lore-discussion

[past copper]

Guess tensions aren't high with former Overwatch agents who left the organization willingly or after being burned by it

[peak escarp]

she's a known bounty hunter

not like she's going to snitch on them

[merry mason]

Honestly bounty hunters are exactly who’d I expect to snitch

It doesn’t look more advanced just different. If anything it seems incomplete, kind of glitchy

[azure flint]

watching the vid rn

why does moira have normal hands

also we got a emre voice LES GOOOO

[spare fox]

There's just something abt this fandom's rigidity when it comes to things in OW lore that is just weird like

Fiction isn't going to be realistic

It takes place in a "villains monologuing to the hero" type of universe

Just go with it fr

[peak escarp]

artist error

[spare fox]

And we haven't seen Moira in the lore since OW1... maybe what's going on with her hand hasn't happened yet... or flares up later and she can manage it w makeup or treatment

Oh wait, she's got gloves on

Wdym why does she have normal hands?

[digital linden]

might be bc we don’t see her long nails

clearly she just removes them when she’s at work with gloves

[bold fern]

anyone knows the leaks about vendetta vs doom

heard she was gonna defeat doom and be the leader of talon

[peak escarp]

it was a fake leak

[spare fox]

The weird part abt that leak was Sigma at the Talon council table like

No

He's not upper level Talon, he's a hostage-prisoner-weapon

[severe drum]

random question, do you guys think sombra joined talon partially bcs of emre?? or did he join after her..

[past copper]

It looks more advanced. But we don't even know if that's what it was

All I saw was a gun manifested from some construct and his arm become a cannon

Beyond that, no telling what to expect from Emre as a hero

But I do wonder if he could be a new tank

He actually could be a tank. As heavily armored as he looks and as destructive, Emre could be the next tank

Not to mention another thing that just seems to scream tank at this point. Emre's right arm weapon

They've done that with Orisa, Doomfist, and Hazard. Now Emre. Blizzard certainly has a type for tanks

[azure flint]

https://tenor.com/view/bucky-barnes-brazo-de-metal-metarl-arm-bucky-barnes-arm-bucky-gif-26787751

this is how the conspiracy has emre rn

whoever or wtv it is

[glad fox]

How do omnics get power?

I haven't seen mention of them requiring charging as such

Or having to consume any fuel

Is it some nuclear technology

[glad fox]

Are sombra and emre related? I only know him from that comic and he was friend of freja

[wise grotto]

He’s one of the old ow members (the last of the original crew now)
But he’s also linked to the conspiracy group with the eye sombra and soldier have been hunting

[torn shale]

vendetta is so hot

[severe drum]

i dont think its been mentioned (yet)

i tried looking thru the wiki and couldn't find anything

[acoustic flax]

Can Omnics be born and gain citizenship or voting rights

[severe drum]

unfortunately they stopped making omnics and the governments ARE giving them rights although they are still seen as unequal

some rights are varied in different countries tho

[acoustic flax]

Sentience was a one-time thing right, like no others made today could be the same
I wonder how it works if they can't "die", retire, etc

[severe drum]

yup

it was basically a miracle

dr liao tried doing it again by creating echo

omnics CAN die

they dont ever come back

[acoustic flax]

I mean of natural causes
Since they don't age, right?

[severe drum]

i guess

still kinda funny to me theres a balding middle aged omnic

[acoustic flax]

We fellas can't catch a break
Alopecia.exe now installing

[cunning snow]

is snowball an omnic

[keen summit]

No

Guys

ANRAN ISNT CONFIRMED

That ult line might be emres

[severe drum]

i saw that theory

PLEASE I REALLY HOPE SHE DOESNT JOIN

sorry anran lovers

[keen summit]

It fits emres form better

I dont think it fits anran

Sounds too violent

[severe drum]

i think it perfectly fits for an older sister

[keen summit]

Fair

This screamd scorch the sky more

[calm star]

potential turkish hero?!???!!?!

[keen summit]

Yes

He's basically confirmed next hero

Scorch the sly was a leaked ult line, it fits him perfectly

Also: that symbol on jis chest!!

[grand wedge]

it won't, because the VL are a woman voice

[calm star]

YESSSSS GRRRRRR

[keen summit]

Is that so

[grand wedge]

I've got the voicelines in french, 'scorch the sky" have both VL in chinese and french

[keen summit]

Cuz its echo saying it no

[grand wedge]

Yes, 100%

it's no echo voice actress

i'll dm them to you if you want

[keen summit]

Sure

Thats really odd then

[fallow mantle]

Someone suggested dps, he'd be the first male dps added since ow launch, as doomfist is now a tank

Tbh I'm fine with whatever role he gets. I thought he'd be support but that was before we found out he's now, uh, whatever he is

[keen summit]

I have a bit of a theory, or well theories bout him

So it seems theyre specifically either attacking or hijacking old satellite sites where ow did stuff, so i think its not about the intel honestly, but about the uplinks.

Why emre? Well id wager that the conspiracy would pick him exactly because he would know where these things were as he found it important to be at meetings

How emre? My guess? They offered to help him help people by feeding him intel, giving him this suit but secretly working to y'know, take control

Perhaps he brings them there and thinks he's just there to get access to intel and then they "protect" him against invaders

[sand veldt]

Were mercy and sigma friends?

Just wondering because of the lunch after seminar voice line

[keen summit]

I mean

Both smart people

Its not that weird for scientists to have lunch together just to talk stuff really, as both were renowned researchers

[sand veldt]

Is tracer connected to the same thing that gives sigma his powers?

[keen summit]

why would she be

hell we dont know what gives sigma his powers, or if he even has powers and that it isnt just the tech he has on him

[bitter scroll]

Meow

[severe drum]

meow

[severe drum]

nope, tracer became the way she is because of a teleporting jet that she was testing that went wrong and messed with her timeline and was basically jumping one timeline to another and couldnt stay in one place before winston gave her the chronal accelerator which gave her control over her own time

[sand veldt]

I thought it was confirmed it WASNT tech

[severe drum]

nope it was bcs of a failed orbital experiment that split his personality and gave him the ability to control gravity

[edgy tree]

the tech is just used to controll it like his hyperspheres

like he's the one making the black holes the sphere is just holding it stable

[sage wigeon]

i wish they would revisit mirrorwatch the lore potential is insane

[wise grotto]

He does have powers to control gravity to a decent degree
Techs just used to keep it stable so he’s not just locked up forever still

[keen summit]

Yeah its kinda weird

[severe drum]

YES

YOU DONT KNOW HOW BDALY I WANT MIRRORWATCH REAPER

I WILL GLADLY SACRIFCE MY YEARS JS FOR A MIRROR WATCH REAPER

[lusty geode]

Whats that

[severe drum]

mirrorwatch was a bp theme a few seasons back

basically the roles were switched

doomfist became a good guy and tracer a bad guy

[sage wigeon]

dude i love mirrorwatch tracer so much i wanna see winston 🥹

i NEED the angst for tracer its so good

[severe drum]

i think winston would be dead on the moon but thats js a hunch

UHM

[sage wigeon]

some people speculated hed be a junker

my goat wont die… i hope… 💔

[severe drum]

but where would wrecking ball go

ow?

instead of australia?

wait thats actually good

[sage wigeon]

wait…. what if hammond initiated the recall instead…

[severe drum]

awesome

[sage wigeon]

ow hammond would be funny but im so down

[severe drum]

would he still be a fat chud or a chad

[sage wigeon]

hammond is always a chud

i wonder how tracer killed emily though 💔

[fossil wren]

Its anran voiceline

It's more noticeable in the leaked Russian version

[keen summit]

yeah no i checked its in chinese

[azure flint]

blizzard please give us non human heroes

https://tenor.com/view/lord-if-you-can-hear-us-save-us-save-us-lord-save-us-god-floptok-gif-8118611758178273971

[twilit patrol]

What's wrong with human heroes?

[wise grotto]

I think it’s just
The last one that was omnic or otherwise was ramm before that was ball

We’ve had 2 since launch

[hushed jetty]

echo

and orisa (prior to ball)

[main sapphire]

Human heroes sell skins

[peak escarp]

I want more omnics too

especially a normal looking female-identifying omnic

give us Bars

[valid jolt]

guys i have very serious question, and i need someone who knows the overwatch world deep

the led's on the omnic's forehead, i think it matters a lot but i dont know why

some have none like bastion, orisa

some have 9 like zenyatta, ramattra, mondatta

maximillen has 7, aurora had 6

most of the omnic crowd in the alive cinematic have 3

does it mean before the awakening these omnics served different purposes based on the tech inside them?

the conspiracy logo, it has 6 dots / led's on emere's suit seen in the recent comic

[elfin bane]

ohh interesting

conspiracy could have to do aurora

but idk how good proof that is

[valid jolt]

but the led's they have been consistent, i am looking through the comics and stuff, the design of how many led's should be on a omnic's forehead is intentional, i played a lot of blue prince recently, it has taken over my thoughts i see clues and connections of stuff irl now...

