lore-discussion

[torpid nest]

Compares to her cadet oxton from OW1

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra hates Anubis god ai because anubis oppressed omnics.
If Chernobog god ai oppresses omnics, Ramattra will hate Chernobog.

The Iris is an unknown but it can be inferred Aurora 'ascended' from individual to something akin to god ai as the Iris? But the Iris is still an unknown in canon. The Iris does not seem malevolent so I don't think Ramattra would hate the Iris.

[broken eagle]

Real

[shrewd pivot]

https://x.com/SoftlyUwUs/status/2021743743255318781?s=20

Ohhhh drama

🦉Allie 🍉 (@SoftlyUwUs)

Interaction with Ramattra and Vendetta

▶ Play video

X · Feb 12, 2026, 12:30 AM

Ramattra is not willing to save humanity from itself.

But I feel like Vendetta may not just... leave Nullsector alone forever

[brittle sky]

I mean it seems like world conquering belligerency is kinda her default.

Like... Nevermind she would be miserable running the actual administrative apparatus of any status

[misty walrus]

quiero pene

[lavish osprey]

That's what Maximilian and Domina are for.

Vendetta just wants the power and throne.

Besides after Earth she can conquer Mars

And the Galaxy

[humble escarp]

why does emres ult feel and look so similar to illaris

[lavish osprey]

Only so many ways to fly and shoot?

[wise blaze]

I see no one beating Vendetta sadly, but I also don’t want to see Ramattra lose 😭

[dense garnet]

Apparently they did retcon that Kiriko was training with Genji and Hanzo when they were older and them looking young in Kiriko's origin story video was an error

Just from what I've heard

So they're not changing Kiriko's age, they're just changing the time period when Kiriko was training with them

[young dragon]

I'm fine with that. She's noticably younger than them and it makes sense considering her mom trained all 3.

[fresh fiber]

Ram is smart. I don't see him ever trying to pick a fight with Talon. And if Talon tries to start something with Null Sector, it'll just be a repeat of the Omnic Crisis

[worthy rose]

Hey new lore! Unedited screenshot of ALL blackwatch members.

Thoughts?

[visual axle]

Emre is so cool omg

[carmine wing]

his ult voiceline is tuff

[fossil wren]

There isnt a real reason right now, but some theorize that the conspiracy stole some of the technology of the Inti warriors since they are likely responsible for the Illari incident

[shrewd pivot]

Vendetta would indeed be poking a sleeping polar bear if Talon tried attacking Nullsector

[young dragon]

Canon. Once the Petras act made the files unredacted, the true atrocity of what happened in Venice could not be surpressed any longer.

[worthy rose]

I feel like they hid the one of the far right for a reason...maybe that one took out the father of vendetta..

[young dragon]

What? Are you joking? We have the information now.

Fio was just a scapegoat. That thing was the real getaway driver. And they crushed so many people when they landed for pickup.

[humble escarp]

likely responsible based on what

[torpid nest]

just swpaped ot talon

overwtach os getting tis but kicked

[edgy meadow]

does anyone have a video with all the new interactions

i cant find a comprehensive one

[young dragon]

Unsurprising. I'm team Overwatch, but team Talon has... 1) Better rewards, 2) a more popular character (despite being WEEKS old), 3) A better trailer.

[bold fern]

how much chinchillas to make 1 coat

[past copper]

Not hoping for it, but if a Disney villains collab should happen

Domina is your Cruella

[azure flint]

that lucio interaction funny asf

[bold fern]

lucio dosent want to deal with her bs

[azure flint]

whats ur favorite animal

[bold fern]

how many chinchillas to make a coat

math question ahh

[young dragon]

That’s pretty damn great.

[bold fern]

ok wtf chinchillas are actually big

we learn something new everyday

[severe cove]

Hey so what's the deal with Emre?

What is he?

The wiki calls him a cyborg but I'm not buying that

I think the real Emre is dead and this is some sort of weird fucked up AI impersonating him

[bold fern]

i think hes still part of himself

hes been trying to fight over his control

after his ult he tries to remember his name

[severe cove]

Like a virus infected his systems?

I guess that explains the Echo voicelines

[azure flint]

nah its real emre

[bold fern]

"emre, my name is emre."

[severe cove]

But if that's the case I feel like it should be able to jump to other cyborg heroes

[azure flint]

hes just being controlled by some weird ai

[bold fern]

"get out of my head!"

hes in half control basically

[severe cove]

I see

[bold fern]

"What's even left of me?"

[severe cove]

Interesting

Wait he's literally halo

Two intelligences in the same head

[bold fern]

plus he still cares about freja

[severe cove]

Bro is Master Chief and Cortana

[bold fern]

idk if they are lovers or just good friends but he still remembers and cherishes her

[severe cove]

I can't wait to get my hands on him he seems so cool

[bold fern]

hes balanced

[severe cove]

Like Soldier was just the COD guy and Sojourn was hot but I didn't care much for her gameplay but Emre looks so fun to play

[young dragon]

He’s a heroic idealist who pushed back against Overwatch’s unethical decisions multiple times. To the point he resigned because he figured he can do good on his own.

And then he disappeared for years. We don’t how.

He then recently in the past several years began working for Talon, but only picked certain assignments, was an absolute killing machine, and then disappeared randomly during the for long stretches of time, before showing back up to make sure the mission is done.

Essentially, he’s a digitally enhanced Manchurian agent who has no free will and has been enslaved by whatever is behind the same Conspiracy that drove Sombre to change her identify.

[bold fern]

@severe cove more funny interactions if ur interested

[severe cove]

WHIPPERSNAPPER 😭

[severe cove]

Whoa. Okay... That's a lot to take in

[round bramble]

Kinda weird how Max said Vendetta needed allies is she hoped to beat Doomfist only for her to throttle Doomfist with the power of plot armour

[young dragon]

Picture a much darker take on Sigma. Sigma went insane and isn’t fully in control of his mind. Emre knows he’s not in control of himself, hasn’t been for years, is deeply concerned by it, and if he tries to resist he outright loses his free will temporarily as he’s literally overriden by…something.

[wise grotto]

Overthrowing someone isn’t only beating them it’s also taking over the organization

[severe cove]

But... She didn't throttle him tho? He made her look like a joke for the first half of the fight, underestimated her, and lost to her second wind

He kneed her so hard in the stomach she went FLYING

[round bramble]

Doom turned into a bumbling moron after that

To the point of lunging at Vendetta like a lion even though his arm got cut off

[severe cove]

I will say the choreography could've been a bit better

But we just got the old cinematic style back

So at this point I'm just happy Overwatch is back

[round bramble]

I guess in lore she did really outsmart him, though it doesn't come off as that during the cinematic

[severe cove]

DW it'll be insane character development for Doom

[round bramble]

I'm sure it will

[wise grotto]

I wonder how many people are capable of being fully normal when there arms are cut off and not irrational

[severe cove]

Im also very happy that Talon feels like a genuine threat now

[wise grotto]

Like
Before that specific part is the part he was weird

Post Arm being cut off it makes sense he’s irrational NOW

[fossil wren]

What happened to the Inti warriors is very similar to the mysterious explosion in Zurich Overwatch HQ

[round bramble]

Probably rational enough to not lunge at your heavily armed attacker

[severe cove]

The fight should've been longer

Way more destructive

[wise grotto]

I seriously doubt that a person would be rational after that
Like
Reasonable speaking you also have to look at it with she was gonna just properly execute him for sure if he didn’t do SOMETHING

[round bramble]

I guess it could've been a feint? That kinda feels like cope tho and Vendetta was just as likely to cut him in half

[round bramble]

Actually yeah good point, any other move would've likely been fatal

[wise grotto]

Yep
He pretty much had to go as fast and soon as possible whike in pain from a severed arm

Genuinely that was the best case in that exact moment for his outcome

[severe cove]

I think we can all agree that Blizzard was trying with this cinematic but either due to time or budget they just couldn't afford it

[round bramble]

Sounds about right

[severe cove]

So it does kinda fall on us to fill in the blanks

To make as much sense out of this as we can

They've given us the tools

[peak escarp]

the arm that was cut was cybernetic arm

[young dragon]

It’s a good cinematic and it’s fantastic to see that style again considering how expensive and time consuming it is.

Issue is it’s very fast-paced because there’s a lot of information packed into it at once. The Fight is only a few minutes at most.

And importantly, Maritza wants to savor the experience. It’s two people who care about power for very different reasons.

[wise grotto]

Pretty sure there’s fake nerves in most of these else these characters with cybernetics would have different issues and doom would have barelt reacted at all

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-licking-paws-black-cute-gif-18705814

i dont know why its so insane for people to believe that sometimes you just lose because you underestimate someone

doomfist clearly saw vendetta as an arrogant child even tho she is a very proven warrior

people make dumb mistakes because of ego, and doomfist has an ego

not to the same level of pride a vendetta, but still an ego

i think thats perfectly reasonable

i think the actual reason it stings for a lot of people is that vendetta was the newest hero at the time and so players havent really got to get used to her being around, while doomfist has been around since like year 1 of or so of overwatch

doomfist isnt some undefeatable super-saiyan demi-god warrior, he's just a really skilled warrior who's still human and just fucked up underestimating a foe

hell thats literally how the fight scene starts, he doesnt even wanna talk about vendetta but he gets into the conference because reaper and sombra are trying to warn him that talon is in fucking danger

[glad osprey]

So he can't see vendetta in the dark and after she comes to light she manages to land 2 strikes on doomfist like nothing because he was just standing up, same guy who grabbed tracer

[tough egret]

Just opened ow rn
Saw the cinematic

Pleaaaaaseeeee

Just make an animated series already

[glad osprey]

So true

[tough egret]

[peak escarp]

you gonna pay for it?

[tough egret]

Kickstarter

[acoustic ice]

so emre is turkish and the ai controlling him is finnish?

[peak escarp]

yes

[edgy meadow]

emre is turkish, yes. The nature of whatever controls him is still not certain but its likely the finnish God AI

[tough egret]

Oof

The "another life" lore video

I can see why some people were complaining
Just two images, no animation

[edgy meadow]

its a short story

they just uploaded a video version read by the voice actors

theyve done comics and short stories since all the way back in ow1

[glad osprey]

Anubis comeback 😱

[edgy meadow]

not anubis specifically, but ye likely something very simillar in scale and power

we already know theres a dormant god AI in finland named Chernobog

and its name is dropped in the cypher thats on Emre's page in the overwatch website

[acoustic ice]

chernobog... chernobyl?

[peak escarp]

I think the names have the same root, but they're not related

[acoustic ice]

chernobyl map leaked

[gusty cloak]

When ana sleeps jetpack cat, the cat lays on the ground still clawing the air, awake. Wild throw here, but what if the jetpack itself is sentient like echo and is the one that's slept? So that's why the cat stays awake? We don't know anything else about her so this might be important

[peak escarp]

something similar happens when you sleep D.Va

you can see her jiggling the controls

[acoustic ice]

that begs the question
what does her sleep dart consist of
both an emp and tranquilizer to deal with both machine and flesh?

[wise grotto]

Gameplay wise it’s just for the sake of consistency it doesn’t actually make a robot sleep

[peak escarp]

same reason her biotic darts and grenade still work on robots

[young dragon]

“I’ll be fine. I’ve already gotten a few offers for global security.” -Emre

Chernobog was the Finish-based god program responsible for global security. Before it was shut down, it printed hundreds of pages of instructions to help humanity do its job.

I suppose it’s possible the Conspiracy is still following those instructions. And Emre’s ultimate is done in Finnish rather than Turkish.

Very interesting.

[fresh fiber]

That makes sense. ANUBIS definitely didn't work alone in the Omnic Crisis, and the Omnics were noted specifically to counter and overwhelm human forces with almost perfect precision. Could it be that CHERNOBOG turned coat, then after the Crisis laid low so it wasn't imprisoned?

[peak escarp]

according to Declassified Chernobog and all the other god programs were shut down once they discovered that Anubis was behind the crisis

Chernobog's final words were "I understand. I'm sorry."

[fresh fiber]

Well that's obviously a lie because ANUBIS has tried to break out before

[peak escarp]

Anubis wasn't shut down

it was quarantined

[fresh fiber]

That's weird

[peak escarp]

clearly a bad idea

[fresh fiber]

You'd think you'd shut down the omnicidal meglomaniacal AI

[peak escarp]

the UN thought they could learn something from it

[fresh fiber]

ANUBIS probably reactivated some of the God programs then

The Gwishin in Korea aren't some random incident. Only a God program, or at least some approximation of one can organize something like that

[fresh fiber]

Classic fucking UN lol

ANUBIS is the spark, but it isn't pulling the strings

[young dragon]

What’s interesting about Override protocol is that it uses the word “We.”

[fresh fiber]

Where again?

[young dragon]

Basically, when Override Protocol is activated, whatever is controlling Emre is the dominant force. Lines include:

Hostile purged.
Our gaze is endless. ⭐
Target destroyed.
Threat eliminated.
We see all.
(Turkish: You will see what we've become.)

