lore-discussion

[crystal saffron]

to open door

[keen summit]

But what ifit doesn't open, as an obstacle blocks it

[iron vigil]

i do wonder if she is attacking overwatch because she knows they had something to do with her dad's death maybe

[keen summit]

Maybe, maybe not

[crystal saffron]

does she know anything abt her dad's death

[keen summit]

It could be to make a statement saying "YOUR HEROES ARE DEAD"

[iron vigil]

but like reyes tho...

is like

right there

[wise grotto]

Vendetta wanted to prove herself immediately as a strong leader by attacking the main opposition

[crystal saffron]

if she knows it why didnt she slime reaper instead of doom

[wise grotto]

Because reaper isn’t there leader

And isn’t as strong worldwide

[crystal saffron]

im asking abt if vendetta knows who killed her father

[keen summit]

Her whole marketing is "where are your herors now" "you wanted a hero?"

So she'd eant to kill overwatch to show the world that their heroes are dead

Theres no hope

[iron vigil]

yeah but he was the one that did kill him tho

[keen summit]

No future

[edgy tree]

Vendetta knows Reaper killed her dad

[crystal saffron]

he was the one who shot him

[keen summit]

Think thats more likely

[iron vigil]

does she?

[crystal saffron]

actually only he shot him

[crystal saffron]

why didnt she slime reaper already?

[iron vigil]

this another thing in the comic? 😔

[keen summit]

Cuz this is more her style

[edgy tree]

yep in her interraction she forgives him for it

[iron vigil]

oh see

[edgy tree]

saying he deserved it

[wise grotto]

We don’t know if she does it’s implied
Regardless of if she does or doesn’t however killing him over doom doesn’t get her anywhere except attacked by talon in full force
And also doesn’t get her anywhere except attacked power is what she wanted

[iron vigil]

i haven't played this update

[crystal saffron]

didnt she like his dad?? 😭

[edgy tree]

Reaper did NOT tell her anything mind you

she just knew

[iron vigil]

then what was her whole rant about revenge about?

[crystal saffron]

Guess failure runs in the family. (eliminating Vendetta)

[edgy tree]

though ig you could explain it with Maxes chip now

[edgy tree]

Talon taking everything away from her

it wasn't necessarily about her dad dying just that she was left with nuthin

[crystal saffron]

reaper helped alot talon taking everything from her and forgive reaper

[wise grotto]

Black watch I’m sure had way more people who knew about the very incident that ruined Overwatch reputation then just those 4

[crystal saffron]

hmm

[wise grotto]

He was still Reyes apart of black watch back then

[iron vigil]

well, it would have been nice to see those struggles

[edgy tree]

Reaper didn't really do much

[iron vigil]

i mean a picture by picture backstory video or something

[edgy tree]

He joined Talon a LONG time after killing her dad

[crystal saffron]

didnt he shoot him after ignoring what cass/his squad told him

[wise grotto]

After he died it was VERY fast how stuff was stolen from her reaper wouldn’t have even been on that council
Max and Mauga are the only ones likelt to have worked there back then and that’s unlikely

[crystal saffron]

because he kinda got angry

[wise grotto]

While he was apart of black watch yes

Same with Moira

Neither where on talon for a decent period of time afterwards

[edgy tree]

Talon was gonna take everything from her no matter how her dad was removed from Talon

[crystal saffron]

so she just killed doom for power?

[wise grotto]

Yep

[crystal saffron]

zamn

[edgy tree]

she defeated* him

[crystal saffron]

yea defeated

[wise grotto]

She didn’t actually kill him though that much is hinted at aggressively

[edgy tree]

he wasn't shown to be ded so he's fine

[crystal saffron]

he will reappear with meteor strike

[wise grotto]

Yea

[crystal saffron]

fr

[edgy tree]

doesn't he kinda.... need his fist for that

[wise grotto]

The big great writing trope of “I didn’t see no body so you didn’t kill no bitches”

[crystal saffron]

uhh idk

but ow usually shows their dead body

if someone dies for sure

[wise grotto]

The running theory I have is doomfist wanted conflict tk make Overwatch and talon and himself grow cause of the new Overwatch team and talon having been about the same for a while

So he ignored vendetta and just didn’t care mucb during the fight because the more arrogant she stayed the more@bold she would be while ruling

There’s no confirmation of this but imo this seems like it would make sense

[iron vigil]

maybe my hate for this new direction and this sudden drop of characters is making me just ignore lore because i'm just kinda fed up with overwatch. I'll probably take some time to actually learn about her more before i keep judging her.

[crystal saffron]

so he was acting to get defeated

in ur theory

[wise grotto]

This fight was really really quick even to me I would have liked an extra minute or two of fighting

[iron vigil]

i just wish they did things like before, i don't like the new teams way of doing things

[wise grotto]

Yea

[crystal saffron]

maybe cinematics team ran out of budget

[wise grotto]

I mean this team wasn’t given a lot of time to do more things

They haven’t even been there for more then 6 months yet

And had a huge project to achieve

They got hired back In December or November as a full team to focus on lore

[crystal saffron]

whats jetpack cat's faction

[wise grotto]

One of brigs pet cats a stray they found on gibraltr

[iron vigil]

yeah but i wouldn't have minded waiting but they were also doing a ton of lay offs, firing, and i think company switching

[crystal saffron]

oh hes just brigs pet?

with machine

and high iq(maybe)?

[wise grotto]

The layoffs are why this lore stuff was so rushed
The new team they JUST hired had to do things quicker to keep up with the set in stone timeline for seasons they had

[iron vigil]

jus been playing this game since release and you get tired of being disappointed

[wise grotto]

Because Microsoft fucked them over and laid off the whole other team

Microsoft is kinda at least partially to@blame@for the entire rushed part of it they unironically forced the whole team to essentially restart with the same deadline

[wise grotto]

Nope it’s just a cat playing witb a toy drone he has it’s not even capable of hurting people in lore

[iron vigil]

alright that's fair, i can't blame them for that

[wise grotto]

For it being what’s Essentially a borderlands3 level writing team redo I’d say they did a good job with the only issue very clearly being they could have had more time

[iron vigil]

but idk, game just needs to have a bit more before i decide i'd like to actually like the game again

[iron vigil]

i mean i guess? for me it's meh but i can see that they're trying

[wise grotto]

Honestly the books and comics have a lot and they’re releasing a TON this year since we’re not doing years as essentially story arcs

So lore is gone from “extra thing we do” to “games actusllt built around the way the lore drops”

[crystal saffron]

can jetpack cat talk

[wise grotto]

No

[edgy tree]

Meows

[wise grotto]

It’s genuinely just a normal cat with a toy

[iron vigil]

i'll just have to see it as this new refresh goes forward

thought about downloading it today to try the new so called talon vs overwatch missions

[wise grotto]

Yea
Those missions don’t come till the new season and I’m pretty sure they’ll be missions possible by just playing the game normally

We don’t actually know though

[iron vigil]

damn welp nvm

[edgy tree]

would be weird for them to have like what 7 unique sets of actual missions every few weeks

they're definitly the "win games" kinda deal

[wise grotto]

Yea that would be insane even for a game designed around those kinda missions

[pastel berry]

What’s up with ram? He team up with anyone or having beef with anyone or just riding solo

[grand wedge]

Ram sidelined himself for now.

He asked Zenyatta to join him but Zen refused.

[civic lynx]

I think they’re just challenges but renamed

The most lore relevance they have is the voice lines and stuff from them might hint at future events

[arctic pecan]

Can any lore players explain why Domina seems to have both arms? I thought vishkar employees have to remove one as a show of loyalty

[spare cliff]

She probably gets special privileges pretty sure she the vice president and not an engineer like sym

[pastel berry]

What’s he’s goal

[arctic pecan]

Huh, i wouldve thought she wpuld have worked her way up and thus had to have it removed anyway, espexially when the higher ranks are way more important to keep loyal

[spare cliff]

Atm we dont have a ton of info on her to know if she got up legitimately or anything like that but since she's aligned with Talon she probably did shady stuff

[keen summit]

Its never been said that you have to

For example lw id implied to never have his arm changed either

[brittle sky]

The arm removal isn't canon but a popular theory, and is already somewhat troubled by LW seeming to just have a gauntlet he can take off.

