lore-discussion

[crisp canyon]

Okay but I’ve also met aboriginal ppl and studied their rights movements and haven’t heard this

[shrewd pivot]

Okay, then my source was incorrect then. Or maybe it was a personal preference? Pardon! Thank you for explaining though, no malice intended

[sand veldt]

I hate mei so fucking much

[peak escarp]

rude

[grave saddle]

But mei lore 😔

[crisp canyon]

It’s literally no different than Native American, no one is gonna say it’s a slur, it’s a broad term like African/Asian sure ppl will more want to make it known their tribal/ethnic affiliation or ties because they want it to be known but I wouldn’t say it’s a touchy subject

[grave saddle]

Did we ever find out any more details about the anomaly at eco point Antarctica?

[peak escarp]

there's a theory that it might be connected to Ramattra's omnium

[grave saddle]

Ooh yeah that would make sense. Does the timeline work out?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, that makes sense!
I do know aboriginal is definitely a slur in Canada tho, that's a no go.

I also personally don't call indigenous groups in Americas Native American nor Indians by default,

I probably am more strict with my wording bc of my communication issues, pardon. 😅 Thank you for the information!

[peak escarp]

since the omnium he built his drones in is located in Antarctica and he started building his army right around the time the superstorm hit the Ecopoint

[peak escarp]

I've lived in Canada my entire life and never heard of aboriginal as being a slur

[shrewd pivot]

It was used in old days to classify groups, not a common word today

[peak escarp]

that doesn't mean it's a slur today

[grave saddle]

Ahhh okay. God I hope it doesn’t take too long to return to ram

[peak escarp]

it's less common, but I've heard it used

most common term is First Nations

[grave saddle]

Mei finding out Ram is the direct reason her friends died

[median orchid]

Mei in lore is a precious cinnamon bun but in game she is the spawn of Satan himself reincarnated into the mortal realm

[brittle sky]

more indirect reason

[crisp canyon]

I’m Native American myself and I do know there is more common consensus to refer to native ppl globally as indigenous but really it’s just another broad term, I stick with Amerindian personally or Native American

[grave saddle]

Mei rogue arc needed fr

[median orchid]

Mei woke up and chose VIOLENCE

The Cryo gun gets turned into like a Flame Thrower

Talon Mei

[grave saddle]

Have her be the one to knock that faceplate off of Ram like in PVE

Ice shard critical hit

[median orchid]

Like half of the cast has gone trough so much horrible shit. They all need a hug or something

[grave saddle]

Sigma 😔

[median orchid]

Gramps needs a hug

[grave saddle]

Get him an ice cream

[peak escarp]

everyone except Brigitte

[grave saddle]

Get him to winton. Can sort out anything

[median orchid]

Yeah Brigitte has just ... Existed I guess?

And is the Second spawn of satan

[peak escarp]

oh no, her godfather was forced to retire, such a tragedy

[crisp canyon]

Wuyang just wasn’t good enough for fire college

[median orchid]

Oh.

[peak escarp]

Wuyang too

[median orchid]

I actually should look at Brig lore

[sharp walrus]

Anyone who reads the comics?

[crisp canyon]

Brig lore is literally just I wanna be Reinhardt

[median orchid]

But Swedish

[wise grotto]

The horrible part or brigs life and traumatic parts are jsut NOW instead of backstory

[median orchid]

Atleast she got to make the Jetpack cat idea she was dreaming of for a long time

[crisp canyon]

Brig, wuyang, ahran, venture all have no tragedy to their backstory

[shrewd pivot]

Mmm... I play it safe bc the last thing I want to do is use a term that translates as a slur between English regions (UK vs USA for example) let alone between languages (English vs Greek for example). 😅 I miss social cues so I personally play it safer than most, I hope that makes sense.

Thank you for informing me @crisp canyon tho, I will keep this in mind for the terms about the people in Australia. First one ending in e is definitely a no, second one is academic and more neutral then.

[median orchid]

They do be chillin

[peak escarp]

Anran's tragedy is being the eldest child in an Asian household

that will give you trauma for sure

[median orchid]

But like people like Sigma, Illari, Reinhardt, Genji (Maybe Tracer?) Sure have gone trough some crazy shit

[grave saddle]

Wayfinders guild gotttaaa be the ones to kickstart rams lore up again

Accidentally stumble upon the omnics in an artefact finding mission or something

[median orchid]

BREAKING NEWS: Ramattra found dead and fossilized

[grave saddle]

lmao

[crisp canyon]

Mei genji Illari and Winston competing for saddest backstory I think

[median orchid]

Yeah Mei too

Tough Illari straight out nuked her entire community / family

The guilt of that 💀

[grave saddle]

I’m just imaging a sick cinematic / comic visual with some wayfinders in the snow digging in and a null sector purple glow comes out

Give them something tied to the main lore

[crisp canyon]

I would love a cinematic of Ana narrating a letter to Pharah ab where she’s been since she was presumed dead I feel like that’s perfect material for that and we never actually got any media for their reunion not even voicelines in game

[median orchid]

They did that in one of the comics right?

But yeah

A cinematic would be lit

[crisp canyon]

I also just think it’s weird Ana and pharah barely interact when you have them together, we are lacking on that content in general

[spare fox]

they have a bunch of in-game interactions

not so much setup lines

[crisp canyon]

Maybe I just don’t see it much then

[shrewd pivot]

On the comment of Asian families made, I still can't believe they really wrote the Tiger mom stereotype for Aran and Wuyang... 😭 idk what is so hopeful about two Wuxia based heroes (stories celebrating traditional culture Wuxing etc) disliking traditional culture (Anran not liking fan dancer routine) and having scuffed portrayals of Wuxing (it's not wuxing at all, just houses with element tech) all with toxic conditional love from thier community

[spare fox]

why do you need to find something to be offended by about everything? It's not that deep, just chill

[median orchid]

Here we go again ...

[crisp canyon]

If we have two brothers, a brother sister, the next family dynamic we get is sister sister right?

[spare fox]

idk if they're really working that way

we don't have a mother-son either

or father-son

[crisp canyon]

Make them twins and you can alternate between them

[median orchid]

Make them Conjoined twins to confuse everyone

[spare fox]

BUT there are sisters iirc in the Ashe sshort story

idr if they were sisters but I think they were

[crisp canyon]

They could also just introduce a sister to an existing character 2

[shrewd pivot]

It's... media analysis and critique.

I want an "optumistic future pulp fiction" story for Wuyang and Anran is all lol.

[shrewd pivot]

Sojourn has a twin sister, not roster hero tho

[median orchid]

... Aaaaaand it begins once more

[shrewd pivot]

Dramatic

(Edit: does nothing to de-escalate)

[median orchid]

Very.

Let a man entertain himself

[shrewd pivot]

Passive aggressive.

(Edit: no need for this, just say what you actually mean please.)

[median orchid]

Lame?

Nevermind

[grave saddle]

One of Zarya’s sisters maybe

[spare fox]

let the writers write. They seemed to resonate with the Anran-Wuyang story. You picking apart every little thing that doesn't perfectly check your boxes to your liking isn't really critique, it's annoying to see constantly and there's no discussion about it, it's either the way you think it should be or not

[spare fox]

I was thinking, maybe Bonnie? I know it's not a sister but a niece

[median orchid]

Expand the Lindholm family?

Nah that would be too many Swedes

[spare fox]

again, I don't think they're that concerned with "too many" of a particular nationality

it's not like they need to be evenly distributed. OW is the best of the best, and those people tend to rally around each other and have connections to one another

[grave saddle]

I’m not sure I know Bonnie as a character

[median orchid]

Three Swedish people is critical mass for Swedes in a allocated area. This is coming from a Finnish guy.

[spare fox]

lol

[spare fox]

Bonnie is Sojourn's niece, her twin sister's daughter

[grave saddle]

Ahhh okay

A dynamic I would love to see is an omnic with a human kid/s. A cool thing to explore

[median orchid]

Yeah Ive had some ideas. Very cute idea

[toxic flax]

they already have four people from japan and four americans

[dense nebula]

Any more Swedes and Sabaton will appear magically

[median orchid]

Yeah but the problem is ... They are Swedes Which would drive every Finnish player crazy

[spare fox]

3 Brits, 4 if you count Ireland as a British isle

[grave saddle]

Maybe even the museum kids. Say they were in foster and adopted by an omnic. If it works out, maybe even the trenchcoat omnic. Could be cinema

[pastel stirrup]

def tracer

[dense nebula]

If it’s a consolation, Emre’s “patron” is Finnish

[median orchid]

CIVIL WAR STARTED

[median orchid]

Yeah Chernoborg is finnish

We are defo getting Helsinki as a map (Where Chernobog is located)

[spare fox]

it's a geographic fact, not saying they're british nationality lol

[median orchid]

Maybe even a Finnish hero

[dense nebula]

Wait is Emre technically a sci fi Warlock?

[toxic flax]

is that the place moira mentioned emre disappeared in freyas second comic

[median orchid]

Not sure. Would need to check again but I didnt notice anything at first watch / read.

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. It's not just me lol, others have pointed out the writing issues. It's not my way or the highway at all here. /genuine

If you can explain what is actually hopeful about Wuyang's story set up, I am willing to hear it. /genuine

[median orchid]

[dense nebula]

What nationality is Freyja?

Norwegian or Danish?

[median orchid]

Danish

[dense nebula]

Do we have a Norwegian hero yet?

[median orchid]

Nope

We need a Norwegian, Icelandic and a Finnish hero to complete the northern squad

[grave saddle]

I don’t think you necessarily need Wuyang to be the focal point of developing on the concept. Could do so with someone who isn’t the equivalent of a Uni student who is more likely to be less appreciative early on, like a professor / academic of the uni

[dense nebula]

Which nations are part of Scandinavia?

[patent moth]

so many of them are explicitly the last of their kind itd almost be cliche if their situations werent so different

[median orchid]

Usually Norway, Denmark, Sweden ... Sometimes Finland

[dense nebula]

Kinda surprised Iceland isn’t part of that

[median orchid]

Im not sure if Iceland is

[patent moth]

bastion does not get enough lore for the fact that unlike most omnics, his kind is explicitly, almost certainly, extinct

[median orchid]

Maybe?

[dense nebula]

Endangered. Extinct would mean even he doesn’t exist

[median orchid]

Bastion is the "Last Bastion" and sole "Aware" / "Free Willed" Bastion unit

Whatever that means im not sure. I know nothing out of Bastion

[patent moth]

fair, im used to the biological equivilant of extinct including a singular member of the species meaning a biological extinction

[shrewd pivot]

"Functionally extinct" describes a species that cannot make more, so all awakened omnics are Functionally extinct. Bastion is critically endangered under a functionally extinct label ig?

[median orchid]

... Bastion ... Reproduction ...

DEAR GOD

[shrewd pivot]

I never said that. At all.

[median orchid]

I never saw it that way oh lord

Yeah ... Id say it fits the terminology of being Functionally extinct then

No more "Awake" Bastions can be made

Or ... We dont know the lore

[bitter relic]

How could vendetta beat doom this easy

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah no more awakened omnics can be made atm, they are a "finite generation"

[median orchid]

Or well. Thankfully Bastion cannot reproduce. Meaning that Bastion units will go extinct without human intervention.

[patent moth]

frankly i hope bastion gets interactions with characters like mei and illari, because their situations are similar to his but hes not allowed to talk to them because evil blizzard hates him

[shrewd pivot]

Poor writing, but the idea of Vendetta winning isn't bad by any means, just wish it was done differently. Doomfist underestimates interpersonal connections, and Vendetta is the fallout of Doomfist underestimating the interpersonal connections Antonio/Vialli held.

