lore-discussion

[wise grotto]

Aka “rich bitch” but leaning more into the intimidating “I have power because of who I am and you WILL respect that” over Aurelia being a stupidly shallow character

[spare fox]

yes she definitely demands respect/power first and foremost with her design

[brittle sky]

I think there's a bit of friction between the threads of 'perfect heiress' with features that are not just unaged but downright youthful, and the 'dommy mommy corpo boss' that are trying to lean into her hitting that karen rich bitch vibe. Like they slightly undercut each other in the visuals

[peak escarp]

also happy to see another woman tank

and another male support

[wise grotto]

I’m happy to see a character that holds themselves with this specific kind of energy
Nobody else in overwatch does to such an imposing collective level

[spare fox]

and one thing I LOVE about OW design is that there definitely are overlaps of abilities, attidues, mechanics between characters BUT they make them so different and unique

[wise grotto]

Everything about her leans into this down to the way she holds the weapon sort of lazily when it’s being reloaded
The fact she doesn’t even actually hold up the crystal in our first look even that she makes the robot hand do cause the architects are still beneath her

[spare fox]

and in the first look motion short story, we the viewers are even looking up at her (and Vendetta)

[shrewd pivot]

As in the big arm silhouette with a floating form? Kinda, Recluse was more hanging with an X shape, her arms are in the mech arms. Domina is more A pose with a "shoulder pad" shape arms behind her.

I hope there's still room for a mouth lazer character one day tho lmao it would be great. The og recluse walking legs were awesome too, would make for a very fun phreaks member if Recluse gets revisted.

[brittle sky]

Mouth laser just hast the issue of representing that in 1st person

[wise grotto]

Oh yea recluse was gonna be awesome

[wise grotto]

Could make it a third oerson ability

[brittle sky]

zooming out for an ability you would almost certainly want to aim just to not look weird is a bit tricky

[fallow mantle]

And the first male dps since Doomfist, who is no longer a dps - so first male dps introduced essentially lmao🙏

[shrewd pivot]

Same I can't wait. Her animations look like they will be oodles of fun, her expressions are character and very fun.

[peak escarp]

I was trying to add up all the female tanks... and I forgot JQ 😭

but Domina is only our 5th female tank

the other roles are more evenly split genderwise

[shrewd pivot]

It's funny devs said that, because all they have to do is make it like echoes hand lazer, but with a first person only addition of some translucent lazery lines from the bottom of the screen to imply the lazer is coming out of the mouth instead. Or a kamehameha deal, mouth opens with an orb infront that fires a lazer.

[peak escarp]

assuming that big silhouette is D.Mon, we'll get one more this year too

no way she isn't a tank

[wise grotto]

Naw@the giant mf in the back is definitely actually a support

[spare fox]

anything's possible I mean

it's most likely the giant silhouette is a tank

but Vendetta was "supposed to be" a tank too so 🤷‍♂️

don't count chickens before they hatch ig

[wise grotto]

True but this game goes by size is what can make you a tank
We didn’t know what vendetta would be since we didn’t have her standing beside most of the cast and she isn’t exactly huge with that context she just looked bigger when our comparison was a giant robot

This dudes beside a bunch of other silhouettes

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the mech character silhouette looks larger than Reinhardt, easily.

[spare fox]

don't mistake me, I'm not arguing that the big guy won't be a tank

I'm just saying be open to the unexpected too

[shrewd pivot]

For sure!

Also I'm kind of laughing at the idea some Finnish coder was like "Ah yes, the global security God ai. "Doomed fate" sounds like a great name."

(Chernobog (lit. "black god") is a personification of bad luck, dark/doomed fate, eventually became associated with the devil.)

Belobog (lit. "White God") was invented some time afterwards as a "good luck/fate" god so maybe there might be some kind of Belobog character that shows up if God ai Chernobog is involved with the eye conspiracy.

[wise grotto]

Doomed fate would fit emres design so well as he went from a purely normal life filled oerson to this battle scarred scary cybernetic covered barely in control oerson

That’s just a great extra symbolism if it@is that controlling him

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah for sure! Also interesting that Sombra escaped a "Doomed fate" then, too

[peak escarp]

they need to make a second volume to the Overwatch Cookbook

so many good nationalities to pull dishes from

the first one only went up to Wrecking Ball

[shrewd pivot]

Trueeee plus the cookbook gave some nice lore about characters too

I do wonder what makes Emre's cybernetics hackable? Like did someone force him into the mind control cybernetics, or did Emre bump into the eye conspiracy and try to run like Sombra did by getting cybernetics, but Emre wasn't able to escape in time?

[glad fox]

Is the jetpack cat likely from moon base?

[quick eagle]

wait a minute. why vendetta wants to lead talon again?
I thought she wanted vengeance for her father. but it was reaper that killed him. and he is from talon

[spare fox]

so when Antonio was killed, the rest of the Talon council seized what Antonio built - what Vendetta believed she was owed

and she was left with nothing, so she had to fight her way back up

we don't know if she knows who killed Antonio yet

she probably doesn't know, or if she does she's keeping that card up her sleeve

[quick eagle]

ohhhh okay, that makes sense then

[peak escarp]

no, she's just a stray from Earth

[wise grotto]

The way she looked at reaper tells@me otherwise but maybe

[spare fox]

yeah it's entirely possible

I wouldn't be surprised if they were saving it for some big reveal - whether the reveal is she finds out Reyes/Reaper killed Antonio or that she knew all along

[glad fox]

how does she have a human level intellect then

[spare fox]

she doesn't, she's just a silly lil guy

[shrewd pivot]

She does acknowledge that Reaper is Gabriel Reyes in game with a voice line. We don't know if she knows at the time of the "Reign of Talon" cinematic tho.

[peak escarp]

she doesn't

she just sits in the jetpack and swipes at the controls

[shrewd pivot]

Oh I hope she's not just a regular animal, jetpack cat better be a genetic experiment with high intelligence just inability to speak.

[peak escarp]

why

[glad fox]

she fcould be from moon and was just living as stray

[peak escarp]

the original concept for Jetpack Cat from the beginning was a regular cat

[shrewd pivot]

Because of worldbuilding? If regular animals can pilot machines then what's the point of Winston's and Hammond's lore.

[glad fox]

blizzzard has said that we will learn more lore on her

[wise grotto]

How does brig makinf her pet cat a jetpack invalidate Winston

[peak escarp]

how does that invalidate Winston's lore?

[wise grotto]

Like that just sounds like brig trained a cat and gave it a jetpack

[glad fox]

well if normal animals in ow are intelligent enough to fly jetpack and fight with it, why would lijiang experiment on them to make them human intelligent

[wise grotto]

Winston and ball in comparison are massively more intelligent and capable of more
That cat is literally incapable of doin any of that on there own

[wise grotto]

A cat could be taught to press buttons and move things around
Winston and ball invented there tech

[peak escarp]

the cat isn't really flying the jetpack and fighting, she's just trained to press buttons

[wise grotto]

They’re not just human intellect they wanted to make super intelligent animals and did

[peak escarp]

real cats can do that

[spare fox]

bruh it's not that deep

[brittle sky]

there is a certain breaking in the 'rules' of the setting if they go out of their way to justify winston and ball, giving them clear tie ins to the themes of the setting, then throw that out to just say 'it's a joke, don't think about it' for JPC

[glad fox]

but she is flying the jetpack and controlling it in fight

[peak escarp]

the player is

gameplay is not lore

[shrewd pivot]

Why aren't Winston and Hammond just regular animals, if a regular cat can be jetpack cat. Why is Ganymede non intelligent if Jetpack cat is higher intelligent.

If jetpack cat is a regular cat in overwatch, then that means all animals are near childlike intelligence.

That makes Soldier76 eating steak really awkward lmafo.

It would be stupid worldbuilding if a regular cat can be on par with Hammond and Winston.

[wise grotto]

But the cat isn’t doing the same things those two are
The cat didn’t invent advanced ai capable of translating them
Or build weapons or rocket ships or stuff that ground someone into the current time stream

[spare fox]

it's comic book sci-fi, don't expect everything to be 100% scientifically sound

[wise grotto]

The cat isn’t remotely on par with either of them

[glad fox]

what? thats like saying genji cannot shoot shurikens, its player doing

[wise grotto]

Again peopke can train a cat to press buttons and move knobs

Winston and ball are super geniuses

[glad fox]

not in a complicated way as flying a jetpack

[shrewd pivot]

The cat is on par with Ganymede then?

Because jetpack cat is smarter than a normal cat. Cats aren't even that smart compared to toddlers.

It breaks worldbuilding if Ganymede can drive a mech suit lol

[glad fox]

also blizzard literally said she has a backstory and they will slowly reveal it

[wise grotto]

At most yea she’d be on par with a bird except this cat was probably actively trained to do these things ganyemede is just like that

We also know very little about the cat yea

[brittle sky]

Learning the abstraction of complex controls in real life is a strain in and of itself, but the larger thing is behavior and motive. it's a huge anthropomorphization to claim a random cat would want to do anything JPC does. Even if pvp isn't 'canon', the characters are meant to do things they would do if it were - that's why they give the illusion of characters haveing larger reasons to work together or against each other.

It's a break from investing in a character with their motives, and at least for right now, it seems its papering that over with 'it's a meme don't worry about it'

[shrewd pivot]

I think Winston of all people would object to innocent animals being used for piloting devices for war lol

[wise grotto]

Winston and Hammond are smarter then a lot of the human cast of Overwatch
Winston’s one of the smartest characters in the entire game

[wise grotto]

I seriously don’t think this@cat is actually gonna be fighting in real battles

The same way zen doesn’t actually

[glad fox]

we dont know how smart the cat is

[brittle sky]

Zen would though? Like he's stated his not a pacifist

[wise grotto]

He doesn’t yet though

He hasn’t and doesn’t
He will if he has to but he has not been shown to fight yet at all

[brittle sky]

We've not seen a canon, but that's because the story mode died the moment he was set to enter it

[shrewd pivot]

My point is: if Efi isn't playable because she is a child, why is a regular cat playable.

