lore-discussion

[spare fox]

Unrelated: I totally called it about H45 being the first to hate pineapple on pizza

[wise grotto]

Also not what I dislike about her story

[spare fox]

(and of course we got the usual mob saying "Jeff was WRONG/omg RETCON)

[wise grotto]

I just think it seems like a couple things barely explained well consistently while also not generally being that good of a character anyway

[spare fox]

Ok, but there are loads of things that are barely explained or not explained at all (yet) and they don't get the "omg bad writing" hate Kiriko gets:
Cassidy's arm
Wtf Doomfist is doing in space
What Roadhog did to piss off JQ before teaming up w Junkrat
Hanzo apparently fully believing he killed his brother w a sword yet no one noticed genji getting saved by OW after the fight
Ram's weird plan to kidnap omnic consciousness but leave the bodies to be scooped up
Zenyatta's whole backstory

[wise grotto]

Did you wanna ignore the “but ALSO isn’t that good of a character” part
Though doomfist in space still makes 0 sense

Hanzo being in shock post murdering his brother visciously and wanting to leave the body based on everything else about him makes a lot of sense

Zens backstory not making sense kinda seems purposeful (it’s literally made fun of via voice lines)
Cass arm is one of a lot of people who’ve replaced limbs with cybernetics this makes sense in universe without an explanation

And roadhog has been offered to come back to junkertown as far as I remember but declined

But kiris everything always felt like a sore thumb
People who know nothing about the game have pointed out how weird kiri seems ability and powers wise

[obtuse tiger]

her kitsune is also stupid

literally genetically modified

and experimented on

[sudden wolf]

it is not that hard to not do this when you have a team of people contributing to the writing

a mistake like that should never make it through to the finished product when you have a team of writers lol

[spare fox]

ok but why are y'all able to suspend disbelief for those heroes - turning blue due to a slowed heart rate, turning into vapor and then reassembling cell by cell into the same entity, teleporting using light, living through god knows how many bombs going off in their face, turning into an unkillable undestroyable block of ice and healing, turning invisible using hacks... but oh no, a hologram of a fox, THAT's where the writing makes no sense

[sudden wolf]

because there is an attempt made in their designs and lore to explain it in a way that follows the set rules of the universe

kiriko does not do that

[uneven ruin]

Reaper and Moira are all about back from the dead so maybe tapping into spiritual realm can be sci fi for hanzo and kiriko - like ghostbusters spirit tech style?

[sudden wolf]

you have to come up with an explanation yourself that it's a hologram or something because there is no attempt made to explain it and nothing in her design that inherently explains it (like rein shield)

[spare fox]

rein shield isn't explained either - it's just as much as an assumption

[wise grotto]

Everyone except kiri has context clues of some kind

That’s a big kicker

[sudden wolf]

he is surrounded by and close friends with engineers one of which has an identical shield

[sudden wolf]

exactly this

[obtuse tiger]

smth like this

2 minutes so dont mind bad placements

why is mauga there

[sudden wolf]

wait i want to do this now lol

too bad i have no image perms

[obtuse tiger]

mauga and dva swap

dva advanced tech

[uneven ruin]

I don’t think dragon arrows has a lot of backstory in the movie/game?

[obtuse tiger]

dk how i missed those

[spare fox]

ok and kiriko lives in a world where hard light exists that can do crazy things like make objects out of light, teleport people, (sym) and heal people (lifeweaver) - why do they get a pass but kiriko doesn't? maybe she learned the tech as part of her training to care for others and concentrate on her sills

[sudden wolf]

i don't really fw them either kiriko is just worse

[uneven ruin]

Anyway I’m going with ghostbusters fox spirit

[sudden wolf]

for the like fifth time they get a pass because an attempt is made to explain the technology

[sudden wolf]

you have to insert your own headcanon for why kitsune isn't magic because it isn't explained

[wise grotto]

Everyone else has like tech somewhere to be consistent even if it’s not obvious immediately

Kiri doesn’t

[uneven ruin]

Doesn’t kiri literally talk about the spirit world? I assume “spirit world” isn’t like next to Hot Topic at the mall

Where you can buy hard light foxes and shrine paths

And get your lip pierced

[wise grotto]

That’s the issue people have you need to make up things that have nothing to ground the theory to
Everyone else has some form of tech doing it or something that could reasonably explain it on there weapons
Reaper and Moira are both genetically modified by the same person
Hanzo and genji have tech in there weapons or themselves
Hardlight shields are honestly fairly common overall

[sudden wolf]

she also just has like 0 tech in her design

every other character has some kind of technology, even the barest minimum like gloves, except for kiriko

[spare fox]

You seriously don't see how you're allowing for the leap/suspension of disbelief for all those heroes, yet you're just dismissing any plausible explanations for Kiriko as "we shouldn't HAVE to make that leap"
Kiriko's theme is all about forging her own path- mixing the modern with the traditional. The traditional is the healing and discipline of her mother/grandmother, respect for the fox spirit. In a world where hard light shields and weapons exist, it's reasonable that she would take those concepts from her mother/grandma and manifest them into a protection using tech that pays homage to tradition that means so much to her

[azure flint]

this lore shit serious

[sudden wolf]

be ready to die behind it

[sudden wolf]

this would all be fine and dandy if this was given to us in game except it isn't

[spare fox]

just like with Cass's arm and Zen's backstory, they havem't explained it YET

[sudden wolf]

kiriko has no connection to hardlight technology whatsoever, she doesn't wear anything that points to her using technology and not spirits, there is no technology in her kit, it's literally just explained as spirit energy

[spare fox]

they're not going to be upfront and dump everything all in one go in an ongoing narrative live service - otherwise comics and cinematics wouldn't be as entertaining

[azure flint]

just say bob ripped it off

ez

[digital star]

Widowmaker being considered a normal human with no tech is a wild take

[azure flint]

when he turned evil

[sudden wolf]

Okay but again her design does not point to technology being used here

maybe if she had like

Some glowy cool technology bracelets

Some kind of futuristic visor

anything that says "hey this character isn't just using magic"

[spare fox]

like how her hands and eyes glow? it's not on theme for her - she's traditional

[sudden wolf]

Genji is literally a robot

😭

[digital star]

Widowmaker has a futuristic wallhacking visor

[sudden wolf]

genji is a traditional samurai monk fusion and he is Literally a Robot

[sudden wolf]

and also again these things do not point to technology but magic

[spare fox]

again, the writers have said that it isn't magic and they have never alluded to magic in the game, but you dismiss that because it doesn't fit your "nah the writers are dumb bullshitters" narrative

[sudden wolf]

sojourn has glowing eyes but she is also full of prosthetics and little hints to the tech she's using

[sudden wolf]

Her Design Does Not Say Technology It Just Says Magic

[spare fox]

no one has ever said magic - magic does not exist in the OW universe

[sudden wolf]

except for kiriko

[spare fox]

factually incorrect but go off

[sudden wolf]

also can you send a screenshot where they say this specifically about kiriko or address her at all

because as far as i could find

[spare fox]

glowing staffs and glowing orbs that heal couldn't possibly be related to glowing ofuda that heal? creatures made of light couldn't possibly be related to shields/weapons/teleporters/trees made of light?

[sudden wolf]

yes they could be if there was anything in her lore or design that connected them

that is the core issue

these things could be plausible explanations if she was linked to any of them at all

[digital star]

I think it's just a matter of semantics

[sudden wolf]

literally all it would've taken was a very mild tweak to her backstory

[spare fox]

they say it about the OW UNIVERSE, and Kiriko is part of the OW universe in which there is no magic. YOU are the one who has to prove that somehow Kiriko isn't part of the universe and has no connection to it at all. Being part of the universe in which this tech exists IS the connection and all the connection that there needs to be

[sudden wolf]

it drives me up a wall just because it would've been so easy to explain it as technology or heavily imply that she borrowed it elsewhere

like that she stole some hardlight and used it to make the kitsune because vishkar is already painted as unethical and evil

[digital star]

Media that labels itself pure sci-fi doesn't call fantasy powers "magic", usually they'd label it as other stuff like psionics (psychic powers) or "The Force" in Star Wars for example

So it's like a sci-fi version of magic, which isn't called magic because it isn't fantasy genre

[sudden wolf]

great point and i earnestly think that a star wars equivalent to what kiriko is in OW lore would be some random jedi being able to produce fire

[spare fox]

why does it make you so mad? you're making yourself mad by doing circe d'soleil level gymnastics to prove she isn't part of the OW universe

[sudden wolf]

they'll never call it magic but it really is just magic and i think kiriko is a particularly egregious example because no explanation is attempted

[sudden wolf]

dude what

of course she's part of the OW universe she's just poorly written into it

[spare fox]

but how can she be part of the OW universe if she's magic?

[sudden wolf]

🧍

[digital star]

i don't think anyone is saying she isn't part of the OW universe?

[spare fox]

Everything fantastical about the OW universe is technology-based. There is no magic in the OW universe. Kiriko is part of the OW universe, therefore Kiriko does not use magic.
It's not a leap at all that she can use some form of hard light tech or similar - it's fairly common and accessible - just like rein and brig's shields can be assumed to be hard light tech or similar. Just because it isn't mentioned that it's hard light, doesn't mean she would not have access to it. It's not like she's isolated from the rest of the world. Just like Rein/Brig have access through engineers, Kiriko has connections to the criminal underworld and skilled fighters - getting some hard light adjacent tech is certainly more plausible than "it's magic"

[sudden wolf]

i think you're reading to reply and not reading to understand because i already addressed this point maybe five times

[spare fox]

Also, you're arguing that it's NOT technology because it isn't mentioned to be technology, yet you're arguing that it IS magic when no magic is specifically mentioned either

[spare fox]

you addressed it but did not logically rebut it. I provided evidence and logical conclusions and you're dismissing them because you don't want to hear them

[sudden wolf]

the logical rebuttal is that, yes, all of those things could be plausible explanations if they were given as explanations at all in her backstory

or if they were hinted at in her design

they don't have to tell you that lightweaver worked with hardlight because he uses hardlight in his kit

they don't have to tell you that reinhardt's shield is engineered technology because his entire design is an overengineered suit of armor

[spare fox]

they don't have to be given as explanations to be plausible, though. That's the connection that you're ignoring/missing

you claiming that it is bad writing is subjective

[sudden wolf]

they don't have to tell you that moira uses some nebulous technology for her abilities because she is infused with tubing, wires, and things that all point to her power being technology-based

[spare fox]

and does not mean that said plausible explanations don't exist or follow the rationality of the game

[sudden wolf]

kiriko is a young adult woman wearing leggings who uses spirit power with nothing in her design or lore or backstory that supports that being technology even if there are reasonable explanations in-universe

the fact that you have to come up with the explanation and the connection is the issue

[wise grotto]

Ok so your essentially just dismissing the issues people have with kiri because “well if you can accept others” despite others having context clues that show tech could be doing all this

And kiri doesn’t have it

That’s the whole damn point
That’s it

[sudden wolf]

widow's skin being purple is stupid and unrealistic but at least explained and given a somewhat logical reason to exist

and even that you can kind of piece together just through her design

[spare fox]

I didn't have to come up with the explanation/connections because they are there, existing and observable within the narrative. She exists in a world with no magic and high tech solutions to problems that don't even exist yet. You are the one that is denying those connections that are given to you, because you want to insist it's bad writing.

