lore-discussion

[fossil wren]

Moira wouldn't give a shit

Freja probably wouldn't give a shit either

Hanzo too

Widowmaker too

Roadhog is a fucking psychopath come on

Genji is more likely as words of affirmation than all of the above, While this is not Lore these are the only observations I would make

[remote brook]

roadhog is loweky bad

if ykyk

am i right or am i right

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-crazy-laugh-tounge-tounge-out-shakes-head-gif-13569916

[atomic escarp]

hell yes twin

[remote brook]

https://tenor.com/view/tunger-selfie-mix-father-and-son-gif-11875756

[austere walrus]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[atomic escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/eyes-down-here-black-man-twerking-troll-squad-naked-dude-man-twerking-gif-9626330554517358494

[hasty niche]

why does juno say welcome to orbit

[worthy vault]

Maybe because she's from Mars

It's a big orbital raise from Mars I think

[peak escarp]

the orbital ray comes from her spacecraft, which is still in orbit

the landing pod she came down in was only part of it

[hasty niche]

it logically makes no sense

her enemy ult voice line makes sense because she says shes locking her satellites position above the battle

[elfin bane]

blud

it’s not that deep

when phara says “raining justice form above” she is not actually throwing down “justice” she’s throwing down rockets

it’s not meant to be taken literally

[peak escarp]

her spacecraft in orbit can be considered a satellite

an artificial body placed in orbit around the earth or moon or another planet in order to collect information or for communication.

[marble charm]

Pretty convenient that her satalittie Is always flying above the fight location 🤬 so unrealistic

Logically it makes no sense

[fossil wren]

Cassidy really needs a watch

[marble charm]

The April fools Cass ults are so fun

[fossil wren]

Its not high noon bro what the fuck 😭

[elfin bane]

lol

[fossil wren]

"Its past you bedtime"

[marble charm]

"It's 5:26"

[fossil wren]

“It’s a country minute shy of the devil’s lunchbreak.”

[fossil wren]

I genuinely don't get the reference of this if there is one

[spare fox]

It's just poking fun of American southern idiomatic expressions, it's not a specific reference

[grizzled barn]

Is their lore on why genji is the sexually arousing man ever

[vapid tusk]

"You will suffer as I‚ Ramattra have sufferedǃ Your torment will outlast the starsǃ When the universe dwindles into dust‚ there you will be‚ still suffering as I have suffered․"

[hasty niche]

Welcome to orbit makes significantly less sense than pharah enforcing justice from above

[elfin bane]

other voice lines also don’t make sense so please just drop it

[hasty niche]

It’s the one voice line which confuses me

[elfin bane]

k

[hasty niche]

Can I not ask why her ult voice line makes no sense in the lore channel

[rare trail]

lowkey i agree

welcome to orbit is kinda lazy "space stuff"

[spare fox]

It doesn't have to make sense, just let you know what's going on in game. In-game isn't canon

[rare trail]

well yeah

but that doesnt make it not lazy

[hasty niche]

I like astronomy and subsequently junos background however welcome to orbit doesn’t make any sense so I was wondering if there was a canon reason she says that

[rare trail]

i dont think there is

[spare fox]

I agree I don't think there is, they (devs) probably wanted something distinct and friendly-sounding

[marble charm]

I mean I sorta saw it as a joke on an alien abduction

Its not entirely fitting of her character but

[marble charm]

Giant beam of light from space is how most media portray it

And if you got abducted by an alien they would be welcominging you to orbit

[fathom creek]

2hats viskars role on the story

I dont get it

[spare fox]

Tl;dr corrupt and unfettered capitalism where they have complete control of resources - material (hard light tech) and labor (hard light architects). They say they want to make a better, perfect world. In practice, it's messier than that.

[fallow mantle]

At least it's not 'Team up for special attack'

[rare trail]

team up for special attack is fire

[fallow mantle]

NOOOO

[rare trail]

meet your fate was so fucking good pmo that jts gone

[fallow mantle]

Wdym??? It's not gone?!?

Special attack is...(thankfully)

[rare trail]

wait what

[fallow mantle]

When orisa first came out I thought, and hoped, special attack was a placeholder line

Yeah meet your fate isn't gone?! Is it?!?

[rare trail]

CEASE your resistance

[rare trail]

i got it mixed in my head

meet your fate and cease youre resistance are both fire

[fallow mantle]

Cease your resistance was fire

[rare trail]

for real

[spare fox]

Soldiers winning so hard vs Winton rn

[worthy vault]

Agree

[cerulean falcon]

what happened to moira for her to be like what she is rn

and is she in talon?

[marble charm]

Yea

[winter path]

Can other players see your weapon charm?

[woven vine]

Did monkey or solider win? I had work

[stuck fossil]

Not really lore but I feel like this is the best channel to share it in. The VA for Cassidy is also the VA for Jotaro Kujo and Levi Ackerman! (If I remember correctly)

I know he also voices Jotaro but I'm not sure about Levi

[spare fox]

Soldiers won all the matches but a couple matches came pretty close. Monkee got 96 elims before getting eliminated at one point

[marble charm]

Was it just

Daddy with 11 kids

With an extra juiced up daddy

[rare trail]

uhh kinda

but winston only had to be killed once

[spare fox]

Kinda they made Winston in primal rage the whole time and huge

[marble charm]

Yea

[spare fox]

And soldiers were a team of 9 soldiers iirc and the team had a total of 100 lives

[marble charm]

I figured they'd give him extra health and damage than normal 1v11

But 1 life

[marble charm]

Oh I see

If I was the monkey I'd have won every round tbh

[spare fox]

Huge Winston kept getting stuck on doors so the soldiers were able to use that

[marble charm]

Oh was it

Normal maps

I like that version of dad vs kids

[spare fox]

Deathmatch maps

[marble charm]

Most of the ones in customs are on the workshop map

Ic

[past copper]

Honestly, shoulda had it 100 Genji’s vs 1 Winston. That would’ve been fair ground, bc of course the guys with guns will win

It’s not like a 60/40 type thing like it was when the Australian military fought wild emus

[woven vine]

Tysm and sadness I wanted monke to win

[river nexus]

.

[soft carbon]

EMU WAR

[winter path]

Is it even worth it to buy highlight intros on support characters when you barely ever get play of the game as sup?

[marble charm]

I mean it's up to you

They're technically free

If you only use white credits

[native current]

Who have the biggest kill count?

I can guess its maybe widow but its sounds too easy..

[keen summit]

do we count anubis controlled omnics

[winter path]

Does kiriko suzu still have knock back against enemies?

[native current]

I say to heroes cast in game

[keen summit]

no i meant

do we count killing anubis controlled omnics

[native current]

Hmm no
I mean Humans only humans who died by heroes from cast

(Im not omnicphobic😭 )

[keen summit]

reaper probs ngl

i dont think widow

just cause shes about taking care of important targets usually and doesnt go for collateral

from what we've seen reaper doesnt mind killing people from talon, collatoral etc

doom is also up there

and mauga

mauga might be even higher honestly than reaper

cuz reaper kills when its more convenient, or angy, mauga kills cuz its fun to him

[native current]

I Yes I forget that Mauga is psyhopath

[spare fox]

would you consider a hero being a part of the strike team means they have killed before?

[spare fox]

I made a tier list if anyone wants https://tiermaker.com/list/overwatch/overwatch-heroes-48403/5095709

I kinda started to fill it out but my brain doesn't want to work this morning

[elfin bane]

rember to only count awakened omnics as kills

[spare fox]

Yeah there's that

But there is some murkiness like, I guess Rein, Winston, Tracer probably have killed since they were members of the strike team

Then there's like Junkerqueen and Hanzo who probably have but there's no real confirmation either way

[pastel stirrup]

jq wears omnic scrap metal

[spare fox]

Yeah but are those awakened omnics? Or the remains of ones destroyed with the omnium?

We hear about "feral" omnics - are they awakened or not?