[keen summit]

His gauntlet is explicitly called a gauntlet

[arctic pecan]

HE CAN REMOVE IT?

[keen summit]

Yes

Its a gauntlet, thats how its been said

[arctic pecan]

Wow i need to reread up on life weavers lore

[brittle sky]

yeah there are multiple images where he has a normal hand (like him taking a trip and seeing that deer)

[keen summit]

Its a niche thing as its mainly shown and mentioned as a gauntlet once

[arctic pecan]

Dang, he should be weary of vendetta then

[keen summit]

Vendetta doesbt care bout him

[brittle sky]

I think that was an arm chopping bit

[keen summit]

I know

[arctic pecan]

It was a joke.... about doomfist now just being fist

[keen summit]

My personal theory is that he made a new one with the power supply they stile

Stole

Cuz we never got answers to what that power source was for

[arctic pecan]

Huh, so vishkar just likes robo arms then... for no reason

[keen summit]

I mean

They work well

• it means they can forcefully take it away

And make them crippled

[arctic pecan]

I know but like... why only arms, why not go full borg, no ganic

[keen summit]

So their employees get more dependent

[keen summit]

That's hard to sell

Id imagine

What do they need the rest for

[arctic pecan]

Idk, i feel like if someones willing to lose an arm for a job, they may as well go all the way

[keen summit]

Thing is telling people they need the arm to shape hardlight is an easy explabation

Why do they need to lose a leg etc

[wise grotto]

The only person we know who has the arm is sym

[pastel berry]

It’s weird how the kid who stole the gauntlet f widow but apparently vendetta cut through it

[wise grotto]

Weavers is a gauntlet

And not his actual arm

[arctic pecan]

Huh, makes sense. Unrelated follow up, what does maximillion provide talon? I always assumed he was the financial backer but if they have vishkar in their pocket why do they need funding

[pastel berry]

iOS

Ops

[wise grotto]

Weaver was a full architect as well so they don’t actually replace the arms of architects

[civic lynx]

Max is still financial as well as (I think plz correct me if im wrong) managing talon’s illegal businesses and black market operations

[keen summit]

Money

[civic lynx]

He’s basically the brains behind how talon gets their money and recourses

[keen summit]

He manages finances

[wise grotto]

Max is as rich as a massive company alone
Vishkar are there to provide tech

[brittle sky]

I mean, multiple revenue streams is good, and someoen who can launder that money for actual use would be good.

[arctic pecan]

I wouldve assumed vishkar would have more resources though? Arent they a megacorp

[arctic pecan]

Ohhh so hes more of a behind tbe scenes money guy?

[civic lynx]

Yes but they are more so working with talon as a joint benefit rather than vishkar just gives vendetta money whenever she wants

Vishkar sees benefit in talon’s war but they won’t just openly hand over money and whatever tech vendetta asks for

[arctic pecan]

Okok, last question... are talon meant to be a secret group? Or like evil interpol? Because they dont seem too secret

[civic lynx]

Max also probably gets loads of other companies and factions to play ball with talon

[arctic pecan]

Oh thats awesome, i hope hes playable one day

[civic lynx]

Doom’s talon was meant to be like it

Vendetta wants talon to be a global threat who will slaughter anyone who stands against them

Her attack on Gibraltar is probably an example of how she will act towards any faction that attempts to stop her

[arctic pecan]

Huh, and talon is just cool with that? I thought at least half of them would bave been loyal to doomfist given his whole "only through conflict" reasoning makes more sense propaganda wise. Tbh ive never gotten how talon has so many footsoldiers while still being a secret

[civic lynx]

Based on the interaction she has with max in the short, talon do not believe in doom’s leadership after null sector failed

[brittle sky]

Those foot soldiers are organized as PMCs

[civic lynx]

They want someone new to take over and deal with OW properly this time rather than waste time farting about with null sector

[brittle sky]

(I mean, problem with that is way pve ended really doesn't make it seem like null sector failed. They got a lot of what they want, and certainly what Null Sector did looks like what Doom would have wanted)

[civic lynx]

Some members (moira) would also be completely unbothered by a change in leadership as long as she is allowed to experiment

[wise grotto]

Moira Mauga are u bothered
Mauga just likes fighting
Moira just wants funding

[arctic pecan]

But wasnt widowmaker so close with doom that vialli tried to kill them both in the assassination?

[brittle sky]

Who knows how the narrative goes, but taking your secret society that always thrived off being covert and subversive and trying to challenge every government in direct open warfare seems like a great way to make your secret organization into a very dead organization.

[civic lynx]

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the start of talon’s downfall in lore

[arctic pecan]

Yeah, i thought doom wanted them to fail to create more conflict

[civic lynx]

Sombra and sigma leaving has been rumoured for years

And Mizuki is clearly going to defect to OW during s1

[arctic pecan]

I thought they were hashimoto?

[civic lynx]

So it could end up with vendetta losing all of her most powerful assets and then doom returns and kills her

[civic lynx]

Hashimoto work directly with talon

[keen summit]

Theyre on ows side in the menu

[brittle sky]

Widow has been stated as being reliant on drugs to both keep her skills sharp and maybe stifle emotions/memories. Max definitely seems to expect that's an effective lever to keep her in line, but the cinematic seems to imply she's one of the people more skeptical or bothered by Vendetta's coup.

[civic lynx]

Vendetta will use the hashimoto for her plan in Japan

But Mizuki will leave

And be influenced by Kiri to join OW

[brittle sky]

Yeah apparently Talon is just recruiting a bunch of local gangs.

[arctic pecan]

I think vendetta wouldve made a better enforcer for talon than a leader, shes battlesmart but it doesnt seem like shes tacticallu smart

[keen summit]

Hashimoto is pretty big rn

[keen summit]

That seems like the point

Tbf

[wise grotto]

Hashimoto are this universes version of the yakuza

[civic lynx]

He fights with Ow during the lore event art so it could be very soon into S1 he defects

[brittle sky]

I think that defection is pretty strongly projected, but it may take longer than immediate. they just wanted to have the promotional art be more balanced. After all, Kiriko hasn't even joined OW at this point.

[arctic pecan]

Oh so theyre like the tyger claws then

[arctic pecan]

I hope so, because vendettas plan didnt seem too... plan like

[civic lynx]

She isn’t and that will be her downfall

[brittle sky]

Decently, but it's a nationally located gang, rather than an international syndicate.

[civic lynx]

Based on the small teasers and hints so far, doom could be revealed to have lived at BlizzCon

And if he did survive he would be plotting to take vendetta down in ways she couldn’t expect

[brittle sky]

I mean there's a very real possibility her whole rise and ascent was a plan by max to get doomfist off his back.

[arctic pecan]

Oh i hope so, maximillion is like my favourite character, hes so smart

[civic lynx]

I think in the book version of the short where she threatens Max there’s a line that says this is the next part of his game

[keen summit]

That or doom wants to use her conflict and fall to start his war

[civic lynx]

He seems to have a long term plan for talon that only temporarily involves vendetta

[brittle sky]

Exactly this, and we know he's been plotting vs. Doom since Pocket King

[arctic pecan]

Ok unrelated question but... is anubis still 'alive' because it seems like thats a really big threat thats just kinda there

[keen summit]

Imagine max eventually leads talon with doom and vendetta under him

[civic lynx]

I’m not the most well knowledged on this but based on throne of Anubis I think he is alive but imprisoned (for now)

[keen summit]

He is alive

[civic lynx]

When you capture the centre point on throne the Anubis thing in the background has glowing red eyes

[brittle sky]

Actually, talon getting their teeth kicked in and scattered, its members all off on their respective routes, then Max just sits back with all the money he ripped out from under them. Bonus points if right as he sits back Doom shows up back from the dead and punts him.

[arctic pecan]

Huh... so the world just trusts helix to defend robosatans prison? Why didnt ram try and free anubis?