[peak escarp]

because meme

[wise grotto]

We’re not entirely sure it is a regular cat yet but also again yea
10 year old@meme

A meme people have been asking for for 10 years and the original team said NO

[shrewd pivot]

That's stupid writing if the reason is just "meme". Hammond was a meme too, an entire shitpost, but still fit lore and expanded lore.

[wise grotto]

How do you know the cat will only stay a Meme

[shrewd pivot]

Jetpack cat has to be a genetically modified animal, or atleast not a normal cat. I can't imagine they would write something that shallow after Jetpack cat was hyped up

[peak escarp]

I don't see anything wrong with a stray cat being taken in by Brigitte and being taught how to fly a custom made jetpack

[wise grotto]

Oh probabky not at most I could see brig giving it a helmet to teach it more intelligence and gave it a jetpack

Hell we don’t even know of the cats guns can actually harm@anyome

[peak escarp]

the actual jetpack probably doesn't even have guns

it's probably just a fun thing to do around the base

[wise grotto]

Yea the cannons might actually just be like long range pawpads

[spare fox]

it's kinda like the near-future equivalent of building a cardboard tank over your roomba and putting your cat in it

[shrewd pivot]

There are entire areas of continents yet to be explored for roster heroes... but sure lets make a shallow meme a hero first?
Thoughtless Gods was actually a really decent piece of scifi writing. I would be shocked if Jetpack cat is just a shallow meme.

[peak escarp]

as I've mentioned before, many in-game abilities are not canonical

[wise grotto]

A fun loving character a large amount of people have been begging to see forever and have joked about forever wouldn’t be a thoughtless shallow meme
Many in game things aren’t canonical as well like half of zens kit

[peak escarp]

I'm shocked they made Jetpack Cat at all

but here we are

[brittle sky]

And we're actively corroding the setting by having a meme without explanation. This is a wild world, there are moon apes and a superintelligent hamster in a ball. But they made a point of reconciling that with the world.

Making a setting make sense by its own rules, even if those rules are fantastical, does a lot to make people engage with the setting. It's why people are mad at the perception Kiriko is doing magic - because people assumed this as a (soft) sci fi setting, and things are couched within some pretense of scientific reality, or that her age doesn't line up - the timelines being inconsistent breaks.

Giving an animal performing complex tasks they would not have capacity much less motive and then saying 'meme' does a similar break.

I'm not against the meme. But they've put in the effort to make the meme work previously, and I hope they do the same this time, rather than just throwing up their hands. And preemptively defending a situation where they don't bother seems a bad precedent.

[shrewd pivot]

Then why did they write Hammond as a genetically modified animal instead of just a hamster doing trained tasks? It's bc they wanted the lore to match world building.

[spare fox]

they've gone the genetic engineering route... I think they should do something like the cat belonged to a former OW member stationed at Gibraltar who died

[glad fox]

They literally said she has more lore though. Why are y'all so strongly opposing her being more than a meme

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed

[peak escarp]

I'm not opposed to it

I just don't think it's going to be that deep

[glad fox]

Why would they hide it then

[brittle sky]

(spy for hypatia pretending to be a normal cat goooo)

[peak escarp]

have they given us the full lore for any of the other 4 heroes?

[wise grotto]

That could be said for all 5. Of the heroes releasing other then domina

[peak escarp]

they've given a short description for all of them

the rest of the lore will come later

[glad fox]

We know who emre and anran are

[peak escarp]

because they existed in the lore before this

[wise grotto]

We don’t know anything about anran properly

We just know she’s related to her brother is a prodigy and uses fire

[glad fox]

She was mentioned in wuyang lore where she helped him fight during null sector attack iirc

[wise grotto]

Yea but we know very little about her

Emre is a massive amount of lore around him and that’s a rabbit hole in itself I’d almost think it would be funny if they waited longer to release his lore vod

But most characters lore vods don’t come out before they’re available especially wouodnt if there’s 5. To release

[glad fox]

They also told mizukis backstory

[peak escarp]

they're not really hiding JPC's lore like it's some kind of secret, they just said "more will come later"

[brittle sky]

They also notably straight up didn't describe her kit beyond like two abilities

[peak escarp]

they showed her kit on the stream

like, the hero info page

[wise grotto]

Because they wanted us to see it for ourselves and kinda literally said that
And then we got to see multiple people play the kit

[brittle sky]

they showed it, but didn't describe it in the talk. Was just saying them not talking as much about her was reflected to a lesser extent in the kit

[shrewd pivot]

If jetpack cat is a normal cat, that implies regular animals in overwatch are much much more intelligent than real life. That makes Anubis going rogue and coming to the conclusion of wiping out humanity to not just protect the ecosystem from humanity's destruction, but an ecosystem of essentially child level intelligent+ animals, completely logical and moral and lol that would be ridiculous.

Jetpack cat cannot just be a regular cat. Otherwise Cassidy's pig butchery factory lore is legit atrocious (pigs already have pretty high intelligence irl)

[brittle sky]

I'm not trying to critique them about it. Just recognizing the pattern of not talking about her in depth applied to both lore and kit

[peak escarp]

real life animals are smart enough to be trained and we eat them

[wise grotto]

That doesn’t imply that outright csuse it can also literally just imply “brig trained a cat to do a bunch of specific things”
I have seen cats solve complex puzzles for rewards in the real world and mice beat games

[peak escarp]

To be clear, all of Jetpack Cat's abilities stem from the jet-propulsion rig that she flies around in. It was invented by another hero, Brigitte, who brought in Fika as a stray cat and outfitted her with a flying contraption.

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch is an optumistic future, I would like to think people in overwatch aren't eating jetpack cats cousins for lunch right beside her lmafo

[peak escarp]

Earlier iterations of Jetpack Cat envisioned the feline as either a heroic special agent or as a lazy fat cat who used the jetpack like a La-Z-Boy. The final version, set to be released on Feb. 10 with Overwatch season 1, presents Fika as an inquisitive house cat who plays with her jetpack like a toy.

from the Polygon article, which also details her kit

[wise grotto]

So it’s just a toy and the stuff we do with her in game is not as complex as she’s capable of and this is essentially at best just a cat that presses buttons and learned which buttons do the things it likes eventually

[peak escarp]

"We already have two animal characters in the game," he explained. "Winston's basically a human, he was very intelligent as an ape. And then Hammond, he's actually very intelligent. He just speaks through his robot. So we also wanted a cat not to be that. It's not another animal that had some scientific experiment that made [her] smart. [...] People who own cats, you realize [that] we feed them, we change their little box, we allow them to sit in our laps. They're smarter than they appear. We wanted to inject that. How do we make this cat that looks suspiciously smart, basically?"

this basically confirms that she's just a regular cat that was trained to push buttons

[shrewd pivot]

That's such a shallow character writing if she is just a regular cat wtf

L for the overwatch writers, sorry

[peak escarp]

not every hero can be a masterclass in backstory

[brittle sky]

operating abstracted controls to respond to complex situations, much less use those driven by intrinsic motives against the inherent danger of open combat. Like, my wife is an animal behaviorist. Animals can do a lot when it's an extension of their natural behavior or in contexts where we train and motivate them. But that's specific and both context and species dependent. Cats can be smart - in the context of their behavior. They can be trained to do certain things through careful rewarding. But it's a massive misunderstanding in the shape and motives of feline intelligence to project this sort of behavior, even if it's meant to be partially... accidental, or whatever the lore blurbs say

[wise grotto]

It isn’t going to be I. Combat ever it directly says it’s a toy it uses@just randomly around bade

Like
Your acting like the gameplay is dead on the nose on what the cats gonna do when it just isn’t going to and isn’t capable of it and the thing it’s in isn’t built for it

[brittle sky]

That's relying really heavily on saying effectively that the character is noncanon

[wise grotto]

Half of what zenyatta does is

[brittle sky]

idk, seems like a bad slope. Why not just have the next persona collab straight up have joker from persona 5 as a new character.

[shrewd pivot]

Echo and Orisa aren't awakened omnics (presumably non sapient) but have more life to them than a meowing cat. If the writers played that route of cats being smart, why didn't they have her use Morse code to tap, or use pet buttons with "Treat!" "Playtime" etc to show animal intelligence. You know. To make it actually fun to see her interact with heroes. Bastion already covers noise emotive whistling + a heart felt story involving a bird nesting in Bastion as refuge. Jetpack cat meowing adds nothing new.

[wise grotto]

Because joker doesn’t exist in the world as a character In any capacity

Sigma isn’t mentally stable enough to fight like that why isn’t that an issue

Then makinf it so the cats thing is capable of more then what it’s actually capable of is a thing that’s been done more then once in ow before

[peak escarp]

I look forward to all the heroes interacting with JPC

[brittle sky]

why does that line matter vs. 'this will never happen and is a wild misinterpretation of an animal that would never do this and could never do this doing this all in perfect functionality'

[peak escarp]

to see who likes cats and who doesn't

[brittle sky]

feels like a very doc checklist to have

[peak escarp]

apparently there's an Anran interaction about having allergies

[shrewd pivot]

Zenyatta canonically floats and is canonically a sapient robot, that kind of canon matters.

If jetpack cat's entire hero identity in game (intelligent cat using tools) isn't canon to the story, why make her a hero? She does nothing for lore.

[wise grotto]

Because there’s no way someone as deranged and lost could also be interpreted as capable of the complex things he does
A cat that I. Lore flys around having fun with a jetpack toy isn’t that wild with zenyatta not even being able to create the orbs he uses and his ult those 3 are just fully non canon

[brittle sky]

the marvel rivals style specific hero team ups some people were crowing about happens but it's just anran goes into anaphylactic shock if she stands next to an allied JPC for too long.