[peak escarp]

I don't think it's significant

Just cosmetic

[valid jolt]

now its not significant, all omnics are awakened, so they are all equal.

[peak escarp]

Efi's face paint also has 6 dots around her eyes, people theorized that she has something to do with the conspiracy

but it's unlikely

[valid jolt]

hmmmmmmm

[peak escarp]

just a coincidence

[valid jolt]

but it happens so many times aaaaa

[glad fox]

Are zenyatta and mondatta same model of omnics?

[peak escarp]

they appear to be

but Ramattra is different

[glad fox]

Most non playable omnics look like zenyatta

[valid jolt]

i asked gemini to search deep, and it said this

Observed Patterns

`Zenyatta and Tekhartha Mondatta:` Both prominent Shambali figures, Zenyatta has nine dots and Mondatta had nine. In Buddhist tradition, nine is considered a supreme spiritual number, and real-world monks often have dots (representing vows or rank) burned onto their heads with incense.
`Maximilien:` The intelligent, high-ranking Talon banker has seven dots. Seven is a "lucky number," which some find ironic given his criminal activities.
Common Omnics: Most background, unnamed omnics in cinematics and maps have around three dots.
`B.O.B. (Ashe's omnic assistant):` He has two lights. He is capable of complex reasoning and understands commands, but operates more as an advanced servant.
`Bastion:` Bastion units only have one large light, which functions as their eye. They are less humanoid and, in their standard programming, are not considered sentient in the same way the "Awakened" omnics are, though the player character Bastion develops a unique personality. 

Interpretation
The prevailing fan theory is that the dots represent the omnics' "mind's eyes" or degree of insight, with more dots indicating higher intelligence, individuality, or a higher place in their social/spiritual hierarchy. The original "Awakening" granted sentience and free will to existing omnics, and the number of dots may reflect how advanced or "awakened" a specific unit is.

[peak escarp]

Zenyatta (and the rest) seem to be the default omnic model

[valid jolt]

ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, what is overwatch doing to me AAAAAAAAA

[peak escarp]

except Zenyatta wasn't made to be a high-ranking spiritual monk, he was a nobody before Ramattra found him

Mondatta was probably a nobody before/during the crisis too

[valid jolt]

i need to know zenyatta's past

why zen so mysterious about his past my brain aaaa

[peak escarp]

the reasons you gave were probably the artist's reason for giving those numbers, but not an in-universe reason for them to have them

[glad fox]

Orisa is also an omnic right

[peak escarp]

debatable

she was made from an OR15, which is a model of robot drone made post-crisis to protect Numbani

non-sentient

[valid jolt]

orisa is more like bastion, ai with a advanced self developing personality stuff

[peak escarp]

Efi gave her a personality core, but she is not sentient

neither is Echo

[valid jolt]

yea, i think bob is similar like that too

[peak escarp]

they're both very highly advanced AI

Bob was Awakened though

we don't know if Bob can't talk or just chooses not to

Ashe seems to understand him well enough without talking

and we've seen another omnic that's the same model as Bob who could talk

[valid jolt]

but bob can function with just his head

it

idk

[peak escarp]

we don't know how omnics work

maybe all of them can work with just their head

[glad fox]

I assume all omnics have their 'brain' in the head

[valid jolt]

i think i saw someone like them in hazard comic too

[peak escarp]

not a Bob, but there was another Ravager

it's funny - the Ravagers are supposed to be nearly extinct yet we know of two of them

https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Revel

[valid jolt]

THE EYE am sorry

sombra, she considered all her tech was obsolete when the "conspiracy" hacked everything she had, she upgraded because of that incident. i wanna know more aaaaaaaaa

like it scared sombra into throwing all the tech she had and made a custom built system in her own body that only she knows how it works

[valid jolt]

https://blizzardwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/OW_Sombra_conspiracy_web.jpg

what is the square within a square logo.

damn embed fail

i went into the castillo map sombra room from the comic, that square within a square logo is not drawn, the spot is there but its not filled with that logo

[peak escarp]

that's the Numbani flag

[valid jolt]

ohwww

what are the big spots on the left side of volskaya, its only in game sombra room, its not in the comic or the short

theres 2 big spots

[peak escarp]

do you have a picture?

I don't remember it

[valid jolt]

i cant send picture 🙁

https://i.imgur.com/7mv9YoN.png?1 here i found a image of the room

[peak escarp]

I think they're just blank spaces

[valid jolt]

but why there >,> why not on the top or the right side

[peak escarp]

idk

[azure flint]

is the conspiracy gonna be a new faction

or smth

what if they're the reason ram retreated

[peak escarp]

if Emre is tied to the Conspiracy, it may be the antagonist of the next arc

Ramattra retreated because he got what he wanted

[valid jolt]

i think conspiracy controls all the factions

like the world government in one piece controlls all the history status and power

[glad fox]

Can sombra actually hack people's abilities or that's just gameplay mechanic?

[valid jolt]

null sector is not on sombra's web maybe they forgot to update it
is null sector the only faction not connected to conspiracy

[valid jolt]

i think almost everyone in overwatch world has some kind of nano tech in their body, used maybe like a medicine or to become cyborg.

[peak escarp]

just gameplay

[valid jolt]

hmm, isnt mercy, bap, ana healing nano tech?

[peak escarp]

nanobiotics

not nanobots

it doesn't inject anyone with tech

Juno's healing tech is probably based on Mercy's tech too

and Moira's

Illari, Kiriko, Lifeweaver, Wuyang and Zenyatta all use a different healing method

Brigitte just does first aid and mechanical repairs

and Lucio canonically doesn't heal at all

[valid jolt]

i assumed nanobots/machines are used to target a area for healing with nanobiology

[peak escarp]

nope

the only mention of nanobots at all is with Ramattra's abilities

which uses nanites

[valid jolt]

the big hero 6 nanites but even smaller

XD

[peak escarp]

it's a common misconception in the community that Reaper's abilities use nanobots

but he's just disintegrating into a cloud of cells

[valid jolt]

in my mind, people who can teleport / phase in out of existence in space and time in overwatch world. they are quantum human beings.

[peak escarp]

nanobiotics is like microbiotics but smaller

[valid jolt]

am not gonna think about the characters abilities some feel like magic but has some hypothetical scientific reason to back it up as "its just science you dont understand".

[peak escarp]

they don't explain much

and the stuff they do explain doesn't work like that in the real world

it is science fiction, after all

[valid jolt]

winton

[peak escarp]

slowing someone's heart rate would make them lethargic and prone to fainting, it would not make them turn blue and be a better sniper

[valid jolt]

widowmaker would probably be a very cool character if she existed in x-men universe. not significant but very cool.

[glad fox]

Marvel already has kinda similar characters with similar name

[valid jolt]

i guess, i feel like widowmaker is made in a way as like a superhuman who has been brainwashed, then psychologically/mentally trained for "talon good-world bad" with reduced emotions, etc and then genetically modified to enhance her sniper skills specifically

widowmaker would be like the winter soldier from marvel universe i think, without the super strength or the arm, but with super control and a special rifle

maybe in our year 2056 mercy finds a way to fix widowmaker and we can see if her genetic modifications apply somewhere other than "i don't miss"

[safe kayak]

Is there Hanzo lore that isn’t mainstream

I want to cosplay him in Comic-Con so

I wanna know everything about him

[grand wedge]

his last lore drop : since you have to read it, some people don't know it even exists. https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/where-honor-lives/

[safe kayak]

Thanks 😁

[edgy tree]

Yeah preety much There's no other reason for them to suddently bring them up again after so many years

[glad fox]

Since now all omnics are sentient, can they not do the awakening themselves?

What was special about aurora?

Like if new omnics are made and one of the sentient omnic does the same procedure

[wise grotto]

New real omnics can’t be made in universe I believe

[edgy tree]

honestly that's a good question maybe their sentience is just a fragment of auroras?

[fossil wren]

It's not something that's possible, or at least there's no possible way to do it yet

[glad fox]

Maybe it just hasn't been tried yet

[fossil wren]

One of the main triggers for Ramattra's actions was precisely this issue, The sentient omnics are a species with limited numbers and that dies quickly, A second awakening isnt something that seems possible, Aurora was unique among the omnics, not even her creator the Dr. Mina Liao is sure how she gained sapience, so is highly unlikely that someone like Aurora can be replicated (The closest thing to that would be Echo)

[elfin bane]

why server symbol change

is that a lore symbol

looks like weird talon logo

[keen summit]

just happened

[grand wedge]

Also : new Talon logo?

or.. Talon under the reign of Vendetta?

[fossil wren]

Holy

[digital linden]

omg whats happening

[twilit patrol]

What the fuck

Something big is coming

[digital linden]

talon logo looks like a wolf now

[fossil wren]

Talon takeover

Now we are all evil

[digital linden]

i prayed for times like this

[twilit patrol]

Juno is evil...