[mossy vale]

I’m having trouble understanding why vendetta thinks she’s “owed” something. Is it because her father was one of the original founders? What is her goal anyways??

[brittle sky]

Anubis is alive and in confinement. Seems it is not compliant with whatever attempt to shut down god ais.

[arctic pecan]

Her fathers position was replaced after his death by vialli rather than given to her, she blames doomfust since he gave the order

[mossy vale]

I don’t understand what she wants to do with Talon. What would she gain?

Ah

[civic lynx]

Destroying OW ig?

[eager fog]

Revenge

[civic lynx]

Or world domination

[arctic pecan]

Its her "birthright"

[civic lynx]

Seems to be her end goal

[brittle sky]

Which as doomfist points out, it's very silly to think that role is heritable.

[arctic pecan]

Is she really an overwatch hater? I didnt really see any reason for her to be

[eager fog]

She think she can survive against reaper tho lololo

She ain’t lasting a second

[civic lynx]

She’s mobilised talon’s whole army to destroy Gibraltar and kill the ow members

She wants them gone

[mossy vale]

She just seems like an angsty adult who’s bent on thinking it’s hers

[eager fog]

reaper in lore is damn strong

[arctic pecan]

So was doomfist... now hes just fist

[civic lynx]

The OW members will escape but it shows her goal of getting rid of them so there’s really nothing left to stop her

[keen summit]

She just wanted it, now im guessing with attacking ow trying to scare the world with "your heroes are dead, submit or you are next"

[eager fog]

reaper is stronger than doomfist

[brittle sky]

Okay how do you math that. He literally lost the fist. He'd be just doom.

[eager fog]

Reaper did more crazy things than doomfist did

[mossy vale]

Ahh

[keen summit]

I think she legit wants the world because she thinks "she deserves the world" vendettas main trait is her pride

[arctic pecan]

He still has a fist! Just not the doom one!

[mossy vale]

Yeah I can’t believe they just nuked doomfist like that. He got his ahh beat and I remember he took on primal Winston and such

[keen summit]

The issue was that he was made an idiot here

[mossy vale]

I think her pride will be her eventual downfall

[arctic pecan]

I mean, he seems to lose like... alot

[keen summit]

So i hope its just part of his plan

[civic lynx]

Very very likely

[keen summit]

Pride is vendettas entire thing

[civic lynx]

If she ever managed to kill or critically injure an OW member her sky high ego would reach astronomical levels

[keen summit]

She wanted revenge because she "deserved her dads empire"

[brittle sky]

Whether her pride leads to vendetta's downfall or has already allowed her to be a pawn in other people's game... yeah

[eager fog]

Doomfist went against prime Winston and left with no scratches…. BUT AGAINST VENDETTA HE LOST HIS BIG ASS FIST ? Makes no sense

[keen summit]

Keep in mind most of hr marketing is about "where are your heroes now"

[arctic pecan]

I mean, if you look at it like a mafia dynamic thats not an unreasonable belief, and there are a fon of parallels between the two

[wise grotto]

Reaper in theory is damn strong

[mossy vale]

What if doomfist was mega big brain and lets her do that because he knows he can use her pride against her? Idk how in character that is for doom

[wise grotto]

He’s also easy to rage bait and gets beaten because of that

[civic lynx]

This is possible tbh

[keen summit]

Imagine her injuring an old ow member and showing it to everyone while asking "where are your heroes now"

[arctic pecan]

Doom couldnt go all out, it was close quarters in a small room, he would destroy way too much if he threw a prpper punch

[mossy vale]

Also I found it hilarious that mauga was like 👍 when vendetta threw doom out

[eager fog]

In yall opinion whos the strongest in the ow lore

[wise grotto]

This is my genral theory

[civic lynx]

I think this is likely tbh

[opal prism]

For me sigma is a strong contender, but idk enough abt lore to give a real opinion

[wise grotto]

Winston physically speaking and unless sigma becomes fully mentally stable he’s not a threat

[brittle sky]

Sigma. Only one with like, 'maybe could end the world' level powers.

[arctic pecan]

Oh yeah... why was mauga even there? Isnt he just like a heavy enforcer

[wise grotto]

Sigma needs to be stable and we don’t know how much he can actually fully do

[keen summit]

Not this

[civic lynx]

He never really tries to stop her past throwing her against the computer when he had ample chance and has been shown as more capable

[brittle sky]

Look, it's that or have to come up with other councillors that players will immediately want them to make characters.

[mossy vale]

If doom was still dps vendetta would’ve lost….

[keen summit]

It was stated he actually was at some meetings before but often walked out cuz bored

[arctic pecan]

Did people do that to vialli? I wasnt reallu into the lore as a kid

[wise grotto]

Tbf Mauga is considered one of the smartest people there comparable to sombra
He usually walks off csuse he gets bored though

[keen summit]

No cuz vialli died

[brittle sky]

i mean vialli was killed in the same comic he was introduced in, so no

But people went nuts for moira when she was first seen on talon. People were obsessed with the idea of mohawk guy being a councillor too based off the back of a head in one panel.

[arctic pecan]

Wow, i thought there wouldve been a few comics given hoe much he did

[arctic pecan]

He is? He seems like a meathead in gameplay (which i know isnt canon but still)

[brittle sky]

Nah, he was just a name of a talon councillor that opposed Doom's return in masquerade, then at the end he's some guy in a suit that's all 'hey plz don't return doomfist' then doom throws him off what in that comic is a very tall bridge to his death, and then in the vendetta comic they mix up bridges and replace it with a very low rialto bridge, making it hilariously seem like Vialli dropped 5 feet and immediately drowned.

[wise grotto]

Oh yea no he’s supposed to be a tactical genius
He when the crew went to attack an omnic ship to get plans for a core decided he’d solo the main force of the ship and just steal the literal core for his team instead

[arctic pecan]

According to the wiki he took over talon in dooms absence and tried to get him assasinated tho?

[brittle sky]

Yeah that was all in the one comic

[arctic pecan]

Wow... pacing

[brittle sky]

Masquerade

Doom's return wasn't a long arc

Just a cool thing heralding his character's intro after being a throwaway line in the og cinematic then a cool impetus for the numbani map

[arctic pecan]

Yeah, i didnt really pay attention at the time. Its cool to learn though

[arctic pecan]

Heres hoping this will be the same...

[civic lynx]

Doom will be back at BlizzCon imo

[arctic pecan]

Mostly so the weird ow2 fans will stop thinkinh im on their side for not liking vendetta

[civic lynx]

Idk if he’ll be alone or join/create a faction

But they’ll reveal he’s not dead

[arctic pecan]

So what does max gain from talon? He already seems pretty rich and powerful on his own? I thought he agreed with doomfists ideology byt clearly not

[keen summit]

Protection

Doom wanted to kill him before he worked with him

[opal prism]

He isn't much of a fighter right?

[arctic pecan]

Thats it? Doesnt he own like a dozen legal businesses

[arctic pecan]

OHHHH makes sense

[brittle sky]

I did quite enjoy the original structure of talon as just ' a mass of evil people all pursuing their own goal in very rough alignment', so it's a bit of a pity that current writers treated it as really just doom getting what he wants, and now vendetta treating it as a pure hierarchy to build and empire from. I hope whatever version of talon makes it out of this arc will see a return of that.

[keen summit]

Pocket king

Basically doom threathenef him, max has many enemies

So more money + safety

[arctic pecan]

Yeah, ive heard that before, is that a comic? I onky really started noticing after like early ow2

[keen summit]

Its a short story

[civic lynx]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/media/short-story/the-pocket-king

[keen summit]

But also is narrated on youtube

Prefer the written one

More detail

[arctic pecan]

Dang... i need blizzard tp release an overwatch omnibus asap

[brittle sky]

yeah, always read short stories in full rather than just the storytime

you miss a lot of details (like just how in control and manipulating max was in vested interest) on just audio

[arctic pecan]

Yeah i didnt know that, i thoughy he was in control byt i didnt know he planned if

[keen summit]

Well maxs writing is really fun

[arctic pecan]

Also, just to be clear. Any particular reason why half of blackwatch now works for the people they were fighting against?