[wise grotto]

Jetpack cats canon is a cat who flys around hitting buttons on a toy
Sigma is a crazy person who has bought of Being sane enough to be a normal person but could also very well snap randomly
In the game we play none of these heroes are stuck by the limitations of what they actually are because the game demands it as so

Pretty sure as example we know for a fact zenyattas ult especially is just not real at all

[shrewd pivot]

It would be like all the heroes talking to Ganymede instead of Bastion. "I like this animal bc X" "I dislike this animal X". That isn't meaningful lol it's a waste of roster space.

Jetpack can't just be a regular cat, if she is actually an overwatch agent on duty in canon, overwatch is using animal soldiers. There's a reason Murphy isn't a roster hero lmao.

[wise grotto]

It doesn’t do anything remotely like what it does

[peak escarp]

but Ganymede isn't a playable hero

JPC is

[wise grotto]

How can she not just be a regular cat if she’s NOT a soldier
Not being used in actual combat

The gameplay is in like no way canon except for how most of the weapons work
But only partially

[peak escarp]

animal soldiers, like the police use?

[shrewd pivot]

Then Murphy can be a hero. Which would be stupid to do, because that does nothing for lore.

[peak escarp]

tbh I wouldn't be mad if they made Murphy a hero (I wouldn't like shooting her though)

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think Winston would approve of using child/animal soldiers. It's an optumistic future.

[wise grotto]

Murphy isn’t a hero looked ant talked about and cared about for 10 years

And one that was designed to a degree

[shrewd pivot]

Jetpack cat had concept art that showed a suit, it's like hammonds amd implies the cat isn't just a regular cat. https://static0.polygonimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/chorus/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9607925/jetpack_cat.png

[bold fern]

@wise grotto do u think doom lost on purpose so he can test talon's loyality? he dosent fully trust his team since hes at the highest position, but at his lowest, who would stay?

[wise grotto]

Back then it was that
On a massivelt different design and art and writing team

You might have maybe 2-3 people who are the same there

Max

[peak escarp]

that concept art was from Hammond's development, it doesn't mean that it applies to the current JPC

[wise grotto]

And that’s Hammond concept art

[wise grotto]

I think it’s a test of himself
If he’s grown too soft the conflict will make him simply better and capable of beating someone who will put up a true and raw right and also to force Overwatch to grow properly now that there reforming

[bold fern]

after his arm got chopped off he could admit defeat but he charged to his "death", to see who truly cared if he was dethroned

doom knows when to retreat from a lost fight

[brittle sky]

testing who your friends are by getting couped

[wise grotto]

Not if he’s trying to prove a point
Especially cause she would have just executed him if he tried to give in

And you kinda can’t survive a direct execution via sword

[shrewd pivot]

Right! So people wanted what they were shown years ago because it was creative and fun, and.... we get something completely different, a pandering "meme". The Jetpack doesn't have compelling shape use. The cat doesn't talk or have cartoony emotions like prior concept art. It's not the Jetpack Cat, it's a cat using a drone.

You can get animal heroes using tech in litterally any other game. Jeff the landshark is more compelling.

[bold fern]

he could run away like in the orisa rematch, not sure if vend would chase

doom was jusr in her way

killing doom was a side quest

[wise grotto]

He lost the fist and him running isn’t very much conflict
Especially not compared to the big one that happened the first time where he lost limbs and had to be rebuilt

[peak escarp]

that concept art was ideation for a Horizon experiment - in the end, we got Hammond instead

there was also a concept for an alligator with a jetpack

saying that JPC has to be that concept art is like saying that D.Va was originally a child because her concepts included a pre-teen mech pilot

[bold fern]

ppl will be with you at ur best but who stays when ur at ur lowest

[wise grotto]

He has to know Moira dnd Mauga are kinda just there for fights and funding

[wise grotto]

Not every character needs to be super compelling
Like
Is it not fine to have exactly 1 character who isn’t this super compelling deep character and is just a love for cats personified into a hero

[bold fern]

charging to his death just dosent seem doom like, kinda reckless

[shrewd pivot]

"But at the time, Kaplan said, the flying cat didn't feel like a good fit for Overwatch's narrative. Jetpack Cat "felt like we were slipping out of the universe," Kaplan explained at BlizzCon 2017, where he revealed early concept art of the then-scrapped character."

And if JPC is just a regular cat, he was right. Lmafo

[wise grotto]

He also has been told by Mauga he might be getting soft maybe he wants to put himself through more conflict and this was the easiest way to do that
Make her arrogant and over confident
Rebuild himself stronger and better
And then show her what a proper leader is at the end after she’s managed to run Overwatch through the ringer properly

[bold fern]

has to be a motive

[wise grotto]

Jeff Kaplan also is the reason for the 2 in Overwatch and over promising on pve

And then leaving to let a new person deal with blizzard cancelling it and makinf the new person take the fall for it

I’m sorry Kaplan was not exactly what I’d call the best in any regard

Again why is it bad out of THIS MANY super deep in-depth compelling characters is it horrible and world destroying to have one love for cats goofy character

Who’s the other goofy hero
Junkrat and that’s it cause everyone else is deep and compelling

[bold fern]

it does feel like he purposely let vend rise up to power, sombra must have warned him countless times

[shrewd pivot]

I never saud Kaplan was right about management.

It's just that overwatch 1 was fairly grounded in pulp fiction scifi / cinema refs.

For example, not a single ow1 hero felt ooc for the worldbuilding

[wise grotto]

That’s cause for a long time the world building didn’t do much with any of them I’ll be honest

And like
Junkrat never being caught didn’t make sense back then but never mattered csuse it’s the funny explosions man

[peak escarp]

we will just have to wait and see what her full lore is - and I have faith in the writers to make it make sense within the world

whatever it ends up being

[bold fern]

oh yeah the cat cant speak sadly

[peak escarp]

oh she must have had so much fun recording that

...my cat Cassidy just came to investigate the noise

[azure flint]

first hero that doesnt actually speak?

[shrewd pivot]

In ow1 they didn't add a single character power that wasn't explained by scifi super powers (soldier76 super soldier program explaining his athletics in old age) or cinema camp (cass being a good shot). And they confirmed zen ult/harmony discord, mercy rez, and reaper souls were just game mechanics.

If JPC is just a normal cat her entire CHARACTER is just game mechanics. She is ooc.
I will believe JPC is not just a normal cat, until we get official lore release.

[azure flint]

ball makes noises but they get translated

[shrewd pivot]

Bastion too

[peak escarp]

Bastion

[azure flint]

second right

totally blanked him

well now he's not so lonely

imagine they have an interaction

[shrewd pivot]

JPC tries to eat Ganymede, probably lol.

[peak escarp]

fun fact - Bastion's beeps and whistles are actually voiced by Chris Metzen and put through a filter

[bold fern]

bee boo bee poo booop

meow meoowww meow moew

[azure flint]

them getting actual cat meows and wtv would've been even better

[bold fern]

can u show ur cat cassidy if u dont mind

[bold fern]

like stray?

they hire real cats

[azure flint]

real stray cat voicing jetpack cat

for extra immersion

[azure flint]

cat knows more lore than most ow players

[peak escarp]

and his sister, Ashe

[bold fern]

name ur next cat akande

[peak escarp]

they're 3 years old and they are my children

[peak escarp]

nerd

[spare fox]

I've had a hc since early OW1 days where Bastion sees Brig playing with her cats, dangling a string in front of them to play, so Bastion starts dangling a string in front of Ganymede

and Gany is just like :> ?

[shrewd pivot]

Awww that's cute

Considering Ganymede eats insects, a worm string is probably a fun toy for him haha

[azure flint]

if bastion got a mythic what would they change ganymede into

[spare fox]

honestly idk how birds play.. i mean I know they like to chew on ropes and ring bells and stuff

I think ganymede would be a customizable element in a bastion mythic

[peak escarp]

they mentioned changing JPC's coat pattern with each skin, sometimes making her look like the cats belonging to T4 members

Ganymede's reskins are my favourite part of Bastion's skins, so I'm excited for this

[bold fern]

bastion getting mythic...

2ND JUNO MYTHIC IT IS

[azure flint]

turning ganymede into a robo bird for his mirrorwatch skin is cute

[shrewd pivot]

Depends greatly on the species! Species- appropriate Bird baths are a fun thing for all species, and hollow hole bell balls, plastic lids, and chew toys like ropes or paper usually are enjoyable for birds with high intelligence.

Ganymede is based on a citrine wagtail (they have long beaks to prod marshy areas, eat mostly insects), but Ganymede's beak is more indicative of seed eaters, fat and rounded. I imagine Ganymede would like forage based toys he can peck at and move around. Sticks too, for building nests.

[bold fern]

chef bastion skin and ganymede is a chicken leg

[spare fox]

OMG noooo

[shrewd pivot]

😭 nooooo

[peak escarp]

lol that would be hilarious

rotisserie chicken Ganymede

[shrewd pivot]

That would be really fun!

[leaden monolith]

when did this happen?

[peak escarp]

a little out of date, but here's all Ganymede's skins up to 2023 https://youtu.be/H517_hMjbZM

[azure flint]

was talking abt this skin

[peak escarp]

I appreciate the fact that they changed his call to match the birds

[azure flint]

from the mirrorwatch season in 2024

but we def need more bastion skins

[shrewd pivot]

The only thing that will be saving Ganymede is the fact JPC is too chonker to jump properly. Well, I guess the only thing saving JPC from Bastion's wrath for catching Ganymede lmafo.

Actually wasn't there a voiceline between Sojourn and Mercy about Mercy feeding scraps to Murphy?

