lore-discussion

[shrewd pivot]

it's only been confirmed genetic tech from moira for reaper iirc,

tho i think it's fair to wonder how Reaper's mind stays preserved when he mists up and moves the mist 🤔

[peak escarp]

that's the scifi techmagic at work

[viral pilot]

That's epic. I share one with a guy whose name rhymes with bitler

[peak escarp]

oof

[viral pilot]

So not as great

[shrewd pivot]

also wait did mercy not have nanotechologies...? not like nanites like ramattra but hm maybe im misremembering lemme go check

[peak escarp]

nanobiotics, not nanobots

[shrewd pivot]

ahhhh okok

[peak escarp]

like microbiotics but... nano

[shrewd pivot]

yeah lmao even the wiki says it "Nanobiotics are a field of medical technology pioneered by Angela Ziegler. Despite the technology's namesake, it does not involve nanorobotics or similar technology." i am brainfried today

tho tbf nanobionics irl are about things like organic molecule 'machines' and encapsulating medicines for delivery in the body, so that does make sense why people might want clarification on if it's nano robotics or just full on biology lol

[viral pilot]

Who's your favorite character?

Same! And Winton

[shrewd pivot]

my favs from ow1 were Zenyatta and Lucio :)

[viral pilot]

Back when there were only 5 healers lol

Good times

[peak escarp]

Cassidy is my obvious favourite, but I also like Mei

[viral pilot]

You like sharpshooters

[peak escarp]

nah I just like their characters

I don't play Mei at all

I mostly play Cassidy, Moira and Junkrat

[viral pilot]

And I guess stunlocking if you played back then lol

Oh I see

[peak escarp]

I miss flashbang

they should add a major perk to bring it back

[viral pilot]

As a Winston, I hope not

Respectfully

[peak escarp]

I loved shutting down ults with it

[viral pilot]

I could see it as like a stadium perk

If it isn't already idk I don't play it

[peak escarp]

it's not

[edgy meadow]

they do have magnetic grenade in stadium 🙂

[viral pilot]

Ah

[shrewd pivot]

hmmm I'm not finding anything particular standing out for Domina's birthday maybe im missing something

nothing for Emre either. maybe a "national stem/steam" day is a bit funny for Emre but eh

[azure flint]

waiting on that new emre comic

im obsessed

hes probably my favorite hero rn cuz his design is just so interesting

[grim condor]

"Doctor, are we still meeting for lunch after the Seminar today?"

Please kill me

[gusty cloak]

are we not getting cinematics for the 5 heros released?

they're all such interesting characters i want their origin storiesss

[civic lynx]

Doesn’t seem like it at this rate 😭🙏🏽

[gusty cloak]

its so dissapointing

with the year long story arcs and new season format i thought they would put more focus on lore

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I honestly think origin animatics would serve the new heroes well

https://youtu.be/wyLXzpdgC4s?si=mtV-Otj0xPE-V-BX

[humble wraith]

I’m trying to redesign/revamp an old overwatch OC and I need help trying to figure out her cybernetics

I just got back into overwatch recently so I don’t exactly remember all the types of tech that’s used in lore

[stoic night]

I hope that Microsoft will recognize and reward the amazing momentum of this new season and cut team4 an even bigger check for marketing and extras (cinematics) next year

[civic lynx]

I think they probably will, I’d assume all major companies this year are holding off on spending loads of money in advertising bc GTA 6’s marketing campaign will just overshadow anything they want to promote. Next year we’ll get more cinematics, higher budget season launch trailers etc

[stoic night]

🙏 I’m manifesting this!!

[spare fox]

We will find out in September!! Only 7 months away

[languid kindle]

Juno: You remind me of the rovers back home! They also change their forms depending on the task.
Ramattra: Rovers? sigh Human ignorance is truly boundless.

does anyone know what this means?

[wooden drift]

It means Juno is racist and called Rammatra a slur

[languid kindle]

WHAT

[dense garnet]

Ram is offended that Juno compared him to a machine

It's like the equivalent of comparing a black person to an animal

Juno doesn't understand so it's more ignorance than racism

If you want a true racist in ow, Freja is there

[wooden drift]

Nuh, she didn't even apologised

Juno meant everything she said

[thorny moon]

Picking Talon means you rooted for the lannisters in GoT btw

[viral pilot]

Do you also receive an Emre voiceline for rooting for the Lannisters?

[wise grotto]

Who the hell csred about got in 2026

[dense garnet]

Same people that care about Harry Potter in 2026

[brittle sky]

I uh... Don't think those are identical situations.

[round bramble]

Funny how only Sojorn had a problem with strapping a cat into a jetpack (With NO armour) into an active battlefield.

Brigitte is a closeted cat-hater

[brittle sky]

Not for long. Ram's leveraging her emre apologia to cure her racism. Now that she's drifting towards her face turn they gotta fix her bigotry - ow2 (and likely neo-ow1) seems skittish having broadly sympathetic or protagonistic characters to having bot bigotry.

[sand veldt]

I don’t know enough about their lore to comment that’s why I didn’t bring them up

Although freja is friends with Emre

So she MUST be goated

[silent linden]

That is a compliment

You mean one of the most powerful house in westeros? With literal gold mine and largest military?

[brittle sky]

The second most incestuous in westeros.

[edgy meadow]

theyre pacing the content, the season just started so

if they just dumped all the content on day 1 people would complain theyre doing nothing for 2 months

[peak escarp]

it looks like they're doing a new hero each week

Emre got his lore first

JPC is next

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, Fika is an obese cat it seems, not a fluffy poofy cat like Mitzi, 😔 🙏 she might have 9 lives but the saturated fats in those treats are going to take 8 of them /j

I know we can't take in game lines as hard canon, but it does make it out like that they are planning to have Fika on the battlefield for overwatch in canon and not just a silly jetpack cat pet project that never sees the battlefield.

[wise grotto]

They have implied heavily fika is way more intelligent then a normal cat to

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, which imo would be very stupid writing/implication if a base normal animal in overwatch is like lion king levels sapient lol

I will hold out hope that Fika is not just a normal cat in canon...

It's also like, it's a bit morbid humor here, but toxoplasmosis does cause humans to be more endeared to cats, among other things, it's a byproduct of how it impacts rodents and since humans are mammals too our biological makeup gets some toxoplasmosis crossfire.

That's why "crazy cat lady" (Brigitte is def being written as one for humor now lol) isn't exactly unfounded, human behavior/health is impacted by toxoplasmosis to the point doctors say if a human is pregnant, completely avoid changing out cat litter.

Writers, you might wanna check that litter box routine if you all are worshipping cats over there... JPC isn't good writing as your toxoplasmosis induced normal cat worship /j

Inb4 the true eye conspiracy is just Fika endearing everyone to her whims /j

[edgy meadow]

murphy and mitzi just seem like regular ass animals

even moira points out that fika is unusually intelligent and adaptable

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

Thus my hope about fika not being just a normal cat

[bold fern]

why does domina need heels shes levitating

[shrewd pivot]

Flaunting status by wearing expensive clothing / facade of perfection.

If writers had any cultural indication, it could be funny bc in India it's common to take off shoes to show respect like in temples etc, and Domina has the "I am holier than thou" bit with her attitude and multiple arms imagery (multiple arms imagery is used to depict gods in Hinduism)-- her wearing shoes while floating gives off a "you are filth beneath me, not only do i not touch the ground you walk on, i wear shoes more expensive than your bloodline over the space between us (i do not respect even the air you breathe)" vibe

But I doubt that's the writers intention, idk how much cultural context thought they put into Domina, she's probably just wearing heels bc "CEO lady" aesthetics

[peak escarp]

a lot of the things you come up with aren't the writer's intention

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, yeah. I'm just enjoying analysis of the media: Making a distinction of what is the writer's intention, vrs what isn't the writer's intention.

Domina has extra arms bc Vishkar is an Indian company, and Hinduism depicts gods with multiple arms. That's a cultural motif already, and I think anyone saying "oh! Domina has a cultural religion motif!" wouldn't be wrong, floating with multiple arms is the Hinduism equivalent of like Mercy having angel wings. Domina's floating+arms+personality creates a "I am holier than thou" look which is intentional.

I was just saying if the writer had cultural context it could come off that way about why she wears shoes, but it's probably not that bc writers kinda... flub cultural context sometimes, like with Anran and Wuyang for example. She's probably just wearing heels bc "CEO lady", nothing more.

TLDR; it COULD have been a cool culture nuance, but most likely isn't.

[edgy meadow]

i think the hypocricy of the design fits the image of a vishkar leader/ceo character that ultimately values profit and status over culture and values

[shrewd pivot]

For sure, her design could read as a mortal that /bought/ 'godhood',

Edit: as in, a fakeness that shows she is shallow in what she values

[edgy meadow]

yes, or one that only 'pretends' to care about her culture in the face of being an elite

[shrewd pivot]

Yep!

Especially in the face of Symmetra, who actively practices Kathak dances-- a practice of temple dances that tell stories of Hindu scriptures

Domina is a faker, and Symmetra is a genuine embracer of the arts/culture.

[shrewd pivot]

Unrelated I think Trenchcoat omnic will eat at the back of my mind for the rest of the year lol

Will the trenchcoat omnic character be a sophisticated Sherlock dandy vibe, or a hardboiled messy Columbo/Dr.House vibe.... or some secret third thing....

[brittle sky]

Mobnic

[spring agate]

Does hog hating omnics effectively make him racist

[young dragon]

Speciest, but yes. He hates his people and himself more.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, Anti-omnic is more akin to specism than racism imo.

Awakened Omnics and robots aren't human, and are stronger than humans.

It's definitely bigotry to be anti-omnic, but racism is more so based on vague cultural groups rather than any justifiable reasons like how omnics can be theoretically hacked and turned into metal terminators at a moments notice

[young dragon]

Remember that Mako was a terrorist rebel whose faction had their goals literally meltdown as a result of their actions.

He’s no Junker. He despises them and mainly filled with a resigned quiet vengeance.

By contrast, people generally respect or fear Roadhog. He was always somewhat known by people then isolated himself for a while and became somewhat of a local boogie man.

Only his friend Bruce, and then (shortly after) Jamison got him out of his funk. And the man proceeded to cause a worldwide series of successful heists.
Hog’s a selfish mutant at this point, but good at what he does while filled with a desire for greedy revenge.

[spring agate]

never thought about that distinction. but yeah, being made of metal is probably enough to not be considered a race of human, even if theyre sentient

[spring agate]

thats sad. ill have to love him for him

[young dragon]

If you want to get into his mindset, read “Wasted Land.” It’s not long and kind of explains his point of view because he’s narrating it.

[spring agate]

i gaslit myself into thinking hog's new skin was frog themed because i always call him ToadFrog as a joke

its not tho, its pig themed. tho tbh a raincoat probably suits a frog better

[cloud canyon]

so is Jetpack Cat a secret genius like Hammond or is there just a straight up animal on the battlefield now

[somber nova]

No its a stupid ugly stray

[cloud canyon]

Straight up animal abuse

Moira would approve

[wise grotto]

Except none of its been confirmed and every things pointing to the cat being far more adaptable and intelligent then the average cat anyway

Hammond is the same thing Winston is he’s not a secret genius he just is a genius

[spring agate]

is winston only secretly a genius? i thought the whole idea is hes a scientist

[wise grotto]

No he’s also not a secret genius hence why I said Hammond is the same thing as Winston
They’re both just super genius animals who come from the same experiment that was done in space

[spring agate]

oh i see

people are saying that the name jetpack cat is lazy but like. every overwatch character uses a codename so

[wise grotto]

I mean Hammond created an ai that translates for him to English cause he doesn’t have as advanced of a voice box as Winston

[elfin patio]

Hey guys

[wise grotto]

Yea this is just the code name referencing what 9 years of referencing a piece of art is

[elfin patio]

I think I've figured who the new Omnic Hero may be

I think it's Lynx Seventeen

[edgy tree]

Man the new Sigma kill lines are so sad

[spring agate]

i dont know any in-universe characters that arent already playable. except like, B.O.B or the doctor from the moon

[wise grotto]

There’s a lot

[spring agate]

definitely, i just dont know them

[edgy tree]

If Sombra: but... I still need you / where have you gone my friend!

