lore-discussion

[rain marlin]

Unstable

Sadly we only have 1 sigma drawing of his condition without it

But also even then he has some gear

[tranquil orbit]

Tracer's suit isnt what keeps her stable it's the chronal accelerator

[rain marlin]

I know

When I say suit

I mean her thing

The accelerator

[tranquil orbit]

I wouldnt think too deep into it it's just a suit for him as subject sigma

The only thing moderately unstable abt him is weird gravitational fields

Hence why sigma floats

[rain marlin]

Is that confirmed?

Is that his only condition???

I believe he had more conditions but that’s just my own speculation

[tranquil orbit]

He has mental conditions asw

[autumn adder]

idk i think its just that

[tranquil orbit]

Which we dont know the full extent of

[autumn adder]

besides the mental issue

[rain marlin]

Sigma is just a really good character

[tranquil orbit]

But he creates weird gravitational anomalies around him

[rain marlin]

But we get nearly nothing

To him

They need to do a sigma lore expansion

We only know the base things

[autumn adder]

yea 📄📄📄📄📄📄📄📄📄📄📄

[tranquil orbit]

I think at least half of that is because he was going to be a boss of sorts in pve

Just a theory

So they mightve been keeping details under wraps on purpose

[autumn adder]

i think the suit at lease helps him but it be a waste to not talk about it lore wise

[tranquil orbit]

Ofc all of that would hypothetically be in the dumpster now but yh

[autumn adder]

i mean we have the water skin right ?

[tranquil orbit]

The problem is that there is no consistent "suit"

[rain marlin]

Skins aren’t canon

[autumn adder]

daym

my love for u is slender

didnt they cancle pve?

[tranquil orbit]

Yh pretty much

[rain marlin]

If skins are canon than junkrat would be a

Mafia boss
Scientist
Mechanic

[autumn adder]

smart man

[tranquil orbit]

Obvs they havent outright confirmed it but it's as good as gone

[rain marlin]

Yea

[tranquil orbit]

Most of the writers working on it are gone

And even if they were to get new ones they probably wouldn't want to do the story in the exact same way

[autumn adder]

i hate it

https://tenor.com/view/tom-y-jerry-tom-and-jerry-meme-sad-cry-gif-10768258471804618614

give me back my game !

if pve is gone then the reason ow 2 exist is for nothing

[tranquil orbit]

Tbh i imagine that theyll rebrand at some point

[autumn adder]

yea

[past copper]

Yo! I like how an artist took this interaction and ran with it

Makes me wonder what would happen if these two met

[spare fox]

i do that with most of the heroes tbh

I want more than an interaction or two, I want like an entire episode

[bronze hedge]

an illustration of sigma and zen's interaction would be so funny

[patent trench]

Was Zarya just a solider or was she like a commander during the omnic crisis

[peak escarp]

her rank is Sergeant

[fallow mantle]

During the Omnic Crisis, she was a child

[patent trench]

i thought she fought in the crisis?

[fallow mantle]

In the second one, yeah - she's currently fighting in it

[peak escarp]

the only heroes who fought in the Omnic Crisis are Ana, Soldier, Reaper, Torbjorn, Reinhardt and Sojourn

the rest are either too young or weren't soldiers

[vital ocean]

Bastion

[fallow mantle]

Ramattra

and Doomfist

[zenith mango]

i need hanzo riding on orisa as a feature

[smoky tendon]

what a preposterous thought...

[grand wedge]

Doomfist the first, not the present Doomfist

[fallow mantle]

Our Doomfist lost his arm during the Crisis

[merry mason]

Not to combat

[peak escarp]

Akande was a civilian during the crisis

and Bastion failed to deploy during the crisis

I did forget Ramattra

and Zenyatta probably did too (against his will)

[merry mason]

Well technically speaking he didn’t have a will yet

[fallow mantle]

Bastion fought in the Crisis but was damaged in one of the final battles so didn't partake

[timber lance]

for some reason i was booted and locked from joining every voice chat?

[past copper]

He never fought. His drop pod landed, but somehow it crashed and damaged Bastion in the process

Bastion never saw any action once because of this

[peak escarp]

take it up with modmail

[fallow mantle]

Where does it say this, please? The OW site and the OW fandom wiki (and his short) imply he partook in the fighting.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes/bastion/

One unique Bastion unit, severely damaged in the final battles of the war, was left forgotten for over a decade. He lay dormant, exposed to the elements and rusting while nature slowly reclaimed him.

https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Bastion#Story

Once a frontline combatant in the devastating Omnic Crisis, Bastion has all but lost its combat programming and now explores its surroundings, fascinated by the world and its inhabitants.

Bastion was programmed with the mission to attack Stuttgart alongside many other Bastion units, but it was severely damaged during the fight.

It's been years since I read Bastion's comic, so I don't recall any of the dialogue from that, really.

[past copper]

First of all, the fandom wiki is not reliable. Second, the stuff written by Blizzrd clearly weren’t apart of the teams who made The Last Bastion or the ones who made Overwatch Genesis

Because I’m looking at this from a logical perspective. Bastion units were highly expandable war machines. Anubis would not go out of its way to make them retreat from battle if it can just make and send more. Being a bastion under Anubis was basically kill or be killed for victory

That being said, Anubis basically built and boxed up bastions in drop pods and loaded them onto ships to send them into battle. As we see in The Last Bastion, Bastion was still in the remains of its drop pod before being accidentally reactivated. Which shows it never saw any combat before then

[peak escarp]

you can see the remnants of Bastion's drop pod around him in The Last Bastion

"severely damaged in the final battles of the war" just means that he was damaged when he was dropped for the siege on Stuttgart

[fallow mantle]

The wiki, whilst not a source, is a compilation of sources for easy reading.

However - Bastion was 'reactivated'. Reactivate = restore (something) to a state of activity; bring back into action. This means that Bastion likely did see some conflict.

I do not have photo perms, but this comes from in-game:

Once a frontline combatant in the Omnic Crisis, this curious Bastion unit now explores the world, fascinated by nature but wary of a fearful humanity.

Further, the part about Bastion being injured:

Damaged in one of the battles of the Omnic Crisis, this lone Bastion unit was reactivated in the Black Forest near Eichenwalde years later.

I am aware of the drop-pod - however, it would've made far more sense for it to say that Bastion was "Damaged in its drop pod before one of the battles of the Omnic Crisis [...]" if that was the case.

The phrasing implies, though, that Bastion was in fact injured in a battle. Otherwise it would, or should, specify.

[past copper]

I don’t know what to tell you. The Last Bastion, which is solid canon, contradicts this bio page, which was only recently written in the way it is now btw back in 2020

So either the animated short is wrong or the person who wrote the bio is wrong

Given Bastion had to look into a destroyed bastion unit’s memory bank shows it didn’t know what happened during the battle. And given omnics remember what happened during the Crisis, while Bastion doesn’t is solid proof that it was built, boxed up, and loaded into the ship before the drop pod was launched, but crashed upon impact. Preventing Bastion from seeing any combat

I rest my case your honor

[fallow mantle]

The bits from in-game were written back when they added the lore tidbits to hero gallery back in like... I don't remember, 2017 or 18. But it specifies that Bastion was once a front line combatant. This Bastion was. Doesn't have to be in Stuttgart.

Maybe Bastion's memory banks were damaged when it got damaged. It didn't see THAT battle. Bastion was damaged during one of the final battles.

[past copper]

The Last Bastion was released in 2016. So that info in hero gallery was written a year later proves very little when people have seen the canon from the animated short. Writers get info wrong

Idk what to tell you, but the writers can get their own info on characters wrong. Just look at Kiriko. Still can’t get her age right after this whole time

[peak escarp]

don't start that

maybe Bastion was deployed in other battles before the attack on Stuttgart

we don't know anything about Bastion's past besides what was shown in The Last Bastion

[fallow mantle]

The Last Bastion wasn't the first lore drop for Bastion. There are sources from 2015 and 2016 respectively which say the same thing - that Bastion was damaged in a battle. I have endured an hour's mute, so I can only provide the names of the sources rather than the links deemed spam -

Overwatch: Bastion Overview & Introduction! (Abilities & Lore) - YouTube - 4th August 2015

• a year before The Last Bastion's release:

Bastion robots were originally made by humans to keep the peace in the world. However, during the Omnic Crisis the robots were turned against their human makers and they formed the bulk of the Omnic's rebel army. Bastion was damaged and started to lay dormant. He became overgrown with vines and roots and nested upon by small animals. He became a loving robot who cares for nature. At last however, Bastion's programming kicks in and he started to explore the world, realizing what the world has become.

And -

Getting to know your Overwatch Heroes: Bastion - 20th April 2016

Sst Laboratories Siege Automaton E54, “BASTION", was severely damaged during the final days of the war, and was left to rust for decades, with vines and plants growing over it, until one day it unexpectedly reactivated.