[fresh fiber]

Insee

I see*

Either way, Vendetta coming to power and entering open war with Overwatch assists the original goals of ANUBIS. It learned that humanity together is too much, but if humanity killed each other, then it could take advantage of the rot and finish what it started two decades prior.

Maybe that's why Doom was so careful. He probably figured out that ANUBIS was still pulling strings, and even an anarchist like Doom understands that no evolution can come from total annihilation like from ANUBIS.

[young dragon]

Possibly. Vendetta’s doomed though. She’ll win in the short and medium term. And then she’ll start losing just like her predecessor.

She’s likely going to win this event though. Especially round one. And I say that as someone on Team Overwatch.

[peak escarp]

Anubis has been in quarantine since the end of the Crisis - it did attempt to break out recently, but Pharah's Helix team put it back in its cage

[young dragon]

Shame too. That Echo skin looks far better with OW colors. Curious as to how the events ending will impact the story.

[young dragon]

Indeed. And it was horrifying enough that her own omnic squad mate killed themselves when they realized they were being taken over.*

[fresh fiber]

I don't trust Helix. They can barely kill a fat fucking Junker, how can they possibly hold ANUBIS? How can you be sure that ANUBIS didn't reactivate other God Programs before being contained?

[young dragon]

Helix is seemingly quite competent overall. But has also clearly been infiltrated by Talon.

[fresh fiber]

And Talon introduces rot and incompetence

[young dragon]

Reaper wrecked many of their members while breaking out Sigma and Doomfist.

[peak escarp]

if Helix was infiltrated by Talon they wouldn't need to plan a heist on Watchpoint: Grand Mesa

[young dragon]

No. It’s deeper than that.

[peak escarp]

they'd just get their agents to go in

[fresh fiber]

And in any case, competence isn't enough, you gotta have that shit locked down 100%. That ANUBIS was able to find any way to escape is a telling failure

I don't like Helix to begin with because they're a bunch of arseholes. But letting a fucking omnicidal giga-AI responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people off its leash is a staggering lapse in competence.

[peak escarp]

Anubis failed anyway

it couldn't break free

and omnics would rather die than be controlled by it again

[young dragon]

Basically over the past few years Talon’s been a good deconstruction of organizations like The League of Doom. There are many groups of villains throughout fiction.

From TVTropes:

While the diversity of Talon's membership is its greatest strength, it is also its greatest weakness. Despite being a decentralized group full of members from various backgrounds and cultures, each of its main powerhhouses who lead its council have completely different ideas in mind for abiding by the organization's creed of "bettering the world through conflict". Doomfist is a man who believes that and that sparking a new war will lead to the weak being weeded out and purged. Moira claims to want evolution for humanity through her genetic research, but it is implied she has ulterior motives beyond just that. Reaper, Sombra, and Ramattra are just piggybacking off of the organization to serve their own ends, with Reaper and Ramattra's motives being more ideological and Sombra's being more out of curiosity. Sigma and Widowmaker, who are both puppets and products of Talon's actions, only pay lip-service to the the mission yet continue to serve because doing so helps them learn to control themselves (Sigma) or because they're a case of gone horribly right and they've gotten so used to their new life and personality that they're beginning to show signs of self-actualization a growing desire for more out of their own life. (Widowmaker). In either case, each Talon leader is ultimately out for themselves at the end of the day, meaning it's more of a case of a house divided.

Simply put, the organization devoted to chaos is too chaotic for their own good.

[fresh fiber]

Did it really fail, or is it laughing to itself in its cage?

It's telling that after ANUBIS temporarily got out, weird shit started happening

[peak escarp]

like 3 years later

I really don't think Anubis is involved

[median orchid]

My call on the Chernoborg thing is that Talon has some connections in Finland (Likely the EYE) that have rebooted the ai after its public shutdown during the crisis.

Why else would it compell Emre to work with Vendetta?

[young dragon]

To gain access to more Overwatch facilities like Gibraltar and Antarctica? Not sure yet; it’s too early to tell.

Talon is connected to the conspiracy. But they seem to be being used and only Sombre and maybe 76 understands this.

[brittle sky]

Her omnic squadie shot themselves in the head before they were taken over

[young dragon]

Ah right. I wasn’t sure about the begging and thought I might be misremembering things. Fixed.

That was one of the first lore side stories iirc. It’s cool.

[peak escarp]

rip Okoro

[brittle sky]

Anubis seems an entity of complete loathing to omnics, a primordial demiurge including to omnic rights partisans like null sector. Interesting that chernobog is using a human puppet, a process with seemingly more steps. Either because it can't affect omnics (the awakening inoculated them? Only Anubis had figured out the trick? chernobog's quarantine or whoever pulls its strings has limited it?) or because it chooses not to

[keen summit]

Ow really cant choose what side mizuki is on

[brittle sky]

I mean. He's not really on either. His moral dilemma is between sides of a proxy conflict several degrees apart.

[spare fox]

He obviously cares for kiriko, the yokai, and Toshiro BUT he is basically owned by the Hashimoto and he's afraid of what they're capable of. Throw his supernatural and superstitious fears in the mix, the kid is a mess

He knows what's right, but his circumstances are basically being forced

Overwatch might offer him a safe out eventuality

[turbid crest]

[brittle sky]

Findommed to the dark side

[azure flint]

mizuki needs more lore quickly

hes kinda the odd one out rn

[spare fox]

It's coming in the next couple weeks

[meager geyser]

I'm excited for Anran, Emre even Domina lore

Not Mizuki

He looks boring af

[grand wedge]

Mizuki lore will be nice because it will give us Kiriko & Hanzo lore - and more Hashimoto vs Yokai lore in general.

[tough egret]

Ik im sounding like a broken record, but im so getting my hopes up for a potential animated series in the future someday

[grave saddle]

What are you excited for about Anran lore? I’ve only just started overwatch lore again since OW1 but I thought she just went to a fire college

[meager geyser]

Yeah, kinda

But she's still very cool

I want to see her more

[grave saddle]

Ah yeah igy igy. Would love to see her expanded on

I do think Mizuki’s toil between the yokai and Hashimoto has the potential to be really cool. I kinda hope he doesn’t side with the yokai in the first big choice between the two, later coming to regret that he did choose the Hashimoto

[meager geyser]

I do not care for Kirko lore

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-family-guy-i-did-not-care-conversation-gif-19568330

[ocean kettle]

What's the current lore for soldier 76

[grave saddle]

Rn he’s doing his own thing. One of the more recent stories from memory he was looking into who destroyed the Swiss OW base and it fed into the Conspiracy group theory so had sombra involved. But I think he had a more recent one with Illari too

[ocean kettle]

STILL no rematch between him and Reyes?

[grave saddle]

As far as I’m aware no. And I feel much less likely now that reaper is on the hide from talon

[languid kindle]

i dont know why but Emre's AI voice sounds, weary and tired

i dont know if it's intentional

like instead of being flat and robotic or something like that

it just sounds

tired

aside from the ultimate

[keen summit]

I mean it fits

Chernobog apologizedvwhen it got destroyed

Or well deacticated

[steady crag]

bro i literally found out that enran's bro is wuyan

i wonder who it will be next

the eldest sibling tank

[keen summit]

Huh

Yeah no shit

We knew this legit from wuyangs everything

[cedar shuttle]

Literally the only thing we know about anran

[edgy tree]

I like the Lucio interraction with Domina

finally a unique "what's your favourite animal" line

[grave saddle]

Not a sibling, but I imagined a omnic character who was a professor of the metal college. He would be a tank and his abilities focused on using drones in multiple capabilities such as grabbing onto one and gliding etc

[grim condor]

How does Mizuki fit into lore

Does he also have the Kiri plothole?😭

[grave saddle]

The Kiri plot hole with her age?

[grim condor]

Yes

[grim condor]

Oh so shes the sister he never stops talking about

I knew she was from one of the [insert element] colleges lmao I couldn't remember which one

[shy dagger]

https://x.com/wuyangpilled/status/2021753880514834526?s=46

zero (wuyang's bf) (@wuyangpilled)

the chances of mauga leaving talon to join the junkers so he can just fight people for money all day is not 0%

X · Feb 12, 2026, 1:11 AM

[silent linden]

Mauga isnt real character man

[meager geyser]

I like the theory that Kiriko is in her 30s, but she just lies about her age, because she wants to be youthful and cool

[leaden fjord]

so who manipulates emre
how does he have that eye transplanted on his body

[broken eagle]

Its unknown for now,but people theorise that its either chernobog or conspiracy controling emre

[dusky fog]

Free sigma

[broken eagle]

Real

[dusky fog]

They locked gramps up for no reason

He is definitely the goat but idk how vendetta managed to get him captured

[wise grotto]

Chernobog in particular is directly mentioned in lore@relating to@emre

[wise grotto]

Csuse he was just there all they had to do was put him in a tighter security spot and that’s it

[bold fern]

is there any character that hates jetpack cat/fika

all seem to love her

[wise grotto]

Juno is afraid of cats do she would kind of by default

[spare fox]

Reaper has a get lost fur ball elim line on her

[brittle sky]

uncertain, but heavily implied the entity that possesses him is some part or all of the god ai chernobog, associated with global security. Whether that is the ultimate mastermind or just a vector/tool itself is as of yet unknown.
The eye on his body appears to be part of cybernetics installed on his body and/or his suit by whatever process facilitated his possession.

[brittle sky]

mizuki is disappointed she's not a lucky cat

[brittle sky]

anran is allergic

[bold fern]

he thinks shes still cute

just disappointed

[bold fern]

she wanted to learn cat language

prob stepping out of comfort zone

[brittle sky]

he goes on to mention that black cats are the best cats when asked about animals by lucio

[peak escarp]

well he's right

black cats are the best cats

[fresh fiber]

She's manipulating him

Even an aggressive brute like Vendetta knows that she can't bully Sigma, he's just too powerful

[brittle sky]

I mean she's not really manipulating him so much as locking him in his room

[fresh fiber]

She specifically told him she did that because he was a threat to himself and others

Sigma is far too much of a sweetheart to question her, even if he's not entirely sure how he's a threat

Makes me feel even worse for Sigma tbh. Free my boy, and that's coming from a Mauga main

[brittle sky]

I mean... are we calling that manipulation. I believe vendetta honestly believes that (because his powers are not neatly in his control).

Doesn't mean she's justified in locking him away until she figures out how to weaponize him.

But it's not like what the previous talon MO was, which was letting him do minor experiments and using his mental/special confusion to convince him he's just being chums with some fellow researchers while still confining him and controlling his access to the outside world.

That was manipulation. This is going mask off.

[fresh fiber]

It still counts as manipulating Sigma. She didn't literally overpower him, just had Talon escort him to containment and used that truth as a means of keeping him caged

[brittle sky]

I'm not sure he's being kept confined purely because she said that. Sounds like he's being kept confined by force, and he's just offering the explanation she gave for why when sombra asked about his current situation. I don't think that statement is the only thing keeping him from breaking out.

It's not like he's superman confining himself by his own volition because of this statement; I don't think sigma has such consistent, confident, or even conscious enough control over his powers to just break out when he pleases.

[bold fern]

surely there isnt any bias

[fresh fiber]

We're forgetting that Sigma doesn't actually want to hurt people. So if somebody in a position of authority told him he was dangerous, he'd go along with it even if he could absolutely annihilate the planet. Sigma has enough control that he doesn't accidentally blink half the continent away, and I don't see Talon keeping him contained by force if they antagonized him

[edgy meadow]

old talon manipulated sigma, new talon abuses him

vendetta doesnt see him as a person and treats him as a weapon of mass destruction

[fresh fiber]

Either way, they take advantage of his biggest weakness; his vulnerability to suggestion

[peak escarp]

like much of the community

[shrewd pivot]

Sigma wants to escape tho, he says to Vendetta "RELEASE ME" and Emre says Sigma is under "lock and key" so I imagine Vendetta's Talon is imprisoning Sigma in some way

[fresh fiber]

The "RELEASE ME" alternate is not the dominant Sigma here (I'm referring to it as Bloodlust Sigma). For now, Normal Sigma remains in control unless something extreme happens

[edgy tree]

I'm preety sure it was stated directly she imprisoned him untill he was needed

[fresh fiber]

If Bloodlust Sigma gets control, he instantly blinks away Talon

[shrewd pivot]

If you interpret Sigma having two personalities that's a valid take based on the origin short. I personally read it as Sigma experiencing moments of his lifespan at random, future present past forwards and backwards, not something like DID. But I respect your interpretation.

What I mean is that Vendetta is holding Sigma against his will atm in some way, we just don't know exactly how yet (we haven't seen the prison cell or confinement area yet)

[fresh fiber]

I believe there are three Sigmas from across time and space. Original Sigma, Scientist Sigma, and Bloodlust Sigma. Whether they are the result of future and past, or the result of universe overlap via the singularity isn't exactly certain

[brittle sky]

I'm aware sigma doesn't want to hurt people. I just think the forcible imprisonment is doing more than the fig leaf of insisting he's a danger. We have no evidence he's really brought his powers to bear in such a big way as to pose an escape.