[wise grotto]

Kirikos entire gang both other members of ventures group we see a few hashinoto members including one that’s named

Kirikos father the dude who’s made 4 of the in game characters weapons

[elfin patio]

Lynx Seventeen appeared in Overwatch HQ Searching,with Zarya. He was a hacker contracted by Katya Volskaya for tracking Sombra, the hacker who blackmailed her.

[spring agate]

do we know anything about the omnic hero other than them being an omnic

[edgy tree]

If he Kills Vendetta RELEASE ME! YOU WILL RELEASE ME!

[elfin patio]

In the end, Lynx suffers impactual damage from a warehouse explosion, even though he is saved by Zarya

That may be why he's using a cane and hiding his identity in spy aesthetic

[spring agate]

vendetta is gonna be lucky if sigma doesnt hit the sans special on her after this arc ends and doom boots her out

[wise grotto]

He might be lynx the oerso this guys referencing

[elfin patio]

Omnic, cane, spy aesthetic

[edgy tree]

I'd love to see him slam her into several walls on the way out

[elfin patio]

I hope it is

[spring agate]

that sounds like your guess is pretty likely then. if theyre a hacker that suits being a spy

[elfin patio]

I mean nobody is talking about Lynx

And he was pretty awaited back in time

[spring agate]

her brain is gonna be more scrambled than his

[elfin patio]

He was in the list alongside Jetpack Cat

[elfin patio]

There's just two problems

and one was a response

[edgy tree]

You wanted to use me for my powers? Here take them

And she just goes completely insane

[wise grotto]

If the response was from a while ago thag he wouldn’t jpc being in the game means we have no reason to trust the old tesms statements

[elfin patio]

I meant has a response

[spring agate]

Anyone else notice the new genji pass skin is riffing a lot on raiden from metal gear? I’m allowed to talk about that in this chat bc it’s a canon skin design

[elfin patio]

1: Lynch has twin antennas in top of his head. The response to that is that maybe the Devs didn't want it to be obvious that it was going to be Lynx 17, as his design is pretty unique. So they gave him that hat he's using

[edgy tree]

I like it personally

Same with the tracer one

[spring agate]

I do like it, just noticed they def took some inspiration from raiden. Metal jaw, high heels, visible spine on the back

[edgy tree]

Yeah for sure

Looks too similar to be a coincidence

[elfin patio]

The other thing is more problematic: Lynch has only 3 holes in his forehead in the HQ. The new omnic has 8 holes

[spring agate]

I like that the new era skins give overwatch a unified look. They actually look like a superhero team

Well actually I guess superhero teams are usually pretty eclectic, but you get what I mean

[edgy tree]

I love seeing my boy Lucio getting some love and finally getting an ow skin

[elfin patio]

So it could be entirely another omnic guy

which would be cool too, because sincerely overwatch need more omnics

they are the whole point of the troupe and still a minority since the base game 💀

[spring agate]

The new talon skins having a visibly different aesthetic to the old ones is a good touch too. Shows talon is run by someone new, and vendetta definitely imposed some gladiator styling on their uniforms lol

[spring agate]

Yeah robots are cool anyway, why not have more

[elfin patio]

Damn I don't think that's gonna last

You see

Old Talon kind of sold Overwatch

[edgy tree]

Hell and the point of why overwatch is a thing

[elfin patio]

Fr

[spring agate]

Are they there to watch over the oppressed omnics

[elfin patio]

I need a overwatch youtuber to make a video talking about how Lynx 17 could be the new omnic

[spring agate]

I never played this game when it cost money so I’m not up on the early lore

[elfin patio]

Nobody is talking about this and it really could come true

[elfin patio]

Nope

I mean, the omnics rebelled and there was a great war that almost extincted humanity

Then Overwatch came and fought back with magic-like tech, field experience, and hope

Overwatch became the world most important organization, filliated with ONU and everything else, after ending the Omnic War

[spring agate]

So are they like. What’s their actual defined purpose, are they superheroes or government agents or both or what

[elfin patio]

It's a international millitary operation funded by ONU

It's like the United Nations Army or something

[spring agate]

but they dont seem to personally equip the agents with their abilities, aside from arming them. they just recruit people who are already exceptional

[elfin patio]

Kind of

The founding members are the initially playable characters

They were the most exceptional members of each country during the Omnic War

Cientists, Fighters, Soldiers and so

Just like Gabriel Reyes and Jack Morrison, respectives Reaper and Soldier 76, were both from USA, were both Super Soldiers experimented on, they were a duo who were the ones actually fighting back the Omnics in the USA, and they were recruited when the idea of forming a team came

[spring agate]

Wonder what’s up with hero shooters liking to have their heroes identifiably from a certain part of the world. Like, nothing wrong with it, but tf2 and overwatch both have these kinda cartoony international characters

[elfin patio]

That's for sells mate

"Heh that blondy looks like me. He's also from Australia. He also speaks my accent. I'm gonna play it"

[spring agate]

Yeah spreads out the appeal I guess

[elfin patio]

Theres actually not much lore about the whole super soldiers thing btw 💀

they just landed that information

[spring agate]

Oh yeah, like soldier 76 and reaper right?

[elfin patio]

Blizzard still hasn't defined if there's like mutants or so

[elfin patio]

yup they boh were supersoldiers from usa

[spring agate]

Oooh a bio weapon hero would be cool… but blizzard doesn’t have the balls to put in a gross disfigured character I bet

[elfin patio]

they have the exact opposite 💀

Lifeweaver

he has a biotech that allows for life growing

and he looks like a fairy

so it's rpetty much the opposite of a bioweapon

[spring agate]

Put in a support who attaches parasites to enemies and allies with positive effects for your own team. Make him spit acid. Go crazy with it

[elfin patio]

Actually this would work nicely

Venom ripoff

Overwatch still needs a symbiont-like character so

You see there's a lot of gold hiding in lore, a lot of untouched characters with cool premises

[spring agate]

I guess venom is probably the most appealing version of a hideous bio weapon character so yeah, they’d probably do like league and have a hot woman in a tight suit and just go “oh yeah she’s a scary mutant for sure, people are scared of her, trust us”

[elfin patio]

lol

[elfin patio]

for starters

did you know Genji has a sword master ?

and he's also still active

[spring agate]

That’s cool and makes sense

[elfin patio]

yeah

Doomfist is the one who spilled the beans about him

[spring agate]

Probably won’t get a melee dps again for a while since they did vendetta not long ago

[elfin patio]

there's some lines about Doom asking for Genji's master

[elfin patio]

Actually

Since OW has to compete with Marvel Rivals

and Rivals has a lot of meelee characters

it would be really wise to launch a fast-sword character just like Blade from Rivals

[spring agate]

You have a good point tbh, they’ve already taken heavy inspo with the new heroes

[elfin patio]

yeah

[spring agate]

First ever infinite flight character, plus she has a kidnap ultimate

Domina’s basic fire is like ultron’s

[elfin patio]

infinite flight would be a slap in Pharah's face

[brittle sky]

What. We know genji's sword master. We've seen her in a conematic

[elfin patio]

Though they will probably rework her

[elfin patio]

link ?

[spring agate]

Not would be then, it is. They just added that cat

[elfin patio]

oh that's Kiriko mother you are saying ?

[elfin patio]

Damn

[brittle sky]

It's aza, kiriko's mom. She was the sword master for the shimada and trained both the brothers.

[elfin patio]

Yes yes

[brittle sky]

Doom was referencing her in his talk with genji

[elfin patio]

I think I forgot that it was a female master

[spring agate]

Well now she’s definitely not getting in. No way they add two women with swords as dps that close together

[elfin patio]

I don't think she's coming as a playable hero for at least 6 months from here

After all those teased characters, who knows

[brittle sky]

We do have figures for the next year

[spring agate]

if they do add a paraside oriented character i hope they do something really strange but itll probably be a hot lady

[elfin patio]

Blizzard really don't wanna make magic true in Overwatch. But they could aim for aliens, that's what I have always thought. Still there's nothing about any of this

[brittle sky]

It's very possible Moira gets her hands on some sep next season, and she's bio weapon McGee, so maybe give her a year and she churns out a proper bio monster hero

[elfin patio]

Only Luna and she's just a human born in Mars so

[spring agate]

i would love an alien hero. juno is already extremely appealing to me for her goofy retro future astronaut aesthetic with the moon boots and ray gun (to the point where i feel strongly none of her skins are better than default) but getting aliens in the game would be even better

[brittle sky]

As in a non human born on not earth?

[elfin patio]

yeah

like weird aliens

that would be so cool

[brittle sky]

We want to be cheeky, we have two of those

[spring agate]

not just non human but like. visibly a strange non earth creature

and not a robot. biological creature

[elfin patio]

you mean wenton don't you 💀

[spring agate]

and not an earth animal

[elfin patio]

and also the ball

[spring agate]

look when i say alien and you think of a gleepglorp green guy i basically just mean that

[elfin patio]

Oh her name is Juno sorry. I never played with her

I don't think I have ever played Vendetta, Juno or any of the new champions since idk

[brittle sky]

Would radically change the parameters of the setting, yeah? Like there being extrasolar intelligent and no matter how weird conveniently convergent life would be a huge shift to the setting.

[elfin patio]

Have never played Overwatch for a long time

[spring agate]

juno has the best weapon design in the game bc its simultaneously a ray gun and a medical injector, which duly suits its purpose as a weapon and healing gun

mizuki has the worst weapon design in the game because its a mess of nonsense

[edgy meadow]

considering that humanity and global order is a primary theme in the overarching narrative overwatch, i think introducing aliens would just muddle the mixture

the mars and lunar colonies are about the best ways i think they can explore space

[spring agate]

theres robots in the game tho

and animals

[edgy meadow]

yes robots that are product of humanity's hubris

[spring agate]

ok so the alien shows up bc humans pissed it off, now its thematically relevant there you go

[edgy meadow]

and of course theres animals, but the two animals we've had for the longest time are, again, product of human negligence

fika is new and mysterious but im willing to bet that her story will differ, but retain simillar themes

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-hat-smol-gif-16247795867102792011

if youre willing to be this obtuse with the reasoning then sure

anyway

[broken eagle]

Im waiting for new emre interactions and lore

[spring agate]

im willing to be completely absurd in my reasoning, i love aliens and that bias can accomplish anything

[edgy meadow]

overwatch players like different things than rivals players, and the games themselves are very different in feel and general playstyles. Vendetta was already kind of a daring design considering how much people historically hate melee dive and tanky characters in overwatch

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12689492270088977172

[brittle sky]

Honestly, I don't think an extraterrestrial would accomplish any niche we couldn't get from either a Moira creation (weird organic being) or gwishin (truly alien intelligence and no adherence to humanoid body plans)

[elfin patio]

like why would people hate melee dive and tanky characters

makes no sense at all

[spring agate]

we already have reaper for a moira experiment

[elfin patio]

vendetta was a huge success

[edgy meadow]

people hate playing against vendetta but they love playing as vendetta

she gets banned pretty ofte

[spring agate]

thats the mark of a highly successful pvp champion

[edgy meadow]

so often in fact that the devs openly said that its starting to eliviate the sombra ban problem

😭

[spring agate]

just ask league players, they have a laundry list of champions theyd delete forever

[brittle sky]

Melee DPS are hugely feast or famine. Either they close the gap and they win and that's frustrating for their target, or they can't close gsp get shot to death and that frustrating for the melee. Vendetta rn errs on the side of the former, and that's how the split lies atm.