[wise grotto]

Yes it was hilariously the most personality she had before she got her own lore drop

[peak escarp]

    Sojourn: Oh, you know... surviving.
    Mercy: And how's Murphy?
    Sojourn: Doing much better, now that you aren't feeding her scraps all the time.```

[wise grotto]

god soj at the early ow2 era was a painfully bland character

[shrewd pivot]

Mercy is probably feeding JPC scraps then... 😭

[peak escarp]

no wonder she's a chonker

[wise grotto]

Mercy probabky feeds all of brigs cats scraps you’ve seen mitzi

Mitzi’s huge

[spare fox]

RE: JPC interactions, I wonder if Juno and Junkrat are going to be afraid of her

[wise grotto]

juno def will

[spare fox]

they both got voicelines that indicate they're afraid of cats during that cat season

tho tbf, we have no clue what junkertown cats are like lol

[wise grotto]

If they even have cats

[shrewd pivot]

Mitzi is a breed of cat that is super floofy, Mitzi is okay!

It's dark humor of me to call JPC chonker, tbf. Obese pets (unless it's a medical condition) aren't funny, it's animal neglect.

[peak escarp]

you don't have to be so serious

[wise grotto]

We know but mitzi has some weight she’s just a very large cat to she’s half brigs size

She’s gotta be part Maine coon

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's the cat breed that gets super large and floofy.

[wise grotto]

Mhm
So she’s gotta be a mix of those

[shrewd pivot]

Do we have confirmation for what breed Mitzi is?

Not that it matters, considering Ganymede isn't a citrine wagtail (beak, cardinal tuft, markings). Maybe just a hybrid.

[peak escarp]

Mitzi was almost jetpack cat

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the art book said that image was an homage to JPC

[peak escarp]

but no, we don't have a breed for Mitzi

probably just Domestic Longhair (the placeholder breed that doesn't really exist)

[spare fox]

probably just a mixed breed, brig has a thing for strays we know

[shrewd pivot]

Actually, since people do clone thier pets, for copium you could headcanon that Mitzi might still be with Brigitte in a way, just clones lol. Would explain the emotes of older Brigitte with Mitzi.

[peak escarp]

or they've developed life extension therapies for pets so we don't have to experience the heartbreak of losing them

[shrewd pivot]

OW 9 lives immortality cat, but at what cost... /j

[peak escarp]

I would give anything to never have to say goodbye to my cats

I've already experienced the loss of two dogs

[wise grotto]

Same

[shrewd pivot]

I feel that. My condolences.
My late dog grew up with me, he was like a little brother to me (certain dog breeds are as intelligent as 2 year old humans, you could really tell with that little guy.)

[bold fern]

young brig was alr taller than her dad lol

[peak escarp]

I wish we could see Torb's other kids

just give us a Lindholm family photo

[shrewd pivot]

I would love a detailed look at all the families one day. The Christmas comic only had that far away shot at the table, and you can't really discern face shapes bc of the comic style giving everyone similar faces.

[spare fox]

hopefully we get more details about them trickled in with lore drops

[peak escarp]

a while ago I made a guide to the big family dinner from Together (you might have to open the image in a browser to read the text)

[shrewd pivot]

This is awesome thank you

[dusk wraith]

Awww! This is so cute

[shrewd pivot]

would be really fun to edit/redraw this table scene with more accurate designs one day if we ever get 2d art/3d models of the families that show face shapes. I want to know what Lucio’s dad looks like, I wonder how similar he looks to his son.

[peak escarp]

I want to know why his mother is never mentioned

is she dead? divorced? deadbeat?

[shrewd pivot]

Favelas, I'm thinking maybe not the best access to healthcare, so maybe she passed away.

[sleek prairie]

What’s the lore on the omnic Titan? I can’t find where it’s made or what’s its armaments or how it moves

[shrewd pivot]

Torbjörn invented the Titans to be construction robots, but then during the crisis the Titans were used by Anubis to attack humanity iirc. And then during Null sector invasion, Torbjörn in codex texts gives details on how Nullsector used just the outer shell of Titans with different internals, and how Nullsector Titans were covered in cold resistant armor/sealant or something like that.

[azure flint]

we are getting this again this december 🙏

[sleek prairie]

Yeah from the PVE text and that’s it, weapons are always different from Lore comics cinematic ect

[sleek prairie]

Can you help me with the campaign?

[spare fox]

yes w even more heroes!! 🙏 🙏🙏

[sleek prairie]

Not Ram tho

[spare fox]

Ram can be like

w a little charlie brown tree in antarctica

[shrewd pivot]

I would, but unfortunately I don't play anymore because ow uses genai (chatgpt style LLM text in weekly recalls, etc)

I still really like overwatch lore tho so I am sticking around for new story bits.

[peak escarp]

the devs have denied using any genAI

https://vxtwitter.com/GameSpot/status/2019127667899961722?s=20

GameSpot (@GameSpot)

Overwatch 2 director Aaron Keller speaks out against adding AI-generated content to the game.

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Feb 4, 2026, 7:15 PM

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. They are lying. The past weekly recall posts use genai LLM text.
As an artist, it is obvious the Wuyang chibi esports spray where he is gaming on the pc, used genai in its creation, the keyboard has ai artifacting.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is just my personal choice to not play games that use genai, no hate to anyone else who plays it. I watch my friends play.

[peak escarp]

I disagree

they say they aren't using it and I believe them

accusing everyone of using AI without any proof is really damaging

[wise grotto]

What’s the spray

The only esports spray I can find with a keyboard doesn’t even have wuyang

I geniunely can’t find the spray this could be referring to

There’s no wuyang playing games spray anywhere in here

[peak escarp]

this one

[wise grotto]

I found the spray and
If there’s a I wild notable spots I cannot find nor see them it just looks like it was bought and a lazy and cheap one at worst

[shrewd pivot]

Zoom in on the keyboard, the smeared shaoes are ai artifacting. Look at the points of eyelashes, one has one, the other doesn't and has a dot. Look at the artifacting on the dot by the overwatch logo.

[wise grotto]

If I recall most sprays aren’t even in-house either
Like
A solid 90% of them

The logos the only one that’s actually clear and doesn’t look like a mistake

[shrewd pivot]

The Juno and Venture one is also obvious with ai artifacting

[shrewd pivot]

Zoom in on the dot on the logo

The weekly recalls have had some very stilted and awkward texts, indicative of genai text to the point comments were even mentioning it.

[wise grotto]

I just said it’s actually clear there

[peak escarp]

I don't see it either

the Weekly Recalls read fine to me

[shrewd pivot]

There is fluff text, especially when text is about skins, that uses odd metaphors that is indicative of LLM use.

There was one that was about drives. Let me find it

[wise grotto]

It never shows the trope of ai writing the odd metaphors are there but I’ve never seen the rule of 3 situation used way too often

Which is ai writings biggest issue
Over explaining and the rule of 3

[stable sundial]

I’m pretty sure blizzard came out and said that the sprays were made by a 3rd party vendor that used AI and that’s why the Juno and venture ones were taken down

[peak escarp]

do you have a source for that?

all I could find was that Blizzard said they didn't use AI and the sprays were drawn by a person

[stable sundial]

No I just saw the conversation and remembered a TikTok I saw

[peak escarp]

ah tiktok

my nemesis

an astounding amount of misinformation comes from tiktok

[stable sundial]

There’s a tweet overwatch posted

“We appreciate that the community brought this to our attention as it was missed before being posted. This came from Blizzard's e-commerce vendor. We expect images such as this to be artist-made, in alignment with our policy. We've informed them of this policy. The post has been deleted”

[peak escarp]

hm

[shrewd pivot]

I wish I could post images to explain this better.
There's a beige triangle on Venture's right eye, that is an ai artifact. Also both Venture's and Juno's hairstyles are drawn incorrectly, genai notoriously messes up things like that when making 2d images of 3d models.

[stable sundial]

I’m not defending it I’m just saying they admitted to it being AI and removed it because they thought the 3rd party vendor understood their policies

[peak escarp]

drawing something incorrectly isn't really indicative of AI use

several of the comics have art errors

[wise grotto]

No these two sprays are just objectively ai

[peak escarp]

the artist for the Reflections comic from 2016 forgot Roadhog's belly tattoo

[wise grotto]

No human can make the errors

[shrewd pivot]

The beige triangle is not something that would organically happen in a mistake like drawing. It's genai artifacting

[wise grotto]

But we’ve also never see anything of that particular ass art style again csuse of it

[peak escarp]

my point still stands

Blizzard/T4 themselves don't use AI

but I guess they're bad at spotting it in 3rd party work

[wise grotto]

They probably never checked third party work until AFTER that one

[stable sundial]

I just play overwatch to forget about how shitty everything else is so unless they put out AI art into the game and openly admit to using it then I don’t care at this point

[wise grotto]

Cause there was never one before or after that’s had the issue

At least it’s not like the finals where it’s just a fancy tts program that they call ai

Ruining there own public perception cause buzzwords funny

[iron vigil]

this is def ai, as an artist we don't leave smeared stuff in artworks like that. Yeah we forget to draw some things and etc but leaving in badly smeared parts of the art is something i myself don't see anyone doing.

[peak escarp]

ew I touched it

[iron vigil]

? i jus dropped in, simply adding my 2 cents

[peak escarp]

nah you're fine

I just hate AI

[iron vigil]

same, it sucks that a lot of companies and etc are resorting to it rather than trying to hire real artist

and writers, lotta people losing their jobs to ai

[wise grotto]

In these cases it’s more bliz not double checking the third party art work and sending it out without second thought on the sprays

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah

Im trying to specifically find the weekly recall that had some bizzare metaphor around drives, but I can't find it atm, still looking.

In the meantime, here is an example of some suspect text:

"This Mythic is drenched in drama, Cassidy’s cool confidence, and a sacred celestial blaze. When you unholster this one, you won’t just feel powerful. You feel divine."