[peak escarp]

we have no evidence that he can use his powers to escape

[brittle sky]

exactly

[peak escarp]

if he could, any attempt at confining him would be futile

[fresh fiber]

That is also a good point

Then again, he doesn't need to. He's fused with a basketball-sized singularity, which would instantly destroy the Earth if he lost control of it

[peak escarp]

what

where did you get that idea

[fresh fiber]

From his Origin Short

[peak escarp]

it wasn't basketball sized

[fresh fiber]

Was it not? I can't really remember

[peak escarp]

also, his origin short was highly stylized, I wouldn't take it as gospel

[fresh fiber]

Hold on

[brittle sky]

I don't think we have any real evidence that he experiences fracture or alternative personalities. Just distress and what seems to us volitile emotions resulting from the distress and altered perception of reality that comes from his condition. You don't need a secret murder alter to have moments of aggression or panic. There's no evidence of a different identity or self, merely different emotions, which everyone experiences.

[peak escarp]

if you mean this, it's like baseball sized

[fresh fiber]

Yeah, that's correct

I guess I misremembered

[peak escarp]

but I don't think it represents the actual size of the black hole he created - a hole that size would destroy earth in seconds

[fresh fiber]

Unless he was somehow restricting it. Any kind of black hole larger than a marble would do immense damage to Earth regardless

[peak escarp]

exactly

so it had to have been smaller

like a pinprick of a black hole

[fresh fiber]

Not even, even smaller

It would have to be beyond microscopic to prevent it annihilating the lab

[shrewd pivot]

Hm interesting
Imo since viewers are meant to watch the origin short forwards and then backwards, the origin short is a meta art piece where Sigma is litterally "imprisoned" in the origin short on a loop. I read it as Sigma's POV bliping between past present future forwards backwards all at once bc of the gravity accident. His line with Mercy indicates he confuses what year it is, so he reads as POV at random not necessarily multiple personalities. Unless it's some id-ego-superego being fractured to support your 3 personalities take, I think it's also fair to interpret Sigma as a single POV being fractured across his entire lifespan.

[shrewd pivot]

That said, Zarya's ult has never been explained and Zarya ult is more than a pinprick black hole

[fresh fiber]

It's apparently not a black hole, but some kind of superdense gravity ball. Like, less dense than a neutron star at least

[shrewd pivot]

Ah ok

Regardless, Sigma doesn't even need to make a black hole to do major damage. Even a light gravity push could do major damage depending what gets pushed

[fresh fiber]

Literally spawning a singular uncontrolled black hole the size of a pin would instantly destroy Earth

Tidal forces alone would rip everything to shreds. He's restraining himself

[peak escarp]

it has been explained - it's a graviton bomb (gravitons being gravity particles)

[shrewd pivot]

That's assuming he doesn't create a gravity field around the black hole to counteract the pull on a pun sized black hole! :p

[peak escarp]

I don't think Sigma is as dangerous (or as powerful) as everyone believes

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah pardon my wording, I meant the visuals of the ult looking like a black hole rather than a gravity field

[fresh fiber]

That's my point. He's restricting his powers, otherwise he'd destroy the planet by accident

[fresh fiber]

He's fused with a baseball sized black hole. He flyswats the entire verse if Bloodlust Sigma gets control

[peak escarp]

nothing indicates that he can make a black hole at will - he did it once in a lab as an experiment

he's not fused with it

[shrewd pivot]

I have to wonder how canon that brain scan spray is, bc it implies he has a singularity in his brain. He also has armor around his skull so...?

[fresh fiber]

He does it ingame with Kinetic Grasp. I do feel that Grasp can be considered as somewhat canonical even if gameplay isn't meant to be taken literally

[peak escarp]

But something went wrong, triggering the brief formation of a black hole. De Kuiper was only exposed to its power for a moment, but he suffered serious psychological damage. The area around him began to experience strange fluctuations in gravity, peaking and dropping in time with his reactions. He had to be evacuated immediately.```

[shrewd pivot]

I would argue he is not actively restricting his powers, he is simply just not using his powers to that extreme.

[fresh fiber]

Fair

[peak escarp]

the community has developed this mythos around Sigma that he has godlike powers when really he can just manipulate gravity

[fresh fiber]

Which is a godlike power

[peak escarp]

yes that's a powerful ability, but we don't know his limits

can he implode the planet, or can he just lift rocks (which is all we've seen him do)

[shrewd pivot]

I mean tbf the origin short and in game kit do imply Sigma can do more than lightly float a pencil.

[fresh fiber]

The ability to manipulate gravity to the point where you can summon controlled singularities at will (Kinetic Grasp) is basically godlike in a universe that usually has building level characters

[peak escarp]

gameplay isn't canon

kinetic grasp probably doesn't exist

[shrewd pivot]

Kinetic grasp might not be a singularity just a gravity crush, and not all gameplay mechanics are canon. Ie: Zenyatta ult, etc

[brittle sky]

I mean, if you can really manipulate gravity, you do have godlike powers. Gravity messes with a lot - realistically that would warp reality beyond just effective telekinesis. Not saying he has that level of power or finess, but gravity dips its fingers into a lot of pies, astrophysically speaking.

[fresh fiber]

I mentioned earlier that Grasp can be loosely considered canon, seeing as to how it fits Sigma's theme, sort of like how Zarya's bubbles work

[peak escarp]

but you get what I mean, right? Sigma is overhyped

[shrewd pivot]

I think by "godlike" Dr meant op world ending gravity powers.
Not that light gravity powers aren't godlike at all

[fresh fiber]

I feel he is underused more than anything

[brittle sky]

I think he's built up in absense of his practical effects and hard evidence, but who isn't in the cast? His origin story is very cool, clearly got a lot of imagination firing, and they haven't followed up on him enough to provide more grounding evidence.

[fresh fiber]

You'd already have to be bending spacetime to manipulate gravity like that

[shrewd pivot]

It would be hilarious for overwatch to have the doomfist that can blow up buildings, but then make the gravity powers guy not be able to gravity crush things in canon

[fresh fiber]

So either way, Sigma is already a god

[peak escarp]

when did Doomfist blow up buildings?

[shrewd pivot]

The doomfist gauntlet can take down very large targets bc it is a very powerful weapon is what I mean

[fresh fiber]

The Doomfist Gauntlet was stated to be able to destroy skyscrapers. It at least scales to Vendetta's blade, which can destroy huge robots. It's probably hyperbole though

[peak escarp]

hyperbole, said by a child

[fresh fiber]

Like I said

[peak escarp]

no evidence that he can actually level a skyscraper

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist with a bionic arm could punch through concrete walls, I think it is fair to say the doomfist can punch through more than concrete walls.

[fresh fiber]

Doomfist at the most scales to City Block Level, but that's still quite a wank imo

[shrewd pivot]

I didn't mean level a skyscraper, I meant that canonically the doomfist is a very powerful gauntlet, it could easily be used to do massive destruction.

[peak escarp]

that's what Timmy says about him - "I hear he could level a skyscraper"

I'm not saying you said it

[shrewd pivot]

I think my jokeyness in my sentence didn't come across, sorry.

My point was "Doomfist is canonically a huge threat with the gauntlet for rule of cool badassery, it would be funny if gravity powers guy wasn't canonically a threat at all and only able to float pencils"

[peak escarp]

well so far he hasn't been

he's just sad science granpa

I hope Sombra is able to save him

ooh, what if they're trying to break him out, Sombra gets hurt and that's what makes Sigma flip

[shrewd pivot]

Considering his origin short implied something will happen in the future (he looks pretty badass evil villain there) I have to assume Sigma does canonically have the potential to do more harm than float a pencil with his powers.

[peak escarp]

I'm a sucker for powerful beings going godmode when a loved one gets hurt

[shrewd pivot]

Would be a foil to Winston losing it and beating Doomfist for hurting tracer! Like, Vendetta hurts Sombra so Sigma goes sicko mode

[peak escarp]

bonus points if they only snap out of it by seeing their loved one safe/hearing their voice

[brittle sky]

I hope she goes to save him, then gets faced with the choice between saving sigma and chasing the conspiracy, and chooses the latter.

[peak escarp]

one of my all time favorite tropes (another being 'reveal a secret identity to defuse conflict')

[peak escarp]

ooh that would be spicy, I like it

[brittle sky]

If every character gets out of their bad situations, resolves their character conflicts, and only changes for the better, this world and story will be wrapped in like two years of story.

[shrewd pivot]

I have an ow oc i made to explore "am i more omnic or human?" lore bc Genji kinda fell flat on that subject imo, right up your ally then, but I doubt you would want to hear it 😅 lol.

Regardless ik Ana mythic already touched on it, but a SOMA style character on the overwatch roster one day would rock

[shrewd pivot]

I think that would be a very interesting choice for Sombra bc a lot of the Talon villains have a "ends justify the means" outlook in some way.

I do wish for Sigma to escape, but not in a happily ever after way, and keeping Sigma confined builds tension.

I agree with you on this take

[hushed jetty]

i saw someone speculatethat the omnic-looking girl on the left in that image with the 10 heroes could be a wargod type thing

as in, someone's consciousness put into an omnic body, or copied in there

[dense garnet]

Sigma doesn't have control over black holes

It's more likely that he has control over space and time

But still not absolute control

[shrewd pivot]

If so that would be so damn fun. I love SOMA-style horror.

[dense garnet]

What if Noir is an omnic that had the memories or mind of a human inserted into it

So it's a human trapped in an Omnic body

[shrewd pivot]

Sigma can control gravity fluctuations, seemingly by bending space time around him, if his hyperspheres are any indication

[shrewd pivot]

That's just fallout nick valentine but overwatch haha

I wouldn't be opposed! But I hope trenchcoat omnic isn't a one to one copy of nick valentine situation. I am hoping for a Sherlock dandy, something more camp.

Bc Sojourn was meant to be the gumshoe character imo. Chasing the truth, nailing it down, etc. It would kinda suck and take away from a core Sojourn aspect if trenchcoat omnic is just a better robotic gumshoe than Sojourn got to be.

[dense garnet]

Jack is more of a gumshoe these days

Searching for the conspiracy

And yes I love Nick Valentine lmao

I just like the idea of an omnic-hater having to come to terms that he's an omnic now

[brittle sky]

I think consciousness upload is something we both could or couldn't see. Like on one hand, that might weaken the fragile, finite nature of omnic consciousness. On the other, we may already have that with ramattra's rapture. (rampture?).

[shrewd pivot]

Idk if i ever expressed this before, but I would LOVE a drag persona as a hero in overwatch, and Dandies are like one of the og drag personas. Dandies are men of lower class who dress up overly stereotypical of high class, like a campy over exaggeration of high class gentleman.

You could Argue Reggie is an omnic dandy lmafoooo he even has balding hair pieces.

So if trenchcoat omnic is a campy dandy Sherlock persona I would adore that, I hope there's a silly metal mustache and useless monocle and everything.

[brittle sky]

I think there may be inherent mystery in being an omnic consciousness than a human upload, actually.

[brittle sky]

Honestly I would be shocked if overwatch got that bold and not 'market-safe' on a character these days

[shrewd pivot]

The nullsector omnic skins are canon null sector units i thought (atleast for Orisa they are)? Or am I wrong sorry idr

Bc if the nullsector omnic skins are canon null sector units, that means Ramattra IS employing wargod ana units, etc etc

[dense garnet]

Do you think we'll get more comic storytimes with multiple voice actors?

Like at once

They kinda did that with Emre and Freja

[brittle sky]

Vendetta and Max did it already in vested

[dense garnet]

True

[civic lynx]

the orisa ones are used in uprising/underworld as lore accurate units so it’s possible Ana’s one was meant to set up something maybe for PvE of him trying to copy OW agents for null sector with the efficiency and lethality they had

[shrewd pivot]

Dandies are everywhere in media tho? Dandy is like the 'market-safe' version of dragkings. Instead of (usually women) LARPING as a campy king, dandies (usually men of lower class) are LARPING as a campy high-class gentleman.

Slayer from guilty gear is a famous example of dandies in media

[wise grotto]

Slayer my favourite man who loves his wife very much

But yes a dandy would be peak in ow

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

i cant escape slayer

let me out let me out let me out let me out

[brittle sky]

Guilty gear is also much closer to an auteur product than overwatch. Which gets it a lot more flexibility - it straight up just was like "yeah I misunderstood what I was going for. This is a trans woman"

Sure a dandy ala marquis is not beyond the pale, but any drag that smacks of gender as the kids say would be an order of magnitude more bold than they've shown of late.

