#lore-discussion

1 messages · Page 222 of 1

median orchid
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Dont quote me on this:

Doomfist (Akande Ogundimu) was born into a rich family that owned a prostethics firm. He lost his was it his right arm sometime in his younger years due to the omnic crisis. Ultimately one day joined talon, killed his mentor, Akinjide Adeyemi and rose the ranks in talon

rough gulch
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Thanks @median orchid 👨‍❤️‍💋‍👨

median orchid
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I can continue thiat

buoyant elk
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Yes please....

median orchid
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More over, once he became the leader of talon he used his connections in talon and his inherited prostethics firm to manufacture the Doomfist gauntlet which canonically could level skyscrapers

rough gulch
buoyant elk
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Wait is the gauntlet like infinity gauntlet level power

median orchid
buoyant elk
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I wonder his power scaling vs thanos lol

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Damn

median orchid
rough gulch
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Could denji beat doom fist

buoyant elk
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Cmon bro be serious

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Doomfist beats denji

rough gulch
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No chance icl

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Ok enlighten me

median orchid
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Eventually doomfist was confronted by a Overwatch striketeam consisting of Tracer, Genji and Winston in Signapore. Where he defeated Genji. Tore out Tracers chronal accelelator nearly loosing her to time again. But when Winston saw him just brutalize his friends and team he entered primal rage and defeated doomfist with a primal punch

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It has its own cinematic video, one of the cooler ones in my opinion.

rough gulch
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Thats why Winston has that "primal punch!" Voiceline. I spam that one in game....

buoyant elk
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I was thinking why you did that... very instresting

rough gulch
median orchid
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It even has his own Spray

rough gulch
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Nexus how do you know all the lore? Youre so cool...

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Would primal punch obliterate a human being

median orchid
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I just love OW as a world

median orchid
rough gulch
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What rank and platform are you? Might have to add you to the stack....

median orchid
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Imagine a silverback gorilla. Now imagine what a genetically engineer and altered gorilla would do to a person.

buoyant elk
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Wow... his brain is splattered

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So technically winston wouldnt beat 3 Marines

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Even though he has primal punch

median orchid
rough gulch
buoyant elk
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They can just shoot him no ?

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And what can he do

rough gulch
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Winston is immune to bullets....

buoyant elk
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No he isnr

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Isnt

median orchid
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He soloes a Talon squad in his cinematic

buoyant elk
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Bruh

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Okay lets bring in an anime character

tacit wraith
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didn't he get mag dumped by reaper and widowmaker and just eat it

buoyant elk
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Would muzan beat winston

median orchid
median orchid
buoyant elk
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Would power beat winston

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From Chainsaw man

median orchid
median orchid
rough gulch
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What is this,...., chainsaw man?....

buoyant elk
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How about BEAM

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The shark

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Did you see the new movie nexus ?

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Did you read the manga ?

median orchid
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Nope but know som of em. Winston is canonically one of the strongest heroes in OW so ...

rough gulch
buoyant elk
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Sorry... i like chainsaw man

median orchid
buoyant elk
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I will do

median orchid
buoyant elk
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I acctually watched the one on tracer vs widowmaker because she has such a gyatt...

rough gulch
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Ive seen the reinhardt one... always makes me cry

rough gulch
buoyant elk
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Yes indeed that is sad ziny

rough gulch
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Whats a gyatt??...

buoyant elk
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Please look it up

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Or that

rough gulch
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Thats inappropriate kin1....

median orchid
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Its your rear end, gyat is a gringe word

buoyant elk
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I think you have stared at her gyat too ziny. Especially in game.

median orchid
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Am I the only person who loves Tracer as a charecter instead of her looks lol. Like shes one of my #1 favorite charecters in history

rough gulch
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@median orchid what rank and platform are you? I want to learn in game too...

buoyant elk
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Well nexuss who is the best looking ow character

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In your opinion

median orchid
rough gulch
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Thats a shame...

median orchid
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If cool factor is included defo Genji

buoyant elk
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I think ziny loves lifeweavee

median orchid
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I know, i would be gay for Lifeweaver but romance and that sorta gooner stuff is not for me

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Why did this get so akward lol

rough gulch
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Im top 500 console lw...

median orchid
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Such a nice guy in Lore too, love his charecter too.

tacit wraith
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most fun support

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only because of life grip

median orchid
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Want Lifeweaver lore @rough gulch?

rough gulch
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Yes please....

merry mason
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He like tree

median orchid
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Coming right up, this is going to take some time to write so buckle up

rough gulch
median orchid
tacit wraith
buoyant elk
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Power is badder than widow...

rough gulch
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Reze>power....

median orchid
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So, Lifeweaver (Niran Pruksamanee) was born in Thailand. In a rich family which worked for VISKHAR which is a really shady authoritarian company that is interesting in its own right. Actually Symmetra is his Big sister.

Anyways he was born there, tough ultimately grew up to hate the controlling and fabricated way VISKHAR ran things. He left his family and ran off. He had a bounty placed on his head there after.

Thats the premise

tacit wraith
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how do you find this stuff out

median orchid
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Fun facts:

Lifeweaver used the millions of dollars his family gave to him during his education and donated it to all sorts of charities

Lifeweaver is canonically pansexual!

The light constructs that he uses for his platforms and trees is the same tech LUCIOS skates use

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Rattata do you think power is better or reze

rough gulch
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How is lifeweaver related to sym if they are from different places tho...

median orchid
buoyant elk
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What ?+

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?!

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How

tacit wraith
median orchid
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They are from the same family

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Both vishkar

buoyant elk
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But rattata whos badder...

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I never knew that nexuss

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I always ban symmetra players..

median orchid
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Hold on...

rough gulch
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Nexus is the best...

median orchid
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Let me fact check that if im sure

buoyant elk
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Since am i dva main... i hate symmetras...

median orchid
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Yep, Lifeweaver and Symmetra are related!

rough gulch
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Thats crazy

median orchid
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Symmetra is big sister to Lifeweaver

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I would give you guys links and screenshots of this all but this server doesnt allow all that lol

tacit wraith
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has my goat junkrat done anything significant

median orchid
buoyant elk
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Yup...

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Wanted criminals..

tacit wraith
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what a cool guy

median orchid
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and attempted to assasinate the Junker Queen

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As shown in his Cinematic

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Doofuses tried to push in a cart trough junkertown full of loot (but rigged with lit dynamite and bombs) to kaput the queen

tacit wraith
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junker queen's introduction video was so good

tacit wraith
median orchid
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All the "movies" are cinema

tacit wraith
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mainly because of her talking to the camera

median orchid
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Also Junkrats name is Jamison Fawkes. Funny name. And he was irradiated by the Omnium explosion in the Australian outback

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Basically all of Australia is a radioactive wasteland

tacit wraith
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didn't know that second part

median orchid
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Yep. Could also explain why Roadhog is ... Uhh big

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Cuz he was a normal person one day ... (Tough he doesnt have any origin story material or any descriptions on how he looked before)

peak escarp
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Symmetra was picked up by Vishkar off the street because they recognized her talent

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the wiki is an unreliable source

median orchid
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Damn

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Yeah seems like it

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It allways wouldve made sense since they both seem so close to eachother

peak escarp
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they are very close

median orchid
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Yeah i guess to me it gave off more of a relationship between sibblings. I guess the "Family picture" on the wiki tripped me up lol

potent crater
peak escarp
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from her bio

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After she was identified as one of the few capable of becoming a light-bending architech, young Satya Vaswani was plucked from extreme poverty and placed in the care of Vishkar's architech academy, never to return home.

peak escarp
potent crater
peak escarp
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https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/symmetra/

Overwatch 2

Overwatch 2 is a free-to-play, team-based action game set in the optimistic future, where every match is the ultimate 5v5 battlefield brawl. Play as a time-jumping freedom fighter, a beat-dropping battlefield DJ, or one of over 30 other unique heroes as you battle it out around the globe.

potent crater
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thx!

fossil wren
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No lupa on sight?

peak escarp
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I expected nothing and still I'm disappointed

twilit patrol
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This mid season is pathetic overrall ngl

fallow mantle
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I love the magepunk skins 💀 goofy

median orchid
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So, Blizzard couldn't add the other, Older cinematics. Multi-million dollar developers by the way.

peak escarp
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the story veiwer seems to be more concerned with present events

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not lore that happened in the past

median orchid
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Well thats lame, golden oportunity to showcase the beatifull animations to a new audience that never saw them on Youtube

fallow mantle
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I really had my hopes up it'd just be the Media tab from the site but presented in a better way in-game

median orchid
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Maybe some day (Likely never)

digital linden
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i’m assuming the two coming soon tabs in the story thing are for lupa

tight stream
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anyone got a good youtube playlist to watch all cinematics and lore videos in order

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the ingame one doesnt have thr actual cinematics

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just the recent ones and s brief story

tight stream
tight stream
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i wanna binge it but idk if theres an order

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is there?