[wicked plume]

Juno has been evil

she terrorizes my ranked games

[fossil wren]

Instead of hop in overwatch now it is hop in Talon

[azure flint]

imagine this is mirrorwatch part 2

https://tenor.com/view/sticker-yung-joc-crying-meme-man-crying-meme-thebeyonderrrr-gif-828328460466032722

[wicked plume]

If this is mirrorwatch again

we might have to storm the headquarters man

[fossil wren]

https://x.com/i/status/2014779401490030674

[wicked plume]

This better not be a junkenstein type thing bro

i’ll lose my mind

[fossil wren]

Vendetta takeover

Please don't tell me the leak will become real

[keen summit]

talon takeover

[azure flint]

using vendettas takeover as the reason to redesign the talon logo is genius

[fossil wren]

Rip doomfist

[elfin bane]

omg

wait

[median orchid]

Ok this is big

Is this teasing some sort of Archives mission type deal? Or am I still on hopium. This can't be for just lols from blizzard

[fossil wren]

Who knows

Probably something big for the lore

[median orchid]

Better be

Like I guess theres a chance for Mirrowatch vol 2

[azure flint]

highly doubt its archives

[median orchid]

Or some sort of PVE type deal like Junkerstein?

[azure flint]

blizzard isnt cool enough to do events like that anymore

[keen summit]

i mean its practically confirmed

[signal finch]

what leak?

[gloomy rose]

apparently vendetta will yeet doom out a window and we’re going to get a cinematic for it? i think?

it probably won’t be in the old style of cinematics (yknow, the ones that actually looked good) so…meh

[azure flint]

the next vid we get is the one where vendetta kills doom

or at least puts him out of commission

is my prediction

then we get a "the story continues in season 21: reign of talon"

[keen summit]

i think it might be tnight icl

tonight or tuesday

[median orchid]

Yeah why else would they just drop this teaser and not do anything with it. Something big is coming soon

[fossil wren]

Talonignore

[keen summit]

well im waiting for the full hour

[median orchid]

Hell yeah

[lapis torrent]

what’s with the server pfp

[spare fox]

Check official social media

[lapis torrent]

on twitter?

[spare fox]

Play OW taken over by Talon

Yeah or insta

They're teasing something big w Vendetta and Talon soon

Maybe the leaks weren't that fake, but don't count on them being 100% accurate yet either

Leaks tend to have bad info sprinkled in, in our experience

[fossil wren]

It would have been better if it had been a Null sector takeover

[lapis torrent]

i did not think vendetta was talon

[spare fox]

They did that... RIP PVE

[spare fox]

Not yet but look at the new Talon logo

[fossil wren]

Rip Ram forever will be missed

Doomfist will join him soon

[spare fox]

Yep I'm totally 50/50 on DF getting killed per the leaks. On the one hand, blizz did say that if a hero died in lore, they'd still be playable in game so no worries on that, but on the other hand, it would be smart to not kill Doomfist and just have him go away to recupe, get stronger, keep him in their story pocket for later

[fossil wren]

Honestly, killing Doomfist would seem like a waste in narrative terms, I am more in favor of the second option

[slow wasp]

Kill doomfist and let moira bring him back to life. Peak moira lore

[untold sparrow]

So you guys think vendetta made her own faction of talon?

[hushed jetty]

if doomfist "dies" its surely gonna be a fakeout

[untold sparrow]

Rip doom: from dps to tank to gone

[median orchid]

"Killing" doomfist gives them a excuse to rework / redesign him

Imagine a fully cyborg Doomfist

[untold sparrow]

Hey so...does the new talon logo look like a wolf to anyone?

[peak escarp]

yes

[median orchid]

It is a wolf

[fossil wren]

Vendetta

[peak escarp]

because Vendetta is taking over

[median orchid]

Vendetta motif

[untold sparrow]

It's so COOL

I love it so much

[median orchid]

Has anyone checked winstons computer on Watchpoint giblartar if it has been updated?

[untold sparrow]

No it's still the same

[median orchid]

Alr

[untold sparrow]

Rip ram and nullsector

[median orchid]

Atleast for now ...

[untold sparrow]

Lol fair. I want more ram love

[median orchid]

Hey atleast he got that comic, it couldve "ended" far worse

[untold sparrow]

True

[hushed jetty]

he shall surely come back because we CANNOT leave the null sector story there bro

yeah he's storing omnics' fucking consciousnesses for later and then we just Move On

[median orchid]

They left it open for continuation. Atleast thats what i gathered from the new comics and interactions

[gloomy rose]

seems likely

[keen summit]

I think its more thst she took over

[untold sparrow]

Why is that?

[azure flint]

cuz doom sucks at running talon

it also has to do with her father getting killed

[keen summit]

She hates that talon took everything she "deserved"

So she wanted to take the entirety of talon as revenge

[edgy tree]

I'm kinda weird how it just happened all of a sudden lol

[keen summit]

I like it

Makes it feel special

[civic fox]

Well I mean they did a special talon thing for china on new years

So it was bound to
Happen at some point

[keen summit]

I like this tho

Suddenly boom

[edgy tree]

it didn't look like that tho

[civic fox]

It was a nice surprise

[edgy tree]

I thought something happened to my game lol

[civic fox]

That is what talon is like after all

[keen summit]

I sae the men change

[civic fox]

They don’t announce this shit before they do it

[edgy tree]

I like how even here it's changed

like not just in game but everywhere at the same time

oh they're posting a bunch of stuff on their twitter account

There's pictures of all playable Talon members BESIDES Doomfist

they kinda remind me of the tf2 profile pictures you can get lol

[sand veldt]

About the vendetta killing doom stuff

If doom is dead, ram is missing, what’s happening to reaper and sigma?

[keen summit]

Whats the connection

[fossil wren]

I wonder the same thing

[sand veldt]

Don’t they work for doom?

[keen summit]

Yeah everyone in talon does

Theyll just be under new management

[sand veldt]

What, is vendetta taking over talon then?

[edgy tree]

Reaper doesn't really follow Doom so unlikely for him to leave and Sigma will still be able to do his research

[sand veldt]

Hey, good

As long as the old man doesn’t get arrested

Poor guy

[edgy tree]

it'll just be a change in leadership kinda situation

[edgy tree]

It would be weird for them to kill off Doom like that tbh

[sand veldt]

So reaper

[edgy tree]

we haven't seen him really... do much

[sand veldt]

He used to be a good guy right?

[edgy tree]

part of overwatch and was also part of the same project Soldier 76 was in he was also the old leader before they put Soldier in command

[sand veldt]

So, what’s his deal?

[verbal mica]

lore

[sand veldt]

His powers, why he’s evil?

He’s like a fucking dementor

[verbal mica]

👍

[edgy tree]

Moira and ig Vengeance?

[verbal mica]

la la la lore

[edgy tree]

his whole turning into a dust thing is causing him pain all the time so it ain't suprizing he's not in a cheery mood

[edgy tree]

Vengeance mostly because Overwatch leadership betrayed him he was also a biiiit jealous of Jack

he remarked once that "I’m not the one with the statue"

[untold sparrow]

It makes ow fun again

If only the loading logo was changed too

[fallow mantle]

Really wonder if doomfist is going to defect to overwatch

[fossil wren]

It's a matter of multiple factors that led to Reaper becoming what he is today

[fallow mantle]

Those new pictures on twitter are cool af

[fossil wren]

Although I think the beginning of his downfall is pretty obvious: Hiring Moira at Blackwatch

[untold sparrow]

Nahhh
He's too prideful

Unless
..it was for a plan he had :>

[balmy wharf]

why would vendetta take over talon instead of just destroying it?

sorry I think im a little lost

[edgy tree]

who knew Genetic experiments could result in something bad for you dx

[edgy tree]

Because her dad was the Boss of Talon... untill Reaper killed him whatever wealth she had afterwards was taken from her so she went on a whole training ark just to get it all back

[balmy wharf]

okay okay thank you I think I missed that part

[edgy tree]

She doesn't really look much like him ain't gonna lie

[azure flint]

did blizzard crash ow on purpose for the whole talon thingy

w devs if they did

[keen summit]

i think so

[azure flint]

ppl who were abt to win their rankup game

https://tenor.com/view/cillianmurphygun-cillianmurphy-jazmincoded-gif-3811002643797340103

[keen summit]

they probs give everyone a win

[untold sparrow]

Lol if they did that's scary

[grizzled epoch]

It would be, admittedly, very funny, but thats not the case

[livid girder]

guys i can barely breathe

lore

still waiting in queue, wonder what’s gonna happen

[azure flint]

coincidences at its finest

[brave lintel]

So why has Talon taken over the game? Whats your theories?

[keen summit]

WAIT A MINUTE

emre was specifically targetting satellites remember?