[pastel stirrup]

i think awakened

'feral' sounds like the equivalent of bastion in his cinematic

and that happened after he was awakened

[spare fox]

There has def been a soft retcon with the Junkers in regards to omnics anyway

After JQ it seems like

[pastel stirrup]

what's the retcon

[spare fox]

Well around 2016-17 they were all "scrap some bots!"

Now Junkrat is like interviewing them all silly-like

[pastel stirrup]

oh right

well voice interactions are non-canon specifically for stuff like this

[spare fox]

It's not a real retcon I think, just adding more to their characters

[pastel stirrup]

yh

[spare fox]

Yes but they are in-character still

[pastel stirrup]

yh it's basically like the heroes existing in a vacuum outside of the canon story

[spare fox]

I think it's more like "what if" they were put together to team up

[pastel stirrup]

yh that's a better way of putting it ig

[fossil wren]

Are we taking into account omnic characters kills before the awakening? (Ramattra, Bastion, Zenyatta)

[peak escarp]

based on evidence in The Last Bastion, Bastion may not have killed anyone

his drop pod failed to open and he never deployed properly

[marble charm]

Interesting point

[fossil wren]

Here is mine, There is no specific order

[peak escarp]

Hammond probably killed someone when he attacked Lucheng

the text is vague, but we all know he definitely would

also Sombra gunned down several guards during Infiltration, pretty sure they're dead

[fossil wren]

I forgot infiltration

I update it then

[peak escarp]

and both Tracer and Winston went on the Storm Rising mission, which was against Talon agents

so they had to kill them

[spare fox]

Junkrat and Roadhog killed a guy in Going Legit

[peak escarp]

oh yeah that too

[fossil wren]

I could put Zenyatta has probably killed, But his past is so vague and mysterious that I don't know honestly

[peak escarp]

the Suit

in A Better World, Symmetra says "you know I don't kill unless I have to" which implies she has killed in the past

[fossil wren]

Who has the most confirmed kills? Reaper?

[weary swift]

Junker queen has def killed more than 1 person, theres a whole arena map dedicated to junker town not to mention everything about her

[spare fox]

well, again, there are omnic parts and stuff around the arena but we don't know if they're from pre- or post-awakening, and if they are post-awakening, we don't exactly know what a "feral" omnic is

I'm sure people have died in the arena but it doesn't seem to be to the death in a lot of cases

I guess unless it's an execution like in Junkrat (and Roadhog's) case

however the junkers tend to be easily distracted by anything shiny so...

[hot cairn]

I love Illari being in the mass killing category despite her actual killing tendencies being completely normal/like other overwatch agents

[fossil wren]

illarri killed all the inti warriors

it wasnt her fault

[hot cairn]

I know lol she’s just not a actually murderous person tho

[fossil wren]

but

that counts

Many in that category are not necessarily bad people, but they still have many deaths to their names

[rare trail]

i dont get winston

o right storm rising

[rare trail]

idk abt kiri rein torb

especially so kiri like in her cinematic she didnt kill anyone when she def coudl have

and i dont think she killed anyone in her short story

[fossil wren]

that what i say we dont know yet

Kiriko definitely killed some members of the Hashimotos we just dont know yet

Torb participated in many Overwatch missions, Rein too

[rare trail]

why definitely

[fossil wren]

They are yakuzas, the damn mafia, not everyone can be scared like in her cinematic

[rare trail]

the hashimoto werent killed in dragons either iirc

theyre always jsut beat up until they give up

and kiriko isnt really the bloodthirsty type

[fossil wren]

where honor lives

hanzo killed members of the hashimoto

[rare trail]

hanzo is a darker char than kiri in general

[fossil wren]

kiri can kill too

[rare trail]

she never has been shown to

[fossil wren]

thats way i put her in probably but nothing confirmed

[rare trail]

yeah i dont agree with the probably

in everything we've seen her in she hasnt killed hashimoto or anyone when she easily could have

[native gulch]

Sombra, Junkrat, Kiriko, Ashe, Roadhog, and Hammond have defo killed people

Doc already mentioned Sombra gunning people down on screen
Hammond has zero regard for life and does (did?) mech battles, along with the Lucheng raid
No way the Deadlock Gang doesn’t have a kill count
I kind of doubt Kiriko’s doing the Batman shtick with the Hasimoto
Roadhog’s a whole mess of a character but whatever Mako used to do, it was violent
Junkrat’s Junkrat and he’s associated with Hog.

Also Freja just outright killed several people in her animation

[marble charm]

I agree with the idea of her having killed before but when do we see this?

I don't remember anything in the animation hinting she'd killed people

We saw her with a pistol but not firing it iirc

[elfin bane]

your probably right she has but because it wasn’t specifically stated or shown we can’t say she did

which is what the ram mytihc guy is saying

[rare trail]

yeah

you cant say she did i agree

my issue is that she is in the probably HAS killed someone just not onscreen tier

[native gulch]

She killed those two omnics?

[rare trail]

and i dont agree

[native gulch]

Like Freja’s just crushed people on screen

[marble charm]

I just rewatched her animation and nope, she shoots and ties up the 4 body guys with her crossbow and Bola, and crushes Max's car with a shipping container, but it doesn't really imply anyone was killed in that scene

[fossil wren]

She didn't kill Max's guards

She only destroyed his car

[fossil wren]

.

Updated ver

[fossil wren]

About Kiriko, we are talking about the same guys who have kidnapped her father, She's definitely not only in scaring those guys

[native gulch]

Coulda sworn she just up and killed them

[marble charm]

Nah she's standing on top of them after they're wrapped by the Bola

And the container lands on his car behind them

[fossil wren]

They're probably just unconscious

[rare trail]

her short tho

like she has been shown to not kill hashimoto before

[fossil wren]

I said she probably kills, but nothing has been shown yet

I don't know what the problem is with that

[native gulch]

Ignoring how the child threw an axe at someone’s head, I don’t think Kiri wanted to do that in front of her and her grandfather

[fossil wren]

Kiriko doesn't want to scare the innocent people of Kazenaka

[rare trail]

its not supported by the lore

kiriko had a lot of ways to kill the hashimoto goons there, she chose not to

[fossil wren]

Oh fuck Hazard trailer, The Helix agents he faced are definitely dead

To the top of the list

[fossil wren]

As I said, just because she doesn't kill on camera doesn't mean she hasn't killed

[marble charm]

Yea I don't really get

"Has probably killed but not confirmed" vibes

From kiriko

[rare trail]

i have never disagreed with that

the PROBABLY is my entire problem

[fossil wren]

Kiriko is a vigilante, she constantly faces the Yakuza who remember are criminals who can be scared once but will try to kill you most of the time

There's no reason for kiriko or yokai (As a group) to just let the Hashimotos escape all the time

[rare trail]

what

do you not understnad like the concept of not killing

you know that batman guy

theres like steps between letting someone escape and murder as well

[fossil wren]

That Batman guy arrests his enemies, he doesn't let them escape like Kiriko

[fossil wren]

In the case of the Hashimotos, considering their influence in Japan arresting them is a lost battle from the beginning

And letting them go only means they'll come back even more upset, and who's going to pay the price? Kiriko definitely won't, The common people will pay for it

[rare trail]

kiriko isnt the punisher gang

i think ur misunderstanding her character heavy

[fossil wren]

I'm not saying she's the punisher, but letting them go and just scaring them is definitely not the only thing she does

[native gulch]

Just because someone kills people doesn’t make them the punisher

While Kiri’s definitely not exactly eager to kill them she doesn’t seem the type to not do so. I doubt those kunai are just for show either

[rare trail]

yeah

shes been shown to hit their weapon depots and stuff

theres steps between murder and beating them up a little gang

shes never shown to and it doesnt fit her character to murder them

[native gulch]

I mean would it really be murder though they’re threatening her and everyone she loves

Ok maybe not her mother but regardless

[fossil wren]

Let's forget that they have kidnapped her father and that's how they forced her mother to work for them

[native gulch]

I meant their lives but yes

[rare trail]

yeah

murder isnt conditional on whether the victim is a bad guy or not gang

[fossil wren]

Kill them Kiriko

Kill them all

[native gulch]

That, however, would be punisher

[fossil wren]

Doesnt matter kill them

[native gulch]

Do gotta wonder how many of them are just impoverished and trying to get by

Kinda doubt it’s all that many of them

It’s organized crime after all

[fossil wren]

Who cares? kill them all

[native gulch]

Kinda want a code of violence cover art with a speech bubble edited onto it for this

[fossil wren]

They will all die

I think it's pretty obvious I'm joking anyway

[native gulch]

Yes yes obviously

[lone summit]

Heres something funny about ram
Hes all high and mighty about omnics pushing past their programming n shit
But he was literally made to be a murder-bot, and is still a murder-bot

[fossil wren]

I'm going to pretend I didn't read that

[lone summit]

He killed then
And he still kills now

This mf rammatra really acting so butthurt about being hated cuz of the omnics crisis but then turns around and essentially makes his own omnic crisis

[rare trail]

for real

[peak escarp]

Ramattra is a hypocrite

[shy dagger]

His cause and motivations are just but his execution is…questionable let’s say..

