lore-discussion

[elfin patio]

lol i never even realised he was just a guy until now

i always thought of him as the wise monk

[shrewd pivot]

He is!

[elfin patio]

never realized he may have a past and everything

[shrewd pivot]

But it's also "just some guy" + "mysterious wise monk" in a very playful fun way in writing

[elfin patio]

yeah

that's really nice of overwatch

btw, i have a question

what happened to the whole PvE project? Ramattra as main villain, Zennyatta captured

I heard it got cancelled

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it was canceled. Story is proceeding forward, unknown if they completely scrapped the unreleased PVE plot points or will weave them in later now that overwatch will have yearly story arcs going forward

[elfin patio]

why ?

[peak escarp]

you missed my point

but whatever

[elfin patio]

it was one of the good things overwatch 2 brought and they dumped it lol

[peak escarp]

yeah

they should at least tell us what was going to happen

and share the stuff that was mostly finished

[elfin patio]

like

ramattra is a good villain

the type of villain to fit in a animated series

a really good character, well designed, written

it feels like if they had completely dumped him overnight

overwatch's always suddenly forgetting about things and it makes me mad

[shrewd pivot]

The point that it's not that deep? I fully agree JPC was added in as a shallow meme. My point is that I think it's bad writing/quality and I would hope for overwatch to maintain quality levels if not improve quality. I want more fun lore characters like Sigma, Ramattra, JunkerQueen, etc. If we get more Wuyangs(botched Wuxing/Wuxia writing) and JPCs(botched creative integration) that would suck.

[viral pilot]

Truee

[peak escarp]

that was not the point I was making

[elfin patio]

you guys remember when someone from the dev team of overwatch 1 said indirectly said they could add playable characters that are already dead in-world, in that discussion relating to Gerard (Widowmaker's Husband)

[peak escarp]

when did they say that?

[elfin patio]

and then they never added a single one dead in-world playable character 💀

[hollow oar]

yeah i hope we never get characters written like wuyang again 😭 him going to Water College™ (dont forget, his sister goes to Fire College™) and having water powers seems so bland

[elfin patio]

A long time ago

I think it was during the time Hamster launched

Doomfist was already there too

[peak escarp]

Kaplan said they weren't against killing off a playable character, but i don't recall them saying they'd add anyone who was already dead

[hollow oar]

i kind of understand this decision, one reason is could you imagine how tough it would be to write interactions between canonically living and canonically dead characters? thats probably a pretty minute reason compared to some other stuff, but still

[elfin patio]

It could be that one line that I'm refering to, but I gotta search it up first

[shrewd pivot]

Imagine my suprise when the Talon stealing ilios artifacts thread that sat there for YEARS ended up being yet another done and dumped idea of Venture getting the anubis artifact and nothing coming of it. I hope the anubis artifact has significance sooner than later lol

[elfin patio]

that's basically ana, soldier and reaper talking to each other

Anyway, they were indirectly teasing Gerard as a playable character, even though he is long dead

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah tho it would be harder to write if it was a death that occured long ago, characters would be stuck as past versions of themselves interacting with then living (now dead) hero

[elfin patio]

Which would be dope in my opinion

Since this was always a grey spot in the lore

[peak escarp]

grey spot?

[hollow oar]

that as well ^^ thats why i feel like killing off a current playable character would be a bad idea, even though i still think there's a chance blizzard kills someone off regardless

[elfin patio]

Yeah

[shrewd pivot]

I don't know what your point was then, pardon. Since it seems like to want to change the topic tho, I won't ask further. Sorry /genuine

[elfin patio]

Since he survived many attempts of assassination by Talon, most of them bombings, saved Reaper from death once, was ahead of Talon investigations and we still don't have much details about his relationship with Ana, for example

[shrewd pivot]

Grey area?

[elfin patio]

We don't even know how was his death

[peak escarp]

his wife killed him in his sleep

2 weeks after she was rescued from Talon

since they specified "in his sleep", my guess is she smothered or strangled him

[shrewd pivot]

I remember when people were theorizing Maximilien was a digital copy of Gerard's brain before Maximilien lore was released lol those were the days

[elfin patio]

Yeah, but was it ever shown or comented on ?

Gerard survived many attempts on his life by Talon

many buildings bombings

[peak escarp]

it's a bit dark to show a woman murder her husband in cold blood

[elfin patio]

?

that's a really ignorant thing to say in a universe like overwatch

[peak escarp]

Overwatch doesn't really show dark topics

[elfin patio]

that's untrue

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf characters have survived worse situations by faking deaths, but my guess is that Gerard is actually dead since Widowmaker's arc has her as a femme fatale and she's shown killing Mondatta

[elfin patio]

ana's backstory?

the whole shooting her trough the eye?

mondatta's assassination ?

[peak escarp]

she didn't get shot through the eye

[elfin patio]

💀

[peak escarp]

Mondatta's assassination was shown with a lot of cuts

[elfin patio]

Nah mate

I don't know why ur doing it but your just negating stuff

don't wanna others to be right or something

[peak escarp]

Widowmaker's shot hit Ana's scope, and the shrapnel hit her eye

[elfin patio]

Overwatch's shown us Reaper killing Antonio right in front of us in cold blood

[peak escarp]

they cut away

[elfin patio]

Then recently they peaked the body lying and his daughter crying

[peak escarp]

showed him falling out the window

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I gotta disagree there. Genesis showed bastion units storming a beach and firing on families. Ramattra origin short and texts. Sojourn's novel is very brutal.

I do agree showing Gerard's dead body is probably too much for ow1, but ow2 just showed Antonio's dead body in a tactful way so it's not completely unreasonable to question Gerard's situation.

I personally think Gerard is dead, but regardless.

[elfin patio]

and ?

[elfin patio]

that don't matter

it's a dark topic

[peak escarp]

not Gerard's dead body

Gerard being actively murdered by the woman he loves

that would be too much for a Teen rating

[elfin patio]

💀

The negating is crazy

when one of the most populars characters got bludgeoned so bad by his own brother he lost his own body and had to live trough machines

[shrewd pivot]

And Mondatta being assassinated in a crowd of adoring fans is ok?
I think showing a femme fatale trope in tactful ways isn't exactly outside T rating.

[elfin patio]

he lost his own JAW

genji has no jaw you know ?

that's a really, really silly thing to say

the whole assassination of Gerard is indeed in a grey spot

[peak escarp]

and have they shown us that fight?

[shrewd pivot]

I think Gerard is dead because Widowmaker's lore says that was her first thrill kill, plus femme fatale archetype, and later assassinations.

[elfin patio]

they have shown us the aftermath

a lot of genji artworks, skins, concepts

[peak escarp]

they have shown us the aftermath of Gerard's death

Widowmaker

[elfin patio]

a recent skin that confirmed the fact that he has no jaw at all

even because we always thought he just had that blackwatch hellmet in his jaw, not the whole jaw completely cut off

and that's pretty brutal mate, nobody can deny that

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf "no onscreen dead body no death" is used to justify Doomfist still being alive, so the same logic applied to Gerard isn't unfair.

There are other reasons for Gerard to actually be dead, tho.

[elfin patio]

Yeah I don't think there's actually anything pointing that he is still alive

I think he is indeed capped

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist? Absolutely not he references star wars with the pitfall and in star wars no body = no death lol. Vendetta has sith star wars inspo

[elfin patio]

nah, i meant gerard

[shrewd pivot]

Oh yeah for sure, Gerard is most likely actually dead imo

[peak escarp]

also, we don't know how much of Genji's cyborg body was the result of injuries from his fight with Hanzo and how much of it was elective upgrades after the fact

[elfin patio]

But it profoundly intrigues me how a man that survived >a series< of assassinations attempts, with the whole bombings and shit, suddenly is dead by the hands of a single assassin, in his own house

It always intrigued me

[elfin patio]

It's pretty clear that in the Blackwatch skin, all the body parts we can't actually see are bionic

Only exception may be his face, that is completely fucked up but still there

[shrewd pivot]

Fair. He used to have a human arm in Blackwatch skin after all, and now Genji seems to have two prosthetic arms. I have to say tho, probably not a fun elective surgery to get jaw reconstruction tho. Would be very sad if Genji gave up entire senses (Sojourn says prosthesis isn't as vivid sensation) like taste just for a more punch resistant jaw.

[elfin patio]

And the other exception was the jaw

As we thought he had it

Which, again, is brutal that Genji has no jaw at all

[peak escarp]

he has a jaw

a metal one

[elfin patio]

Which is total bananas

total crazy

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf it might have been jaw reconstruction

Like a smashed human jaw replaced with a metal jaw

[peak escarp]

would explain his robotic voice

[shrewd pivot]

:( that's so sad dang... poor genji

[elfin patio]

I still haven't recovered from the confirmation btw

Like I never realized how brutal was the fight

How could a elder brother do all this to a sibling

That's probably why he always thought Genji was dead

Since Hanzo got his sword right into Genji's face and cut off his whole jaw

I would think he was seriously dead too

[shrewd pivot]

Assuming Hanzo used the dragon, well.... yeah. If no anima tech weaponry was used, that's even worse to do it personally with only bow/fist

[peak escarp]

again, I don't think Hanzo cut his jaw off

[elfin patio]

I think it may be the dragons and the sword

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Genji would have bled out immediately if so, it was most likely smashed and replaced in blaclwatch or simply a later upgrade after blackwatch

[elfin patio]

It's pretty confirmed in lore mate

[peak escarp]

no

it's confirmed that he has a metal jaw

not how he acquired the metal jaw

[elfin patio]

The Blackwatch skin pretty much confirms it

[peak escarp]

like Ultra said, maybe his jaw got smashed and needed to be reconstructed

[elfin patio]

Since the Blackwatch is the first state he's shown up after having been reconstruted by Mercy

[peak escarp]

"Hanzo cut his jaw off" is not the only way for him to end up with a metal jaw

[shrewd pivot]

Ah right, they did use swords mbmb. Basically, not using the dragon would be way more brutal/personal.
Scary situation either way

[shrewd pivot]

The possibilities are:
Jaw was cut off

Jaw was smashed, so he got a metal jaw

Jaw was in tact, and the metal jaw was a later upgrade like his left arm becoming cybernetic was

It's not confirmed Hanzo cut off Genji’s jaw, and imo it's unlikely considering that would have Genji immediately bleed out to death

More likely, Genji’s jaw was heavily damaged but not fully cut off, then replaced with a metal jaw

[elfin patio]

the latter ain't really a possibility

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I doubt Genji’s jaw was fully unharmed, but since an arm survived it's not technically impossible so I listed it

[elfin patio]

before the most recent skin showing his face state,we always thought genji was just having this whole covering his fucked up face thing

but the recent skin confirmed, there was never even a jaw there

it was never intact

[shrewd pivot]

I personally headcanoned overwatch Genji with a metal jaw before the skin reveal, the only confirmation we had for overwatch genji was skin around his eyes iirc

[shrewd pivot]

Assuming he didn't get changes between blackwatch and that skin, yes his human jaw was replaced with a metal one

[elfin patio]

It's like 100% confirmation that Hanzo was the one who damaged the jaw

if he cut it off or just got it fucked up, doesn't really matter

but it would be way more brutal if he indeed cut it off

and that's probably what happened

[peak escarp]

we didn't see Genji's jaw in the Blackwatch skin

it was covered

so it could have been intact

[elfin patio]

mate

the new skin

confirmed

it

no jaw

it's a fact

[peak escarp]

the new skin only confirms that Genji currently has a metal jaw

[elfin patio]

nop

[peak escarp]

the Blackwatch skin is how he appeared 12 years ago

[elfin patio]

the new skin

shows genji without metal in his head

[peak escarp]

yes, in present day

[elfin patio]

and it shows a face without a jaw

which means there is no jaw

[peak escarp]

that's not how he looked during the Venice mission

[shrewd pivot]

For sure.

