lore-discussion

[edgy meadow]

that has some implications doesnt it

[peak escarp]

gameplay isn't canon

[shrewd pivot]

Hm yeah I was reading that as if he was on the outskirts but not an official Yōkai member yet.

But if Mizuki IS already integrated as a proper full yōkai member (proper double agent), then this Kappa omnic design possibly might... actually be Mizuki.

:/ I hope this isn't a trend of omnic looking designs being revealed as "wait! It's actually just a human in armor!" going forward....

[spare fox]

it's not a trend because it hasn't even happened once yet

that kappa character isn't mizuki, just another kappa-themed character

[peak escarp]

they don't even look alike

the only thing they have in common is a kappa theme

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, I presumed this Kappa omnic was a different character from Mizuki bc Kiriko’s origin short would place this image prior to Mizuki and they don't look alike.

But if Mizuki is already fully integrated into the Yōkai gang, they might be saying "oh this is Mizuki's Yōkai gang disguise" or something, it's not impossible like I had told someone prior

[spare fox]

they're not saying that, you're inserting it

[shrewd pivot]

Let me rephrase: robotic designs, only to reveal it's people wearing armor.

Ie, Lifeweaver is canonically apparently wearing a gauntlet, not a prosthetic arm. The Colosseo gladiators were written as most human fighters with little armor, despite the map suggesting omnics and armor humans as the norm.

[spare fox]

what reveals? there's been no reveals that anyone was posing as an omnic and revealed to be human, ever

they never changed LW nor implied he has a prosthetic, the colosseo gladiators were always a mix of human and omnic, not one presented as "the norm" over the other

[shrewd pivot]

If Mizuki was already in the Yōkai gang, then Mizuki wearing a Yōkai gang skin might be that Kappa omnic.

I HOPE not, I am just saying it's now not out of the possibility.

[spare fox]

well it IS not mizuki, the kappa shown is either omnic or has a cybernetic prosthetic hand - Mizuki is neither... they just have a similar shield to Mizuki's hat that's all

[shrewd pivot]

Lifeweaver's fingers are robot joints, no way human fingers could fit in the joints. Regardless, apparently LW is canonically wearing a gauntlet.

The statues in Colosseo as well as posters had Omnic gladiators and humans with a good amount of armor. In Vendetta's comic, it shows most gladiators are not armored and are WWE wrestler vibes, and no omnics show up except for the statue designs.

[spare fox]

yeah OR the statues of the collosseo gladiators are the characters dressed differently for - get this - different occasions, and they aren't inclusive of ALL gladiators ever within the story

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki has an armor arm that might be a prosthetic arm considering Kappa mythos is about losing an arm and the being in debt.

Again, not saying IT IS, I am saying, if Mizuki was in the Yōkai gang at the time of the image, it would now not suprise me if Mizuki gets a Yōkai skin that looks like that Kappa omnic design (which would then imply that Kappa omnic is intended as Mizuki)

[spare fox]

that wouldn't imply the kappa omnic is intended as Mizuki, you're inserting your own info and then inferring that

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah and you "get" that the designs do indeed look very different. Idk what the attitude is for by saying "get this"

[shrewd pivot]

are we not allowed to discuss hypothesis about foreshadowing in lore in the lore channel... considering Mizuki's story is foreshadowing he will change sides, there might be foreshadowing in other areas too.

I am not inserting, I am saying it's not technically impossible. I had told someone prior it was impossible, so I am correcting myself after learning Mizuki is supposed to be already integrated into the Yōkai gang as a double agent for Hashimoto.

[spare fox]

you are taking two separate situations and because the second is different from the first, saying that they're going back on the situation that happened first, which is not the case. The designs look different between the statues and the comic, they might be the same characters dressed differently or just different characters. The statues aren't inclusive of all gladiators that ever were or are, and Vendetta's comic isn't inclusive of all gladiators either

[remote wing]

i would love that turtle guy to be added tho

[spare fox]

you were stating that the kappa in kiriko's origin story was supposed to be Mizuki and then theorizing that they were taking an omnic character and "revealing" it to be a human in a mask. Then you claimed it was a trend.
It's not a trend because it never happened, and the kappa in kiriko's origin is not mizuki

[shrewd pivot]

The gladiator statue designs look the same in the comic. It's the statue designs vrs the rest of the gladiators, they have a different vibe. Statues are armored human or omnics, gladiators in Vendetta's comic are more WWE wrestler vibes with little armor and only humans.

Symmetra had a prosthetic arm. Lifeweaver LOOKED like he had a prosthetic arm bc his finger joints are robotic in a way that human fingers could not fit, but canon says it is a gauntlet not a prosthesis.

I personally HOPE that Kappa omnic is not Mizuki. I had a discussion prior where i told someone it was IMPOSSIBLE for Mizuki to be that Kappa bc Mizuki was not in the Yōkai gang yet at the time of that image. Now I learned Mizuki is apparently already integrated into the Yōkai gang, so I am correcting myself by saying it's not impossible anymore.

No outright confirmation has said that Kappa omnic ISN'T or IS Mizuki. I hope it isn't Mizuki.

[spare fox]

none of those are "reveals" that a human was disguised as an omnic or was faking a prosthetic, idk why you would even bring them up?

whatever... you're going in circles and I'm done

[shrewd pivot]

I am saying I HOPE this won't be a trend, bc i like omnic/prosthesis designs and I HOPE Mizuki isn't that omnic design. Lifeweaver already had incorrect design for a gauntlet, and Vendetta's gladiators are portrayed as WWE human gladiators despite prior art depicting different vibes in the Colosseo statues.
That is why I said I HOPE this won't be a trend of omnic/robotic designs being confirmed armor for humans, not that it IS one.

And im not intending to talk in circles, I am trying to communicate clearly bc there was a miscommunication, pardon.

[cyan crow]

I dont think Mizuki has any altercations, I think it's his suit that has the chain wrapped around his wrist.

Not altercations

What's the word

[remote wing]

it’s a magic chain tho right

[cyan crow]

Yeah, but that isn't from an omnic prosthetic tho

[wise grotto]

There is no way his arms in there imma be honest
Like
I’d have to look again but there’s no way that an arm can fit in that small of a gap

[spare fox]

Your basis for what would constitute such a trend (you mistaking LW'sgauntlet for a prosthetic, and the different gladiator characters appearing in Vendettas comic making you assume they changed the gladiator "vibe") does not follow with a "trend" to change characters from omnic/prosthetic users to otherwise

[wise grotto]

The lw one is just shitty design on the hands of a gauntlet

That’s it

It’s just a not well thought out design choice

[cyan crow]

I think his hand is a prosthetic but the rest is design for a gauntlet imo

Just to make it work

[spare fox]

I mean Niran is such a good designer and engineer that the gauntlet is made to fit BETTER than a glove

[shrewd pivot]

According to lore, LW's whole arm is there, he is just wearing a gauntlet. Despite this, the gauntlet is designed with robot joints that make it impossible for human fingers to fit in

[spare fox]

It's made to look and function as it does, it's not supposed to look like it's a gauntlet on top of a hand but rather just a part of his hand

[cyan crow]

Bro was big braining in that lab then

[spare fox]

I mean he is one of the best

[wise grotto]

It should not have ball joints on the fingers
Period
They would not function in any way
If they weren’t visibly ball joints it would be fine

That’s literally just a design flaw that isn’t gonna be noticed by many people

Mizuki has a prosthetic arm 1000%

You can see through the arm

[spare fox]

https://share.google/5fEQWmuWkyO6I1XJ7

[cyan crow]

I dont think those are ball joints, more like the glove that's under the armor of the gauntlet imo

[spare fox]

It's not really ball joints just protective armor over the joints

[shrewd pivot]

Not possible, the ball joints make it impossible for human fingers to fit in it. Also a very deep hole in the palm.

The design was an error. Pharah's ow2 design makes it more clear her armor is indeed armor, so it's not unusual.

But yeah, pretty easy to mistaking the gauntlet for a prosthesis at LW's launch considering Symmetra had a prosthesis and Lifeweaver's fingers joints look robotic

[wise grotto]

The thumb here shows the parts that do NOT function unless it’s a ball shape

And from the other angle those are ball joins

Joints

[cyan crow]

Doesn't he have a voiceline about vishkar wanting to cut off his hand for the light source

[shrewd pivot]

Exactly! This isn’t possible for a human hand to fit in.

[spare fox]

Wdym "not possible" obviously - in the work of fiction that is OW - it is possible

[shrewd pivot]

Do I have to draw an outline of the disfigured thumb for LW for you to understand this. Please look at the thumb ball joint. An organic thumb cannot fit into that.

Compare it to another armor character like Reinhardt's armor, obvious joints and room on the glove to allow a human hand inside.

[spare fox]

Like it's also "not possible" that Sigma could survive a black hole of any size, it's not possible for the irradiated outback to breed double cows and hoards of mutants in 25 years, it's not possible to lose a person in time... it's fiction, that's the way that fictional world works because lifeweaver has a thumb that fits in that gauntlet

[shrewd pivot]

Holy crap you are trolling me.
It's about physically how the armor fits together for LW not if superhero powers can exist

[peak escarp]

Reinhardt's hands aren't even in his gloves

[cyan crow]

Nice icon

[shrewd pivot]

What does this mean.

[peak escarp]

the proportions are off - there's no way he could reach his hands all the way to the ends of his gloves

[spare fox]

The suits they use are extendo suits, a little like mechs. Rein is huge but he's not as huge as his suit

[peak escarp]

there's probably some mechanism to extend his reach

like so

actually this one is better

[cyan crow]

I like to think of his armor like a mech suit

[spare fox]

Yeah it's kind of a hybrid concept

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist's organic body had similar proportions tho (as in, overly large muscular build, showcasing its probably shape use), and Reinhardt skins, despite making his hands too large, give Reinhardt hands where his armor hands are.

[spare fox]

Ok you see, THIS. Doomfist's design isn't Reinhardt's design. Doomfist is Doomfist and Reinhardt is Reinhardt and they're both correct and true

[cyan crow]

Dooms proportions are different imo

Right where the fist is on his gauntlet I'd assume his hand is right at the wrist of it

[shrewd pivot]

Okay then why did beach skins not give Reinhardt pool floaty arms. Why did skins give Reinhardt human hands.

[spare fox]

Exactly. You can't be like "well Reinhardt's armor design is indirect bc DF's proportions work different" that does not logically follow.

[shrewd pivot]

It's the same logic as Hanzo having skinny ankles, thus Pharah must have skinny ankles--and that turned out to be true. If there's large dramatic shape use, then it's reasonable to assume Reinhardt has shape use for his arms. It's ALSO reasonable to theorize about extended armor arms.

You can't tell me Reinhardt has fake armor arms "bc logic" without canon evidence, and then say that Lifeweaver's thumb makes sense to fit a human thumb into "bc its just scifi fiction" -- the thumb joint doesn't fit a human finger.

[cyan crow]

Cuz he's full human?? No prosthetics

[spare fox]

Bc those skins aren't canon and for game design purposes they need silhouettes and hit boxes to be accurate

[peak escarp]

you're overthinking it

[remote wing]

wait since when does life weaver not have a prosthetic is that confirmed

[spare fox]

It's a gauntlet, the most recent Christmas comic confirms that

[remote wing]

thats such a lame design choice imo

[cyan crow]

None of their skins are canon unless they're lore related right?

[shrewd pivot]

Spookycakes you are trolling by saying Lifeweaver's thumb doesn't look robotic (it does, impossible to fit a human thumb in there), only to then give (a very good theory i might add!) that Reinhardt's hands aren't containing his organic hands instead as if it's canon.

It's obvious the Lifeweaver robotic joint was a mistake.

[peak escarp]

even the lore related ones take some liberties

[fossil wren]

So the new era and new empire skins are canon?