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anyone cud lmk id appreciate thank you

peak escarp
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the official playlist is in order newest to oldest

tight stream
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THANK YOUU

spare fox
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unless they change it, which is entirely possible since they hid it again

peak escarp
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they probably hid it because it wasn't supposed to be visible yet

spare fox
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yes, but it's entirely possible that the date may change

elfin bane
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hey

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any junkrat mains here

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what’s your opinion on the skin becuse i think it’s kinda bad

peak escarp
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I think it's fantastic

elfin bane
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even with the tire being the only real customization ?

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idk maybe it’s just not for me

spare fox
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I'm a junkrat main and I love it - especially the weapon effects

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the thing that has me going "huh?" is that he's not missing the left pointer finger in this skin

peak escarp
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there's colour options too

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but customization isn't what I care about when it comes to mythics

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I just want a cool design, and I really like this one

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-# even if it does look like a Hazard cosplay

spare fox
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it's like a Hazard cosplay and the voicelines for it are Sombra's lol

peak escarp
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I haven't disliked any of the mythic skins so far

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Orisa's is probably the weakest design, but I still like it

spare fox
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I don't like Orisa's, it's kind of a waste of a mythic. She already had a skin like that, and nobody liked that one

peak escarp
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my favourites are Kiriko, Hanzo and Moira

azure flint
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if there are two slots in the lore tab they must be a lupa origin story and a lupa storytime video

peak escarp
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probably

azure flint
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we will be watching

craggy thistle
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Haha yep!

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Hi guys! ^^

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I was wondering

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How posible is that we get a mushroom related hero?

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Asking bc

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I work with them lmao

past copper
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So remember when we had a glimpse at future collabs

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Already see how a Star Wars one will go

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Overwatch x Star Wars A New Hope Collab

Genji - Luke Skywalker
Cassidy - Han Solo
Mercy - Leia Organa
Winston - Chewbacca
Reaper - Darth Vader

heady cloak
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RAM DARTH VADER PLEASEEEE

edgy meadow
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im for one down for less collabs if they deliver on the promise of investing more into the setting and worldbuilding again

lone parrot
keen summit
keen summit
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The issue is that its worldbuilding for the sake of worldbuilding for a while atleast

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Alot of the new stuff kimda just gets added to the world and not any further detail

fossil wren
fossil wren
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Sigma could be Palpatine/Vader instead of reaper

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Personally, I prefer Sigma as Vader, since Sigma's gravitational powers are similar to the Force

fossil wren
cyan relic
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whats the new story thing about

median orchid
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If you are referring to Lupa? Nobody knows. She gives off a strong villain archetype so she likely will be a major part of talon, or a entirely new hostile faction

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Null sector has taken a back seat and Overwatch has been "Temporarily" re-established by the internationall justice court since the Sojourn interview lore-drop came out so I have my money on either Talon returning or a new antagonist faction

ionic summit
mighty vigil
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damn, efi and most likely orisa is part of overwatch now
null sector and talon wont stand a chance against that raid boss horse

craggy thistle
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also gm haha

edgy meadow
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id rather they dont rush it through though

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but they need to do this correctly

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which is what i meant when i said that they would 'deliver' on it

tight stream
median orchid
wise grotto
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They only have 2 thag are coming soon I’d imagine more coming soons will be added eventually

Old ones should be there tho for sure

median orchid
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Like what about the rest of the content like the comics? Such a waste to only limit them to the official media tab on the website

tight stream
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im teyna watch em inbetween comp queues lol

last turtle
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Hello can someone explain me the lor

azure flint
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it takes place in the 2070s

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and some stuff happens

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and in the 2040s or wtv all robots became bad until ow was created and they stopped them

spare fox
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check the pins on this channel for lore, and now there's a story tab in the game client

hasty sky
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meow

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Sorry

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Beo what the hell this is lore discussion

real hamlet
late gulch
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me too

peak escarp
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watch the videos if you want to learn the lore

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there's too much for people to explain here

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links are pinned

spare fox
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Even in the story tab on the game client, there's a summary video, "The Story So Far" that's a great intro

azure flint
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kinda wish they added the old cinematics and what not too

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if they wanna focus on ow2 lore they could just put those in a "legacy" tab or smth

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not to mention the rest of the ow2 heroes lore that isn't in the menu

craggy thistle
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yea good point

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hi guys gm! ^^/

craggy thistle
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Hey, do you think that we could MAYBE have a drag hero some day?

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I know is a weird question but as a trans person I really really REALLY want to se one! xD

peak escarp
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drag? not likely
trans? we already have Venture, but another is probable

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Tracer already has several skins of her dressed as a male character, does that count as drag?

wise grotto
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A drag characters unlikely and there’s no trans character just non binary

peak escarp
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non binary is trans

wise grotto
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It falls under the umbrella but is more up to the person over just a straight yes or no

past copper
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So, you think that Cyber Fuel Junkrat is connected to Ultraviolet Sentinel Sojourn & the Ramattra skins? Or the Mage Punk skins?

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Or possibly Cyberpunk in general

woven jewel
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I believe skins are mostly non-canon with some exceptions. Unless there's an AU lore to some of them if that's what you mean lol

shadow jolt
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the lore is made up its ont real!

wise grotto
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The only ones that have true lore past like skin per skin where the omnic and mirrorwatch skins

neat forum
woven jewel
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Yeah, there's def lore skins like young variants (Genji, Reaper, Soldier, etc)

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And others

past copper
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Ya know. Really hoping Mauga, Junker Queen, Venture, Juno, and Ramattra get some Winter skins next season

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Tho, technically Mauga and Junker Queen have those frost giant skins so that's something close 🤷‍♂️

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Icicle Venture, gingerbread Ramattra, Santa Claus Mauga (it could happen)

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I wonder... Mrs. Claus Kiriko when?

wise grotto
past copper
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If they were EVER going to give Reinhardt a Santa Claus skin, they'd have done it back in Overwatch 1

hushed jetty
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with torb being santa its an even weirder choice

lyric latch
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Is it lore accurate to get teamates that dont know their playing overwatch?

past copper
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But we don't have a Mrs. Claus

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Seriously, the woman literally gets next to no attention in almost every kind of media

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With Christmas at least

spare fox
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I mean Mei kind of has the Santa Meirry skin, that kind of could be a Mrs Claus maybe?

fleet scaffold
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Something I've been thinking about.

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OW2's cast of characters, it's all strange.

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There's a clear disparity and lack of continuity between how these characters are portrayed in lore vs in game. As though in game is like-- an overinflated exaggeration of the characters.

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Dva being the clear example. Her cinematic short is more humble and heroic than her toxic gamer girl nature in game.

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Why is it that alot of the characters lack any sort of complexity to them?

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There's never any morally grey character when we view them in lore, they always have to be clearly one end of the spectrum or the other.

normal cedar
wise grotto
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Freya haz the junkers soldier sigma sombra cass kinda sat on this morally grey line for a long time cause they aren’t
Actually full heroes or villains

Syms extremely morally grey cause she essentially is a decent person working for one of the more evil groups in the game as capitalism itself vishkar

median orchid
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Id say that most of the cast is morally grey for either:

A) Actively committing crimes and breaking the law to pursue their goals I:E The junkers, Ashe, Freja
B) Actively going against the law but with positive intentions (Vigilantism) I:E Tracer, Winston < Actively going against the PETRAS ACT> and answering the recall and heroes like Soldier76 and Ana which want to fight Talon on their own terms.
C) Actively working for or allied to a shady organization like Talon, Deadlock gang or Vishkar I:E all Talon heroes.

marble charm
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Idk if I'd consider Heroes who responded to the call morally grey

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In the eyes of the law it is a crime yes but the characters themselves aren't doing anything inherently evil

fleet scaffold
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Sort of like Red Hood from Batman series.

