lore-discussion

[ionic summit]

Makes sense

[keen summit]

The first we saw him was in that

[keen summit]

Sigma early

[ionic swift]

Fr

[strange jay]

omg hammond cannonbolt

echo sgtinkfly could work too

rammatra could be ben in his regular form and then he becomes four arms when you activate nemesis form

[peak escarp]

we even saw Mauga in the illustrations for What You Left Behind wearing the Talon Heavy armor

Talon Heavy skin when Blizzard?

[spare fox]

the type of skin that would have been released during lore Archives events 😩

remember those? 😩

[peak escarp]

well we got Sojourn's sweater from Calling in s14

so lore skins are still an option

[spare fox]

I meant lore events lol

[peak escarp]

if Blizzard made an irl version of that sweater I'd buy it in an instant

[spare fox]

I have a conspiracy theory. I know that Aaron said that the Archives missions broke but my theory is that they don't want to release them again or even put effort into them again because it was after Archives that there was a big demand for more PvE

[peak escarp]

Aaron said they would have to rebuild the Archives missions in order to bring them back in the OW2 engine

which reminds me of when Jeff said they would have to make a whole new game in order to have more PvE missions

so my conspiracy theory is that they're working on it, but don't want to spoil anything

[spare fox]

hmmmm maybe

[ionic summit]

the good ol' days

[fleet sail]

Talon are badass, despite being extremists 🤣

[tawdry lagoon]

It is possible but for now we just gotta wait and see

[peak escarp]

yep

[tawdry lagoon]

I have a theory which is becoming more possible I hope people remember overwatch event challenges the old ones that would give cool skins so my theory is there going to try and revive event challenges to give the community more to look towards when the seasons gets dry

[sweet tundra]

What if venture got mad and fought the code of overwatch to corrupt the game and make themselves skins

So like.. venture breaks the fourth wall and realizes they are In a game and they don't get mad at that fact.
Instead they get mad furious even at the fact that heroes like kirko and Juno are getting skins before them.

So they find a way to break the code and join arms with all the evil characters in overwatch to fight the heroes and steal all their skins

And we the players have to play sides of the fight of "evil vs good"

And venture gets a super evil skin

That's a mythic

And it's the evil bad boss the mythic of Juno has to fight in a big fortnite like event

With sick music and visuals

[peak escarp]

what

[sweet tundra]

Blizzard should hire me 100%

[peak escarp]

no

[sweet tundra]

Overwatch needs saving and I can do it

[peak escarp]

ha

[tough egret]

I'm 75% sure there was suppose to be an overwatched animated series, but something went wrong between Netflix and blizzard

[spare fox]

no, that 100% is what happened

[tough egret]

so we're gonna see an animated overwatch series?

[spare fox]

and now 1) no streaming services will ever want to deal with Blizzard and 2) MS is only interested in investing as little as possible to endeavors that will guarantee to print as much money as possible, so definitely not a series and definitely not an animated on at that

[spare fox]

I say I'd want an animated series, but the reality is that it would be bland and wouldn't focus on the characters and just kowtow to as many as possible

like that Genesis anime that they made

informative but boring

and/or they would advertise it with 1 tweet and then when it didn't make $1 billion in 10 minutes they'd wash their hands of the whole idea and be like, "look, nO oNe WaNtS a SeRiEs SEE!"

[peak escarp]

honestly a series is free money right now, I guess MS just doesn't want free money

[spare fox]

ok you're not wrong but the issue I'm pretty sure is that an animated series is an expensive and laborious way to print money, while collabs are practically free and low effort ways to print money...

[peak escarp]

true

if only one of those collaborators wanted to fund a series

[spare fox]

I hate to sound overly cynical and all but I'm sure they've had this conversation (probably at least once) and if it hasn't happened by now then I really doubt it ever will unless there's a big change in the higher ups

I'd love to be proven wrong some day though

[past copper]

I mean really, let's just get a series centered around the Golden Age of Overwatch

Genesis gave us the beginning of Overwatch and the future is still growing

So why not a series of what happened in between? When Overwatch was a global task force

Hero bios and the info from Declassified aren't bad. But a whole series would be more informative

Bc we can actually learn more about the heroes we know and see them in action AND any future heroes we don't know of

[blazing fulcrum]

it would probably reignite the calls for PVE

[blazing fulcrum]

kind of mad hopium imo

[peak escarp]

maybe

but I'd rather be optimistic than assume the worst

[spare fox]

This might be worth a pin
https://x.com/HazeletOW/status/1891253396125913365?t=2JHqqE-6_HrVnKaWeZcWkg&s=19

Hazelet (@HazeletOW) on X

This website is seriously amazing if you're into or want to get into Overwatch lore

X · Feb 16, 2025, 10:28 PM

the creator says they have more in progress too

[weary quarry]

Definitely a pin. Lore is so scattered

[peak escarp]

we already have a list

Omnic Reporter doesn't include the articles posted on the website, or any of the lore posted in twitter drops

[loud marsh]

I'd rather avoid pinning X. We no longer use X in announcements either.

[spare fox]

the X post is of the link to the blog website, it's a different link

[bitter sedge]

In the lore is OW created under UN? And thats why they wear blue stuff?

[tough egret]

Just watch

When overwatch is on the verge of actually dying out, blizzard is gonna try release or tease the possibility of an animated series and either:

1. People actually believe and keep OW2 alive for a while again until Blizzard doesn't follow through with what they said and then OW2 is done
   Or
2. Blizzard tries teasing an animated series, buy then it's too late because everyone already gave up hope and no longer believe Blizzard

[marble charm]

Tbh I think you're

Massively over exaggerating how 'at risk' OW/Blizzard is

[tough egret]

Probably

Also, who was in the wrong for that whole deal?
Spencer for up and switching? Or Netflix for poaching spencer?

[spare fox]

I don't know or if it was ever released, but it really doesn't make a difference does it?

this is what google;s AI said

so I wonder if what we got, that Genesis limited series in 2023, was what was left of what they planned for an OW series and they did what they could with the budget/resources they had

yes it was only "planned" and barely "in development" when it was cancelled but surely the writing team had some notes of what they wanted to do ultimately

[tough egret]

i guess not since they all had a part to play
Netflix cancelling a lot of animated series
Blizzard not listening to fans a lot of doing their own thing
No idea who Spencer is, so idc much

It'd just be nice to know who to blame for us not getting and possibly never getting an OW animated series

I do feel like it was a little scummy of Netflix poaching one of OW's employee's if that is true

[past copper]

I mean, Netflix or Amazon Prime Video are probably, really the only good options for Overwatch getting a series when you think about it

I would say Hulu, but considering they have ties with Disney+ now, that probably wouldn’t be optimal and I’m not even gonna mention 🥶 MAX

Honestly, looking at that, you’d think it just be simpler to just make an Overwatch series with a small indie company and put it out on YouTube instead of the big streaming services

[spare fox]

yeah but that brings us back to the "money" issue

they'd rather take a tiny fraction of that money and commit to yet another shonen anime collab that basically prints money in skin sales

[past copper]

Don’t YouTubers make money off the number of followers or likes their channels get or something. Idk, not one myself

If so, wouldn’t they make money if they were to put out a series on YouTube if they posted episodes to the PlayOverwatch channel?

[spare fox]

I don't know how it works or would work, sorry

[past copper]

Well I’m just saying, if that’s the case it would be a no brainer

Ok, so this is how YouTubers make money

YouTubers can make money through advertising revenue, merchandise sales, subscriptions, and brand sponsorships. To earn money from ads, creators must join the YouTube Partner Program (YPP)

From the sounds of it, seems pretty simple for Blizzard to make an Overwatch series on YouTube

If they were to advertise sponsors

[tough egret]

i know money is important and a necessity, but I would companies sometimes would focus on what the fans want and be more passionate about their game

[past copper]

Okay… tell the number people who work on the game to focus more on the game and less on the paychecks they need to live

Not to sound sarcastic, but that kinda is how that dream would have to become a reality. Sorry to say 🤷‍♂️

[spare fox]

preaching to the choir, really

fans have been asking where the OW series is since the annoucement trailer in 2014

and now, 10 years later it would require a massive paradigm shift with
-MS now owning Activision-Blizz
-the whole "fans don't want lore" thing that's probably in the upper management's heads after the PvE thing
-OW2 struggling at release in general
-ABK screwing the pooch with Netflix on the CFO poaching thing
-animation in general being undesirable for streaming services especially in the past few years

[past copper]

That last one’s not completely accurate

[spare fox]

I don't want to say it'll never happen - like I said I would love it - but the aforementioned things would have to shift or change

[tough egret]

yeah, yeah
i know
I know it's just a wish

[tough egret]

we lost inside job and a bunch of other animated series

[past copper]

Not really. Inside Job, yes. But still a lot more original animated series on Netflix

MAX was much worse killing their animated shows

[spare fox]

yeah they don't seem to think that anyone would want an adult (or teen) animated show that isn't a Rick & Morty clone or hyper-violent

[past copper]

Haven’t seen the show yet, planning to, but considering what’s it about…

[spare fox]

oh yeah my S/O was watching that

[past copper]

And speaking of hyper violent… don’t think I have to mention Arcane do I?

