lore-discussion

[robust pelican]

And yes ramattra might be right in this case, the sapience omnics and humans have are curses in their own way

[shrewd pivot]

Oh for sure, nullsector units in canon are mindless drones, it makes full sense to go all out lol.

Genji’s comment is more so the philosophy behind the creator, a bit of meta narrative to help characterize Ramattra from the writers

[robust pelican]

But yea, zen does deserve a better story

Maybe a human does it instead... somehow

[shrewd pivot]

Eh, I think i prefer Zenyatta ending up as maybe being connected/tapped into the Iris in someway to explain Zenyatta's unusual powers like the inexplicable floating.

[robust pelican]

Oh he definitely is

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra would straight up sacrifice himself to do an awakening if it meant he could creator more awakened omnics imo.

[robust pelican]

No thrusters, no nothing

[robust pelican]

I think that would be difficult. He's not exactly enlightened like Aurora, and i doubt zen is too, at this point in time

[peak escarp]

tbh I don't think he would - despite his claims Ramattra doesn't seem like the self-sacrificing type

he's got an ego

[robust pelican]

I think he would deliberate heavily on it

His ego and empathy would clash

[peak escarp]

whereas in Zenyatta was presented with the opportunity, I don't think he would hesitate

[shrewd pivot]

Really?
His writing thus far painted him as matyr, if anything his ego would be "only I can save omnic kind" + plus Zenyatta has to remind Ramattra does not bear this on his shoulders alone + plus Ram has some darker suggestions as stated prior with the ||suicidal|| behavior thing.

[robust pelican]

That's the emotional conflict. Ram would hesitate to let zenyatta do so

Ram is so ready to sacrifice himself. He's putting all the burden on himself

[peak escarp]

but Ramattra would want to be there to shepherd the next omnic generation, and protect them from humanity

[shrewd pivot]

See, I don't think either would hesitate. They are two sides of the same philosophy coin.
Zenyatta would do so with optumism (if this can bring peace, I shall) selflessmess
Ramattra would do so with pessimism (there is no other choice, i must) selflessness

[robust pelican]

If things go well, he would want to do that, but if push comes to shove

[robust pelican]

Fuck you're right

That"s good

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I really really like Ramattra and Zenyatta being this like. Idk how to describe it exactly, you know how gods/observers talk about human civilization in fantasy or mythos media? One god has given up hope on humanity, but the other god retains hope in humanity?

Ramattra and Zenyatta philosophies kind of touch on that, they feel like observers of humanity narratively. It's really fun.

I like that Zenyatta has hope for humanity.
And what better antagonist for an optumistic future series than Ramattra who had lost hope in humanity?

[robust pelican]

It's a very very good dynamic now that you mention it

Like the two orbs zen has

Orbs of harmony and discord

[shrewd pivot]

That's a game mechanics only, not canon.

Zen ult, Zen Harmony orb, Zen Discord orb, Reaper souls, and Mercy rez was confirmed by devs to not be canon.

That said, Zenyatta represents yin yang philosophy with the Harmony and Discord orbs.

[remote brook]

L Vendetta W Doomfist

[robust pelican]

Maaan it's such a cool concept tho

It could still be explained by sci fi tech too

[shrewd pivot]

I think it's fair to leave the orbs as meditation orbs in canon. Ult too as noncanon, tho tbf... atp that Zen ult could be explained away with the Iris granting hardlight tech holo grams or something lol

The orbs in game represents Zenyatta's therapy :) to find Discord, and to find Harmony

[robust pelican]

This just kinda reinforces my head canon that all in game battles are simulations run by athena or something

[shrewd pivot]

I'm still so interested in Anima tech bc if it ends up being a scifi twist on psychology Persona vs Anima (and therefore a scifi twist on psionics... which psionics is TECHNICALLY scifi even tho I deem it paranormal magics personally)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's a fun headcanon! The hero simulation mode of those hero mastery courses further the head canon too haha.

[robust pelican]

Anima tech?

[shrewd pivot]

The technology Kiriko’s dad makes, confirmed to be Genji’s blade, Hanzo's storm bow, Mizuki's weapon

[robust pelican]

Tho i agree psionics is magic, but it's also kinda scifi in my opinion

[robust pelican]

Oh so that"s what it is

Is it like personalized hardlight?

[robust pelican]

Oh yeaaa. Cause no way doomfist would be fighting alongside tracer

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's /technically/ scifi (electronics + psychic) but I personally deem it paranormal magics akin to sacred geometry mysticism or alchemy.

[robust pelican]

Sacred geometry?

[shrewd pivot]

No confirmation on if it uses hardlight technology in canon, but Anima tech is confirmed to be "energy weapon" tech. So imo, a hologram/hardlight adjacent tech is my guess.

[robust pelican]

Oh very nice. Hope vishkar doesnt get greedy and tries to supress competition

[shrewd pivot]

"Sacred geometry" like the melody Sigma hears, his hyperspheres, etc. It's the mysticism belief that symbols/certain geometry holds energy/power.

Lifeweaver actually references "the flower of life" sacred geometry shape in his origin short.

[robust pelican]

Oh beautiful, amazing

[shrewd pivot]

It's not per se... canon that the flower of life sacred geometry is canon to overwatch, but I feel this hints at some kind of scifi-twist on sacred geometry bc Sigma uses it too, he actually hears the melody

[robust pelican]

Shapes and magic i hold close to my heart but it's a very different kind of shape magic, though it's unrelated to thid

[shrewd pivot]

Actually, Sigma is a scifi twist on psionics now that I think of it lol. He can move things with his mind etc, it's just explained with gravity powers

[robust pelican]

Honestly i suck at physics, i have no theories

[robust pelican]

Yea how is he doing that

[shrewd pivot]

Notably, sacred geometry Mysticism also has theories about human dna.

So since Moira's work was never able to be recreated by others + her own arm decaying in a way she seemingly can't cure herself yet.

Sigma cosmic melody is direct sacred geometry ref (he canonically hears it too) and his hyperspheres are a sacred geometry ref.

Lifeweaver having 'flower of life' sacred geometry symbol + his biolight technology being revolutionary to the point Vishkar can't seemingly recreate it on thier own.

• the Iris having some notable geometry.

My big tinfoil hat theory is that overwatch might have some scifi take on sacred geometry in canon. Like how the gravity powers are a scifi superhero power, maybe there's some cosmic geometry that grants power as a "runes, but with a scifi twist!" thing. Maths are a universal, so they can pull from a variety of cultural geometry symbols to facilitate a global roster of heroes that use this worldbuilding.

Might even explain solar threading geometries/tech.

It's just speculation tho, but it's undeniable both Lifeweaverand Sigma have referenced some kind of sacred geometry influence thus far.

[robust pelican]

You're cooking dawg

Yes i want this

Sci fi runes

Tracer too maybe?

[shrewd pivot]

It did say it was a teleportation matrix that malfunctioned in Tracer's time traveling plane, so this tinfoil hat theory easily fits into that. A 'teleportation matrix' is not canonically elaborated on for what that technology actually is.

IF Tracer's plane accidentally interacted with unknown 'sacred geometry but scifi' shapes, that could explain Tracer's plane accident.

Notably, "leylines"(western alchemy geomancy) and "feng shui" (Wuxing Chinese alchemy geomancy) also place a 'sacred' geometric pattern over earth. Overwatch could use that as "fantasy but with a scifi twist" inspo

Again, it's speculation tho, no direct canon confirms this tinfoil hat theory of mine lol

[fresh plover]

Guys is mizuki part of overwatch or talon?

cuz like hashimoto is allied with talon right

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki is currently with Hashimoto(which is aligned with Talon), but it is highly foreshadowed Mizuki will defect to Yōkai gang(Edit: Kiriko’s gang) or Overwatch.

[cyan wedge]

He’s friends with kiri, so it’s obvious.

[shrewd pivot]

Also, something that has yet to be addressed. If anyone can help explain, please do!

The plane that crashed into Hazard. It seemingly might have been Tracer's plane? Does this mean Tracer's accident occured near that time, or did the plane time travel years forward? Or does that mean there's only one of Tracer's time lost planes that crashed? Or will there be multiple copies of the plane crashing through time?

Venture found an anubis artificial (seemingly Anubis ai related?) In Greek ruins which is a big time displacement. Is it ancient technology? Or is it tech that was time traveled into the past?

The Vanadium that the wayfinders uncovered is also suspicious, in ruins despite being something unseen in nature. Is it ancient tech, ir time traveled tech into the past?

[fresh plover]

yokai is kiris gang right

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, pardon let me add that info

[fresh plover]

do yall think vishkar will be now more prevalent since domina was added

is the owner of wishkar right

[civic lynx]

I don’t think she’s the owner but she is a very high up member and has a lot of power within the company

It does seem vishkar will be given more of a focus once sym and LW’s story begins moving faster and Domina will probably be taken down publicly when vendetta’s talon is defeated

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Domina is one of the (many?) Vice Presidents of Vishkar

[dry pebble]

I come to conclusion Sigma and Sombra's friendship is quite similar to Ice King and Marceline's from AT

[dense garnet]

She's vice president iirc

Basically 2nd in command

[peak escarp]

it was not Tracer's plane - the art shows a jet but the text of his bio says it was a dropship

Tragedy struck when Findlay was caught at the center of a conflict between Overwatch and Talon in Glasgow. A dropship crashed into the flat he grew up in, killing his father and leaving Findlay trapped in the wreckage for almost two days.

also, Hazard's comic says he enlisted to pay for university, but Scotland has subsidized tuition fees

his bio also corrects that:

He eventually enlisted in the military and left behind his old life, convinced that he could find success if he played along with the system.

[brittle sky]

Corporate vice president is different than political. Most companies have vps with different specialties. That's why she's vice president of innovation and development.

[dense garnet]

Is Sym in that same department?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I recall that part lol USA writer moment.

And ah ok a drop ship for the plane crash makes sense then. iirc there was debate about what airship shotdown that dropship? Or should the visuals be completely disregarded? iirc Overwatch covered up things about the crash, unwilling to explain specifics with Hazard, so i wonder if it's Overwatch doing a coverup, or if the ship actually was a dropship. iirc there were two airships depicted, let me go look.

Ty for the information btw!

[brittle sky]

Unclear, and it may not be so neatly departmental, but vendetta does go to domina when she goes over Sanjay's head, and he's sym's direct superior.