But there are major arteries in that area, a person could easily die in less than a few minutes.

[elfin patio]

in the blackwatch skin, he had a metal jaw hiding the absence ofthe jaw

[peak escarp]

this art from Declassified shows he has a flesh jaw

[elfin patio]

that's been uncannonized by the new skin

and was always a concept artwork btw

[peak escarp]

both can be correct

[elfin patio]

crazy stuff

mercy really did saved genji from death

[peak escarp]

that was not a concept art, it was artwork in a published book of lore

[elfin patio]

it's said hanzo was a even better swordsman than genji

[shrewd pivot]

It's not that it COULDN'T be the case, it's about explicit canon.

The only explicit canon is the new overwatch skin confirming genji at that moment has a metal jaw. Did he have a metal jaw in Blackwatch? Maybe! But no explicit canon says that yet.

I personally would assume he had a messed up jaw and got it replaced with a metal one in blackwatch, but nothing explicitly confirms it

[peak escarp]

explicit canon (the image I posted from Declassified) says Genji still had a flesh jaw after his fight with Hanzo

[elfin patio]

that's dated information, no longer canon

the skin is the canon

[peak escarp]

my guy

[elfin patio]

and there is no other reason given to us as to why genji would ever suddenly loose his jaw if not in the battle against hanzo

[peak escarp]

the skin is not retroactive

cybernetic upgrades

there's your reason

Sojourn got plenty

maybe she talked Genji into some

[elfin patio]

that's just malabarism

trying to make things out just so you won't admit it

doesn't even makes sense

why would he chop off his own jaw

[peak escarp]

what you're saying doesn't make sense

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, at that time he was explicitly flesh.
I meant that he probably had issues with his jaw and then got it replaced with a metal one. Much more punch resistant. Or, maybe it's some kind of later upgrade without medical need which would be bleak but fit Genji’s story still.

[elfin patio]

what i'm saying is simple and makes sense

hanzo fucked genji's jaw

genji lost the jaw

then got a metal jaw over it

we never knew that

we always assumed his face was ugly but still in form

[wooden drift]

Wow, thats even dumber subject to argue about...

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, de:Classified is explicit canon, the new skin just adds to the lore not retcons it

[elfin patio]

the new skin confirmed: genji has no jaw at all

[peak escarp]

so if I lost a tooth, that means it was always lost and I never had it

[elfin patio]

i think this is the arguing channel and i love it

because rn i have no better things to do

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting

[minor sapphire]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[elfin patio]

i love arguing about shit i care about

[elfin patio]

why would you think i'm saying that

that doesn't even makes sense

lol

[wheat maple]

Surely I am not the only one who doesn't think these new skins are 100% canon?

[wooden drift]

How genji's metal jaw is the thing you care about?

[elfin patio]

now that's a argument

they could not be canon

but i think it's way more rad that genji really lost his jaw

[wooden drift]

Unless they'll shown in the cinematic or comic, nuh

[peak escarp]

I should have known you were a troll

[elfin patio]

?

even if i was a troll, i'm presenting solid argumentation

you can't even follow simple logic

[wooden drift]

Nuh, not really

[elfin patio]

genji is the one

[peak escarp]

I can't follow your logic because you have none

[wooden drift]

Like cybernetic is very common thing in overwatch and he could've just put the metal on his chin for no reason later

[elfin patio]

that's fine to me

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I am hoping the new skins are more like a theme amd not 100% Canon bc that Moira midriff style feels so ooc lol

[elfin patio]

i wish i could send images

[shrewd pivot]

Not true. De:Classified shows Genji has a flesh Jaw in Blackwatch. The new skin shows Genji has a metal jaw in current day. The new skin does not retcon Declassified. It just suggests between that de:classified moment in Blackwatch vs this current moment with new skin, Genji had his jaw replaced with metal.

[peak escarp]

the two appearances are different points on the timeline, roughly 14 years apart

a lot can happen in 14 years

[elfin patio]

that's so duuumb

i won't discuss any further because finally i have something else to do

[shrewd pivot]

And hell, maybe Hanzo DID slice off Genji’s jaw and it was reattached or something to have his jaw be flesh in the de:classified blackwatch moment, but explicit canon does nothing to conform such a hypothesis

All that is explicit canon, is that Genji had his jaw made metal between that blackwatch moment and the new skin moment.

[elfin patio]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/1qxd70j/did_hanzo_literally_cut_genjis_jaw_off/?show=original

there's it

a whole thread about people already remonting the facts

and the skin

genji vs hanzo

genji loses his jaw

the jaw is remade by mercy

then the cibernetic jaw is hidden away by the metal jaw in blackwatch skin

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, that's what he looks like "current" day. He has a metal jaw.

De:classified was set in the past years ago and this is what Genji looked like in the past.

[elfin patio]

latter genji skins also hide the absence of his jaw

[elfin patio]

also that's a mask

not really showing his full face

[elfin patio]

a mask indeed

[shrewd pivot]

It shows his full face, it's probably hard to see his lip line when it is small

[elfin patio]

that's what you are saying

since you guys are getting to what's canon and what not

where are the official lines that confirms that is indeed a human jaw ?

💀

i got right there

facts

that he has no human jaw

[elfin patio]

a in-game skin

[shrewd pivot]

The Declassified art depicts a human face, not a metal jaw

[elfin patio]

and still you would't see it

[elfin patio]

click right here

you'll find a cibernetic jaw

[peak escarp]

a reddit thread is not canon evidence

[elfin patio]

the image

is more canon evidence than a concept artwork

[shrewd pivot]

Sorry, let me rephrase.

Blackwatch genji here has a flesh Jaw.

New skin has a metal jaw.

The mask he is wearing in Blackwatch image is an oxygen mask, it is see through.

[elfin patio]

Dope

[shrewd pivot]

Therefore, explicit canon is that blackwatch genji at that point had a flesh Jaw. This new skin implies he had it upgraded to a metal jaw later on.

[shrewd pivot]

Sorry for the confusion

[elfin patio]

This doesn't makes sense

[peak escarp]

it's a timeline of Genji's appearance

[elfin patio]

Overwatch-agent Genji wouldn't just suddenly lose his own jaw and never talk about this life changing event,

[peak escarp]

well, I should add his default looks in there too

but whatever

[wheat maple]

He could have damaged his jaw while in Blackwatch.

[elfin patio]

This doesn't makes sense at all

[wheat maple]

Who knows

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, I don't even like the canon design choice myself, but that IS explicit canon. It DOES make sense.

[elfin patio]

Really? the one jaw he's always using a metal protector ?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's a possibility too.

[elfin patio]

Yall doing too much

[wheat maple]

Oh yes, there's no weapons in this universe that can go through metal how could I forget

[shrewd pivot]

It's about recording explicit canon lore, not if we like the design/writing decisions.

[peak escarp]

I think we've humored the troll for long enough

[elfin patio]

💀

So you admit you are just humoring me and you guys don't really believe in all that bullshit ?

That's nice to hear

[shrewd pivot]

Idk if its trolling or if it's a foriegn language gap. Sometimes people who come from different areas or speak English as a secondary language phrase sentences differently. "It doesn't make sense" might be like "wow! Really?" Not that it's inaccurate

[shrewd pivot]

No, it's explicit canon that genji had these appearances.

[elfin patio]

dude

[shrewd pivot]

Hi :)

[elfin patio]

All I said is that I love arguing about useless shit like this

Because I care about Genji

Never said I was trolling once

But this is, indeed, a useless argument

I'm only still arguing because I'm entertained indeed

[shrewd pivot]

I personally wished Genji had a more intricate metal jaw design but basic cheek skin ig facilitates eating.

[peak escarp]

that's called trolling

[elfin patio]

If you say so buddy

Anyway

It's obvious

The new skin is giving us more information about Genji's past

It's saying

Genji has no jaw, he lost he jaw and it got replaced by a bionic one

[shrewd pivot]

Please don't troll, I am autistic and I WILL take you seriously bc I can't read the cues pls have mercy im just tryin to have a nice time

[elfin patio]

There's a straight line separating his jaw and the part he loose from the fight

[elfin patio]

Not trolling buddy

But as I said I don't take this seriously beucase it's not a serious or important discussion

We are talking about the jaw of a fictional character

So I don't care

[elfin patio]

But that don't mean I don't mean what I'm saying

[shrewd pivot]

The side parts having a gap kind of suggest it 'retracts' back imo? Like an Ironman mask

[brittle sky]

Oh boy are we fighting over canon based on a declassified image and a skin of uncertain canon status.

[shrewd pivot]

Nah we chillin

[elfin patio]

It's fun

[shrewd pivot]

Please don't troll

[elfin patio]

Dude

It's the last time I'll say I'm not trolling

[brittle sky]

Mordred said the discussion was fun. Not that they're trolling

[shrewd pivot]

Ok fair

[elfin patio]

If you guys have so much fear of trolls you should take it up to a doctors or something

not my fault

[elfin patio]

yeah

Tbh I don't even know what you guys are saying anymore

And I suspect you guys too don't know what I'm saying

That's just how meaningless discussions go

Which's the fun part

[viral pilot]

Has there been anything said about the other five silhouettes?

[elfin patio]

Ok so I have a theory about one of them

[shrewd pivot]

I wonder if Genji has a mechanical tongue? If someone can check the skin in emotes, maybe the tongue is Grey. If so, dang Genji’s sense of taste was probably nerfed after getting the prosthesis :( that's really sad honestly for his story, being built as a weapon.

