[brittle sky]

I'm honestly just surprised we didn't get a menorah reveal on one of the Xmas comics

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah ik!
I was just replying to the person that was implying one rep was somehow inherently 'more important' than other reps.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, would have been the opportunity tbh!
If the writers chose Soldier76 to be catholic and Reaper to be atheist, then other characters can be any various faiths tbh

[flint thicket]

Never thought of that before.

[peak escarp]

Tracer is seen putting one up in the background in Together

no hints as to who it's for, or if it's just for inclusivity

(also I don't think it has the right number of candles...)

[brittle sky]

Okay that would be wild to put up a religious item in a group space when none of you have that religion.

[regal heath]

Oh man. I just realized we PROBABLY won't be getting a Taiwanese hero. Remember that whole debacle where people got banned for chiming in about the HK protests?

[brittle sky]

It's the wrong one for hannukah, yeah. Artist probably pulled up a ref and went off a ref of a temple one with realizing.

[brittle sky]

I'd be shocked if overwatch ever spoke to Taiwan, Hong Kong, Israel, Palestine. I'd honestly be surprised if they did a Ukrainian char even. There's a reason the Siberian crisis is languishing in a hole.

[peak escarp]

yeah they definitely won't address any controversial nationalities

[brittle sky]

Okay so presuming the menorah isn't just lip service or what have you, there are like... Two neo overwatch members who while long shots do not have active evidence to the contrary

[peak escarp]

which ones?

[shrewd pivot]

I'm curious too, which heroes?
Off the top of my head, Zarya and Freja and Sigma don't have any active indications for any particular faiths iirc

[peak escarp]

it would be funny if, despite all the angel imagery, it was Mercy

even more reason for her to hate the Mercy persona

[shrewd pivot]

That's very possible tbh. Angels do exist in Judaism, though the portrayals are very different from Norse valkyries haha

[shrewd pivot]

Does she hate the Mercy persona? I know she hates having to use the suit, but I thought she was pretty dedicated to helping people

[peak escarp]

Valkyrie suit was to prove a point: that my technology worked. But I knew how other
people saw me. How my teammates wanted me shoulder to shoulder with them. And so, little by little, Dr. Ziegler withdrew, and Mercy took her place.```

she likes helping people, but hates that she had to be in the field to do it

[shrewd pivot]

Ahhh yeah that makes sense. Ty!
What is the source for this text?

[peak escarp]

Valkyrie

[shrewd pivot]

Ill go reread it, ty

[peak escarp]

also when her coworkers in Egypt call her Mercy she's all "don't start that"

[viral pilot]

Do you think there'd be a way they could include some of those nationalities in a positive manner that doesn't invoke the political drama? Or would it be safer for the devs to just exclude them altogether?

[blazing badge]

Has there been any updates since soldiers hunt for illari

Did he find her

[mossy vine]

https://youtu.be/aa9ce-TvBpQ?si=yxhM9V6PKqTK4Th_

dude this video has been amazing. I’ve never caught up on the lore as I’m a newer player (1 year). This is so cool

[shrewd pivot]

Having names common from the regions as npcs in filler text wouldn't be bad. Like logs listing doctors, wayfinder society members, etc.

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, Soldier76 met up with Illari and infiltrated a base to delete Inti warrior tech records (so it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands) with the help of Sombra. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/futures-past/

[viral pilot]

I see

That'd be cool if Soldier76 formed a new faction

[blazing badge]

Sombra helped soldier and illari?

why

[viral pilot]

It was mentioned that Oasis had something to do with the destruction of the sun warriors possibly. It's a conspiracy that Sombra is trying to uncover I believe which is why she's in contact with Illari

[blazing badge]

So does this mean illari would lean more towards talon?

Because if illari chooses to fight for a side in this current event then that side is gonna win so easily

[viral pilot]

Sombra is really just with Talon for information. I don't think she has any intent on bringing Illari into Talon

[shrewd pivot]

No, if anything Illari would reject Talon because Moira works for Talon and for Oasis, and the Oasis compound is what Illari and Soldier76 broke into. Soldier76 even tells Illari to beware Moira. Also Sombra.

[blazing badge]

Her hesitation to work with soldier points to that she doesn’t want to work for Overwatch either

She really is just doing her own thing

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah pretty much

[blazing badge]

Illari is one of my favorite lore characters in the whole game and I’m so sad that we don’t get enough of her

[shrewd pivot]

Characters don't have to side with overwatch to be good guys ofc!

I just don't see Illari joining Talon imo

[blazing badge]

True

Praying we get a cinematic of her though

[viral pilot]

I like that they're not having every character side with either of the two main factions but that unfortunately does mean we won't be seeing them often

[shrewd pivot]

I think she will play into the eye conspiracy, it's possible her explosion accident was sabotage possibly. Or maybe not, but Sombra and Soldier76 seems willing to work with Illari

[brittle sky]

Zarya and Cole were the ones with the least counting against them.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's unfortunate we don't get to see more, but I appreciate that it's not a bland "every character choses overwatch heroes or Talon villains" for worldbuilding

[shrewd pivot]

Cass is probably not Jewish bc of the pig butchery lore. For many Jewish sects there's taboos about touching pig carcasses. Also, Cassidy has a pork dish in the cookbook which implies he has eaten pork.

[blazing badge]

Unless this war got soldier to want to come back, and he’s trying to convince Illari to come fight for Overwatch since she’s so powerful

But i might be stretching there

[viral pilot]

Soldier has also been doing his own thing. He's not apart of Overwatch right now

[shrewd pivot]

How so? Soldier76 doesn't tell Illari to join overwatch in the short story.