[dense garnet]

Do you think Sanjay will ever be playable

[viral pilot]

Could be a year two release along with Mama Hong

Hopefully after because we don't have any grumpy landlord representation yet

[peak escarp]

I have a personal heirarchy of which source to trust if there is conflicting information - artists have been known to make mistakes in comics (Roadhog's belly tattoo is missing in Reflections, for example) so I consider written texts more reliable than visual ones

[shrewd pivot]

Hm Yeah this looks similar to Tracer's plane. And from what it looks like Overwatch wasn't fully honest with what happened with Hazard, covered things up? The "dropship" might be a part of a coverup, not that it was actually a dropship... but the inconsistency is def good to point out.

"Tragedy struck when Findlay was caught at the center of a conflict between Overwatch and Talon in Glasgow. A dropship crashed into the flat he grew up in , killing his father and leaving Findlay trapped in the wreckage for almost two days. Miraculously, Findlay survived, but the accident left him a triple amputee, with chronic pain that would last for the rest of his life and brought an end to his military career. The government offered him basic prostheses, pain medication, and another monthly check to forget about what happened, but Findlay burned at the injustice of it all."

I honestly hope they didn't actually retcon Tracer's jet popping up LOL, oh well if so.

[peak escarp]

also newer information supercedes older information, naturally

[shrewd pivot]

I agree

I just note the use of the words "overwatch jet" in the comic and the imagery, since that plane design isn't some random design to throw in. Very much either or, I suppose.

[peak escarp]

the artists was likely told "an Overwatch plane crashes into his flat" so they looked for Overwatch plane references and that's what they found

or maybe it was a jet in early iterations, but the writers realized the similarity to Tracer's accident so they changed it

[shrewd pivot]

Probably yeah. Tho tbf the plane design is a hard one to find and overwatch dropships exist in game already (some spawn rooms are in overwatch drop ships iirc)

I hope it wasn't just sloppy lore handling bc that was a very intriguing plot element introduced if it really was a coverup of a tracer plane crash

[peak escarp]

also I doubt it's Tracer's jet because the timeline doesn't line up

yes yes, teleporting jet actually jumps through time

but we've never seen anything or anyone jump that far in time

[shrewd pivot]

After Tracer's accident, her time traveling plane could blip into the past or future to crash tbf, it could have been an error that had Tracer lost in time and the plane gets blipped to the incorrect time exit.

[peak escarp]

Hazard was 13 when Tracer's crash happened

the longest we've seen anyone/anything blip has been minutes

to assume the jet jumped years is a bit of a leap

[shrewd pivot]

Planes getting lost in time and crashing years after initial take off is a scifi trope tbf

[peak escarp]

sure, but what evidence is there for it in the OW universe?

[shrewd pivot]

Basically, if it WAS Tracer's plane, it doesn't break lore bc its a time traveling plane.

If it ISN'T Tracer's plane, then ok.

[peak escarp]

I think the simplest explanation applies in this situation: it was just an artist error

[shrewd pivot]

The evidence being overwatch is based on scifi tropes and pulp fiction, so a reference to such a trope isn't entirely zero possibility

[peak escarp]

just because something is a trope in scifi doesn't automatically make it canon in Overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

I agree! I just am saying that since Hazard wasn't given full details of what happened, I think it's hard to say for 100% certainty if it was a coverup or artist images/text error.
I would hope they didn't mess up that hard, but yeah it's fully very possible they did. An explicit canon semantics thing.

[river sparrow]

It’s canon my dude

[brittle sky]

I mean this will be a post farage uk most likely. You never know.

[peak escarp]

fair

but "enlisting to pay for uni" is still more of an American thing

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah.. I would argue it's USA writer bias to not realize the uni thing about Hazard's story, considering the bias has been there for a lot of overwatch details before.

[brittle sky]

They did just explicitly make up a new lady just to have someone else embody vishkar's interest in talon and its corrupt executive class, and made fun of Sanjay as a mediocre nobody when they did sooooo

[brittle sky]

Sure, simple oversight.

[peak escarp]

Sanjay has always been bland, but I was hoping they'd give him a visual upgrade (like Brigitte)

it definitely seems like Domina has taken that away from him

[brittle sky]

Visually yeah. Personality wise too.

[peak escarp]

she even has the breakable concept I wanted (although I envisioned Sanjay wearing hard light armor that could be broken in pieces)

[shrewd pivot]

Sanjay def was written off to the side imo.

Not that he can't be a disposable asset to Vishkar, but he certainly had some more competency in prior portrayals imo

[brittle sky]

His general discomfort with vendetta's talon makes it seem like he may have a role yet, though I'd put money on "has a crisis of conscience and does a deep throat for sym's investigation then has an accident about it" before becomes a playable dude.

[peak escarp]

deep throat?

[brittle sky]

A famous leaker associated with the Nixon admin.

[peak escarp]

what an unfortunate pseudonym

[brittle sky]

They used the term as the inside man in early xfiles

[shrewd pivot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Throat_(Watergate)

Yeah don't Google the term otherwise lol.

[shrewd pivot]

Times change, slang evolves 😅

It was a common named used for referring to whistleblowers in older media like Coarse said

[shrewd pivot]

It would actually be very interesting if Sanjay actually becomes a whistleblower as a support to Symmetra's goal, almost reversing thier dynamic from the prior comic. I always saw Sanjay as corrupt tho bc of his involvement as Talon to Vishkar negotiator, that's something Sanjay would probably go to jail for lol

[brittle sky]

Sure, but even corrupt people have lines they don't sign up for sometimes, especially if you're getting cut out of the credit or benefits as may be the case.

[peak escarp]

it was implied Max would be in that situation when we got the first Overwatch 2 trailer way back in 2019

Max: "I can't do this."
Doomfist: "You made your choice. No one can stop us."

I still wish we could find out what that storyline was going to be

maybe if we got that storyline it wouldn't feel like Doomfist hasn't done anything since coming back

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed! Atleast, based on the text version of the recent Maximilien Vendetta story, Maximilien seems to be scheming something big around Vendetta.

[flint thicket]

My bet is mizuki joins overwatch not to infiltrate them, but to escape the hashimoto.

[weak oak]

Rammatra doesn't own Null Sector right? Do we know who does?

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra is in charge of the Nullsector group that invaded the globe.

[weak oak]

Oh I didn't know he was apart of Null Sector

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra was one of the founding members! https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/ramattra-reflections/

[weak oak]

Do we know who the other founders are

[shrewd pivot]

As described in that story:
Lanet(died during the London Uprising), Zera, and Nameless. Zera and Nameless left Ramattra after Ramattra became too extreme for thier tastes

[brittle sky]

Presuming his story is complete, yeah those.

It is notable the text refers to him as a leader of null sector, not the leader, meaning those founders may still lead their own factions or other leaders may exist or be present.

[weak oak]

Rammatras aura pushed them away smh

[cunning copper]

is anran talon?

[civic lynx]

No she’s OW (idk if she’s in it yet but she will be later this season)

[paper ravine]

So I haven’t kept up with the story in a very long time, since like “Overwatch 2” happened basically, but I’ve been getting the sense from some interactions that the new narrative is Widowmaker wasn’t kidnapped and was willingly turned into what she is now?

[cunning copper]

very nice :)

[brittle sky]

She was kidnapped and conditioned to kill her husband. Just when that trigger went off and really enjoyed the thrill of the kill (unclear if that's a side effect of conditioning or just kinda her thing), and both to escape arrest and to pursue the feeling more she went to talon for further training and enhancement (including turning blue from a lowered heart rate)

[sinful roost]

Is doomfist actually dead or is it larp

[civic lynx]

Considering we never see his body and they chose him to be the OW rep for blizzcon 2026 he very likely is Alive and just in hiding

[sinful roost]

Is he trying to basically downsize the organization as vendetta will probably lose

[civic lynx]

I think it’s possible

Could also be that he no longer wanted to be talon’s leader for whatever reason so let vendetta win

[shrewd pivot]

Honestly if it turns out Doomfist rage baited Vendetta into doing all the heavy lifting in Talon I'll laugh. All Doomfist had to do is fake a death and he gets what he wants (global conflict to cause humanity to evolve) while making Vendetta the fall guy, weeeew

I feel like that outcome might portray Vendetta as too incompetent tho, but Doomfist doing a... let's say "loyalty test" fakeout that causes global chaos, only for Doomfist to come back and lead Talon with even more enthusiastic loyalty from Talon members after Vendetta falls, isn't exactly super ooc for Akande either.
Edit: I don't mean that this will be the case, bc imo it portrays Vendetta as too incompetent.

[sand veldt]

Why does Ashe hate Cassidy

[sinful roost]

Hoes mad

[shrewd pivot]

Ashe made Deadlock gang in such a way that if you are a traitor, you can never return to Deadlock. Ashe thinks Cassidy is a traitor for leaving Deadlock for blackwatch. Yes, Cassidy had the option to rot in jail or join Blackwatch from Reyes offering, but Deadlock gang had gotten people out of jail before so I can see Ashe thinking it was betrayal.

[sand veldt]

Ah

Is bob actually enslaved to Ashe

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, BOB is a butler omnic that chose to return to Ashe after the awakening. BOB raised Ashe since she was a teen, was more of a parent to Ashe than Ashe's real parents who were extremely emotionally neglectful and distant. BOB and Ashe have a Guardian to child kind of dynamic, they have eachothers backs.

[sand veldt]

Ah fair enough

[fleet scaffold]

I dont think Doom is that clever to let V win just so she can do all the work. It's more likely he took the L and will come back even stronger. Likely after some soul searching, and realising where his weakness lies. I imagine his return dialogue would be roughly something like:

Doomfist: "..You were right Vendetta. Talon, after all this time had been dormant for too long. You sought power and took it. But look where you are now. You have fallen greatly since your rise. And this time, I'm here to take power back -- Permanently."

And thus, V loses her plot armor, and we finally have OW's first confirmed dead character.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's my guess too. Imo it's probably more along the lines he will lick his wounds and return.

I just think the idea that he rage baited Vendetta is amusing lol, not that it will happen or anything

[fleet scaffold]

Ah--- well if thats what you meant then yes.

Would be pretty funny if it was a double fake out.

That would really set Doom up as the master manipulator and V as the eagar green rookie that they could play it up as.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I have a feeling Vendetta wouldn't be written to be that incompetent tho, but it would be hysterical to have Doomfist playing 5dchess mind games like that with opponents

[fleet scaffold]

Doomfist: "Nice try Vendetta, but I've already drawn myself as the gigachad, and YOU as the soybean beta cuck!! I win!"