[elfin patio]

isn't she just a new character ?

every new DPS character gets banned a lot

[edgy meadow]

shes relatively new yes, but also very powerful and, again, has a playstyle that people hate

[brittle sky]

Thought you said you never played her

[edgy meadow]

this isnt my opinion,i dont mind playing vs. vendetta, but its just the reality

the devs are going to struggle with vendetta hate for a while

[elfin patio]

never and even i can still see how vendetta is a huge success

[edgy meadow]

even if shes a much more successful iteration of the concept than dps doomfist

[elfin patio]

it's pretty obvious

[brittle sky]

I don't think your observation is supported in play experience or popular sentiment.

[spring agate]

vendetta is a dps diver whos cool and hot, so that checks pretty much every box for a big hit hero game character

[elfin patio]

you can think whatever you may like, it's still true

[shrewd pivot]

Devs confirmed alien lifeforms (like green space aliens) do not exist in overwatch. The only "aliens" we can get are space colony characters of animal experiments like Winston, Martians like Juno, and maybe an omnic from space if they wanted, but devs confirms no aliem life originating outside of earth exists.

It's very funny bc Mina Liao's parent was an alien chaser/believer lmafo the parent was completely wrong then according to devs

[elfin patio]

like 💀

[edgy meadow]

a character can be a success and still gets hated enough so that her ban rate is a problem

the two are not mutually exclusive statements

[spring agate]

lame

[brittle sky]

Honestly, I'd compare her negatively to DPS doom on play as, with, and against fronts.

[elfin patio]

That's so sad actually

[spring agate]

fine, aliens from another dimension then. mirrorwatch exists, so alternate realities do too

[median orchid]

Do they exist in Starwatch?

[edgy meadow]

i disagree, but my opinion is besides the point of the matter

[shrewd pivot]

Starwatch is just a fun au, like how dokiwatch is

[brittle sky]

Burden of proof is on you to say she's a huge success and then offer no evidence, much less if you expect that statement to countermand actual experience.

[edgy meadow]

vendetta being hated and often-banned is an actual fact

[median orchid]

Yeah speaking on the level of them possible existing in a AU

[spring agate]

does dokiwatch include all the anime skinlines like ultrawatch

[elfin patio]

Why would I want to prove somethingthat is already a proven fact for people that I don't know or care at all what they think ?

[shrewd pivot]

Also nitpicking I know,
But just for canon info:

Venture, Lynx Seventeen, and Nameless all use they/them pronouns.

[edgy meadow]

no

dokiwatch is specifically the magical girl theme of season 18

[brittle sky]

Sure. Just a side point as someone who played through initial doom release that I personally found how his combos strung and the plays and counter plays around him more clear and satisfying.

[spring agate]

speaking of which, i really love ultrawatch. tokusatsu my beloved

[elfin patio]

You can have your opinion for whatever's sake, i don't care enough to try and convince you 💀

Vendetta is a huge success for overwatch

and you won't change that questioning me

[brittle sky]

It's not proven if you never proved it. You're presupposing your conclusion.

[shrewd pivot]

Cosmic crisis is an au with cosmic Ravager alien (technically eldritch horrors are aliens), and starwatch is a starwars inspired au with aliens, yep!

[elfin patio]

Well mate just open youtube and search for Overwatch one day

[edgy meadow]

as some thats also played through initial doom release, he was definitely a lot more infuriating due to a) actually having an insta kill in several parts of his kit, b) supports being a lot weaker at the time and c) hackfist comps being a famously toxic counter-meta strat

[elfin patio]

you'll find it oneday, just need a little believing

[shrewd pivot]

By success do you mean players like Vendetta's kit?

[edgy meadow]

dps doomfist was pretty fun to play as, though

[elfin patio]

I think they are more into her kit but i mean more overall

[spring agate]

players like vendetta in general. not wanting to play against her is a moot point bc she wouldnt be banned if she wasnt popular enough to warrant it

[edgy meadow]

sombra is very unpopular and still has an absurdly high ban rate

[elfin patio]

i won't discuss her kit into details because personally i ain't much to talk about it

[edgy meadow]

a lot of people ban without numerical justification, they just see a character icon and wanna make the x on it in the ban phase

[spring agate]

look, i was hearing about vendetta on twitter when i wasnt even playing overwatch. people like her design a LOT

[edgy meadow]

the design is cool

and i think shes an overall great addition

[elfin patio]

that is true

personally i don't like her design 💀 but peeps like it

[edgy meadow]

btu this is not mutually exclusive to the fact that theres also a lot of hate to the character

[spring agate]

definitely. but im certain she is more loved than hated

[elfin patio]

i think she's just generic latin girl with red color

but peeps really like that

[edgy meadow]

hard to say

but i can see it

[elfin patio]

so go on i guess

[edgy meadow]

https://gifconvert.vxtwitter.com/convert.avif?url=https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/HAQvtyGWQAAThA4.mp4

[spring agate]

look im not gonna get into it, but overwatch fans have a reputation for certain fixations and i think vendetta plays into them a lot

[elfin patio]

i may be holding a lil grudge from all the killing doomfist stuff still

[edgy meadow]

'a lil grudge'

[elfin patio]

you mean nsfw stuff ?

i haven't looked into that yet 💀

[brittle sky]

Honestly haven't even seen much horniness for her, but I'm only on the public space so maybe the sfm crowd is going off

[elfin patio]

wdym

[spring agate]

i havent looked into it either, but there was a viral tweet when she was revealed that i almost definitely cant quote here implying shes a certain type of industry plant in the nsfw regard and i honestly believe it

[elfin patio]

LOL

actually overwatch's been defeated over that

whatever it may be, marvel rivals is miles in front of overwatch rn

[spring agate]

"defeated" bro thats like half their game's reputation, they should be thanking them LMAO

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/dislike-gif-25989226

[elfin patio]

lol

[edgy meadow]

anyway

[elfin patio]

i may be talking stuff that i dunno btw about this whole nsfw thing

but the rivals thing is getting bigger than it was supposed to be anyway

or maybe it was supposed to be like that

creeps stuff

[spring agate]

yeah idk how allowed this topic is but in fairness it is pretty relevant to the internet's perception of the game

[elfin patio]

i dont understand what your saying mate, explain yourself

[edgy meadow]

all i wanted to say is that i think its overall wiser and more benefitial of both games to not step into each other's specific habits too much

[shrewd pivot]

I think her writing fell very flat, only the most recent comic "Vengeance comes" gave Vendetta the care for her writing to have "show don't tell"

She needs spinal armor if she is a nonaugmented human for her design to make sense

They severely straightened her curly hair from her concept arts which is texturism

And despite having Roman inspired studded shoes, her footsteps do not indicate this at all (apparently she did not have proper footsteps in prior game tests lol) -- i personally think her footsteps should be louder considering her mobility.

I also think she falls into a negative racial stereotype, the writers said her emotions are meant to be empowering as a villainess but "angry Italian lady + Italian = mafia" trope is a very negative stereotype. I dislike that she combines Roman empire + mafia + star wars fascist imagery which then illicits Italian fascist imagery, it's a very sloppy combination of ideas.

I like her voice actress, and I think the darksaber sword is cool but that's about all I can say is "great" about Vendetta imo

[edgy meadow]

if overwatch does too many rival things and rival does too many overwatch things people are going to complain

bc ow players dont like rivals and vice verca

[spring agate]

i agree. inspiration is fine, but they should be distinct

[elfin patio]

they straghtened her curly hair ? thats messed up

i didn't knew that

[edgy meadow]

rivals players love the melee dive characters, ow players not as much

overwatch players like pushed, high lethal supports, rival players not as much

and so forth

[spring agate]

i think a game like overwatch can do any idea once but yeah relying on an archetype largely enjoyed in rivals would be bad

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah in 2d concept art she had curly hair. The only og curls that remain are the two forehead strands :(

[elfin patio]

were you on overwatch/paladins when the hero shooter war started?

[edgy meadow]

i was on overwatch, yes

[elfin patio]

so you'll get what i mean

there's no respect

when two companies fight each other like this

[edgy meadow]

i get what you mean

and im not talking about respect

this isnt a matter of respect between the devs

[spring agate]

the only thing id like them to largely adopt from rivals is willingness to fudge the style rules on skins a bit more. rein being a big demon but no actually hes a demon in a big suit that looks like a demon. like what are we doing here

[elfin patio]

it's just bloody carnage and marketing tricks

[edgy meadow]

this is a matter of knowing what your players like and dislke now that we are not in an era where this genre of games is being invented

[elfin patio]

it should be

[edgy meadow]

this is not 2016

[brittle sky]

Saying there's a war between overwatch and paladins implies there was a competition.

[elfin patio]

it should be about following what the players would like

[spring agate]

rivals also leans more into basic fire/ attacks being powers a lot more than overwatch, which usually makes basic fire a weapon

[elfin patio]

but it won't be

it never been like this

for any of the games included in the hero shooter war

[edgy meadow]

it evidently already is

[elfin patio]

it's always about survivality of the game, which game has more shit, which game gets the more money

[edgy meadow]

if it wasnt then overwatch teamfights would have already started to get slower, or vice verca

[elfin patio]

that's why vendetta was first ever released

[edgy meadow]

rival devs know that rival players dont want overwatch

[elfin patio]

as a ripoff from marvel rivals's meele characters style

[spring agate]

thats why they add so many japanese heroes. theyre always popular in games

[edgy meadow]

and overwatch devs know what the people who have been playing the game for 10 years like

this isnt about that at all

this isnt the same era

this isnt the same mindset

[elfin patio]

nah

this is just fairies and dream lands mate

whatever one game has, in the next years the other game will be having too

that's what's happening

that's the sole reason why overwatch got that big update btw

because rivals was such a success overwatch had to do something

it had all that background on the team following the steps from before overwatch 2, yes

but it all wouldn't even have happened without marvel rivals

[spring agate]

i think overwatch pushing back was inevitable tbh. they were sitting comfortably as the only real option and now they have to fight for their spot

[edgy meadow]

now that you touched on that youre gonna get me yapping

[spring agate]

this is a case where i think the competition is a very good thing. overwatch got lazy, they didnt do as much as they could and it made the game worse

[elfin patio]

that too makes a piece of the cake

there's no "overwatch players like that and dislike this"

there's just the new mechanics blizzard >will< be adhering to their game

[spring agate]

yeah if i know big companies, overwatch's biggest priority is gonna be keeping all this new attention they just got on them, even if it means making changes old players dont like

[elfin patio]

as marvel will adhere to theirs too once they get to look what blizzard will be doing

just a cycle

[elfin patio]

that's really messed up i feel bad fr

like what was the last curlyhead character

and really curlyhead

[spring agate]

never?

[elfin patio]

ramattra 💀

[brittle sky]

Requires rivals devs "mute audio at low health" to know what lessons to pilfer.