[spare fox]

one show that I'd want an OW series to be like would be like My Adventures with Superman

[past copper]

Honestly great show ngl

[spare fox]

where the characters are adults, it's an adult show but not because of shock humor or scenes painted with blood and guts

[past copper]

Tho, I’d prefer this animation style instead

Another great show with S2 on the way

The story was great, the animation is on point, and the level of action/violence/fun moments is well balanced

Seriously, get the same team to make an Overwatch series

The show is produced by Legendary Pictures, with Crystal Dynamics, and animated by Powerhouse Animation.

[spare fox]

keep voicing that wherever you can

like, it's the reason 6v6, loot boxes came back, we got hero bans, etc

[past copper]

Gonna stop you right there. The one thing I’m not too sure about are hero bans

Really just see that as an excuse for players not to swap when they should, but let’s get into that here

[spare fox]

well the point is that they were vocally asked for repeatedly

[past copper]

Well here’s a voice to that. If they’re getting perks, then it really defeats the purpose to have hero bans if swapping won’t become a necessity anymore with said perks

[spare fox]

you might be right, but I think it's because their new "don't hold back on changes" philosophy

they figure they can put it out there and dial things back later

if needed

[spare fox]

https://youtube.com/shorts/fxAV0cpSuRc?si=rxYAazBrhg7q2_BX

Interesting

[keen summit]

He seems distracted

[weary quarry]

Sigma thing happened in ow1 as well

More obvious because he would appear on the main menu sometimes

[tulip nova]

what exactly is doom's place in the lore?

[keen summit]

talon leader

basically the main villain

[tulip nova]

🔥

[ionic summit]

idk. i feel like ramattra holds that crown right now. but he is one of the bigger villains yes

[keen summit]

well

who is influencing ram and stabbing him in the back?

[ionic summit]

are we sure doomfist is the main guy doing that? sure that cutscene from storm rising showed doomfist wanting to work with ramattra but how much of ramattra's plans are actually doomfist's doing? considering he ordered reaper, sombra and mauga to steal from one of his ships which he was aware ramattra would've noticed if not for mauga, i think it's safe to say not all is right there

[grand wedge]

we def need more insight with Doom / Ram alliance

Doomfist thinks that chaos is what makes humanity better. The weak die, the strong become stronger. Ramattra certainly brought chaos, and that's good for Doomfist's main goal.
But Ramattra should not be stronger than humanity, and Doomfist cover his back by sending Sombra, Reaper & Mauga to gather intell on Ram's technology.

[ionic summit]

doomfist wants humanity to become stronger through conflict and war while ramattra wants a better world for omnics by getting rid of humanity. one wants genocide while the other wants omnicide. they might see eye to eye a little bit but it will end eventually. and i'm not sure who will come out on top

[grand wedge]

Doomfist probably underestimate what Ram is capale of.

[loud raptor]

just heard a chat between echo and moira

is Aurora still around? suppose to be echo's predecessor

[twilit patrol]

Aurora is no more

For a very long time I think

She sacrificed herself to give sentience to omnics

[loud raptor]

oh nvm ... aurora is the cause of the awakening of the omnics

[twilit patrol]

Correct

[loud raptor]

yea just read it

and liao is also gone?

[twilit patrol]

Echo is a very advanced AI

[twilit patrol]

Yes

[loud raptor]

so echo will be the only one of her kind

[twilit patrol]

I guess because she’s not an omnic

[loud raptor]

unless liao saved all the research data into echo somewhere, so echo could reproduce herself

[twilit patrol]

I don’t think she did that ?

Idk

[loud raptor]

nah was just a guessing from my side

then again, if echo is so far more advanced, she could just do it / find out herself

like so many other ai's in other storys

is there also lore infos about juno's mom? mei's sister?

[twilit patrol]

Juno's mom is still on Mars

Juno is the only one who came on Earth to save her family

[loud raptor]

which is?

mei and?

[twilit patrol]

I mean those who stayed on Mars

[loud raptor]

oh

🙂

[peak escarp]

Juno's mom isn't Mei's sister

Jiayi was her classmate in grad school

[loud raptor]

and that's why she's calling her aunty?

lel

[peak escarp]

yes

it's common in many cultures to call your parents' friends "auntie/uncle"

I have an "uncle" who was a close friend of my dad's from high school

[loud raptor]

you still call him uncle?

[peak escarp]

yep

[loud raptor]

ok

[grave arch]

Guys my comp drive things dissappeared on my name how do i get it back i got kicked off the wifi earlier and since then its disappeared sending this here because I'm getting 0 help in other channels

[loud raptor]

drive isn't something you lose. it'll be there again

[grave arch]

Alright thanks

[vast swift]

winton

[vapid tusk]

Is it too farfetched to believe zen’s ult shape is related to aurora’s forehead

[shy dagger]

His ingame powers aren’t cannon to the lore

[vapid tusk]

I know but it’s still interesting to find a connection

[elfin bane]

are any of the characters canonically autistic

[opaque tundra]

Symmetra

It was first mentioned in her comic and then later expanded upon in her short stories

I’ve heard it’s pretty accurate representation too

[elfin bane]

YAY

[distant hamlet]

i call my close family friends aunt and uncle

[distant hamlet]

symmetra’s new dialogue in overwatch 2 is a great representation according to my roommate

[elfin bane]

it’s tru

[peak escarp]

stop pinging

[spare fox]

https://youtu.be/ETakemmrYu4?si=KN5XfT6RAWKBFlVD

Deemzies asks the iconic "is there magic in the overwatch universe?" and Dion answers with no, that magic is science we don't understand yet

So, the spirit animals are science

[peak escarp]

what does Dion Rogers do?

[spare fox]

Art director

[peak escarp]

so... not a writer

[spare fox]

But he is a director on the game

[peak escarp]

also saying "magic is just science we don't understand" doesn't make it not magic

[spare fox]

It's saying from our standpoint it appears to be magic but there is a scientific ground for it

Idk why you're disputing it, an authority at blizz confirmed something

[peak escarp]

magic is still magic even if it has a scientific explanation

Dion Rogers is not part of the narrative design team

[spare fox]

Ok but he has worked with them deeply for years I'm sure it's something he would know about the world

[peak escarp]

my first point still stands

and why is everyone so against it being magic?

[spare fox]

No one is against it, it was a question

[peak escarp]

lots of people are against it

[spare fox]

And Dion had an answer

Ok but the point is that

[peak escarp]

I've heard plenty of people complaining about Kiriko being magic

[spare fox]

Deemzies asked a question from his chat, "is there magic in overwatch universe?" And Dion explained that it is science, we just don't have an explanation yet

[peak escarp]

and?

[spare fox]

???

[peak escarp]

wrong chat

the general opinion in the community is that people don't want magic in Overwatch

[spare fox]

According to Dion, there isn't

[peak escarp]

according to Dion, "magic is just science we don't understand"

which is like saying "algrbra is just math I don't undersand" - doesn't mean it isn't still algebra

[spare fox]

I guess, like you'd explain to someone from the 17th century with no concept of electricity that the internet is magic

[peak escarp]

I'm curious to see what science could possibly explain the fox spirit

since Kiriko summons it without any visible device, and can teleport herself

[spare fox]

I'd theorize some kind of hard light offshoot

Be cause Symm also has teleport

[peak escarp]

but Symm puts down a device to teleport

a rather large one

[spare fox]

I'd guess that the hard light "device" is somehow implanted in a tattoo or tattoo- like procedure

[peak escarp]

on a child?