[fleet scaffold]

Pretty sure it would make V seem as though she took the bait because she was too hungry for power.

[shrewd pivot]

I just hope Doomfist's return is satisfying.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. But imo the writing was attempting to portray her as atleast semi competent, not a fool. If she won too easily that would be suspicious to her, surely.

So I think it's more so, doomfist will lick his wounds to later return, grow stronger from adversity etc etc

[fleet scaffold]

It'ss a tale as old as time, but I doubt the devs have any crazy plans for him.

It would be insane to surprise us with him being actually dead though.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that would... honestly suck if Akande was properly dead. #PotentialMan

[fleet scaffold]

Yeah, can you imagine? Introduced as a villain to 1 v 5, only to be killed off because there was no further story for 10 years.

[shrewd pivot]

Certainly it will be Vendetta as the big bad who eventually falls tremendously in a satisfying manner, right?

But yeah Doomfist has way too much potential for entertaining philosophy debates and conflict starting for him to be properly dead, especially after a star wars pitfall with no dead body shown, whilst we saw Antonio's body to confirm Antonio is def dead dead.

But yeah I hope Vendetta's fall is a satisfying finale, the writers said thier aim was to make Vendetta a villainess you "loved to hate" like a wrestler heel kind of deal.

Let's just say, the writers succeeded in making Vendetta a big bad people "love to hate", but maybe not in the way they intended lol.
Atleast the most recent comic "Vengeance comes" finally stopped with the silly plot armor and gave Vendetta "show don't tell" care in writing that her character deserves. I hope Vendetta continues to get that better quality of writing.

[shrewd pivot]

I've been dipping into series that inspired overwatch characters (Genji with Metal Gear Solid for example) and honestly... if the overwatch eye conspiracy ends up being something similar to the Metal Gear series "Wisemen's committee" (secret group created to prevent wars but then became corrupt over time), it wouldn't suprise me, especially after the whole Chernobog god ai of global security being involved additions.
But the eye conspiracy really could be any kind of secret org trope, so it's speculation

[viral pilot]

PSYCHO MANTIS?!

[shrewd pivot]

If only!
(I see Genji as Raiden and Gray Fox esque)

Honestly im really interested in why the eye conspiracy is seemingly allowing vendetta to do what she does, but Emre is being nudged/coerced by the eye conspiracy to work with her Talon. Spying on Vendetta via Emre? Or is the eye conspiracy using Talon for getting access to things? Emre blacked out and seemingly when to Peru and Japan already iirc.

[flint thicket]

Would there be any way to remove the programming from emre?

[shrewd pivot]

Unknown.

Emre is a cyborg human, which is seemingly how he's being controlled by Chernobog god ai of global security.

[flint thicket]

Damn. And I have a bad feelingnif emre ends up permanently gone, freja would have to make the heartbreaking decision to kill him.

[shrewd pivot]

True. Though Emre might pull through in the end tbf, Overwatch is an optumistic future story and interpersonal connections "save" characters in overwatch's narrative

I could see Emre doing a heroic sacrifice too, hard to say

[brittle sky]

Optimistic future should not mean every story ends happily without sacrifice or downside.

[narrow notch]

I found a video i think with all ow 1 cinematic its 4 hours dose that sound about right im new and trying learn story

[shrewd pivot]

Oh ikik, I'm just saying it's not a for sure thing that Emre will die. Could go down a route where Freja has to put Emre down, where Emre does a heroic sacrifice, or Emre manages to pull through, etc. Hard to say what will happen is what I kean, pardon.

[shrewd pivot]

Cinematics are a great start for lore :)

There's a lot of comics and text stories too on the website

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/

[flint thicket]

For mizuki, I can see him joining overwatch to escape the hashimoto's grasp on him. He would tell sojourn everything about him being forced to join the clan to pay off a debt inherited to him from his father, who was killed by most likely the hashimoto.

[narrow notch]

Hopefully the video i got is the right im guess it is . Im sure it is

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki is def defecting from Hashimoto to Yōkai gang (Kiriko’s gang) or Overwatch, heavy foreshadowing text in his bio etc.

iirc Sojourn has a voice line about not jinxing something in PVE? Or it was some kind of superstitious luck thing. If Mizuki joins Overwatch,
I think it would be a pretty fun dynamic between Sojourn and Mizuki both being a "no, don't jinx it" personality with Sojourn being all "no no, he's right, don't jinx it" lol

[robust pelican]

Yees yess i like this

Honestly as cliche as it is, i always love seeing 'bad guy turned good guy by the sheer power of a loving companionship'

[robust pelican]

You're right i think. Overwatch's themes center around free will and my opinion. So conflict (talon) and peace (companionship) are reoccurring events

[flint thicket]

And I see this happening in one of two ways. One of them is hashimoto holding a public execution against kiriko where they attempt to hang her, but mizuki cuts down the rope to prevent the execution.

[peak escarp]

... a public hanging...

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I could see it being a trope of "the power of connection saves" route

or i could see it as a bittersweet moment of Emre doing a heroic sacrifice to save people which really sticks with Freja.

Freja has Lara Croft vibes, so the heroic sacrifice route for Emre would work pretty well to reinforce motifs seen in other heroes, like Reinhardt's story, etc.

Or, if its some scene where Freja has to put Emre down, i could see Emre giving her his blessing before he turns fully in a tragic dramatic moment.

[flint thicket]

Knowing the hashimoto, they would do this to try and set an example not to defy them.

[peak escarp]

you know this is the future right? not ancient times

[shrewd pivot]

No need to be mean lol.

I think a public hanging is a bit too much tho. Hanzo was almost shot point blank by a gun as execution in front of Hashimoto leaders iirc, so if Kiriko was put to a public execution it would be a similar dirty kind of gang violence

[peak escarp]

when the Hashimoto captured Hanzo, they planned to publicly execute him... by shooting him

[shrewd pivot]

Right

[peak escarp]

if they captured the Yokai, they'd probably get the same

[shrewd pivot]

I agree.

[peak escarp]

come to think of it, I don't think they would do the same thing twice

in that situation, Kiriko saved Hanzo from execution

[shrewd pivot]

Oh for sure, not the same set up. But it would still be a dirty/dishonorable death of gang violence kinda deal, or atleast an attempt to do so lol

I feel like Kiriko’s tp lets her get out of such situations tho, idk how one would... cancel out/stop her from tping away beyond making her unconcious

[peak escarp]

she can, but her friends can't

and I doubt she'd abandon them

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. Tho she seems to be able to tp the child in her cinematic (tps kid to old man after he got shot), she can probably tp... maybe small things with her?

But yeah idk if Kiriko herself could be so easily captured

Also do we know how Kiriko’s grandma died?
I rewatched Kiriko’s cinematic yesterday and I found it kind of notable that the Hashimoto were trying to kidnap the kid with a fox motif, then the old man got shot. Then Kiriko managed to save the old man and when Kiriko asks the kid if's she's okay, the kid says that since Kiriko’s saved him she'll be okay.

It would be really sad if Kiriko’s grandma was killed by the Hashimoto

[peak escarp]

I feel like that would have been mentioned

since her parents are also under threat from the Hashimoto

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah same

[peak escarp]

I think her grandma was just old

[shrewd pivot]

That's my assumption too tbh, but looking at the set up it had me wondering if there was any confirmation for how Kiriko’s grandma died. We know her father was kidnapped by Hashimoto so it had me curious

[peak escarp]

it isn't mentioned anywhere

[shrewd pivot]

Also, rewatching the cinematic had me wondering, now with the context that Kiriko’s dad makes Anima tech, was that cinematic Kiriko revealing to her mom Kiriko used anima tech? It would explain why Kiriko’s mom was saying the kitsune was imaginary and crying "my baby is a hero" etc etc if that was Kiriko revealing to her mom for the first time that Kiriko uses Anima tech.

Idk tho, it always struck me as odd that Kiriko’s mom said the kitsune wasn't real when it's litterally a hologram thingy that can be seen.

[peak escarp]

yeah that is weird

[flint thicket]

And as mentioned, if another tragic event happens to someone close to kiriko and she decides to just start killing hashimoto instead of face kicking out of pure rage, would her mother still consider her a hero or call her a monster?

[peak escarp]

why would Asa think she's a monster?

[flint thicket]

If she started killing hashimoto in cold blood.

[peak escarp]

the Hashimoto are bad people

it wouldn't really be cold blood

the Hashimoto have her father as a prisoner and are forcing Asa to work as an enforcer for them

[shrewd pivot]

Not sure that would ever happen in canon tbh, but yeah Hashimoto are the people that terrorized the area and kidnapped Kiriko’s dad, I think Kiriko’s mom wouldn't fault kiriko if she killed a Hashimoto gang member that attacked.

[peak escarp]

she killed plenty of them in Where Honor Lives

[shrewd pivot]

Oh she straight up killed them? Mbmb my memory fails me 🥀

[peak escarp]

well, it says "fallen Hashimoto" so it's unclear if they're killed or just knocked out

but I doubt either of them would hold back

[shrewd pivot]

Kunai stabs would result in a bleed out death tbf, so it depends how they fell ig and in a life or death situation like Hanzo was in that Kiriko saved Hanzo from, i could see it being lethal yeah

[peak escarp]

they don't tend to dwell on it

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Sombra straight up guns down soldiers in her cinematic, not like on screen deaths haven't happened before

[flint thicket]

Back to mizuki, I feel like once she finds out he is a hashimoto, even if he does defect to yokai, I see her punching him in the face once and holding a kunai near his throat and demand that he gives her an explanation why she should not shove the kunai through his throat. This is a kiriko that got betrayed by someone she trusted and you can tell the emotional pain she ia going through.

[shrewd pivot]

I think it will depend on if she knows that her dad gave Mizuki Anima tech or not

[flint thicket]

Very true. And if she finds out he was forced to be hashimoto.

[viral pilot]

Would she not know immediately from his weapons that they're her father's creation?

[peak escarp]

she would probably recognize his work

Hanzo did, and the Hashimoto goons weren't even using the good weapons

[shrewd pivot]

Kiriko might think Mizuki could have stolen it? or maybe he isn't as obvious with his Anima tech in canon?

But yeah Doctor makes a good point too, Kiriko would have probably recognized her dad's Work.