[spring agate]

i gotta say, this whole bug with getting rewards is probably not good for overwatch coming back. but i guess if its fixed tomorrow it wont be a big deal

[shrewd pivot]

If you are implying some kind of dominant lady boss as waifu bait, Vendetta is legit a worse version of JunkerQueen. Vendetta's 3d model couldn't decide if Vendetta would be a petite mafia princess or a big lady with a big sword, so it looks awkwardly proportioned and Vendetta's skull looks too tiny for overwatch shape use standards imo (actually this is a recent issue with new models. Wuyang, Mizuki, and Vendetta have tinier skull to body proportions that don't match overwatch's shape use style imo)

Sauceless Italian aura farmer played straight as a mafia mob boss, vs sauced up JunkerQueen campy "mob" boss that kicks ass and takes names and is allowed to have scars? Yeah. JunkerQueen does the tropes better imo bc its more playful and in line with Overwatch's fun side.

Vendetta's design could have been a lot better imo.

If you want to talk "waifu bait" characters, Domina is very much Emma Frost vibes while litterally being named Domina(trix). Idgaf about that tho, I personally have been wanting a 💅 high femme MOTHER IN CHARGE character in overwatch roster so I love the camp Domina brings.

[elfin patio]

Maybe Rival's fucked my head already but I don't see many of those female characters as pornbait tbh

Domina I do

[spring agate]

can i dm you smth real quick? im not gonna get my point across without saying it outright and i dont think i can here lol

[edgy meadow]

okay so

right off that, im not gonna bullshit you - rivals had an influence. But i think people mistake how much of an influence it has because the internet has the memory of a goldfish and the continuity sense of a toddler.

The beginning of the pushback from overwatch happened soon after rivals launched. With the addition of perks, announcement of stadium and all the other new additions in the s15 spotlight event. All of these systems have been in the works for literal years, before we even know what rivals was, let alone how successful it ended up being.

The success of rivals over the following year most likely gave a greater incentive, and was likely used as an excuse by the devs to get more budgets for the updates and content this year. But this isnt just about rivals - the devs already have expectations they have to meet, and companies rarely like to stagnate. Eventually they would have pushed back and tried to clear the game of overwatch because, if they didnt, blizzard executives would lose hope in the franchise.

plus, not expecting overwatch to do anything for its 10th year anniversary is naive at best.

as for the natural question of 'why didnt the team do anything sooner?', the simple reason was because they needed time. A lot of the old ow team had left or got forcedfully fired after the pve flop, and that included many people in the higher up executives of the company, especially after the SA accusations started being outted from the company and dev team. The game got a brand new director, franchise manager, lead developer, and many other new staff. This level of adaptation to a new game dev team takes a long ass time, especially when the expectation is to maintain a triple A, live service game project like OW. So even if they wanted to, and they probably did, they couldnt have possibly pushed back and popped off with content sooner than 2025, the year which coincidentally happened to have Rivals come out

[elfin patio]

Kiriko, Domina and the new fire girl, they are steriotypes of very sexualized in-game female bodies

kiriko and fire girl the ... problematic type and domina the big woman type

but tbh i really didn't catch the fire with vendetta

[spring agate]

domina might be the most on the nose name possible for that character

[shrewd pivot]

Uh Sure, but only if you are above 21, i don't want to be dming about such topics with youth.

[spring agate]

i am 24

[elfin patio]

📜

[edgy meadow]

i told you youd get me yapping

[shrewd pivot]

That's a bit rude, people are just trying to communicate.

[edgy meadow]

anyway i dont have as much to say about the current topic bc i agree, there are a lot of sexualized tropes being used

as for why, and by whose directions, i cant tell you

[elfin patio]

i'm just bs'ing tbh, don't take it too seriously

[latent lark]

how about I change the topic to a more interesting one? The conspiracy in control of Emre

[edgy meadow]

as much as im usually one to think that people blame sexualization in cases where it doesnt make sense

[elfin patio]

actually i would love to hear about that mate

since i haven't heard much

[latent lark]

YESSS because Ive made a wev

web*

[edgy meadow]

a web?

[latent lark]

oh I cant post images

[edgy meadow]

dm it to me ill post it

[latent lark]

ok one sec

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/green-alien-cat-green-alien-green-cat-alien-gif-721538137659195618

[spring agate]

it also takes over echo when she copies his ult

[elfin patio]

blizzard always does that mate, overwatch's been in a inner drama for ages, ever since jeff kaplan to whoever may be in charge rn it's been a administration nightmare and there were always people trying to justifiy overwatch's lazyness and mediocreness with those "bad decision handcuffing us!". there's always this story.

as i said, "it had all that background on the team following the steps from before overwatch 2, yes". there ain't even much to yap about that, it's just the same company drama that every blizzard online game has

marvel rivals was in fact one of the main factors causing this huge update

it's exhausting to hear about allat company beefs. fuck that we just want the game to be playable

one thing doens't justifiy the other

[edgy meadow]

the reason i care about the details of this that much is because i feel like it takes away the credit from the independant willingness of new team 4 to make the game good

in many ways its used to imply that the team doesnt care and wouldnt care if rivals didnt exist

which is why i disagree with it so

the new team is different

@latent lark 's infographic about emre

[wise grotto]

The guy who’s incharge rn has been workin his ass off to make up for the shit jeff and the old blizz ceo fucked up regarding Overwatch

[spring agate]

how long before overwatch adds previous pass skins to the lootboxes as a way for new and returning players to catch up? i feel its possible since there's a distinct wave of new players

[elfin patio]

that's nice

but i think i won't ever give overwatch my hopes again

a mess needs to be treated like a mess

i don't care about what they plan to do, if they plan to undo all the ow 2 shits, they should have done allat 8 years ago when overwatch was still at it's peak

[peak escarp]

OW2 didn't exist 8 years ago

[elfin patio]

they should have taken care of the game to not turn it into such a shit show

[wise grotto]

Like
That doesn’t even work as a statement

[elfin patio]

yeah yeah i know

[wise grotto]

None of the people there now incharge did that shit

[elfin patio]

what i meant is that overwatch should have been a functional game all along so it doesn't needed the launch of overwatch 2

[wise grotto]

Like at bare minimum your saying the people currently in charge should have fixed a bunch of mistakes two greedy idiots caused before the people incharge now did anything

[elfin patio]

and that's where the problem starts, nerds

[peak escarp]

also, why are you complaining about this in the lore channel?

[edgy meadow]

it didnt, i agree

[peak escarp]

let's get the conversation back on topic please

[edgy meadow]

we're just waiting for pastelpunk to drop his loredump

[elfin patio]

would you care to read the upper messages ?

[peak escarp]

I did read it

I don't see how this is relevant to the lore

[latent lark]

• so to explain, the Conspiracy was first shown in the Sombra origin story after she attempts to hack into Lumerico, this is mostly not touched up on until years later during the Overwatch short story "Lucky man" where Soldier 76 was revealed to have been in contact with Sombra and she led him to the remains of the Swiss overwatch headquarters that blew up

• Sombra then points Soldier 76 into the direction of Oasis. and also painted heavy emphasis on the tall tower seen being built on that map. Moira also works for Oasis although her knowledge on the Conspiracy is not specified

• On soldiers way Sombra asks him to deliver a virus to Illiari in Runasapi during the short story "Future's Past" Illiari and Soldier break into a Oasis base in the town and its revealed that they had gotten information on the Inti warriors history and tech which Sombra gave Illiari the virus to Erase all of it. Soldier then starts to put together the fact that Overwatch and the Inti Warriors were both organizations built apon the foundation of helping the world only to be wiped out in a explosion

• next of course is Venture and Talon. Venture's comic "Tangle with Talon" reveales that Doomfist is looking for an ancient Ruin and Venture stops the attempts Talon makes to steal the ruins. Venture then puts together that a odd "Conspiracy" is going on which Sombra then reveals that she will keep in touch. later in the hero trailer "venture's Adventures" Venture has a similar Eye disc to the one Sombra gave Soldier

• Finally is Emre and Chernabog, Emre left Overwatch sometime before the explosion and he says he has zero memory of what happened after he left. We see Emre has the conspiracy eye on his chest and when it takes control it speaks Finnish.

• on the overwatch website Emre has a section all glitched out but when translated the first line mentions Chernabog one of the four god programs (including Anubis) Chernabog was based in Finland as well

[edgy meadow]

also lowk this channel is better than #general-discussion #overwatch and #overwatch-serious i will be doing al lof my yapping here

[elfin patio]

so you didn't 💀 we was talking about what lore changes will be added, it culminated to vendetta as a success in the overall and then the inevitable topic about overwatch fall as a whole

[latent lark]

my theory is Emre was sent to Talon by the conspiracy to watch Doomfist carry out the duties the Conspiracy tasked him with but since he's now "dead" and Vendetta is runing the show the Conspiracy is keeping a closer watch on her

[elfin patio]

they are all connected topics

you can't talk about what will be overwatch in the future if you don't talk about what was overwatch

[peak escarp]

you seemed to be talking more about Overwatch the game

[elfin patio]

and i really don't like it when someone appears in the gc out of nowhere and tries to take a singular message of mine out of context tbh

[peak escarp]

how the devs are screwing things up

[elfin patio]

brb i'll be reading pastelpunks text

[peak escarp]

Anyway, why do we think Doomfist is connected to the Conspiracy?

[latent lark]

mainly because he was the one who tasked Mauga with digging up the ruins

in Illios

[peak escarp]

what do the ruins have to do with the Conspiracy?

[latent lark]

Venture figuring out there was a conspiracy based on talon digging up ruins and shortly after Sombra appearing. also in Venture's hero trailer the Conspiracy disk showed up

[peak escarp]

we don't know where Venture got that disc

[latent lark]

and when Venture asks Doom in an interaction he tells them to mind their business

they werent looking for tresure they were looking for something specific

[dense garnet]

What does the AI on JPC say when you select her ingame?

[latent lark]

we just dont know what it was but since Sombra and Venture both interact shortly after it must mean it has something to do with the Conspiracy

[elfin patio]

the evil finnish enemy

[cunning ledge]

Feline Interface Active

it's in swedish

[elfin patio]

that's all CRAZY dude i didn't know soldier was too involved in allat. there's been years since i last saw updates on soldier's whatdoings

[latent lark]

Chernabog interestingly wasnt evil tho, he was a god program who loved his humans and when he was shut down even gave them instructions on how to continue his job and even apologized Its final words were "i understand. i'm sorry."

[dense garnet]

Yeah Chernobog imo isn't allied with the Conspiracy

Chernobog in fact is in opposition of them

[elfin patio]

Interesting

You are getting this from the recent comics ?

[latent lark]

yeah I think hes just being controlled by them

[latent lark]

a multitude of things, for Soldier and Sombra nad Illiari read the short stories "Lucky Man" and "Futures Past" on the overwatch website

[dense garnet]

Chernobog created instructions on how to run global security, and the Conspiracy is using that information for their own nefarious ends, and Chernobog, now reactivated, is trying to reclaim his stolen blueprints

That's why he's constantly infiltrating Helix bases

[elfin patio]

Interesting

[dense garnet]

I don't think that either

I think Chernobog overall is good-afilliated, even if he's really only working for himself. He wants to reclaim his stolen blueprints from the Conspiracy, who are using them to secretly try and rule the world

That's my theory anyways

If he was working for the conspiracy, I don't think Chernobog would need to go through the trouble of attacking these Helix outposts

Helix are most likely using Chernobog's blueprints as well. He wants them back

[elfin patio]

You know

sometimes I really don't like the inconsistent way overwatch treats Doomfist

First - Defeated Genji and Tracer together, Talon Chief, Aura Farming as a great enemy

Then - Defeated by Winston, then Lucio and Orisa, then Vendetta

💀

And what was he even doing all these years as Talon Chief

I just love my man Doomfist I wanna see him above all those nerds

[dense garnet]

Defeated by Winton isn't that bad

Same with losing to Orisa

A villain can be cool and have aura even when they lose

[edgy tree]

Winston is a genetically modified intelligent Gorilla in battle armour and Orisa was engineered specifically to beat him

[dense garnet]

Making Winton resort to ulting to defeat him is a good power play

[edgy tree]

Yeah A beast that's stronger than several humans at once having to resort to pure brute force to match him was cool

[dense garnet]

I think it would've been cool af if the final clash between Vendetta and Doomfist was their ults.

