lore-discussion

[civic lynx]

They got rid of sym’s lock on aim and it made her way more interesting to play

[crisp canyon]

Syms lock on was way different than what Moira has, and interesting is a statement as someone who mains sym I think she’s consistently been made less fun to play and I’ve seen other mains say the same, like wall is just stupid and teleporter is basically a troll ability now

[civic lynx]

Wall is stupid I agree but I’ve never seen tp as anything bad

Just kinda boring

[crisp canyon]

Moira is like the anti mercy, it makes sense her dmg is similar to mercy like their beams, moira aim now is more similar to sym you just track it’s not like it locks on and never lets go which is what syms originally did

[sand veldt]

I hate moira

I don’t even main dps, I main Ram and Sig

I still hate her

[brittle sky]

I mean main announcement does not mean all the other games get nothing.

[civic lynx]

I agree but I think that will overshadow the new heroes which blizzard wouldn’t want to do

I think with ow the main announcement will be doom’s survival cinematic as well as gameplay of the Iceland map and reveal its release date if it’s not part of S4 and just being hidden

[brittle sky]

They showed off new heroes during blizzcons dominated by other games before

[civic lynx]

S5 and S6’s heroes will be kept for their respective playtest announcement trailers or just have teasers

[limber saddle]

does anyone know why brigette has ginger/brown hair but both her parents are blonde? is there lore to it orrrr

[brittle sky]

just genetics. recessive genes are things

[sand veldt]

Why did hanzo try to kill genji again?

[keen perch]

power struggle

[sand veldt]

Was it true hanzo is actually better with swords than genji?

Also why tf do all the concept arts of the characters look so much cooler than the actual ones

[civic lynx]

OW1 concepts were made with a completely different theme in mind so they got way more detailed and in depth with the concepts, also first drafts of concepts aren’t designed with animation and skin possibilities in mind

The original OW1 roster concepts are essentially redesigned versions of project titan classes which based on the like 3 environment concepts we have for that thing would’ve been much more detailed and realistic than what OW became

[sand veldt]

Like hazards “phreak” design

Or how genji and hanzo were originally supposed to be 1 character

[civic lynx]

Phreak looks like he would’ve fit the somewhat wartorn/apocalyptic theming of project titan

Once ow shifted towards a more clean futuristic design it dint fit in anymore

[sand veldt]

What could’ve been…

But ow has been kicking back into high gear again so

[civic lynx]

The phreak concept and most of OW1’s hero concepts were designed when ow had this type of style in mind that probably would’ve made the game PC exclusive

They eventually moved towards the cleaner, slightly more basic style OW1 had so it could run smoothly on less powerful pc’s and consoles as well as just making the game easier to understand what on earth is happening during gameplay

[keen perch]

still they should add all those maps in

[civic lynx]

A lot of them are in the game

[edgy meadow]

concept rarely look worse than the end product

[civic lynx]

London kings row
Kyoto temple hanamura/hanaoka (more so hanamura)
Berlin eichenwalde (changed locations but kept the destroyed city/town theme)
Iron star became volskaya
India became Suravasa years later
Numbani is numbani
San Joaquin and the bayou could’ve merged into junkertown
Cairo temple/throne of Anubis

[gusty cloak]

berlin looks like TLOU

[civic lynx]

I wish we had more concept art of it bc it looks peak

[gusty cloak]

true

they should make these concept arts as it is. they revisioned some of them but they could still use the original designs

galapagos looks sick. its like some underwater city

[civic lynx]

The iris, Galapagos, Berlin and the bayou I want to see in game today

[sand veldt]

I love this game but goddamn

I wish they’d have gone with that

[gusty cloak]

irish shouldve been in the game already tbh

[civic lynx]

The recently added then removed version of junkertown seems to have the same type of lighting

But it would be cool to see that actual location

[gusty cloak]

hero on the right in the last pic is one of the silhouttes shown for this new season

[civic lynx]

The silhouette is D.mon

The wildebeeste hero in that image isn’t them

[gusty cloak]

oh

[civic lynx]

They definitely could end up in game at some point in the next few years tho

Hazard, Freja, echo etc are ow1 concepts redesigned to fit the game today and I’m pretty sure wildebeeste does exist in lore as an actual character

So there’s nothing stopping them becoming playable

[gusty cloak]

i much prefer the original phreak design over hazard

she looked much more interesting

[sand veldt]

Phreak was female?

[civic lynx]

The concept could be a man or woman tbh

[gusty cloak]

sorry got it confused with that spider lady with pink hair

what's her name?

[civic lynx]

Recluse

[sand veldt]

Who?

[civic lynx]

The mouth beam one

[sand veldt]

Anyone got a pic?

[gusty cloak]

i NEED her in game

she looks so fun to play

[civic lynx]

She does NOT fit ow today

She fits a like 10v10 massive scale mode

[gusty cloak]

her little spider bots could be interesting as a tank

[civic lynx]

I kinda feel like domina is taking inspiration from her design (the bug wings and domina’s butterfly inspired arms)

But I just can’t see them adding recluse today

[gusty cloak]

oh true

speaking of domina, why does she use those arms to float? is she disabled?

[brittle sky]

power struggle is off. Hanzo had to step up to take over the Shimada after his father's murder, and the clan elders wanted him to get Genji in line (genji was a reprobate just kinda coasting on family money). That apparently did not go well, and escalated to him wrecking Genji with a sword.

[sand veldt]

Would

[sand veldt]

Genji used to be a lazy guy?

Hard to imagine him being anything but an edgelord

[brittle sky]

I mean he's currently a reformed edgelord. But turns out even lazy rich guys get their act together when you cut one to pieces with a sword and then put him back together as a cybernetic assassin, then his first job is to use his old training and new cybermurder body to wipe out the guys who ordered his death.

[sand veldt]

Yeah about that

Wasn’t Zen his mentor?

I thought zen was supposed to be yk

Pacifist

In lore

[brittle sky]

zen is notably not a pacifist (there's a whole line about it)

[civic lynx]

I think it’s just meant to make her better at wielding Hardlight

[sand veldt]

He’s just a chill guy

[brittle sky]

but he mentored genji in inner peace and self acceptance, not combat (that would be asa, the shimada sword master and kiriko's mom)

[sand veldt]

Common Zen w

[civic lynx]

Her body work fine but she wants to have this like effortless look (as well as to help her actually use Hardlight)

[dense garnet]

Talently disabled. She uses the arms for hardlight because she isn't naturally gifted at using it

[gusty cloak]

wouldve been interesting if she was disabled and thats what she thought holds her back from the other architects

[sand veldt]

Wonder if rivals and ow will ever collab

[dense garnet]

I'd prefer a DC collab

[civic lynx]

When we first saw her in the vendetta comic thing people thought she was disabled or some sort of extreme germophobe which would’ve been cool

But I’m fine with the explanation we got

[dense garnet]

Batman Reaper? I need

[civic lynx]

Probably not 😭

They’re competitors

[brittle sky]

like by the time zen mentored genji it was already post overwatch era, after genji had done all his murdering for blackwatch. but yes, zen while valuing peace and harmony is not a categorical pacifist. He explicitly denies it when accused by soldier, and also before becoming a shambali monk ram found him chucking bricks at cops (or some other form of violent resistance)

marvel and dc are huge and likely expensive as collabs go

[civic lynx]

Batman was in the ow collabs survey but I fear they were dreaming when putting it there bc I highly doubt they got the budget for that one

[dense garnet]

Tbf DC hasn't been doing so great lately

Also Martian Manhunter Juno would be funny

[civic lynx]

I saw this on Twitter a while back

I think there’s more but I can’t find the damn things

[dense garnet]

Ivy x Lifeweaver tbh

[civic lynx]

Only option that makes sense tbh

[brittle sky]

just came to say that

[brittle sky]

do we... wait does overwatch not have a manic pixie murder girl?

[civic lynx]

Killer croc doom and bane hazard are also mentioned (not sending the picture bc I’ve been auto muted for spam if I send images repeatedly 🫩)

[civic lynx]

Surprisingly not

[dense garnet]

Kiriko as Talia

[brittle sky]

yeahhhhh, have genji and kiriko have a kid together

[civic lynx]

I mean the skins are meant to just be cosplay 😭

[dense garnet]

I still think Reaper would he cooler for Batman

[brittle sky]

nope. canon now.

[brittle sky]

I'm sorry. Reaper and kiriko have a skin together.

[civic lynx]

Reaper’s outfit fits Batman more but he is a mass murderer

[brittle sky]

(so is genji honestly)

[dense garnet]

Im controversial media now

[civic lynx]

True

[brittle sky]

like cass definitely thinks they did war crimes against the shimada, and that would have been when genji was at his most edge

[dense garnet]

Did you know Batman has a pet dog

That wears a bat family outfit

[brittle sky]

there's so many bat family stuff now. running an orphanage all his own now

[bold fern]

is sym on the good or bad side considering she says "this is a misuse of my technology"

[brittle sky]

she's an ultimately moral person who has worked for a company putting her to bad ends, whose arc has been realizing that

[bold fern]

will she turn against domina eventually

[crisp canyon]

Neutral bad

[brittle sky]

she's currently looking into the death of the company's founder, who wanted to use the company's tech for good. Whether she breaks off after and hangs out with lifeweaver and his libertarian friends or fights domina for the soul of vishkar remains to be seen.

[dense garnet]

Ace the Batdog my beloved. He was found abandoned by Alfred and he took him to the mansion hoping he'd be a good support animal for Bruce, and he ended up getting so attached that he gave him a bat cowl and fights crime with him

German Shepard too. Good taste

[brittle sky]

i mean, I would not give someone a pass just for liking german shepherds. They're good dogs, but uh, not all who like them are good?

[crisp canyon]

Why are we talking ab Batman and dogs

[dense garnet]

This will be vital to the ow lore in 5 years trust

[mellow narwhal]

Good evening. Do you think the lore would allow for an entity, either energy or light, capable of traveling across the map via terminals installed there, dealing damage with bright flashes of light, pausing the game, making a localized section of the map appear frozen to players while a deployment or battle unfolds behind this "screen," camouflaging objects, and generally mechanics built on optical illusions? Or would such a character be too similar to Reaper, Symmetra, and Sombra?

[edgy meadow]

huh?

[mellow narwhal]

And could such an entity be an avatar of a living person, controlled remotely, or, in the context of Overwatch, would it be a person affected by experiments?

[brittle sky]

I think the issue would be the dependence on terminals which would vary wildly based on map, yes?

[mellow narwhal]

Well, perhaps yes. Simply as a form of mobility, independent of teleporters, translocators, or ghostly haze, moving across the map through an existing network.

[brittle sky]

so could there be a character that is a digital avatar of some technological entity?

[crisp canyon]

Anything is possible with hard light

[hushed jetty]

i dont know about "pausing the game" from a lore standpoint bc the game does not exist diegeticslly

[gusty cloak]

it needs to be studied why Scandinavian characters are so boring. Both freja from overwatch, and deadlock from valorant are Scandinavian and their characters are interesting on paper but in reality they have the personality of cardboard.