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-hat-smol-gif-16247795867102792011

[spare fox]

LW's glove IS robotic and that's why the joints look like that but they're OVER his real hand. Idk why you're arguing that it doesn't or can't fit bc clearly it does, he wears it.

[shrewd pivot]

Sorry @edgy meadow im just confused by the hypocrisy here.

People can make theories on Reinhardt's armor being more than shape use, but looking at objective facts that Lifeweaver's joints are robotic in design (i agree canon says its a gauntlet) is apparently me overthinking fictional designs.

[peak escarp]

okay, the robot joints were a mistake by the artist

[shrewd pivot]

The design is incorrect
I will draw an outline of LW's disfigured hand in the gauntlet.

[peak escarp]

maybe they changed their minds about it being a prosthetic but it was already in the pipeline

[shrewd pivot]

Thank you

[peak escarp]

is that all you wanted? to be right?

[shrewd pivot]

My guess too

[shrewd pivot]

??? It's not about being right, it's about the hypocrisy of spookycakes saying Lifeweaver's gauntlet isn't robotic looking at all despite body proportions, but then being fully on board with a theory about Reinhardt's armor not containing Reinhardt's real hands bc of body proportions.

[spare fox]

Yeah the problem is that he's gonna take the "maybe they changed their minds about LW'S design" bit and use it as evidence that "they changed Mzuki from being an omnic to human"

[shrewd pivot]

I litterally never said or implied that.

Edit: Idk how it came off like I was saying "LW gauntlet was changed later on from robotic to human hand, so Mizuki MUST BE changed later on from omnic to human". I don't believe that, and I never said this, and I still have no idea how you two came to this conclusion. You asked about what trend I was worried about becoming a thing, so I gave LW as an example of design inconsistency. I don't believe LW has a canonically prosthetic arm, and I don't believe Mizuki was an omnic originally, I litterally HOPE MIZUKI ISN'T THE CASE. That's all I was expressing.

[peak escarp]

it sure sounded like that's what you were saying

[wise grotto]

I’m just here to say Lws hand and joints in particular are a shitty design for something meant to be a gauntlet

[peak escarp]

agreed

[spare fox]

Except both can be true. LW's gauntlet is a gauntlet that he wears and Reinhardt's body proportions aren't exactly the same as his armor

[wise grotto]

For a gauntlet that goes over his hand closely fitting Lws gauntlet is a shitty ass design and just fundamentally fails to understand what fingers are

[spare fox]

Just like Doomfist's design doesn't negate either Rein or LW

[wise grotto]

Maybe they’ll change one day

[shrewd pivot]

To be clear, AGAIN I DON'T THINK MIZUKI IS THAT OMNIC DESIGN. For whatever reason you are insisting something I did not say.

Again: I said that it was not IMPOSSIBLE that Mizuki could be intended as that Yōkai Kappa omnic design, because I had told someone PRIOR that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Mizuki to be that omnic bc of the timeline of the image.

I JUST learned about Sombra Mizuki line, so that image might actually work timeline wise for when Mizuki was already in the Yōkai gang.

I expressed that I HOPE Mizuki is NOT the omnic.

[wise grotto]

Lws is different in the sense at least the other two make sense
Lws doesn’t

[shrewd pivot]

Idk what I have done, but there is a LOT of unwarrented passive aggressive behavior here.

[cyan crow]

I love this gif sm

[spare fox]

There isn't.

[shrewd pivot]

This is the best I can do ignoring the ball joints, yet the thumb is missing entire muscle sections bc its designed as robotic. We can agree that the gauntlet design is a mistake bc of the ball joint design Spookycakes, right?
The gauntlet design as is cannot actually house Lifeweaver's organic hand. That's not me overthinking fiction as you said prior, it's physically how the armor interlocks.

[shrewd pivot]

Okay, if it is not passive aggressive behavior, then stop putting words into my mouth please.
I never said Mizuki was originally an omnic.

[west sky]

Why doesn’t lucio like domina

And is Jetpack cat brig cat or a different cat

[peak escarp]

she is a different cat who is also Brig's cat

[west sky]

Oh ok

[peak escarp]

Lucio doesn't like Domina because she's a VP of Vishkar, the company that his father worked for and had his work stolen by

Vishkar also gentrified his neighbourhood in Rio

[west sky]

Interesting

[shrewd pivot]

Domina works for Vishkar, and Domina happens to be the one that secured Vishkar's rebuilding of Rio which ended up oppressing Lúcio's family and people. It is unclear if Lúcio specifically knows Domina was the one to secure the rebuilding bid, but regardless Lúcio is hostile to Vishkar employees.

[west sky]

🫡

Thank you for the explanation

[peak escarp]

any time

[toxic flax]

shouldnt the comic not be canon then

i swear lifeweavers gauntlet hand prosthetic thingy was something attached to his arm

[peak escarp]

that was never confirmed

only Symmetra's was, so it was extrapolated that other architechs had prosthetic arms as well

it's more likely that Symmetra is the exception, not the rule

[shrewd pivot]

Tbh I never thought Reinhardt's proportions made sense for certain skins and especially his mythic, his chest proportions are messed up, and his hands much too large.

I had assumed Reinhardt's arms were a cartoony design akin to Roadhog or Doomfist arms/build like how Hanzo and Pharah ankles are very tiny but it's just shape use for human ankles, but I really like the armor theory tbh. I hope if they ever delve into it, it ends up confirming that theory of the hands being mechanical extensions.

Yeah someone in the creator program confirmed Lifeweaver's arm is a gauntlet and not prosthesis at all.

[toxic flax]

didnt we see an unarmored rein in his cinematic he looks nothing like how he does in game

[shrewd pivot]

I think so yeah

It's hard to say tho bc Brigitte looks entirely different too, even in later cinematics Brigitte has a lot less muscle to her

[toxic flax]

i think thats js cz of her armor

maybe

[shrewd pivot]

I would assume so too, but The kpop collab was a HD cinematic and Brigitte was a lot less muscular

Which is sad, Brigitte should have kept her muscular build from the og cinematic imo

[peak escarp]

she looks even skinnier in her first appearance

in the Dragonslayer comic

[toxic flax]

omg she looks like moira

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah... the comics can vary wildly in style tbf, even between artists.

[peak escarp]

I believe this comic was the first thing Nesskain worked on for Overwatch

he was responsible for designing Brigitte

long before she became a hero

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Nesskain has an oc that has similar hair design and muscular build too

[toxic flax]

if nesskain is an official designer for overwatch wouldnt the character fall in concept rather than oc

not to be nitpicky or anything

i js assume ocs are fanmade

[shrewd pivot]

The oc is for Nesskain's own story, there was a comic with the oc in it. So it's more oc with writing, less hero ideation left as a single image.

[toxic flax]

i see

my apologies

[shrewd pivot]

Nono you're good! It's good to clarify these things. /genuine

[toxic flax]

yippee

i suppose

[junior maple]

this game has lore?

[peak escarp]

yes, would you like to learn about it?

[glad osprey]

ig he didn't

Can't wait for Sombra to free sigma

Mark my words, null sector will find doomfist's body, brainwash him and use him as a strong unit

wait no they retreated so idk

[peak escarp]

Doomfist isn't dead

[elfin bane]

woah she looks like my aunt in that

that artstylr really cool actually

[remote wing]

question, has vendetta not made the connection that reaper killed her dad yet?

[toxic flax]

pretty sure she knows

[remote wing]

she doesn’t want revenge?

[toxic flax]

she probably does

shes been killing all the executives

her aim is probably him next

thats likely why he left

[remote wing]

ohh got it

[brittle sky]

Interactions suggest otherwise

[willow rose]

Is mizuki overwatch or talon

[civic lynx]

Currently talon via association (he’s with the Hashimoto but they work with talon), it seems he will switch to OW later on

[willow rose]

Oh nice i hope for a teamup with kiriko if she joins OW

[civic lynx]

I don’t think they’ll do any team ups or kit changes for him when leaves 😭

His kit and in game personality already seems built with him as part of ow in mind

[tulip oar]

ive just come back for this latest update use to love folowign the lore and now its coming back

can someone catch me up to speed what happened to ow 2 story?

like what happened with null sector did they basically get beaten by ow

and now a couple years later we have this event

like do I have the history correct lore wise

or is no one quite sure how the ow2 story we got fits into the timeline

[lapis thicket]

Please save sigma

[civic lynx]

Null sector led by ram was attacking most cities with the goal of taking all omnics so they could be uploaded into a hivemind (I think someone plz correct me if wrong on that bit) where they could be safe from humanity’s constant discrimination and wait until humans eventually kill themselves off through wars and conflicts, ram mostly achieved this goal and then retreated to Antarctica to sit and wait until that happens. Vendetta moves in on talon basically immediately after null sector’s retreat and is trying to rule the whole world

[tulip oar]

oh I see thank you sm ❤️

[tulip oar]

Did ram get all the omnics at the monastary?

Im giessing zen faught him off or managed to escape?

[willow rose]

Zen was captured by talon

[civic lynx]

I’m not the most knowledgable on what happened to those ones but I know he got a lot of omnics that were in cities

[molten bridge]

Hello there. I am a potential new player and I have a random question. Is there an in-lore reason for what’s going on in matches, as well as the fact that characters who should be on opposite sides of the conflict are working with each other (and sometimes there are cases of duplicates fighting duplicates)?

I guess I was spoiled somewhat by Marvel Rivals, which starts every round giving a lore reason why you are fighting each other in the round. Is it the same in Overwatch?

[cosmic crest]

No. PvP matches are not cannon

[glad zenith]

No more Japanese characters pls

[molten bridge]

I see. Are there other matches that are lore-compliant?

[cosmic crest]

There have been some PvE missions that are cannon

[glad zenith]

When is the wrecking ball animated short

[molten bridge]

Ok, cool. Haven’t seen much of the story yet (aside from the intro to this season with Talon’s leadership fight). Excited to get into the story.

[spare fox]

take your time and enjoy. There's a bunch of resources pinned on this channel to check out

[wind osprey]

how come sombra's research is artistic depictions of vendetta from the comic and not like photographs/screenshots similar to the cinematic? did sombra draw?

[willow rose]

Any idea whats going to happen to sigma

[civic lynx]

Probably eventually saved from talon by Sombra but they haven’t hinted at how she’ll do it yet

[smoky tendon]

#FreeDoomfist

[brittle sky]

We don't know if it's a hivemind, just that he is putting them (or their minds) somewhere safe.

[shy tapir]

you guys newbie question. does the ow lore mostly consist of the cinematics and comics? any secret 3rd thing i should know about. what i mean is are those the only 2 things i gotta watch/read?

[spring agate]

so is mauga a bad guy or did he just join talon for the money

[smoky tendon]

he's just a silly guy

[spring agate]

big silly guy who makes bad choices. he just like me fr

[spare fox]

well, there's a TON, besides the in-game voicelines and interactions, there's a bunch of short stories, a couple books/novels that you can read, Declassified which is like an in-universe text book

[wise grotto]

He’s a fairly evil dude csuse he just really likes fighting and causing chaos
Talon just@happens to pay his ass for that

[spring agate]

Also why does he have two hearts. Like it was a surgery but any reason he wanted that

[wise grotto]

His first one was fucked and he needed a second one in order to stay functional I believe

Like he also was doing too much for what one heart can keep up with

[peak escarp]

there are animated shorts, comics and short stories (some have "story time" versions where it's a video read out by the VAs), but there are also blog posts and articles as well as 3 published novels - a full list of all the lore sources can be found in a google doc I have linked in the pins on this channel

[shrewd pivot]

An accident happened, and Mauga had an emergency surgery to place a cybernetic heart into him. Then later on, he got more augments. So it's one cybernetic heart, and possibly his og heart is augmented too now.

Notably, Samoa is called "the heart of Polynesia" and contains two main islands. I infer that Mauga has two hearts as a reference to that.