[wise grotto]

You have to jump through hoops to give kiri excuses everyone else is either a basic observation of “we see tech there” or they give an explanation

[sudden wolf]

^

i understand that based on their own rules it has to be technology somehow but the problem is that the technology just isn't there

[wise grotto]

Show me the context clues of kiri gets
Show me what part of her character reacts in any way to do the things she does
Tell me what lore she has that mentions tech doing this

You know what every other character in the game has

[spare fox]

it's not exactly jumping through hoops, it's not like they said Kiriko swore off technology and is a total luddite or anything

[sudden wolf]

you don't look at kiriko and think "high sci fi technology magic", you just think "magic"

unlike other characters like mercy or zenyatta or wuyang

[wise grotto]

Nobody’s saying that

We’re literally saying that there’s nothing contextualizing any of it like every other character has

You have to make the context yourself to give it to her instead of there being ANYTHING

[sudden wolf]

yes you get it

even hazard, as kind of dumb and bad as his design is, still has more pointing to technology than magic to explain his crystals

illari is also in kiriko tiers of defying the no magic thing

illari who was born in a society full of people who have sun magic in their blood lol

[wise grotto]

She has stuff in her body that lights up in accordance plus techs used to infuse them

Illari has at least most aspects explained

Some missing

Kiris just there

[sudden wolf]

yeah she's her own case but at least she does have that context in her design

she has the overwatch technology 'flair'

[spare fox]

because the technology is not part of her design or theme - she's not a scientist, she's a traditionally-trained fighter/healer with a spritual background that embraces the new. The glowing parts of her kit and design are analogous to the other glowing aspects heroes that work exactly the same - lifeweaver's tree, Mercy's staff, Illari's ult, Rein shield, Sym teleporter

[sudden wolf]

hanzo is probably the most traditional character in game and even he has technology incorporated in his design

[wise grotto]

Yea but everyone except kiri has technology incorporated to get any of there stuff to make any sense

All of those other examples you give do that and add context clues
Except kiri

[sudden wolf]

the glowing parts of her kit are not analogous to other glowing aspects because everything you just listed is either embedded in technology or already explained by other technological aspects of the lore like hardlight

[wise grotto]

Kiris stuff doesn’t function like anything else actively looks different and she has nothing on her to imply that it’s technology and no backstory to imply it is either

[sudden wolf]

also kiriko's whole like thing as obnoxious as she is about it is breaking tradition or changing tradition where needed

the only traditional thing about her is the fact that she uses a traditional japanese spirit

[wise grotto]

Kiri is just missing something that’s consistently done for every other hero

Everyone else has something to essentially work as the excuse for how

Except her you have to make the excuse up yourself first

[spare fox]

you both are just listing factually untrue statements and circling around using those statements as evidence that is contrary to what has been shown and told to exist

Reinhard has no connection to hard light or similar technology. But it's implied that since he has connection to engineers, his shield is hard light and that is considered a valid explanation for why his shield is tech and not magic, correct?

And also that this can be concluded because of the glowing effects of the shield?

[wise grotto]

Yes it’s implied via something he’s connected to
It’s also consistently the same look at other shields other then sym

Kiris effects
Are vastly unique
And have no context clues lore or visually

[spare fox]

hold on

I don't understand why the difference between Rein's shield and Sym's shield are acceptable but Kiriko's glowing assets are considered "vastly different"

explain

[sudden wolf]

i give up

it's just too braindead

[wise grotto]

What’s syms backstory again
And the company
And her hardlight construct creating arm

[spare fox]

Because you can't explain why glowing on ~44 of 45 characters' assets visually indicates technology, but why this one character's glowing assets specifically visually indicates "magic"?

[wise grotto]

Now give me that much context for kiri please

[spare fox]

no no, I am having YOU walk me through your logic. If your logic is true, then you should be able to answer my questions

your argument: Kiriko is magic because of a glowing fox and she has no connection to technology

[wise grotto]

We literally said why
Every other character has technology explained in lore or literally visible
Kiris ability to tp or her ult entirely don’t get this same treatment

[wise grotto]

No im saying she’s shitty writing in comparison to the rest of the cast entirely because of the fact there’s nothing giving even a smidge of a hint as to how these things happen

Like you know the entire rest of the cast which you seem to be ignoring that point

[sudden wolf]

you keep saying we are talking in circles because you are literally forcing us to talk in circles by not acknowledging the points that are being made

your questions have already been answered at least twice and you just keep asking them

[wise grotto]

It’s fine if it’s tech that’s not the issue
It’s that there’s literally no connection to anything to explain that like every other character gets

[spare fox]

I'm not going to concede to points that have been rebutted, multiple times

[wise grotto]

Your just refusing to listen to that part of the conversation

[sudden wolf]

here i answered it

[sudden wolf]

here i answered it

[sudden wolf]

here i answered it

[spare fox]

saying it's shitty writing is valid and subjective; but she's not automatically magic just because you said so

[sudden wolf]

oh my fucking god bruh

[wise grotto]

Ok you have to be purposely not reading my messages

I’m convinced

[wise grotto]

This message doesn’t exist

[peak escarp]

Kiriko's fox doesn't follow the same rules as other sources of hard light, so it's logical to conclude that it is not hard light

[sudden wolf]

i need to stop engaging with this but i just can't stop because the counterargument is just so bad

[spare fox]

fair, I did say "or similar/adjacent" - some kind of light-based tech

[wise grotto]

I have not said the word magic at all to explain her ability
I’m saying that she doesn’t get the same treatement for having some explanation to how she works like the rest of t he entire cast
She just works and that’s it and that when compared to the rest of the cast is lazier

[peak escarp]

also, she does other feats which have no technological explanation

[sudden wolf]

Yes but the fact that you have to make up explanations for it in the first place

Is the whole issue

It should just be explained or known

they don't have to explain how sojourn's technology works or how her weird little eye thing works because her design and lore does it for you

[peak escarp]

either Kiriko's powers are magic and the devs just weren't thinking, or they are tech and just haven't been explained

[sudden wolf]

even symmetra without the surrounding context of hardlight can be reasonably assumed because of her prosthetic, her arm, her visor, all the clues are there to put it together

[wise grotto]

Hell if they just expanded on the lore of her family and such it would fix this
I’m willing to accept shes tech but I’d rather some smidge of an explanation

[sudden wolf]

exactly this

[peak escarp]

and I don't mean explained as in a detailed breakdown, just "it comes from this" kinda explained, like Hanzo/Genji's weapons or Widowmaker's skin

[sudden wolf]

i can see how it is technology and i can fit it into the technology in universe myself but nothing that is canonically written about her does that and nothing in her design implies it either

[wise grotto]

It’s what makes kiri the weak point of character design and tech in the game
Cause they don’t even explain it

[spare fox]

this, and the latter is much more likely as it is, as stated, an ongoing narrative

[wise grotto]

They don’t give us anything to say “oh it comes from this”

[wise grotto]

Then why’s everyone else had some level of explanation from the get go except her

[sudden wolf]

this is something that should be base knowledge from the start

[wise grotto]

It’s still an inconsistency

It’s still just the issue people in and out of ow have with kiri

[sudden wolf]

we know how all the other characters work except for her and they've had 3 years to explain it

[peak escarp]

I agree that it's odd for her to be the exception

but if her powers were explained I don't think it would make people not hate her

people would still hate on her

[sudden wolf]

it's not like there's going to be some big twist that reveals she's actually symmetra's sister or something because the overwatch narrative is inherently tied to the characters and their designs themselves; you can tell she's linked to the shimadas (mostly hanzo) because they're all stereotypes based on design, and the shimadas and their dragons are and have been an ongoing blip in the "no magic" rule

[peak escarp]

it doesn't bother me, personally

[sudden wolf]

i think it is deserved really

just her attitude in game is super annoying

everything else removed

[peak escarp]

I do dislike her personality

so bratty

[spare fox]

I mean, people still say Widowmaker was brainwashed and BOB ripped off Cassidy's arm

[sudden wolf]

i wish they would've gone with the angle they were hitting in her cinematic short

[sudden wolf]

?