[hushed jetty]

freja's gotten a little more depth recently at least with the release of emre

[gusty cloak]

true. i love their connection

[mellow narwhal]

So, there's a battle going on, you aim the gun at the battlefield, and everything in the frame freezes. For those around you, it's as if someone has paused the game. However, when they enter that area, they see what's behind the screen. It's not about stopping time, it's about stopping the visual.

[median orchid]

As a Finnish guy I can confirm that all of our personalities are drier than the sahara desert, except while drunk.

[gusty cloak]

so the solution is an alcholic hero

i see

[median orchid]

Finnish hero will be a drunkie

[dense garnet]

Pretty much convinced that one of the future heroes will be voiced by Jinx Monsoon

Have no other idea why an actor would visit Blizzard HQ to pose in front of the Overwatch logo

[digital linden]

omg that would be amazing

i love jinkx

[civic lynx]

I’ve seen people say it’ll be S3’s hero but idk why

[brittle sky]

that we know - chernobog can seemingly digitize physical matter, and sigma seems to consider the metaphysical/digital consciousness of the iris to be real.

[dense garnet]

I think it's either s2 or s3

[brittle sky]

seems unlikely, given s3 is almost definitely a hashimoto hero

[dense garnet]

I've seen people wanting her to voice an omnic too

[brittle sky]

I think s3 and s4 will be voiced by people from their regions, which is most likely japan and korea respectively.

[brittle sky]

I think it's possible (I mean we have nameless going on as a plot significant nonbinary omnic).

[gusty cloak]

can someone give a short summary on the whole null sector invasion and how it stopped?

[crisp canyon]

Probably not for a hero this year they likely are recording a year out

[civic lynx]

Ig the image could be old and blizzard is allowing to post them now bc the hero will be revealed in lore soon (mizuki conquest week 👀)

If it is s3 that is

If it’s s2 idk bc none of the current 5 link to the deadlock gang and in general that storyline is probably… you know… for s2 itself

[brittle sky]

Null sector invaded major population centers using mass produced warbots that, given they were made post-aurora, are not sapient in the way bastion is.
Overwatch scrambled to respond, protect various centers.
Despite seeming like a large invasion of human populations, the actual point was to target omnic minority communities, who were forcibly given what are called subjugation helmets (I think that's not Ram's term). While its exact mechanism is still unknown, it's implied it takes the omnic's mind/being elsewhere, and that Ram is storing omnic minds safely away (without their consent) so they can outlive humanity, who he does not expect to last forever.
Overwatch saw some success saving omnics, but by and large the invasion was successful and Ram has subjugated/forcibly raptured a large swath of omnics. Calling the push good enough, he offered zen the chance to willingly join him, then bugged off to wherever his secret base is.
In brief: because we didn't buy enough of the invasion pack, Ram succeeded, a bunch of not plot relevant omnics got their minds jacked, and Ram (and presumably Doomfist, his backer all about throwing humanity up against non-fatal crucibles to harden them against existential threats) got most of what he wanted.

Oh, and the UN isn't happy Overwatch reformed, and while the crisis kept everyone too busy to prosecute, in the aftermath Sojourn (who despite her promises did not leave overwatch immediately after the null crisis) has been trying to negotiate some sort of legal status.

Winston, being and idiot, has been recruiting more agents under Sojourn's nose and definitely in violation of Overwatch's current legal gray zone.

[gusty cloak]

tysm

[prisma parrot]

Where do yall find all this info? I watched all the lore stuff on YouTube. So where do yall get all this info?

[opaque tundra]

The website has a media tab with a massive collection of comics and short stories

[past copper]

Animated shorts on YouTube, comics, short stories, novels, books, etc.

[dense garnet]

Animated shorts that are also available in the new story tab ingame

Reconciliation is a comic I recommend

Goes over the aftermath of Null Sector's invasion

Well not necessarily aftermath, but it's a conversation between Ramattra and Zenyatta

In the final stage of the invasion

[prisma parrot]

The same exact stuff on there is the same stuff on YouTube

[prisma parrot]

Okay thanks pookie imma look into it

[prisma parrot]

Thanks

[prisma parrot]

Yassss thanks I just found them, I wanna kiss you(if your 18+)

[opaque tundra]

I’m good thanks

[warped python]

dawg I just watched the doom v vendetta cinematic, ain't no way this random killed doom like that

[edgy meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1309644033844314133/1465510940689694740/BAHHH-4x.gif

[waxen canyon]

[dense garnet]

People still think doom is dead bruh

[teal blaze]

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist will return #Hopefist /j

But yeah no way Doomfist is actually dead imo

[shrewd pivot]

Someone should remake that with JPC.... Fika follows in Reinhardt's and Brigitte's footsteps... /j

[past copper]

Doomfist will return, potentially with assistance from Overwatch (they don't need to know they're helping him)

And once Vendetta is dethroned, Doomfist will not only reclaim Talon. He will finally put his plan into action

[turbid dock]

Although I'm kinda new to OW I'm trying to find some plot holes to fix

[wooden drift]

Why?

[waxen canyon]

[brittle sky]

what manner of holes, and what manner of fix?

[peak escarp]

most "plot holes" are just misconceptions or misinformation in the community

[turbid dock]

I heard that kiriko has a continuation issue

[turbid dock]

@peak escarp is this true?

[peak escarp]

yes

Blizzard has not addressed it or fixed it

[spare fox]

Do a search on this channel, it's been discussed to death

Old grandma saying, "stop looking for the hole in the doughnut"

[turbid dock]

I have a little theory

Might be a bit controversial but hear me out

Kiriko seems to use a lot of spiritual powers for her healing, maybe when she was young, she accidentally casted a curse on herself that causes her to cheat aging just like a sly kitsune

Or maybe it's a side effect of the exposure

[peak escarp]

maybe

but I don't think they'll ever address it

[turbid dock]

Who knows? Maybe they'll go back and fix it one day

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

Damnit

[snow aurora]

Why is this even a channel when they’ve practically killed the lore and story

[peak escarp]

you haven't played recently have you

[oblique spoke]

[oblique spoke]

Bah, that mumbo jumbo is just:

https://tenor.com/view/nano-machine-son-mgr-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-gif-14521237

[peak escarp]

and this is why we restrict image permissions

[spare fox]

I think they just put her age wrong in the bio. It's happened before and, while I know why certain people get hung up about it, it's not really a big deal, just an incorrect number that people are conflating into something it's not

They haven't addressed it yet bc it's not important enough and they're focusing on cooking things that actually matter

[crisp canyon]

Widow was around for young Ana and soldier and kid pharah and she’s like a year older than Pharah

Ages don’t make sense you just gotta accept it

[peak escarp]

Widow?

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[peak escarp]

where was this shown?

[crisp canyon]

Anas animated short when she loses her eye she young, widow is also young looking. and just lore in general, there’s no realistic way for widow to only be a year older than pharah, married to gerard and brainwashed and taken Ana’s eye

[peak escarp]

that sniper duel happened 8 years ago in the timeline

[crisp canyon]

How did Ana possibly age from captain amari to her default in a matter of 8 years

[peak escarp]

stress can age people a lot

[crisp canyon]

Not like thst 💀

[peak escarp]

she looks pretty old here

grey hair, wrinkles

[crisp canyon]

She’s visibly aged here compared to the video they initially put out for her

[peak escarp]

this is when she had her sniper duel with Widowmaker

this image is much older, 22 years before present, just after the end of the omnic crisis

[crystal saffron]

what is zen

[peak escarp]

Pharah is 12

[crystal saffron]

doing in lore

[crisp canyon]

Emre cass and mercy not being way older doesn’t make sense either tbh

[peak escarp]

Mercy and Cassidy are 17

[crisp canyon]

And they visibly did not age compared to soldier and Ana who became senior citizens

[peak escarp]

because Soldier and Ana are older than them

Soldier is 36, Ana is 40

[crisp canyon]

The ages just don’t make sense like I said

[peak escarp]

how does it not make sense

[crisp canyon]

How are minors recruited to overwatch? What skills or abilities would 17 yr old mercy or Cassidy have? Why are they so visibly young as founding members when Ana and 76 are double their age? That doesn’t make any sense

[peak escarp]

Mercy isn't a member yet, she's just visiting Torbjorn because he's a family friend
Cassidy was a founding member of a dangerous gang and was offered to join Overwatch rather than go to jail

they are not founding members

like I said, that photo is from after the crisis ended

the founding members were Jack, Ana, Gabe, Reinhardt, Torbjorn and Dr. Liao

[crisp canyon]

This seems alot more like a Kiriko thing than an official lore piece tbh

[peak escarp]

what

[crisp canyon]

Kiriko being like half Genji and Hanzo age despite growing up with them, this seems more like an oversight to mercy and Cassidy being not senior citizens

[peak escarp]

Kiriko didn't grow up with them

[crisp canyon]

Yes she did

[peak escarp]

she was around them when she was a child, but they were already grown up

[crisp canyon]

No

[peak escarp]

source?

Kiriko’s childhood was shaped by the many powerful figures in her life. She swept the floors of the Kanezaka shrine for her grandmother, and learned about her connection to the fox spirit. Her father was a famous bladesmith for the Shimada, and her mother, Asa, was their swordmaster. As such, Kiriko trained alongside Hanzo and Genji Shimada, whom her mother also instructed. Kiriko was treated like family, with Genji being especially fond of the young girl. They shared a love of mischief, filching sweets from the kitchen and pulling pranks on anyone too stuffy to appreciate their humor. Genji taught her the ins and outs of the Shimada Castle and even introduced her to the local arcade.

nothing in Kiriko's bio says she grew up at the same time as the Shimada brothers

she trained with them, which doesn't mean they were the same age

[crisp canyon]

Her origin story clearly depicts this, like how Ana is visibly young in hers when shot by widow

[peak escarp]

the only image of Kiriko with the brothers from her origin story is this

and she is definitely not the same age as them

[crisp canyon]

Those are children dawg 😭 she would be closer to 40 than her early twenties

[peak escarp]

and from Ana's origin story

definitiely older

[crisp canyon]

Maybe I did remember Ana wrong cause it’s been a long time but it still doesn’t seem realistic for widow to do all that in a matter of 10 years or so

[peak escarp]

Genji is 37, Hanzo is 40... based on that image from her origin I'd say she's about 10 years younger than them

so she should be in her late 20s rather than early 20s

not a huge difference

[crisp canyon]

I mean Yes it is cause it’s still inaccurate?

[peak escarp]

it's one age that's off by like 5 years

it's pretty insignificant

[crisp canyon]

It’s way more than 5 Genji and her were the same height in the video

[peak escarp]

I don't think so

[crisp canyon]

I can’t send pics or I would

Hanzo comes up to his fathers shoulder in that same video, while Kiriko is at her mothers waist, she’s 5 years younger at most in that video

[crystal saffron]

what

mercy is 40 or smt??

[peak escarp]

I mean in that photo

[crystal saffron]

oh

[peak escarp]

the photo from 22 years ago

[crystal saffron]

when was cass part of deadrock then

even younger?