There's also a video from July 2015 - Overwatch Gameplay - Bastion (Abilities & Lore), which details his lore, but I'm mobile and unable to watch at the time. But the two above sources confirm that the piece I provided earlier, which is also featured in game, to be what Blizzard have always spouted.

Alas, bedtime. Goodnight!

[vital steppe]

? It still doesn’t say anything about the damage being in an actual fight.

“Was severely damaged during the final days of the war” checks out considering where his cinematic starts off

“Bastion was damaged and started to lay dormant.”

Also accurate to what his cinematic showed

[fallow mantle]

I don't know why it's so hard for people to recognise that Bastion was a frontline combatant. This conversation is going in circles - the parts in my comment above are supplementary to say that what Blizzard wrote is what Blizzard wrote and what is canon. The Last Bastion is canon to what they wrote.

PERHAPS Bastion was returning to his drop-pod. Perhaps Bastion was dropped to go to Eichenwalde. Balderich von Adler features in The Last Bastion, and he died during the Battle of Eichenwalde - which took place very early in the war. Bastion was damaged during one of the final battles of the war. Does this mean that Honour and Glory isn't canon? No. The drop pods fell to the east of Eichenwalde - we see Bastion in the Black Forest, between Eichenwalde and Stuttgart. Yes, there's a drop pod. Bastion was damaged in one of the final battles, yet Eichenwalde was very early in the war. Bastion's lore has always been that he was a frontline combatant in the Crisis, damaged during one of the final battles:

The video I mentioned - Overwatch Gameplay - Bastion (Abilities & Lore), from July 2015, includes this whole part here, where it mentions Bastion was 'severely damaged in the final battles of the war'. This is word for word what's been spouted in the lore since...well. 2015. This is irrefutable. Lore evolves, but this lore has always been embedded in Bastion's character.

This part of Bastion's bio has been reiterated in-game. You can check it out on the Overgrown skin, and on Bastion's hero page. This is canon. This is part of Bastion's character.

Further - it says Bastion was a frontline combatant in the Omnic Crisis. That part is quite clear.

Stuttgart/Eichenwalde were early in the war. Bastion, though, was damaged in one of the final battles. We don't know why he was in the Black Forest, or by a drop pod. Maybe Bastion tried to heal or return or something. Don't know. But if Bastion was actually damaged during the drop pod descent, that would've been written somewhere, rather than what was written - damaged during a battle.

Eichenwalde/Stuttgart were early in the war - Balderich died, and we see Balderich in The Last Bastion. Evidently, this wasn't when Bastion was damaged, as this part was early in the war.

Maybe Anubis tried to send another lot of Bastion units into Germany during the final part of the war. Maybe this is what Bastion was a part of. Who knows.

Speculative - as is the theory he was damaged in the drop pod.

[peak escarp]

consider this: Bastion was a front-line combatant in many battles before his failed deployment in the Black Forest

the siege of Eichenwalde and the attack on Stuttgart are probably not part of the same deployment

[fallow mantle]

No, but they took place early in the war - and Bastion was damaged during one of the final battles. That is what I am trying to reiterate. I agree that Bastion partook in other battles. I am unsure why people are unable to realise that part.

[peak escarp]

yes

the Eichenwalde deployment was at the beginning of the crisis
the Stuttgart deployment was at the end of the crisis

easy answer

[fallow mantle]

Balderich was in the field around Stuttgart.

But, anyway. Bastion took part in the Omnic Crisis. Job done. Thanks all! 👍

[desert dove]

Does Kiriko know genji’s alive lore wise?

[brisk moon]

Who’s the smartest one is Overwatch? Is it Sigma or Winston?

Or Moira maybe

[desert dove]

In terms of raw intelligence I think it’d go to sigma

[grand wedge]

She probably think he is dead, but since she reunited with Hanzo and Hanzo knows, she may know at some point

[patent trench]

Who is the most redeemable character in Talon?

[tranquil orbit]

Probably sigma atm cos he hasnt rly done anything

[acoustic oasis]

Hi just wondering when are trio getting cancelled from solo queue matches?

[sour isle]

Sigma

[turbid minnow]

Sigma then Sombra

[dense nebula]

I swear if any of y’all say Widow

[desert dove]

Sigma, he was a pretty normal moraled person before he went kinda crazy. He even knew about Winston and met him on the moon. The reason why he’s with talon, is because he thinks that they “rescued” him. The only reason they did was because they wanted to take advantage of that. The only reason sigma is with talon is because he thinks they actually care about him and only to some extent (Sombra, and Moira to some affect), actually do.

[desert dove]

The only reason why she’s evil is cause of all the experimentation done to her. So I mean, she herself, Amélie Lacroix, is while her assassin self, after she was experimented on, widowmaker, is not

[tranquil orbit]

The issue is tho is that is there even any amelie left

Mercy seems to think so but i reckon not everyone would see that the same way

[dense nebula]

Widow legit came back to Talon because it’s the only place where she could feel alive (ie, when she kills people)

[tranquil orbit]

Yh but i can see someone reasoning that we should treat her as almost an entirely diff person

[peak escarp]

she has changed permanently as a person, there's no fixing her

[desert dove]

I mean if mercy seems to think that maybe there is, there’s a possibility

[peak escarp]

Mercy doesn't know everything

she's a medical doctor, not a psychologist

[tranquil orbit]

I think it's a bit too soon to say that for sure

I reckon it's at best ambiguous and quite unlikely

[spare fox]

I took it more as in Angela knew Amelie well enough to say that rather than from a medical/psychologist opinion

[bronze hedge]

widow changed permanently but she still has humanity left

shes not amelie anymore. but she is still human

her bringing roses to her husbands grave

[peak escarp]

Angela also doesn't know that it was Amelie's choice

to go back to Talon, at least

whether that choice was influenced by Talon's conditioning...

[tranquil orbit]

Almost certainly was imo

Call it stockholm syndrome or whatever but someone who went through that amount of torture doesnt come out being able to make the same decisions

[desert dove]

If Winston could recruit any of the heroes that aren’t in overwatch already who would it be

[peak escarp]

Lifeweaver would be a good fit for Overwatch

[green pike]

can sb tell me if they're wearing a skirt or very wide trousers?
https://images.blz-contentstack.com/v3/assets/blt2477dcaf4ebd440c/blt0df31a2b44c77c9a/63880e31a86e5310c692c163/kiriko-00.jpg

its kiriko n genji n hanzo young pic where they're training with sticks

if the link is sus

[peak escarp]

it's wide trousers

[green pike]

do japanese wear long skirt?

men

[peak escarp]

like this

they're traditional wide pleated trousers called hakama

often still used in martial arts like kendo

[spare fox]

Back to Widowmaker/Amelie, I believe there is one more "piece of the puzzle" that we haven't got yet

Something along the lines of something changing in their relationship - like that level

[desert dove]

Care to elaborate a bit on that?

[tranquil orbit]

tbh i reckon they could make an entire story arc out of it let alone just 1 piece of the puzzle

[peak escarp]

I don't know what you mean by "piece of the puzzle"

[tranquil orbit]

i assume spooky means like something like a scene that shows more directly what the true relationship is between widowmaker and amelie

and if we should look at them as separate entities or not

[peak escarp]

they're not separate

[tranquil orbit]

ok from the most literal pov sure

but it's impossible to deny we've been dropped hints

[peak escarp]

like what

[tranquil orbit]

and even if they are indeed not separate theres story potential there

[tranquil orbit]

• lines like mercy talking abt how there might be something still in there

• was the lily on gerard's grave yours?

theres a few more but those 2 i remember off the top of my head

[peak escarp]

the mercy line is the only thing, and that's stretching it

[tranquil orbit]

i just see it as a potential hint

[peak escarp]

the lily line is Widowmaker talking to Soldier

[tranquil orbit]

what rly matters is that theres some shadow of the person she used to be lurking around (or so a few characters might believe)

i for one would love to see how some characters like tracer who have full contempt for widow might react to this

[peak escarp]

    Soldier: 76: You know we were close.
    Widowmaker: Not close enough to know he preferred roses.```

[tranquil orbit]

yh once again it's a hint at who she used to be still lurking around a bit

[peak escarp]

how

her memories aren't erased

she would still remember that Gerard preferred roses

[tranquil orbit]

no but she brings up quite a vulnerable emotional memory despite her alleged emotionless state

why even write this at all if not to suggest her former self?