[marble charm]

We love multidimensional characters 😝

I love it when people discover that characters are characters

And don't follow logic

[toxic kindle]

Yeah that is his schtick, he's probably aware of the fact that what he's doing is hypocritical but he's an "the end justifies the means" kind of character so he probably does not care.

[shy dagger]

Idk if you would call this being “multidimensional” or simply a lack of consistency

[marble charm]

No I would call it

Characters being more than just good or bad

It's okay for a character to be a hypocrit

Especially ones that are radicalized

It's a very very common trope actually

[toxic kindle]

Wait, isn't it the case that Ramattra working with Talon? The same Talon that killed Mondatta, an omnic?

[marble charm]

Well I'm not really sure if Rammatra knows they did that thf

Tbf

But ram needs resources

And Talon is offering them

[fossil wren]

Ramattra hates Mondatta, at least he hates him since uprising I doubt he cares

Rereading Masquerade I realized something, There are 4 members of Talon's inner council besides Sanjay, Moira and Maximilien at the meeting in Venice, And there are 8 empty seats of which 2 are occupied by Reaper and Doomfist, So there would be 6 (5 if we dont count Vialli who Doomfist killed) members who didnt attend the meeting (perhaps killed for being aligned with Vialli) We have 4 members that we haven't fully seen who they are and another 5 still completely unknown, The interesting thing is that one of the 4 members that we haven't seen completely has a hair similar to someone

Saying it's Emre would be the obvious thing to say, but that doesn't make any fucking sense, so why is Maximilien looking for him? Unless he wants to get rid of him

[sacred root]

Wouldn't sombra, widow and moira count as council members?

[fossil wren]

Only Moira

Widow and Sombra are field agents

Mauga too

Sigma is a living weapon

Sombra is not trustworthy enough to be part of the council, Widow could easily be part of the council, however I doubt she would like it

[fossil wren]

Personally, I think Reaper became part of the Council during Masquerade

[keen summit]

and that is why hes a villain, because his ways are faulty. He believes words do nothing so believes he should just force freedom onto people, which itself is against freedom and will only increase hate on omnics. He basically is just super desperate and thinks "if mondattas way didnt work ill do the exact opposite"

[keen summit]

and mauga wouldnt really fit for it either

theyd be talking about expenses and the best way to go forth with the plan and he'd say "spend all the money on bullets and kill that town, thatll show why they need to be strong right? yeah just let me at em"

[spare fox]

I think, IF that is Emre there at the table, Max wants him taken out (probably killed but we don't know) in order to get out of or away from Talon somehow without raising suspicions towards Max himself

it's a tenuous theory that requires a lot of leaps but what we do know is that Max is growing tired of Talon spending his money

[candid helm]

Is Havana under Max's control ?

[spare fox]

unknown

[candid helm]

Thought his operations ran there

[spare fox]

I think for now we just know that it's a Talon armory or base

[fossil wren]

Max has influence in Havana, but I doubt he has the control he has over Monaco

[fluid folio]

Agreed

[spare fox]

Monaco is Circuit Royale right? Pocket King basically confirms that he does have control over it by blackmailing and tricking the Corte (something French) into basically signing over their businesses to Max and his various shell companies - that's how he is so rich

[fossil wren]

Yeah

[spare fox]

ohhh my bad

I misread what you said

I read it as "I doubt he has control over Monaco"

sorry mb

[fossil wren]

Talon has presence on these maps: Circuit Royal, Rialto and Havana

[fossil wren]

I wonder if we'll see a map more focused on them in the future, maybe their headquarters in Rome

We already have Gibraltar for Overwatch, a map completely focused on Talon wouldn't be bad

[spare fox]

Talon might be difficult narrative-wise since they operate in secret but def would be interesting

Talon council members also seem to operate out of their own "bases" too like Moira is still in Oasis and such

[worthy vault]

Why did Baptiste leave Talon

[peak escarp]

because he saw the bad things they were doing, and realized he had become the bad guy

[covert flint]

I love how sojourn and soldier mirror eachother so well

Both in game and in lore theyre so similar yet opposite

[fossil wren]

She will never be as interesting as Jack

[lofty swift]

fr

soldier on top ngl

[leaden hornet]

ya mr.morrison diffs ms. chase in lore

[spare fox]

probably unpopular take, yes soldier is the more complicated character and thus more interesting but Sojo is more the type of character I'd actually like being around and ngl I think I'd rather have her as my commanding officer

[fossil wren]

Jack is a soldier not a commander, Vivian is really a commander

But it doesn't change the fact that she's a boring character

[halcyon nest]

Fr

[peak escarp]

call me weird but I'd rather have Reyes (pre-Moira) as my commander

[flint rivet]

Reyes seemed like he was an in the field commander more where as Jack or Vivian stayed out of the action a lot. Maybe thats why they bumped heads.

[peak escarp]

Reyes was also the type of commander to made meticulous plans, figured out every detail before going in

Morrison was the impulsive one who liked to improvise

[candid helm]

He made overwatch before jack took the lead

Tho there was a difference between Reyes and Jack's recruiting and maybe that's what made overwatch more likable to the public

[foggy tulip]

Uwu

[keen summit]

yeah its quite litterally why they made jack the official eader, he came off as more likeable

[candid helm]

It was clear when Reyes left the command and made Blackwatch , he started recruiting people like Moira who was abandoned by Overwatch because of her dangerous researches , or McCree who was going to be executed but he took them on his side for simple and logical reasons (skill , experience , and the ability to get the job done) unlike Jack when we saw him recruiting people like Tracer , who seemed promising and ambitious to save the world but she was still a newbie and innocent etc

[keen summit]

it seems in general reyes cared more about end results (which is why he fits talon too) instead of the moral questions. If using a morally corrupt scientist to save people is the best for results physically he is willing to do so

[candid helm]

Ngl reyes excelled jack at this point
And there is no consequences Because Overwatch was previously more of a team than an organization , when the Omnic War ended the meaning of Overwatch was lost and Jack tried to open the doors for the youth and cover up the issue from his side in order to polish the image of Overwatch (as we see him shining in every apperance of his and we also see statues of him as they treat them as heroes) but the pressure of Talon Null Sector and politicians destroyed this entire effort

[peak escarp]

Cassidy wasn't going to be executed - the choice was join Blackwatch or go to jail

[candid helm]

You're right mb , but with his charges this is what would probably happen

[peak escarp]

I don't think they would execute a 17-year-old kid for being part of a gang

[cedar shuttle]

Yeah he wasn't like some mass murderer he just robbed some trains iirc right?

[peak escarp]

robbed trains, stole weapons

general gang stuff

[barren sleet]

Any idea what happened to North Korea in the world of Overwatch?