[peak escarp]

Cassidy helped start Deadlock when he was only 15

Ashe was 17 - it was the summer before her 18th birthday

[peak escarp]

I moved them to be in line and adjusted for scale

I will conceed that their ages seem closer

but that's the artist's choice more than incorrect ages

[crisp canyon]

Kiri at least is 32 or above

But she’s not so we just have to accept the ages don’t make sense

[peak escarp]

so because one age is wrong, all the ages must be wrong

[crisp canyon]

Yeah kinda

[peak escarp]

that doesn't make any sense

every other age makes sense in the timeline

[crisp canyon]

Tracer age doesn’t make a ton of sense to join overwatch either she went thru the Air Force became a pilot and get her power and became a member of overwatch in its final year all by the time she’s like 21 is another inconsistency of time, mercy visibly is not middle aged, and cass and Ashe only knowing each other 2 years to being separated is a lore inconsistency considering they act like they’ve known each other forever

[peak escarp]

Tracer joined the Air Force very young - around 16 (she had her father's help getting in), so she had 5 years to do all that

Mercy not looking middle aged can be blamed on the Overwatch art style making everyone look soft and young, also she probably takes good care of her self being a doctor and all

the Cassidy and Ashe thing... yeah that is a bit weird, I guess they got really attached in 2 years

[keen summit]

You can also argue that cuz medicine and life expectancies go up, older people look younger. In old times younger people often also seemed to look older than they were, just look at old paintings and statues

[mellow narwhal]

As I understand it, Tracer completed two years of external training. She began training in the Royal Air Force at the same age she got her first motorcycle. She was in training from 16 to 18, and at 18 to 19 she became an Overwatch test pilot. She was a ghost in a stabilization chamber in 19 to 20, and completed training and was an agent for a time in 20 to 21.

Although I can't imagine the breakneck pace one must live at to complete a challenging five-year training program in two years. Without accelerators, sheer stubbornness, and considering she was previously a fidget with an attention deficit, an average student in school, and a regular at punk concerts, her desire to be a pilot was very strong. But the question is: who was Slipstream intended for, if Overwatch is an international organization? Who was the teleporting fighter supposed to fight against? The resources clearly use the word "fighter," not "laboratory aircraft" or "demonstrator aircraft."

[storm glen]

So junkerqueen gay?

[bold fern]

if doom gets back his guantlet what will he do

[digital linden]

was the doomfist always a full on arm prosthetic?
i just assumed it was like a gauntlet or something

i assume he just made it into one

[bold fern]

lost his arm in omnic crisis

so yes full prosthetics

[civic lynx]

We can see he has 2 arms (without the gauntlet) in the cinematic where he fights Winston but I think the gauntlet would require the user to have a prosthetic arm to use it properly

[low viper]

Hey, been trying to find some information about them, but does anyone have a backstory to the small creatures on Mercy’s and Juno’s mytical weapons? When I try look it up I just find info about Juno’s Marsian background.

[wise grotto]

Didn’t she spend 2 years lost in time time instead

[wise grotto]

Doom only had prosthetics he lost his srms when he was young

[rocky token]

are the omnics truly sentient?

[dawn topaz]

are humans?

Jokes aside, I would say so

Sentience is the ability to experience feelings and sensations.

And we see with characters like Ramattra that they can definitely experience emotions

[crisp canyon]

Cosmetics aren’t tied to lore unless they have a lore description

[grim condor]

Wdym? Wuyang is literally Joker

[rocky token]

follow up question then, do they still follow the 3 laws of robotics?

[dawn topaz]

no

[rocky token]

actually well clearly atleast not 1

yea i realized afterword lmao

[wise grotto]

Yes the actual omnics are sentient

The laws of robotics don’t apply to them period

[brittle sky]

the law of robotics are a presumption of a series of interconnected stories by isaac asimov. They do not necessarily apply to reality or to other fictional worlds.

[grim condor]

Well

Kinda hard to follow rule 1 with the whole

Omnic war

[rocky token]

yea i realized

[grim condor]

1500 casualties

Or was it 15000

😭

[rocky token]

1500 seems like very few ngl

for a war

[grim condor]

Yeah

[rocky token]

thats like a medium sized town

[dawn topaz]

mild annoyance

[brittle sky]

wasn't it something like 1,500,000,000?

30 million orphaned children I know is a statistic from the baptiste origin story.

[mystic orchid]

So rem and zen are like a gay couple right?

[wise grotto]

No not even close

[grim condor]

They're brothers.

[mystic orchid]

That's impossible because there 2 different models of omnic

So they must be gay lovers

[grim condor]

They call each other brother

Thats brother enough

[mystic orchid]

Not really

I can call you brother

There gay lovees

Lovers

[dawn topaz]

Hey so there's this thing called not being a troll

[grim condor]

Ykw

I respect the agenda

I do not understand it though

[grim condor]

Also obligatory they're*

[dawn topaz]

Ram and Zen are brothers in the same sense as when you call soldiers "brothers in arms" or christians "brothers" (Because God is our father and we are all his children)

[mystic orchid]

English isnt my first language

[dawn topaz]

They are friends/found family

[mystic orchid]

They are gay lovers

[grim condor]

Well make it first soldier

[mystic orchid]

Ty

[mystic orchid]

Nie

[mystic orchid]

I mean there isnt any evidence they arnt gay lovers

And a cute link would be the war and chaos of rem and the peace and love of zen

[grim condor]

But

Ram is allied with Talon

Who has Vendetta

And Vendetta hates gay men

[mystic orchid]

All is fair in love and war as the saying goes

[mystic orchid]

That's why its secret

[dawn topaz]

There is actually, Ramattra is in love with D.Va canonically

[grim condor]

Oh god

[dawn topaz]

[mystic orchid]

Maybe that's why hes always angry

[grim condor]

Bi King?

[mystic orchid]

Elton John had a wife before he came out gay

[dawn topaz]

true...

[mystic orchid]

We can go around in circles

[grim condor]

Because Elton John is bisexual

[mystic orchid]

Yh

My point is

Zen and rem>

[dawn topaz]

Except he would meet D.Va after Zenyatta so Zenyatta is the Elton John wife allegory

[grim condor]

Wait no he isnt I just googled it

The fuck

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra and Zenyatta are monastic brothers (monks, who are now ex-monks) and found family siblings dynamics (overwatch writer joked about Mondatta, Ramattra, Zenyatta, and Genji being like Malcolm in the middle, blood brothers)

I see it similar to Genji and Kiriko. They might not be blood related, but they are platonic only familial dynamics in canon.

[mystic orchid]

He's hiding his love with zen by talking about loving dva

[shrewd pivot]

Mondatta, Zenyatta, and Ramattra are platonic only in canon.

[grim condor]

Does this mean

He would watch the animations

[shrewd pivot]

can you please stop

[grim condor]

I dont like how this makes sense

[mystic orchid]

Vendetta secretly loves doomfist but hides it with violence that's why shes so obsessed with talon?

[grim condor]

Bro

[mystic orchid]

That is just a joke dw

[grim condor]

Shitposting is against the rules here they will get you bruh

[shrewd pivot]

Ngl I cannot wait for that trenchcoat omnic to release so the omnic fandom ships Ramattra with someone else than his canon platonic brother for once im tired, boss.

[mystic orchid]

Its a bit of tomfoolery

[grim condor]

Tenchcoat omnic???😭

[mystic orchid]

Ngl

Its a wild one

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah new hero silhouette, second from the right

[grim condor]

Mf lookin like rorschach

I want that tank.

They are large.

I like them.

[shrewd pivot]

D.MON from the MEKA squad, the robot is a mech

[grim condor]

No shot

Im crying

[mystic orchid]

But I reckon that the omni dieties will be poorly written

[grim condor]

D.va and D.mon

😭

[shrewd pivot]

Omni dieties? Like the Iris?

[mystic orchid]

No like anubis

The iris isnt a diety

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah there's also Overlord, etc. D.MON was an established character from MEKA squad years ago

[grim condor]

Efi when

When was the last time Efi or Orisa has done something

[mystic orchid]

Nah it won't be them

Its too big

I reckon it'll be an omnic

[grim condor]

Thats a different silhouette, no?

[mystic orchid]

Or someone like hazard

[shrewd pivot]

We won't be getting her as a hero, Efi is like tween age. Orisa stands in her place on the roster

D.MON concept art was shown in the background during dev video, so it will be D.MON

(Don't worry I thought it didn't look alike at first either lol)

[grim condor]

Ohh ok

[mystic orchid]

I think we need another African character they always slap

[dawn topaz]

Also the concept art, while blurry, does show a different mech design

[grim condor]

Doomfist punches

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it does look different, apparently there's a mech head that can pop up?

[mystic orchid]

I think a tank that is of African decent would be cool

Like someone who was close with doomfist

But is presumably dead

[dawn topaz]

they are not adding dead characters

[mystic orchid]

Presumably

Its part of lore

[shrewd pivot]

Here is a more HD image, pardon

Imo it does look pretty different, but the video had D.MON concept art in the back, so it's a tweaked D.MON mech ig

[brittle sky]

they also notably updated the model for d.mon's mech where it sits in MEKA base with the new season to better resemble the silhouette

[shrewd pivot]

Oh fr?

I would love a Pic of that if possible

I hope it still retains the unique looking design elements of MEKA mechs, the shell like kinda nonhumanoid look is very iconic, love the art of the MEKA squad mechs

[shrewd pivot]

Okay pardon! Those are called "God ai".

Anubis god ai of ecosystem conservation is currently contained in Egypt. Anubis caused the first omnic crisis.

Chernobog god ai of global security in Finland, was shut down during the first omnic crisis. Chernobog god ai seems to have been restarted, and is involved with Emre and the eye conspiracy (the group Sombra ran from) somehow.

I personally find Emre's story pretty interesting, I doubt the overwatch writers would pull a "Anubis 2: Electric boogaloo" with Chernobog but we will see. Lol

[dawn topaz]

The 100th Hero will just be Anubis inside of an Omnic vessel it built during the omnic crisis

[shrewd pivot]

I always wanted a God ai avatar of sorts on the roster, Emre is really close to that concept :)

[brittle sky]

lemme fact check that first

[shrewd pivot]

A friend will grab a snapshot for me today, no worries! Even if its not the case you're fine. /genuine

Presumably it's a redesign of this D.MON mech bc of the weapons

[wise grotto]

Imma be honest I think one reason they’d redesign is because of how awful coding dvas remech and demech was

Redesigning it to be different to not make it look like they’d wanna do the remech and demech or can’t do it wouldn’t exactly be a horrible choice

[shrewd pivot]

How would the 3d model body type (squat humanoid vs very humanoid) play into a remech animation?