[median orchid]

Doom shouldve defo won by bodyslamming Vendetta WWE style when he first knocked her down. But yeah. Makes sense to move the story forward

Can't complain too much

[grave saddle]

I wish they had utilised max’s betrayal more to make vendettas win make more sense, rather than it just being implied he got her into the base. But I get they wanted to move it forward faster than that would allow them to

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

Plus it sets up Maximilien as scheming against Vendetta, that will probably have a payoff

[dense garnet]

So Fika was found around some rocket parts in Gibraltar and knocked over some blueprints for Brigitte to look at

She's 100% a sentient animal that just can't communicate because she lacks the ability to speak or use a translator

I've seen people say she's one of Dr. Chao's experiments

[peak escarp]

based on...?

cats are famous for knocking things over, I wouldn't take that as evidence of sentience

the devs said they wanted to do something different with Fika, something that wasn't an animal granted intelligence through a science experiment

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, tho I think it's fair to wonder if the blueprint being knocked down was intentional by Fika or not. Fika was more or less confirmed to not be a genetic experiment super genius like Hammond and Winston, whatever that actually means for her lore we will have to see.

[dense garnet]

https://x.com/i/status/2023815946528584128

[peak escarp]

that thread makes a lot of assumptions

there's no indication when Project: Star Companion happened, whether before or after the Horizon project

or if any of the subjects from that project survived, or if they were even on Earth

or if those animals were even given advanced intellignece at all - they may have just been specially trained but otherwise ordinary animals

literally the only thing we have about Project: Star Companion is the line in "Signs of Life" that mentions memorial portraits of the animals

I do think Fika is above average intelligence for a cat, probably through artificial means

but not a genetic experiment

[brittle sky]

What would be the way you think is likely?

[shrewd pivot]

Brain chip maybe?

Fika doesn't need a serum for hyper intelligence like Hammond got to still be defined as a Genetic experiment. Artificially breeding cats to have a ape-like intelligence still counts as a GMO imo?

[peak escarp]

ape-like intelligence is generous

[shrewd pivot]

Then more intelligence than a normal cat, is what i mean.

[peak escarp]

oh you mean regular apes

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

[peak escarp]

I'm so used to genetically enhanced apes that I forgot normal apes are pretty smart too

[shrewd pivot]

LOL yeah. Ig it's should have said like. Dolphin or something.

But yeah, a cat breed artificially selected to have much higher intelligence counts as a GMO.

[peak escarp]

Fika being an escapee from a selective breeding program could work

I may just be biased because I have two of my own, but cats are pretty smart to begin with

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe that's the difference between Winston + Hammond lore vs Fika lore?

Was Winston born genetically modified hyper intelligent, or did Winston get injected with a hyper intelligence serum like Hammond? Bc if Both Winston and Hammond recieved the hyper intelligence serum after birth, that could explain the difference in lore the writers are alluding to

[peak escarp]

I think that makes the most sense

and would require fewer specimens - if the specimens are enhanced in utero, you need to keep the mother as well

(unless you're doing creepy birthing tubes)

[shrewd pivot]

Tbh with Moira's work (creepy genetics science), it wouldn't suprise me if artificial baby gestation pods ended up as canon in overwatch lol.

[cyan crow]

"Dr.De Kuiper is volatile, a weapon to be controlled.
We will utilize his power as needed, but we will not
risk letting him walk free."

[shrewd pivot]

Hm. Maybe Lucheng was breeding GMO smart animals to then inject the serum into? It would make sense to have a specific line of animals, rather than any random gorilla.
Maybe Fika being a specialized breed could relate to that set up, she just hasn't gotten the hyper intelligence serum shot yet.

[cyan crow]

SOMBRA SAVE HIM PLEASE

Maybe if I'm delusional enough blizzard will make sombra get OW to help her

[brittle sky]

She specifically is still "ew gross" re ow, so seems unlikely

[cyan crow]

[peak escarp]

she said she didn't think they would want her around, so I think she could go to them if they asked

[cyan crow]

They got grandpa running on a hamster wheel

[brittle sky]

I mean also worth noting - overwatch is beholden to the UN, especially if they want legitimacy, and the UN had sigma in a padded cell

[cyan crow]

Bros canonically the strongest so I don't blame the padded cell

A bit much but yk

[peak escarp]

I don't think it was specifically the UN that was holding him - his bio just says "government facility" and that facility was in New Mexico according to Code of Violence

[cyan crow]

I mean she has alot of their info at her hands if she wanted to blackmail too possibly

[peak escarp]

could just be the US government being the US government

[cyan crow]

I wonder what vendetta meant by use as a weapon

Would it be like the same way that conspiracy thing controls emre?

[brittle sky]

I thought sigma's old bio specified. Wild if us got him sans any international agreement. He's a dutch citizen whose accident took place on the station of a Chinese company. And the US seems to have largely receded into a part of the larger global order in a post crisis world (largely because overwatch the org embodied much of the interventionalist fantasies the us has about itself, and serves as both a critique and idealized form of it

[peak escarp]

it didn't specify

the UN is likely, I was just pointing out the facts

[spare fox]

I don't think JPC's lore is going to be that deep... I think at most she's going to be the former cat of someone who was stationed at WP Gibraltar who was killed or something

[peak escarp]

she was Moira's cat

[spare fox]

omg

[edgy meadow]

fika is probably a star pets defect

is my personal speculation

[edgy meadow]

would have been funny but unfortunately they immediately disproved that with an interaction

[peak escarp]

I know

[dense ermine]

I wonder if fika acts like a typical orange cat

[spare fox]

she looks like my cat, and we determined that my cat is a bastion main

[dense ermine]

She looks kinda like mine too!

[peak escarp]

the art from the short story depicts her as a longhair cat (or at least very fluffy)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the new video today made it look like she was floofy long hair all over.
It's hard to tell bc her 3d model has some oddly modeled paws indicating stylization might be up for interpretation, so while in 3d her tail looks long hair floofy, her body looks less like long hair.
I would hope she's meant to be a long hair cat, floofy hair body.

[peak escarp]

I don't think Fika is intended to be an obese/overweight cat, just a cutely pudgy cat

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair. Official bliz support made chonker obese fat cat memes, so idk what she's intended as.
I'll hope for floofy long hair cat.

[peak escarp]

chonker cat memes are funny

actual obese cats are not

[spare fox]

herreeee we go...

[shrewd pivot]

Can people stop being passive aggressive? Just say what you mean outright. You're doing the opposite of de-escalating.

I think chonker memes for species that naturally store fat for survival (like the internet celebrating wild bears being super successful for the winter) are fun for goodness sake lol

I can disagree about something, just as you can.
I do agree actual obese cats are not funny.

[dense garnet]

Fika is as tall as Lucio

[spare fox]

her model? lol

she is a big cat

[shrewd pivot]

Ever since the Bastion resizing, and then Lifeweaver resizing, I think it's fair to say in-game models are not only NOT canon sizes, but not even close to Canon sizes anymore. Ig we have to go by cinematics? Specific height info doesn't matter to me, but it's nice to know if a character is taller or shorter than another character canonically, for making things like comics etc.

But yeah Fika seems to be a big cat, but maybe not "Lucio tall" big in canon tho haha

[left granite]

So, Brig just decided to add a jetpack to a CAT because of a past inspiration?

[wise grotto]

She tried with another cat and it failed and she never succeeded at it

Fika was attempt two

[cyan crow]

W fika

[hidden raft]

With story focus, could Null Sector PVE potentially come back finally maybe?

[edgy meadow]

hell no

[hidden raft]

😭

[edgy meadow]

they are never stepping foot into that again

at least not in the same way

at best, i can see a full on pve-only game distinct from the current overwatch game, in several years from now

[hidden raft]

Id be fine without the skill tree i just want my robot war storyline 💔

[edgy meadow]

we'll probably get something with null sector eventually

just not pve missions

[hidden raft]

I wish we at the very least get Retribution back

Its a pretty integral part of the new vendetta story

[hidden raft]

If that happens itll be 80 bucks 💔

[edgy meadow]

probably

but thats just how the monkey's paw curls

[edgy meadow]

well they put the cutscenes from retribution in the story log

so people can just refer to the events of that story and saves them from ever bringing that mission back

[hidden raft]

Just the opening though

[edgy meadow]

again, i think after having to fight with their teeth to restore the gane's legacy from doom, they are never touching pve ever again

[edgy meadow]

bc thats the one that mattered the most, to be fair

[hidden raft]

I guess

Id at least like to see all of Retribution remade in a watchable cinematic

Thatd be a cool watch

the other pves too like uh

What was it again

Storm rising?

[edgy meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1309644033844314133/1465510940689694740/BAHHH-4x.gif

yes storm rising

i dont think theyre gonna do that, and as much as i understand the affinity to the old pves i dont think they should do that

moving forward instead of looking back is the right thing for the game

[hidden raft]

Rh fair enough

[edgy meadow]

and progressing the story is ultimately gonna maintain more interest than retelling old stories

especially when storm rising is meant to lead up to the disastrous null sector arc

[hidden raft]

I wonder how Null Sector will come back. They wouldnt just abandon a huge group related to the story

Right

[edgy meadow]

probably not

especially since we got a tease for it with the reconcilliation comic

its probably gonna be a thing in the future

maybe next year

this year is talon and vendetta focused so

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah my bet in future years we get two years with arcs about Space apes arc and one about Ramattra Nullsector arc

[dense garnet]

I've seen people say 2 of the heroes we haven't seen yet this year are Null Sector afilliated

[shrewd pivot]

Unclear for now, would be goated tho

[dense garnet]

Omnic Noir and the other robot looking one

I think it would make sense if Vendetta tries to seek out Null Sector later towards the endgame

[shrewd pivot]

Her voiceline with Ramattra seemed pretty threatening, i don't know if an alliance could be achieved. But if Vendetta ever attacks Ramattra/Nullsector in the arctic, it's poking a sleeping polar bear lmafo

OH BTW I was so shocked in a recent voiceline that Cassidy said Vendetta's father wasn't a tyrant. Like... ig Cassidy meant publicly loud enemy?
Antonio/Vialli etc were def tyrants in that they controlled oppressive evil organizations, no? Or is it that Antonio wasn't actually mafia-esque...?

[peak escarp]

a tyrant is a cruel and oppressive leader... maybe Cassidy is saying that Antonio wasn't cruel

maybe Antonio was a good boss

Vendetta seems like she would shoot the messenger, their family, their parents and their dog

maybe Antonio was the type to let people make up for their mistakes

[edgy meadow]

antonio was just a businessman selling weapons to talon, not a talon leader that turns the organization into an imperialist force launching terrorist attacks

obviously antonio wasnt innocent but its a different tier of villainy

which is what i think cass is saying

vendetta's ambitions have far exceeded the simple desire of assembling her father's legacy back

if thats all she did she's just own her own private weapons manufacturing company

and honestly, its a very good point to make

im glad they addressed it with an interaction

i think this also does a really good job of pointing out the main sin vendetta as a character demonstrates , which is an immense and unrelenting degree of pride

her leading talon is no longer about revenge, she has a taste of power and now she wants to empty the lake from which she drank

[brittle sky]

He didn't seek direct political power, and as a result likely didn't become a problem on the scale of a dictator. Organized crime is brutal, but it's different than a fiefdom interested in controlling everyone in all ways.

[shrewd pivot]

ty for the explanations.