[spare fox]

it's conveniently not mentioned and it'll probably stay that way lol

it's an "optimistic" view of the future so the more problematic issues are at most glossed over if not ignored/revisioned

[shy dagger]

Honestly that’s for the better. Game doesn’t need more controversies than it already has😭
At least its controversies are mostly situated in the gaming community, no need to make that crap global

[spare fox]

Yeh and the whole dystopian apocalyptic future is so overdone, it really makes Overwatch feel unique

[peak escarp]

the optimistic future setting is a big part of what made Overwatch appeal to me

[shy dagger]

Yep, and the fact that Overwatch’s sci-fi future doesn’t take place in like a far away galaxy or foreign planet where humans have cohabited with aliens (to the point that it looks more like fantasy than anything else), makes it more unique to me. I just feel like Overwatch’s world building feels a lot more natural and realistic to our own while still maintaining a sci-fi, futuristic theme, which definitely hits closer to home

[elfin bane]

i wish they didn’t state the year tho

because eventually there’s no more imaging this stuff being possible

[shy dagger]

I don’t think we have a confirmed year date, no? I think it’s vague like it’s in the 2070’s but we don’t know when exactly.

[shy dagger]

I mean tbh sci-fi is at the end of the day fiction too. Like I’m sure we won’t have genetically modified, talking gorillas by the year 2300 even lol

[elfin bane]

yea but if they never said the year (range) then we could still pretend

it’s like

“look at all this cool stuff that could maybe happen possibly in the future”

vs

“look at all this cool stuff this guy made up”

[fossil wren]

What I like is that the weapons are still somewhat realistic, We have normal firearms on most of the characters and the technology in others is explained

[fossil wren]

And then of course there is Kiriko and her magic

[shy dagger]

Agree

[shy dagger]

Wellllll….we can headcannon that her healing and Kitsune are technology we don’t understand…or are partially not cannon to the lore like Zen’s powers are.
But honestly that’s like putting a bandage on a fractured wound it won’t do much🫠

[fossil wren]

even saying that it is hardlight lacks logic

[shy dagger]

Right?! Cause the whole thing about the Kitsune “being passed down from her grandma” makes it hard not making out to be anything but an anime subplot

[normal remnant]

didnt they say magic is just science we dont yet understand

or did i pull that out of thin air

[elfin bane]

idk but i don’t like it please revise her lore

or retcon the character

thank goodness this server has a clueless emoji it’s my social crutch

[normal remnant]

no yeah

her character feels so forced in

despite being "newgen" to ow i was immediately drawn to all the older characters because their lore is so much better

[fossil wren]

Zenyatta say it

[normal remnant]

period zenyatta

[fossil wren]

It's funny because it happens in an interaction with Mercy, where she asks him how the hell he heals

[normal remnant]

i believe him

magic balls that are actually science balls we do not yet understand

[fossil wren]

Mercy: I refuse to believe that your healing is magical.
Zenyatta: What seems like magic is sometimes science we don't yet understand.
Mercy: Exactly! I must learn how it works!

[normal remnant]

god i hope they get back on with their lore soon...

i wanna know what widowmaker is up to at the chateaux

[peak escarp]

I don't have a problem with Kiriko having magic

I just wish it was consistent

[shy dagger]

The irony of this interaction is that Zen’s powers aren’t even cannon so while I use this argument too with Kiriko it’s ultimately moot

[peak escarp]

Kiriko's fox is magic, but Genji/Hanzo's dragons are tech?

[shy dagger]

I do cause I feel like it breaks the sci-fi feel that Overwatch is always known for

[shy dagger]

Hard light images

[normal remnant]

i'd like them to have an explanation

[peak escarp]

from where?

[normal remnant]

would feel more complete

[shy dagger]

Have you seen what modern drones could do? Full display images and animations, who says that in the future we wouldn’t have a more advanced version of that

[peak escarp]

hard light always has an emitter, some kind of source

[normal remnant]

hmmm maybe they learned a similar technique to how hard light is weaved within their own community? referred to it as something else?

[peak escarp]

Kiriko summons the fox as a child, with no source

[normal remnant]

i mean yeah, dont they outright call it a spirit?

kinda ruins the vibe

[shy dagger]

Maybe it’s something close to hard light but isn’t actually hard-light. There’s lots of examples of this in science where something appears to be one thing but is actually another

[peak escarp]

I can't see any feasible way to explain it as tech without retcons

[normal remnant]

its just so confusing

ive been trying to wrap my head around the general lore of overwatch, this just makes my head hurt more lol

[peak escarp]

how is it confusing?

[shy dagger]

How though, was it established or hinted before that it was magic?

[peak escarp]

they call it a spirit fox

[normal remnant]

i wish they kept it sciencey

[peak escarp]

and give no other explanation

[normal remnant]

that feels lazy imo

they did such a good job creating all this intricate lore and tech for their world then just got sick and resorted to magic?

[peak escarp]

how is that lazy?

writing magic is no different from inventing science tech that doesn't exist

like the chronal accelerator

[normal remnant]

i guess it just doesnt feel as creative

[shy dagger]

No, it feels inconsistent which is what’s bothering most people

[normal remnant]

it'll be different for everyone, i just really liked the way that they had such futuristic science that was explained so well

[shy dagger]

Overwatch’s identity was always sci-fi in nature

[peak escarp]

if both the fox and the dragons were magic, it would bother me less

if both were tech, I'd also be fine with it

it's just weird that they're not the same despite looking the same

[normal remnant]

i'd love it if they found a way to bring the science that was already established as a part of this world's identity into it

[peak escarp]

most of the tech isn't explained at all

[normal remnant]

but i feel like it can be explained

with magic thats just how it is

[peak escarp]

you can explain magic too

[normal remnant]

how would you?

[peak escarp]

does it come from the spirit/soul of the person? or some outside force? can it be learned, or are you born with it?

there's a lot of magic systems in fiction, they don't all work the same

[normal remnant]

its definitely interesting but just personally i love their science vibe

[shy dagger]

I feel like science naturally feels a lot more organic is what they’re trying to say, rather than having instinct mythical, aura powers that are passed down from grandma

[normal remnant]

all that science stuff was so intriguing to me and more appealing than magic

[peak escarp]

to each their own

[shy dagger]

I feel like it’s just that Overwatch has built itself as a science fiction game so going off the rails with a full blown Magic character is weird a bit

[normal remnant]

i feel like you explained that much better than me lol ty

[peak escarp]

but also a lot of the science in Overwatch is made up, or doesn't work like it would irl

like, if you slowed someone's heartbeat so much that they turned blue, they'd probably die or at least be hospitalized

[normal remnant]

i like how you can see their inspiration from existing theories tho

[peak escarp]

they would not be running around sniping people

[normal remnant]

it makes it feel like its progressed more naturally from current times

theres always been theory on time travel and genetic modification like it feels sm more explainable

[peak escarp]

and turning into smoke?

[normal remnant]

ohh i was gonna ask my dad about the science theories abt that one

[peak escarp]

witnessing a black hole giving someone gravity powers?

[normal remnant]

he said he had some idea it seemed pretty interesting but i know nothing abt science lol

i can totally see the appeal of magic, i just find the science explanation to flow more naturally

[shy dagger]

To be completely fair and I respect your viewpoint, that said I feel like this is heavy bias that people would have of the future no matter what they introduce. Cause like, if you try explaining electricity or advanced science in general to a Medieval English peasant, he’d laugh at you and call you crazy, right?
So I don’t mind if things seem “unrealistic” in some capacity when it comes to science-fiction cause ultimately we don’t know what the future holds especially concerning scientific advancements.

My issue is just that, if you’re gonna say that A, B, and C are technology, then X, Y, and Z from the same universe should also be technology

[peak escarp]

I'm just pointing out things that seem like magic but are "explained" by tech

maybe they will give Kiriko a tech explanation, but it will still seem like magic

Overwatch had supernatural elements in it long before Kiriko

[shy dagger]

I think that still supports my point tbh if we’re going off perspective alone. Like yea a medieval peasant would call a cell phone “magic” cause they don’t understand it even tho it’s obvious to us that it’s tech

[peak escarp]

I think what I'm trying to say is... it doesn't matter to me

but I would still like it to be consistent

[normal remnant]

ok change of subject but i have a few quick lore questions
i asked before like when people started finding out that widow was amelie and i got told that it was probably when ana met with cass - when did she meet with cass like relative to the timeline?
also do people know that reaper is gabriel, if so whooo does?
and does anyone know that jack is alive and who does if they do?