[peak escarp]

quite a few heroes have different personalities in game vs in lore

[sudden wolf]

very true hers is just for the worst

[wise grotto]

That doesn’t say much except some people don’t understand the lore yet

[peak escarp]

we barely see any of D.Va's real personality

[sudden wolf]

i don't really love jq's personality either

i kind of wish they would've taken the more sinister regal "this is below me" but still rambunctious approach rather than loud yelling australian if you get me

i like her but she's very one note in-game

[spare fox]

you know, the personalities and flaws of the younger heroes - old and new - really have a lot of space for character growth, too. That's good ongoing narrative design

[peak escarp]

they made her a herbo

[sudden wolf]

they literally did lmfaoooooo

[sudden wolf]

it would be good ongoing narrative if this was not a live service shooter game where the narrative is secondary

[peak escarp]

and as much as I enjoy the funny dumb muscle woman trope, she's smarter than that

[sudden wolf]

the characters don't develop (outside of the transition from ow1 to ow2, which likely won't happen again) and it's unlikely we will ever see kiriko develop as an individual

[spare fox]

the characters have developed, albeit slowly over the years, though

[peak escarp]

they did say they're taking a new approach to the lore

[sudden wolf]

they could come out with 15 comics that contextualize her character and make her go through a character development arc and she would still be the same annoying kiriko in-game

[spare fox]

Soldier, Reaper, Mercy, Ana, Rein - all have changed on some level over the years

[peak escarp]

still waiting for Hanzo's redemption arc

[sudden wolf]

probably my least favorite character assassination was moira

[spare fox]

he's working on it though! He's starting to allow himself back into the lives of those around him - as seen by having dinner with Asa and Kiri in the christmas comic

[sudden wolf]

omgggg

Moira went from conniving in ow1 to just comically evil in ow2

[spare fox]

possibly due to her own genetic experimentations on herself lol

[sudden wolf]

has nothing to do with that

it's her personality

[spare fox]

like the next digi evolution of moira is going to be some huge mutant

[wise grotto]

She’s on a time crunch now she gets worse
She’s literally decaying visually between games

[sudden wolf]

the voicelines she has with other characters have degraded in quality and they've kind of lost the plot with her

[spare fox]

it's both - it's the classic "outside changing to reflect the inside" trope

[peak escarp]

Cassidy in the lore is street smart and uses people's perception of him to his advantage... Cassidy in the game combat rolls into cactus and can't delete his browser history

[sudden wolf]

the centipede line she has with rein is so bad MY moira would never say that

[wise grotto]

She’s actively decaying and degrading and sos her mental state I’d imagine

[sudden wolf]

i mean more that like

her lines have become cheesier

it's not that she's degraded morally and become more evil

[peak escarp]

a lot of the writing has become cheesier

[sudden wolf]

she's just less foreboding more in your face Yeah bitch we evil

[sudden wolf]

hard agree

i would go back to 3 years no updates if we could have the same dialogue writers back from ow1

[peak escarp]

not saying the writers are bad, just saying I preferred OW1 writing

[spare fox]

the tone of the game has def become softer, can be seen in voicelines and interactions

[sudden wolf]

agree

[peak escarp]

it's funny to hear people say they want OW1 writers back considering how much hate Chu got during OW1

[sudden wolf]

i was never a hater

[spare fox]

I like Michael Chu

[sudden wolf]

aside from a few bad moments of dialogue which will happen in any game i was always happy with ow1 writing

[spare fox]

I wish he'd come back, now that they're allowing the story to continue finally

[sudden wolf]

widow, genji, and reaper in particular were weak points

[peak escarp]

mostly for his "common misconception" comment, but also for his "self insert Gency romance" that the community invented when they found out he was an Asian man married to a white woman

[sudden wolf]

LOOOLLLL

i didn't know that that's kind of hilarious

[peak escarp]

when asked, he said he was most like Mei and Moira, personality wise

[sudden wolf]

i am team pharmercy all the way but gency makes sense anyways idk why people have an issue with it

don't love the queerbaiting with pharmercy but it isn't like gency isn't reasonable

[spare fox]

tbf, as this fanbase is prone to do, A LOT of what he did say got twisted to holy hell. For instance in an interview, he was asked if Genji can use the bathroom still and his response was that nothing below the belt was damaged (which makes sense in a friggin swordfight to the death, they don't go for below the belt) - and everyone's reaction was GENJI FCKS

[peak escarp]

I don't see much canon support for pharmercy (it's mostly one sided with Fareeha crushing on Angela)

but OW1 had a LOT of flirty voice lines between Mercy and Genji, and it seemed like they were setting up that relationship until it stopped in OW2

[spare fox]

agreed, the only reason they were matched together was becase they were the only flying heroes... much like how lucio and dva were matched bc at the time they were the only ones similar in age and somehow the only "Acceptable straight ship" but then Brig was introduced and everyone became "mekamechanic" simply bc of their similar age

[wise grotto]

Honestly I think for the lore I like some of ow2s writing more cause when it does get dark
It gets very dark

Soj and the piles of bodies

[peak escarp]

and Cassidy/Hanzo because they were the only two youngish male heroes when OW1 launched

[spare fox]

the beginning of Sojo's novel... man

[wise grotto]

I also like them leaning into reins ptsd at times and also hazards backstory
Or vendettas

[peak escarp]

Junkrat was weird and people didn't want to ship Lucio for some reason

[spare fox]

because they shipped Junkrat w Roadhog... the ONLY acceptable age gap in the cast for some reason

[peak escarp]

ew

[spare fox]

this fandom has weird hang ups when it comes to age gaps for some reason

[wise grotto]

Mei junk I saw a bunch

[peak escarp]

half the community shipped them, half the community acted like Roadhog adopted Junkrat (and some did both)

[wise grotto]

Or Lucio junk

[spare fox]

and I mean "age gaps" like 5 years... but Junkrat Roadhog was the only one that didn't need to follow that rule

[wise grotto]

I prefer we’d the second one

Preferred the fuck did we’d come from

[peak escarp]

there's also a lot of people who thought Reyes adopted Cassidy...

[spare fox]

I mean saaaame. I love junkrat (as a character, I'm not weird) but like everytime I see a junkrat-themed fancontent it's so... guhhhhh I wish I'd never looked

[wise grotto]

Mind you when I was younger I was apart of the shipping stuff

Hate that shit nowadays

[spare fox]

for me, like most fan content, it can be done well or it can be cringe

[wise grotto]

but also shipping communities have gotten so much more extreme in the past few years

[peak escarp]

also tumblr is in denial about Cassidy being white

[wise grotto]

Tumblr is insane pay no mind to them

[spare fox]

noooooo they have DEF tamed tf down since 2015-2017 big time!!!

[spare fox]

bruh they're also in denial about Vendetta being white!! XD

[peak escarp]

...she's Italian...

[wise grotto]

I’ve had people trying to ship system members for us recently
Like literally 6 months ago no they’ve gotten worse

[peak escarp]

Italians are white... unless you're in America circa 1930s

[spare fox]

I've already seen discourse about how "they lightened her" from some concept or another like... people don't understand how lighting a 3D model works

[peak escarp]

people get too obsessed with skintone

[spare fox]

I was talking about OW specifically

[spare fox]

they do and it's bizarre

[peak escarp]

any time a spray gets released with the skin hexcode of by one digit, the internet riots

or the Anti Hero Reaper skin where he has literal white skin... because it's a reference to black and white film noir

[spare fox]

it's never a mistake, they're always trying to "erase a POC's race"

also Reaper IS white, just bc he's hispanic doesn't mean he's not white

[peak escarp]

Reyes is not as dark skinned as people think

yeah

[spare fox]

there are White Mexicans... Mexicans of every race, really. Many of them are of European decent seeing as how Spain is European. People can't get this through their heads for some reason and equate speaking Spanish to "brown" skin

Anya Taylor Joy is Hispanic XD

[peak escarp]

it does vary with lighting, but he's fairly light skinned

and definitely not afro-latino like some people draw him

[wise grotto]

The one that made sense was people mad about the sym spray

Cause that shit was like
Freja or soldiers skin tone

The junkersym skin

The spray it got was realllly badly done for the shade

[peak escarp]

Cassidy can be explained too... the artists painted shadows on his face that made him look darker

his OW2 skin doesn't have that problem

[spare fox]

oh riiiiight the outrage when his ow2 model was introduced accusing them of "white washing".... a white character

[peak escarp]

he looked pretty white in the comics and Reunion, but I guess those artists were wrong too

[spare fox]

daaamn I can't find it but there was a tweet from this morning that was a "friendly reminder not to whitewash Vendetta" good lord

it must have been deleted

[peak escarp]

oof

it's especially cringe when you know that Italian (and Irish) immigrants were not considered white in early 20th century America so that employers and landlords could discriminate against them

exclude them from taking jobs and houses from "real whites"

it was nasty

[spare fox]

well now they're using the opposite reasoning so that they can claim they're not stanning a white character lol

[peak escarp]

because all whites are evil 🙄

anyway

the fandom side of the community has some interesting interpretations of the characters

[wise grotto]

How dare they whitewash Moira

[neat forum]

where should I look to find meis lore on like connections with Juno, doctor stuff etc?

[peak escarp]

Mei has been featured in one animated short about waking up after being frozen for 9 years, and has a minor part in one short story about Juno going to ask Lucheng Interstellar for help for her family
https://youtu.be/8tjcm_kI0n0
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/signs-of-life/

she's also in Zero Hour, where she saves some civilians, gets injured, then gets "resurrected" by Mercy

[spare fox]

she was at university with Jiayi, Juno's mother, and she and Jiayi are best/good friends, so Juno calls her auntie

[keen summit]

We had the opposite in ows where someone went "blizzard really thinks italiabs arent white" yeah, lots are tan

[peak escarp]

the Mediterranean is a sunny climate, of course they can be tan

[keen summit]

Yeah no shit

So i asked if theyve ever been to italy or any country in those parts

The answer was no

[neat forum]

Oh I see

Ty

[wise grotto]

Man who would have thunk the person who fights in a gladiator arena in the sun for a living ended up tan situation

[velvet stirrup]

im pretty sure theres a region in italy where the italians there are brown but my friend who is an expert on italians is sadly asleep right now

[wise grotto]

Yea but she’s like slightly tan and her fathers Antonio

By literally everything about her she’s just tanned by the su

Sun

[dusk granite]

today i just noticed the top of roadhog's head isn't the actual top of his head, its some fabric on top with his mohawk the space that comes out

which makes me think, what do yall think roadhog's hair actually looks like

[dusk granite]

(best viewed in the say cheese highlight intro)

[dusk granite]

obviously he has long hair but be more broad

[past copper]

Someone on Reddit made a dope Winter Wonderland skin for Hazard

Ngl, that's actually a great idea for him

The artists and devs at Blizzard gotta take notes, bc if they don't give Hazard SOMETHING with icicles for Winter, it's wasted potential

[loud marsh]

I love that

[past copper]

I do wonder if Pharah or Illari will get actual unique Winter skins and not recolors

Although, the recolor pajamas Illari got are actually better than the original color palette

[azure flint]

too good for blizzard

[floral chasm]

you know i change my mind reaper should change not her he has no real reason to be doin allat

[dark mica]

W skin

[sullen pasture]

W

[spare fox]

Missed opportunity to call it Winter Phreaze

[merry mason]

So Is her real name Vendetta

Like that’s what Tony wrote on her birth certificate

[spare fox]

Hasn't been revealed yet

[merry mason]

I feel like they would have mentioned it in the behind the scenes article

[charred pond]

@wooden osprey is the new character

[spare fox]

If her given name is important, they might be saving it for whatever the next media entry is (the remaining "coming soon" in the story tab), or if her given name is unimportant then we'll just have to wait until the official bio is posted

[digital linden]

the coming soon tab is probably gonna be the comic considering previous heroes

[vast swift]

does
´¾½°°²
appear anywhere in ow

[vast swift]

ow2: the movie cartoon

[bronze shard]

https://tenor.com/view/jk-jungkook-bts-gif-2059799069953922960

[leaden swallow]

Does anyone know up to date videos that explain all the ow lore? Or someone who has a playlist. Something that explains the whole lore it doesn’t really matter what

[azure flint]

watch hammehs vid

[spare fox]

there's a comprehensive list in the pins on this channel, and there's "The Story So Far" video that's in the story tab on the game and on Play Overwatch's yt

[frigid glade]

Hey i was diamond im the ps5 and now i switched to pc
so when i start my placement first game was B5 ............
is that a normal thing ?