I had assumed Antonio was mafia style organized crime bc of all the writing/tropes surrounding him and Vendetta, which is unforgiving racketeering and tyrant like, even if underground -- it's a 'quiet' control that terrorizes people. If anything a mafia-style Antonio would be proud of his daughter for avenging him/his honor and creating an even larger empire of fame and wealth to make the Bartolotti name instill fear and awe in the globe, his legacy would be extremely grand. But maybe Antonio isn't mafia-style at all, and i misunderstood.

Underground cartel style organized crime is ofc different from Vendetta's overt loud empire attacking the globe, I was just suprised Cassidy didn't see Antonio as a tyrant. But that makes sense if Cass means tyrant like imperialist expansion like Vendetta is doing, vs tyrant like oppressive ruler

[brittle sky]

I also think as bad as the Mafia is, you'd have a hard time arguing with the notion that in terms of people impacted, the likes of say mussilini was worse. Organized crime is worse than its romanticized reputation and often hurts innocents, but it's not the same for reach or extent of rule.

Like, Antonio was a bad man and Cass isn't saying otherwise (his response to being investigated was to blow up a building full of people), but he didn't make outright war purely to put his name on the map (or whatever the shape and drive of vendetta's scheme seems to be)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, I think maybe that stems from the fact mafia in media aren't about "outright war" -- it's about disappearances, blackmail, racketeering, etc. Irl, there is some 'outright war' as in open air violence with mafia, some of the worst gang violence in fact.

Vendetta is doing all that usual media mafia crime + directly getting revenge on overwatch bc she has enough power to do so openly.

I had assumed Antonio would actually want his offspring to avenge him as harshly as possible following mafia-rules about family legacy/honor, but maybe not.

These are all good discussions of media, ty to the three of you for responses btw

[edgy meadow]

there is a degree of mafia-esque influence, namely corrupting the local government, which is why Reaper believed that just getting Antonio arrested would be meaningless. But for the most part - to out knowledge - Antonio's primary role in the talon council was just supplying the organization with the resources it needed for action, under doomfist's older, low-key rule.

Maybe he would have approved of Vendetta's actions, but we don't know for sure. Cassidy's argument is that Vendetta's ruthless, prideful approach to her actions and leadership strays far from how Antonio played his part in old Talon

Vendetta doesn't even deny this, just saying that Cass is a fool if he thinks her ambitions end with simply restoring her father's legacy

[brittle sky]

I mean, Antonio seems to be considered the old hegemon of talon, and notably our doomfist wasn't on the council until after Antonio's fall. We have no evidence doomfist's predecessor, the second doomfist, was in charge of talon

[edgy meadow]

if thats true it seems my facts were wrong, because i thought it was heavily implied that doomfist personally forsaw for antonio's replacement after he died, and not with himself

[brittle sky]

Nah, akande didn't even become doomfist until after. Now, it's possible he deposed the scourge immediately and somehow messed with Antonio's seat before his funeral, but that would be a very right schedule

Now vendetta's comic seems like it wants to imply that so she can have Animus against doom in particular, but it doesn't super line up

Combine with the fact that Antonio didn't want her to inherit his crime holdings, the "inheritance denied" line generally and against akande specifically seems a little strained.

[gusty cloak]

why is it called project jetpack katt and not cat

[rare trail]

katt is swedish for cat

and brig is swedish

[gusty cloak]

ohh

ty

[sand veldt]

Is ram and zen directly inspired by professor x and magneto

[subtle bison]

I do see the similarities, but I doubt it. The idea of 1 person who wants to forgive and a relative/friend who wants to do the opposite is kinda common.

[grim condor]

Why does Talon care about Baptiste

He wasn't like an important guy

[grim condor]

Is Emre the dude from Freja's comic "The Storm Chaser" that left Overwatch?

[willow rose]

He is mauga's best friend

So mauga wants him back

[grim condor]

Wouldn't they kill him though

Like Vendetta isnt just gonna be like "hey welcome back"

[willow rose]

No sombra knows where he was

[grim condor]

Didnt Sombra leave Talon

After Doomfist got wrecked

[brittle sky]

Yes

[grim condor]

Thank god he changed his hair

Damn

[brittle sky]

Vendetta openly said she would, yeah.

[grim condor]

RIP

[brittle sky]

It's a matter of pride talon won't even let a trooper level merc go. Vendetta, who seems to want to take that from a loose alliance of villain factions with a pmc attached to a strict hierarchy, would care about that all the more.

[patent moth]

whats funny is the bastion resizing makes complete sense in canon since it could just be torb giving him a new, smaller chasis

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah lol

Something im still waiting for is some kind of twin motif surrounding Vendetta as a shewolf, I wonder what it will be (if they bother to implement it that is)

Sojourn has a twin sister and is leading overwatch to fight Vendetta's Talon, but beyond that there's no twin things around Vendetta yet.

[brittle sky]

Would be surprised if they dig much into the romulus/remus thing

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah.... tho they had that whole event where teams were named Romulus and Remus, so atleast they know about it. Idk

Just hoping for Vendetta to actually represent a shewolf mythos in some way lol

[brittle sky]

Not sure we have evidence of that beyond a foundation of empire and some vague roman themes. Also not sure if leaning so hard into that kind of symbolism would be all that wise...

[grave saddle]

A unknown sibling to vendetta would be interesting to challenge her belief about what she was “owed” by heritage

[shrewd pivot]

The symbolism of Vendetta mentoring twin characters, or having twins work for Vendetta, is what i meant. Not anything beyond a mythos ref

Her shewolf refs thus far is "feral" wolf like vibe (writers words not mine, which isn't very shewolf, just wolf wolf) and general Italian iconography with a Grey wolf, and her wolf icon design for Talon, her sword, etc. The shewolf mythos is pretty famous for a reason, so I think it would be interesting to see more of it

[dawn topaz]

So uhh, which skins are lore relevant again?

Obviously stuff like the Overwatch skins (Cadet Tracer, Young Ana, etc.) are, but what about the new Battlepass skins

[spare fox]

yeah I'm pretty sure all the OW team and Talon team skins are canon

[dawn topaz]

There's also the Blackwatch skins and stuff like Solider: 24 for Reaper

So most if not all Archives skins would also count

[grave saddle]

I think there’s a YouTube video where they go through canon skins. Obviously a tad outdated now

But essentially any skins that show up in cinematics or other lore

But that does mean it doesn’t include skins that haven’t been worn in those visuals

[vapid tusk]

does emre have a dual personality? it seems like something possesses him during his ultimate

[brittle sky]

not a dual personality, but an outside entity (hypothesized to be a specific god ai or some part of it) takes control of him.

also why while possessed he speaks finnish, while emre speaks and can presumably only understand english/turkish

[vapid tusk]

ahh okay that's interesting

[left granite]

I've noticed some Sombra interations with Emre and one from Freja relating to finding out more of the Eye Symbol that is on Emre and related to Sombra's history.

[sand veldt]

So does reaper still love his family?

[arctic moat]

im reading orisas story in heroes ascendent rn and efis "junies" reminded me of one of the upcoming heroes

[dry pebble]

Can't wait to see his Sprays unironically

It shucks how there's near nothing in terms of sprays we have gotten for Emre and Domina, they are both goated heroes

Specifically Domina, fond of her design

[arctic moat]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch_gamepedia/images/3/34/June-unity.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20250510135133

this is a junie

i think that the hero with the drone is gonna be efi or at very least someone from numbani

[wooden drift]

Efi is a child

No way she's gonna playable

[arctic moat]

yes you are right but someone related to efi and orisa

because the junies that efi made for numbani are by far the closest thing that resembles the silhouette we have for the hero

[wooden drift]

Isn't that hero supposed to be more connected with helix?

[arctic moat]

according to whom

because not according to anything official

officially the only info we have is the silhouette

everything else is speculation

[wooden drift]

Because one of Vendetta's targets is thingy protected by helix

So having helix hero kinda makes sense, than numbani's

[dry pebble]

Gosh i hope it won't be

[arctic moat]

whether it makes sense or not that drone in my opinion cant be anything but a junie

[dry pebble]

Beef with pharah gotta be crazy

[arctic moat]

the only confirmed info we have about the hero is the silhouette and that its a dps

[wooden drift]

I mean, her silhouette looks a bit militaristic

[arctic moat]

i dont think so

i think she just has a big gun

[dry pebble]

I hope they pull off something good with the Detective Omnic so far

This will be the third omnic that looks akin to Ram and Zen, both so important and deeply thought heroes

[wooden drift]

I always say that I want him to be a silly detective type

[dry pebble]

I expect the same quality of standart to be carried within this as well

[wooden drift]

And I don't think she has any connections to numbani

[dry pebble]

I don't like bringing conversation to myself but there was a time i thought of if there was a third omnic character that would follow the same line of religious imagery within Ramattra and Zenyatta with different cultures

And i ended up creating satan, lucifer inspired cliche thing myself

[wooden drift]

He just looks like detective

What spiritual there

[dry pebble]

No its not about that character

[arctic moat]

m

a

maybe not

but that drone looks a lot like a junie to me

[dry pebble]

This was one of imaginatives i had within thinking of these two and trying to predict the third if there was one way before the reveal of detective's silhouette

It is unrelated but i happen to shift the conversation

[wooden drift]

Not really, junie looks like a bug. And these drones either look like birds or these fishes with wings

[wooden drift]

Nuh, it's fine

[arctic moat]

im trying to connect actual existing stuff here not making things up and of the drones we have seen nothing else looks similar

[wooden drift]

Overwatch always gives new characters new things to be honest

[dry pebble]

To be fair from what i can tell they will go within the route of bringing the requested characters in order to keep the playerbase high

Attracting them

[shrewd pivot]

The drone from the unknown hero silhouette looks different from junies imo, iirc you can see the 3d model of junies in numbani maps

[wooden drift]

I have no idea who is highly requested except mama hong

Like before that there were emre and jetpack cat

So, uh, yeah

[gusty cloak]

am i the only one who has a love hate relationship with this game where the lore brings me back but then i have a miserable time in game

[wooden drift]

Nuh, it's normal

I had horrible time with the game today

It happens

[dry pebble]

D Mon is pretty much requested

[wooden drift]

Not really

[dry pebble]

Which is likely the next tank they have teased

IDK you are also right by your own

[wooden drift]

I saw jetpack cat and mama hong being mentioned frequently

[dry pebble]

It because the time Ow have shown various of characters before release + in some sequences everyone be asking for one of those

[dry pebble]

Actually come to invest this do you guys like to hear some made up headcanon if this was ever happened by me

A little dopamine wouldnt be bad

[wooden drift]

Sure

[dry pebble]

I think Overwatch may use ignorant antagonists on its rove

I do like to believe this third Omnic wouldn't acknowledge the awakening lead by Irıs, and therefore pretty much stand against of it due the conflicts and such lead to the Anubis

[wooden drift]

I don't think going back to Anubis would be logical, when they're focusing on Vendetta

[dry pebble]

Would end up despising its own kind, omnics. And defend the idea of the Omnics should've been stand obedient instead of going all to this awakening bullshit and cause this amount of deaths in world

Pretty much counts as an Oc but i was just making up things in mind

I also like to thing compared to Ramattra and Zenyatta, this specific omnic would also had Orb if its own left from its old, monk history. But the Orb would be levitating and it would be chained to him by its arm symbolising the awakening he denigrating

Anyways had enough with this fanmade headcanons and lead our talk to actual, canon lore.