[elfin patio]

The Omnic Spy

He may be Lynx 17 from Zarya HQ "Searching"

[elfin patio]

That would be crazy

But since Omnics do speak

[viral pilot]

Isn't that guy a hacker? I was thinking that the lady with the drone is a deadlock gang hacker. I guess there can be two hackers but seem unlikely

[shrewd pivot]

Lynx Seventeen uses they/them pronouns, and has different optic patterns, but it's definitely not impossible for trench coat omnic to be Lynx Seventeen since faceplates can be changed.

[elfin patio]

Lynx Seventeen appeared in the HQ Searching as a hacker omnic contracted by Katya Volskaya to track her blackmailer, Sombra. He teamed up with Zarya until they met Sombra. In the end, Zarya saves him from a warehouse explosion

[elfin patio]

yupp

[elfin patio]

Yeah that's one of the two problems with the theory

[gritty marten]

Does anyone know anythinng about Iggy Lucio mentions them i nan interaction

[viral pilot]

I gotcha

[shrewd pivot]

Iggy is the omnic Tracer interacts with in comics. Iggy likes music a lot

[elfin patio]

The first is that the Omnic Noir has those different optic patterns comparing to Lynx, I think there would be no lore explanation for that

The second problem is that Lynx has those antennas in top of his head

[gritty marten]

omg thats fye shes so cute

[shrewd pivot]

She is! I love her sticker 'tattoo' designs, I recommend reading the comics :)

[gritty marten]

I should

[viral pilot]

Now that's a cool design

[elfin patio]

But I think they are hiding in his hat. As showing his antennas would instantly reveal that it's him, and maybe Blizzard don't want players to know it's him yet

There's one other evidence that it is really Lynx: the fact he's with a walking cane

[shrewd pivot]

It's multiple comics called London Calling, here is part 1 https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/tracer-london-calling-1/

[elfin patio]

Since in his last apparition, Lynx was saved from a explosion, there could still be impactual damage to him, which made him in need of that walking cane

[gritty marten]

thanks twin

[elfin patio]

And btw

he was also a very awaited character back in time

alongside with others unlikely characters just like jetpack cat, mama hong and such

[viral pilot]

The idea of anyone needing a cane in overwatch, especially an omnic, makes me feel like there's more to it

[elfin patio]

I first thought of Bloodborne 💀

[peak escarp]

ah yes, Lynx-Seventeen, the only omnic ever to use a cane

[viral pilot]

Lol cane-gun

[elfin patio]

Now you are trolling

I bet

[peak escarp]

no just being sarcastic

Lynx is unlikely

[shrewd pivot]

Gentle reminder, Lynx Seventeen is a they, not a he.

"Venture", "Lynx Seventeen", and "Nameless" are canon characters that canonically use they/them pronouns

I presume it's a foriegn language difference as the reason so no worries! Just being clear

[elfin patio]

Oh I didn't know

[shrewd pivot]

No worries!

[elfin patio]

If I well remember they did told Zarya about the binarism of both omnics and humans

SHITTT

[hollow oar]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZThxWVKRV/ peak overwatch

[elfin patio]

LOL MY FAULT

[hollow oar]

honestly emfrej id growing on me

[viral pilot]

John Halo is pretty cool

[hollow oar]

i hated it at first but its kind of interesting, i still think their dynamic is better platonic though

[elfin patio]

Imagine playing as Emre and killing McCree, Ana and Pharah

[hollow oar]

imagine killing Everyone

[elfin patio]

That's Roadhog I guess

[viral pilot]

I wish overwatch would commit to romance just a little bit

Personally

[elfin patio]

We have Zennyatta and Ramattra

[viral pilot]

Lol idk about that

[elfin patio]

clankers love

[hollow oar]

i can see that, personally i think romance usually makes stuff blander XD maybe its just not my cup of tea as far as media goes

[hollow oar]

Excuse me, What?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah... Ashe x Cass had potential romance in a novel so it's absolutely platonic only sister-brother dynamics for them at all lol.

[elfin patio]

Don't you know ?

Omnics can love too

[peak escarp]

they can, but Zenyatta and Ramattra are not lovers

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra, Zenyatta, and Mondatta are platonic only in canon

Yeah

[hollow oar]

yeah i aint ever heard of that ship in my life, it just caught me off guard lmao

[viral pilot]

That's some ao3 fanfic right there

[shrewd pivot]

Writers even compared Ramattra, Zenyatta, Mondatta, and Genji to Malcolm in the middle (blood nrothers) in jokes so it's a safe bet to say Ramattra and Zenyatta are ex-monks with a monastic brotherhood dynamics AND familial platonic found family sibling dynamics

[hollow oar]

yeah i see them as brotherly too

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. I would hope an official writer wouldn't compare lovers to Malcolm in the middle blood brothers, so that's my take atleast lol

[viral pilot]

Yeah there's way better sitcoms to compare it IMHO

[shrewd pivot]

And explicit canon has only say brotherly, as close as brothers, a bond between brothers

[hollow oar]

guys i love glazing emre so much

all my messages here atp are just glazing this guy

[shrewd pivot]

I want to say THANK YOU ALL for understanding, bc many in the Ramattra fandom likes to ignore this canon and ship Ramattra x Zenyatta everywhere without tagging so 😭 🥀 thankfully I can enjoy Ramattra lore here

[shrewd pivot]

Turkish Chad moment

[viral pilot]

Yeah everyone knows that Ramattra and Dva are the best fanship

Me myself and I

[shrewd pivot]

But lol Ramattra is a fun character i hope he gets his phase 2 arc one day...

[viral pilot]

Same

Until then, we suffer

[hollow oar]

i agree i feel like ram was wasted potential, i hope they give null sector the spotlight again in the future
but only after we have 80+ comics and 3 animatics featuring emre

[shrewd pivot]

LOL fair enough

[viral pilot]

You'll hate me for saying this but...
I totally think he'll die

Emre

[hollow oar]

WHY 😭 😭 😭

[shrewd pivot]

I personally want to see more phreaks members to see what kind of wacky cool cyberpunk body mods they have (recluse style outlandish maybe?)

[viral pilot]

Idk, he just seems like the inevitably gonna die type. Sacrifice himself to save the rest kinda fella

[hollow oar]

yeah i can see that, would be pretty sick too
but i think if they’re gonna kill anybody, it’ll be reinhardt

[viral pilot]

Oh yeah

[shrewd pivot]

I have a feeling he will either be saved by Freja not abandoning him and sticking it through to the end, or Emre might be a dramatic sacrifice, yeah. Especially if the eye conspiracy fully permanently tries to take Emre over.

[hollow oar]

i hope he ends up being saved, but i cant imagine how they’re gonna deal with the Evil Finnish ChatGPT™️ that possesses him

[viral pilot]

😅

[shrewd pivot]

Chernobog god ai may I introduce you to: Belobog jail /j

[viral pilot]

Yeah definitely

[past copper]

Anyway. I still say one of the things will be Junker themed. That be kinda cool. Imagine it. Junker Bastion, Junker Doomfist, Junker...

Uhhh. Whichever Support would look cool as a Junker

[hollow oar]

they should add a junker support, im trying to think of one that would fit well and i cant think of any

[past copper]

Maybe Jetpack Cat?

[hollow oar]

if it were anyone, probably jetpack cat yeah

[viral pilot]

Jpc will totally get junker skin bet

[shrewd pivot]

Technically Ana has some interactions with Junkers

[hollow oar]

do you think ana would fit in well with the junkers

[past copper]

She's traveled the world and Junkrat and Roadhog went on a global crime spree

They were bound to have encountered each other once

[hollow oar]

idk i just dont think she has any aligning values with them lol

[brittle sky]

Whoever omnic noir turns out to be in the plot, they should in fact be voiced by sungwon cho

[viral pilot]

Reluctant grandmother

[hollow oar]

omnic noir will be so peak

i hope they make that guy into another hitscan dps

[past copper]

Bet they end up being like Marquis from Battleborn. If you remember that game, you a real one

[viral pilot]

Nah I only play good games

I jest I jest

[past copper]

Battleborn was good

But made a fatal gaming mistake

Was released around the same time as another game that just became much more popular

Overwatch

[viral pilot]

Yeah

[viral pilot]

I predict he'll be a sharpshooter

[past copper]

Not bragging about that, but Overwatch almost singlehandedly killed its competitors

[elfin patio]

Really ???????

It's like a really great meme of Overwatch

never saw that one gif of Zenny and Ramattra kissing ?

[past copper]

That's what Marquis from Battleborn was. A robot sniper. Can't post a picture to show anyone

So imagine Overwatch releases an omnic sniper who's weapon is a cane gun

[viral pilot]

That'd be pretty cool

I'd totally suck with him lol

[brittle sky]

Who would be the years supports if not noir?

[past copper]

The one with the drone

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I was suprised Ana even had cordial interactions with Junkers, but it seems like when she kept a low profile faking her death she interacted.

I don't think Ana would side with Junkers/Talon against overwatch imo

[viral pilot]

I was thinking them or horn chick

[shrewd pivot]

https://x.com/pillowpetxoxo/status/2021696401323798857?s=46&t=Yih3kGo92m1F2RIijJKAuw

👀 oh dang...

#1 Loser boy (@Pillowpetxoxo)

VOLUME UP!!!

I noticed while checking out new sleep animations that Emre has strange noises coming from him. I think these robotic sounds might be the Conspiracy speaking to him.
#Overwatch #Emre #EmreSarioglu

▶ Play video

X · Feb 11, 2026, 9:22 PM

Reminds me a little bit of the garbled voices that subjugator helmets played... but this is more blips rather than a long noise like the subjugator helmets have

[hollow oar]

question for yall

[edgy meadow]

answer

[hollow oar]

what do you think the reason is for emres gun being covered in needles 💀

[edgy meadow]

its an edgy design so the rule of cool wins idk, maybe as torture/psy warfare

[hollow oar]

psychological warfare against himself 😭 conspiracy just be doing ts for the love of the game

[eager turret]

Lf funsies 18+

[languid cape]

in the lore it’s hinted and for shadowed a smart and good looking person will gift me the one punch man collab

[edgy meadow]

w ebegging

[cyan crow]

The chain arm specifically

He does nvm I feel so slow

[viral pilot]

Crazy cuz I'm watching that rn. I wish kiri didn't get the tornado skin 😭

[fathom grove]

Maybe to keep him in more of a state of pain so he's easier to submit

[acoustic ice]

i was wondering, what were sigma’s living conditions under doom’s rule?
he must’ve at least been living in a baby playroom or something

[peak escarp]

all we know is that he was given a lab to continue his experiments in

we don't know what his living quarters were like

but I assume he was still treated like a human

[broken eagle]

I was Confused when i heard that

[shy dagger]

Do you guys think Mizuki’s voice is annoying?