[peak escarp]

Ana and Cassidy met right after Cassidy rescued Echo (Reunion)
Ana, Jack and Mercy know Reaper is Reyes; it's likely Mercy told the rest of Overwatch

Mercy and Cassidy knew Jack was alive, and Cassidy mentions it during one of the Invasion cinematics

so all of Overwatch knows

[normal remnant]

tysm

u truly are the lore warlord

[peak escarp]

also Doomfist, Moira and Sombra know that Reyes is Reaper

Doomfist and Sombra also know Jack is alive, and Moira probably knows too

[shy dagger]

All hail Doctor Six

[shy dagger]

Same tbh

[peak escarp]

I'm more mad that they won't fix her age! her bio says she's 21, but it also says she was 12 when Sojiro was killed, which happened 14 years ago!

the math isn't mathing!

26 is a much better fit for her age anyway

[shy dagger]

Truth nuke

Either that or if they wanna keep her young age (cause Y’know young girls sell well), they should retcon the part when Sojiro was killed

[peak escarp]

I like my solution better

but either way, just be consistent

they just have to change one number, one or the other

[shy dagger]

I get it, I just found mine to be the most realistic. Also, does Kiri look 26? I know she’d still be in her twenties aka still very young but still

[peak escarp]

people complained that Sombra doesn't look 30

the Overwatch art style makes everyone look a bit young, so it wouldn't be that unbelievable

[shy dagger]

True ig. Also who am I kidding, most people would still simp for Kiri without even knowing her age.

Wouldn’t matter anyways

[fossil wren]

I always thought she was like 25

Sombra is the youngest member of Talon right?

[peak escarp]

that we know of

[fossil wren]

Maybe Maximilien could be younger

But hard to know

[kind ore]

I've long believed that Overwatch and Team Fortress 2 take place in the same universe, 100 years apart from each other.

And also that the events of TF2 indirectly caused the Omnic Crisis

[fossil wren]

An interesting head canon

[halcyon ore]

ur intentionally missing the point, you can explain how a phone works 100% its not just about perspective, even if u put all your time to theorise how widowmaker is living with no pulse u wont find a reason because it goes against logic

[shy dagger]

Yes it’s all about perspective cause the medieval peasant doesn’t understand the concepts of electricity, algorithms, Bluetooth, etc. So try as you may to explain it to him he’d still regard it as “magic”, cause he doesn’t understand it from his perspective. Which leads to my original point, a huge part of what makes science fascinating is that huge leaps that seemed impossible before could be done, so basically I don’t mind that widow is purple even tho it’s for us weird it’s for them not as much, or at least possible.
Also just a reminder, it was Moira who did this to Widow, and like, we all know Moira is about revolutionizing science to reach levels previously thought unconceivable.

[halcyon ore]

you can teach a medieval peasant those concepts lmao

they dont have brain issues, just no education

[halcyon ore]

if shes actually using science, its something attainable for us as well, unless shes using items that do not exist in our world

[shy dagger]

My point is that it’ll seem foreign to them, but they can still learn and understand it!!
Similar to how the concept of widow’s skin looks foreign to us but we can still learn and understand how it works. There’s nothing inherently “illogical” here

[halcyon ore]

and even then, those items are just power sources lol
if its an entire different concept, then that concept has to ahvea power source

[halcyon ore]

thats the thing
the concept of widows skin isnt something we can learn and understand how it works
because the concept of a pulse is the same in overwatch verse and here, until told otherwise

her heart has stopped, she does not have a pulse

she cannot breathe, yet she talks with her mouth and tongue

she is a human

its illogical

[shy dagger]

Probably hooked her up to some sci fi machine that lets her do both

That

Easy

[halcyon ore]

she is not hooked up to a machine tho

you can see on her character design there is no visible machine

[shy dagger]

Nano machines in her blood cells that are microscopic

There

[halcyon ore]

lore hasnt told us of any machines

[halcyon ore]

and what do those nano machines do then

and how do they do that

[shy dagger]

I’m giving examples

[halcyon ore]

ok answer the questions then

theoretically what do the nano machines do and how would they do that using science

if it pumps her blood, she would not have deoxygenated vessels, and her skin wouldnt be purple

[shy dagger]

Why care for the meticulous details? Mercy also uses nano machines to heal, wanna study the non-existent science of a sci-fi world? I’d say be my guest but they don’t exist
Another important point is that even if you’re right and I give up my argument, this is all just nitpicks in the eyes of the average player

[halcyon ore]

because the meticulous details are what SHAPE THE LOGIC

the distinction between science and other explanations are in the details

if you cant explain it through science it isnt science

lol

[shy dagger]

You’re using logic to justify the details of a fantasy, fictional world.
Y’know what, let’s end it at that. Widow is purple cause she looks cool that way. End of story, and that’s how it should be for most fiction. Not everything has to be perfectly logical. We have a talking gorilla with a substantial IQ and a sentient Hamster like be fr

[halcyon ore]

ur point was there was a logic that we didnt understand yet..

when in reality it was illogical in the first place..

bffr

[shy dagger]

That’s how science sometimes seems

[glass geyser]

Dum

[halcyon ore]

by definition its not

[halcyon ore]

lmao

[worldly lagoon]

Widows reason for being purple is less circlulation due to a slowed heart

[pallid storm]

Oh damn I’ve never thought about it this way

that’s valid

[woeful stratus]

It’s a reference to Sisyphus, former king of Corinth. He was a slimy pos in his mortal life so when he went to the underworld he was sent to Tartarus, where his punishment was to push a boulder up to the top of the hill. When he would nearly reach the top the boulder would force itself to roll back down the hill, and he would have to start over again. This cycle continues for eternity, and it’s a big and heavy boulder sooooo…. Pretty brutal punishment.

[peak escarp]

her heart has not stopped, only slowed - she still breathes normally

[halcyon ore]

damn i didnt know

still no reason for her to be purple tho

[peak escarp]

not realistically, no

[halcyon ore]

and would give her major health issues i think
decreased stamina

ya literally hospitalized

[peak escarp]

this is why it's science fiction

[past copper]

A slowed heart rate, or bradycardia, can lead to bluish skin (cyanosis) because it reduces the amount of oxygen-rich blood circulating throughout the body

This is the closest realistic thing to what Widowmaker has, but on a much larger scale

Courtesy of the Talon scientists who conditioned her

[wooden tree]

https://youtu.be/yHnN8hW6M8s?si=4JDC6W46SPow0VLd

[slim jolt]

Reapers straight

[vivid dove]

Is that a question?

Ofc

[worthy rose]

Is there anyone in the overwatch team that sells SR?

Someone told me in a comp game I'm selling SR

[peak escarp]

he was married to a woman and had a child with her, so he is likely to be straight

[hushed musk]

@warped grail read these 2 messages bruh I'm dying rn 😭 😭 😭

[warped grail]

LOL

Ts me

[cerulean owl]

kinda wonder where the gundam wi/ng and street fighter fits into the lore ngl/

[peak escarp]

it doesn't

collabs are not canon

[cerulean owl]

yea knew that just sais that for funnys

[peak escarp]

this is a serious discussion channel

[fossil wren]

Yk it would be cool if they put Street Fighter on the Busan and Hanaoka arcades

[peak escarp]

Happy Mother's Day to all the Overwatch mothers: Ana Amari, Ingrid Lindholm, Dr. Mina Liao, Efi Oladele, Asa Yamagami, Martina Reyes, Dr. Jiayi Teo, Valentine Chase-Chapman, Fola Oladele, Ira Zaryanova and Marisha Zaryanova

[glass glacier]

true tyyy

[sand veldt]

Did Zenyatta teach Ramattra or the other way around?