[scenic parcel]

She was at his grave for Christmas in one of the comics too

[tranquil orbit]

do u see where im coming from

[tranquil orbit]

true

[peak escarp]

it shows that Amelie and Widowmaker are the same person

[tranquil orbit]

idk i still think we need to stay open minded abt the possibility that part of her old self might be repressed somewhere

for now she's undoubtedly widowmaker

but ive made my case for these hints

[peak escarp]

you make it sound like Amelie is a suppressed personality or something, which there has been no hint of

[tranquil orbit]

i didnt mean alternate personality in the multiple personality disorder sense - moreso just the person she used to be

as in the psychological repression of what talon did to her start to wear off

or someone could potentially help her

[spare fox]

I mean basically what IUTE is saying

What we know:
Amelie very much loved Gerard
Gerard was a high rank in OW
Amelie was kidnapped by Talon
She returns or gets returned to Gerard
She kills Gerard and willingly goes back to Talon

[peak escarp]

it's been hinted at for a while that her conditioning is slipping, or isn't as effective as it used to be

[tranquil orbit]

yes i think you're starting to get my pov now

[spare fox]

There's a couple gaps in the story that make sense on paper but don't sound right as a whole

[tranquil orbit]

i wonder if there is a scenario where OW capture widow and mercy tries to do a recovery of sorts

and how ppl in the organisation might react to this (esp tracer, who has the most history w her)

[spare fox]

I think it'd only work story-wise if Widow goes willingly...

[tranquil orbit]

i think a lot of it comes down to the word "willingly" it does a lot of heavy lifting here 😭

[peak escarp]

I don't think she's redeemable

[tranquil orbit]

never said redeemable

or maybe mercy thinks she is and tracer is opposed to it

[peak escarp]

even if Overwatch did "rescue" her, they'd never accept her back

[tranquil orbit]

it would be an interesting point of conflict imo

[peak escarp]

she'd just end up in prison

[tranquil orbit]

true but mercy might offer the chance to try and recuperate her to at least restore her mental wellbeing

after all it's v much in her personality to do so

even if they send her to prison after

[peak escarp]

Mercy would have to turn off the part of her brain that gets joy from killing

[spare fox]

I don't think Widow will be redeemed either, I don't think we'll see Widow change

[scenic parcel]

If her conditioning does slip and then she tries to find overwatch that could be cool

[peak escarp]

why would she?

Overwatch won't let her kill

[tranquil orbit]

this is another potential ending i see: mercy tries to recuperate her causing a rift between her and say tracer -> it ultimately fails and the situation rly affects mercy

[scenic parcel]

For mental recovery

[peak escarp]

I don't think she wants mental recovery

she probably thinks there's no going back

[spare fox]

What I think we'll learn is more about Gerard that makes us understand Widow better

[peak escarp]

that's why she went to Talon rather than try to explain things with Overwatch

[tranquil orbit]

also defo looking out for this

tbh im not sure if we know enough to say whether she even has proper free will in this situation

but as ive said before w the stockholm syndrome (altho this would be much more extreme i imagine)

sometimes even if she doesnt want mental recovery at what point does someone idealistic like mercy try to step in?

[peak escarp]

With few other options left, Amélie returned to Talon, chasing the high that had both thrilled and terrified her.

[tranquil orbit]

these things i wonder abt

[spare fox]

I don't want to say Gerard was abusive or cheating, I really think that would be too cliche
My money is more that Gerard "cheated on" Amelie with his OW work, or something along those lines

[tranquil orbit]

this doesnt necessarily discount the fact that the torture they did to her impacted this decision a lot

[peak escarp]

true

[scenic parcel]

I'd love to see how zenyattas teachings would feel about this situation tho

[tranquil orbit]

zen probably would see her as redeemable i imagine

[peak escarp]

I'm just saying she didn't feel like going to Overwatch was an option

[scenic parcel]

In universe he'd probably look at redemption

[tranquil orbit]

true thats why i reckon it'd be a capture situation

while they hold her in prison mercy tries to offer recovery

[peak escarp]

also don't bring up stockholm syndrome

that's not a real thing

[tranquil orbit]

it's not a real psychological diagnosis and it defo doesnt apply here

[spare fox]

Ok it's not s real thing in real life but OW is sci-fi fantasy

[tranquil orbit]

but im using the term to describe how sometimes abused ppl might not understand their own condition

and it absolutely is a real thing that abused ppl can feel positive feelings towards abusers

even if stockholm syndrome as a diagnosis isnt a proper scientific term

[spare fox]

More as a literary or character structure device

[peak escarp]

I still hate it

learning about the origin of that term, it's just ick

[tranquil orbit]

even in real life as well - however maybe the term trauma bonding might be something u prefer?

[tranquil orbit]

nah i totally understand i just brought it up because it's something more generally used

even if it isnt scientifically proper

when i say trauma bonding ppl often times dont know what that means because the term is too ambigious i feel

[scenic parcel]

What was the conspiracy thing that sombra is working towards since her origin story

[peak escarp]

Widowmaker doesn't seem to have any positive feelings towards Talon though

[tranquil orbit]

she has positive feelings towards the kills that talon facilitate tho

[peak escarp]

Talon was just the easiest way to fulfill that need

[tranquil orbit]

yh but they also were responsible for the torture that made her "realise" that need

hence the trauma bond

[tranquil orbit]

tbh we still dont rly know much abt it but apparently it mightve had some form of responsibility in the downfall of OW (cant say im a massive fan of the premise, but I reckon she's using jack)

or at least thats what sombra told jack in their most recent short story

atm it's been visualised as an eye w 3 dots on either side - sort of an all-knowing entity that managed to find sombra's identity

"I'll find out who really runs the world. I'll find out their weakness and how to exploit them. And when I do, I'll be the one pulling the strings."

chills to this day 😭

this is the full map of what we know so far and I'd say a couple things stand out

1. who is that mysterious figure that connects the conspiracy to reinhardt in the top right? Hivemind perhaps? She was the one who led to his forced retirement

2. what did balderich have to do with lumerico?

[peak escarp]

Balderich?

that's Guillermo Portero

[tranquil orbit]

oh is it acc

i mistook the picture

[peak escarp]

he's the CEO of Lumerico and former president of Mexico

also a hero of the crisis

[tranquil orbit]

see that makes a lot more sense

u can see my confusion tho 😭

[peak escarp]

I can see the similarity though

[tranquil orbit]

yhhh i remember this dude

from the zarya comic

he got done for corruption tho by sombra and has it out for her

[peak escarp]

fun fact: Guillermo Portero was the first character in Overwatch to be revealed as queer - one of the emails leaked through the Sombra ARG confirmed that he has a partner named Miguel

[tranquil orbit]

wait even before tracer?

[peak escarp]

yep

[tranquil orbit]

wow

[peak escarp]

Sombra ARG was summer of 2016, Tracer's reveal was in the Reflections comic during Christmas 2016

[desert dove]

Think that the three dotted eye has anything to do with the iris?

[tranquil orbit]

tbh i kinda doubt it

the iris is more of a conceptual, spiritual essence

not rly something thatd be connected i dont think

[spare fox]

imo, I think it does - it's actually 6 dots and if you look ALL around OW, especially anything to do with Omnics and sentience but not exclusively

there's a recurrance of the number 6 and hexagons

[tranquil orbit]

could be but tbh i think it's pure coincidence

[spare fox]

a couple of them might be coincidence sure but ALL of them aren't

[tranquil orbit]

like the iris is basically enlightenment why would it have anything to do a conspiracy running the world?

[tranquil orbit]

idk like hexagons are kinda common 😭

theyre a cool shape

just ask civ players

[spare fox]

yes but the recurrence of them so much

[tranquil orbit]

i kiiiinda see where youre coming from but i feel like for me to be convinced i'd need to see a more direct link

[spare fox]

well that's the thing you're not going to see a direct link until they reveal it

it's a clue or an allusion

[tranquil orbit]

nah but a lot of number 6s isnt strong enough as a hint for me

[spare fox]

a motif

[tranquil orbit]

like there's no logic behind it

[desert dove]

There’s a lot of believers who would do close to anything of the iris’ teachings no?

[tranquil orbit]

wait sorry wdym by this

[spare fox]

the iris didn't really teach it's not like jesus it's more like a source

[desert dove]

I don’t think that the iris is “secretly evil” or anything like that. I just think that the fact that it’s there could mean that the plan has accounted for Tekhartha Mondattas assassination

[pine epoch]

Playing tracer with 2000 ping is the lore accurate experience?

[spare fox]

!!loreonly

[twilit nacelle]

This channel is for serious discussion strictly related to the lore of Overwatch. Shitposting will result in a loss of access.