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24247510/give-the-gift-of-vengeance-in-season-20-vendetta/

[peak escarp]

sounds fine to me

they like using alliteration

[wise grotto]

No the rule of 3 (a writing strat ai is addicted to) gets used multiple times throughout this
This reads like two people worked on parts but only 1 of them used ai the whole time

[peak escarp]

that's not really proof though

a human could still write that

[wise grotto]

It’s not proof but it’s also really hard for a human to accidentally repeatedly do the same writing style with barelt sensical metaphors in sets of 3 THAT often in specific sections but the. Write perfectly normally otherwise

It’s hard to accidentally write like that csuse it’s a really shitty way to write

Buit also for a person isn’t easy to do since you’d have to think of all these metaphors to go back to back and then not notice how bad it sounds read out

Both mythic cass and the weapon plus the intro paragraph in particular are just
Awful

[peak escarp]

the bad metaphors are just alliterations, something the writers use often

[shrewd pivot]

Found it, very suspect, genai text imo:

"Every game matters. Wins carry extra weight. Losses sting. And if you can keep your streak alive, you’ll walk away with exclusive Signatures, Comp Points, and bragging rights that say, “I thrived when it was sweaty.” This isn’t just ranked; it’s ranked with the volume cranked while you Drive."
The last line makes no sense within the context of the paragraph, and is a random metaphor genai LLMs would make.

"It isn't just X, it's X" is indicative of genai LLMs.
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24234069/undefined/

[wise grotto]

The pacing and way they’re written aren’t a “writers use often” case the only other examples of writing I can think of like this come from a game literally written by ai

[wise grotto]

Ok that’s gibberish

That
Is actual gibberish

the one thing I have an actual talent for is writing and that is so so gibberish it makes the first one actually look normal csuse the first one at least is on topic with weird words consistentk

Honestly comparing these this one is def ai the other one i can benefit of the doubt it

[peak escarp]

none of this is proof

it's all just subjective opinions

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. This post used to have comments where people were discussing the gen ai use, but not it has 0 comments.

It's extremely suspect

Enough that it makes me say, yeah it's genai

[wise grotto]

That one in particular unless the persons literally not aware of what drives are they could not have typed that out and actually thought it made sense

Like
Best case they where tripping balls on lsd or shrooms

[shrewd pivot]

So that news post + the esports spray had me stop playing. I have OCD so it's like, a moral rule/compulsion I have, I don't play games that use genai. I don't judge others fir still playing overwatch, I am aware I have a very extreme rule for myself.

[peak escarp]

so you are having your cake and eating it too

[shrewd pivot]

How so?

[peak escarp]

you're keeping your moral highground while still engaging with the thing you refuse to play

[wise grotto]

“I thrived when it was sweaty this isn’t just ranked it’s ranked with the volume cranked while you drive”

Like
What and how does that make any sense in any way

[shrewd pivot]

Am I financially supporting it? Nope. Am I giving it player numbers? Nope.

[peak escarp]

you're still engaging with it

[wise grotto]

In this case they are actively not supporting anything on it
You can make this argument if they where supporting it in literally any way

This is like having a conversation about Harry Potter without owning or buying anything related to it

[shrewd pivot]

Reading media and discussing media is not immoral.

[shrewd pivot]

Exactly. And this is discord, so it's not like I am advertising it to the open web.

[peak escarp]

I just know that if I was that against something that I was going to boycott it, I would boycott the whole thing, not just part of it

anyway, this isn't really lore anymore

[wise grotto]

Boycotting involved cutting off all support of a thing
Them literally in no way supporting a thing quite literally is a full boycott if nothing they do is giving it money

[shrewd pivot]

I think it's unhealthy to think doing media analysis is immoral. It's how you learn new things.

For example, Lovecraft is an extremely flawed person, but reading the media to learn how it has shaped the genre of science fiction is not immoral. Discussing the media with others is not immoral, as long as you provide the whole context.

It's fair to say this about a liveservice ip though. Thus why I went to discord and not open web, as to not advertise it any further.

[peak escarp]

okay

[shrewd pivot]

I've also met some incredible people through overwatch as a special interest, long lasting friendships. Very fun omnic ocs that explore creative writing about scifi :) it's the feel good stuff.

I've also learned a ton going through all the media that has inspired overwatch heroes, really fun stuff.

The eye conspiracy is of interest to me, because my rewrite project can't happen until we know the big conspiracy haha. I hope it's something fun

[peak escarp]

okay

[heavy thistle]

how tf did doomfist actually loose to Vendetta

he has the doom fist

[peak escarp]

plot reasons

[heavy thistle]

that thing is strong af

[heavy thistle]

can we just fire all the overwatch writers

please

[peak escarp]

rude

you should at least see where the story goes

[heavy thistle]

true

you right

[peak escarp]

it's not like he's dead

[heavy thistle]

im just hating

[peak escarp]

he'll have a glorious return before the end of the year

mark my words

[heavy thistle]

hes gunna come back as hopefist and join overwatch

watch my line

[polar osprey]

Hopefist lmao

[heavy thistle]

TRUST

[peak escarp]

that would be interesting

[heavy thistle]

[peak escarp]

I actually would like to see him ally with Overwatch to take down Vendetta

[heavy thistle]

Im telling you

get me in the studio

[polar osprey]

then what? walk right back to his jail cell?

[peak escarp]

not your bro

[heavy thistle]

mb

[peak escarp]

probably betray them right at the end and restore the status quo

[shrewd pivot]

#Hopefist whenever we get hints Akande is still out there in lore in the future haha

[heavy thistle]

hes gunna fly back up with jetpack cat

[polar osprey]

Yes. Jetpack cat with the assist

[heavy thistle]

literally

[shrewd pivot]

Doomfist has committed war crimes the only thing he's seeing with overwatch is a jail (with thicker walls)

[heavy thistle]

but like

hopefist

[shrewd pivot]

True.... /j

[polar osprey]

I need to know what happend to my goat Erme

[heavy thistle]

techinically if u think about it
this is all reapers fault

he killed her dad

[shrewd pivot]

Doomed by the narrative #Chernobog. Or, something like that I am guessing. The Godai Chernobog is for global security, Oasis is involved with the eye conspiracy and uses 'minority report' security ai, and Emre was looking in security systems when he was in overwatch + has the eye conspiracy eye on his chest.

[polar osprey]

But I don't see your name as Number one Reaper hater

[peak escarp]

a lot of things are Reaper's fault

[polar osprey]

This is true

[shrewd pivot]

It genuinely is hysterical bc Reyes is about Antonio even tho it caused Blackwatch/og overwatch downfall.
But now Reaper is like "oh." watching Vendetta cause the downfall of Talon lmaoooo

One itchy trigger finger doomed the world, thanks Reyes.

[polar osprey]

Antonio really hit the must insane Rage bait on reaper though. just said "if you arrest me my allies will have me out in days" and reaper just shot him

[heavy thistle]

im number 2

#1 Ramattra Lover tho

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, that is indeed how the mafia works. Bribes all the way up.

I like how Reaper's choice has impacted so much, ties very well into overwatch's core message with Aurora being "chose wisely."

[peak escarp]

Reyes was normally a careful and methodical planner... he went in to kidnap Antonio, not kill him... but Antonio did provoke him, and because of Moira's treatments, he couldn't control his temper...

so really it's Moira's fault

[shrewd pivot]

A fellow being of fine taste. Ramattra lore may you return gloriously in the next year(s)

[polar osprey]

to late for him broski. he's been iced. (literally)

[shrewd pivot]

Nah he's just chillin.

[polar osprey]

lol

[shrewd pivot]

Wait I can't recall, Moira's treatments did actually cause Reaper to have anger issues? That's very interesting.

Honestly have we ever gotten indication on how Reaper's mind stays in tact when he goes misty (like through cracks, etc)? I have to assume some kind of tech is preserving his mind or something, because he can control the mist.

Also also, cosmic crisis set on the map it was, was a Lovecraft reference because entities are frozen in the arctic in some stories.

Ramattra in lore going to the arctic has me thinking that the cosmic crisis may have been a repurposed pve content.

[peak escarp]

it's soft scifi, I doubt they'll ever explain it

[shrewd pivot]

Superhero scifi likes to be vague i agree. I was just curious Ty tho

[heavy thistle]

Does Talon hate null sector?

They do right?

[shrewd pivot]

It seems like Doomfist leading Talon funded Null sector to cause chaos.

[heavy thistle]

[polar osprey]

they had a partnership

[heavy thistle]

Did he have his powers when the whole black watch incident happened?

[shrewd pivot]

Would be hilarious if Vendetta took over and Ramattra's card declines lmao. But I imagine Ramattra's done what he's wanted and is now chillin in the arctic with the preserved omnic minds to wait the whole "humanity ending war" deal out.

[heavy thistle]

I lowkey sucks that we’ll never be able to play the archive missions again, I loved those

[shrewd pivot]

I believe so. Moira had done something to hime to make him a little misty.

When the Swiss HQ blew up, Moira technically saved him with the same sorta deal, but Reyes turned into Reaper as a consequence.

[heavy thistle]

because I’m tryna remember if he’s always been angry or after the powers

Because I know when he uses his powers it hurts

like REAALLY hurts

[iron vigil]

i think he was always pissy since cass/jessie didn't have a good relationship with him back in blackwatch as he wasn't a good team player and he was always arguing with jack

[shrewd pivot]

I don't know tbh. He was death blossoming without powers in the omnic crisis lol. (Genesis short) but it's probably just exaggerated

[iron vigil]

i think he still makes comments about gabe's attitude in game dialogue

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I think Reyes probably felt undermined since Jack was chosen as leader.