[edgy meadow]

but also like, what is 'market-safe' by definition

[wise grotto]

DANDY”two touches you

[edgy meadow]

overwatch is already very openly queer friendly, primarily in the west

[shrewd pivot]

My question would be, HOW did Ramattra get his hands on brain scans to make such units like wargod ana???? Who has that info. It makes me think about Reaper hunting down overwatch agents, and how Reaper can retain his mind when going mist form. Does overwatch or Talon keep brainscans of agents? Did Widowmaker's brainwashing mean overwatch began doing brainscans? Or did that brainwashing by Talon imply Talon keeps brainscans of agents?

[civic lynx]

Ig talon could do it for its agents from moira wanting to do research but idk why/how/if ow would do it

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. They have had masculine women (Zarya) and effeminate men (Lifeweaver). Tracer, the poster girl of ow1, is a lesbian.

A dandy would be easily implementable into overwatch, more so than a drag king or drag queen character. So it wouldn't suprise me if we got a dandy character in overwatch one day.

[brittle sky]

In small steps, sure. We have a few non-straight characters and a nonbinary character. And don't get me wrong, all that rep is cool and the creative team should be proud of what they have, but character design and conception, particularly in how characters present, it's been to maximize the broadest appeal in the most uncontroversial ways. This is the era where people can't even propose anran should look her personality and role rather than a genshin character without facing harassment.

[edgy meadow]

I agree in the aspect that you can never satisfy everyone.
But i get what you mean with trying to play it safe

i do think the new team has a very different approach to things nowadays tho

they are, for once, directly aknowledging user feedback and are willing to change character models

the more liberty the team gets as they succeed the more i can see blizzard giving them authority to make 'braver' designs

[peak escarp]

we haven't had a character model in need of changing before

[brittle sky]

I mean, zarya isn't even particularly butch, just muscular and in practical clothing. Not that she needed to be, but she's hardly this wild outlier.

[edgy meadow]

this isnt the first time people complained about character appereance surely

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah... and anyone disagreeing let alone harassing people for saying Anran should have a face model tweak to make Anran follow the same quality that other ow heroes have had in the past aren't actually overwatch fans and aren't worth listening to. Overwatch should keep a consistent quality in hero designs, not degrade in quality. Anran face absolutely needs a tweak to make her atleast look related to Wuyang and make her look older than Wuyang

[peak escarp]

Anran had a pre-established appearance that her in game model doesn't match

[edgy meadow]

true

[brittle sky]

Maybe, but I thnk that's ground they need to regain, not gain, given how hard character design has shifted for maximum of marketability and minimum of controversy.

[civic lynx]

I think people have complained about designs but it’s usually just been the character doesn’t look great both in lore or in game rather than a complete design overhaul for no reason

[peak escarp]

people complain about sameface a lot, but they're not exact copies and they match their existing art (when applicable)

[shrewd pivot]

Back in 2016 Zarya was much more subversive! She's a female strongman, the strongest woman, and wears bright pink hair to assert her identity.

Now a days you get Zarya types more often in media. It's funny, if Zarya was a man with bright pink hair that would read as more subversive today.

Times have changed!

[edgy meadow]

valid

[shrewd pivot]

Nah after Hazard was santized, it's clear the new team is going for more safe designs unfortunately. Even Emre could have looked more corrupted cyborg, but they kept a fully human face.

Anran's base outfit is also way to skimpy to take seriously. She's sporty sure, but her design doesn't read as a Wuxia hero nor a traditional fan dancer. She should have had cool sporty long pants, or a longer qipao with side leg slits (ow1 Symmetra vibes) if they had to make her show skin

[civic lynx]

I think hazard’s final design is better than the concepts they had that were way too out there and extreme even compared to OW1 but he could’ve been better

[brittle sky]

Being there at the time, Zarya (and mei) were lauded as being outside the norm, but not like mind bogglingly so. And don't get me wrong, those moves were a big deal - my partner got into overwatch in part because that variety in their design gave the message 'hey we're looking for a wide variety of cool characters, including female characters whose appeal is not consistently catering to conventional market attractiveness'. She veery much feels overwatch has retreated from that message in recent design spaces.

[shrewd pivot]

I would have taken this as his base design over his current base, atleast. Give him green hair too. There is nothing punk about blonde hair lol

[peak escarp]

that's a very busy design

[wise blaze]

Ngl Mauga is getting wiped in Junker Town

[civic lynx]

I think that design is still a bit too out there for OW and making skins for it would be a pain

The simpler base designs we get nowadays while boring (and sometimes not fitting the character) are easy to make loads of legendaries out of for the shop which is the main way blizzard get any money out of the game

[brittle sky]

How is it even that out there? Like, what's beyond the pale her past roadhog or mauga? You can quibble the amount of small detailing, but the overall emphasis on alteration and adjustments feems like it articulates the character and his personality and values way more.

[civic lynx]

The furthest they got from the most basic futuristic fighter design possible was ram and he got skins once in a blue moon for most of OW2

[shrewd pivot]

I miss the green hair and metal jaw from early concepts. Also, the phreaks logo was based on the split jaw that was lost over itterations, so a metal jaw could have atleast saved the motif.

Atleast this design reads more as an unconventional body modder and not less punk than JunkerQueen like the current design does.

[civic lynx]

Hazard’s final design is very boring I agree but I think his concept designs had too much goin on and were scrapped for good reason in blizzard’s eyes

[brittle sky]

I think blizzard is doing well enough and has what, a dozen plus characters who are perennial skin selling safe options. Skin sales will be fine

[civic lynx]

They will be fine but they always want more

Same way activision and Microsoft always want more and expect every new release to spike profits

[brittle sky]

Just because the perpetual growth model of captalism exists doesn't mean I want it dictating the shape and direction of the narratives I enjoy

[civic lynx]

If a hero falls flat on launch/in internal tests or would require more effort to make people love the skins and want to purchase them they just ditch them in favour of a new, basic and widely seen as attractive hero

[shrewd pivot]

Which is upsetting bc a strength of overwatch was it's iconic hero design and strong shape use. No more Genjis, Roadhogs, Bastions, Reapers, etc. Gotta be a youthful human showing full face with a humanoid body. Atleast Mizuki has a mask and hat, but his first skin immediately removed his mask lol.

They are making blander base hero designs now to sell skins, which sucks. Vendetta's base design was very disappointing to me, for example.

[civic lynx]

Kiriko had great concept designs that would’ve made her much more interesting but they would take more time and effort for skins and may make her stand out a bit too much compared to normal humans that are around her in lore

The final design is much more bland but it’s easier to throw skins together for and she doesn’t stand out when not using her powers (she’s also conventionally attractive)

[brittle sky]

I mean the hard line between character and npc in design work is already very evident (the mauga/nguyen line). No need to use that as the excuse to tone down characters more.

[shrewd pivot]

While I really like the stylized Miko shrine maiden silhouette in her current base design, I must admit this pants silhouette better represents Kiriko as a young but 'authority' figure to protect others. Also would have given Kiriko’s legs a better hitbox silhouette to differ her from Tracer

[brittle sky]

I think we all know the marketing logic at play, we don't have to accept that as unavoidable, or inevitable, or good.

[civic lynx]

I don’t think it’s good but I think for most live service games it is inevitable

[brittle sky]

I'm less convinced of that, especially with a giant company like blizzard. Certainly it does not have to be as pervasive as it is.

[civic lynx]

Lore will always be seen as less important compared to what’s profitable even if people who genuinely love the characters and the world the devs have worked to create want them to try and be less controlled by higher ups wanting profit

[shrewd pivot]

When money-making demands skin sales, that unfortunately often means sanitizing designs

[civic lynx]

OW1 was paid so higher ups/activision were probably much more open to letting them think outside the box and make heroes that really no other game could, OW today is live service where profit is everything

[shrewd pivot]

It pisses me off bc its very common for this "sell more skins!" motivation to make certain biases worse. Like... colorism for example. I am tired of overwatch giving characters blonde/white hair and blue eyes in skins to characters that do not have blonde/white hair and blue eyes.

Wuyang was hit hard by that bs

[civic lynx]

I agree

[brittle sky]

I'm aware these are things. I'm just offering pushback against them.

[civic lynx]

Theres also some survey skins that attempt to drastically change a hero’s face or skin colour (Illari and sombra mainly have had this happen) which is odd to me

[shrewd pivot]

For sure, and I am sure there are many artists within the company pushing back against such things! It's just hard to get designs through to begin with, so it's like talking to a brick wall for those artists.

I just hope the Anran face change will actually be a 3d model change and not just 2d textures.

[shrewd pivot]

Don't get me started on the skintone miscolorings in sprays either.

Like. Use the cute sprays as a base, Eyedropper tool exists. The dev doodle sprays are still miscolored.

[civic lynx]

These 2 clearly have different designs (illari’s skin tone and to a lesser extent lw, genji’s face) to how they have been shown in every other appearance

[dense garnet]

Wasn't that "what if the omnic crisis never happened" skin contest controversal?

[brittle sky]

I think as players and critics letting the presence of that logic kill any talk of how it could be different or better effectively complies and allows that kind of ghoulishness. I don't think me complaining will make a difference, but I think mere acceptance is worse than nothing.

And yeah, not blaming the artists or creatives. Just the system and management that constrains them.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah submissions didn't even take the theme into consideration. Ramattra wouldn't even exist if the omnic crisis never happened, R-7000 units were only created by Anubis during the crisis 28 years ago. Yet, various characters got ooc skins. "If the omnic crisis never happened, Juno would go to the beach!" Kinda bs lol

I think Sombra's news reporter skin, Ashe sculpture artist skin, and Zenyatta ticket master skin were my faves. Kiriko being a donut shop worker, works too.

[brittle sky]

Honestly anyone under the age of 30 probably wouldn't exist

[shrewd pivot]

This is why it upsets me when the new team said they aren't going to focus in on character silhouettes/personalities anymore for skins. :( cozy Cassidy removes his brim hat, breaks animations. Cassidy mythic removes cowboy boots AND cowboy hat. Characters are being slapped with ooc themes, like the Ana wedding skin is super ooc for Ana. It's not something a character would wear, it's just a random junk skin like mobile games have. Overwatch skins used to get entire aus around them in fandoms bc the skins used to be used for story telling, like the Halloween skins.

It's bad bc character personality was showcased in skins. Now we can expect Moira to be getting ooc skins that don't take into account her style or androgynous expression.... it ruins rep.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah lol

[civic lynx]

This is one of the worst aspects of OW2’s vision but it’s nice they’re at least starting to change BP’s to have lore relevance

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I am very happy about lore related bp!

[civic lynx]

Not every shop bundle will be lore accurate bc cutesy skins must sell but they should have like 2 or 3 that have some sort of storyline

[shrewd pivot]

I'm so happy Lúcio got a collab skin that actually changes his music, it's fun

[civic lynx]

Mirrorwatch/dokiwatch wasn’t canon and that had both BP and shop skins that had a story no matter how goofy attached to them

[shrewd pivot]

I hope Zarya can get like. Something that isn't a recolor soon

[shrewd pivot]

More so au, but yeah still a story! I like that storytelling

[civic lynx]

If they include her in lore more since she’s part of ow I think they will give her a new skin finally

[edgy meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-calico-cat-cute-dance-cat-dance-gif-27615826

[civic lynx]

With any luck a new highlight intro as well

[shrewd pivot]

Volskaya (or Sombra blackmail maybe?) has to play a role if Vendetta is doing a global war, surely.... #copium

[civic lynx]

Trust they will remember her

[brittle sky]

You mean they're going to touch the Russian oligarch who is prosecuting a bloody and stalemated territorial war under false pretenses?

[edgy meadow]

i find that people naturally stray away from out of character skins

[dense garnet]

At least they can never remove Mizuki's hat design

[edgy meadow]

which is why they are trying to lean away from that, but yes im not going to pretend like there isnt substantial corporate influence

[dense garnet]

It's a core part of his gameplay kit

[shrewd pivot]

They already mashed up "Ancient Rome + The Italian Mafia + starwars portrayals of fascism which then implies Italian fascism" into a botched soup of Vendetta, so anything is possible </3

[civic lynx]

I honestly would not be shocked if they eventually move the hat to be on his back

He just takes it off his back and throws it but they can show off that god awful hair

[dense garnet]

I wouldn't mind if Mizuki becomes the next skin cow

He's handsome

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah... tell that to people buying Mercy skins giving Mercy blue dyed hair which is ooc (that beach skin for mercy is ooc)

[brittle sky]

That feels less of an immediate problem. Like 'generally shallow cuts and bad vibes' is one thing. Taking any sort of direct or easily analogous stand on modern politics is another.

[dense garnet]

Don't the new cupid skins for Kiriko and Juno give them pink hair

[brittle sky]

Is he? Is that what we're calling that face on street wear?

[dense garnet]

Okay that skin is mid

But his concept art face is handsome

[shrewd pivot]

Oh I meant botching the understanding of the politics entirely with Volskaya LOL

[brittle sky]

(also goddamn if he's meant to be a nervous superstitious downer utterly convinced he's living under a family curse make his appearance reflect that)

[civic lynx]

The mask falls off when he dies on his default skin and looks a mess as well

[brittle sky]

I think the parallels are too overt for anyone to miss that rn. That's like 'making a character who is from palestine, or an indpendent taiwan' level of lightning rod that legal would jump on.