Doomfist crashing down on Vendetta with a Meteor Strike and Vendetta responding with her own ult, their clash causing a shockwave across the entire room before Doom gets bested

[brittle sky]

I think that's quite true, but they also seem to have forgotten that with vendetta.

[shrewd pivot]

IM CRYING THE descriptions are cracking me up, Chernabog as Chernobog ai image is great lol

I would argue Chernobog and eye conspiracy should be connected considering the eye conspiracy symbol is connected to the Finnish Chernobog ai through Emre

[edgy tree]

Them using their whole kits would be cool

[dense garnet]

Pretty much every time Doom loses in the lore previously, it made sense as to why

With Vendetta, he kinda just went out like a bitch

[edgy tree]

like Doom upercutting Vendetta through the roof just to have a scenic fight

[dense garnet]

Hear me out

Vendetta ulting, splitting the room in two

[edgy tree]

Idk if she'd like to obliterate her new office xd

[dense garnet]

It's not a matter of wanting to

It's a matter of doing what it takes to win

[edgy tree]

yeah ik

[shrewd pivot]

Also is it safe to guess that something extremely funky is going on with Venture finding a Anubis(ai?) artifact in old Greek ruins?

Like. Is it ancient highly advanced technology (like inti warriors?)?
Or is it implying advanced future technology was sent into the past and that's how the anubis artifact got there? Bc Project Titan (canned MMO that became overwatch) dealt with traveling back in time to do hero work, and in overwatch we have Tracer's time plane accident.

[brittle sky]

But also the fact they feel any sign of adversity or weakness or even struggle to vendetta would detract from her character.

[edgy tree]

Yeah someone so powerfull and cool shoudn't need to struggle against someone utilizing the greatest weapon in-universe

btw if ya'll don't know Soldier and Sombra are activly looking into the conspiracy so we miiight see them team up with Emre and Freja eventually

[latent lark]

easy he got cocky and begun under estimating his foes, something Vendetta refuses to do

[brittle sky]

Sombra is absolutely not teaming with emre

[edgy tree]

after they fix the whole.... not able to control himself issue

[brittle sky]

She thinks little of so many people

[edgy tree]

Common enemies do get people together

[latent lark]

yeah thinks little of people but still knows how big a threat they can be, its why she bombed Overwatch

[edgy tree]

I alvays hated that argument

[junior forge]

Do you guys think Mauga will convince Junker Queen to make an alliance with Talon?

[wooden drift]

Nuh

[brittle sky]

She sent a couple of goons to try to seize power of talon first time. She sent random goons to blow up overwatch.

[wooden drift]

Through force only

[edgy tree]

The only thing I could really get behind is Doom wanting to lose for whatever reason

[dense garnet]

Mauga is gonna fight Wrecking Ball in the Scrapyard and have so much fun he defects and becomes a Junker

[latent lark]

judging by how D.mon is the hero of that season I wouldnt be suprised if he wins a fight then promises the junkers a fresh pair of new shiny mechs for their fights. im just curious why vendetta wants the Junkers

[dense garnet]

so that the junkers are finally included in the lore

[edgy tree]

that ain't even confirmed

[dense garnet]

I think D.MON's the most likely pick for a mech hero. She's been almost as requested as Jetpack Cat

[wooden drift]

I mean, it kinda makes sense

[latent lark]

we see the concept art of D.mon in the background of the spotlight, and in the roadmap we see junker queen and Dva above the sillouette of the D.mon mech, also pretty sure the mech itself got an update in Busan

[wooden drift]

Nuh, it's mama hong

[dense garnet]

Hong was apparently scrapped because of racial caricatures

[edgy tree]

He's a tactician that got warned by REAPER of all people

[junior forge]

Idk, in the road map they published, we could see on top of the new hero silhouette, the banner where it's written season 4 shows Junker Queen on the left, and D-Va on the right, which can be speculations that Junker Queen made an alliance with Talon and that Overwatch will most likely fight in Junkertown against the Junkers

[edgy tree]

it would be incredibly stupid of Doom to not care

[junior forge]

Yeah, can be interesting

[latent lark]

and he ignored it thinking she wouldnt pose a threat because after years of being in Talon he grew a bigger ego

[edgy tree]

Their mechs are alvays a bit more chunky especially in the middle this bot we see has a head which their mechs don't have

[edgy tree]

And that is just not Doom

[wooden drift]

And jetpack cat was scrapped cuz someone thought the idea was dumb

[latent lark]

hers does have a head actually its just retracted and flat, and whos to say it wouldnt be upgraded

[spring agate]

Wonder if Mauga asking if the fist has made him rusty was foreshadowing. That he’ll have to train up without it now

[latent lark]

it literally is him

[edgy tree]

That's not how he acts

[wooden drift]

I mean, he did smiled and nodded his head at end of cinematic like he expected it

[latent lark]

we see him allie with null Sector when literally every member of talon objects

[junior forge]

I'm more curious about season's 3 hero. Judging by her silhouette and the fact we'll literally go to Tokyo, where the Hashimoto took over control of the city, I have some ideas that it might be another Hashimoto member (knowing we already have Mizuki)

[edgy tree]

Because the null sector invasion caused the world to get stronger?

his uknow MAIN GOAL

[wooden drift]

Having at least one pure evil hashimoto character would be great

[edgy tree]

He's not a world dominator He wants the world to not have a single unified source of stronght (old Overwatch which he hated)

[junior forge]

Yeah, and the whole Hashimoto thing might be the turning point for Mizuki, where he'll finally decide to join Overwatch (and maybe Kiriko will be involved? Idk)

[latent lark]

and his main goal is also pathed with arrogance he thinks hes the strongest and that the world needs to evolve like he did, He killed members of Talon as well because he saw them unfit that is Ego and he underestimated Overwatch's return you know the reason Vendetta bombed them???

[edgy tree]

He doesn't think he's the strongest he aknowledged people that beat him (Orisa) He didn't want to kill Overwatch

[latent lark]

we literally dont know that he wanted overwatch alive or not

where is that

[wooden drift]

Nuh, he definitely think that

Like he's in-game voice lines

Dude sounds too full of himself

[edgy tree]

If he did want overwatch dead he'd do something before the invasion

[junior forge]

So right now, I already see Emre and Mizuki having a pretty solid role in the lore of Overwatch
I still need to know the lore reason behind Domina and Anran
(Jetpack Cat is just for the goofiness of the game)

[edgy tree]

He's not an idiot

[latent lark]

THEY WERE SHUT DOWN AND HE SENT REAPER TO MAKE A HITLIST OF OVERWATCH AGENTS

meanwhile Vendetta is attempting to squash the bug before it stands up again

[wooden drift]

Domina just gonna be connected with symmetra's and lucio's plot if they would wanna continue it

Lifeweaver too

[junior forge]

Lucio does have a voiceline with Domina

[edgy tree]

He didn't order reaper to do it that's just what reaper wanted to do

[latent lark]

the event has names for each week and the third one is called picture perfect something so it makes sense thats Domina's week since each of the weeks are tied to one of the five heroes

[latent lark]

ok that makes him look worse? also still doesnt back up him wanting overwatch alive if he just let that happen

[junior forge]

What's the first week called?

[edgy tree]

No it doesn't because Doomfist did not want Overwatch dead

He's not Vendetta

[latent lark]

same name as the Emre cinematic we just got

[edgy tree]

he doesn't want to controll the world

[latent lark]

WHERE IS THE PROOF THEN???

[junior forge]

Oh... that's why the Talon rewards of this week are all about Emre

[wooden drift]

But he wants to make a huge war, cuz of his selfish self

[edgy tree]

When he defeated Tracer he could've killed her but didn't

[latent lark]

HES DONE NOTHING BUT UNDERESTIMATE OVERWATCH ITS HOW HE GOT ARRESTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, HOW HE LOST TO LUCIO AND ORISA, AND NOW HE'S "DEAD" BECAUSE OF IGNORING VENDETTA Im sorry but the glazing it too much

[latent lark]

she straight up vanished out of reality

whats he gonna do punch her ghost???

[edgy tree]

Before breaking her accelerator

[junior forge]

Doomfist is strong, but not strong enough

That's the thing

[latent lark]

he can level a sky scraper

his ego is in his way

[merry mason]

Source: a ten year old

[edgy tree]

because of the belief that conflict is what makes the world evolve

[junior forge]

"Those who fall will be forgotten"
Proceeds to fall out the window

[latent lark]

and symmetra

[latent lark]

because he thinks that only the strongest would survive, textbook ego

just because hes not being cartoonishly evil doesnt make him not egotistical

[edgy tree]

Killing people that are strong would go against his belief as he values people that rise up and grow stronger like how Winston did in their fight

hell Doomfist himself saw that defeat as a victory

[latent lark]

because HE UNDERESTIMATED WINSTON

[junior forge]

Winton stronger

[latent lark]

AND WHEN HE GOT HIS AHH KICKED HE STOPPED UNDERSTIMATING HIM

[brittle sky]

Are we saying the woman who keeps putting up statues of herself isn't an egotist?

[edgy tree]

He didn't want them dead though

[latent lark]

I never said she wasnt I said she doesnt underestimate, she doesnt hide

[wooden drift]

Both are egoist

[junior forge]

Vendetta is basically a dictator

[wooden drift]

Just in different directions

[brittle sky]

Like, again, literally sent a couple of guys to roll over talon on Doom's arrest.

[merry mason]

It’s literally in the comic he was trying to kill Overwatch members one by one. He wasn’t underestimating or intentionally letting them live he just had a different strategy

[brittle sky]

Wants to be, for some reason. Needs territory for that.

[edgy tree]

which comic?

[merry mason]

The newest

[latent lark]

literally no proof when he punched genji into a car and ripped off the thing that kept tracer locked to this plain of existance, lets also not forget how in the cut fourth mission Talon had zero issue trying to kill Genji and the other overwatch agents involved or how he just allowed Reaper to make a hitlist

[brittle sky]

Again, a couple goons sent to claim all of talon while she sat back and drank wine.

[latent lark]

because she wasnt strong enough

and mind you that was years ago

[edgy tree]

Yeah TALON had zero issue trying to kill them

Doomfist goes against Talon a ton

[latent lark]

HE RUNS TALON DUDE?????

[merry mason]

She didn’t even bother going herself

[brittle sky]

She's doing it again just with more goons for overwatch.

[junior forge]

She has a huge part of Italy and other Talon bases idk where. She'll get an alliance with Ashe so she'll rule over Route 66, she already has Tokyo with the Hashimoto behind them, and basically, if it ends up to be correct, she'll basically be able to obtain Junkertown if the Junker Queen makes an alliance

[merry mason]

I mean how huge actually?

[edgy tree]

Yeah he doesn't boss over them like Vendetta though

[latent lark]

well duh shes having a meeting with Talon and flexed her strength over talon with the attack on Overwatch

[edgy tree]

it was stated they act out their own selfish plans

[latent lark]

if anything that shows he was a lowsy boss

[junior forge]

Btw, what's Ramattra doing with Talon btw?