[wooden drift]

Nuh, he's weapon is some kind of pole

No orbs

[dry pebble]

Why Pole specifically

[wooden drift]

Cuz it's visible in that silhouette

[dry pebble]

Visible in what silhouette

[wooden drift]

In what was shown

[dry pebble]

Are you talking about Detective

Is that so, the thing i was talking of wasnt related to him in anyways.

But yeah, for the context of Omnic that shown that pretty much of a Pole

[dense garnet]

I think people have asked for D.MON almost as long as JPC

It's pretty much the only candidate for a mech hero unless they wanna throw in a surprise Junker

And the "leaked" concept art looks more like a Meka rather than a Junker

People argue that the D.MON meka we see in their map is too large to be playable, but D.VA's meka is also scaled way down to how big it actually is

[dry pebble]

I only wish it was the blue MEKA we have gotten as Support i think it would be fire

Ow lacks of threatening supports

[dense garnet]

Mizuki was kinda meant to fill that role

[dry pebble]

I wish there was more to his look than what we got to be honest.

[wooden drift]

Maybe next hashimoto character would be like this

[dry pebble]

I hope there won't be one

[civic lynx]

I fear this very clearly is another hashimoto hero

[dense garnet]

Season 3 is 100% gonna be a Hashimoto villain

Or at least 90%

The horns is an indication that they're wearing a Hashimoto demon mask

Probably will be the first Japanese hero without Anima unless Toshiro gave in

[dry pebble]

Completely forgotten about this image

Quite hyped for next season, its gonna invest on Antartica which where Null Sector currently is

I predict that Ramattra going to override their programming into turning their sides into him

[civic lynx]

I feel like if doom is saved by null sector like people theorise currently, the map rework will have some sort of teaser of his presence there or the new gauntlet being manufactured

[dry pebble]

The New gauntlet thing kinda confuses me

Does that means that his look will be redesigned once again

Which sucks because his Ow 2 design is perfect enough

[civic lynx]

I’d assume so and it’s a lore explanation for another rework (back to DPS?)

[dry pebble]

Mayhaps

[dry pebble]

I doubt this will happen actually

And i overly hope it wont

I didn't played Ow 1 but since the revert of Tank i always find the lore being more suiting to him

[civic lynx]

I don’t want him back as DPS but considering how popular he was back then and they want to attempt to please fans nowadays, he might end up reworked back to fit that role

D.mon looks like they’ll be melee based on their previous appearances and the spotlight concept so they might have a kit/playstyle similar to tank doom and then he goes back to DPS

[dense garnet]

People have speculated that he's gonna get a rework like they promised some heroes will be getting around season 3

And that he's gonna get a redesign to represent that

[dry pebble]

As far as how much im happy of Overwatch gettings its reputition back, it is sucks to see it is slowly turning its progression into the other Pvp games in regard

[dry pebble]

😔 His OW 2 was perfect

[civic lynx]

They use doom in the BlizzCon 2026 artwork to represent OW so I think they will announce something big linked to him there other than his survival in lore

Returning him to DPS could be that other big announcement

[dense garnet]

Support Doomfist

[civic lynx]

😭

[dense garnet]

I think once we get Doomfist's inevitable redesign, he's gonna get his lore updated in the hero gallery

It's still currently empty

[civic lynx]

I think they’ll do that for BlizzCon

They’ll have a cinematic revealing he survived the fall and then update the hero gallery to tease whatever he plans to do next

[dense garnet]

I do think that we're getting 2 Null Sector heroes for the final 2 seasons of this year

Omnic Noir and the other Omnic-looking hero

[civic lynx]

The detective imo just based on vibes doesn’t seem linked to null sector

The far left one as I’ve said before looks like a slightly retooled version of the stalker enemy from PvE

[dense garnet]

Noir cracks me up still because the silhouette makes them look like JP from Street Fighter as a robot

[shrewd pivot]

Not that it matters for canon (Ganymede is based on a Citrine wagtail bird but Ganymede looks very different) but Fika might be inspired by the "Siberian Cat" breed, rounder faces with thick fur that makes the cat look larger than it is, yet the tail looks like longer hair. Big cat breed too!

Morbid curiosity for when we inevitably get a sphinx cat skin for JPC to see what the devs decide to do for that lmafo (either Fika's silhouette without floof, or lean into pudgey cat look, either way it will be funny)

[crisp canyon]

So in the bp Zarya has sprays for a skin but I haven’t seen anything pointing towards her getting one for new era is gonna be a next season thing or is there gonna be a bundle coming with other heroes

[viral pilot]

So Sojourn's dog, Murphy, will be a future new hero, right?

Brigitte be like: I sense something special about him so let's shove him in a tank or something idk 😐🤷

[civic lynx]

Possible but I don’t think they’ve considered it just yet 😭

[viral pilot]

Tank Dog, calling it lok

Lol

[civic lynx]

They mentioned in an article they have a funny idea for an evil orangutang that’s a tank (conceptualised as an evil mirror of Winston) that may one day end up as a hero

I think that will be the next animal hero

[viral pilot]

That'd be even more funny. They can base him off King Louie from Jungle Book

[merry mason]

One of the seasons will be vendetta recruiting the moon apes mark my words

[civic lynx]

I don’t think that’ll happen ngl 😭

Vendetta wants world domination she don’t need some damn apes to do that

[merry mason]

Why stop at just one world

[civic lynx]

Bc I fear she dgaf about the damn moon

The mars colony is probably public knowledge as well bc of how massive of a milestone it is and she doesn’t seem bothered about that

[brittle sky]

It's very famously a secret

Because it's super illegal

Juno story even has Dr. Chao go "HEY DON'T RAT US TO THE FEDS"

[brittle sky]

Also notable and most compelling, there's a lunar ape mentioned by name in interactions that probably set to be an ideal foil to Winston.

[viral pilot]

I remember the evil monkey character rumored but I just assumed they scrapped the idea and gave us Hamster instead

[spare fox]

no no it was speculated - and widely believed - that Hammond was a chimp or smaller monkey

because the info we had on him was that he was "a smaller specimen" we never learned he was a hamster until his release

[viral pilot]

Ohhh

[spare fox]

people were genuinely confused that Hammond was a hamster and not a monkey or chimp, that's how much everyone believed it

[viral pilot]

They had a whole menagerie up there I guess

[dense garnet]

Why would the monkeys on the moon wanna fight for some girl they don't know on a planet they don't care about

[spare fox]

are you seriously asking or just being silly? I can't tell from the tone

[dense garnet]

It's rhetorical

[viral pilot]

They can bond over retribution or something

[spare fox]

gotcha, sorry my brain is fried lol

[crisp canyon]

We do need evil monkey tho, we should petition to name him harambe

[brittle sky]

Winston mentions hypatia by name in an interaction with wb, leading Hammond to go "oh, her". Hypatia was previously mentioned in the horizon emails as being one of their "usual troublemakers". So there's a named ape with differing opinions (the naive Winston likes her, the cynical Hammond is skeptical of her, and the scientists pegged her as a ringleader)

Which is all to say, give Winston a sinister girlfriend.

[crisp canyon]

Hell nah my goat Winston don’t like evil

R emre and Freja together cause that’s the sense I’m getting

[brittle sky]

Wrecking Ball: Where did all the simians in the lunar colony go?
Winston: I wish I knew... oh, Hypatia, especially...
Wrecking Ball: Oh, her.

[crisp canyon]

And why is blizzard so scared now to lean into mercy and genji

[brittle sky]

Evil nah. Hardened planet (moon) of the apes revolutionary who don't trust humans who would make sapient life just so they could risk their lives instead? Hell yeah.

[brittle sky]

Likely not so much scared as uninterested.

[crisp canyon]

It adds to the lore tho

[peak escarp]

I am generally against animal heroes... but I'd make an exception for Hypatia

[brittle sky]

In that it's a thing that happens sure. Is it a thing that changes our understanding of either character? Not really.

[peak escarp]

give us girlboss gorilla

[crisp canyon]

And give her the Disney body

[peak escarp]

ew no

[brittle sky]

Canonically, the reason hypatia hasn't come out yet is blizzard know she'd upstage vendetta. It's canon. My uncle is jaafron overwatcher

[peak escarp]

so... next year then

after Vendetta is defeated and the status quo returns

[brittle sky]

Hypatia for next talon hegemon.

Her agenda is "do a planet of the apes" and talon troopers are like "that's not even the worst thing I've fought for this year"

[viral pilot]

😅

[crisp canyon]

Well my dad is Aaron and he said Freja and Emre are a couple, Moira is transgender and roadhog is asexual and mizuki and wuyang are gay and they’re gonna show all this off at blizzcon

[dense garnet]

Tell Aaron to make Bastion x Orisa canon

[crisp canyon]

He said Ram X Orisa is better

[dense garnet]

Fair. Make Echo x Bastion canon instead

[crisp canyon]

I’ll let him know

[brittle sky]

Exactly one of those has anything like the juice.

[crisp canyon]

Juice?

[brittle sky]

The good stuff.

[crisp canyon]

Idk I think thats pretty good, we finally get a canon couple, confirmation on heavily speculated identities and yaoi

[viral pilot]

Is attaching photos forbidden?

Was gonna ask something in regards to one of the silhouettes

NVM it was answered

[brittle sky]

I don't think taking the one mildly androgynous woman who is also associated with unethical body modification, who the rest of the cast pretty universally regards as morally depraved, and declaring her ow's first canonical trans character is a good look.

[crisp canyon]

Isn’t there a good amount of ppl alr who see Moira as trans/genderqueer?

[viral pilot]

The developers would explicitly state it probably like they did with Venture being non binary

[crisp canyon]

We didn’t get that with tracer, 76, pharah or Baptiste venture and lw are the only 2 who did

[brittle sky]

Not really seen much besides people that think that based on the fact she's very slightly androgynous.

[crisp canyon]

Idk i remember when she was revealed at blizzcon a lot of ppl thought she was trans and the inclusion of the david Bowie themed skins maybe reaffirmed that given he was very queer in terms of fashion sense

[brittle sky]

I think it's a real bad look, and while I think people of every stripe deserve to have villains in their camo, Moira has very bad optics

[crisp canyon]

Is her being androgynous any better tho for optics? Shes gonna be a villain either way but she also has a fanbase I don’t think that would mind her being so

[edgy meadow]

id rather we have actual and good trans rep rather than head canoning one of the most morally vile characters in the lore as trans

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395993166878343169/1460268108114825450/image0.gif

[brittle sky]

Morally questionable in ways that parallel the crappiest people's takes on trans folk. Like jq or vendetta as trans? Sure, go for it, even though both of them seem at least as morally bad as Moira.

Though now that I think about it chuds will use it to talk about sports and muscle tone or some crap.

[crisp canyon]

I mean I don’t really take moiras morals into question when I say that I would like her to have that representation 4 ppl, it be kinda big if she was since she’s one of the more well know characters in the game

Maybe not necessarily transgender but confirmation of some queer gender identity would be sick I think

[crisp canyon]

They’ve been doing this to Zarya since it launched

[edgy meadow]

im all in on offering more of this stuff in the game, i just think theres heavy and dangerous implications on deciding to confirm/make the evil scientist that openly breaks moral codes and violates human rights and animal rights, to be gender queer nearly half a decade after she's been added to the game

[brittle sky]

Sure. Didn't think of those two as immediately because they aren't as jacked (hey how come we're only getting tonality and not actual mass on the women, blizzard?) but the notion of Antonio at once being "I am so supportive of my beautiful daughter. Also because she is my daughter, I no longer want her in my crime business." Because just because you're trans supportive doesn't mean you aren't on some machismo malarkey.