[keen summit]

In pocket king too

It shows how good he is at manipulating

[arctic pecan]

I get they were ousted btw

[peak escarp]

because Blackwatch was made up of morally questionable people

[keen summit]

The whole reason it existed is cuz the people they had weren't the types you wanted to show to the public

[peak escarp]

yep

[brittle sky]

unlike ow, who would never have made a clandestine murder squad and had issues with corruption and overreach

[wooden drift]

I think only reaper had his trust into doomfist. Every other member were there for their own gains

[wise grotto]

Moira was a criminal to a high degree of cruel experiments
Cass was an actual criminal
Genji was a rage filled murder robot
And reaper had anger issues and would shoot first a bunch

[peak escarp]

Reyes didn't have anger issues until after Moira's experiments

[arctic pecan]

... huh. I wouldve guessed widow at least if it wasnt for the drugs being controlled ny vendetta

[peak escarp]

before that he was a careful planner and known to have a level head

[wooden drift]

She stuck with talon, because she has nowhere else to go after killing her husband

[brittle sky]

reaper's arc is somewhat unclear. How much the rage was the result of experiments, and how much was mounting frustration at how his hands were tied at preventing 'true justice' is unclear

[wooden drift]

I think reyes was just flawed

[peak escarp]

very

[wise grotto]

Most of his rage was caused by it csuse he now lived permanently in pain
He was flawed before but the never ending pain only made that worse

[peak escarp]

I think before Moira's experiments, Reyes still had the anger, but he was able to control/manage it

her experiments eroded that control and made him act on impulses, like the impulse to shotgun Antonio in the face

[wooden drift]

Didn't really helped that Antonio was mocking him

[brittle sky]

I think any interesting interpretation of og ow is the whole org and its leaders, even the shining pillars, were deeply flawed

[wise grotto]

Oh they definitely where

I mean they chose to create black watch to begin with

[wooden drift]

I don't think it was made to kill people tho

[peak escarp]

the whole reason Blackwatch was made was so Reyes didn't have to deal with red tape and paperwork every time he did a covert mission

he'd just... "go on vacation"

[wise grotto]

No it wasn’t but it was filled with morally questionable and made to not follow the rules they where supposed to

[wooden drift]

Oh, yeah, that was awful

[peak escarp]

and Morrison allowed it because yeah it is actually kinda useful to have plausible deniability and the ability to say "we didn't authorize this, it was Reyes going rogue"

[wise grotto]

And soj kinda just looked the other way

[wooden drift]

Man, i wish they showed how Reyes and Jack were throwing hands against eachother before the explosion

[peak escarp]

maybe someday we'll learn what really happened

[brittle sky]

I mean... it kinda was. It was a strike force against an enemy that then pivoted to being a peacekeeping force with some scientific and ecological bonus work. Peacekeeping is just a monopoly on violence.

[wooden drift]

I think slowly but surely we're gonna get it

[peak escarp]

I'm still waiting for the story behind Cassidy's arm

[wooden drift]

Especially with those soldier's voice lines

[wooden drift]

Didn't Ashe ripped it off or im confusing it with something else?

[peak escarp]

no

[wooden drift]

Oh, okay

[peak escarp]

she threatened to have Bob rip off his other arm

[wooden drift]

Thought it was implying that she ripped his other arm

[peak escarp]

nope

[wooden drift]

Mb

[peak escarp]

he lost his arm long after leaving the Deadlock gang

after leaving Overwatch too

[wooden drift]

I don't think it's that important for the lore. So, they probably not bothered explaining it

Maybe in one off comic or novela

[peak escarp]

yeah

but I still want to know

[wooden drift]

I mean, they still didn't explain what the deal with zen is

[peak escarp]

they were probably going to in the Null Sector arc but that got cancelled

[ionic summit]

Hey, was wondering. Is it ever fully explained by ow themselves that the spirit dragons are hardlight or spirits? I recall having this conversation a while ago and someone saying and confirming it's hardlight but i can't find it so need it again

[wise grotto]

They’re hardlight the weapon hanzo uses creates hardlight stuff and so does his arrows at various times which is very visible
Genji uses a blade with same glowing in it as (now with direct comparison) the same energy weapon style as mizuki

[slow wasp]

Is kirikos stuff Hardlight?

I asume not right? That's "magic"

[ionic summit]

do we have visual proof for it? like in a comic or something? (sorry, some dude i'm talking to that wants confirmation that it is hardlight or not)

[peak escarp]

not hardlight

they're energy weapons

it's mentioned in the short story "Where Honor Lives"

they were made by Toshiro Yamagami (Kiriko's dad) who now makes inferior weapons for the Hashimoto

[ionic summit]

so, not hardlight, but another type of energy through tech?

[peak escarp]

yes

[ionic summit]

got it. thx

[edgy tree]

spirit energy*

[pastel berry]

I’m actually curious if ram omnick gang will go extinct

[peak escarp]

don't correct me, I was right

[keen summit]

Im just tired of people calling vendetta weak tho

[edgy tree]

they're Spirit energy weapons

[pastel berry]

She’s not getting enough hate

[peak escarp]

they don't call them that in the short story

[keen summit]

They call it outright tech

[pastel berry]

Has ow confirmed older character will be reworked or is it just false info?

[wooden drift]

I dunno, when the cinematic just released there was lots complaining about it

[pastel berry]

I know but I need more

[wooden drift]

Yea, they said it on the stream

[keen summit]

You can hate her for alot but people acting like its weird she would be able to cut off dooms arm is stupid

[pastel berry]

Alright doom prolly getting reworked, but haven’t he already been like reworked 2 times

[pastel berry]

It’s lowkey weird that he can grab the sword but then magically it gets cut off. But I see both sides

[wooden drift]

I hope they make him better, but not cancerous how he was in ow1

[keen summit]

Also note the technology a bit after the second energy

[keen summit]

One was with the hand the other was at elbow

[wooden drift]

Only people who liked this doom were doomfist mains

[pastel berry]

But was it he’s arm or was it pure robotic?

[keen summit]

That arm was prosthetic

[pastel berry]

He charged the punch, wish the fight lasted a little longer

[peak escarp]

it's probably a matter of velocity - he could catch it when the sword was moving slower

[pastel berry]

Would’ve been sick

[keen summit]

The fight really wasnt that great

[pastel berry]

Like okay he can loose, but make more action

[keen summit]

I found it sad cuz it was one of those one hit fights

[wooden drift]

Probably budget constraints

[keen summit]

Both sides could end the fight in one hit

[pastel berry]

I bet someone finds him and give him a new one

🤷

[keen summit]

My theory is he already has a new one

Remember the energy core they stole?

[pastel berry]

It’s kinda fun how so many thinks he’s dead tho💀

[keen summit]

Theyve not used it

[pastel berry]

Yessir?

Ohhh shi

Probably new improved one

[ionic summit]

it was still moving pretty quick when he caught it. not to mention his gauntlet wasn't even charged then, yet it was charged when vendetta cut it

[pastel berry]

I think sombra and reaper will find him

Hope they make update fast and not wait months..

[keen summit]

Again she didnt attack the fist

She attacked the elbow

So the doomfist could stop it, so she avoided ut

[ionic summit]

i think it's fine that vendetta beat him, they're probably setting up to something, but i'm not a fan of how easily he was beaten. he was not on-guard at all mostly

[pastel berry]

But like, is it just me or was he moving much faster when he fought Winston genji and tracer

[keen summit]

Rhats my problem too

I think most believe it to be a plan

[wooden drift]

He was getting rusty by the time he fought against Vendetta

[pastel berry]

But he’s about evolving, he probably adapt to this conflict. They ain’t throwing away YEARS of work and community fav character like that

So lowkey fun how ppl think the mf dead

[keen summit]

They also explocitly avoided saying hes dead

[pastel berry]

Yepp

[keen summit]

They just made doom seem like an idiot

[pastel berry]

But I think talon will split, sombra and reaper won’t follow vendetta

So think they will fight each other and probably make a new gang

[keen summit]

Vendetta us strong enough and good enough at combat to make her win without making him an idiot

[keen summit]

I dont see why reaper wouldnt

[pastel berry]

But if he’s getting rework this is good work to do so, makes sense in a way.