Ohhh

Well they could have kept the body type, just redesign the hull to be solid as to not imply demeching

I wonder if the universal emotes have influenced the team to redesign heroes to have very human like body types (full limbs, head, etc) to make the pipeline easier (JPC launched with no universal emotes). I personally preferred the more non human chunky look of the earlier D.MON mech

[wise grotto]

I mean
Who knows
They might wanna make dmon more gundam inspired to

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch notably has more so anatomically correct long thigh bones to lower leg bones, if not outright stylized longer legs, but with big heads, hands, and feet so it's a pretty distinctive patterm when all the body types (now mechs included) get long legs

Overwatch characters often fall into "fashion" if not "heroic" stylization

Heroes having these exact proportions would make the universal emote pipeline a lot easier bc it seems they are using ik rigs with universal bones like fortnite does,

not a proportional ratio rig (meaning any ratio body type could get the same dance emote) which is much more complicated to create and implement

I hope this doesn't mean we are only getting Soldier76 and Ashe ratios going forward for non animal heroes. I would love more shape use body types like Junkrat, Torbjörn, etc.

In fact! Torbjörn was actually designed to be shorter than initial concepts to sell the design's shape use, I have a feeling the new team would have kept Torbjörn this taller height lol.

And due to this design change, our canon Torbjörn (if you take in game models as near canon) is below 147cm (4 foot 10 inches), which is the medical height threshold for "a person of short stature" or "little people" (Dwarfism conditions are not the only thing that can impact height)

Torbjörn is like 4 foot 8 inches, iirc

Now a WoW-dwarf inspired character being a person of short stature is debatable as actually positive rep, but imo it's still nice to have Torbjörn presented as a loving father and very capable and a character that has depth beyond his trope.

[peak escarp]

the only (human) hero shorter than me

I'm 4'11" (149cm), just above that threshold

[dry pebble]

I wonder how unique they will implement the sword and shield to its moveset as Tank

[civic lynx]

Imo it kinda seems like they’ll be a new, maybe faster version of Reinhardt

[dry pebble]

Even considering the fact they may have insperation from other Hero Shooters i can't make up my mind

[civic lynx]

Since they’re using a whole ass mech they’ll have more mobility than rein

But they excel when in front of the team and defending against the enemy dps

[dry pebble]

I only wish it ends up being refreshing with new mechanics like Domina

I never seen a character that uses similar mechanic within Domina's shield and Ult it is that awesome

[civic lynx]

Tbh I don’t have the highest expectations

They said s3’s hashimoto hero is the coolest character this year

Imo it looks somewhat bleak for d.mon in terms of creative gimmicks 😭🙏🏽

[crisp canyon]

Praying she’s not dive or stalwart

[dry pebble]

Do you think it will be able to hop off her Mech after losing it but instead of going ranged as DVA and it stays Melee

[civic lynx]

I think they’ll not have any form of demech for d.mon

[crisp canyon]

They will cause cosmetics

[civic lynx]

Dva caused chaos in development bc of the bugs it caused when she was moving between being baby dva and in the mech

[dry pebble]

Perhaps

[civic lynx]

They might just not include it for d.mon to speed up dev time

[dry pebble]

True

[crisp canyon]

Yeah but that was early 2010s development we are mid 2020s now development a little different

[peak escarp]

they could have given Hammond and Fika demech models for cosmetics, but they didn't

[civic lynx]

Blizzard are still godawful at dealing with bugs

[crisp canyon]

They would not sell

[civic lynx]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they still can’t do it 😭🙏🏽

[crisp canyon]

I think they’ve probably figured it out given she’s been in the game 10 years

[civic lynx]

They can’t even get skins to operate normally let alone characters when the last time they tried one it caused major issues

[peak escarp]

I'm fine with D.mon not having eject

let it stay as D.Va's gimmick

[dry pebble]

I can't recall the name of those roles can you listen em up again

[peak escarp]

on a more lore related note... I wonder what names the rest of her esports team had - D.struction? D.light?

[crisp canyon]

I think dmon demech might naturally detonate as a passive ability, like a small bomb or combust to differentiate from dva

[dry pebble]

Fww considering all possible gamebreaking skills in game they are pretty fine with it

[civic lynx]

I hope when we get d.mon they expand more on the other ones as well via a cinematic

[crisp canyon]

Do we think dmon is joining talon

[peak escarp]

probably not a cinematic, but a comic or short story, hopefully

[civic lynx]

I doubt it

[shrewd pivot]

Ye! bc i am on the topic and I enjoy some fun facts about the world: There's def an ancestry bias with the medical definition of 147cm/4 foot 10 inches height being the threshold, so it truely depends on ancestry. (Dwarfism has different medical care needs vs a people group that averages shorter)

For example, there are indigenous groups in Africa that showcase some of the tallest people groups (Dinka of Sudan, 6 foot+ average) and shortest people groups (Mbuti people, or Bambuti of the Congo region, below 4 foot 6 inches average) in the world. You also see great variety of body types across the globe, too ofc! I just think it's a very cool thing to learn about :)

[crisp canyon]

I think DMON might play more like a mix of Orisa and rein

[dry pebble]

Ironic how those two characters are almost exact opposite of each other

[shrewd pivot]

People were suggesting a "stomp" mechanic for D.MON and it reminded me if DVA's stadium gimmick iirc, that might be what happens for D.MON!

[civic lynx]

That would be cool

[dry pebble]

Wait you mean the ability that causes AOE damage upon use in movement

Yeah i definetly can see the happening with D Mon actually

[crisp canyon]

I wonder if they’ll give her an animal like how dva has a bunny thing going

[shrewd pivot]

True...

[dry pebble]

Isnt she has one arleady

Not an animal but it is a demon, likely an imp

Hence the name D MON

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah tho tbf D.VA doesn't really relate to bunnies lol

[crisp canyon]

Idk I kinda hope it’s a snake or something tho to mirror dva

[shrewd pivot]

I am going to love the Leet speak between D.MON and D.VA tho lol

[dry pebble]

I think a Demon is fine imo

[shrewd pivot]

Same

If it ends up being an animal motif, I hope it's something culturally related atleast

[crisp canyon]

A tiger then lol

[shrewd pivot]

Demon + Nation animal of Tiger...? Ehhhh i hope it would be something else haha

Unless it's like, warding off threats then that works ig

[crisp canyon]

It could be a bear 2 since we don’t have a bear associated character

[dry pebble]

Zarya off the chart

Slightly

Since Russia

[crisp canyon]

Ig

[dry pebble]

I honestly can't associate her with any animal at all

[shrewd pivot]

My guess is maybe this as a D.MON motif? If she's meamt as a being that scares away threats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dokkaebi

[dry pebble]

Nahh

I think her demon motif would be more akin to being cutesy intimidating chibi character

Like that one bat from hello kitty

[crisp canyon]

Im still waiting for blizzard to deliver on the animal skins from the Lucio questions

[shrewd pivot]

He's making Ribbit style mascot head skins for everyone just you wait /j

[shrewd pivot]

Hm true. There's a ton of Korean mythology they could pull from, I am hype

[crisp canyon]

We have a bunny, pig, gorilla, hamster, frog, bird, spider, lynx, cat, fox, wolf and lion associated with heroes we need a reptile

[edgy meadow]

the main thing im curious about is how thye plan to make yuna's design distinct from hana's

same-face syndrom aside, theyre literally part of the same squad, are of the same age, and have the same meka jumpsuit

i feel like its going to be recieved weirdly if we just get a 'dva but again'

[crisp canyon]

We’ve seen dmon face alr

[civic lynx]

If they stick closer to her concept design she doesn’t really resemble dva imo other than they both wear a jumpsuit but they’re not the same colour (bare minimum but still)

If they changed the jumpsuit design or made her wear a different uniform for whatever reason she wouldn’t resemble dva at all

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, just bc its a meka suit doesn't mean she will have the same colors, face, headset, or hair style. Just similar enough. Blackwatch skins for example shared enough similarities while still being distinct. If D.MON does not demech, that gives another reason to differ the characters too, the focus will be on her mech more so than D.VA

[edgy meadow]

valid

[shrewd pivot]

I hope D.MON gets a less eurocentric face sculpt tho, that is a valid concern

[crisp canyon]

Even if was just dva against most ppl for years have been asking for basically that

[edgy meadow]

mechanically, id love that

visually, not as much

[shrewd pivot]

I wanted a MEKA support, personally lol. Overlord embodied a relatively unseen kind of male hero as the maknae of MEKA at the time (not super macho manly man like Baptiste, and Lucio was cute and fun but still very masculine)

but tbf we have Lifeweaver as the charming prince that is more effeminate than other men healers, Wuyang (he's very up and coming macho to me bc of his silly dehydrated muscles and Wuxia trope lol) as a youthful perspective, and Mizuki now as not-macho-not-cute male support so eh ig Overlord can wait

[edgy meadow]

i dont see how the mekas would work on non-tanks

[crisp canyon]

Too big I agree

[peak escarp]

I'm happy we're getting more male supports and female tanks

[shrewd pivot]

JPC without a Torbjörn size hitbox and without indefinite flight

[dense garnet]

Dokkaebi
Rainbow Six Siege mention

[dense garnet]

You'd just have to scale them down in size

Dva's already scaled down and she's a tank

[peak escarp]

male supports because it's rare to see men in supportive or nurturing roles, and female tanks because I like strong women it's good to see women in powerful/dominant roles

[crisp canyon]

We just need a white man in support to break the support category being made up of minorities and women

[dense garnet]

Soldier 76

[shrewd pivot]

You could make Overlord's mech smaller for sure (more drop pod size, less DVA mech size), but a wide hitbox flying support that has some kind of support shield gimmic or something could work?

[crisp canyon]

This would be like adding a helicopter to the game lol

[peak escarp]

JPC already has free flight

[crisp canyon]

Yeah but cat isn’t the size of a helicopter

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf if overwatch is set in the future where the first omnic crisis occured near 2051, India would probably be the most populous country if you go by global population predictions. If anything it's bizzare we don't have an Indian man on the roster yet lol

I personally want more SWANA, African continent, and South American continent heroes on the roster

[shrewd pivot]

I personally think it was a bad move to make JPC have such a small hitbox + indefinite flight + quiet normal flight. JPC's fast flight has sound, but seemingly her normal flight is quiet.

[spare fox]

Even though it's an "international roster" I don't think they're focusing so much on an equal realistic distro, though
Because all the heroes, especially the most recent ones, are all interconnected somehow

I think they're going to focus more on making heroes connected to the story rather than making sure the most populous countries are equally represented

[peak escarp]

I'd rather have heroes connected to the story than have random heroes with new ethnicities just to add diversity

[gusty cloak]

she looks like she would play like doom. melee character that closes space and uses shield to block damage

[crisp canyon]

It’s more ab breaking the stereotype of the support cast being women and minorities than ab act representing and distribution

[shrewd pivot]

Oh not that they have to ofc, but Doomfist and Orisa are notable as Yoruba-land but scifi worldbuilding bc Nigeria is a country said to gain in population in the future.

My guess is that the og team did look at predictions for what country populations might be like in the future, bc India and Nigeria are notable additions to overwatch lore

[gusty cloak]

does anyone even take the whole water college fire college thing seriously? It might be the worse part of overwatch lore ever

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed.