[smoky tendon]

you tell 'em, spookycakes

[copper olive]

I am gonna steal this joke

[pine epoch]

ok 💔

[worthy rose]

Question nerds who’s the strongest overwatch character lorewiseb

[shrewd thunder]

Probably Zarya, Mauga Doomfist that would be my guesses

[crystal rock]

doom,mauga,zar

doom and mauga are equal because every time they dual it ends up in a draw

zar bc shes one othe the strongest heavylifters

[merry token]

Winston is a pretty big contender

There’s already messages about this in the channel if you search up what you asked

[worthy rose]

Damn wth

Ain’t sigma like meant to be up there

Cuz gravity stuff

[novel mauve]

he's insane

he cant use it to its fullest potential

[rare trail]

winston and orisa are the strongest based off like "feats" but with potential in mind symmetra lifeweaver and sigma could be very powerful as well

doomfist was beaten by winston in his origin video and by orisa in her novel hero of numbani

[past copper]

We keep coming to this question. It legit pops up every week and we keep coming to the same conclusion. Sigma is the strongest enough said

[rare trail]

i think the answer is a lot more complicated than "sigma"

[past copper]

Thank and good night. Don’t forget to tip your server

[rare trail]

most we've seen of his powers is like playing with spheres

[visual hearth]

was there a lore reason to ana not hitting headshots anymore i forget

[rare trail]

he hasnt done much we dont really know how much he could do so you cant really say hes the stronges

[past copper]

A miniature black hole would be enough to destroy the Earth. What Sigma makes are bigger then that.

[visual hearth]

bc for the mirrorwatch event she got to hit headshots and she and widow switched on who hesitated for the eye shot

[rare trail]

sigma hasnt been shown to personally make black holes

[worthy rose]

Won’t lie they need to make some sort of tv show would be fire

[visual hearth]

if only

[worthy rose]

Gotta believe

[rare trail]

iirc she fires like darts that inject stuff so a headshot doesnt matter a ton in lore

[past copper]

That’s because the reality is this. If you saw him use a black hole on someone, what do you think the outcome will be?

[rare trail]

what

thats like

[worthy rose]

Doesn’t symmetra like bend light

Or use light a way

*in a way

[rare trail]

thats like not an argument like

[visual hearth]

hmm ok i guess i mustve read a headcanon years ago and took it for granted thanks

[past copper]

It won’t be pretty. It would make what happens in The Boys look tame

[rare trail]

it hasnt been shown in lore there isnt a reason to think he can do taht

[merry token]

She just uses darts in-game instead of actual bullets

Yeah, def more of a gameplay > lore thing

[rare trail]

i believe its in old soldiers?

[worthy rose]

Doesn’t sigmas black hole only absorb projectiles tho

Not people

[visual hearth]

yeah makes sense i think i kinda remember now

[worthy rose]

Unless he can do that

[rare trail]

in game abilities arent always canon

[worthy rose]

Which would be busted

[worthy rose]

Ah mb I’m new to this only watched some stuff

[visual hearth]

still i believe she was the best sniper and as the best sniper she was likely hitting headshots like widow but later on she swapped to darts to be less lethal or something

[past copper]

My point is this. Sigma is kept under lock n key while Talon keeps from doing anything that could provoke him, bc really… if he went on a murderous rampage… WTF could they actually do to stop him? That’s the only thing they can do

Keep him happy and docile and NOT piss Sigma off

[worthy rose]

I mean like would sigma solo all of talon

[visual hearth]

sigma is def the strongest lore wise isnt he

[rare trail]

not definitely

[visual hearth]

who can stop gravity

[rare trail]

we've never seen the extent of his powers

[visual hearth]

oh

[worthy rose]

He still has some stamina his tank would probably run out

[visual hearth]

but the potential can be there?

[rare trail]

the most hes done is in code of violence where he like floated a few spheres we dont know how much he could do

[past copper]

Nothing can fight against gravity and if he can create black holes at will, legit nothing could stop him

[worthy rose]

Yeah but this is all of talon

Armies of soldiers

He will most likely be tired

[visual hearth]

i like sigma bc his voicelines about gravity etc remind me of chuuya nakahara (the anime character not the actual author) and that dude's like the strongest person in his series

[worthy rose]

Taking an entire military group in hq on a rampage would def lead to him getting tired eventually

[past copper]

If holds out black holes around him, legit nothing will touch him. The gravitational pull they give off would stop anything from coming near him

Hell, he could potentially raze a city to the ground or worse

[worthy rose]

I don’t think he can do that rlly

An entire city ?

[visual hearth]

and since that dude's the strongest with gravity manipulation it makes me assume sigma's also one of the strongest in the ow franchise too

[worthy rose]

Tbh gonna have to wait for more feats on the guy

[past copper]

Don’t underestimate the power of a black hole. No other force in the universe is stronger

[worthy rose]

Yeah but the size of it matters

[visual hearth]

could he stop the black holes though

if he made them

[worthy rose]

We don’t know how big he can make it and how long he can withstand yk

Maintaining a black hole

It will drain him of energy

[past copper]

Greatly depends how much control he really has. Which is actually more terrifying then him having control

[visual hearth]

or are we gonna forsake a lil reality and assume he can stop the black holes at will too

[rare trail]

we dont know if he can even make one unassisted at all

[worthy rose]

Wait r there comics for this or

I acc wanna see it

[rare trail]

the only time hes made one was with equipment and for a fraction of a second

[visual hearth]

and then he passed out afterwards right

[past copper]

And now somehow has power over gravity around him. I don’t see a scientific explanation for that do you?

[worthy rose]

Btw can reaper like die or is he just immortal in a sense

[past copper]

Keep in mind, when it comes to super powers in Overwatch, Sigma and Zenyatta are really the only mysterious characters with them without a scientific explanation

[worthy rose]

Zen my goat

Need a tv show asap

[visual hearth]

who needs a scientific explanation when you have the iris

https://tenor.com/view/blizzcon23-zenyatta-ramattra-convention-activision-blizzard-gif-1573979242842304146

[rare trail]

the iris isnt like a thing you cna have

[visual hearth]

oh right i forgot no embed perms lol

[rare trail]

i dont think zen has any in lore powers

[visual hearth]

well not literally have

you dont "have" religion

if that makes sense

[past copper]

Okay. Here’s how to do that. Get a job at Blizzard, pitch the idea to the higher ups, if they agree, get them to work with Netflix or Prime and then bingo. Overwatch series

[worthy rose]

Probably spiritual powers

[visual hearth]

i probably shouldve used a different word

[worthy rose]

One issue

Blizzard higher ups r dumb

[visual hearth]

they just want money

ig the cinematics werent giving em money

[worthy rose]

I don’t get why they haven’t made a tv show

Would push the game

[past copper]

In no way did I say it would work. I just pointed out what to do

[worthy rose]

Ik

But I doubt they’d listen

“Actually fix our game? No how about ANOTHER micro transaction”

[past copper]

I do highly recommend Netflix or Prime. They come with it with original animated shows. Look at Hazbin Hotel, Invincible, Arcane and The Dragon Prince

They can easily make an Overwatch animated series

[visual hearth]

an ow series would be so fun if it focused on stuff like talon or blackwatch

[worthy rose]

Won’t lie I’d go with Netflix

[visual hearth]

i need more blackwatch i miss them

[worthy rose]

They kinda market shit better when it’s video game adaptation stuff

[visual hearth]

rialto map was so fun cass and reaper arguing while genji just wants to go home and moira doesnt wanna put up with any of them either

[past copper]

There was something years ago about Blizzard speaking with Netflix over an Overwatch anime, but idk. Probably fell through?

[visual hearth]

a shame

[past copper]

To be fair, the game was still pretty young at the time

We didn’t have the story mode or Declassified at the time

[worthy rose]

Nah anime is eh

[visual hearth]

you think they'll drop anything for juno when she releases?

[worthy rose]

Cinematic 3d shit would be better

[visual hearth]

like her connections to other characters and why she's visiting earth etc

[past copper]

They did for Mauga and more or less Venture

[visual hearth]

oh okay good

[past copper]

Honestly, I say take Genesis and Declassified and make an Overwatch series in arcs

Starting with the Omnic Crisis Arc, then the Golden Age Arc, then the Overwatch Disbandment Arc, then the Invasion Arc

They can make a solid 4 seasons out of it

[visual hearth]

ur cooking

[past copper]

Sure, Genesis covered some bases, but let’s expand on those and go into more depth on the Crisis. Show watchers just how dark and devastating the war really was when Overwatch was first formed

[raven dust]

even just making more comics and short stories would be great tbh

they need something to fill the void since they dropped pve

overwatch has so much potential as a verse but it doesn’t get the love it should from its creators 😔

[opaque tundra]

The writers absolutely care about the lore. It’s their company that doesn’t care

[scenic parcel]

They could make a pilot then leak it like ryan Reynolds did for deadpool 1 to gain traction lol

Or a fan made thing to test the waters for them to see how it is received

Obviously both have major setbacks and issues as well as being super unrealistic

[tranquil orbit]

Pilot eps are sadly a bit of a lost art in the world of streaming

They used to be a lot more common back when network tv was the main thing greenlighting shows but now not so much

[lilac nest]

guys I have a crazy theory about Sigma

[peak escarp]

uh oh

[lilac nest]