[pastel berry]

He killed her dad

[keen summit]

And?

[pastel berry]

I don’t see why sombra likes doom so much tho..

[keen summit]

Sombra doesnt like him

[pastel berry]

Tf have they done for each other

[keen summit]

But doom did give her resources and never went too hard on offense

[wooden drift]

He's the only character who somewhat agreed with doomfist's ideology. Every other member were here for their own gain

[edgy tree]

ethereal blue energy

[keen summit]

Technology

[keen summit]

Moira and mauga do in their own ways

[edgy tree]

Explain the kiriko fox spirit then which is directly mentioned as that

[pastel berry]

Ah.. I just didn’t see the logic in the theory of sombra leaves and look for him

[keen summit]

Mauga is an example of it

While moira basically follows the ame ideal

[edgy tree]

There are spirits in overwatch and the weapons her dad makes use spirit energy somehow

[wooden drift]

Moira was in talon only because they sponsored her research.

[keen summit]

This is explicitly not trchnology from her dad

[keen summit]

They dont

Theyre tech

Its said in the same page

[edgy tree]

those swords were made by him

[ionic summit]

the first swing was just a basic swing at him. the second which cut his gauntlet was aimed at it. my guess is if anything, she avoided the charged punch and cut the gauntlet. this is just odd since we know the gauntlet is like one of the strongest weapons in ow lore but we know jackshit about vendetta's sword

[edgy tree]

Hanzos bow is made by him

[pastel berry]

IF someone turn against vendetta, who do y’all think it is?

[edgy meadow]

out of core talon members? sombra

[wooden drift]

Sombra just not evil or fully selfish character. She'll atleast check if he's alright

[glad fox]

I don't think Moira cares about anyone's ideologies. She just cares about carrying out her experiments

[pastel berry]

Only her?

[wooden drift]

Reaper and sombra

[pastel berry]

I hope reaper join sombra

They iconic duo

[keen summit]

Her experiments are generally about evolution

[edgy tree]

Technology that uses spirit energy as Kirikos family has spiritual connections

[keen summit]

Sombra wouldnt turn against her icl

[wise grotto]

Ah didn’t know that actually

[edgy meadow]

i can only see reaper bc he just hates vendetta, sombra i can actually see joining the good guys or at least leaning away from talon permanently over time

[keen summit]

Yes and thats why kiriko is outright the only one stated NOT to use his tech

[wise grotto]

Not while sigma there

[pastel berry]

I do not hope doom join good guys

[wise grotto]

Kiriko is the only one with no tie in to any tech yet

[pastel berry]

Sigma in talon?!?

[wise grotto]

Which is the issue

[edgy tree]

because she just can summon spirits

[glad fox]

Sombra is in talon for her own thing right, to find the eye thing or whatever

[wise grotto]

He’s been there as a weapon the whole time

[edgy tree]

That was part of her lore

[ionic summit]

they control him

[wooden drift]

Sombra playing on her own team. Kinda playing both sides for her own gain, but she's not evil

[pastel berry]

How the hell isn’t he in control

The mf most powerful in ow

[keen summit]

Yeah, so isnt it weird everyone but her uses the tech with spirits according tobyou

[ionic summit]

the dude's insane

[wooden drift]

He's insane, that's why

[glad fox]

He is insane

[wise grotto]

He’s insane

[edgy tree]

actually her grandma could as well

[wise grotto]

Incapable of being on his own

[pastel berry]

Ahhh

[keen summit]

I know

[edgy tree]

also she doesn't use tech with spirits

[edgy meadow]

thats why i think that'll happen, especially once the conspiracy will start to play a bigger role in the narrative

[wooden drift]

He has like split personalities

[edgy tree]

the Shimadas use spirit tech

[ionic summit]

if sigma was on his own. he'd probably accidentally get earth swallowed by a black hole or something

[keen summit]

We dont know if he can

We dont know sigs limits

[edgy tree]

the only reason the guys who assaulted Hanzo didn't summon anything was because the weapons were badly made

as stated before

[ionic summit]

"probably". he'd do something like that. he'd cause havoc

[pastel berry]

Maybe shimada will rise again

Hahahah

[glad fox]

How? Neither genji nor hanzo want to be part of shimada

[pastel berry]

I’ll just stay with ram. Even tho he got a boring ass lore not doing anything

He’s just solo roaming

[wooden drift]

He's being smartest character to be honest

Bro got what he wanted and now waiting for humans to kill eachother

[pastel berry]

What he do?

[glad fox]

Did he get what he wanted?

He wants omnics to be free

[toxic flax]

null sector

[pastel berry]

Watch the mf have something to do with dooms comeback 💀💀💀

[edgy meadow]

theyre probably gonna come back to rammatra in the future, probably next year

[pastel berry]

Out of the thin air

[edgy meadow]

i think theyre just tryna make people forget about the null sector flop

[brittle sky]

I mean he by all accounts forcibly raptured a bunch of omnics to the cloud, and the plot ended so early in invasion it didn't really seem there was much of a counter move from ow

[edgy meadow]

and once its out of people's minds theyll come back to that type of story

[brittle sky]

on a themed year. With ten omnic buds

[wooden drift]

His first part of the plan was to get omnics and he got it almost flawlessly

[edgy tree]

Sadly Zen didn't want to follow him but besides that yeah he has the majority of the omnics

[edgy meadow]

i think we're getting at least one new omnic this year (trench coat guy) but ye id love a full narrative year exploring rammatra's plans and the omnic side of things properly

[brittle sky]

yeah, the exit partway through really doesn't sell that ram and doom didn't get exactly what they wanted

[edgy tree]

His plan wasn't a complete takeover just ensuring his race doesn't get finished off

[glad fox]

Which trench coat guy?

[edgy tree]

yeah they essentially won

[edgy meadow]

second shadowed figure to the right

[wooden drift]

Such a cool omnic

[edgy meadow]

the dots on the face look very omnic

the figure on the left could also be an omnic but im not as sure

[wooden drift]

Sniper omnic maybe

[brittle sky]

detective bot. or crime bot. or HALFRED GLITCHBOT

[wooden drift]

The waist too thin to be human

[edgy meadow]

could be

[edgy tree]

Their feet look very triangular

[edgy meadow]

could also just be a human with modifications

[wooden drift]

Either omnic or cyborg

[edgy meadow]

its hard to say

[edgy tree]

the left girls waist looks very unnatural

[edgy meadow]

thats true

[wooden drift]

Detective bot could be so good

[edgy meadow]

theres a good chance thats also an omnic, but i think the trench goat is very confidently an omnic

so at least once omnic hero this year, i think, maybe more

would have been cool if the 2nd tank was also an omnic but we're like 85% sure this is d.mon

[edgy tree]

They do have the very triangular look to the few parts of the body we can see

[wooden drift]

Maybe let him investigate doomfist's defeat or anything to connect it to lore in interesting manner

[keen summit]

But why would they

Legit

[wooden drift]

Just wish he wouldn't be serious character

I like silly detective characters

[keen summit]

He looks super serious tbh

[edgy meadow]

i dont think people would be happy if the first new omnic in 3 years is an unserious joke character

[wooden drift]

Maybe it just the looks

[keen summit]

Nah i think we should make him serious

[edgy meadow]

we already got jetpack cat so i doubt we're getting more goofy characters

this year at least

[glad fox]

I wonder if the big robot looking character is another mech pilot

[keen summit]

We might get a mix of both

[edgy meadow]

people are speculating its d.mon

[keen summit]

Its either dmon or maybe gwishin copying

[wooden drift]

I mean having single omnic character who isn't as serious like zen or ram could be neat

[edgy meadow]

based on old artwork and the teased concept art from the spotlight

[keen summit]

They have rhe exact same weapons

[edgy meadow]

ye im also among those who think its d.mon

which would be cool

[brittle sky]

We have like two full body cyborgs. We really don't need more.