😬

[spare fox]

Sure, it's not impossible

It's "cultural"

I'm not saying it isn't questionable to our sensibilities

[fossil wren]

That doesn't make much sense to me

[peak escarp]

that vid was hard to watch

the audio was terrible

[spare fox]

Yeah

[spare fox]

Idk how to explain it bc obviously I didn't write the story behind it. It's like Star Trek, which is old school sci-fi, the aliens are always somehow analogous to humans which scientifically doesn't make sense because in reality aliens could be literally any kind of life form including ones our knowledge couldn't explain. That is kind of like what Overwatch is doing with the spirit animals. It's the fiction part of science fiction

Or, ugh, how the prequel trilogy explained The Force with science - miticlorians - which to an outsider and viewer appears to be magic, but there is an in-universe scientific explanation

[tulip nova]

there was never magic in overwatch before kiriko, and even the things like hanzo and genji dragon shit had a scientific explanation in the lore but kiriko is just there and is magic with no real explanation therefore ppl.getting mad abt it

[peak escarp]

I understand that

[tulip nova]

pretty dumb to just add a character with no real fit into the lore and shes just there (mainly for money because she was locked behind the bp)

afriad to say they pulled a fortnite

[spare fox]

There's still no magic in overwatch, it's all technology. They just haven't explained all of it yet.

[tulip nova]

kiriko like heavily resembles magic and hasnt been explained still,,, are we shore that she isnt magimc

[twilit patrol]

Well if magic doesn't really exist...

It's still confusing I agree

[spare fox]

Deemzies specifically asked, "is there magic in OW universe?" And the answer from Dion was, "magic is science we don't understand"

[tulip nova]

but as doctor six said its still called magic tho, no?

[spare fox]

We can extrapolate from that that we'd understand some OW things as "magic" but it's still grounded in science/tech

[tulip nova]

have they explained kiriko yet and the "science/tech" she uses?

[spare fox]

Nope

[tulip nova]

so magic untill explained

😊

[twilit patrol]

[tulip nova]

kiriko looks like magic so im calling it magic

with genji dragon stuff his mythic gives science explanation

[twilit patrol]

I understand

What's mostly intriguing is that she uses papers to heal

[tulip nova]

and they can literally just sense a person and home in on them

[faint oxide]

Genji skin magic

[tulip nova]

tf

[tulip nova]

❌

[twilit patrol]

Also spirits are magic

In general

[tulip nova]

indeed

the dragon become me

[twilit patrol]

So I'm really curious how can you explain that fox spirit is technology

[tulip nova]

you cant really

bad character design lore wise

pulled a fortnite as i said earlier

just tryna get that dinero

[peak escarp]

pulled a fortnite?

[tulip nova]

then they pump out skins for her when she cant be locked behind the bp anymore

[twilit patrol]

I don't know what that means ?

[peak escarp]

fortnite isn't the first game to sell characters

not even close

[tulip nova]

a lot of the stuff is overpriced or just a blatant waste of money but ppl buy it because its fortnite

also like cod

has a lot of dumb microtransactions in a 40 or 60 dollar game

[tulip nova]

like the chapter 2 og music mini season thing was so obviously for money and whatever its hilarious

[peak escarp]

of course they make things for money, the point of selling a product is to make money

games are a product

[tulip nova]

but not for the content, as most games are, its for the profit of epic

[peak escarp]

and Overwatch is for the profit of Blizzard

[tulip nova]

they also removed trading from rl iirc which makes people have to pay epic more money

[peak escarp]

what's your point?

[tulip nova]

nodders

just saying they could stop pumping out kiri skins and maybe give ram a lil something

poor guy has nothing

every like 2 seconds i see a kiri skin or some kiri cosmetic its lowk frustrating

[peak escarp]

I like the designs, so I don't care

[tulip nova]

oh theyre good but why cant literally any other character get designs that good instead of kiri

[peak escarp]

maybe the artists just like her better

[tulip nova]

maybe who knows

[spare fox]

she makes them money

it's the same reason why pokemon merch features pikachu 90% of the time

it's popular and recognizable

[gray pagoda]

Small question, I haven't found any vids yet , does juno have lore besides is from Mars?

[spare fox]

there's a whole thing with Lijiang Interstellar which is an overarcing story

[gray pagoda]

Ah gotcha , so I'm assuming not much on Juno yet?

Alot of the newer heros haven't had much content on their lore so anything after mauga I've no idea

[spare fox]

not her specifically it's more that there's the mystery of what Liucheng Interstellar is up to, why the Mars mission was sent there secretively, why LI lost contact with them

[gray pagoda]

Gotcha . I'm aware of the mystery somewhat through sigma (I'm new to the lore ) I've only been playing ow 1-2 years and only found out there's lore a week ago

Also Winton PFP goated

[peak escarp]

there's links to all the lore in the pins on this channel

and most of the regulars here can help with any questions

[past copper]

So I’m sure we’ll get a short before her release

What’s people expecting from Freja’s short?

[peak escarp]

the short should show her taking out the bounty Max hired her for

[spare fox]

i wonder if we'll get some flashback from before overwatch's shutting down with her too

[gray pagoda]

Im hoping to have an well fleshed out cinematic with some interactions with a few characters like max

[keen summit]

i hope so cuz itd need to explained how she went from search and rescue to search and kill

[gray pagoda]

I'm really looking forward to freja , I have a feeling she's gonna have some good interactions .

[keen summit]

im expecting that the short like the previous ones are about recent events, so taking the bounty max hired her for, then the comic will be about her past

juno hazard shorts were about their recent events, while their comic was about their past

even venture has this

[gray pagoda]

I'm gonna be real , I don't mind venture as a character but I find her lore boring .

Kinda feels like mei idk why

[keen summit]

not close

ventures lore is boring cuz theyre like the only "normal" character

they went to school, did an internship, liked it, stayed with that company and now they just do the job they enjoy

the weirdest thing is talon, but then again in irl archeology there have been poachers so its not too out there

theres no catastrophic thing, no traumatic experience or whatever, theyre just living their life without worries

[ionic summit]

Which makes the character less compelling. Sure don't need no traumatic experience to be compelling but you need at least something😭

[keen summit]

ngl i disagree

[ionic summit]

I hope they release another hero with similar lore to ram or illari tbh

[keen summit]

having 1 character be relatively normal and just enjoying life

[keen summit]

tbf like

all of the ow2 heroes except venture have had traumatic / sad stories

[ionic summit]

That is fine yeah. But that 1 character will be less compelling

[keen summit]

even there i disagree. cuz im ngl after the 5th sob story i kinda lose interest

venture is relatively normal, which makes them funnily enough an exception

[ionic summit]

So what, you'd rather just wanna see someone with a regular life? Nothing interesting going on at all?

[keen summit]

no?

im saying that the difference is the contrast

we got iirc 5 heroes in a row with sad extreme backstory

jq was the least extreme

but even there was dumped in the wasteland with her family

after a bit u grow kinda numb, venture kinda reset that counter for me

[ionic summit]

It being different doesn't make it better tho. If it was more interesting then i'd get it since we get something new and interesting but tell me, what does venture have in their lore to make it interesting exactly? If it's only the fact that it's not another sob story then that's not really a compliment😭

[keen summit]

but imho: it doesnt matter how sad the story is. venture perfectly is written as they would be in their story. theyre well written and imho pretty interesting cuz of it

[keen summit]

and for that, the fact that talon is interested enough in the artifacts to send mauga in?

a sad story isnt all there is to a character

u can have a sad story and have the hero not that well written

[ionic summit]

Mauga ain't exactly a trump card of theirs. I feel like they mostly just send him to test his loyalty tbh

[ionic summit]

True. And i'm not saying otherwise. A character doesn't need a sob story to be interesting. Just needs decent writing. But i just don't find venture's writing interesting in the slightest

[keen summit]

they are written well tho is my point

the thing is that they feel super normal, i believe that was intentional too tho

i believe cuz well, first non binary hero, they really wanted to make em normal

[ionic summit]

In a game with a talking space gorilla, a cyborg ninja, a man that controls gravity, a woman that can blink in time and a genetically engineered hamster, that feels a bit odd. It's as if you took characters from league of legends and then just randomly came a guy named Joe

[keen summit]

so they made venture basically very well, realistically normal. which i lowkey find interesting cuz i like the contrast to well all the warcriminals, larger than life characters and then theres venture, a relatively normal character

[keen summit]

thats exactly my point tho

venture is relative to the game normal

which is also why i find it funny when people call em weird

[ionic summit]

I get what you mean, but i just don't see it tbh. I get when studios bring a normal character to set the scale of them and the heroes but here? Venture is supposed to be one of the heroes but also normal. I can see why you think it works but me personally i just don't see it the same way tbh

[keen summit]

no worries i get that, and as ive said i also fully understand why most dont find em interesting

cuz well, out of all the heroes theyre the most normal, most drama free one

especially after ahem disease causing to be amputated on all limbs, your father getting kidnapped as your basically closes friends almost kill eachother, being left in a wasteland with your family, seeing your people slowly die out and nobody doing anything about it, your life work causing you to become a criminal after you refuse to give it to the evil corp, seeing everyone die around you etc its kinda

yeah

however i believe that because we got venture we also kinda got a reset on the fatigue of trauma filled super extreme stories

[ionic summit]

Yeah ram's lore is still the best imo

[keen summit]

which helps with the strength of say juno

ram is the best written in general

the biggest waste is sigma easily

like sigma is THE example of interesting premise but never being touched again

[ionic summit]

I would assume they just don't know what to do with him with him being used by talon. What they could do is have him slowly go against talon and have him at least trying to break free

[keen summit]

i just dont think they know what to do period

we know he was based on a scrapped kit for mauga

and so they created this really cool concept, with alot of depth as a concept etc

[ionic summit]

He was? Man i just cannot see that. They're not alike in the slightest😭

[keen summit]

just to then go "wait what now?"