I know it fits with his lore of hiding a facade but I feel like they could’ve done that in another way lol

[cloud canyon]

reading up on emres lore rn

man I forgot all this stuff

[civic lynx]

He sounds incredibly dry and generic

[shy dagger]

I heard people say he’s the male Kiriko

[civic lynx]

Pretty much is

[shy dagger]

Some people say it fits his lore though

Cause it like

Him hiding his facade

[civic lynx]

You can write a character that hides their facade without making them a copy of a character that already exists and is hated

[shy dagger]

EXACTLY
People are justifying this direction because of “lore” but the fact still stands that it’s obnoxious to the average player. Personally I don’t think it’s the VA’s fault, more so the director and writing team’s

[civic lynx]

The VA is talented and his voice isn’t even the bad thing, it’s just the fact he’s written to be kiriko if she was a man

[edgy tree]

Their entire family has spiritual roots her Grandma taught her to heal she also taught her to summon the seemingly sentient fox that she had to bond with

If her dad made her fox woudn't it be kinda weird for her grandmother of all people to do that

Her ofudas are also just healing paper

[round bramble]

Idk, I like his sarcasm

[shrewd pivot]

Fair criticism! I personally read both Kiriko and Mizuki as a "delinquent with a heart of gold" archetype as seen in many anime for example, where it's this "ehhhhh????" kind of tough persona with hammy voice acting, but deep down the character (and then voice acting) is softer. If you aren't used to the archetype, is def reads as obnoxious, but I think that has to do with the voice direction not making the tough guy facade more hammed up so it's extremely obvious it's a 'mode' and not serious (Jojo does some very obvious 'delinquent' tropes, if you get that idea)

Mizuki has some very fun lines were his personally gets to shine, where it isn't that breathy read tough guy facade

[crystal saffron]

why is emre turkish

but he speaks finnish when he ults

[shrewd pivot]

Emre is a human and Turkish. The eye conspiracy controls Emre and the eye conspiracy is related to the Finnish god ai called Chernobog

[crystal saffron]

chernoberg from gtav 🗣️

[wide bloom]

I haven’t been paying attention to the lore for a year-ish. Have they done anything important with Cassidy?

[brittle sky]

Not since he rejoined ow with a bunch of new recruits

[merry mason]

Her dad made it so his moms methods activate his tech. The ofudas are laced with anima or w/e

Like, I feel mizuki makes this a pretty open and shut case. He’s a confirmed anima user who can:
Enchant paper
Teleport
Heal
Summon a shrine to protect allies

Like aside from Suzu his powers are almost 1:1 with Kiri so it seems like a no brainer to just say Kiris dad did something to her as a child to give her anima based powers. Why does it line up perfectly with the the Yamagami family traditions? I don’t know but getting powers based on cultural traditions is super common in Overwatch so I feel safe just chalking it up to thematic relevance

[wise grotto]

I’m sorry I don’t feel like he seems like kiriko 2.0
Having a similar style of teleport makes sense if you look at who trained him
His ult doesn’t feel like a rip on kiriko it just feels like it would also be on theme for a person who’s again trained by the dude who makes anima gear period
His personality doesnt feel like kirikos at all he’s more paranoid and superstitious and his facade is literal csuse he’s a double agent

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah it's more so his "delinquent" trope creating a similar sarcastic breathy kind of voice acting

Mizuki's paranoid/superstitious personality is very distinct from Kiriko imo

I feel bad for Mizuki, his impending doom anxiety about bad luck is a bit hashtag relatable as someone with OCD lol

I personally find Mizuki's story interesting

Holy auto correct typo batman mbmb lol

[wise grotto]

Yea like I haven’t confused his personality once for her
And he’s the impending doom thing feels too relatable

His fighting style having similarities makes sense csuse it should make sense
Same dude trained him that made her gear

[shrewd pivot]

Well, mentored Mizuki. I don't know if Kiriko’s dad actively trained Mizuki to do paper doll techniques

The paper dolls (katashiro) are a tradition where the paper dolls are said to absorb the sins/"bad luck" in the place of someone in rituals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katashiro

And his ult references a spiritually distinct area, like a pure area that evil spirits cannot enter, which explains why it's a barrier for projectiles

"Kekkai (Buddhism) [ja] (結界), a Japanese Buddhist term, itself a translation of the Hindu term sīmābandha (सीमाबन्ध), commonly used in fiction to refer to a spiritual or magical force field"

Kekkai in media is like... sacred ground? Like a close equivalent is a priest class in fantasy blessing a ground area so demons cannot walk there, kind of thing.

[subtle bison]

Quick question; So I read through what little lore we have of Mizuki but didn't see anything on why he was given a chain imbedded in his arm.

I can see in concept art images that his left arm is a prosthetic, but has it been explained why or how his arm got taken off?

[shrewd pivot]

Not that I am aware.

But Mizuki is Kappa themed, and the legends are that a Kappa gets it's arm cut off by an attacker, so the Kappa becomes indebted by working for the attacker to return the arm, by doing labor or by providing medicine. It would explain Mizuki working for Hashimoto because of debt and being Mizuki being a support

[subtle bison]

So, what I'm Envisioning is that the Hashimoto cut it off as a sort of symbol of joining the clan. Like how cults in media need you to cut off a finger to join it, as a show of loyalty.

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear. Mizuki's family is said to have a "bad luck" curse so maybe Mizuki lost his arm unrelated.

I think your hypothesis would make sense, but just for clarity, we don't have any explicit canon about how Mizuki lost his arm yet

[subtle bison]

Yeah yeah. I do love speculation tho. Always fun

On that topic; Emre, or more specifically the thing controlling him. I don't know if it's common knowledge now but I've seen a lot of theories about it with substantial evidence.

[edgy meadow]

its almost certainly involved with chernobog, but the nature of the situation is still unclear

[shrewd pivot]

(I love speculation too! The theorizing is so funnn)

The eye conspiracy (same one Sombra ran from) is seemingly controlling Emre. The eye conspiracy seems to have a connection with the Chernobog god ai of global security located in Finland, because Emre is speaking Finnish when controlled and apparently decoded Emre bio text say Chernobog

[subtle bison]

So, do you reckon it is Chernobog itself or more-so like worshippers of it that are controlling him?

I mean, the way Sombra talks about it, the Conspiracy seem more like a group rather than a single entity, then Emre talks about it more like a singular entity.

[edgy meadow]

well i doubt the conspiracy would have revealed themselves properly to emre if theyre using him as a puppet

and given the teases we do have about chernobog, it seems implied that this isnt chernobog's natural behavior

its also being manipulated or controlled to some degree

[subtle bison]

Oh yeah. I remember seeing something that said Chernobog sent "hundreds of pages of instructions" to help maintain security while it was gone. Seemed like it cared about humanity a lot, so it's a bit gutting that he was shut down and now seemingly having Emre side with Vendetta.

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear atm

It wouldn't suprise me if its something like

Chernobog god ai solo running the eye conspiracy (maybe runaway directions, or maybe Aurora awakened Chernobog with free will sapience? All speculation ofc)

Or

Chernobog god ai being used by an "illuminati group" style trope running the eye conspiracy (<also speculation but this is personally what I think it will be)

[shrewd pivot]

It's unclear in canon if the god ais were self aware beings or just something like chatgpt word statistics machines. (i say this bc Aurora was story wise notably the first sapient robot (overwatch uses the word sentient but they mean sapient like human minds) due to a quantum mechanics miracle of sorts).

I would argue god ais could possibly be sentient in some way (not sapient like humans tho), since they had global systems access, it would be like how an ant colony can show higher intelligence as a "super organism" despite a single ant not being nearly as intelligent

Still, I agree it's a gutting scene with Chernobog apologizing. The whole omnic crisis arc had a lot of interesting writing in that way

[wise grotto]

And him being chained to the hashimoto for giving him this Arm (chain symbolism with him goes so hard)

[shrewd pivot]

Yep! Also Kappa mytos of Kappa pulling horses/people into water to drown them too relates to the 'chain down' idea, even if its not directly using chains

I still think Mizuki's design should have used a different yokai directly tied to bad luck good luck deals, but there is some good Kappa motif with his arm for sure

[merry mason]

Oh no my comment was part of the “is kiriko magic” argument not the “is mizuki derivative” argument

Personally mizuki is my favorite of the five new guys

[brittle sky]

I do enjoy his lines after respawning from being taken out by hanzo or kiriko amounting to "oh shit, they know". Do hope they keep him in this fruitful double agent role a good while rather than immediately resolve it in the likely hashimoto arc come season 3.

[eager turret]

Lf funsies 18+

[wise grotto]

Oh in mizukis case again he at least has stuff and is given a direct explanation to how his things work

We still only have guesswork for kiri

[merry mason]

I’m just saying if we get an explanation of how mizuki does the same things kiriko does,it’s not a logical leap to think kiriko has the same explanation

[wise grotto]

True but
Mizuki has what we see doing it
Kiriko is just doing it without the things doing it
But this is the closest we’ve ever been to having something to work off of for kiri

[dense garnet]

I just wonder what exactly is anima in Kiriko's kit. We know Mizuki's prosthetic forearm is anima-infused (afaik)

We don't know what's anima-infused in Kiriko's weapons. Her kunai? Her ofudas?

Her ofudas also just disappear so I assume they're some kind of healing based hard light

[wise grotto]

Plus his weapon

That’s what’s left for us
We know the ofudas can hsve tech to heal from her and mizuki using them for exactly that in there kits

So for those we have concrete consistency

[edgy tree]

Why would her dad make something her grandma understands on a deep level

[wise grotto]

Her anima we don’t know yet at all

[edgy tree]

deep enough to teach her

[wise grotto]

Cause her husband probably also made them
And his son did
And so on so fourth

[edgy tree]

then why is Kiriko the one with a fox spirit while her mom just uses weapons

if the fox spirit was tech you'd think she'd also use it

[wise grotto]

We don’t know that was the thing we only have concrete evidence of the ofudas
The fox is confirmably an anima however we don’t know if Kirikos mom had or didn’t have an anima

The same way hanzo and genji have one

[edgy tree]

where was it confirmed to be an anima?