[brittle sky]

(which is why you make mercy trans)

[edgy meadow]

100 billion dollars to blizzard

[crisp canyon]

I guess so, but Moira was definitely designed with intention to not be heteronormative and the David Bowie skin seems like they were leaning into a gender queer aspect whether it’s expanded upon further idk but I would support it I think

[edgy meadow]

im aware, im not denying theres hints of non-normativity, but its a different story entirely to be open about it from day 1, and retrospectively adding to the facts/changing the facts to make that accomodation

it would frankly come off in bad taste if they did it now, so its honestly all the better to not do it at all

[grand frigate]

im trying to draw young Genji and Hanzo fight, where can i see where Genji got his injuries? (Like an autopsy or something like that)

[crisp canyon]

Just look at his black watch and new era skin

[edgy meadow]

this image and blackwatch genji are your best bets

source: overwatch de:classified

[grand frigate]

thx both

[elfin bane]

like did hanzo just genuinely chop off his whole legs

like in one go

[brittle sky]

That one's at least a little incomplete given it's missing facial scarring. Wouldn't be surprised if they just commissioned and outside artist and told them to base it off the black watch skin.

[crisp canyon]

Hanzo went brazy on that guy, the face, the arms, the legs 😭 no I know why he doesn’t have a sword anymore

[brittle sky]

Look, hanzo is real good with a sword.

[grand frigate]

I believe that art was a little censored. Judging his mask, at least hanzo destroyed his lower jaw

[crisp canyon]

Hanzo cut his dih off 🥀

[brittle sky]

That's that's been speculated with new era's cyberjaw. Just depends on how much you lean into the canonicity of the new era skin (not explicitly confirmed) or the declass image (side media, outside artist)

[grand frigate]

real reason genji was doubting if he was still a human

[crisp canyon]

Did Mercy rebuild it tho?

[grand frigate]

cyber dih

[brittle sky]

Think chu hilariously confirmed he still had a human junk

[crisp canyon]

Mercy had her priorities straight

Saving dih over face>>>

[grand frigate]

hanzo was a villan not a monster, he didnt cut there

[peak escarp]

why are people so obsessed with Genji's penis?

also the facial scaring seen in Dragons could have happened later

[viral pilot]

I've only been active in this discord for a week and I've seen genji's penis mentioned at least 3 times lol

[wise grotto]

One of the weirdest things the ow team ever confirmed he still had

[peak escarp]

it's not that weird, someone asked if Genji could still use the toilet

Chu was just answering a question

no need to be weird about it

in fact, it would be weirder if he didn't still have it, because why

[wise grotto]

It really wouldn’t be weirder if he didn’t
The why’s pretty easy he was cut in half

[winged shale]

So I’m new to overwatch and been playing sigma a lot and wanted to learn more of his lore. Is it safe to say after the accident that he became a version of Dr manhattan that is unable to control his powers?

[brittle sky]

Not quite that beyond human comprehension, but quite powerful.

[winged shale]

I mean more of the past, present, and future aspect

And being able to see all of those visions of himself is torturing him?

[brittle sky]

His perspective is more linear, though he seems to have some concept of seeing other universes. Whether that is hallucination or if he has done things like shifted perception into other universes or met the shambali's divinity is uncertain.

[winged shale]

I don’t know who talon is really but i assume we’ll find out more about sigma soon hopefully?

I know sombra is trying to free him from talon

[brittle sky]

From vendetta's version certainly. She wasn't always comfortable with his treatment before, but she was complicit in the more gentle form of his captivity

[winged shale]

Alright cool thanks for the info

[brittle sky]

Np

[spare fox]

IDT he was cut in half so much as he was eviscerated and his main limbs were severely injured... I THINK it's very likely he was thrown from a high place bc I can't really think of another way Hanzo could walk away believing he was dead otherwise
but just a theory really

[peak escarp]

there's some environmental storytelling on Hanamura point B that suggests Genji was slashed shoulder to hip, and voice lines from Archives missions suggest that Hanzo's attack left him paralyzed/unable to walk

[dense garnet]

People are speculating the season 2 hero's voice actor is getting teased right now

[peak escarp]

so the bisection theory has evidence

although he probably wasn't cut clean in half

more likely a deep cut that severed his spine

[brittle sky]

How so

[dense garnet]

https://x.com/i/status/2024267216661733630

[sullen girder]

Did sym say she’ll leave vishkar? Cause someone told me so a while back

[dense garnet]

She wants to, but she's staying to dig up dirt since it'd be easier if she's on the inside

[sullen girder]

Ahh, so she’s a spy. Got it

[dense garnet]

Once she's done, she'll most likely join Lifeweaver

[dense garnet]

It's more like she wants to see for herself how bad Vishkar is because she hasn't seen its ugly side yet

[sullen girder]

Now here’s another question. Do y’all think doom is really dead? I mean we saw him fall through the window and fall but who’s to say he didn’t survive?

[dense garnet]

They're not killing off a playable hero

My theory is that he's getting a rework and that'll reflect with a new arm redesign

[sullen girder]

That’s for sure

Also ngl, I never thought that whole retribution story line kinda would come back to play

[spare fox]

well they DID confirm that if a hero dies in the lore, they would STILL be playable no matter what

BUT I do not think Doom is dead

I'm 99% sure we'll see a "Return of Doomfist" themed season or arc at some point in the future

[shrewd pivot]

I just realized Anran is probably intended to have an ankle brace, but they placed the ankle brace frame (tall rectangular piece) on the wrong part of her foot...?

Like im not understanding why her sock has a strap + loop otherwise?

Like idk what the purpose of this part is (ankle brace frame on wrong part of foot maybe?), if anyone can let me know that would be appreciated

[spare fox]

maybe it's just design? maybe it's some kind of future-tech?

she has a setup line that says she forgot to tape her achilles

maybe it's just part of it and she forgot to finish putting it on properly?

[shrewd pivot]

Fair guess, tho taping Achilles tendon looks different, it's along the back of the leg (Achilles tendon) and applied directly on skin

[spare fox]

OR maybe it's part of her fire tech

[shrewd pivot]

Hm true, maybe.
I don't think it's a sock suspender bc only one sock has it and usually only knee socks+ get suspenders, so it's probably something of use otherwise

[spare fox]

I personally think it's just design, asymmetrical is (usually) more visually interesting to look at

[crisp canyon]

Are the junkers in talon now, today’s mission for talon had thing about playing as Junkrat is a bonus towards a challenge

[brittle sky]

They're looking to get mauga to give them an alliance

[crisp canyon]

Okay ✅

So I wonder if ow is gonna get the phreaks then since that seems like the only faction they could still get

Is volskaya mentioned in the lore at all

Like recently

[shrewd pivot]

True. I personally think she should have had more details on her legs to sell the compression/brace user athletic look, Hm... shame they didn't include actual Achilles taping for Anran base design, many kinds are out there but they could have had some fun "bird leg horizontal scale lines" design with it. Maybe a skin one day will play with these concepts of athletic wear on the legs

[spare fox]

nope, that kind of fizzled out, or was back burnered

[spare fox]

again, she has a line about how she forgot to tape it... and the thing that is there could just be a futuristic device or method developed in the future, that's why it looks like it does

[shrewd pivot]

Yeye, I was just saying an athletic wear design on the legs in a skin might be cool one day

Sad that Anran seems to be pushing through tendon pains tho, but it's a good motif of a phoenix/vermillion bird rising once again, fits her writing well

[brittle sky]

Phreaks do not like talon, and volskaya's only leverage is blackmail from Sombra. I don't think literally every faction will be brought to bear here.

[shrewd pivot]

Does this flavor text in game count as canon btw? If so I think this implies that Fika is canonically supporting overwatch alongside Brigitte in battle.

You could argue on if Fika is actually fighting or just simply supporting tho

[dense garnet]

We've known this since s1 was announced

Fika is actively fighting against Talon with OW

Brig completed the jetpack just as Talon attacked Gib

[shrewd pivot]

Others were saying Fika might not be canonically an agent for overwatch on the battlefield bc of the prior text, this text confirms Fika is officially on the battlefield in some way imo

[dense garnet]

Don't know why she wouldn't be. We've known that Brig completed the jetpack in time for the attack on Gib, and the new short story confirms it

It also hints that Fika is more than just an average cat, seeing as she was found in between some engine parts and conveniently knocked over the blueprints for the jetpack

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah me either, I thought Fika was on the battlefield with overwatch too ever since the bio released.

but explicit canon is fair to be specific about, so I brought up the new flavor text

[shrewd pivot]

I certainly hope she is lol. Otherwise it recontextualizes a lot of lore/worldbuilding if Fika is just like Ganymede with baseline normal animal intelligence or something

Fika doesn't NEED to be a space animal genetic experiment, but she does need to be more than a normal cat intelligence.

[peak escarp]

even if she is a "normal" cat, she clearly isn't average intelligence for all felines

the existence of one genius does not make all humans equally as intelligent

[ocean kettle]

what's the current lore on McCree these days

[peak escarp]

his name is Cole Cassidy, and he returned to Overwatch to help mentor the next generation of heroes

[sullen girder]

Yeah well, it’s gonna be a long time till the lore continues. Last I checked the story is gonna continue once a year.

[spare fox]

you might want to check again

[sullen girder]

They said that didn’t they?

[spare fox]

they're going to have an overarching story each year, with a beginning, middle, and end planned out

so Conquest is just the beginning of this year's Reign of Talon

S2 looks like it will feature Talon working with Deadlock Gang, S3 looks Hashimoto-focused, S4 is probably Meka-Gwishin storyline but there's also Junkerqueen in the banner so ??

but anything can happen, really, this is just speculation based on the roadmap graphic

[brittle sky]

They've released what, 4 stories since the big year update?

[peak escarp]

we've gotten 8 lore pieces since the start of the year, 3 since the season started

[edgy meadow]

we're getting a lore drop on a weekly basis

and probably a big story event at the start of each season

[peak escarp]

4 if you count the short

[shrewd crystal]

Crazy theory that I just thought of, what if the origin of the explosion where Reyes and Morrison was caused by Emre after he got taken over by the organization!?

[viral pilot]

From what I understand, the explosion was directly caused by Reyes and Morrison's battle at the hq rather than a third party

[glad fox]

Is Moira's fade similar to reapers wraith or is that some different technology?

[wooden drift]

Nuh, it's connected with conspiracy

[viral pilot]

I believe it's the same experiment but it affected reaper differently due to his condition at the time

[viral pilot]

Conspiracy?

[shrewd crystal]

The organization on Emre's chest plate.

[viral pilot]

Oh yeah Idk much about the organization but the way the story was told at the time, it was a bad breakup between the two and no implication towards any other group pulling the strings

[shrewd crystal]

Just think about it... He left Overwatch, "joined" Talon, then admitted to Freja that this decision wasn't on his own will... "It made me join Talon." When Freja was on her plane tracking Emre's strikes, most of them were nearby Overwatch's command centers or on these centers directly... So... Who'd have access to these if not a former Overwatch agent himself?

(I just discussed this with Deepseek, and it's telling me that I might've solved one of Overwatch's cold cases😭😭😭)

[viral pilot]

Deepseek is probably also evil 🤷

[shrewd crystal]

I need an ego boost currently, so let me have this moment even if it might not be correct!😂😂😂

[viral pilot]

😅

[brittle sky]

I mean, of course it'll tell you that. It's the machine that tells you what you want to hear. That's its job.

[brittle sky]

Near global security centers, not watchpoints.

[shrewd crystal]

But yeah, a little something I thought of, is all!

[shrewd crystal]

Feed my delusions!!!!