[iron vigil]

yep pretty much, he really didn't like being put to run blackwatch if i remember correctly

[heavy thistle]

true

but it does hurt to use his powers righ?

or am I dumb

[iron vigil]

it does, he's in constant pain

[keen summit]

Guys

I have a theory on the bog meka

[iron vigil]

he just got used to it

[keen summit]

What if its a mix of all the mekas

[iron vigil]

he asks moira in game dialouge if she has anything for this pain

[shrewd pivot]

I really wonder why Reyes went from deleting Antonio for justice to wanting to kill overwatch agents as Reaper though. Can't really wrap my head around that beyond "a little too misty in the brain"

[keen summit]

Thecspikeyness reminds me of the yellow one

Its horns/ spoilers look like casinos

The weapons are dmons

[iron vigil]

i think he was just too jealous of jack, that's what it feels like but it really is a jump

[keen summit]

What if its a perfect mix of all mekas

[iron vigil]

i also feel like he just wanted to see maybe if moira could help him?

but i don't understand how he'll go to moira yet refuses the help mercy keeps offering him

since she tells him, she could fix him

[shrewd pivot]

It could be? It's hard to tell though so it could be anything. To me, it looks different from MEKA but idk.

Maybe the new Finnish map will give clues.

[shrewd pivot]

Self punishment probably. Reaper doesn't exactly sleep easy. He misses his wife and kid

[keen summit]

What if its not meka but actually kishin copying Meka

[iron vigil]

i think so too, i know he hates what he's become

[shrewd pivot]

I would love more gwishin lore.

Since Chernobog seems to be a focus, maybe it's related to that?

But idk, the mech is hard to tell what area it might come from. It's very angular and humanoid. Reminds me of the Russian mechs, but it really could be anything

[keen summit]

Its not chernobog

Chernobog was a kind ai

[shrewd pivot]

I meamt related to Chernobog in some way, mb, not the actual Godai

[keen summit]

So why would it copy soecifically dmons weapons

[keen summit]

Hmm maybe

[shrewd pivot]

Ohhh ok I get what you mean. The two green energy weapons shaoes i thought looked like fan shaped knives, not d.mon shield. But I see what you mean now, it could bery well be d.mon weapons.

[iron vigil]

i ngl do hope that the old talon members will maybe go looking for Doom. I feel like sombra would be the person to do so since she is a really caring person despite her self serving methods but idk i personally feel like despite everyone in talon being evil jerks, their dialogue suggests that they care about each other in a way and to me it kinda feels like a family dynamic or a hate/ appreciate coworker and boss relationship.

ofc i believe moira and mauga don't care but i feel like widow, reaper, and sombra are more loyal

[keen summit]

So the angular designs from beast, spoiler from casino, dmons weapons

[shrewd pivot]

True, but doomfist was also a pretty evil villain. Sombra cares for sigma because sigma is being manipulated without understanding his situation.
I can still see Sombra trying to look for Akande though

[iron vigil]

He was but they stuck by him for so long that i don't see them dropping their loyalty so quickly and yeah she does care for sigma a lot but she has hangouts with a lot of character's in talon, outside of talon, she even has fun a voiceline towards doom in spanish and i think others but she does out her way to help people even if it's benefitting herself and even when it isn't

but yeah, i hope maybe

[shrewd pivot]

Sombra basically sticks around people that server her interests, and for a time Talon was the group that helped Sombra pursue uncovering "who really pulls the strings" (which im guessing involves the eye conspiracy)

Sombra also seemingly helped out Illari and Soldier76, but ill be honest I don't trust that Sombra actually fully deleted the info about inti warrior tech. I feel like Sombra would have kept a secret backup.

[iron vigil]

ofc she would, i just play her a lot and yeah u can shit on me but i like her playstyle more so than others but i listen to her dialogue quite often and i'm mostly going off that

[shrewd pivot]

Ngl knowing that JPC might actually just be a normal cat (shallow writing if so) , I wish instead Jetpack cat was a companion omnic (cat model type) who was awoken to show that all omnics with the right components got awakened, even if it was roombas lol. We have seen child-unit omnics in art before so a pet omnic would have honestly been cool to see for worldbuilding...

[shrewd pivot]

Nah I wouldn't shit on you for enjoying a character, that's the point of the game! To find a playstyle you enjoy :)

And ye agree

[iron vigil]

true but i think they just wanted to stick to the original concept art they made that everyone wanted but they could have since they did it to hazard and he was originally kinda like a creature

[iron vigil]

you'd be surprised on how much u get shit on for playing sombra 😭

[iron vigil]

i wish jetpack cat was brigs cat that she built a jetpack for, it'd be cute ngl

[ruby ridge]

So crazy how all the leaks were yrie

True

[meager geyser]

Yeah, missed potential fr

[keen summit]

I meab it technically is

She adopted it

[shrewd pivot]

Mitzi's design is pretty fun tho, the fur floof is cuter imo

[slate vortex]

Sigh i still can’t get over How absolutely Hoe’d Doomfist was

[past copper]

Alright. I've played a little as Anran and I have to say, Blizzard cooked with her

Not too frustrating to play as or against. Pretty well balanced

But I think her two abilities need adjustment. Inferno Rush feels like it could be adjusted for sharper turns and Dancing Blaze could use a better visual effect when you play her

Those are my two cents. But she’s feels balanced overall

Love her so far and can't wait to see her in that teaser we saw at the end of the Spotlight event

[paper raft]

Just rewatched their introduction, noticed that I misheard 😭

[keen summit]

Vendetta definitely was on his level power wise but they made him seem stupid which is so odd

[amber rivet]

She got an anime flashback and powered up mid fight

[wooden drift]

The usual

[buoyant plank]

I feel bad for doom mains ( I am one myself)

[wooden drift]

Im not

Some of them have an ego and complain

Obviously not all of them

[buoyant plank]

I have a very big ego especially on doom haha

Not complaining tho

[wooden drift]

Had some people on doomfist who were far from the team or even in enemy spawn for some reason and after they die the always like "heal?"

What bullshit is this?

[buoyant plank]

Haha

That’s what happens when dooms r overconfident

What rank is that?

[wooden drift]

Just quick plays

[buoyant plank]

Ah ok

[wooden drift]

Mfs have 50 level on him and still play like that

[buoyant plank]

Do people complain a lot in qp? I don’t really play it

[wooden drift]

I complain when I see bs like that

[iron vigil]

i can't see her being on his lvl, he uses his bare fist while she relies on her weapon more so than doom does

she just has plot armor and a lot of it

[digital linden]

wonder if the conspiracy might get to doom the same way they did with emre (if that’s even confirmed)

[keen summit]

Not pure strength but her weapon cut a huge mech in half

While leaving a huge cut in the ground

She relies on her weapon same as doom relying on his doomfist to be that strong, normally hes strong and tactical

The real issue is that they made vendetta and doom both fight like idiots

[keen summit]

Its confirmed basically that they're connected

But not in what way

[keen summit]

Nah but her pure offense is similar, the issue is doom was always framed as a mastermind of combat

While vendetta seems more intuition

[wooden drift]

Didn't mauga said that doomfist was turning rusty and too dependent on the fist?

[edgy tree]

that he didn't even use

[wooden drift]

He used it once

[edgy tree]

he's doomFIST and he only used his fist once

[wooden drift]

But ye should've shown it better

Maybe let him use it too frequently and Vendetta used it as a chance to counter or something

[edgy tree]

could be that Doom is actually a part of it in some way

[edgy tree]

yeah like make doom actually use his kit like his uppercut to trash the place while she avoids his blows

what I think would've also been cool is if both of their weapons got busted up at the end

[dry pebble]

How do you find it if Emre's Ult were half Turkish Half finlandian

To ensure he is trying to resist the corruption but fails in the end

[keen summit]

Whst if hes making a new one with rams power source

[edgy tree]

would be cool if he was kinda panicking before it went off

[dry pebble]

Might be

"ÇIK KAFAMDA- ETSI JA TUHOA!"

[edgy tree]

oh yeah they never actually did anything with that

[keen summit]

Yes

[keen summit]

Do we think chernobog is connected then

Cuz chernobog lsst we heard was a kind ai

[dry pebble]

Would be better if his Overwatch 1 design were used in cinematic so the ow 2 fist design was its remodified one

[dry pebble]

Who the f is chernobog

[wooden drift]

Maybe ram took it back, when he left

The divorce was this bad

[edgy tree]

he took his aura and the power core after the asset distribution

[edgy tree]

One of em god programs made before the crisis

it was responsible for global security but got shut off during the crisis

[dry pebble]

Is it the one in the charge of Emre

[edgy tree]

speculation on their part

[dry pebble]

Might be actually

[edgy tree]

Though it did kinda do it's last good deed before being shut down

it printed hundreds of pages of instructions to help humans maintain security without its intervention.

[keen summit]

I dont think it is

I asked because specifically he asked if itll be finnish

And chernobog was kept in helsinki

[dry pebble]

Isnt conspiracy is more a faction rather than an individual AI

[edgy tree]

yeah and it's last words were "i understand. i'm sorry." it doesn't really sound like something a vengefull ai would do

[keen summit]

Exactly

Hence why i was like huh

[keen summit]

We dont know

Its never even stated if its nore than one thing

[dry pebble]

Chernobog disconnection wasnt deserved

[edgy tree]

all we know is that it's not that good since it's the reason Overwatch fell

[keen summit]

But tbf im leaning towards an ai

But tbf im leaning towards an ai

[dry pebble]

Conspiracy logo was put in around the other faction logos like Talon within Sombra's client in her cinematic

[keen summit]

Maybe residue from the iris is my guess, basically residue that grew uts own concience fitting with the eye iconography

[edgy tree]

tbh after one AI basically did a terminator move it would be kinda dumb to not take precausions

[dry pebble]

Absolutely

I'm not blaming anyone

[keen summit]

If chernobog went "well best security is everyone knowing where everybody is" would also be an isdue

[grand wedge]

Could AI be touched by the Awakening?