[brittle sky]

Ashe doesn't own Arizona. She just does crime there. The hashimoto aren't loyal to her just allied with her. And no way any alliance with junkers equates to jq ceding territory. The junkers are known to act kind of badly when someone else claims their turf

[wooden drift]

He already left talon

[edgy tree]

Right now nothing but before Doomfist funded their invasion

[latent lark]

I think he's just vibing in antarctica now, Vendetta says shes glad he left because she would have just killed him

[junior forge]

Hmm... need to check the lore

[brittle sky]

And if we're actualizing realities of war to say that doom got complacent, then if her attack results in 0 casualties then we can say her plan was a huge failure

[junior forge]

Damn, Blizzard really hates him

😭

[merry mason]

Vendetta try to actually form alliances instead of just threatening people with death challenge: impossible

[edgy tree]

He didn't want to take part in that conflict

Let the world deal with that problem

[latent lark]

well yeah thats called plot armor, not to mention this whole argument was over how Doom failed because he underestimates his foes and underestimated her, she knew Doom was a threat and that Talon under his rule was falling apart.

[junior forge]

I know, but the fact Vendetta would have killed him makes me think it's a sign how badly Blizzard hates him (just for joking, ofc)

[wooden drift]

Not really? They'll return to null sector plot later

[brittle sky]

I mean, are we saying her rise wasn't plot armor?

[merry mason]

Anytime someone lives that’s plot armor

[latent lark]

theres a difference between not killing off your main characters, and showing a women rise in strength and beat doom at his own game

[brittle sky]

Turns out all causality within a plot is the plot

[wooden drift]

You could say doomfist beating tracer is kinda plot armour

[latent lark]

yeah by this logic Doom's feats are just plot armor also

[shrewd pivot]

I personally think the events in how Vendetta defeated doom was ooc, I don't mind Vendetta winning btw, i just wish the writing carried more competence for both villains. Two characters can be competent on the screen at the same time.

Doomfist was the type to uplift excellence like Efi (which Efi's interpersonal connection with Orisa and Numbani helped fuel Orisa to beat Doomfist), and Doomfist bodied tracer and genji to then be bodied by Winston-- which says a lot narratively.

Doomfist is def competent(defeats genji and tracer by live time tactics, strong over 'weak') but Doomfist may not see far enough in how characters interpersonal connections can defeat him (Winston cares about tracer and Winston was extra motivated to hurt doomfist after Doomfist hurt tracer. Obviously Winston can overpower Doomfist normally but the interpersonal connection Doomfist underestimated was why Doomfist lost against Winston. If Doomfist had strategized around this, then Doomfist could have maybe out manuvered Winston, but Doomfist was caught off guard by Winston being EXTRA motivated).

Vendetta maybe was intended to out strategize Doomfist in a similar way bc of her set up

Vendetta seemingly is that underestimated interpersonal connection that Doomfist did not value, between Vialli and Antonio's deaths. And just like Winston raging extra hard with motivation, Vendetta is raging extra hard with motivation.

I just wish the writing in the Vendetta vs Doomfist fight felt more in character for Doomfist. It would have been very satisfying seeing the familiar Doomfist get defeated by Vendetta, instead of suddenly writing Doomfist as less competent in situations he had shown competence in before. (Ie, he would def hear Vendetta running in the dark, etc)

[brittle sky]

See 4block's comment

[edgy tree]

Yeah him being seemingly taken off guard by a sword throw was weird esp the way he coudn't track down a girl in heavy armour when he predicted what's essentially teleportation

[latent lark]

in broad daylight where she was circling him in a pattern he recognized, Vendetta nearly lost but then she was filled with vengeance (like Ultra said) and hid in a darker part of the room and got the drop on him

not to mention the years apart those fights were

[edgy tree]

He was looking around confused while she went around him

[latent lark]

yeh then you see him catch on

[edgy tree]

right when she jumps him even though there's no way you coudn't hear the sword + heavy armour

[latent lark]

talking about tracer

Vendetta clearly caught him off guard

[edgy tree]

I feel like literal teleportation is still a bit harder to track than a girl running around

[latent lark]

shes not teleporting

shes just moving very fast

[edgy tree]

through time to a future position

[latent lark]

its described as Tracer speeding up her own time, not teleportation unless shes rewinding where then she teleports to a previous position

[edgy tree]

Which is weird when she seemingly just jumps up a wall in that museum animation

[latent lark]

its like the flash running on walls shes going fast enough the leverage is pushing her up the wall???

like lets not dumb ourselves down to prove a point

[brittle sky]

Okay, so let's break this down, since you are bringing up the spectre of misogyny behind skepticism at vendetta. And hey, that's a real effect we should track, but if we wanna get into optics and tropes we can point out how we deposed the one human character from sub-saharan africa to put an Italian woman in her 20s perpetually showing off cleavage and/or thighs on the throne.

But the narrative we got didn't show us doom underestimating her. We read into that purely because he failed to stop her. She didn't outmaneuver him or outsmart him. She got into a room and fought him with a sword. She just lost some of a fight, had a shonen flashback, then won the fight. All those beats are just choreography. They didn't express truths of their respective characters other than "vendetta is motivated by the feeling of powerlessness after not inheriting her father's position automatically".

[merry mason]

Doom should be more than capable of looking behind him

[edgy tree]

Esp when he knew where her Weapon was which she'd obviously run towards

[latent lark]

I never brought up misogyny? I caleld a women because shes a women?

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. I think maybe this is a miscommunication here between you two? @latent lark @edgy tree

Doomfist wasn't necessarily underestimating skills of individuals, he was underestimating the impact of interpersonal connections. Orisa and Winston beat Doomfist bc Doomfist underestimated the fallout of interpersonal connections.

If it wasn't clear, in Overwatch's narrative, 'interpersonal connections save characters' is a motif -- interpersonal connections are deemed as a good thing in overwatch's writing. Look at how Zenyatta the protagonist is aiming for interpersonal connections with optumism and hope in humanity, while Ramattra the antagonist is completely rejecting interpersonal connections with pessimism and losing all hope in humanity.

[latent lark]

this

[lean cradle]

Juno has the best skins she's so hot

[latent lark]

sir this is a wendys

[edgy tree]

I was never against Doomfist losing tbh just the fact Vendetta did so alone

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed! Imo Vendetta should have had a different writing of events in how she won.

[brittle sky]

I just felt like addressing the woman thing because sure, some jerks are more incredulous of vendetta's rise because lady, in the same way say rey or however many got characters. I think there are real critiques of how vendetta is characterized and how her ride was portrayed beyond that, just important to disentangle those elements of the discussion

[edgy tree]

We should've gotten some scenes where she and Max strategized around the whole takeover

[frail grove]

I know null sector story is basically over for now but YK what I think would be cool? Imagine if some guy tried to stop the others from dismantling ravagers, but got beaten up himself instead, however managed to save the ravager… Wouldnt it be cool if there was a human hiding with null sector supportinv em

[edgy tree]

It actually would be kinda cool to have a human Null sector supporter

[latent lark]

ide love to see a human who agrees with Null Sector tbh it'd make an interesting conflict in Ramattra's head (if he doesnt just dismiss the human)

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe Vendetta being mafiosa with her Colosseo fighters in a campy way

[edgy tree]

though not sure if Ramattra would really let that happen with how he calls genji "Zenyattas pet"

[shrewd pivot]

Aha do I have an overwatch oc for you....

[frail grove]

Rammatra can be polite to humans if the reciprocate it

[edgy tree]

and maybe them showing a weak point in the fist being what she ended up cutting at the end there

[frail grove]

But whether hed fully trust one among his ranks Idk

[latent lark]

I can appreciate how he also respects the other living creatures like Wreckingball and Jet Pack Cat

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Ramattra has beef with humanity's negligence as a whole entity (beehive) not individual humans who support omnic liberation (bee)

[frail grove]

But like a human whos like “nah the war was over yet yall still hunted em down, we get whats comin for us”

[edgy tree]

He does just hate Humanity's culture

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that cracks me up so badly. Man the Shambali family reunion function must be so awkward... /j

[latent lark]

you can actually see this on how his Nulltroopers don't attack the two civillians before they started throwing bricks at them in the Liberation cutscene, the only real reason they attack overwatch and the military is because they pose a threat to the goal

[edgy tree]

I love the "Ninjas shoudn't be seen NOR heard" line when he kills Genji in dragonblade

[frail grove]

Humans are speciescist they just fightin back against speciesm

[shrewd pivot]

Humanity's negligence, yes. He doesn't seem to mind interacting with Bastion and Ganymede (willing to provide a twig) so my guess is that he values organic life, he just does not accept awakened omnic oppression whatsoever

[edgy tree]

Even Echo that works with Overwatch activly

[shrewd pivot]

Voice lines are not hard canon ofc, but yes I agree it says a lot that Ramattra is cordial with Echo

[frail grove]

Hence why I think some guy whos like “nah I completely understand you” would be cool

[latent lark]

Ramattra is such a well written antagonist I hope that once the hero that looks like a stalker is revealed it is a Null Sector character, my guess is ,maybe its an assassin sent to kill Vendetta if she sets her sight on Ramattra

[shrewd pivot]

heh. I made a whole oc as a writing exercise to fill that gap in the meantime

[edgy tree]

Yeah it's actually so annoying they did so little with him so far dx

[latent lark]

I also hope the Antarctica rework shows like Null Sector ships and stuff in the distance

[frail grove]

Doom has some sort of relationship with Ram

[edgy tree]

I just hope his after conquest return will be insane

[frail grove]

Altho Doom prolly doesnt know where Ram is

But I imagine he might be tryna run to Ram like “pls help”

[edgy tree]

Ram doesn't like Doom

[frail grove]

Ah they been together b4 tho

[latent lark]

its an uneasy alliance

• Doom wanted Null Sector to start a war
• Ram wanted the support of Talon and also the added bonus of Talon capturing Zenyatta
• Doomfist wanted Ram's tech
• once he realized Talon isnt really worth it he left once his own goal was complete

[edgy tree]

Yeah to discuss them deals

[shrewd pivot]

Popping back to this, Ramattra's "a helpful human" line with Baptiste might suggest Ramattra would accept a human supporter of null sector

[frail grove]

If Vendetta is smart tho she can get nullsector on her side

[edgy tree]

He'd propably not trust them though

[wooden drift]

Rammatra would just ask her to fuck off tbh

[frail grove]

True

But if she brings Zen

Eh, Genji would prolly chase Vendetta till the ends of earth if they capped Zen

[edgy tree]

Tbh Talon did get him what he wanted the whole Zenyatta interraction happened because of Talon

[latent lark]

Ram's made it clear he has no plan onm returning to join Talon, Vendetta could always try but if Ram pushes her away im sure she'd turn to a more lethal method of getting his tech (which could lead to the possibly new hero shown that looks like they had Null Sector tech)

[edgy tree]

just didn't go the way it was planned to go

[latent lark]

im sure there was more than just that though, Doom offered help in his goals and mind you the events of Storm Rising was years before the events of Overwatch 2's invasion meaning Talon had to had helped in some way to Null Sector during all that time

[edgy tree]

What's kinda weird to me is how Talon specifically attacked a Null sector ship to get the power relay schematics

Ig Null sector wasn't really willing to share their tech which Talon found a waste of their resources

[latent lark]

it wasnt really an attack, its the same ship Torb, Rein, Bastion, and Brig shot down. it was more supposed to be an infultration. as for sharing tech I doubt Ram would just give them tech. Dooms whole motivation was ram was to start a war

[edgy tree]

Yeah it wasn an infiltration mission to steal things from them which can still be called an attack

just on their property

[edgy tree]

the tech talk is about ur "Doomfist wanted Ram's tech" point btw

[latent lark]

wouldnt be suprised if that was the og plan for Genji in the pve before it was shut down

i still count the cut mission as canon because it can easily fit in the current plot

[edgy tree]

He'd get a rage powerup like Winston and no diff her

[latent lark]

for sure

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. If I was in charge of the writing, I would have had it so that null sector units only fired once fired upon, and ignored children and animals. In canon, many casualties occured but I feel that while realistic, it made Ramattra an easier "ohhhh obviously evil to defeat!" excuse for overwatch.