[keen summit]

yup

this is confirmed

also explains why in what you left behind mauga had a shield

but u can probs think that ult and weapons were different

they then went "this doesnt fit mauga its too smart for him"

[ionic summit]

Yeah. Mauga can't control gravity exactly

[keen summit]

he can just

throw a rock tho

like realistically we can give alot of heroes sigmas ult, just change how its labelled

"ramattra carries everyone up with a swarm of nanites before slamming them down"

[ionic summit]

The ult that lifts enemies in the air then slams them back in the ground? I don't see a whole lot of heroes being able to do that

[keen summit]

and in fact he mightve had that ult, cuz early mauga also had crits on airborne chars

[keen summit]

for new heroes? absolutely

they can just bs cuz we didnt know what mauga could do except shield ( which now is gone) , being strong and guns

[rare trail]

erm

[keen summit]

they couldve just said they made a breakthrough in technology which they well did thanks to sigma

and now he can use tech to control gravity for limited amounts

[ionic summit]

You disagree?

[rare trail]

yes

rammatra
is so lazy and inconsistent and

dumb

[keen summit]

in fact they couldve said that anti grav tech is used to carry those guns

[keen summit]

where is he inconsistent

[rare trail]

doomfist is better written and his motivation is also meh

[ionic summit]

Elaborate please

[rare trail]

trying to kill kings row because some people in it are racist is dumb as fuck and not consistent with his short story

his actions in pve are far away from kings row and his short story

[keen summit]

thats consistent tho

[rare trail]

the whole thing with purplehead omnic thing from pve is dumb as hell

[keen summit]

he got more and more extreme

[ionic summit]

He attacked that city because it treated omnics badly. The exact thing he wants to end. He wants a better world for all omnics

[keen summit]

as he got left behind by everyone

he got more extreme

[keen summit]

but it makes sense for his mindset

[rare trail]

i wonder if killing hundreds of people with omnics will make there be less or more omnic hate

spoilers

its more

[keen summit]

he wants to put all the omnics to sleep so they cant fight back

[keen summit]

THATS WHY HES A VILLAIN!

[rare trail]

hes dumb as fuck

[keen summit]

cuz his viewpoint is flawed

[rare trail]

his motivation and actions dont line up

[keen summit]

they do tho

[ionic summit]

He doesn't care about the hate. He just wants omnics to have it better. And with how extreme he is now, he'd kill all of humanity to accomplish that

[keen summit]

the thing is, he doesnt realise that forcing "acceptance" wont work

[rare trail]

i want less omnic hate
proceeds to do something that will
obviously massively fuel
omnic hate

[rare trail]

more omnic hate means

worse conditions for omnics

[keen summit]

and that again IS THE POINT

that is litterally pointed out to him

[rare trail]

yeah hes a massive dumbass

[keen summit]

and he goes "we must take the choice from them"

he would basically make a world where youd be killed for omnic hate

[keen summit]

not really, hes just driven by anger to the point that he doesnt see the flaws

it is legit his character

that hes blinded by anger

[ionic summit]

Isn't like the main purpose of the final pve cutscene to show how mondatta wanted ramattra to strive for harmony and peace with humanity but ramattra abandoned that idea because of his anger?

[rare trail]

his character is heing a massive dumbass for fun

like

obviously kings row and just all
of pve will do more harm than good for omnics

[keen summit]

it is showing that he believes mondattas teachings arent good, because as he says in his short story "they grow content living in servitude"

[rare trail]

being "blinded by rage" doesnt excuse any and all illogical actions done by a character

[keen summit]

again, that is the point. it is showing that his reasoning is flawed but he likely got a yes man through doomfist and let his roughly 6 years of solitude stir his anger

[rare trail]

youndont get blinded by rage into planning and thinking about something for years

[ionic summit]

And that makes him a bad character how exactly? You're blaming a character because he makes mistakes?

[rare trail]

being illogical is bad yeah

[keen summit]

a character who is meant to not be a good person

[keen summit]

anger MAKES YOU ILLOGICAL

[rare trail]

hes going direvtly against his goals

[keen summit]

that is the point of ram, he is basically thinking shortterm

[ionic summit]

Name a single time you have thought logically while being angry😭

[rare trail]

angry people dont just do random shit for fun that hyrts them and their goals

[keen summit]

think about it like this: ram is short term. in the short term if he forces a place for omnics, in the short term they might have a better life. rams probem is that unlike mondatta who only did things for long term he only looks short term

[ionic summit]

Who said he was doing this for fun? He's doing it because he doesn't see any other path. He's set on the one filled with violence

[keen summit]

ram outright stated he doesnt like doing it

he feels like theres no other choice

the best way to look at him is by comparing him to his mirror, mondatta

mondatta only did things long term but didnt take action short term

[rare trail]

hes a massive dumbass who should obviously realize hes fueling omnic hate, being mad doesnt excuse being illogical and stupid

[keen summit]

ramattra is only taking action short term but it would harm omnic kind in the long run. thats the point

[rare trail]

in the short term ram isnt helping omnics

[keen summit]

he believes he is, because in the short term everone would be too afraid to do anything to an omnic

again

thats why hes a villain

[rare trail]

what the fuck are you talking about

racism is gone because null sector is attacking places??? who is afraid to attack omnics because of null sector???

[keen summit]

he is creating a world where theyre segragated and if a human tries anything, theyd be attacked.

[keen summit]

if he forces the world to listen

thing is

overwatch exists

[rare trail]

even if ram somehow had the resources to make a home
for omnics its still a shitty illogical plan that works against his stated goals of helping omnics everywhere

[keen summit]

his goal is put omnics to sleep till he achieved the promised land for his people. if he has that promised land his people would be free there, and the hypocricy in it is outright stated, that he is denying freedom

[rare trail]

everyone outside of his tiny omnic bubble would be fucked by omnic hate which is counter to what he wants

[keen summit]

and THAT IS THE POINT!

[rare trail]

hes a shitty dumb villain who cant stay consistent for the life of him

[keen summit]

this is stated to him

[ionic summit]

Which... is the point. He's become blinded by anger...

[keen summit]

and he believes that those deserve it

those who dont want to go for his freedom need the choice taken from them

[rare trail]

being "blinded by anger" doesnt make people do random shit against their best interest

[keen summit]

its not random tho

it all legit makes sense if you look at it from his side

thats the point

[ionic summit]

It makes your actions more aggressive and hostile. Which is what ram is doing

[keen summit]

it makes sense in his eyes because he believes theres no other path. reread reflections

his friends leave him because he was showing how fucked up he is

[rare trail]

"more aggressive and hostile" to murdering hundreds of people for living in a racist place is not like a character

[keen summit]

because he outright states that if omnics wont join him, he will take that choice from them

[rare trail]

its a cardboard cutout that does evil things for fun so robots can be the villain again

[keen summit]

yeah no, please reread reflections

[rare trail]

i habe

thats why im saying this

reflections doesnt match up
with the rest of his actions in pve

[keen summit]

it perfectly shows exactly why hes doing it, and also why its bad

[keen summit]

it does

[ionic summit]

He's angry with how humanity treats omnics. And he's gotten to a point where he will subjugate omnics and kill humans to keep omnics safe

[keen summit]

5 years roughly in solitude, taking the choice from them, attempting to force freedom, only using drones

hes putting them to sleep most likely to make sure they cant fight back

because he as he said "will make the choice for them"

everything lines up, its just that his plan is flawed. and at first with kingsrow he atleast had others to ground him, but those left him too

so now he only has his own opinions to let stir

[ionic summit]

Sidenote tho. Why did the omnic torb inspected have his personality deleted if that's what he wanted with them?

[keen summit]

and then he meets doomfist who likely fed him with more "a global war could save you!"