At the same time, we REALLY do not need any more American, Mexican, and Japanese heroes so soon.

They could write lore for new countries like how Doomfist and Orisa were, creating solid lore foundations to wirk off of, and expand the world building.

[spare fox]

and even though Heroes are the most important for the game, it's also notable that many supporting, non-hero characters come from diverse regions too

[gusty cloak]

they need to get out of east asia for like the next 10 heros

[peak escarp]

it is good to see places outside of East Asia, NA and Europe as being centers of technological progress

[peak escarp]

American and Japanese i get, but Mexican? we have one

and a half, I guess

[shrewd pivot]

I want the Phillipines / Manila cybertech company explored somehow, be it side characters or roster heroes. The 1st omnic crisis apparently hit the Phillipines hard, so i am very interested in how the nation rebuilt and what the culture is like there now after the crisis (very anti-omnic maybe?)

[gusty cloak]

also please stop making edgy annoying characters. mizuki is so interesting but his voiceline interactions are just kiriko 2.0

[shrewd pivot]

Venture, Sombra, and Reaper.
Venture half, Reaper Americanized, and Sombra fully.

[peak escarp]

I want an Australian hero who isn't a Junker, someone from one of the big cities

Reaper is born American

[shrewd pivot]

Yep! I meant his Mexican heritage is Americanized over the generations, he is Mexican American

There are tons of other countries to pick from besides Mexico for new heroes, i would accept a Los Muertos hero ig, bit i want to see other countries lore in overwatch explored.

[peak escarp]

so I count him as American, not Mexican

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair. I count him as Americanized Mexican culture, still Mexican rep enough to get luchador and mariachi skins, Mexican players connect with him, etc

[gusty cloak]

i dont understand why they dont make the hero designs that have already been teased since the release of overwatch. like emre is one that was shown before. they dont really have to make so many new ones. otherwise it results in things like.. water college

[shrewd pivot]

There's recluse, she's on the table still ig

Hivemind and soundquake were mentioned in lore too iirc

[gusty cloak]

please yes

[shrewd pivot]

I don't mind new heroes but I mind the context. I like Mizuki's lore and I bet the Hashimoto hero will be interesting too, but we really didn't need more Japanese humans with 'magicy' power kits so soon. A Japanese hero that isn't an Anima tech user, or an omnic Japanese hero, atleast would have been something fresh.

Like Emre is still cyborg with digitizing powers like Sombra connected to eye conspiracy lore, but he is the first case of an augmented human being hacked by an ai in worldbuilding, and he furthers overwatch plots with Freja and the eye conspiracy, AND he lets us look into Turkey's lore in overwatch which hasn't been explored yet. It wouldn't suprise me if we get an Istanbul map one day to show the worldbuilding of Turkey

[civic lynx]

I think it’s fine since they actually give extra detail to them (water is medicine, fire is combat training etc)

Isn’t exactly peak writing but it doesn’t bother me

[shrewd pivot]

It's a westernized bastardization of Wuxing philosophy unfortunately (Wuxing is a foundation for Taoism, so getting Wuxing so wrong that it's antithetical to the philosophy is kind of wild). That's why I dislike it, because it's obvious they didn't do any real research into Wuxia genre or Wuxing philosophy yet are claiming to be inspired by it. Yet, other heroes got time and care for thier inspos. It's really shallow writing imo

[civic lynx]

I’m not educated at all on the philosophy they took it from (I didn’t even know it was inspired by anything prior to actually being in this chat frequently) so I can’t comment on how they took that and used it for them, but I do think as an idea in general it is somewhat basic and just done to set up elemental wielding heroes being more frequent

[spare fox]

I kinda like that it's 'basic' because it literally just gives these brand-new adults a framework narrative-wise to grow into their own heroes

[civic lynx]

I think it could’ve been given more depth and been told in a way where it’s accurate to what it’s meant to represent but they didn’t do that bc they just wanted to add something that would explain why heroes with elemental powers are in OW’s world without “it’s magic”

[gusty cloak]

they didnt even put much effort into the whole its not magic but its technology thing. wuyang controls his water balls with his fingers, and his fingers literally glow. they couldve made him use some type of mechanical finger glove that controls the water or something. maybe the water balls themselves are encased in some sort of nearly invisible metallic membrane that is being controlled by the glove. just throwing random stuff out there

[civic lynx]

IMO with wuyang it kinda feels like they were gonna finally just say fuck it we allow magic, then backtracked 3/4 of the way through and had to create a technological reason quickly

[spare fox]

I mean, you guys are kinda just assuming what the writers/designers were thinking and then getting mad about it, just FYI doing this, if you want to be mad about something, you'll definitely find it

like I said yesterday, looking for the hole in the doughnut

like, yes, you can internet research everything and find things that don't "add up" but it's not supposed to be a research project... it's an optimistic sci-fi that borrows from comic book superheroes video game like

lighten up

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah if you don't know Wuxia (Chinese pulp fiction) or Wuxing(chinese alchemy), the overwatch Wuxing college seems kind of like an Avatar the last air bender set up.... which is an issue in of itself.

The issue is, Avatar the last Airbender uses the western alchemy elements: Earth, water, fire air,

and Wuxing uses the Chinese alchemy elements: Water, Fire, Earth, Wood, Metal.

The issue is, Overwatch's college is straight up called Wuxing university and the lore says they used traditional Chinese wuxing philosophy, but it doesn't at all. Wuyang is portrayed as a Taoist (mentions of chi, etc) but the college botches what Wuxing represents entirely. In Wuxing, No one element is superior, if one element is too strong it is believed to cause illness, balance of all elements is the goal. Fire college being more prestigious than water college in a "Wuxing university" makes zero sense. All Wuxing elements represent a philosophy, which is then interpreted into variety of lifestyle activities like music, martial arts, texts, etc. The element philosophy is "cultivated" as seen in the "cultivation genre" and famously in Wuxia where heroes cultivate certain elemental techniques to achieve powers.
Fire college should NOT be the only martial arts college, as there is martial arts for every element as seen in the styles of: Fire tiger, water serpent, metal monkey, earth mantis, Wood (includes wind) crane.

Lastly, Black is the color representing Water in Wuxing, and green/blue is the color representing Wood in Wuxing. Wuyang's supposed "Wuxing college" set in China doesn't even use a dark blue to reference black, it uses westernized colors of "water =blue" for a Wuxing university. Wuyang's water college is represented with Wuxing Wood element color.

If the college wasn't "Wuxing university" set in China with Wuyang being inspired by Wuxia stories, it wouldn't be an issue. But since it is, it's fair to say it is westernized botched rep of Chinese culture/media.

[spare fox]

I'm just saying, we're FINALLY getting the lore we've been craving for 10 years now, and all this chat has been is nitpicking the same 4 things over and over and over again for a week

[shrewd pivot]

If you love something, you care enough to critique it. I've been pointing out the issues with Wuxing university since Wuyang's release, not just since the new hero release

There's tons of lore to be hyped for tho!

[spare fox]

there's critiquing and then there's nitpicking

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair, can you give an example so I can understand better? /genuine

[edgy meadow]

the color representation is one thing, but i think theres a ton of potential with the symbolism of Wuxing Academy trivializing the symbolism of balance of the elements to elevate the pristiege of the school as a representation of imbalance in nature and/or society

[spare fox]

like, it's inspired by wuxing like how Reinhardt is inspired by medieval crusaders and chivalry.... it's not going to be 1:1

[shrewd pivot]

Kiriko as a modernized Shinto Miko Shrine maiden is pretty on par with Shinto beliefs, so I don't get why Wuyang and Anran and Wuxing university isn't on par with Wuxing systems

[dense garnet]

When did it ever say that the fire college was more prestigious?

Anran is just a prodigy

[spare fox]

your example above about the colors in Wuxing. OW is an inspired by things - it's art - it's not a research paper

[edgy meadow]

in wuyang's backstory video its basically directly said that the fire college is seen as the premiere section of the college, and Wuyang trying and failing to get into that school epitomizes his struggle to prove his worth in the face of his sister

thats why a big thing with wuyang is that, even tho he didnt have the combat training youd get in the fire college, he chose to go and fight off the null sector invasion and managed to prove his worth as a hero

[spare fox]

because Kiriko isn't the same as Anran and Wuyang. They (writers-designers-devs) take as many or as few artistic liberties as they want for the sake of making something interesting - they're not making a doctoral thesis that needs to be cited academically

[shrewd pivot]

Because in Wuxing colors, sounds, numbers, even times are important to the beliefs, the colors representing the elements does indeed culturally matter. The color representing could have been done in a way that reads universal, not western

So far we have
Anran red for fire (correct, also universal)
Wuyang blue for water (westernized, a dark blue could read as universal to reference Wuxing black)

Ming is Grey (westernized, a shiny silver that looks white-light grey would have matched the white in Wuxing)

Unknown: Wood (wuxing is green/blue, easily green as universal color), Earth (Wuxing is yellow, easily sand as universal color)

[dense garnet]

Something to note is that the only reason why the fire college is so prestigious is because fire college students fended off the omnics during the Crisis. So you can argue that the Omnic Crisis created an imbalance within the university

[edgy meadow]

ye thats why im not arguing about the color representation being wrong

im addressing the other you made about how in Wuxing no one element is supposed to be superior to another and imbalance in the elements is unhealthy

[dense garnet]

And you see this again during Null Sector's invasion. Fire college students were brought to the frontlines while Water College students stayed behind to mend the injured. I think that this inequality is meant to be purposeful storytelling

There could be a moment in the lore where this philosophy backfires and the Fire College gets overwhelmed and defeated by a powerful force, and everyone around them goes down with them, before getting saved by Overwatch (Anran and Wuyang specifically working together in the fight)

Thus reforming that balance

[dawn topaz]

Fire vs Water discrimination

[dense garnet]

I think that it's meant to be flawed to symbolize the imbalance that the teachings in real life suggest

[dawn topaz]

because Omnicphobia is not interesting anymore

[dense garnet]

So yeah I don't think that the university is trying to be a 1 to 1 of Wuxing. It's trying to adhere to the bad side of the philosophy which is the imbalance of the elements if one is deemed more superior to the others

I think that would be a cool plotpoint

[lethal tree]

Does anyone know where Jetpack Cat came from? Same experiment as Winstom and Wrecking ball, or something else?

[dense garnet]

You could also argue that Wuyang is kinda the start of fixing this kind of imbalance, seeing as he is just as capable a fighter as the Fire College students by beating one of their best fighters in a duel

[dawn topaz]

No, just Brigitte's pet

[dense garnet]

Nobody knows, speculation is everywhere

[dawn topaz]

slightly more intelligent than average cat

[dense garnet]

Technically incorrect

[lethal tree]

Seems too intelligent to just be a pet.

[shrewd pivot]

I view it as them prioritizing respecting Shinto beliefs over Daoist Wuxing beliefs, (not to mention overwatch is based on pulp fiction, and Wuxia is chinese pulp fiction) aka respecting one culture over another by taking time to research one vs not researching another, especially with how Wuyang's story is about the toxic 'earning conditional love' and how Anran dislikes traditional dancing.