[peak escarp]

in fact, here, since we've got so many new people lately: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BFYjC78shFuhpu4Fm0l99qKQznIc7lPouQaikD5YvkY/edit?usp=sharing

[spring agate]

i was kinda intrigued by the possible moral dillema of obtaining someone else's heart for the sake of his life, but cybernetic is cool too, and explains why hes capable of using overdrive

there's a really fun fairy tale style concept in the original paper mario where a monster removed its heart and hid it so his body could be indestructible. that in particular is likely too out there for overwatch, but i like heart based ideas like that

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that would have been very interesting!
two hearts also explains his now hulked out look (he was less muscular prior), more oxygen flowing through the body to support muscle growth + augments.

I still have to deep dive into Samoa mythos to see if Mauga is any reference in particular to certain legends or beliefs, I will be sure to let chat know if I find anything notable

[spring agate]

old mythology has some really out there ideas and i love it for that. and sure, let me know!

outsmarting terrifying things much stronger than you is a trope i dearly love

[shrewd pivot]

Same, Mauga's personality of 'playing dumb' but being exceptionally strategic and smart is a really fun dynamic to see play out with other characters/situations, very compelling to watch on screen

[spring agate]

having two hearts is an idea that sounds a lot like a folk hero. a man so large and full of vitality that it can only be explained that way

[wooden drift]

Im sorry but we're probably getting one more this year

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. And atleast in my inferences/theories, Mauga may have gained an autoimmune disease after the upgrades, he didn't have that white streak in his hair originally. The white streak could have been caused by an autoimmune disease and autoimmune diseases can cause narcissistic/psychopathic personality(medical definition, not dramatizing here) changes. Mauga is very much "live today like it's your last" and seems to be searching for Baptiste in an unhealthy way.

Not saying Mauga couldn't have been like this personality prior to upgrades, but he WAS a freedom fighter supporting an eco rights battle in polynesia before the surgery, so we don't know if there was a big change in ethics or if Mauga was always a narcissist psychopathic personality looking for an excuse for doing violence.

Also, that all said, I must admit that unfortunately Mauga falls into a rather rough ||"Wild Samoan"|| wrestler heel stereotype, considering his personality and cage fight ult. My guess is that he's meant to subvert the trope by feigning ignorance but actually being smarter than his opponents, but still ehhhh notable to point out since im discussing the topic.

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-hat-smol-gif-16247795867102792011

[spring agate]

well if it makes you feel better, this one cant double jump or wall climb

[shrewd pivot]

Speaking of Polynesia League, holy,,, I am so interested in the super coral lore. It's like, an ecological nightmare (assuming the writers didn't add it in willy nilly).

supercoral covered the sea/ocean floors to the point ships were having trouble navigating. (Source: De:Classified)

I wonder if the supercoral reached Australia's coral reef coasts, bc if so what would the Outback radiation do to supercorals...

[edgy meadow]

supercoral?

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, the museum on Samoa map goes into it, but Declassified also did too.

A country in the Polynesia League created supercorals to be resistant to climate issues like pollution etc. The super corals seem to absorb/process pollution to clean the waters? But the super corals rapidly overgrew to the point ships had issues navigating routes.

Im a bio nerd so atleast to me, the idea that a certain species of corals suddenly overgrows past niche areas, is a VERY scary implication. There are corals that are better in shallow waters vs deeper waters, and each corals species plays an important role in a healthy reef ecology.

Basically, you would never want a monoculture of corals that rapidly grow, growing through different niches of water depth.
Overwatch's super corals seem to have atleast rapidly grew, if not grown into deeper waters.

Irl there are "super coral" efforts, tempering certain corals species to be resistant to higher water acidity/temperatures

[brittle sky]

Mizuki can't. The likely season 3 hero might.

[edgy meadow]

huh, i didnt know this was mentioned anywhere in the lore

very cool stuff

considering how much the environment and conservation efforts are relevant to early overwatch lore

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah there's also unexplained weather anomalies, Mei was studying those a bit. It's very peculiar bc its not just earth, even Mars was getting unexplained Mars weather anomalies too.

I have a feeling it's not just the usual climate change, considering unexplained weather phenomenon is a staple in scifi pulp fiction to imply something bigger. And firefall mmo (had overwatch artists on it) had weather phenomenon you went to investigate. That's my big tinfoil hat theory, that the weather anomalies have something more to them than just climate change lol

[edgy meadow]

one also must wonder how much anubis knew about all of these that led to its decision to turn on humanity

[shrewd pivot]

Notably, the storm that occured in Maximilien's archives mission isn't logical, it would have to B line it unnaturally to hit the areas iirc

[merry mason]

Idk I think the writers just thought that coral dying = bad therefore more coral = good but yeah I hope they acknowledge that an all consuming coral super colony would be way, way worse

[shrewd pivot]

For sure. All we know is that Anubis went rogue, but it's unclear HOW Anubis managed it. Was it an oversight that allowed Anubis to escape and go rogue? Did someone intentionally let Anubis go rogue like an outside sabotage? Or was it sabotage in giving Anubis incorrect info to cause it to come to the conclusion humanity must be deleted?

Regardless, Anubis as the god ai for conservation efforts seemingly came to the conclusion humanity was killing the ecosystem, and that humanity must end to protect the ecosystem.

[brittle sky]

while weather (both natural disaster and indication of climate change's advance) is a factor in the setting, Mei's weather anomoly is hypothesized to be the result of a hidden anubis omnium, even where ram's base is.

[brittle sky]

grey goo scenario with coral

[merry mason]

In general I kind of soured on declassified’s worldbuilding tech stuff because the algae thing would break the whole system but it’s literally never once brought up in-game

Or anywhere else really

Like how did Mexico lose power for so long if any random person can just scoop up pond scum and power their house for the foreseeable future

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. I am also shocked overwatch worldbuilding doesn't have bioprinters for food and still relies on butchery factories (Cassidy lore, tbh it might have just been post crisis but still bioprinters are more efficient for food), nor does overwatch worldbuilding have aeroponics for the space colony(considering in a gravity environment which the lunar colony has, aeroponics are much more efficient than hydroponics)

[wise grotto]

I’m assuming the bioprinters thing hasn’t been needed in universe
There doesn’t seem t be anywhere that struggles for food and it doesn’t seem to be a theme ows world cares about anyway

In that one regard ows universe has handled it very well

[shrewd pivot]

Not to mention, the ecological devastation surface level algae that use photosynthesis would cause. Certain kinds of Algae blooms make the waters toxic to life as they photosynthesize, then the algae blooms fall and carry that death blanket all the way to the bottom of the ocean, asphyxiating or toxic shocking anything in its fall path. That's why rising water temps are so dangerous irl, the algae HABs (Harmful Algae blooms) decimate entire parts of ocean ecosystems like a death march downwards to the bottom.

[shrewd pivot]

True, i only say this bc Cassidy's lore in the Ashe novel had him working at inhumane pig butchery factories, and Symmetra's lore implies India's slums still exist (which implies poverty, not hygienic, food insecurity, health issues, etc)

I would argue food insecurity is probably still a problem globally? Especially after the crisis where god ais were taken down that would have handled the global systems of food transport. Just bc humanity has the resources, doesn't mean it gets to everyone who needs it.

[edgy meadow]

ive always had the vibe that its narratively intended that Anubis just came to this conclusion independently as a criticism of humanity's global treatment to the ecosystem

but then again that could always just be elaborated upon to make it not so

[shrewd pivot]

Same here! My inference/theory is that Anubis actually came to the objectively correct conclusion that humanity was killing ecosystems. Then Anubis went "rogue" and went to delete humanity (either by its own accord in finding a loophole, or by an outside sabotage letting anubis out of its restraints) I say inference bc if Anubis was in charge of managing conservation and global ecosystems, killing invasive species would be apart of Anubis' tool set i imagine. It was probably just following it's programing, and bc it came to the conclusion humanity was a threat instead of say, lionfish or something, Anubis was defined as "going rogue" bc humanity is MC syndrome lol

my hypothesis is that humanity built a tool to manage ecosystems to prevent ecological destruction/death of earth, and the tool went on to do just that.

It falls in line with human hubris of creating tech without thinking of the consequences, like with Mina Liao's story.

[wise grotto]

Why can’t people just code in a line saying “without wiping out humanity” regarding makinf ais with the goal or protecting the environment

[crystal saffron]

why does echo have new era skin

when u join talon

[wise grotto]

How many horrible incidents would be stopped via doing that

[crystal saffron]

she might join talon in storyline?

[shrewd pivot]

Someone on the outside may have sabotaged Anubis by deleting that line of code, we don't know for sure!

[young dragon]

If they win and are able to kidnap her perhaps.

[wooden drift]

Skins usually aren't canon

[young dragon]

Seems like based on popularity, Talon’s gong to win this event and easily win the first round. I didn’t realize so many people disliked Sojourn.

[crystal saffron]

i dont dislike soj

i just like

black red color

[crystal saffron]

they cant go wrong

[shrewd pivot]

There are some odd lines when Echo copies Emre, implying the eye conspiracy might be trying to hack Echo or is atleast interacting with Echo.

The two skins might just be fluff, but maybe not! If the eye conspiracy is forcing Emre to work with Talon, maybe if the eye conspiracy gets Echo it would force her to work for Talon too.

It's all speculation tho, no concrete answers as of yet.

[brittle sky]

that sentence could have gone much worse than it did

[young dragon]

Other people were saying the same thing. You’re in good company.

[meager geyser]

Same

I wanted to join Overwatch

[wise grotto]

Yea but how many universes have the same issue

[crystal saffron]

also

[meager geyser]

But Talon skins are so much cooler

[crystal saffron]

in battlepass

talon skins are so much better

than ow skins

mauga skin is actually so good

[young dragon]

I’m just glad this event will let us get Good and Evil Echo for free.

[crystal saffron]

isnt it or?

not and

[young dragon]

Not sure how yet though. Maybe it’s the grand prize for the team that wins. But I doubt it.

[young dragon]

Nah. It started as an OWLeague skin.

[meager geyser]

I wish I could get that Emre skin

WHY IS HE SO EXPENSIVE

[crystal saffron]

that 35$ one?

ultimate battlepass?

[crystal saffron]

idk if its 35$ in usd

[meager geyser]

The one with premium battle pass

[crystal saffron]

im not american

[young dragon]

Also, it’s pretty great that a lot of the old classic event skins are purchasable now. Dr. Mercy, Composer Sigma, etc..

Good for new players and ones who missed out years ago.

[crystal saffron]

they are?

[meager geyser]

172,50 pln

[young dragon]

Yep! Check the shop. They’re not too expensive either.

[crystal saffron]

is lego bastion back

[shrewd pivot]

Eh, it's more like Vendetta taking over hypes up Talon haha. I think the brand new Talon attacking is perhaps more exciting for people than the og overwatch getting the gang back together (+ new recruits) proper.

It would be AWESOME if player input actually impacted story beats tho! Like helldivers or something.
I assumed the faction war was going to be a reoccurring "chose a side" gimmic similar to idk, splatoon "mustard vs ketchup" sides to play for, but I would love actual player choice impacting story beats.

[crystal saffron]

mustard...

[young dragon]

No. Colab skins b tend to come back much less frequently and that one was special.

[crystal saffron]

🥀

[meager geyser]

I don't think LEGO Bastion will ever comeback

I'm glad I have it

Tho, I don't play it

Because yk?

[wise grotto]

That’s cause lego cut ties

[meager geyser]

It's Bastion

[shrewd pivot]

I would be shocked if overwatch manages to regain the LEGO collab after what happened tbh

[wise grotto]

The skin not coming back doesn’t have anything to do with bastion

[young dragon]

It’s the first event with actual stakes and story consequences. Which is nice considering what it will open up in the future. We’ll see this kind of event again but I’m not sure what teams there will be.