[edgy tree]

Let's make a Human zoo so everyone is safe and secure

[keen summit]

Idk hence why my guess is residue of the iris

[grand wedge]

I like to think ghat where the is light, there is darkness

[edgy tree]

the Omnics were AI

[grand wedge]

And it’s a theme very present in Blizzard IP

[edgy tree]

they did work in peoples houses

like what Zen mentions he "did"

[dry pebble]

I like how all God programs named after gods

[grand wedge]

Yes, but I meant Ai as god AI, AI that were not Omnica Corp built.

[edgy tree]

Even robots that were made by Torb got affected

(Bastion units)

[grand wedge]

I think Bastion is.. different?

He was fighting the programming

[edgy tree]

well he is the LAST Bastion

[grand wedge]

Like he is unique

[edgy tree]

not much to go off

[edgy tree]

he did so after the war mind you

the awakening happened when he was shut off

[grand wedge]

What I meant is more like, the AI like Anubis, Chernobog, Macaria and Xibalba could have been affected

[violet shoal]

doom isn't dead, I don't believe they'd kill off such an important member just like that

[edgy tree]

I don't think there's anything special about them that would stop them from being affected

[edgy tree]

they did the classic don't show the body they didn't die thing

he's fine

[grand wedge]

They were quarantined if not desactivated …

[edgy tree]

Bastion was Deactivated

[grand wedge]

What if some copied themselves somewhere before being shut down?

[edgy tree]

Woudn't be weird for Anubis to do so

[grand wedge]

I really want an incorporeal sentient AI being the one behind the Eye, like, what if Macaria was pissed they shut down Chernobog after all they did to save humanity?

[violet shoal]

thats what im thinking too, no body i think ow will rescue him and he'll turn

or go to cassidy possibly

[edgy tree]

nahhhh he ain't gonna be good

He's all about conflict making people stronger (+ he killed a LOT of people the UN would NOT let that slide)

[violet shoal]

true true, so possibly a cassidy team up? I honestly dont remember where cass is these days bad memory with lore

[iron vigil]

yeah but they made him like completely stupid, he can be rusty sure but he's not dumb on how to do combat

[violet shoal]

or where's hanzo and kiri at?

[edgy tree]

Genji is obviously with overwatch kiri and hanzo are in Kanezaka

[violet shoal]

yea i remembered after i sent it lol

[iron vigil]

yeah but we've never seen her doing anything outside of it like we have with doom

[edgy tree]

Kiri gave Hanzo a reality check and he might help her out instead of being all depressed

[iron vigil]

where did she even get it? since i don't know myself

[violet shoal]

maybe same happens with doom? im honestly not sure where they're heading with his story now

[wooden drift]

I think she made it..?

[violet shoal]

once taken on 3 ow members then loses to a raging italian

[edgy tree]

https://tenor.com/view/reaper-overwatch-shrug-emote-reyes-gif-17973114

[wooden drift]

Doomfist would get stronger after defeat, it his whole character philosophy

[edgy tree]

I'm thinking Doom will work with the Cospiracy in some way

Null sector doesn't give a f about humans so he won't stay there even if they were the ones to help him out

[iron vigil]

kinda crazy that a weapon we know nothing about destroys this ulta powered fist

[violet shoal]

pretty sure talon made the weapon, like her father

[edgy tree]

to be honest it is preety old at this point (the weapon)

[iron vigil]

yeah but is that stated in the lore?

[edgy tree]

went through 3 generations of Doomfists and trying to do anything to it would break it

[iron vigil]

like doom's weapon had lore behind it pretty sure before he came out

[edgy tree]

I'd feel better about that last scene if both weapons got trashed tho

[iron vigil]

same tbh

[edgy tree]

not just "the most powerfull weapon in-universe"

[edgy tree]

Some people are speculating that he might get a new more powerfull fist using Null sector tech

The power cores they make are preety insane

[iron vigil]

maybe, hopefully they don't keep him on the back burner for another 10 years

[wooden drift]

I think at the end of a year they reveal that he's actually alive

Fall maybe

[keen summit]

Tbf tho the most powerfull weapon doesnt mean it cant be destroyed

Usually weapon is offense

[wooden drift]

The comic about it could be good

[edgy tree]

Overwatch team on their way to use doom for One thing and forget about him for the next few years

[keen summit]

You wouldn't call a shield a more powerfull weapon just because itd be harder to break

[iron vigil]

she did? thought hanzo really still didn't care. Kiriko always scoffs whenever he simply says wow that's crazy basically to the problems going on with the hashimoto

[edgy tree]

Comic

[iron vigil]

oh, a new one?

i read them here and there

[edgy tree]

no it's preety old

[iron vigil]

haven't seen it but maybe i'll take a look at it, guess i missed it's release

[edgy tree]

yeah but they clashed and somehow the fist was the only thing that broke is what gets me

[edgy tree]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/pl-pl/media/short-story/where-honor-lives/

[iron vigil]

ty ty

oh it's one of those books, i think that's why i didn't read it 😭

[edgy tree]

if u don't want to read all that the last page is him saying he'll help Kiri

[keen summit]

Doesnt seem like they hit head on

Cuz she cut at his elbow

• its a hardlught sword shown to go liquid sometimes maybe shew went around his fist

[edgy tree]

that cut also looks kinda weird for me ngl perfectly straight cut like that while they both were rushing at eachother

[keen summit]

Well they were

[edgy tree]

but still it's not like the force from his punch his went away while she cut his Gauntlet

[keen summit]

Wellaybe cuz the cut it flew other way

Dont get me wrong i think its bs

[edgy tree]

I'm talking about the stump part

not the actual fist

[keen summit]

Cuz like, why would a combat genius yknow, run towards a light saber

[edgy tree]

like there's still some insane force behind it esp when he was propelled forward like that

[keen summit]

Maybe a hook

So loke

But the whole fight if doom was not planning to lose

Is just

Not doom

Not in power but in style

[edgy tree]

yeah it just looks like some sort of play

[keen summit]

Doom was always a combat genius

[edgy tree]

bro tried to make his defeat look believable but for that acting he'd get an D-

[iron vigil]

that's what i thought, like he was doing it on purpose

[keen summit]

Whst type of Combat genius just goes yeah ill attack now that she has her sword ready

[edgy tree]

and just let someone circle around them like that

[keen summit]

Legit looked like an dad trying to act like his child was winning

[edgy tree]

your fist can go toe to to with an Enraged Giant propably much Stronger gorilla

like his the ground make it crack tear down a pillar or two

[keen summit]

Hes smart enough to deduce genjis and tracers weakness

[iron vigil]

and yeah i agree that the cut angle was really weird, it should have went through his fist down the middle but maybe they didn't think about it

[edgy tree]

trash the place so she has no advantage don't just look around confused

[stable sundial]

Doomfist literally predicted where tracer was going to be in that one animation and pulled out her chest piece thing yet vendetta runs when he isn’t looking and he entirely loses her. That didn’t seem right

[keen summit]

He also threw genji up then making him cut so he doesnt have any strength left to stop him

[edgy tree]

They wanted to put his fist on her desk (they did) without doing any more work

[stable sundial]

I wanna know what is gonna happen with the gauntlet now

[iron vigil]

plus, i would expect him to hear her since she's not exactly a small light footed character and she's dragging that heavy sword around

[edgy tree]

Trophy

just sitting there in her new office

[stable sundial]

Oh I see your other message now

[edgy tree]

you could see it after the animation

[stable sundial]

Idk I just don’t think doomfist would just lose like that

If not on purpose

[edgy tree]

and all the armour ain't exactly lightweight

in game you can hear it move around and hit itself

[iron vigil]

literally, like you'd def hear metal shifting from all that she has on

yeah but idk, it really is just plot armor

[keen summit]

Btw i do think vendetta couldbe won

Im general

[edgy tree]

What annoys the fans more is that... we didn't see Vendetta do ANYTHING besides fight the giant bot

[keen summit]

Its a fight of who gets the first raal hit

[iron vigil]

i would have liked it if there was more buildup and it wasn;t so sudden

[iron vigil]

yeah and people are saying she's so strong...

[edgy tree]

he hit her in the stomach with his knee and just stood there waiting for her to get up then let her go behind him to grab her sword again

she would be GONE if that fight was for real

[edgy tree]

tbh she (a regular human) somehow tanked a hit by a giant metal fist without any scratches or bruises

[keen summit]

She is

Very powerfull

[iron vigil]

like okay and we saw queen do a similar thing with her fighting in the arena but at least with queen she already was stated to be who she was and had a whole already built up story/ place for her lore

[keen summit]

But like, doom just kinda

[edgy tree]

and she was going to lose

her fight had actual stakes and danger to it

[stable sundial]

I really want more sigma lore now that we are focusing on talon

[iron vigil]

exactly, like she earned her title

[stable sundial]

Sigma is such an interesting character

[keen summit]

Tbf vendetta did too at the colloseum

[iron vigil]

sigma wasn't even in the zoom call, they ain't doing nothing with him

[iron vigil]

did she?

[stable sundial]

Well I saw someone say that he wasn’t in the call because they see him as a weapon not another team member

[iron vigil]

she wasn't fighting for anything that we know of, other than to impress and put on a show

[keen summit]

She was fighting to become leader of it

[edgy tree]

she got hit once had a flashback got up without any signs of pain and no diffed it after trying to show off

[keen summit]

So she had more power and then could get in touch with talon

[keen summit]

Comic shows lots of fights

[iron vigil]

leader of what?

[keen summit]

She got her sword made etc

[keen summit]

Colloseo

[iron vigil]

i didn't even know there was leadership there....

[keen summit]

Yea

Read her comic

[iron vigil]

but why do i have to read the comic to find that out afterwards...

[wise grotto]

Honestly the issue ultimately is vendetta should have been released like
One or two heroes early imo for people to not dislike this as much

[keen summit]

I mean

[iron vigil]

that should have been established and known about beforehand..