[viral pilot]

Better stick with deepseek then

[shrewd crystal]

Isn't there any dev here to confirm my theory?☹️

[viral pilot]

Well I'm a dev and I'm here to tell you that it's actually Hammond who is secretly pulling the strings behind Emre and furthermore, Talon. Likewise Jetpack Cat, or Fika is secretly pulling the strings behind Overwatch. They're kinda like opposing cult leaders competing whose dumb idea will prove victorious

[shrewd crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/gasp-latina-gasp-in-spanish-dramatic-soap-opera-gif-12960529119319901085

[shrewd crystal]

No wonder why Emre's suit smells like hamster's pee...💔

[viral pilot]

lmao wut

[brittle sky]

Get better delusions then.

[shrewd crystal]

It's a reference to a line between Sym and Hammond, she starts by saying smth smells in here, is it you? Then Hammond activates his fanning system. (Assumed it'd be his pee lol)

[oblique spoke]

I REALLY disliked that Reaper escaped Talon AFRAID, afraaaaaaaaaiiid of Vendetta... I was totally expect him to escape with guns blazing, like Vendetta sending her minions to capture him and he would have blasted his way out. Reaper done dirty!

[brittle sky]

They didn't have the budget to show of every exit.

And I think it's less scared and more "new boss wants me very dead. Time to go"

[peak escarp]

there are no devs here

[cedar shuttle]

Deepseek like the fucking ai? Ew

[drowsy locust]

i swear there was a Easter egg planted around this in cryptic text

and also how do y'all think he survived? My guess is just that he ulted and went elsewhere lmao

[cedar shuttle]

He didn't have his fist

My guess is that he deadass just fell and got splattered but someone grabbed him and took him somewhere else

[civic lynx]

Idk about cryptic shit but blizzard are very clearly Easter egging his return at BlizzCon, as for how he survived I have no idea

[versed veldt]

this might be crazy but i had an idea (that'll probably never happen but it sounds cool in my head). imagine if talon wins the conquest event, and therefore talon wins the fight against overwatch and it stays like that for like a few seasons (what life would be like while talon has taken over the game/ow universe) and then BOOM the start of 2027 all the old agents of overwatch including s76, reaper ana etc come back to overwatch to fight back against talon and YES including emre because in the meantime he found out how to use the ai to his advantage and they win against talon and happily ever after

i know this would never actually happen i think this would just be cool as hell

[civic lynx]

Tbh I don’t think this is that far off. If the conquest echo skin is actually lore accurate (and let’s assume talon win the event) then they will have an incredibly powerful asset on their side and could end up winning the war for quite a big part of this year before they start to set up vendetta’s reign ending when doom returns at BlizzCon

[spare fox]

Echo would make a very very interesting addition to Talon's collection of "weapons"

especially since she's so impressionable (pun?)

and Echo's knowledge of OW agent abilities in Talon's hands and at their disposal...

[civic lynx]

I think they’ll also finally do something with the whole null sector is trying to clone OW agents thing (Ana mythic) soon so echo may not even be the only threat

[wise grotto]

Me when I partially lie
He didn’t leave afraid he left because objectively nkt being there gives him the best chance at staying alive so that he can kill vendetta
If he stayed she even says she would have executed him eventually

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah tbf, if anyone has the ability to kill Reaper, it would be Moira creating a genetic thing that can actually kill Reaper. And Moira sided with Vendetta, and Vendetta has all the reason to kill Reaper. So Reaper running is very logical, not really all that cowardly imo, it's very practical. Vendetta calling Reaper cowardly seems like Vendetta having pride/ego and enjoying messing with Reaper as suggested by her ending line of it being "entertaining"

[thorny hollow]

I need some rundown on Chernobog, Emres Eye,andSombras Eye, Iris, and Anubis. Im a little lost, especially as its 100% going to be the next lore after Doom's comeback. I find what I know already interesting, I think If I got it right, emre is possesed by the AI god entity chernobog who used to be a safety and guidance AI for humans but then shut down. Ik that it interrupted sombras sessions, but I also need a little more understanding on how sombras eye came to be. Or if it even has any correlation. I also ask about the Iris as Anubis was also an AI god, whos purpose and lore I forgot aswell, so I wonder if the Iris is all of these god AI's or even another AI overseeing all of them. Sigma is lucky to be the only one who met the Iris and I feel like that man will also be significant in later lore.

Also isint sombra part of a overseeing reslly sevret dangerous organization, even above vishkar and talon? Like shadowwatch or something like that called?

[worthy rose]

I really hope you meant "thing". lol

[shrewd pivot]

YES I DID SORRY. Freaking autocorrect/clumsy fingers

[worthy rose]

It's all good. Autocorrect gets me too. It was funny as hell though. lol

[worthy rose]

I'm a little behind too so I don't know much, but I do know that Anubis was the main villian of the Omnic Crisis. It was him that started it and tried to exterminate humanity.

[shrewd pivot]

The Iris is largely unknown in canon, it is canon that the Iris was left behind after Aurora sacrificed herself in the awakening to give free will to warbots controlled by Anubis, the awakened omnics allowed the 1st omnic crisis to stop. Speculation is that Aurora ascended from individual to something akin to god ai, but the Iris is not canonically confirmed to be a God ai.

Anubis was god ai for conservation, managed ecosystems.

The eye conspiracy that Sombra ran from is still an unknown in canon for what it exactly is, but yes Emre shows that Chernobog god ai of global security that was shut down, has something to do with the eye conspiracy.

[brittle sky]

Chernobog used to be global security God AI (notably Emre left Overwatch with a job offer about 'global security' and possessed Emre has beeen doing jobs for Talon that let him sneak off to hit data nodes related to 'Global Security'. Sombra's eye represents the attention of some kind of conspiracy, and certainly she regards the entity/Chernobog as responsible for the cyber attack on her, and the thing that triggered her fascination with the mystery she's looking into with S:76.

Anubis was an ecological preservation god AI that seemed to do the math and decide you can save the earth by killing humans (whether this was a pure algorithmic choice or the God AIs are more self-aware than people assume is an uncertainty.

The Iris is the metaphysical concept of the Shambali that speaks to the kind of hive of oneness formed in the Omnic awakening caused by Aurora's sacrifice.

[worthy rose]

For some stuff about the Iris, there's a short story called Stone by Stone in which Zenyatta teaches Symmetra about Omnic culture, here's a link:
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/stone-by-stone/

[brittle sky]

Sombra is not part of any extra organizations other than Talon (which she has left at least temporarily because Vendetta sucks), which she was using to get access to the conspiracy, though she does notably plan to take control over whatever conspiracy she finds, and she has a bit of her own network (making use of Soldier, Illari, and Venture, riling up Los Muertos, blackmailing Katya Volskaya)\

[worthy rose]

In the short story, Lucky Man, Sombra's also now teamed up with Soldier 76 because the eye thing that hacked her has been revealed to have been what conspired to, and succeeded in bringing about, the fall of Overwatch.

[subtle elm]

who cares

[brittle sky]

was literally answering a question Bubo asked.

[subtle elm]

who da fucks bubo

[worthy rose]

?
I didn't ask a question, it was Mr_Janitor.

[subtle elm]

thats what im sayin

even bubo agrees with me

[shrewd pivot]

I know we won't get the eye conspiracy blown open this year's arc, but man I am excited to see where it goes

Edit: there's no need to say "who cares" when someone answers a question, Genji...

[worthy rose]

??
Agree on what?

[subtle elm]

y feel me?

my boy

bubo

mmm

[brittle sky]

sorry, mixing up who asked. but answering a question

[worthy rose]

I was just pointing out that it was Mr_Janitor that asked about a lore update to Sombra, not me.

[subtle elm]

i see

[brittle sky]

there was still a person who asked a question, and I was still answering.

[minor wedge]

really stupid thought just hit

what if season 2's hero is amelie lacroix after a successful detox of all the things that made her all widowmakery and stuff

similar physique, long ass braid, beret so likely french.. that's all the evidence i've got

it wouldn't be too out there because not a single pvp match of overwatch is canon, as is enforced by doomfist continuing to exist, gauntlet and all

hell, maybe moira, in an act of fucked up and evil queen shit, has a widowmaker clone on standby in case the main one defects, i really doubt she hasn't invented artificial growth to make something like that possible

the potential for character interactions is ridiculous, and i think the only issue could be them sharing a voice actress, but i think chloe hollings could do different enough line deliveries for them to be distinct from one another

[worthy rose]

An issue with that is MirrorWatch already has good-Widowmaker, so making mainline Widowmaker good as well would be a bit redundant.

[crisp canyon]

This would still be widowmaker

[worthy rose]

But it is possible something like that would happen, since the latest Overwatch web comic states that Widowmaker is dependent on a drug cocktail that suppresses her emotions, without which she starts to get her emotions back and begins regretting all the killing she's done.

And now that she's left Talon, she's cut off from her supply.

[crisp canyon]

I don’t like this change to her lore, this seems like a big oversight to moiras experiments to just use drugs

She was brainwashed and trained for years to rival Overwatches too agents and the only thing keeping her that way is a NyQuil bottle

[thorny hollow]

Ohhh ty

[thorny hollow]

Hmm ok

Tyy

[worthy rose]

Making bad changes to lore is the job of the Overwatch story team. But it's implied that she chooses to use the drugs to further shut out her emotions, if that makes it any better.

[thorny hollow]

But my question now is, the only active AI gods are Anubis and Chernobog, so who do yall think is going to come out first in lore with it's own arc, a maybe both at once. Chernobg vs Anubis lol. I also believe Echo to be an extremely crucial aspect in this lore, she is made by liao, but I believe Echo has some aspects of Aurora's power. Echo may just be one of the most op heros omnic-wise besides sigma who can probably just crumble the planet with his gravity

[crisp canyon]

It doesn’t, I just hope they don’t go a path of Widow is a good guy now, the appeal of her is being dark, mysterious and a killer

[thorny hollow]

Buttt that may be bias cause I main echo lol

But when I analyze her powers, cinematic protrayals, and lore protrayals, there is missing lore on echo that the devs definitely know

[minor wedge]

man just forget i said anything if you're just gonna use it as an opportunity to be negative about the game

[worthy rose]

The short story, Thoughtless Gods, published online actually hint that the next story is going to be the Junkers invade China, Wrecking Ball wants revenge on the people in charge of the Lunar Coloney, here's a link:
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/thoughtless-gods/

[thorny hollow]

Oooo ok

[wise grotto]

She isn’t really mysterious I’ll be honest
For a very long time she’s been reliant on talon to keep things supressed there wasn’t any changes to make it that way it was more they took a while to actually explain what kept widow like that

[thorny hollow]

But I know still theres is 100% something going to invovle echo when it comes to omnic and AI lore(well duh, shes an omnic, but her predecessor aurora hint something grandscale about echo)

[wise grotto]

Echo technically isn’t an omnic she’s just an advanced learning ai who had a consciousness uploaded into herself

[thorny hollow]

Yeah

Omnic

Just explained an omnic again

Lol

[shrewd pivot]

Anubis god ai is currently held in containment in Egypt. Chernobog god ai was shut down according to "Overwatch De:Classified" lore book, but seems to be active in some way with Emre.

Echo was one of Mina's creations, but different from Aurora. Aurora's 'power' was that she was narratively important as the first sapient robot life, due to a quantum mechanics luck of the draw.

[thorny hollow]

Wait, if widow and some others left talon, whos gonna provide her medications and treatments?