The events tend to be much more popular than “for a limited time play Mei’s snowball fight.”

Seeing the evolution of this game really is a nice success story after it was gutted to make a sequel.

[halcyon plank]

hello everyone

[shrewd pivot]

I def feel like the space apes on Lunar colony will be dealt with in a future arc, probably years from now. Lunar colony vs earth would make a good faction side choice to pick for a similar set up

[young dragon]

Hey there. How’s your weekend going? 👋

[young dragon]

The Hammond story was very good about that.

“YOU ARE BEING WATCHED” -H

He’s an egocentric traumatized old man. And it was the first time we truly saw him angry and deadly.

[shrewd pivot]

Man I hope one day we actually do get an arc about Juno's parents. Just for Juno's sake (optumistic future, having hope is a strength narratively), I hope atleast one parent survives.

[crystal saffron]

woudlnt it just be they died at mars gg

[shrewd pivot]

It's just bc Juno is so hopeful, and overwatch presents having hope as a goodness/strength. Atleast one parent, or atleast one member of the mars mission. I could see it going either way tho (no survivors or some survivors), the Mars colony situation is very bleak.

[peak escarp]

screw that, I choose optimism

everyone survives

[crystal saffron]

they somehow evolved and can live at mars without suit or base

[young dragon]

We still don’t know what happened on Luchang’s side of things. But it was a secret project in the first place.

It seems like it’s not a concern for their current leadership at least.

[peak escarp]

they have suits and a base, that's not the problem

the problem is the weather is getting worse

as of their most recent transmission, they're all still alive

[spare fox]

the only thing up in the air (forgive the semi-pun) about the Mars mission is how much of what Dr. Chao said was true

especially in regards to the likliness of success of the mission

OBVIOUSLY a rescue mission to Mars is always going to have some kind of risk, it'd never be 0

[ancient flame]

isnt anran wuyangs sister or something

[wise grotto]

Yes

[ancient flame]

idk i havent touched overwatch in like 67 years

[wise grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier76-overwatch-67-meme-jack-morrison-gif-10260015071089858250

[ancient flame]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier76-overwatch-67-meme-jack-morrison-gif-10260015071089858250

[twilit patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/soldier76-overwatch-67-meme-jack-morrison-gif-10260015071089858250

[brittle sky]

Following up on moon apes also would mean following up on one of the two 'definitely sounds like a future character' interaction-based characters we have hanging out there.

[gleaming fox]

I thought of something that I bet is here but is emrie the person who attacked sombra?

[brittle sky]

no, but the entity that controls emre is also likely what sombra encountered/was attacked by

[silent arch]

Why does hazard do the Haka as a celebration if he is Scottish?

[brittle sky]

I don't think he's doing a haka so much as a punk sticking out tongue thing

[wise grotto]

That’s just the punk rock tongue thing

[silent linden]

I need people to dies

Give me like games of throne level of tragedy

[cosmic crest]

That'd be a dumb idea

[silent linden]

Why

[sudden lark]

Why nobody talking about that we have canon cyborg unmasked genji

[delicate sparrow]

How does the guy who fought a juiced up gorilla, cyborg ninja, time traveler and a high tech angel lose to a woman with a sword and a vendetta?

Also if doom is out of the picture for now how do you think he’ll come back?

[sudden lark]

They maybe working on ANOTHER rework of doom fist

[edgy meadow]

ego

vendetta has already been portrayed to be a talented fighter, its how she started her career

but doomfist didnt give her the respect she deserved

so he just egoed

its not that doomfist isnt strong, he just lost to pride and hubris

[junior forge]

Do we even know more about Mizuki?

Or do we need Blizzard to release some kind of short movie or idk

[fleet nimbus]

was baptiste originally a member of talon?

[junior forge]

From what I remember, yes

[fleet nimbus]

do we know how he found himself there or

[junior forge]

Don't remember

All I know is that he has some interactions with Mauga

(And Doomfist... and basically other Talon members)

Btw, do we even know why Sombra, Reaper, and Widowmaker left?

ESPECIALLY WIDOWMAKER?

Isn't she supposed to not feel any emotions?

[spare fox]

You should watch his origin story short

And then he has a short story explaining why he left Talon and how Mauga is after him

[edgy meadow]

wdym by 'more'

theres the lore on his page in the official overwatch website

if you havent read it

besides that and character interactions, nothing yet

but very likely soon

[junior forge]

I know, but there isn't something else missing? It's that all it? That's my question

[edgy meadow]

thats all we have so far

plus a few character interactions that reveal some lore

[junior forge]

Only Kiriko having the major parts

[edgy meadow]

like mizuki still not fully knowing that kiriko is toshiro's daughter

[edgy meadow]

ye for the most part

[junior forge]

No way

https://tenor.com/view/what-im-sorrr-what-what-did-you-shocked-meme-gif-2263698642455486664

[edgy meadow]

also that hanzo is untrusting of mizuki

[junior forge]

(Failed gif...)

[edgy meadow]

you need to be here for a few weeks before you get media perms

[junior forge]

Yeah, I need more context for that

[edgy meadow]

we most liekly will get it soon

[edgy meadow]

yes

[shrewd pivot]

Discussed what trench coat omnic could possibly be with a friend and there's some funny possibilities if the trenchcoat omnic is a cinema/media reference:

Sherlock (obvious, iconic pulp fiction, possible omnic dandy)

Dr.House (which is just a version of Sherlock, but it would be hysterical if trenchcoat omnic is like that personality at all. Trenchcoat omnic has the cane)

Columbo (iconic 1960s-70s tv, bumbling but brilliant detective)

Fallout Nick Valentine (SOMA horror, a hammy detective)

I wish we had a visual to the design beyond a silhouette, the meme potential is huge lol

https://x.com/UniwatchOW/status/2022310290377892110?s=20

Awww this is a cute voice interaction

Jetpack Uniwatch (@UniwatchOW)

Iggy x Lucio? @OW2voicelines

▶ Play video

X · Feb 13, 2026, 2:02 PM

[wooden drift]

So much interaction they did with Lucio after his va got available

Kinda unreal

[toxic flax]

“are you not going to ask me what my favorite little creature is?”

[wooden drift]

Yeah, that one is perfect

[glad osprey]

all I want is a jetpack cat and Hammond interaction

[wooden drift]

And bastion

[cosmic crest]

Lucio can do better

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah tru tbf iggy listens to fake punk bands 😔

Lol

[brittle sky]

Iggy slander here.

[cosmic crest]

Iggy had the worst first impression

I only remember that time she got mad at Tracer for not killing herself

[brittle sky]

Nah, flawed as London calling was, Iggy is like, one of the last characters with nuance we've seen of late.

Oh c'mon you know that's an exaggeration. She was disappointed in a human saying she wanted to help omnics then immediately failing to stop the assassination of robot MLK happening in front of her.

[cosmic crest]

It's still shit

[brittle sky]

Getting hung up on the logistics of how that failure occurred ignored the very valid wider strokes of that.

[cosmic crest]

There is nothing valid about it. She risked her life to try and save Mondatta's. Even if she failed it's still a bad reason to get upset. The way it's framed in the comic is even worse, it makes it seem Like Iggy expected Tracer to take the bullet instead of recalling out of the way.

[brittle sky]

For all tracers good intent, she failed repeatedly to save omnics of the underground. Couldn't save mondatta (retreading that ground was absolutely redundant and clumsy, but does signify a failure), she didn't stop the police of her own nation from killing unarmed omnics with a sound cannon, and the underground remains an apartheid state. Her one dub of the comic was when a community leader went rogue and threatened to be a problem for humans. I honestly think tracer got ample grace.

[shrewd pivot]

i also think it's worth noting that the comic explores the horrors omnics face, including kace's extreme outlook, and the comics focuses on tracer helping create omnic human relations as well as address what it means to be a hero. Tracer lives with the guilt of Mondatta's death, and seeing tracer navigate that with omnics that are rightfully suspicious of how authentic a human's support is was a pretty decent idea imo. Could have been done better ofc, but it got it's point across.

[dense garnet]

Yeah they practically confirmed that Kiriko's age was incorrect in her origin story. She's meant to be much younger than the Shimadas but they made them look similar of age in that short

She has a unique line when eliminating Genji that she's all grown up now

So it's like a soft confirmation

[shrewd pivot]

it does seem like they backtracked some of Kiriko's lines with Genji iirc.
Regardless most agree Kiriko ought to be around 29 or so for things to make sense if prior lore was to be believed.
Atleast they got Emre's age right at 44 haha

[dense garnet]

I don't think they wanna change ages if they can help it

[shrewd pivot]

yeah they had the chance when Sojourn's age was changed so it isss what it issss

[dense garnet]

Do we know how old Genji was when Hanzo "killed" him?

[shrewd pivot]

hm. maybe by extrapolation of dates? i don't recall atm, but maybe someone else can answer.

[dense garnet]

Okay so Genji and Hanzo would've been 23 and 26 respectively when their father died, and Kiriko was 7 years old at that time.

So that means Kiriko was 4 when training with the Shimadas when they were 20 and 23

So the line about her now being all grown up does make it make more sense

[shrewd pivot]

based on what source? (not that i am distrusting you, it's that iirc some of the years around kiriko's lore are contradictory, iirc one is 8 years the other is 12 years? it's very confusing stuff)

[dense garnet]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/s/gWTZ3s1QbO

Judt extrapolating from this

Also I think it's funny that Tracer says "look how much you've grown" or something like that to Brig when Tracer is only like 3 years older than her

[shrewd pivot]

yeah there's some funky stuff with kiriko's age

[dense garnet]

But I take it as they haven't seen each other in a long time

Atp I just want them to touch up on what anima is exactly because I'm fiending for it

I still find the thought funny that the Shimadas train together as young adults and their mentor just decide to bring her 4 year old daughter to work

[shrewd pivot]

yeah lmao

[sand veldt]

Is Emre the most powerful lore character now

He’s bonded to a god-ai

[dense garnet]

A very restricted god AI

It's not like Chernobog can do whatever he wants

That's why he's using Emre to infiltrate bases

And he was evenly matched with Freja, who was holding back

[sand veldt]

Although I’m wondering why the god ai gives emre sun powers

If it’s an ai

[peak escarp]

sun powers?

[dense garnet]

I don't think it's sun powers. But it could be something adjacent

[peak escarp]

it just makes him shoot

[sand veldt]

Energy

Whatever

Those aren’t bullets

[peak escarp]

energy makes sense

[sand veldt]

That doesn’t seem fair

Restricted god ai yeah but like

Afaik she doesn’t have one at all

[peak escarp]

Emre didn't fight Freja

he came out of his possessed state when he saw her

[sand veldt]

That’s kind of sweet actually

I heard they were friends

[peak escarp]

there's something between them

[dense garnet]

They fought briefly

She even used her ult on him

[sand veldt]

Is that canonical?

Canonical ship

[sand veldt]

I’m guessing he didn’t ult back

Cause power of love

[peak escarp]

it's canon that they have a relationship, although the nature of that relationship is unknown

they were close in Overwatch

could just be good friends

[sand veldt]

Hope we get to see the two in a cinematic similar to Dragons one day

[dense garnet]

He ulted too

He just ulted at Helix soldiers

They fought each other briefly but once the Helix soldiers came in, he went all out against them

While Freja watched

But anyways yeah, even though Chernobog is a God-AI, he doesn't even have a fraction of his full capabilities due to basically being restricted to Emre's body

Otherwise he'd easily be able to access Helix security information without needing to infiltrate them physically

He's definitely on the stronger side of the roster though imo. Not many heroes on the roster I'd consider a living weapon like him

Maybe Reaper and Mauga

And Genji

[sand veldt]

Still I’m puzzled how a machine lets him do stuff like this

[dense garnet]

Digitalized nonsense

[shrewd pivot]

there's..... let's say an very unfortunate reason that kiriko is portrayed this way. Pardon the late reply I was looking for the tweet source.
Chu confirmed Kiriko was based on a character from a very infamous Ace attorney game (like seriously, the ace attorney fandom pretends this game did not happen, I am kind of shocked Chu casually mentioned this specific game).
https://x.com/westofhouse/status/1824568633072423184

The game deals with some really messed up stuff so i won't get into details but Kiriko's age being stupid in ow lore (way too young) coincides with the weird thing of 9 year old Pearl Fey transforming into the spirits (adults, etc) that possess her. I would hope Chu meant Maya not Pearl, but Pearl has a whole arc of dealing with a family line of being Shrine maidens and such, and Maya shows up in other games, so... yeah.