[blazing badge]

Oh ok

[viral pilot]

I can see them both being integrated in overwatch later in the story

[blazing badge]

I know the PvE mode was a big miss but I’m really sad they closed off the omnic invasion entirely down to just “they retreated”

No way Ramattra would just back down and go hide

[viral pilot]

"Hey guys, I'm rejoining the gang and I have my friend, the f'ing Sun God to kill everyone for us"

(Soldier probably)

[blazing badge]

This would be CINEMA

[viral pilot]

😅

[blazing badge]

Vendetta would stand no chance

[viral pilot]

True

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the null sector arc was rushed under the rug, but Ramattra is technically building phase 2 right now as he waits. The subjugation helmets preserve awakened omnic minds so Ramattra retreated after he got what he wanted (prevented awakemed omnic extinction), and Ramattra plans to wait out humanity. Ramattra assumes humanity will war itself into extinction.
https://youtu.be/kQ_y0QcorJ8?si=HeixqfzQBuS-iMTB

[blazing badge]

And he’s kinda right with Overwatch vs Talon right now. So maybe the 2027 chapter will be his return

[shrewd pivot]

I would love that, but I doubt Ramattra would return so soon as next year's arc.

[viral pilot]

Omg that new Ram dialogue where he's like, "yeah I'm perfectly fine waiting while humanity wipes itself out" to Vendetta is great

[blazing badge]

Fair I’m just excited to see where they go with this war

[viral pilot]

Same

[shrewd pivot]

"Suffer as I have" and it's forcing humanity 'to watch as your own people squabble into ruin' ✍️ 🔥 Ramattra writing is peak, Ramattra is not willing to save humanity from itself and that is cold af for an antagonist.
Zenyatta still has hope in humanity tho, is willing to fight to protect the good that exists in current day

[viral pilot]

Definitely. I wish he had a part in the story but it is smart that he isn't and is just waiting

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I am so glad Ramattra wasn't written as a humanity-terminator, nor as a character 'killing omnics to free them' via some kind of messed up take on freeing the soul from cycles of reincarnation by forcing a meditative death state with subjugation helmets. Ramattra had the goal of preventing awakened omnic extinction, achieved that, and is now doing some kind of phase 2 to a grander plan

I hope phase 2 isn't building a rocket ship tho bc Omnics def can share earth with humanity if a system is set up where omnic minds are safe in a server, and the omnics just remote control bodies. It would be a cop out if they write omnics living on a space ship or living on the moon or mars as the 'solution' Ramattra came up with.

[viral pilot]

I was thinking that they might end up seguing into some new plot for Ramattra rather than continue off his prior plan

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah my guess is that Ramattra could possibly look into recreating an awakening to create new awakened omnics as a part of phase 2...?
I'm not sure what else phase 2 could be, considering he plans to wait out humanity.

[viral pilot]

Planning a new awakening would definitely be something he'd try

Be it an unethical way somehow

[shrewd pivot]

Mina Liao said that there was a way to do the awakening AND keep Aurora alive, it's just they didn't have the time to figure out how to do that at the time, thus Aurora sacrificed herself to do an awakening.

Ramattra would probably sacrifice himself to do an awakening if need be, but imo he would probably try to find a way to do what Mina was talking about, an awakening while not killing the the individual

[brittle sky]

I mean Cass is kinda disconnected from heritage and community anyway, so of the two zarya is the one who could actually explore that

[viral pilot]

Ramattra could kidnap those people that worked with Liao and learn everything they know

[shrewd pivot]

I agree, and it's not like Cass couldn't be, I would just guess unlikely.

Then again, I would have guessed it was unlikely for Soldier76 to be Catholic and Reyes to be an Atheist, so who knows haha

[brittle sky]

I mean... It really scans for both

Iike deeply unsurprising both ways.

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe? Idk.
I can't think of what phase 2 would be for Ramattra beyond:
A) Building base fortifications to wait out humanity's natural lifespan
B) trying to figure out how to do a new awakening that does not sacrifice the individual
C) building a space ship to load up all the awakened omnics on bc humanity isn't dying fast enough so Ram will be chilling in space or the moon or mars etc (I do not want this C option to be the route canon takes, personally)

[shrewd pivot]

Oh it makes sense don't get me wrong! I just wouldn't have guessed it personally, so my guesses are probably off.
For Reyes especially, because he has the grim reaper / haunting ghost wraith motif deal, I wouldn't have guessed atheist. It makes sense though

[viral pilot]

Yeah B is the only interesting option for the writers to pursue I think

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra is a "necromancer but scifi" too so like

It fits

[viral pilot]

Lol I like your character descriptions. "_ but scifi"

[shrewd pivot]

Haha It really is! /positive

[viral pilot]

Fair enough 🤷

[shrewd pivot]

Pardon if that tone came off wrong ah

Overwatch uses fantasy classes with a scifi twist.

Lúcio is a scifi bard, Brigitte is a scifi holy paladin, Lifeweaver is a scifi Druid, etc

[viral pilot]

No I didn't interpret it like that 😅

As wrong I mean

[viral pilot]

Omg you're right

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's a part of Overwatch's hero creation pipeline.

It stems from the fact Project Titan was an mmo, and so classes were made similarly to World of Warcraft. Project Titan was scrapped, and became Overwatch

I really enjoy overwatch BECAUSE it's a playful "_ but scifi" + pulp fiction and cinema refs, the worldbuilding is sososo fun because of that

[viral pilot]

Yeah I can dig that. I guess that's why they're doing the mythics as very dnd esque

[shrewd pivot]

Tracer had a DnD themed season to fit her mythic even!