[brave lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/what-nani-marmot-squirrel-turn-around-gif-2041453844604053512

[keen summit]

EVEN THE SITE CHANGED

[keen summit]

one sec

hm

[twilit patrol]

This might be the strongest teasing we ever had

[keen summit]

global security and now its a security breach

[keen summit]

i am SO HAPPY

as some may know ive been mad about how teasing got worse in ow2

and this, is everything i wanted

[twilit patrol]

Lore is so fucking back

[keen summit]

my reaction was legit like, we got bnack to title screen and i was like, that logo wasnt always there

then we que and suddenly boom talon

[brave lintel]

This has been the best its been since the Sombra ARG

They crashed the servers on purpose to do all the changes and make it a surprise lol.

[keen summit]

thats false

the changes were before already

[brave lintel]

No...more changes

[keen summit]

peak would be if it comeso nline with emre trial

icl

thatd be such a cool surprise

[brave lintel]

Unlikely but taht would be awesome

[keen summit]

even the launcher is red

[brave lintel]

I dont have that

[gloomy rose]

doomfuck is so cooked

rest in piss dumbass

tired of that fucker diving me on zen

[brave lintel]

Brother I feel your pain. I also play Zen, and I fear for my life when I hear a charge behind me

[keen summit]

so what if emre or well the conspiracy helped vendetta take over

and now are spreading the word

[quartz rampart]

chopped skin

[quartz rampart]

vendetta agreed to help freja and emre take revenge

in exchange for helping her takeover talon

[keen summit]

take revenge for what

[brave lintel]

For Talon offing her father?

[real hatch]

do you need to update your game?? cause I don't see that </33

[gloomy rose]

no, what do freja and emre want revenge for is what they’re asking

[keen summit]

thank you

[keen summit]

also talon didnt do that

shes mad at doom and talon for taking everything that would be hers

[brave lintel]

Even though it was tehcnically Blackwatch, Vendetta blames Talon anyways.

[keen summit]

no

she blames talon for instantly taking away everything

[brave lintel]

Oh her family assets yea

[keen summit]

her father died, then doom and the rest of talon took all his assets.

leaving her with nothing

shes basically pride and greed

personified

[gloomy rose]

i absolutely disagree with that take

she wants payback for her father

i don’t think it’s just material assets

[gloomy rose]

i’m not saying she’s not in it for the assets and whatnot

i just don’t think that’s all it is

[keen summit]

i do think she does want to make right

but i think her main motivation is pride and greed

[azure flint]

bro why do those new talon pics look like shirt designs

https://tenor.com/view/i-could've-sworn-there-was-a-gif-of-this-whatever-squid-game-squid-game-edit-squid-game-edit-meme-i'm-so-scared-gif-12360771953743496060

[brave lintel]

Wait. Her father was one of the leaders of Talon?

[gloomy rose]

i think if anyone’s the epitome of pride it’s mauga and moira, and greed would probably be the junkers

[brave lintel]

I thought he was just some crime boss

[visual axle]

WHERES DOOM

[keen summit]

pride
tired of being underestimated
g

[gloomy rose]

yes he was the big italian guy that reaper killed during the blackwatch mission in rialto

[keen summit]

nah mauga would be gluttony

[gloomy rose]

gluttony? why?

[keen summit]

not as in food but over indulgence

[gloomy rose]

mmm

idk

[keen summit]

over indulgence, he finds fun in anything

[brave lintel]

Yea I didnt realize he was part of Talon. That makes more sense now

[visual axle]

Why would vendetta take over talon? Feel like she would hate them the most

[brave lintel]

So Vendetta is trying to reclaim her place in Talon leadership that she thinks she deserves

[keen summit]

just read her lore bro

[keen summit]

yes, specifically wanting to fuck over doom the most

[keen summit]

she feels like she was wronged by not inheriting the assets of his father and the council seat

[keen summit]

actually i think pride is better in general, because it doesnt seem to be money related but more greed as in "I DESERVE IT"
same with her wrath

pride id say is vendettas main thing, which is common in people who care alot for revenge

[visual axle]

I wonder how this will tie into fucking over reaper

This all seems pretty hype tbh

[keen summit]

she doesnt know who reaper is from what we know

[brave lintel]

Do you think that she even knows that Reaper is Gabriel?

[gloomy rose]

oh that’ll be juicy once she finds out

i bet sombra or moira tells her

[visual axle]

WHAT

[keen summit]

keep in mind most of the world thinks reyes is dead

[random leaf]

didnt really seem like she had a problem w reaper in her lore, just that her fathers sins caught up to him or smthn like that

[visual axle]

I didn’t even think abt this part I forgot a lot of Overwatch in the worlds eye is missing or dead

[brave lintel]

Most of the world also thinks that Jack is dead too

[visual axle]

Definitely sombra

[keen summit]

only ana reyes and soldier are presumed dead

[keen summit]

however its also possible she does knowq

as she does say revenge at last when killing reaper

but voicelines are quistionable

but she really doesnt seem to care bout her dad

though she does care it seems more like shes pretty okay with his death

[brave lintel]

If Vendetta does kill Doomfist...what is gonna happen in game?

[keen summit]

she does know, i stand corrected

[keen summit]

nothing

[brave lintel]

I mean, for the game to continue yea I get that

[keen summit]

and from the leak she throws him off a building

[brave lintel]

But what about like, future cosmetics, voicelines, and stuff

[keen summit]

doom can defo fake it

[keen summit]

still no changes

why would it change

[brave lintel]

Eh. Just curious

Also people are talking about a leak, I havent seen any leak lol

[keen summit]

it was a while back

[random leaf]

it'll never happen but i need him GONE from this game 🙏

[keen summit]

to shorten it
it talked about vendetta, she was as described
it talked about emre not looking the same, which is confirmed
vendetta taking over talon, all but confirmed
and how? by throwing doom off a building

3 of the claims are confirmed with immense accuracy

[spare fox]

Also they confirmed years and years ago that if a hero dies in lore, they will still be playable in-game

[quartz rampart]

i think at best he got his arm chopped off

he will rebound

[spare fox]

Yeah it doesn't make sense if they are making 10 years of a franchise to eliminate a villain for good

[peak escarp]

I don't think they'd actually kill him, just a fakeout so he can make a comeback later

[spare fox]

"Return of Doomfist" storyline in a few years

[peak escarp]

ye

[spare fox]

And I've said it about 10 times today and a million times since the leak but

Leaks aren't necessarily true

And even if they are, they are usually not 100% correct

[visual axle]

I remember dooms fate being “leaked”

[peak escarp]

the leak already got some things wrong

[spare fox]

Zero Hour was leaked as "a cinematic about young Genji saving Mei"

Which sounds awful and only after the fact that I get how someone vaguely familiar with overwatch would think that after seeing a little part of Zero Hour

[azure flint]

genji comic when

[boreal glen]

So what entirely does the new
Talon thing Overwatch has going on entail?

Like lore wise and for doomfist as well

I heard a friend say he was dead now?

[azure flint]

vendetta may kill or at least put doom out of commission as talon leader and become leader herself

according to a leak from a few months ago

[boreal glen]

I really hope it's just them feeding into his "Mass Conflict" lore. Doom is such a well put together villain who fits his character, and to just kill him off like that?

Especially after all the work they put into keeping him balanced and strong, yet complex to execute. His character gameplay feels like his lore.

He even got the privilege of the few characters to switch roles

[azure flint]

they wanna build her up as a new pillar for lore so they're doing this to make her seem intimidating

she's basically trying to seize talon bc she thinks it was stolen from her

[boreal glen]

That sucks, and still no ram or sigma lore development 😞

[azure flint]

ram's lore is basically over it seems

he made null sector retreat

[boreal glen]

Either she said "I'm la Lupa" and won or hopefully, he faked death or something for the ultimate plan or sum shi

(I'm coping)

[azure flint]

personally i think they're gonna leave doom's fate unknown so they can come back to him later

i don't think they would straight up kill him

[boreal glen]

Fingers crossed you're right

Overwatch is one of those games that has me tied down by characters ykwim?

[azure flint]

they just wanna build up vendetta as the new main character/villain rn

[boreal glen]

That's fair tho

I do enjoy playing her too

She feels a lot like dps fist

Makes me feel that high risk high reward feeling doing the 6v1 and somehow doing a dent before I get cc dumped

[azure flint]

smth gotta happen soon tho cuz this is the driest season in a while

[boreal glen]

I think they need to go back to the way they did lore cinematics late ow1 early ow2

And group ones would be cool again too

And I don't care if it permanently kills his lore. I think we can all agree rein needs a cinematic where he finally dies with glory

[azure flint]

well it's being theorized rn that we might get a new cinematic in the old style judging by the director of those old cinematics tweeting abt the talon thing

[boreal glen]

YES

YOURE BEING FR?