[viral pilot]

Gotcha

[shrewd pivot]

But yeye if Kiriko KNOWS her dad /willing/ gave Mizuki Anima tech, that would indicate Mizuki has goodness in him to Kiriko.

[viral pilot]

True

Dumb question possibly but her suzu, is that her father's or is that just something she put together?

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think it's been confirmed in explicit canon that Kiriko uses Anima tech but it can be assumed.

In Shinto beliefs, the suzu bells are used for purification iirc. So Kiriko's suzu is probably a play off of that

[viral pilot]

I see

[shrewd pivot]

It's still very bizzarre to me that Brigitte can be a "holy paladin but scifi" without heavenly divine light or calling upon gods/saints or holy water, but Kiriko is essentially a Shinto version of a nun with a gun spraying holy water to purify lmafo.

Atleast Anima tech is varied tho, Hanzo, Genji, and Mizuki weapons are pretty fun

[viral pilot]

Yeah I like how unique Mizuki's weapons are especially

Funniest interaction tho
Hamster: you leave your gun at home?
Hanzo: I WILL NOT BE DISRESPECTED BY VERMIN

[robust pelican]

A shame he doesnt use it for melee

[peak escarp]

fun fact: I use that Hanzo line as my phone notification for reddit messages

[dense garnet]

The hampster will use your chasis as a vacation home

[valid jolt]

Why throwing a hat to someone = heal.
What do I not know from the Japanese culture or lore?

[peak escarp]

it's to give him a unique way of healing

not really based in Japanese myth

[viral pilot]

That's so strange but I like it 😅

[viral pilot]

True, that'd be intense

[wise grotto]

It’s got the same papers kiriko throws

That’s pretty much it

[spare fox]

I wouldn't be surprised if we did see a hero with a weapon that functions similar to Mizuki's hat but does damage at some point in the future

They do like to use mechanics in new and unique ways

[robust swallow]

is there any canon history with ana’s husband? anything about him?

[spare fox]

He is a Canadian civil servant she met, his name is Sam English and he's Pharah's father

[robust swallow]

so sad he doesnt get that much attention,, thanks a lot!

[shrewd pivot]

Do we take the human giggles as canon, chat. At 2:00 and 2:47 she has some Tom and Jerry level human giggles lmao

https://youtu.be/oCjDHa3fptE?si=Hx3jJcJb8-Sg6-0F

[leaden ore]

anyone know where i can find some expansion on sigma's lore?

[frail grove]

This is the dumbest shi ever and so out of character but wouldnt it be funny if weaver

joined deadlock lol

Just coz he got shi in common w Ashe idfk

just funny me thinks

[flint thicket]

Not gonna lie. Asa vs Vendetta would make a great fight

[fleet scaffold]

Asa-sensei, ah yes.

Though isnt she very old by this era?

[flint thicket]

Possibly. But I feel she could put up a fight and maybe use Vendetta's own anger against her.

[fleet scaffold]

No doubt she's got that energy transference technique that all martial artists know. Using one's own strength against them.

Imagine being punched by the force of your own sundering blade strike.

D a m n.

[flint thicket]

I feel this starts after Vendetta tries to finish a severely injured and incapacitated kiriko off.

[fleet scaffold]

Yeah I can see it now.

Vendetta: "I shall swing this Fang, with 100% of my power! This ends now!"
Asa: "You're right. It does." (calm, but locked in)

[flint thicket]

And I think someone will have to save Vendetta from a fatal blow from Asa, like Mauga. This is after she is helpless

[peak escarp]

Asa is probably in her 50s

also this is not the channel for writing fanfiction

why would Mauga want to save Vendetta, he loves bloodshed and violence

[flint thicket]

Yeah. Good point. Someone would have to save vendetta from herself.

[viral pilot]

Who the heck is asa

[peak escarp]

Kiriko's mother and Genji/Hanzo's swordmaster

[viral pilot]

Ohh

Thought y'all were misspelling ash

[rustic merlin]

is there a video where the whole lore is explained in chronilogical order including the recent update w ow 2 lore

[peak escarp]

I haven't seen any with the current lore added

[rustic merlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa9ce-TvBpQ

[timber adder]

did dooomfist die

[peak escarp]

probably not

[timber adder]

lorewarlord doctor six are you lurking in chats

[rustic merlin]

my theory is that he's close to death but moira is prolly gonna experiment or give him enhancements

he's def getting a rework cuz of his lore

[timber adder]

wow ur so smart

[viral pilot]

Omg imagine if Moira experiments on doomfist and he gets a faze ability like she and reaper have

[peak escarp]

I don't think Moira is going to experiment on Doomfist

[gusty cloak]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that sombra left talon? Like I get why widowmaker left, but sombra is the type to stay behind and work as a double agent. She would stay there to gather information and influence the outcome herself.

[gusty cloak]

I think doom will most likely get his fist back either himself or from the help of null sector. I don't see him going to someone like the phreaks for a body mod

[acoustic ice]

how did chernobog gain control of emre

[robust pelican]

Vendetta is a DPS but she's mafia first and foremost, i think that's risky for someone like sombra

[acoustic ice]

vendetta mafia… the sopranos?

[jaunty oar]

maybe she left because trying to complete her goal under vendetta would be harder?

idk

i havent paid too much attention to the lore but sigma seems to be losing his marbles and might be important in vendettas downfall

[jaunty oar]

never gonna happen now cuz isnt ashe working with talon now?

[toxic flax]

we dont know for now according to moira he just showed up like that one day

[jaunty oar]

and talon works with vishkar

also can someone correct me if im wrong and just confusing shit but wasnt emre originally teased as a fire based hero like years ago

[jaunty oar]

like shes acting way too cocky for someone that would just get spaghettified by sigma flicking his boogers in her direction 😭

and how angry he sounds in his elimination voicelines

idk it just seems obvious

but at the same time....

how would doom come back

cuz he 100% isnt dead (not cope from me)

[jaunty oar]

is he just gonna be like a rogue??? another faction idfk???

but those arent really good ideas

we have like 3 other factions that barely have anything

and i dont think he can do his global war thing by himself...

sigma and doom taking down vendetta is also possible but like...making vendetta show up out of nowhere and overthrow doom by herself (even though there was like a bunch of lore dropped about her gathering allies lol) while having doom need sigma to overthrow vendetta would be lame as fuck and make him seem weak

could have been fixed by making her gathering allies actually relevant but whatever lol

almost everyone just followed her anyway the moment she took over

all that shit was useless 😭

[civic lynx]

IMO I think it’ll be a new faction or they’ll give him the most predictable OW redemption arc imaginable

[jaunty oar]

redemption arc would be so fucking lame and just destroy his character 😭

and new faction just seems terrible like

we still have the japanese gangs that blizz has barely expanded on because they need them to be vague so they can drop more kpop demon hunter cosplayers as characters

arent the gwishin still active? whats up with those guys

and the conspiracy?

[civic lynx]

Blizzard said when they added wuyang they want to constantly add new factions and expand OW’s universe, I can see doom adding yet another

[jaunty oar]

chernobog????

[jaunty oar]

fuuuuckkkk

guess we are getting doomfist college

ggs

[civic lynx]

Gwishin is active and Busan was updated last year to say an EMP has been developed to temporarily or hopefully permanently stop its attacks

Imo s4 will probably detonate the EMP for d.mon lore

[jaunty oar]

"hello overwatchers this is jeff aaron kaplan keller welcome to overwatch spotlight today we are reworking doomfist to be a support character
ever since doomfist lost his fist he went to china and founded the doomfist college"

[civic lynx]

The conspiracy/chernobog will be expanded via Emre since he seems to be linked/under the control of them

[jaunty oar]

so gwishins are already gonna stop being a threat

[civic lynx]

The hashimoto gang will be expanded via mizuki’s lore before he defects to the Yokai and OW, S3’s hero is also likely a hashimoto member so they can continue to use the faction after mizuki defects

[jaunty oar]

yeah but my problem is that

it will probably barely be anything

fuuuck

[civic lynx]

I think they’ll get a fair amount just from S3’s hero alone 😭

They seem very interested in actually giving the new heroes extensive lore now

[jaunty oar]

wellll

lets hope its good atleast...

[jaunty oar]

csn i get a tldr on chernobog though because like

last i remember

[civic lynx]

Vendetta will probably fall in February 2027 but the factions she was working with will probably receive more new lore of how they respond to that and what they look like after vendetta is outta there

[jaunty oar]

it was helping humanity before it shut down and it printed instructions?

so wtf is it doing now and how is it active

[civic lynx]

I’m not the most knowledgable on chernobog but it seems to be controlling Emre and is the cause of his evil side

When you respawn as him I think there’s Finnish text that briefly appears on screen that’s from chernobog and the website lore bit that just has random bullshit can be partially deciphered into “WARNING: CHERNOBOG-BYPASS INITIATED, WE ARE WATCHING”

[jaunty oar]

are we even sure if its evil or is it like a dr fate thing where its doing shit for the greater good but the way it does it is pretty fucking evil

i forgot already lmfa

o

[civic lynx]

I’d assume it’s just evil but I’m not entirely sure 😭

[jaunty oar]

i just have my doubts because it seemed like

not evil?????

[civic lynx]

The wiki just says it was responsible for global security during the crisis then was shut down

[jaunty oar]

when it shut down???

[civic lynx]

now it’s back with no context (yet) and controlling Emre

[jaunty oar]

it literally apologized before it shut down too like 😭

it cant be THAT evil...