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I'd say she's far less forgiving and actually not Grey just neutral.

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While Red Hood kills for justice, Freja kills for a price.

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Frejas relationships are purely transactional and if paid enough, could make an enemy of anymore.

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But it also means she has no personal loyalties, nothing to stand for, nothing to fight for.

normal cedar
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then you dont know what morally frey is

normal cedar
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no loyalty no faction

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thats morally grey

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characters whose actions aren't neatly aligned with good or evil, operating with ambiguous morals and unclear motives.

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morally gery

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that describes freja

fleet scaffold
# wise grotto Freya haz the junkers soldier sigma sombra cass kinda sat on this morally grey l...

Hazard is purely a rebel but thats not morally Grey, he's just rebellious. At best putting him in chaotic neutral. He doesn't want to destroy the world but he also won't live by its rules.

Junkerqueen is not strictly good nor bad, so okay, she gets the grey.

Junkrat is insane so I don't think you can apply morals to someone like that.

Soldier 76, okay I can see the moral grey. Kills for justice.

Sigma is disturbed mentally by his experiment causing his mind to be torn by the infinity that is a black hole. Can't put him as morally grey because he doesn't know what he wants for himself now. I'd say neutral.

Sombra is just plain villain I'd say, self serving, selfish and manipulative. She may not sound like the cliche evils of the past but that doesn't make her any less a villain.

Cassidy, as of OW2 is purely good. Like-- strictly. I know he had Blackwatch ops for a while but that's his past now. Right now just a gunslinger fighting for justice.

fleet scaffold
# normal cedar no loyalty no faction

Actually after revisiting that. Yeah, she'd be morally grey, because she has equal opportunity to do something just as good for someone and doing equally just as bad for another.

fleet scaffold
fleet scaffold
kind ore
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Has there ever been an Overwatch story set in the Pacific Northwest?

peak escarp
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also Pharah's father is from there (likely Vancouver)

kind ore
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After Wuyang's introduction, which feels like Overwatch meets Avatar, that gave me an idea for a story that can be described as Overwatch meets Twin Peaks

azure flint
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need monday to get here already bro

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i am very curious about lupa

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lupa causes chaos which gets both talon and overwatch's attention so they both try to deal with her in their own ways which escalates into a full overwatch vs talon war

spare fox
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They're not already at war?

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Idk i personally think the Lupa hero will try to take over Talon, usurp Doomfist

feral hawk
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Cassidy can shoot

robust palm
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Cassidy can fly

spare fox
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Cassidy can... not tell time

kind ore
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Cassidy would like very out of place in the PNW. Anyone ever noticed?

peak escarp
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why are you so obsessed with the pacific northwest?

loud marsh
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I don't think Sombra is evil at all

loud marsh
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She is one of the few characters I'd say is morally just

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I don't think she's a villain or a hero, not anti-hero either. She wants information to play the cards, not to become rich, famous or all powerful. She wants to change things and information is her speciality

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Her goals are unknown

digital vapor
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Are omnics like the yns of the verse?

spare fox
median orchid
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Id say Sombra is certainly malicious but evil? Id say just the fact alone that she works for Talon makes her at least somewhat evil, overseeing and assisting in countless operations and attacks. Even if she is just part of it for her own gain.

I:E blackmailing the Volskaya Leader, Katya Volskaya with the safety of her own daughter if she didn't comply with Sombra is definitely Fd up.

worthy rose
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Lore reason why JQ is the hottest in the verse ?

potent bone
spare fox
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Punk rock and radiation

fossil wren
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Lupa tomorrow

glass trench
marble crest
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Man I wonder if the new hero’s got their abilities from wolf college or something

robust palm
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She's magik

merry mason
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Villains will have one (1) good character trait and people will say they’re a saint

floral chasm
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i dont understand what widow's character is supposed to be they say shes emotionless and brainwashed but she just talks like girl reaper

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i think it would be cooler if literally everything she said was in an attempt to appear charming with homicidal overtones it would fit her backstory and femme fatale thing

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and more unique

past copper
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Widowmaker was turned into the perfect assassin by Talon. By means of undergoing genetic modifications to slow her heart beat down

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Aside from whatever training she went through to become a deadly snuper. She's also unwillingly underwent some form of psychological manipulation from Talon

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Overall, she was once an innocent woman with nothing to do with what her husband did for Overwatch

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Whom Talon kidnapped, turned into a sleeper agent to kill her husband, before she returned to Talon and allowed them to turn her into a trained killer

spare fox
peak escarp
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she didn't kill Gerard of her own free will

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she was conditioned by Talon

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After several unsuccessful attempts to eliminate Gérard, Talon decided to change its focus to his wife. In the dead of night, Talon operatives kidnapped Amélie and subjected her to an intense program of neural reconditioning, in effect creating a sleeper agent. Gerard devoted Overwatch’s every resource to recovering his bride, and it wasn’t long before the operation produced results. His agents saved Amélie, and a medical and psychological evaluation after the kidnapping found her to be apparently no worse for wear. Their official assessment proved fatally inaccurate two weeks later . . . when they discovered she had killed Gérard in his sleep.

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she returned to Talon because she was being hunted by Overwatch and police, and because they could let her keep killing

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she enjoyed killing

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conditioning isn't the same as brainwashing, but she still didn't have free will

past copper
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Hence why I sleeper agent. It's not exactly brainwashing

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It's more like... hypnosis in a sense

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One minute, you can be your regular self. But at the command or trigger, become a different person

peak escarp
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exactly

spare fox
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Ig it depends on what fictional part of the science/psychology the writers are going for
In real psychology, you can't be hypnotized or conditioned to do something you truly don't want to do - it's more about muscle memory or responses to stimuli rather than someone's actions being activated by a secret code or whatever

wise grotto
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I’d say it’s probably more similar to the farcry 5 method of we wann compare it to something that works

Replaying the same scenario over and over till eventually the one they wanted you to do happens and it’s too late to realize till the end because your just movin through the motions you’ve been conditioned to go through as effictionelt and quickly as possible

keen grotto
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Ok guys so since pharah and mercy and have 5yr age gap im assuming pharah is 12 ish here and mercy 17 ish. how does she know the ow gang at that point

image.png
digital linden
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mercy is a close family friend with torbjorn and iirc she is just visiting him at the base from university, and pharah is ana's daughter who's there probably for the same reason

peak escarp
peak escarp
keen grotto
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ooohhh okay

peak escarp
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there's no indication that Mercy and Pharah were friends at that age or even knew each other outside of both being involved with Overwatch

keen grotto
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is orisa an omnic

peak escarp
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no

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she's a robot

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omnics are a specific type of robot that gained sentience when Aurora ascended 23 years ago

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Orisa was made after that

fallow mantle
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VENDETTA

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SHE IS HERE

#

ANTONIO IS HER DAD

peak escarp
#

spoilers

fallow mantle
#

I mean sure but

peak escarp
#

the premiere hasn't even finished yet

fallow mantle
#

ok

twilit patrol
#

Vendetta looks sick

median orchid
#

Ok this is quite big ... She is the new main antagonist it seems like

twilit patrol
#

Her sword is absolutely big

#

This is crazy

#

It can't be a dps

#

(But this is another debate)

keen summit
#

Turns out my first guess of her being antoines daughter was actually right

#

Cool

ruby ridge
#

reaper is dead

soft narwhal
azure flint
#

FUCK YES

#

SHES ANTONIOS DAUGHTER

median orchid
#

Pretty big lore dump. Another charecter out for Overwatches necks. Tough will she fight with talon or with her own team?

wise grotto
#

She’s out for everyone I think

median orchid
wise grotto
#

She wants them at war and then she’ll crush whoever’s in her way while both sides are fighting eachother

shy dagger
#

I think

wise grotto
#

Yea
She looks like she’s gonna be in a 1 on fight insanely fuckin busted lore wise
Cause she can move fast with a weapon that massive

median orchid
#

Yea she do be looking like a absolute berserker Strenght wise

keen summit
#

The weapon is also covered in like

#

Datkness energy?

wise grotto
#

It’s probably a form of hard light

fossil wren
#

This part was so fire

IMG_20251117_101439.jpg
wise grotto
#

That’s my guess
They’ve already shown hardligjt can do wild things with Lw making living things

Who’s to say you can’t turn it into a form of matter that destroys everything

wise grotto
fossil wren
ruby ridge
#

Y’all think they’ve been planning his hero has a daughter since ow1 or ever since they realised pve and null sector wouldn’t work out?

azure flint
#

so doom is definitely in trouble then

#

since the leak is real

peak escarp
#

not necessarily

#

the trailer didn't match anything in the leak

wise grotto
#

There’s 4 heroes specifically in the most trouble to her existing now

#

Reaper genji Moira cass

fossil wren
past copper
wise grotto
#

all essentially have THE biggest targets on there back regarding her

past copper
#

This gonna be a pain in the ass hero. Like Junker Queen

#

I can promise that

full cosmos
#

I wonder if she'll go after reaper

#

Or cassidy

ruby ridge
#

And now we know she’s mad at talon which adds credibility

fossil wren
#

This is kind of funny because why is Antonio using such an old rifle?