[wise grotto]

Well were told about anima and there’s literally no other tech in ow universe that uses an animal as its expression from the weapon and if magic doesn’t exist and her fathers the one that makes animas

[dense garnet]

The fox spirit is more of just a family tradition thing

Like a myth

Or religion

[edgy tree]

They have magic healing paprer

[dense garnet]

It wouldn't be a shock to know that Toshiro made anima for his own daughter

[edgy tree]

It doesn't look like she has a weapon that summons the fox unlike Hanzo and Genji

Hanzo needs to use his bow to summon the dragons Kiriko just does a hand motion

[dense garnet]

Maybe it's the gloves idk

[wise grotto]

Magic objectively doesn’t exist so there’s SOMETHING tech related making them

[dense garnet]

And they're 100% gonna explain it

[wise grotto]

Hanzos ult specifically how it works isn’t canon the dragons in game are just a hitbox

[dense garnet]

They already explained why Kiriko is so much younger than Hanzo and Genji

[edgy tree]

They went around it using spirit energy and spirits

[wise grotto]

She should be 28-29 for that to actually make sense via art

[dense garnet]

They said the art is wrong

[wise grotto]

So how did she train with them at all

[edgy tree]

What about the dragons cinematic?

[dense garnet]

She was 4 years old when with the Shimadas. Her mom simply brought her daughter to work with her

[wise grotto]

The cinematic works differently then in game one’s
Still comes from the bow but it isn’t identical

[wise grotto]

That’s
So much worse then just making her 28 damn

[edgy tree]

No way

[dense garnet]

I don't know
The Shimadas and Kiriko's family have already been pretty close with each other. Even if they didn't train together, they'd know who Kiriko is

[edgy tree]

They really coudn't just say "Kiriko lies about her age" to show her more trickster nature

or the fox spirit keeps her young

[dense garnet]

Kiriko's family has made weapons for the Shimadas and mentored them in combat long before Kiriko was born

[edgy tree]

this just makes her story vid wrong

[dense garnet]

I don't really understand how it's worse

Kiri is essentially just their baby sister

[edgy tree]

Because it wasn't shown like that

[dense garnet]

Yeah that's called a retcon

I predicted that was gonna happen anyways

[edgy tree]

the worst retcon they could've picked

Her just being older would've made more sense than the scenes they showed us being completly fabricated

[dense garnet]

The scenes, no. Just the art. Genji and Hanzo simply didn't look like adults when they really were. I think you're getting too hung up on the art

[wise grotto]

Csuse instead of retconning just the simple number
They retconned the part that changes art and scenes

And backstory

[dense garnet]

Even as a 20 year old, Genji was a royal delinquent

[wise grotto]

Genji does not look like an adult in the art shown
Not even a little bit

Genji is as much of a teenager in that art as one could be

[dense garnet]

Yeah, that's why I said you're getting too hung up about the art. The art doesn't matter anymore

[wise grotto]

The fact it doesn’t matter anymore is dumb
Rwtconning the backstory and art vs a simple number people could already accept

[dense garnet]

Both options would've been fine for me so idrc

And it didn't retcon the backstory

The backstory is the same

Kiriko trained with Genji and Hanzo

Or at least had the same formal training her mother was giving to them

[edgy tree]

It was told that Kiriko,Genji and Hanzo were CHILDHOOD friends

now it doesn't really make sense because she was the only child there

[dense garnet]

I think you're getting hung up on the semantics. It doesn't really change their relationship that much whether they were childhood friends or not

[edgy tree]

Changes the entire story we were told so far besides the fact they trained together

[dense garnet]

The same exact events happened, you just assumed they happened when the Shimadas were younger

That's fairly easy to correct

[edgy tree]

I didn't "assume" it was told that way

like traight up said

[dense garnet]

Well now you're still talking as if that's how it should be

[edgy tree]

yeah? They could've retconned her age or made her spirit fox be the thing that keeps her young

[dense garnet]

Or the secret third option that is still just as valid

Kiri says when eliminating Genji "your little fox is all grown up", I think that's a new line for season 1 afaik

[edgy tree]

That breaks most of the things we were told

[dense garnet]

It would only break the timeline if Kiriko didn't exist

[edgy tree]

Because she was the youngest of them all and didn't see eachother for a long time?

the new retconned story just implies she was a baby when they were close to their teens which makes their childhood friendship not make sense

[dense garnet]

Then ignore the childhood friends comment, it's not gonna kill you

[edgy tree]

if you don't care about it why are you defending that?

[dense garnet]

Because you're caring too much

I'm just saying you need to care less about it like I do

Because it ultimately doesn't change much

It changes like one line of wording

You're acting like it breaks the entire lore

[edgy meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1309644033844314133/1465510940689694740/BAHHH-4x.gif

[wooden drift]

Are we back talking about kiriko's age?

That's what no new lore does to mfs..

[peak escarp]

where does it say they were childhood friends?

[elfin bane]

since is lore is generally i think where we talk about skins

anyone else upset that juno’s mythic weapon hud is really dull

but when you respawn it’s like bright for a moment and it looks so vibrant i love it

but 90 percent of the time i can hardly see it

[solemn sierra]

Bastion friend 🙂 only lore you need to know about them

[young dragon]

The kill effect is nice at least.

[shrewd pivot]

I think that was more so implied by the voicelines and texts. Like hanzo describing genji and kiriko hanging out together at the arcade in the heroes ascendant story, or the voice lines about bowl cuts. iirc voicelines about Kiriko and Genji were removed, the ones that suggest this

[latent lark]

last I checked they tried fixing Kiriko's age discrepancy and confirmed Genji and Hanzo's depictions in her origin were outdated. Kiriko is more of a family friend than Childhood friend

[shrewd pivot]

I don't mind if the write this out or or change writing durection or whatever, it's just kinda sad Kiriko’s character didn't have the proper care put into her writing in the first place

[shrewd pivot]

Oh really? Okay then sweet

[latent lark]

my guess was she was written earlier on before the canon ages, birthdays, and No magic rule were put in place

mind you shes been teased since Kanazeka's release so it makes sense she just struggles from last minute retcons

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah iirc Chu had created her idea in ow1

[latent lark]

might also be why explaining her power's origin has taken so long

[shrewd pivot]

I still think it's kind of hysterical that every Japanese hero knows Kiriko’s family in some way (as in, along the lines of all being family friends or something), but ig that's what happens when Kiriko’s dad is the one that makes Anima tech

Mei doesn't have a personal connection with Wuyang or Anran per se, Sojourn doesn't have a personal connection with Venture per se, but Mizuki, Genji, Hanzo, and Kiriko could be defined as all family friends of Kiriko’s family

[latent lark]

I heard someone complain about how Toshiro being the only guy who makes the tech is unrealistic and out of pocket, but almost every hero in overwatch is based off a trope or stereotype and a common stereotype in Asian families is traditions being upheld by family lines, and Hardlight was invented long ago enough that the inventor of Hardlight has a granddaughter so having a relatively older middle-aged man be the founder of a tradition like crafting hardlight into weapons is clearly based on the "elder who makes powerful weapons" trope

alot of people treat a stereotype as bad but often or not they have some truth to them (most of the bad stereotypes are just based off Racist views pushing those stereotype to very bad directions based off racist history) and Overwatch does a thing where the characters within it are more than just a stereotype

a good example is Symmetra, they could have easily taken her down so many bad routes but here she is a fav in the community

or Zarya being the big strong russian lady stereotype but she is shown instead to have layers

[shrewd pivot]

I agree!

[dense garnet]

Something funny I just realized is with Hazard's whole thing about tearing the system down

It might have him go against the conspiracy

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think it's bad to have Kiriko’s dad as the Anima tech user, just as it's not bad to have Illari's people have inti warrior tech.

I think it's just kinda of awkward when other countries have variety but so far we only have human Japanese heroes related to an already tired trope of "scifi setting but Japanese heroes get magicy powers" when Japanese media extends far beyond Shinto rituals or Yakuza dragon fights. I don't mind Mizuki's story btw! But dang we did not need another magicy human Japanese hero so soon lol

[shrewd pivot]

Oh for sure! Hazard would absolutely be against a secret society oppressing people if that's what the eye conspiracy turns out to be lol

[livid pond]

Wait so sombra isn't part of Talon? Which side should I be on then?

[brittle sky]

Sombra is not part of vendetta's talon. She expressed interest in rejoining once they're not run by vendetta

[toxic flax]

would ramattra be against what chernobog is doing

[edgy meadow]

rammatra sees the god AIs as a threat due to their ability to override other software

one of the few times he expressed a positive attitude towards a human was about imprisoning Anubis

[cosmic crest]

"positive attitude"

He seemed pissed

[edgy meadow]

well, he got pissed bc of pharah's assumptions

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395993166878343169/1460268108114825450/image0.gif

in rammatra terms its a relatively thankful view

[toxic flax]

no it was more like
ram: you were one of anubis’s jailers?
pharah: whats it to you punk?
ram: you shouldve kirked him
pharah: woah what!!!

smthn like that

[eager turret]

Lf funsies 18+

[shrewd pivot]

^ Can mods ban this account @eager turret this is adverting nsfw I think?

[shrewd pivot]

If Chernobog is oppressing omnics as Anubis did, yes. If Chernobog is simply humanity's hubris biting itself, then probably not. Ramattra doesn't seem to be willing to 'save humanity from itself' based on Ramattra's voice line with Vendetta

[toxic flax]

whats lf funsies mean anyway

[shrewd pivot]

No idea, idk what it means but the comment said '18+' at the end and this is the second time I saw the account post that message randomly in lore channel so... yeah

[toxic flax]

lifefever?

its seems like a bot

wait am i allowed to say that here

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, no reason why you couldn't point out a possible bot account imo

[toxic flax]

isnt that offensive to omnics

[shrewd pivot]

Lol

[toxic bear]

are we getting cinematics for the 5 new heroes or no

[peak escarp]

probably one a week

[brittle sky]

how detailed or in depth each gets remains to be seen. Certainly Emre's doesnt feel like a full origin story in the classic style

[past copper]

I'd like if the shorts were brought back to their glory

If the Vendetta short was any indication, I think they finally are

[tulip stone]

Last night i got a interaction between Widowmaker and Vendatta, i can not find it anywhere, (youtube, youtube shorts, tiktok, and reddit.) I 100% know its them talking and i am sure its new because Vendatta calls Widowmaker Amélie and not Lacroix like last season. Does anyone know what this voice line says?

[wooden drift]

They'll gonna do it for huge moments I think

And I hope they'll take sweet time with it, cuz the last one was kinda rushed ngl

[languid kindle]

brig?

[wise grotto]

Brig??? The cat lady

[wanton bane]

FIKA

[acoustic ice]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9QpBok0Nr38 my ass was not prepared for echo saying :3

[toxic flax]

lowk why does domina levitate

[round bramble]

She found a stray cat and her first thought was to strap it to a jet pack and send it to war

[candid rapids]

Anyone know how symmetra is reacting to being allied with talon now? Wasn’t really her choice

[glad fox]

Mizukis interaction with kiriko kinda doesn't make sense. She casually talks with him even though mizuki is part of hashimoto

[peak escarp]

Mizuki infiltrated the Yokai on a mission from the Hashimoto

she doesn't know he's with the Hashimoto

[merry mason]

I think the alliance is being kept a close secret

[candid rapids]

Does she know about it?