[leaden swallow]

Ok ty

[fleet scaffold]

Here's a question, does anyone feel like the line of new characters we've seen recently are... too perfect lore wise?

Like, alot of these newer characters, are not really complicated or complex. Wuyang is an below average student with an above average sense of justice. The game is missing characters with a lot more strictness to their Ego.

You might say "Dva's pretty egotistic" but thats only Dva in game. In lore though, she's portrayed as being someone who's just trying to do the right thing.

I guess I'm saying, we need more characters like Rammatra, and maybe even Freya.

Characters who have a sense of self that isn't compromised to be "super good" or "super bad".

[keen summit]

i think the reason is that we've had alot of pretty young heroes lately

hazard for example knows damn well what hes about, but that wuyang and juno dont really know makes sense, theyre young

[livid tangle]

Does the vendetta gameplay trailer count as lore?

[meager geyser]

Counterpoint: Mauga

[grand wedge]

Yes

[livid tangle]

Like completely tied into the lore? If so does that mean she is the new queen of junkertown or am I just looking too deep into it

[twilit patrol]

Nah

Odessa Stone is still the queen of Junkertown

I guess this part is just for the trailer or maybe a game mode event for s20

[loud marsh]

Did you watch the trailer?

She isn't in Australia

She's in Italy

[twilit patrol]

She’s fighting Junker Queen at the end of the gameplay trailer in New Junk City that’s why they’re asking

[loud marsh]

Don't they often brawl

Wrecking ball is the champion

[twilit patrol]

Just to tell that this part is not canon

[loud marsh]

Their title fights for the throne are different

[livid tangle]

Alright thanks for clearing things up

[twilit patrol]

Ur welcome

[obtuse yarrow]

Yo did reaper murk hero 45 parents

[azure flint]

no

[azure flint]

yes her dad

[obtuse yarrow]

why did he do that

[digital linden]

he was a target for a blackwatch mission as he was one of the leading members of talon at the time, and meant to be just kidnapped and imprisoned, but reaper killed him instead

[true obsidian]

Does anyone know the lore to Symmetra's biotic arm? Her Vishkar/Architect skins show her wielding hard light with a special glove and the prototype of her photon projector.

[median orchid]

Have you guys noticed that Winstons computer terminal on Watchpoint Giblartar (The map) has changed? It now has the In-World Sojourn "Loredump" Article on it.

Its not much but its a cool detail none the less. Propably just a little nudge from the devs to make the players check the story section.

[wise grotto]

all vishkar architects have the arms itswhat shows them as true architects

[azure flint]

new meka lore

next hero after vendetta is another meka tank

[wise grotto]

Unless they just have the new one die with the mech I don’t think so

Cause dva is pretty awful to code which is why they said they wouodnt do another

[twilit patrol]

They’re cooking

[keen summit]

Next hero might be from meka

[peak escarp]

probably not

[grand wedge]

Next one is probably from Helix

[peak escarp]

both because they're a pain to code, and because Team 4 said they had no plans for any more MEKA heroes

[grand wedge]

when was the last time they said that?

[peak escarp]

Emre will probably be one of next year's heroes

[grand wedge]

because, obviously, their plan shifted since the PVE cancellation

[keen summit]

They said at the moment which was before lw, but that theyd love to make a mew one, they could just make em not eject like ball has

Thatd not be a pain to code

[peak escarp]

it would be weird to play

[keen summit]

I dont disagree on that, i think the bigger issue is how do you make it FEEL different enough

And not just
Dmon: DVa but with a shield and sword
Casino: fast dva
Etc

[peak escarp]

they could have just the pilot and use the mech as the ult

[keen summit]

Then it returns to being a pain to code

[peak escarp]

only as much as Bob is

[buoyant elk]

Whats the lore behind orisa..

@rough gulch

[rough gulch]

I dont know btw

[buoyant elk]

We need back that guy

Whats his name

[rough gulch]

That guy was like an encyclopedia

[buoyant elk]

https://tenor.com/view/tommy-boy-chris-farley-stressed-upset-hair-pull-gif-16115894944211205747

Isnt it

[rough gulch]

Embed fail...

[peak escarp]

https://youtu.be/Lvm0of3iDUU

[velvet stirrup]

Puppet character where you control the guy and the mech separately at the same time

[keen summit]

Short ver
Doom took back gauntlet, attacked numbani airport, or15's got destroyed
Genius kid efi took them, turned them into orisa, specifically built to counter doom

[loud marsh]

When did this come out?

[grand wedge]

probably mid season

[obsidian pulsar]

the news stories changed

[peak escarp]

news stories?

[hard pumice]

Wanna see one of the worst video evee

Wring chat

[azure flint]

vendetta storytime tomorrow surely

[fleet scaffold]

Just thinking about Illari lore--- do we know how much power she outputted during her ceremonial accident?

Curious if thats her upper limit of power or just how much power generated when out of control.

[hearty aspen]

is there ACTUALLY no magic in overwatch lore? how the hell can reaper turn into a shadowy husk thing if theres no magic

[vivid cobalt]

moira experiments i think

[hearty aspen]

sure sure but would that not... stilll kind of be magical?

i dont think any amount of experimentation could make it possible for a human being to turn into

whatever reaper turns into but

overwatch IS much more advanced

[elfin bane]

yea that’s the explanation for it

it’s just advanced genetic stuff

i mean tracer can time travel but no one asks if that’s magic

[median orchid]

Tracers condition "Chronal disasociation" is science-fiction but not magic. Im not going to pretend i know anything about Time™️but im pretty sure it COULD be possible in the far- far- far future.

[peak escarp]

but Overwatch isn't set in the far-far-far future

it's like 50 years from now

both Tracer's and Reaper's conditions are explained by sci-fi

they're tech-based, but the tech doesn't have to abide by real world rules

like Widowmaker for example - the explanation behind her skin being blue is that Moira genetically modified her to slow her heartbeat, making her a better sniper and turning her blue

except slowing someone's heartbeat wouldn't actually make them a better sniper, it would make them lethargic and prone to fainting

and it wouldn't turn them blue

[marble charm]

Yea sci-fi is inherently 'magical'

It's just the source of the "magic" is technology

Whereas in another series the source is mana or whatever the series wants to use

I think reapers whole thing is meant to be akin to Deadpools content regeneration

His cells are actively killing and regenerating themselves

And it allows him to turn into a smokey shadow thing because that's the physical byproduct of whatever science genetics are causing the death/regeneration

[keen summit]

Yeah, its basically that the idea is of "explained by tech" vs "explained by magoc"

[keen summit]

As said by others, the difference lies in one is explained by magic or spirits, while the other is explained with often psuedo science, basically it sets rules of what it does and then makes it around that. Reaper is basically in limbo between decaying and regenerating. So he can choose to "decay" more and basically become dust, rotted dust, and the regenerate to become one once more

[meager geyser]

Kiriko is right there and you're concerned about Moira's genetical experiments 😭

[meager geyser]

Tbh I don't think even the writing team knows when does Overwatch take place. At first it was suppoused to be in like 2040s, but the further they went the more far future, science-FICTION stuff, they have added

[marble charm]

Well its set in the 70s

2070s

[meager geyser]

I get that it is not a hard sci-fi, but I think that just casualy adding something fantasy/magical to the lore and say "Nahh, bro it's just super advanced technology, but we are not going to explain how it works" is kinda lame ngl.

[marble charm]

Well yea I think most people agree

You do also have to keep in mind game mechanics vs canon lore with say mercy for example

Where she cant actually revive someone, but is actually doing something more akin to the flash heal perk

I haven't watched the kiriko animatic so I cant say for certain if cleanse is used in it at all but I think that could be chalked up to home remedy cough medicine

The kitsune is very vaguely attributed to the shimada dragons but neither of them have great explanations

[keen summit]

Most have reasonable in their logic explanations, they set rules up as to how it works n all

[keen summit]

Shimada dragons are tech, its confirmed

And cuz in the same thing they didnt confirm kiriko fox and again attributed it to spirits, its just spirit magic

Kiriko factually uses spirit magic

[meager geyser]

The diffrence is that, they never said what Shimada dragons actually are (people have speculated that it might be hard light or something), but the writers just strieght up said that Kirko uses magic and in her hero story she heels with glowing papers and teleports

[keen summit]

Honestly though you could just act like kiriko doesnt exist and nothing in lore changes, she was forced into the shimadas story, was never mentioned by them, is the only hero with outright magic and the timeline doesn't work either

[keen summit]

At first i thought perhaps it could be hardlight, afterall hardlight somehow can teleport and can take evidently many colours

But no, just spirits

She doesnt have the rule of projector either

Vendettas hardligh blade is also odd cuz its stylised like flames

[median orchid]

Hardlight would be a good explanation for the kitsune rush / spirit foxes. Why the development team decided not to use them or any other explanations? Don't know, i think they really just needed a new charecter and asked one of the Warcraft designers for ideas.

I'd have to guess that spirit foxes were deemed to be cuter and more marketable than some fabricated hardlight ones...

Only other explanation i can think of that all the people that see the foxes just hallucinate lol.

[meager geyser]

Kiriko uses halucination gass like the Scarecrow from DC 😭

[median orchid]

The team forgot to take meds

[keen summit]

it feels as if they went "lets add a shonen self insert mc for popularity" and didnt think of anything else

[median orchid]

0/10, Game unplayable. Blizzard, PLZ fix.

But honestly they should rewrite her while they still can. I saw proposals of a hacker kiriko somewhere here which sounded a lot cooler than ... Magic foxes

Besides I think we should get a "Heroic" / Neutral Hacker charecter as a Reflection of Sombra. Just like Mercy And Moira.