Michael Chu 瞿華明 (@westofhouse)

You might have heard that Hanzo’s and Genji’s stories were partially inspired by my love of Jiro Dreams of Sushi. Similarly, my original story for Kiriko also drew inspiration from an unlikely source: Phoenix Wright: Justice for All.

Currently replaying the #AceAttorney series!

X · Aug 16, 2024, 10:07 PM

[dense garnet]

We really don't know other than speculation

[sand veldt]

Mauga?

[dense garnet]

Mauga in his animated short was decimating an army of null sector bots while Reaper was sweating against a seemingly smaller group of them

[sand veldt]

Huh

So top three would be sigma, Emre, Mauga?

In that order

[dense garnet]

If we're going by pure power, maybe?

[sand veldt]

Speaking of sigma

…

My poor poor man

Even doom didn’t treat him this badly

[dense garnet]

I think Vendetta is afraid of him lowkey

[sand veldt]

I’d be afraid of a schizo genius with gravity powers

[dense garnet]

Sigma is worse of a loose cannon than Mauga

At least Mauga is coherent

Sigma can just snap one mission

[sand veldt]

I heard the new interactions

Sigma sounds straight up enraged for the first time

[dense garnet]

Also fun fact but apparently one if Sigma's idle animations in the select screen is him nearly snapping but coming back to his senses

Actually yeah I just saw it on my own screen lmao

[sand veldt]

Imagine if the next villain is just a sane sigma

Or rather a coherent one

[shrewd pivot]

You could theorize Emre has similar upgrades akin to Sombra's augments giving her digitized abilities. Like, Sombra can hack machinery to use (as seen in her cinematic with the mechs) so maybe Emre has some kind of digitizing augments that the conspiracy is reverse using to control him. Also, hardlight-adjacent tech would explain his "summoning" weapons stuff

[dense garnet]

I want to see snapped Sigma for essentially the first time. He has a very different personality as seen briefly in his origin story all the way back in OW1, but we never see that side of him ingame or in lore

It's just talked about

Snapped Sigma is very sadistic

[sand veldt]

Just add magic blizzard 😔

[dense garnet]

I hope that Vendetta's idea of imprisoning him backfires and he goes full psycho

[sand veldt]

Several of your roster have magic-themed abilities

It’d give more potential for characters as well

[sand veldt]

That’d be terrifying

I don’t think he’d even care about taking over talon though

[shrewd pivot]

pls no (i like maths as a universal language scifi superhero powers source (Tracer, Sigma, Illari, etc), it allows all kinds of cultural stories to be told without a "one canon religion" consequence of canon magic defining souls a certain way)

[dense garnet]

I feel like they don't wanna include magic into the universe because it would kinda break the spirit of a high-tech verse

Also it just isn't

Very creative imo

[shrewd pivot]

and ruin the point of Aurora's scifi imo

[sand veldt]

I’m just a massive fantasy fan

And I don’t have a pc so I can’t play wow

[dense garnet]

I prefer fantasy, ow just isn't that

[sand veldt]

I don’t get where yall are pulling this idea

[shrewd pivot]

i love that overwatch is "fantasy class with a scifi twist" like brig being holy paladin, ramattra is a necromancer, lucio a bard, etc

[sand veldt]

That magic has to be connected to religion in some way

[dense garnet]

Emre is a warlock

[sand veldt]

Emre got that dog in him

[shrewd pivot]

alchemy, especially Wuxing (elements, metaphysics, chi, etc), is tied to religion.
mana, from polynesian belief, is spiritual
souls, are defined in some religions but not others
consciousness, is seen as spiritually sacred in some religions like Hinduism, etc

it's just about keeping the focus on the scifi. I don't mind "magic adjacent" like hardlight and biolight basically being mage spells but scifi!

[dense garnet]

Ghost in The Machine is a legitimate Warlock subclass

Making a pact with a digital being

[sand veldt]

Hm good point

I’m just saying it doesn’t have to be connected to religion

That’s all

[sand veldt]

Huh I never knew that

[dense garnet]

I actually haven't looked into how the Wuxing elemental stuff works. How do they explain that?

[sand veldt]

That’s kind of cool

[dense garnet]

It's usually reserved for more futuristic/cyberpunk settings ofc

[shrewd pivot]

oh really???? That would be such a good ref for Emre then bc Ghost in the Shell HEAVILY inspired Aurora, Aurora basically goes through the same basic journey the MC in Ghost in the Shell goes through (born anew, questions conciousness, eventually sacrifices her individuality to upload into the net to become something /more/)

[dense garnet]

But I've used it in an Artificer-focused campaign

[shrewd pivot]

idk much about DnD bc i don't play it but WoW is inspired by it, and i know Overwatch is inspired by DnD and WoW

[sand veldt]

I keep hearing about aurora

Was she the first God ai?

[dense garnet]

Aurora was the first omnic that gained sentience

And in doing so, every omnic became sentient

She's essentially their god

I think that the Iris is meant to be Aurora, but more specifically, it might be what woke up Aurora

I'm not too versed on the Iris lore

[shrewd pivot]

nope, Aurora is the official first "sapient"(overwatch uses the word sentient but they mean sapient like humans) artificial life due to a quantum mechanics 'miracle' of sorts.
Aurora was an individual, and then during the omnic crisis she sacrificed her individuality to grant anubis hacked omnics free will to stop the crisis. In doing so Aurora "ascended" in some way and created the iris.

Presumably, Aurora "ascended" from individual ai to a larger logistics ai like the god ais, but it's unclear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIYMn8eDskg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC0vBOpFLFQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5_5aYk4WMo&t=9s

I recommend watching the Genesis 2d animated shorts in order to understand Aurora's lore better! It's a good showcase

[sand veldt]

Hm

So there’s Anubis

[dense garnet]

I think that Aurora gave up her physical body to basically become the one's and zero's that gives omnics their sapience

[sand veldt]

Chernobog

Any other god ai?

I heard Chernobog was also a good guy

[dense garnet]

Chernobog's final words before being shut down were "I understand. I'm sorry" iirc

He also knew he was gonna be shut down and wrote a ton of code explaining security protocols so that humanity can do that in his absense

[shrewd pivot]

Yep, it's explored in De:Classified. There might be more but here are some we know:
"The number of god programs is unclear. Some have been declassified and formally acknowledged by their host governments.[2]

Anubis (Temple of Anubis, Cairo, Egypt) -- ecological conservation god ai
Chernobog (Helsinki, Finland) - gloabl security god ai
Macaria (Bridgeport, Connecticut, United States) - communication equity god ai
Xibalbá (Mexico City, Mexico) - energy equity god ai"

[dense garnet]

I think that Emre/Chernobog aren't allied with the conspiracy, despite the eye motif Chernobog has

I think Chernobog is also investigating the conspiracy tbh

Probably sees the conspiracy as a threat to global security

[shrewd pivot]

the eye conspiracy seems to be tied to Chernobog in some way, it wouldn't surprise me if the eye is the icon of Chernobog ai, but no canon confirmation yet.
it's unclear how Chernobog is involved with the eye conspiracy in canon, but it is involved in some way

[dense garnet]

It's 100% involved, I just don't think they're afilliated

[shrewd pivot]

it could be that the eye conspiracy is using Chernobog god ai

[dense garnet]

Or using the security measures it created before it was shut down to their own nefarious means

Maybe the explosion of the swiss hq was from using Chernobog's security measures

Chernobog might just be trying to reclaim his stolen tech

[shrewd pivot]

i mean there's also the possibility Aurora's awakening, granted Chernobog with free will sapience.

it could be anything tbh! aaaa im so hype haha

Also did anyone else notice in the new zenyatta emote "screen time" zenyatta gets a flash of yellow electricity around his head before creating a projection???? Was that yellow electricity effect meant to be the iris or something? We never saw such a yellow glowy electricity effect before

also, the spray is of Zenyatta doing sports on the projected screen in the emote. it's probably not canon at all but that yellow spark effect was odd to me bc it's never happened before for Zenyatta iirc idk

[dense garnet]

Something funny I saw

Jetpack Cat has 225 HP
Each bar of HP is 25
225 ÷ 25 is 9

Jetpack Cat has 9 lives

[shrewd pivot]

lol

hey as long as JPC isn't just a normal cat, im fine with any and all memey additions to JPC

personally i am hoping we get more allegorical kits like with Domina, her kit has storytelling to it and i love that

[dense garnet]

I saw a theory stating JPC is from this lab in Spain

I forget the name of it

[sand veldt]

I don’t think normal cats can pilot jetpacks

Also why is Domina evil?

[shrewd pivot]

yeah me either :)

[dense garnet]

Jealousy

She wasn't born with innate talent like Sym and LW were, so she worked hard to get to the position she's in now, and she pretends to have natural talent while scrutinizing the people that do

[shrewd pivot]

she's corpo evil, faking perfection to gain power/prestige. she's not naturally talanted like Symmetra is, so Domina creates this image of perfection to flaunt to gain power. Domina is very good at negotiations tho

Domina foils Symmetra is a lot of ways tbh i love that

[dense garnet]

She holds a lot of disdain for Sym in their interactions

[shrewd pivot]

oh i haven't heard it yet

[dense garnet]

"The higher ups seem to hold you to such high regard. For some reason"

She's so petty lol

[shrewd pivot]

ohhhh yeah yeah

that one

[sand veldt]

Wdym she’s not as talented

I’m guessing she stole that tech then

[shrewd pivot]

it's the same kind of deal with Emre insulting her shoes, she doesn't comment on the artfulness or design, just that the shoes are more expensive and thus must be superior. She's very much a "doesn't understand art, thinks money is what matters" kinda deal it seems

[shrewd pivot]

she carefully constructs the image that she is highly talented, but her only talents are negotiations. She's not talented like LW and Symmetra are with art/architecture etc

[brittle sky]

(minimally right)

[brittle sky]

I don't think her being a natural talent would have made her less of a corporate ghoul.

And the "hard work" is hard to distinguish between real tenacity and good ol fashion nepotism.

[shrewd pivot]

I agree, though it seems to be a fair read based on how Domina discusses what she values. She is petty against symmetra with a "for whatever reason"

and the Emre shoe comment again, she doesn't counter him with "oh the art is good, these are pretty fashionable" or that the fashion designer artist is famous, she counters with "this is more expensive than you."

her bio also describes this: "Though Vaira had a knack for corporate politics—excelling in all lessons in debate and economics—she wasn’t naturally gifted with the artistic eye that Vishkar sought in its architechs. Desperate to present herself as flawless, Vaira worked tirelessly to shape her reputation. She spent a fortune on private lessons and the development of custom assistive technology that allowed her to compete with even the most lauded Vishkar architechs. In the end, she achieved the appearance of effortlessness she so desired: a practiced and diligent professional masquerading as a natural born talent."

so it seems she struggles with 'naturally getting/understanding' art in some way, probably due to being forced to be "perfect" from the get go, which is damaging for a child's creativity and talent development
"Vaira Singhania grew up with a taste for the finer things in life. As the granddaughter of the Vishkar Corporation’s founder, Dr. Vishwakarma Bhatt, she was expected to inherit the family business. The immense pressure put upon her from a young age quickly shaped Vaira into a cutthroat perfectionist and shrewd negotiator."
-- if you aren't allowed to fail you can never really grow creativity (especially in arts which is self expression) kinda deal. She def struggles with self expression as she constantly hides her true self under a mask of perfection

[silent linden]

I wish i have embeded image

But do you guy remember the scene in overwatch 2 trailer

With Genji and Zen?