(iirc the omnium in Russia was targeting a certain age range. So it's based on that premise)

I think nullsector being this very obvious "technically morally correct" antagonist would have been very interesting for a regrouped overwatch to navigate after og overwatch fell due to corruption. "War never changes, so humans must" kind of thing. Ramattra could use either action or inaction of civilians towards nulltroopers as propaganda: "see? The humans fight us even if we do no harm, humans are not your friends nor family, join us" after baiting the anti-omnic humans to get violent, or "see? Humans are not your family nor friends, they passively accept this removal, join us" if certain civilians do not violently resist at all in fear watching omnics get subjugated. Would have made for some very fun psychology warfare scenes. Showcases Ramattra's philosophy that hateful violence is wrong, but pure pacifism is wrong too.

Especially with Ramattra's new line with Vendetta... "Suffer as I have" -- and the suffering is watching your own people squabble into self destruction. Chefs kiss for Ramattra writing

[frail grove]

I would honestly love a sideplot of Genji and Mercy rescuing Zen lmao 😭

Like “you dont have to do this alone, Genji”

[latent lark]

me too but I think theyre going to focus Genji on the Hoshimoto plot so Genji, Hanzo, and Kiri can all reunite. and based off the little hints weve gotten have Mizuki join Overwatch

also they really have kinda pushed Mercy x Genji away for some reason in exchange of Pharah x Mercy

[frail grove]

Kiriko put her ofudas on Mizukis hat to protect him

No way he will be able to betray her lol

[latent lark]

I agree which is why we're probably getting that Hoshimoto hero in season 3

[edgy tree]

Can't wait to actually see Hanzo and Kiri fight together

[latent lark]

yeah we only got a taste of it in the short story

[frail grove]

I know she isn’t planned for this year but I want Suzie as a support

[latent lark]

me too

I picture the phreaks will get more content once the conspiracy is the front line of the plot

[frail grove]

We’re finally actually getting to it

[edgy tree]

I'd definitly like to see some wild designs coming from them

I rememer Hazard telling Torb there's a guy who could make his head into a turret

[latent lark]

something ide kill for is a lore book similar to Overwatch declassified but its about the missions Overwatch did during Null Sector and maybe the Talon plot

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah if Vendetta attacked Nullsector that would be poking a sleeping Polar bear lmafo

[edgy tree]

Yeah I'd also like a bit of an expansion on the Null sector plot

ofc the original idea for it (like Rein dying during it) won't be told but it would still be neat to get more details bout it

[latent lark]

like to list a few

• Overwatch grouping up in Paris
• the newbloods in Busan
• The three PVE Missions (give us the canon team in Toronto)
• The India mission as technically it was to get info on Ramttra
• maybe the accounts of Orisa and the Ye siblings during their experiences in Numbani and Chengdu
• Juno arriving
• Buenoes Eries
• and many of the possible cut PVE missions like the possible new york mission seen in storyboards

and if that isnt enough the current Talon plot adds so much more

[shrewd pivot]

Two blunders of writing romance for Mercy imo, I wish they would drop both MercyxGenji ship and MercyxPharah ship lol

[latent lark]

also predictions for the next few lore drops
since each week in the event is based around a hero and the latest lore drop was named the same as the first week we have

Week 1 - Emre - "Another Life" - we see the moment after Emre's reveal in his comic
Week 2 - Jetpack Cat - "Project Jetpack Katt" - I wouldnt be suprised if its just the moment of Brig finding Fika in gibraltar
Week 3 - Domina - "Picture of Success" - weve been getting a few interactions building up to Sym and Domina going to Rio
Week 4 - Mizuki - "Curse Breaker" - Mizuki something something
Week 5 - Anran - "From the ashes" - Anran and Wuyang arrive at Overwatch then Overwatch either during or shortly after Talon's attack

[shrewd pivot]

Curse Breaker sounds like title that could fit the story where Mizuki defects from Hashimoto

[latent lark]

possibly but also consider how the next three seasons are based off the plans Vendetta made
Season 2 - Deadlock
Season 3 - Hoshimoto
Season 4 - Junkers

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch_gamepedia/images/6/6b/Reign_of_Talon_Roadmap.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20260205065111

[shrewd pivot]

I am so curious how the writing will handle Mizuki's "bad luck curse" in ow canon.

Is it that "bad luck isn't real, but believing in it makes it real(ie, gambling for lucky charms, thus causing 'unlucky' debt)"

Is it that the eye conspiracy is involved with Mizuki's family? (Chernobog god is the personification of bad luck / dark fate)

Is it some other group out to get Mizuki's family line?

Is badluck actually some kind of superhero powers? (Statistics manipulation)

Or is it all just in Mizuki's head/just a personal belief?(most boring option imo)

[latent lark]

Im so curious about that too

is mirrors Kiriko actually on how her very first teaser mentioned how the Kitsune brings good luck

[wise grotto]

I assumed immediately he was (on the spirits stuff) just superstitious
8’think his family id partially targeted though

[latent lark]

oh hes def superstitious

[wise grotto]

Statistics manipulation is straight up too magic to be something I’d wanna see in is

Ow

[latent lark]

I just hope they explain how Kiriko isnt magic, when the Anima weapons are the explination on how Hanzo, Genji and Mizuki uses hard light constructs of spirits

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah same, i feel like Chernobog global security god ai / Oasis 'minority report' security ai covers the "statistics prediction of events" topic well enough already

[shrewd pivot]

We can guess Kiriko is using Anima tech too.

[latent lark]

itd be interesting if Mzuki is tied to the conspiracy in some way (although ide much prefer if Venture joins overwatch and tells them their findings)

[shrewd pivot]

Wait wait wait

[latent lark]

thats what I Usually say but she's "blessed by the fox spirit" whatever that means if its literal or symbolic

also shes been teleporting and healing since she was a kid

[shrewd pivot]

Venture is into mummy's curses, Mizuki runs from bad luck, Chernobog is the god of "bad luck / dark fate" and Venture just found an anubis artifact that can be easily read as a "cursed seal" artifact or like a Pandora's box situation hmm..

There's pieces there, not sure what it could be for tho

[latent lark]

hrmmmm seems a little too magical, like you said though a connection could be made? Chernabog though I dont think has ties to Mizuki's misfortune

[shrewd pivot]

Teleporting is canon with Symmetra, and 'magical looking healing' is covered with Mercy, Moira, Baptiste. Every Kiriko ability can be explained with prior scifi elements in overwatch except:

My only hesitation is how the kitsune can 'possess' humans in her cinematic, assuming it's not just an adrenaline rush. Miko shrine maidens are believed to be able to be possessed by spirits in Shinto belief, and the kid weilds the axe with proficiency, so it feels like whenever a human gets blue glowy eyes, that is the kitsune(ai?) 'Possessing' or atleast influencing humans. There is no scifi explanation for how an ai could 'possess' nonaugmented humans. Emre is a cyborg, which explains his mind control by the eye conspiracy.

[shrewd pivot]

Oh no I meant like "fantasy with a scifi twist" for the curse/badluck/Pandora's box-- like how Lifeweaver is a fantasy druid class but scifi twist, maybe Venture will come across a "mummy's curse but scifi" with the anubis artifact being some kind of technology, and that relating to the "bad luck" of chernobog or Mizuki or something idk lol. There are pieces there, but idk what it could be

[latent lark]

my biggest theory I just cant prove is that Kiriko while she was young her father put the same tech he uses on the weapons he makes into her body somehow and the Kitsune is only something she sees on her end (which is why her mom doesn't believe it exists) while things like the pillars are just hard light constructs similarly to the Shimada's dragons

[shrewd pivot]

Ohhh interesting hypothesis. 🤔 that would explain things ngl, it's a fun idea. But iirc her grandmother also participated with the kitsune.

I think Hanzo can actually see the kitsune in the heroes ascendant story tho hm

[latent lark]

well we dont know if the grandma actually saw it. the grandma could easily be superstitious and be all "oh my grandaughter really has an active imagination about the spirit we worship"

[shrewd pivot]

True!

But yeah iirc Hanzo can see the kitsune in the heroes ascendant story tho

Maybe only Anima users can see the kitsune by your hypothesis then?

There's beliefs about children being able to see things like spirits that elders cannot in Shinto beliefs, so your hypothesis isn't full disproven if only Anima users can see the kitsune

[wise grotto]

The issue with kiri is she doesn’t have any technology that looks like it’s doing the things other heroes hsve

[latent lark]

the kitsune could also easily be a hardlight construct she materialized subcountiously

[latent lark]

well non that we see

she might not even know

and I dont mean implants I mean the stuff used to summon the spirits from the blades are just In her

[wise grotto]

That’s the issue imo is that we don’t see anything
Every other hero communicates it in a way we can see in the entire game consistently
Except kiri

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf Hanzo's dragon comes out if his tattoo, not just the (anima) weapon either

[wise grotto]

True but nano technology has been shown to be possibke and is still more of a visual indicator when his weapon also does something during then just “it happens” and that’s I

[shrewd pivot]

I agree, Kiriko doesn't visually showcase Anima tech use like others do.

[wise grotto]

Yea like
It’s always been the issue is kiriko doesn’t SHOW or TELL it just happens
No matter how wild or weird other characters get across the whole game we’re usually given something

I want kiriko lore to finallt out this specific outlier to rest

[latent lark]

unles your most of the tiktok overwatch community who says Wuyang and Anran have magic

[wise grotto]

Those guys are stupid they don’t count

[latent lark]

lol

[wise grotto]

It’s like Twitter ow and balance

They didn’t understand it anyway so they don’t count

[shrewd pivot]

Also if Kiriko IS really based on Pearl from that infamous Ace attorney game as Chu suggested, Kiriko having Anima implants as a child would make sense. 9 year old Pearl gets possessed by spirits and transforms into that spirit. So Kiriko having some internal Anima tech as a child would be like an internal possession deal with the Kitsune maybe...?

Idk im just desperate for Kiriko’s powers to be explained by scifi lol

But atleast from my guess, the kitsune is visible to others. Maybe only Anima users can see it.... but Illari comments on seeing Kiriko’s kitsune so idk i will assume others can see Kiriko's kitsune for the time being.

That's a really fun idea tho @latent lark I wouldn't mind that as a canon explanation if it were to be

[latent lark]

if Kiriko wasnt so oversaturated ide love a Kiriko and Hanzo anime

itd be a perfect way to explain her powers while being secluded enough it doesnt get in the way of any in game plots

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch animated series one day, trust

[twilit patrol]

Some people say they'll announce it at BlizzCon

[shrewd pivot]

I hope so!

[past copper]

Who wants to bet, next skins will be Junkers in favor of a possible alliance with Talon?

[latent lark]

more likely Deadlock then Hoshimoto then finally Junkers

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch_gamepedia/images/6/6b/Reign_of_Talon_Roadmap.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20260205065111

based off the roadmap's teasers for plots

[merry mason]

Mizuki’s powers are pretty similar to kirikos though.

[peak escarp]

Hanzo's dragon coming out of his tattoo is just a visual thing

there's no confirmed connection between the anima and his tattoos

[wise grotto]

Wasn’t it in the cinematic

[remote wing]

what else would his anima be if not the tatoos?