JunkerQueen is straight up a WoW warrior subclass, same basic kit, I don't recall what subclass tho atm

[viral pilot]

She's very Barbarian

Idk WoW tho personally

[shrewd pivot]

And someone informed that Emre is VERY similar to "Ghost in the Machine" Warlock subclass in DnD

[shrewd pivot]

WoW is heavily inspired by DnD, worth looking over the classes in WoW. Brigitte plays like a holy paladin from WoW as well

[viral pilot]

Oh that's cool

Oh speaking of that, I was wondering if they're going to do just story themed seasons now

Or if we'll get things like DND and mirrorwatch

[wise grotto]

I don’t think his actual in game design feels like that at all
Like
Aside from purely his skins for it
I don’t see the necromancer part of his base kit and stuff

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah and Efi with Orisa is very similar to a DnD Battlesmith Artificier. Battlesmith Artificiers have a "Steel defender" aka like Orisa, who do most of the fighting

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra was based on a pve enemy that would summon warbots with a Pharoah theme and sand weapon. Ramattra still retains the skeletal look, commands warbots (non living robots) and his focus is on preserving awakened omnics to then "revive them" in a new world

Def not mechanics really, I don't know necromancer classes kits too well but yeah, Ramattra doesn't have a necromancer class summon or anything like necromancers usually do.

Lifeweaver is a druid but doesn't transform like DnD druids do either, but it's still pretty apt description for Lifeweaver imo

[viral pilot]

I guess WoW must be a good way to pull new character ideas for Overwatch then

[shrewd pivot]

Oh pardon, Battlesmith Artificier is from DnD! But yeah WoW is also a pool of inspo, Torbjörn was stated to be directly inspired by the WoW dwarf

[clever crown]

Was it ever explained how mercy can just, revive people?

[viral pilot]

It's just a mechanic in game, lorewise she's just healing

[shrewd pivot]

Devs explained Mercy rez is not canon, just game mechanics.

In the overwatch 2 announcement trailer we see what rez looks like in universe, Mei was downed in critical condition and Mercy had a glowy hand that helped heal Mei. I don't think Mercy in canon can actually bring fully dead people back to life

[clever crown]

Yeah I thought so mid typing

[viral pilot]

Yeah and I guess Anran is also not actually coming back from death

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, you can assume it's being "downed" similar to the "downed" mechanic in PVE missions, and Anran is just getting back up

[viral pilot]

Ah

[shrewd pivot]

Man im so excited for new heroes

Maybe there's a dnd class that fits the drone hero, I am kind of familiar with 'hunter' classes that use a falconry pet to do attacks

Also a funny coincidence, Mizuki's lore video drops tomorrow and it's a blood moon across the western hemisphere tomorrow lol, bad omennnnns /j

[viral pilot]

Forgive the non lore question but what role do you like best?

[shrewd pivot]

For world building/story or gameplay?

[viral pilot]

Yeah both actually

[shrewd pivot]

In ow1 my favorite characters were Lúcio and Zenyatta lore wise and vibes wise, I played Lúcio and Moira and Reinhardt and DVA on play station

For Overwatch 2 Ramattra was introduced and he is my favorite character lore wise, pretty fun to play too. I played Sigma, Ramattra, DVA, Lúcio, Moira, and Mercy in ow2 on pc.

I stopped playing after the genai esports sprays happened a season ago, because I personally don't play games that have genai in them. I believe the genai sprays were removed tho! The weekly recalls dev posts have what I can only call genai text too, so unfortunately I haven't played any of the new heroes.

I enjoy overwatch worldbuilding tho!

[viral pilot]

I didn't know there was ai

[shrewd pivot]

Genai in the weekly recall update posts, unfortunately.

No genai in game, except for the 2 esports sprays of Wuyang on a keyboard and Juno&Venture, both sprays were removed though. I personally am a "one and done" kind of person, so I won't be playing. No hate to anyone who plays f2p still! It's just my personal choice to not play anymore.

As for the weekly recall using genai text:

"Every game matters. Wins carry extra weight. Losses sting. And if you can keep your streak alive, you’ll walk away with exclusive Signatures, Comp Points, and bragging rights that say, “I thrived when it was sweaty.” This isn’t just ranked; it’s ranked with the volume cranked while you Drive."

"This isn't just X, it's Y" bs and it has nonsense metaphors that don't relate to the paragraph, obvious genai text imo.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24234069/undefined/

I still really enjoy overwatch's worldbuilding so that's why im here in this channel haha.
I'm sure there's many artists not using genai working on overwatch.

[viral pilot]

I understand. Sucks that it exists

[shrewd pivot]

Thankfully Aaron Keller seems to write real posts

[viral pilot]

Oh nice I'll have to tune in when it releases as I like to hear what you and the others here have to say about it so I don't have to scroll all the way up

But I suspect that it'll just be Mizuki being "the demons are out to get me" or something lol

[shrewd pivot]

Usually the lore videos release midday, atleast in my timezone

[viral pilot]

Poor guy might be sharing a padded cell with sigma if he keeps it up

[shrewd pivot]

I hope we get hints about what what his badluck curse actually is. Paranoia, or an actual conspiracy group making things look like bad luck? Etc

[viral pilot]

That'd definitely be nice

[brittle sky]

I mean I think most people are more concerned about the chance to get anima technobabble locked down vs. Whether or not a family's personal belief in bad luck has a physical foundation

[edgy meadow]

the sprays are one thing, i personally call nonsense on this

genai took its language patterns from somewhere

can people not use 'its not x its y' speech patterns anymore

this is just tinfoil hat conpsiracy

[shrewd pivot]

Anima tech is pretty straightforward tho, no?

Kiriko’s dad makes a weapon, then adds in the Anima tech which allows for energy weapon use, Anima often mimicking a spiritual symbol like Dragons or what not

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, "This isn't just ranked; it's ranked with the volume cranked while you Drive" is straight up the unfitting kind of metaphors LLMs produce

[viral pilot]

I would like to see Toshiro

[edgy meadow]

its a rhyme, not a metaphor

ranked, cranked

its a stupid cheesy joke

corporate coded, sure

gen-ai? i dont believe you

[shrewd pivot]

Drives being used in that context does not make sense, it has nothing to do with the paragraph it is in.