God we were robbed

[shrewd pivot]

the pve cinematic?

yeah :( it will never get released...

[dense garnet]

Apparently we were meant to get an Arcane-style TV show, but it didn't fall through

[shrewd pivot]

#10years and we got jebaited with Zenyatta lore lol

[shrewd pivot]

yeah supposed poaching of employees resulted in the overwatch series being canceled, unsure if it's actually arcane style tho

[dense garnet]

Not arcane style but I didn't really have another apt description

[shrewd pivot]

oh yeah yeah ok, mbmb i misunderstood. you're good

[dense garnet]

I would've liked a prequel series, or at least a prequel season 1

That follows the events leading up to the Swiss base event

[shrewd pivot]

that would have been fun, i would have loved to see a "slow corruption" arc of og overwatch that unravels into overwatch being disbanded

[dense garnet]

What if we get post-Talon Reaper story in the form of a show

[shrewd pivot]

i'd be up for more reaper lore :)

[dense garnet]

All 3 members I'd assume would split apart once they left Talon

Widow's pretty much confirmed to go solo now

Sombra is staying close for Sigma

And Reaper probably doesn't wanna do that so

All 3 are pretty much on their own now

I wanna see Reaper's pov

[sand veldt]

You guys are some of the least annoying people I’ve met here

And you’re actually good at explaining things!

[shrewd pivot]

reaper has a line with sombra blackmailing her into helping him, saying if vendetta finds "us" he will take dombra down with him

[dense garnet]

Yeah but it's not exactly canon

It doesn't mean they stuck together

[shrewd pivot]

very true

[dense garnet]

It just means they're together for that particular non-canon match

Same with how Vendetta has lines for Reaper

[sand veldt]

Do yall think doom is dead? I get the feeling they’re setting him up for a comeback

[dense garnet]

It explains their relationships well, but it doesn't mean they actually happened

[sand veldt]

His entire thing is growth through struggle

[dense garnet]

They're not ballsy enough to kill off playable characters

[shrewd pivot]

thanks i suppose but i think it's unfair to call others annoying. people just have different communication styles! miscommunications happen. its all good

[sand veldt]

My theory is he decided he’s gotten too complacent as the leader of talon, as he hasn’t taken any direct action himself

So he didn’t fight as hard as usual against vendetta

As he wants to test himself and purge that complacency again

Seems pretty on brand

[dense garnet]

For example, League of Legends has an expansive lore with over 170 different characters. Only one playable character is confirmed to be dead in the lore

They just don't do that in hero games

[sand veldt]

What do you think of my theory?

[dense garnet]

It's a common theory

[shrewd pivot]

not dead imo, i think he will have a comeback too

[dense garnet]

Probably the most likely

Personally I think Doom's defeat was simply bad writing, but they can make up for it by future writes of him

[shrewd pivot]

it's hard to say if overwatch just botched the writing, or if they are writing Doomfist as playing 5d chess. we'll have to wait and see haha, i certainly hope it's 5d chess and not just cruddy writing

[dense garnet]

I also think they shouldn't have used that fight for the cinematic. It deserved to be a comic because animation is expensive and there's only so much you can add in a 4 minute animation

Dragons got away with this because most of that fight was dialogue and artistry

[sand veldt]

I see people whining about Mary sues

I…half agree but not as obnoxiously

She logically shouldn’t have defeated him but

[shrewd pivot]

yeah why did we dedicate a cinematic to Vendetta monologing when we could have had an ow2 style cinematic of multiple characters grouping together in Talon's invasion of overwatch? Talon attacking overwatch would have been peak cinematic stuff. i hope it will be revealed that it's just from Vendetta's POV and then the next cinematic is from Winston's POV and we actually see the fight that ruined Gibraltar base

[sand veldt]

Didn’t they say we’ll get a lot more cinematics from now on?

[shrewd pivot]

unsure, but i sure hope so!

[sand veldt]

I wanna see Emre in a fully animated cinematic

[peak escarp]

"ow2 style cinematic" what do you mean

[shrewd pivot]

yeah the comic where vendetta showed she was recruiting others, that FINALLY allowed her character to have "show dont tell" competence instead of ooc plot armor of tanking a robot hit to bare skin lol

[dense garnet]

I feel like that "we're being under attack. By Talon" cinematic tease from Winton will be part of a future cinematic, cuz it feels weird to make an animation for that so specifically

[shrewd pivot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKXS_YA9s7E&t=190s the ow2 announcement one, sorry i didn't recall the name off the top of my head

[sand veldt]

Hopefully my GOAT will stop getting possessed

Well no

[peak escarp]

Talon isn't the type to team up though

it would be more of a free-for-all

[sand veldt]

That’d mean he no longer has cool energy powers

Hopefully my GOAT and Chernobog will turn good again

[dense garnet]

Talon teams up but it's very specific and organized. Sombra Reaper Widow and sometimes Mauga

[sand veldt]

I love how sombra cares for sigma

[dense garnet]

Yeah because Sombra is more good-aligned and is just using Talon for her own goals of exposing the Conspiracy

[shrewd pivot]

Vendetta made alliances and Emre and Freja teamed up with Vendetta's talon, is what i mean. 'teaming up' as in vendetta making alliances, and overwatch grouping up together to fight talon's invasion
i just meant talon teaming up to attack vs overwatch teaming up to attack would have been better for a big ol cinematic imo (what was covered in this comic should have been a cinematic imo) https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/vengeance-comes/

[sand veldt]

The Conspiracy?

[dense garnet]

The entity that most likely made Overwatch disband, and the entity that nearly killed Sombra and made her hide her identity

[peak escarp]

that comic was a bunch of people sitting around a table while Vendetta explains her plans

not a very exciting cinematic

[sand veldt]

It’s an entity?

[dense garnet]

He means a cinematic where we actually see Talon attack Overwatch

Which I think we'll still get

[dense garnet]

We don't know what it is

But it exists

[sand veldt]

It’s not like blizzard is lacking in money for a large scale battle cinematic is it

[shrewd pivot]

yeah, pair that with actually showing overwatch being invaded and ow members fighting and you get some "vendetta monologs in a show dont tell competency" from the comic and some "overwatch is fighting off a Talon invasion" action so you get major character action to then dramatically cut to Vendetta making plans, etc etc

[dense garnet]

It nearly killed Sombra, and Soldier 76 is also investigating it because he believes the Conspiracy is what made Overwatch disband

[sand veldt]

They run two of the most popular online games of all time

[sand veldt]

How could it make Overwatch disband?

[dense garnet]

The Conspiracy is basically a shadow government, is our theory

They want to rule the world from the shadows, and Overwatch would stand in their way

All of this is conjecture, but it makes sense

[dense garnet]

I'm not saying that I want that comic to be a cinematic either

That would be a bad idea

I just want a cinematic of OW's pov defending Gib

[peak escarp]

I actually liked Reign of Talon, I thought it was a good cinematic

[dense garnet]

It's good, I just think that a fight like Doomfist Vs. Vendetta should've lasted longer

Like

A 10-15 minute cinematic

[sand veldt]

Yall reckon vendetta will remain the main villain for a long time

[dense garnet]

But that isn't really possible

Too expensive

[peak escarp]

I don't think they've ever made a 15 minute cinematic

[dense garnet]

That's why I said it isn't possible

[sand veldt]

It’s possible

[dense garnet]

That's just the only way I would've been satisfied with a Doomfist defeat

[sand veldt]

Yall forgetting just how rich they are?

Again they run two of the most popular online games ever made

[dense garnet]

You're overestimating WoW and OW

They're well past their primes

If they were so big, they wouldn't have gotten bought out by Microsoft

[peak escarp]

Rise and Shine is the longest, at 10 minutes even

[dense garnet]

But yeah, if you're gonna mark a drastic change in the story by introducing this new arc, you had better make sure you do it right

Imo they didn't hit the landing

[peak escarp]

also the short with the least amount of action

[shrewd pivot]

i guess what i am saying is i would have loved a cut to back and forth of an evil plan and then overwatching fighting off Talon, like "heist guy explains the plan while showing the plan unfold" kind of camp lol like seen in mafia movies and spy movies.

Vendetta's writing in “Reign of Talon” felt a lot weaker in quality than in the Veangeance comes comic imo, so maybe that's my bias.

[dense garnet]

Yeah I don't think that's a good idea

It sounds sloppy tbh

"Heist guy explains the plan while showing the plan unfold" doesn't really work in this case because she never explains how she attacks Gib, she just says she already did in a one-off line. So the cutaways wouldn't even make sense

And the cutaways would distract from the rest of the cinematic

And I always thought "heist guy explains the plan while showing the plan unfold" is a meh trope

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, Vendetta is based on mafia media so i was thinking to reference the cinema around her themes is all.
The dramatic ending of the comic would still fit the goofy ending but feel more sinister, and feel less goofy than the final moment we got in “Reign of Talon”

[peak escarp]

I've only ever seen that trope done well once

[shrewd pivot]

i mean like how mafia movies do it, not comedy shows. i need to find an example probably

[dense garnet]

In the JUNKERTOWN CINEMATIC 🔥

[peak escarp]

and it's the one in Ocean's Eleven everyone tries to copy

[dense garnet]

Yeah I'm saying the mafia movies don't do it good either

[shrewd pivot]

ah fair

[dense garnet]

It's a lame and honestly lazy trope that mostly only works for comedy scenes

That's why it worked in Junkertown

[shrewd pivot]

i personally just found “Reign of Talon” pretty boring bc Vendetta's monologs are like... idk so overdramatic i can't take it seriously lol the red bike and breaking the kids nose came off extremely comical to me when it wasn't meant to be in that scene

[dense garnet]

Reign of Talon was fine. Again my only criticism of it is that Doom's defeat felt borderline embarrassing

If we go back to another cinematic like Dragons, Hanzo also got negative diffed by Genji, but Hanzo wasn't defeated in an embarrassing fashion, even despite his iconic ult got instantly countered and used to defeat him

[shrewd pivot]

i think i just have beef with Vendetta's core character trope, i find her monologs eye roll worthy when it should be "oh! intriguing!" like it should be, in the comic of her "show dont tell" making plans is more of what i would rather see. Junkerqueen does the monolog thing in such a more compelling way for the audience (hypes up) than Vendetta so idk

[dense garnet]

Doom was just utterly embarrassed by Vendetta meanwhile

[dense garnet]

I wouldn't mind if Ven was more stoic ig

But then she'd just feel like Doomfist 2

[shrewd pivot]

vendetta needed to be like. idk lean into star wars monologs or something, not mafia cinema drama and monologs

i have beef with her being a roman empire, mafia, and star wars facist imagery (which then embodies Italian fascism imagery) bc it's a very... idk cobbled together concept imo. there's a lot of other directions they could have taken her

[dense garnet]

I think it's honestly just the voice direction they gave for Vendetta's VA

[shrewd pivot]

vendetta's va does a phenominal job, probably the one thing i fully think is good for Vendetta

[sand veldt]

I’ve seen a lot of people laughing about the fact that they “killed off” doom, a successful black man, at the start of black history month

[shrewd pivot]

Vendetta's dialog doesn't take into account Vendetta's italian accent is what i am seeing-- not incorperating the pauses and wording styles of Italians well

[shrewd pivot]

i could make a very cheeky joke about star wars writing but i shall not

cough writers sloppily centering on the op-powers white woman character's story and thus shafting the black man character's story cough

[sand veldt]

We could’ve had an ex stormtrooper Jedi…

Instead we got Kathleen’s self insert number 3

[shrewd pivot]

would have been GOATED.