[meager geyser]

Call me a conspirancy theorist, but I feel like a concept for Kirko was not made by the Overwatch team, but for example activison or other investors.
"-Go make me a japanese waifu that will get all collab skins and has a cute, matketable, magic fox!
-But sir, there is no magic on overwa-
-Once you're done go make collab skins for 20 dollars each!"

[loud marsh]

I mean, Illari is also magic like

Being born being able to harness the power of the sun and cause solar explosions, is sort of odd

And fly

The iris is also questionable. How Zen is able to float or how his orbs work is still a mystery

The voice line with mercy hints at it being neither science or magic

[median orchid]

Im pretty sure the sun power she uses comes from tech that was developed by her group (Forgot their name) That developed technology to harness the power of the sun.

You can see her materialize the "Sun power" from a hole from her palms. Kinda like Wuyang.

[loud marsh]

But she said she was born extra powerful, or something along those lines, in the trailer

If it was a tech defect it wouldn't have been related to her as much

[median orchid]

Maybe thats what she tells herself to cope with a potential tech defect that caused her to atomize her group. I dont know but i dont buy her being magical

But dont know. She was launched at a similar time to Kiriko

Maybe they snuck some Magic BS to her too, but I believe all the sun stuff is just really really advanced technology

[loud marsh]

Would be a little fucked up if they augment kids so young

Wasn't she 19 in the current story

[median orchid]

Yep

[loud marsh]

Meaning her training and technical enhancements started in teens

At latest

[median orchid]

I wouldn't be supprised if they augmented her young. The world was dangerous. Especially since im pretty sure They were on Talons radar

[loud marsh]

Sure the world is in shambles but cyberenhancements on children is another thing

Unless, they're born with that power

[median orchid]

Yeah I don't think one is born with the power of the sun (Which is epic NGL)

Maybe she was naturally highly proficient in handling and channeling the sun technology?

[loud marsh]

Not sure

[meager geyser]

I think they not only should do it, but also have the perfect time to do it.
This year Overwatch is on a "redemption arc" if you know what I mean. Recently they started retconing and pushing the story and lore forward.
It would be the perfect time to do something with the character that so many people (especialy in the lore) community hate.
And this might a bit of a hot take, but I think they should make changes her story directly. Upload a developer update and say:
"Hey guys! We know that a lot of you are unhappy with they way Kirko works in game and lore, so we gave her a small rework and completly rewrite her story. We hope you will enjoy it!"

But that's just my opinion

[median orchid]

Couldn't agree any more. Its now or never ... They "only" have like ... 30? Skins to redesign if they were to change her style and lore and tech to make any sense ...

Wonder what kind of arc they would give her.

Would she be "Disgraced by the Shimada clan after she rejects their criminal undertones?"

Or would she be a persuaded Spy working for any other faction, I:E Overwatch or Helix?

[meager geyser]

Ilarii is such a strange charcter to me.
They mantioned her once, even gave her a map, some skins and then never mention her existance. I don't even see that meny players pick her in matches tbh.
She kinda suffers from beeing one of those "one off" characters I like to call them.
She dosen't know any other character. She isn't part of any organisation. She haven't taken part in any major Overwatch lore event and overral she's just... THERE.
She could be in any other sci-fi universe, no reason why she is in Overwatch.

[digital linden]

she knows soldier and sombra

[keen summit]

We dont know if theyre born with it or if their special tech they have allow it

[keen summit]

18 according to site

They mightve meant that her tenacity or strength of will etc was better naturally instead of her powrrs

[keen summit]

She used to be completely unconnected too

[keen summit]

Sombra is unsure if shes met her in lore

She has a voiceline but those are semi canon

[marble crest]

Vendetta didnt go to wolf college?

[hearty aspen]

i mean i dont exclude kiriko from this, i shouldve used her as an example considering she teleports in her cinematic 🥹✌️

[peak escarp]

Illari was trained to use the weapons and tech of the Inti Warriors from a young age, but she didn't receive her augmentations until she was 18 - it's unknown why she went supernova

they aren't born with it

maybe she had an inherent potential that was unlocked during the solar threading, maybe the tech was sabotaged, maybe someone made a mistake that lead to disaster

[marble crest]

Illiari would have the highest kill count in lore right?

She blew a whole city for funsies

[peak escarp]

we don't know how many people she killed

but it wasn't the whole city, just the warriors

[marble crest]

A warrior tribe would have a lot of warriors

[peak escarp]

true, but it would also have a lot of non-warriors who supported them

farmers and merchants, etc.

[sudden wolf]

omg that was my suggestion

[fossil wren]

Ramattra

Although it would be more indirect

Reaper is also a good candidate

Most of Talon/Ex-Blackwatch members (Genji, Cass) probably have many kills

[cyan wedge]

Yeah, can't forget hanzo (The Shimada clan) or ashe's gang

But i think the deadlock gang are lower on the kill count scale

As they showed restraint, even against mcree who stabbed them in the back

[novel robin]

do you really need permission?

[celest silo]

Illari didn't kill many people, she's the last of the Inti Warriors because she uhh, blew up and killed them, but the city of Runasapi shows zero damage, I'd probably put her killcount around 100. You can actually see a bunch of them in the chamber itself during her story trailer thing, with the oens out of sight it's around 100 in that chamber, maybe even 200 if you're being generous, and since every warrior has to turn up to the ceremonies, it's a good estimate as the chamber doesn't look too big.

If anything I'd say Doomfist is responsible for the most deaths, he went from a recruit to leader of Talon, and as its leader he's directly responsible for every person killed as a result of Talons actions, from overthrowing governments and placing puppets in its place, or from selling weapons to terrorists and then having Talon hired as a mercenary group to take them out

Moira doesn't really kill her test subjects, just tortures them with various experiments, like with Reaper and Widowmaker, she loses so much data if the guinea pig dies

Reapers not in the business of random murders, he's got some whacky sense of morality and kills people he deems worth killing, but that doesn't get you a lot of kills.

Widowmakers an assassin and is sent out for high value targets, so she's probably got one of the lower killcounts

If anything, for direct kills I'd probably say Mauga and Baptiste, they slaughtered an entire town, and while we're not sure how much Baptiste killed during that as he left Talon while it transpired, Mauga really enjoyed it and found it fun.

Mauga just really enjoys a bit of murder, so any Talon mission he went on, security details, civillians and anyone else unlucky enough to be in his way got half a tonne of lead as a parting gift

Shamada clan on the other hand doesn't get to kill whole towns at once, and the Deadlock gang are smallscale crime, although B.O.B probably slaughtered hundreds in the Omnic Crisis? Same with Rammatra, so it's got to be between Rammatra, B.O.B and Mauga imo

[marble charm]

They're crooks even if they have a fair few kills its mostly against things like security guards and won't amount to a larger scale

They were also in prison for awhile

I imagine like 18y/o deadlock gang wasn't doing major killings before Cass was recruited

And the rest where locked up

[wise grotto]

Ramm has a body count due to his invasion having killed a decent amount of people

[peak escarp]

there was no Deadlock gang before Cassidy was recruited, he and Ashe (and a few others) founded it as teenagers

[marble charm]

Ah my bad

[torpid anvil]

What do we think Vendetta’s deal is? What could she be fighting for?

[azure flint]

to avenge her dads death idk

[meager geyser]

Rammatra is bascily a war criminal

Especialy if we count Omnic population

96% of omics have gone "missing" after the second crises

But it's implied that they're dead

[median orchid]

I presume the "Missing" Omnics to be captured and Subjugated omnics, not necesarily dead, more like stuck in a admninistered coma.

Similar to the ones seen in the PVE story but well, held in some sort of facility to be released later once Ramattra gets his way from the world.

[weary quarry]

So the Vendetta vid shows that Antonio was really blammed in the head

Ive seen people say that he might have survived, but yeah, not really

[worthy rose]

The lore being wie pinging and getting jumped

[digital linden]

there’s no way he got that many of them???

if he did that’s scary

[spare fox]

there's always been speculation that Antonio survived, but yeah he dead

[wise grotto]

We can also just count the normal people who where slaughtered in the cities that did take major damage
Seeing as we have confirmation that Toronto was hit VERY badly in that regard from one of the stories
It’s safe to assume that aside from the city sym protected there was a significant amount of human causality’s as well

[meager geyser]

Yeah, this whole discussion about who has the highest kill count is like:
-Baptist may had killed some people people, when he was in talon.
-But Illarii nuked one room?
While Rammatra razed multiple cites to the ground

[wise grotto]

He didn’t raze them to the ground that is an over exaggeration

But he did kill a LOT of people

[azure flint]

vendetta storytime in 20 mins guys

surely

[spare fox]

I think they're going to save it for Sunday... maybe

hopefully I'm wrong

[fallow mantle]

Her hero select voiceline is so cool

Lmao she says Veni, Vidi, Vici! good

[meager geyser]

I love Italian so much

Such a cool language to hear

I should learn it one day

[cyan wedge]

Vengeance

[calm star]

is freja js

racist?

towards omnics

[west sky]

Can winton level a skyscraper?

[half robin]

Yep

[azure flint]

yes

[wise grotto]

fuckoff again

[marble crest]

Is Saudi Arabia a queer friendly place in lore?

I wanna ask that at the next Blizz con to see what happens

[wise grotto]

there isnt any of that kinda thing involved in lore period

[silent rose]

To all the people saying ‘yes’… doesn’t she literally get her bounties assigned to her for her to hunt… FROM AN OMNIC?

[keen summit]

we dont know. its implied all sexualities are accepted everywhere in ow

[vapid canopy]

Doesn't mean she likes them

[peak escarp]

if she hated them she wouldn't take jobs from them

she could just be neutral on them

[meager geyser]

I think there is a (not canon) in game dialogue where she asks Rammatra if he fights for all omnics and he's like"Yeah, for all of my people". Then she asks if that includes Maximilian and Rammatra says: "Nahh, I hate that guy. He is a laying, power hungry ignorant who only cares about money! He is not one of my people!"