[edgy meadow]

i really wanna see more of meka

[keen summit]

My theory is gwishin who copied beast casino and dmon into one robot

Cuz it has aspects of all three

Sorry not beast

[edgy meadow]

where do the aspects of beast and casino appear in the design?

[keen summit]

Casino is the spoiler

[wooden drift]

What gwishin even is?

[edgy tree]

idk the mech doesn't really look Similar to d.mon's one

[keen summit]

The angular designs

[edgy tree]

it has a head shape on top

[keen summit]

Weapons are the same

[edgy meadow]

could be an updated look but i get it

[keen summit]

Hence why i speculate it might be gwishin copying the mekas

[keen summit]

Mekas enemy

[wooden drift]

Like overwatch's talon?

[edgy tree]

idk Their mech would still keep a similar design to D.va's

it looks a LOT less chunky

[edgy meadow]

thats true

[keen summit]

So gwishin copying all the mekas into a new form is a double reason for me tho
One its interesting
Two first gwishin hero
Three im biased
Four its a classic trope in things of which meka is based on where the enemies copy their style

[edgy tree]

They do be all about adapting

[keen summit]

Exactly

And that it copies three if the specialised combat mechs together

Cuz overlord is healing and dva is jack of all trades

• makes the head more logical

[edgy tree]

They made a giant mech that explodes like a nuke..... lemmie just copy that really quick

[keen summit]

They have all these different mechs with different goals, i combine bevause we can do all easily

[edgy tree]

would even make sense since they want to destroy the city

[keen summit]

Cuz yknow a formula 1 driver cant just instantly switch to an excavator

[brittle sky]

As someone who would be just tickled by a gwishin hero, I hope they make them properly strange and inhuman shaped, rather than just dark samusing meka

[keen summit]

I get you

But i think this is better than gettung dmon

I really dont see how dmon will be different and interesting enough

[civic lynx]

I wonder if we’ll see the gwishin’s full form if they do something with the teaser on busan of an EMP being developed to counter it

[edgy tree]

They should definitly keep their more angular style

[edgy meadow]

id like a gwishin hero but id also be happy with a 2nd meka hero

[edgy tree]

like the Gwishin Bastion skin

[keen summit]

It is angular though

Thats what also ticked me towards it

[civic lynx]

Seem to be melee

[edgy tree]

yeah I... said that?

[civic lynx]

The concept shows some sort of green sword and shield attached to the mech rather than a gun

[keen summit]

I meant as in that it is so they are keeping it

[keen summit]

Thing is

If my theory is correct

They might have 3 weapons in a way

Like it switches to the sword and shield kinda like ram

[edgy tree]

Weapons that go back into the hand

[keen summit]

But normally has lasers or missles like the other mechs

[civic lynx]

The concept has them hold both at the same but switching would be really cool

[keen summit]

It can go on and off

[civic lynx]

Lasers would be peak

[keen summit]

Thats casino

And rockets is i think beast

[brittle sky]

blow her up so she's bound to the mech. give different motives or alliegances. Like getting a 2nd dva right after getting a 2nd wuyang and a 2nd kiriko is a bit much, but this one they could at least distinguish

oop, wrong response

sorry comadre

[edgy meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/810336789465530378/1467892557781663774/attachment-6.gif

[keen summit]

But this is why i think i might be right and HOPE i am

[edgy meadow]

i think whether its gwishin or a 2nd meka hero, im just really happy we're exploring that side of the world narratively again

[peak escarp]

that's a lot to infer from a silhouette

[civic lynx]

All but confirmed meka

[edgy meadow]

we already mentioned this concept art

[brittle sky]

the face plate there looks real dmon. Not sure what aspects of king or casino we could even get

[edgy meadow]

i personally think its more likely to be dmon than gwishin, but it doesnt look one-to-one like the old dmon design

[brittle sky]

nor any gwishin theming really

[peak escarp]

yeah looks like D.mon to me

an updated version

[civic lynx]

The only thing that looks different to me is the mech’s stance

It looks to be taller

[keen summit]

Could still be gwishin copying it

But i think dmon is more likely

Just cuz yonow

[peak escarp]

it doesn't match the Gwishin aesthetic

[keen summit]

It seems theyre trying to do alot of requested stuff rn

And dmon or well any meka habe beem requested for years

[peak escarp]

BUT she could get a Gwishin skin

[keen summit]

Yes

[peak escarp]

I'd rather have Casino, he's more interesting

[keen summit]

Im just not thrilled bout dmon cuz i dont see how she'll feel different from current dva character wise

[brittle sky]

I wonder if mizuri indicates they aren't going casino soon, seeing as he's another young east asian guy with dyed white hair

[keen summit]

She looks borderline the same, her personality is described as pretty similar etc

[peak escarp]

D.Va is toxic gamer girl, D.mon is the team mom

[keen summit]

Buddy

I dont think that matters

We have gotten almost back to back asian supports the entirety of ow2

Only exception was illari

And now cat

[brittle sky]

I meant specific aesthetic overlaps

[keen summit]

It really doesnt matter icl

Im more concerned that we are likely getting 3 female heroes in a row after a year where we got mainly female chars aswell and even next patch has mainly female heroes

I dont hate female heroes but id like variety

Both look pretty feminine

Then dmon

Plus domina anran technically cat

[brittle sky]

i mean I think 'female' is a much broader category (or at least should be) than 'young asian male with dyed white hair'

[edgy meadow]

lowk i think the background behind each season's name in this picture is a hint

[civic lynx]

The right is likely a man

There was a clip of a dev talking about new heroes

[keen summit]

I get why cuz the oni guy in kirikos trailer was a guy

[civic lynx]

And they said the s3 hero is the coolest one of the whole year and “I can’t say much about HIM yet”

[keen summit]

I also hope so

[wise grotto]

The right has some prosthetic looking wrists

[keen summit]

Wait

Uhm

S4m

[civic lynx]

S3 not 4

[keen summit]

I was aboutvto say

[civic lynx]

I pressed the wrong number

[keen summit]

Yeah then it's the oni guy in the back

[brittle sky]

them yet

[keen summit]

Thank god

[civic lynx]

It sounds like he says him imo

[keen summit]

[brittle sky]

Sounded like 'em, as in them. And in general I'd be surprised if we got a guy with a hime cut, rounded hips and the sort of narrow legs they have consistently given to women and I don't think ever given to men? Like hey, at that point, gnc rep if it's a dude.

[civic lynx]

I think it being a man isn’t out of the equation blizzard seem to be trying to be a tiny bit less formulaic with hero designs so a man that finally isn’t stronger than the average WWE wrestler is possible

[keen summit]

Tbf tho

Anran was formalic to a t

[civic lynx]

Mizuki seems thinner than the other male heroes as well

[brittle sky]

I, uh... I don't think their recent batch has shown they want to be less formulaic

[brittle sky]

and his legs are twice as muscular as oni

like if that's their skinny, it shows that this character would be a step beyond what they want to put on the skinny guys

[civic lynx]

Jetpack cat, Emre and to some extent domina bc of her extra limbs are more interesting than Juno, anran, kiriko, wuyang etc

Anran is very clearly designed to be the next cash cow and even had her whole face changed to make sure she does achieve it

[valid jolt]

guys, i have a wild hypothesis, sigma was not present in the meeting, what if sigma saved doom from fall damage, sigma see's the universe, controls gravity.

what is sigma up to

[peak escarp]

unlikely, Sigma doesn't leave his lab

[brittle sky]

old man yaoi

[valid jolt]

D:

[civic lynx]

😭

[keen summit]

1 why would he be present
2 why would he care

He doesnt even know what talon does

[valid jolt]

talon gives him everything he wants

[keen summit]

Yea, but he doesnt know what they do

[brittle sky]

I think even the more interesting concepts like emre and domina are done in such a way to minimize their oddity and maximize their conventional appeal.

[valid jolt]

doom could not do the ultimate move without his rocket fist.. someone we know saved him right?