[keen summit]

it wasnt deleted, just surpressed iirc

basically to keep them down for now

[ionic summit]

"He's still alive, but it's like the essence of who he is... is gone" idk

[keen summit]

tbf isnt that coma for now?

cuz hes breathing but not there

[rare trail]

its kinda sloppy but ignthe vision is that torb doesnt really
know what hes talking about but in that case its a weird line to add and have him state like as fact

[ionic summit]

Idk tbh

[rare trail]

like it only really makes sense if the omnics are like fine and themselves after the thing gets taken off but torb implies that wouldnt happen so

[keen summit]

but basically rams situation is that of a person who say first did an attack to save his people, saw a friend die and got scorned by his mentor for doing "freedom fighting". your friends leaving you for your (flawed) ethics. being left alone in your thoughts for a few years before meeting someone, who then is basically saying you are right you SHOULD have a global war!

i think its very likely that rams current style is very much so manipulated by doom

because he at first wouldve likely focussed on actual bad places like say the wasteland, but then doom came in the mix and they likely made a deal

[ionic summit]

Do we know more about why doomfist wants another omnic crisis btw? Is it just to fufill his goal of "making humanity stronger through conflict" or is there more?

[keen summit]

he creates a global war as doom would want while he probs gains favors back. so imagine being already bad of mind and then constantly having a person go "your plans will fail, do what i say and cause a global war."

[keen summit]

well thats exactly what

he wants humanity to become stronger

and as doom would likely say "how can we call ourselves strong if we lose to our creation?"

talon profiteers from war, doom wants war cuz it forces people to adapt and kills the weak, creating theoretically a stronger humanity

his fatal flaw is well, what if the war wipes out humanity

[ionic summit]

That is exaxtly what they will do unless overwatch or talon stops them. This would be interesting if they actually end up showing it

[keen summit]

and my theory has always been that if the story continued, eventually echo was gonna find a way to well create new sentient omnics

fixing rams core problem

cuz rams core problem isnt opression, its time. he sees it as that there is no time with the limited amount of omnics who are sentient

[ionic summit]

I don't think ramattra's rage has any barriers so i think talon would have to step up eventually unless they want all of humanity dead

[keen summit]

if echo finds a way to fix that that wouldve likely stopped ram

cuz 1 he no longer has drones that are mindless, going against his 1 moral

and 2 his people have more time

[keen summit]

which is also why i think doom likely wanted the powersource

so he could check how his ships work and maybe create a counter measure

just so he can hold ram under his thumb better

because wanna know what is better for doom? global war on demand

and him being able to show with him, mauga, widow, sombra, reaper etc examples of such evolution

[ionic summit]

How would he know ram wouldn't notice tho? Was he confident the comms were cut/would be cut by his agents?

[keen summit]

cuz think about it, factually most heroes in ow are well, strengthened by conflict

it is why doom is so compelling

cuz he has a point

[keen summit]

well tbf, if we take rams base of operations in that transformers comic as reality imagine needing to keep track of it all

[ionic summit]

He does. It is interesting how as strong as doomfist is, it isn't his strength that makes him dangerous. It's his brains

[keen summit]

and his idealogy

cuz both in game but also irl, his reasoning is true

we have grown the most in conflict, in nature its the same, in fights, and in wars. because we are forced to adapt

but at the same time. is a stronger next generation worth killing off that much?

[ionic summit]

Fair. He wasn't able to focus on the attack in numbani and didn't know what happened there fully

[keen summit]

yeah, and the attack on numbani solidified my idea that doom is also infuencing him LOTS

its also the attack im most critical off writing wise

because that one, respectfully, doesnt make sense

[ionic summit]

Numbani is the one place omnics are safe so yeah. I don't get that one either😭

[keen summit]

thus i believe doom mightve been feeding lies

but yeah

that one im hella critical off

cuz that does go against it

[ionic summit]

Doomfist does have quarrel with numbani so makes sense he'd influence ram into attacking it

[keen summit]

yeah

but best written will always be between doom and ram

cuz both have idealogies you can get, stay quite consistent and you can actually get into their head and see how they think

like with doom i can relatively confidently predict plans he would have

same with ram

[ionic summit]

He attacks bases, steals rescources he needs. In other words, he's preparing for the war ramattra will bring

[keen summit]

i also wouldnt be surprised if he will sent talon somewhere to fight back null sector to show well, conflict burdened people being stronger than others

[ionic summit]

Use his agents as an example basically?

Sounds like something he'd do

[keen summit]

yeah, imagine showing mauga

[ionic summit]

Mauga would just tear 'em to shreds so yeah. Don't even think anyone else are needed😭

[keen summit]

imagine tho seeing that as a normal person

[ionic summit]

https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-gif-25786623

[gusty cloak]

not caught up with lore nor news, but i heard that the most of the lore team got fired when microsoft bought overwatch. is that true? and has that affected lore or is it still good?

[twilit patrol]

It is true

We still got lore

But the main story didn't move forward

We're not getting the next story missions for now

[gusty cloak]

oh

[twilit patrol]

They released Heroes Ascendant which is a book with 7 stories. They all set during the main story

[gusty cloak]

what is the current event in the main story right now? is it null sector invasion or has that passed?

[twilit patrol]

It's Null Sector global invasion

The PvE missions tell the main story

And the books/comics tell stories apart that set during the Null Sector global invasion

[keen summit]

it is kinda true, it is more of a partial truth cuz basically ALL the teams got big layoffs

[twilit patrol]

Yeah :/

[keen summit]

its not the entire lore team

its a large part of lore, map, hero etc etc etc

[twilit patrol]

I think they laid off the entire PvE team

[keen summit]

yeah

and now they rehired the director of pve

[twilit patrol]

I've heard that

[keen summit]

the pve team was layed off, but that doesnt mean pve will never come, in typical corporate way theyre keeping the door open

[twilit patrol]

We'll see

They're actively rethinking the way to tell the story I think

[gusty cloak]

that sucks

[twilit patrol]

At least we got some lore

I haven't read any story from Heroes Ascendant because I hate reading but I still love that they're telling stories apart with books/comics

[gusty cloak]

wish they released lore through cinematics more

even tho ik they're expensive to make

[twilit patrol]

Yeah cinematics were good

Sojourn cinematic is mid but it was good when it released because it served as a launch for PvE

[keen summit]

i love reading so i was in luck

[gusty cloak]

cinematics recently have worsened tho

[keen summit]

ehhh

[gusty cloak]

juno cinematic felt off, and hazard cinematic was complete trash

[keen summit]

other style

[keen summit]

theyre an other style

[gusty cloak]

not the style imo, hazard cinematic made no sense

[keen summit]

theyre going for that valorant style

[keen summit]

wdym

[twilit patrol]

Ah I never liked reading but I like the efforts they make

[keen summit]

keep in mind part of my job is reading legal texts, reading jobs contracts etc etc

i need to know the exact terms of things so i can predict the price we can ask realistically

[gusty cloak]

like hazard putting that purple ooze and still turning out fine, being able to completely control his powers immediately. the whole setup of the cinematic was strong either

[twilit patrol]

I see

[keen summit]

i mean

i agree on that first part

[twilit patrol]

Tbh I like Juno cinematic a lot

[keen summit]

it is kinda a copout with haz

[twilit patrol]

Hazard cinematic is clearly disappointing

[keen summit]

they shouldve made him more lose control first

then slowly gain control

or had him first without that device

and it failing

so then eventually theyd try again with the device

[gusty cloak]

i like the style but it was just juno kicking a rock for 5 minutes

[twilit patrol]

I don't know how they could reach this thing in Oasis

How do we call that ?

[keen summit]

isotope

[twilit patrol]

Thanks

[keen summit]

was its official name

[twilit patrol]

That's the isotope

[keen summit]

i am not as good as Six

[twilit patrol]

Yeah that's not what I really like in the cinematic

[keen summit]

but yeah, its weird how there was 0 gaurding

yknow, my main problem with hazard is simple

[twilit patrol]

I mostly like that she says good bye to everyone

[keen summit]

they couldve done SO much more with his attack

[twilit patrol]

Yeah

[keen summit]

like

oh hey he was injured by overwatch, so make it more personal, make that moira first offered to "fix" him

before he could get away and then came with the phreaks

[gusty cloak]

that was exactly what i thought what i thought the phreaks would be when we got their in game teaser

[keen summit]

make it more of a revenge for him and then actually using her stuff against her will

[keen summit]

same

[gusty cloak]

like they would have some sort of revenge story against moira

[keen summit]

but they turned out to just be body modders

[gusty cloak]

wouldve been more interesting than whatever we got

what even was their motive? do they hate moira or they just wanted to steal that thing for no reason?