[civic lynx]

It could be that another faction (new or existing) has managed to hijack chernobog

And they are making it force Emre to do evil things for their own gain

[jaunty oar]

its probably the conspiracy because of sombras voicelines tbh

and the eye symbolism

thing

[civic lynx]

Most likely

[jaunty oar]

how come we dont get shit with venture anyway werent they digging up relics n shit

related to the conspiracy

[civic lynx]

I fear the devs just dgaf about venture

[jaunty oar]

😭

[civic lynx]

Mf’s moved at breakneck speed to start promoting and showering Juno with attention over venture

[jaunty oar]

fuck my chungus life

[jaunty oar]

next up: space college

[civic lynx]

Unless venture’s faction makes a massive discovery with the conspiracy or somehow is dragged into the OW vs Talon war I doubt we’ll really see them much for a while

[jaunty oar]

is junos family dead

i genuinely forgot

or are they just stuck there

[civic lynx]

I think they’re endangered but still alive currently

[jaunty oar]

WHY IS THIS BITCH NOT HURRYING UP THEN

wasnt she sent so they could get help

[civic lynx]

Bc she gotta cosplay as le sserafim members

[civic lynx]

I think so yeah 😭

[jaunty oar]

oh my godd bro she is just sitting on her ass doing NOTHING

just like my juno teammates tbh

[civic lynx]

Her ass is part of ow so she’ll probably be needed for this war 😭🙏🏽

[jaunty oar]

she probably already forgot about mars bruh im cryine

[civic lynx]

They might have her finally get help for her family right before vendetta is taken out of power

[jaunty oar]

man

NGL

kinda hope the "mech" hero shown isnt a fucking meka character

idgaf about them bro

[civic lynx]

It very likely is

[jaunty oar]

and we have a bunch of other big robot guys that were in the cinematic for recall

like why cant we have more ogs bro do we really need another gooner dva clone

sorry

oxymoron

[civic lynx]

They look like pretty much the same thing but the new design isn’t squatting as much

[jaunty oar]

dva clone*

[jaunty oar]

please dont be melee please dont be melee

or if its melee please dont be a rein wannabe

[civic lynx]

Well considering they have a giant sword…

[jaunty oar]

god

[civic lynx]

I feel like they’ll be a hybrid of rein and doom

[jaunty oar]

its either gonna be vendetta or rein isnt it

busted or useless

[civic lynx]

Especially if my theory dps doom is returning to terrorise us when they reveal he’s alive is true

[jaunty oar]

DPS DOOM NVM idgaf anymore i love blizzard

[civic lynx]

D.mon could replace tank doom’s role

[jaunty oar]

long live aaron keller

[civic lynx]

I fear they already showed one of the OG’s but they’re fuckin dead

[jaunty oar]

oh my fucking god when was this

why does blizzard do this to us

[civic lynx]

It’s part of the new map for later this year (s4, 5 or 6)

[jaunty oar]

wow ok so we just get a dead ow og agent

[civic lynx]

Apparently it may have been some sort of maximum security prison

[jaunty oar]

as part of the map

[civic lynx]

But clearly something has escaped

[jaunty oar]

💀

what could have fucking escaped

[civic lynx]

If I had to guess: new talon agent, null sector character (possibly the rumoured one they showed at spotlight for the 10 new heroes thing) or a new villain all together

Could also be vendetta attacked the prison to break someone out in particular or to just set everyone free to cause more problems for OW as a last resort

[jaunty oar]

would be cool to see some new fucked up flesh creature or something....

closest thing we have is like

reaper

and moira

[jaunty oar]

yeah but likee

[civic lynx]

That would be cool but idk if it fits what ow is today

[jaunty oar]

theres a giant hole that

TO ME

[civic lynx]

Could’ve been done by any sort of laser or rail gun tbh

[jaunty oar]

seems like something punched that things head off

through the wall

[jaunty oar]

true true

[civic lynx]

The head is still attached

It was shot through the chest

[jaunty oar]

oh right

FUCK

that image is low quality my bad bro

[civic lynx]

If it’s a maximum security prison they probably had mounted rail guns or high powered explosive weapons on site

Vendetta could’ve had talon agents take some of them and shoot that thing down so they can escape if she did it

It also seems to be missing an arm?

[mellow zephyr]

overwatch classic is gone, so what is the way to play it now until come backs? I really miss Mei freeze and hanzo scatter arrow

[robust pelican]

They should make that part of their mid game upgr- CAYDE???

[brittle sky]

they both do, kinda, don't they?

[robust pelican]

I havent played hanzo and mei since like

Before ramattra

[civic lynx]

Yeah Mei freeze is a major perk

Idk about scatter arrow since I refuse to play hanzo

[brittle sky]

Reaper's whole deal was offing og ow agents, and the first old og affiliate that seems confirmed dead seems really unlikely to be his doing.

looks like

[civic lynx]

Yeah this thing (if it is an ow agent or ex agent) looks like it was killed by some sort of laser or rail gun not reaper’s usual style

[brittle sky]

okay but reaper going on the run and going 'well I can't not do my whole thing' and then finally succeeding at getting a presumably named ow affiliate by rail gunning a giant prison guard would be hilariously funny.

[civic lynx]

It would be 😭

If he had an actual fight with it before finding the weapon he deals the final blow with it could be a cool cinematic

[brittle sky]

like man's track record has been so bad the most common conspiracy for him for a bit was that he's faking his whole heel turn.

[spare fox]

where are these images of the damaged red fortress coming from? I missed that

[spare fox]

spitballing-theory here: that kinda sorta looks like one of the OG hero concepts right?
What IF that robot-android-possible omnic is one of Dr. Liao's other 2 unnamed creations?

[edgy meadow]

if its an AI research subject that leaves a lot of questions in the air

namely, why is it huge

[spare fox]

research subject?

[edgy meadow]

like aurora and echo were

maybe research subject is slightly confusing as the term but

liao never really designed weapons

not to our knowledge i believe

so it wouldnt make sense for her to just design a huge ass mecha

[spare fox]

but couldn't it be a guard or security bot? similar to the OR-15s?

idk, just trying to develop some theories

it does have the "Dr. Liao look" to it

[edgy meadow]

its not impossible, but there would need to be a lot to fill for that to make sense

[spare fox]

I keep forgetting, is this the Iceland "international prison" map or the Finland map?

[brittle sky]

iceland, which people are hypothesizing is a watchpoint related to interning dangerous individuals

[grave saddle]

Could the prison be where sigma is held and the map is after breaking him out?

[brittle sky]

finland has no indication of being a map, just has ties to chernobog

[digital linden]

i doubt it. pretty sure he’s a confined weapon / prisoner within talon’s headquarters or some other secured location

[brittle sky]

would require talon to secretly have taken over a former watchpoint

[grave saddle]

Does it get more secure than a maximum security talon prison? A whole prison could maybe be the sorta thing vendetta does

[grave saddle]

Yeah if it defo is a former watch point then maybeee not. But also potentially the infrastructure was there

[brittle sky]

Watchpoint: Grímsvötn (Iceland) Select offender prison and weaponry confinement - would be wild if the tiny little island gets like 100 museums and 2 seperate supermax sci fi prisons.

[edgy meadow]

when did we first hear about this watchpoint again

[brittle sky]

I think declassified. Doc can come correct me.

[peak escarp]

correct

also, Juno isn't doing nothing for her family - she went to Lucheng to plead for them but Dr. Chao lied and said they were already dead

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/signs-of-life/

[brittle sky]

(ends with juno getting a transmission that confirms that her family is not dead, or at least very recently were not so, i believe)

[peak escarp]

correct

it's a really nice story, I wish they had done an audio version

heh, someone recreated Ana's photo with all the heroes, now that they're finally all in the game

https://x.com/tgmk831046/status/2025967552338526322?s=20

tgmk (@tgmk831046)

X · Feb 23, 2026, 4:14 PM

[dense garnet]

That person was Sojourn!?

[wise grotto]

Yes definitely

Incredibly young soj before a decent amount of modifications but it’s Soj

[bold fern]

@wise grotto https://youtube.com/shorts/_67WpMYCncQ?si=s_mlshEcOxetRcNd

deadass thought she was efi

[dense garnet]

Efi is impossible unfortunately

She's too young and would raise the esrb to mature (despite us being able to shoot a cat to death anyway)

[peak escarp]

the silhouette doesn't match the description of Frankie, who has short curly hair

I can finally make an updated version with all their ages

[dense garnet]

Could be a Helix hero, but idrc about Helix as a group lmao

[bold fern]

i mean hair can grow

haha

[peak escarp]

I still think she will be a Helix captain

[dense garnet]

Helix feels like such a nothing of an org aside from them defending Anubis in case she gets woken up somehow

[bold fern]

its not impossible they wanna use their older sources, look at jetpack cat

[peak escarp]

the base that Vendetta is attacking, that she needs the Deadlock gang to help with, is controlled by Helix

[bold fern]

peta prob spamming emails

[peak escarp]

and since Pharah left Helix to join Overwatch, they don't have any Helix rep in the game right now

[dense garnet]

We WILL get a peta tweet about jpc someday. They always like to rub their noses in these things

[nocturne rivet]

peta complained about winston n hammond?

I don't think they have a valid reason to do anything

[bold fern]

they will just complain 24/7

wont hurt

[dense garnet]

They complained about Umamusume

They are absolutely not gonna give a shit

It's just a publicity act

[wise grotto]

PETA kill more animals then a year of jpc being in game coukd csuse

Plus hammond and Winston are here they already hate ow

[peak escarp]

peta is a joke

[wise grotto]

PETA accused furries of using real fur for fur suits we can’t be taking them serious

[dense garnet]

I think it's funny that if JPC was real, they'd be allowed in the military

It reminds me of this bear that the Polish army adopted and trained to bring resources like ammo to soldiers during battle. They even uncovered a German spy who was spooked by the bear's presence, which promoted the bear to general

[spare fox]

I also agree that it's probably not Frankie. Although hair can grow and she could have extensions, just the pose and what we can see of the outfit seems more uniform-esque
Frankie is definitely more punk

[bold fern]

animals were used in ww2

def possibl

lol

[spare fox]

I think next season's hero is the character whose name was redacted from the Helix security communication on the Deadlock Gang's tablet

[bold fern]

we shall see

hyped

drone hero

[spare fox]

idk I can totally see it now: people whining "WE WERE PROMISED FRANKIIIIIEEE"

like shut up

[dense garnet]

Yeah the bear I mentioned was during ww2 iirc

[bold fern]

iwl

i saw anran coming

but

they said jetpack cat was scrapped

and this bugger appears

😭

[peak escarp]

they told us Anran was coming

she got an Overwatch token in Wuyang's short

[bold fern]

yeah but i thought she would be released wayy later

[peak escarp]

and Emre has been wanted ever since his first mention in 2018

[bold fern]

i forgot emre

😭

both theses heroes were expected

[peak escarp]

he was first mentioned in a teaser for Brigitte

[bold fern]

the cat was just not

considering they scrapped it

[peak escarp]

yeah

[bold fern]

will we get more domina and mizuki lore

[peak escarp]

yes

[bold fern]

curious

[spare fox]

Domina tomorrow

Mizuki the week after, iirc

[bold fern]

will we see chinchilla coat

👀

[spare fox]

doubtful

[bold fern]

even if it isnt frankie they will be addeded eventually iwl

but im curious about the omjic

omnic

in the coat

[spare fox]

yeah they seem to be getting everyone's eye

[bold fern]

just being nonchalant smh

[dense garnet]

This week was an OW sweep just because it was JPC

Do you think the two future Echo skins will be indicative to the lore?