Anyways, i would have loved vendetta to be a campy opera reference by being a space opera reference (star wars) but it seems overwatch is taking the "visuals of power" out of context from opera (aka, its shown as horror, not aura farming) which makes things a bit messy imo

[sand veldt]

Overwatch does have great examples of well written female characters though

Mercy comes to mind

Sombra

[shrewd pivot]

aha, mercy is perhaps the one character i think is not well written, between her "morally grey actions but narratively seen as pure actions" and blunders of romance arcs, i think mercy could have been handled better.

So far, Freja is actually a very refereshing anti-villain (someone who does bad things but thinks they are the hero)

i really like sombra a lot, her lore is great i love the eye conspiracy and Sombra's character interactions
moira is a great villainess

and Symmetra means a lot to me, autistic rep, and Symmetra is portrayed as very elegant which is positive for autistic rep. Even if Symmettra isn't necessarily a "pure good guy" it's nice autistic rep to have her be elegant and i really enjoy her story with Vishkar personally

and Domina also will probably be very fun

[dense garnet]

Mei
Moira
Freja

Moira imo is the best written woman in OW

[shrewd pivot]

yeah, hilariously chu (i think? or atleast her writer) doesn't see moira as an evil villain tho

[dense garnet]

Sym asks Lucio if he has any information for Rio so that she can pass it to the board and he says "yeah, stay out of our city" like she wants to help so bad

[shrewd pivot]

to me, even if Moira is intending to cure disease, her methods are so outrageously evil villain it baffles me to not view moira as an evil villain

[dense garnet]

Moira is definitely morally dubious, but she wants to basically invent immortality

For the better of the world

She just doesn't care what it takes to do that

Even going as far as using herself as a test subject

[toxic flax]

moira my goat mentioned

[shrewd pivot]

yeah, and i appreciate they chose the irish banshee malevolent fae to essentially be a eugenics evil villain, bc that's kind of what moira is. could have been very touchy if they used a different background for moira imo. Also, she is willing to torture animals, people, even test on herself to get her goals. "ends justify the means" is very much villainous behavior in this instance, and Moira's mutated arm being a ticking clock moira has to cure is her narrative punishment for such crimes (very fun writing)

[viral pilot]

So do we think Emre is being controlled by Hammond? Emre's ult voice sounds similar to Wrecking Balls ai voice or whatever. Could be a ratatouille situation js

[dense garnet]

I can't tell if this is a joke lmao

[shrewd pivot]

LOL now that's the best crackpot theory i've heard. (no malice intended btw)

the eye conspiracy that Sombra ran from is what is influencing Emre it seems, and the chernobog god ai of global security is most likely what the eye conspiracy is using, if not the eye conspiracy straight up being chernobog god ai itself.

[dense garnet]

I'm sure we're getting more Emre lore when we get around to the Grand Mesa raid, since he's partaking in that op

Emre fans getting immediately fed

Meanwhile Mizuki fans have to wait, and Domina even longer

And even LONGER for JPC

[viral pilot]

Oh I'm unfamiliar with chernobog. I kinda just wanted Hamster to take control of Talon through Emre and throw Vendetta out the window

[shrewd pivot]

yeah, as Dr pointed out a few days ago iirc, the serum for super soldiers program (soldier76, etc) is probably what they are trying to steal from grand mesa

[dense garnet]

Imagine if Mauga gets a new perk ingame called "super soldier serum"

[shrewd pivot]

in one universe, this did happen dear stranger haha

but seriously, I think hammond might be involved with the junkers vs mauga set up, so maybe you might get some new hammond lore then :)

[shrewd pivot]

light work no reaction

[viral pilot]

Cool 😎

[dense garnet]

Hampter is busy being JQ's lapdog

[shrewd pivot]

i think you mean exceptionally badass mammal champion /j

[viral pilot]

True

[dense garnet]

Moira says "I'll ensure you're not the last of your kind" when eliminating Illari

What does she know

[shrewd pivot]

oasis was getting involved with inti warrior tech, as indicated by the map. Moira works at oasis

[dense garnet]

Yeah, Sombra blew it all up iirc

[shrewd pivot]

Sombra atleast said she deleted the info

i imagine Sombra probably lied and is saving a personal backup of the info haha

[dense garnet]

I always thought Moira Vs. Illari would be a neat idea

[shrewd pivot]

certainly is. very scary tho poor illari

[viral pilot]

Do you get this info from the comics?

[dense garnet]

I think that if they start focusing on the conspiracy again, the main trio would be Soldier, Sombra, and Illari as the centerpoint

Those 3 and Emre are most closely tied to the conspiracy

[shrewd pivot]

which info?

[dense garnet]

Sombra's deleting of the Inti tech files comes from a novel

Where Soldier, Sombra, and Illari interact

[viral pilot]

Oh okay

[dense garnet]

Soldier also had new ingame dialogue for Sombra talking about them now being partners

Which theoretically makes sense

[shrewd pivot]

Soldier76 for sure bc he wants to find out why overwatch hq was taken down. Sombra for sure bc she wants to know who pulls the strings in eye conspiracy so she can pull the strings herself. If the eye conspiracy was in anyway involved with illari's explosion accident, Illari for sure will be involved to avenge her people.

[dense garnet]

I have a crackpot theory

What if Moira is already involved with the conspiracy

[viral pilot]

I'll have to look into the novels as I was unaware of their existence

[dense garnet]

I think the latest novel explains how Juno got affiliated with Overwatch

Since she's officially with OW at Gib

It's called Signs of Life I wanna say?

[viral pilot]

What's left of gib anyway

[toxic flax]

im sorry if im media illiterate but like isnt moira like not supposed to be a eugenicist? while its widely agreed she is an evil person, the whole point of her character is essentially caring more about the result of her work rather than the process. yes, she may be an ethically disagreeable character, but i dont think shes a eugenicist

i could be wrong tho

[dense garnet]

I wanna run a gib game with everyone on the team being a Talon member lmao

Domina, Freja, Emre, Moira, Mizuki

[shrewd pivot]

it's more so the definition of eugenics, and the crimes associated with it. her writer may have not intended for moira to be one(considering moira's writer asserts moira is not an 'evil villain'), but her actions and "ends justify the means" and the fact her genetics experiments don't just cure but give superpowers (aka, not simply fixing genetic disease, but creating super genes) does place her into "eugenics territory"

[toxic flax]

i see

interesting

thank you

[shrewd pivot]

also, Doomfist is an evil villain philosophy of "social Darwinism" which logic asserts it's moral to force people into survival of the fittest situations (aka not help 'the weak', the strong should rule 'the weak') all while Doomfist 'uplifts excelence' as seen in how he funded Efi, which is another form of genetic superiority evil villain philosophy. Doomfist wants humanity to improve, but he is going about it in a very evil way

and vendetta is very overtly "bloodline superiority" evil villain because she thinks she deserves power because she was born into a certain family line for inheritance, vendetta views others as servants beneath her, with her above everyone else.
Moira fits right in with that kind of bleak villainous philosophies, especially alongside doomfist

[viral pilot]

Do you think Moira will support Vendetta as leader?

[shrewd pivot]

Moira just follows whoever will fund her experiments the most, so if Vendetta pays, Moira will follow

[viral pilot]

Gotcha

[toxic flax]

so essentially moira is a sugar baby

ill add that to my list of commonalities

[dense garnet]

Yeah Moira has no true affiliation other than the cash

She's even worse than Freja with it

[elfin bane]

did they change arans face yet

didn’t the guy say the would when the update dropped

[dense garnet]

No, most likely at the end of season 1

[elfin bane]

oh ok

[viral pilot]

Moira has to have her rabbits

To experiment

I mean pet

[dense garnet]

"How could you do that to those poor bunny rabbits!?"

"Easily."

[viral pilot]

😭

[shrewd pivot]

notably, a national symbol of ireland is the irish hare.

hares are different from rabbits ofc but it's a fun bit of camp there to have moira experimenting on a national symbol of sorts

[viral pilot]

You're quite knowledgeable

[shrewd pivot]

the tism and art/worldbuilding passion leads me to many esoteric funfacts

[viral pilot]

😅

Random, but one of my favorite interactions:
Mercy: How are you funding your crimes against humanity these days?
Moira: My old friends, "innovation" and "imagination". A shame you've never met them.

[shrewd pivot]

yeah moira's beef with mercy is great in lore, plus moira's va does such a good job with the voice acting

[toxic flax]

isnt that the one where mercy mentions the hippocratic oath or am i mistaken

[viral pilot]

I laugh every time I hear it

Different interaction, I think

[hollow oar]

emre lore is so peak

i need an animatic for that raid thing emre's participating in to drop ASAP

[toxic flax]

could a fish thats never seen the surface know its underwater??? 🤔🤔🤔

[dense garnet]

Probably in season 2 with the new hero

Also

Mizuki straight up confirmed that Toshiro created the Storm Bow

Even called it one of his masterpieces

So yeah he's not just a "swordsmith"

[hollow oar]

i dont think fish have the mental capacity to comprehend the concept of underwater

they just know being able to breathe (underwater), and not being able to breathe (surface)

[toxic flax]

i was quoting siebren de kuiper but thank you!! 😋😋

[hollow oar]

oh lmfao

[shrewd pivot]

Actually. idk if this was ever explained but im a bit confused, if anyone could answer:

in ow2 the omnic crisis started 28 years ago and ended 26 years ago.

Tracer is stated as 28 in ow2. Tracer had two years of time lost issues iirc. so either in ow2 Tracer is:
A) actually 26 in ow2 + 2 years time lost thus 28,
or B) 30 years with a 2 year time lost, thus 28.
so we can move 2 years bc it's unclear atm

we know tracer confirmed timelines exist in overwatch, and possibly tracer isn't from this specific timeline.

Did tracer fly the plane that had the time accident at 18 years of age? Was tracer born during the crisis? bc as is, 28(omni crisis start date)-18(military age)= 10, and the venice incident occurred 10 years ago, meaning Tracer would have been 18 when the venice incident occured.

TLDR; do we know how old tracer was when tracer's slipstream time accident occurred?

[viral pilot]

Ugh. There it goes.

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-hat-smol-gif-16247795867102792011

[shrewd pivot]

hello @edgy meadow idk what the gif means but i hope everything is ok? /genuine

[toxic flax]

awww kitty

[viral pilot]

Hard to say with how wack the continuity is. You can apparently be a pilot at the age of 16 in the UK tho so there's a few years there when it could've happened

[shrewd pivot]

yeah that's fair.
and we don't know if the ow2 "Tracer is 28" is counting her 2 years of being time lost or not iirc.
so it's 30-18(military)= 12, so 2 years of potential overwatch service, or 28-18(military)=10, less than a year of overwatch service before the big lawsuits started against og overwatch for the blackwatch reveal.
OR
30-16(pilot age)= 14 so 4 years of overwatch service, or 28-16(pilot age)=12 so 2 years of overwatch service

It's hard to know when her time accident actually occured in lore, i was curious if anyone knew ballpark how long tracer had been in og overwatch as a recruit

[edgy meadow]

im good, i just like posting cats for viewing pleasure and occassionally as a means of expression

i appreciate the concern lol

[viral pilot]

Yes idk but I know she was the youngest to join overwatch except idk how old these newer characters like wuyang are

So might not be true anymore

[shrewd pivot]

hm, wasn't Tracer shown involved in the polynesian league missions too bc of Freja's lore? It's really hard to pinpoint a time for her

[edgy meadow]

to actually provide a topic of conversation

on the topic of tracer

she has been unusually except from character interactions and events this season

excempt*

[dense garnet]

Wuyang is 19

Anran is 21 iirc

[viral pilot]

Oh wow

[dense garnet]

Juno's also 19

They're the 2 youngest currently

[toxic flax]

illari is also 19 right

[shrewd pivot]

yeah Juno and Wuyang are 19

I think with Emre being 44 that would make him 18/19 in the military to impress overwatch to joining overwatch?