[dense garnet]

Mizuki grown on me heavy

Can't wait to see where his story goes

[shrewd pivot]

What i mean is that the beach skin for Mercy is ooc, it's not something Mercy would wear.

Kiriko and Juno already have un-natural hair colors so it's not ooc imo for Kiriko and Juno to have unnatural hair colors in skins

[civic lynx]

I still think mizuki’s boring in game but his lore got hella potential

[dense garnet]

Might be the shipper in me but I can kinda see Kiriko and Mizuki being a thing

Kiriko treats Mizuki pretty mindly, almost with pity, and when she heals him (I forget if it's with the ofudas or the suzu) she says "cleansing your curse"

[civic lynx]

I think they definitely will be eventually

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. They have a German in a "Crusader" team, who didn't view awakened omnics as sapient in PVE, named Reinhardt of all things, overwatch team's ignorance of political/historical context is pretty severe already.

[brittle sky]

booo. dump him on literally anyone other than the person he was grown in a lab to ship with.

[civic lynx]

I’d love for them to start confirming relationships for more characters

[brittle sky]

That's still details that don't scan well vs. very obvious hornet's nests. Also reinhardt being careless about omnics is 100% an injection for pve to give him an arc so when he dies protecting some omnics from getting subjugated it feels like not just the completion of this quixotic character but the end of an arc'tm

[fierce moon]

mizuki x wuyang will be canon by the end of the year

[shrewd pivot]

I would prefer it to be npc relationships like Hazard x Susie or Tracer x Emily. I didn't like how they handled Mercy roster hero to roster hero romance (I don't like Mercy x Genji NOR Mercy x Pharah for canon), so I hope any new relationships are side characters bc they seem to do it best that way.

[brittle sky]

I mean exes would be incredibly funny as cast members

[dense garnet]

They only did that to appeal to shippers without adding any story relevance to them. Something like Mizuki and Kiriko 100% can have good story relevance and character development

[shrewd pivot]

True about the PVE thing, but Reinhardt being anti omnic longer than Torbjörn was, was still pretty much canon before PVE. And I mean... overwatcg seems to be overtly critiquing Chinese government and culture with Mei vs Lucheng critiquing corrupt power, and Anran and Wuyang critiquing toxic Chinese culture standards so idk, it wouldn't suprise me if Volskaya is just played as an anti omnic corrupt leader being influenced by Sonbra's blackmail, or just a completely botched context for Volskaya all together.

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki lost his family at 9, forced into the Hashimoto bc of family debt, and was raised/mentored by Kiriko’s dad. Mizuki is like Kiriko’s long lost step brother, platonic only dynamic in canon.

[dense garnet]

Sorta just depends where the story takes Mizuki

[spare fox]

that's... not implied at all

[dense garnet]

Things can change very drastically in story development

[spare fox]

they're teammates

Mizuki wasn't raised by Toshiro, he only interacted with him and inspired by his kindness

[shrewd pivot]

I ain't about to ship a boy Kiriko’s dad mentored/raised with Kiriko.

In heroes ascendant story, Hanzo describes that Kiriko's mom was like a mother figure to Hanzo and Genji via her mentorship-- thus Hanzo and Kiriko and Genji are platonic only in canon bc of a niece to uncle or cousin or step sibling dynamic,

so it's implied that Kiriko’s dad mentoring Mizuki since a young age would mean Mizuki is like a step brother to Kiriko, platonic only in canon

[spare fox]

that's an extreme stretch. I mean, you don't have to ship them, but that's an extreme reach as a reason they shouldn't be shipped

[dense garnet]

I don't think mentorship by her father means that they can't be together

[spare fox]

right? because it doesn't

this is just more of that adult age gap nonsense, people are so weird about shipping sometimes

[edgy meadow]

i cant recall the last time ive seen someone boot up in a game with a blue haired mercy skin

beach skin is different unfortunately

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-hat-smol-gif-16247795867102792011

[spare fox]

and I don't necessarily ship Mizuki-Kiriko - I want to see more where the story goes but, those def aren't reasons not to ship them if you want

[edgy meadow]

to me just buying the skin dont matter as much as being an active player using them

[dense garnet]

Not even saying that I want them to be together or that I ship them - I just think that's a valid direction they can go

[shrewd pivot]

????
Hanzo and Genji were mentored by Kiriko’s mom. Hanzo and Genji see Kiriko's mom like a mother figure.

Mizuki was mentored by Kiriko’s dad since a young age after Mizuki's family died. Mizuki would see Kiriko’s dad like a father figure.

I am not going to ship incest, yes that includes step sibling and adopted sibling dynamics.

By your logic, are Brigitte and Bastion are fine to ship despite being adopted siblings???

[edgy meadow]

adopted siblings?

[spare fox]

DUDE that is NOT what incest is

and they are not adopted siblings/step siblings

[cyan crow]

Soldier and Sombra are working together on something according to a voiceline

[dense garnet]

You're just assuming Mizuki and Toshiro see each other as family figures

It's just mentorship. Babysitting at best

[edgy meadow]

i think its based on the short story from last year where the two are looking into the destroyed overwatch base and inti warriors

[spare fox]

right and that mentor figures is the equivalent of a blood relative or even step relative like

[dense garnet]

I think Mizuki and Toshiro are close but they're not family figures with each other

[cyan crow]

Oooh, I havent read the short story. Is it a comic?

[edgy meadow]

not a comic no

[spare fox]

they have the narrated short story on their yt channel

[cyan crow]

Ohhh okok, ima watch

[spare fox]

it's quite good

this guy is really typing a full on essay about how because their parents taught someone something as a child that it's the exact same thing as being a parent and thus shipping them is incest

[edgy meadow]

all of this is fixed if we just get more meka lore lowk

[shrewd pivot]

I can't believe I have to say this. Tw abuse topic explained
||Incest dynamics isn't only bad bc of biology making sickly offspring.
Incest dynamics is bad because it breaks a core boundary of platonic-only familial relationships. "Emotional incest" is a real type of abuse victims face.|| I personally will not ship familial-only found family dynamics because of this.

For example: Torbjörn adopted Bastion. Bastion is therefore Brigitte's adopted sibling, platonic only in canon.

Kiriko’s mom is stated by Hanzo to be seen as a mother figure to Hanzo and Genji, meaning Kiriko can only be platonic in canon with Genji and Hanzo.

Mizuki just lost his whole family at NINE years old, terrified of a bad luck curse. Kiriko’s dad is extremely careful on who he gives his true Anima tech too, meaning Kiriko’s dad is close enough to Mizuki to know the REAL Mizuki. Kiriko’s dad was not just a mentor, but most likely a parental figure to Mizuki bc Mizuki was only 9 when his whole family died.

I hate that people don't understand overwatch is filled with various platonic-only found family. Winston and Tracer are key figures of platonic only found family. Mei and Juno are platonic only found family. Mondatta, Ramattra, and Zenyatta are platonic only found family. Ashe and BOB are platonic only, with BOB raising Ashe.

If you want "found family" but not platonic only dynamic, the deadlock gang all being found family but not necessarily siblings are there. Ashe and Cassidy, who had a potential romance that never happened.

[young dragon]

Interesting nuance. You feel quite passionately about this subject, Ultra.

[edgy meadow]

i find it very unnuanced, actually, not that i disagree

its a very clear definition

and ye theres definitely a lot of times people confuse or undistinguish platonic relationships

[young dragon]

Relationships are complicated. People even moreso. I wouldn’t get upset over it.

[merry mason]

If you get the concept of found family without being analogous to a sibling relationship why even bring this up

[edgy meadow]

im still confused on the bastion adopted sibling thing just bc i dont understand where thats from

[young dragon]

If anything Bastion’s more of an adopted child.

[spare fox]

yeah but no, it's not emotional incest or whatever. They aren't related just because Kiriko's dad knows him. That's not even "found family" nor is it implied to be. Shipping Mizuki and Kiriko is very much NOT incest

[merry mason]

Totally agree about the emotional problems with incest

[shrewd pivot]

it's... not nuance. i just dislike when dark content is improperly tagged, and most fandoms are weird about shipping step sibling or adopted siblings because "oh it's not bio related so its fine" bs

[spare fox]

but they aren't even implied to be step siblings or adopted siblings

[shrewd pivot]

In texts, Torbjörn actually says he adopted Bastion iirc. Regardless, Torbjörn is caretaking Bastion atm and Torbjörn is a dad of many kids so it's heavily implied to be a guardian to child dynamic

[spare fox]

Mizuki just learned kindness and got a weapon from Toshiro who probably saw some good in him. That's not the same as a father figure and even if it was, it wouldn't be literal anyway

[shrewd pivot]

You are missing my logic.

Are Hanzo and Genji implied to have platonic only dynamics with Kiriko, yes or no.

[dense garnet]

Afaik yes

[edgy meadow]

makes sense

[young dragon]

Near as we can tell, Mizuchi doesn’t even know Kiriko is his mentor’s kid yet. He’s just realizing it maybe possible.

I could see them getting together, but that doesn’t necessarily make it incest or even probable. They prioritize different things. He wants to be his own man. She wants freedom and justice for her community.

[spare fox]

I'm not missing any logic. Your line of reasoning does not follow soundly. Hanzo and Genji's relationship with Kiriko isn't in question here, and even if it was, it's not analagous to a different circumstance

[young dragon]

Yes, they’re related via a degree of separation. But he’s pretty damn awkward and mentally very much still a young teen. She on the other hand is both quite mature yet too reckless.

[merry mason]

That doesn’t mean he adopted him as a son I read it more as how you adopt a stray cat, but not in the way of him being a pet but like adopting here means taking him into his care

[young dragon]

They value and seek different things. They’re connected but ultimate he doesn’t know how to get what he truly wants.

Mizuchi’s a lot more like some of my students than Kiriko is. Particularly with how he talks. He acts like a Fukuokan street kid.

[shrewd pivot]

Right. Genji and Hanzo were mentored by Kiriko’s mom, not even living with her, and the Shimadas saw Kiriko’s mom as a mother figure afterGenji and Hanzo's mom left the picture.

Mizuki was 9 and only found safety in Kiriko’s dad. Kiriko’s dad, as shown in the heroes ascendant story, does NOT give out Anima tech willy nilly. Kiriko’s dad spent enough time with child Mizuki to know Mizuki was worthy of Anima tech. Mizuki lost his family at 9, terrified of a bad luck curse, ofc a traumatized orphan who found safety in a mentor would see Kiriko’s father as a parental figure.

Thus, Mizuki is like Kiriko’s long lost step brother dynamics. Doesn't have to have Kiriko’s dad litterally say "I adopt Mizuki" to see that dynamic.

[merry mason]

You realize you can have a close relationship with a mentor and not view them as your father right

[young dragon]

I suppose you’re right. But the step sibling comparison, while having some merit, seems to be a reach.

[shrewd pivot]

Using the same tone you are btw:

You realize overwatch is about found family dynamics right. And Hanzo and Genji’s dynamic with Kiriko’s mom sets precedent, right.

[spare fox]

It's an absolute reach, got some stretch armstrong gymnastics there. That's not step child/sibling dynamics

[spare fox]

you do realize that one relationship dynamic does not fit 1:1 with another relationship dynamic just by existing, right?

[shrewd pivot]

I will be happy when Mizuki gets a line describing Kiriko’s dad as like a father figure to him, I cannot wait. I am tired of people ignoring obvious subtext when it comes to platonic only dynamics in media.

[young dragon]

I don’t get why this is an argument. Can’t you each have different perspectives?

[merry mason]

Father figure != father hood even of the adopted kind and I’m not talking legally

[spare fox]

just because Hanzo and Genji supposedly saw Kirko's mom as a mother figure (I'm pretty sure they didn't, but anyway), just because that would be incestuous (it isn't) doesn't mean that Kiriko and Mizuki is incest just because Mizuki knew Kiriko's dad and he took pity on him, orphan or not

[young dragon]

🙌

[spare fox]

ok and even if he does, IF, that STILL wouldn't be incest, just FYI

[shrewd pivot]

Say that to the weirdos that ship Ramattra and Zenyatta wanting the ship canon, despite the canon and official ow writers joking about Malcolm in the middle with Ramattra, Zenyatta, Mondatta, and Genji. I personally am fine with aus but in canon nothing indicates Mizuki is romantic with Kiriko, and the dynamic set up is implying Kiriko’s dad mentored Mizuki since a young age.

[young dragon]

I’m out. Clearly this is going to keep getting more adversarial and weird until the topic changes.

[merry mason]

Yeah you’re right

[shrewd pivot]

Can you reread my spoiler explanation, it makes it clear it is indeed such dynamics.

I ain't about to ship Kiriko with a boy her father raised like a son.

Also yes, Hanzo directly states he saw Kiriko’s mom like a mother figure in the heroes ascendant story.