[spare fox]

I predict that that omnic is either related to the battle of the bridges story we just saw an update on Midtown OR the omnic is a monitor from the IJC to regulate and detail on Overwatch's activities

and report back to IJC his findings

[bold fern]

they will size down the meka right

haha

[civic lynx]

I think so

[spare fox]

probably... iirc the Beast meka that appears in game is way too large - it just wouldn't fit into some doorways

[dense garnet]

What if Talon captured Echo in the Gib raid

[spare fox]

which idk MIGHT be part of its thing but idk

I doubt it... but I also doubted we'd get JPC and here we are...

[bold fern]

sorry if blurry but who do yall think the one next to anran is

[dense garnet]

Tbf Dva's mech is very big and wouldn't fit through doorways either

[edgy meadow]

hard to say, currently speculated to be an omnic related to null sector

but theres no evidence to support it besides 'vibes'

[civic lynx]

I think that’s what will happen if talon win the final conquest week

If ow win then echo stays with them

[bold fern]

ok clearer ond

another sniper

hahaha

[dense garnet]

What if Omnic Noir is a newscaster that was reporting the null sector invasion

[bold fern]

lowk i want an omnic that wants to be human

like how winston tries to be human

[dense garnet]

So every omnic

[bold fern]

hard to say

do omnics rlly want to be like humans

or just live along

[civic lynx]

Imo this character looks like they might be some sort of redesign or character inspired by the stalker enemy from PvE

[dense garnet]

I want a human that got their consciousness transferred in an Omnic body, like Nick Valentine

I also just want another Phreak

[bold fern]

was gonna mention revenent from apex

hahahahahaha

https://tenor.com/view/apex-legends-revenant-gif-18333537

[dense garnet]

I only know him from that one dog gif

[bold fern]

im still sad we dont got the 2 dooms ski

skin

first one isnt confirmed dead

so like

[peak escarp]

they don't give skins that turn heroes into a different character

[peak escarp]

he was killed in the last few days of the crisis

[bold fern]

awh

[peak escarp]

he was invited to be a founding member of Overwatch, but declined

[bold fern]

3 doomfists and only 1 was a hero

what a shame

[dense garnet]

Why did he name himself Doomfist despite being more heroic

[viral pilot]

Omg I love Nick Valentine

[brittle sky]

I mean, it's kinda actually pretty key given it's the successor to all of overwatch's old jobs, and will almost definitely have friction points with neo ow (most likely org the un sics on them, tension over who gets their old tech and stuff, ne ow possibly disapproving of helix's more dystopian contracts)

[brittle sky]

Not gonna lie, and arbiter/observer would be a very cool thing and would go a long way to make neo-ow not being immediately swatted feel a lot better. I could also see an omnic that is investigating where ram got to (given he ran off with the minds of a significant portion of the omnic population, something remaining omnics would really care about, most likely. It'd be like population level kidnapping)

[spare fox]

Something about omnic noir's silhouette seems villainous to me, though

Hmm

idk, he just comes off as a villain or antagonist

[dawn topaz]

Does Reaper use real bullets

[brittle sky]

why wouldn't he

[dawn topaz]

I ask because the panel of him shooting Jack point blank into the spine from the comics is going around

And Soldier 67 just...walks it off

[brittle sky]

sep program does make it seem like he has extra durability and healing (not like wolverine levels, but shaking off stuff) , and his jacket likely has some armoring.

[peak escarp]

well he is a supersoldier

[spare fox]

I'd think one of the first things they do when developing a "super soldier" is to make them less susceptible to bullets

[brittle sky]

maybe. Certainly the cane gives him an air where he could be a kingpin, and noir in general is a pretty morally murky aesthetic, so maybe.
We got what, 2 definite heroes, 1 definite villain, 1 tragic antivillain/reluctant villain, and 1 barely a villain about to swap to the heros, followed by 1 semi-villainous antagonist (whether s2 is frankie or a helix hero that's a fairly antagonistic affiliation), 1 likely villain (hashimoto s3 hero), 1 likely hero (d.mon), and the other silhouette is vaguely villainous (not friend shaped, at least)

[crisp canyon]

Looking back this is a strange teaser for doomfist

[spare fox]

Vendetta's was VERY similar

which is interesting

[river sparrow]

I have a question, who is the strongest character canonically?

[brittle sky]

in terms of what, physical strength? some kind of power scaling?

[spare fox]

!!lorestrongest

[minor sapphire]

The strongest heroes in the lore are Winston, Orisa, Doomfist and Mauga. Sigma, Symmetra and Lifeweaver are potentially stronger but their power is speculative.

[peak escarp]

that command needs updating

[spare fox]

it's all subjective anyway

[peak escarp]

yeah

[brittle sky]

sure

[crisp canyon]

Vendetta tbh going off the lore rn

[river sparrow]

Just like who would beat everyone in a 1v1 type in you opinion

[spare fox]

they're never going to be vs in a vacuum

[brittle sky]

right, and like, this isn't a strictly simulated morally neutral world. It's a story. By nature the stronger side will likely lose because it's more narrativley interesting and we like it when an underdog hero overcomes the odds.

[crisp canyon]

Sombra, sigma, vendetta are strongest contenders for the title I think, Sombra can register almost every useless, sigma we don’t know the full extent of his power and vendetta kills mechs for fun and defeated doomfist

[brittle sky]

I think 'can defeat' logic is pretty flawed, as like victories are by nature circumstantial. Are we gonna say d.va is super powerful because she's beaten the gwishin titan?

[crisp canyon]

I mean yes because that’s a feat

But dva isn’t powerful without toki

So it puts her lower than others

[peak escarp]

most heroes are weaker if you take away their weapons

I think Winston is the only hero I can think of who is stronger without his weapon

[brittle sky]

yeah like, are we stripping all characters of cybernetics before this fight?

[crisp canyon]

No

[brittle sky]

but those are weapons. Doomfist has a gun in his knuckles

[crisp canyon]

Yeah and

[dense garnet]

I would just say making every character fight unarmed

[brittle sky]

but you're saying we should downgrade dva minus her weapon.

[dense garnet]

Who would be the best at hand to hand combat

[peak escarp]

everyone thinks Sigma is strongest, but we don't know what he can even do, besides levitate small objects

[peak escarp]

Doomfist - he's a (retired) professional martial artis

[brittle sky]

I mean, it would certainly disappoint if that's all he can do, given how his origin story is likely the most beloved.

[dense garnet]

Winston and cybernetics users like Sojourn and Doomfist are at the top of the hand to hand tier list, and then other martial artists like Anran after them

[crisp canyon]

I said she’s weaker than others because she’s reliant on her mech, this is just basic logic dva herself doesn’t have powers, or tech to assist her outside of toki she isn’t as strong as others that’s just fact

[brittle sky]

retired because his cybernetics made him too good at it.

[dense garnet]

Genji might be better than Akande at strictly hand to hand tbh but yeah

[brittle sky]

are we saying venny is weaker because she's reliant on her sword?

[crisp canyon]

No because that’s entirely different

[brittle sky]

I mean.... genji fought doomfist with a sword 2 other guys and he just had a gauntlet and akande didn't even use the fist that much.

[peak escarp]

D.Va might be an ordinary woman without her mech, but I assume MEKA squad was still given basic military training in firearms and h2h combat

[brittle sky]

seems an arbitrary line. Both are weapons.

real question: who is most powerful playing super smash bros: melee, final destination no items.

[dense garnet]

A lot of Dva's "training" came from her background in esports iirc

[peak escarp]

obviously D.Va the pro gamer, although she'd probably get fined for toxicity

[dense garnet]

Dva still had to learn to use a meka but things like reaction time and teamwork she most likely already had

[crisp canyon]

Vendetta beat doomfist in a fight, dva herself has no feat without toki

[peak escarp]

using her sword

[edgy meadow]

evidently the strongest character in lore is jetpack cat bc she can lift everyone without even a smidge of effort

[dense garnet]

Dva does have decent durability feats with surviving her own meka exploding on top of her, which sent her flying down into the ocean. At a height and velocity like that, it would have killed any normal human

Hitting the water at that speed is like slamming into concrete

[peak escarp]

it nearly did kill her - she had to be resuscitated

[crisp canyon]

That’s apply real world logic, it’s like saying junkrat is on the same level

[dense garnet]

Real world logic is what is used to powerscale yes

[crisp canyon]

No? it’s what happens in that world

[dense garnet]

Yeah but a lot of math and calculations we use to determine feats use actual math equations

[crisp canyon]

Sword didn’t throw him out a window

[dense garnet]

I've been in the powerscaling community for over a decade atp so I'm just used to it

[crisp canyon]

Nobody is using math here

[peak escarp]

a throw like that isn't hard, she just used his own momentum against him

[dense garnet]

I think someone could easily use a math equation to figure out how hard Dva hit the water

[crisp canyon]

It wouldn’t even matter

[dense garnet]

Not that it matters anyways, it's just fiction but yeah

It's fun

That's why people do it

Anyways yeah Dva's physically the weakest hero

[peak escarp]

I don't find powerscaling fun, I find it tedious and repetitive

[crisp canyon]

First it was she’s nothing without the sword now it’s not even hard to throw the martial artist out a window

[peak escarp]

and it's all anyone wants to talk about

[dense garnet]

Because it's fun for them

I mean powerscaling is basically like 80% of my hobbies atp

[peak escarp]

the martial artist who was recklessly charging at her, unbalanced and with one arm

[crisp canyon]

Sounds like she’s a better fighter then

[peak escarp]

sounds like she took advantage of his mistakes

[dense garnet]

Doomfist imo just wasn't warmed up

[crisp canyon]

What does that change ab what I said

[peak escarp]

it doesn't

[dense garnet]

Besides fighting Orisa, what has Doomfist done since he escaped prison

[peak escarp]

im just recontextualizing it

[crisp canyon]

Nothing lmao

[dense garnet]

Exactly

He fought Orisa, lost, then sat on his ass

He's kinda a bum

[crisp canyon]

I wouldn’t be suprised if there was lore revelation or something that doomfist doesn’t act have the full power of gauntlet unlocked and has only been posing like he does

We know kinda little about it

[dense garnet]

Nah, he just wasn't at peak strength tbh. He used to be in the front lines when Overwatch was active. Now he's just been commanding others to do his work for him

He could've been part of the Null Sector ship infiltration instead of Mauga

But he won't because he's "the leader"

[crisp canyon]

This kinda just makes me think what I said is more likely there’s no reason he isn’t in the frontlines

[brittle sky]

bum successfully financed and profitted from the exact sort of pseudo-crisis event he said he wanted to use to test humanity.