[peak escarp]

yes

that's what I mean by visual thing

Toshiro makes Anima weapons

he isn't a tattoo artist

[remote wing]

it’s not his bow because we know that using the bow is a new thing for hanzo and before he killed genji he used a sword

[wise grotto]

We don’t know it’s not his bow cause he’s used it since he killed genji and kirikos family helped him get free of the shimada

[peak escarp]

Toshiro made Hanzo's Storm Bow

Hanzo's Storm Bow is an Anima weapon

[remote wing]

oh

[peak escarp]

we don't know if Hanzo's fight with Genji involved anima weapons at all

(tbh it probably did, but we don't know)

[remote wing]

given that genji had his dragon sword at that time

probably yeah

[dense garnet]

I like to think Genji was woefully inexperienced in anima due to his negligence of training

[peak escarp]

people theorized that it was the tattoos before Toshiro entered the lore, and that Genji must have had one before getting bisected

[remote wing]

the dragons coming from tatoos aren’t explicitly not canon tho right?

[peak escarp]

no

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah ofc, I meant that anima tech holo stuff is visually shown coming from more parts than just the Anima tech weapon itself (tattoo not only bow), so it's not out of the question of Kiriko using Anima tech (aka her kitsune etc not coming out of her Kunai etc)

I didn't mean at all to imply the bow wasn't anima tech, Hanzo's bow is anima tech.

[pale valve]

Who would win between Orisa and Hammond? Also, can anyone in Junkertown beat Mauga in a 1v1?

Very interested to see what's gonna happen there

[shrewd pivot]

Depends on the situation, either could win.

Depends on the situation, Mauga could win or Mauga could lose.

Overwatch is more about context, not powerscaling. Weaker characters can outsmart more powerful enemies, so it's hard to say who would win.

Also why are official blizz support accounts placing Jetpack cat on a veterinarian obesity chart as a "cute chonker" meme.

I thought the internet grew up and agreed overfeeding animals into morbid obesity is animal abuse and not something cute. It's like, dark humor shitposts from fans to put JPC on an obesity vet chart, not something official accounts should be posting as "lighthearted cute" engagement post asking for pet pictures.

Man JPC is obnoxiously handled by official sources, outside and inside the game. I wish JPC could have been something positive like Winston instead.

[wise blaze]

I think JQ is taking him ngl

Didn’t Mauga draw to a Doomfist with no gauntlet?

[shrewd pivot]

Both without weapons, Mauga and Doomfist tied, yes.

[peak escarp]

JPC seems pretty positive to me

people love her

[shrewd pivot]

The post in question btw.

Ik it's not exactly lore specific but wow look at that guys, Jetpack cat is morbidly obese and Cassidy is giving Fika treats anyways isn't that so "funny."

[peak escarp]

it's a joke

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, and it's tactless. Would placing her on a veterinarian chart showing starving animals be cute? No.

[peak escarp]

she's not even fat

also, that chart is a meme

[hollow oar]

subjective

[peak escarp]

she's a long-haired cat, she's just fluffy

[hollow oar]

thats what they all say

just fluff

[shrewd pivot]

I would argue JPC is overweight, her model implies she is not longhair fluffy like Mitzi is.

[azure flint]

how does jpc know how to use a jetpack

[hollow oar]

shes a smartie pants

[peak escarp]

her tail is not thin like a shorthair cat

[hollow oar]

i mean ppl on the internet teach dogs to use buttons to """talk""" (heavy quotation marks), maybe brig is just the cat whisperer or smth

[shrewd pivot]

Seemingly trained. No confirmation on if she's just a normal cat or a special hyperintelligent situation as of yet

[hollow oar]

honestly i hope shes a normal cat, theres enough hyperintelligent animals in overwatch right now

[peak escarp]

same

[hollow oar]

i yearn for more emre lore

[azure flint]

this week

trust

[hollow oar]

YES 🤑 🤑 this week would be soooo peak

[azure flint]

keep the emre freja side plot going blizzard

[shrewd pivot]

Her face is more short hair, body too. Tho tbf her paws do look kind of awkwardly modeled, so it's hard to say. Her tail does look like it has longer hair, but her body does not suggest the same floofiness of fur

[peak escarp]

we have enough Emre lore, let's get some Mizuki lore

[hollow oar]

they should set up a website where you can send blizzard money, and the more money you send them there's a little bar that makes them work faster and faster

chop chop blizzard i need my emre content now

[azure flint]

real

[hollow oar]

EMRE MY KING!!!! 🤑 🤑 🤑 🔥 💯

oh and mizuki too ig

[azure flint]

mizuki and emre lore first

like is mizuki pretending to be friendly to kiriko or smth to gain her trust

and then betray her later

[hollow oar]

i like mizuki but its only bc he's so goofy with his corny (not in a bad way) edgy dialogue, like okay little guy you do you
he feels like greg from diary of a wimpy kid to me

i think his design is a little rough though, i like his silhouette but theres just so many details that it feels overcomplicated

[dense garnet]

Yes (for now)

He's more neutral than evil. He just doesn't want to make the Hashimoto upset

[peak escarp]

the Hashimoto do basically own him

[dense garnet]

He'll inevitably defect and join the Yokai fully/Overwatch

[peak escarp]

he's on the hook for his family's debts

[dense garnet]

Mizuki will leave the Hashimoto as soon as Toshiro is safe away from them

He's kinda Mizuki's rock

[peak escarp]

I hope we get a hero who is actually part of the Hashimoto family

[shrewd pivot]

If Fika is supposed to be overwatch's normal cat intelligence (showcasing a cartoonish level of sapience, like lion king level sapience) That would make Cassidy lore of working at the pig butchery factory super super super horrific bc pigs are much smarter than cats.

I hope Fika is not the standard sapience level for normal animals in overwatch. That's like, easily 5+ year old kid level sapient. And irl cats normally are around 2 year olds.

I wouldn't like to think every hero that eats steak is eating Fika's dolphin+ level sapient cousins for dinner. :( that's just messed up. Fika better not be a normal cat.

[peak escarp]

she can be a normal smart cat

that wouldn't make every animal human level smart

[dense garnet]

Season 3 most likely. That silhouette looks like they're wearing the Hashimoto's demon mask

Just from the horns

[viral pilot]

Idk why but I was thinking the character silhouette with horns could possibly be part of the Phreakz

[shrewd pivot]

So like, a normal cat but with a special breed to make her smarter, but not super genius like Hammond?

Bc if she's just a regular cat straight up (no genetic experiments, no special breeds), that does imply worldbuilding lore for overwatch that basic animal sapience is much MUCH higher than irl. And that has worldbuilding consequences as I stated prior.

[peak escarp]

I don't see how Fika being just an above-average smart cat makes every other animal suddenly as intelligent as a human

Just because she was trained to press buttons doesn't mean she actually understands what she's doing

[shrewd pivot]

So, is Fika a cat with the intelligence of a dolphin? A raven? A human? That still has lore implications.

Overwatch is cartoony, I expected a heightened level of intelligence, like Ganymede seems pretty smart.

But if Fika is just pressing buttons canonically, why would Winston ever agree to put her on field? Winston came from a background where animals were being abused for humanity. I don't think Winston in character would approve of young child soldiers nor animal(equivalent to young children) soldiers because of his background.

[peak escarp]

it's not that deep

[viral pilot]

Do you believe they'll give lore for Fika or just leave her be?

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra's lore isn't that deep? Thoughtless gods isn't that deep? Or is JPC just shallow writing.

[peak escarp]

what do they have to do with any of this?

your leaps of logic confuse me

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch isn't purely shallow writing, Thoughtless gods was "that deep" and Ramattra's lore was "that deep"

there are explanations for things.

JPC having shallow writing ("its not that deep") is understandably disappointing after getting Winston and Hammond who were silly but also not shallow

[peak escarp]

and your massive paragraphs reek of pseudointellectualism

JPC is not that deep

she's a meme character they shoehorned into the lore to make the fans happy

[shrewd pivot]

Again, I am autistic and I am doing my best to communicate clearly.

Idk what your problem with me is, calling me "psuedointellectual" when i have repeatedly said I am autistic and I am trying to communicate so I word things like I do. A symptom of autism is communication difficulty. I litterally can't change how I think idk what you want me to do.

[peak escarp]

she was an abandoned Hammond concept that the community wouldn't let go of

you take so long typing that the conversation has often moved on by the time you finish

you don't need to use paragraphs and proper grammar

[hollow oar]

well maybe she can be like an above-average intelligence cat (a smartie pants)

i just dont want her to be like human-level hammond or winston intelligence, give us some animal brain diversity

[peak escarp]

I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just a little tiring waiting to see what you'll say before I can continue

[hollow oar]

fika might not canonically be on the battlefield? just a theory. the overwatch game isnt canon to the overwatch lore, so fika might not actually canonically be fighting in a warzone

not 100% sure though, im not an expert in fika lore

[shrewd pivot]

My issue with it is, why would Winston approve of that on overwatch? I think he would be against young child soldiers and therefore animal soldiers because Thoughtless Gods showed Winston grew up in a very bad place that used animals for human purposes.

[peak escarp]

yeah, I doubt Fika is out there shooting Talon agents

[hollow oar]

the msg i just sent is my thoughts on that question #lore-discussion message i dont think she's canonically in the battlefield, i think thats just a gameplay thing

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah and I am disappointed by that, I think it is a lower quality of production.

[shrewd pivot]

So no voicelines between Sojourn, Brigitte, and JPC are implying any canon?

[hollow oar]

i havent heard those voicelines before, could u summarize them for me?

[shrewd pivot]

I know voice lines aren't direct canon but the lines seem to suggest JPC is being prepped for battlefield

Yeah let me find the video

[peak escarp]

voice lines are largely hypothetical

they don't represent actual conversations, more like what-if situations

[shrewd pivot]

Unrelated, this interaction made me laugh
https://youtube.com/shorts/bZbw4Wu9mKw?si=dcPtE23Bo2YeBXnh

[shrewd pivot]

https://youtube.com/shorts/kk0bTOiKKDI?si=JJQ0VA6ElvpiFt8c

And then there's Sojourn's lines with Fika in general, implying Fika is in the battlefield

If Fika isn't canon at all on the battlefield ok (that a new level of distance from game to canon no other hero has had)but like. What's the point of adding Fika if every interaction is non canon?

It's not actually canon rep of animal intelligence then...? Fika in game isn't indicative of Fika in lore at all?

[peak escarp]

correct

Zenyatta is also a noncombatant

[shrewd pivot]

Like at that point, just make Fika an omnic cat so it could explain her modes of intelligence differing.

[shrewd pivot]

Zenyatta might not use his discord/harmony orbs and ult, but Zenyatta is not a pacifist at all, and his in game sapience is the same sapience as his canon

[peak escarp]

I didn't say pacifist

I said noncombatant

he is not a soldier, he doesn't go into combat

so why is he any different from Fika in that regard?

[elfin patio]

Zen's Genji's master

[peak escarp]

yes, and?

[elfin patio]

The whole Omnic Zen Shit is made as a martial art

[peak escarp]

he can fight, that doesn't make him a soldier

[elfin patio]

alright

but that made me realise something

we know actually nothing of zennyatta

[shrewd pivot]

Because Zenyatta's in game sapience is the same as canon sapience, and yes Zenyatta is capable of fighting and does fighting bc he can spar with Genji and win.

Meanwhile, if Fika really is just a regular cat, Fika in game does not represent canon Fika's sapiemce nor canon abilities to combat, in game Fika and canon Fika might as well be two entirely different characters

[elfin patio]

who he was before the iris and mondatta, during the omnic war

we actually don't know who zen is

he could aswell be a soldier

as far as i know it, every omnic was

[shrewd pivot]

I love Zenyatta's trope of being "just some guy, who knows?" so much haha it's great humor