IMG_20251117_101915.jpg
past copper
#

BTW. Rip to Rein mains out there. La Lupa gonna fuck you guys up

peak escarp
worthy rose
ruby ridge
#

She said she was going to use them no?

peak escarp
#

also she doesn't have curly hair

ruby ridge
#

And referring to the black watch members as Antonio’s adversaries who half of which r in talon

#

Anyway we’ll see if the leaks r real in one week

wise grotto
past copper
peak escarp
#

they're shown as members of Blackwatch, not as members of Talon

wise grotto
#

Which is fairly easily implied cause they where all looking like that when her father died

past copper
#

I definitely think she's a new antagonist. But is she connected to Talon or on her own?

wise grotto
#

The only unrecognizable one from then till now is reaper

past copper
#

We will have to wait and see

wise grotto
ruby ridge
#

Antonio was connected to talon though no?

past copper
#

Not really. Antonio became a leading man in Talon until his death

wise grotto
#

Ah yea he was forgot there

peak escarp
#

yeah Antonio was a major Talon leader, which is why Blackwatch took him out

#

so based on that, Vendetta would have no reason to hate Talon

past copper
#

But whether or not his daughter is connected to Talon or on her own

ruby ridge
past copper
#

Considering she looked to be fighting against Null Sector, I don't think she's with Talon

ruby ridge
#

Killed anotnio*

#

Antonio*

peak escarp
wise grotto
peak escarp
#

it's not public knowledge that Reaper is Reyes

livid elbow
#

||Is there any lore right now for Vendetta beyond her trailer?||

wise grotto
#

Moira’s the kicker

ruby ridge
#

Ah that’s true

wise grotto
#

It’s kinda impossible to mistake Moira for anyone else comparing the two

keen summit
wise grotto
#

Reyes at least might be mistakeabke unless she notices his powers

past copper
#

She knows Blackwatch killed her father. She doesn't appear to be connected to Talon

livid elbow
past copper
#

So I doubt she knows Gabriel and Reaper are the same man

wise grotto
#

If she is she’s probably using talon for her own goals

ruby ridge
wise grotto
#

Or both

#

More likely both I think

ruby ridge
#

What does she even want though

#

To rebuild her fathers empire idk?

past copper
#

Considering how she is, she most likely sees everyone as a piece on a chess board

#

Pieces she can play as she needs to. As she was trained to do

wise grotto
#

Revenge and power are two massive driving forces alluded to and straight up said the entire trialed

past copper
#

She is basically succeeding where her father failed

ruby ridge
#

Oh wait oh wait wait wait

peak escarp
past copper
#

What that means for the future of the game... we can only guess

ruby ridge
#

“Talon’s problems will soon become the worlds problem” I think talon is getting absolutely annihilated and then ow/world will have to deal with her

past copper
#

But we need to stand by. It won't be long until we get a comic about her

wise grotto
#

Mhm
I think she’s actually gone be the true big bad from here on and where gonna get some big lore to talon v Overwatch that’ll settle with them needing to stop what’s happening
That’s my guess

past copper
#

Fill us in on just who she is a bit more

peak escarp
#

that's like Taylor Swift taking over the world

ruby ridge
past copper
#

Doubtful. If we are gonna focus on Talon more, then Doomfist is still the big bad

#

Something to think about... Doomfist could approach with the chance to avenge her father. To get the justice for him against Overwatch she couldn't get before

#

Seems like something he would do. Manipulation is Akande's bread and butter

ruby ridge
#

I doubt lupa is easily manipulated

#

She seems to be a thrill seeker though and want attention since she likes the crowd

past copper
#

I didn't say she was. But when it comes down to it. You can't play chess with only yourself

#

Doomfist can easily be her opponent

#

Something to consider. Just who would he be looking to take off the board to keep La Lupa in the game longer?

#

Doom is already looking towards the likes of Sombra and most likely Max to remove from the game

ruby ridge
#

I wonder how old lupa is

#

She looks like a 12 year old in the trailer as a kid

#

She can’t be other then like 27 right

dense cliff
past copper
#

I mean. She's probably in her early twenties

dense cliff
#

i hope that wouldnt happen

peak escarp
#

Antonio was killed 11 years ago

#

she looks pretty young in the memories, like 10

#

so early 20s is likely

past copper
ruby ridge
#

Rhey’re trying to revolutionise the lore

past copper
#

Yeah. But you already have Doomfist, Ramattra, and the Eye

#

It would not make a whole lot of sense to suddenly release a character and make her the final boss, big bad, etc.

ruby ridge
#

Ramattra is on rest, I think the eye is supposed to be for after talon/side story for none main lore characters and Doomfist is gonna be dealt with alongside lupa

past copper
#

Or we are seeing an Invincible possibility

#

Like how Machine Head was replaced with Titan after season 1

#

La Lupa replacing Doomfist if something should happen to him.... again

ruby ridge
#

She might be adopted

past copper
#

And not make the same mistake as her father and some former seats on Talon

ruby ridge
#

I just realised the leaks also got her name rifht

#

😰

peak escarp
fallow mantle
#

"Denied her inheritance and cast aside, La Lupa clawed her way into legend through the brutal world of arena combat in the Colosseo," Blizzard's official description reads. "With every victory, her influence grew. But beyond the arena, whispers of Vendetta’s past proliferate, hinting at a history that ties her legacy directly to the original Overwatch conflict against Talon. Having carved out her place among the arena’s elite, she cuts down enemies with ruthless, regal precision. Beneath the surface, her ambitions run deeper. Each gladiatorial victory is a calculated step towards something greater."

past copper
#

Also, I see some interesting voicelines coming with her from Junker Queen, Doomfist, Mauga, and Wrecking Ball

ruby ridge
#

THATS WHY SHE HATES TALON

#

And Doomfist specifically

peak escarp
#

my conspiracy take is that Vendetta is reminding us of Antonio so that when he shows up in the Retribution remake they're definitely working on, people won't be confused

hushed jetty
#

six that is copium and you know it 😭

peak escarp
#

trust

#

Retribution will return

#

not copium, faith

keen grotto
#

is orisa an omnic in any way shape or form cause someone keeps trying to argue me on it. they said shes an r15 or something?? and a refurbished omnic

wise grotto
#

She’s a reprogrammed 0r15 model I believe
Shes not technically an omnic i believe cause she lacks the free will iris granted many of them

keen summit
#

Is an iphone built from multiple iphones and other parts to upgrade it, still an iphone

keen grotto
#

True

keen summit
#

Shes not sentient tho

#

If thats what u mean

keen grotto
#

Yeah they were arguing that she was

keen summit
#

Shes very well programmed

keen grotto
#

And i was saying shes kind of not because shes not sentient, same as echo

#

they also argued echo was also an omnic

keen summit
#

But she for example needed an compassion module to be compassionate

keen grotto
#

even though she was made after the omnic crisis iirc

keen grotto
#

echo isnt an omnic either right

keen summit
#

And not in an omnium

keen summit
#

Omnic is basically a brand like iphone

#

If an robot is made in an omnium, theyre an omnic

#

If not, they're not

#

Orisa is an odd case as she's made off omnics + extras

fallow mantle
#

When they released Echo, the blogpost said she was an Omnic but I don't know if they've ever called her one since 💀

keen summit
#

Shes technically not

fallow mantle
#

yeah, she's always referred to as a robot

fallow mantle
keen summit
#

Refer to my iphone dilemma

fallow mantle
#

Just adding additional info

hushed jetty
#

omnic is both a collective descriptor for the game's robot characters and also an in-universe term for the robots created by Omnica in an omnium (or by Anubis during the omnic crisis)