[dense garnet]

Doesn't make him not a bum

Max is the same

He didn't even start the Null Sector invasion or help it till like far after it started. He's like a scavenger

[viral pilot]

I don't think she was mentioned yet but isn't illari a walking sun bomb?

[crisp canyon]

Vendetta took power and had all of Italy turnover in a day and destroyed Gibraltar

[dense garnet]

Theoretically. It's theorized that she didn't actually cause the explosion

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[peak escarp]

we don't know how or why her accident happened, or if it can happen again

[viral pilot]

Gotcha

[peak escarp]

it's implied that there was some sabotage involved

[viral pilot]

Ohh

[peak escarp]

or at least Illari thinks there was

[crisp canyon]

Moira and Oasis are tied to it

[viral pilot]

Of course Moira is lol

[dense garnet]

Moira wants to make more Inti Warriors, if her voice lines towards Illari are anything

[brittle sky]

I mean, seems like he was the direct reason ram went from being able to hold a hostage a single neighborhood in london to attacking all nations at once. like, storm rising meeting was well before the full invasion.

[crisp canyon]

Speaking of archives did anyone see Aaron is interested in bringing it back to help flesh out lore

[swift oak]

Why isn’t overwatch lead by Winston ?

[crisp canyon]

Exp

[brittle sky]

Idk, I think buying into the inaction line is to assume that the portrayed narrative covered the extent of his actions, when in reality it kinda just seems like projecting the inaction of the story onto him.

[swift oak]

Thanks

[peak escarp]

Winston doesn't have leadership experience, Sojourn does

[swift oak]

Hey i remember you, you became a mod here? Wow congratulations

[crisp canyon]

The real problem is Jeff Kaplan didn’t know what to do with him either, so he ended up just being a bum in lore

[peak escarp]

technically I'm a reddit mod who got special permissions here

[errant cliff]

why are sombra and doomfist villains, I don't remember their tragic backstories

[dense garnet]

Can you give me the regular role hmm

[peak escarp]

you have to earn it

[dense garnet]

Did I not

[peak escarp]

idk, I don't know what the requirements for Regular are

you'd have to ask a real mod

[crisp canyon]

Sombra is using talon or was to her benefit to find the root of something she uncovered with the omnic crisis and everything else going on that connects to vishkar and volskaya and more, it’s a symbiotic relationship. doomfist idr his his lore on it tbh

[wise grotto]

You have to talk quite a lot before you get it and then keep consistent to some degree

[dense garnet]

Sombra isn't really a villain kinda. If you consider her a villain, Soldier 76 would be in the same boat

[brittle sky]

I mean they're villains more because the are willing to hurt people to get what they want, broadly.
But sombra was a precocious child hacker who encountered signs of some kind of conspiracy that she became obsessed with unraveling and seizing control of
and Doom was a wealthy heir and martial artist who lost limbs in the omnic crisis and that led him down a path of investing in conflict as a crucible for strengthening people, leading to his apprenticeship to the 2nd doomfist within talon, and eventually coming to power in talon after deposing the last doomfist.

[errant cliff]

didn't Reyes kill civillians out of impatience which led to emre leaving overwatch, and the others including 76 viewed it as collateral?

[viral pilot]

Semi unrelated but I'd like to see Sombra reworked as a support

[wise grotto]

Mizuki

[crisp canyon]

I think Sombra should stay in dmg but hack should only apply to objects like health packs, shields and turrets

[viral pilot]

I guess they'd be too similar

[brittle sky]

that's almost certainly an exagerration. Blackwatch played fast and loose with international law and did carry out some pretty rough assassinations, but reyes didn't just kill civies because he got bored.

[peak escarp]

phrasing is important here - Reyes didn't kill them, he got them killed

[errant cliff]

isn't that the same thing if his impatience led to their deaths? He might aswell have killed them

[peak escarp]

I think the distinction is important

[errant cliff]

true

[peak escarp]

his actions led to their deaths, but he didn't pull the trigger himself

[dense garnet]

And virus should just hack enemies

[errant cliff]

it's not like he actively wanted to kill civillains, he just didn't actively value their lives

[errant cliff]

yeah like Doctor said, not directly

[crisp canyon]

I think virus should honestly just replace her ult and be like an aoe damage field to deny area imo, and virus can be a small emp she can throw out that disables abilities

, and ivis can go back to being toggled on or off with 15 sec cooldown and translocator having to land to escape

[viral pilot]

At King's Row, Emre says something like, "Overwatch went too far here," like this is where he lost faith in Overwatch.
Whereas Soldier 76 at King's Row says, "I don't regret a single thing we did here."

What are they referring to?

[dense garnet]

The Null Sector attack in Archives I think

[peak escarp]

the King's Row Uprising - Null Sector held hostages and the UK government forbade Overwatch from helping... so they did anyway

[viral pilot]

Ah okay. Multiple things happened there like Mondatta assassination so it's hard to keep it straight

[crisp canyon]

Torbjorns device taking 15 min to start

[viral pilot]

😅

[brittle sky]

Presumably S:76 saw it as a necessary overstep to save the say, and Emre saw it as an excessive crackdown (whether because the counter attack was too destructive, or it hardened Null Sector into a more radical organization - something we know happened in Ramattra's story, or because it set a tone for later tensions in omnic v. government standoffs)

[viral pilot]

Thanks for the specifics. I knew most of that but i think what had me confused was that a lot of these characters weren't playable during that mission so I didn't connect some of the dots

Also been awhile since I played it

[peak escarp]

Mondatta was one of the hostages

[crisp canyon]

We still don’t have. Mondatta skin for zen

Or a horse skin for Orisa

[viral pilot]

They probably don't wanna do skins of a different character

[peak escarp]

I don't think they'd give Zen a skin like that

seems disrespectful

[viral pilot]

I guess they did give rein skins of his fallen mentor

Still some of the best skins to this day

[dense garnet]

I've heard enough. Gerald skin for Widow

[viral pilot]

I don't like what you made me picture in my head

Respectfully

[dense garnet]

They should give Orisa a perk similar to Lifeine where she can allow teammates to ride her into battle. Like Hanzo always wanted

[viral pilot]

I don't need anymore reasons to dislike Orisa

No disrespect to the Orisa mains

All three of you

I jest

[brittle sky]

give sombra lanet skin.

[brittle sky]

wasn't that an april fools mode thing already? or the mask team up thing?

[civic lynx]

I think it’s been in April fools multiple times

[viral pilot]

That'd be cool tho

[cunning copper]

is ramattra stronger than Reinhardt

[digital pulsar]

I like to think he is but probably not

[cunning copper]

well at least i diff Reinhardts

[dense garnet]

Hard to say, but Ram is definitely more intelligent

Ram would win in a 1v1 imo

[cunning copper]

ram is tuffer and in my heart that wins him the 1v1 although i don't have a full of understanding of how strong these characters are, i analyze their kits and voicelines (along with backgrounds) to try and get an idea

and by kits I don't mean how op they are

God no

abilities and such, to get a feel of their character as a whole and how their power scaling falls into place

so I'm just gonna go with the narrative that ram high diffs rein nemesis form wise lol

[peak escarp]

Ramattra is an omnic, so yes

[cunning copper]

how strong are omnics really

also what happened with the omnic crisis

I forgot to ask that

did it...achieve it's goals

[peak escarp]

omnics are robots - they don't feel fatigue, they can lift thousands of pounds, and they can learn anything just by connecting to a database

Anubis's goal with the omnic crisis was to wipe out humanity, so thankfully it did not achieve its goals

the crisis was stopped by giving all omnics Sentience - basically, free will

some chose to keep fighting, but most surrendered or even joined human forces to fight back against Anubis

[viral pilot]

Are you saying that some still sided with Anubis even after gaining sentience?

[fathom grove]

Yeah we know that for a fact from Genesis

Genesis is so underrated more people gotta know that exists

[viral pilot]

That a comic?

[cunning copper]

uhh

lore gap

okay so

ramattra thing was before the sentience thing i suppose

[peak escarp]

Ramattra came after

long after

[viral pilot]

Oh wow they should really advertise all of this in game

[cunning copper]

ramattra came after omnics were given free will?

[peak escarp]

Ramattra was made by Anubis, and also received the Awakening

I thought you meant Ramattra's war

[cunning copper]

isn't ramattras whole deal as a revolutionary the freedom of his people

[peak escarp]

that's what he says he wants

[cunning copper]

that's what I'm asking

[peak escarp]

but what he actually did was to upload most omnics' conscousness into the cloud to wait out humanity destroying itself

rather than try to make the world a safer place for omnics

[brittle sky]

I mean a key component of his beliefs is he doesn't believe humans are interested in getting any less destructive, certainly not to omnics, and while any incremental changes occur more omnics die irreplaceably. You can read it as a pessimistic take and it is, but skepticism and rejection of well meaning incrementalism is like, literally borrowed from the letters of mlk as its inspiration.

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra's goal is to secure a future free from oppression for his people.

It's also a good point that, prior to Ramattra preserving omnic minds:

Even if there was human omnic unity, that means awakened omnics would have to reteach each new generation of humanity for the foreseeable future.
Ramattra is pessimistic but it's reasonable pessimism imo
a future of his people having to politely ask humanity's generations to not kill awakened omnics, wasn't much of a secure future for his people.

Ramattra seemingly did at least prevent awakened omnic extinction, which was his goal.

[stark folio]

Hey lore chat

[stark folio]

Rammatra might be valid as emre confirms the god AI are still alive

And working

[shrewd pivot]

all of them? I don't recall a line that confirms god ais are back online
It seems like chernobog god ai was restarted and is connected to the eye conspiracy, which is controlling Emre

[stark folio]

Chernobog wasn't exactly evil

[shrewd pivot]

it's very possible that a group (eye conspiracy) is using chernobog god ai

[stark folio]

They were one of the nicer AI

But anubis has been known to rewrite AI code

[shrewd pivot]

my guess is that some kind of "illuminati" trope group will be in charge of the eye conspiracy, and is using chernobog

Anubis is currently contained atm, but ig that is possible a sliver of anubis coding got to chernobog ai somehow

[stark folio]

But wasn't chernobog shutdown out of fear of anubis taking over?