Like, Symmetra embraces her traditional culture through kathak. Kiriko embraces her traditional culture through Miko Shrine maiden. I have no problem with Wuyang and Anran critiquing Chinese culture (Ashe and Soldier76 critique USA culture in many ways) but atleast correctly portray the culture they are critiquing, yknow? So far we have Mei and Juno dealing with Lucheng which is straight up evil apathetic Chinese company, and Wuyang and Anran dealing with straight up toxic Chinese community culture and botched rep of Wuxing.

I can't really think of another region depicted as that throughly evil thus far in overwatch. Not that China is a utopia lol but you get what I mean.

[dense garnet]

Fika is Brig's cat, but she didn't start out as Brig's cat

[dawn topaz]

Well yeah most cats usually don't start out as a pet

[dense garnet]

Yeah so the answer of "where did she come from" is incorrect

[dawn topaz]

fair

[dense garnet]

A better answer would've been "we don't really know, but she was found in Gibraltar in between some engine parts"

Hinting that she definitely is smarter than she is letting on

She also conveniently knocks over Brig's jetpack blueprints

I think that JPC has sentient intelligence, though she isn't as technologically smart as Hammond and Winton

[shrewd pivot]

See, I would think that too, but the comic said the university was inspired by Wuxing philosophy. With all the other botched rep of the Wuxia/Wuxing systems, I am hesitant to say they are going for an arc of where Wuyang and Anran come back to Wuxing University to help fix the colleges and get everyone working in elemental harmony a la Wuxing cultivation / Wuxia tropes. Especially since if they HAD to separate colleges, Metal college would be the medical college not Water college, bc in Wuxing Metal element is purification and alchemy healing tonic focused. Acupuncture is Earth element focused bc it's about irrigation/daming up chi flows similar to how earth is used to redirect rivers. "Go with the flow" is Wood element philosophy (bend but not break, like trees in the wind, Wood is plant and wind, watch with Wood Element sight and react) while Water element is more introspection and being fully passive (do not act at all, listen with Water element ear and do not act). They messed up the Wuxing completely lol

[lethal tree]

So he's unknown, could be from the same experiment, could have escaped a Talon lab, could have been exposed to some kind of toxic waste. Who knows.

[spare fox]

Idk, she might be an experiment or something but I think she's just a smart average cat

[dawn topaz]

Me when Anran burns JPC to a crisp and reveals it's a Talon drone in disguise

[dense garnet]

We'll just have to wait

[dense garnet]

Can't be, she's allergic to cats

[lethal tree]

She operates a jetpack. That's not average.

[dense garnet]

So it must be a real cat

[dawn topaz]

what if Talon skinned a cat to use it's fur for JPC?

[spare fox]

she operates a jetpack in a cat-appropriate way though

[dense garnet]

I do think it's one of Doctor Chao's experiments

[civic lynx]

Mirrorwatch JPC:

[dawn topaz]

Maybe they asked Domina to get the fur for them

She seems to love to skin cute animals for fun

[dense garnet]

People just kinda forget that Doctor Chao exists as a villain

[grand wedge]

SHE IS SO EVIL THAT WOMAN

sorry caps, but yeah, Dr Chao is.. really corporate evil incarnate

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear atm how smart Fika is. Brigitte atleast thinks Fika is a smartie stray cat (as in, regular cat that is kinda smart), but nothing like Winston. Devs said they didn't want to do a space hypergenius animal like Hammond / Winston.

So Fika might just be an animal intelligence (akin to a chimpanzee) but as a cat, or Fika might be smarter akin to a human adult but not hypergenius like Winston, it's unclear.

Normal cats can't fully understand human speech, but they can use talk buttons to express emotions, on par with a 2 year old human child. Fika i hope doesn't end up being just a slightly smarter cat, I hope Fika is atleast Chimpamzee adult intelligence or preferably human adult intelligence.

[dense garnet]

I think that Fika is as smart as an adult human. My theory is that Doctor Chao decided that maybe she shouldn't be giving animals that kind of superhuman intelligence seeing what happened to the Lunar Colony. And I'm sure she's still bitter about Winton getting his freedom, since he had to basically go to court to prove his sentience once he landed on Earth

So JPC is one of the newer Chao experiments that escaped, and Chao learned her lesson from before and didn't give Fika smarter intelligence or the ability to speak

So that Fika can't prove her own sentience like Winton did

That's just my theory

[shrewd pivot]

It's speculation but a fun hypothesis!

[spare fox]

it's possible, I just feel like they're going on the "lighter" side with JPC

backstory and story-wise

[dense garnet]

Everything about Fika is pure speculation that it lowkey grinds my gears when someone says "that's just speculation tho"

Like what else am I able to talk about with Fika

[shrewd pivot]

It would be good to explore the kinds of animals Lucheng was sending to the moon imo. It WOULD make semse that Lucheng bred specific breeds of animals, like maybe Winston isn't just some random gorilla. Maybe Fika too then, isn't just some random cat.

[spare fox]

true, and I'm just speculating that she's an above-average intelligence cat but not an experiment or anything

[dense garnet]

Keep in mind that she also experimented on Hammond, a hampster

So she definitely has multiple species

[shrewd pivot]

No i agree haha, I love theorizing and speculating. I pull parts of lore from implications and inference myself, not pure explicit canon.

It's that many people here are "explicit canon" followers (i respect that outlook), so i am helping you from getting @ by "explicit canon" truthers saying it's speculation,

It's fun speculation imo! I hope JPC isn't shallow writing, bc both Winston and Wreckingball were implemented in rather compelling ways imo.

[dense garnet]

Basically every time I'm talking about Fika and Doctor Six is in the chat

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah
Tbf i understand the "explicit canon" outlook, bc it can be confusing for new fans to learn about lore online. Explicit canon helps make it easy to explain and learn.

I personally think only looking at explicit canon misses some of the best aspects of overwatch's worldbuilding (it's foreshadowing, contexts, pulp fiction references, etc), but I totally get why someone would be a "explicit canon only" outlook, I respect it as a different way to enjoy the canon.

[shrewd pivot]

Now, if Overwatch was super goated, they would pull a Wuxia genre trope of "cultivation genre" break points.

In Wuxia, it's possible for animals and even inanimate objects to ascend in sapience to human like minds, and even further into godly powers by cultivating thier souls under Wuxing philosophies.

Ie, an animal could start out with regular animal mind, do Wuxing techniques, cultivate into a breaking point, pass that breaking point after completing a trial, granting them human like sapience. They could do this again, and cultivate into godlike powers, etc etc. (DBZ surpassing power levels are inspired by this trope)

Same with inanimate objects, as it is believed that an object with enough time can gain a soul, which then can begin cultivating.

(Cultivation can be done through meditation, which explains how a non moving thing can cultivate)

I doubt overwatch is doing this but MAN would it be a very fun "fantasy trope with a scifi twist" with cultivation break points bc usually it involves ascending planes of existence, which could be akin to Winston and Hammond going from the moon to earth after facing a life threatening trial.

Also, Wuxia is like... spaghetti westerns brutal where people kill on sight bc raw power flexing (Zenyatta is the same deal lmafo 'what makes you think i am a pacifist?' Is meta hilarious bc he is a kickass Taoist monk trope not a pacifist holy monk trope), mixed with the chivalry of Knights honor bound to do things for family lines. It's very chaotic, most Wuxia is not afraid to throw hands at kids lmafo, Guo Jing from "Legend of the Condor Heroes" (which Wuyang is inspired by) had hands thrown at him as a child 😭 iirc they used ragdolls in some scenes lmafo

[shrewd pivot]

A chart doesn't quite explain Wuxing philosophy exactly but here it is if anyone is curious

Also the cardinal auspicious beasts of China are referenced in Wuyang and Anran weapons.
Wuyang is the Black Turtle-Snake(Xuanwu staff) of the North (water element direction)

And Anran is the Vermillion Bird(Zhuque fans) of the South (fire element direction)

"Dark blue" is a translation error for Water element btw, Water is black color but the word can be translated as dark blue iirc.

Blue/green color is the same word in Chinese(as well as many languages), and used for Wood.

The cardinal auspicious beasts have influenced various cultures outside China too (like Japan) so for overwatch lore we have:

Hashimoto clan White tiger (White Metal)

Shimada clan Azure dragon (Green-blue Wood)

Wuyang black turtle-snake (Black water)

and Anran Vermillion Bird (Red fire)

All we need is a golden dragon (Yellow Earth) on the roster lol.

[glad fox]

I hope fika is human intelligence or similar since putting jetpack on a regular cat and have her go in a battlefield doesn't seem humane

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah and Winston (atleast written in character) with his past and POV wouldn't approve of overwatch endangering Mitzi/Murphy animals on the battlefield imo

It's unclear what Brigitte sees Fika as tho. I hope Brigitte isn't canonically placing what she thinks is a kinda smartish Mitzi on the battlefield lmafo, animal endangerment to pursue a dream is Moira's thing.

[spare fox]

I'm pretty sure Fika/JPC has plot armor and everyone should know it

nothing is going to happen to her, ever

[shrewd pivot]

Inb4 Fika ends up being a spy in a goofy silly "cats are evil masterminds" / airbud camp moment /j

[weak oak]

Is Sigma still the strongest character in lore or was he replaced

[glad fox]

Theoretically he is but he cannot completely control his powers I think

[shrewd pivot]

In theory Sigma has the biggesr potential to do the most damage out of the roster imo, but he is not all there mentally which keeps his powers relatively inert.

Illari's explosion during her solar threading ceremony for sure was devastating though.

[dawn topaz]

Le Blizzard isn't gonna show animal cruelty in their game?

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, only in texts (Thoughtless Gods story story)

[shrewd pivot]

Here is a pic (not meant as mean! /genuine, Just letting you know)
Friend checked the mech in current game and it looks like this

In the past the mech on the map looked like this:

It seems to be the same mech design

[spare fox]

I do wonder if they might give it an upgrade (redesign) to go along with the bombing the gwishin storyline

S4 hero looks just like that but with shoulder "pads" and extra things on its ankles

and the two "antennae" positions have changed a bit and have the slight bend at the ends rather than being straight up

[weak oak]

Catching up on the lore, Vendetta slammed Doomfist? That's crazy.

[spare fox]

Alec just confirmed no Atlantic Arcology map this year 😭

[edgy meadow]

was it ever confirmed to begin with?

[weak oak]

Why did Juno leave for earth?

[twilit patrol]

To save her family

And also so she can have a good life on Earth

[weak oak]

What was putting her family at risk? I assume they're still on Mars

[edgy meadow]

her family is still on mars ya

[twilit patrol]

They're still on Mars yeah

But the colonny isn't safe anymore

[edgy meadow]

i believe its lack of resources + weather conditions on mars getting more intense

[twilit patrol]

Yeah

[crisp canyon]

I can’t send it but earlier ab dmon being associated with an animal, chu said it would be a bear. Dmon is going to be our bear character

[spare fox]

yes! I wanted to add this but the convo moved on

Chu also said she was like the "team mom" of the meka team

mama bear

[weak oak]

Alr ty, I'm wanting to main Juno

[twilit patrol]

I love Juno sm

[crisp canyon]

Man I was kinda hoping for DMON to be a bit more aggressive in personality but that works 2

[crisp canyon]

In the lore beast (her mech) had to be rebuilt it could still look different and explain why it’s not the same

[limpid sun]

i want the lore from the original overwatch animated shorts 😔

[crisp canyon]

Like?