And genai uses rhymes like that too. It doesn't read like actual human writing for the context. The other sections of the post have this similar genai-esque stilted writing.

Compare it to newer weekly posts, where it's very clear a human wrote it.

[edgy meadow]

ive read all the weekly posts. i genuinely dont see it. and the harder the accusation, the more i need convincing to believe it. still im not gonna insist any further than this since i dont stand anything from going on about it

https://tenor.com/view/oh-the-misery-everybody-wanna-be-my-enemy-cat-gif-25172445

[brittle sky]

That doesn't super make sense though, yeah?

[shrewd pivot]

No more than inti warriors tech tbf haha.

More lore on Anima tech would be great tho!

[edgy meadow]

we'll get there in 6 months surely

[brittle sky]

i mean, solar energy is like... a thing. Dragon energy is not.

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair.

I personally follow updates on the genai technology advancements (it relates to biomedical uses of genai, like genai being used for protein folding, etc) so I personally feel it's worth pointing out when I see something reasonably genai in media. (Genai doesn't belong in arts)

I have had others agree with me, and others disagree, but I think it's important to inform regardless. The sprays tho were def genai images, I can clarify genai artifacting in those images if you wish? /genuine

[shrewd pivot]

I presume it's something similar enough to hard light technology or something, where it's holograms of sorts being used as weapons

[brittle sky]

hardlight is a specific tech, and one closely associated with and aggressively guarded by a morally dubious megacorp.

we can't just throw it at every sfx we don't understand.

[shrewd pivot]

The Doomfist gauntlet is tech from an unknown origin, Zenyatta's meditation orbs are tech from an unknown origin, and inti warrior tech is presumably advanced ancient tech. Anima tech being vague isn't out of the option due to other tech also being vague.

Hard light is essentially using light to manifest matter. Inti warrior tech uses light as a weapon.

It's not that Anima tech is actually hard light tech, I just mean it's probably using a similar idea of scifi energy holograms being used as weapons

The other option is that Anima tech is a reference to Jung psychology Anima/Animus to Persona, and Anima tech is scifi psionics.

Or Anima tech is just straight up chi lol and overwatch has broken the no magic rule (I count alchemy as magic, which chi is a part of Chinese alchemy)

[humble escarp]

every time emre respawns, a name appears in the top right corner of the screen

[edgy meadow]

its extremely reasonable, im not saying youre wrong for being cautious. and I also follow gen-ai technology advancement (compsci undergrad). I just dont see it in this specific scenario.

[humble escarp]

has anyone noticed it and does it have any potential lore implications

[edgy meadow]

its not a name but its text in finnish, i think people translated it by now

[humble escarp]

interesting

where can i find the translation

[shrewd pivot]

I am not sure, sorry.
I have not seem this text myself, do you have a picture? Feel free to dm me the image

oh it's 1 am already?
Welp. Insomnia sure is a way to start off Mizuki lore video day lol

[peak escarp]

[VAROITUS] LUVATON KÄYTTÖYRITYS KIRJATTU. LÄHDE: TUNNISTAMATON.
270869 -- 080394 -- 00031.25
EHEYSTARKISTUS KÄYNNISSÄ...

Translated it says:

[WARNING] UNAUTHORIZED OPERATING ATTEMPT LOGGED. SOURCE: UNKNOWN.
270869 -- 080394 -- 00031.25
INTEGRITY CHECK IN PROGRESS... ```

[shrewd pivot]

Doctor the G.O.A.T. /pos

[peak escarp]

eh I just googled it

someone on reddit translated it

[shrewd pivot]

Fair enough, but thanks for getting it! @humble escarp here is your answer

[peak escarp]

there's also "Aloitussekvenssi", which means "activation sequence"

[shrewd pivot]

So this plays out on the screen when you select Emre?
I wonder if it's supposed to mean Emre is controling himself which is the unauthorized operating attempt,

or if this is some kind of meta joke that the player is the unauthorized operating attempt lol

[peak escarp]

probably a meta joke

[shrewd pivot]

Inb4 the eye conspiracy is videogame characters being aware they are in a video game/simulation. "I would know if I was a robot. Wouldn't I?" /j

Now that I think of robots.

We are getting Drone hero, horned-probably-Hashimoto hero, D.Mon before Blizzcon, yeah?

That leaves cyborg-or-omnic hero and trenchcoat omnic hero after blizzcon. Interesting that they stacked human heroes releases prior to blizzcon

[bold fern]

lets do some powerscaling cuz im bored

[rare trail]

ooh

hmm for the top tier im not a big fan or ram jq ball and rein

they just kinda lag behind the others heavy i feel like

[bold fern]

Jq is a queen for a reason and ball was a champion

[rare trail]

ram doesnt have nemesis in lore hes just kinda a battle robot without a gun

[bold fern]

rein is a crusader

[bold fern]

wait

deadass

[rare trail]

jq is a demon in the colleseum style thing but i think thats kinda a small pond situations

[rare trail]

yeahhh

hes like

politically very powerful

like the leader of a country would be

but like idk the president of the united states is still just a regular human

oh one thing is doom winston mauga and orisa

so winston and doom fought in his origin which is a fight winston won since we know it put doom in jail

[bold fern]

yeah doom is lower for a reason

[rare trail]

however doom did just fight tracer and genji, but also he kinda fly swatted them he didnt seem tired, but also also doom is kinda arrogant sometimes

[bold fern]

hes inconsistant

[rare trail]

yeahh

[bold fern]

draw with mauga no guantlet

lose to monke with guantlet

[rare trail]

plot armour is a major issue lowk

[bold fern]

but a gorilla is 10x srronger than a human

[rare trail]

was the draw with no gauntlet ?