She never officially said, she hates omnics, but that's what they are hinting at

Also, almost everyone in Oweratch universe hates Omnics

[peak escarp]

that's not even remotely true

many places in the OW universe treat omnics equally

I think anti-omnics are minority

[elfin bane]

can someone refresh me why talon wanted mandotta dead

[hearty aspen]

we probably wont ever know something like this since we don't really dwell on characters sexual orientations or their gender identities unless its somebody like venture where its kiiinddaa important or somebody like soldier 76 where it ties into his lore but not really in the most important way ever

could ask it at blizzcon but i doubt youd get a straight answer

[wise grotto]

Mondatta was killed to try and keep the conflicts going

[silent rose]

I believe it basically boils down to this.

Mondatta wanted and preached for peace, and was drawing a lot of people to his cause. Talon didn’t want the world to get behind the idea of peace, so they assassinated him

[wise grotto]

So what I said but more complicated and also skips out on the fact that mondattas death would spark more things to happen because of how big it is

[meager geyser]

Talon is such a cartoonishly evil organisation for how big and important to the lore they are, especially at the start. Later they added the whole "Humanity needs a conflict to progress!" thing, tho that's mainly Doomfist's motivation.

I hope they do something interesting with them, especially, that they have retconed the sector zero out of the main plot and talon is back at being the main antagonists.

[silent rose]

It is a bit odd to me that Talon’s whole goal behind being evil is just starting shit, y’know?

[meager geyser]

They're a terrorist organisation, that does evil stuff for the love of the game

Which is fine. Not every villan needs to have some super deep complex motivations, but do you really want this to be main antagonists in your story?

They're essentially just: "Evil overwatch"

[sullen fractal]

How many ''Wolfs'' are there within the OW world? Vendetta is called la Lupa ''wolf''. Then there was a character from Freja's reveal trailer that showed off an character named Sahil Bhediya, who is also called ''The Wolf''.

[digital linden]

the way vendetta speaks in game makes it sound like she’s a commander of something

[sullen fractal]

I think she is trying to get her criminal organisation started by walking in her father’s foot steps.

[wise grotto]

She’s trying to take back what he had

Not mimic him but take what to her is rightfully there families

[sullen fractal]

She did say she is not going to make the same mistake as her father though.

[wise grotto]

Well yea but that’s cause he had the people he surrounded himself with that leeched off him and then took everything he had when he died and split it up between them

[lost slate]

I'm new to OW but just wanted to say how much I adore the lore and game, happy to be here <3

[drifting hinge]

Dm to scrim 5v5

[buoyant elk]

@rough gulch

Can we scrim 4v4

[peak escarp]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[drifting hinge]

Dm to scrim 5v5

[azure flint]

syfm

[heady cloak]

the energy is about to shift

[obtuse yarrow]

bro what happened to doom

[ruby ridge]

Comic tevealed

Is it time to accept the Doomfist leaks

New Upcoming #Overwach2 Comic: A New Empire 🏟️

Blizzard is giving out physical copies of a new Vendetta comic at @DreamHack Stockholm, exploring Marzia’s vendetta against Talon as she sets her sights on Doomfist’s position.

They are yet to release the comic digitally 📚

comic spoilers btw

||Her actual name is Marzia, Vendetta is just the stage name she uses in the colosseum.

She was a young adult when her father died.

She wanted to be part of his business but he wanted a ”different life” for her. But she took part of a meeting between him and Doomfist so not very successful there. ”Akande! You’ve met my little Marzia.”

She has major beef with Talon. After her fathers death Talon seized everything, his accounts, his assets and his allies. And then Doomfist gave away ”My rightful” council position to someone else. The book doesn’t specify if she was the heir to her fathers business or if she just saw herself as heir. ”My father, my future. They took everything I was promised. Everything I DESERVED.”

From nothing she used the colosseum to rise and earn a reputation of her own and influence. She gained her own allies, assets and network. She manage to infiltrate Europe’s elite because ”Proximity to the colosseo’s most infamous gladiator was very valuable.” In what I’m guessing is the colosseo vip section she crosses paths with an unnamed talon council member. He helps finance her next match in exchange for her to put in a good word with her other sponsors.

When Doomfist was arrested she decides to attack the Talon base it Venice. This failed. Years pass Talons power wanes and hers grows.

Until the present arrives. Doomfist has escaped confinement and reclaimed his position as head of Talon. She sees this as her moment. No more wasting her rage on meaningless opponents. It is time to strike back at her true enemies. She sets up a meeting with the unnamed talon council member. And kills him to send a message to Talon. ”You thought your fight with me was over but this war is JUST beginning.”

This comic makes it absolutely clear that Vendetta is a villain, driven by her rage and ambition. ||

Taken from Reddit but the person has the comic

[keen summit]

ah so yeah probs someone misunderstood the story

[fallow mantle]

That picture of her from the comic 🔥

She is so cool

[calm star]

it was a rhetorical question i KNOW shes racist.. its js crazy to me shes like insanely racist towards omnics LOL

[cyan wedge]

Oh damn thats so dope and cool

Now we kinda have like 4-5 factions dynamic

Talon, Overwatch, UN, Vendetta's Faction and Omnics

All fighting for their own vision of freedom, purpose and sacrifice

Overwatch, you never let us down with your incomprehensible writing and cinematics. It is in a unique tier which many fail to attain.

We still need to see this fella soon

https://tenor.com/view/sokka-haiku-avatar-the-last-airbender-atla-gif-4314961850946427044

Lmao

[wise grotto]

Omnics are a race not a faction

Nullsector is rammattras terrorist organization

[cyan wedge]

I meant like the Ramattra faction

Yeah

[wise grotto]

Yea but saying omnics is a whole different thing

[cyan wedge]

But omnics are also united in a sense, its not just null sector

[wise grotto]

Plus there’s more then just that for factions

[cyan wedge]

Yeah ofc

[wise grotto]

You’ve got
The faction ventures in
Illari
The group soldiers hunting
Deadlock
Vishkar (one of the big groups)
Oasis scientists (partly owned by talon controlled by Moira)
I’m pretty sure there’s more

[cyan wedge]

Yeah loads

But we have 5 massive faction who are playing on the larger scale that impacts one another or individuals one way or another. Can be said the same for all of the other groups.

[marble charm]

Phreaks

Uh Pharahs security company exists too

[peak escarp]

Helix Security International

there's a lot of factions

[cyan wedge]

Damn, so many

Legit why Overwatch is peak

[fallow mantle]

Lest we forget.... The Space Chimps ....

[short bone]

is it true that roadhog is dating mercy

[steady glacier]

yes

[gloomy rose]

between the recent sojourn…thing, and the lore for vendetta, i’m cautiously optimistic that blizz hasn’t forgotten about the story

i’m gonna be really disappointed if we don’t get anymore cinematics though. what was the last proper cinematic? kiriko JQ and soj at launch??

[peak escarp]

no

depends what you count as "proper" cinematics

the last Blizzard animated one was Calling in 2023

but we got outsourced animations with the last 4 heroes

Blizzard definitely hasn't forgotten about the story - they've been adding to it with every new hero

[queen grove]

robot

[azure flint]

and its gonna ramp up again next season

or in 2026 for that matter

[gloomy rose]

when I say cinematics I mean the nice, visually appealing 3d stuff like zero hour and honor and glory

[peak escarp]

then 2023 was the last one

although I found the other ones visually appealing

[gloomy rose]

I mean they’re fine but when you compare them to the actual fully rendered 3D cinematics it’s not even close

[quartz rampart]

Anyone know when the vendetta comic releases

[spare fox]

Jude Stacey is presenting 7pm Stockholm time but no news that I've heard about the online comic release

[sturdy sierra]

Vendetta has sworn retribution against those who killed her father; Reaper / Gabriel Reyes actually killed him, but as they were part of Blackwatch, and present when it happened, what's going to happen to Genji & Mccree/Cassidy?

[wise grotto]

Genji cass and Moira are probably eventuallt gonna be made to but right now her target is talon itself

[sturdy sierra]

Ah ok

Because based on her hero trailer, it sounds as though Vendetta is going to consider Cass & Genji guilty/implicit by association

[latent lark]

my two predictions are hes either

A) located in Havanna since Sojourn has a line on the map where she mentions he's always wanted to retire there, also explains why Max wants him because theres a now opperative Talon Base there he might be messing with

B) seen alot of theories hes the new Helix lieutenant thats been put in charge of the Watchpoint Grand Mesa, meaning he will encounter both Freja and Ashe

[cyan wedge]

I think the second might be more plausible as well as he is a Ex-Overwatch member and I doubt he would have resorted to joining talon after the end of the Omnic crisis and would also make sense why he has a hit on his head for being a high value personnel.

However it would make even more sense if he was in talon and having gotten on the wrong path (or went back to his past), and killed people which in turn got Freja hired to kill him. Idk about ashe crossing paths with him.

[neon basin]

technically the le sserafim collab was the last ow cinematic

[gloomy rose]

oh right

[neon basin]

if that even counts

[gloomy rose]

i forgot about that

i count it

[latent lark]

oh I wasnt implyng he joined Talon I was implying hes been a thorn in the side of the Talon opperatives there

he was too good natured to join Talon imo

he left overwatch because they had no longer really kept their promise of keeping people safe

[solid pagoda]

guys where is vendetta from and why she talks in spanish sometimes

[peak escarp]

why would Max need help finding him if he was part of Talon?

[peak escarp]

she's from Italy and she speaks Italian

[gloomy rose]

“vendetta” itself is an italian word in case you didn’t know that

[fleet scaffold]

Warning: Ramattra glaze and yap post

I really think Ramattra is an interesting villain in that his intent is not purely born of evil. Only that as a consequence of his actions, they appear as evil to the general public and the greater world.

He feels like the only villain introduced by OW2 as someone driven by more than just a simple desire for power or wealth, which so many other characters seem to be motivated by. He only seeks to free his omnic brothers and sisters from the threat of humanity itself. Huamnity in his eyes, is self destructive and corrupt. A race that will eventually destroy themselves and leave nothing in their wake. A tale as old as time, the created recognizing the folly of their creators.

He turns to Aurora's example, where she ascended beyond her mortal coil and freed omnics from slavery to humanity's whims. He wishes to do the same, a savior, to protect his own from the suffering his people have suffered. There is a beauty in his mission, as long as a deep pain. While we as players can understand why he does what he does, we cannot condone that in seeking to free his race from humanity, he has stripped his people of the same thing which lead to this to begin with.

The right to choose.

Choice, is what led to the omnic awakening, and yet Ramattra fails to see that his subjugation devices are not a freedom. Merely taking away the need to suffer, does not erase the pain that exists, and comes with such a measure. My estimate, is that Ramattra is trying to store his people in some sort of collective consciousness. A consciousness that will unite and exist past the history of the human race. Sort of like, a hivemind.