#

so echo isnt an omnic and i guess neither is orisa but theyre often lumped in there

fallow mantle
#

i found it!

hushed jetty
#

i guess bastion isnt an omnic either... because his model was made by Ironclad... unless they also count?

fallow mantle
#

I would like a new omnic hero pls 😔

#

bastion is an omnic

hushed jetty
#

do the robots designed by Ironclad count as omnics

peak escarp
#

Bastion is an omnic

hushed jetty
#

because he's sentient?

sweet briar
#

Do we know who made dooms gauntlet? I can't remember, however vendettas kit/armor color scheme is the exact same as dooms tech so im thinking they have similar origin, both the sword and the gauntlet are capable of immense damage evidently

peak escarp
#

yes

#

the original Doomfist gauntlet was made by the first Doomfist

sweet briar
#

hm, wonder if it was just a style choice to show shes a bad guy

#

that would suck though, it looks very intentional

peak escarp
#

the current gauntlet was improved upon by Akande - his family owns a cybernetics company

#

Vendetta's powers dont look related

sweet briar
#

The design is extremely similar, plus she has ties to talon given who her father was and what happened

#

maybe doom manipulated her following the assassination into being an operative of some sort, similar to how they got widow or something

#

bit of a reach but i think its plausible at least

peak escarp
#

all we know about her is that she is Antonio's daughter, and she's a Colosseum champion

#

no indication of ties to Talon beyond that

sweet briar
#

I know, just speculating based on the cinematic

#

shes also refers to "they" and "us" at the end, seemingly in reference to the operatives that killed antonio

#

not sure who the us is, considering the only connection we know she had is dead

#

sorry, never references "they" but does say us still

peak escarp
#

"us" is her and her father

foggy crescent
#

So we gonna get retribution back for the new hero ?

peak escarp
#

🤞

foggy crescent
#

IVR PRAYED FOR TIMES LIKE THIS

#

PLS BRING BACK THE BEST EVENT IN OW HISTORY

peak escarp
#

they did say it needed to be remade for the OW2 engine

foggy crescent
#

idc what it takes

#

I want my gamemodes back 😭

twilit patrol
#

I miss Retribution sm

fallow mantle
#

best event 😭

elfin bane
#

so is the idea she’s a tank now

#

just the way she used her sword as a shield a ton in the trailer

wise grotto
#

All things said so far point to her being a damage character

digital linden
#

i think shes gonna be a pseudo-tank but be in the damage role

wise grotto
#

I mean any mellee dps was bound to be a pseudo tank

digital linden
#

yup

keen summit
#

I think vandetta and haz wull be great friends in game

meager geyser
#

Can't wait to play as her

eternal forum
#

so i saw someone saying that ram's story was rushed to introduce more irrelevant heroes to the story, but as far as i know ram's story hasn't even happened right? is he just clueless?

median orchid
#

Crazy Gametheory: Maybe Vendetta forms a squad with the other oddball heroes: I:E Freja and Ilari to fight against talon and Overwatch. Maybe she could team up with the Phreaks too to give them something to do as well.

wise grotto
#

Illiari has literally no reason to fight either

And freja is employed my Maximillian currently

#

She’s more likely gonna plan things from a distance before she can actually enact her revenge

peak escarp
#

the suspense of "who is the leader of Null Sector?" was ruined by releasing him before the Invasion missions

glass trench
azure flint
#

what if vendetta has beef with overwatch first but then talon joins the mix and starts having beef with her also

#

and it results in them both fighting her and a big ass war breaks out

#

blizzards 2026 lore plan

keen summit
#

and doom gets his way

elfin bane
#

she’s so cool looking

#

like oh my gosh

#

they cooked

#

i love her hair

#

and eye makeup

keen summit
#

i just wish they kept the helmet

azure flint
#

hero has to be conventionally attractive

#

helmet didn't make the cut

keen summit
#

You can be both

#

Look at pharah

#

I just hope they only did no helmet for trailer for emotion

vast mortar
#

i saw beef with blackwatch in her flashback about her dad

azure flint
#

well blackwatch was like the black ops of ow so

#

by extension she should have beef with current ow

#

since cass and genji are apart of it

#

oh then we can tie it around to talon by saying reaper and moira are part of it so she hates talon too

#

ez

peak escarp
#

she wouldn't know that Moira is with Talon or that Reaper is Reyes

wise grotto
spare fox
#

So, recapping to spin my wheels for theory-crafting
Antonio was a target of Blackwatch, under Antonio, the Oslo bombing occurred, triggering Blackwatch to target Talon/Antonio. Retribution event then triggered.
Reyes was supposed to arrest him, but killed him instead
Viali took Antonio's place. It was under Viali assumedly that Reyes started working for Talon. Viali was in charge during the fall of overwatch.

#

Then Doomfist killed Viali and took over from there

#

We can assume but it's not certain, that Reaper, Moira, and Widowmaker are all "Viali hires"
And IF Antonio's daughter is seeking retribution for Antonio's death - Viali took over after - she might have an extra bone to pick with his hires...

marble charm
azure flint
#

now im really interested to see if that doom leak comes true

peak escarp
#

I really hope not

#

it sounded really bad

ember hemlock
#

I'm actually so excited to see more of the new hero. I absolutely love her lore already, especially that it actually ties into overwatch unlike some new characters we've seen

wise grotto
azure flint
#

sombra and vendetta come across each other

quartz rampart
#

Looks like the leaker wasn't wrong winStare , im not happy but who knows. Gonna wait and see when more of her lore gets released

quartz rampart
edgy relic
#

First of all, I think it's a colossal failure that Blizzard "accidentally" lost the ability for the game to run the old Archives missions when changing the engine. They ported over the maps, animations, sounds, and the playable characters, so how is a game mode so hard to port over? They just didn't care enough to make the porting of Archives content work properly.

Secondly, if Blizzard ever did manage to bring back the Archives missions, specifically Retribution, they would run into a possible continuity snarl. During his time with Blackwatch, Cole Cassidy was canonically going by the name Jesse McCree. No one really knew that his real name was Cole Cassidy, because he was hiding from it. He hadn't used his real name since before he first met Ashe. Moira, Genji, and Reyes all have at least one line where they refer to "McCree" by name in that mission.

If they somehow brought back Retribution, they would either have to honor canon by allowing the characters to speak their original lines saying "McCree" and "Jesse" (such as "McCree's instincts are, as ever, unimpeachable." and "You got fired from your cover job, Jesse."), or keep those lines silent, and lose out on some of the witty banter. Or worse, they would have to violate the canon and have Keith, Genevieve, and Gaku re-record those lines while using Cassidy's real name. ("Cassidy's instincts..." and "You got fired from your cover job, Cole.") This would go against the already established canon if they did so.

peak escarp
#

they would retcon his name

#

they basically already have

#

Ashe calls him Cassidy, despite not having any reason to know he's not going by Jesse anymore

wise grotto
# edgy relic First of all, I think it's a colossal failure that Blizzard "accidentally" lost ...