[dense garnet]

D.mon is referenced in Dva's academy skin

[brittle sky]

I mean in general we see the mechs have to be rebuilt constantly and get frequent upgrades. They don't have to be perfect matches. though yeah ultra, my own double checking seems to back that it wasn't updated, just had small details people were matching up. The concept art definitely makes it seem like they'll be upgrading it (and I mean of course they will - concept art of a lore character does not have the same design priorities of a playable once) or otherwise altering Beast.

[brittle sky]

We have a 32 year old styled as having mom appeal. Now get ready for a 24 year old styled to be mom appeal.

[civic lynx]

The most they ever said was “coming post s19” at spotlight last year

Same with Tokyo which is now confirmed for S3

[brittle sky]

oh, where's he answering questions?

[civic lynx]

The Iceland map they showed this year is completely new and probably replacing Atlantic arcology’s release period

[civic lynx]

I think he’s on the omnic post YouTube stream currently

[edgy meadow]

about what i expected

[civic lynx]

https://www.youtube.com/live/_ujODivl3Xg?si=HJnTOr6oV_kvIQls

[edgy meadow]

considering the japan map was in both spotlights

but not the atlantic one

kinda figured theyre probably pushing the atlantic mapp for next year

they were probably still figuring out the narrative for the next few years

[brittle sky]

vendetta uses that submarine on the new stadium map to sink the arcology, meaning they never have to release that map.

[civic lynx]

Yeah they were hiring late last year for a person to direct and plan the next decade of OW lore

[edgy meadow]

thats funny

[civic lynx]

So they probably don’t have concrete ideas for new maps and how they’ll tie into lore just yet

So delayed Atlantic arcology while they redo and add things to make the map more important

[edgy meadow]

they most likely do have an idea for the s3 map we have in the schedule

but not for the others

[brittle sky]

I mean, I think that's getting the order of events wrong

[civic lynx]

Yeah Tokyo seems like it’ll tie into the hashimoto hero’s story

[brittle sky]

Writers arent' dictating directly what material gets worked on.

[civic lynx]

And mizuki as well

If the vishkar story isn’t gonna be prioritised this year Atlantic arcology probably isn’t top priority either

[edgy meadow]

naturally, but we also evidently have a replacement map which means that the only change was the location/narrative of the map, which is something that would probably involve the writing

[brittle sky]

Execs approve of certain ideas and concepts, writers are left to make it make sense to the story. I'm sure there's coordination, especially with the new format, to make everything fit a larger plan, but this isn't the whole game is working to bring the writers' idea of the plot to life.

[edgy meadow]

if it was just removing a map from the release schedule with no replacement thats another story

[brittle sky]

I mean we don't know if it's a replacement in that the physical structures or terrain would be the same.

[edgy meadow]

by replacement i mean in terms of 'instead of x map this year we are releasing y map'

[civic lynx]

Based on the concepts we have for both idk if there’s anything that could be the same

[brittle sky]

I think the map pipeline was bumped back anyways, and then arcology wasn't a good fit and/or wasn't going to be ready.

[civic lynx]

Not that related but I do like how they leave the Iceland map’s concept somewhat vague to build hype and interest in what it’ll bring to the story

[brittle sky]

But then I'm skeptical they'd delay arcology for purely lore reasons, as they seem happy to stretch the talon centric story to have things like, multiple hashimoto characters and a hashimoto map.

[edgy meadow]

its speculative, but i think the archology was probably meant to be a significant place for characters/plot that has been retroactively pushed back

[brittle sky]

I mean, we notably have not seen a bit of in game material despite it being teased like... 2 years in a row then nothing this year?

[edgy meadow]

since we know AI research is conducted in the archology it might have something to do with either the conspiracy story or null sector

[brittle sky]

(hilarious parallel to how sea cities make for very pretty concept art but are just terrible when being made irl)

[civic lynx]

Arcology has been teased since like… 2023 or 2024 I think?

They added a banner for it to numbani before aatlis was even announced

[edgy meadow]

game development is weird

[shrewd pivot]

Aw dang... I was looking forward to seeing the omnic living quarters potentially shown in Atlantic arcology map, oh well

[brittle sky]

presume it's a coat closet with a charging port for the wrong country, and a slot machine that only deals in crypto installed in one wall.

[civic lynx]

Excuse the god awful quality

[shrewd pivot]

LMAOOO
Nah, in the heroes ascendant shory, Lifeweaver said the living quarters were designed without it being human-focused architecture or something like that, so the living quarters would have the omnic essentials

[edgy meadow]

might have just been an idea to have this cool international lab island that later on transformed into something much more significant internally

hence the significant pushback

since this might have been around the time where they started to think of the yearly narrative plans

and various early drafts

[brittle sky]

If only they'd do something with their current cool international lab other than just make it the bad place for bad scientists doing bad things and get robbed sometimes...

[edgy meadow]

maybe they will, if they plan to do more story-themed map reworks

even tho oasis is too popular to be changed drastically

[spare fox]

Alec DID say that they have ideas for a "fresh coat of paint" even on 'popular maps'

it's not always going to be a rework for unpopular maps

[edgy meadow]

makes sense

probably like they did with rialto

[civic lynx]

Kings row count your days

[shrewd pivot]

I hope the Antarctic Peninsula map rework has details that suggests nullsector is there or something

[civic lynx]

I think even if it’s not next season it will eventually be redesigned or have things added to have null sector presence noticeable (maybe when they return to lore in a bigger way if not done next season)

[edgy meadow]

oh ye dawg i forgot about the fucking antarctic peninsula

when they took it out of the pool they said it was gonna be released in season 22

which is now season 2 aka next season

[brittle sky]

Make it super haunted by the cloud of omnic minds.

[civic lynx]

We got a new bit of gameplay info for s2’s hero

Can they just confirm her identity already 💔

[spare fox]

idk, I'm torn between Frankie and a Helix hero - the one redacted on the Deadlock map

in fact, I'm leaning towards helix hero because of the beret and posture, she doesn't look like a rebel hacker

she looks like straight-laced trained professional

[shrewd pivot]

So it seems like there will be a map rework OR a new map every season based on what was said, that's nice

I'm hype for the next hero video, next up is Domina right?

[civic lynx]

I think so

[spare fox]

tbh I'm not sure where people are getting what hero is highlighted in which week?

someone enlighten me?

[edgy meadow]

if you go to the events tab in game and press on your chosen faction

youll see on the top right the global progress

theres a button you can select there to see the season progress

each week has a name

and each name corresponds to a short story that gets released that week

[civic lynx]

I think it’s in the conquest menu it shows the title of each week and they clearly link to each of the new 5

[edgy meadow]

aka the 'theme of the week

so next week is domina, week after that is mizuki, and the final short story of s1 is anran

[civic lynx]

I assume every season will now have an event that gives us short stories to move lore forward (as well as an origin story/comic for the new hero)

[edgy meadow]

yes

that is the big plan

general story progresses every season, new short story each week

[shrewd pivot]

Not sure where to discuss this, but Microsoft CEO just changed to someone who is/was President of Microsoft's CoreAI(integrates genai into systems, creates genai agents, etc)...

As you know, Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard so... yeah i hope Overwatch game/development can maintain itself as free from genai content as possible going forward.

[plucky patio]

Illari's lore is cool

Better than kiriko's

[brittle sky]

I mean being in charge of the lie department doe snot mean you actually like the lie department.

[civic lynx]

I love how the person immediately said they don’t want ai slop to be in their games

Meanwhile activision has been putting it in cod for the past few years

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's really bad

[edgy meadow]

team 4 is unionized and aggressively against ai so i doubt it

[edgy meadow]

wait fr?

[civic lynx]

OW may remain free for the near future but I wouldn’t be shocked if Microsoft/activision immediately move to try and force it

[edgy meadow]

hilarious

[shrewd pivot]

Even then, overwatch had its instances of genai use (weekly recall) and esports sprays (Wuyang, Juno & Venture) so that's why I am hoping it doesn't get forced, it would deteriorate the lore writing and art design.

[edgy meadow]

thats surprisingly in touch for a multibillion company ceo

[spare fox]

guys this isn't lore

[civic lynx]

This is probably just a good PR script

Microsoft is giving Xbox an ultimatum: become profitable or we fire you all and leave the gaming market entirely

They’re gonna say whatever they have to do say in order to try and get a profit

[edgy meadow]

probably, but we've seen these people say out of touch things very openly before

[shrewd pivot]

True and my apologies. I felt it will impact how overwatch as a game/story art/writing lore is created going forward, so idk what channel to discuss the topic

[spare fox]

can you guys take this discussion elsewhere - this channel is for lore discussion only

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/motya-baikal-seal-seal-nerpa-hello-there-gif-7052781861714451435

[brittle sky]

So okay, someone sell me on the frankie line for s2 hero. Is it just:

• Deadlock gang is playing a role next season, and she's in it
• Frankie's name was included on some grafitti in the Powder Mine Map
• Frankie is a hacker, and hacker = the little drone guy?

Those don't feel all that compelling. What am I missing? Or is it just we've latched onto a defined name.

[shrewd pivot]

Frankie was a hacker in Ashe and Cassidy's long story

[edgy meadow]

frankie's name has been floating around for a time

[shrewd pivot]

I don't really think it will be Frankie imo, I think people are guessing drone = hacker bc of the map/deadlock being involved.

[brittle sky]

I listed that as one of the points.

[edgy meadow]

given emre and cat, they might be on a streak of adding characters that already exist in the universe to establish more connections

thats about it

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, I meant that as agreeing with you, pardon.

[edgy meadow]

beyond speculation, the only thing we know for certain about the next character is that she is female

[spare fox]

my guess is that S2 hero will be that Helix commander that's transferring to Grand Mesa, the one redacted on the communication stolen from Helix

[shrewd pivot]

In the recent interview it was said they've been looking at lore for heroes, like with Emre. So Frankie isn't exactly out of possibilities ig

[civic lynx]

I think Frankie is possible but imo based on the silhouette they look more like a military/helix agent (especially the hat)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah more military style

[brittle sky]

cat is not that. Cat is a meme in the minds of the community. Fika the cat isn't even the cat they referened last time they nodded at the meme

[shrewd pivot]

That's a very good guess imo

[spare fox]

also, I'm wondering if the "braid" is actually something bundled that they've slung over their shoulder

[edgy meadow]

the details are secondary to the principle of the point im making

[brittle sky]

That's the one I'm prone to believe. that tablet is way more 'hey look a hint' than the graffiti, and the rest of what Frankie has going on is just being a lore character.