While this stops the individual from suffering, it also stops them from being who they are. Their individual selves. Ramattra cannot see past his own anger and rage. He'd rather burn down the whole world, and start it anew with his own omnic race, than to let humanity exist as they do now. I would not be surprised if saving his people came at the cost of scorching the Earth.

Blinded by his own ambition, no doubt, will become his own downfall. Like Icarus, flying too close to the sun, there is a consequence in seeking your goals with such futility.

And thats what I love about him. He rages against the machine as it were, not realizing he has, and always was, still part of that very machine he seeks to destroy.

END

[peak escarp]

his goal is noble, his methods....

[fleet scaffold]

Not so much.

[peak escarp]

yeah

Aurora would weep

[cyan wedge]

Irony on the ‘born’ line

😭

[cyan wedge]

Questionable…

But it does bring the concept of value of life, he sees how humanity treats one another as well as his own kind. He isn’t doing any different from humanity in terms of treating every life as ‘sacred’.

‘I WILL SPEAK TO YOU IN A LANGUAGE YOU UNDERSTAND, VIOLENCE!’

[cyan wedge]

Ohh i miss read that, he is dope.

[cyan wedge]

True.

[fleet scaffold]

He doesn't see all life as equal, and because of that, he becomes stuck in the same twisted cycle that gave birth to his existence. The place of value between which life is greater: Omnic or man.

Ramattra decides that man is like a cancer, a toxin which poisons his single generation race.

[cyan wedge]

Yeah he just does what everyone else is doing atm, killing each other and treating each other differently. One superior to another.

[ornate lynx]

ramattras fine shyt lowk

[keen summit]

Except that hes mistreating omnics too

[tight bay]

i think reinhardt is really cool and is the strongest person

and he can beat all the omits on his own

cause he’s so cool

[balmy dove]

deadass

[ornate lynx]

he can hammer me down🥰

[latent lark]

so if Vendetta takes over Talon which I feel is the direction theyre trying to lead to, do you think the arc will end with either Doomfist taking it back OR Vendetta and Doom gaining an odd mutual respect for each other and team up and run Talon together

doonmfist belives only the strongest should rule so if he gets bested by her hes going to view her with respect in some way

its how Muaga joined Talon, because mauga put up a good fight against Doom with no weapons

[spare fox]

Yeah it'll be interesting

Doom really doesn't have any foils .. he actually hasn't really done anything except break out of prison and steal the gauntlet and try to attack Numbani

[latent lark]

wrong kinda lore

it was a joke

anyway

Vendetta

[keen summit]

I dont think she'll take over talon anytime soon

Itll probs like they catch doom and then vendetta takes over

[fossil temple]

people actually look into ow lore?

[peak escarp]

yes, we do

[meager geyser]

Why are you surprised?

[fossil temple]

not surprised just amazed

[past copper]

At least a game that's been around since 2016 has kept up its lore

Most don't even try to do that anymore

[meager geyser]

It had a brake from like 2020 - 2023

And then 2023 - 2025

There were new heros, but nothing in terms of the story

[keen summit]

Thats lore

Every hero has lore

Not all super interesting but its all lore

And we also got comics, short stories, books,

[gloomy rose]

people want the timeline to move forward and new things to happen, most people don’t give a shit about maugas backstory or whatever. i mean it’s nice but it’s not what people really want

[loud marsh]

I mean, the short mauga cinematic also showed what Talon is up to

[leaden hornet]

wow so true

ramattra is such a tragic villain i hope he wins and he gets wat he wants

[spare fox]

I LOVED A Great Day, it's one of my favorites bc it had:
-SHOWING what the characters were all about, not just internal monologing over an otherwise irrelevant action scene
-relevant to the overall story, and compelling at that
-a bit of intrigue (why does Talon/Doom want to keep it all hushhush? From Ram? What does it do? Did Sombra even give it to Doom?
-humor, action, etc
-several heroes interacting in a story that moves the plot forward, if only by inches... and gives us an update on where heroes currently are in the story that we otherwise haven't heard from much recently (Reaper, Doomfist)

[fallow mantle]

Big agree, def one of my favourites of the new age cinematics

That and The Hunt Begins, for me

Oh, La Lupa too lol

[spare fox]

yes! The Hunt Begins is great for similar reasons!

[gloomy rose]

yeah but i mean something big like zero hour or high noon, where there are major developments or changes in the roster. in the case of zero hour, everyone’s finally beginning to link up, and high noon had the echo reveal as well as cass assembling the blizzvengers

or sojourns showing that null sector is swinging dong in toronto

[halcyon knoll]

hi guys i wanna write some fan ics, where do i read more lore to help with it?

[azure flint]

vendetta comic tomorrow

trust

[meager geyser]

There are YouTube videos if you want the general lore

There's fan wiki

And you can ask here if you want to know something specific

[celest terrace]

Omg you’re still in the server wtf

[halcyon knoll]

thanks~

[peak escarp]

been here all along

[plain halo]

Patience is a position too sometimes the best trade is no trade.

[fallow mantle]

The Vendetta skin from her comic 🔥

It looks so good in game

[keen summit]

the ashe skin is coming now

[fallow mantle]

Ikr, looks so good. When I changed the month on my calendar today I was like, "I bet that's gonna be a skin this year!" and lo and behold

[fallow mantle]

Woah, Orisa mythic weapon skin

[fallow mantle]

bob too, as per the new season article you can see him in the last bit of art lmao

[fallow mantle]

Magma Titan Doomfist mythic midseason...ooo

[digital linden]

s20 extremely underwhelming

[frail grove]

Idc what people say, ill be wearing that skin even in the summer

[azure flint]

gee thanks blizzard

only a few years late

now gimme that genji skin too

[paper raft]

You see, I'm being told there's a sym skin but I am NOT seeing it

[marble charm]

This is all the confirmed stuff I have pictures of

Idk if there's a sym skin

[loud marsh]

REAPER

Every year someone has to be looking on

[elfin bane]

cassidy mythic is smash

wuyang winter looks really good

but his blue on looks a little odd

so now the question is

do i get the battle pass

[wise grotto]

Imma be honest the mythic for cass is so boring to me

[woeful dirge]

hello, I have a question, what is the significance of jade in overwatch? Ram has a full skin based on it and there is also the weapon skin which of all green stuff is named after jade

[spare fox]

I don't believe there's any significance to it. I don't think the Ram skin and the weapon skin reward have anything to do with one another, tbh

[woeful dirge]

ok ok thx

[wise grotto]

There’s no real significance in lore
Though jade itself has significance irl as a very expensive fine raw material

[elfin bane]

yea its not a lore thing its just because jade is pretty probably

[past copper]

Gotta say, looking forward to the heist skins the most s20

Love to see more get added

I fucks with shark Reaper

[elfin bane]

real

shark reaper is sick

i wish bp was better tho

actually i’m lying those skins look really good i just dont play any of them

[shy dagger]

Chat we won

https://x.com/owcavalry/status/1996359485259215114?s=46

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry)

Blizzard signal long-term plans for #Overwatch2 🧡

A new job listing seeks a Creative Director to develop the narrative roadmap for "the next decade of Overwatch", expanding across "games, cinematics, publishing, and transmedia".

X · Dec 3, 2025, 11:22 PM

[wise grotto]

I mean
After micro soft gutted there lore team blizzard has to pickup the pieces hit hellll yea

[cyan wedge]

That’s so dope, we about to have movies let’s GO

(I hope even if they aren’t official more LORE)

[spare fox]

probably unpopular opinion, but I hope it's not movies

and I hope it's not an "arcane-style" netflix series either tbh

mostly bc I don't want it to be where we spend 4 years on 6 characters

[fallow mantle]

And then it's over after two series

[spare fox]

with a 3-4 year wait between seasons

I know Arcane is glorified, I'm not saying it wasn't good! but... it didn't need to be such a huge budget

I think an Overwatch series could be successful with more modest animation and sfx, but the same amount of good writing and more emphasis on heart and hope

I might be projecting a little with this, but I think people have dystopian grimdark fatigue

[hard pine]

Meh for me ow is way to late to do all of this

[spare fox]

I see where you're coming from

I've tried pitching OW for each "we are so back!" moment to friends who used to play at launch, it feels like they ignore it or pass on it because it's Overwatch...

[fallow mantle]

Tbh I think if there WAS an actual show? Then it would immediately skyrocket, as that's literally what fans have been begging for for years (since before PVE, even)

It'd bring in people that've never played it either, like I watched s1 of arcane, with no knowledge of League aside from a few characters, I'd played maybe five games vs ai years and years ago, but I enjoyed the series. I've never played any fallout game, but I enjoyed the fallout show, etc etc

[twilit patrol]

[gloomy rose]

is there a link to this job posting?? i couldn’t find it

[livid girder]

omfg yall the lore might be saved

[shy dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/squid-game-squid-game-2-cheers-happy-excited-gif-13406404385856133045

[shy dagger]

Nope can’t find it either

[livid girder]

no way it’s the moe

[azure flint]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-gif-25307361

waiting for vendettas comic to come out online

[paper raft]

Lit this only bc of the happy trail but the rest of the mythic is absolute bunsss

[final fable]

actually gonna end it where are the ram skins

[paper raft]

Like I ain't seeing how that's a mythic when his summer skin mops the floor in regards to detail

[past copper]

Same place as the Illari skins

[hasty sail]

Really sitting and pondering Overwatch lore is making me so frustrated because Doomfist is genuinely 100% right and Overwatch are a bunch of idealists with no real plan who must live in lala land to even truly believe the things they preach are possible 😭✌️

[ionic summit]

saying doomfist is right is like saying thanos was right 💔

[frank rampart]

Crying

[hasty sail]

In the movies I think his idea was right but his plan on how to execute that was what’s fucked up

The ends did NOT justify those means

In the comics he’s lwk a bum

Bro did allat for the huzz

“I will shred this universe down to its last atom” yeah he’s doing too much

[ionic summit]

and in the end, it's the actions one remember most. doomfist is a terrorist 😭

[edgy meadow]

theres definitely validity in that, which is why for a good while the morality of overwatch as a group was dubious and questionable, especially after disbanding

I expect (and hope) for that element to still be retained in the future of the story

because i think its important

[hasty sail]