[bold fern]

winston base is prob

20x

primal is def 50x

idk i dont wanna get punched by a gorilla for sure

even if doom has cybernetics

[rare trail]

the game ofc doesnt follow this but there is a major cost to that strength

gorillas get tired very very quickly

humans dont really notice it because you have no other frame of reference but we are built for endurance

[shrewd pivot]

Powerscaling doesn't really work for overwatch because a situation can have plot armor, or a strategic character can outdo a physically stronger hero, so it's hard to say who will win. That said... my guess lol (created prior to latest hero releases)

Domina is green tier bc she uses tech like a gadget similar to Lúcio,

Mizuki is "human with powerful weapon" tier along side Kiriko,

JPC is bottom green tier if she has a normal cat body,

Anran might be yellow tier if her Wuxing tech actually heals her, if not, then green tier alongside Wuyang

Emre is "Highly tactical prosthetic augmented human" orange tier alongside Sombra, but might go magenta Echo tier if Emre can replicate anything.

[rare trail]

best distance runners on the planet

[rare trail]

i like this

i like how the tiers are more specific yk

idk abt soldier

maybe im a hater tho

he got pieced up by reaper in old soldiers

[shrewd pivot]

Soldier76 is a super soldier with genetically enhanced strength, agility, etc so that's why he's there

Yeah. It's more... potential scale? LW is above bc his biolight is maybe more innate to initiate than Lúcio using his tech or Baptiste using gadgets as a reflex

[rare trail]

hardlight and biolight arent very defined

its hard to balance gameplay with interesting worldbuilding

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, I just meant it as who can protect themselves easier. Otherwise Lúcio and Baptiste would be in Symm tier, I think gadget users have a slower reflex time than hardlight architects

[rare trail]

i see

[bold fern]

lw can be stronger if he used it for offensive purposes

[rare trail]

sigma and illari are weird cases

[bold fern]

poisonous flowers exist 👀

[rare trail]

they just havent really done anything

like illari blew up a massive building but its not clear if thats repeatable

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's why I say in theory

Even Sigma's powers aren't necessarily op in canon, i just deem even slight gravity pushes as op. You only need to push a human's brain or omnic circuit a certain way to eliminate them. And Echo can replicate things, so in theory she has big damage potential.

I think a character stats list would be more useful, like agility strength intelligent dexterity tankiness etc

[shrewd pivot]

Updated "potential damage in theory" tier ig lol

[vernal wagon]

Zarya is borderline superhuman smt

[shrewd pivot]

Zarya is strongest nonaugmented woman in the world in canon (she does deadlifting sport). augmented humans are barred from sport competitions as seen with Akande and Mauga

[blazing badge]

I really never understood Doomfists strength

He seems like he only has a powerful arm to punch with

[shrewd pivot]

Akande was a dambe martial arts champion, dambe is basically hard-core boxing with no protective gear, can result in death. Akande is strong but also very tactical, as seen in how Akande defeated Tracer and Genji.

The Doomfist gauntlet is a powerful weapon, enough for the first Doomfist to protect the area from 1st omnic crisis warbots, then the second Doomfist to terrorize Numbani, and then third Doomfist Akande to claim his spot in leading Talon

[crystal saffron]

isnt soldier just dude with gun?

[civic lynx]

I’m pretty sure he was part of some like US military enhancement program same as reaper (obviously moira’s experiments made reaper even more powerful)

[crystal saffron]

lwk didnt knew that at all

[flat sphinx]

is that grey stuff on genjis face a mask or prosthetic? never quite could tell

[dense garnet]

He's Captain America with a gun

Soldier 76 is what Punisher from Marvel wants to be, because Punisher idolizes Captain America

Also I found a new Junkrat and JQ interaction and it's great

"The Queen sure seems to have an interest in me. S'ppose she fancies me? Ha! I'd hate to break her heart!"

"Wh-What was that, Fawkes? You wanna come say that to my fist?"

She stuttered. Junkrat has a chance!

[wooden drift]

I prefer it with hog

[crystal saffron]

or captain america is soldier without gun

🗣️

[dense garnet]

I don't remember if Cap has a no kill rule

Soldier definitely doesn't

[merry mason]

She’s slightly stronger than the current world’s strongest man. Real life world record is 510kg, hers is 512.

[dense garnet]

I wonder if Rein in his prime was stronger than Zarya

Excluding the suit of armor

He's pretty jacked even as an old man

[wise grotto]

What theory puts echo that high
And I wouldn’t people who control water or both Zarya and venture Zarya being massively physically stronger then even an average human (same with rein)
Torb has a prosthetic that can make lava
Ventures weapon is the second heaviest in game

[broken eagle]

If i Remember right,Echo can copy abilities of people when she is using her ult,so she colud in Theory copy sigma and his abilities

[wise grotto]

We don’t know if she can literally copy people exactly like that in reality
It could be more of a zen situation

If she could it would seriously beg to question why they don’t just get her to do that so they can practice against copies of enemies

[broken eagle]

True

[flint thicket]

T minus 2.33 hours before mizuki lore drop

[digital linden]

echo’s in game kit is likely just a dramatic version of what she can actually do. she probably just copies personalities, movements, patterns etc. i don’t think she could literally copy sigma’s abilities nor the literal appearance of other people

[cosmic crest]

I'm honestly done even humouring the idea that duplicate isn't cannon

The extent of it might not be the same as in game. Sigma's abilities like you say may be beyond it's reach, but there is no real reasons to assume she couldn't copy weapon systems/physical structures etc.

It's like the most interesting part of her as well

Having it not be cannon actually puts her story into question. What makes her so special or dangerous if she's just a robot with guns and is pretty good at learning? Why was she feared a locked away?

Now a machine that can duplicate any weapon system and has the ability to think for itself and possibly go rogue, I can believe that would be considered dangerous, and people would want to seal it away.