It’s currently already a retconned name in everything else and
They’d have to remake the entire mode and they probably never got to that cause blizzard didn’t see it as important enough to redo everything for those missions from the ground up hence why they didn’t
If they never properly ported the rest of the entire game over it probably wouldn’t work either so “accidentally” isn’t the word there they just haven’t set it up yet

Also this is blizzard spaghetti code of course there’s gonna be some random thing that was built barelt working on the og code

edgy relic
#

The Rialto, Havana, and King's Row maps were ported over, so porting over the "Mission" versions of those maps shouldn't be an issue. Sound files are sound files. Is it the programming of the purple Null Sector bots and the Talon Operative bots that doesn't work? (Speaking of which, why doesn't Mauga have a Talon skin?)

edgy relic
# peak escarp they would retcon his name

But there was a whole thing about Cassidy "coming out" and throwing his "McCree" name away. Saying that he never went by the name McCree is disingenuous to his personal journey.

peak escarp
#

yes

#

and they've completely given up on that

edgy relic
#

Lame.

peak escarp
#

because they don't want to use that name anymore

#

not even for times where it would make sense

edgy relic
peak escarp
#

probably

edgy relic
#

(The Ashe chapter book)

wise grotto
#

Yea they probably would do both to

peak escarp
#

the international versions use Cole Cassidy iirc

edgy relic
#

Would they have Jennifer Hale re-record the entire audiobook?

wise grotto
#

They’d rather cut all ties to the POS that of was named after

peak escarp
#

yep

wise grotto
edgy relic
#

I can separate the real person from the character and his lore.

#

That's all I can think of.

#

I mean, there's old comics.

#

But comics are easier to update.

peak escarp
#

unfortunately, some of his victims are on the dev team and they would rather not be reminded of him

wise grotto
#

And yea nobody wants to continue honouring the dude who did horrible shit to them

edgy relic
#

Still sucks that it means retconning instead of keeping it as a false alias he (the character) used for a number of years.

peak escarp
#

agreed

#

but oh well

wise grotto
#

On one hand yea
On the other hand it’s a massively better thing for the people who have to deal with seeing the name forever to maybe not have to actively work the name into things again

edgy relic
#

I guess that was just a BS "excuse plot" they came up with at the time to handwave it away, but now they want to pretend like he never changed his name to Jesse McCree ever. Which would mean that he wasn't really hiding by running away with Ashe, joining the Deadlock Rebels/Gang, and then being pressured into joining Overwatch/Blackwatch.

peak escarp
#

we don't really know if he was hiding

edgy relic
#

Anyone who knew his real name and his past could have found him if he never changed his name to an alias.

peak escarp
#

it was never explained

wise grotto
#

The og team thought up a mediocre cover story and then eventually realized the mistake and just retconned it fully is kinda how it went

edgy relic
#

The whole reason he stopped using the McCree alias and went back to his real name was because he wanted to help Overwatch again - recruite Pharah, Zarya, Hana, Baptiste, and I think someone else I'm forgetting.

peak escarp
#

just them

wise grotto
#

One chapter there’s 4 big good guys and suddenly there was 3

edgy relic
#

That sort of thing should be caught early on, before unveiling the IP to the public.

#

"Are any of these characters based on a real person with any chance of being a problem later?"

#

Hmm.

peak escarp
#

keep in mind, this was back in 2014 before anyone really thought about the potential negatives of naming characters after real people

#

it's only safe to name things after people if they're dead

wise grotto
winter cloud
#

question i wasnt playing ow2 when blackwatch or smthn was around but why is everyone saying in La Lupa’s trailer her father was the person everyone killed during blackwatch

peak escarp
#

correct

azure flint
#

wat

#

no her father was some kind of criminal that landed under blackwatchs radar

#

the plan was for ow to bring him in but reaper/reyes accidentally killed him

#

cuz he couldnt control his anger or wtv

peak escarp
#

not just "some criminal"

azure flint
#

right sorry

#

his name was antonio and he was vendettas father

#

and she wants revenge for his death probably

spare fox
#

Yeah and it was no accident when
Reyes killed him. He was supposed to bring him in...

#

I've been busy since about 30 min after the trailer drop, what did I miss?

#

Everyone's saying she's Antonio's adoptive daughter? That's confirmed?

azure flint
#

no i think actual daughter

meager geyser
#

She is confirmed to be Antonios's daughter

#

No idea if adopted tho

azure flint
#

i mean she could be adopted but who knows

#

we just know shes the daughter of antonio rn

#

and he trained her when she was young

spare fox
#

Right because people are really running wild with this "leak" like it's all 100%

azure flint
#

wait lowk reading the leak again now

#

is kinda convincing

#

it mentions how she rips off dooms arm and throws him out of a window

spare fox
#

My take on leaks: sometimes they have grains of truth but the leaker has no really idea about overwatch lore so it can come across as totally wild

azure flint
#

so it'd be like a parallel of how antonio died

#

i wouldn't put it past blizzard to do smth like that

spare fox
#

I've said it before, but we got Zero Hour leaked as "young Genji saves Mei" and Ashe was leaked as a "biker hero with some kind of biker gang on her vest"

#

Like... yes but no

azure flint
#

we will just have to see

#

since her trial is next wednesday her comic could come out any day now

peak escarp
spare fox
azure flint
#

i am not a writer so excuse me but it sounds decent for me but it could be different for you

#

i just think a fight between her and doom would be cool

#

and would kinda be an ego check of some sorts for doom

spare fox
#

I mean, I've taken writing classes and workshops and such, what we have is a summary again that may or may not be true, it depends on execution totally

#

Like we could summarize anything in "leak" language and it sounds horrible

#

"Mei's neice comes to earth from outer space"

#

"Freya's an overwatch agent who works with Max to track down overwatch"

azure flint
#

well said

spare fox
#

"Hazard is weird turtle guy"

peak escarp
#

just the idea of an ordinary, non-enhanced woman gladiator ripping the arm off a cyborg martial artist... it's laughable to me

#

in what universe is she strong enough to do that?

#

Mauga couldn't beat him

azure flint
#

or she cuts his arm off thor style

#

cinema

peak escarp
#

I can barely tell what's going on in that gif

edgy meadow
#

my guess

#

the leak is real but badly worded

#

the grammar is not the best out of the original message we have

#

but the information seems to fit

#

so it might play out that way but it might also be skipping out on information or just summarizing what happened without explaining how it got there

median orchid
#

So ... Is this a hint towards a custcene? (PVE cope) Or is it in refrence to a animated short OR a comic for Vendatta (Like the originstory ones new heroes usually get)

fallow mantle
keen summit
edgy meadow
#

pretty much

edgy meadow
edgy meadow
sturdy sierra
#

I'm here on the 'game info' tab on the Blizzard website, and I'm unsure which video I should watch first

#

What would make the most sense storyline wise?

opaque tundra
#

Watching Genesis is a good starter for getting the gist of the Omnic crisis

sturdy sierra
opaque trench
#

What class y’all think Vendetta is

fossil wren
#

Vendetta reveal as been so funny because many people just discovered the Archives missions and their reactions are so funny, I've seen a lot of people discover that Reaper had a normal voice and appearance or that he killed Vendetta father

fallow mantle
#

I came up with a random theory she can swap between tank and dmg, or that they're seeing if people want her to be tank or dps then will make her whichever one 💀

robust palm
opaque trench
#

Dang I was betting on tank

worthy rose
#

does this mean that widow will be vendetta's mother

#

lore wise she is right

robust palm
#

That'll be crazy

worthy rose
#

no like think about it

#

the guy was killed by blackwatch

#

and his wife (widow) was poisoned and manipulated to turn into widow after being a ballerina

#

highkey

#

doesn't that make that her mother

#

also

#

shes a loba copy

peak escarp
#

Widowmaker's husband Gerard Lacroix was a member of Blackwatch that she was programmed to kill

#

Vendetta's father Antonio Bartalotti was a Talon kingpin that Blackwatch targeted after Antonio killed Dr. Liao in the Oslo bombing

rugged drift
#

Can somebody explain the Iris to me? I know that it’s like some omnic or AI or smth that like ascended or smth, but that’s about it.

Also, is there a lore reason why Zenyatta floats? He’s like the only one that has ever been shown floating. Is he just like a different make of omnic that floats, or is it related to the Iris?

azure flint
#

the iris is basically omnic jesus

fossil wren
fossil wren
# rugged drift Can somebody explain the Iris to me? I know that it’s like some omnic or AI or s...