[azure flint]

he also hasn't tweeted since like early 2024 so

[boreal glen]

Thank you for telling me this you beautiful soul😭

[azure flint]

its not confirmed just ppl guessing

[boreal glen]

I'm gonna cope with the thought at least

[azure flint]

i suggested a few months ago that how they should tackle cinematics is keep the current style for hero trailers and old style for big lore vids

[boreal glen]

Yes

[azure flint]

whether thats possible or not idk but that'd be cool to see

[boreal glen]

And maybe revisit characters with only origins and give them further lore potentially

Like sigma for example

[azure flint]

like i said earlier i would love a genji comic lol

[boreal glen]

Lots of missed potential

[boreal glen]

Yes

[azure flint]

sigma backstory would be cool

like how he got into talon

[boreal glen]

Like how he came to accept what he is finally

[boreal glen]

Yesss

[stoic cedar]

guys this may sound stupid but why is Doomfist trending after the whole Talon rebranding?

[frozen cedar]

if we need to sacrifice doomfist to get new lore this year and a real history ill accept it

[boreal glen]

Idk, I've always been a doom meat rider tho lol

But fr tho, from what people have told me, he's going bye bye

[frozen cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/bestiesoutsold-overwatch-doomfist-symmetra-whip-gif-10131021011115291558

[pale valve]

Alright I'm sure it's been asked many times before but from a 1v1 perspective, who is the strongest hero in the lore? Like, a character who could beat every other character in 1v1s

All at full power and with all of their abilities in this scenario

[wise elk]

What the hell is this talon logo thing does anyone have any speculations?

[dusty gust]

feels like it means they MAY release a new character next season even if they technically released one last season

they teased anran when wuyang came out and enre when frej came out. I would like to believe that anran is the dps and enre is the tank, maybe they release a character per role next season? they seemed confident in this next season so I mean, THAT would be impressive

[stoic cedar]

I'm hoping we get another spotlight style event for the 2026 year

[young dragon]

Sigma. And then maybe Tracer.

These are among the few with outright laws-of-physics breaking powers. Though each has a huge cost and drawbacks.

[dusty gust]

same honestly, i rmbr they said in some dev blog that perks didnt actually push the envelope as much as they would like so releasing a character per role (similar to MR in there first season with fantastic four) could be really impactful and also justify the lack of tank in the entirety of 2025

the last tank we got was like dec 10th with hazard

of 2024

[pale valve]

Follow up question, does that technically make echo the strongest? Also how on earth can she copy all of these people

[dusty gust]

im not knowlegable enough in the lore to answer that question but thats a fire question

[pale valve]

Thank you twin

[young dragon]

Echo is unique. But it takes her time to learn new abilities and it's likely she cannot use them to the same extent as who she copies. She is the most advanced omnic on the planet. But she is an echo of whatever she learns, grows from, and adapts to.

[stoic cedar]

I doubt they'd go as far as speeding up their hero release schedule. I'm guessing 2026 will be a no DPS year since the 2026 DPS was pushed forward to 2025

[dusty gust]

straight fire response

[young dragon]

So yes, she could say, hit Sigma with a gravity surge. And he could hit her with multiple while insanely warping the entire environment without meaning to. He's dangerous to whatever place he at.

[pale valve]

Ah that makes sense, sometimes it's hard to differentiate from the gameplay and the lore, especially for characters who aren't given as many feats (or at the very least only get feats in the comics)

[dusty gust]

I mean, I def agree in the sense that I feel it would be a really out there change, but considering they havent changed their release cycle since overwatch came out, it be nice if they give us a lil burst of characters, but I do agree with you. seems unlikely

[young dragon]

Nah, I get it. Especially when you get into stuff we don't fully understand yet, such as Ram and Zen's understanding of whatever the Void is.

[stoic cedar]

I think they haven't changed it because it works. They got used to the flow of 4 months per character so they're keeping it that way. I wouldn't complain about an increase of heroes as long as it doesn't affect the quality

[frozen cedar]

IF Vendetta is able to win Doom a 1V1 means she enters in the trio of most powerful OW characters alongisde Sigma and Illari?

[pale valve]

Honestly I wish we got more Zen lore, I've always wanted a cinematic of him teaching Genji to be at peace with himself

Since they never showed it

[young dragon]

We see it here and there in comic panals, story lines, and such. But as it stands, all of that happened before we even got to Overwatch 1. Zen's been getting some good story content lately at least.

[pale valve]

In the pve missions we saw Sombra and Widow arrive in order to capture him, and I was really hoping that he'd finally be able to show off his actual power, and maybe it'd lead into the next mission

But nah, they took him without issue and brought him to rammatra by his request so they could talk

All this talk about not being a pacifist and he doesn't even try to fight back

[young dragon]

Yep. Basically "capture my friend and bring them to me so that I can ask them to lead with me before I do even worse things."

[dusty gust]

oh I agree, I def think its been a formula that works and I wouldnt mind a dps-less 2026, if it meant that they did all this to push the lore forward (considering ven and frej seem pretty important so far) ; however, I do think that if they dont release a character next season, after teasing Anran in wuyang's trailer and the first lore drop since ven trailer - as well as teasing enre in the lore drop after that, then they HAVE to do something HUGE. Like unthinkable huge

[pale valve]

Lmao and then Zenyatta said no anyways

But I don't think Ramattra would try putting one of those helmets on Zen

Not because they're brothers, but because Zen is way too strong to actually give them an opportunity and Ram knows that

[dusty gust]

I genuinely wonder what would happen if they put one of those helmets on someone like zen or echo

[pale valve]

Honestly I wonder if it would even affect Zen

[young dragon]

It presumably would impact Zen, but Echo's an unknown.

[pale valve]

Echo does have a ton of firewalls (as we learn in that one sombra interaction that states she has at LEAST 5) so maybe not

[young dragon]

Zen's one of the most common types of omnics. Like the base humanoid model that was mass-produced. Meanwhile Ram's a much rarer R-7000 and Bastion's line is infamous but may not or may not be compatible.

[dusty gust]

It seemed like they implied that the consciousness of the omnic is "stored" after the helmet is put but I genuinely wonder what that means. "Empty husks" but they were also somehow saved cause ram wouldnt hurt them? It's so interesting

[pale valve]

But Zen is presumably one of the only omnics with a connection to the Iris

Maybe that would nullify the helmet in some way

[young dragon]

Their bodies become empty husks. While their minds seemingly join a hivemind until they are released at a later date. It's weird.

[dusty gust]

its fire

[young dragon]

It's impossible to know until we know more.

Ram doing that to Zen would be wild though.

[pale valve]

I knowwww, I hate how that's usually the answer

Blizzard please do more with the lore it's so peak

[dusty gust]

i swear if overwatch touches on qualia in 2026, I would be fucking awestruck

[dusty gust]

infinite loreeeee

[pale valve]

genuinely they have so much to work with

Imagine an overwatch tv series like arcane

[dusty gust]

it would genuinely compete with the MCU at this point, unless doomsday is genuine peak

[boreal glen]

Sigma. But technically reinhardts earthshatter is able to split the earth (fan video) but it goes behind the physics of it and it's pretty cool

[pale valve]

I know it's just a voice line but sigma used to have a line where he said he detected a presence outside of their universe

Aka us, the player

Which is kind of insane if you think about it

[dusty gust]

I wonder where hazard falls considering he stole some unstable ass element

[valid jolt]

echo is a advanced ai robot with a personality core, she is not a omnic

same with orisa, bastion

[dusty gust]

I just looked up the origin story of echo, orisa, and bastion, while I do agree that orisa and echo were never referred to as omnics, but rather a "creation" or a "artificial intelligence," it is worth noting that bastion is described as a "curious omnic" on his very Overwatch Animated Short

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to8yh83jlXg

I do, however, think its very interesting if they explore the in-between, with characters like echo or orisa to see more nuance in the universe

[valid jolt]

hmm, bastion was disabled in the war, the war stopped because of the awakening, maybe bastion was partially affected by the awakening, maybe not, i do know that torb basically adopted bastion and probably modified some stuff.

[dusty gust]

that's true!

honestly it would be fire if they let us in on their take of what it means to be sentient and not

[boreal glen]

Yeah, someone made a joke about that saying all the terrible plays people make with him is what makes him all schizo lol

[pale valve]

LOL well they're not wrong, Sigma players are either the best players you've ever seen, or complete bots, no in-between

[boreal glen]

I can confirm as an ow1 bot and an ow2 God lol

[pale valve]

Real, I was so bad in ow1 lmao

[dusty gust]

Honestly, overwatch has everything it needs to touch on a concept that could even become a foundational stone in what we consider impactful in future media, so PLEASE OW GIVE US LORE

[boreal glen]

REAL

ESPECIALLY SIGMAAAS

[valid jolt]

if overwatch was a manga, that got adapted into game, we would have stronger lore, live service games with their own worlds need a lot of time.

[young dragon]

Kiriko has a short manga story at least.

[valid jolt]

a lore team is required for a live service game instead of a single writer, so that there can be filler story arcs to keep the audience connected

i assume they have a lore team now, and their focus currently is on moving the main story forward as much as possible.