[digital linden]

i can actually see her duplication being cannon if it was like a hardlight projector that surrounds her with the silhouette of the copied target

like an illusion cloak

[digital linden]

truetrue

[cosmic crest]

I always thought Echo was similar to Megaman X. Blue robot with a gun on their hand, the ability to copy weapon systems and to freely think for itself is sealed away as it's feared it could turn on humanity. Then years later they are freed to fight evil.

[young dragon]

Echo is unique. But it takes her time to learn new abilities and it's likely she cannot use them to the same extent as who she copies. She is the most advanced non-omnic on the planet. But she is an echo of whatever she learns, grows from, and adapts to.

[shrewd pivot]

In his new overwatch skin, it seems Genji has a prosthetic jaw.

[ripe cloud]

everyone knows venture is the strongest character (silly)

[wise grotto]

Venture is strong for a normal human being
The weapon they use isn’t exactly light and they swing that shit around

[vapid ginkgo]

Guys I just started overwatch but I’m just wondering a good damage character

[edgy meadow]

wrong channel i fear

[vapid ginkgo]

oh

sorry

[dense garnet]

Venture has asthma and works as a digger

At least if you believe her interaction with Ramattra

Their* i did it again rip

[dense garnet]

Wait until LW starts using biolight to conjure actual animals

Or even worse, monstrous plants

[wise grotto]

I mean they don’t have stamina then
doesn’t make venture not physically strong

[edgy meadow]

https://youtu.be/bT6iXb9N9TY?si=7UmCrhcUM7xp6I3E

[south torrent]

I’m in love

[sullen girder]

I guess this week we are focusing on mizuki

[brittle sky]

yeah we knew this. was in the name. Presumably week 5 is anran and will actually address the attack

s3 hero reference (a she Mizuki fears if he breaks from the hashimoto or if they find out Toshiro is shirking), some implication Mizuki may be mixed given he's a natural blond (hey, kid named mizu who's mixed race japanese with blue eyes). Rest we effectively knew from his bio

[hot rivet]

oo new lore thing

[brittle sky]

prose version may reveal more. Notably no anima technobabble in the dialogue only section, but that makes sense.

[viral pilot]

That was the best of these lore videos we got so far

This style I mean

[hot rivet]

okay so i felt like i learned literally nothing

[viral pilot]

That's what I immediately thought of: the silhouette with the horns

They also used the same music from Dragons cinematic which was a nice callback

[shrewd pivot]

It was confirmed by the VA that the voice direction notes for that line was that Venture didn't actually have asthma. So Venture does not canonically have asthma

[viral pilot]

And we got to see Toshiro

[edgy meadow]

im in class so i cant watch the story rn unfort

will share thoughts later

[shrewd pivot]

The video was interesting. That's also interesting that Kiriko’s dad gave Mizuki the weapon before going on his spy mission...

I like that his paper dolls ability relates to his childhood situation and toys he had access too

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I would assume his hair wasn't dyed as a kid too.
And I guess the horned hero might be a Hashimoto higher up, maybe elder(not old, but leader) or heir similar to what Hanzo was to Shimada clan

Also depending on what honorifics Mizuki uses towards Kiriko’s dad, we can get an idea for how close the two were, if it was a distant mentorship or a more father figure role.

Ojisan (common informal 'uncle' used for middle aged men) and Ojiisan (grandfather) are two different things, if Mizuki is using Ojiisan (grandfather) that's definitely a closer familial relationship than distant mentor imo

We shall see once the text version of the story pops up, but my guess is Ojisan (informal uncle used for middle aged men) bc Mizuki is more relaxed/informal

"his longtime mentor and confidante provides the advice needed to set him on the right path."

I would argue "Confidante" is what Hanzo has with Kiriko’s dad too?

[merry mason]

I mean I wouldn’t know for all we know he was just the guy that makes the swords

[peak escarp]

sounds like oji-san to me

no long i sound

the Hashimoto heir would be awesome to have as a hero

[brittle sky]

Honestly making the hashimoto less dynastic to contrast them as new blood vs. The stodgy shimada would be cooler to me.

[merry mason]

Sounded like the mystery girl is an elder rather than an heir, no?

[brittle sky]

An elder or veteran enforcer seems more interesting than heir.

[peak escarp]

the "she" Mizuki mentions is probably the Hashimoto elder

not necessarily the s3 hero

[brittle sky]

I'd be shocked if they swerved s3 into someone else and were building up a later hero or NPC

[shrewd pivot]

Oh I mean it's the way Hanzo interacts with Kiriko’s dad in the heroes ascendant story.

Kiriko’s family seems to be... for lack of a better term, the "service-provider tradesmith" family line, it's a common trope in Japanese stories to have royal clan lines and then accompanied family lines specializing in trades like training or swordsmith etc

Kiriko’s mom does the sword training (Hanzo states they saw Kiriko’s mom as a mother figure after there own mom left the picture) and Hanzo seems to be close with Kiriko’s dad as a confidante bc of how Kiriko’s family provided 'service' the Shimadas. (Books words not mine)

I get the feeling Kiriko’s dad is a mentor + confidante to Mizuki in the same way, under that "tradesmith family" context after seeing the interactions

[peak escarp]

in Where Honor Lives, the Hashimoto elders were led by a shrewd woman with platinum hair

[brittle sky]

How the hell is someone visibly shrewd?

[peak escarp]

idk

[shrewd pivot]

Same but it's unclear what age the horned hero will be. Looks kind of like a youthful design but idk. So it's higher up in Hashitomo leadership, just unclear if it's actually an elder or like a young heir stepping into place

[peak escarp]

on the one hand I would love more older heroes, especially more elder women

but on the other hand... Blizzard has been leaning towards younger heroes

[brittle sky]

Doesn't seem super youthful by silhouette.