[dense garnet]

Illari too yes

Actually Illari might be 18?

[shrewd pivot]

Illari is 18

Illari isn't officially a member of overwatch tho iirc

[toxic flax]

how old is jetpack cat

[dense garnet]

Unknown

JPC has no real lore yet

[shrewd pivot]

a beast....

[viral pilot]

Dang I had no idea all of these characters are so young lol

[dense garnet]

Kiriko is 21

Mizuki is 22

[shrewd pivot]

yeah lol i reccomend looking at the bios on the website

[toxic flax]

its not THAT young

maybe for serving a militia yeah

but in general theyre all over 18

[dense garnet]

Pharah is older than Zarya, if you can believe it

[viral pilot]

Yeah that's what I mean

[shrewd pivot]

oh! cav made an update. Note: all awakened omnics (Zenyatta, Ramattra, and Bastion) had the awakening around 26ish(atleast, 28-26) years ago, the birthday is build date not awakened date

[viral pilot]

That's crazy

[dense garnet]

Depending on how long the Null Sector invasion lasted, they might be a year older now

Not the new additions but still

[viral pilot]

I wouldn't have thought there was a 10 year gap between Emre and Freja either

[shrewd pivot]

actually! I made a timeline and guesstimated based on ram build date, junkrat leap year birthday, and an echo post iirc,

it's probably near mid year currently in lore. we don't know how long Ramattra's null sector invasion took place but i think they would have updated the ages in bios if multiple years had passed.

My guess tho, is that the vendetta arc will now push the timeline forward

[toxic flax]

theoretically could the null sector omnics get an awakening

[dense garnet]

My theory is that one of the 5 new heroes this year will be an awakened Null Sector omnic

[silent linden]

How old is Genji and kiriko

[dense garnet]

Kiriko is 21 and Genji is around 35 or something

[shrewd pivot]

there's no recreation of the awakening atm, but if the null sector robots had the right components to house an awakening, yes

[silent linden]

How are they childhood friend then

[dense garnet]

Kiriko was training with the brothers at 4 years old when they were 20 and 23 respectively

[silent linden]

[dense garnet]

Kiriko was 7 when Genji was killed by Hanzo presumably

[shrewd pivot]

eyup. welcome to the club haha
Kiriko is 21 and Genji is 37

[toxic flax]

that sounds cute actually

[dense garnet]

They were childhood friends moreso because her mom decided to bring Kiriko to her workplace lol, and Kiriko's family are friends with the Shimadas. Kiriko was more like a baby sister to them

[viral pilot]

I actually saw a theory that the Anubis AI isnt actually dead and it's what is taking over Emre. It's interesting but disagrees with my personal theory that Hamster is the evil mastermind 🤷

[dense garnet]

Technically none of the AI's are dead

Just deactivated. And Anubis did wake back up

[edgy meadow]

its more likely that its a differen god ai, chernobog, given we know that it speaks finnish

[dense garnet]

Anubis tried to take control of an omnic but failed

[viral pilot]

Ah

[edgy meadow]

also chernobog is mentioned in his website page

[dense garnet]

So Anubis is awake, or did reawake at some point

And Chernobog ofc is reactivated

I'm still happy we have confirmation that Kiriko's dad made Hanzo's bow

Mizuki was a blessing for the Shimada loreheads

[viral pilot]

Has there been a lot of lore released about Mizuki other than having conflicted affiliations?

[dense garnet]

We know pretty much his whole backstory

[viral pilot]

Oh okay nvm I read it

[dense garnet]

His mom died when he was still a baby, his dad died when he turned 9, and he got taken in by the Hashimoto because his dad had a lot of debt to pay off to them and he's being made to work to pay off that debt. He believes his entire bloodline is cursed and he's incredibly superstitious

[young dragon]

He’s basically a Fukuokan city kid from an impoverished background who’s a lot more sensitive than his poser nonchalant attitude gives off. Reminds me of some of my Japanese students. Particularly with how he speaks.

[shrewd pivot]

im going to look into the new hero birthdays, but for those curious, vendetta's birthday falls on a Roman wolf holiday on Feb 15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupercalia

[young dragon]

He’s a lot less polite and a lot more childish than the other Japanese characters. But he’s very much a teen trying to act cool.

[edgy meadow]

nice

[toxic flax]

thats awfully close to my birthday

[shrewd pivot]

Also i am.... just going to imagine tracer in ow2 30 years ago was born, that she joined overwatch at 18, had her accident at 18 and then two years of time loss, and thus that's why she is listed as 28 years old in overwatch 2 atm.

Tracer's body stopped aging when her slipstream time accident happened so i would like to think they haven't been making fanservice skins of a less than 18 year old body. Tracer's mind surely has aged bc of life experience so she's not mentally 18 anymore ofc but... yeah. i don't like the implication of Tracer being 16 when her body stopped aging.

This leaves her with around 2 years of og overwatch service after her accident which would make sense

[viral pilot]

Red flag indeed

Pharah is closest to my birthday (4/20)

Shame I think she's dull

[toxic flax]

420 hehshehehehhshehehs

[shrewd pivot]

I don't see anything for Mizuki's birthday of april 9, but i have a feeling maybe it might be Japanese number word play: here is the wiki explaining this kind of pun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_wordplay
if anyone knows japanese maybe they could clear it up lol

[viral pilot]

Lol yeahhhh

[shrewd pivot]

"44 can be read as "yo-yo" and is thus a common slang term in the international competitive yo-yo community, which has a strong Japanese presence."

April 4th for Mizuki (as well as 44 being an unlucky number of death) would have fit so well, dang lol

April 9th is Mizuki's bday

[edgy meadow]

is there a fellow april 1ster in the roster

[shrewd pivot]

nope

[peak escarp]

the most important birthday is Junkrat's

[edgy meadow]

tragic

[shrewd pivot]

this image is in month order btw! cavalry made this updated bday chart

[shrewd pivot]

hey do we know how old tracer was when her slipstream time accident occured? or do we know how many years tracer served in og overwatch? im unsure so i thought to ask

[peak escarp]

her first field mission was the King's Row Uprising 10 years ago

it took a while for the doctors to clear her for active duty, and she was lost in time for months after the accident

so working backwards, she was probably 17-18 when she joined the flight program (RAF allows teens to join at 16 with parental permission)

[shrewd pivot]

okay ty for the info!

hmmm I will assume they wouldn't write tracer's body to stop aging at 16 or 17 since there's fanservice skins of tracer in game(she is mentally older than 18 ofc rn, but yeah i will assume 18 year old body), so 18 is probably the right age then for her accident.

Ig that just leaves whether "Tracer is 28 in ow2" includes her time lost months, or does not include her time lost months.

it's hard to piece together a timeline, i honestly wish they would atleast have a timeline on the website one day (no need for exact years, but chronologically order events would be nice)

[edgy meadow]

i mean this in the best way possible, i dont think this was ever a conversation or topic of concern in their writer's team to begin with

[shrewd pivot]

fair but I would like to hope tracer isn't going to be retconned to have the body of a 16 year old lmafo, so i will assume 18

[edgy meadow]

if the writers were perverts who wanted tracer to have the body of a 17 year old i would imagine they wouldnt be so subtle and round-about it

[peak escarp]

the only official timeline we were given was the one Athena sends to Winston in the files of the Story Mission tab

[edgy meadow]

until that happens, im willing to default to just agreeing that itsn ot the case

[peak escarp]

why would Tracer have the body of an 18 year old?

she didn't stop aging

[shrewd pivot]

her time accident said it made tracer stop aging iirc?

in de:classified

[peak escarp]

she just didn't age for the 2 years she was unanchored from time

between her accident and when Winston made the chronal accelerator

let me see if I can find it

[wise grotto]

So she’s just. 26 physically

[shrewd pivot]

OHHH fr? mbmb okay let me reread then

i could have sworn it said she stopped aging, so apologies then im probably misremembering the exacts of that statement in context

if she stopped aging ONLY during the time lost issue, then she would be born 30 years ago but technically 28 bioage in ow2? or is it that she was born 28 years ago and is 26 bio age?

[peak escarp]

and relevant to my statement about joining the RAF with parent's permission...

[peak escarp]

this part is unclear - we don't have Word of God clarification like we do for Mei because this was written after Chu was no longer lead writer

[shrewd pivot]

ah ok

okay thank GOODNESS i misremembered this then, tysm for the clarification and correction

i /had/ thought tracer was 26-28 but then i misremembered the text and got very very confused

[peak escarp]

also since nobody asked - the reason Junkrat's birthday is the most important is because he was born on a leap year, meaning the present day of Overwatch must be a year that is 27 years after a leap year

which narrows down which year Overwatch takes place in

my bet is still 2079

[shrewd pivot]

yeah my narrowing has an educated guess of ow1 being 2077 and ow2 being 2079

[viral pilot]

Lol junkrat would be born on a leap year

[peak escarp]

I like when others independantly come to the same answer I did

it means the facts are consistent enough to follow

[shrewd pivot]

Also Anran's birthday lmafo "But the significance of August 8th doesn't stop there. It's also designated as "National Fitness Day" (全民健身日). This initiative, approved by the State Council, was launched in 2009 to commemorate the successful hosting of the Beijing Olympics and to encourage widespread participation in sports and fitness activities."

[peak escarp]

lol

[shrewd pivot]

Anran being an olympic athlete vs physical therapist wuyang was an anology i made prior, this is too real overwatch 😭 Poor wuyang man....

[peak escarp]

people got so mad when the birthdays were revealed

they had strong opinions on what astrological sign each hero would be and most of them don't match expectations

Blizz should reveal their blood types too so we can get everyone else mad too

[viral pilot]

Were there specific reasons for each character's birthday?

[peak escarp]

none officially, but there are some interesting coincidences

[shrewd pivot]

well, if ow2 is 2079, Ramattra is a metal ram on chinese zodiac AND an aries on western zodiac so i take that as a hilarious win just for puns

[peak escarp]

it's surprising that in a cast of 50 characters, nobody shares a birthday

that's statistically unlikely

[shrewd pivot]

it's def for relatability of "oh this is near my birthday!" or a meme day reason (like junkrat leap year), if people didn't know that statistic, it's easy to overlook

[viral pilot]

Would open the door for hilarious interactions tho

Junkrat sharing a bday with anyone

[peak escarp]

also, might be a bit of a challenge to program, but they should have special voice lines for each hero's birthday, maybe just having another hero wish them happy birthday

my birthday is 8 days after Widowmaker and 7 days before Zarya

and I'm the same age as Baptiste

[shrewd pivot]

that would be a very cute little bit to add to the hero gallery, like a birthday icon in the corner of the hero profile and a special voice line in matches maybe

[peak escarp]

tbh birthday voicelines should be doable, considering that back in OW Classic they had Valentines/White Day voice lines that played on Feb 14/Mar 14 respectively

so the technology is there

[shrewd pivot]

nanomachines, son! that sounds like a really fun idea that would be great to add

[peak escarp]

I hate that meme

[shrewd pivot]

oh im not aware of the context, pardon if it was something bad /genuine
i was just joking about the technology being there already in a hyped way bc i like the idea you presented

[peak escarp]

no it's just that people unironically use that meme to answer a lot of tech-related Overwatch questions

like "why can Reaper turn into smoke" and "how does Mercy revive people"

[shrewd pivot]

ohhh ok. it's a cheeky reply, yeah, i can see how that gets old fast, pardon

[peak escarp]

people still think that Reaper uses nanomachines

nanomachines/nanites weren't even introduced into Overwatch lore until Ramattra

[viral pilot]

Sharing a bday with Bruce Lee is pretty cool

[peak escarp]

Bruce Lee, Jimi Hendrix and Bill Nye (the Science Guy)