[keen summit]

i thought theyd be victims of human experimentation or mutants

[keen summit]

nono

[twilit patrol]

Ah yeah I wanted to say

[keen summit]

nothing with moira

[gusty cloak]

exactly

[twilit patrol]

I thought we were going to have mutants and shit

[keen summit]

they just saw that thing and went "aight thats ours"

cuz it could be used for body modding

[gusty cloak]

man they had so much potential and they decided to settle on this

[keen summit]

moira has nothing to do with it in reality

thats why i wished they went for well, moira wanted to experiment on him

so it would be retribution

you could even insinuate that maybe talon and moira lready had connections and they shot the ship down to get more victims

it couldve lead to so much more interesting things than "they just saw it and wanted to steal it

[random frost]

Is there cowboy lore

[astral haven]

If Ana didn't hesitate to kill Widow. Do you think Widow would be dead? And is Ana canonically the better sniper than Widow? Or is that just up to interpretation?

[peak escarp]

if Ana didn't hesitate, Widow would be dead

[fossil wren]

Ana is a better sniper than Widow

Many of their interactions show this, especially with Soldier

[merry token]

Deadlock Gang -> Blackwatch -> Overwatch

[fossil wren]

Wrong

Deadlock Gang -> Blackwatch -> Bounty Hunter -> Overwatch

[clear nacelle]

Terrible Italian accent

[merry token]

I’m so sorry for my mistake, rodrixs., I’ll do better next time.

[fossil wren]

I was just joking but oki!

[empty jacinth]

is there a lore reason for why widow maker wont tell ramattra if she misses or not

[fossil wren]

Ask Mondatta

Seriously, Idk widowmaker is like that with everyone

[empty jacinth]

perplexing

[loud marsh]

The voice lines are not necessarily true to lore

[marble charm]

^^

I would say though its because she doesn't work for rammatra

She works for Talon

Oh and also "do you really think I'd have missed?"

[empty jacinth]

Tru

[kindred pecan]

nice voice btw

[loud raptor]

willm daFOOOOEEE

[hollow lantern]

Yep, it’s if they were to ever meet in person it’s possible talk between them both

[grand wedge]

Updated tablet on Circuit Royal casino :

I have your marks. Waiting on payment.
Hello?
M4rquis?
Your transfer failed. I’m running out of patience.
Don’t be mistaken. I can find anyone.
Even you.

[peak escarp]

Max is in trouble

[grand wedge]

Either from the bounty hunter, or from the thing that prevented him to pay the bounty....

And, new computer screen :

The arabic text on the left is some kind of global mail sent to everyone to tell them about the incident and how the security and control will be enforced.
source => https://fixupx.com/HazeletOW/status/1892213398462431454

[keen summit]

Rip max

[keen summit]

I THINK sombra mightve helped with what theyre saying

[marble charm]

Yea probably

Which is why Moira is being all

"Man idk ask someone else"

[spare fox]

https://x.com/OWCavalry/status/1892339661315420500?t=-MQOa9EMZgg3WRGt0rEN9g&s=19

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry) on X

Blizzard Accidentally Tease Hero 45 in #Overwatch2 🏟️

A placeholder description reading "Gladiators Gonna Gladiate" has appeared, further supporting the idea that the upcoming hero will be a gladiator with a giant sword.

X · Feb 19, 2025, 10:25 PM

Speculation 👀

[twilit patrol]

[fallow mantle]

called it! 😄

[turbid merlin]

What is the lore behind anubis?

[opaque tundra]

God AI made for regulating climate change. Decided humanity was the problem and started the Omnic Crisis to eradicate them. He controlled all the omnics in the world and was quarantined after Overwatch metaphorically and literally beat him up

[boreal plinth]

roadhog is the most built person in overwatch

[spare fox]

And the only hero with jiggle physics as part of his actual body lol

[grave frost]

How much of Reinhardt is muscle compared to armor, because he is a chunky boy

[spare fox]

Look at the Honor and Glory cinematic, the framing scenes that show him talking with brig

[peak escarp]

he's pretty beefy under that armor

[grave frost]

Bro had a rack in the womb Jesus ToT

[spare fox]

To answer your question: he's a huge guy with huge armor

[grave frost]

At that point why even wear armor his sheer muscle is enough to stop a bullet

[spare fox]

easier to repair armor than treat a wound?

[peak escarp]

he's still human

not even augmented like Soldier or Reaper

[spare fox]

yea he still gets injured as seen in the Brigitte origin video

oh and he lost an eye from not wearing a helmet

[peak escarp]

as always, the strongest armor is plot armor

[marble charm]

For a second I was like "huh no? They're supersoldiers"

But then I double checked and yea they're not

[merry mason]

You know I’m a little disappointed because I was hoping whatever gladiator we got would be based on the dual wielding statue on colesseo

[spare fox]

Well look how much Hazard changed from his dev doodle

Don't worry about it, it's way too early

[merry mason]

Yeah But if anything they would stray further from any previous concepts not pivot back

[grand wedge]

The long awaited Italian hero will be a Colosseo badass gladiator fighter ahah

Joke aside, I kinda thought the gladiators were fighting on giant humanoid mechs, idk why I thought that?

[mortal spruce]

Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead to give us the free gift of eternal life in heaven and promised to heal your body. Just Look up and ask Him.

[weary quarry]

[keen summit]

i dont get where u got giant from but mechs aint that shocking the gladiators look robotic

[keen summit]

where was this found tho

[grand wedge]

some wishful thinking on my part, probably 😅

[grand wedge]

in game, it was still there yesterday

and the little doodle was on the spotlight (I think?)

https://x.com/OWCavalry/status/1890166537031676166

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry) on X

First Look at New #Overwatch2 Hero ⚔️

This doodle features an unknown sword-wielding character, resembling the placeholder hero artwork used by Team 4.

📸 Image Credit: @ChristalRaine

X · Feb 13, 2025, 10:29 PM

[keen summit]

thanks

i had to get a concrete source you know me

[grand wedge]

Asking for sources is a must tbh!

[peak escarp]

not giant mechs, but they do fight remotely through robots/drones

[bitter sedge]

any new lore?

[bitter sedge]

still there I think, check the filter, select unknowned.

[merry mason]

Life weaver still gets money from his parents but he gives it all to charity

[chrome sand]

Does symmetra like life weaver? I thought she was a villian

[merry mason]

Why do people keep thinking this? Even if it’s technically true it’s not like she acts particularly villainous. Like, what gets a new player to conclude that she is evil?

[distant hamlet]

they were roommates in college. lifeweaver thinks of them as besties. symmetra acts very grumpy towards him but probably secretly cares about him

[chrome sand]

And her beef with lucio?

[distant hamlet]

i wasn’t aware she had any

what’s the voice line?

[chrome sand]

I thought she tried to kill lucio?

[chrome sand]

I heard in a book lucio tried to take down vishkar

[merry mason]

they never met before. sym works for vishkar but she either isn't aware or doesn't approve of their more brutal methods.

[merry mason]

but where do you hear this stuff i genuinely want to know where the sym slander is coming from

[sullen girder]

Ok can we discuss dokiwatch for a sec? Based on the skins we saw, I’m assuming dva is the villain next season?

[peak escarp]

D.va is one of the dokiwatch girlies

[fossil wren]

Ramattra will be the villain, Trust

[sullen girder]

I mean black and purple is usually the signs of the villain girls, at least for the theme that they are going for, at least in my experience

[ionic summit]

Aight i needa know. Been wondering for years. Do we have an actual reason for how zenyatta floats?

[bitter sedge]

Does he tell his parents though 😄

[fluid stump]

Rammatra has a voice line that asks him, zenyatta just says it's because of the iris

[opaque tundra]

Sigma has that line not Ramattra

[fluid stump]

Oh, my bad

[spare fox]

RE: Symmetra being a villain. I personally think she wants to act for good and improve the world using her technology. It's for this reason she doesn't want to give up on Vishkar and its original mission. She doesn't agree with or like Sanjay but she doesn't want to give up on the potential of Vishkar to ultimately do good in the world

She may try to change it from the inside or Sanjay may catch on to her, we're not sure what's going to happen next, obviously

[peak escarp]

Vishkar itself is a neutral faction

or at least they present themselves as neutral

maybe good leaning, since they appear to want to do good and make a better world

Sanjay presents a complication - does Vishkar know about his involvement with Talon and his sabotaging their competitors? do they condone his actions? or does he keep them in the dark and present himself as the dutiful worker who believes in Vishkar's mission

[grand wedge]

They’ve never met. She just knows that Lucio rebeled against Vishkar and stole their technology (even if it was Lucious father who invented it)

[grand wedge]

There is a full short story where Symm met Lifeweaver years after he left Vishkar academy. They were best friends and roommates then.
You can read the story here https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/stories/rebuilding-ruins/

[bitter sedge]

New lore drop recently or no?