And like, do we need a third woman character in a years time who is defined as a villain because of her dynastic legacy to an evil org? And who we probably would take the heir status to make her weirdly young

[shrewd pivot]

Shrewd as in, cold and calculated. Shrewd winds, etc

[shrewd pivot]

I agree. I think an older character would fit better, but ehem. Domina isn't even old nor has wrinkles but that's a part of her story. (Looks around) (I personally think Domina should have been older)

I would hope we can get an older lady like Ashe tbh. Ashe is very popular so there wouldn't be any reason to make the Hashimoto younger to "appeal" to more players but eh

[clever crown]

I can’t believe me and vendetta and Michael beat doomfist 😂✌️

[brittle sky]

Ashe isn't even middle aged. She's like 40 flat? 41?

[shrewd pivot]

Ashe's face sculpt model looks older looking compared to other lady heroes is what I mean. And 41 is older imo? I would argue 40+ is on the older side, compared to the youthful looking 20s we've been getting for East Asia

[brittle sky]

If our range of characters is 18-65, 41 isn't even in the upper half.

[merry mason]

I would feel like it would make story sense if whoever s3 girl is happened to be the one that gave mizuki a chance.

And it would be weird if they were the same age if she was

[clever crown]

Sigma is 64 I believe correct me if I’m wrong

[merry mason]

Sigma is an outlier also I think Vio was talking about real life

[dense garnet]

Sigma is a gen alpha

[dense garnet]

Reinhardt is a year younger than Sigma

Iirc

[merry mason]

His minds like that because he’s an iPad kid

[dense garnet]

They watched it together

[brittle sky]

What are you talking about. Give mizuki a chance? In the yokai gang, that's kiriko. Amid the hashimoto, his handler would likely be his senior, especially if she's someone he actively fears.

[dense garnet]

I think that s3 should be one of Mizuki's superiors that goes out to punish Mizuki after he officially betrays the Hashimoto

[brittle sky]

Like the she he referenced twice as the one to fear amid the elders.

[merry mason]

Ok I’m talking about who you’re calling his handler. I mean the person that saw him as useful and forgave his debts in exchange for joining the clan.

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair. I was referring to older past a middle aged line, so like 40+ being older. I would call a 40+ man older too. 🤔 i should change my wording then to better communicate, pardon. /genuine

Sojourn and Ana and Moira are 40+, idk if the Hashimoto hero would be 50+ but I could see 30-40, if the character isn't an heir and younger.

[clever crown]

Merch does NOT look 39 😭🙏

In my opinion

[brittle sky]

that would be someone higher up to have that authority. which would not mean 22.

[merry mason]

Which is what I’m saying

[brittle sky]

I'm sorry, I totally misread

though you were saying it was weird if they were not the same age

[shrewd pivot]

She uses her tech to stay young ig haha (not unlikely tbh)

Mercy was aged up a few years to fit into Torbjörn lore

[lean creek]

ive seen some memes abt mauga not actually being all that evil and that hes only part of talon cuz hes bored

i know thats prolly an exaggeration but whats his deal actually? what does he want?

[shrewd pivot]

Mauga is "live today like it's your last" and he has little regard for other's safety. He doesn't think he's a good person either really, iirc his story with Baptiste addresses that. He's incredibly smart and plays aloof to get what he wants. He is with Talon because he is getting something out of it

[soft carbon]

Chaos and mayhem, prolly

[azure fable]

bruh i’m lowk nervous what is mauga gonna do when he gets to junkertown

[lunar mesa]

Jdicbe

Jecibe

W word

[shrewd pivot]

A showdown. It's going to be great bc anything could happen with the junkers!

[azure fable]

true dat

[shrewd pivot]

Text story is up!

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/cursebreaker/

[merry mason]

You know people always say “this villain is not evil because of x reason” but like what would be evil then?

[shrewd pivot]

Actually harmful intent(Vendetta wanting power and to hurt others), or truely harmful actions despite the logic behind it (Moira)

[broken heath]

Dang, I never thought we would hear about Kiriko's dad ever again. 😅

[merry mason]

They’re both very evil

[lean creek]

does Vendetta just want to kill Reaper or sumn else?

[merry mason]

She also want to take over the world or something

[shrewd pivot]

“An anima avatar weapon,”

Oh. Oh this might mean Anima tech might actually be Anima/Animus based.... bc Anima/Animus is an internal avatar of sorts, an archetype
(Jung meant collective unconscious as instinctual archetypes like: mother goddess, trickster god, etc. It's like how there's instinctual fears of spiders for example, but applied to story telling where Jung asserts instinctual ideas of trickster god, etc. Very much mysticism but that's the Jung psychology theory of Anima/Animus. "Persona" the game uses this theory, so maybe Anima tech is a spin on that Jung psychology scifi)

So an Anima avatar would basically be "what archetype are you?" And yeah lol Mizuki fits Kappa archetype (arm lost, in debt, provides labor and medicine). Genji and Hanzo fit azure Dragons archetype. Kiriko fits Kitsune archetype. Etc

I really like that set up bc its Kiriko’s dad making an avatar for others, essentially being a fable story teller by saying "hm... you are similar to a Kappa's archetype, use this" as a personalized gift, which is very much in line with Japanese story telling of making fables out of irl events, similar to the story telling Hanzo and Genji "Dragons" short embodies. That's really fun world building with a meta narrative attached

Also yeah the honorifics is Ojisan, informal for middle aged men

Overwatch's side for this week:

[clever belfry]

what are all the factions in overwatch? its overwatch, talon, viskar, hashimoto, yokai, null sector, am i missing any?

[brittle sky]

phreaks, junkers, shambali, shimada kinda, deadlock gang, los muertos...