So overwatch is set somewhere between the year 2076 to 2085 which means that Sigma is around 63 to 72 years old. This means that he was actually born on the 15th of March from 2013 to 2022. Therefore he is apart of the "alpha generation" which explains why his name is Sigma and why he is mentally unstable. HOWEVER. Sigma came out on the 13 of August in 2019, however the term "Sigma" first became popular THREE YEARS AFTER. How could Blizzard have known that Sigma, which is also a very popular word in the alpha generation which means that you are very cool, would appear in the future? Coincidence? I think not. I am still trying to prove that the people at Blizzard either know the future or are time travelers

[novel mauve]

get out

[lilac nest]

its an actual theory

[twilit patrol]

We don’t know when Overwatch 2 sets

[peak escarp]

sigma is also a letter in the Greek alphabet

also that

we don't know what year OW2 is set in

[lilac nest]

its set one year after ow1

[peak escarp]

my best theory is 2079

[lilac nest]

dawg

[peak escarp]

2 years after OW1

[lilac nest]

look it up

[twilit patrol]

OW1 cannot be in 2076

[lilac nest]

just search it up

[twilit patrol]

And it’s 2 years later

[lilac nest]

LOOK IT UP

[peak escarp]

there is no official source that gives the year for Overwatch

if you're trying to prove something, it's on you to provide sources

the Overwatch wiki is not a source

[twilit patrol]

We just know that Overwatch sets 60 years in the future, nothing else.

[lilac nest]

check the my dms gautier

[peak escarp]

and it's not even an exact 60 years

[lilac nest]

guys this is why overwatch is being hated on

[peak escarp]

?

[twilit patrol]

I checked your DM, it’s not reliable.

[peak escarp]

please share with the rest of class

[lilac nest]

Ok look now

I edited it

you guys really did smth

[peak escarp]

the codename "Sigma" has nothing to do with the slang term Sigma

and Sigma isn't very sigma anyway

[turbid minnow]

Sigma is also just a Greek letter

[lilac nest]

yes but do you think someone born in 2013 to 2022 knows that

its allowed to think

[peak escarp]

Sigma isn't his real name

[turbid minnow]

No but he’s quite old

[peak escarp]

he didn't get that name until after his accident, which would be some time around the 2050s, and sigma wouldn't be in use as slang anymore by that time

his real name is Siebren de Kuiper

[lilac nest]

yes but most people born from 2013 to 2022 have sigmas as their rolemodels, so it would make sense if he named himself after his role model

[lilac nest]

But hes born in 2013 to 2022

[peak escarp]

https://youtu.be/yQO9n6DwoE0?si=eYtr77pA17meWG1q

[lilac nest]

venture sucks

[peak escarp]

nobody asked

[turbid minnow]

What’s your point

I didn’t know sigma was a word before 2023

[spring fable]

Pretty sure it's a greek letter

[turbid minnow]

I know, I said this

[spring fable]

O

[turbid minnow]

But before 2023 I didn’t know that

[spring fable]

O

Gotcha

[grand wedge]

Don’t forget the dates are still speculation from the fans, there isn’t any official date for when the game is exactly set.

[lilac nest]

then you might've lived under a rock

[desert dove]

Honestly I’m just still trying to figure out the whole shimada age difference

[peak escarp]

what's there to figure out? Hanzo is 40, Genji is 37 - that's a 3 year difference

[desert dove]

The only problem I find is the picture of the shimadas and kiriko

[peak escarp]

easy answer: the artist wasn't told how old they were supposed to be, only that Kiriko was a child when she trained with the (much older) Shimada brothers

[desert dove]

I suppose so but it’s hasn’t only happened once

Most of blizzards official artwork completely throws logicality out the window

[peak escarp]

such as?

[tranquil orbit]

There was the infamous team photo that has some inconsistencies i believe

Yk the one w emre in

[peak escarp]

what inconsistencies?

besides Reinhardt being massive

[tranquil orbit]

I think mainly ppl saying that pharah and jack look too young

[peak escarp]

Pharah is 11

Jack is in his early 30s

I think

[tranquil orbit]

In this case mercy would be 16 which is kinda odd

Either one or the other

[peak escarp]

sorry

12

[tranquil orbit]

And yh jack looks younger than his early 30s

[peak escarp]

Mercy and Cassidy are 17

Jack looks fine

[tranquil orbit]

Eh kinda idk

For me he looks incredibly young for someone who's been roughed up as much as he has

[peak escarp]

he's also a Supersoldier

[tranquil orbit]

So is reyes

[peak escarp]

and?

Reyes looks about the same age

[tranquil orbit]

Not rly

Apparently jack is supposed to be 35 here

Also if mercy's voicelines are anything to go by apparently he's not aged too well

[peak escarp]

all of these men are 35 or older

many of them don't look it

[tranquil orbit]

Hollywood actors vs military during the omnic crisis 😭

[peak escarp]

how old someone looks is very subjective

[tranquil orbit]

True but actors are known for having youthful appearances because their face is quite literally how they make money

[peak escarp]

again, Jack is a Supersoldier - his genetic conditioning could make him age differently than an average person

[tranquil orbit]

My expectation is that it wouldve been the opposite

Like they age worse as they get older

[peak escarp]

this is honestly the first time I've seen someone have a problem with how old Jack looks in that drawing

[tranquil orbit]

Idk i defo heard this from other ppl discussing this thought it wasnt my original idea

And it's not like it's a massive issue either

All it goes to show is your point from earlier is that respective ages in these official artworks can sometimes not be the best sources of interpretation

[peak escarp]

then why bring it up?

[tranquil orbit]

Just thought it emphasised your point from earlier

[peak escarp]

which point?

[tranquil orbit]

In anthology works w multiple authors/artists these things often have debatable "inconsistencies" between them

[tranquil orbit]

^

[peak escarp]

it's still not drastically far off from what is expected

[tranquil orbit]

Ehhh it was defo enough for some ppl to raise the issue

I think the reason why it's brought up for kiriko a lot specifically is that i feel like everyone and their cousin has issues w her lore in some respect

Like theres abt 5 common lore qs or issues that come up and 3 of them are kiriko related 😭

[peak escarp]

people incorrectly assume she should be Genji's age

despite the lore saying she was younger

[tranquil orbit]

Whilst this is true it's also the job of the story tellers to communicate effectively

Which they clearly havent done well enough for kiriko in particular

It's one of the biggest reasons why i feel like she might acc need MORE story additions despite the fact shes already had quite a few pieces where shes included

[peak escarp]

they've communicated it plenty

[tranquil orbit]

Plenty doesnt mean well

[peak escarp]

people just dont like to read

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but also it's not a good sign when theres so many question marks over her story even after ppl have tried to immerse themselves w the lore

U see it here all the time theres so many issues that ppl ask abt for kiriko

It's not that ppl dont like to read which i admit they dont rly like they used to

But when u have recurring patterns like this i think it signals a wider problem

[peak escarp]

the media literacy of this community is the worst I've ever seen

[spare fox]

Idk why everyone gets so hung up on how heroes are supposed to look like.. they look how they look it's FICTION

[tranquil orbit]

True but u can only blame that so much when youre making lore for video games

A rule of all writing is that u need to think abt who you're writing for

[peak escarp]

I'm used to video games having a lot of lore

maybe because I play exclusively single player games

but still

[tranquil orbit]

Yes but writing for video game lore often emphasises less ambiguity and more clarity of expression

Exactly for the reasons u said

When youre dealing w a non literary medium

U expect ppl to not be the best or most patient readers

I'd also question why it appears to be her in particular above all other characters no one else has had these many issues brought up

[peak escarp]

it used to be Mercy

[tranquil orbit]

I'd assume a similarly substandard level of media literacy for something like say "The Last Bastion" short yet ppl experienced that v differently

[tranquil orbit]

Idk i think mercy is one of the most beloved characters in the cast

There's defo a lot of theory crafting w her

But idt many complain abt actual story issues?

[peak escarp]

I mean she was the one people complained about "inaccurate lore" for

her age mostly, because they thought she was much older

[tranquil orbit]

The age thing is kinda whatever

And was also subject to some theory crafting because of her medicine

Which i think some ppl apply similarly w kiriko and her fox spirit

But still i think kiriko is a bit of an anomaly when it comes to this

[peak escarp]

there was also the mistaken belief that she created Reaper, despite there being no evidence to support it

[tranquil orbit]

Yh but they later clarified that w moira

And that was like 2017 or something right

[peak escarp]

some people still believe it

or think it was a retcon

[worthy rose]

Why is everyone so mean to junkrat

He asked why he had a rash and she told him to bandage his mouth :(

[turbid minnow]

Professional Mercy hater because of that

[fallow mantle]

Yeah, it sucks. She's very mean-spirited towards him, when he has a genuine medical concern.