[wise grotto]

We like just had a lore team hired fully back in I think November after Microsoft laid them off a while back

Not just a bit
A full team

[peak escarp]

strongest Overwatch hero is Winston

because he's got plot armor

Sigma, Symmetra and Lifeweaver are all potentially strong, because we don't know what they can actually do

Doomfist is quite strong, and Orisa was specifically designed to defeat him

Winston has beaten Doomfist once, and Reaper twice

I don't know why anyone thinks Illari or Tracer are among the strongest

[long steppe]

Magical power probably

Illari

[peak escarp]

her solar power isn't that strong

she didn't control the blast that wiped out the Inti warriors

[long steppe]

Means that if shes mad then we re cooked

[peak escarp]

why

the explosion wasn't caused by anger

[long steppe]

Like it always happens in movies idk

Like ciri in witcher

[peak escarp]

that explosion was probably a one-time thing

it's implied there was some interference

[long steppe]

Well she did want to do smth like this, cuz she wanted to show her actuall skill or no?

[peak escarp]

no

that ceremony was supposed to be a joyous moment, her becoming a true Inti warrior

[wise grotto]

The explosion came from the actual machine expelling the force hence why it also explodes

[peak escarp]

In order to store and control the sun’s power, each Inti Warrior was imbued with solar threading. As per tradition, the Inti Warriors all gathered for Illari’s augmentation ceremony, ready to welcome her with open arms. However, no one could have been prepared for the true extent of her power. Her procedure unleashed a devastating amount of solar energy from her body, causing a blast that destroyed the entire chamber. The Inti Warriors were gone, and so was the future Illari had spent her life preparing for.

[wise grotto]

She’s strong but like
Sym can defend an entire massive city solo without any casualties
Lw is supposed to be able to create so much at once he can repopulate a forest on his own

Sigma we know so little about other then control of gravity but not to whag extent he can actually use it

People just think “how could tracer get hit”

[peak escarp]

just watch Alive

Widowmaker kicks her ass at the end and breaks her chronal accelerator

[wise grotto]

When she still needs to THINK to do her things
Like world trigger (manga) has a move specifically that allows user to move at insanely rapid speeds but they need to preplan the pathing because it’s IMPOSSIBLE for a real person to think at that speed

Same goes for tracer

[peak escarp]

yeah, it's not automatic

same goes for Reaper - yeah he can turn into smoke, but he has to actively do it

[wise grotto]

She needs to KNOW where she’s gonna go
So she can fuck it up and has more then once in fights

[peak escarp]

get the jump on him and he's dead

[elfin bane]

wait really it be crazy if sombra messed up the solar tech for that

or maybe the conspiracy

[bold fern]

so with the talon makeover

and vendetta on the home screen

and the logo is a wolf

theres a chance she actually defeated doom 💀

[torn shale]

indica or sativa

[fossil wren]

Sombra is not like that

She's part of Talon, but she would never do something like that

[elfin bane]

true

i forgot she’s chill like that

[broken finch]

sativa

[fast ledge]

did mauga have a secret affair with ashe that we didn’t know about

[celest tiger]

WHERE are we getting this from😭😭😭😭😭

[fast ledge]

leaked files

the walten files

[chilly pivot]

Is freja a good character or part of talon?

[azure flint]

probably vigilante

shes a bounty hunter

[median orchid]

To me shes pretty down in the middle. Vigilante is the best word for her. She aint necesarily evil but not necesarily good.

[edgy tree]

Sigma can create micro-black holes(hyperspheres) I'd say that's preety strong

[edgy tree]

She only works for Talon because of Maximilian she doesn't activly want to be a part of it just like she doesn't want to come back to Overwatch she still is a omniccist? bounty hunter though

[limpid inlet]

I think she’s kinda anti hero

Or third party

[wise grotto]

Yes but we don’t know how much actual control he has over this in reality
By all means he could be entirely useless in any fight

[glad fox]

why do other people keep calling kiriko a kid? like i kinda get her calling herself a kid, but why others feeding her delusion?

[merry mason]

She’s canonically (somehow) 21 which is still young enough for old people to call you kid

[lost wedge]

True I get called a kid sometimes and I'm almost the same age as kiriko

She should be 26 though let's be real

[lost wedge]

I wonder what overwatch getting hacked by talon entails in the future

Maybe an event some new lore drops 🤷🏽‍♂️

[spare fox]

I'm guessing S21 will be Talon- themed

They're gonna up their lore game

At least that's what they said last year and this looks like a fulfillment of that promise

I wasn't hype for a spotlight but

Now I'm kind of getting my hopes up for one

[twilit patrol]

Season 21: Reign of Talon

[spare fox]

Is that official? I must have missed that

[ornate lynx]

im pretty sure the new drive insignia will be lucio themed

[limpid inlet]

21 is kinda a kid

[young dragon]

Indeed. It's implied and shown he's, unfortunately, getting better at using them. While becoming more stable and evil.

As we saw in his trailer, eventually he'll have a far better grasp of his powers...as a full-on villain.

[twilit patrol]

Nah I just guess it’s gonna be the title

[young dragon]

Yep. We saw it revealed earlier or it was datamined.

[spare fox]

Yeah that's what I was wondering - how it was found out

[slim turtle]

so whats up with this talon take over thing

did they release anything about it? is there some kind of event or anything

[peak escarp]

it's teasers for s21

[young dragon]

While Overwatch is slowly regaining legitimacy, it’s is on its own while Talon increasingly keeps struggling from within.

Meanwhile Null sector has pulled back|| while the Conspiracy behind much of this plot is only just starting to, very slowly, make itself known to a few specific people. With Emre seemingly its slave||.

||Apparently, Vendetta is about to publicly mess Doomfist up, including cutting off his arm. So that she can seize his place and try to dismantle the organization in favor of her own empire.

Meanwhile Talon is about to publicly raid the renewed Overwatch for the first time. Apparently this sequence is playable.

There’s a lot of storyline players now and after repeated setbacks, Talon wants to humiliate and disrupt the embers of the organization they beat in the past.||

Basically, the story is getting more complex and essentially moving away from act 1. This is a live event designed to increase hype in preparation for the new season, which will apparently include a fun gameplay mode.

[torn shale]

sybau

[median orchid]

Let him cook

[edgy tree]

Well he's the one keeping them from getting unstable with his mind (you can see it in the hero select they kinda grow when he's thinking about smth before snapping out of it)

[slim turtle]

tysm!

[peak escarp]

please do not treat leaks/rumors as truth

we don't know if any of that is true

[slim turtle]

its all factual, i asked my dad and he works for microsoft

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting

[minor sapphire]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[slim turtle]

🙄 got it dude

[slim turtle]

this guys is working with the omnics btw

[peak escarp]

so?

not all omnics are bad

[median orchid]

Casual Omnicism

[lyric chasm]

ow's lore is a bit more morally grey than that 😭

[young dragon]

Freja's complicated and a bit selfish.

It's pretty heavily implied that while she liked doing good things as a search and rescue agent, she also did it more for how it made her feel personal satisfaction than anything else.

[lyric chasm]

Yes, this complexity is present in many of the characters and entities in the lore, that's why the "is she a good guy or bad guy (talon)" is bad way to look at ow lore

a key element to Overwatch's fall was how they ended up creating BW and acting in ways that weren't internationally condoned, the grey morals is at the core of the story

[storm parrot]

why do we have talon symbol now in overwatch?

[twilit patrol]

They're teasing lore

[storm parrot]

ooh OWO

[twilit patrol]

This is actually very big

Maybe the strongest teaser we ever had

[storm parrot]

indeed i am looking forward

[fossil wren]

We are evil now too

[fossil wren]

It's good to see Blizzard putting more effort into the lore, in just one month we had two comics and now this

[twilit patrol]

Yeah they're keeping their promise for now and the game is turning 10 yo so it's really great

I see 2026 as a brand new beginning

[peak escarp]

imagine if they had done this in s6 for Null Sector

[shrewd pivot]

In Freja's case, I saw it clearly that she is written as an anti-villain (a character doing bad things but the character thinks they are the hero and in the right). Freja is not a "good guy", she is an adrenaline junkie chasing the highs of the thrill of the hunt.

She did the right things (search and rescue) for the wrong reasons (thrill). Her story clearly shows original overwatch's issues and how corruption over time led to og overwatch's downfall. Blackwatch was a part of that. It got so bad that even Emre left, but Freja chose to stay in overwatch. She is upset the world 'turned on overwatch' and blames the downfall of overwatch on 'bad apples' like Reyes etc, but she became the very same 'bad apple' being a bounty hunter for hire, no morality just ego and cash.

Plus, she is anti-omnic. No real moral hero can be anti-omnic when awakened omnic citizens are clearly sapient and deserve equal rights to human citizens. She's not a good person, even if she did helpful things in the past. She represents the kind of corruption that caused overwatch's downfall: people doing the right things for the wrong reasons, all while thinking they are actually moral heroes.