[elfin bane]

they were both taught by mondatta

[opaque tundra]

Ramattra taught Zenyatta self-defense

[elfin bane]

probably that too

[sand veldt]

So that’s why they were both pissed when he died

I took zen and ram to have a very Anakin-Obi Wan relationship

[elfin bane]

ram wasn’t that pissed becuse mondatta had spoken out against null sectors antics

ram felt like mondatta was disrespecting omnics

[sand veldt]

“Hey that’s racist bro”

[sand veldt]

Do you reckon he’ll ever fight doom fist!

Ram that is, not Zen

[elfin bane]

idk i think they were working together right

we saw doom talk to ram in one of the ow1 archives missions i think

[sand veldt]

I heard doom was manipulating ram or something

Which the big purple boi wouldn’t take kindly to, where he ever to find out

*were

[sand veldt]

I have one more zen-ram question if that’s ok

[elfin bane]

sure

[elfin bane]

i see

[sand veldt]

Where do they get their powers from? Every other character seems confused about it

[elfin bane]

their powers are not in the lore

like zen can’t actually heal

[peak escarp]

Zenyatta claims to get his powers from the Iris

Ramattra has nanites

[sand veldt]

Oh Oki

Idk what the iris is btw

[peak escarp]

the Iris is an anomaly created when Aurora, the first sentient omnic, transcended and shared her sentience with all omnics

which ended the omnic crisis

[elfin bane]

sorta like omnic nirvana

[peak escarp]

the Shambali have built their religion around it

[fossil wren]

Zen and Ram's relationship is not Obi-Anakin

Its more like Magneto and Professor X

[sand veldt]

Except zen isn’t a manipulative piece of shit

But yeah you’re right

[halcyon nest]

Speaking of zen did they ever hint what he was doing before the crisis? Ik there are a few voice lines of him lying about it but was there ever a real evidence or hint to what he was doing?

[fossil wren]

Unknown

Personally, I have a theory regarding Zenyatta answers, Thanks to his connection with the iris he experiences memories of other omnics that's why he doesn't give a real answer when he is asked what he did before the crisis, Although of course this is just a theory

[rare trail]

yeah fr fuck obi wan

[fossil wren]

The only thing we know about Zenyatta is that he was built near the coast

[fossil wren]

I think he means professor x

😭

[sand veldt]

I meant professor x Mano

Lmao

[rare trail]

ik

hes just being dumb

'more complex character who has been in more has done morally dubious things before' 🤯🤯🤯🤯

like yeah zen is a better person bc overwatch chars dont have the ability to be as deep as a chars that have existed for decades and are much more popular

[fossil wren]

Blizzard can create deep characters, Warcraft is a great example, however the problem lies in the constant setbacks that the Lore team has had and the company's decisions

Now that a good portion of the developers have unionized, let's hope things get better

[shrewd quarry]

overwatch lore

[serene pollen]

But proffesor x was #1

[toxic kindle]

The lore master must be a little messy after the amount of constant lay offs and key figures leaving.

[languid anchor]

@addy5974 please unblock me. I care about you and I really want this to work. My feelings for you are real.

[spare fox]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[thorn kindle]

Please keep personal issues out of the server. Thank you!

[white goblet]

@dapper sun

[sand veldt]

Anyway

Y’all think we’re ever gonna get lore updates?

[thorn kindle]

Please don’t encourage this

[white goblet]

Mb

[sand veldt]

And what’s the origin of Doom?

[fossil wren]

@sand veldt

[violet crystal]

talon are the good guys

[grand wedge]

not really no

[hazy moss]

sure thats true if youre STUPID

[worthy vault]

No they're the evil villains

[willow hamlet]

https://youtube.com/shorts/-MTnr9o_pH8?si=qxeDwR5HGiGORzcM

Can someone explain to me what the helmet is

Is it the white part on his head

[zinc geyser]

hes referring to the machines used to mind control omnics seen in the pve missions

Subjugators i believe they were called

[willow hamlet]

Wtf

So rammatra is mind controlling all of them to use as an army?

[past copper]

Ramattra’s putting the helmets on them to more or less “deactivate” omnics. Which locks their conscious and unconscious minds in a loop

What the endgame is to this is unknown. Only that if the helmet is forcibly removed, the omnic will immediately die

[weary swift]

Sorry ik this is from a few days ago but then we can also say that torb is on the same level for his hate of omnics due to his age and the war despite his reasoning also be justifiable. Its normal for ppl to hate omnics due to their long wars with them. Who are we to say that all those omnics are innocent or evil. No bodies are honored in junker city and all

[rare trail]

not really torb

or well

not anymore

he like adopted bastoin p much

binary covers it rlly well

and iirc theres a short story abt him taking bastoin in and stuff

[weary swift]

Yeah but ygwim, ik that bros chilled out but past and present cant really ignore their kill counts in reality

[rare trail]

yeahh

idk if we've seem him interact with like

'normal' omnics post awakening besides for bastion

btu its implied bastion units like didnt get awakened

most of them beside slike our bastion

[weary swift]

Mhm idk if hes interacted with echo, ik he has interacted with zen and im pretty sure theres a level of mistrust but if he would open up would definitely realize the good in most omnics

[rare trail]

wait when did he interact with zen

[weary swift]

No just implying

[rare trail]

ohhh icic

[weary swift]

If they were to

[rare trail]

i think hes mostly chilled out towards omnics after bastion

theres a pve cutscene too taht shows him like defending bsatoin from rein

[weary swift]

King behavior if you asked me

[rare trail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxRRPldHj38&pp=ygUodG9yYiBkZWZlZG5naW4gYmFzdGlvbiByZWluIHB2ZSBjdXRzY2VuZdIHCQmLCQGHKiGM7w%3D%3D

fr my goat

[peak escarp]

Torbjorn had an arc getting over his hatred of omnics

Freja still hates them

[worthy rose]

Who's strongest character lore wise?

I feel like it's zarya or lucio imo

But idk much lore

[peak escarp]

!!lorestrongest

[twilit nacelle]

The strongest heroes in the lore are Winston, Orisa, Doomfist and Mauga. Sigma, Symmetra and Lifeweaver are potentially stronger but their power is speculative.

[worthy rose]

Ah thanks

Surprised about mauga

He just feels like a dude with machineguns lol

[peak escarp]

he fought Doomfist and it was a draw

[worthy rose]

Ah

They should add a section in the game for the lore

All I remember were the cinematics they made

But I would read the lore if they add it ingame

I respect the Cassidy grind

I was a McCree main back in the day went by the name of Chinese_ McCree

Maybe I'll go back to him someday

[icy lily]

🧐

[keen summit]

thing is itd just be unnecessary space

its easy to find the lore if you just, do some basic searching

so for 90% of players who dont know the lore itd just be extra space and clutter in the hero screen. course itd be cool if u could press a tab and go to their bio, but i dont really see a reason when its so easy to find normally

[candid helm]

No reaper 😢

[rare trail]

reaper is probably next after mauga doom

its just hes like, the villain like all the time so he kinda acts like a bumbling buffoon and has to lose lots

[candid helm]

I think that the current version of Reaper is not the strongest It's true that he has the abilities that Moira gave him , but he is only good at evasion and delaying because the total reliance is always on Reaper's skill itself

Not to mention he suffers from constant pain and his body is almost dead because of what Mercy's revival teq , He now looks like a walking corpse
so He is effective in quick assassinations as we always see him but if you pressure him for a long time he might lose, as we saw in the first cenimatic movie against Winston

Commander reyes imo is the strongest version

[delicate narwhal]

@wicked pivot yall really left encounters to die huh ❤️ even leaving the server without any prior announcement, what a rotten thing to do.

[fossil wren]

Please do not use this channel for discussions unrelated to the lore

[worthy vault]

Are we talking about talon

[winter path]

Is the reaper heartbreaker skin rare?

[worthy rose]

Bro the mod already replied to you are you blind? And this is the lore channel not ask random questions channel go to general, he said it's not rare it was in the shop recently

Also it doesn't matter what skins you have, I have noire widow and I literally dont care and no one does, rare things are dumb overall in games and irl

[eager trench]

Word

[halcyon nest]

What is pachimari and why is it everywhere?