[desert dove]

Mercy is roughly around 30 but I think it’s theorized that she doesn’t seem as old as a side affect of Valkyrie

[peak escarp]

people thought she was Ana's age and that she fought in the omnic crisis

because of this art

which isn't even from the omnic crisis

Mercy is 39, same age as Cassidy

[desert dove]

Correct

And so is pharah

[peak escarp]

Pharah is 34

[desert dove]

I meant that she’s more or less around that age group sorry I mistyped

[peak escarp]

yeah she's in that age group

[desert dove]

That’s why this picture doesn’t seem to make much sense

[peak escarp]

there's the same age difference between 12 and 17 as there is between 34 and 39

both are 5 years apart

[turbid minnow]

She defo ages slower

Or they changed the age for other reasons

[peak escarp]

they didn't change the age

[fallow mantle]

I seem to remember one of the old OW lore team said that they wished they made Jack and Ana older for this picture or the one ft. Emre. I think it's this one though

[peak escarp]

it was the medals picture

[fallow mantle]

Yeah

[peak escarp]

they made that before the ages were settled on, so it was made without thinking about it

[turbid minnow]

Maybe she just moisturises a lot

[peak escarp]

I made a fixed version where Ana has grey hair and Jack has less hair

[fallow mantle]

💀 lmao

[peak escarp]

I think Mercy looks her age

[desert dove]

Definitely not

[turbid minnow]

She looks her age

[peak escarp]

women in their late 30s don't look significantly older than women in their late 20s

[turbid minnow]

But I don’t think her age is right

[peak escarp]

why?

[scenic parcel]

Do you think we will ever see anything from Emre again?

[peak escarp]

probably

everyone else from that group was important

[tranquil orbit]

There was a recent line that mentions him u can get w sojourn on havana

Im almost certain he'll be added soon

My guess is as a support

I wonder why he refused the recall despite his retirement tho theres some good potential there

[spare fox]

I'm interested to see why too because everyone has their unique reasons

they're really good about giving them all diverse stories with various different kinds of potential

there's that potential he's that weird freak-like tank hero but only just because of the spiky mohawk hair

season 14 tank that is, the one we only have the stylized teased icon for

[spare fox]

right and I know it's one of the "streamer mode" names but I have been seeing a bunch of "Emremain"s in game lol

[sullen girder]

I’ll be honest, I kinda want to see one of them in a suit skin, other than soldier

[spare fox]

suit like a formal suit?

or like military formals?

[sullen girder]

I guess either one really.

[spare fox]

I agree I'd love more formal skins I'm a sucker for them

[past copper]

Give Cassidy a John Wick skin

So… who’s getting skins?

Honestly drawing a blank on who could be getting skins from this collab

[spare fox]

that's a satire account

Potnoodle is a satire of Cavalry

[past copper]

Ah. Well that’s fine. Not a fan of FNAF anyway

Not a horror nut. Although, I still need to watch the movie

[tranquil orbit]

If they do this im acc gonna lose it and not in a good way

I need my turkish mohawk man in the flesh 😭

[tranquil orbit]

Yh the fact that they acknowledged it makes me even more certain he'll be in at least the next 5 heroes

[tranquil orbit]

Normally I'm in support of them doing fewer "dude w gun" character designs in favour of the more wacky ones like reaper, moira, ball or more omnics

BUT EMRE IS THE EXCEPTION

[spare fox]

the only thing "supporting" it is the mohawk which is a little bit of stretch but imo (and I don't have my copy of Declassified rn so I can't check) there's also the fact that from the little we know about Emre he seems a little wild and uses explosives

so they might make him a cyborg tank but the "good guy" equivalent of Junkrat kinda but more tanky-cyborg? idk

like I said, big stretch but can't be ruled out yet and I'm not married to the idea

[tranquil orbit]

Wait explosives?

From what i understood he was likely a medic

They sent him w ana torb and rein in istanbul and ana didnt have her healing rifle apparently

[spare fox]

You are probably right, all I remember was an illustration in Declassified where he's covering his ears and holding what iirc could be a detonator but I could be totally misremembering

[tranquil orbit]

I'll do a deeper dive later to find all the details 🫡

Im almost certainly forgetting details asw

[desert dove]

What is talons overall goal?

[spare fox]

Depends on who you ask and why

Doomfist the current leader wants to create conflict like a new omnic crisis in order to strengthen humanity

He believes humanity only pushes forward in wartime and during conflict

[desert dove]

So are they just a collection of people that ocasionally help each other do what they want?

[spring fable]

Yeah. Everyone has seperate goals and because of that they need eachother so they basically said '#team?'

[peak escarp]

they're all just using each other and Talon's resources to push their own agendas

not reallly organized at all

[slow forge]

I lowkey wanna see ramattra win

[hoary pond]

I mean

Technically

It’d be theoretically racist if you didn’t

He litterally just wants to free omnics from slavery and discrimination

He’s just mean about it

[turbid minnow]

Real

[turbid minnow]

Anti Hero moment

[slow forge]

Overwatch is kinda misunderstanding ramattras goals

[tranquil orbit]

His goal is one thing but his execution of it is another

Idt anyone disagrees that his agenda is justified but when he starts killing innocents and even subjugating omnics so they become docile w the headpieces things

Idk how theres any misunderstanding there 💀

[hoary pond]

It’s a war

Casualties are to be expected

Weather it be physical or mental.

To justify what is right you sometimes have to do wrong

If ramattra did not command this war, omnics would remain oppressed and enslaved to human kind. Even orisa is feared by a lot of people. Bastion too.

While his methods are unorthodox ramattra is obtaining piece and equality for his omit brothers and sisters

And megatron

[tranquil orbit]

The alternative was what mondatta was doing ... progress was being made towards peaceful resolution

[tranquil orbit]

Unorthodox only justifies his war but it doesnt justify the whole headpiece thing

Serious q marks need to be raised when in order to field a war to "save omnics" u also need to pacify them into a vegetative state 😭

It's a classic professor x vs magneto problem but theres a reason why magneto is almost always an undeniable villain despite his motivations

[desert yacht]

I wonder if the helmets are something like a device that can upload their consciousness

might not even be possible but if it was that would be a solution to ramattra’s fear that omnics are going to die off after one generation

[hoary pond]

the head pieces subdue their emotional and rational response programs, best way to fight a war is to make sure your soldiers cant or wont try to think about it

plus even ramattra is a puppet to the anubis thing

more so a shell but still

[desert yacht]

there’s an interaction somewhere where somebody bites at ram for claiming to try to fight for omnics by forcibly giving them helmets that force them into a vegetative state

and he retorts by saying something about humans trying to apply their own logic to omnic issues or smth

only heard it once so I don’t remember it

[hoary pond]

in another character interaction, spacifically with orisa, ramatra apologizes, so there is some compassion

he also tells phara she should have destroyed anubis. he doent like serving people,either

he seems to only be friendly to omnics, ball, phara and sombra

[tranquil orbit]

The voiceline interactions he has w human characters dont show that he's friendly w them it's just a matter of him being able to tolerate them long enough

[tranquil orbit]

Also yes this is the line i believe

Lemme try find it in full

"I will not sacrifice my kind to abide by humanity's moral code"

Which is basically a disgusied way of saying that he doesnt trust his so called fellow omnics to not intervene ... he doesnt like a possibility where he would need to kill other omnics to achieve his goal

[desert yacht]

yeah his voice actor as usual went insane with that

[tranquil orbit]

Hence putting them in a vegetative state

The key flaws w ram's plan are as follows and a lot of them apply to magneto asw

1. he shows no regard for omnics who care deeply abt humans (weve seen human omnic relationships before)

2. it only works in the event of wiping out humanity ... in the case that any are left over they'd grow to resent omnics even more than when they started because now they have another physical justification in the form of null sector

[fallow mantle]

This made me laugh so hard. Just. Thrown on at the end there lmao

[tranquil orbit]

3. needing to subjugate your own kind to get what u want is probably a sign that your ideology might need some rethinking

Maybe an extra number 4 for teaming up with talon, assuming he still has any feelings left for mondatta

[desert yacht]

is this even true he actively expresses hatred for Anubis

was that in some short story or smth

[tranquil orbit]

Nah ram's not a puppet

He was

But he gained consciousness after the battle of new york

He had an awakening

[opaque tundra]

It’s also important to remember that Ramattra felt massive guilt for leading omnics to their death when he was under the control of Anubis. He’s hypocritical in the fact that he doesn’t like control but is actively choosing to control others to save them. His character is really interesting and complicated and I love how unpredictable it makes him

[slow forge]

Was peace really being made though? I mean think abt it the process was extremely long

Plus mondatta literally got killed by widowmaker while trying to give a speech

To encourage equality between omnics and humans

But at the same time we can't say widowmaker did it out of a personal hate for omnics

It was probably just business

[tranquil orbit]

It's a long process but because of the flaws i listed It's but far the better alternative

[slow forge]

Tbh, ramattra reminds me of Malcom X

But if he was js a terrorist rlly

[tranquil orbit]

It's because ram is likely based off magneto who was in turn heavily inspired by malcolm x

But the contexts behind each situation are quite different theyre not perfect allegories

It's just elements being used

[slow forge]

Knowing the damage ramattra has done, and his radicalism views

Does zenyatta know anything abt it?