[hushed jetty]

nothing big but people have said that the tablet on Oasis has changed

it now reveals that max has not paid freja and is ghosting her

[bitter sedge]

Sighh, poor freja.

[chrome sand]

Has ashe done anything else in the lore?

[halcyon glen]

hey any egirls wanna talk about some lore in dms??? (:

[spare fox]

more like Poor Max, I'm pretty sure the implication is that something happened to him

[modern tundra]

🤡

[fossil wren]

the only way anyone left Talon is in a coffin

[bitter sedge]

Hello

[bitter sedge]

I mean, either he died or Talon pressured the guy to give them all his money.

[opaque tundra]

I really don’t think Max is getting killed off lol

[spare fox]

I don't think he's killed either, just in trouble

he's made so many enemies

[bitter sedge]

Right, Blizzard will milk the guy's back story, I am calling it.

Not a bad thing, infact, I want more lore of any kind at this point.

[past copper]

Talon can't afford to kill Max right now. The man is too much of an asset, which means killing would cripple Talon's finances

And he has too much information on Talon that if something were to happen to him, they potentially risk him leaking secrets upon his death

[spare fox]

That knee-jerk "blizzard bad" comment jeez. It's basic storytelling that's all

[spare fox]

That's in response to the"blizz milking the backstory" comment

[distant hamlet]

how is it “milking” she’s not even out as a playable hero yet and we haven’t gotten lore in ages

[peak escarp]

"milking it" is Blizzard releasing Heroes Ascendant in March then slowly releasing most of the stories for free online one by one over the course of a year

exploring a hero's backstory isn't milking it

[spare fox]

I also think they did that bc they didn't release Heroes Ascendent internationally/as an ebook too in addition to that. But also, we're due for more stories now lol

[opaque tundra]

Honestly I think we’re overdue for a novel

There’s so much potential with novels but gamers are allergic to reading

[spare fox]

I mean, I love reading

I've read all the ow books at least twice atp

[elfin bane]

baptist be like

[tall fog]

whos a better support rn kiriko or juno?

[loud marsh]

Kiriko's story is full of time holes, so Juno I guess

[ionic summit]

Kiriko's lore just pisses me off tbh. It's so rushed and forced it's actually insane. They didn't even try😭

[dapper light]

Is Bastion gay?

[young urchin]

probably

[spare fox]

he likes birb

[dapper light]

a certified zoophile😎 👍

[cold berry]

they literally just shoved her in

[spare fox]

well, while they probably won't ever admit that certain heroes are less important than others (because in reality it doesn't really work that way), there are inevitably going to be heroes that are only circumstantially relevant to the main plotlines

heroes like Kiriko, Lucio, Hazard, Ashe...

they can't all be Sombra or Reaper or Soldier 76, that would be an impossible story to maintain

[fossil wren]

Well, Hazard and the phreaks could really get to something more

But Deadlock Gang or Kiriko don't have much to do since they are in a specific area of the world

[spare fox]

well, anything's possible and they likely don't want to rule anything out - in fact I'm sure they write themselves open-ended outlines for this situation

[fossil wren]

Yeah but some characters are just too forced when Blizzard introduced them to the story

Juno for example

Juno is excessively forced her inclusion in the lore

I honestly feel like Blizzard doesn't put as much effort into the lore of the characters anymore, They just add them to add something to the game, It's not like before when they gave hints either on the map or previous mentions of the character

[peak escarp]

Juno was hinted at/referenced by a voice line

on Lijiang Tower Mei mentions her friend from grad school - Jiayi

Jiayi is Juno's mother

[fossil wren]

Totally forget what I said, Blizzard keep cooking the way you do 🙏

[peak escarp]

the post-launch heroes that weren't hinted at in some way were Orisa, Ashe, Baptiste, Sigma, Lifeweaver, Illari and Venture

Ana was seen in the "Are You With Us?" trailer
Sombra was mentioned in Reaper voice lines (plus the Sombra ARG)
Doomfist was mentioned in the announcement cinematic back in 2014
Moira was seen in the comic "Masquerade"
Brigitte was seen in the comics "Dragon Slayer" and "Reflections" and the cinematic "Honor and Glory", as well as a couple in-game sprays
Wrecking Ball was seen in posters on the Junkertown Map and had a room on the Horizon Lunar Colony map
Echo was seen in the cinematics "Reunion" and "Zero Hour"
Sojourn was the mission commander for the Archives mission Storm Rising
Junker Queen was heard speaking on the Junkertown map
Kiriko was alluded to a document found on the Kanezaka map
Ramattra was seen at the end of the Archives mission Storm Rising
Mauga was a major character in the short story "What You Left Behind"
Juno's mother was mentioned in Mei's voice line
Hazard was alluded to on the Oasis University map
Freja was alluded to on the Circuit Royal map

[rare trail]

not reallyyy

its like only a couple yearsss and ages are hard to tell based off like 3 images

[crude monolith]

hmm

[ionic summit]

True, but they didn't even try with Kiriko. The ages are off, she's in a premade story that was loved by many, her kitsune makes no sense and overall she just has alot of issues

[rare trail]

not that off bro

and kitsune is like not really an issue

overwatch having no magic has been wacky as hell since spirit dragons

and the ages arent that offf

its never said they grew up together they just trained together

[fossil wren]

I was wondering, what abilitys are canon in the Lore?

[rare trail]

theres an incomplete list in pins

if you have any questions abt specific abilities i can probably answer

[fossil wren]

Zen and Sigma not having any canon abilities is pretty funny to me

[rare trail]

hyperspheres is kinda canon a little

[fossil wren]

Well, there are crazier things than a spirit fox

[rare trail]

for real

[fossil wren]

I mean there is Baptiste immortality field (I don't see any logical way that makes sense) or Zenyatta and his iris powers

Or the guy who controls gravity

[peak escarp]

or a genetically enhanced giant hamster in a talking mech

[fossil wren]

His interactions with Kiriko are funny

[peak escarp]

    Kiriko: Is it because he looks delicious?
    Wrecking Ball: He says, "Yes, and damn right I do."```

best one

[fossil wren]

Why is the hamster so rude?

Not even Reaper the edgy lord is as rude as Hammond

[peak escarp]

Junkertown does that to you

[fossil wren]

makes sense

[cloud otter]

junkrat isnt rude tho

i guess its more cause winston left hammond on lunar colony

if im correct

[peak escarp]

Hammond felt forgotton

which he technically was

[cloud otter]

poor hammy

[fossil wren]

And then there's that interaction where he insults Brig in so many ways that the translator refuses to translate it

[peak escarp]

but he also felt replaced by Overwatch, since they were Winston's new friends

[fossil wren]

Winston: Hammond, we were friends on Horizon. Where did we go wrong?
Wrecking Ball: Perhaps it was when you stole his rocket design.
Winston: Oh no! I found that in the system. It was an accident!
Wrecking Ball: Was it also an accident when you left for Earth without him?

To be honest I would be angry too

[peak escarp]

from Thoughtless Gods:

piggybacked on his escape?”
Hammond looks away, scowling.
She gazes at him appraisingly. “And you never let him know that you were okay. Never went to see your best friend. Perhaps to join Overwatch with him.”
He glares at her and chatters emphatically, spitting on the floor for good measure.
The mech whirs. “He stole . . . untranslatable. Rodent profanity detected.”
She raises her hands in mock surrender. “I see. A sensitive subject. But still, why wouldn’t you find him? You both made it out, after all.”
Hammond begins to snarl in response but stops. That has never occurred to him. He growls
softly.
The mech translates: “He has new friends.”
“And you’ve been hiding from the world in your little ball ever since. Just a frightened rodent.”
He chitters flatly. “There was something to fear. But the hamster is no longer afraid.”```

easily one of the best stories from Heroes Ascendant, I highly recommend it

[fossil wren]

What is Hammond doing right now in Lore?

[peak escarp]

he's hanging out with Junker Queen as her enforcer

[ionic summit]

The spirit dragons were thought to be magic, they are now said to be hardlight. Okay, sure. Then kiri comes in. Surely her kitsune is hardlight too, right? Nope. That shit is real. Fuck you. Deal with it

[fossil wren]

It's science we don't understand

[ionic summit]

Aight calm down zenyatta

[fossil wren]

The Iris is a pathway to many abilities some are considered to be unnatural

[ionic summit]

Aka, magic blizzard won't admit is magic

[fossil wren]

You don't get it, no one should know that Overwatch is actually Future Warcraft

[ionic summit]

😭

[fossil wren]

Don't worry, I'm sure Blizzard won't release another rare magic hero again

[ionic summit]

Surely

[fossil wren]

Unless Aqua does something weird like summon the spirit of a hurricane or some shit like that

At this point, looking for logic in Kiriko makes no sense, I mean Reaper also does magic

Where the hell does he get so many shotguns?