[spare fox]

there is nothing to indicate Mizuki was raised by Toshiro!

what aren't you getting about that? you are inserting context where there is none implied

[spare fox]

yeah "in the company of" that's not "raised by"

[wheat maple]

I would believe more that he was raised by Hashimoto, and Toshiro simply brought up the good in him

[shrewd pivot]

So Mizuki canonically didn't look up to Kiriko’s dad as not even a mentor figure then?

[spare fox]

he talked to him and learned from him, even if that's a mentor that's not raised by

[spare fox]

obviously not fully, like he's not his father or anything, just a nice guy that he learned from

[merry mason]

Yeah that was my reading of this

[spare fox]

Sounds like he was more raised by the Hashimoto than Toshiro, but Toshiro fostered some goodness in him. I'd think it's more like an unlikely friendship, possibly mentor-ish but even if he were a father figure, it's not a father, and that discounts all the logical backflips you are taking to make "Kiriko and Mizuki are step siblings"

[shrewd pivot]

The Hashimoto were the gang that stole Mizuki after his father gained debt and passed away, transferring that debt to Mizuki. Mizuki would NOT trust the Hashimoto

[spare fox]

except... mizuki IS working for the Hashimoto

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, he is forced to because of debt. Mizuki probably was indoctrinated by the Hashimoto, but I doubt Mizuki sees the Hashimoto as his real family nor a safe family

[wheat maple]

He doesn't (probably). He simply had no choice

[dense garnet]

Oh, I was saying Hanzo and Genji don't see Kiriko's mom as theirs

[merry mason]

Yeah it’s an abusive dynamic here

[spare fox]

that still doesn't make Toshiro - and certainly not Kiriko - his family or "found" family/step family though

[shrewd pivot]

Not as thier adopted mom, but as a motherly figure. That paired with the family lines being family friends, it is safe to say in Canon that Kiriko, Genji, and Hanzo are platonic only

[shrewd pivot]

My point:
If Mizuki ends up seeing Kiriko’s dad as a father figure( which other characters have done to Kiriko’s mom, and the fact overwatch is big on platonic found family, thus why I argue the subtext implies this), then that would make Kiriko and Mizuki a platonic only dynamic in canon, with Mizuki as a kinda "long lost step sibling" kind of dynamic, doesn't have to litterally be Kiriko’s dad adopting Mizuki.

[peak escarp]

besides the fact that nothing romantic has been implied between any of them

[spare fox]

there is nothing, NOTHING problematic with shipping Mizuki and Kiriko, this guy is just doing illogical gymnastics to justify his weird resistance to it

[dense garnet]

We're only theorizing based on voice lines ingame that it could be a possibility

It's just speculation, I think that's safe to talk about

[spare fox]

and like, I don't even ship the two of them, but saying it would be incest or like incest is just bizarre

not to mention factually incorrect

[peak escarp]

that's like saying you can't ship Pharah and Cassidy because Ana mentored Cassidy

[spare fox]

it's more like saying you can't ship Pharah and Cassidy because Cassidy knew Ana and learned some things from her

[peak escarp]

so even more distant

[spare fox]

like oh you're dating some dude and he comes over and your dad teaches him to do something - WELP that's incest now

like, come on...

[shrewd pivot]

I don't have a weird resistance to it.
Shipping long lost step siblings is shipping incest dynamics.

If Mizuki is revealed to see Kiriko’s dad as a father figure, then that would be long lost step sibling dynamics.

That is my point.

Idgaf about fandom bc fandom will do whatever and ship all kinds of dark content, igaf about canon making yet another botched romance lol so I hope Mizuki and Kiriko are handled well in writing

[spare fox]

I'm not the biggest shipper out there but the illogical arguments anti-shippers have can get real wild sometimes

[peak escarp]

yet another

[spare fox]

they AREN'T long lost step siblings how do you not understand that

[peak escarp]

such as?

[shrewd pivot]

Well, Pharah says she sees Cassidy like a brother outright, and Pharah is a lesbian. So shipping Pharah and Cassidy would be completely ignoring canon lol

[peak escarp]

okay bad example

but it was the first mentor relationship that came to mind

[edgy meadow]

all of this is solved if instead of creating ships we discuss everyone's favorite food

[spare fox]

a mentor's adult child and a mentor's adult mentee don't have power dynamics, especially if the mentor's child and mentee didn't even know each other as children, either

[dense garnet]

Jetpack Cat's my favorite food

[shrewd pivot]

I am not an anti-shipper.
I just want dark content to be tagged properly in fandoms so it can be avoided (respecting boundaries), and commonly it isn't.
If its au it's whatever bc a reinterprtation changes things.

But like, it's like how Widowmaker x Tracer in ow1 was super popular to the point people wanted it... canon??? I am SO glad Tracer x Emily is the canon ship instead bc it works better for canon. I want romances to be well written, even if its unhealthy dynamics it can still be well written to show character growth (Mauga and Baptiste were written as "bad exes" by the writer so i personally take that as canon that Mauga and Baptiste were canonically bad exes). I don't want another Mercy romance blunder for overwatch canon.

[spare fox]

none of that has to do with Mizuki and Kiriko tho. There's no dark content there if they're shipped, there's nothing problematic other than the stuff you're making up in order to make it problematic

[edgy meadow]

to actually address this seriously, this entire conversation feels like its jumping too far ahead for us to be reasonably concerned that kiri/mizu, freja/emre, and other ships will or will not happen.

[spare fox]

idk where you're getting this tagging content stuff either

[edgy meadow]

right now we're just chasing around our own tails

[spare fox]

nah just Ultra is claiming things are canon when they're not (Toshiro being Mizuki's adoptive father)

or long lost step father or whatever

[shrewd pivot]

Actually perfect example:
In overwatch 1, Zenyatta lore wasn't very clear so fans shipped Zenyatta and Genji with the assumption Zenyatta met Genji as a traveling guru and both learned from eachother (aka not a strict mentor student thing). That's chill, nothing inherently off there.

In overwatch 2, it is clear that Zenyatta and Genji have a platonic only Shishou - Disciple dynamic (culturally, Shishou disciple dynamics are strictly platonic only). I wouldn't call Zenyatta a father figure to Genji or anything like that, but it's strictly platonic now in ow2 canon.

[shrewd pivot]

It's my experience with most fandoms through the years, people don't tag things properly.

It's frustrating as a fan of canon when most of the fandom does not tag properly thus I have to sift through fandom flanderizing Ramattra into "mecha-||Hitler||" or ooc Ramattra being romantic with his platonic only dynamics like Mondatta or Zenyatta.

[wooden drift]

What are we arguing about now?

[shrewd pivot]

No arguments

People are just getting feathers ruffled

[wooden drift]

If I see you writing huge paragraphs im guessing its arguing

Sry

[spare fox]

yeah i don't get this whole tangent either, I'm not even arguing with that

[shrewd pivot]

Nah I just word things long

[merry mason]

Vio is people

[spare fox]

I'm just saying that Kiriko and Mizuki aren't long lost siblings, adoptive or step or whatever

which apparently is ruffling this guy's feathers

[wooden drift]

Wow, some people want to get offended by some stuff sometimes

[shrewd pivot]

Not at all, I'm chill. I feel like my longer worded responses get misread as aggressive. I am fully chill, just explaining my thoughts clearly.

[edgy meadow]

just give me more meka and gwishin lore

what was up with the tease on busan

i need to kow

[dense garnet]

I just had a thought

[median orchid]

Truest words in this century

[edgy meadow]

fuck all that shipping and fanfic bullshit

[dense garnet]

Why doesn't Kiriko find it suspicious that Mizuki has anima tech

[spare fox]

I'm sure we'll get that explanation in his story

that's got to be coming out in the next few weeks

[spare fox]

Electric pulse bomb incoming for the gwishin

[merry mason]

Ok what’s anima tech did they finally explain Japanese magic

[spare fox]

yeah it's not magic, it's anima tech

[merry mason]

Even kirikos?

[spare fox]

yup

and "explained" being what it is in soft sci-fi, really

[merry mason]

🥳🥳🥳

[spare fox]

but it's not magic, just like the writers have been saying all along

[median orchid]

Well thats one less loose end to argue about

[merry mason]

So what is it

[median orchid]

No more people ranting about Kiriko and magic bs when it has an actual explanation in canon

[brittle sky]

do we? has the fox been linked to anima tech?

[wooden drift]

Nuh, there's not much fanfiction about overwatch, tbh

[median orchid]

I think they meant the spicy / strange kind

[wooden drift]

Not even spicy

[brittle sky]

notably mizuki said 'toshiro said his daughter was blessed by the fox spirit' not 'toshiro said his daughter used fox related anima tech'

[dense garnet]

It's basically hardlight with AI from what we understand

[spare fox]

it's basically a sci-fi version of the HP patronus spell

[shrewd pivot]

Sorry I feel compelled to state my point clearly: Again, it's not actually one to one, just like how Kiriko isn't one to one a real niece to Hanzo and Genji.

It's the dynamic of platonic familial found family, subtext is suggesting it for Mizuki, based on the context of all other lore about Kiriko’s mom and dad.

It seems we disagree about subtext. All I am saying is that it will not be suprising if Mizuki is later revealed to see Kiriko’s dad as a parental figure, just like how Hanzo saw Kiriko’s mom as a parental figure.
I will drop the topic now.

[spare fox]

no, we don't disagree about subtext, you're making subtext up and claiming it's canon, that's what I'm taking an issue with

[merry mason]

Come on man we were having a good time yapping about anima why bring back the inscest

Let’s just forget about it for now

[median orchid]

The Overwatch lore community not beefing with each other challenge: Impossible

[shrewd pivot]

We disagree about subtext.
I use inference to pull out canon implications for lore (foreshadowing etc). Others are more so explicit canon followers, I respect that outlook.

[shrewd pivot]

Not bringing that topic back at all.

[spare fox]

I wouldn't really call it beefing or anything, it's really just this guy just keeps bringing the same incorrect thing up over and over again

[median orchid]

When did Incest even become a part of the lore chat lol?

This ain't Alabama

Did I like miss something?

[shrewd pivot]

I brought back up the topic of Mizuki subtext, but not the prior convo. It's no worries Nexu

[winged scaffold]

I thought mizuki was on talon’s side

[median orchid]

He aint on anyones side yet

He is sort of in the between

[winged scaffold]

he’s shown fighting for overwatch though in the art on the event tab

[median orchid]

Yeah, its likely a teaser of him changing sides

[merry mason]

I just hope he doesn’t go good the first chance he gets

[spare fox]

I think he will, I mean he doesn't seem to like the Hashimoto, only afraid of them

[merry mason]

Yeah I expect it I just wish I’m wrong

[spare fox]

it's not like he can just peace out of the Hashimoto, but OW would give him a safe place to go

[winged scaffold]

Is he supposed to be the kappa yokai guy they teased long ago, or its a completely different person

[wooden drift]

Different people

[merry mason]

But what ever comic or animation features him first will have him decide on the two and he’ll instantly choose the good guys

At least give us a little will he won’t he

[spare fox]

yeah I'm afraid that just isn't his story

[brittle sky]

that's baseless speculation trying to find a sci fi explanation

[spare fox]

he just is a good guy caught in a bad situation

it's not like Mauga - a bunch of people are speculating that he's gonna defect and join the junkers

who are also up the air like what are they gonna do?

[shrewd pivot]

Seems to be a different character. Unless the Yōkai gang imagine is simply retconned as out if time order, that omnic Kappa seems to be a different character from Mizuki.

[brittle sky]

yokai in general seem to have lost their omnic members, or at least no subsequent media has included omnics

[wise grotto]

Pretty sure the ow recruitment video showed them a bit

[brittle sky]

is it just from the one original image?

[wise grotto]

Not the kappa one but at least one of em

[shrewd pivot]

#RamattraWasRight /j

I will be sad if overwatch veers more away from omnic's stories/impact in the world. The trenchcoat omnic gives me hope tho

[spare fox]

well a ton of them just got subjegated and kidnapped so that's why there are fewer around

[brittle sky]

the fact that one character definitely seems an omnic, it's quite possible for the far left character to be an omnic, and the iceland map might center a slain robot or omnic as its centerpiece

[brittle sky]

woulda been nice to see enough of them that such matters are actually tangible

[spare fox]

huh?

[merry mason]

It’s not like there was there was that much yokai media afterwards, and even then there was only 2-3 at a time

[dense garnet]

It's pretty much the only speculation that makes sense as of now

Unless they wanna delve into souls and say that souls and ki isn't considered magic

[brittle sky]

the manga and the yokai short story consistently show and tell the story of human members and have shown nothing of the omnics

[shrewd pivot]

Yep! Super hype

Please leftmost design be an omnic and not a cyborg human please please please please 🙏

[dense garnet]

I wanna see an omnic that wants revenge on Null Sedt

Sector

Either way, it's nice to get 2 oddballs this 3 year (3 if you count the meka pilot)

[shrewd pivot]

That is my greatest fear lol. It's like saying "oh, no magic here!" But then you got the philosophers stone alchemy magic.