[civic lynx]

https://x.com/uniwatchow/status/2028879836798709817?s=46 does this seem likely to yall

Jetpack Uniwatch (@UniwatchOW)

Kuruoka. That must be her name

The way Mizuki talks about her...she sounds ruthless

X · Mar 3, 2026, 5:07 PM

[clever belfry]

oh my gosh thank you

[hushed shard]

its interesting to see the mizuki story, i always thought hed be a good spy but it seems like hes just a scared little boy scared of a curse

[dense garnet]

MIZUKI STORY IT'S TIME

Lock in everyone

[brittle sky]

No, she is seperate from kuruoka. She (referenced a couple times) is either a feared member among or enforcer for the hashimoto elders. Kuruoka is a regional boss for the hashimoto running kanezaka, seen previously in the kiriko manga, and is mentioned in the context of 'we aren't telling him about me because we don't trust his people not to leak'

[hushed shard]

to me it seems like mizuki is only fighting for hashimoto out of fear and will eventually turn to overwatch

[brittle sky]

...ironclad guild, deepsea raiders (likely defunct), crusders (possibly defunct), the collective, oasis ministries, the rebel apes on horizon lunar colony, lucheng interstellar, and the pathfinder society

[brittle sky]

I mean they said that from the jump yeah, that he was likely to inevitably defect

[hushed shard]

oh

why tf would they say that

[clever belfry]

some of these i genuinely don’t remember but then again i don’t know that im 100% versed in the lore

[shrewd pivot]

Big ones are Overwatch vs Talon

Nullsector is chilling in the artic or antarctic rn

There's: Ironclad, Wayfinders, Shambali, Atlantic archeology which seem non violent.

Then Vishkar, Oasis, Lucheng (Lunar colony) which do outright harmful unethical things but not really battling per se...?

Helix, Phreaks, Hashimoto, Yōkai gang, Los Muertos, Junkers, Deadlock gang, are not afraid to do battling.

Edit: Deep-sea raiders might be defunct, yeah. Crusaders too.

[civic lynx]

Just to set up his lore ig 😭

They say at spotlight if mizuki was to be “lost” to the yokai or even worse ow it would be a blow to vendetta’s plans for the region, already setting up that as his future

[brittle sky]

they said it like the moment they introduced him.

[hushed shard]

"Mizuki runs with the hashimoto in japan, ordered to become a spy for overwactch, spoiler he switches up"

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah p much, heavy foreshadowing that he will defect

[hushed shard]

i hate when companies do that, stop telling me stuff and show me it

[civic lynx]

Also in the conquest artwork mizuki is fighting for OW

[shrewd pivot]

Honestly? With the unlucky number of 44, Wuyang and Mizuki should have switched places, release Mizuki on unlucky number 44th hero appearing as a normal Yōkai member or something, then release Wuyang and Anran together, and then reveal Hashimoto horned hero to show Mizuki was actually a spy this whole time for a dramatic reveal

[hushed shard]

idk how it should have worked

personally i think with the update (the overhall) i think they should have done a soft reboot on the lore, especially with rumours of a show/movie system coming

[shrewd pivot]

We don't need a reboot on lore tbh. Only some adjustments to fix timeline inaccuracies

[hushed shard]

im not saying a fully reboot, just a soft one, something that tells us the story again with all the new added characters

beyond just the 5 added, all added heros since launch, i think it would help the lore more

but i suppose if the rumour are true is what theyll do

[shrewd pivot]

Oh you mean like a series reboot, not lore reboot? (Sorry for the misunderstanding, im used to 'lore reboot' meaning something like the Disney lore reboot for star wars that retconned all past star wars legends lore)

Yeah it would be cool to get a TV series on neo overwatch with all the new characters

[hushed shard]

yeah i think thats how it should go, im thinking about this from the view point of a new player who is interested in the lore, right now it seems a bit confusing to fit in all these characters where a tv show could really help tell the story they want

[shrewd pivot]

It absolutely is hard to understand as a new player imo

They need to make a timeline on the official website. No years needed, just order of lore pieces likes cinematics and text stories etc

[hushed shard]

the only years i think would be important are the year the war started, the year overwatch was born and fell ect, we dont need silly years like when say kiriko decided to go against the hashimoto

if the rumours are true they could create possibly the best gaming tv show in current years, the doom fist animation was a huge hit and drove home that its what people wanted

[shrewd pivot]

In the PVE codex: 28 years ago in ow2, the 1st omnic crisis started. 26 years ago in ow2, the 1st omnic crisis ended.

Overwatch was founded during the first year of the 1st omnic crisis.

[hushed shard]

thats truly all we need in terms of years, and to put forth the year is something like 2090? 2070 ish, thats all we actually need

itll be interesting to see how it all plays out, the addition to a lore page in game was an amazing start and has me watching them all again

[brittle sky]

I mean, we got stuck for years telling and retelling the overwatch origin story and the arc of og overwatch as an org. Would rebooting it to say it again and say 'and emre was also there' be all that helpful?

[shrewd pivot]

Using Junkrat’s leap year birthday, Ramattra's build dates during the crisis, and Echo's date from a post, my best guess is that ow1 is in 2077, and ow2 is in 2079
The omnic crisis would be in 2051

[shrewd pivot]

For a TV show, yes, to make it digestable to new audiences. It could focus on neo overwatch but have a 1st episode flashback to recap some basic events. Or maybe just flashbacks in general, to explore lore

[brittle sky]

I meant more for an in game reboot.

[hushed shard]

im talking in terms of a tv show, its the best time for them to tell a coherent story start to finish without needing to backtrack or retell, obviously long time players of the game know the story but if its coming to a tv show which is rumoured they should 100% go for a soft reboot

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah! Tho we are not talking about in game reboot. Overwatch doesn't need that, it def needs to move forward which is what the Vendetta arc is doing

[hushed shard]

id like to see more lore from the junkers now you mention junkrat, i feel like theres so much lore there alone