[worthy rose]

I'm not being negative on the game, just pointing out that lately Blizzard has been dropping he ball with OW's lore. Simple criticism isn't the same as hating.

[thorny hollow]

Yeah, true

[worthy rose]

No one, she's on a timer. If this whole Talon thing isn't sorted soon, she'll start getting her emotions back.

[thorny hollow]

Omg

And her skin color back

Lol

[thorny hollow]

Wow but thats crazy, imagine a whole chbage to widow if not

[crisp canyon]

She is essentially in terms of how Overwatch views her in the lore and why she is like that, there were hints before back in ow she was aware of everything going on it wasn’t like she blindly lapsed in it all so it was questionable as to what she was exp feeling or why she stayed complicit but giving adding drugs in as to why she’s like this now takes away that, it feels lazy

[worthy rose]

Maybe not that, the drugs only effect her emotions I think.

Here's the link to the comic that talks about it:
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/vengeance-comes/

[thorny hollow]

Because of that though, Echo may be important in lore later due to her not exsctly being a sentient robot, but a sentient AI. Very different things, thats why I feel Echo holds huge lore changing potential, maybe even to stopping Chernobog, whenever his canon arc comes by

[shrewd pivot]

The... perhaps let's say /clarification/ of Widowmaker chosing to join Talon was made in ow2.

I think with this new lore about the drug reliance, it seems to me like Amelie was brainwashed to be a sleeper agent, killed Gerard, felt a high from the killing due to brainwashing, then chased Talon for more and inevitably began to rely on drugs. It seems more like an addict running back to a drug supplier, rather than Amelie truely "chosing" imo bc Amelie was brainwashed initially.

[thorny hollow]

Oh, I thought she got skin therapy with moira too

Widow doesnt need to breathe, thus her skin

Which makes her an awesome sniper

[worthy rose]

Her skin change is caused by cryo-therapy, don't remember how though.

[thorny hollow]

Right

Nvm then

I swear I saw she doesnt need to breathe due to Moira's 'gifts'

[shrewd pivot]

Pretty sure Widowmaker had her heart rate lowered to the point of blueing skin by Talon specifically, idk if its explicit Canon that Moira did it but Widowmaker does need to breathe

[crisp canyon]

She breathes her heart rate is slowed to a level oxygen doesn’t flow properly leaving her that color

[thorny hollow]

Ding ding ding, I meant this sorry lol

[shrewd pivot]

You're good!

[thorny hollow]

But without echo main bias, I feel like something is definitely missing with Echo

[shrewd pivot]

Suppresses memories, and keeps Widowmaker sharp.

[thorny hollow]

Only character thats sentient AI, others are sentient omnics

[worthy rose]

That makes since with her being a sniper. Real world snipers are known for taking heart meds that slow their heart rate to make their shots more accurate.

[worthy rose]

I don't think they suppress memories, Widowmaker dialog strongly hints she remembers everything. The drugs just help her not care.

[shrewd pivot]

Aurora IS a sapient ai. She's narratively the first sapient artificial lifeforms.

Echo did not receive the awakening, so it's up for debate if Echo is a advanced Chatgpt style learning ai, or actually sapient.

My hypothesis for Echo's story, is that Echo will eventually come to be a new sentient or sapient intelligence of her own kind, not awakened-omnic and not human, but a new entity entirely.

[thorny hollow]

That's what I think aswell, she preceded Aurora, and now even without awakening, shes more powerful than some of the omnics we see

And Echo AI has ALOT left to learn and engulf, so I cant imagine her not being her own type

Shes like the elephant in the room everyone ignores

[shrewd pivot]

https://youtu.be/suqIekAIvH4?si=CYLicLlRPOAktCGi
@3:00
"Amelie, the Widowmaker, She relies on a steady supply of drug formulations to maintain her skill and suppress bad memories"

[crisp canyon]

Did the lore ever explain how the eye in sombras character trailer is the same on emre

[brittle sky]

Sombra thinks it's the same, and the symbology is the same.

[worthy rose]

Okay, I just checked, can't find anything on cryo-therapy for Widowmaker on her page anymore (where I thought I first read it), it says now that the skin change is due to her slowed heart rate.

[crisp canyon]

So everything ties to Emre?

[thorny hollow]

Yeah its obvious, anything with slow heartbeat, skin changes due to bloodflow changes

So I see where cryo comes from

[shrewd pivot]

More like, Emre is being used by the eye conspiracy

[brittle sky]

Not everything, but he's a big new piece of things.

[crisp canyon]

Is like essentially the mc of ow now?

[brittle sky]

no

[thorny hollow]

I will try anything once 😉

[worthy rose]

More like, everything ties to what changed Emre.

[brittle sky]

there is no main character, and he's clearly more an antivillain or antihero (depending on the entity's goals and his ability to resist). He's just of lore significance.

[worthy rose]

If anyone's the MC of Overwatch it's Winston.

[wise grotto]

Echo isn’t actually sentient
Omnics are
Omnics aren’t ai after what the iris did

[shrewd pivot]

Junkers would like a word! /j

[shrewd pivot]

Semantics ik but:

Echo canonically is not an awakened omnic.

Awakened omnics canonically have free will and are sapient.

Every omnic/robot has ai, ai is software.

[brittle sky]

I mean... Echo (and Orisa if we want to bring in the 'unsentient' cast members) displays free will.

[shrewd pivot]

We've been over this (as in, not to rehash to you Coarse!), but for those unaware:
There's a difference between Chatgpt looking like it has free will, vs a sapient being like Aurora canonically actually having free will.

There is no hard canon stating Echo and Orisa are sapient/sentient on par with awakened omnics, so it's up for debate. It's ultimately speculation on if Echo/Orisa is or is not sapient

[brittle sky]

certainly, don't want to retread

just throwing semantics on your semantics

[shrewd pivot]

Echo and Orisa display signs* of free will but it's not confirmed canon one way or the other yeah /friendly

[grave saddle]

It was scientists who gave Aurora sapience and who managed to build the device to give her gift to omnics. Reasonably, scientists could make a robot with Aurora’s free will again as far as we are aware right? It’s not like they used something that can’t be used anymore

The lead scientist was a lead in her field ofc, but a decent amount of time has passed then. Tech gets better and so does information. If anything surely it should be easier now than it was then

[shrewd pivot]

It is unknown how to specifically recreate Aurora bc it was a 'miracle' of quantum mechanics (but laws were made to ban certain kinds of ai after the omnic crisis regardless), the scientists are unsure what exactly happened during the Awakening as well, but Mina later states she could have found a way to preserve Aurora AND do the awakening had they more time.

Source: Genesis animated shorts, and the one text story with Mina and Echo

[peak escarp]

Aurora was a one-time fluke that they haven't been able to replicate - Dr. Liao spent the rest of her life trying and the closest she got was Echo

[shrewd pivot]

Well put!
Tho, closest Mina was ALLOWED to get, as laws were made limiting the kinds of ai Mina could create

[peak escarp]

true, there was that as well

world governments were a little threatened by the possibility of creating new sentient life

[shrewd pivot]

Especially so after the 1st omnic crisis

[grave saddle]

Ah okay interesting. Didn’t know it was a fluke. Unlikely Orisa and echo are then but it would be cool if they could be. Feels almost weird saying they don’t have “souls” lol

[shrewd pivot]

I'd like to believe Ghost in the shell influenced this lore(multiple references from Zenyatta sprays to Aurora imagery/plotline), as well as warforged from DnD (omnics are very much scifi warforged in a way).

Both explore purpose on life, and if souls matter, etc

[grave saddle]

They have the same free will as torbs turrets

[worthy rose]

Orisa has something called a "personality module" that was made by Efi. I assume it must be similar to what Snowball (Mei's robot) has.

[peak escarp]

another unexplained fluke is Bastion - he should not have been able to receive the Awakening, on account of being a warbot that supposedly lacked the necessary structures, and yet somehow did become sapient

Torbjorn is baffled by this

[grave saddle]

Yeah I knew about that but I guess it’s kinda hard to distinguish her personality module to auroras from just how they act

[worthy rose]

Yeah, Blizzard hasn't really gone into the differences of the two yet.

[grave saddle]

Like the scientists would have given aurora a personality module assuredly. But this “fluke” just gave aurora control of their own software essentially

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. Imo it might imply that all Bastion units were awakened but the wartime stimulus (shots, etc) triggered the Anubis programming that Bastion struggled with in his cinematc. If Bastion had been awoken mid battle with gunshots occuring, Bastion most likely would have been triggered into Anubis protocols. It's the non war time and Ganymede directing Bastion away that ultimately saved Bastion 🥺

[worthy rose]

I can't remember where, but I remember one bit of lore hinting that Sombra had something to do with Bastion coming back online.

[shrewd pivot]

Really? I don't recall this

[peak escarp]

Bastion had a small part in the Sombra ARG

but I don't think Sombra was involved in his awakening

[worthy rose]

From what I remember, Sombra was going through Bastion's databanks and accidently triggered him coming back online.

She didn't have anything to do with him gaining free will.

[peak escarp]

Bastion came online alone in a forest

[shrewd pivot]

Speaking of robots,

The new lore about dropping an emp against gwishin, do you think D.MON will have something to do with that?

I didn't really think about it much, but ig some of the MEKA squad mechs might be able to go into extremely deep pressure waters.

[crisp canyon]

Ganymede brought bastion back online by continually pecking at bastion similar to how ppl use to hit tvs until they worked

[shrewd pivot]

LOL yeah.
Sad idea: Ganymede was checking if that robot shape moved at all, considering Ganymede was making a nest and maybe learned that "check suspiciously shaped robot thing" behavior from birds that remember the crisis (crows pass down behavior through generations for example)

[crisp canyon]

Idk about emp but based on concept art it looks like dmon is getting the plasma blade the or15s had in the rein cinema

[peak escarp]

it probably thought Bastion was a tree and was checking the structural stability of the "tree" before making its nest

[shrewd pivot]

True!

[crisp canyon]

I’m talking about in game ability, I don’t think blizzard is introducing another character with hack until we finally see the final Sombra rework

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I don't think D.MON would have a hack either! Just mentioning where the emp was mentioned, pardon I misunderstood "Idk about Emp" as "idk where that is from"

I meant, I wonder if D.MON will be involved with the emp mission, it seems like delivering a single use soecialized emp bomb to a location in the deep sea, so I wonder if D.MON's mech can withstand deep sea pressure

[worthy rose]

Do you think the Mech pilots will all be tanks?
I always wondered if the Mech characters would be different classes, so you could have a full Mech team line up. With how big they are though, probably not.

[crisp canyon]

Yes they’re big

[peak escarp]

I'm rereading the short story where Torbjorn is analysing Bastion, and I found where Torbjorn switches from "it" to "he"

[shrewd pivot]

Well, Overlord was the MEKA support, so if they add him it wouldn't be all tanks imo

[crisp canyon]

We also probably aren’t getting the full team just dmon

[peak escarp]

brought it to bear, ready to lean into the job at hand. All I had to do now was
press the trigger and it would be over!
And then Bastion turned.
He didn’t activate his weapons. He didn’t take up a defensive posture. He
didn’t try to avoid me. He just . . . turned.```

I could see his optic sensors searching me. Studying my face as I stood there,
dumbfounded. The rivet gun fell from my grasp. A feeling came over me. And for
the first time in a long while, I felt . . . ashamed.
I know now . . . Bastion is different. I’m the one who needs to change.```

it really is a good short story

[worthy rose]

Where is this from? I've only ever read the Binary comic.

Seriously if I'm missing out on lore I need to know and catch up.