[shrewd pivot]

yeah the god ais where shut down during the 1st omnic crisis

so it's a big mystery why chernobog is seemingly restarted again

[stark folio]

Maybe Chernobog isn't evil

But instead of being forced into the head of emre for some reason

Maybe the shadow government controlling the world that scared sombra

The Eye conspiracy that scared even sombra

[shrewd pivot]

i don't think it is at all, it's an ai. Idk if chernobog ai has sapience but i see it like a machine doing calculations. If a person feeds chernobog faulty data, then that could make chernobog act "evily" or something. maybe the evil group is using chernobog to achieve a certain global outcome.

Yeah i could def see a secret group (eye conspiracy) using chernobog somehow, if the eye conspiracy isn't actually chernobog itself

[stark folio]

Sombra does say something about a secret group controlling the world and probably responsible for anubis

[shrewd pivot]

it's technically unknown how Anubis went rogue, but it could have been sabotage

[stark folio]

And the first omnic crisis

Anubis probably didn't do it alone

A shadow government with a agenda does make sense

[shrewd pivot]

that's the vibes i got from the tropes, but it's all speculation really atm

for all we know chernobog is the eye conspiracy, somehow. we will have to wait and see

[stark folio]

Or involved with it

[shrewd pivot]

yeah with Emre chernobog is def involved with the eye conspiracy somehow

[stark folio]

Because why would the eye scare sombra so much?

[peak escarp]

what do you mean by "awakened omnics have to reteach every generation of humanity to accept them"

[stark folio]

Like do we know or are they finally covering the theory with emre

[peak escarp]

once humanity accepts omnics, they will teach their own to accept omnics going forward

[stark folio]

Then they never had sentience to begin with

[peak escarp]

the burden isn't on the omnics

[stark folio]

If that is the case

Mondatta was correct then

[peak escarp]

it's not like every generation has had to re-learn how to accept mixed marriage - once it's accepted, it stays accepted

[stark folio]

Rammatra is a little naive

I get he is angry about mondatta but like come on

[shrewd pivot]

omnics are a finite generation. Humanity is generations. in history, no country lasts forever. Even Numbani may fall one day. the concept is that just because one generation is taught peace, that doesn't mean it will last for every generation afterwards.
Look at history to see how certain civil rights have flip flopped over the ages, I don't think Ramattra trusts humanity, who globally was/is actively killing off omnics, could ever properly be trusted to never kill again. It would be asking politely "please dont kill us" to an oppressor for the foreseeable future, because once an awakened omnic is dead, that's one less awakened omnic forever.

[stark folio]

Why is Rammatra working with Talon when they shot Mondatta?

Does he know

[shrewd pivot]

that's not how history works unfortunately. general improvements certainly are here compared to past thousands of years don't get me wrong, but it's not something that is set in stone globally forever. there's not even global womens rights to this day, it's a constant struggle to maintain civil rights.

[edgy meadow]

he does, he just saw talon as a means to his end

[opaque tundra]

He knows Talon killed him but it’s still ambiguous whether he ordered the hit or not

[edgy meadow]

why would he?

mondatta dying is what broke him

[peak escarp]

what

[opaque tundra]

No?

[peak escarp]

no

[edgy meadow]

am i confusing

[stark folio]

Widow shot mondatta yes

[edgy meadow]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HBp70kgXIAA37o3.gif

yes

thats not what i meant

[peak escarp]

Ramattra saw Mondatta's death as the inevitable result of his naive belief that omnics could coexist with humans

[shrewd pivot]

mondatta's death did not break ramattra imo

[stark folio]

To be fair rammatra was hated because of the model he was

It only proved Rammatra right in his beliefs

Rammatra broke from the constant abuse of his kind

Mondatta just confirmed the cruelty of humans even more

But rammatra has always never been able to escape his past as zenyatta wasn't a soldier

[shrewd pivot]

yeah it's very notable that both Zenyatta and Ramattra disagree with Mondatta's dogmatic pascifist approaches. Both Ramattra and Zenyatta are not pacifists.

[stark folio]

Zenyatta couldn't understand the issues rammatra has being a war criminal

Yeah zenyatta wasn't a pacifist but he isn't a soldier like rammatra was

[shrewd pivot]

we don't know exactly what zenyatta did prior, but he certainly was not a R-7000 "ravager" unit like Ramattra

[peak escarp]

he wasn't designed to be a soldier like Ramattra was

Zenyatta seems to be the standard all-purpose omnic model

[shrewd pivot]

Zenyatta seems to be a civilian unit of some kind, yeah

[peak escarp]

the R-7000s were specifically made by Anubis to command his armies

[shrewd pivot]

yeah Ramattra's survivors guilt over that adds a lot to his story imo

[peak escarp]

he should try harder to fight his designated purpose

[shrewd pivot]

that was something early theories had, wondering if Ramattra was facing the same issue Bastion was with anubis coding.

I wonder if awakened omnics got the anubis coding removed like Bastion did, or if it was just Torbjorn's kindness for one omnic

[stark folio]

This coding effected even echo

[peak escarp]

why would it affect Echo

she was built after Anubis was shut down

[stark folio]

Emre apparently recently with his AI

Unless that code isn't anubis

[peak escarp]

it's not Anubis and it's not canon

it's just gameplay

[stark folio]

Even if it was canon I doubt it has enough reach to take over echo

[peak escarp]

Echo copies the voice lines of other heroes when she copies them

Emre says "Emre, I am Emre", so Echo says "Echo, I am Echo"

[shrewd pivot]

yeah the voice lines where updated, Echo is just immitating Emre's lines

[stark folio]

If it took over bastion then yeah

It would be canon

[peak escarp]

the orders Bastion was following were leftovers from the Crisis

[stark folio]

Echo just copies the ultimate

But didn't torbjorn rewrite him?

[shrewd pivot]

what would be canon? sorry no hate intended, i just wish to understand

[stark folio]

The code thing

That emre has apparently has a virus

The AI

[shrewd pivot]

oh it's completely canon that Emre is being controlled

the thing controlling Emre is connected to Chernobog god ai and the eye conspiracy

[brittle sky]

I mean, you'd hope that. But....

[shrewd pivot]

yeah... : (

[peak escarp]

I couldn't think of anything else

I also forgot that people are idiots and sometimes go backwards

[brittle sky]

nah all good. And yes, norms have inertia of a sort - generations try to pass on their values, and a value instilled is easier to maintain across generations than one from scratch. Was just side eying the hilariously regressive surge among certain real life quarters.

[peak escarp]

yeahhhhhh

[stark folio]

But the iris still exists so why would they have to relearn?

[peak escarp]

but you get what I mean - even if a country falls apart, their culture and beliefs will get passed on

[stark folio]

Explain

[peak escarp]

history will still be there to look back on and learn from

-# or not learn from

[stark folio]

Even Pompeii still has remnants

[shrewd pivot]

yeah. so that history shows humans can change values,
combined with the fact awakened omnics are finite and cannot reproduce (every killed awakened is one less awakened omnic forever--assuming there's no recreated awakening anytime soon)
it would be a bit bleak to have to constantly beg for the right to live from humanity, especially since the current global humanity in overwatch was already actively having awakened omnics killed off around the globe

[peak escarp]

not everywhere

some countries/cultures accept omnics

[shrewd pivot]

yeah Numbani seems safer, but even then it's not really free from human oppression since Efi's novel shows that anti-omnic sentiment still exists in Numbani in some places

[peak escarp]

Japan and Canada seem to be pretty accepting of omnics

from what we've seen

[stark folio]

You cannot blame Korea for hating omnics

[brittle sky]

I mean their classic example of stochastic murders of omnics seems to be japan going back to the recall video, and the only ones we have seen have been goons for organized crime. That doesn't speak to crazy good acceptance.

[shrewd pivot]

and there's still anti-omnic places where omnics were being killed/attacked, one awakened omnic killed is extremely dire for a finite generation

[stark folio]

They don't talk about it because gangs control tokyo and use omnics

Let's be honest

[peak escarp]

locals shunned Zarya when she was rude to an omnic cook in Japan

[stark folio]

Oh

[stark folio]

Then again you can't blame zarya

Considering what omnics did to her

[peak escarp]

it gives the impression that they value that omnic more than they value her

[shrewd pivot]

Zarya's arc was rushed, but zarya isn't anti-omnic anymore, seemingly

[stark folio]

I wouldn't say she is anti-omnic just traumatized

[peak escarp]

she's got a more nuanced take on omnics

she has realized that they're not all bad

[stark folio]

Because her original experience was they're not all bad once she got out of the place she lived

[peak escarp]

but some still are, like the ones attacking her country

[stark folio]

Korea and Russia are being attacked

[peak escarp]

I certainly wouldn't call her pro-omnic

[shrewd pivot]

she used to be anti-omnic. the omnium in russia seemingly had warbots, not awakened omnics. so zarya was treating awakened omnics like those warbots (or atleast being disrespectful), Zarya def was traumatized.

[stark folio]

So they don't much like omnics

Zarya doesn't know better because she didn't have the experience before

I mean because d.va still calls Bob cute and he is a omnic

[shrewd pivot]

yeah that's a good point. a lot of her anti-omnic lines from ow1 were removed tho, and in ow2 and forward, she's now a part of overwatch and overwatch has Bastion and Orisa, so Zarya would have to get comfortable with robots around sooner or later atleast

[stark folio]

I mean they're both reprogrammed robots

To my recollection

[shrewd pivot]

Zarya is understandable why she is hesitant, but being anti-omnic is shown as immoral in overwatch, as seen with Torbjorn's arc.

[stark folio]

I wouldn't say immoral if you had seen people killed by them

The omnic crisis was horrible and bastions kind were on the forefront of massacring people

To be fair

[shrewd pivot]

Bastion is an awakened omnic (just had some anubis coding removed)

Orisa is not an awakened omnic, but she was made from the parts of old omnic units.

[stark folio]

I don't blame torbjorn he is valid

His hatred considering what he saw during the omnic crisis

I wouldn't trust omnics either

[spare fox]

yeah I mean there is a little more nuance to it than that

[shrewd pivot]

actually, Torbjorn's arc was about him realizing his anti omnic hatred was more about him (survivors guilt) than it was about bastion.

[spare fox]

I mean omnics killed 2 BILLION people, pretty much everyone knows someone who was killed