And I appreciate that writing! It is refreshing to have this stated clearly on why og overwatch fell.

[lyric chasm]

Agreed, apart from the "no moral person can be anti-omnic", there's more complexity and legitimacy to human hate of omnics in OW lore than that

[azure turret]

@shrewd pivot

[shrewd pivot]

Oh is it fixed?

Yay

[shrewd pivot]

But yes, to reply properly now lol

Trauma from war can make a human hesitant or fearful of omnics, but to try and destroy awakened omnics or treat awakened omnics like objects is not moral. Numbani shows that omnics and humans can live as equals. Even if a human was afraid that omnics could be hacked again, then Genji, Sojourn, Hazard, or any disabled person with certain prosthesis are all "potential threats" too. And if that's the case, those humans that feel that strongly can go live in thier own little cities without such tech, there is no need to attack awakened omnics and prosthesis users.

Junkers fight zombie omnics called "feral omnics", but I think the Junkers would still go out to destroy regular awakened omnics. Obviously bad guy stuff.

Humans know awakened omnics are sapient beings. Torbjörn's story of anti omnic to pro omnic shows that being anti omnic is not moral. He even adopts Bastion into the family :)

[azure turret]

Idk what changed tbh

[shrewd pivot]

Me neither! But I am happy to talk lore haha

[azure flint]

this lore shit deep

[shrewd pivot]

I'm currently confused on how old Emre is supposed to be. Or like, when Freja joined overwatch search and rescue.

[shrewd pivot]

Because Pharah's bio image
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/pharah/

Emre looks older than Mercy and Cassidy. Mercy was said to be 17 in that art, which makes Cassidy 17. Emre served in the military (18) prior to joining overwatch, so he might be like 20 minimum in the art?

Pharah and Freja are the same age. Pharah is 12/13 (bc of how birthdays line up) in the art.

So Emre is probably... 8 years older than Freja???

The Venice incident occured 10 years ago ow2.

Freja is currently 34.

Freja was around 23-24, 10 years ago from the Venice incident.

Emre had already left overwatch prior to the Venice incident. Meaning Emre met Freja at the latest when she was 22-23 and he was... 30/31? Which uh. That's... a notable age gap. And they have written Freja having romantic subtext with Emre.

This is like, minimum age gap btw. 8 years. I would be very suprised if Emre was 19 in the art but that's possible ig. Still. 7+ years is a big age gap for a early 20s Freja to pursue lol, considering she probably worked with Emre for more than 1 year. She might have met Emre when she was 21-22.

That bag of worms aside 😭

I am very curious to what Emre's connections are with the eye conspiracy. SO SO hype to see what the eye conspiracy actually is about.

I wonder if Emre stumbled into the eye conspiracy like Sombra, but unlike Sombra he failed to escape. It seems like he is being controlled like a sleeper agent.

[spare fox]

it's not that big of an age gap...

why is this fandom so hung up on age gaps lol - they were both adults

but I think Emre is about 40ish now

he's got to be a smidge older than Cassidy, since he was in the Turkish forces before OW, so at least a little time after he was 17-18 min

but don't get too hung up on it, his age hasn't even been announced yet

[shrewd pivot]

Probably because don't deem adulthood by puberty, but by when the human brain finishes development which is around mid 20s. Also, the safest time for humans to have kids is mid 20s to late 20s. Society likes to say 18 is a fully grown adult, but biologically it really isn't. I hope this is ok to explain.

But yeah, I am guessing they will break lore and make Emre impossibly young, hopefully lol.

[shrewd pivot]

Military service is 18, so... imo he MIGHT be 19 in the art, but 20 makes more sense?

Really it matters when Emre and Freja met. If Freja was like 22 chasing after a 30 year old its a bit awkward lol

[spare fox]

it wouldn't even matter - they didn't date or anything when they knew each other back then - his mom just teased them that's it

it's a moot point

[spare fox]

some places let you join the military as young as 16/17 as long as you finish secondary school, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Again, tho

we don't even have his age yet

[shrewd pivot]

There is a good bit of subtext that implies Freja has romantic feelings for Emre in how it's written.

Also, Freyja in norse mythos famously goes by many names and chases after a lost husband. Freja even wears a necklace which hints are Freyja's norse lore about a magical necklace.

If they did not intend this, then that's an awkward oopsie.

[spare fox]

like... they aren't married tho?

[shrewd pivot]

Yes, but overwatch writers made Pharah join the military at 18.

Trust me, I hope you are right lol

[spare fox]

and a 22 y/o having a crush on a 30 y/o is not weird at all come on 🙄

if that even is the case

[shrewd pivot]

Freja is chasing after Emre who was lost. It's pretty on point as a nod to Freyja norse mythos.

[spare fox]

it doesn't have to be 1:1 to be an homage or reference

[shrewd pivot]

If the 30 year old returns the feelings it's a bit odd imo? But we don't have any clues to that.

I just hope if there is romance, it's not like an 8 year age gap.

But yeah, we have to wait to see his age

[torpid plank]

is doomfist dying omg what is up with this talon stuff

😦

[spare fox]

it's such a weird thing to be hung up on but it's not a problem since they weren't even dating during their OW service

his mom just made a joke

[shrewd pivot]

Reminder: Doomfist has a prosthetic arm :)

[torpid plank]

is his arm going to blow up..

😧

[spare fox]

there's a leak/rumor about it, but that's all it is - a rumor

it's unverified

[torpid plank]

when vendetta kills him and replaces him as the head.

exactlyyyy

😧

[spare fox]

"leaks" even if they prove to be true... Big IF - they usually get a lot of details wrong

so just hang tight and see what happens

[torpid plank]

oh yeah is dva actually into brig or is it just speculation.

[spare fox]

speculation

[torpid plank]

cuz ive been seeing a lot of fan art of heart of hope brig and dva together@#*$&

[torpid plank]

ouuu

[spare fox]

again it's a weird ship that's based solely on the fact that they're close in age

this fandom is really really weird about ages for real

[shrewd pivot]

Which is odd to joke about with an age gap lol I would be mortified too.

It was only that it seemed odd to me Emre looked so young in the comics despite being like 40s, and then people pointed out Pharah and Freja are the same age.

But I agree, no need to worry, I can only comment once the official age is out tbf!

[torpid plank]

pharah and freja are the same age??

😧

[shrewd pivot]

Yep! 34 in overwatch 2

[torpid plank]

PHARAH IS 34????@#($*&@#

[shrewd pivot]

You can check ages on the Overwatch website :)

[torpid plank]

i mean it does make sense, but to me she gives off late 20s.

😦 ..

she has that fiery and young spirit ( not to say 30s is old ), but idk.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, there was definitely some moving around of ages to fix lore.

For example, Sojourn was 47, but then suddenly updated to 51, so that her twin sister had a baby at 18 in her novel and not younger.

[torpid plank]

kiriko grew up with the shimada brothers but is 20+ years old..

😭

[shrewd pivot]

I believe DVA and Mercy were younger, but then made older.

Brigitte had her age changed

Sojourn age edit

Crew said Freja was 28 but then she released as 34.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. Kiriko’s lore only works if she is like 29, but she is canonically 21.

[torpid plank]

honestly she can pass off as 28ish.

idk why they didn't make her that age.

maybe they wanted like a young girls brigade ( example in the le sserafim music video ).

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah me either. Her being older 20s would explain her lore of being a gang leader

[torpid plank]

yup!

honestly her gang teammates look so cool..

i wish they would release them but i kinda don't want any more east asian heroes. kinda oversaturated.

[azure flint]

blizzard needs to retcon kiris age already in some way

maybe through an interaction

[wise grotto]

She should be around 27-28 for her age to make sense with lore

Unfortunately she’s 21

[torpid plank]

" the kitsune spirit makes me age slower "

or something @#&^&#@$

😭

[wise grotto]

Like her being 27-28 would literally fix everything with the set we’ve seen of her training with them

She looks like she’s still like 6 when genjis around 16

[torpid plank]

!

[wise grotto]

Except 27 is still young especially on a cast of old heads

Just make kiri 27 or 28 it’s that simple and everything except her singular stated age points to that anyway

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah agreed

[wise grotto]

It’s like they just haven’t edited the one mistake they made

[spare fox]

yeah the kiriko age thing is a dead horse we've discussed to death

[shrewd pivot]

Also, I would love more omnic heroes but I agree T0kage, we need heroes from other parts of the world that have not been explored in lore yet, so no yōkai gang omnic members pls.

[wise grotto]

Yea
Most kiriko things are fairly simple fixs of just “change one number or explain tiny thing”

[shrewd pivot]

I am still curious about De Classified saying something was swimming off the California coast lol.