[merry mason]

I doubt it, probably only the higher ups know

[viral pilot]

Her finding out will certainly be interesting tho

[fleet scaffold]

To add onto what other people have already said about it, yes, I too agree that there is some romantic subtext going on with Freja and Emre.

I think anyone who has followed this lore so far would be able to see how people would arrive to that conclusion.

My question is, if you are willing to side with evil for the sake of someone you love, or at least, someone you care deeply for-- then what are you willing to give up to keep them?

At this point it seems that Freja jas come to realise that Emre makes her feel less alone. Makes her feel like-- she belongs. Which as we all know, is all she was lived for. A meaningful purpose, as well as the swelling rush of endorphins that comes with hugh impact action.

The cause to her has always been secondary, in the end, the sensation was always what Freya craved most.

[vast heart]

All i can say it they love each other, with or without the split and him changing and following a different path. They seem like they want it to work out again but now its different with how they found each other

[peak escarp]

love doesn't have to be romantic

[fleet scaffold]

In terms of the Overwatch word timeline, we know that Null Sector's first invasion wave was to be one of many. And will one day be a threat to return. We also have a hidden faction, which has their grasp on Emre, unnamed and unknown. And lastly, with Doomfist's downfall may come the rise of a 3rd independent faction.

Soon, it's going be to all out war between groups spread across the world. Something so calamitous that the government wont have any easy way to stop it. Except only to kneel to a particular side.

[keen summit]

To not get her shoes dirty likely

[brittle sky]

Presumes talon in its current iteration will last longer than this year.

[brittle sky]

I'm going to go out on a limb and doubt talon gets canon control over a real world government.

[viral pilot]

Idk how much they control now but there is talon banners all over colosseo

[past copper]

Talon is openly showing where they control now

Colosso due to Vendetta's personal control over it

Along with a few we already knew they controlled without the public knowing

[brittle sky]

like... what does Vendetta want a government for? yeah yeah her ego her empire, but like... what you gonna do with a government?

[toxic flax]

i assume her father had one

[brittle sky]

nah man, guy was just a wealthy businessman with a bunch of politicians in his pocket to cover how crimey he was

[past copper]

She doesn't want a government. She wants power and control. And Talon has the means to make it happen. But Doomfist never reached out to claim it

He hid Talon in the shadows while she us finally revealing themselves to the entire world

[brittle sky]

what the heck does that even mean? Power and control. You get it. Congratulations, now you gotta figure out a tax code

[fleet scaffold]

Unknown, but if they did, it would be a problem not easily solved.

[fleet scaffold]

Well, yeah, maybe this is hardly likely, but I wouldnt write it off as impossible.

[past copper]

Talon was always meant to be more than it was. But Akande never made the move to make it happen

He bid his time too long and it lost him everything

[brittle sky]

are you roleplaying or something?

[past copper]

Just saying. Akande could have showed the world just who Talon was. What they were capable of

[brittle sky]

Like, he wasn't biding his time for too long. They never progressed the story, and what story we did get was him getting exactly what he wanted (funding another faction to throw the world through a crucible getting the sort of chaos he sees as fruitful without actually putting people through an existential crisis).

[past copper]

Hell. We don't even know what his endgame even was anymore

The only piece we got is that he wanted to start a war and he did so with Null Sector

[brittle sky]

What talon is capable of? Any faction is capable of exactly as much or as little as the writing room says they are. Just because they weren't going full GI Joe Cobra and trying to make territorial conquests didn't mean they were a missed opportunity.

[past copper]

Then he had his people steal a power source from one if their ships to power some machine. As Mauga hinted

And apparently, they were searching for something in ancient ruins. Whatever it was, we probably will never know now

[brittle sky]

I mean, I'd be shocked if Doomfist is gone. And I'd be only slightly less shocked if Vendetta kept control of talon, miss 'alienate all the iconic heros and rely exclusivley on tenuous alliances and talon's three most backstabby members, two of whom you're immediately starting to cross'

Lady's making a fire sale outta Talon assets.

[past copper]

She's doing the smart thing by having Talon branch out to other criminal groups. If only to use them as a means to an end

[fleet scaffold]

This is the ultimate fallacy that comes with a short handed goal of "world domination". Say you manage to somehow rule 100% of the world. You basically kickstart a new dystopian society where those loyal to Talon bully/steal/kill from the lower escelons. It ultimately breeeds a hostile world environment where it is kill or be killed. That the only lawful power is the power you wield for yourself. Not so far off from Senator Armstrong's goal in Metal Gear Rising.

This fallacy is likely to be her undoing. She seeks to justify her loss of father, and loss of inherited leadership, with world domination. The problem, with this is she seeks a goal which cannot be easily sated. And therefore the goal is unreasonable and unsatiable.

Why spend all this time making plans and amassing allies to establish yourself in a seat of power when that power will leave you to hunger for more? And to leave you with nothing? She leads with wealth, fear, and strength. But if not with love, anyone and everyone she gathers-- will sooner or later abandon her. If you are only a leader in spirt but not in heart, you will never make an empire that will last.

It honestly reminds me of the legend of Ozymandias.

[past copper]

Use them until they are no longer needed

[brittle sky]

Her line was literally 'that idiot was too busy cultivating alliances rather than exploiting them'. Two of her three big alliances stated up front 'cross us and regret it' in the most foreshadowing way. She's burning every bridge she can find.

[past copper]

True. But understand this. You gotta build bridges before you burn them

It's a classic villain manipulation thing

[brittle sky]

she laughed at doom for building bridges

[toxic flax]

the only backstabby member in her coterie as of the moment would be maxemilian since mauga and moira can js be influenced easily in their own ways

[past copper]

Yes. But Doom failed to burn any. He kept Sombra despite knowing of her betrayal

He also no doubt knew Max rates him out, but did nothing against him

[brittle sky]

Moira is a serial double crosser whose loyalty amounts to very little, and who is motivated by continuing her research with all the resources and none of the limits. The first thing Vendetta does when she sees Moira is think 'better put some limits on this lady's research'. Mauga has a track record of ignoring Talon's goals to suit his own whims.

[past copper]

Doom kept too many traitors around him instead of cutting them off

[brittle sky]

you... you realize you don't want to burn bridges? Like in the metaphor, burning bridges is an unalloyed bad thing?

[fleet scaffold]

He stalled his power not for idle time but to prepare for something greater than Vendetta could ever understand. Especially for now. He knew something about what was to come. And now-- we have agents gone rouge and a new empire seeking to take the world by force.

With hindsight to that, Akande hardly seems like the lethal and cruel force of nature he was originally made out to be.

[past copper]

New writers lost the plot for Doomfist more or less

[toxic flax]

at least theres a plot now

[fleet scaffold]

Doomfist died for this, RIP.

[brittle sky]

Vendetta has kept on only the traitors though? Like the ones who noped off were the ones defined as loyalists. When the loyal folks are gone, who do you have left?

[brittle sky]

I mean, nobody's convinced by that, right?

[past copper]

Ask Waller from DC that question and get back to me

[brittle sky]

what... what is the grand counterpoint? That the ruthless government lady from an entirely different universe likes to use inmates strapped with bombs?

[fleet scaffold]

There's no chance he comes back. And if he did, what would it even be for? Aside from wanting to take Talon, he never had his own ambition or goal. He wanted power for the sake of itself and that is a power wasted.

[toxic flax]

suicide squad mentioned

[fleet scaffold]

They had to have surely killed him off because his character can offer nothing else.

[brittle sky]

what? Doomfist has very clear goals beyond power. He stated them constantly.

Like that's an incredibly silly take that his character was tapped out.

[past copper]

The point is that Vendetta is simply keeping on such people until she no longer needs them. Which she will deem when that is necessary

[brittle sky]

Si tu dices. I'll start considering that when I see it.

[past copper]

Hint. Remember how they didn't specify a character dying? Bet you everything it's Max by Vendetta's blade. RIP Max

[brittle sky]

didn't specify a character dying?

[past copper]

They said A character would die. But they didn't specify a playable hero

[brittle sky]

Source?

[scenic ivy]

Question abaout lore do we know the reason for why windowmaker left talon?

[fleet scaffold]

Well, I must have missed or forgotten but if they are major goals people can rally behind-- I wonder why he kept his composure quiet.

[fleet scaffold]

Likely because she sees Vendetta as dangerous.

[past copper]

This was years ago. I think back in 2021 or something. But I don't know if that has changed given the circumstances

[scenic ivy]

But dosent she rely on Moira for her drugs?

[brittle sky]

That... that would almost definitely be in the context of the Invasion story arc. I don't think they'd feel beholden to hit that quota for an entirely different arc.

[brittle sky]

Either she's about to have a real rough detox, she found another supply, or she's still getting them in exchange for being a mole among the rogue agents or something.

[past copper]

Bc regardless, I highly doubt the character they planned to kill was Akande. I will die on this hill when I say he's still alive until I see a damn body

[brittle sky]

I mean obviously not. They're using way too dodgy language just to go 'yep, dead,' later.

[toxic flax]

what if doomfist has a daughter and then she comes and claims the throne from marzia

[past copper]

Akande didn't survive the Omnic Crisis, join Talon, and take over Talon just to be stomped like that

[brittle sky]

He was talking about it all the time. He sees conflict as a crucible that strengthens those who survive ("Only through conflict do we evolve"). He sees his role as triggering such conflicts to strengthen humanity - see funding Null Sector. In the Orisa book he contextualizes this as preparing humanity enough they will survive true existential crises like the Omnic Crisis.

[fleet scaffold]

Wait a sec

I've heard this plot thread before somewhere else

Ironically, it was Garou from One Punch Man

I knew it sounded familiar

[brittle sky]

Didn't Garou ultimately want himself to be the strongest?

[past copper]

I would have said Aizen from Bleach

[brittle sky]

Aizen wanted to overthrow the soul king

[fleet scaffold]

He wanted to become the ultimate evil so that the world would go beyond itself and defeat him.

It's interesting to have had a villain whose ultmate goal was their own defeat

[past copper]

Or maybe Madara from Naruto? Given his ideas to achieve ultimate peace

[fleet scaffold]

Madara didnt want the world to evolve, he wanted the world quiet. Trapped in their own perfect worlds. A peace where everyone could live without loss, pain or tragedy.

[past copper]

I was referring to before he left the Leaf Village. He sought peace through conflict and conquest more or less

[toxic flax]

thats not doomfists ideals tho

[fleet scaffold]

Oh that, hmmmm, I guess that could count. But I dont think he saw himself to lose in that conflict, though neither did Doomfist so yeah-- guess Madara is right on the money there.