And if he does is he dissapointed?

[peak escarp]

probably

[slow forge]

Also I kinda think that after mondattas death

That was the nail in the coffin for ramattra

[peak escarp]

Ramattra didn't like Mondatta

[slow forge]

I thought he cared abt mondatta tho

[peak escarp]

he thought Mondatta betrayed him when he denounced Null Sector after the King's Row uprising

[slow forge]

I mean mondatta isn't wrong

Null sector is somewhat fucked up

[peak escarp]

I pointed back at Mondatta because I couldn’t bear to look at him again.
“He holds himself above us. Like Anubis, Mondatta is sending our people to their deaths. He must pay for this and—”```

[slow forge]

Damn

He rlly does feel betrayed-

Couldn't even bare to look at him

[peak escarp]

we don't know his feelings on Mondatta's assassination, but he probably feels like Mondatta got what was coming to him

[slow forge]

I could see that

I have the feeling zenyatta is js gonna try to stay out of it for a min

Out of the conflict and focus on himself rlly

I'm not ready for the inevitable day zen and ram meet again tho

[opaque tundra]

Nah I think Zen is gonna try to get through to Ram because he’s like the only person on the planet capable of talking to him

His whole thing is that he helps people through connection so if he just decides “eh whatever Ram isn’t my problem” it’d feel out of character

[hoary pond]

Ram goated

[turbid minnow]

They don’t dislike each other

I’m pretty sure they still think each other as brothers

[desert dove]

They left off on good terms

[desert dove]

That’s probably why talon went to zenyatta

[opaque tundra]

Maybe. I hope we learn what’s going on with that soon

[desert dove]

I hope so. Though it doesn’t seem like we’ll get an answer any time soon

[tranquil orbit]

I have a v sneaky suspicion that the reason why ram has so many lines in the battle passes is because they were leftovers from what was once the pve

[opaque tundra]

Mmmm idk about that I think it’s just because people like Ramattra and his voice actor is crazy talented

[tranquil orbit]

True but it's rly disproportionate

To the point i feel like it cant be a coincidence

Like voicelines are already not massive money makers anyways outside of a couple of memeable and special ones and he's had A LOT

[peak escarp]

if they were leftovers from the pve they wouldn't match the battlepass theme

[tranquil orbit]

They already dont rly

Thats exactly why i think so

[fallow mantle]

I like thinkin' that Ramattra's "I am the guardian and the gateway" mimics Anubis the god

Soon as I heard it I was like "Anubis?!"

[green kiln]

I play tf2 lol

[rare trail]

ok?

[sudden saffron]

Is there any Juno lore yet or nah

[fallow mantle]

She is from Mars and her dad brought westerns which she watched and Mei is her auntie but not blood-auntie but mum-knows-her-really-well-auntie

So...not really! There isn't yet, just the stuff we know from in-game interactions and the promo stuff but no hero page

[worthy rose]

Is skibity toilet cannon in overwatch lore⁉️

[edgy parcel]

is there anyone that wnats to join a 4 team to make it 5

looking for someone to join

anyone?

[peak escarp]

does anyone actually check to see what channel they're in before posting?

this is the lore channel, not LFG

[swift notch]

looking for skibidi gyatts in ohio

[twilit patrol]

Why do people always have to be off topic ?

[turbid minnow]

Yes

Everything is I assume

Who won GOTY 2016 in the Overwatch universe

[worthy rose]

So lore wise

Is sigma the most powerful?

He’s gotta be right

[twilit patrol]

We don't know so much about Sigma abilities in the lore

[fallow mantle]

I saw a post on the reddit earlier that sigma is most powerful because: genji cannot deflect rock. dva cannot DM rock.

but...doomfist has an emote where he breaks a rock. therefore-

[worthy rose]

Interesting

[fallow mantle]

it was a joke post but it amused me

[polar garnet]

probably

but tbf kiri hanzo and genji are deadass magic

magic

that’s a whole new order

[flint rivet]

Agreed. Kiri can teleport.
I guess sigma might be? Depending on how the scaling goes but it seems more depending on situation.

[polar garnet]

yeah sigma is still probs the most powerful

like we’re never told this

but how he’s described in lore + his origin story

i have a feeling this guy can destroy the entire world if he really wanted

it’s terrifying

[unreal mica]

Sigma grew up on skibidu

That's why

[polar garnet]

plus how he doesnt even know what he’s doing makes it even scarier

[worthy rose]

Real

[shut tide]

https://www.twitch.tv/jakerz82

[desert dove]

What’s the significance of the feather in “Dragons”?

[merry token]

I don’t know the larger significance but Genji used to be called Sparrow by their father

[peak escarp]

it's the feather of a sparrow hawk

Genji's childhood nickname was sparrow

[frozen juniper]

do omnics rest in any way

or are the perpetually awake and sentient

and wouldnt that suck

what do they do

[polar garnet]

more stuff : D

sleeping is wasting 8 hours of your life per day when you could spend that trying to climb to diamond

best assumption that’s what omnics do when everyone is asleep fr

[desert dove]

Ohh that makes sense thanks

[turbid minnow]

They probably would need to charge or something

I don’t think we know what omnics run off of

Either that or they just turn off

[loud marsh]

Resilience

[pine epoch]

What is the lore connection with the new characters cuz their main lore is entirely new but there’s probably hidden connections right

Like with venture, space ranger and that type

Idk it just feels like they are making a lot of lore when usually they make a new one based off an old characters lore with a different view and expand the lore

Like junker queen and kiriko (sort of) and lifeweaver

[opaque tundra]

We’re running out of lore characters so the writers kinda have to make up new characters. They’re still tied to preexisting factions so it’s not like they’re truly popping out of nowhere

[peak escarp]

making up new characters is a writer's job

[flint rivet]

i'm happy for any lore for the new characters. here's not a ton yet..
but Juno=space ranger= the daughter of one of the scieneist Mei knew before she went frozen. (i think she was on the lunar colony after it had the gorilla/hamster revolt and takeover, surviving)

Venture= Archeolgist that works with a seperate organization (wayfare..society i think? please correct if wrong) fights Talon because Talon is taking artifacts they're supposed to be finding.there's some connection to Anubis site given their short adventure cinematic (they say that they themselves are non binary if that matters to you)

Lifeweaver=college buddies with Symettra (they were roommates!) also a wanted eco terrorist if memory serves in 22 countries.

i might be missing a few

[peak escarp]

Wayfinder Society

the only new hero with absolutely no connection to any existing heroes or factions is Illari

[polar garnet]

^

she’s awfully written imo

[frozen juniper]

She’s awfully made as well

[flint rivet]

i can't believe i forgot bout my girl illari.
she's from peru..and all her people of super advanced civlization (ala wakanda but south america) were..wiped out in a way that she..totally didn't cause.

i like her design and abilities i just wish there was more lore about her.

i thougt they wre saving it for a cenimatic but..not yet or maybe the pve stuff

mauga! he's friends with baptiste and work for talone as a merceary for hire.

[upper temple]

venture is looking for the same things as talon

thatll develop late r

idk about illari

[desert dove]

I mean most of what we know of illaris people is Legit that illari killed all of them 😭

[hushed jetty]

i feel like they are definitely setting up something for illari but god damn it is taking a long time

[vernal pagoda]

i wish we knew more about what happened to illari that made her wipe out her whole civilisation because she has so much potential

[hushed jetty]

we know she doesnt like moira and we know oasis has a presence in runasapi so the chance they have met is not 0

[vernal pagoda]

like i know it wasnt on purpose but something mustve happened that makes her different

[hushed jetty]

what she thinks is that its because she's too powerful

[vernal pagoda]

i feel like illari and venture have a chance of being taken by talon lowkey

[hushed jetty]

something about her overloading the machine maybe

[vernal pagoda]

possibly

[hushed jetty]

illari maybe. venture....... EXTREME doubt

[vernal pagoda]

if venture keeps running into talon tho

and sombra said that venture is what she needs in that comic

[hushed jetty]

i feel like thats not in a literaly way and more like venture could help get what she wants

i dont think talon would want venture specifically, theyre just looking for some artifact. venture just happened to be in the way

[worthy rose]

Guys let’s talk about lore why is widows ass so fat

[turbid minnow]

Illari no

Venture maybe

Depends if Talon could give better resources for the archeology

[hushed jetty]

talon could provide them with resources but why would venture ever agree. they know what talon is

why would the wayfinders ever agree if they have been STOLEN FROM

[vernal pagoda]

true

[hushed jetty]

illari i could see if maybe talon sees her as a potential resource, either molding her to assist them and taking advantage of her mental state orrrr just. stealing her

[vernal pagoda]

i feel like it wouldnt be venture agreeing to join talon but moreso as venture being manipulated by them in some way?