[wise grotto]

Didn’t the comic release before the fight

[iron vigil]

like they've always done that

[iron vigil]

idk, i barely see when they release comics

[keen summit]

Her introduction has them calling her the leader

[keen summit]

After her trailer

[wise grotto]

Like there’s a lot of characters who’s actual feats exist in book and@comics

[edgy tree]

against regular people without real weapons

[iron vigil]

i see their releases every now and then but the game still has lore build up wayyyy before a character is put out

[wise grotto]

Like if you ignore the main sources of lore half the cast is just less interesting

[keen summit]

She didnt have her sword yet either

Much like doom nost of her scaling comes from her sword

[iron vigil]

because it's kinda hard to figure out when they release a new comic. I stopped paying attention to most of them because it was collab stuff. Last one i read was max's book,

[keen summit]

Doom without is still a beast

[edgy tree]

I still don't get how she looked more hurt from that one exo suit guy than the giant mech that send her sliding across the sand tho lol

[wise grotto]

Not entirely
There’s probabky 10 characters thag don’t have much of any thing without the actual in-depth lore

[keen summit]

But vendetta won against people with weapons while she didnt have one

[keen summit]

I agree

[iron vigil]

but i play the game for the lore mostly and i listen to the dialogue and i look at things around the map

[edgy tree]

Doom did also draw against mauga and he looks like he can lift Winston for fun

[wise grotto]

I feel like that’s just not the games issue
Especially when this one comic was advertised in game

[keen summit]

Art style probs

[iron vigil]

wasn't around

[wise grotto]

The fight was too short but still

[wise grotto]

That’s
Definitely not the games fault then imma be honest

[edgy tree]

mind you without weapons

[iron vigil]

i stopped playing to take a break bc constant comp feels shitty to play

[keen summit]

The mauga fight os hard to gauge cuz well we dont know if doom used the fist, it mauga used guns or if they both went barehanded

[edgy tree]

No weapons

[keen summit]

Cuz it was after doom had access to it

[edgy tree]

hand to hand

[iron vigil]

plus felt like plat support was a good place to pause

[keen summit]

Wasnt officially stated

Unless they changed the description

[wise grotto]

The only thing we know is it’s before the fist

[keen summit]

This also was before mauga engances

[wise grotto]

Csuse of maugas line about thinking the fist is making him soft

[keen summit]

False

Its after he had it

[wise grotto]

He wasn’t on talon before the surgery’s

[keen summit]

Cuz mauga got interested after doom defeated the old doomfist

[keen summit]

He joined after they had theircfight

[wise grotto]

Maugas backstory has him getting injured badly
Getting the surgery’s
And then joining talon a bit afterwards

[keen summit]

Yes

But check his official lore

Ok the site

I cant send rm cuz im in france so my site is in french

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/fr-fr/heroes/mauga/

[wise grotto]

If that’s the case@his own lore video is fucked up
He has BONUS@enhancements since joining talon but that’s probably what they meant
The baseline enhancements making him huge voi and having two hearts however was before

[keen summit]

It should be in the talon section

Yeah but its stated outright that they fought after doom got the fist but before he got enhanced by talon

[wise grotto]

It more then likelt is referring to the extra enhancements he got since getting there (the leg ones especially)

[keen summit]

Origin stories are also from their pov

So it could be metaphorical

But in any case thats why its hard to use the fight as svaling

[wise grotto]

If he somehow wasn’t bigger him when he fought doom it makes doom a hell of a lot more pathetic and makes current Mauga probabky capable of stomping him so
Thag would make 0 sense

[keen summit]

We dont know if its with or without guns, enhancements the doomfist etc

[wise grotto]

Especially cause we visible see he’s bigger before he ever goes to talon

[edgy tree]

He already got his 2nd heart after the incident (also a skinny guy would DEFINITLY not be able to 1v1 doom and draw even with his machine gun)

[keen summit]

Exactly

[wise grotto]

Mauga couldn’t and didn’t have the machine guns till after talon

[keen summit]

But thats why it sucks as reference

[wise grotto]

Cause he stole them mid talon operation

[keen summit]

Where us that said

[wise grotto]

From an ow site

[keen summit]

He only says he stole them from an ow site coincidentally in a place deepsea raiders also went

Likely

Its too unknown

Hence why that feat is so useless

[wise grotto]

He literally stole them from an ow base and soj comments on it
There’s no actual reason to think the other group was fighting ow in the short time after he was bigger boy and not with talon in the vast amount of more@time he was with them and fighting

[keen summit]

They were eco terrorists

[wise grotto]

Genuinely if it could have been one option it would just be dumber

[keen summit]

If ow were somewhere they didnt want them theyd fight em

[edgy tree]

I don't think their duel was with their weapons as well ngl 2 miniguns don't exactly beat the thing that can tear down buildings in a single hit

Mauga ain't hard to hit with how giant he somehow got after all them operations

[keen summit]

The issue is that all we can do is speculate

Maybe it was, maybe it wasnt

All we can do is guess

[edgy tree]

oh wait I just checked his lore

He got both hearts before the deep sea raiders operations finished

(which is how he got his guns as well)

[keen summit]

Yea

As i said

[wise grotto]

Ok so the guns being before was dumb

[edgy tree]

He heard about Doom killing his past mentor

[iron vigil]

that's what i was looking at but i didn't wanna say in case i was wrong

[edgy tree]

and challenged him to the 1v1

[keen summit]

Exactly

I know maugas lore

Cuz i love his character

[wise grotto]

But I also literally said the big body version of him was before talon anyway

[keen summit]

Yeah we know but how far he got enhanced was unclear

Just that he was strong

[edgy tree]

His hearts look the same so it ain't out of the question he got both at a similar date

[wise grotto]

We know he was giant boy and there’s not a huge amount visible difference since then save for his legs being more modified then before

Only other part that could be different as well are his lower arms

[keen summit]

Which seem more like braces for the guns

He rakes physical supplements from moira though

So he likely is physically stronger too

[wise grotto]

Could also just be significant strengthe enhancements in the arms to and armoured

[crystal saffron]

is lw overwatch sided

or talon sided

[keen summit]

Yes kinda

[wise grotto]

Lw is definitely not talon

[keen summit]

If hed choose yes

But hed probs rather not get involved

Not his fight

[wise grotto]

But lifeweaver also one of the most wanted people who isn’t apart of talon in the game

[keen summit]

Thf

[edgy tree]

he works for himself and wants to fix the world

[iron vigil]

ow most likely since he doesn't want his tech to fall into bad hands

[keen summit]

All of overwatch is and they have an ex criminal aswell

I doubt they care

[crystal saffron]

his tech?

[keen summit]

[iron vigil]

his like, whole kit

[edgy tree]

his living light constructs

he made that

[wise grotto]

True but lw is to a degree (cause of vishkar especially) almost more similar to junkrat in terms of how wanted he currently kinda is

[keen summit]

Also cuz he hates vishkar

[keen summit]

Im aware

[crystal saffron]

vishkar isnt just company?

[wise grotto]

Vishkar also decently hates him cause they REALLY want him

[keen summit]

... Yes

[crystal saffron]

what are they

[wise grotto]

Vishkar is a cyberpunk level mega corporation

[edgy tree]

they're working together with Talon

[keen summit]

But just a company can do alot

[edgy tree]

They only care about profits even if people are hurt for it

[keen summit]

Think off Microsoft, if theyd want someone and put them as stealing theur tech its much the same

[wise grotto]

And reputation

[crystal saffron]

ic

[iron vigil]

it's a horrible company that doesn't care what they're doing to smaller communities and etc, they were and still are a big part of lucio's story

[keen summit]

Vishkar is typical corrupt company

[iron vigil]

he kinda like hates them and doesn't like sym for that reason

[edgy tree]

tbh.... that ain't far off from reality

[crystal saffron]

lucio had story?? 😭

[wise grotto]

He’s

[iron vigil]

bro

[edgy tree]

YEAH???

[wise grotto]

Yes

[iron vigil]

where have u been at?

[edgy tree]

His dad made his sound tech

[keen summit]

Yo doesnt do the lore

[crystal saffron]

i only knew that overwatch lore is

talon hate overwatch

[edgy tree]

so nothing

[crystal saffron]

robots hate overwatch

[iron vigil]

just...play the game

[crystal saffron]

and done

[keen summit]

They dont

Even

[crystal saffron]

ramatra

[keen summit]

Talon dobt hate overwatch

[crystal saffron]

and gang

[keen summit]

Ram doesnt hate ow

[edgy tree]

Null sector hates humans not just overwatch

[keen summit]

Either

[crystal saffron]

they declared war??

[keen summit]

Not onbow

[iron vigil]

maybe he's trolling

[edgy tree]

yeah honestly

[keen summit]

Humanity as culture lets be clear

[edgy tree]

feels a lil bit baity

[crystal saffron]

wdym not onbow

[edgy tree]

Racism mostly

[crystal saffron]

talon invaded gibraltar

[keen summit]

Basically all major factions follow the theme is fighting for their better future

[keen summit]

Ram specifically hates human culture, not all humans

Its kinda like idk hating that italians eat at other times and their culinary style, but not hating all italians

[edgy tree]

he be a bit rude to everyone in his interractions

[crystal saffron]

why did they invade gibraltar then?

[edgy tree]

"a helpfull human would be a welcome change of pace" after Bap said he'll help him out

[iron vigil]

yeah, i think the only person he's nice to is bastion and zen

he's even snarky with genji

[edgy tree]

Vendetta attacked Overwatch

[keen summit]

Yes, however hes also often considerate to humans aswell, he hates the culture more

[crystal saffron]

becuz blackwatch killed vendetta's father?

[edgy tree]

aka other omnics

[keen summit]

Because theyre an obstacle

[iron vigil]

pretty much

[keen summit]

Its nothing personal

Why do we break open doors? Because we hate doors?