[keen summit]

We dont know

[civic lynx]

He’s definitely not dead but I’d assume we won’t find out who saved him until BlizzCon

[valid jolt]

i hope there is some ingame interaction with vendetta and doom

[keen summit]

Himself

[civic lynx]

Is definitely an option 😭🙏🏽

[valid jolt]

there was a xbox podcast with kenny and the lead lore person, and out of nowhere dion came "i found this fist lying around, seemed like nobody wanted it" and put it on the table

it was a lifesize doomfist

[grand wedge]

Read this comic, it's explained : https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/comic/reconciliation/

but basically, he wants to keep omnics he abducted safe until the world is ready to accept them. (subtext is let humans kill each other and see what's next)

[keen summit]

Truthh

[fallow mantle]

new storyyyy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB_nnscVC4w

[brittle sky]

And humans have obligingly immediately started killing each other

[fallow mantle]

Omfg, ||Widow, Reaper and Sombra left?!||

[edgy meadow]

wait this isnt bait

[fallow mantle]

nope

LMAO? MAUGA GOING TO
||JUNKERTOWN AS A DIPLOMAT???||

[civic lynx]

TALON GLADIATORS?

[fallow mantle]

i REALLY like the art style in this comic

it looks more realistic but still distinct

[wooden drift]

Wait there's new comic?

[weary quarry]

Holy moly

[fallow mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB_nnscVC4w

[wooden drift]

Oh, shit

[weary quarry]

Damn Sombra dipped on SIg

[wooden drift]

Imma go watch in a sec then

Were getting so much plot stuff it's unreal

Wasn't even a week since cinematic

[edgy meadow]

oh so deadlock is planning to infiltrate grand mesa, but its just a cover for talon

im glad the stadium maps werent just red herrings

[fallow mantle]

super, super cool comic, especially following from the cinematic - i loved widow's and sombra's shared look in the cinematic

so it's super awesome that they all went off together

makes me wish ramattra's thing had been wrapped up with as much care as this tbh, especially after waiting 3-5 years for his story to come to fruition. i know he's just gone 'away' for now but

this is all so good

i wish he could've had a similar resolution

[weary quarry]

Sanjay looks terrified at Vendettas attack

[fallow mantle]

Mauga's face was HILARIOUS

[weary quarry]

Mauga just wants to fight lol

[edgy meadow]

mauga's arc in junkertown sounds like peak shenanigans

also i am curious what the 3 of them are going to do now

[prime kelp]

I have a feeling sombra will join overwatch tbh

[edgy meadow]

i doubt theyre going to join overwatch formally, probably just create a rogue cell for now

[weary quarry]

Sombra leaving seems pretty danegrous for them

[prime kelp]

Sombras always been interesting with her motives though

[fallow mantle]

super interested in where it's gonna go now reaper's left talon

[edgy tree]

Or she'll help soldier out

[prime kelp]

Maybe

[fallow mantle]

like, REAPER? he's on a tether to moira no longer

same with sigma

poor sigma wtf is gonna happen to him lmao 😭

[edgy tree]

Soldier seems to be trying to look into the Conspiracy just as much as Sombra

[prime kelp]

Yeah where is sigma

[keen summit]

Im guessing our next hero who has a drone is one ofvthe gaurds from helix

[prime kelp]

He's been missing

[edgy meadow]

widow and reaper are probably in trouble bc they both depend on medication that talon provided them

[edgy tree]

they woudn't have a guy talking about hands being arm feet in a meeting

[edgy meadow]

but i doubt the two of them left bc its the 'right thing' to do lol

[weary quarry]

Sombra will prob come back for him

[civic lynx]

I wonder where widow will go after this

Reaper would probably be on his own ig?

[edgy tree]

I don't think Reaper is actually kept up by anythin

[twilit patrol]

Mauga is such a fun character in the lore

[valid jolt]

WHAT THE LORE DROP

NEW LORE

[civic lynx]

Sombra will definitely be back to snatch sigma from vendetta

[weary quarry]

Fr

[fallow mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB_nnscVC4w

[civic lynx]

And Tokyo is in trouble since Mizuki is going to switch sides at some point

[edgy tree]

yep thought so Mouga and Moira stayed

[prime kelp]

I didn't think about that

Yeah probably

Why didn't it reply lol

[prime kelp]

Replying to this

[twilit patrol]

I need the cinematic when Talon attacks Gibraltar

[civic lynx]

I think we’ll get it on Tuesday tbh

[edgy tree]

Yep

Sombra,Widow and Reaper are gone

[keen summit]

I think our next hero is from helix

[civic lynx]

The destroyed Gibraltar map probably releases with the season launch update

[twilit patrol]

I hope so

[keen summit]

She has the drones

[civic lynx]

They’ll release the cinematic either right before or soon after S1 goes live

[edgy tree]

Widow and Sombra looked at eachother concerned during the whole thing and Reaper uknow..... killed her dad

[civic lynx]

So we can see how the map got that damaged

[keen summit]

And grand mesa is protected by drones

[edgy tree]

not suprized they left Talon

[civic lynx]

I think the grand mesa thing will be shown in s2 (maybe as a cinematic 👀)

[edgy tree]

Max was the one who got Emre into talon

that's cool

[wooden drift]

Wow, the already made Vendetta start shit around the world

[prime kelp]

It is I believe

[civic lynx]

I wonder when we’ll see mauga in junkertown

[fallow mantle]

I'm not, but also I AM? because widow and her drugs

and reaper

[wise grotto]

Widows the suprise one the other two can manage if they leave

[fallow mantle]

esp as she's 'emotionless'

[wise grotto]

Widow uses those drugs to remain stable

[prime kelp]

Isn't widow brainwashed

[edgy tree]

I think she just decided she no longer should force herself to forget

[fallow mantle]

it was so coooool when she reacted to doomfist being tossed aside

[edgy tree]

using those drugs

[civic lynx]

Yes but in game (not always canon but sometimes is used to hint) she has brief times where the brainwashing seems to be failing and she’s remembering things she’s not meant to

[keen summit]

I think our hero is also from helix

[wooden drift]

She was conditioned only to kill her husband, after that all of her choices were her own

[civic lynx]

True

[keen summit]

They talked aboutvdrones

[edgy tree]

She was already showing some emotion before that (in-game) so she might've been off drugs for a bit now

[keen summit]

And she has one

[edgy tree]

she took drugs (Overwatch said so)

to be like that

[fallow mantle]

i love that the talon strike team from infiltration all left together lol 😭

their reactions in the cinematic were so, so good

[edgy tree]

They do have Freja and Emre now so infiltrating old overwatch bases will propably not be much of an issue

[wooden drift]

I think three of them have better relationships with eachother

[fallow mantle]

they've worked alongside each other for a looong time

so i really like that they left together

[steel locust]

Crazy that they left talon

Holy fuck bro

[prime kelp]

Fair

Sombra will do something though

[civic lynx]

Sombra will at very least try and break sigma out of talon

[edgy tree]

They propably built some kinda relationship at this point

[brittle sky]

Widow could be vendetta's mole among the fugitives (using the lever of the drugs to get her ratting on the other two) given the emphasis put in the vested interest comic. Otherwise that focus is just to chekov's gun that widow is going to go through a very nasty detox

[prime kelp]

Idk what, and I could see reaper and soldier confronting again

[civic lynx]

I wouldn’t be shocked if she attempted to sabotage them as well

[prime kelp]

She definitely would

She already doesn't like Moira lol

She doesn't like vendetta

[edgy tree]

I hope Sombra tries to keep her in check

she was shown to be preety caring to people she values

[native hazel]

vendetta tuff af

[wooden drift]

Sombra and Reaper definitely have somewhat of a friendly relationship with eachother

[fallow mantle]

i wonder if this will bring widow back to the 'good' side

[prime kelp]

I mean reapers also a victim of Moira

[civic lynx]

I think widow may end up being found by a current or ex ow member and they try to help her once they realise she’s not with talon anymore

[edgy tree]

The whole killing people thing was her choise (after killing Gerald ofc) so she'd be an anti-hero if anything

[prime kelp]

I do wonder where sigma will end up if sombra does rescue him

Cause he's not a bad guy lol

[fallow mantle]

mercy might try bring widow back lol

and/or sigma

[civic lynx]

I’ve always assumed OW

[fallow mantle]

or winston might 🤔

[civic lynx]

Even if sombra didn’t join ow she would get them to help sigma

[quartz rampart]

mauga vs jumker queen will be fun

[prime kelp]

Probs

[fallow mantle]

junker queen with her giant ship

[wooden drift]

One of his personality is definitely bad, like really bad

[fallow mantle]

what if she's already left australia lmao

[wooden drift]

It's just in game it doesn't shows up

[edgy tree]

would be weird if they just stuck around with the ship

[edgy tree]

his kill comments do show it sometimes

[wooden drift]

Almost not shows up then

Still shame

[edgy tree]

I still remember his like father like son comment after killing Winton

[fallow mantle]

i love that one LMAO

[quartz rampart]

i fuck with vendettas plan

[fallow mantle]

what plan? she said she didnt plan!!