[vernal pagoda]

illari has voicelines to doom about how she doesnt think she belongs anywhere or something, and doom says that she needs to channel her violent nature or smth along those lines which makes me think of her joining talon yk?

[hushed jetty]

im unsure how they would do that really

[hushed jetty]

yeah something like that

[slow forge]

BBL's

For sure

[desert dove]

I feel like illari’s sense of justice is too much to join talon but I’m not sure

[tranquil orbit]

What sense of justice are we talking abt exactly

I get the logic that she appears to be on surface a more morally "good" character but morals are often contextual

And weve just not seen her enough in different situations to know for sure how shed act ... but what we do know is that shes emotionally quite lost and defo extremely impressionable

I reckon the first person she meets w from the main cast will have a v big impact on her

My personal guess is doomfist but i also find her lines w hanzo to be kinda cute

Hanzo mentor dynamic would be like the "good route" considering i think theyd grow off each other nicely since theyre complementary

[flint rivet]

I'd like that hanzo finding her and showing her and realizing himself that one mistake is not the end of the road.

[tranquil orbit]

Also theyre so grumpy but in a loveable kinda way i think we'd rly get some lovely dialogue out of the two of them 😭

I can picture them having some rly nice bickering as they sort of get to know each other better

[past copper]

Well now I wonder what season 12 is. New Frontiers could hint at another space themed season

But instead of the Star Wars parody the first time around, this one might be something like Overwatch in space

[tranquil orbit]

I beg it's not another space season weve had enough 💀

[blazing fulcrum]

Calling it one mistake is crazy

[tranquil orbit]

Tbf it was one mistake but a massive accident

V much a case of you're always 1 bad day away from your life falling apart

[peak escarp]

the name doesn't indicate the theme

[tranquil orbit]

But she didnt do it on purpose

[peak escarp]

we've had several that didn't match the theme, like Champions, Venture Forth, etc.

[tranquil orbit]

This is what im hoping for

And it's just a play on words

We rly dont need another space season so soon gimme the egyptians

Or the witches

Literally anything else

[peak escarp]

also there's only 2-3 seasons left in the year and we haven't gotten two of the themes Aaron listed at Blizzcon

Witches is probably the Halloween season

[tranquil orbit]

True

Yh maybe egyptian mythology

Ik it's a bit late in the summer but i always assumed it'd be around this time

[turbid minnow]

What was Champions

[flint rivet]

Season..1? I think

Greek mythology

[flint rivet]

One mistake on hanzo end. Killing his brother.
Ilarri might have been part mistake who knows.

[fallow mantle]

Champions was when they reworked comp, so Season 9

[desert dove]

It’s in the origin trailer “I will make up for what I’ve done.” But I get how that could be interpreted in many different ways

[fallow mantle]

Still wish we got Venture's origin story trailer - Ik that's still a possibility, and we got a comic and the bio page, but would be nice to have, like other characters have

[acoustic ice]

how do omnics recharge

and on that note, how would echo recharge

[turbid minnow]

What was in that battle pass

[fallow mantle]

Who even remembers. Forgettable pass lmao... But! I say that. I do remember. It was the one with the cosmic horror stuff. Moira mythic. Torbjorn cthulhu. Etc etc

[ashen scroll]

hey how did you get nordic runes as a name, I'm a Norse Mythology Nutcase and would like to type in nordic runes

[tranquil orbit]

I see making up for what shes done more as an issue of her taking responsibility

Not so much an issue if morality

Theres different ways of making up for ones mistakes/accidents is how i see it

[tranquil orbit]

That was acc one of my favs in terms of skin designs they just all happened for characters i dont rly play

Moira, illari, mei, roadhog, widow all had some rly nice lovecraftian horror designs

[fallow mantle]

The skins were awesome

[fallow mantle]

I think it was this: valhyr . com rune-converter

[worthy rose]

Is this cannon in overwatch lore⁉️

[merry mason]

That one video is her origin trailer

[tranquil orbit]

It's funny because i acc think the comic is probably a better intro to their character

They cover all the same introductory bases but add extra details which the trailer lacked

[merry mason]

And now it’s a video technically

[tranquil orbit]

It's nice to have for sure

I still think we're in need of a lot more tbh but it's something

[merry mason]

I want illari lore already

[tranquil orbit]

Sorry they left it in the vault w the sigma lore 😕

And someone forgot the key

One day tho i have faith

[past copper]

I mean, given how the story is going, suffice to say… Sigma and Illari really have no importance right now

So… really no surprise there is little lore over them

Same can be said of Venture for the most part and I’m calling it now… Juno has no to little relevance to the story too

The remains of the team just seem to be adding people with no relevance to the story going on between Overwatch, Null Sector, and Talon at the moment 🤷‍♂️ sorry to disappoint

[spare fox]

Idk as pessimistic as I tend to be, I do think that they will have their place, maybe not so important as like Sombra or Doom but there are things that stand out about Illari, Venture and Sigma

[ashen scroll]

awesome thnx!!

[merry mason]

People said the same about Dva and zarya

[merry mason]

Previous statement was reply to this

[peak escarp]

we just have to wait for the story to progress for Illari to find relevance in the story

[spare fox]

Yes and Venture we know Talon is looking for some kind of artifact
And that whatever that "eye" is was watching them as they did their research in cairo

They're doing something that's worthy of that "eye" taking interest

[tranquil orbit]

is the eye acc watching them or is it just a marking for the conspiracy

[spare fox]

And Sigma, I know it's super unpopular around here but I have theories based on his interaction with Zenyatta, how his gravity experimental accident resulted in him "hearing music" - I think he's at least a key or stepping stone in understanding the Iris or what the Awakening was

[spare fox]

We aren't sure. Honestly I believe it's just a visual cue for us as the audience to actually physically see what the conspiracy thing is

[tranquil orbit]

tbh i think for sigma the plan was for him to be used by talon as some form of super weapon

and this is why they expanded on him so little

he was kinda like an endgame sort of target for the pve

obvs theres not enough proof for that but it's just a plausible theory imo

[tranquil orbit]

yh for sure it's a visual cue ... my guess is that altho the eye marking itself isnt watching it's to show whoever is at the centre of the conspiracy has seen this event

sort of like to mark the rly important things

[spare fox]

Exactly because the writers can't really depict from the characters' perspective that they're being watched unknown to them. It's something for us the audience to notice and draw the conclusion that the same entity is doing spying/watching

[tranquil orbit]

btw what are your guesses abt who is at the centre ... single person or group of ppl or some form of AI?

not that we can rly say for sure tbh

[spare fox]

So whatever it/ they is, noticed Sombra and her extracurriculars, was a factor in the fall of OW, and watching Venture

[tranquil orbit]

tbh i think the factor in the fall of OW is a red herring

i think sombra is using jack

or it had a factor but not rly significant enough that it's worthwhile for him

[spare fox]

So my current favorite theory is that they are making a fictionalized in-universe equivalent of the "Mariana's Web"

[tranquil orbit]

i think ana's assessment that he's chasing ghosts is correct

[tranquil orbit]

im not sure im too familiar ... ik roughly that it's like mariana trench but on the dark web

but what dyu have in mind specifically

[spare fox]

It's actually an old creepy pasta conspiracy theory about an internet-turned-AI that's deeper than the dark web that has gained its own sentience, that only the elites of the elites of the world can access and utilize bc it's so powerful that ultra quantum-computing is needed to access it

[tranquil orbit]

ah i see

yh thats roughly one option i have in mind

[spare fox]

It's not a real thing obviously, but there are some interesting vids on YT about it

[tranquil orbit]

some form of ghost AI thats not available to most of the general public

[spare fox]

And the need for quantum computing and gravitational force also loops Sigma into the equation

Just my theory ofc

[tranquil orbit]

interesting

is there a possibility that during its reign of terror anubis made a secret clone of itself

[peak escarp]

unlikely

[tranquil orbit]

not necessarily a complete one but some way to fragment its intelligence in the hopes of one day putting itself back together

it's a pretty classic AI trope

thats why i bring it up

[past copper]

Sorry to disappoint, but Overwatch so far hasn’t used the classic AI trope. So no

And besides that, even if Anubis did somehow manage to do that… why wait over a decade instead of continuing the war?

[tranquil orbit]

probably because it needs time to piece itself back together

it couldve been an emergency contingency plan

having raw AI or computing power is one thing but it still needs the hardware or a "body" so to speak

[past copper]

Given how fast Anubis was in both learning/adapting and how fast it took over every Omnic on Earth all at once… I highly doubt it would need decades long to piece itself back together