[shrewd pivot]

2 oddballs? JPC and... Domina bc of her arms?

[brittle sky]

it's an expansive world, maybe something else manifests. I want them to have a scientific or tech explanation too, but I don't think it has to only be some undefined kind of hardlight + some kind of undefined ai

[dense garnet]

I consider omnics to be oddball material

[brittle sky]

I'm dubious on calling any character other than jpc oddball

[shrewd pivot]

Ah ok. That's fair

[dense garnet]

I'm calling anyone that isn't human an oddball because 90% of the roster is human

[wise grotto]

I don’t think omnics are oddballs
Since they’re a fairly standard thing in. The world

[dense garnet]

We have more animal heroes than omnics now

[wise grotto]

Vs a literal cat and giant mech

[shrewd pivot]

Same. Domina's tech arms had potential to be more, but it's not exactly oddball like JPC is lol

[wise grotto]

Maybe not standard in the cast but standard in universe

[merry mason]

Yeah those were the pieces of media I was referring to

[dense garnet]

People say "we want oddballs" when they really mean "we want anjmals"

[brittle sky]

if she was like carried around on a bed of six skuttling robot arms doc oc style... nah she'd still be an inexplicably young executive with a body clearly designed for horndog appeal.

[shrewd pivot]

I think Zenyatta is an oddball bc of his cyber monk "just a guy" jokes, not so much an oddball simply bc he is an omnic. And Ramattra is oddball bc of his robot-rapture arc and nemesis form i suppose.

I wouldn't put Ramattra on oddball catagory like Winston is tho lol

[shrewd pivot]

What could have been.... sniffle

[dense garnet]

Echo is 100% an oddball too

[shrewd pivot]

I want fun designs like Orisa, she's oddball imo especially ow1 baymax personality. More fun body type designs that explore overwatch's scifi settings pls 🙏 that is what is oddball to me

[dense garnet]

And Junkrat

And maybe Hog

[shrewd pivot]

Undeniably Oddball: Winston, Junkrat, Orisa

Echo is conventionally pretty floaty android lady, but still rather oddball, especially in story.

Then again I am a robot fan, so maybe Echo seems less oddball to me bc of that.

[shrewd pivot]

Honestly Domina having 4 or more robot arms doing busy work, with two robot hands having a stylus style drawing animation to showcase her hardlight tech weaving a web like a spider but designing like an architect, it would have expressed all the busy work she does to keep up the facade of perfection.

That, or have her with fully prosthetic legs, implying she is controlling the floating arms with her legs inputs to appear effortless.

[merry mason]

Yeah I feel she could do with another pair of arms

Well she’s got … prosthetic calves

I imagine that’s how she floats

[shrewd pivot]

Seems like armor more than prosthesis imo, but yeah

[merry mason]

Personally I was wishing that the arms would be attached to her body

That would make her an odder ball than she is now

[brittle sky]

definitely seems like we'll see some crazy cool concept art of her in the future that some suit loooked at then pointed to emma frost and say 'okay, but strip out anything that might distract people from this'

(not saying she can't be curvy or sensual in that way, just that the seemed to shun anything that might disrupt that appeal)

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I have a gut feeling Domina's concept ideation probably did more with her tech silhouette

[timber gorge]

oddballs are cool but whens our next cool character. not edgy gimps like mizuko or vendetta but characters with aura like reinhardt

[shrewd pivot]

"Edgy gimps" bahaha that's a great line /genuine

(don't look at Reaper or Tracer concept arts pffft)

I imagine the mech pilot might be cool, or the left most sniper looking character.

[brittle sky]

who are we counting as aura?

like the aura vs edge line is often what sort of cool you respond to

[timber gorge]

hmm good q

doom had aura

until he lost to a kid he shouldnt have lost to so easily

sigma has aura but in a scary dont touch me way

soldier, cass, genji, widow, ana, iiidk about zarya for me i dont think ive seen enough

but id say those have aura

[wise grotto]

Imma Be honest sigma has always seemed like the old senile man character csuse he kinda is

[dense garnet]

Ana has a ton of aura

[wise grotto]

And ill be honest doom had more aura when he want doing nothing

Wasn’t

[dense garnet]

They didn't make Juno scared of Fika in their interactions

Day ruined

[brittle sky]

sounds like aura comes from action as much as baseline appearance. So maybe just seeing people do cool stuff in cool ways will graduate them to aura

[spring agate]

yeah acting cool can only get you so far, you have to actually be reasonably capable/ have big moments of success

and dont lose too often

being annoying is the opposite. if youre unlikable it doesnt matter how well you perform

[brittle sky]

man the whole 'doom is doing nothing' is purely the product of them taking forever to tell the story. Not his fault they didn't do anything with it. Some bull that they try to throw him under the bus when what he did was throw a guy off a bridge, stir some shit in numbani, then make an alliance that perfectly did a faux global crisis the way he wants to test humanity.

[brittle sky]

Honestly, I think winning/losing is overrated for cultivating aura. Doom losing to winston was more impressive and gave a better sense of his character than Vendetta winning every fight she gets put in.

[spring agate]

yeah but even if youre cool, losing too often will get you slander. ask jjk fans

not that you can never lose, just not all the time

[brittle sky]

I mean shonen fans in general kind of reduce character and story to just like... title fight score cards sometimes.

[dense garnet]

Vegeta has a ton of aura despite never winning a fight

[timber gorge]

i agree!

[wise grotto]

Less taking forever and more
Last team had him doing nothing during nullsector instead of doing something stole tech from ramm and nothing else
And then they disapeared as a writing team afterwards

He didn’t actually use the bull sector invasion to do anything else except try it stealthily backstab his Allyn

This fight still geniunely seems more like doomfist setting up a MUCH larger increase in conflict without having himself at the helm of said conflict though

And like vendetta had just recklessly attacked and changed a ton to create a shit Tom of conflict for talon

[brittle sky]

I mean as funding NS goes, gets doom what he wants pretty perfectly. Showing up and punching guys on either side would just weaken the effect.

Like again, his goal is to throw humanity into crucibles to strengthen them against existential crises (set aside the efficacy and morality of that for a sec)

[wise grotto]

And who’s caused by far the most chaos and has outright declared war who’s reckless and going to push this war over and over again until there’s no way for them to function

Vendetta
She’s not smart enough to see the consequences of actions just sees the actions and does them

[brittle sky]

Something that hits global populations like the omnic crisis, and seems like the omnic crisis, and forces people to respond lik the omnic crisis, but the actual danger to humans is relatively low (it caused mayhem and mass casualties absolutely, but the intention was never to drive down or wipe out human populations) because it's really about forcibly putting hats on omnic populations within those.

It's like the cowpox of omnic crises.

[dense garnet]

I feel like people have been writing off Vendetta's intelligence when we see in comics that she's very much an intelligent individual and in some ways a better negotiator than Doomfist

[wise grotto]

Like vendettas actions hsve perfectly filled in the ideological way doomfist often looked at things it’s almost less likely that it WASNT hit intention to lose

[brittle sky]

She doesn't seem interested in things that actual test. Her stated goal is order, what other people are calling tyranny. She doesn't want to fight worthy foes. She wants to smash anyone who might be a threat to her power and... presumably like run an actual empire? How she expects to make a territorial or even logistical domain seems wild to me.

[dense garnet]

I think Vendetta is gonna want absolute control over territories like Rome and such. Basically conquering Europe

[wise grotto]

She’s not great with understanding the consequences
Her doing this kept ow the main people who’d stop her as a requirement and stopped them from being shut down
She lost 3 of the best soldiers talon could ever have especially sombra and her information
She’s smart yes but consequences seem to be piling up in the background slowly

At some point they’re gonna come crashing down and she’s gonna lose these flimsier alliances she’s made

[brittle sky]

ehhhh the comics likely mean to be that, but their intention to make her seem invincible and indominable undercut that. Good negotiators don't just make demands and go on the attack. They consider what people want, convince them they're getting exactly what they want, all while massaging it to terms you like.

[wise grotto]

Doomfist had loyalties vendetta has conditions

[dense garnet]

I think her wanting to stop OW before they could act was the smart play

Nipping the bud before it grows

[wise grotto]

Ow would have been shut down

[dense garnet]

OW wouldn't care lol

[wise grotto]

This is shooting the gardener before he picks the weeds out

[dense garnet]

They'd just be vigilantes again

[wise grotto]

And be much less capable of doing anything about what she’s doing if they where

They’d be less of a threat

She created a threat by attacking Overwatch

[brittle sky]

Both vested interest and upper hand make it seem like she came out of negotiations where she had all the power on terms that the other guy wanted more than her. In the name of making her seem untouchable she feels very brittle

[wise grotto]

Now Overwatch can recruit@more and grow

[dense garnet]

She know that Overwatch interference is inevitable, and a surprise attack would've theoretically killed many strong operatives

But the plot demands no one dies

[wise grotto]

I mean yea the only trick is nobody can die

[brittle sky]

and the UN could and would shut them down as soon as there wasn't a crisis justifying their presence and distracting actual governments

[wise grotto]

But getting captured is pretty much ows losing a fight

[dense garnet]

As soon as Vendetta tries to sieze control, OW will just reactivate again

[wise grotto]

Ow will now continue to grow instead of stay limited

[dense garnet]

OW getting shut down ultimately means nothing

[wise grotto]

They’ll have funding and support

They’ll be stronger then they would be as a bunch of independent fighters

[brittle sky]

And they'd be even more poorly organized and unlikely to get logistics and assistance since they were coming from disorganization and being actively watchdogged by the UN rather than just coming off crisis response with a reorganized internal structure

[dense garnet]

OW was never going to be independent. The UN will always reactivate OW if a threat like Talon or Null Sector emerges

[wise grotto]

Vendetta ultimately made ow stronger by trying to weaken them

[brittle sky]

but they didn't

[clever iris]

What sides do you guys reckon the other smaller factions will take? obviously the deadlock gang is currently sided with Talon but what about JQ, Roadhog, Junkrat, etc

[wise grotto]

Except when null sector showed up the UN didn’t reactivate them and didn’t plan on doing so

[brittle sky]

we've had crises and they didn't. They even told OW to sit back or they'd get brought up on charges

[wise grotto]

They UN actually was mad at ow after null sectors invasion initially and threatened charges because of how illegal it was

[dense garnet]

That wasn't in the cards because many operatives went into hiding or living normal lives, at least in their eyes

[wise grotto]

Except the recall was a while before the null sector invasion

[brittle sky]

Junkers won't go to overwatch, but there's 50/50 odds Mauga persuades JQ to be a useful idiot for Talon or the mere overture pisses off JQ enough she decides to just wreck everything, Talon included.

[wise grotto]

Where the UN was now keeping an eye on them because of the recall Winston did

[dense garnet]

Vendetta had a smart plan, it just didn't go the way she wanted. At best, she probably destroyed Gibraltar to the point of it being an unuseable base of operations

[wise grotto]

So no they didn’t think ow was still a bunch of people hiding or living normally lives

[clever iris]

Yeah but for some reason I have a nagging feeling that Roadhog actually has strong morals which haven’t yet been shown in the lore

[dense garnet]

OW refusing to kill off its playable characters just makes the bad guys be at a disadvantage 100% of the time

[clever iris]

I could see hog temporarily siding with Overwatch to protect the junkers from talon

[wise grotto]

That goes both ways
None of the bad guys will die or the good guys

[dense garnet]

Would Hog really care

[sand veldt]

What is emres other form?

[wise grotto]

Hog would only care if junkrat does

[brittle sky]

Roadhog and Junkrat would not necessarily go along witht he larger Junkers. They are exiles from Junkertown, have active (if infrequently enforced) bounties set by the Queen, and generally are antagonistic to her.

[sand veldt]

The one where he looks like a sun spirit

[dense garnet]

I feel like JQ wouldn't join Talon, but they might use Talon to further her own ends

[wise grotto]

Chernobog taking over him

[brittle sky]

They're certainly willing to pretend more for the baddies.

[sand veldt]

No but seriously though

[edgy meadow]

vendetta wouldnt allow it

[clever iris]

True idk but it would be nice to see some depth into the characters except for just what we see right now, especially for the characters that aren’t that active in the lore

[wise grotto]

That’s it

[clever iris]

hog is a brutal mercenary and outlaw sure, but there’s gotta be more than just that under his belly rolls of fat

[wise grotto]

The Finnish god ai

[brittle sky]

Direct control from the mysterious entity that puppets him, hypothesized to be some fragment or form of the decommissioned God AI of global security chernobog

[dense garnet]

I think he's gonna stay one-dimensional and that's fine. Not everyone needs to be complex

[wise grotto]

It’s both referenced in lore regarding him and the only Finnish thing in lore and one scary mf thing like most the god ais

[clever iris]

makes sense I’m just biased because I main hog lol

[sand veldt]

Oh damn that’s sick

[clever iris]

still be interesting to see where this current story goes though

[wise grotto]

Yea he cares about junkrat
They’re best friends they aren’t much more complicated

[dense garnet]

I think the major players of the conspiracy arc when that rolls in will be Emre, Freja, Sombra, Soldier, Illari, and Venture

[clever iris]

the interactions in-game probably reveal a lot more as well

[brittle sky]

I think wasted land gives space that he'd likely back any sort of hare-brained face turn from Junkrat, or stand up to Junker Queen if she ever moves into active antagonism against the old guard of Junker society. He's already not quite one dimensional.