:p

[quartz rampart]

true

[edgy tree]

But yeah I feel like Mauga has a good chance to turn Junkers to the side of Talon at least in some way

[quartz rampart]

but she wants to end overwatch permanetly. not endless war like what doomfists ideology requires

[wooden drift]

So weird seeing overwatch villain actually do something this massive

[edgy tree]

Big strong dude that can fight fits well with their whole "who can beat the king in a fight is the new king" lifestyle

[civic lynx]

I hope they don’t just have vendetta lose by this time next year and 2027 is a new villain or threat

[quartz rampart]

shes bloodthisty which is nice

[civic lynx]

I’d like to see vendetta’s plan shift and adapt over a couple of years before eventually being defeated

[fallow mantle]

we used to be dripfed lore so every little thing was a big thing, now we are getting so much, and everything is big, so it feels like vendetta has done so much more than ram and doom did in the last 9 years

[wise grotto]

I think Mauga and jq are gonna have a direct fight and that’s actually a pretty interesting 1v1

By all means there both extremely strong

[quartz rampart]

and actually wants to use the insane amount of connection that talon has as the king of the underworld

[edgy tree]

Ramattra crying in the corner

[wise grotto]

I mean ram did a lot but was cut short by the game itself

[wooden drift]

And power hungry

[wise grotto]

And doom didn’t really do anything

[wooden drift]

Got cut too soon unfortunately

[fallow mantle]

yeah it's such a shame. i wish he had a resolution that wasn't just one comic

[quartz rampart]

doom saw a global war and decided to sit down like thanos

[edgy meadow]

lol

[quartz rampart]

his job was done

[edgy tree]

he did still do a world scale invasion

[edgy meadow]

we'll probably come back to rammatra's story in next year's arc if i had to guess

[edgy tree]

much more than Doom did just collectin info and people

[wooden drift]

But it was more about getting omnics, than starting huge war

[edgy tree]

besides the few attacks he did

[quartz rampart]

ram when he sees both talon and overwatch weakened from fighting each other for an entire year

[edgy tree]

yeah but it was still a massive scale thing

[wooden drift]

Oh, yeah, they're not done with him. Excited what they have in mind in the future

[edgy tree]

He was the reason Overwatch could uknow

be a thing again this early

[keen summit]

Can we make this an emoji

[civic lynx]

Is it possible for ram to be able to utilise the gwishin for anything in his plan

[wooden drift]

Such a goofy face

[civic lynx]

Like as a way to bring relevance to both of them in lore again

[edgy meadow]

well we arent fully sure what his plan is yet

right now he's just expecting talon and overwatch to blow each other up

[civic lynx]

Isn’t exactly wrong to think that tbh

[edgy meadow]

it isnt

[fallow mantle]

the lack of detail in sanjay's face vs the detail in mauga's face made me lol 😭

[edgy meadow]

which is why i think rammatra will be the focus of next year's story

[keen summit]

I love the different reactions

[civic lynx]

I hope vendetta remains as a villain until 2028 so we can have more of her form of talon

[wooden drift]

Maybe to do what aurora did

[civic lynx]

And then 2029 has her killed, removed from leader whatever and a new leader is introduced

[keen summit]

You have freja and emre look solemn, sanjay terrified, the rsst looking shocked, moira like yesss goood and then mauga FUCK YEAAA

[fallow mantle]

i love mauga so much lmfoa

[edgy tree]

I loved how she just bombed their base mid-conversation lol

[fallow mantle]

reminds me of his short and his hero gameplay trailer lol

[livid tangle]

Do we know where sigma is in the lore rn like is he with vendetta or has he left with sombra and the others?

[wooden drift]

His cinematic was fun

[edgy tree]

They'd include him with the defectors

[civic lynx]

I’d assume with vendetta still but Sombra will be working to get him out

[wooden drift]

He's definitely in talon

[fallow mantle]

mhmmm i love that one lol

[keen summit]

Yesh

[keen summit]

We dont know, sombra will likely try to get him out

[edgy tree]

But idk carpet bombing them doesn't really feel like "ending overwatch"

[wooden drift]

Maybe sending a message

[edgy tree]

Noone gonna die from that the base is just very much on fire

[wooden drift]

Typical villain stuff

[fossil wren]

So Reaper, Sombra and Widow leaved talon and remained loyalist to Doom?

[civic lynx]

I thought it would be a carpet bombing and then she lands troops at Gibraltar to kill them

[edgy meadow]

i think the intent is to kill them tho

[edgy tree]

She was against that kinda thing though

[civic lynx]

But ig not

[edgy meadow]

lol

they wont die but

i think thats the intent

[edgy tree]

she tried at least dx

[keen summit]

Or to make em homeless

[edgy tree]

Poor Winton

[edgy meadow]

the first person to type that joke is getting fried

[wooden drift]

Reaper left cuz he was loyal. Sombra cuz she doesn't want to help psychopath like Vendetta probably. And widow is unknown for now

[civic lynx]

I need them to expand on the point of that Iceland map

Like is that OW’s new hq or something what is that place for

[edgy meadow]

but ye not having a base is a big blow for overwatch

[keen summit]

They live there too so its morale hit

[edgy tree]

Widow and Sombra looked worried at the takeover so might be for the same reason

[edgy meadow]

i can see the new base becoming watchpoint antartica

[keen summit]

Thatd be awkward

[edgy tree]

hell they looked at eachother beforehand

[keen summit]

Cuz ram is implied to be there

[fossil wren]

Wanst ram in antartica?

[keen summit]

Its heavily implied practically confirmed

[edgy meadow]

its implied he's hiding in the arctic but that doesnt mean theyre going to encounter

[wooden drift]

He's gonna jump them then

[keen summit]

Its still funny though

I dontvthink theyll go there

Doesnt fit

[edgy meadow]

it also makes sense; when they took antartica out of the hero pool they told us it would be readded in what they called season 22 at the time - which is basically this year's season 2

[fossil wren]

Tracer goes out for a walk and just happens to run into the entire damn Null Sector fleet hiding

[wooden drift]

But I don't think they'll comeback to ram this soon

[keen summit]

Its super remote so how do they get food without beih spotted

[edgy meadow]

peak writing i fear

[keen summit]

Yeah but logistically it doesn't work, making rams base works better

[edgy tree]

then there's a scooby doo chase section

[wooden drift]

Tracer just this lucky

[shrewd pivot]

The new comic video was good, I am glad they are showing us how Vendetta is a competent leader in strategies, finally show don't tell writing yay

I am very suprised Widowmaker left.

Mauga in Junkertown will be very fun to see.

[wooden drift]

The same way she was in Mandatta's being sniped

[civic lynx]

Blizzard take notes

[keen summit]

I think its maybe hints for next heroes tho

The helix onr might be our next hero

Cuz high tech drones

[edgy meadow]

wait youre cooking

[wooden drift]

Her hair looks a bit like widow's

[edgy meadow]

the background here is also a canyon

[quartz rampart]

sanjay realizes hes replaceble lmao

[keen summit]

Grand mesa

[shrewd pivot]

True! Tho the flying drone ponytail hero design gave me more of a "good guy" vibe in how the character is posed? But still hype