The iris is an energetic anomaly in nepal formed after the sacrifice of Aurora that gave consciousness to the omnics, The shambali monks believe that after her sacrifice Aurora transcended existence and she reached a higher level (the iris), They believe that humans and omnics can reach that state, and that in the iris all beings are one, In simple terms the iris could be considered the equivalent of the Christian heaven or the concept of the afterlife

grand wedge
#

Agree what said above, but not the last sentence

#

This is the Iris, it's what left after Aurora sacrificed herself, and is an anomaly because science can't explain that phenomenon.

image.png
spare fox
#

IOW, we hear a lot about what the Iris is from various characters, but we as an audience don't actually know - we just have the word of a few characters (possibly unreliable)

#

Which might be by design, as different people have different explanations of what a soul is and where it comes from

grand wedge
#

Factually, the anomaly that stayed after the awakening is the Iris. Spiritually speaking, it's up to interpretation of the individuals, and the Shambali put the iris in the middle of their faith.

wise grotto
#

We also have the questionable canon or not fact that sigmas personally met the iris

spare fox
#

There is "that music" he heard after his black hole incident, and the music that omnics heard upon awakening

wise grotto
#

true but he namedrops the iris to zen is the specific mayve canon part

spare fox
#

yup that's what I'm referring to

worthy rose
white cobalt
#

https://fixupx.com/westofhouse/status/1990950142388982024

Michael Chu 瞿華明 (@westofhouse)

I think we re-recorded all of Reyes’s VO to replace all the lines for the game mode. It’s not just the filter, Keith does a different performance for all the Reyes vs. Reaper stuff (see Uprising). Also a significant chunk of new VO for Genji’s angrier Blackwatch-era personality.

Quoting Kevado (Reinhillionaire) (@KevadoX)
︀
I love how Reaper has no edgy voice filter in this, I kinda wish the actual skin would just talk like this it's so funny. There's a video of all his voice lines for this skin just being his voice actor without the filter but it was never implemented and it's so sad 😭

**💬 18 🔁 72 ❤️ 1.2K 👁️ 49.8K **

FixupX ·
mossy vale
peak escarp
ivory lance
#

Hey guys who’s your favourite character back story? Mines torb

sudden wolf
#

blizzard will gnash and thrash and say there is no magic but that's all the iris is

fossil wren
north ridge
robust palm
ionic summit
keen summit
meager geyser
grand wedge
#

Yeah, it seems that according to them (T4), spiritual powers are not magical …

wise grotto
#

I mean technically it isn’t magic it’s just spiritual shit
So on a technicality

spare fox
#

No, it's been confirmed - recently with Wuyang - that it's all technology. There is no magic in overwatch and it's not a retcon

#

It's more like y'all will gnash and thrash and say there IS magic just to go GOTCHA at blizzard 😩

wise grotto
sudden wolf
spare fox
#

It's technology. It hasn't been explained (yet) in the narrative

#

The narrative designer said it's not magic

sudden wolf
#

ooohhhh okay so the shrine maiden from the country with a very spiritual religion is actually using technology to manifest a very well-known shrine spirit and also to throw ofuda (paper tags imbued with divine power) and heal people

#

man why didn't i think about that

spare fox
#

Why does it have to be magic?

#

Why are you so insistent that it is magic?

sudden wolf
#

...literally what about that is even implied to be technology even a little bit outside of blizzard saying "no guys trust it's not magic" when all of the subtext and cultural context very very very heavily implies it is magic or divinity

#

why are you so insistent that it is technology because blizzard said so when nothing about the in-game application says technology at all?

spare fox
#

In a world where there are super soldiers and genetically modified people turning into voids and then rearranging their particles, creating objects out of nothing but light... why does the kitsune HAVE TO be magic?

sudden wolf
#

because kiriko is not a hardlight technician like lightweaver or symmetra, she has 0 background in engineering or technology. she's literally a like 20 year old who has been trained to use kunai and is a shrine maiden

#

it's obviously magic 😭

spare fox
sudden wolf
#

????

#

i'm not hating blizzard here there are way better reasons to hate blizzard. i am a writer myself, a writer breaking their own rules and then saying (outside of the narrative) "wait i promise this doesn't break the rules" doesn't mean it isn't still breaking their rules

#

until they explain in-lore how it is an application of technology, it is undeniably magic or at least "spiritual energy" lol

spare fox
#

They're not breaking their own rules

#

Just because it appears to be magic to you doesn't mean it's not technology

sudden wolf
#

"we don't use magic"
[adds character that uses magic]

#

girl goodbye

#

is blizzard paying you to defend their bad character

spare fox
#

But there is no magic

sudden wolf
#

outside of the magic vs technology debate kiriko's entire existence retcons and nullifies the shimada bros' backstory

#

she's too young to have trained with them yet somehow she did

#

she's just a shitty character and you don't have to defend her

spare fox
#

I'm not defending her? You're the one harping on grasping at every little thing to gotcha the writers for some reason

sudden wolf
#

??????

#

"grasping at every little thing" and the thing is a shrine maiden using spirit powers in the game that says they don't use magic

#

that's not a little thing

#

the writers can say whatever they want but it means nothing until it is actually explained in their narrative

#

i can say that my story takes place in western massachusetts as its writer and that won't change the fact that it does not, actually, take place in western massachusetts because my own narrative disproves that

spare fox
#

"The writers can say whatever they want but I'm gonna plug my ears and go NAH NAH NAH THEY'RE WRONG UNTIL THEY ADMIT I'M RIGHT"

sudden wolf
#

that's what's happening here

#

Bro

spare fox
#

That's the argument you're using

sudden wolf
#

you're stupid

#

goodbye

spare fox
#

Nah

#

Both michael chu and joshi zhang said it's not magic
Technology that you don't understand isn't magic

sudden wolf
#

"the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces."

#

that is exactly what kiriko does and it will be until they add something in their narrative (and not outside of it) that proves she is using technology. like i said before, writers can say anything, but just talk doesn't walk if it isn't being included in your lore/narrative

#

also can we explain, outside of the whole magic bit, how she was training with the shimada bros despite being 10 years younger than them

#

getting my synthesis points on my thesis, another show i have recently gotten into (with terrible writing) does this constantly. the showrunner writes a terrible plot with holes, people criticize the holes, she comes out on twitter and makes a "statement" (that usually doesn't really amend the holes) trying to fix her own narrative outside of the narrative

#

it just doesn't work like that

spare fox
sudden wolf
#

are you reading what im saying

#

the writer saying this (also about wuyang and not kiriko, the subject) outside of their game does not make it more true in-game. in wuyang's case, sure, they took the steps to show in his design and weapon that he is using technology

#

kiriko does not have that

spare fox
#

Do you even read what you're saying? In your cognitive dissonance and bending of logic to fit your own personal weird vendetta against a fictional character, you're saying that the writers are wrong about a character and world they wrote because you said so

sudden wolf
#

cognitive dissonance im crine

spare fox
#

And I have no defense for kiriko's age - it doesn't add up with the amount of time between sojiro's death and the events of the current timeline - she should be at least 5 years older

sudden wolf
#

i don't have a vendetta against kiriko she is demonstrably a bad character

#

again

#

for the third time

#

i AM a writer so bad writing like that irks me

#

ans again

#

for the third time

#

A writer coming out and saying something about their work does not amend the mistake made in the work. The writing has to talk, not the writer, and here, the writing does not talk

spare fox
#

You don't have to like it, but you are twisting facts to justify why you don't like it

sudden wolf
#

i am not twisting a single fact at all that the game has shown us

#

i do not care about what the writers say because writers can say anything. their job is WRITING it into the story, not coming out in an interview to cover their own bad writing lol

spare fox
#

And sitting there giving a textbook explanation of the ins and outs of how a sci fi machination works would be riveting writing sure 🙄

sudden wolf
#

you see how in wuyang's design he has gauntlets and a staff that obviously has technological aspects

#

And they explained it in his backstory

spare fox
#

It's not a story about the science, it's about the characters. They don't explain hard light or mercy's healing or reaper turning into a wraith either

sudden wolf
#

Kiriko does not have that

#

at all

#

even a little bit

spare fox
#

Not yet.. it's an ongoing narrative

sudden wolf
#

Even a "she stole hardlight technology and turned it into a kitsune" would be a better and more functional explanation (takes a single sentence to explain in a lore short) than what we got

#

even the shimada bros really don't have a good explanation for their shit and that's a narrative that's been going on for almost 10 years

spare fox
#

Because within the frame of the story, we're not privy to that information. It hasn't come up yet because no one within the narrative has had to ask it

sudden wolf
#

So it is the fault of the narrative because other technological things have been explained right off the bat