[toxic flax]

to my knowledge its power through conflict not peace

peace is rams thing

[past copper]

I mean, his ideas are to start a war to weed out the weak so that the strong can rise up to change the world

[brittle sky]

evolution through conflict may be better than power as a descriptor

[past copper]

Technically speaking, Doomfist might gave had a twisted view of his goals bringing peace

A lot of people have different ideas of what world peace is and how to achieve it

[toxic flax]

to reserve entropy we first must tame it

thats what i always tell myself

[past copper]

Hell. Ramattra has his own idea of what world peace. As did Anubis

Note how neither one is meant for humanity

[toxic flax]

isnt it hypocritical for ram to hate anubis for assimilating his kind to use for its own whims despite the fact that thats exactly what null sector is doing to current awakened omnics

some food for thought

[past copper]

He's trying to save and preserve his own kind since they are all one generation. To protect then from the cruelty of humanity all while watching humans destroy themselves in the process

[toxic flax]

yes but his process is the same as anubis

restricting the will of the omnics

[past copper]

Anubis on the other hand sought to wipe out humanity to protect and preserve the world, as was part of it's original program

Problem was, humanity made it's job impossible and it decided to do the only thing to simplify it. As for thr omnics it used to do so

There's really no telling if there was an endgame for them if Anubis succeeded

Maybe keep them under it's control. Maybe release them to be servants without masters. Possibly do what Aurora did and free them with their own minds?

I guess we will never know 🤷‍♂️

At the end of the day. Anubis' only goal was to save the planet from the destruction humanity causes

Where the omnics would have fit into such a world, a world without humans and where nature can thrive, is anyone's guess

[toxic flax]

i dont think anubis accounted for the omnics

they were essentially tools

[brittle sky]

I mean the text itself speak to how Ram's desperation and savior complex lead to a certain amount of hypocrosy. Now, he's not using them as cannon fodder to die (just the opposite), but his truncation of Omnic choice was called out by other Null Sector characters.

[past copper]

I like to think Ramattra is the prime example of this saying

"You either die a hero or live long enough see yourself become a villain"

Ram had a honestly noble goal. But is going about it the wrong way

[toxic flax]

ram has the same enneagram as me hes so cool 🥹

[wide zodiac]

is genji in a relationship with anyone?

[languid kindle]

i appreciate reaper pronouncing emres surname Sarıoğlu right

[languid kindle]

or at the very least it sounded like an honest attempt

like it doesn't sound like SARİOGLU

[brittle sky]

Not as far as we know.

[median orchid]

The thing with Genji X Mercy was hinted at but got quietly retconned / cancelled right?

Because that relationship wasnt ethical at all.

[brittle sky]

It was established in pve that their letter writing, which many saw as a vehicle/inroad to a relationship, fell off, with a certain vibe of miss connection or lost intimacy.

So their dynamic was not strictly retconned, but the implication of a burgeoning relationship seems to have been cut short.

[broken eagle]

BTW eye on emre's chest looks diffrent on that legendary skin u get for buying battle pass for money

[shrewd pivot]

No way, my bet is that Doomfist is not actually dead. No body no death is applicable bc Doomfist did a stars wars pitfall that is notorious for implying the character will return (Maul from star wars for example)

Regardless, Gotta say, your prose is very fun to read, I like the way you paint a picture with words! You describe things in an engaging way

[shrewd pivot]

Nameless:

Lol. But yeah no denying Ramattra's big 'sin' in his story is denying omnics free will

"I wanted to know how to save a world that refuses to be saved"

[shrewd pivot]

"The path to hell is paved with good intentions" surely,

But I see Ramattra more like a tragic character, forced to make the impossible choices he made, because humanity's negligence forced his hand. If it wasn't Ramattra, it would be another awakened omnic, perhaps one more vengeant if Kace is any indication to go by. I think a part of it too, is that Ramattra isn't perfect, but can you blame him for trying to prevent omnic extinction in the only ways he knows how? Nope. Does that excuse Ramattra's harmful actions? Also no. But Ramattra is willing to be the martyr, willing to take the weight and blame, if it means he can secure a future free from human oppression for his people. It's very tragic.

I think there's something said in how Ramattra is so aware of and has survivors guilt over becoming the vile R-7000 who led omnickin to battle to become scrap (his discussions with Nameless) but perhaps Ramattra's coding has him rationalizing the world through that encoded R-7000 behavioral lense. He is doing things in the only ways he knows how.

Canonically, we don't know if every awakened omnic was awoken with the same personality, or if unit type influenced thier personality. Ie, would an omnic coded for child care be baseline different from an omnic coded for war strategy at the moment of awakening(ie, like a genetic predisposition)? Or is it simply memories that shaped the omnics personalities at awakening? I feel like Nameless' background in child care impacted Nameless' perspective about Ramattra regardless.

I personally think it's unfair to judge any awakened omnic for actions they took prior to the awakening, they had no free will prior. But Nameless' almost... discrimination? Bias? Against Ramattra being a R-7000 in this context of reminding Ram not to control omnics as Ram had prior to the awakening was a very interesting bias Nameless had.

Honestly ugh I would love to see more on Ramattra's story of him traveling from NYC to Nepal, the things he survived, and then moments at the Shambali monastery (especially the moment mentioned in lore where some violent endangerment happened with Ram and Zen? What was that scene? Bc concept art showed Ramattra had a hole in his shoulder.) I want to see how exactly the world treated Ramattra as an omnic AND a R-7000 "Ravager, squad killer", and I want to see how omnics treat Ramattra as an R-7000 unit. Did Ramattra face heavy bias/discrimination from his own people too? Was it very hard for Ramattra early days at the Shambali (despite Mondatta's acceptance) to be fully accepted by his fellow monks there? Did Ramattra ever get to interact with other R-7000s personally, and if so what was it like?

I would love to see more omnic culture lore explored one day...

[brittle sky]

Notably, ram met zen while the latter was engaged in some kind of violent resistance, per dev descriptions.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah!
Plus that concept art of Ramattra monk having a hole in his shoulder tells a story there. So sad PVE cinematics are forever locked behind closed doors, PVE probably would have explored that moment in some way

[brittle sky]

I think any return to ram will. Presumably enough of the writing team from that era of the team remains they can maintain the vibes Gavin Jurgens-Fyhrie was able to bring.

[shrewd pivot]

🙏 I sure hope so.
I don't remember the exact wording from devs about the violent ram and zen moment, so maybe this is way off base but.

It would be interesting if Ramattra parrelelled Tracer in her London Calling comics (ie, showing a heroic willingness to take a bullet for omnics after others doubt her due to prior actions)? Maybe omnics distrust Ramattra as a R-7000 that 'led omnics into war' during the crisis and Ramattra internalizes that, so in the moment that Zenyatta is being attacked, Ramattra takes the hit meant for Zenyatta, explaining the hole in Ramattra's shoulder in that concept art? Idk if that's even remotely what was going on tho, I would have to read the exact wording of devs to get any hints

I say this bc my first assumption when that dev info was revealed was that Ramattra had made a choice (action or inaction) that endangered Zenyatta, which further went to radicalize Ramattra, but hmmm.
It's all speculation at the end if the day tho

[elfin patio]

Hey what's all that anima thing again ?

Is Blizzard trying to explain how Hanzo and Genji dragons work?

A little how-it-works would be nice but I think it's cooler as a overall secret

I just realized I never even questioned myself much about it, always thought it was some kind of secret technology-achieved Spiritual Animal the Shimada Clan shared between family heads and nothing else

[shrewd pivot]

Anima is technology that Kiriko's dad makes: canon confirmed Anima tech to be Hanzo storm bow, Genji Dragon blade, and Mizuki's weapon

[elfin patio]

oh that's fucked up that's a new torbjorn coming to the game

fuck this

[shrewd pivot]

Nah, Kiriko’s dad was suggested to have made weapons for a while, we just now have the name "Anima" tech confirmed

[unique yacht]

About the game lore:

Sigma don't deserve any of that.

My boy did nothing wrong

[wise grotto]

Torbs apart of an entire group of engineers
Kirikos dad is one dude

[elfin patio]

???

You got my joke completely wrong dude

[gusty cloak]

is doomfist's fist one of a kind? like did the previous "doomfists" use the same fist? if yes than how will my boy get his fist back

[elfin patio]

It's indeed only one Doomfist that's been passing trough generations

The two previous Doomfist's had the same fist

That was really fucked up what Blizzard did with cutting the arm off 😭

[peak escarp]

the original Doomfist just covered the hand and wrist

each holder of the Doomfist has added to it

Vendetta cut him above the elbow,so the original parts should be intact

[gusty cloak]

so it is the same fist, but it was built upon? then it shouldnt be hard to rebuild i guess

I thought it was some premade ancient artifact or something

[gusty cloak]

that whole vendetta vs doomfist fight was wrong on many levels

they messed up

[elfin patio]

yup

[elfin patio]

that's so cool

but i think doomfist may not be that strong tho 💀

there's two things that makes the whole vendetta situation to work

[edgy meadow]

i just realised that the global missions imply we get a short story each week

[cinder estuary]

So lore wise im guessing Mauga managed to beat JQ cause ive gotten alot of Jq Roadhog challenges with talon

[edgy meadow]

huh

i did not know that

we havent gotten the jq and mauga interaction story yet

but i imagine we will soon

[cinder estuary]

Yeah in the faction challenges yesterday I got one for JQ and today I have some for roadhog

[edgy meadow]

they probably come to an alliance then

[elfin patio]

Doomfist's been taking L from the past 8-7 years or something

Overwatch is HELLA wrong for that, but I think they are trying to imply he ain't that strong

It's really, really a lost match to do that

[edgy meadow]

the global competition is divided into 5 weeks and each week has a name
this week's name was Another Life, which is the name of the short story we got with freja and emre
next week (tomorrow) is called Project: Jetpack Katt (so this is probably where we get Fika lore)
week after that is Picture of Success (junkers? domina? idk)
week after that is Cursebreaker (most definitely Mizuki
Finaly week of the season is From the Ashes (Anran/wuxing siblings/aftermath of the ow hq attacks probably)

[elfin patio]

But he lost to Winston, Lucio, Orisa, Equal to Mauga, and Vendetta now 💀

He's the one with the most loses in all of Overwatch

[cinder estuary]

Nah DF is allowing people to get stronger. Because his whole thing is letting people evolve through conflict

[elfin patio]

Yesss that's also my theory too

Think Talon wasn't really against Overwatch ever since he was in Lead also 💀

Look at how they actually never tried to hunt any agents ever since the disband, Doomfist never tried to get back after losing to Winston

[cinder estuary]

In all fairness he mightve won had he not had tracer blink into time.
He lost to lucio?