[spare fox]

It's like an in-universe mascot, analagous to Hello Kitty or Pikachu

[worthy rose]

Is being so ahh at zarya considered lore

[violet crystal]

Islam is the one true religion in overwatch thoughts?

[spare fox]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[ember harness]

is Ramatra a good guy?

[twilit patrol]

Not really

[ember harness]

he looks like a good one to me

[candid helm]

Why do you think so ?

[ember harness]

he is cool

[candid helm]

Bruh

[past cave]

my copy of overwatch declassified finally came in, im literally going to have the time of my life reading this beautiful archive

[spare fox]

Enjoy! It's pretty thorough and tons of new info

[past cave]

Oh I'm enjoying it to my fullest, taking a ton of notes and underlining anything I believe I'm important

[past copper]

It's a great read. Really gives you a greater understanding of just what the world of Overwatch is like

[past cave]

I've been taking notes and annotations for anything I find important

I adore the fact that it's written from an in universe archival pov, it's unique and special

One thing I thought was interesting was lieutenant wilhelm's comparison to the first page art and his skin. It's interesting to me cause the art in the book presents him with long hair and a small beard, while the skin actually shows the opposite. Makes me wonder how long he sported that armor, enough to have his hair grow in so much

[fossil wren]

Ramattra has good intentions

The way he tries to get them is not good

[ember harness]

Well that might be

[fossil wren]

He cannot be considered a complete villain, His goals are not necessarily evil, He doesnt seek to benefit himself with his actions

[ember harness]

I mean humans made his life a hell

I understand him

If humans are bad kill them

Let's go omnics!!!

[ember harness]

He doesn't fight for himself, he never has

[fossil wren]

Ramattra is more of an antagonist than a villain

[fossil wren]

Here is a misinterpretation of Ramattra and Null Sector, He dont want to extinguish humans, He doesnt hate them completely and is capable of collaborating with them

[ember harness]

Yes, he only hates bad humans

Like Trump or Putin

[past copper]

I hate dicktators as much as the next guy…

[opaque talon]

are characters size/height in game canon to their characters or are they different for the game?

[past copper]

Let’s not bring politics into this please

[opaque talon]

I could make an inappropriate joke here but I won’t. 😎

[spare fox]

I personally think that the game heights are slightly exaggerated but others think it's more reasonable that in the future with enhanced tech and medicine that exceptional humans upwards of 7 ft+ would exist

[sand veldt]

Why are talon so invested in having sigma on their side if he’s actually pretty weak in lore?

[peak escarp]

because of his potential

if he could master his gravity powers, he'd be unstoppable

[merry mason]

Plus he’s still a brilliant scientist

He invented antigravity tech imagine what he could come up with if talon just gave him a couple years to himself and max’s bank account numbers

[tardy nymph]

Does anybody else feel like the Overwatch has a very human centric perspective? Like just with all the sympathy seemingly generated towards omnics just for them to be used as cannon fodder and all of our omnic characters being kinda generic stereotypes aside from maybe Orissa? I’m not a lore expert but wanted some opinions from those who are

I’m just kinda dying to see an omnic that truly has a human personality, filled with imperfection, emotion, insecurity, stuff like that. Does that not come with their consciousness?

[opaque tundra]

I agree that we need more omnic exploration that isn’t London Calling, and we have some really great omnic characters (zen, ram, and max are NOT stereotypes and have depth to their characters) but unfortunately I don’t think we’ll see that anytime soon

[round locust]

i dont really know the lore that much, but does echo and Winston have a connection somewhere down the line

[opaque tundra]

They're friends and that's all we know basically

I don't think there's anything deeper (yet)

[tardy nymph]

I guess Zen, Ram, and Max aren’t stereotypes. Comparing Zen and Ram to Genji and Hanzo I think it’s just their monk background that makes them a bit more cold and calm and made me think of them as stereotypical

Basically I’m trying to see an omnic that isn’t as calm and cold. I know Ram gets angry and is vengeful but in a very intelligent way I would kind of expect from a robot. Very philosophical, very committed.

Maybe I’m being a bit unfair because plenty of people are the same. Doomfist is similar to Ram in that way. Anger and passion without as much insecurity

I just feel like if you want to show that omnics have a truly human consciousness there’s a necessity to show uniquely human features instead of shared features between people and omnics

[sand veldt]

Hear me out

What if sigma betrayed talon and joined Overwatch

Also does he know or care how evil they are

[shy dagger]

He’s lost his mind so no he doesn’t know. He thinks they’re helping him, which is proven from his interaction with Bap.
Meaning, if he were to join Overwatch he’d have to gain his sanity back and talon won’t allow that

[elfin bane]

orisa isn’t sentient

[tardy nymph]

Damn

[elfin bane]

she was made after the awakening

[tardy nymph]

I wonder why Ramattra treats her like she is one of them then

Like does Ramattra fight for non sentient robots as well?

[elfin bane]

probably

[tardy nymph]

What is the justification for that

[elfin bane]

he is also a robot

idk

[spare fox]

my theory is that he isn't insane exactly but rather he's experiencing multiple realities due to the black hole

[elfin bane]

maybe he has hope for a second awakening

[tardy nymph]

Yeah but he doesn’t like Anubis

[tardy nymph]

Maybe

[elfin bane]

or to continually create awakenings so that all robots are sentient

[tardy nymph]

Like AI made by humans seems anti Ramattra

Mmm

[elfin bane]

hm indeed

[tardy nymph]

I wonder what classifies as a robot or a machine to him then

Like he uses nanites right

Which is a really small robot

Or is that just an inaccurate naming for whatever metal thing he shoots out of his staff

Can he not use a roomba?

Like if he achieved his dream would all tools the omnic kind use be organic matter?

Maybe he’s an ends justifies the means kind of guy

[elfin bane]

maybe it’s based on the fact orisa has ai

a really advanced ai

[tardy nymph]

But ai created by a human

Anubis was an ai controllling robots and Ram hates him

Like if he sees the Awakening as a good thing, then surely he doesn’t see Ai as equal to sentience

He even says “rising above your programming”

As if to demean programming, aka AI

So maybe there’s some connection but I would think he sees them as inferior regardless of their allegiances

Needing to be awakened

He also describes Omnics as a single generation, as if to exclude those like Orissa created afterwards, after this single generation of Awakened robots

[fossil wren]

No

His entire army is made of non-sentient omnics so I would probably say no

As for Orisa and Echo, they are not sentient but they are advanced ai

[tardy nymph]

Does advancement matter to him? Was Anubis not advanced?

If he is willing to use non sentient omnics why does he have a problem with Anubis?

Maybe he’s just a hypocrite idk

But seems like he would have a lot of time to reflect and come to understanding this stuff

His whole personality is understanding omnics and their place in the world

So seems like a massive slip up

[fossil wren]

Because Anubis is a fucking genocidal

Who had the omnics under his absolute control

[tardy nymph]

But what does control mean to Ai

[fossil wren]

Ramattra knows what Anubis is capable of doing, that's why in one of his interactions with Pharah he says: you should have destroyed it

[tardy nymph]

Ai is already under control

It’s not sentient

[keen summit]

no

he doesnt

[keen summit]

and yes, hes intentionally a hypocrite, its why hes the villain

[keen summit]

after reading some ram quotes that are for pve i think its pretty fun how he shows alot of his engineering side in it

saying bout torbs cannon that its shaby and that the ferry should have weapons

also, its weird seeing who does and doesnt have pve lines

hazard for example does

same with juno

but orisa and mauga dont, but ram doom do

[merry mason]

They must be coming in PvE chapter two

[keen summit]

fyi pve isnt officially cancelled

[worthy rose]

Source?