[edgy meadow]

but yes you aint wrong

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah (recent interview confirmed she/her and dps), I think she has like... two braid shapes? One looks mechanical, another looks like hair

[civic lynx]

I think it is just a braid

Idk what reason she has for it to be literally scraping the floor but sure

[brittle sky]

They got someone with Jinx hair, so they needed to get a VA with a matching name.

[wise grotto]

A member of helix that isn’t “left for ow pharah” would be nice

[spare fox]

it really looks like she's holding something slung over her left shoulder too

[brittle sky]

disappointed it's not a dumpy rent a cop.

[spare fox]

Paul Blart for S2

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah lol, but i suppose it does create a unique silhouette.

[civic lynx]

I see it as this typa thing

[brittle sky]

she's doing the ohoho gesture with her hand

[civic lynx]

Her braids just run down from the back of her head

[shrewd pivot]

I can see the shape as something like this maybe?

Like she's holding something

[civic lynx]

I think her hair is behind her shoulder rather than being held onto (im terrible at drawing)

Her arm looks like she’s pulling up something on her wrist to control the drones

[brittle sky]

It's a snake wound around her hair braid

[shrewd pivot]

I could also see it as something like this maybe?

With two weapons, one with a strap over her shoulder, one is her gun

[civic lynx]

They did mention she has some sort of skill shot so if she does have an alternate weapon it may be linked to that

[brittle sky]

a robot snake

[shrewd pivot]

Strap over the shoulder like this or something, idk what the green part would be

Put she def has two braid shapes, and some kind of tech on her shoulder

[shrewd pivot]

That would be fun, her hair would work well with rattle snakes motif

[brittle sky]

a robot snake with an uploaded human consciousness...

[shrewd pivot]

Call that SSSSSSSSOMA....

[brittle sky]

...piloting her own mummified corpse that she weekends at burnies so she can keep her job

[shrewd pivot]

The snake motif isn't a bad guess imo, bc her hair would fit a snake motif + grand Mesa rattlesnakes

There's a lot of Snake mythology they could pull from for a character like that that too

Tho, her drone looks like a flying fish, so we shall see

[civic lynx]

I really wanna know what’s goin on with this person’s arm like what is that diamond shaped thing

[brittle sky]

a bunch of little shields or nanites? Could swing either Null Sector or Vishkar with lots of little shapelets (or I guess the collective - though I will cause problems if collective gets both an associated hero and a full hero before oasis)

[civic lynx]

The incredibly thin waist/stomach makes me think they’re a robot/omnic

So they could be null sector

[shrewd pivot]

My guess is some kind of 'sniper' or utility, the hexagons are tech. Red part is maybe a cable

Unsure if the headshape is a hat or helmet, probably has a collared shirt or armor

[left dirge]

Gus

[civic lynx]

I agree they’re a sniper

[left dirge]

guys

I have a question

how did vendetta win against doom?

[brittle sky]

with a sword

[left dirge]

we’re forgetting that doom 1v3d ow heroes

[past copper]

Imagine she's not just a support, but a Junker support who made her own drone out of scrap

[brittle sky]

yeah bt those guys didn't have a sword (one of them literally had a sword).

[left dirge]

plot armor at its finest

[shrewd pivot]

Plot armor

But yeah the point was that Doomfist underestimates interpersonal connections,Vendetta is the fallout of Doomfist underestimating Antonio/Vialli interpersonal connections to Vendetta imo

I don't mind Vendetta winning, i just wish it was written better

[civic lynx]

Doom may have gotten rusty after not fighting for a while or he let vendetta win intentionally for some reason

[brittle sky]

I mean why junker? Amoing other things, that tabbard thing would be way more ripped.

[civic lynx]

Vendetta was fighting any chance she got in order to prepare herself to be able to defeat doom

[brittle sky]

He didn't realize he was in an anime where flashing back to your personal tragedy gives you the power to win fights.

[past copper]

Because I'm getting Jinx vibes from that silhouette

[brittle sky]

are we talking about the one with braids, or the most recently shown one?

[past copper]

And let's be honest, if Jinx was in Overwatch, she'd pass as a Junkrr

[left dirge]

holy fuck I haven’t gotten into ow lore in so long

[past copper]

One with the drone silhouette

[shrewd pivot]

Junkrat is basically a male Jinx tho tbf (they both have chaotic archetypes)

I would more readily believe the drone hero is Helix than Junker

[past copper]

Junkers make a lot of their own stuff tho and it would not be impossible to imagine one has the knowhow to make a drone

[remote sluice]

whats ashe relationship towards bob?

[shrewd pivot]

It's more so the military hat that puts me off of Junker, also the drone is very elegant, while junker tech usually is scrappy and geometric

[past copper]

Father and daughter

[left dirge]

Huh

[spare fox]

he was her family's butler but over time he came to be her best and only friend

basically family to her

[shrewd pivot]

BOB as a butler raised ashe since she was a teen iirc. BOB acted as a guardian to Ashe. Platonic only, found family.

[past copper]

I like mine better

[remote sluice]

thank you guys

[past copper]

He was more of a parent to her than her actual parents

[remote sluice]

i actually need to watch some video on lore since i started playing few days ago but im a bit lost

[left dirge]

bobs name is big omnic butler

so he’s a butler

[shrewd pivot]

I think it's fair to say guardian and child, because BOB was a butler not a "step Dad" per se. But BOB was more a real parent than Ashe's parents were for sure. Butler that raised a child kind of dynamic, platonic found family

[remote sluice]

were ashes parents bad?

[spare fox]

yeah but not entirely 1:1 parental figure, he looked out for her growing up but I wouldn't say he's a parental figure

their relationship is def unique

[shrewd pivot]

Very. Asge's parents were very emotionally neglectful, They tried to use Ashe as a pawn for corporate bs. Ashe's bio explains her lore of wanting to ruin the reputation of her parents company by stealing important things from them.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/ashe/

[spare fox]

partner in crime and best friend

[crisp canyon]

Just neglectful I think in the lore

[remote sluice]

i keep seeing people ship reaper and solider as well, arent they rivals? i read somewhere reaper has a wife and a child i think, why do ppl ship them?

[remote sluice]

thank you alot!

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, it's not like "that's my dad" but very much "BOB raised me" so it's guardian and child.

[left dirge]

I’m trying to get into the lore, what do you guys recommend for me to watch?

[crisp canyon]

YouTube probably

[shrewd pivot]

There's also a long novel about Ashe and Cassidy that goes more indepth on Ashe's story

[wet lotus]

he does but like hes kinda MIA and his wife moved on since she still thinks hes dead

[left dirge]

Ye but what videos?

[brittle sky]

I mean 'rivals that also want to smooch' is kind of a thing people like. See that hockey show.

[crisp canyon]

Just look up Overwatch lore there’s no set point you have to start

[civic lynx]

I think it just popular bc it’s enemies to lovers as well as 2 older attractive men

[left dirge]

Bc soldier is into men

[crisp canyon]

It existed before soldier was confirmed gay

[left dirge]

But he has sm1 named Vincent

[crisp canyon]

Solider wasn’t officially gay until 2017

[remote sluice]

solider is gay?

[crisp canyon]

Very

[left dirge]

Yes

[remote sluice]

tysm:)

[left dirge]

Even tracer is

[remote sluice]

tbh i wouldnt know, nothing about him gives off such vibe tbh, skins, nothing

[crisp canyon]

Tracer, Soldier, Pharah, Venture, Baptiste, and weaver are all queer officially

[left dirge]

Pharah?

[remote sluice]

ohhh

[crisp canyon]

Pharah is a lesbian

[left dirge]

Huh

Oh well

It’s a game anyways

[civic lynx]

Yes 😭

[civic lynx]

I think that’s kinda meant to be the point

[left dirge]

Rlly?

[civic lynx]

Any aspect of his personal life has been lost over the years as he’s become a vigilante

[wet lotus]

tracer - lesbian
pharah - lesbian
soldier - gay
venture - nonbinary
baptiste - bisexual
lifeweaver - pansexual

[remote sluice]

yeah o just assumed tho cuz i got this like skin on him where he looks rlly manly, got eyepatch and all and i thought like “oh he def got the ladies on him”

[left dirge]

Me too

I was surprised

[crisp canyon]

Venture and weaver are the only 2 confirmed queer on release

[remote sluice]

REAL

[shrewd pivot]

It seems to be platonic in canon as far as I can tell.

Fandom ships them probably bc in canon they were friends who have a tragic interaction in lore, both entered the super soldier genetic altering program and were the lucky few who survived, Morrison(Soldier76) was the golden child leader of overwatch while Reyes(Reaper) felt shafted by being in charge of Blackwatch it seems, they seemed to argue a good bit in lore, and ultimately both went down and became vigilantes after the Swiss HQ blew up and presumed Morrison and Reyes dead. Soldier76 was "chasing ghosts" etc etc. Also Soldier76 is confirmed to be a gay man, and has recently moved on from Vincent.

Reaper canonically had a wife (and kid i think?) Who se seems to miss.

But yeah, Soldier76 x Reaper is not canon by any means, it's fandom au.

[civic lynx]

He doesn’t really want to acknowledge or discuss his life unless it’s information that would benefit his mission

[left dirge]

ikr

So guys

I have a question

[crisp canyon]

Hopefully they do more for pride this year cause it’s really been lacking since the first year

[spare fox]

Jack and Gabe were very VERY tight friends, nothing sexual or romantic but they did love each other like bros

[left dirge]

What were the first events in chronological order

[remote sluice]

ohh i see, so friends to rivals basically who peopel decide to ship, tho a bit sad since reaper had a familu

[crisp canyon]

Idk if I can send a link, watch inkslasher video ab the story of Overwatch

[civic lynx]

I can feel mizuki x wuyang deep in my bones

[crisp canyon]

You’ll get all you want

[left dirge]

Ty

[remote sluice]

is there any roles on skins too? or thats nothing, cuz ik some games got skin lore too and im a bit confused by fallen angel (a VERY beautiful skin but doesnt fit her one bit.)

[brittle sky]

or lovers to enemies.

[civic lynx]

Skins that have a description are related to lore (or non canon stories with the old Halloween terror skins)

[shrewd pivot]

Reaper is shown in comics... sadly?(as sad as a mask can look) watching his wife and kid alongside another man.

It is Canon Reaper had a wife and seemingly misses her.

No confirmation on if Reaper is straight or bi tho, so eh.

The fandom does what a fandom does, yeah.

[crisp canyon]

I wouldn’t mind either being gay, but I saw a really cute ship of wuyang Illari called sundrop

[remote sluice]

aw man thats kinda sad though, i didnt know before that he had a family and i just assumed hes a loner, really enjoyed his playstylr and all

[spare fox]

no no, Wuyang and Juno is PEAK
/not trying to start a fight, all ships are good ships

[brittle sky]

I mean, I honestly can't tell what's the appeal of the various ow2 20something interships over each other.

like, none have particularly distinct dynamics or parallels

[spare fox]

it's all just fun, really

[crisp canyon]

The people yearn for a canon couple in lore