He never fought Orisa he folded a lot of her robots. In Numbani he didnt go to fight just to retrieve his gauntlet.

Being Equal to Magua is fine Maugas built different

I got nothing for Vendetta. He lost and I wish they gave him a proper fight

[limpid sun]

why do the devs hate the lore so much

[cinder estuary]

I also think this which is why he let them come back

[elfin patio]

Fr

[elfin patio]

1. Really? There's a long time since I've last seen the animated short

2. The more famous battle is Doomfist vs the OR15s that were programmed by Numbani. Then, Efi Oladele rebuilt and reprogrammed one of the destroyed omnics with higher technology, thus Orisa was born. Lucio was at Numbani too (I think it was a show) when Orisa and Doomfist got their rematch, and so he helped Orisa get the Doomfist out of Numbani

3. I meannnn yes but since Doomfist has the most aura ............

[limpid sun]

the reason doomfist loses so much is cause the devs want other heroes to seem like, actually heroic but the lore is basically a stinking corpse now

[elfin patio]

😭

[limpid sun]

i dont really think theres any value in even analyzing it they just kinda do whatever tf they want now

[cinder estuary]

I like how they were cooking with Ramattra in the story but its just over and we dont know how it ended

[limpid sun]

youd think they would just do a reboot of the lore atp, they keep introducing characters in super boring unimaginative ways and are like "mmmyeah this character was ALWAYS there from the start!!"

like i think the only character that works like that is mauga, who geniunely was mentioned a looooong time ago, he was always like, existing in the lore, everyone else is basically brand new, obviously except the ones at ow2 launch

and the way these dudes are presented is in such a way that were just supposed to buy that this is a character who was ALWAYS in overwatch lore, the entire time and also played a huge role!!! but nobody ever talked about them, not even once 💀

[elfin patio]

Talon is been causing overall chaos in the world, we don't know when they started, we don't know their reasons, we don't know what they want. But now we have the Conspiracy and maybe Talon will be given an actual purpose? Idk.

Either way, Doomfist's been sitting there as acting chief of Talon without doing much, they just gather around, aura farm and shit each other. That's more like a secret club

[limpid sun]

talon is just tryna disrupt global peace and cause general instablility becauuuse i guess doom is bored and wants stronger people to beat on

[elfin patio]

And Talon is a GREAT supervillain organisation

really. I don't think Marvel has villains that cool

[limpid sun]

well they were now they wanna rule the entire world now

[elfin patio]

I can think only of the Brotherhood of Mutants. And that's all

[limpid sun]

so funny that talon was like a secret organization ran by a handful of people now its like a full blown army with hundreds of thousands of troops 💀

[elfin patio]

And yet blizzard throws them in the trash again and again

[elfin patio]

💀

[elfin patio]

goku ass villain

[limpid sun]

yeah basically

[elfin patio]

Look at the Talon members:

[limpid sun]

when will hanzo be introduced into the story 😭

bro still pondering his fate

or like, dva or literally majority of cast

i think there was a clear plan for each character to enter the story in their own way, and like... instead we got "EVERYONE SHOWED UP TO GIBRALTR ONE DAY :D"

i guess what this really means, is there will be 200 more comics to explain why and who and how

[shrewd pivot]

The road map shows dva vs JunkerQueen, and the new mech hero is most likely D.MON, so dva will probably get lore soon :)

[limpid sun]

yeah i always wondered why there was a junker skin for Dva i guess were gonna find out

same with ana 🤨

[shrewd pivot]

Ana seemingly had interactions with the junkers when she was laying low after faking her death.

DVA's junker looking skin is an homage to concept designs she had

[limpid sun]

i would like to know the lore reason for why reaper stopped using a grenade launcher... thing

i mean the guy literally has grenades on his belt and just chooses to never use them 🤨

[cinder estuary]

If im not mistaken talon operates similar to ow the only difference is one of them believes in killing people and the others don't. Hence why Mcree flipped his shit when Reaper pulled the trigger

[limpid sun]

i dont think it was necessarily that mccassidy hates killing i think he just was surprised that reaper killed him instead of following the mission

also, it sets off all the alarms whereas before it was a sneaky sneaky mission

[cosmic crest]

There is no reason. And he probably does use it. Just because in the game he uses shotguns doesn't mean in universe he is physically locked into using those and nothing else. They just generally show the heroes using their usual weapons for consistency.

[limpid sun]

i mean he literally watches reaper snap a guys neck and gives him the "good job" nod

like

[cinder estuary]

Actually yeah you right cause the plan was to take him in

[limpid sun]

you never see him do it again 😔

not even in like tertiary media it was only in the announcement trailer iirc

whats even more strange though, is the fact they kept the grenade belt thing for the OW2 'remake' where theyre smaller, it almost looks like theyre supposed to be like... shotgun shells? but reaper doesnt reload, he just pulls out another shotgun, so it really makes no sense at all

[peak escarp]

Cassidy was upset because when he wanted to kill him (seen in the comic), Reyes said no, well take him alive

so Reyes then being the one to pull the trigger both makes him a hypocrite and goes against the plan they made

Blackwatch had killed/assassinated targets before, killing wasn't the issue

[cinder estuary]

Oh Reyes changed his mind cause bro said "You'll take me in and ill be out in no time"

Reaper said you know what? You right. point blank shotgun to the chest

[peak escarp]

he acted on impulse

which was out of character for him and Cassidy clocked it

[shrewd pivot]

Just realized Genji’s new skin hairstyle is very similar to og Emre's lol

[broken eagle]

I didnt noticed that until you pointed it out lol

[young dragon]

It's a good Genji skin that builds off his Overwatch 2 look. He's slowly becoming more comfortable with himself and his condition now.

In contrast, he's coldly angry throughout the Venice gameplay and was full of angst in OW1.

[dry pebble]

Even his head shape is more Emre looking than Emre's game model

In a better world Emre could've been awesome

[brittle sky]

Not to tread a contentious bit, but the options we have for sources for Genji's cyberjaw is:

• Lost or damaged in Hanzo's attack (contradicted by a declassified image, but one could argue that represents the work of an outside contractor asked to work from the Blackwatch skin so may not be closely accurate - notably that image does not show any facial wounds or scarring that we do know to be canon from the Dragons cinematic)
• Lost or damaged in subsequent Blackwatch or Post-OW activity (never mentioned before, and probably should have if so since it would feed his arc of feeling he loses his humanity)
• Lost or damaged in the Gibraltar attack (similar to how some speculate Tracer is getting those scars)
• Voluntarily replaced it via elective surgery (some people have called this an encapsulation of his character arc accepting his cybernetic parts, though you could argue that would be a bridge further from acceptance to excuberent embrace, especially for such a visceral part of the body to replace as the jawbone - something they notably even backed off from on the 'radical transhumanist' character from the cyberpunk coded Phreakz)
• Consider the skin to be non-canonical until if and when we get confirmation, worry about it then.

Am I missing other interpretations?

[elfin patio]

I hope they keep Genji Default Ow2 skin as his cannon appearence tho

[brittle sky]

I do wonder if they'll update spawn lines at some point, given that while the global crisis-y lines done for ow2 still largely fit for Talon's arc, one presumes at some point they will feel less applicable in a later seasonal arc.

[fathom grove]

I love the New era/New empire skins as a lore-based little thing but I don't see them as canon up-to date apperances, the new "ow2" designs are still that to me and unless they come out with re-re designs always will be

Maybe they are though, I'd love to hear official word on if they are or not

[dense garnet]

I wonder if Anran can actually use Dancing Blaze in canon

Now that feels like magic

[shrewd pivot]

Also yeah. The Colosseo was suggested to be VR suits bc of this poster (you could argue power armor like Reinhardt's or a human suit mecha controlled like MEKA, but the poster has a VR helmet set up imo bc of the similar helmets on both and holo looking gauntlets) , Real Steel combat would have been so cool lol I am sad it ended up just being mostly just actual humans on the field WWE wrestler style stuff in canon, it's a lot more boring making the Colosseo gladiators just actually humans with some bits of armor, instead of a mecha being controlled by VR suit users

Maximus design in full

[little elbow]

Ok let me get this straight Emre is Turkish but the wired shadow cabal that controls him is Finnish? Also that eye is the eye from sombras short

[shrewd pivot]

Yes

The eye conspiracy is most likely related to Chernobog god ai of global security located in Finland

[little elbow]

Oh yeah

From the lore book

And max is also part of this shadow government

So is Chernobog gonna be the new Anubis?

It’s a max move to be on 2 sides at once

[shrewd pivot]

No canon confirmation yet that Maximilien is tied to the eye conspiracy, it's speculation at this point

[little elbow]

He wants Emre for something

I don’t trust him

[shrewd pivot]

Same

[little elbow]

In the sombra short it shows talon is connected to the eye and I think max is the link

Also in polish mythology Chernobog is a god of misfortune

Soo

Is Emre the fusion of human and god program?

[shrewd pivot]

Emre seems to be a cyborg, and the eye conspiracy/Chernobog seems to be hacking to control him.

[little elbow]

Possibly

His ult is possibly not canon?

If it is then that makes god programs ever more dangerous

If they can manifest physical objects

It could be hard light tho

[shrewd pivot]

It's canon that the eye conspiracy is making Emre do things, and if he doesn't follow the urges he blacks out.

https://youtu.be/oP3Pba3mo7M?si=4yHuXIYbMPs90X2T

[little elbow]

The eye seems to take full control in his ult

[shrewd pivot]

My guess is that Emre is maybe a "bad end" version of Sombra, where he tried to escape the eye conspiracy but it got him

[little elbow]

Yeah that could make sense

Btw do you fell bad for sigma

I mean sombra left

And she was his only friend

And now vendetta treats him worse then before

[shrewd pivot]

Sigma doesn't deserve to be distressed, I hope Sombra can help Sigma somehow

[little elbow]

Yeah

He’s just a insane guy who thinks he met the iris at some point

[grave saddle]

Chernobog and Emre gonna pull off a performance of a lifetime against the conspiracy, I can feel it

(Will be proven wrong instantly)

[shrewd pivot]

I have a feeling Chernobog is being used by the eye conspiracy, if Chernobog isn't the eye conspiracy itself.

[grave saddle]

I agree. I don’t think they are gonna pull an Anubis 2.0. I feel like Chernobog will eventually shift control from the conspiracy to purely it and Emre

[little elbow]

It might be some sort of cult

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah either the eye conspiracy is an "illuminati" group cult trope using Chernobog, or Chernobog is the eye conspiracy itself.

[little elbow]

I think Chernobog makes the leader of the conspiracy feel like he’s in charge but Chernobog is in full control