[keen summit]

its never been stated to be cancelled

thats the source

[fossil wren]

There was never an official cancellation when they fired the entire team it was practically an indirect cancellation

[keen summit]

they rehired the pve director

and they fired half of every team

• it wasnt all

it was majority

in other words. its still pretty likely theyll add the two missions they had pretty far. but further is unlikely

[sand veldt]

Sigma vs Ram and Doom

[fossil wren]

I doubt it will happen

[fossil wren]

None of Ram's abilities are canon in the lore

No nemesis form

No barrier

No vortex

Ramattra is a strategist and tactician

[fossil wren]

Personally, I think the way Blizzard should continue with PVE is a kind of archives 2.0

[keen summit]

i agree

but again, thats why i say its not officially cancelled

its never stated to be, thus it isnt officially cancelled

[keen summit]

(from what we know)

[keen summit]

sigma is theoretically the strongest, ram we know nothing off, doom is strong

[sand veldt]

I wonder if doom is scared of sigma

It would be funny

[keen summit]

he isnt

he sees sigma as a good pillarhead of his philosophy probs

got powers over gravity after an accident, practically evolving as a human because of it, fits his ideology

[sand veldt]

I’d be scared of the gravity man if I was him

[keen summit]

why?

[fossil wren]

Sigma wouldn't even hurt a fly if we're honest, At least not of his own will, Under someone else's manipulation, I believe he is capable of causing harm

[keen summit]

sigma we have 0 clue how strong he is

[keen summit]

its also implied he has an alternate personality

[fossil wren]

Ik

[keen summit]

but fyi all we know that he can do is: lift some small rocks

[sand veldt]

Yeah I just watched his origin cinematic

[keen summit]

oh and a pen

[sand veldt]

Short but kind of disturbing

[fossil wren]

Blizzard and its great ability to create such interesting characters and the only recent Lore we have of him is a Christmas comic where Sombra gives him socks

😭

[keen summit]

with sigma its just obvious he wasnt planned

they have 0 clue what to do with him now

[fossil wren]

Sigma exists to give Talon a tank

Initially it was going to be Mauga but the development team was not convinced by the original Mauga kit which ended up being Sigma

[keen summit]

i am ware

im just saying they dont know what to do now

[fossil wren]

Personally it's sad because Sigma is one of the most interesting characters in the lore

[keen summit]

they couldve just made him a scientist wielding gravity to a certain extent

or well

ACTUALLY SOLIDIFY HIM IN LORE

now theyre stuck just kinda saying "hes being made into a weapon"
"hes in his lab"

[fossil wren]

If hes a living weapon, at least a comic or short story where he is used

[keen summit]

exactly

theres no threat yet

hes only called a living weapon once too

in his origin story description

[sand veldt]

He’s called a living weapon but

Seems like a chill dude

[keen summit]

well thats part of it

[sand veldt]

Except that one point he screamed “VIOLENCE” like he was channeling his inner Ram

[keen summit]

he doesnt know

[fossil wren]

They could make a short story with Sombra too, since she cares about him and tries to protect him from Talon (especially Moira)

[keen summit]

he isnt aware hes being turned into a living weapon

[sand veldt]

Does Ram know about what talon is doing to sigma?

Idk if you could tell but ram and sig are my fav characters lol

Oh and Zen

[keen summit]

why would he care

he probs does know, but it doesnt matter for him

[sand veldt]

He doesn’t seem to be a fan of subservience, hypocritical I know

[keen summit]

he doesnt care about doom using a person who went crazy

its unimportant for his goals

[fossil wren]

Yeah, but what happens in Talon is none of his business, They're just collaborators

[keen summit]

mutual beneficial goal

[fossil wren]

They will definitely betray each other at the first opportunity

[keen summit]

ram starts an omnic, doom can spin it to fit his believes "if humanity cant even beat their own creation, how can we call ourselves strong"

[sand veldt]

I hope someone kills doom

Preferably Sigma, for irony

[keen summit]

thing is rams war is usefull to him

and vice versa

[fossil wren]

The only thing that could provoke Ram is if he finds out what happened in Mauga short story video

[keen summit]

if the world is ruled by the strong, it would likely also be ruled by the victor of the world

[keen summit]

but lets be real, would he care

or would he just find it weird

its a downed ship

[fossil wren]

If they destroy one of my ships and steal my technology I would be a little upset

[keen summit]

ofcourse, but i doubt he'd change plan for that

i think dooms plan is ofcourse to create a technology to just shut the engines down

but

till he does something drastic as ram id continue in his mindset

again. doom doesnt have a reason YET to stop ram

this fits perfectly with his ideals and the type of world he wants cuz again, of humanity cant destroy their creations, are they strong?

[sand veldt]

How the hell did Doom survive being jumped by half of overwatch

No way he should still be alive

Also reaper has cool lore

[keen summit]

well

[keen summit]

genji tracer and winton arent going for kill firt off

and second, thats not half at all

third doom is still very capable mainly at strategy

they are public superheroes, if they killed it would make them less morally just, especially because at the time overwatch was already getting heat slowly

[sand veldt]

I didn’t think genji cared about killing in lore

[keen summit]

genji does

otherwise doom wouldve likely been dead

he also didnt kill hanzo

keep in mind this is after he slowly gained control of himself

and was less angry

[sand veldt]

Bit different refusing to kill your brother and refusing to kill a terrorist tbf

But yeah I guess zen taught him morals

[keen summit]

im pretty sure he hadnt met zen

but no

its more that they arent supposed to kill as main group of overwatch anymore

they had to detain him, because then they could 1 maybe find out info about talon

and 2 GOOD PRESS

[sand veldt]

Lol fair

I know very little about tracer lore

A bit about widow

Quite a bit about reaper and the Shamada brothers

Quite a bit about ram

What’s tracers story?

[keen summit]

watch her origin story

then come back if u have questions

[sand veldt]

Also what does hazard mean by Mercy harmed him?

[keen summit]

she didnt

overwatch did

[sand veldt]

Ohhh my bad

I kind of like hazard’s character

In fact whenever I use downpour I scream “SCOTLAND FOREVER”

Wait a sec I just read

Reaper helped start overwatch in the first place?

Wth?

[keen summit]

... ou said u knew reaper lore

reaper was actually the first choice

he was also atfirst going to be the leader but soldier fit better charasmatically

[sand veldt]

I know he was a part of the soldier program and was badly injured. Moira patched him and now he can manipulate his own molecular structure

And is in permanent pain

[halcyon nest]

Why is sigma’s name written around numbani?

[fossil wren]

Gabriel Reyes (Reaper) was the original leader of Overwatch during the Omnics Crisis

He is one of the founding members of Overwatch

[peak escarp]

there's a clothing brand called Sigma Bot Coture - no relation to the hero Sigma

[sand veldt]

Everyone seems to hate Moira

[fossil wren]

And with good reasons

[keen summit]

for good reason tbf

[fossil wren]

Moira is the equivalent of Satan in the Lore

[keen summit]

though i partially agree with her, i would still despise her if she existed irl

she thinks science should have no limits

and though i agree it would bring better results, its same with doomfist ideology. the costs are too high

its sadly another reason why wars get so much technological advancement going
Necessity: Doomfist
Easy test subjects: Moira

[fossil wren]

Moira definitely shouldn't have a PhD 😭

[keen summit]

i mean

shes smart

for all we know she only started going this hard later on

[marble charm]

Also inspired by Skibidi Toilet I assume

[peak escarp]

!!shitposting

[twilit nacelle]

Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[marble charm]

Sorry Doc 😰😔

[peak escarp]

damn zoomers

[rare trail]

uhh

by doom origin he had i think

whenver hes in his green suit thats post zen iirc

[keen summit]

its ngl really unclear

[azure flint]

mod shitposting in the lore channel

reported

[tardy nymph]

Moira is based

People disproportionately discriminate against others who do bad things than those who let bad things happen

As long as people have free will these are the same

Being a bystander to a horrible situation is just as bad as causing that horrible situation yourself

I think Moira understand this concept well when she calls patience a privelege

[fossil wren]

i was going to say that joke

but i dont let my intrussive thoughts win

[worthy rose]

Hi

[rare trail]

erm

just as bad is kinda wacky