[dense garnet]

I think it would be cool if we got a 2nd Omnic Crisis somehow

Imagine Anubis reawakens and takes control of someone or an Omnic but completely, and they get added as a playable hero but they are the main antagonist for re-initating the Omnic Crisis. Creating a bunch of lifeless omnic husks from reactivated Omniums

[brittle sky]

Personally I thin the implication the Junker ecology might just be scrapped for parts to throw at MEKA or Overwatch would be a pit (at least if that's all they do with it) rather than develop it out to a story with its own internal heroes and villains in the way the Shimada ecology and maybe now the Deadlock ecology seem to be with upcoming seasons.

[brittle sky]

ehhhhh, a morally simple 'shoot the clankers' arc feels like it's something not particularly interesting. Null Crisis already did a (somewhat) more interesting version of that where rather than Anubis it was Ramattra with specific principles and goals other than wiping out humanity.

[wise grotto]

Honestly if anubis gets out he wouldn’t be able to take over robots the same way I’d imagine

[dense garnet]

I just want a character that I can infuse Ultron into

Anubis is the closest

[shrewd pivot]

If anything, Chernobog god ai being more of an insidious organizer threat instead of Anubis as a direct open threat would be more interesting as a basis for a reviet of another rogue ai antagonist

[wise grotto]

He’d have to go much more similar to chernobogs route

[brittle sky]

If god ai turn out to be full anthropomorphized, if Anubis gets out I'd rather him be just a shitty wash up as opposed to a someone we need to reckon with. Like omnicide is such a boring MO.

[dense garnet]

I want all the God AI's playable lol

[wise grotto]

Anubis would kinda be he hasn’t had time to adapt to the 10+ years of advancing technology and security specifically cause of HIM he’s still in able to escape his cage Nevermind take over the world

[dense garnet]

What if Anubis is a reverse of Emre where the character is using Anubis' powers but Anubis has no say over it

[brittle sky]

Honestly, if you want a threat that's like a 'gathering a cult to my ends', Xibalba is your better bet. He even has a cult ready to go.

[shrewd pivot]

Iirc anubis escaped and began hacking an omnic that self deleted in Pharah's comic.

Bc of that, it seems like Anubis ai escaping would result in hacking awakened omnics

[wise grotto]

I can see anubis taking over like a random old ass robot afyer breaking out but not having much more he’s capable of

[wise grotto]

Oh
Well yea then story wise anubis should just stay gone then

[brittle sky]

It tried to break out, overrode some local omnics and/or drones. The one omnic squaddie who could feel it did off themselves before it seized control.

[dense garnet]

If Noir is Anubis controlling an Omnic somehow I'm gonna freak lmao

[dry pebble]

Ram obliterating that robot

[wise grotto]

Oh yea definitely

[brittle sky]

Okay but like, that'd be like if the captical D Devil or the Gnostic Demiurge manifested as a dude. That would be incredibly funny, but humans would hate him, and omnics would hate him worse.

[shrewd pivot]

#RamattraWasRight (Ramattra wants Anubis deleted)
Like, I still wonder what the point is in keeping Anubis online if its such a danger. Especially if other god ais were shut down.

[dry pebble]

Also like isn't Ow is way more stronger than it is before by the fact there's so much more of recruits under its faction now

[wise grotto]

and Moira would want him

[dry pebble]

D.V.A, Echo, Lucio

[brittle sky]

Not really. Her interest is in biological stuff like the SEP

[dry pebble]

I doubt Vendetta could even take the OW out before Sigma ends up killing her

[wise grotto]

She’s shown interest in experimenting on zenyatta

[brittle sky]

I think it's possible the other god ais shut down purely because they either did so willingly or weren't ready for shutdown procedures. We know Anubis' first act was to quietly murder its handlers, fortified its infrastructure, and would not comply with shutdown orders.

[brittle sky]

Sure, but as part of her larger project of ending death. Omnic and digital experimentation would be a diversion or a complete shakeup to her.

[sand veldt]

Is it explained how Emre got bonded to the god ai

[brittle sky]

No, though it's established he has a bunch of cybernetics installed. Presumably a little similar to sombra some of his cybernetics interface with his nervous system, but rather than like Sombra where she uses it to control machines it goes the other way

[shrewd pivot]

Right! And i know humans could keep Anubis online as of now to study Anubis, but the threat just seems too large to keep online. One slip and Anubis takes over the world again. I think the logical thing to do would be to delete Anubis, so I wonder what the real reasons are for just containing Anubis instead.

[dry pebble]

Not yet, but there are speculations

Most strongly reason being conspiracy

[dry pebble]

This reminded me of the scene from inside job where they captive rogue android president in a tube to contain him

[brittle sky]

Most appealing version of the conspiracy to me would be powerful groups just vivisecting and exploiting pieces of the god ais to cement their control of the status quo, rather than have a god ai themself the mastermind.

[dry pebble]

True, that's what i also theorised of

Trying to benefit from Chernobog

But i honestly also want to see the scene from the perspective of Chernobog

There's only one line of the AI is stated and max we can tell is that the AI, Chernobog was pretty much harmless. I'd like to believe he tries to work with Emre to disconnect under the pressure of Conspiracy group.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I am guessing it will be an 'illuminati' type group conspiracy trope with individuals using the god ai to maintain power, or a skynet/AM type conspiracy trope with Chernobog gaining sapience and enacting a doomed future plan.

[dry pebble]

But to be honest one of the things i don't like about Emre is that there is barely any lines that exists with him and Overwatch mercs

Like there is just with Cassidy and no one else for some reason even he is takes part in Golden Years picture

They just be using him for Freja? For some reason

[wise grotto]

Most of them don’t know he’s alive yet I figure they’ll do more when he becomes impactful to the lore of the other characters they prolly don’t wanna spoil the reaction they have

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, I would have expected Emre to have noncanon spawnroom lines with Reinhardt and Torbjörn considering white dome

[brittle sky]

to be fair they just don't seem to be prioritizing getting voicelines to those who aren't going to be in the immediate gibraltar v. talon conflict

[wise grotto]

I figure they have them recorded before the conflict and after the conflict they’ll start having them happen

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah future seasons will probably bring in more interactions for Emre in regards to og overwatch relations

[brittle sky]

and who knows, rein might not survive long enough to form opinions on emre's return.

[dry pebble]

Right

At least we have gotten interaction with Cassidy for what's worth

[dry pebble]

Where does this speculation forms from

[fathom grove]

Yeah lack of Emre reactions is definitely because I don't think anybody but Freja and Talon know he's- y'know, alive and doing stuff

[brittle sky]

oh mostly joking but invasion was clearly setting up reinhardt for a fatal arc, his quixotic personality and 'old hero not slowing down despite getting up in years' inevitably ending to things catching up with him, and the pretty compelling theory that the 'crown' Brigitte was shown as having in early ow2 material wass a tribute to Reinhardt after his fall.

[dry pebble]

Crazy

But i doubt OW is up to kill Reinhardt that easily

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, there were actual rumors Reinhardt was going to be killed off in pve too

[dry pebble]

Cause i don't want another Lol lore incident especially with Ow

Where writers can't continue and develop story without killing someone

[dry pebble]

But i honestly think this might actually might occur

Considering the fact they have been trying to keep up with story much as possible

Vendetta going to be the first hero to be killed in Lore i assume

If not by Doom, then perhaps Sigma

His new interaction easily presents the fact people like Sombra wasnt around to cool him and he is highly mad sounding upon eliminating Vendetta in game

[brittle sky]

I mean I think they'll pull the trigger on him at some point. I'd be surprised if he went down in the gibraltar attack - he'd be down for a big sacrifice, but don't imagine he'd do that to a bunch of nameless talon grunts.

[dry pebble]

I agree

He should die with glory

[brittle sky]

sure (and then give brigitte her crown)

[dry pebble]

I won't want my main die this soon tho

[dry pebble]

Crown could be like

Half part of Reinhardt helmet i presume

To give more hint of the character

[brittle sky]

It very much was

[dry pebble]

But i honestly doubt if her having top part of Rein's helmet as crown was trying to Hint the fact he was going to be killed in the lore

[brittle sky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/ybtd51/brigitte_was_supposed_to_have_a_crown_in_her/

I mean it's that or they just made her design less distinct and interesting for aesthetic reasons

first image is photoshotp I think, but second and third are in game info

[dry pebble]

Like i'm not saying i don't believe in it. But its looks more like a heritage going from father to daughter as for the tribute of old times

[shrewd pivot]

(Looks at Hazard) wellllllllll /j

[dry pebble]

I think she designing her armor more akin to Reinhardt also provides that

[spring agate]

does roadhog have lore besides being a mercenary in australia and being the shrek to junkrat's donkey

[dense garnet]

Why is Fika almost as tall as Lucio

What is Brigitte feeding her cats

[dense garnet]

Mako was part of the ALF. They were basically an anti-omnic rebel group that was formed because the Australian government gifted the Omnics the Omnium and its surrounding areas. Many Australians weren't happy with this, Mako included, and he alongside the ALF blew up the Omnium that basically turned the outback into an irradiated wasteland. It also disfigured his face.

So basically you can blame Mako for the outback being the way it is

[spring agate]

Masked characters being disfigured underneath is a great trope

[brittle sky]

Ex alf (part of a militia/terror group from the sparsely populated Australian outback that after the government have some of the Outback around the omnium to the local omnics did a terrorism about it until they blew up the omnium), has a history with the junker group called the wreckers (either demolition or some kinda violence), lived on a farm outside junker town, an has a bit of a reputation. Alf vets are seen as a dying breed, jq has a mixed relationship with them (seems to respect them as her parents were alf, but also an antagonism because the old junker regime that exiled her family was led by a junker, and per speculation of a character in wasted land - Alf vets are more independent, coming from survivalists, meaning they don't fall in line as readily as new generation of junkers raised in the clannish and hierarchal junker culture)

[brittle sky]

Disfigured isn't explicit, just common speculation.

[dense garnet]

Ah, I just know it says so in his wiki I think

[brittle sky]

Wiki often speculates or often hallucinates

[peak escarp]

the wiki is unverified information written by the communuty

[azure flint]

so whats up with the echo emre voice lines after she finishes his ult

just copying him or is something actually happening to her also?

[cerulean fern]

What happens

They should make a character combining Adhabu, Akande, and the Doomfist that Akande stole the gauntlet from

All their souls in one character arguing with each other

The ult could be one that visual confuses people

Visually

[dense garnet]

Echo duplicating Chernobog without realizing it

People speculate that Chernobog possesses her but I think she's just copying Chernobog without knowing it's a God AI, so she feels uncomfortable after it

God the new lore bits they keep adding is so good

This is what ow2 should've been

[wise grotto]

Widow and syms kill lines for domina are so good csuse they’re both
Super skilled in very intricate ways
And also
Are both modelled after a form of dance for there design
Both insult domina during there kill lines because she’s truthfully very clumsy and lazy with how she does things it’s why she doesn’t do anything herself most of the time

[azure flint]

also this is pretty cool also

adding all these lines for an ult that lasts a few secs

[bold fern]

:((

[shrewd pivot]

Just saw a voiceline with Mizuki and Sombra. Saying that Mizuki isn't telling the whole truth.

Is Mizuki integrated with the Yōkai group currently? I thought he wasn't yet and was going to? If Mizuki is currently integrated then dang pardon to that person i said it's impossible to prior, yeah that Kappa omnic might possibly be meant to be Mizuki....

[broken eagle]

Sigma is gaining sentience

[cosmic sigil]

I think she is saying that just because he is still in Hashimoto while being in Yokai as a spy, but hes taken a liking to Yokai, so he hasn’t done anything.

[remote wing]

what’s sombra’s goal? like she knows everyone’s secrets to blackmail them for what?

[shrewd pivot]

She wants to uncover the eye conspiracy so she can take control. She wants to know who pulls the strings so she can pull them herself.

[remote wing]

wait i thought that that was talon

or is like eye evil organization a separate evil organization

[wooden drift]

New voice lines that they added are so good

[edgy meadow]

he's already in the yokai group

we know this for certain bc theres an interaction between mizuki and kiriko where mizuki tells kiri to warn one of the other yokai to not go into hashimoto territory alone

and kiri's all warm and giggling about it, they already know each other

what's yet to come is the inevitable clash of having to choose if he's with the clan or yokai

[remote wing]

im kinda obsessed with the idea that there are a bunch of evil overwatch orgd run by the secret evil organization talon which is run by a even more secret and evil org