[peak escarp]

that's just a gameplay mechanic

the most we've seen him use in the lore is 2 pairs, so he could easily hide the second pair in his coat

[fossil wren]

I know, I'm just kidding

But at this point there are so many absurd abilities that discussing Kiriko wacky magic fox spirit is pointless

[peak escarp]

yeah

[cloud otter]

is there a lore reason as to how sigma uses accretion to turn stuff into health

[peak escarp]

no

[rare trail]

no they are not

[spare fox]

Right, we never got confirmation what the spirit dragons were, only that the Shimadas can wield them

The dragons being hard light is only a theory or a hypothesis

[ionic summit]

Didn't one of the comics confirm they were hardlight?

[rare trail]

no

there was a kiriko short story a bit ago that said smth

but not hardlight

[spare fox]

right and we know that Kiriko's father is the one who smithed the weapons the Shimadas used, he's making weapons for the Hashimoto now but they aren't the same quality

shoddy spirit tiger when?

[fallow mantle]

I fr thought they would give Hashimoto Hanzo tigers instead lmao

The fact they didn't confused me

[spare fox]

probably too much work

[rare trail]

lowkey lame

feels like a p big retcon dragons pretty clearly implies they are magic and tied specifically to shimadas

especially hanzo saying "only a shimada can control the dragons" or whatever doesnt really track now because like

if genji had tied and some assassin robot stole his weapon the same thing wouldve happened

it feels like they wanted an explanation that wasnt spirits for ??? reason and tried to make it fit with dragons but it doesnt rlly track

[spare fox]

it's not a retcon at all tho,
the weapons they use are specialty weapons that were made only for them

but now that weaponsmith is kidnapped and being forced to make them for the hashimoto, but he doesn't do his best quality like he did for the Shimada clan

and we never got an explanation of how the dragons or fox spirit work but as per the devs, it's science that hasn't been explained yet

[rare trail]

it is though

its insane for hanzo to be confused when anyone couldve just picked up genjis weapon off his corpse

[spare fox]

no it's not

it could be that only the shimadas get a special training to use them

it could be that the spirit are configured to their genetics or other physiology

there are a few reasonable explanations other than retcon

[rare trail]

not really

it reads very strange for hanzo to say that if not only the shimadas can use the dragons, just people with weapons made by sojiro

its clearly implied that the dragons are spirits in the cinematic and it was changed later to be tech

which sucks ass esp when kiris is allowed to just be a spirit like they should

and ur kinda doing the writing for the writers by saying they have a "genetic lock or need special training" like thats never stated anywhere

[spare fox]

you're "doing the writing" too by inserting unsubstantiated claims and then using those claims to declare it a retcon

[rare trail]

no im not ??

"only a shimada can control the dragons" when that is just not true 😭 hanzos previous statement is just false

[spare fox]

this is not clearly implied at all, all Hanzo says is that only Shimadas can wield the dragons

[rare trail]

hes just wrong there, it doesnt make sense with current information, thats what a retcon is

[rare trail]

yeah and thats not true

hes wrong

[peak escarp]

Hanzo is also a very dramatic person

[spare fox]

who else has controlled the dragons then?

[peak escarp]

it's in character for him to say that "only a Shimada can control the dragons" when it's just a proprietary tech that only their family has access to

and to Hanzo's credit, we have not seen a non-Shimada use a (properly made) dragon weapon, so that statement holds true

retcons aren't a bad thing, and are inevitable when a project goes through so many different writers/writing teams, but I don't think this is a case of retcon

[rare trail]

no one else has but other people can

especially since genji is dead and where his special sword went is unknown to hanzo

it dowsnt make sense

its a retcon

[peak escarp]

how do you know other people can?

just having the sword probably isn't enough to activate the dragon

[spare fox]

you don't know what a retcon is
I repeat, who else can control the dragons?

[spare fox]

exactly, or else Hanzo would have asked where the assasin (Genji) got Genji's sword

[rare trail]

tthe line in kirikos story doesnt make sense if other people cant

why would they blame the tech if its impossible

[rare trail]

according to kiris story, anyone with the sword could

[rare trail]

also retcons are bad

theyre inevitable with this many writers and this much time but they are bad

[peak escarp]

something wrong with them, making their energy fields unstable. They must have tried to copy the design of the Shimada family’s blades, the only ones to use such technology. And it seemed they weren’t comfortable using them.```

[rare trail]

retroactively going back to change something and breaking the rules of your universe is bad

[peak escarp]

it doesn't seem like they could use the dragon weapons if they had them - they can barely use these

[rare trail]

the text says "their energy fields unstable"

i mean it partially blames
the people ay the end talliny abt how they arent comfortable using them but its heavily implied that if they had shimada tech they could

[peak escarp]

"they weren't comfortable using them"

also, these aren't dragon weapons

they're imitations of dragon weapons

you're making a lot of assumptions here

[rare trail]

what assumptions am i making

its stated that their tech is wonky so they cant do what genji and hanzo do

my assumption is that with shimada tech they could?? thats like basically stated and a completely natural logical conclusion

[peak escarp]

how is that stated?

[rare trail]

and with that conclusion it messes with dragons because hanzos thought process doesnt make sense if its just tech

[rare trail]

it literally compares it to shimada tech 😭

like

[peak escarp]

they're similar but not the same as Shimada tech

[rare trail]

yeah its a shitty version of shimada texh

[peak escarp]

being able to use imitation weapons doesn't mean they could use the real thing

[rare trail]

its never shown or stated that hanzo and genjis weapons cant be used by anyone else

[peak escarp]

except for when Hanzo said only the Shimada family can use them

[rare trail]

especially since kiris story shows that spirit summoning isnt a bloodline thing its a tech thing

like the story says they cant use spirits because they have shitty tech and "arent confortable" its a completely logical conclusion to think that with good tech and idk practice ? that they would be able to

[peak escarp]

unless they don't have the right password or whatever

I couldn't use someone else's phone even though my phone is almost the same

[rare trail]

if you saw someone using a dead persons phone would you be shocked and be like holy shit what the fuck only that guy can use that phone

[peak escarp]

it would be more "why do you have access to that person's phone?"

[rare trail]

like 😭 its a much more natural assumption from hanzo to assume someone stole the sword if someone else is using the sword

[rare trail]

yeah

[peak escarp]

it's possible Hanzo doesn't recognize the sword until the dragons are used

[rare trail]

me personally if i see someone using my dead brothers magic sword i say "why would you steal his sword" rather than "wtf thats impossible"

[peak escarp]

it's pretty ordinary looking

well you're not Hanzo

like I said, Hanzo is very dramatic

he breaks into his former home once a year, fighting his way through goons just to light incense for a brother he thought he killed

he's very EXTRA

so it makes sense for him to say "only a Shimada can control the dragons" and not "how did you get my brother's sword?"

[rare trail]

being dramatic isnt the same as being dumb 😭

[peak escarp]

the fact remains that the Shimada dragon weapons are some kind of proprietary tech that only the Shimada family had access to

the existence of imitation weapons doesn't change that

[rare trail]

i mean like

one of those weapons is lost

[peak escarp]

which is why I think that just having the weapon isn't enough

there has to be something else - biometrics, a password, something - in order to activate the weapons

which would make Hanzo's statement make sense

it's possible the imitation weapons have the same security feature for their weilders and it just isn't mentioned

only the Hashimoto can control the shitty energy weapons

[marble charm]

Would it be wrong to say the reason only a shimada can use them is because they're voice activated!?!

Obviously genjis voice changed following the whole cyborg stuff but

'Only a shimada can use the Dragons' and they use their ult voice line in the cinematic to use the dragons

[minor musk]

i think they just say it

because it makes sense

hanzo is literally sending out dragons to consume his foes

and genji is making him taste the wrath of the dragon god

so

i feel like the shimada dragons are spiritual

the clan is associated with the dragon god (ryujin)

[shy dagger]

Who is this woman from Sombra’s backstory and do we know anything about her?

[rare trail]

iirc in zero hour genji uses the dragon without saying anything but im not sure

[minor musk]

i think this is real

[woven nest]

that’s the only time we ever see her

someone on twitter gave her a name but it’s unofficial they’re like the only one who cares about her existence

[hushed jetty]

he does say it, its just kinda quiet

[hollow sonnet]

not the same sword? he could have lost the original when he nearly deaded

[soft carbon]

As I said earlier in this channel.

[ionic summit]

Doesn't look like she is of much importance. Looks like she's just someone who works with cybernetics

[loud marsh]

I don't understand how they're possibly tech

[sudden dagger]

is ramattra the best written ow character