#

people ask why widow's skin is purple but not why the teenager is capable of summoning a kitsune spirit and throwing healing ofuda

#

Great in-world logic

spare fox
#

Yet you're accepting of slowing down a heart rate resulting in a charcter turning blue, but not a character wielding tech that manifests as healing (something other characters have) and a mythical creature made of light

#

Rein/Brig's shield aren't explained either but since it appears hard-light adjacent, that's accepted as a reasonable answer even though we're never told they can wield hard light (or adjacent)

#

The dragons/kitsune are similar. It's reasonable to assume they're related to, if not actual hard light tech

silent rose
#

Also, aside from this very interesting conversation, I had a question:

is Vendetta’s name REALLY Vendetta Bartalotti? That’s her actual first name?

spare fox
#

Yeah I would think that hard light architects create or design it, but once it's created, it can be used by anyone - like any engineered product

spare fox
silent rose
silent rose
spare fox
silent rose
sudden wolf
#

i will suspend my disbelief for widowmaker because they have given an explanation (in their own story) that fits their lore, kiriko has not been explained in the story in the, what, 3 years she's been in the game now?

meager geyser
sudden wolf
#

rein/brig shield makes sense because, again, there is framework surrounding it. they are all engineers (at least the lindholms), hardlight exists, and the designs all point to it being technology. kiriko's design and background does NOT indicate technology, but magic. if she was an engineer, it would still be a shaky explanation, but one i could maybe accept. i do not accept that the japanese shrine maiden who calls on a well-known spirit and uses well-known spirit tags is somehow actually using technology

meager geyser
#

Genji and Hanzo might be explainable with technology, but even if you try to pretend that Kiriko just uses super advanced holograms, that have let her teleport at the age of 7, and heal people with super technologically advanced papers (as shown in her story video), they literally tell you in your face that's it's fox spirit MAGIC

spare fox
#

I can't argue with the circular logic going on with you. I've given explanation and you just throw it back with "nuh uh the writers are wrong" like just stay mad about it I guess

sudden wolf
#

a very very very easy fix to this would be giving kiriko some kind of optical lens (or glasses/a visor to make it obvious from a design standpoint) that makes her beliefs or imagination or ideas manifest as hardlight creations

#

that she robbed off sym or lightweaver or some other vishkar/hardlight technician

sudden wolf
#

if you as a writer have to come out and make a statement defending an aspect of your lore like this outside of your story, it is bad writing, simple as that

#

like the whole community is always fighting but can somehow almost all agree that kiriko breaks the "no magic" rule lolol

spare fox
sudden wolf
#

please read

#

please read 😭😭😭

spare fox
#

I did. That's literally what you're saying

#

Ok kiriko is an awful character and the writers have no idea what they're doing. Now what? What's your point?

sudden wolf
#

it's not that the writers are wrong it's that writers SHOULD NOT be making retroactive changes to their story through interviews or statements

spare fox
#

They're not, but go on thinking that ig

sudden wolf
#

and they have not ever given an explanation for why kiriko functions that way

#

holy shit you are so annoying 😭😭😭

spare fox
#

Ok and?

sudden wolf
#

of course the one person in the community who does not believe kiriko is magic has this smug ass attitude to defend it looool

fallow mantle
#

Vendetta gameplay trailer

spare fox
#

Yup I'm the only person

fallow mantle
#

Damage hero

sudden wolf
spare fox
#

K

sudden wolf
#

let me ask overwatch serious too

spare fox
#

Oh wow, a bunch of randos on the internet will sure show me how I'm wrong 🙃

fallow mantle
#

Gosh, spookycakes. You're the most wrong ever

#

(I have no idea what is going on)

spare fox
#

Yup. I'm apparently dickriding blizzard bc I'm not rejecting what the writers say about their own character

#

Obviously

sudden wolf
#

oh my god this is the exact smug attitude i was talking about

#

holy obnoxiously avoiding the actual point made

spare fox
#

Must be awful for you

sudden wolf
meager geyser
sudden wolf
#

because, you know, teleporting from a young age and summoning a kitsune spirit is very technological

#

and throwing spirit tags to heal people

#

with no in-lore explanation aside from the writers saying "guys wait we didn't break our rules it's not magic [no further explanation]" when everything else demonstrated by the character points to magic

meager geyser
sudden wolf
spare fox
sudden wolf
#

the only interviews that they've ever mentioned kiriko in:

#

once, someone asked how the shimada bros function if not through magic, and all michael chu said is "it's definitely not magic" (2017)

i will just copy/paste this one directly:
"in the AMA reddit of May 24, 2021 (https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/nk6uis/comment/gzb8bj2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 )I personally asked this question:

We know there is a lot of sci-fi charm in Overwatch, but has it often been difficult to explain some of the game’s techniques “scientifically”? For example, if the dragons of Hanzo and Genji are not “magic”, what could they be?

The answer from the art director Arnold Tsang :

Magic is a tricky word that means different things to different people. That being said, not everything in overwatch can or needs to be explained by technology (in my opinion)."

#

so in a very roundabout way he is saying that it is not technology (but he's not saying it's magic either because i imagine that's a big no-no)

#

and neither of these even address kiriko herself who is worse about this than both hanzo and genji combined

meager geyser
sudden wolf
#

kiriko did not have to be a shrine maiden, she could've functioned exactly the same in-game and played a more interesting role in-lore if they just did anything else with her

#

make her ofuda and the kitsune drones and say she's an independent "good" hacker, a counterpart to sombra as mercy is to moira, who uses her technology to assist overwatch and its efforts where she sees fit. this would also allow them to make her the same neutral good character who isn't firmly on one side without making her as horrifically obnoxious as she is

#

then that ALSO would've supported more iris lore and revelations because that ties into like 5 different aspects of overwatch lore that could be explored far more than they are

meager geyser
sudden wolf
#

i think you're probably right

#

even tracer is kind of ehhhh lorewise but at least thought was very clearly given to her design and lore to make it work (or work enough that you can suspend your disbelief and go with it)

jagged spade
#

laxalus get a job

wraith cedar
#

💀

elfin bane
heady cloak
#

cant be any taller than 5'1

sudden wolf
#

💯

sudden wolf
heady cloak
sudden wolf
uneven ruin
#

Sci fi donuts

elfin bane
#

it’s spirits tho not magic

#

i do agree it’s still a little unexplained

#

but so were the hanzo and genjis dragons they were just more excusable as hard light/ weapons

spare fox
#

It's science, but it's not hard sci-fi so they don't need to explain anything other than "it's technology". Overwatch is and always has been "soft sci-fi," which means it's sci-fi that is character-driven rather than science-driven

heady cloak
#

idk I feel like its pretty established kiri is j poorly written with the whole

#

"I trained with genji and hanzo but im only 20" shtick

#

like they just didnt try w her story lmao

elfin bane
#

woah i saw the gameplay trailer

#

she looks fun

#

the animations look really good

peak escarp
#

I don't know why everyone hates on Kiriko's story so much

#

nowhere does it say she was the same age as the brothers when she trained with them

#

the art clearly shows her significantly youngers

#

she should be a little older because the math doesn't add up in her backstory, but she'd still be younger than the brothers by a lot

spare fox
#

Right and a miscalculation in the age/ number of years apparently = worst writing ever and nothing makes sense about her 🙄

#

They're just mad she gets so many skins, like if they point out this stuff she'll stop being popular or something

peak escarp
#

I'm more annoyed by the Simian Research Group on Horizon Lunar Colony deciding to experiment on someone's pet hamster for no reason

#

you study APES, Harold

#

what are you doing to that hamster

spare fox
#

Ugh Wrecking Ball... now that was a mistake of hero. Hell "he shouldn't even exist, he's a FOURTEEN-year-old hamster"!!!!!!

peak escarp
#

(I know that's not exactly correct but it still bugs me)

#

well, to be fair, gorillas on average only live to be about 30, so Winston would be an old man if he wasn't genetically enhanced

spare fox
#

if they erased Ball from the game and lore tomorrow I'd be irl reenacting that "oh no... anyway..." gif I'm too lazy to go find rn

#

But I'm not going to sit and argue about how the writers are wrong and his lore makes no sense bc I strongly dislike the hero in every way