[peak escarp]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/torbjorn/

[worthy rose]

Thank you!

[shrewd pivot]

I still find it very endearing how Torbjörn eventually adopted Bastion in, I like Torbjörn's anti-omnic to not anti-omnic arc, it shows that being anti-omnic is often about the person's own issues being projected, not the actual omnic's fault.

Sometimes family can be you the genius inventor, your genius wife, a ton of kids, a ton of cats, a knightly Godfather, and your newly adopted sapient war machine and his bestie named Ganymede

I can't wait for a Bastion and Jetpack cat interaction tho lol I will laugh if Bastion hisses at Fika bc she's eyeing Ganymede

[crisp canyon]

I mentioned the other day about blizzard having twin sisters added to the game and then I found sojourn has a twin thru dialogue with ahran

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Sojourn having a twin sister really showcases how different of a life trajectory Sojourn has had due to her autoimmune disease, this is explored a bit in Sojourn's long novel

[bold fern]

theory

the guantlet used in the vendetta fight isnt the original guantlet, and akande most likely has the original, stronger guantlet stashed somewhere, he intentionally uses the weaker guantlet so he it dosent look like hes relying on "the strongest" weapon in the world, trying to keep himself less rusty as mauga commented, he probably took that to heart. and we all know akande loves a challenge no matter the outcome.

Akande's family also owns a prosthetic company so its not impossible for him to have a closet of guantlets stashed, first image was Akande fighting his mentor, Adeyemi (who is wearing the original guantlet) and akande won with a typical prosthetic arm.

what does this mean for doom? it means he dosent need to "reclaim" his guantlet and will be back with the original, stronger one in the rematch.

[spare fox]

spitballing/brainstorming here
Doomfist realizes that he's no longer the strongest, so he seeks out another apprentice to train up to take down Vendetta, this apprentice gets power-hungry and as all doomfists do, kills Doomfist and takes his gauntlet for themselves

over the course of an arc

[wise grotto]

His ow2 design is also much more “royal” or arrogant looking
The gold highlighting tassles fancy details literal fur thing around his neck partially
He’s actively looks less like a soldier and more like a general with an outfit not as combat centered

[brittle sky]

if overlord becomes a character it's speculated he could be support, and casino and king seem fast and aggressive so some people think dps (though they're still both bigger than d.va's mech), but yeah, size is an issue given d.va is the smallest.

[brittle sky]

would be wild to reveal doomfist is alive after being deposed by a new character, only for his arc to be him getting deposed and now killed by another new character.

[spare fox]

if it was a long enough arc, it wouldn't be so bad

[bold fern]

and generals dont typically get sent to war but rather commands their troops, leading to akande being rusty since he never been in action for awhile.

[bold fern]

would it be funny if vendetta uses the doomfist vs doomfist haha

[brittle sky]

fundamentally comes down to trying to shoo off doomfist, who remains a villain with an interesting set of motives. I don't think just because whatever power scaling he needs to be taken out of the narrative.

[spare fox]

yes, and it also plays well into his conflict/survival of the fittest theme. Simply the most corrupt and cutthroat winning when it's done for evil

[brittle sky]

we got much in the way of aatlis lore? I know there's talk oasis is helping them construct some kind of panopticon with Helix, but don't recall the details there.

[civic lynx]

The only aatlis thing I can find on the wiki is a person linked to oasis lives there

[gusty cloak]

who is franky? I saw some people saying that one of the teased hero silhouttes ( one with the flying creature hovering over their arm ) might be either efi or franky

[civic lynx]

https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Frankie she’s a deadlock gang member who uses a drone and has hacking skills

Definitely continuing the trend of the new heroes this year basically being replacements for older OW1 characters

Assuming she keeps the hacking capabilities she will be a better Sombra

[dry pebble]

What does Doomfist mean by his Chicken joke

"to stagnate is to die"

[crisp canyon]

Doom is still alive, I’m a firm believer in the theory he’s found by omnic monks and it will lead to him being more of a martial monk type of character rather than just punch jump slam guy who’s very aggressive

[brittle sky]

I mean, the man is a martial arts champion of his nigerian tradition. Why drop that to draw from the trope already touched by zen and to a lesser extent ram?

[crisp canyon]

They are not adding another hacker

[sand veldt]

Bro I only just found out about the venture line with reaper

I fucking love it

[civic lynx]

Hacking seems to be a big part of who she is

[sand veldt]

“That’s your nickname right?”

SOMBRAAAAA

[civic lynx]

I think they’ll keep it but make it less annoying than sombra’s

Probably just hacking a target slows/does damage over time or something rather than stopping ability usage which bronze-plat players throw a fit over

[sand veldt]

I’d like this

I do believe his death is setting him up for another rework

But like

[crisp canyon]

Hacking is the most controversial ability they’ve ever added unless the Sombra rework is next season I don’t see another hacker getting added before the original is fixed

[sand veldt]

Why are they reworking him again?

[civic lynx]

IMO sombra’s rework is somewhere between s4-s6

[brittle sky]

I mean, it being frankie remains far less convincing to me than it being the helix security chief. The latter got a whole tablet hyping up their arrival. The latter is just a name from a book that got a shout out in local grafitti, and whose one description specifically contradicts the silhouette

[civic lynx]

She’ll be reworked with all the other heroes they plan to later this year

[sand veldt]

I suck at him but even I can get some good value with an ok team

[crisp canyon]

This combined together makes him the ultimate martial artist and probably will move back ti dps tbh

[sand veldt]

We need more tanks bro :(

[civic lynx]

Doom being moved to dps is very very likely imo

[sand veldt]

Hope we get another male tank soon

[crisp canyon]

We know that but the chance of another hacker getting added before sombras rework is unlikely

[civic lynx]

People to this day still beg for him to return there and I think it would make sense to finally listen now they have the chance

[brittle sky]

wait a couple years

[sand veldt]

The only role that doesn’t have a ninja character is tank

[crisp canyon]

Because ninjas aren’t tanks

[civic lynx]

A ninja tank makes no sense

[sand veldt]

And a ninja healer does?

[civic lynx]

They’re meant to be fast and stealthy meanwhile every tank is the size of a small town

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[sand veldt]

Probably lol

[brittle sky]

its not like the droubt has been particularly bad - we got a male tank right before the latest tank. We just got skipped on tank in 2025

[sand veldt]

Hazard, right?

I love hazard

Hope he becomes more central in the lore soon

[civic lynx]

Yes hazard was the last male tank in 2024

[twilit patrol]

Apparently it’ll be in the middle of the year

[brittle sky]

he's one of the few parts of the cast who could reasonably oppose neo ow who isn't part of marzy b's villain merger extravaganza, so maybe.

[sand veldt]

Neo ow?

Also what does hazard have against Mercy

[civic lynx]

The reformed ow we have now with Winston and soj as leaders

[sand veldt]

With that voice line where she offers to examine him

And he goes “examine all you like. won’t undo the harm you’ve caused”

[brittle sky]

he blames his injuries on overwatch (because they were caused by an ow jet crash), and she's an ow doctor

[crisp canyon]

Hazards lore is a little conflicting here blamed Overwatch for what he is but when he’s offered a solution to help him he takes pride in what he is now

[brittle sky]

he got into modulation, but that doesn't make the original injuries that made them necessary okay.

[crisp canyon]

I’m not saying it made it okay but it’s contradictory to hate them then refuse help from mercy and say you like what you are now

While simultaneously blaming them

It could’ve been written better imo

[brittle sky]

nah. He sorted out a solution for himself, and he likes what he did with it.
Doesn't mean he would trust overwatch to make it better, much less accept any help from them.

Also, throwing money and medicine at someone to fix a problem you made in the first place doesn't make you square. She's notably not even offering to fix it. She's just saying she wants to do an examination.

Mercy: Given the injuries you've sustained... you must be in an immense amount of pain.
Hazard: Let me guess: you want to poke and prod, make it all go away?
Mercy: Well, an examination certainly couldn't hurt.
Hazard: Examine all you like. It won't mend the harm you've done.

[crisp canyon]

If blizzcon is in August this year and dmon is releasing in August what are the chances we get a cinematic for her

[edgy meadow]

high

[civic lynx]

BlizzCon is September 😭

I think it’ll be like a week or 2 before S4’s mid season patch

[crisp canyon]

Oh is it I thought it was in August

My b

[sand veldt]

If yall could have hazard meet someone in a real cinematic

[sand veldt]

Who would it be

And why

[civic lynx]

Notice the OW rep is doom 👀

[sand veldt]

Yeah and he has his hand back

[crisp canyon]

If doom rework and reveal he’s alive comes to before December I wouldn’t be upset

[civic lynx]

I think BlizzCon will reveal he’s alive and the rework

[crisp canyon]

Maybe blizzcon is where we get to see all the reworks

[sand veldt]

He still looks pretty tanky there

[civic lynx]

Based on current leaks and rumours the main BlizzCon announcement will be a starcraft PvE/hero shooter, so they may not reveal the other 2 ow heroes there but we still get more lore

[sand veldt]

All the reworks?

How many are there?

[civic lynx]

I don’t think we know for certain but they said at spotlight many of the older ow1 heroes will be redone

[crisp canyon]

We don’t have an exact number i believe, Sombra is confirmed others are speculating like reaper

[civic lynx]

Sombra is the only one they confirmed like last August to be having a rework

[crisp canyon]

I think hog getting a rework or even Orisa is possible tbh for tanks

[civic lynx]

I can definitely see one for hog

Idk about orisa but I wouldn’t be against one

Rein needs a rework or buffs

[crisp canyon]

I wouldn’t be suprised if spin got replaced with shield permanently

But weaver for supports feels like a lock for rework I can’t think of anyone else really for reworks on that role but I play limited on that role

[civic lynx]

I think moira might have a rework since they tried and failed to do it last year/2024

[crisp canyon]

What did they rework?

[civic lynx]

They only did them internally so we don’t know for certain

They said moira and reaper were both undergoing testing with reworks

[sand veldt]

Why would they rework reaper?

[civic lynx]

But they failed and were scrapped

[sand veldt]

Isn’t he balanced?

[civic lynx]

Reaper is considered too slow and outdated compared to faster dive heroes

The rework they tried and failed a year or so ago internally was built to speed him up

[sand veldt]

Ah

Bro it’s genji that needs a rework

[crisp canyon]

It goes back to 2023 when they said they wanted to give him an ability to be more frontline i believe, but that might’ve just been what volley turned into

[civic lynx]

They probably want him more in line with tracer/vendetta’s aggression and speed rather than slow and loud

[sand veldt]

Bro is crippled unless you’re a sweat fest on him

[crisp canyon]

Genji is fine imo

[civic lynx]

Genji sucks bc they keep adding/buffing beam or flight heroes

That’s not really his fault

He’s meant to be a close range pest but he’s not able to do that when he gets packed up by beam heroes

[crisp canyon]

I think Moira is fine 2 I feel like they’re gonna heavily cater to the Moira should be healbotting crowd

[civic lynx]

I think a rework for moira should make her just take more skill

As a moira main myself she is very braindead to play

[crisp canyon]

I don’t think heroes need reworks to take more skill

[civic lynx]

Tbh that’s the only reason to rework her

[crisp canyon]

Moira is one the characters I feel is consistently balanced

[civic lynx]

She’s meant to be a healbot that can do decent enough damage to protect herself if dived and she does that well but it makes her lack skill

Give her some form of utility and remove her lock on aim

[crisp canyon]

Absolutely not

[civic lynx]

As long as she has lock on aim she’s gonna be hated and it makes her easy af 😭🙏🏽