[wise grotto]

But it’s just a lot of different gaps they just haven’t gotten to

[shrewd pivot]

Also man man mannn I am still thinking about what the eye conspiracy actually could be lol

It's been so long... finally... perhaps a hint at what the eye conspiracy really is about....

[azure flint]

either a new group or just some kind of anomaly

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah honestly i don't see the chemistry for DVA x Brigitte like others do. Often I see people forget DVA is also a mechanic to her mech. I could see them maybe talking about gear head stuff together in canon, but that's it tbh.

[shrewd pivot]

I do wonder if it's an ai, or a group of people. Either way it's dangerous enough to make Sombra go into hiding like she did, and iirc it made her come to the conclusion "sides don't matter" so it must be a big revelation. 😁 hype!!!

[young dragon]

It’s going to take a while for us to learn about it.

[woeful mulch]

Anyone can dm a good lore YouTube video to catch up on the lore? 💔🙏😭

[peak escarp]

cybernetics are not susceptible to the same sort of takeover as omnics

[fallow mantle]

Algo inesperado está por pasar - Something unexpected is about to happen

Translated message

[peak escarp]

also 8 years isn't that big of a relationship gap - my brother is 9 years older than his wife

I don't see that much romantic subtext between Freja and Emre, more like he was someone she looked up to and admired

[grand wedge]

Emre must be around 44-46

[peak escarp]

that would make sense

and to the people complaining "well he doesn't look that old in the comic" a) art is subjective and b) the artist also forgot Moira's withered arm

[shrewd pivot]

If Emre is being controlled by the eye conspiracy, his cybernetics are most likely the way he is being controlled. That means cybernetics users can be "hacked" suddenly similar to how an omnic can be "hacked" suddenly.

Emre would be the first time a cybernetics user is being "hacked" which poses implications for worldbuilding. It would explain why Sojourn faced so much discrimination in her novel for being a cyborg.

[peak escarp]

you're making assumptions

he could be controlled through hypnosis, or conditioning (like Widowmaker was)

or the suit he's wearing isn't a type of cybernetics at all, but just a sort of mech suit they forced him into

and not all cybernetics users have cybernetic brain implants - Sojourn, Genji and Doomfist have them, but Cassidy, Torbjorn and Junkrat don't

so fearing that all cyborgs can be hacked is unfounded fearmongering

[shrewd pivot]

I mean. How else would Emre be controlled so suddenly? His design seems to indicate his cybernetics have something to do with it because the eye conspiracy symbol on his chest. There was a spray with the eye conspiracy on an arcade machine, it feels like that was a hint and not just random.

And sure, he could be like Widowmaker. Ig I would just assume they would do more than a brainwashing since Widowmaker already has that lore covered.

[peak escarp]

what do you mean suddenly?

the comic implies that he's been like this for years

[shrewd pivot]

Junkrat and Cassidy are prosthesis users, not cyborg.

Cyborg are like Genji, Sojourn, and Hazard, people who have to use the prosthesis to stay alive, additionally those three have weaponry in the prosthesis.

And I agree it is unfounded fear mongering, Sojourn dealt with some extreme anti-cyborg discrimination in her novel. :(

[shrewd pivot]

As in, it's a sudden switch when his eyes go black, it's a sudden change in demeanor. Presuming he is being controlled, and its not a simple sleeper agent protocol.

[peak escarp]

well, Junkrat's prosthetics are low tech, but Cassidy and Torbjorn's are definitely cybernetic

to me a cyborg is any human with cybernetics

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair.
I personally distinguish prosthesis users from full cyborgs. Full cyborgs would most likely die if thier prosthesis failed like with Sojourn and Genji. A prosthesis user like Torbjörn, Cassidy, would simply lose ability.

[peak escarp]

what about Mauga

he'd die if his prosthetic hearts failed

[lyric chasm]

well cyborgs are people with cybernetics

[peak escarp]

but outwardly he looks like a (very large) normal person

[shrewd pivot]

That's a fair one too. Iirc He does have a human heart still, but he could die if the second prosthetic one stopped.

[lyric chasm]

i guess it depends on the story that uses the trope

[peak escarp]

he had his original heart replaced too

[shrewd pivot]

Nah he is Roided out looking haha. His body prior to getting his heart surgery, that is a normal looking guy. His prosthetic heart gave his body more oxygen, and his muscles are super huge now.

[shrewd pivot]

Really? I could have sworn he had one human heart, one prosthetic heart. Let me check that mb.

[peak escarp]

another example of "that's not how it works in real life"

I don't remember where it was said, probably one of the dev updates about him

it's not that important

[shrewd pivot]

iirc it's not uncommon in certain heart surgeries to keep the og heart to the side.

[peak escarp]

you don't have to reply to every single message while we're having a conversation

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I think the lore says he got a new prosthetic heart, keeping his old human heart. But then he got many upgrades afterwards, so he probably has an augmented human heart in some way, not fully natural anymore.

...sorry? I just want to make it clear who/what I am replying to.

[peak escarp]

I get pinged every time you do it

you can turn off the ping

I can understand what you're replying to based on context

also we're the only ones talking right now

[craggy bolt]

Nah

Im here 2

[shrewd pivot]

Okay, sorry.

As for Freja, there is romantic subtext, and the fact Freyja from norse mythos is a goddess of many names that is searching for her lost husband. It lines up as a trope.

And an age gap isn't inherently bad, it just depends when the people meet! So... Ideally a 20ish year old would not be chasing a 30ish year old lol. Late 20s can date older and it's not too bad.

I'm not looking for ships here, I am indifferent on if Freja x Emre is canon, I just hope it's not a big age gap IF it's canon.

If anything, the age difference makes it seem like Emre should be a mentor to Freja, but for whatever reason Freja is written with romantic subtext.

The maths say Freja was at most 23 when she met Emre, but probably younger.

Also, Emre is Turkish, culturally Muslim if not Muslim himself. Usually Muslim men are pretty reserved and do not place hands on shoulders of women coworkers unless that woman is sister/mom or is his date, it's a cultural personal space thing.

[craggy bolt]

Wtffff

Omg

[shrewd pivot]

I will have to wait and see his official age.

[craggy bolt]

Whos?

[shrewd pivot]

Emre

Out of all of this tho, I personally don't understand why they made Emre have lighter hair 😅 Ig he dyed his hair dark while in overwatch...?

[craggy bolt]

Ohh i did not see the comek book tbh idk how to type it

[shrewd pivot]

The motion comic, yeah. It's pretty interesting tbh! Freja's voice actor does a good job selling the emotions.

[craggy bolt]

Wait is emre anas husband

[shrewd pivot]

Nope!

Sam is Ana's husband, Sam is First Nations from Canada.

Emre is a much younger overwatch agent from Turkey.

[lyric chasm]

The thing between Emre and Freja is a personal interpretation. I like it romantically, but nothing implies it's romantic in nature, just that they have a deep bond. Only Emre's parents joke on it, but as all parents do.

And yeah, as long as both are adults and consensual, so be it, the rest is personal preferences and opinions.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah. More so, as long as a relationship that is unhealthy isn't written as if it IS healthy, it's all good.

[lyric chasm]

well, that's personal preference once again

literature and art has all kinds of goals, and its not necessarily to be a moral guide

[peak escarp]

I don't see it

then again I don't see a lot of the romantic subtext the community says is there

[shrewd pivot]

"That's just preference" -- HR rules would like to disagree! Lol

Sure it's fiction, but it's important to make it clear when unhealthy things are unhealthy in a T rated optumistic future story imo. If overwatch was an adult series, then you can explore such things meaningfully without the potential of misinforming youth.

That's fair, it's definitely romantic subtext not outright statement, for all we know maybe Freja's VA added unintentional sauce lol

[azure flint]

lore channel finally has someone to rival doctor six

[peak escarp]

lol no

besides, we've got plenty of other lore nerds

[shrewd pivot]

I don't know if its a bad thing or good thing...? Haha
but I do enjoy the discussions here. I hope I'm not too bothersome, pardon.

I do plan to write an ow rewrite one day, so I deep dove into overwatch lore. Overwatch as an ip has great potential for worldbuilding!

[peak escarp]

a rewrite...

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, just to fix inconsistencies, and rewrite some heroes to be better reps. It's a very fun worldbuilding to play with.

My headcanon does not merge into my understanding of canon though. I look at the intentions of ow writers and implications of lore to piece together what ow canon there is.

[peak escarp]

I dislike rewrites or attempts to "fix" canon

it's very presumptuous

[shrewd pivot]

That's fair.
Overwatch does a decent job at most rep, but for example Pharah's rep never sat right with me because of things like her line with Kiriko.

Pharah: I don't work with criminals.
Kiriko: What's right isn't always what's legal.
Pharah: Then you change the laws.
Kiriko: Easy for you to say.

I wouldn't change Pharah's core identity as a Helix guard, just recontextualize it.

Regardless, I like having Ana and Pharah as canon characters in overwatch :)

[peak escarp]

a lot of the voice lines don't get the character right