But his idea and his plan would genuinely help humanity tremendously

If Overwatch got their way they would be living in Wall E

[edgy meadow]

well the problem is that we dont really know what doomfist's plan is either besides 'incite conflict'

conflict doesnt always end well if it doesnt have a clear aim

which is kind of a parallel reason to why overwatch collapsed on itself

they operated and exacted justice without a clear end goal because they had the authority

talon is kind of doing the same thing just without that authority

[ionic summit]

his plan is to start a war and wipe out the weak. sure, making humanity stronger is good, but then we come to how he wants it. it's the same with ramattra. he wants a better life for omnics. a good thing, yes. and how does he wanna do this? wiping out humanity

[hasty sail]

That’s not true at all. His idea is that humanity is strengthened and develops through conflict, which it does. A world of absolute peace and prosperity is not only impossible but even if it wasn’t we would end up like humans in fucking Wall-E. It’s just a fact of life that facing hardship is what makes us stronger people. One of his voice lines is even “embrace your inner conflict.” That’s literally how character development and maturing happens. Saying he wants to just “wipe out the weak” is a mischaracterization. He actively encourages and preaches to everyone how to be their best selves and not be “weak.” And yes, he’s right about that too. If you just stay stuck on some inner turmoil and never grow past it you let that define you and make you weak

When he says conflict he isn’t just referring to war and battle and stuff like that

He’s also talking about personal internal struggles

He preaches about how bad stagnation is because it threatens human growth

Like literally in that context too

Stagnation of growth

[hasty sail]

Ramattra’s situation is NOT the same in ANY way

That entire message is so ignorant

[ionic summit]

not supposed to be. they're both good intentions with bad executions. doomfist wants to make humanity stronger through war. ramattra wants omnics to live safely at the cost of humanity

[hasty sail]

That’s not all Doomfist wants

[hasty sail]

Did you even read this

[ionic summit]

he wants conflict to make humanity stronger. what else?

[hasty sail]

Right

So why are you hearing the term “conflict” and instantly going to “war”

Like bro I shouldn’t even have to say this it’s literally in his voice lines 😭

[ionic summit]

"conflict and war is the crucible to which we evolve" - Doomfist

[hasty sail]

Yes the 2 are not mutually exclusive

And he’s also right about that too 😭

Like

Evidently

“Embrace your inner conflict” is another one of his lines

Because he isn’t just referring to physical battle

He’s referring to a person’s ability to overcome their personal struggles

Are you saying that doesn’t strengthen you as a person

You’re HEARING him but not listening to him

[ionic summit]

sure. but there's a big line between his actions. saying someone shouldn't let personal struggles get them down is one thing. terrorism is another. he literally has a voice line there he says "i am not your savior"

[hasty sail]

Well yeah not all of Doomfist’s actions are for some greater cause (shoutout to Amelie) He’s still a supervillain and I’m sure he’s fully aware that he’s morally grey

Overwatch preaches actual fairytale nonsense

[ionic summit]

he knows people hate him for what he does. the destruction he's caused. the amount of bodies he's left. he wants humanity to grow stronger yeah, but at a cost

[hasty sail]

In contrast to Doomfist who preaches something logically and has an actual plan to achieve it

Well yeah obviously. No change like that comes easy

[ionic summit]

wanna join Talon while you're at it? 😭

[hasty sail]

I’ll drink a bunch of chemicals in Moira’s lab and hopefully gain superpowers

[ionic summit]

you won't. you'd die 😭

[hasty sail]

Nah trust me im chillin

[ionic summit]

with moira? yeah nah idk about that one

[hasty sail]

Gonna turn into a hideous monster

Take over Zarya’s spot as the S tier tank

[ionic summit]

aight bro

[median orchid]

Yeah I've allways tought Overwatch to be the "Morally superior" Bleeding heart "Military" division in my headcanons and fics ...

Basically and quite literally ... Overwatch = UN. As it was funded by the UN before Petras.

Tough Overwatch has achieved SOME things like stopping the Kings row uprising ETC ... Unlike the UN which constantly denies the existance of Genocides and sends "Strongly worded repremands"

They are somewhat effective. The bad thing is that they are not effective enough.

But TBH, id have ANYTHING over the UN. Id rather have Talon run the world than the sheer incompetence that is modern day and historical UN

[calm star]

i feel like zen is chinese no? (maybe japanese from the first skin shown but idk i always thought zen was chinese)

i feel like these skins hint at it but then there are also other skins that might hint at smth else

like these

idk ever since i saw the zhuge liang skin i always thought zen was chinese

the real question is what would zenyattas ethnicity be if he was a human and what dictates that? like where he was manufactured or where he was first activated or wtv it is 🤔

[median orchid]

Im pretty sure that these skins are just Chinese new years skins and don't mean anything rolewise.

Canonically id guess hes made / manufactured in China or some other technologically advanced country and adopted his identity as a Monk at the shambali monestary located in Nepal

If we go by manufacturing location, likely China.
If we go by his presence and lore? Id guess Nepal

[meager geyser]

1. Those are just not canon skins
2. Omnics don't really have a nationality, but the closest country for Zenyatta is Nepal

[steady ore]

https://www.youtube.com/live/OxIuczSbFro

[edgy meadow]

i see your point

[fallow mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDiqTSiZyOs
Vendetta storytime

That was awesome 🔥

[keen summit]

zephyro is also mentioned in her comic

thats cool

yknow the other gladiators

[silent slate]

true

[silent slate]

yh

[silent slate]

Hey your like a theorist or lore hungry guy could you explain what you mean?

[lunar mesa]

Would yall like for the lore in general to take a dark turn and start showing the ow members start killin omnics and talon members just because it has to be done to stop them

I think that would be cool

[silent slate]

Genji would do that.

[keen summit]

theres a few gladiators shown on colloseo on the screen in a building

one of these is zephyro

hes shown as an ally to her

[silent slate]

Is it like in the colaseum map his weapon is shown there??

[silent slate]

And how do you know the name?

[keen summit]

its shown on the display

[keen summit]

sorry zephyrus

been a while

this is where its from

[silent slate]

Holy cow ty for the info

[keen summit]

hell it shows her winning against zephyrus

[meager geyser]

Bro looks like a winged Hussar LOL

Both wings an the helmet match

[merry mason]

Yeah I’d like the higher stakes and intensity deaths would provide

[sudden mist]

W bans

[lunar mesa]

I want a vilian like doomfist or ram to just crashout and just start killin people

I think some darker tones would be GREAT in the story

[calm star]

i know they dont but when ppl draw him as a human for fun the question is what would be the most canon depiction

[azure flint]

wow that new comic

turns out some of the leak was bullshit

[digital linden]

||who did she kill at the end of the comic??||

[azure flint]

random talon member idk

[wise grotto]

Ramm has officially killed people the short stories with soj talked about the piles of body’s

[fossil wren]

Random talon council member

[merry mason]

Oh yeah sojourns short story was wild

[fallow mantle]

It's one of my favs tbh because it actually depicts the horrors, whereas the in game mission is conveniently no people anywhere

[azure flint]

https://fixupx.com/OWCavalry/status/1996704340183310703

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry)

First Look at Vendetta's Hero Interactions in #Overwatch2 🔊
︀︀
︀︀Featuring conversations with Cassidy, Lucio, Reaper, DVa, Juno, Widowmaker, and Doomfist.
︀︀
︀︀👂 Hear more in-game on December 09.

**💬 5 🔁 24 ❤️ 274 👁️ 3.4K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Dec 4, 2025, 10:13 PM

whoops

there we go

anyways new juicy interactions with vendetta

[merry mason]

Aw I was hoping there would be some dramatic irony with vendetta not knowing who reaper is

Isn’t his identity supposed to be a secret?

[wise grotto]

With how much power she has plus literally kills a talon member
Pretty sure (as I theorized before) she’d find ways to find any and all info

I mean hell The ow members know who reaper is

[elfin bane]

in game voice lines aren’t always lore accurate

[peak escarp]

I'd be very surprised if she actually knows

the OW members know because Mercy knows and could tell them

[kind ore]

Since there is no established lore on it, I can't help but wonder what was going on in the Pacific Northwest at the time of the Omnic Crisis

[azure flint]

interactions arent canon

mostly

[lapis bramble]

Roadhog

[wise grotto]

If mercy knows other people in talon would probably know and then it goes down person to person in the higher ups at least
My guess is she definitely know

[peak escarp]

Mercy knows because Soldier and Ana told her

what does that have to do with Talon?

[wise grotto]

People in talon would probably know seeing as
Sombra Mauga (especially Mauga) Moira and doom at the minimum would know
Can’t imagine doom or Moira didn’t bring it up at some point
And if Mauga knows I’m pretty sure he’d just say it randomly any convo it apples

[peak escarp]

why would Mauga know?

Sombra definitely knows but she would use it as leverage, not tell people at will
Moira knows but also gains nothing by telling people
Doomfist knows but why would he tell anyone - especially not the other Talon council members, who might want revenge against Gabriel Reyes

[mortal flicker]

Free my boy @smoky knot!!! He aint do nunn!!! ADMINS SOFT AF

[hasty sail]

How did Ana survive being sniped in the face??

Does Widowmaker’s gun just use Tarkov rules and she had the wrong ammo

[grand wedge]

It’s her cybernetic eye that was shot. And too the blunt of the shot. But also : plot armor

[marble charm]

I think anything said in an interaction is canon

But the line itself being said isn't as a general rule of thumb

At least that's my interpretation

Like im gonna take the soldier ana "1 bullet, 3 kills", the rein ana "dancing in Gibraltar" ect as canon that occured

Tbf those interactions are far more likely to happen than most but like

If someone says they've done something or the sorts ect

That did happen

Its just torb and doom havent said that to eachother

[marble charm]

Okay I really love her sass and snark those are really fun lines

[grand wedge]

It reflect the character of the character, not the canon occurrence of the interaction, since a lot of characters haven’t met.

[marble charm]

I especially like the cassidy one but that might just because Matt sounds so sexy as a cowboy 😭

[marble charm]

Yea exactly

Anything that is said is Canon (bar sarcastic lines, egoing someone ect) but the actual instance of those lines being shared between the two characters isn't canon

Also does anyone have a link to the vendetta comic? Its out now yes

Im not launching ow to read the comic xD

Wait i can just Google it mb

[grand wedge]

https://youtu.be/GDiqTSiZyOs

[marble charm]

Oh it has a read through

YEA

Thank you!